I’m new to CR so I am not an OG critter, so from a new perspective Grog was comic relief, but his Craven Edge arc and the Killbox episode turned him into a full bodied character. I love Grog so much now.
I think during S1 he was a bit flat but they made up for it in S2, also there was a bit of a menacing quality he had in the stream that kind of got replaced by “teddy bear that can go insane”
I mean, I think you might be taking this way too serious. It's a trope of "The power of friendship and the real reward is the friends we made along the way", it's kinda trash. I'm not saying it's not the worst portrayal of this trope, but it's tired and is very much a "beating the dead horse" scenario. Is it better? Sure, I guess, since it's an arc for the character, but it's not really that brilliant or unexpected, quite the opposite if you have consumed much media. I'm not saying you're wrong to enjoy it, but the idea of it messing you up emotionally makes me think you haven't seen this a million times as I have.
I thought Grog shouting it against Brimscythe was the best it was going to get, until this moment. Bravo to everyone who did anything related to that scene.
When I watched the first two episodes of season 1 early from being part of the Kickstarter, I cried when Grog said "I would like to rage". It was at that moment where everything just felt real and it was crazy that I was seeing an animated adaptation of a story I've spent so much time obsessing over. Its a real testament to everyone in the creation of the series that when Grog says "I would like to rage" again in season 2 that it made me cry again for different reasons.
Technically, no. Matt has said that Vax being fate-touched was something he'd long had in planning, and given what it does, it's unlikely anyone else would have earned the Death-walkers Ward. Laura rolling that badly, and Liam offering himself were just excellent excuses for those reveals
@@alearnedman If I remember correctly from the campaign wrap up, it's not that he planned for Vax to be fate touched, it's that he gave it to him and thought "this probably won't come up or be explained for a long time". He also says multiple times in the wrap up that he didn't know who would wear the ward. I believe he said he gave it to him in the moment specifically because Liam was going through a really hard time in his life and Matt wanted to do something special for him.
See, the show is more focused on the story and the development arcs. They make changes in that regard. The events in game play out according to the game being played, but of course, the show changes it to serve the story and character arcs (like who killed Umbrasyl)
It’s the difference of mediums. Remember what happened when Avatar TLA got a film adaptation? (I’m going to ignore the other problems with the film). Since it had a runtime of 5 episodes, they couldn’t worldbuild as well as a 20-episode series; so the film focused on Aang and his growth into accepting the Avatar responsibilities, adding in The Blue Spirit for any future film. Critical Role is an improv show. Legend of Vox Machina is a scripted animation. Animation is why the party was split. As stated in the watch party, the animators didn’t want to draw 7 protagonists (plus NPCs) in every scene, so the party split into 3 and 4. In a script, it’s easier to identify character arcs and write into them. Such as Scanlan finding his courage, or how Keyleth reacted to Vax’s declaration of love in Whitestone (Marisha blue screened at the table). The writers can then go back and adjust little moments or entire scenes to lead up to the payoff moment. Scripts also can fix weaknesses in the tabletop medium. Exanoles pointed out in the watch party was Grog losing his muscles or the “not-Beholder” petrifying the players. Narratively, death doesn’t mean much if Revivify always works. So creating stakes or consequences other than death makes for more interesting visuals or storytelling. A strength of the tabletop show was the tension of the fight scenes. Each roll could be the player’s last. This wasn’t as easily translated to a tv show without feeling a little chaotic. Hence, most fights focused on the characters instead of the battle. The opening bar fight that introduced abilities and personalities, Craven Edge not getting blood from fire plane denizens, the Sphinx testing insecurities, and so on. Even in combat, characters grew.
@@LocalMaple I agreed with the reasoning but disagreed with your example. more time couldn`t fix the avatar. you had earth benders being arrested at a quarry and needed 5 guys to move a rock. more time wouldn't save that mess.
@@JayJayM57 Like I said, “(I’m going to ignore the other problems with the film).” I know the earthbenders were dumb, as well as darkening the overall tone and others. I used the atrocity of a film solely for the runtime example.
Got to give it up to Pike when they are seen. She pops that shield and just destroys that first goliath with it. Just caving his head in using the edge of the light shield like a ax.
I love this episode so damn much Travis Wellingham absolutely smashes it and you can hear the inner DBZ lover within him when he lets loose with those screams
The show has done the best thing an adaptation can do : stay faithful while adapting things better for the small screen AND building upon it. I can’t wait for S3
The metal battle was so intense, worked perfectly within the world and seeing Skanlin on the devil horned Bigby's hand was hilarious and head banging at the same time!
Love the fact that pike is consistently shown as an absolute savage in combat, and is probably the most foul mouthed member of the group, great vision of what a cleric would ACTUALLY be like
Titmouse only does the art (Though it is fantastic). The story is by the Critical Role cast (Particularly Matt and Travis) with some input by the director.
Actually, I believe most of the writing is Sam and Travis, weirdly enough. Though I guess it makes sense with Matt needing to focus on the actual campaigns
I just watched a cast reaction with Critical role and Sam mentioned that they had hired writers or story editors that help them edit the campaign to tighten the storytelling so they keep the themes, character moments that are much beloved and help with little tweaks that will help improve a character moment of add tension etc. So they are changing little things here and there to hopefully improve on the story they were trying to tell. It did seem like Sam and Travis are doing a lot of the storyboarding and season plotting at least from what I could tell.
