PIEGA 701 Wireless Gen 2 vs. BUCHARDT A700 & KEF LS60 Wireless
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- This episode is brought to you by Munich High-End 2024:
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🎥 Camera: John Darko / Olaf von Voss
🎬 Editor: John Darko
🌈 Colour: Olaf von Voss
🕺🏻 Motion GFX: John Darko
💰 Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
🎵 Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Drivers & amps
2:22 Little black box
5:03 vs. Buchardt A700
9:17 vs. KEF LS60 Wireless
👉 As seen in this video...
Piega 701 Wireless Gen 2
📖 darko.audio/2024/01/in-lisbon...
📖 piega.ch/en/products/premium-...
Inside the Buchardt A700 with Mads Buchardt
🎧 / inside-the-buchardt-a7...
KEF LS60 Wireless
🛒 howl.me/ciNO7hGnAyO
KEF R3 Meta
🛒 howl.me/ckBCuYkNBp9
NAD M66
🛒 www.audioadvice.com/nad-maste...
No, room correction software cannot fix a room’s reverb problem
📖 darko.audio/2024/02/no-room-c...
Cables and power products by AudioQuest
🛒 howl.me/ckbW8ZBoZAg
Hi-fi furniture and speaker stands by Solid Steel
🛒 howl.me/ckbW9947Hdi
Room treatment by Vicoustic
📖 vicoustic.com/
Darko.Audio may earn a small commission from items purchased via affiliate links, which are indicated with a '🛒'.
#piega #hifi #highend
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When I was able to convince my significant other 10 years ago that we need more music in our life again, we did a lot of A/B-ing and finally went with Piega Premium 501s. They have since been upgraded at marginal cost to some used Coax 70s. The bump in sound quality was so noticeable! I really love the Piegas for their relaxed sound. They are not as much in the face as some competitors and you can have a conversation aside, because they don't overemphasise voices. Perfect for bright living/listening rooms like ours. Besides, their WAF is great, too.
Piega makes great speakers. Would love to see you review some of their larger passive models.
Nice of you to give the Guv’nor a shout out. The man had the greatest music collection on the planet. RIP.
What I like most about active speakers is that they can have exciting design and a smaller volume compared to most passive speakers, and still sound really good.
Good review....I enjoy discovering new music from your reviews !!
Your Videos are truly remarkable! Great review!
Haha! I was waiting for this review for some weeks now, as I had spotted the beautiful Piegas already in some earlier videos of you. You must also review some of their passive Coax family. That's the way to go! 💪
I can see that Swiss build quality.
Thank for the review. One thing need to add : Piega with hub 8100€, Buchardt A700 with hub 6300€. More or less 30% more for the Piega....Maybe fair to talk about this cost difference for more fair comparison.
I love my silver Piega Premium 5 speakers paired with the silver NuForce DDA-100 all digital power-dac amp (speaker wires are the awesome Straight Wire Virtuoso). This combo has cured my GAS completely ;). Thanks John for finally reviewing something from Piega.
Good review. Felt like the old days.
I see a lot of diffractive edges on those piegas
Piega?! Nice. Don't see many Piega reviews
great as always
still missing the affordable produkts videos from you. for me those are the most fun!
Those who are in the market for that kind of speakers should have a look in the new Buchardt A700 LE. Gorgeous walnut cabinet and new tweeters ( not the same as this comparaison)…tough choice ;) I have the A10 with the same new tweeters. They sound great. Can not compare to ribbon except for the Martin Logan I had… not a fan of those tweeters in that case. Same price but tax and shipping included with Buchardt…
I'm curious, I owned the Buchardt A500 but the tweeter was the reason I moved on. How much of an improvement is this new tweeter?
Great review! I have been considering the Buchardt a700 as an upgrade from my smaller Buchardt s400 so it’s nice to get a comparison to some other similar options. Also like the new glasses what make/model are they?
I have a pair of piega classic 5.0's and they are sublime
For so many people these all-in-one systems will be the future. I think the only thing missing is more powerful room correction.
