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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
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=Summary=-
Modded Minecraft is known for its Open Source Nature. Mods like Create, Alex's Caves and so many more Minecraft Mods are build on it beeing free. But recently fellow creators have been paywalling mods. But is this actually legal? And what does Mojang have to say about this?
#gaming #minecraft #moddedminecraft
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[IMPORTANT]
Jetstar isnt the only one doing this and this video isnt targeted towards him.
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I hope you pitch that solution to Modrinth. Its a good idea
@@Cygnus_MC yeah. Theres also the Orespawn/Danger Zone guy, but I don’t know what’s worse. Making part of the community hate the game for a shitty mod or making a shitty game based off a paywalled mod while trying to sue a child
@@Thunderbolt18367 the latter, the latter is so much worse
@@Cygnus_MC
Oh yeah…..now that I really think about it….The Orespawn guy is just much worse. At least the most Jetstar did was put a bad taste in people’s mouths when it comes to Minecraft. The Orespawn man is just pathetic
@@Thunderbolt18367 to be fair to jet, he did reach out to me about the issue. And he's working to to the mod better
Jetstarfish is a culprit of this. He straight made a shitty video about Minecraft’s progression issues and makes some extremely bullshit points just to sell his mod that basically has 5 or so features.
This video is literally targeting JetStarfish lmao
@@johferson09
Damn.
@@johferson09 its not, i dont target anyone. But he was one of the people that got me thinking
@@Cygnus_MC kinda thought it was lol. Don't really think there was any other recent discussion related to this subject then with Jet
This behaviour has existed LONG before Jetstarfish. Remember what happened to Orespawn and why it is now obsolete and universally hated?
technically most of minecraft players are kids with no money so i feel like using ads on sites IS a much better solution
Kids spend an absolute ton on microtransactions
How did they get the game in the first place ?
Probably the same way they will afford the microtransactions
@@Alex-ck5gf they stealed moms credit card
@@Alex-ck5gf you know, most of kids never pay for anything, they pi-khm-ra-khm-te it.
@@diablense So then they can continue to do that, let adults pay :)
So whats the issue then... kids can obtain it free in that way and adults can pay ?
@@Dehhoy can do the same to support developers
Mojang: No, you can't monetize your mods !
Also Mojang: Haha, marketplace go brrr !
Also Mojang: monetizing your mods is fine, selling them is not
technically add on devs get some share of it too and Mojang doesn't wanna get in trouble protecting someone selling a mod
They probably only care about it on Java and not the Marketplace because on Bedrock you have to buy Minecoins to get mods which gets Mojang money
@@YourNormalProgram greedy af, mojang is supported by microsoft themselves
@@that_guy1211bro they’re a business of course they’re gonna want to make more money
This does not only happen to Mods, but also to texturepacks and maps which is very lame in my opinion
Paid mods is a slippery slope that I don't think people understand.
When you think of paid mods, you think of the massive sprawling modpacks with custom maps and custom crafting and custom blah blah blah. 15 bucks for all that? Sounds great!
But what about when people begin selling their mods individually? JEI for 2 bucks. Complimentary shades for a buck 50. Farmers delight? Another t bucks. Create? Well, that'd really hard to make, may as well sell it for 10!
We'll be looking at modpacks costing the same amount as the base game, all because modders are beginning to treat Minecraft as a way to make money rather than a fun Gane they want to expand on, which is ironically exactly what the 2023 EULA aimed to fix
Btw, screw Rock Solid to the highest extent. He's a complete grifter who outright lies about things to get engagement on Twitter then reigns ignorance when you calm him out.
I don't think it would be a slippery slope in that way. Paid mods already exist, and this hasn't happened. The reason is that the development environment is very open, and there are thousands of passionate people who just want to make things.
Of the four example mods you gave, three have the MIT License in their current version and Complimentary Shaders has permissive redistribution. If any of those went behind a paywall there would be dozens of copyright free forks the next day.
I generally don't like paid mods, but that is for different reasons. If mod developers want to charge, they need to be willing to provide a higher degree of technical support, quality assurance, and long term updates. That isn't generally how mods are handled right now, and so I do not think it makes sense to charge for them.
then people would get mad at those developers charging for such little content and not buy it and the mod simply wouldnt make money, or someone would just start distributing it anyway and people would use it and the mod wouldnt make money, just because a mods put up for money doesnt mean anyone will buy it
If developers work hard on those tools I don’t see why they can’t be paid.
$2 for JEI with consistent support is definitely worth it.
@@Alex-ck5gf Until youre spending 40 bucks on a modpack
the minecraft eula is not legally binding. it is not illegal to break the eula (provided you aren't breaking other laws while breaking the eula). if you make a paid mod, mojang can take away your minecraft account, but it is a lie to say that is illegal.
it depends. if you use any Mojang owned resource to make it, it could be illegal, because you do something without the authorization to do so
I was shocked when I saw a mod dev do this. As someone currently trying to get a fresh grad job, having a mod will be great for my resume. If I move on in life and don't maintain a mod, I'd open a Patreon so ppl can donate me and "motivate" me to maintain it again. But, I prefer putting my stuff open source so anyone can take over my work. I do hope many more devs will fork some of the most used mods in not ported versions.
as a mod developer I absolutely hate seeing paywalled mods, especially if the mod wasn't coded by the person selling it (I'm looking at you JetStarfish). Pay modders to work for you if they're cool with that but never charge for it to be played because at the end of the day Minecraft isn't your product. I think this should be a general rule for all of game modding. I also keep seeing people go "well Mojang has the marketplace, why is this wrong?" the difference is that the marketplace is official and legal
So, if a person approached you and offered 1k to make a personal mod with the stipulation that you couldn't post it, you wouldn't do it?