@@TheAciddragon069 Yeah Matt's main role is consulting on the world, especially in regards to character and location design, but also the general lore as well so that the artists can use knowledge of the lore to make better and more accurate designs from the outset. Talked about it somewhere about how he had to essentially explain the divergence and all that to the titmouse people for the whole introduction to the vestiges and scenes of the calamity when we meet Osysa
It was such a joy to watch. Ten episodes a season is a short time to get to know these characters and move along the story in a convincing way. They have done a brilliant job of balancing the stories while having fanatic character development in that comes across in a very genuine way. It doesn't feel forced or rushed. It's very natural and it makes complete sense for all the characters involved. Grog is the heart. It's clear there is such a connection between Grog and each member of the group, with his relationship with Pike is his soul. His trust in each member of the group and desire to protect them, but belief that they can help him and that they will be okay now that they're together again. No matter what. Together is how they are supposed to be. The depth of emotion is so clearly from a group of people who love and trust each other in real life and in their characters. It shines because it feels real. There is a real chance people can die. People HAVE died. We don't know how the story will be changed, but we know it's going to be true to the characters, make sense within a polished story, and come together in a way and time that makes sense within the flow of a narrative. I have enjoyed this season so much. I thought I couldn't love season one more than season two, but I do. I can't wait to see what comes next.
Okay, so I think this scene is a bit misinterpreted. This isn't Grog realizing that his strength isn't just physical. It does sound like it is that cliché storyline, but no. See, earlier in the season he said "you want me to say it comes from my muscles, but I know it comes from my heart." And I really thought that was going to be the right reply and the monk would just be surprised at how well the barbarian knows himself. But that isn't what happens, it is the wrong answer. But why, though? Only because he said "heart" instead of "friends?" Isn't that basically the same thing? Well, I think this is supposed to mean that he already knew the answer, but this is the moment he really internalizes it. He didn't truly believe it in the beginning, he thought it's just some dumb metaphor, but now he actually understands just how true it is, with his stregth *physically* coming back because of his friends. You might say that's still a small difference, but I think it is very important as pretending that Grog thought his physical strength is all there is, just isn't true. He isn't just the trope, he's a better version of the trope. This is an instance of absolutely phenomenal writing and it doesn't deserve to be undersold the way it is.
I‘ve watched Campaign 1. I know what happens. But they are so effective in the way they are progressing the story that, every time someone dies or is close to dying I think “what if they change it up? What if they really die?”
I absolutely agree with you and your sentiments about Grog’s story. I think the same is true with Vex and Vax this season. All of the little flash backs for them helped to strengthen their bond in the show so when the traumatic events of episode 3+4 happen it hits harder and the same is true for the scenes with their father and Vex’s the battle for Fenthras. And a similar build up is happening for Scanlan as well. Just an awesome job by the cast and the writers.
Man the episode before they got split up really made it look like Grog was about to solo Umbrasyl with Kraven edge. Going from that to losing it all to this scene chefs kiss.
im not the kind for "frendship is magic" effect etc... but grog just made me feel understood in a way. I lost 15 kilos from being perpetually sick for half a year after finally reaching a respectable goal in the gym and then when it was all lost i felt gon... while i dont have many friends, Grog still made me feel at least not alone. Understood in this. He was always my favorite. I like barbarians. Its my main class i will pick any day but this was another step further
I only have one gripe about the change to the story. Scanlan's angry monologue after the crew tell Kayley that he had died, it was such a huge moment and I hope they keep it just as epic and emotional as it was live.
@@redmonsoon8228 Yes, much later, but I specifically remember part of the rant being "we went into the fey realm to deal with your daddy issues" But in the new adaptation he never goes. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the story. I'm super excited to find out.
@@Unoriginal1987 i mean, "we" can be "me and the party" or a more general "the party", here. Like, even if he didn't go, the "we" of Vox Machina did, ya know?
@@weebjeez True, but it doesn't really resonate with how it all went for me, up until that point they really hadn't gone on any big adventure to delve into Scanlan's backstory. I guess the point is still there, but it kind of speaks volumes that it had been nearly a year of buildup to that point. I really just hope they can do the scene justice.
I definitely see them building up to it for season 3. There's been a lot of small scenes where scanlan has been ignored or made to feel like the black sheep of the group. Along with him later in the season coming to grips with his responsibilities and future choices in his life. You can see it all building up really well in a way that I think will be really organic, especially compared to the original campaign where it did feel quite forced.
I am loving the adaptation. People complaining about the changes can just rewatch the campaigns. These are the same people who would want an exact adaptation of a broadway musical and then complain about the flat and static shots that occur because they don't play around with overhead shots or drastic costume/location changes. The point of an adaptation is you get to play around with a new medium. You get to fudge around dice roles that don't make sense for a characters overall arc or condense/move characters around to hut multiple story lines instead of exactly matching the campaign pacing. What they've done here is amazing.
Hello, I’m one of those people who dislikes the adaptation, and I’d like to clarify why. There are a couple major reasons, but the cinematography is not one of them. It’s great if the new medium allows for epic visuals. One reason I dislike significant deviations from the original campaign (which, at several hundred hours, I would contest is not a serious alternative to a few-hour season of LVM) is that it undermines the novelty of adapting a DnD campaign. Part of the reason the CR stories are so amazing is that they’re largely improvised and somewhat determined by dice rolls. By airbrushing the story to make it exactly how “we wished” it was, that largely takes away that aspect and makes the work less unique compared to any other medium that’s completely scripted. But the number one reason I dislike the adaptation is that the adapted versions of my favorite characters (especially Grog and Scanlan) are simply not likable to me in LVM. In the original, I cared about them and cheered for them regardless of whose arc it was. In LVM, it seems like they intentionally stripped them down to childlike memes with the intention of making their “redemption” arcs more impactful. I prefer characters that I can take seriously throughout their entire story. To me, that’s what makes the whole thing (especially the character arcs) worth watching.
@@doptimusdx743 maybe they didn’t want to recreate exactly what already exists? That seems redundant to do an exact recreation that doesn’t respect new audience’s time. Not to mention the cost of trying to recreate 100’s of hours of streaming into animation.
@@majorlazor5058 Being faithful to the source material while adapting it to a new medium is not "recreating exactly what already exists". Obviously the animated show can't have anywhere near the same runtime as the original campaign, but that doesn't mean they need to significantly alter the story or characters. Think about the Lord of the Rings movies. Those, while long, are much more condensed than the books but manage to tell the same story. Despite their long runtime they are certainly considered well worth the audience's time. In fact, the main criticisms of those movies are where they deviate from the books. When you have great source material, you don't need to mess with the story or characters. It is sufficient (and widely preferred by those who respect the original) to simply tell the same story via a new medium.