Thanks for a great and interesting review. Piega seems to go a bit different route than the Buchardt as well System Audio. Would be interesting to hear their story. While Buchardt and SA use same hub and amplifier, Piega uses different built in amplifier. I owe now couple of year the System Audio Legend Silverback, very happy. All the way to 17hz, can't really measure it but the lows are low :) I "downsized" equipment some years ago to get cleaner look and easy placement, but not sacrificing my VPI vinyl setup. Now trying to play around again, especially with streamers/dac etc... and SA and believe Buchardt allow that. You don't need to use the hub, you can connect via xlr or with rca adapter a preamp directly, or even a streamer/dac if volume control. You also have the option the make it passive until you wan to get rid of many cables again. Years to play and connect.
Great vid again! Would you consider doing a review on the boenicke w5? Thanks 🙏🏻
As you say, not one for the purists/old school, but you can’t knock how these type of speakers sound. Listened to a few different makes at the Bristol show and they were right up the with some very expensive kit. Great tech without the faff, life’s too short for system matching.
I was lucky to buy a pair of Piega CL 90 x on the second hand market for about 6‘000 dollars (new i think they are 26‘000). It opened a whole new world soundwise, I don’t think i will ever buy something else!
Yep, i own the Coax 711. Amps do make a difference, but piega speakers are fabulous!
The KEF LS 60 in the states can be bought for $4,999 us dollars so at the this price would the KEF be your choice. Piega 701 wireless Gen2 are now 8500 with the wireless box.
I really like these Piega's. Maybe you can test an other Swiss manufacturer Boenicke 😍
So, front and centre with these products is guarantee length. It’s apparently six years in the UK and they sell through a dealer network so, actually pretty good. Lack of Tidal Connect isn’t ideal but realistically, you can get a streamer that will fix that. I like the fact that they’re made in Switzerland rather than The PRC.
The good thing is that the technology is settling down now so that there are much longer intervals between having to upgrade for the next latest and greatest streaming service.
There really needs to be a cheaper competitor to Roon to use on this kind of technology. Roon isn’t being greedy but a bit of competition would help. If you add the cost of Roon to Tidal you are starting to have a monthly spend of around £30 which mounts up after a while.
Really hope you get a chance to review the Yamaha NS-2000A
Hey guys I have a question,what you recommend and what sounds better kef ls60 or buchardt?thanks
NICE
I have Piega C8 Ltd's and had the crossovers upgraded. They reproduce piano in the most lifelike way I've ever heard. They are a bit polite in the midbass, they don't give you the same 'punch' as others... but the mids and highs are just so good, I haven't been able to replace them. I'm in the market to change.. I wish I could trade in the C8's for this setup. My situation has changed and this would be a perfect upgrade path...
Tailoring a separates passive system for a side-by-side comparison with a powered active system is a slam dunk in my mind.
they look amazing in your flat
😂😂 your first comparison cracked me up. well argued
Hey John it’s simple physics. Cabinet volume determines the resonant frequency of the speaker. If you have 3 speakers sharing the same enclosure you can divide that by 3. The 5.25 inch drivers in Piega simply won’t reach as low as the 6.5 inch drivers in the buchardt. I suspect there is some DSP cleverness going on here whereby they are achieving reasonable low end response by either reducing the response above 100Hz or boosting the response below it. Either way the technique flattens the output by artificially flattening the output curve. Even with this approach you still need multiple drivers to achieve a decent output. The first time I saw this was in a Sonos move which uses exactly the same approach except it has a single driver in a sealed cabinet. One the output hits 70% the low end is capped below 100Hz. This uses something called a compressor filter, which is fairly self explanatory. My guess is the piega uses a compressor filter above 100Hz to make the speaker sound bassier. The drivers don’t look expensive they look like ones made by peerless speakers in china. Incidentally the PMC prodigy uses a $5 driver from the same company. Unbelievable I know but happy to share the info. The more expensive PMC use £200 drivers from Kartesian.
In summary as the yanks say about car engines “there is no substitute for cubes” (cubic inches) it’s simpler and more effective to use bigger drivers in a bigger cab than artificially trying to get the same result in a smaller space. It’s called Hoffman’s iron law, you can only have 2 of the following 3 items, small cabinet, low volume, loud. You can have loud and low but you can’t have small volume. The wave length you can achieve inside a box is determined by the physical size of the box.
