I realise this review is about Ortofon cartridges, but it would be a major mistake to put down $600+ for a 2M Black without listening to an Audio Technica VM540ML or VM740ML at half the price.
Hi Rocco, Since September 2023 I also own the 2M Black Premounted and I must say I am also very satisfied with it and the contact I had with Ortofon was excellent, I ordered directly from them in Denmark. Best regards from the Netherlands.
I'd recommend the 2M Black LVB 250 which is an upgrade on the 2M Black. It has a boron cantilever. I have the LVB 250 which I upgraded from the Bronze. It sounds awesome.
I'm sure it sounds fantastic. But the increase in price is pretty damn steep. Most people don't even have turntable that expensive, even if they're vinyl enthusiasts.
I stretched my limits for the 2M Black after already having stretched for a Rega RP8. I was told by two different people at high end stereo shops that VTA adjustment was not needed because Ortofon had designed the 2M line to mate with the Rega tables. I would have to assume that’s true because the results are fantastic. I was a bit worried at first, but as the hours built up, the sound kept getting better and better and better! Fantastic cartridge!
Yeah - even Ortofon stated to me that a lot of the modern turntables and tone arms and most likely just fine. It’s when you actually get a little more exotic that you might have issues or even with cheaper tables as well. But a lot of modern tone arms are within tolerance.
Great review Rocco! I just ordered the 2M Black for the ease of switching b/w my 2M Mono with detachable headshells. Looking forward to spinning it....🙂
Would take the plunge on a premounted 2M Black but difficult to pull the trigger with that price tag during tough financial times. Good on you for creating great content and being rewarded for it. Keep up the content!
Last year I bought a Music Hall Classic TT and opted for the Ortofon Blue, I previously had the Ortofon Red on my Pioneer. I was, and still am, blown away by the difference in sound quality. Thanks for this review, I am no expert, but I like what I hear. When it's time to upgrade I'll be looking at the Orotofon Black.
VTA or Vertical Tracking Angle. People needlessly stress over this. It’s important, but not as much as you think. First off, Ortofon cartridges are the most consistent in manufacture of all the cartridge brands. Secondly, after setting your tracking force (invest in a good $15 digital gauge), set the tonearm height so it’s dead nuts parallel to the record surface. With all Ortofon’s you’ve got it right. Remember, records have different thickness, your standard 120 gram pressing being thinner than your audiophile 180 gram pressing which is itself thinner than the ultra-mega super-duper 200 gram pressings. Am I going to readjust VTA with each pressing? Hell no! Michael Fremer won’t even do that. So choose the most common record thickness in your collection and set your VTA once. Thicker/thinner turntable mats are an easy way to set VTA if your tonearm is not easily adjustable.
I def don’t re adjust for each record. I adjusted for a nice 180gram and keep it there and it’s fine for thicker or thinner vinyl. I agree that these carts are very consistent on most tables and tone arms. Thanks for watching!
One of the most informative cartridge reviews on TH-cam that I have seen. May I add something? Referring to the comparative photos of the different styli profiles in the groove you can see the elliptical stylus contacts a much smaller portion of the groove compared to the Shibata profile. The advantages are two fold: 1. A stylus, even at 1.5-2 grams tracking force in such a microscopic contact area exerts a pressure of many tons per square inch. The Shibata, with its much larger contact area than the elliptical (or spherical/conical) styli, spreads out this pressure resulting in much less groove deformation and record wear over time. 2. You can see in the same photograph that the Shibata tracks a different part of the groove than the elliptical. If the record exhibits wear from many previous playings with an elliptical stylus, the Shibata, and even the hyperelliptical, will track a fresh part of the groove resulting in a great improvement in sound with many of your worn records. Cheers!
Glad I found your video. I purchased a used @M Black cartridge as I was eager to try a MM cartridge to see if it was more compatible with my preamp (lower noise vs. MC). when I installed it, however, it sounded good, but it rode very low on the record. I was afraid I had gotten a defective unit because of its low rider appearance. I was trying to save up for a replacement stylus, but having seen your video I plan to try mounting the cartridge again. Thanks!
I still to this day look at mine and think something is wrong with it - but it sounds great. I do use the lowest recommended tracking force which is 1.5grams. These carts just ride low.
I had an OM 30 that rode very low, I could swear it was touching the vinyl. Sound quality was great. But it bothered me so I upgraded to the bronze. Never looked back.....Great review
Watching your vids with joy here in the UK. Well done sir. Inspired and now thinking I need to try the upgrade path from my pre installed Pick Pro on my Project X1. Thinking I should go to Bronze first?
The bronze is very nice - I have a full review on that one too it's very revealing and I would imagine pairs great with the Project X1. Thanks for watching!
Great video! That cart sounds amazing. Specs and measurements do tell the whole story though. Things like warm or cold sound correlates directly with the frequency response. There's nothing in audio we can hear which can't be measured. Good thing the 2M Black measures really well.
This is a really fantastic review, Rocco. I've got a Fluance RT-85 with a 2M Blue now. I've been saving up for a 2M Bronze since I watched your review on it last year. In the meantime, I've been wondering a lot about the 2M Black, and thinking that maybe I should skip the Bronze and go directly to the Black. So I very much appreciate the info in your review about probably needing a different TT due to the Black requiring a precise tracking angle adjustment. I also had no idea that Ortofon's customer service had such great advisors. So now I'm eagerly awaiting your review of your Audio Technica LP7:-) Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Thank you so much! Yeah the ATLP7 has been a lot of fun. But I still have RT85 I am deciding what to do with it. I really love that table. Ortofon def. Has some great customer service in my experience.
1st time viewer. Liked and subscribed. I bought a Music Hall mmf-5.3 with the 2M blue some years ago and was very happy with it. Upgraded to the bronze last year and thought it was a huge step up. I went with the bronze knowing I could swap out the stylus to black down the road. Good to know about the VTA warning. I’ll need to investigate if mine is adjustable. Thanks for the info!
I am so glad that I watched this video before rushing into purchasing the 2M bronze as I have the RT 85 and as you mentioned I would need the proper tone arm that can adjust the angle for the stylus. So, I will hold off and perhaps purchase another table that has the ability to handle the moving stylus'. Thank you again for your very informative videos!
The 2M Bronze did work well with my RT85, going up to the 2M black might require a different TT since it requires a little more fine tuning. Thanks for watching!
I’m a 2m Bronze user with the U-Turn Theory. Was told that the Black could be an upgrade someday but it does not have the VTA option. I hope to get a few good years before needing to upgrade. I’ll for sure need to look into the compatibility issues then.
Long time Ortofon dealer here. The geometry of Ortofon cartridges within the same series, 2M in this case, is pretty much identical. If your turntable came properly set up for the 2M Bronze, then the Black should be AOK. It’s just a stylus swap.
Great video. Thank you. Ortofon tech support has gotten back to me on a couple of questions within a day or two. On an older Sota turntable, I went from a Red to a Blue and the differences were not subtle. I have now moved up to a Pro-Ject TT that came with a 2M silver, which is decribed as an OEM cart with a stlus from a Red with silver coated coils like the Bronze on up. When I switched the stylus from the Silver to the Blue stylus the difference in bass, staging, clarity and air were very noticeable. I did contact Ortofon about using the Bronze stylus in the Silver body. Their answer is that I can, but will not get the full benefit of a Bronze... Not sure why that would be, same Hoplex body and silver coils. I' m going to give it a try..