@@doptimusdx743 not fair to compare the TV show to a film. LOTR didn’t spend a lot of time explaining backstories of everyone. Secondly LOTR made major changes to the story, but we forgave it because the LOTR was a thought out planned series of novels that spent more time describing meals the characters ate than the battles they fought. LoVM was an aimless unplanned game that painstakingly describes every swing of a weapon, every spell casted, every dialogue spoken. Despite loyal fan’s opinions honestly is far too much to squeeze into a digestible story. Also, in D&D players make out of character choices for a gag or meta game reasons. In a TV show they have the ability to fix these oddities and clean up backstories.
I love Grog... It would have been incredible if they played around with the idea of his intelligence being so low because of the beating Kevdak put on him in his youth when he was banned... like imagine if we all think hes just a loveable dumb ass but then we come to realize its from blunt trauma to the brain that left him a bit loopy. That would of added a bit more to an already incredible touching story... and yeah it was very emotional when he was impaled screaming for Kevdak to leave Pike alone.... Chefs Kiss. Keep up the good work bud.
I think a large part of what helps with the changes is that the cast all has a very integral role when it comes to the writing as well, to it helps to streamline the process of the story telling while staying true to not only the characters but the overall narrative that was being used
The impaling, Pikes "I need you, bro!" with these large gnomish sweet eyes... I sat on my couch whispering "There is the source of your strength, dude!" I had fcking tears in my eyes when Grog screamed "I would like to RAAAAAAAAGE!!" and I am a 44 year old grown ass man (watching comic films...but that is not the point.;-))!
I can't believe you didn't mention how they called back to the crazy idea of using the Ring on Grog and summoning him like a pokemon from their campfire. This isn't an on the fly tactic, this is something they only could have come up with because they spent time with each other. It's a callback to their bonds, and even takes a degree of faith and trust. Highlighting the themes of the fight which is why it was such an appropriate precursor to Grog's finisher.
Grog was already a great character (at least by the end of Campaign 1), and the show streamlining things got us that tasty character development so much faster and so much better
As a dnd player and story crafter, i must say im surprised they struggled this hard. The party has already slain at least an adult blue dragon, a high level witch and a vampiric lord, so there alone in the first season is a TON of exp. Im gonna hazard at least seven levels
"This next scene is arguably one of the best scenes in this entire season" "Arguably"? "One of"?? "The season"??? There is no arguing. It's not just *one of*, it is THE best. And not just of the season, of the entire show so far!! (Okay, I know it's a matter of opinion, and therefore arguable, but I'm just SO hyped about the scene)
Basically while Scanlan and Pike are being held by the herd, they have no power what-so-ever and can only be saved if Grog gets his mental house in order.
That’s kinda the power of hindsight and planning, but I think this also still highlights how incredible the source material is. It amazing that they created such a great story with the smallest of planning
I don't remember the plan in C1 always being to ambush Kevdak; perhaps as a last resort if things went south (and they did), but I remember Grog wanting to take on Kevdak alone. It even seemed like Travis thought there was a chance he could win; that Matt might have had an option to scale it to a 1v1. I remember there was an enemy caster in this fight who was sort of Kevdak's counsel, not sure why it wasn't included in the show. Maybe a caster seemed out of place in a barbarian tribe, maybe they wanted to focus to be on Kevdak alone, maybe Matt only put them in the campaign to make the encounter more mechanically challenging.
really the only thing about the fight that made me sad, was we didn't get to see the detail and feel of when Kevdak was bisected in the original. It's minor but for doing so well in the fight overall it did kinda sadden me not to see what happened.
Not related Do you guys think there will be a season 4 of this show? Or will season 3 contain both the conclusion of the Chroma Conclave arc and the Vecna one?
I even heard that the last arc around Vecna will be split in two seasons too. So Season 4 and 5. But nothing is confirmed afaik. With their success, my hopes are high that it will happen.
I'll always die on the hill that is "Grog's arc was always the best arc of Vox Machina". I'm glad the animation put a better spotlight on it then the actual play campaign did. Grog was ALWAYS fearless and never worried about dying. Unless it was about Kevdak. The way he didn't sleep to keep the bonus strength from kraven edge, to how sheepish and careful he was when making plans to fight Kevdak. You could see Travis'/Grog's demeanor change and nobody else in Vox Machina really noticed it. The few times they did, Grog would brush it off and they would let it go and never bothered to check in again. But Travis always had said off-show, "I don't mind Grog dying as long as it's not by Kevdak" and Grog was the same. But yea, Grog's arc shits on the briarwoods and i'll become a lich in this hill! =P
Only a spitball theory of mine. The Stone Gauntlets have a lot more power to them than we think. Bc it's part of a larger set that's modeled after the Three Great Treasures of Thor. Little fun fact about the Norse God. He has three treasures and not just the hammer: Jarngreiper, Meginjord, and Moljnir. Jarngreiper are a pair of steel gloves that Thor wears to protect himself from Moljnirs power. Meginjord is a belt that doubles his physical stats. And of course Moljnir the hammer that summons thunder and lightning. Grogs got a belt. He just got a pair of gloves that can do electric damage. The only thing he's missing now is a melee weapon either an axe or a hammer.