The buchardt use something called cardiod dispersion on their rear 2 6 inch woofers. This cancels some of the frequency going backwards (low frequency is basically omnidirectional as I am sure you know). This is using phase cancellation to eliminate waves traveling backwards hitting the rear wall and then coming back slightly out of synch with front wave. This creates group delay, which makes the speakers sound blurred. This is what poorly implemented ports do. You say the Buchardts sound punchier, I would say that is almost entirely down to this design implementation. It’s used in professional sound set ups on stage. The fact that the piegas totally lack this technology plus their smaller drivers would be the difference in the low end punch. Smaller drivers are also better at mid range so hence the crispness in the mid is due to flatter response of smaller drivers. Anyway I’ve rambled too much. Really enjoy your videos keep them coming! Iain
Prefer old school approach. In that way you're sure to get all the features you require for your system as you mix and match components.
Neat speakers. They look very well-made.
I think this is the first speaker that I have seen where I actually like the grills
Very interesting! I'd love to try them out. I went from Dynaudio passive setup since many years to -> Buchardt A500 -> Genelec 8341 -> Genelec 8361 and of course it's a neverending story :D The Buchards in my opinion really lack in the treble...
I think Piega us so under-reviewed (beyond Pursuit Perfect System's older review of some passives). Speaking of beautiful Swiss future-fi, any chance you might get your hands on Goldmund's newly announced package?
Cable vomit!!! What a wonderful description!!! I used to have a stack of gear that could hide my green inflexible Tara Labs Quantum CD interconnects. I picked up six pair decades ago on sale. Now I have far fewer components thus interconnects and speaker wires are hard to hide. However, I'm not parting with Dad's circa 1954-55 JBL's for wireless, at least not yet. Your music sounds wonderful through them by the way.
Paul H.
Huntington Beach, CA
USA
Time to upgrade the Sonos Five's... Those KEFs would go very nicely in my lounge
those doorstops are adorable, i use them myself :P
some preamps are just too light and need some weight added to not move about when you plug things in or bump it.
but those doorstops are so large and not more than a 1.2kg, now i use tungsten cubes, only need a 1.5" one for a kg, and you can rubber on the bottom, or plain to get some heat dissipation/cooling if you need that.
i know a headphone amp that is class A that i own that is scorching in the summer.
Would like to know more about the black box and the app.
The software is very important in this kind of product and is often overlooked.
€7500 and no tidal connect?
Ya that’s weird eh? I have years of playlists built on tidal ….
Excellent review but one would think the lip that comes out of the box all the way around the edges, would have very detrimental effects on soundstage. Interesting that wasn't noted. however.
I personally prefer the A700s absolute minimal appearance, especially with the reclining angle. Lovely matte finish too, compared to the kind of industrial looking Piega’s. Also, the A700s are getting upgrade kits available: new tweeters and new amps/dacs/electronics which you can replace yourself, later this year I believe…
What does top end extension mean?
Any subwoofer compatibility?
For some time now I like the idea of active speakers, but not sure about wireless connection issues that may happen , or how about replacing damaged parts in the future, will each company supports those models and can have spare parts for those speakers. B&O is also an option since they claims that still support they products and even upgrade their parts, but still in very premium category and also without useful connection like hdmi arc or line input. I like clean minimal design but I’m suspicious with those active products for how long they will be functional, seamlessly working and in case of damage can be repaired
Never had connection problems with Wisa and imaging and soundstage is spot on in stereo and sub integration. Full support for Ultra High End
Nice speakers 😊😊
I have the System Audio Silverback 7.2 wall speakers. Even if the SA speakers win a lot of Eisa Awards for active speakers I see no big reviews. I can only say they sound amazing in all regards. The Silverback 60 would be the comparizon here. The Piega missed on Wisa even when they have Wisa on the Ace range. Active with Wisa is the way to go.
Currently WiSA is the way to go for wireless systems with low latency and scaling up from stereo to 7.1 surround with some mix and match so you are not locked in to one source as systems that go their own way. Wi-fi 7 might change that. WiSA is not the end of the road. Not all WiSA transmitters work with all WiSA speakers and getting information out of manufacturers and dealers is next to impossible.
There was a test by a UK reviewer. The Connect box can be a limitation for the speakers compared to analog input. The Primare preamp with wisa does it better. Compared to the Platin hub on another speaker brand from Germany also running wisa.
Have you tried it out on those speakers? Using analog input?