If you accept, you're paywalling the mod.
@@dragonproductions236
"Support the dev unless the dev asks you to support them to access the mod then they're a piece of shit" heres you defending devs and then the moment an actual dev disagrees with your dogshit take you argue him what are you huffing toluene?
@@dragonproductions236 charging for the work one time isn’t the same as charging for the product unless it’s this one specific case but I’d excuse it because obviously the intent of the buyer is to get a custom mod that only they can have instead of sharing for free. there’s no way around that unless I caved into doing free work somehow. if you mean that I couldn’t post my mod but they (a youtuber, or something) could, then no because I don’t like big names overshadowing developers
your feelings are irrational
@@Fire_Axus as far as im concerned they’re justified
mods should allays be free to download as modding wouldn't be possible without the many volunteers that first developed platforms like fabric and forge.
However, mods can (and in my opinion, should) have donation links and maybe even a paywall for early access versions of mods.
I was actually thinking about that "pay what you want" model when downloading a model, i think its the best model for free projects.
And they have on patreon
@@limesime7156 honestly, who wouldnt
I disagree as a developer. When you develop something, you have the option to put a license on it. One of those licenses is the GPL-v3, which can force you to make every mod you write using the Fabric API, or Yarn bindings, etc, completely free and open-source. The Fabric developers intentionally put the Apache License 2.0 (a “do what you want, make money off of it even, just add this copyright notice when redistributing and you’re good” type of license) probably because they are in support of developers being able to monetize their work.
@@d-o-n-u-t honestly being a developer doesnt matter that much in this context, its just another hobby/job, everyone knows what is like to work and be rewarded, regarthless of being a dev or not.
Also, i did not say fabric devs didnt allow monetization.
My point is that modding woulnt be possible without the people who made the mod loaders.
My point is that modding isnt the same as making a game from scratch, no matter how good your mod is, it wouldnt be possible without the devs making the game and devs making the loaders and APIs and because of that it shouldnt be put behind a paywall.
I also think donations should be much more incentivised towards devs
@@bacalhau_seco There are lots of paid products and services made out of free and open source tools/services/apis, not only in minecraft or videogames but also software in general. Making something using free stuff doesn't mean the product should also be free.
If we look at current paid mod services, like the minecraft marketplace or the premum mods in ark survival ascended, we can see how monetisation kills creativity and exspacally small mods are getting killed of.
Yea no, you’re just wrong buddy
@@emilydavidson8844 you didnt bring any arguments just said no and you think that gives you any ground?
@@PraiseTheBoi how does monetization kill off creativity
Monetization doesn't kill off creativity, it's predatory marketing that kills it off. For the marketplace, to make money, they need to dangle flashy features in front of you to make you want to buy it, rather than make a genuine good mod.
@@emilydavidson8844 if the only aim is to get money, they will jsut develolp as quickly as possible the current most popular thing and sell it, that can then turn into a problem for visibility on the genuinely good mods.
My stance is: shouldn't cost anything, but donations should be allowed. Also official collaborations with mod and fan game devs should be more common in the gaming space in general, the Fazbear Fan Initiative is a good example (even if as a whole it's gone not so great). Officially making mods or fan games purchasable is really good, because it provides a legal way to sell that stuff, both the dev and game creator(s)/company get paid, and everyone is happy. The Bedrock Marketplace would be perfect, if there was primary high quality stuff on there, but it feels like there isn't as much quality assurance as would be perfect for it, and it's only on Bedrock, so it kinda doesn't work for a significant chunk of the community.
But that's my stance on it. Also technically speaking breaking the EULA isn't a crime, can't land you in jail or anything, but Mojang can sue you over it. So READ IT IF YOU DO ANYTHING IN RELATION TO IT
the problem is that you can make money off of it, so why put in more effort? Especially since most minecraft players are kids. The only reason java skews older is because it takes some effort to set up modding - it's *vastly* easier than it used to be, but you still have to install some programs and troubleshoot some stuff, and kids don't do that (whether it be due to ignorance or something else).
just look at the marketplace on badrock. It's all the same copy/pasted bullshit with little to no value at all - even on FTB's page.
but kids buy that shit all the time since it's there and they have no standards.
i don't want java to be infected by the same plague of garbage (especially since mod devs drop support for old versions *way* faster now) because it would ruin the modding scene entirely.
QA could help, but it takes time & money so everyone automates it (i think that's one reason so much bullshit gets onto the badrock marketplace - even stolen texture packs & shit).
My preferred way would be
1. Provide mod for free
2. Open a patreon or kofi for those who want to provide a "tip" for the mod
3. Different tiers would allow buyers to access early builds of the new mod and potentially add ideas into consideration
Now this is perfect imo, and some people do this as well!
i think this is what eightsidesquare does, he makes his mods early access first before making it public; the best kind of compensation
paying for mods and resource packs is a relatively recent and cancerous growth upon the game, turning java into bedrock isnt particularly appealing, so i totally support piracy of them. want money? start a patreon or get a job
A pay what you want system in my opinion is a good idea. If I had the ability to (financially) I would love to be able to throw my favorite mod developers some compensation. Great video!
The only bad part for me is that most of the paid mods are also closed source, so you cannot really know what you are dealing with and no option for another developer to implement or fork the project for example to make modpacks
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Best take here for real fuck all that ya everytime I boot minecraft they are mining crypto on my pc or someshit lmaoooo
can still do pay what you want with open source. just dont support people who build it themselves or use builds from other people
Mods should NEVER be paid.
unless its a optional donation to support the devs to who have spare money laying around
Bedrock marketplace go brr
@@raisin896 You are saying this cuz you are broke💀
@@wowutisforevermarketplace is optional, you don't need to use marketplace to get mods on bedrock
MOD DEVs are the ones who created the mods, THEY get to decide what to do with it. And ALSO, bedrock edition REQUIRES you to pay for mods. Idiot.