So this is a spoiler for campaign / show if included In the campaign grog actually got a hammer that he could only use cause of the belt. The hammer was a dwarven hammer that could only be used by dwarfs. However the belt was known as the belt of dwavern kind and allowed him to speak / write in dwarvish the beard was just a side affect. Matt then ruled that it also allowed him to use the hammer as well I’m interested to see if the same thing will happen here. He would regularly switch between the blood axe and hammer in the campaign as they had different uses
Its a good scene, but its also clishe, capmaign had less clishes just because it was "real" the series feels like the campaing remixed into clishe scenarios
@@scolack123 the spliting up coming back together in the perfect time, a lot of things in first series when it was super rushed and only meshed together. Not saying its bad, only that they took a story where anything could happen, and turned it into hollywood movie with every encounter, episode, arch following the basic plot diagram of exposition, conflict, action, climax, falling action and resolution. Which is fine i guess, but it loses the real life aspect. Grog died to a sword out of nearly out of nowhere in the campaign, no build up, it was an "oh shit" moment. In the show you see everything coming a mile away cause it follows the popular format. For me its just sad that they lost that uniqueness just for the idea of making it more popular. And anybody who says "I really thought he might kill pike in this scene" is lying that situation was basic anime, -all hope lost- -no chance of winning-, -oh dam he is strong now and everybody is here suddenly, they won-... Not saying they couldnt improve it, but meshing it into this is.. at least very basic and takes away some charm.
I absolutely adored the episode but I don’t know why, it bothered me every time when earthbreaker kept saying “where does your strength come from” instead of “where do you find your strength” 😂 Im just curious why they decided to make the change
@@bessieburnet9816Grog told Groon that his strength came from his heart (internal, himself) and was told that was wrong. In this episode Grog says his strength comes from his friends. Not speaking on his literal, physical strength. His strength is in working as a team. Relying on them as they rely on him. His strength comes from his friends.
yes i agree it made him much better and i love Travis he is my favorite cast member, That said I both a Love hate grog. I love him when he is kicking ass and his occasional serious moments but ive always hated the dumb barbarian stereotype.
The only thing i feel like was off with the scene is that they used the "I would like to Rage" inside joke. Which, while a fan favourite reference, is really out of place in the moment. I get its Grogs thing, but it just feels shoe horned in in the context of the show where he isn't telling the DM what he wants to do.
comparing an animated show to its D&D campaign counterpart where it all started...i get what youre trying to do, but youre literally comparing a first draft to the final product, if we were to compare this video to anything that is. saying they "fixed" it when the origin is a D&D game played by voice actors. stories in D&D sessions are always gonna be mid tier, now that they actually have time to format the story and not be all over the place with initiative rolls, yeah of course the story is better, saying they fixed it tho, like no fucking shit dude
So what was fixed about it? This sounds more like a review than an exploration of any sorta differences that fixed anything in particular? All you really say is they "did grog justice" in this, but really you just mean the story was faster paced?
I'm going into this series totally "blind" so to speak. Not knowing anything at all about the characters, the storylines, or the origins.....I'm barely getting hint that it a D&D storyline?????.....
I don't need to watch this video to immediately know, by title alone, that you most likely fundamentally misunderstand the show. It's an adaptation of a literal D&D campaign. They're staying as true as possible to the plot points of the campaign, and otherwise embellishing details. Vox Machina is even primarily voiced by the players of that D&D group. In other words, it doesn't make sense to criticize Grog's character when that's just how his character had been at the time. He still had his backstory, but it simply wasn't touched on much during Percy's arc (i.e. season 1 of the show). That's literally all there is to it. Grog's story never had anything to "get better." It simply progressed.
Do you agree that LoVM Seaosn 2 has made Grog's story better??
Yes! They’ve done an amazing job showing his big ol heart.
I’m new to CR so I am not an OG critter, so from a new perspective Grog was comic relief, but his Craven Edge arc and the Killbox episode turned him into a full bodied character. I love Grog so much now.
I think during S1 he was a bit flat but they made up for it in S2, also there was a bit of a menacing quality he had in the stream that kind of got replaced by “teddy bear that can go insane”
I mean, I think you might be taking this way too serious. It's a trope of "The power of friendship and the real reward is the friends we made along the way", it's kinda trash. I'm not saying it's not the worst portrayal of this trope, but it's tired and is very much a "beating the dead horse" scenario. Is it better? Sure, I guess, since it's an arc for the character, but it's not really that brilliant or unexpected, quite the opposite if you have consumed much media. I'm not saying you're wrong to enjoy it, but the idea of it messing you up emotionally makes me think you haven't seen this a million times as I have.
If not then this video would be a waste of time.... wink wink
Grog finding his strength and yelling, "I would like to RAAAAAAAAGE" put some tears in my eyes. Along with some silly school girl laughter
I was cheering like a hardcore fan at the Super Bowl lol.
I thought Grog shouting it against Brimscythe was the best it was going to get, until this moment. Bravo to everyone who did anything related to that scene.
It’s the most reactive I’ve been to a single episode of television in years.
Bro i had to keep rewatching and kept losing my sssshhhhhhiiiiiiittttttt!
When I watched the first two episodes of season 1 early from being part of the Kickstarter, I cried when Grog said "I would like to rage". It was at that moment where everything just felt real and it was crazy that I was seeing an animated adaptation of a story I've spent so much time obsessing over.
Its a real testament to everyone in the creation of the series that when Grog says "I would like to rage" again in season 2 that it made me cry again for different reasons.
"Take me instead, you Raven Bitch" Six words that changed everything in Campaign 1.
I thought it was "Does it drop you below zero?", no?
Technically, no. Matt has said that Vax being fate-touched was something he'd long had in planning, and given what it does, it's unlikely anyone else would have earned the Death-walkers Ward. Laura rolling that badly, and Liam offering himself were just excellent excuses for those reveals
@@alearnedman If I remember correctly from the campaign wrap up, it's not that he planned for Vax to be fate touched, it's that he gave it to him and thought "this probably won't come up or be explained for a long time". He also says multiple times in the wrap up that he didn't know who would wear the ward.
I believe he said he gave it to him in the moment specifically because Liam was going through a really hard time in his life and Matt wanted to do something special for him.
@@alearnedman th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxdwmEaMjYgCg6z_KnES7te3Wok0u7wdYH
Clip of what I mentioned
But calling her a bitch was uncalled for and rude
See, the show is more focused on the story and the development arcs. They make changes in that regard. The events in game play out according to the game being played, but of course, the show changes it to serve the story and character arcs (like who killed Umbrasyl)
Scanlan didn’t kill Umbrasyl in the campaign?