Love my A700's not so much the black box and remote ......but the speakers are great :)
Really? What about the remote? I personally find it being the most satisfying to use from any remotes I've ever touched in my life😅
It would be great to hear your opinion on a budget end, but also extremely versatile speakers A48 from AudioPro.
While they have Spotify & Tidal Connect, Airplay2 ,ARC HDMI, RCA and Tonsil imput, they still cost about 1100 € for a pair. That's a barging! I wonder what's your opinion on sound quality though...
Now that the BACCH-ORC is out I really wonder how those comparisons would pan out with the in-ear microphones and all the wizard magic DSP that seems to be ground braking. If anyone, you should be the perfect candidate to “report” about this and I can’t wait if you do! Anyways those Piegas are very sleek looking speakers indeed.
Yay this video 👏🙏 might be a stupid question but u did give the ls60 some room when comparing? not right next to the Piega like in the video I mean. (interested in the ls60 here so really like comparisons)
Not a stupid question. They were only put next to each other to shoot the b-roll.
LS60 price dropped to £3999; they where £5999. They work with television as a source but do not scale up to surround sound. If you are certain to only want a stereo solution they are easy to find on demonstration. Many of the alternatives can be harder to get a demonstration of.
Buchardt offer a trial period.
DSP room correction and speakers where all inputs sources are converted to digital to have the corrections applied may not have the low latency needed when connected to a TV or play back video. Having HDMI and/or fibre optic connections is not enough. Some manufacturers have gone beyond WiSA with a system of their own but you then have to buy everything from the single source. WiSA does offer some support for mix and match of components that should work together (reports suggest that B&O Theatre can't pair to Buchardt A500 and some suppliers of WiSA transmitters are only tested with B&O speakers).
Annnnnnnd there is the Buchardt A700 LE now with a vastly improved tweeter and new mastertunings.
What I do know of ribbon sound is that I do love them, but for now I am eyeballing the Buchardts.
Getting in expensive territory!(inverted snob?)
Small mid-range + ribbon twitter = tiny soundstage. of course it was going to suffer a much smaller soundstage than the Kef with it's 6.5" dedicated mid-range driver. Not to mention, you can feed it more power to each individual driver in bi-amp mode. This would have been a more fair comparison comparing tower to tower, each with the same number of drivers. The KEF R11 Meta would trounce it in everything but the high-end. But that's because of the strengths of ribbon.
I have got the a500. Ive not heard better than expected/average sound from them.
My 2¢ which is only worth .013 € 😂. I find much better flexibility with speaker wires than power cables. To me this solution is no better or worse than running 2 wires + 1 plug (assuming you purchase an integrated streamer amp) = 3 cables, 3 power cables = 3 cables. Therefore speaker vs power cables I say speaker wins, especially if you're using filtration (I do). So it really comes down to convenience and quality, not ergonomics IMO.
Active speakers enable the designer to tweak the electronics, drivers and cabinet that passive solution can never do. This usually results in a system that for a given performance works out cheaper in cost and space. With passive speakers you have to connect long cables from the source (amplifier) to them. Active speakers require the signal cable and a power supply. Wireless speakers only the short mains lead. The hub approach for connection to analogue and digital inputs can also be hidden away more than an amplifier that needs good ventilation. Streaming DSP active speakers only need power cables and connection to wi-fi for streaming services and/or a wireless transmitter for other sources (television and computer)
who doesnt like to tinker - i cant imagine someone spending $7,000 who doesnt tinker - the non tinkering crowd me thinks spends a lot less on a system - i cant imagine me not tinkering to some extent - thats what makes me into this hobby - the fact that i can tinker - long live tinkering
The Buchardt have master tuning. This is like an infinite number of tweaking.
You might find endless fun trying to get the best amplifier to speaker match for a given budget. After a while I went for active speakers and just listened to the results compared to everything else on offer and that cut out the need to tweak differences that seldom where clearly better across all sources.
Piega is very special company
welp. I'm sold. I need a new speaker fix, and choosing a new amp has me spinning.
All I really need is these ribbon tweeter beauties.
The Mrs. will not be pleased...
Go straight to the Coax line and get coax ribbon tweeter/mid driver awesomeness 🙂
Piega with a difficult industrial design. The A700 with an modern clean and friendly look.
