@47:00 -- sent it. looking for this consequential demarcation of modeling vs asset creation. got it. sculpt into a qualitative form fundamentally descriptive in a finite environment (benchmarks in G0,1,&2). elevate this production to build the qualitative asset carried forward to the next environment demanding its superior performance (making prior benchmarks inconsequential). its like the machinist holding a dimension to 5 decimals w/o incurring subsequent exponential cost beyond the nominal 3. pretty sweet gig me thinx. these are super sweet vids.
The "automatic" option will match to target isocurve direction when matching to a natural edge and perpendicular when matching to a trimmed edge. So yeah, nothing you wouldn't be able to do manually. That's also the reason why in your example, the two results don't only look similar, they are! Man, I wouldn't believe my eyes when I saw a random video in my feed from a channel called "Better Living Through CNC". I used to be a follower of your old blog, but hadn't heard from you for a long time. Not too long ago I even went back to it, while looking for some info on t-splines, since I've been trying to learn Fusion 360 lately. Please keep more quality content like this coming. Not too many people seem to understand how surfacing really works and these videos help clarify things a lot.
Hey again! Would you care to share your thoughts on how things evolved in the cad world in the last years? Are you still using t-splines in any way? For me Rhino has been a big let down. Have you ever felt the same? Are you still active online in any way other than YT? I'd like to follow along. Regards from Greece!
@@captivenut4122 So for me, I've been using VSR/Autodesk Shape on Rhino V5 heavily for the past few years - I really moved away from using T-Splines after they left Rhino, and frankly found that for lots of the stuff that I do, a classic patch modeling/class-a approach creates a better end product than a sub-d approach. That being said I'm glad Rhino has put sub-d of their own into 7 and will play around with it. For me, it's been frustrating to see how little development of the core surfacing tools has taken place in subsequent versions of Rhino. I'm now on 7, but still primarily surface in V5/VSR Shape. For me, this is now my primary focus instead of the blog. I'm also active on the Rhino forums under sgreenawalt. I'm curious about why you feel let down by Rhino though - there's many plusses but also minus to Rhino, it's a trade off for sure.
@@thirtysixverts " it's been frustrating to see how little development of the core surfacing tools has taken place in subsequent versions of Rhino." That's the big let down right there! Couldn't have put it better myself. I mean all the primary tools like blending, matching, lofting e.t.c. have been (almost) unaltered since Rhino 4 as far as I can tell. And you still have very limited options for quality surfacing and continuity control. Not to mention the (lack of) means to analyze your work, which is still those horrendous zebra stripes. Also there was a point in time when some really great plug-ins were available, but not anymore. To name the top three for me: Shape Modeling, T-Splines and Rhinoworks. Man those would have been game changers, had they stayed with Rhino. On the other hand for the price you do get quite a lot (especially in my case being a teacher), so yeah, can't complain too much. I'd like to thank you for the reply. I'll be looking forward for future posts. Cheers!
@@captivenut4122 You're preaching to the choir here lol! There are a FEW nice improvements in 7 - like the ability to measure edge continuity with EdgeContinuity, but I'm with you 100%. Stock Rhino tries with all its might to create overly dense surfaces that are difficult to edit, unless you know how to fool it into doing otherwise - hence this series! If you had Shape - why not just use 5/Shape? If you're really into surfacing, there's nothing on 7 that matches 5 with Shape.
@@thirtysixverts I never had Shape. Not doing this on a pro level could not justify the price tag and I was also not too confident in my skills to take the next step, but I had high hopes that someday I would be able to get there. Then came Autodesk with a completely different opinion! 😅
Isn't automatic, on the match surface command, just picking the best result between the three options? and it happens that the best result is always match target isocurves.
Great video Sky, 100% agreed on the lack of numerical feedback. Without VSR, there’s just no good way to judge whether tangency or curvature is good enough. V7 has a tool, but I haven’t played with it much yet.
Yeah I know they have some tool, but from what I can tell so far it might just do two edges at a time - I really like you can analyze your entire model at once with VSR.
Well done! I really liked the last part where you start refining the match. We definitely need better native analysis tools in Rhino. V7 is improving on this part, though the new EdgeContinuity tool is not very user friendly (you need to manually pick edge pairs). On the other hand the tool can remain active during modeling. Can you share that model you have before matching/increasing the degree so to see how it works in V7?
Sorry for the delay, not sure why I don't always get notifications to comments! I'll dig around and see if I have the earlier version, but I kinda doubt it because I probably saved it with that final matched surface.