@@zach415 nope it was Grog
It’s the difference of mediums.
Remember what happened when Avatar TLA got a film adaptation? (I’m going to ignore the other problems with the film). Since it had a runtime of 5 episodes, they couldn’t worldbuild as well as a 20-episode series; so the film focused on Aang and his growth into accepting the Avatar responsibilities, adding in The Blue Spirit for any future film.
Critical Role is an improv show. Legend of Vox Machina is a scripted animation.
Animation is why the party was split. As stated in the watch party, the animators didn’t want to draw 7 protagonists (plus NPCs) in every scene, so the party split into 3 and 4.
In a script, it’s easier to identify character arcs and write into them. Such as Scanlan finding his courage, or how Keyleth reacted to Vax’s declaration of love in Whitestone (Marisha blue screened at the table). The writers can then go back and adjust little moments or entire scenes to lead up to the payoff moment.
Scripts also can fix weaknesses in the tabletop medium. Exanoles pointed out in the watch party was Grog losing his muscles or the “not-Beholder” petrifying the players. Narratively, death doesn’t mean much if Revivify always works. So creating stakes or consequences other than death makes for more interesting visuals or storytelling.
A strength of the tabletop show was the tension of the fight scenes. Each roll could be the player’s last. This wasn’t as easily translated to a tv show without feeling a little chaotic. Hence, most fights focused on the characters instead of the battle. The opening bar fight that introduced abilities and personalities, Craven Edge not getting blood from fire plane denizens, the Sphinx testing insecurities, and so on. Even in combat, characters grew.
@@LocalMaple I agreed with the reasoning but disagreed with your example. more time couldn`t fix the avatar. you had earth benders being arrested at a quarry and needed 5 guys to move a rock. more time wouldn't save that mess.
@@JayJayM57 Like I said, “(I’m going to ignore the other problems with the film).” I know the earthbenders were dumb, as well as darkening the overall tone and others. I used the atrocity of a film solely for the runtime example.
Grog had in campain 6 inteligence
Cravens Edge had 18
Just think about it for a second
Im dumb but my guess is you implying the insane roll odds to overcome its influence on him??
@@thefoxwolfdraconis yeah thou craven edge was frustrated a bit cuz was hard to find common lanuage with grog
Almost, its int was 16, charisma was 18.
@@Avenus112 my mistake
@@sober667 all good my dude, i checked on the sword myself and that is a brutal item for grog to use. Would absolutely dominate him.
Got to give it up to Pike when they are seen. She pops that shield and just destroys that first goliath with it. Just caving his head in using the edge of the light shield like a ax.
I mean Pike IS a MONSTA after all! lol
I had to rewind that but,she's fast and brutal! Well done episode
I love this episode so damn much Travis Wellingham absolutely smashes it and you can hear the inner DBZ lover within him when he lets loose with those screams
Hell yes
The show has done the best thing an adaptation can do : stay faithful while adapting things better for the small screen AND building upon it. I can’t wait for S3
I’m excited to see the vestiges evolve further for all the characters like it did for vax!
The metal battle was so intense, worked perfectly within the world and seeing Skanlin on the devil horned Bigby's hand was hilarious and head banging at the same time!
Love the fact that pike is consistently shown as an absolute savage in combat, and is probably the most foul mouthed member of the group, great vision of what a cleric would ACTUALLY be like
When I tell you I felt every single atom in my body enter a frenzy when he regained his strength.
Titmouse only does the art (Though it is fantastic). The story is by the Critical Role cast (Particularly Matt and Travis) with some input by the director.
Actually, I believe most of the writing is Sam and Travis, weirdly enough. Though I guess it makes sense with Matt needing to focus on the actual campaigns
@@CrownofMischief yeah from my understanding Matt is more involved in the art design of the locations
Sam and Travis but yes
I just watched a cast reaction with Critical role and Sam mentioned that they had hired writers or story editors that help them edit the campaign to tighten the storytelling so they keep the themes, character moments that are much beloved and help with little tweaks that will help improve a character moment of add tension etc. So they are changing little things here and there to hopefully improve on the story they were trying to tell. It did seem like Sam and Travis are doing a lot of the storyboarding and season plotting at least from what I could tell.
@@TheAciddragon069 Yeah Matt's main role is consulting on the world, especially in regards to character and location design, but also the general lore as well so that the artists can use knowledge of the lore to make better and more accurate designs from the outset. Talked about it somewhere about how he had to essentially explain the divergence and all that to the titmouse people for the whole introduction to the vestiges and scenes of the calamity when we meet Osysa
It was such a joy to watch. Ten episodes a season is a short time to get to know these characters and move along the story in a convincing way. They have done a brilliant job of balancing the stories while having fanatic character development in that comes across in a very genuine way. It doesn't feel forced or rushed. It's very natural and it makes complete sense for all the characters involved.
Grog is the heart. It's clear there is such a connection between Grog and each member of the group, with his relationship with Pike is his soul. His trust in each member of the group and desire to protect them, but belief that they can help him and that they will be okay now that they're together again. No matter what. Together is how they are supposed to be.
The depth of emotion is so clearly from a group of people who love and trust each other in real life and in their characters. It shines because it feels real. There is a real chance people can die. People HAVE died. We don't know how the story will be changed, but we know it's going to be true to the characters, make sense within a polished story, and come together in a way and time that makes sense within the flow of a narrative.
I have enjoyed this season so much. I thought I couldn't love season one more than season two, but I do. I can't wait to see what comes next.
The only thing I wish they would have included was Travis's "Do you also squat when you piss now?" line 😂
That probably would be too problematic for them to put in.
Awesome quote but I can see why they didn't "find it necessary" to put that in
Okay, so I think this scene is a bit misinterpreted.
This isn't Grog realizing that his strength isn't just physical. It does sound like it is that cliché storyline, but no.