Im kinda worried about the piegas magnets being able to damage creditcards and electronics…
I would like to see reviews on Graphic Equalizers, McIntosh has one nobody did a review on. DBX Pro Audio also makes Equalizers. Some people from the 70s, 80s and 90s would love to view Videos like this.
The piegas recesed speaker mounting choice is a disaster for refractions, and lean voicing is uncompetitive.
Damn...those Swedish speakers are gorgeous. Just wish I could afford them...
Swiss or Danish?
They will drop in value like a brick. Build quality of piega is reaaly good. But i dont like the sound.
Holy shite . Pull that term out of the dusty closet . Fletcher Munson…. I guess I am not the trivia freak I feared I was …. Seeing as I hadn’t heard that term since selling Concord cassette decks in the 80’s!!!!!!!
dinky warranty on those amps is trash. amp dies. dead speaker.
Dead amp in a passive system means getting another amp. Most active speakers allow for the removal of the amplifier electronics to return to the manufacturer for repairs. It is seldom the case that both speakers need repairs where a failed amplifier sent off to repair means neither passive speaker working.
SAF
Speaker Acceptance Factor
When you tell your wife these things are old junk you had in school because the other stuff broke and these still work. You don't want to pay for the stuff out these days anyway.
You honestly are sitting there believing she hasn't lied every day of your marriage over what she's bought:? Seriously ???
Cable vomit .... awesome!!!!!
Of course, in reality, the Piega 701 is not wireless! You need 3 mains cables. 1 to connect the left speaker to a mains outlet. 1 to connect the right speaker to a mains outlet. The third to connect the ‘black box’ to a mains outlet. So, unless you are happy to entertain extension cables and mains strips, you will ideally need mains outlets close to where you plan to position the Piega speakers, to minimise ‘cable vomit’. You did point out that to achieve the same functionality using the Kef R3 Meta, would require a streamer, DAC and an amp. Driving the cost to €13000! That’s where your ‘cable vomit’ enters the equation. You didn’t make clear what amp, DAC and streamer you used to make up that €13000.
To level up the playing field, ditch your amp, DAC and streamer for a premium streaming integrated amp, there is a plethora of models from which to choose. The Kef R3 Meta would make for an excellent stable mate with the Hegal H190V. This combination would undercut the price of the Piega. If you squeeze. Your bank account that little bit harder, and maximise any local promotions, the Kef R3 Metas and Hegel H390 would make for killer bed partners, difficult to rival within that €7500 price range and would require mo more cable than the Piega. In fact, either of those combinations would be a more flexible option than the Piega. 1 mains outlet needed to power the amp, and 2 speaker cables allowing you to optimally position the Kef R3 Metas.
Most of all, enjoy the music! b
There's nobody here watching these videos that doesn't know what is meant by a wireless speaker so no need to waste our time there.
Also, there's no need to waste our time simply because you did not pay attention in the video during the part where darko said what amp he was using.
Some self-editing would do you good.
Just an observation; surely viewers of this channel are 'generally' audiophiles, and as such are of the tweaker persuasion. Buying an all-in-one active speaker doesn't really fit in with their modus operandi. They don't want simplicity or one purchase and done. As I said, just an observation.
I'm in the tinkerer camp, however the family TV in the living room has a very nice pair of KEF LS wireless II.
Not every system in the house has the same constraints and requirements.
I get it, but viewers of this channel are also aware of John's penchant for his self-proclaimed Future Fi !!. I think it's good to know what options are out there, be it Hi or Future Fi !
You're probably right... but I'm a subscriber and run LS60's with dual KC62's because I love the sound and simplicity. Minimalist.
Yea, maybe not future proof but technology is a beautiful thing.
I used to think an audiophiles' prime interest was in the music and aimed to get the best audio experience. I listen to music, not equipment.
I soon got tired of trying to get the optimum amplifier to speaker match which seldom was anything more than just different subjected opinion across a range of audio sources. Active speakers removed one stage of tweaking. DSP, and streaming built in usually means fewer boxes and smaller in size for the similar levels of performance. Still plenty to tweak in the app as well as picking the best method of wireless connection. The pit falls to avoid are just different.
word of the day: "mellifluous"
/mɪˈlɪflʊəs/
adjective
(of a sound) pleasingly smooth and musical to hear.
"her low mellifluous voice"