@@Xinert do you know what it can lead to if paid mods will become legal? Simple mods like new chests for 10 bucks, jei for 20, shit, even mods like create will go for the same price as game itself or even higher. Now lets see how your "non-broke" pocket will vanish into oblivion in this reality
Tldr: Paywalling bad, donations good
You should not ever put a mod behind a paywall as it kills the whole idea of modding. It always been a thing that people do from passion and want to share their takes and ideas on the original games instead making it a living on it as a first thing. Sure it is great that nowadays some people can earn a livable wage from modding certain games, Minecraft being a prime example, through ad revenue and donations, but just because of that, it doesnt mean people are obliged to pay for your time spent cuz you decided to base your entire financial well being on something so fluent and unstable as modding. Another thing is that Minecraft made whole companies be created that solely focus on making mods or hosting servers for it, but again, their costs and business decisions are not responsibility of the players. If I find your mod cool and I want to help you via donating I will, but if you forcing me to with some half assed arguments like oooo I spent so much time on it therefore I demand $$$, then f*ck off Ill be first to pirate it or skip the entry all together instead funding career of someone like that.
Oh there is a mod that was free for a long time which was Jurassiccraft but in may 2020 the owner made every update since then paid and the mod went down in quality to. A lot of people in dinosaurs mc modding community calls the mod a scam now a days
What even happened to Jurassic Craft? Back then it had the best animations, and the best models
I've taken a peek at current versions and man, the new dinosaurs look terrible, and the animation quality has gone down to the point of being barely animated, how did this happen
If Modrinth adds a popup screen that the mod developer can turn on, every time someone downloads the mod, they will be asked to donate to the mod developer. That would be a good middle ground between paywalls and just making it freely available.
Like the "pay your own price" I’ve seen on several websites before, that would be great
you and i know very well that nobody is going to donate without any benefit for themselves because there is an expectation that mods should be free because they've always been free. mods shouldn't have a paywall but pretending like asking for a donation works is delusional
@@fahimhussain1918itd ask after it downloaded. Also if you think about it people will donate if the mod is quality. It remains optional. Its like tipping a waitress or waitor for good service. People who apreciate the mod will donate because its supporting the development of a good mod.
@@fahimhussain1918 Yes, that is true. However, the amount will be a bit bigger than if you have to click a link and go to a separate website. Maybe give them something for donating. Modrinth can add a leaderboard for donating and they can add badges that will show on their Modrinth account when they hit that mark. Having something to flex would go a long way to get someone to donate. They can also maybe add somthing to showing in-game also, even though I don't know how that will be possible without making a mod that all Modrinth users have to use, and that will be bad.
The main issue is, regardless of what the discussion turns into, nothing changes that at some point mods WERE free. I think people wouldnt have as much of a problem of if when mods first flourished, Mojang integrated a paid system and embraced the community, especially if they used old youtubers like yogscast etc in branding with certain mods.
Why not just have all the mods be free, but allow donations for the developer to be able to continue developing the mod?
Like, it wouldn't go against EULA, since the mod is free for anyone to take. But considering it's time, and resource consuming, a developer can ask for donations to speedup or even continue refining the mod.
Those who don't have money, aren't forced to pay to get the full mod. They can just download and enjoy it. But those who also feel sympathetic towards the effort of the mod creator, could donate to help them out in their development.
Because donations don't work. Sure it's there, but everybody wants everything for free.
@@futuremapper_ Then the mod developer can just stop producing the mod. It's that simple. Community isn't obligated to care for the creator, nor creator care for the community.
Me when I see doctor4t creating an entire different game just to lock it behind a paywall
was that paywalled? i assumed it just wasnt out
@@yes.elevens3688 nope. The only free mod rat has made(as far as I know) is Effective
How have I not seen anyone mention that sure, we don't like paid mods on Java, but Bedrock's entire monetization model is by making paid mods/texture packs? Microsoft/Mojang's actual stance seems to be "You can't make money from your mods... unless we get a cut off the top." Which is way scummier when you realize that. I agree that it would be nice for all mods to be free with voluntary donations. But Mojang/Microsoft don't seem to agree with that- they want that juicy revenue from those kids that see bad bedrock ports of java mods for 500 minecoins and ask their mom to buy it for them to play for 20 minutes.
as a bedrock player i hate that java gets all the coop mods while bedrock gets micro transactions shoved down their throat
and it sucks more that not only is java only on pc, but its also a little expensive
it sucks
pojav launcher is a thing for mobile at least, but mod support isn't quite 100%
You should make a video about the current Replay Mod situation, where Replay Mod hasn't updated to 1.21 except for betas, but you need to pay for access to these betas and a lot of people are stuck on 1.20 because there isn't a viable alternative and they reasonably don't want to pay.
This is how Replay Mod has always been, it takes forever to get out of beta
@@BryanLu0 good to know. It just hurts especially hard for 1.21 I guess
i have nothing to say that hasntalready been said, so... donation buttons are fine, paywalls are not!
hell no we shouldn't pay for mods. encourage people to support the mod creator? sure. gotta support the devs. but putting up a mod behind a paywall? hell naw.