See, earlier in the season he said "you want me to say it comes from my muscles, but I know it comes from my heart." And I really thought that was going to be the right reply and the monk would just be surprised at how well the barbarian knows himself.
But that isn't what happens, it is the wrong answer. But why, though? Only because he said "heart" instead of "friends?" Isn't that basically the same thing?
Well, I think this is supposed to mean that he already knew the answer, but this is the moment he really internalizes it. He didn't truly believe it in the beginning, he thought it's just some dumb metaphor, but now he actually understands just how true it is, with his stregth *physically* coming back because of his friends.
You might say that's still a small difference, but I think it is very important as pretending that Grog thought his physical strength is all there is, just isn't true. He isn't just the trope, he's a better version of the trope. This is an instance of absolutely phenomenal writing and it doesn't deserve to be undersold the way it is.
honestly, Vox Machina is a good case study in how to change the source material correctly, and in meaningful ways.
I‘ve watched Campaign 1. I know what happens. But they are so effective in the way they are progressing the story that, every time someone dies or is close to dying I think “what if they change it up? What if they really die?”
As someone who never got into the podcast, it really makes me happy that the show runners are making a hell of a good adaptation.
It’s more of a compliment than an insult, but they aren’t going to have a better episode than this. God tier television.
The Kevdak fight was the scene/episode I have been most excited to see animated and it did not disappoint AT. ALL.
The highlight of this last set of episodes was seeing Bad News get more time in the spotlight. Gotta love that wildly overpowered ol' lever gat.
I absolutely agree with you and your sentiments about Grog’s story. I think the same is true with Vex and Vax this season. All of the little flash backs for them helped to strengthen their bond in the show so when the traumatic events of episode 3+4 happen it hits harder and the same is true for the scenes with their father and Vex’s the battle for Fenthras. And a similar build up is happening for Scanlan as well. Just an awesome job by the cast and the writers.
Man the episode before they got split up really made it look like Grog was about to solo Umbrasyl with Kraven edge. Going from that to losing it all to this scene chefs kiss.
Yep I was tearing up as well, and then proceeded to jump around in my couch for the Air Drop climax!
I like to think LOVM is Scanlan telling the stories of Vox Machina's great adventure.
im not the kind for "frendship is magic" effect etc... but grog just made me feel understood in a way. I lost 15 kilos from being perpetually sick for half a year after finally reaching a respectable goal in the gym and then when it was all lost i felt gon... while i dont have many friends, Grog still made me feel at least not alone. Understood in this. He was always my favorite. I like barbarians. Its my main class i will pick any day but this was another step further
I only have one gripe about the change to the story. Scanlan's angry monologue after the crew tell Kayley that he had died, it was such a huge moment and I hope they keep it just as epic and emotional as it was live.
I’m pretty sure that happens later, right? Like, they just met Kayley.
@@redmonsoon8228 Yes, much later, but I specifically remember part of the rant being "we went into the fey realm to deal with your daddy issues" But in the new adaptation he never goes. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the story. I'm super excited to find out.
@@Unoriginal1987 i mean, "we" can be "me and the party" or a more general "the party", here. Like, even if he didn't go, the "we" of Vox Machina did, ya know?
@@weebjeez True, but it doesn't really resonate with how it all went for me, up until that point they really hadn't gone on any big adventure to delve into Scanlan's backstory. I guess the point is still there, but it kind of speaks volumes that it had been nearly a year of buildup to that point. I really just hope they can do the scene justice.
I definitely see them building up to it for season 3. There's been a lot of small scenes where scanlan has been ignored or made to feel like the black sheep of the group. Along with him later in the season coming to grips with his responsibilities and future choices in his life. You can see it all building up really well in a way that I think will be really organic, especially compared to the original campaign where it did feel quite forced.
That episode was indeed FANTASTIC storytelling! ❤
That fight scene was one of the most anime things I have ever seen and I mean that in the absolute best way
“I’m making my way” was also iconic! Somehow helped his story also.
I am loving the adaptation. People complaining about the changes can just rewatch the campaigns. These are the same people who would want an exact adaptation of a broadway musical and then complain about the flat and static shots that occur because they don't play around with overhead shots or drastic costume/location changes.
The point of an adaptation is you get to play around with a new medium. You get to fudge around dice roles that don't make sense for a characters overall arc or condense/move characters around to hut multiple story lines instead of exactly matching the campaign pacing. What they've done here is amazing.
I loves campaign 1 and the series is brilliantly done. They kept the feeling from the campaign and made smart changes.
Hello, I’m one of those people who dislikes the adaptation, and I’d like to clarify why. There are a couple major reasons, but the cinematography is not one of them. It’s great if the new medium allows for epic visuals. One reason I dislike significant deviations from the original campaign (which, at several hundred hours, I would contest is not a serious alternative to a few-hour season of LVM) is that it undermines the novelty of adapting a DnD campaign. Part of the reason the CR stories are so amazing is that they’re largely improvised and somewhat determined by dice rolls. By airbrushing the story to make it exactly how “we wished” it was, that largely takes away that aspect and makes the work less unique compared to any other medium that’s completely scripted. But the number one reason I dislike the adaptation is that the adapted versions of my favorite characters (especially Grog and Scanlan) are simply not likable to me in LVM. In the original, I cared about them and cheered for them regardless of whose arc it was. In LVM, it seems like they intentionally stripped them down to childlike memes with the intention of making their “redemption” arcs more impactful. I prefer characters that I can take seriously throughout their entire story. To me, that’s what makes the whole thing (especially the character arcs) worth watching.
@@doptimusdx743 maybe they didn’t want to recreate exactly what already exists? That seems redundant to do an exact recreation that doesn’t respect new audience’s time. Not to mention the cost of trying to recreate 100’s of hours of streaming into animation.