Many thanks for a very helpful series. Quick (probably extremely dumb) question - in the beginning of the video, when you are changing the match surf parameters (changing from tangency to curvature match for example) the original surface and control points remain visible along with the preview of the new surface. Is there a toggle somewhere to turn that on or off, because in R7 I've just got the surface preview showing. Thanks in advance!
Great video! For some reason when I enter the matchsrf command the control points disappear even though they're turned on before I run matchsrf and they re-appear after matchsrf finishes. Any idea why I cant see them while I'm in the matchsrf interface?
If they are both single span, then you can always use the ChangeDegree command and make the lower degree surface the same as the higher degree one. If they are different degree AND different spans, then you'll likely want to Rebuild them to the same parameters.
There is now a free user created tool called Global Edge Continuity if you're on V7, and I highly recommend it. Do a search for that on the Rhino forum and the appropriate thread should pop up. I myself still use V5/VSR for all my professional work, but use V7 when I need better mesh editing tools or quick renders with Cycles.
@@thirtysixverts Awesome. But i'm curious why do you still prefer VSR when GEC is available? is it missing features that VSR has or are you just accustomed to vsr's UI? Im sure youve tried GEC. are there differences in the results?
Lol too much Thanksgiving food. GEC is nice but it's just an analysis tool, not a modeling tool. VSR has all the core modeling tools I need for high quality surfacing.
Might be a lot to ask but maybe you could make another video on tolerances or recommend me where to look? That's interesting but in general I'm not as familiar with that.
I searched for such explanations for YEARS, then I found your channel. Thank you for sharing your priceless knowledge
"Sculpt low, match high" 🔥
@47:00 -- sent it. looking for this consequential demarcation of modeling vs asset creation. got it. sculpt into a qualitative form fundamentally descriptive in a finite environment (benchmarks in G0,1,&2). elevate this production to build the qualitative asset carried forward to the next environment demanding its superior performance (making prior benchmarks inconsequential). its like the machinist holding a dimension to 5 decimals w/o incurring subsequent exponential cost beyond the nominal 3. pretty sweet gig me thinx. these are super sweet vids.
Thank you very much for taking so much effort in finally explaining matchsrf!!!.. the best video on the subject
Excellent video!
You're a legend, thank you !
Outstanding
That's why I love rhino
The "automatic" option will match to target isocurve direction when matching to a natural edge and perpendicular when matching to a trimmed edge. So yeah, nothing you wouldn't be able to do manually. That's also the reason why in your example, the two results don't only look similar, they are!
Man, I wouldn't believe my eyes when I saw a random video in my feed from a channel called "Better Living Through CNC". I used to be a follower of your old blog, but hadn't heard from you for a long time. Not too long ago I even went back to it, while looking for some info on t-splines, since I've been trying to learn Fusion 360 lately. Please keep more quality content like this coming. Not too many people seem to understand how surfacing really works and these videos help clarify things a lot.
Hey again! Would you care to share your thoughts on how things evolved in the cad world in the last years? Are you still using t-splines in any way? For me Rhino has been a big let down. Have you ever felt the same? Are you still active online in any way other than YT? I'd like to follow along. Regards from Greece!
@@captivenut4122 So for me, I've been using VSR/Autodesk Shape on Rhino V5 heavily for the past few years - I really moved away from using T-Splines after they left Rhino, and frankly found that for lots of the stuff that I do, a classic patch modeling/class-a approach creates a better end product than a sub-d approach. That being said I'm glad Rhino has put sub-d of their own into 7 and will play around with it. For me, it's been frustrating to see how little development of the core surfacing tools has taken place in subsequent versions of Rhino. I'm now on 7, but still primarily surface in V5/VSR Shape. For me, this is now my primary focus instead of the blog. I'm also active on the Rhino forums under sgreenawalt. I'm curious about why you feel let down by Rhino though - there's many plusses but also minus to Rhino, it's a trade off for sure.
@@thirtysixverts " it's been frustrating to see how little development of the core surfacing tools has taken place in subsequent versions of Rhino."
That's the big let down right there! Couldn't have put it better myself. I mean all the primary tools like blending, matching, lofting e.t.c. have been (almost) unaltered since Rhino 4 as far as I can tell. And you still have very limited options for quality surfacing and continuity control. Not to mention the (lack of) means to analyze your work, which is still those horrendous zebra stripes.