Exactly what I’m saying
@@BootlegGremlin You are just saying this cuz you are broke💀
@Xinert even if you aren't broken why do you need to pay for something that you can only use on one game, and why should you be inconvenienced with something like that when you just want to use a mod that fits that category. It's like some of the mods for skyblock when I played, you can find an alternative for pretty much every paid mod (cheat or not), but if you wanted to try that mod for some aspect of it even before purchasing it you just can't. I think patrion and pro versions make sense, but why should you have to pay even 5 dollars for a single addition to an already paid game. [bedrock intensifies]
@@SuperDominicS I dont see your point "why do you need to pay for something you can only use on one game". By this logic why are you buying the game in the first place💀 The only reason we buy a game is for fun. And this could be applied to mods: more fps = more fun, more content = more fun. If it werent for mods nobody would enjoy Minecraft and thats why we need to respect mod creators, they are reason we still play java, not mojang. Like bedrock is more stable than java unmodded. At this point we take mods for granted, it shoudnt be this way.
Edit: I also forgot many of the alternatives, SURPRISE has malware, spyware, RAT. Also I know its pretty rare but some of the alternatives are made by youtubers who dont need the money, or by people who just want to be the hero "THAT MADE A PAID MOD INTO A FREE MOD" just for clout.
"Support the dev unless the dev asks you to support them to access the mod then they're a piece of shit"
early access paywall then releasing for free is fine imo, dev gets support + bugtesters and less bugs in end product
In my eyes as someone who makes Add-Ons for Bedrock edition, it's not needed to pay for our work. Yes, we want to earn some money for the work we put in, but for most hobbyists, as we call them, the goal is just money, and if they don't earn what they expected, they simply abandon their projects, and I can understand a part of that. I have a pretty large and awesome community, and I get asked so many times if they can support me with money or if there is a version of my work that's paid, and I respond with "no" because for me, personally, I don't need their money to keep doing what I love. I've hard some arguments about this but it's mainly that I want to make something "good" that's free, and that I won't be controlled by money. There are a selected amount of people who disagree with me, and I get that.
We have the Marketplace, but it's only for partners, which at this time are companies and studios. We as hobbyists upload our projects to MCPEDL, which is owned by CurseForge, so we use CFs reward program to generate revenue. It's great for creators that're big, but not for the ones who's starting out and it kinda demotivates them. MCPEDL had a wave of creators using ad sites like Linkvertise and Boostellar, but people moved away from them since the reward program with MCPEDL x CurseForge. It's always nice to have a Ko-Fi and let your fans know that they can support you that way, instead of locking a good mod behind money, because every mod developer has a fanbase that wants to support them and help out, and that's awesome!
So cool to have someone from the bedrock community here with actual experience! Thanks for your comment!
@@Cygnus_MC Thank you! ^^ Bedrock community is also really cool, but we just can't do as much as mods can because Bedrock has its own Add-On engine (I think it's that). I've seen it all the time where people get the idea that Add-Ons, skins, maps, etc. are paid on Bedrock but we do have third party sites where stuff is free. Marketplace won't stop me as a hobbyist to continue to enjoy my bobby because I love what I make for Bedrock edition as well as my player base. I am all for my players, and I do or add what they think is best, like tweaking something to make it balanced or adding a QoL feature. I don't want to make a thing that no one will enjoy, so I engage with my community a lot to take in their feedback, because for me, it's all about them, and not me or what I want the project to be (adding stuff everyone will dislike), and overall, it made me stand out and people love me. It's always nice to give something back to the people that enjoy your creations.
@@XxPoggyisLitxXI didn’t know curseforge owned mcpedl
@@C0Durp Yep! ^^ It's more so Overworlf which owns both CF and MCPEDL, but it's mostly seen as "CF owns MCPEDL" :P
paywalling mods for java would is absurd and terrible for the space, if you were looking to get paid the bedrock marketplace is literally right there, and you will just make more money out of it simply because the version is availiable everywere outside of pcs, a paywalled mod in pc is never a good idea, first off you literally wont get nearly as many people using it, cause we all know, we pc people are cheapskates that get everything on sale, you should have know what space you were signing in for whent you started learning java modding.
This & mods locked behind discord need to be eradicated. Its extremely problematic.
i personally hate having to pay for software in general, and its mostly because i don't have my own money, but when i do, i decide to spend it into something better instead of paying whatever paywall i encounter. as you said, money is very important, and i dont think paying for softwares, which is not even a physical thing, is worth it my money. HOWEVER, i think games are an exception. games are a work of art that i think it deserves it being consumed and purchased just like movies. and also, i already paid for minecraft, so why the heck i would pay for a mod? this ain't a DLC either
I'm surprised you didn't give high resolution resource packs an honorable mention here. I've always wondered how those are considered fine, but people worry about people paywalling mods.
Honestly probably the biggest difference is that if you can afford a higher end pc you can probably afford to pay for your 1028x1028 texture pack or whatever. Still seen some people charge for even the 64x64 versions though which is weird.
There's also the case of mods who put beta's as a reward for supporters
A big example of this are the abnormal mods which are first in beta for patreons but do release later for the public
I think this is fine way as well it doesn't leave it up as much on whether people being kind or not which can be a gamble as a developer but it also isn't having as much behind a paywall considering what is being paywalled is the beta, which is worse version of the final result (needs bug fixing and so on) and eventually everyone will be able to download the mod with 0 problem once it finally releases
I like this solution a lot and always have its just a trust issue that the beta will actually release at least somewhat as planned obv its a beta shit changes so I think you gotta build some rep before this really works but def a good way to bring some cash in
I feel like you shouldn’t have to pay for mods since nobody is forcing you to make these and before you bring up Minecraft Marketplace the bedrock marketplace completely allows it paid content from an official Microsoft service that’s why it doesn’t go against the EULA it would be different if it was on patreon or another third party website
Modders should be paid if they want to be paid. Mods shouldn't always be free if it infringes on creators ability to create. Don't wanna pay for a mod? Don't buy it. Don't want to support paid developers? Don't pay them. You'll still have your version of Minecraft to play because 'Minecraft' is not the product, the mod is. The EULA isn't really legally binding to the degree this video makes it out to be. Just don't use MC assets in your mod and it becomes a lot more likely it's perfectly legal. 'Slippery slope' arguments are a fallacy.