@@majorlazor5058 Being faithful to the source material while adapting it to a new medium is not "recreating exactly what already exists". Obviously the animated show can't have anywhere near the same runtime as the original campaign, but that doesn't mean they need to significantly alter the story or characters. Think about the Lord of the Rings movies. Those, while long, are much more condensed than the books but manage to tell the same story. Despite their long runtime they are certainly considered well worth the audience's time. In fact, the main criticisms of those movies are where they deviate from the books. When you have great source material, you don't need to mess with the story or characters. It is sufficient (and widely preferred by those who respect the original) to simply tell the same story via a new medium.
@@doptimusdx743 not fair to compare the TV show to a film. LOTR didn’t spend a lot of time explaining backstories of everyone. Secondly LOTR made major changes to the story, but we forgave it because the LOTR was a thought out planned series of novels that spent more time describing meals the characters ate than the battles they fought. LoVM was an aimless unplanned game that painstakingly describes every swing of a weapon, every spell casted, every dialogue spoken. Despite loyal fan’s opinions honestly is far too much to squeeze into a digestible story. Also, in D&D players make out of character choices for a gag or meta game reasons. In a TV show they have the ability to fix these oddities and clean up backstories.
This my first view of your videos Fraud. Way to make something so compelling!
I fucking teared up too.
Kevdak went full on Neegan and Grog just goes, nope.
I thought he was hilarious in season 1 but in season 2 he also became compelling
I love Grog... It would have been incredible if they played around with the idea of his intelligence being so low because of the beating Kevdak put on him in his youth when he was banned... like imagine if we all think hes just a loveable dumb ass but then we come to realize its from blunt trauma to the brain that left him a bit loopy. That would of added a bit more to an already incredible touching story... and yeah it was very emotional when he was impaled screaming for Kevdak to leave Pike alone.... Chefs Kiss. Keep up the good work bud.
I think a large part of what helps with the changes is that the cast all has a very integral role when it comes to the writing as well, to it helps to streamline the process of the story telling while staying true to not only the characters but the overall narrative that was being used
This is tha same adaptation that blessed Lord of the RIngs: adaptation with soul, heart, and intelligience
The impaling, Pikes "I need you, bro!" with these large gnomish sweet eyes... I sat on my couch whispering "There is the source of your strength, dude!" I had fcking tears in my eyes when Grog screamed "I would like to RAAAAAAAAGE!!" and I am a 44 year old grown ass man (watching comic films...but that is not the point.;-))!
I damn near shat myself when he shattered the spike that he was stabbed onto.
i wish they could have included grog meeting his father though, that was a cool moment
I can't believe you didn't mention how they called back to the crazy idea of using the Ring on Grog and summoning him like a pokemon from their campfire. This isn't an on the fly tactic, this is something they only could have come up with because they spent time with each other. It's a callback to their bonds, and even takes a degree of faith and trust. Highlighting the themes of the fight which is why it was such an appropriate precursor to Grog's finisher.
Grog and Pikes relationship is my favorite thing in the show, hands down
Str 19, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 13.
When she pleads I need you, I fucking cried.....
Grog was already a great character (at least by the end of Campaign 1), and the show streamlining things got us that tasty character development so much faster and so much better
Looking forward to Percy losing his arm to random bug bears.
Scanlan’s song for the fight was actually kinda epic and now I want it on my playlist
6:37 "uses knuckles to enlarge himself"...
kinky, I bet it would.
brb, gonna go watch ep 10 for the 100th time
As a dnd player and story crafter, i must say im surprised they struggled this hard. The party has already slain at least an adult blue dragon, a high level witch and a vampiric lord, so there alone in the first season is a TON of exp. Im gonna hazard at least seven levels
Grog's great strength is his compassion.
megalobox soundtrack goes hard you have earned my like an subcribe
Bro had me yellin with him😂
This and the owl house are the two shows to make me emotional this year so far.
"This next scene is arguably one of the best scenes in this entire season"
"Arguably"?
"One of"??
"The season"???
There is no arguing. It's not just *one of*, it is THE best. And not just of the season, of the entire show so far!!
(Okay, I know it's a matter of opinion, and therefore arguable, but I'm just SO hyped about the scene)
Basically while Scanlan and Pike are being held by the herd, they have no power what-so-ever and can only be saved if Grog gets his mental house in order.
I'm glad someone enjoys the Megalobox soundtrack as much as I do
ngl, I was cheering on like it was the god damn super bowl.
*sees title*
Me:wait he was broken before?
I just wish they give a better ending to the Vax e Keyleth relationship
That’s kinda the power of hindsight and planning, but I think this also still highlights how incredible the source material is. It amazing that they created such a great story with the smallest of planning
I don't remember the plan in C1 always being to ambush Kevdak; perhaps as a last resort if things went south (and they did), but I remember Grog wanting to take on Kevdak alone. It even seemed like Travis thought there was a chance he could win; that Matt might have had an option to scale it to a 1v1.
I remember there was an enemy caster in this fight who was sort of Kevdak's counsel, not sure why it wasn't included in the show. Maybe a caster seemed out of place in a barbarian tribe, maybe they wanted to focus to be on Kevdak alone, maybe Matt only put them in the campaign to make the encounter more mechanically challenging.
really the only thing about the fight that made me sad, was we didn't get to see the detail and feel of when Kevdak was bisected in the original. It's minor but for doing so well in the fight overall it did kinda sadden me not to see what happened.
Ey man, Grog is one of my favorite characters after that badass fight.
im sorry but saying the show "fixed" grog implies that he was ever not good.
Fixed? Was he ever broken?
I´d say his muscles are bigger than what they where
Not related
Do you guys think there will be a season 4 of this show?
Or will season 3 contain both the conclusion of the Chroma Conclave arc and the Vecna one?
Pretty sure they’ve already been greenlit for season 4 as well as 3, so hopefully s3 will be the rest of the chroma conclave, and s4 will be vecna
@@Jas_rivia I hope this too
I even heard that the last arc around Vecna will be split in two seasons too. So Season 4 and 5. But nothing is confirmed afaik.
With their success, my hopes are high that it will happen.