I recently purchased a 2M Black to replace my Bronze because I’m pretty sure my Bronze will start to show wear soon. It’s still sounding amazing though. I am wondering if my system will take advantage of the Black or if the Bronze is pretty much my systems limit. If the difference between the two isn’t apparent or substantial I may go back to Bronze down the road. My theory is that you don’t really know the limits of your system unless you step over it a bit sometimes.
@@PiecesofVinyl LVB250!!! That’s more than my wallet will allow. lol. And I doubt my 900 subs is enough for Ortofon to want to send me one for review. Haha
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I am happy with it, a huge update from the Denon I Think 300f which was my first modern TT. I had it since SL-1500C was released so I want to see if I can improve it. Did choose between it and a similar priced Rega back when I bought it.
Great video Rocco! I've been thinking about getting an Ortofon cartridge but ended up saying "i'll just save up for a new turntable", even though I got one for birthday last year but it was a beginner Crosley C-100, but was aiming for the Fluance RT-85 with the 2M Blue.
Looking forward to your review of the AT LP7. It looks gorgeous! Would be interested to know if you compared the built in phono stage to your iFi and what you thought of it.
This one is nice and I have one in my collection for about 6 years now... But once you get into LOMC, you'll quickly find out there's much, so much more to explore.
Got black and bronz black is angel more spacious preamped with tubes psvan compared to jj. Rca cables audioquest silver green and battery dbs silver direct respons .passionate we are.
I have a pretty resolving system and found the Bronze way too harsh on my set up. It sounded more digital then anything I ever had before. Now maybe with a lower budget system the Bronze or Black would loose that edge that would want me to stop listening to albums within an hour or two. I’ve gone to the Wood Body Grado’s and have never looked back. 😎
No movement at all, very well sealed, some say wood is a better insulator for the moving iron mechanism inside. Some turntables don’t like Moving Iron cartridges. ie. old Thorens. Thanks.
over 4 years ago I upgraded to 2M black, and after some fine tuning with height & azimuth etc, I've found i enjoy records I did not enjoy before, some surface noise does not not detract from the fab sound stage, even compilation lp's sound the best i've heard before, even k-tel type. Mono records sound fab too ! , had stylus since Nov 2019, not changed stylus yet !
I have a Dual 618Q Turntable that came with Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge. I want to upgrade to the 2M Black. My Integrated Amp is a Yamaha A-S1200. What would you recommend as a compatible separate external Phono Pre-Amp to match the 2M Black. My budget for the pre-amp would be at the same price range as the 2M Black Cartridge. I primarily listen to rock on CD & Phono. Thank you.
That Yamaha is really nice. Do you have a black one or a silver? Personally I would recommend the zen phono 3. It’s what I use - admittedly I have not tried a lot of- however it gets really good reviews and can handle MC carts if you end up going that route. A lot of reviewers say it’s on par with $500-600 phono stages
@@PiecesofVinyl Thanks for your reply. I went with silver. My turntable and MISSION 770 Speakers both with Walnut veneer. I choose modern technology with retro looking equipment. Like your channel Keep up the good work. Cheers
My first impressions of this cart were exactly what you said, not as bright as the bronz and more detailed, I have the blue & bronz the black is defiantly an upgrade I have it on my new technics 1210 GR…at first wasn’t sure if it was the table or the cart that I was hearing the improved difference but after a month with it I’m enjoying it and re spinning alot of my stuff just to hear the differences!
Your comment about breaking in the stylus without the turntable rotating was a revelation to me. So I wondered how this could really work?. So I tried it out! I found that it didn't work for me as i thought, as just the stylus on the the vinyl without any vibrations to me just couldn't work! Enter the wife, with her vibrator. Sorted! Her vibrator was confiscated and two days later and two sets of AA batteries later i had an amazing sounding my 2m black. However, whilst ive been busy and unbeknown to me our neibour Leroy, is also breaking in his 2cM black, and now it seems that my turntable is much better appealing on his system than mine! I'm happy with my sound, and Leroy is happy with her sounds!!!!
I had all of them at some point. For me the winner in series is Bronze, but that's just me. And it is not even that you need double the money. For my ears Bronze sounds best with my setup.
Same, if i would have to choose from that ortofon series, it would be bronze. Can be simply explained. I prefer usually the sound profile of ATs and the Bronze, unlike the rest of that series, seems to matching that AT sound profile 🤷♂️. That's why i am usually suspicious when someone recommends an upgrade from bronze to black. Blue to black, yes. But the bronze is somewhat the "outsider" in the 2M series
The Ortofon 2MR line might be a better choice for some people whose turntable doesn't have VTA adjustment as they have a lower profile. It wasn't clear to me whether they sent this to you for review and return or to keep. I would assume that you liked it so much you would have purchased it if they wanted it returned.
YES - I actually totally forgot to mention the other TYPES of cartridges they have - the under mount ones and I didnt think about this helping with the VTA - they sent it to me for review - I am hoping they let me keep it, but if they don't - I am def. buying it - because I love the way it sounds and even looks with my current setup.
Did you ever try putting the Ortofon black on the Fluance? I've read in a couple of places that it works - which makes sense if the design of Ortofon 2m carts is consistent across the range? Please do let me know!
@@PiecesofVinyl I think that could be a popular video actually. There's ambiguity on this topic, with a lot of armchair hobbyists saying it shouldn't be possible. I wrote to Ortofon yesterday though and they immediately responded saying it would be 100% fine. Hoping not to upgrade my turntable if I don't have to!
When your turntable does not feature adjustable tonearm height, you're going to run into complications trying to put ultra-high-end cartridges on it. If - for instance - you own the very popular Fluance RT-85, stick with the Ortofon 2M Blue. It's pre-suited for the angle of the tonearm, and it's a very quality cartridge. If you feel you need something more than the "Blue", you're going to be needing to get into more expensive tables.
I have the NAD C588. Brand new, with the 2M red. Sounds stellar in my rig! I am already contemplating upgrading to the 2M black. Nice seeing the ride height of the cartridge! Great video, sir!
That is SO weird! I have JUST been dealing with a clearance issue, only with the 2M Blue, which was actually dragging on the vinyl! I worked out that I had the weight set WAY too heavy, so it was all my own fault! Coincidence though!
Awesome video! I’m fairly new to the whole vinyl world and am still looking at what player I want to start with. I’m pretty strict when it comes to my electronics and never really buy “entry” so to speak and the fact you said the Fluance isn’t and I have to agree with the price for the RT85. I’ve been looking at those and recently I’ve been hearing alot of people in forums and whatnot talking about the Project Carbon Debut/Evo. What are your thoughts on those players? That’s kind of where I am at with the price range. Also, you got a new subscriber, thanks!
it seems to on the ones I have - I have some new Mono records and it sounds good to me. It's probably not as good as having a dedicated Mono cart - but that can get a little crazy.
Not really a criticism but all your shots of styli in a record groove seem to show a shibata type next to an elliptical or even just a conical? Whereas a micro-line is cut to ride deep in the groove as well in a similar way to a shibata..
Upgraded to a Bronze a year ago and biggest difference was the sibilance was gone in some of my records, such as Metallica the Black album. Crisper sound, more clarity
Clarity and Detail is the main trait of all of these 2M's in my experience. I got all of those Metallica Walmart editions (well - the first five albums) - they are really nice!
In my experience the black is good but for me the sweet spot is the bronze the black has is a problem with a really bad records. I am more into MC. I haven’t try the LVB. Good video!