6:12 that's because the "paid" license can be easily obtained for free from Moulberry if you ask him in Discord or somewhere else. So actually this is just a recommendation to buy the commercial licence.
I've never had an ad actually influence me to buy something
In my opinion, I think it wouldn't hurt to support the creator of the mod we enjoy
It's fine for them to put a donation link as a button in the game.
But putting mods behind a paywall is probably something I'm against and probably everyone else too
Reminds me of that physics mod that paid drm on it and wouldn’t launch if it didn’t detect you had a subscription to their Patreon.
I like working on mods as FOSS. In fact, I kinda think Minecraft's gotten to a stable enough state that it itself should probably be made FOSS and left open to the community for continued development, because recent changes have been kinda mid and definitely within the scope of mods. For me, the "compensation" I get from working on the mod I work on is having visible commits on my GitHub and a project I can talk about openly in job interviews without worrying about NDAs etc.
But yeah, it would be nice to earn a living from modding as opposed to it _having_ to be a passion project, like most Open Source projects. Which is why we need to campaign for UBI to be a thing so developers can actually keep making the software that runs the world without having to worry about making enough to eat!
paid mods should not exist for anything.
the entire point of modding is that people do it for the love of the game/fun of it, and the last time people tried paid mods it did not work at all and got quickly reversed. Monetization also stifles creativity since people just copy/paste the same trends to make a quick buck (hell, look at FTB's badrock marketplace account vs. the stuff they make on java).
i think part of the unspoken agreement between modders and players is that it's a hobby or side project, and as such can be abandoned at any time. Mod devs should open-source it or whatever if they do abandon it, but at the same time we can't expect them to keep going forever.
i got into the game through mods (wouldn't play it at all without them), and if everything was paywalled i'd have never gotten into minecraft and made my modpacks. My packs are still pretty niche, but i take a while to make them just because i like doing it. Updates are pretty slow due to that, but since they're niche i haven't had anyone asking for updates or ports or whatever the hell.
but i've made like $30 off of the CF ads over the near-decade i've made modpacks. It's obviously not that much, but it's still pretty cool that i got some free pocket change off of something i made for the hell of it.
if devs wanna set up a patreon or ko-fi or whatever that's fine (hell, i have one for my modpacks lol) - but charging for mods goes against the entire point of modding. If you wanna make a career out of your ability to code, just become a game dev or get a programming job.
Marketplace be like:
I think theres also a 4. Option. Like aeronautics does it. Dont ask for donations but develop the mod in there own freetime next to a Job while not Stating a Release date and not creating any Kind of time Limits or Pressure for the devs.
Literaly make it a Hobby which hopefully a lot of people can enjoy and Profit from.
Thx dev Teams
Problem for me with pay-walling mods is that it would turn into an incentive for a lot of people. Of course mod devs deserve compensation, and pay what you want or non-intrusive ads would be good solution in my mind. It's sad to hear that some mod devs went homeless, and they deserve all the support they can get.
Ima keep it a buck if you cant make rent you shouldnt be sitting at your PC putting dumping HOURS using your valuable talent to make no money while you cant put food on the table. Priorities are out of whack there like go get a job as a software engineer and if not Mcdonalds anything if your disabled mentally or phyiscally apply for disability like dont just keep making mods while your car gets repoed. Mod makers dont expect to profit on mods ever even if you do paywall them your making like no money cus Java players know how to pirate and your mod would have to be extremely popular at the same time of being paywalled. Yea just develop Bedrock shit with a wider consumer base or get a job and then make mods when you can. Sounds like the dude literally didnt have a job and just made mods which yea like how do you expect to not go homeless doing that idk feel like theres more to those stories then the dude just made mods and didnt have a job
something i worry with any creators paywalling mods is one of the biggest issues in the sims 4 mod community currently -- people keeping outdated and broken mods behind a paywall for years without even ~trying~ to fix them
My stance on this is I don't think it should be 'illegal' for mods to be paid, but I also don't want Java turning into bedrock where every single third party modification to the game is behind some form of paywall. Good example of this is physics mod pro. This mod would be so cool to have except it's behind a paywall :/, however however this guy gotta make money some how. I think the best way to go about it its like sodium where they have a 'Buy me a coffee' link or ko-fi or whatever it may be. Donations is the best way to tackle this dilemma in my opinion.
Okay obviously that mod is fucking awesome and took a lot of time. My question is if you have that kind of skill to code and want to profit WHY MAKE A JAVA MINECRAFT MOD............ Like tbh homie shoulda just gotten a job and done that on the side over a wayyy longer period of time and called it a passion project and if it wasnt fun and felt like a job and its gonna be profitable its a waste of time. And sadly java players are tech savy already typically and will prolly pirate your mod in a days time I mean its hard to stop that with mods. I think mods with this much effort are the ones that deserve the paywall more than anything but it just creates a standered sometimes and next thing ya know boom sodium is 30$ to get your game to fucking run lol so shit its a dillema fs but I just dont think modding should ever be expected to do anything but lose you money its like building a project car its a lotta fun and the end resault is awesome but its not worth the money you put into it.
minecraft marketplace sucks ass, and i don't want ANYTHING near that on java!