Also there was a point in time when some really great plug-ins were available, but not anymore. To name the top three for me: Shape Modeling, T-Splines and Rhinoworks. Man those would have been game changers, had they stayed with Rhino. On the other hand for the price you do get quite a lot (especially in my case being a teacher), so yeah, can't complain too much.
I'd like to thank you for the reply. I'll be looking forward for future posts. Cheers!
@@captivenut4122 You're preaching to the choir here lol! There are a FEW nice improvements in 7 - like the ability to measure edge continuity with EdgeContinuity, but I'm with you 100%. Stock Rhino tries with all its might to create overly dense surfaces that are difficult to edit, unless you know how to fool it into doing otherwise - hence this series! If you had Shape - why not just use 5/Shape? If you're really into surfacing, there's nothing on 7 that matches 5 with Shape.
@@thirtysixverts I never had Shape. Not doing this on a pro level could not justify the price tag and I was also not too confident in my skills to take the next step, but I had high hopes that someday I would be able to get there. Then came Autodesk with a completely different opinion! 😅
very good! thank You!. could You also make a tutorial for rhino to cad workflow. i have problems with exports etc. i cant understand it.
Awesome video !
Isn't automatic, on the match surface command, just picking the best result between the three options? and it happens that the best result is always match target isocurves.
I honestly don't know - it's a little silly to name something "automatic" imho - really doesn't tell you what's going on with your surface.
Yes, I think so too. Automatic = pick automatically one of the three options bellow, to get best result.
Great video Sky, 100% agreed on the lack of numerical feedback. Without VSR, there’s just no good way to judge whether tangency or curvature is good enough. V7 has a tool, but I haven’t played with it much yet.
Yeah I know they have some tool, but from what I can tell so far it might just do two edges at a time - I really like you can analyze your entire model at once with VSR.
Very well done, thank you.
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Well done! I really liked the last part where you start refining the match. We definitely need better native analysis tools in Rhino. V7 is improving on this part, though the new EdgeContinuity tool is not very user friendly (you need to manually pick edge pairs). On the other hand the tool can remain active during modeling. Can you share that model you have before matching/increasing the degree so to see how it works in V7?
Sorry for the delay, not sure why I don't always get notifications to comments! I'll dig around and see if I have the earlier version, but I kinda doubt it because I probably saved it with that final matched surface.
TIP Idea, Average Surface @'7:03' : You can place them on a separate layer and use a specific color to indicate their importance or uniqueness
Many thanks for a very helpful series. Quick (probably extremely dumb) question - in the beginning of the video, when you are changing the match surf parameters (changing from tangency to curvature match for example) the original surface and control points remain visible along with the preview of the new surface. Is there a toggle somewhere to turn that on or off, because in R7 I've just got the surface preview showing. Thanks in advance!
The VSR software. Where is it available from, as a relative noobie to Rhino?
Great video! For some reason when I enter the matchsrf command the control points disappear even though they're turned on before I run matchsrf and they re-appear after matchsrf finishes. Any idea why I cant see them while I'm in the matchsrf interface?
Thanks! No clue on the points vanishing - I'd get in touch with the folks at McNeel via the Discourse Forum
Is there a way to make two adjacent surfaces conformal (i.e having same control points)
If they are both single span, then you can always use the ChangeDegree command and make the lower degree surface the same as the higher degree one. If they are different degree AND different spans, then you'll likely want to Rebuild them to the same parameters.
@@thirtysixverts Thank you. I was able to do it using the matchsrf command
Is there still no way to numerically analyze your matching or are you still marooned on v5 using VSR?
There is now a free user created tool called Global Edge Continuity if you're on V7, and I highly recommend it. Do a search for that on the Rhino forum and the appropriate thread should pop up. I myself still use V5/VSR for all my professional work, but use V7 when I need better mesh editing tools or quick renders with Cycles.
@@thirtysixverts Awesome. But i'm curious why do you still prefer VSR when GEC is available? is it missing features that VSR has or are you just accustomed to vsr's UI? Im sure youve tried GEC. are there differences in the results?
Lol too much Thanksgiving food. GEC is nice but it's just an analysis tool, not a modeling tool. VSR has all the core modeling tools I need for high quality surfacing.
Might be a lot to ask but maybe you could make another video on tolerances or recommend me where to look? That's interesting but in general I'm not as familiar with that.
Hey that's actually a good idea for a vid! I'll see if I can make one this week.
"one thow" your talking mm , yeah?