If I only made one change to my vinyl system. keeping my turntable (P2), would it be better to upgrade the cart (AT-VM540ML) or the preamp (Rega Fono MK v)?
779 dollars for that at t table lab. I’m thinking about it. I thought it’d be more. I have the bronze on my technics sl 1210 now . Adjusting the level kind scares me though
i have a BLUE on my Technics SL 1300 it's ok and sounds very great but what the black does as i listen to Nostalgia [Rock'n' roll] Connie Francis. Most of my collection is ex++ to mint.Which would you favor..
I would def go with the black on the technics. You can get a lot of its greatness dialed in and a lot people have had a lot of fun with that exact setup.
I'm gonna have to check but I'm curious to know if it's compatible with my audio technica at-lp5x. Now I'm not looking to buy this now, but it would be something maybe down the road to splurge on. And I'm with you brotha man, collecting the music is where it's at. I see that Sinseers in the back lol. I can't wait for your video on it. Their cover is a paying homage to Thee Midniters on Whittier blvd record. Much love brotha man, always a great day when a new video drops from you
@@PiecesofVinyl now that is a hell of a question. . . I've never thought about it. I'd like to know that also. I love little questions like these man lol, they always make for interesting conversations.
If I understand your video correctly, 2M blue, bronze and black sound different in the nature of the sound.. Maybe it's that the different colors are made for different types of music... Bronze maybe for techno for example. Of course, if a product becomes more expensive, something in it should also become better. At least to a certain extent. I have a REGA Planar 2 with a 2M blue and I am super happy.
They both handle most genres well - I haven't really found any specific style that I wanted to get a different cartridge for - that said - I have never listened to a mono on a mono cartridge.....so that might be a future video !
The 2M black is a great cartridge..... however, if you want a big upgrade for not much cash, the Quintet black moving coil does sound significantly better all around! In my experience, the Quintet, though more expensive, is a better value.
Regarding VTA, yes an adjustable tonearm is a must, but it doesn,t have to be complicated at all. simply buy a round spirit bubble and set it on the headshell while the needle sit's on the record, adjust the height of the arm accordingly and done! Of course this is the last step. You have to align the crtridge and the headshell beforehand. That, is the most difficult part. However, thechnics provides a handy aligment tool that makes that a snap too.
Wow. The low clearance on that would relegate a lot of modern records to the bin, as warped disc just wouldn't be playable! Glad I've got plenty of space on my OM10 stylus.
But…BUT I just upgraded to the bronze. Selling me on an upgrade again! 😂 great review, this is for sure the next step eventually. Also I was worried about the low riding nature of the bronze.
It freaked me out when I opened it. I was convinced it was damaged. I was also convinced I damaged my blue. It is very low! Your setup is sweet - I love that platter on the table.
Just some info for the viewers. Ortofon has a compatiblity list of turntable/cartridge in a drop down menu tool. The FLUANCE series ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 2M Black. Fluance is not compatible with the 2M BRONZE either. Many have installed the 2M black and report great results. However without the VTA adjustments.... there is either distortion, record premature wear or stylus premature wear. The tonearms of the Fluance, Audio Technica and even Uturn... DO NOT SUPPORT THE 2M Black. REGA turntables however DO support the 2M Bronze and 2M Black. I wish this was more known.... as I bought from TH-camrs claiming the 2M black would work with these turntables.... when in fact that is not the case. I have a Fluance that I may return for this very reason. As well an Audio Technica. Ortofon will confirm... as will Fluance. You will notice Fluance has removed the 2M black from all mention on their websites now. I wish there was not so much misinformation out there on this. This is the best review I've seen on TH-cam regarding this. Excellent video.
I actually spoke with Ortofon specifically about my AT-LP7 and the fact that it wasn’t listed on their pdf for compatible tone arms with the 2M Black and the product specialist stated “the list needs to be updated not all turntables listed are correctly listed.” He assured me as did the very folks @justaudio where I got the table the ATLP7 can indeed handle the shibata 2M black. The fluance - as I stated in this review and my previous one about the bronze - can not adjust the VTA but the bronze isn’t as clinical with its fine line vs the shibata and the RT85 is dialed in for the VTA of the blue - which is the same as the bronze. I would not recommend- nor did Ortofon - to use the Black with the RT85 - but the ATLP7 is fantastic. Thanks for the comment!
@@PiecesofVinyl Thanks very much for more insight on this! I am hopeful the 2M Bronze will perform fine on the Fluance, If not..... I will be kicking myself for not getting the AT-LP7.
I’ve had a PNP Bronze on an RT-85 for over a year, zero issues. Only needed a VTF adjustment. The first thing that stood out to me was the smooth detailed bass sound. Then I got a vacuum record cleaner. It’s like I had two upgrades in a row. Do not underestimate the sound difference of a clean record. It’s as significant as a new cartridge. You will want to clean everything and listen all over again.
@@teamsix7185 You meant VTA of course. Fluance should find a way to add VTA adjustment to the tonearm. That would up the value of the RT-85 turntable for many. I’m leaving the Bronze on mine, it’s not doing any damage. I will add the Black to my Vintage Sansui SR-929 since it has VTA adjustment. But first I will try it on the RT-85 just for grins. I’m of the opinion as long as it’s in the sweet spot in terms of VTA it’s golden. As others have commented they don’t readjust VTA for 200g records which are much thicker or maybe a different turntable mat. All of which are changing the VTA. Audiophiles sometimes get lost in the technicalities and forget how to use their ears.
Black is lot more sensitive compared. It is better of these two but it needs the expensive equipment to support it. It is way too sensitive picking all the unwanted background noise also. When you hear it you can't unheard it. My pick is neither of these two. Ortofon OM Super 40 is almost as clear as 2M Black but without the background noise of being overly sensitive. You should put these two side by side and you would most likely pick the OM Super 40 even before you compare the price.
@@PiecesofVinyl Because of the design I think these slip pass the audiophile thinking these are only "club/DJ". OM Super 40: Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. > 4 mV Channel balance at 1 kHz < 1,0 dB Channel separation at 1 kHz > 25 dB Frequency response 20-20,000Hz +2/-1 dB Frequency range 20-30,000Hz Tracking ability (315Hz, lateral) > 95 µm Compliance, dynamic (lateral) 25 µm/mN Stylus type Nude FG 70 Stylus tip radius r/R 5/70 µm Tracking force range 1,25-1,75 g Recommended tracking force 1,5 g Tracking angle (vertical) 20° Internal impedance, DC resistance 1 kOhm Internal inductance 580 mH Recommended load resistance 47 kOhm Recommended load capacitance 200-500 pF Cartridge weight including weight plate 5 g Cartridge weight without weight plate 2,5 g 2M Black: Channel balance at 1 kHz 1 dB Output voltage at 1 kHz, 5cm/sec 5 mV Channel seperation at 1 kHz 26 dB Channel seperation at 15 kHz 15 dB Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz 2 / - 0 dB Tracking ability at 315Hz at recommended tracking force 80 µm Compliance, dynamic, lateral 22 µm/mN Stylus type Nude Shibata Stylus tip radius r/R 6/50 µm Tracking force range 1.4-1.7 g (14-17 mN) Tracking force, recommended 1.5 g (15 mN) Tracking angle 20° Internal impedance, DC resistance 1.2 kOhm Cartridge colour Black/Black Cartridge weight 7.2 g Premounted cartridge weight 16.7 g Recommended load resistance 47 kOhm Internal inductance 630 mH Recommended load capacitance 150-300 pF
I noticed with my old 2M Blue and current Bronze it depends on the record. I have some One-Step albums that must have deeper grooves because they ride lower. Especially the Craft Recordings Black Orpheus one-step.