An in-between I've never seen been used but I think would work really well is: Paid for production. You get paid to make the mod, but once the mod is mod, you release it to everyone for free.
That ensures the developper's work never goes unrewarded, but from everyone other than the client''s point of view, it pretty much equivalent to someone else making a donation. Hard to argue a mod is paywalled if said mod either doesn't exist, or is availaible for free.
The only mod I would pay for is the physics mod, It just has so much effort put into it but Paywalls ruins stuff, and drain creativity. But on the other hand I do want people to make money off stuff and survive, so its tough.
Survive man its been known modding every game is passion project shit its like making art when your not a professional or music its for fun and to get better at your craft to eventually hopefully make it big time. LIKE MANY MODDERS HAVE LITERALLY GONE AND WORKED FOR MOJANG. and thats just mojang theres plenty of other studios out there. If your modding minecraft 8 hours a day without a consistent paycheck your a little lets say fiscally idiotic to not expect to go broke. Especially when you probably already have the skills to get a entry level coding job you wont have as much time to mod which is your passion but thats life and its better than being homeless bleak as fuck but yea we all wish we could make music getting better at the shit we love to do.
Paywalling for *fully complete* mods I disagree with, but for mods that aren’t ready for public use and are acting as a “sneak peek” or “early development access” build, I can get behind that
Loved the video and I agree with most of your points but as a developer myself I'd honestly still be in favor of being able to sell mods/datapacks! A donation or pay-what-you-want model sounds amazing in theory, but the reality is: People generally only pay if they have to!
To explain my opinion I'd like to shine a little light on this topic from the side of a developer instead of a consumer.
I've been releasing free maps & datapacks for over 10 years now and all my projects combined have ~10 Million downloads. My projects are quite popular on other Minecraft channels too and a few years ago I counted the combined views other channels made with my datapacks. It was over 3.5 Billion views. So I've provided the community with YEARS of free entertainment, other TH-camrs have made well over $10M directly using my work, while I constantly struggle to make ends meet because I've committed the crime of developing for Java instead of Bedrock. You would think that with these numbers and around 400k subscribers it'd be easy to live off of donations but I have not once received over 100$/month on my patreon, despite regularly plugging it. Jetstarfish sold his mod and immediately reached $1.300/month within a few weeks. So as annoying as a paywall is, it jjust works.
I continue to release my datapacks for free, but I honestly wish I could sell them! Not out of greed, but if I don't make enough money to pay the bills I simpply have to find another job and consequently stop making the content that the community has enjoyed for a decade without having to pay a single dollar!
Developers on Bedrock are allowed to make a living off their work, so why shouldn't Java Developers be allowed to do the same?
You raise some very good point my friend and its amazing to see this video has reached the people i wanted it to!
I am planning to dive deeper in the bedrock vs java selling mods issue as i do think its important that people who make amazing mods and want to be compensated for them, actually get to be compensated.
@@Cygnus_MC Really looking forward to see it! 😊
Hope to see you there!
1:15 "Why would mojang care?"
Simple, microsoft doesnt want us spending money on mods so people who are willing to spend money go to buy it from them in the bedrock marketplace.
Mojang *
Java players cant use bedrock shit tho so like if anything they would make a java marketplace and get all the biggest mod devs together and make that a thing but if they did that they would have to acknowledge performance mods like lithium and shit which shouldnt even have to be a mod in the first place same with Entity culling like seriously thats a fucking a mod Entity culling entities cause so much fucking lag and this is such a moronically easy fix like how on earth has mojang not
@@h3ck774 The thing is, unlike bedrock, you can go back to previous versions of the game in java if they added the "java marketplace" not only would it cause extreme backlash but people would just play the previous version to the marketplace update and add something like future MC to get all new minecraft features and mods for free, so mojang is trying to make people who would pay for mods switch to the version of the game they CAN profit off so this change to the EULA makes mod developers in bedrock effectively gain more than those on java so they end up switching versions to be able to charge for mods and making mojang more money.
And yeah mojang devs probably work for less than half an hour a week. There are TONS of optimizations and bug fixes they could add and they don't, it isn't even extra work the community has already made the code for them they just have to copy and paste it but we still got nothing and are pretty much forced to use those mods to make the game playable, especially in low end PCs.
Have to say I was VERY worried when you posted that survey HOW this would turn out.
BUT I love your takes and conclusion!
As a shader dev I currently do this model: All updates are free and will forever be free for everyone. Tbose big updates happen every few months and in between that time I do beta versions my Patreons have access to. All features from the beta version will be for free in ghe next update.
Having a Patreon as a creator is helpful as I get a few extra bucks from something I sepnd hours and hours working on for free otherwise
honestly i feel like a mod developer should be able to sell their mod, its their content, that they put effort into and does deserve to be compensated for that. imo i see it the same as a game as a whole, though mods should ofc be significantly cheaper since they arent an entire game. someone makes a thing that people like and want to play, if its a game people are happy paying for it, but if its just a mod, no matter how good or how vast the mod, people think its scummy to "paywall" it? its hypocritical imo, especially when you consider that theres def gonna start being piracy issues, if you find a cool mod that asks for money and you dont want to pay, just do what youd do for a full game and just pirate it anyway, who really cares.