@@derKuchenPhips that would be awesome
No shot they'll try to fit that all into one season
When talking about cleaving something. It's always in twain not in two. 🙂
When I tell you that I CRIED
I imagine it’s easier to make an intriguing backstory when it’s scripted
I'll always die on the hill that is "Grog's arc was always the best arc of Vox Machina". I'm glad the animation put a better spotlight on it then the actual play campaign did. Grog was ALWAYS fearless and never worried about dying. Unless it was about Kevdak. The way he didn't sleep to keep the bonus strength from kraven edge, to how sheepish and careful he was when making plans to fight Kevdak. You could see Travis'/Grog's demeanor change and nobody else in Vox Machina really noticed it. The few times they did, Grog would brush it off and they would let it go and never bothered to check in again. But Travis always had said off-show, "I don't mind Grog dying as long as it's not by Kevdak" and Grog was the same.
But yea, Grog's arc shits on the briarwoods and i'll become a lich in this hill! =P
Where can i find these animated videos to watch? Ive already seen all of the CrS1 campaign as live but now i wanna see the animated
there on amazon prime
this man got crazy eyes
Grog is my favorite character.
This episode was soo good
did grog need it to be fixed? his flaws are what make him perfect
Only a spitball theory of mine. The Stone Gauntlets have a lot more power to them than we think. Bc it's part of a larger set that's modeled after the Three Great Treasures of Thor.
Little fun fact about the Norse God. He has three treasures and not just the hammer: Jarngreiper, Meginjord, and Moljnir.
Jarngreiper are a pair of steel gloves that Thor wears to protect himself from Moljnirs power.
Meginjord is a belt that doubles his physical stats.
And of course Moljnir the hammer that summons thunder and lightning.
Grogs got a belt. He just got a pair of gloves that can do electric damage. The only thing he's missing now is a melee weapon either an axe or a hammer.
Blood Axe
So this is a spoiler for campaign / show if included
In the campaign grog actually got a hammer that he could only use cause of the belt. The hammer was a dwarven hammer that could only be used by dwarfs. However the belt was known as the belt of dwavern kind and allowed him to speak / write in dwarvish the beard was just a side affect. Matt then ruled that it also allowed him to use the hammer as well
I’m interested to see if the same thing will happen here. He would regularly switch between the blood axe and hammer in the campaign as they had different uses
Grog needs to be in mortal Kombat change my mind
Its a good scene, but its also clishe, capmaign had less clishes just because it was "real" the series feels like the campaing remixed into clishe scenarios
The friends thing?
@@scolack123 the spliting up coming back together in the perfect time, a lot of things in first series when it was super rushed and only meshed together. Not saying its bad, only that they took a story where anything could happen, and turned it into hollywood movie with every encounter, episode, arch following the basic plot diagram of exposition, conflict, action, climax, falling action and resolution. Which is fine i guess, but it loses the real life aspect. Grog died to a sword out of nearly out of nowhere in the campaign, no build up, it was an "oh shit" moment. In the show you see everything coming a mile away cause it follows the popular format. For me its just sad that they lost that uniqueness just for the idea of making it more popular. And anybody who says "I really thought he might kill pike in this scene" is lying that situation was basic anime, -all hope lost- -no chance of winning-, -oh dam he is strong now and everybody is here suddenly, they won-... Not saying they couldnt improve it, but meshing it into this is.. at least very basic and takes away some charm.
I absolutely adored the episode but I don’t know why, it bothered me every time when earthbreaker kept saying “where does your strength come from” instead of “where do you find your strength” 😂 Im just curious why they decided to make the change
I still don't understand that whole thing. Especially since the conclusion was the same as what Earthbreaker said was wrong.
@@bessieburnet9816Grog told Groon that his strength came from his heart (internal, himself) and was told that was wrong. In this episode Grog says his strength comes from his friends. Not speaking on his literal, physical strength. His strength is in working as a team. Relying on them as they rely on him. His strength comes from his friends.
yes i agree it made him much better and i love Travis he is my favorite cast member, That said I both a Love hate grog. I love him when he is kicking ass and his occasional serious moments but ive always hated the dumb barbarian stereotype.
The only thing i feel like was off with the scene is that they used the "I would like to Rage" inside joke. Which, while a fan favourite reference, is really out of place in the moment.
I get its Grogs thing, but it just feels shoe horned in in the context of the show where he isn't telling the DM what he wants to do.
Have a like for the background Kitty XD
If they for any reason cancel season 3, we burn Amazon down. Inject season 3 in my vain now!
Best character arc this season ngl
It was amazing!!!!
Tactical Grog incoming
Im sorry did u say s3 is NEXT YEAR
This episode solidified this series as my all time favorite animated show.
comparing an animated show to its D&D campaign counterpart where it all started...i get what youre trying to do, but youre literally comparing a first draft to the final product, if we were to compare this video to anything that is. saying they "fixed" it when the origin is a D&D game played by voice actors. stories in D&D sessions are always gonna be mid tier, now that they actually have time to format the story and not be all over the place with initiative rolls, yeah of course the story is better, saying they fixed it tho, like no fucking shit dude
Want the deck of many things
So what was fixed about it? This sounds more like a review than an exploration of any sorta differences that fixed anything in particular? All you really say is they "did grog justice" in this, but really you just mean the story was faster paced?
grog look like kratos
I'm going into this series totally "blind" so to speak. Not knowing anything at all about the characters, the storylines, or the origins.....I'm barely getting hint that it a D&D storyline?????.....
I don't need to watch this video to immediately know, by title alone, that you most likely fundamentally misunderstand the show.
It's an adaptation of a literal D&D campaign. They're staying as true as possible to the plot points of the campaign, and otherwise embellishing details. Vox Machina is even primarily voiced by the players of that D&D group.
In other words, it doesn't make sense to criticize Grog's character when that's just how his character had been at the time. He still had his backstory, but it simply wasn't touched on much during Percy's arc (i.e. season 1 of the show).
That's literally all there is to it. Grog's story never had anything to "get better." It simply progressed.
sorry Liam crying at the end of episode three did get you to be emotional?
I only know kratos