I am - and it sounds really good. that said - what should I be using? that also said - I do also have a balanced headphone amp and headphones coming out of the iFi Zen Phono stage - so I can completely bypass the speakers and Douk Amp for a good A/B - but I am curious what integrated amp you would recommend - I am eventually going to upgrade.
@@PiecesofVinyl I reckon a bit of vintage solid state action. Pioneer or Sansui. Plenty of options. I run an Aiyima T9 pro for bluetooth in my setup but the vinyl goes through a 1974 Japanese amp & it defs adds depth to the sound. Not much money involved either.
I don’t know how many of you are in your files are going to hear my comment, but I am a proud owner of the LV 250 and I’ve spoken to many people that spent the money on the movie magnet by order fine, and with a boron Celer leverand the Shabab bought a stylus. It is a terrific sounding cartridge. I’m not a reviewer, but I can tell you it sounds great.
YES YES YES YES!!!!!! Thank you for talking about the super duper low distance between my blue cartridge and my record. I am now using a Technics SL-1500C turntable, upgraded from a TEAC TN-400S. On that turntable, the edges of the blue cartridge actually scraped along the record. I destroyed a blue cartridge trying to manually lower the stylus. That super duper low clearance is one resaon why I am worried about upgrading to the Black. Can you give me your thoughts about my experience? Thanx.
I CONSTANTLY look at it - and it seems to be fine on my end. I thought I had damaged my 2M Blue - but it also seems to be OK - I have never had them scrape the record - was the record warped at all?
Great job man. Need to consider an upgrade at some point. You had me at bronze… now you have me at black 😂. Your influencer skills are increasing rapidly ha.
Well - that is not my intention - only to keep making videos and sharing stuff - all of these - the Blue, Bronze or Black are all amazing I was very happy with each one. Thanks for watching!
I've been collecting records and electronics since 1979, and this cartridge is the biggest single-purchase upgrade I've ever given to my system (which is made up of Rega, McIntosh, Magnepan, Vandersteen, and HifiMan gear, so that says a lot)..
I am 57 yrs old and stopped fooling with turntables and vinyl back in the late 80's in favor of cd's. Thankfully I kept all of my albums and equipment. I had no idea about vta, tracking etc. I just put a record on the table and played it. I have since bought a vta adjustable turntable but have not upgraded the cartridge so have not had to adjust anything and am half scared to even do it.
I hear that - especially if you already happy with your sound - no sense in messing with it. but - you can always adjust it back. But I always get worried about making any adjustments!
I think there's a bit of BS going on there from them, it's got nothing to do with suspension its do with the molding probably made a mistake, you could cut the plastic away I suppose. be nice to get one of them and put it in a wooden body, has anybody's done it with this cartridge? What you mean you can't change the tracking angle vta why would you anyway need to on this cartridge? it's the same size isn't it as the blue there's no difference in height you wouldn't need to if they're the same size. You can change vta rake back if you put sheets of newspaper under the mat, and should do anyway for fine tuning, the other ways to get a little bit thinner mat and maybe 4 mm and ues some newspaper to get it right as well if you want it raking forward, I don't know what this table comes with mat looks about 5 mm best to go for a 3 mm and just pack it with newspaper then you're not limited. Just place the newspaper on top first not under the mat till it sounds right and then put it underneath.
Useless! Zero measurements. Get a test record and measure the distortion and compare two carts. Talk talk talk is useless. So many videos with zero truly useful information. Just a bunch of influencer wanna be
How do I provide you with audio samples? Any way that I record the cartridge would be compromised by the DAC conversion and the pre amps the unit recording the record was using. I have thought about this a lot and not sure how best to demonstrate sound for analog devices in this way on TH-cam.
The nagaoka mp200 will blow that out of the water. I thought the 2m black was great until i hear the mp200. Man it levelled the competiton. Sold my 2m black the day i heard the mp200
I had both. The Bronze was warm and mellow. The black was detailed and very revealing. Pick your way- both great
I realise this review is about Ortofon cartridges, but it would be a major mistake to put down $600+ for a 2M Black without listening to an Audio Technica VM540ML or VM740ML at half the price.
@@Wpjs2112 is it worth owning both?
@@ronmatthews1738 VM540 Is amazing VM740 even better. way better deal than black. save the money
Hi Rocco,
Since September 2023 I also own the 2M Black Premounted and I must say I am also very satisfied with it and the contact I had with Ortofon was excellent, I ordered directly from them in Denmark.
Best regards from the Netherlands.
I'd recommend the 2M Black LVB 250 which is an upgrade on the 2M Black. It has a boron cantilever. I have the LVB 250 which I upgraded from the Bronze. It sounds awesome.
I know - I know - boron - th-cam.com/video/MtbdctQIqYw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4kVaD-EOEp9LBkcC&t=45
😅@@PiecesofVinyl
I'm sure it sounds fantastic. But the increase in price is pretty damn steep. Most people don't even have turntable that expensive, even if they're vinyl enthusiasts.
I stretched my limits for the 2M Black after already having stretched for a Rega RP8. I was told by two different people at high end stereo shops that VTA adjustment was not needed because Ortofon had designed the 2M line to mate with the Rega tables. I would have to assume that’s true because the results are fantastic. I was a bit worried at first, but as the hours built up, the sound kept getting better and better and better! Fantastic cartridge!
Yeah - even Ortofon stated to me that a lot of the modern turntables and tone arms and most likely just fine. It’s when you actually get a little more exotic that you might have issues or even with cheaper tables as well. But a lot of modern tone arms are within tolerance.
Great review Rocco! I just ordered the 2M Black for the ease of switching b/w my 2M Mono with detachable headshells. Looking forward to spinning it....🙂
Nice. I have highly considered one of the mono carts.
Would take the plunge on a premounted 2M Black but difficult to pull the trigger with that price tag during tough financial times. Good on you for creating great content and being rewarded for it. Keep up the content!
Last year I bought a Music Hall Classic TT and opted for the Ortofon Blue, I previously had the Ortofon Red on my Pioneer. I was, and still am, blown away by the difference in sound quality. Thanks for this review, I am no expert, but I like what I hear. When it's time to upgrade I'll be looking at the Orotofon Black.
I have the 2m bronze with the idea I might upgrade to the black. The bronze sounds great on my technics 1200GR.
VTA or Vertical Tracking Angle. People needlessly stress over this. It’s important, but not as much as you think. First off, Ortofon cartridges are the most consistent in manufacture of all the cartridge brands. Secondly, after setting your tracking force (invest in a good $15 digital gauge), set the tonearm height so it’s dead nuts parallel to the record surface. With all Ortofon’s you’ve got it right. Remember, records have different thickness, your standard 120 gram pressing being thinner than your audiophile 180 gram pressing which is itself thinner than the ultra-mega super-duper 200 gram pressings. Am I going to readjust VTA with each pressing? Hell no! Michael Fremer won’t even do that. So choose the most common record thickness in your collection and set your VTA once. Thicker/thinner turntable mats are an easy way to set VTA if your tonearm is not easily adjustable.
I have an acrylic mat on mine
Thx for the info
I def don’t re adjust for each record. I adjusted for a nice 180gram and keep it there and it’s fine for thicker or thinner vinyl. I agree that these carts are very consistent on most tables and tone arms. Thanks for watching!