the mod requires the actual game which they don't own to function, and the whole idea of modding has always been a sort of free hobby world where people make things as hobbies and share them
I love the open nature of java modding, but I also can't stand the hypocrisy of mojang saying we can't monetize our java mods only to charge absurd prices on the bedrock marketplace
marketplace sucks but it is their game and they gotta make consistent money somehow i guess. worse tho is them killing bedrock modding and forcing ppl onto just marketplace
Not gonna say if they should be paid, but even if they where, the ones that are, are arguably overpriced and the ones where is most unnecessary to have a paywall. In my experience the creators I've seen pushing these paid mods probably make enought to pay for the developement and also some profit just with the videos (specially if they are sponsored videos) and these mods tend to be pretty small and simple changes, with the patreons at prices of almost 10$, meanwhile there are giant mods that add hundreds of models and objects or even entire mechanics to the game that are completley free. So even if it was legal or we where fine with mods being paid, I don't think they should cost more than 50 cents or a dollar, specially these smaller ones.
if its high quality i dont care if they want payment for it
arguably i think the worse trend is modders selling paid for shader packs, and then saying "wElL aCtUaLlY iTs A rESoUrCe pAcK", like my brother in Christ what do you think "mod" stands for?
whimzee literally sells mod
I think the patreon paywall should only be there for when a mod is still under major development so people who are really interested can test it and give feedback while also supporting the dev, but after the mod is finished it def should be released for free. That’s how Craisin does it and I don’t mind it
Wauw i didnt know paid mods are such a bad idea! Thank you for the informative video!
big respect for the balanced and chill take! nice video
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you need to paywall your mods because you have financial problems maybe you shouldn't make mods your source of income, donations are ok
Personally I don't use many mods that change gameplay or need to be on both server and client, but I tend to play a lot of anarchy. In the anarchy community, there's quite a few paid clients, but these tend to be higher quality than the free ones. These paid clients tend to be updated way more often, and in general just have better support. I know this does not really apply to mods in general, but this is just another example most people don't think of.
I'm fine with people like Vazkii who have a Patreon for their mods that allows people to have access to beta files of various mods, as well as cosmetics in the live branch. Putting early access (often alongside official server access) behind a Patreon should never be an issue in my eyes, since what you're paying for is access to a potentially worse version of the mod, as well as a private server. By keeping Patreon beta and public release groups completely separate, they should be allowed to keep it as is since there's no situation where a Patreon supporter would be playing with regular players and have any difference in experience aside from goofy cosmetics like Botania's flowerheads that have no impact on the game's balance.
7:54 Essential is a backdoor*, although I'm not aware of anything malicious that has been done with it yet. e4mc is an open source mod that provides the same functionality of hosting a LAN world/server without having port forwarding set up, and only requires the host to have the mod installed.
*when run, the jar from their website downloads an installer that then downloads the mod, which contains a copy of the installer (for automatic updates). The automatic updates could be changed to push malware to any Essential user at any time when they start the game.
Ive seen a few people say this, any source you can give me? I wanne investigate further
@@Cygnus_MC I found it out by extracting the files out of the jar, decompiling them and going through the code. The code assembled a link to download another jar, which I also extracted and decompiled. The second jar assembles a link to download the actual mod, which includes a copy of one of the first 2 jars (I don't remember which one, and I don't currently have access to the computer I did the decompilations on)
If it is legitimate, this packaging method could just be to reduce the size of the initial download (and then including the installer in the final mod to allow for automatic updates), although I don't know why 2 installer stages would be better than just having the installer download the mod directly.
If the current version is malware, the obfuscated installation method will mean that an antivirus scanning the installer cannot detect the malware in the actual mod
If they are planning to release malware later, automatic updates provides an easy way to roll out the malicious version to other users
@mathmagician8191 thats some deep investigation u got there. If u have a discord, could u send me some screenshots?
The situation with 2b2t is kinda weird. Running servers costs money (and not just "my time is money"; actual infrastructure money), and a priority queue for members is as tame as it gets, because the server capacity is limited by those same infra costs and the fact that only "corpo" servers like Hypixel can afford custom server software that helps them scale beyond the terribly optimized vanilla server. According to the EULA, however, Hypixel's actually gameplay altering microtransactions seem to be fine because they fall in a grey area, even though they are predatory for children, even moreso than a donation button for a mod. Also, selling cosmetics is fine: Essentials is in the clear, as much as everyone hates microtx, and truth is Essentials also has infra costs (they use TURN servers, so they do not have to execute a dedicated server but every packet is still tunneled through their proxies), but then OptiFine and old school Mekanism are not, since the cosmetics they offer(ed) are capes, which are an exception to the clause. There is also this thing where you cannot charge different regional prices, even though forbidding such a thing is against the same spirit of the rule.
So, I get why people dislike microtx, but Minecraft mod donations are kind of a meme in the modding community because no one ever donates. It kinda sucks for all parties involved.
Running servers is DOGSHIT cheap nowadays mainetence is nothing so you dont really have to put that into equation. Paying administrators and shit is one thing tho must just wait for diehard veterans of the server to volunteer and climb ranks. Like people keep dead servers running for decades because it cost like nothing obviously 2b2t is active so it cost more but point is its not a lot of money to keep it running. And tbh I dont really see an issue with priority que as a concept its done really poorly rn leaving empty slots all the time but its really one of the only solutions i can think of for a survival server with possible 10s of thousands wanting to join at one time. At this point 2bt2 is so popular its pay for priority and still wait 3 hours or just find another better anarchy server and forget about starting out new in 2024
I think there should be a possebility tompay for a modding service including a bunch of paid mods, so you can include then in public available modpacks.
In the end, devs will still give up eventually, cause in the rare occasion that someone donates to them, it wont be enough for 3 to 2 meals a day. I have already given up on modding mc, cause with a community like that + this situation, its not worth it.
I have seen this in VR Chat and Sonic Adventure DX, where mod makers take commissions to make mods for people. Idk how or if that could work for MC with the EULA since I didn’t read it.
I don't exactly know if this is applicable with Java, but some devrlopers bypass GPL restrictions by providing the source code for free and selling compiled versions.
No. Mods should NEVER be paid, they should be free for all
Mods should NEVER be paid. Simple as that.
Damn right passion isn’t edible.
U feel me
Paid mods are against the EULA/TOS. So here's the reality. Its kind of a legal loop hole to give access to your own personal mods through something like patreon as long as you can claim you arent selling the mod... That said, you also have ZERO legal recourse to stop anyone from sharing your private mod after they've gotten access. Because you cannot sue for monetary damages since selling minecraft mods and maps are agains EULA/TOS to begin with.
TL;DR - It may be a legal gray area to paywall your mods in a patreon, but you have zero ability to stop a 3rd party from sharing your work for free.
According to some legal advisors ive talked to trying to claim its a reward for supporting someone financially is likely not going to hold very well
But aren't many popular plugins paid, is that also against the eula or not?
7:58 That mod collects it's own telemetry and auto updates itself...
Could u give me a source? I wanne investigate, if this is true its horrible
the physics mod had this, but theres a free and paid version with more features as a way to support the creator.
im perfectly fine with that. ( i have not seen the video).
I am more than happy for mod (and modpack) developers to be compensated financially. I have to admit that the mods I am willing to install are far more likely to have an open source license and a reasonably well run project to back them up.
tbh if i see one i just go "cool thing you got there too bad its paid"
What about like a kickstarter for a mod? (This might be a dumb question)
shouldnt be an issue so long as the end result is free
Pay for no? support creators, yes.
Yes and no. My issue is here the business end. Once it's for pay you get to expect results.
And so if a modder makes it do you have to pay, people will expect updates. And technically if the modder doesn't, they would be scamming people for a mod you can never use past version X.
From my reading of the EULA it seems to be stating that a modded version of the game cannot be sold, as the combined code of the mod + the game is copyrighted.
However in the EULA they say a mod is completely owned by those who create them and that they can do whatever they want with it. Since that code isn't owned by Mojang, because they never made it, it seems that people can sell mods.
Keep in mind I have a bachelors degree in Law and EULAs often have these little tricks in them to try and dissuade people from making money that isn't on their platform. But from what I know about software law, nobody has a copyright to every little bit of code written in Java. Java is an open source program language, and essentially that is what is being sold, is Java code. Now if it was on Bedrock I'm not so sure anymore because I think that might be written in a coding language made by Mojang/Microsoft. But selling a Java Mod seems perfectly legal from my eyes.
Now whether it is ethical to do so is completely different bag of worms that I personally won't comment on because I don't know. If you would like I can show this to an attorney to get a professional opinion as well.
Dude ive been dying to have someone who knows something about law in these comments. Thanks for that insight!! Its a pain to get some of these things checked by lawyers
@@Cygnus_MCI'll have an attorney I know do some legal research on this thing and I'll report his findings later this week.
@@8888stealth please do, u can send me his findings on discord if ud like!
A way a lot of terraria mods are monetised is by adding a donor item which is just an item the person who donated to the devs wanted to see in the mod. I don't think this breaks the EULA, although i'm not sure.
its basically just hiring someone to make a mod for you which i dont see anything wrong with, as long as the actual mod ends up being free, since its just someone paying someone else for the labor and everyone gets the benefits
remember folks, it's always moral to pirate and share paywalled mods and shaders
I don’t see why.
If developers use their skills and time and life to make a mod why can’t they charge for it morally ?
@@Alex-ck5gf in short: the minecraft EULA
in long: if they decide to spend THEIR time and THEIR skills on minecraft mods, then they should adhere to the EULA and keep their mods free
there is nothing wrong with adding a donation page to the mod in a settings menu or somewhere that doesn't obstruct gameplay, but there is something wrong with forcing someone to cough up money to make a few new additions to their silly block game
@@Alex-ck5gf Because modding should always be done for the love of the craft first and foremost, not seeking money. Accepting donations is fine.
Half-Life and its derivatives were born off the principle of modding and editing existing content. Without free and open source software, gaming as we know it wouldn’t exist. The least we can do is respect that courtesy when we make mods for our favorite games
alex, because fuck them all that's why, ahah
with bedrock developers they added addons to the Minecraft store so now they have a way to legally make money but the people who post their addons on there tend to post simple addons or recreations of java mods which definitely should not be allowed to be sold
In hignsite it is also pretty scummy to pay for maps as well I did do that once for "the ultimate Survival map" and while I enjoy it I will probably not do it again
I had to delete that comment I made originally people were just arguing too much but I am just gonna say I am against paid mods
By the start of conversation, mods never should be paid, like dude: you already have to buy minecraft, and now i gotta pay for mods? Nah hell nah
Here's a thought. Plugin or Mod is free, but charge for support.
donate should be allowed since its an option for the other person if they want to "pay" the developer if they wanted
Donations are allowed
I don't know if you know of this, but this is strangely relevant to The Hayze's recent video.
Naturalist is free on java and costs Money on Bedrock (Marketplace) its so sad to see that Bedrock players are locked behind a pay wall everywere (I know it only said Minecraft java in the eula)
if paid mods get too big, I'm worried Mojang/Microsoft will crack down on it and ruin modding for everyone
same with the non-ELUA compliant pay2win servers
the unequal enforcement of the really overreaching ELUA is a timebomb
I feel like a lot of people and companies could sue Mojan over the Bedrock Marketplace since they host and monetise cheap mods banking off of IP infringement.
No mod should be paid. Especially those using open source tools to be created.
if all mods were paid for. howmuch would modpacks cost then?