One of the most informative cartridge reviews on TH-cam that I have seen. May I add something? Referring to the comparative photos of the different styli profiles in the groove you can see the elliptical stylus contacts a much smaller portion of the groove compared to the Shibata profile. The advantages are two fold: 1. A stylus, even at 1.5-2 grams tracking force in such a microscopic contact area exerts a pressure of many tons per square inch. The Shibata, with its much larger contact area than the elliptical (or spherical/conical) styli, spreads out this pressure resulting in much less groove deformation and record wear over time. 2. You can see in the same photograph that the Shibata tracks a different part of the groove than the elliptical. If the record exhibits wear from many previous playings with an elliptical stylus, the Shibata, and even the hyperelliptical, will track a fresh part of the groove resulting in a great improvement in sound with many of your worn records. Cheers!
Wow. I did not know this at all regarding the new tracing of older records …but it makes sense. And it makes sense it would do less damage too thanks!
Great video! I have the Bronze and love it but will consider the Black when I need an upgrade.
The bronze is awesome. 😎
Thanks for the great video! 👍🏻
Glad I found your video. I purchased a used @M Black cartridge as I was eager to try a MM cartridge to see if it was more compatible with my preamp (lower noise vs. MC). when I installed it, however, it sounded good, but it rode very low on the record. I was afraid I had gotten a defective unit because of its low rider appearance. I was trying to save up for a replacement stylus, but having seen your video I plan to try mounting the cartridge again. Thanks!
I still to this day look at mine and think something is wrong with it - but it sounds great. I do use the lowest recommended tracking force which is 1.5grams. These carts just ride low.
I had an OM 30 that rode very low, I could swear it was touching the vinyl. Sound quality was great. But it bothered me so I upgraded to the bronze. Never looked back.....Great review
yeah - its a little freaky - I have gotten used to it - I am so afraid when wiping the stylus off sometimes though.
Watching your vids with joy here in the UK. Well done sir. Inspired and now thinking I need to try the upgrade path from my pre installed Pick Pro on my Project X1. Thinking I should go to Bronze first?
The bronze is very nice - I have a full review on that one too it's very revealing and I would imagine pairs great with the Project X1. Thanks for watching!
Great video! That cart sounds amazing. Specs and measurements do tell the whole story though. Things like warm or cold sound correlates directly with the frequency response. There's nothing in audio we can hear which can't be measured. Good thing the 2M Black measures really well.
This is a really fantastic review, Rocco. I've got a Fluance RT-85 with a 2M Blue now. I've been saving up for a 2M Bronze since I watched your review on it last year. In the meantime, I've been wondering a lot about the 2M Black, and thinking that maybe I should skip the Bronze and go directly to the Black. So I very much appreciate the info in your review about probably needing a different TT due to the Black requiring a precise tracking angle adjustment. I also had no idea that Ortofon's customer service had such great advisors. So now I'm eagerly awaiting your review of your Audio Technica LP7:-) Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Thank you so much! Yeah the ATLP7 has been a lot of fun. But I still have RT85 I am deciding what to do with it. I really love that table. Ortofon def. Has some great customer service in my experience.
1st time viewer. Liked and subscribed. I bought a Music Hall mmf-5.3 with the 2M blue some years ago and was very happy with it. Upgraded to the bronze last year and thought it was a huge step up. I went with the bronze knowing I could swap out the stylus to black down the road. Good to know about the VTA warning. I’ll need to investigate if mine is adjustable. Thanks for the info!
awesome! Thanks for watching! Those Music Hall's are really nice!
Great video, Rocco. Nice and clear explanation, amazing cart as well. Love it
Thank you for the kind words!
I am so glad that I watched this video before rushing into purchasing the 2M bronze as I have the RT 85 and as you mentioned I would need the proper tone arm that can adjust the angle for the stylus. So, I will hold off and perhaps purchase another table that has the ability to handle the moving stylus'. Thank you again for your very informative videos!
The 2M Bronze did work well with my RT85, going up to the 2M black might require a different TT since it requires a little more fine tuning. Thanks for watching!
THANK YOU for great information and getting to the point in a reasonable fashion. This is how it’s done.
Appreciate that!
I’m a 2m Bronze user with the U-Turn Theory. Was told that the Black could be an upgrade someday but it does not have the VTA option. I hope to get a few good years before needing to upgrade. I’ll for sure need to look into the compatibility issues then.
U-Turn customer service is amazing, I'm sure they will be great help when you go that route.
@@AnchorTH agree, they were great when I had questions during the purchase.
there are ways you can handle the adjustment with either a different mat or (in some tables like Regas) they have shims that can under the tone arm.
@@PiecesofVinyl thank you.
Long time Ortofon dealer here. The geometry of Ortofon cartridges within the same series, 2M in this case, is pretty much identical. If your turntable came properly set up for the 2M Bronze, then the Black should be AOK. It’s just a stylus swap.
Great video. Thank you. Ortofon tech support has gotten back to me on a couple of questions within a day or two. On an older Sota turntable, I went from a Red to a Blue and the differences were not subtle. I have now moved up to a Pro-Ject TT that came with a 2M silver, which is decribed as an OEM cart with a stlus from a Red with silver coated coils like the Bronze on up. When I switched the stylus from the Silver to the Blue stylus the difference in bass, staging, clarity and air were very noticeable. I did contact Ortofon about using the Bronze stylus in the Silver body. Their answer is that I can, but will not get the full benefit of a Bronze... Not sure why that would be, same Hoplex body and silver coils. I' m going to give it a try..
The cool thing is you can try and see and if yon don’t like it continue with entire cartridge! Good luck!
I recently purchased a 2M Black to replace my Bronze because I’m pretty sure my Bronze will start to show wear soon. It’s still sounding amazing though. I am wondering if my system will take advantage of the Black or if the Bronze is pretty much my systems limit. If the difference between the two isn’t apparent or substantial I may go back to Bronze down the road. My theory is that you don’t really know the limits of your system unless you step over it a bit sometimes.
I agree. But try it out and see - I didn’t think I would notice a big difference - but I was wrong. And it probably continues - LVB250!!
@@PiecesofVinyl LVB250!!! That’s more than my wallet will allow. lol. And I doubt my 900 subs is enough for Ortofon to want to send me one for review. Haha
Very interesting, have a 2M Blue today on my Technics SL-1500C and i am considering getting a new cartridge
This is a good option!
How's your 1500c, are you loving it?
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I am happy with it, a huge update from the Denon I Think 300f which was my first modern TT. I had it since SL-1500C was released so I want to see if I can improve it. Did choose between it and a similar priced Rega back when I bought it.
Great review.
Thanks!
Great video Rocco! I've been thinking about getting an Ortofon cartridge but ended up saying "i'll just save up for a new turntable", even though I got one for birthday last year but it was a beginner Crosley C-100, but was aiming for the Fluance RT-85 with the 2M Blue.
.....I am actually looking to sell my Fluance RT85 w/ OMBlue - are you interested??
@@PiecesofVinyl I definitely could be!
don't throw out that Crosley! with a little ingenuity it would make a good record cleaning table, with the addition of a mini shop vac
Looking forward to your review of the AT LP7. It looks gorgeous! Would be interested to know if you compared the built in phono stage to your iFi and what you thought of it.
Working on it!
This one is nice and I have one in my collection for about 6 years now...
But once you get into LOMC, you'll quickly find out there's much, so much more to explore.
Got black and bronz black is angel more spacious preamped with tubes psvan compared to jj. Rca cables audioquest silver green and battery dbs silver direct respons .passionate we are.
I have a pretty resolving system and found the Bronze way too harsh on my set up.
It sounded more digital then anything I ever had before. Now maybe with a lower budget system the Bronze or Black would loose that edge that would want me to stop listening to albums within an hour or two. I’ve gone to the Wood Body Grado’s and have never looked back. 😎
I have seen those wooden cartridge - what is the advantage to wood? and does it swell or contract?
Yes, the Grado cartridges definitely have a dark, lush, romantic sound.
No movement at all, very well sealed, some say wood is a better insulator for the moving iron mechanism inside. Some turntables don’t like Moving Iron cartridges. ie. old Thorens.
Thanks.
over 4 years ago I upgraded to 2M black, and after some fine tuning with height & azimuth etc, I've found i enjoy records I did not enjoy before, some surface noise does not not detract from the fab sound stage, even compilation lp's sound the best i've heard before, even k-tel type. Mono records sound fab too ! , had stylus since Nov 2019, not changed stylus yet !
That’s good to hear about how long you have had it.
I have a Dual 618Q Turntable that came with Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge. I want to upgrade to the 2M Black. My Integrated Amp is a Yamaha A-S1200. What would you recommend as a compatible separate external Phono Pre-Amp to match the 2M Black. My budget for the pre-amp would be at the same price range as the 2M Black Cartridge. I primarily listen to rock on CD & Phono. Thank you.
That Yamaha is really nice. Do you have a black one or a silver? Personally I would recommend the zen phono 3. It’s what I use - admittedly I have not tried a lot of- however it gets really good reviews and can handle MC carts if you end up going that route. A lot of reviewers say it’s on par with $500-600 phono stages
@@PiecesofVinyl Thanks for your reply.
I went with silver. My turntable and MISSION 770 Speakers both with Walnut veneer. I choose modern technology with retro looking equipment.
Like your channel
Keep up the good work.
Cheers
My first impressions of this cart were exactly what you said, not as bright as the bronz and more detailed, I have the blue & bronz the black is defiantly an upgrade I have it on my new technics 1210 GR…at first wasn’t sure if it was the table or the cart that I was hearing the improved difference but after a month with it I’m enjoying it and re spinning alot of my stuff just to hear the differences!
I have some opinions on the table itself vs. the cartridge - stay tuned!
Your comment about breaking in the stylus without the turntable rotating was a revelation to me.
So I wondered how this could really work?. So I tried it out!
I found that it didn't work for me as i thought, as just the stylus on the the vinyl without any vibrations to me just couldn't work!
Enter the wife, with her vibrator.
Sorted! Her vibrator was confiscated and two days later and two sets of AA batteries later i had an amazing sounding my 2m black.
However, whilst ive been busy and unbeknown to me our neibour Leroy, is also breaking in his 2cM black, and now it seems that my turntable is much better appealing on his system than mine!
I'm happy with my sound, and Leroy is happy with her sounds!!!!
Awesome!
I had all of them at some point. For me the winner in series is Bronze, but that's just me. And it is not even that you need double the money. For my ears Bronze sounds best with my setup.
Same, if i would have to choose from that ortofon series, it would be bronze. Can be simply explained. I prefer usually the sound profile of ATs and the Bronze, unlike the rest of that series, seems to matching that AT sound profile 🤷♂️. That's why i am usually suspicious when someone recommends an upgrade from bronze to black. Blue to black, yes. But the bronze is somewhat the "outsider" in the 2M series
The Ortofon 2MR line might be a better choice for some people whose turntable doesn't have VTA adjustment as they have a lower profile. It wasn't clear to me whether they sent this to you for review and return or to keep. I would assume that you liked it so much you would have purchased it if they wanted it returned.
YES - I actually totally forgot to mention the other TYPES of cartridges they have - the under mount ones and I didnt think about this helping with the VTA - they sent it to me for review - I am hoping they let me keep it, but if they don't - I am def. buying it - because I love the way it sounds and even looks with my current setup.
@@PiecesofVinyl
Awesome!
I found it outstanding. But I had to put a 2mm spacer to achieve the right VTA for my rega P6.
I have hear of those spacers for regas. Nice they even have the option.
Did you ever try putting the Ortofon black on the Fluance? I've read in a couple of places that it works - which makes sense if the design of Ortofon 2m carts is consistent across the range? Please do let me know!
I have not - but I might as well - I have both and I just setup my Fluance again - so that might be a good video idea!
@@PiecesofVinyl I think that could be a popular video actually. There's ambiguity on this topic, with a lot of armchair hobbyists saying it shouldn't be possible. I wrote to Ortofon yesterday though and they immediately responded saying it would be 100% fine. Hoping not to upgrade my turntable if I don't have to!
When your turntable does not feature adjustable tonearm height, you're going to run into complications trying to put ultra-high-end cartridges on it. If - for instance - you own the very popular Fluance RT-85, stick with the Ortofon 2M Blue. It's pre-suited for the angle of the tonearm, and it's a very quality cartridge. If you feel you need something more than the "Blue", you're going to be needing to get into more expensive tables.
I agree - which is why I upgraded from the Fluance - however the Bronze does work well with it if you wanted to go there.
I have the NAD C588. Brand new, with the 2M red. Sounds stellar in my rig! I am already contemplating upgrading to the 2M black. Nice seeing the ride height of the cartridge! Great video, sir!
That is SO weird! I have JUST been dealing with a clearance issue, only with the 2M Blue, which was actually dragging on the vinyl! I worked out that I had the weight set WAY too heavy, so it was all my own fault! Coincidence though!
Yeah they don’t need a lot of weight. 1.5 should be plenty.
Awesome video! I’m fairly new to the whole vinyl world and am still looking at what player I want to start with. I’m pretty strict when it comes to my electronics and never really buy “entry” so to speak and the fact you said the Fluance isn’t and I have to agree with the price for the RT85. I’ve been looking at those and recently I’ve been hearing alot of people in forums and whatnot talking about the Project Carbon Debut/Evo. What are your thoughts on those players? That’s kind of where I am at with the price range. Also, you got a new subscriber, thanks!
Thanks for watching! Check out my most recent video - might apply to your situation!
Does The 2m blk play well on the old mono Records?
it seems to on the ones I have - I have some new Mono records and it sounds good to me. It's probably not as good as having a dedicated Mono cart - but that can get a little crazy.
Not really a criticism but all your shots of styli in a record groove seem to show a shibata type next to an elliptical or even just a conical? Whereas a micro-line is cut to ride deep in the groove as well in a similar way to a shibata..
Noted. That was not intentional I was probably just looking for close up shots of styli in the grooves.
Upgraded to a Bronze a year ago and biggest difference was the sibilance was gone in some of my records, such as Metallica the Black album. Crisper sound, more clarity
Clarity and Detail is the main trait of all of these 2M's in my experience. I got all of those Metallica Walmart editions (well - the first five albums) - they are really nice!
In my experience the black is good but for me the sweet spot is the bronze the black has is a problem with a really bad records. I am more into MC.
I haven’t try the LVB.
Good video!
Thanks! I agree and I have heard similar issues. The bronze is amazing as well!
Then you could, for example, compare with cartridges from other manufacturers or brands in the same price range
I would eventually like to do this. Thanks for watching!
If I only made one change to my vinyl system. keeping my turntable (P2), would it be better to upgrade the cart (AT-VM540ML) or the preamp (Rega Fono MK v)?
I would say the cartridge. It touches the record. In a source person. So it all starts there.
779 dollars for that at t table lab. I’m thinking about it. I thought it’d be more.
I have the bronze on my technics sl 1210 now . Adjusting the level kind scares me though
I hear you with making adjustments. You can always move it back or just try it without adjusting and see if it sounds good.
i have a BLUE on my Technics SL 1300 it's ok and sounds very great but what the black does as i listen to Nostalgia [Rock'n' roll] Connie Francis. Most of my collection is ex++ to mint.Which would you favor..
I would def go with the black on the technics. You can get a lot of its greatness dialed in and a lot people have had a lot of fun with that exact setup.
@@PiecesofVinyl What will i hear differently with my Connie Francis collection.? than the BLUE. I have mono vinyl too..
Class review
Thank you!🙏
I'm gonna have to check but I'm curious to know if it's compatible with my audio technica at-lp5x. Now I'm not looking to buy this now, but it would be something maybe down the road to splurge on. And I'm with you brotha man, collecting the music is where it's at. I see that Sinseers in the back lol. I can't wait for your video on it. Their cover is a paying homage to Thee Midniters on Whittier blvd record. Much love brotha man, always a great day when a new video drops from you
I didn’t know about that cover. Is there a thing with all these groups using Thee - ?
@@PiecesofVinyl now that is a hell of a question. . . I've never thought about it. I'd like to know that also. I love little questions like these man lol, they always make for interesting conversations.
The lp5x is a P mount isn’t it? Ortofon makes the 2M in P mount versions.
Nice video I came across by accident thumbs up and I be watching your channel
thanks for watching!
I have both, and I highly recommend for everyone, but the staunchest audiophile go with the bonze.
Why is that mate? I'm considering one of these today (60's/70's/90's indie, rock and alt-rock mainly...)
Somebody around here needs to buy a Denon 103R.
If I understand your video correctly, 2M blue, bronze and black sound different in the nature of the sound.. Maybe it's that the different colors are made for different types of music... Bronze maybe for techno for example. Of course, if a product becomes more expensive, something in it should also become better. At least to a certain extent. I have a REGA Planar 2 with a 2M blue and I am super happy.
They both handle most genres well - I haven't really found any specific style that I wanted to get a different cartridge for - that said - I have never listened to a mono on a mono cartridge.....so that might be a future video !
The 2M black is a great cartridge..... however, if you want a big upgrade for not much cash, the Quintet black moving coil does sound significantly better all around! In my experience, the Quintet, though more expensive, is a better value.
I am def. considering a MC cartridge soon. just because.
@PiecesofVinyl
The only issue with MC is cost. It's not for noobs. But if you crave the highest resolution, it's the way to go.
Regarding VTA, yes an adjustable tonearm is a must, but it doesn,t have to be complicated at all. simply buy a round spirit bubble and set it on the headshell while the needle sit's on the record, adjust the height of the arm accordingly and done! Of course this is the last step. You have to align the crtridge and the headshell beforehand. That, is the most difficult part. However, thechnics provides a handy aligment tool that makes that a snap too.
Wow. The low clearance on that would relegate a lot of modern records to the bin, as warped disc just wouldn't be playable! Glad I've got plenty of space on my OM10 stylus.
Can you do Quintet MC Bronze
I would love to. Have tried any MC carts yet.
But…BUT I just upgraded to the bronze. Selling me on an upgrade again! 😂 great review, this is for sure the next step eventually. Also I was worried about the low riding nature of the bronze.
It freaked me out when I opened it. I was convinced it was damaged. I was also convinced I damaged my blue. It is very low! Your setup is sweet - I love that platter on the table.
@@PiecesofVinyl loving the X2…paired with the bronze it’s so nice.
Just some info for the viewers. Ortofon has a compatiblity list of turntable/cartridge in a drop down menu tool. The FLUANCE series ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 2M Black. Fluance is not compatible with the 2M BRONZE either. Many have installed the 2M black and report great results. However without the VTA adjustments.... there is either distortion, record premature wear or stylus premature wear. The tonearms of the Fluance, Audio Technica and even Uturn... DO NOT SUPPORT THE 2M Black. REGA turntables however DO support the 2M Bronze and 2M Black. I wish this was more known.... as I bought from TH-camrs claiming the 2M black would work with these turntables.... when in fact that is not the case. I have a Fluance that I may return for this very reason. As well an Audio Technica. Ortofon will confirm... as will Fluance. You will notice Fluance has removed the 2M black from all mention on their websites now. I wish there was not so much misinformation out there on this. This is the best review I've seen on TH-cam regarding this. Excellent video.
I actually spoke with Ortofon specifically about my AT-LP7 and the fact that it wasn’t listed on their pdf for compatible tone arms with the 2M Black and the product specialist stated “the list needs to be updated not all turntables listed are correctly listed.” He assured me as did the very folks @justaudio where I got the table the ATLP7 can indeed handle the shibata 2M black. The fluance - as I stated in this review and my previous one about the bronze - can not adjust the VTA but the bronze isn’t as clinical with its fine line vs the shibata and the RT85 is dialed in for the VTA of the blue - which is the same as the bronze. I would not recommend- nor did Ortofon - to use the Black with the RT85 - but the ATLP7 is fantastic. Thanks for the comment!
@@PiecesofVinyl Thanks very much for more insight on this! I am hopeful the 2M Bronze will perform fine on the Fluance, If not..... I will be kicking myself for not getting the AT-LP7.
I’ve had a PNP Bronze on an RT-85 for over a year, zero issues. Only needed a VTF adjustment. The first thing that stood out to me was the smooth detailed bass sound. Then I got a vacuum record cleaner. It’s like I had two upgrades in a row. Do not underestimate the sound difference of a clean record. It’s as significant as a new cartridge. You will want to clean everything and listen all over again.
@@AnalogMan082 Thats the thing... Fluance cannot have a VTA adjustment... that's why they say its not compatible.
@@teamsix7185 You meant VTA of course. Fluance should find a way to add VTA adjustment to the tonearm. That would up the value of the RT-85 turntable for many. I’m leaving the Bronze on mine, it’s not doing any damage. I will add the Black to my Vintage Sansui SR-929 since it has VTA adjustment. But first I will try it on the RT-85 just for grins. I’m of the opinion as long as it’s in the sweet spot in terms of VTA it’s golden. As others have commented they don’t readjust VTA for 200g records which are much thicker or maybe a different turntable mat. All of which are changing the VTA. Audiophiles sometimes get lost in the technicalities and forget how to use their ears.
I had a mc Rondo Blue it was fantastic but kids broke cantilever in a week Ortofon said too bad .So I went to Sumiko Evo 3 ho
No!
Black is lot more sensitive compared. It is better of these two but it needs the expensive equipment to support it. It is way too sensitive picking all the unwanted background noise also. When you hear it you can't unheard it. My pick is neither of these two. Ortofon OM Super 40 is almost as clear as 2M Black but without the background noise of being overly sensitive. You should put these two side by side and you would most likely pick the OM Super 40 even before you compare the price.
I am interested on these Concorde elite ones as well.
@@PiecesofVinyl Because of the design I think these slip pass the audiophile thinking these are only "club/DJ".
OM Super 40:
Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. > 4 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz < 1,0 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz > 25 dB
Frequency response 20-20,000Hz +2/-1 dB
Frequency range 20-30,000Hz
Tracking ability (315Hz, lateral) > 95 µm
Compliance, dynamic (lateral) 25 µm/mN
Stylus type Nude FG 70
Stylus tip radius r/R 5/70 µm
Tracking force range 1,25-1,75 g
Recommended tracking force 1,5 g
Tracking angle (vertical) 20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance 1 kOhm
Internal inductance 580 mH
Recommended load resistance 47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance 200-500 pF
Cartridge weight including weight plate 5 g
Cartridge weight without weight plate 2,5 g
2M Black:
Channel balance at 1 kHz 1 dB
Output voltage at 1 kHz, 5cm/sec 5 mV
Channel seperation at 1 kHz 26 dB
Channel seperation at 15 kHz 15 dB
Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz 2 / - 0 dB
Tracking ability at 315Hz at recommended tracking force 80 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral 22 µm/mN
Stylus type Nude Shibata
Stylus tip radius r/R 6/50 µm
Tracking force range 1.4-1.7 g (14-17 mN)
Tracking force, recommended 1.5 g (15 mN)
Tracking angle 20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance 1.2 kOhm
Cartridge colour Black/Black
Cartridge weight 7.2 g
Premounted cartridge weight 16.7 g
Recommended load resistance 47 kOhm
Internal inductance 630 mH
Recommended load capacitance 150-300 pF
They give it to you free or you sent back?
I have not sent it back yet - I hope they let me keep it! If not - at least a discounted price!
I rather get a Jico SAS for my Sony Xl45, peole say it it has sound like the Black but better
Tracking angle not important ask any rega owner
hmm, my 2M Blue doesn't ride anywhere near that low. good stuff.
I noticed with my old 2M Blue and current Bronze it depends on the record. I have some One-Step albums that must have deeper grooves because they ride lower. Especially the Craft Recordings Black Orpheus one-step.
That’s funny I have noticed the same thing.
Most of my vinyl in from 1960's and 70's. Mostyly bad pressings. I have the Bronze and OM20. As I don't buy new LPs, I wont be upgrading!
Dude you broke me. Are you playing that setup through a Douk amp?
I am - and it sounds really good. that said - what should I be using? that also said - I do also have a balanced headphone amp and headphones coming out of the iFi Zen Phono stage - so I can completely bypass the speakers and Douk Amp for a good A/B - but I am curious what integrated amp you would recommend - I am eventually going to upgrade.
@@PiecesofVinyl I reckon a bit of vintage solid state action. Pioneer or Sansui. Plenty of options. I run an Aiyima T9 pro for bluetooth in my setup but the vinyl goes through a 1974 Japanese amp & it defs adds depth to the sound. Not much money involved either.
I don’t know how many of you are in your files are going to hear my comment, but I am a proud owner of the LV 250 and I’ve spoken to many people that spent the money on the movie magnet by order fine, and with a boron Celer leverand the Shabab bought a stylus. It is a terrific sounding cartridge. I’m not a reviewer, but I can tell you it sounds great.
The flagship? Are you sure?
That’s what they say - ortofon.com/products/2m-black?_pos=1&_psq=2m+bla&_ss=e&_v=1.0
YES YES YES YES!!!!!! Thank you for talking about the super duper low distance between my blue cartridge and my record. I am now using a Technics SL-1500C turntable, upgraded from a TEAC TN-400S. On that turntable, the edges of the blue cartridge actually scraped along the record. I destroyed a blue cartridge trying to manually lower the stylus. That super duper low clearance is one resaon why I am worried about upgrading to the Black. Can you give me your thoughts about my experience? Thanx.
I CONSTANTLY look at it - and it seems to be fine on my end. I thought I had damaged my 2M Blue - but it also seems to be OK - I have never had them scrape the record - was the record warped at all?
tbh the blue cartridge tracks better
Great job man. Need to consider an upgrade at some point. You had me at bronze… now you have me at black 😂. Your influencer skills are increasing rapidly ha.
Well - that is not my intention - only to keep making videos and sharing stuff - all of these - the Blue, Bronze or Black are all amazing I was very happy with each one. Thanks for watching!
@@PiecesofVinyl I went from red to blue. Can’t wait for the next level
Mount the "2M Black" and save money!
I sell my "2M Silver and 2M Blue" (both are like NEW).
I've been collecting records and electronics since 1979, and this cartridge is the biggest single-purchase upgrade I've ever given to my system
(which is made up of Rega, McIntosh, Magnepan, Vandersteen, and HifiMan gear, so that says a lot)..
Nice review. Your stylus needs a clean FYI 😄
In other words, never play anything other than a perfectly flat record with your Ortofon carts 🙄
well - I would try not to play any warped on any cartridges - that said, I have some that aren't too bad and it seems to handle them ok.
Any audiophile worth their salt, will tell you that you can get the sound your looking for …with tone controls
I am not against tone controls.
I am 57 yrs old and stopped fooling with turntables and vinyl back in the late 80's in favor of cd's. Thankfully I kept all of my albums and equipment. I had no idea about vta, tracking etc. I just put a record on the table and played it. I have since bought a vta adjustable turntable but have not upgraded the cartridge so have not had to adjust anything and am half scared to even do it.
I hear that - especially if you already happy with your sound - no sense in messing with it. but - you can always adjust it back. But I always get worried about making any adjustments!
It's actually pronounced Or-Tow-Phone. Accent on the Phone.
Of course it is!
Tsunami. Pronounced, tsɯnami
No!! You should upgrade to a CD player 😆👍
These cartridges don't track well on CDs though.
I think there's a bit of BS going on there from them, it's got nothing to do with suspension its do with the molding probably made a mistake, you could cut the plastic away I suppose. be nice to get one of them and put it in a wooden body, has anybody's done it with this cartridge?
What you mean you can't change the tracking angle vta why would you anyway need to on this cartridge? it's the same size isn't it as the blue there's no difference in height you wouldn't need to if they're the same size.
You can change vta rake back if you put sheets of newspaper under the mat, and should do anyway for fine tuning, the other ways to get a little bit thinner mat and maybe 4 mm and ues some newspaper to get it right as well if you want it raking forward, I don't know what this table comes with mat looks about 5 mm best to go for a 3 mm and just pack it with newspaper then you're not limited. Just place the newspaper on top first not under the mat till it sounds right and then put it underneath.
Useless! Zero measurements. Get a test record and measure the distortion and compare two carts. Talk talk talk is useless. So many videos with zero truly useful information. Just a bunch of influencer wanna be
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Why the F was my comment taken down by the TH-cam police? Damn…. I sent you a few messages, Rocco. 👍🔊😊🎶
Po co tyle gadania ! Włącz i porównamy ! Nie tego oczekuję. Kazanie prawisz ?? Do dupy z takim porównaniem.
How do I provide you with audio samples? Any way that I record the cartridge would be compromised by the DAC conversion and the pre amps the unit recording the record was using. I have thought about this a lot and not sure how best to demonstrate sound for analog devices in this way on TH-cam.
@@PiecesofVinyl Też mam sprzęt wysokiej klasy, gramofon itp. I można nawet zwykłym smartfonem. Różnicę słychać. Kto ma, ten wie. Pozdrawiam.
The bronze isnt worth upgrading to from the blue. Overpriced hype.
The nagaoka mp200 will blow that out of the water. I thought the 2m black was great until i hear the mp200. Man it levelled the competiton. Sold my 2m black the day i heard the mp200