Let's TEST "Certified Automotive Grade" Lifepo4 Cells! Watch Before Buying!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2022
- **PLEASE WATCH THIS CORRECTION UPDATE**
@lCGY
This video is about testing cells from Sun Fun Kits. I also go into the claims that they don't need to be top balanced before use. Watch this video before buying.
I have contacted them several times over the past several months so I could review one in my classes, been told every time that they won't help me to review the battery, some of the responses were very rude, I'm surprised they wanted you ti do a review with your brutal honesty and all
Thanks Ray, your gritted teeth speaks volumes. I was concidering SFK, but now ......
Ray, found you by accident last week. Believe I’ve seen all your videos now. Appreciate all of your selfless efforts in passing along your knowledge.
You’ve watched them all? Thanks man! I hope they help.
Well…I am a woodworker so I might have dozed off for a minute during your battery box building series!
Thanks Ray. Everything that needed to be said has been said. Appreciate your efforts and your videos.
My mind goes so in depth with your great words, that I have to go back and give you a thumbs up after I have left. I also do a "share" even if I don't actually share to help your algorithms. I do all of this because you do all that you do for us.
I like longer videos --- as long as its informative , generally speaking I do not consider " unboxing " informative .
But with the distance & importance of lithium batteries [ not being damaged during shipping ] this can be an exception .
I have a bunch of battery channels that I subscribe to , and have been involved in alternative energy systems since the mid to late 70s including building for me & others .
I find your channel to be in the top percentage of all I can find --- keep up the good work , and thanks again .
As always, a pleasure to watch your videos, thanks for being the most honest solar guy on the internet. My batteries btw are doing great. You video's help a lot with me better understanding them. I will be adding more in the near future so I will be keeping up with what you got going on. For those who don't understand, Texas is more relaxed and at ease compared to the rest of this country I enjoy your relaxed nature and miss that about Texas. Take Care
Thanks for your thorough tests ans debunking of some myths. Nice tests and review!
Thank you for sharing that knowledge and your experience, so refreshing from all the other “salesman” video out there.
Wow. Great video - thanks Ray.
Cheers again from Oz 🇦🇺
Thanks, Ray. I cannot see anything wrong with your capacity test. I use the same method and tester.
I got only the kits from SFK but used my own LF304 cells which were already a bit bulged, hence it was really hard to get them into this case.
Andy! I love your channel. Thanks for all you do.
I figured out a way to install them while being able to remove them in the future without cutting the case. I guess I won't be releasing that video. It was hard to get them in because they were quite bulged after top balancing even though I restrained them while balancing. Of course if you top balance them they will be full when you install them in the case. I guess you could top balance them in the case with some creative criss cross bus bars to put them in parallel.
It would have been a good discussion and I think the kit has promise for those that need 12 volt batteries but for the cost it might be better to just buy an SOK or other ready built 12 volt battery. All moot now.
Looking forward to your next video. You really put a lot into your videos and they are a treat to watch, not like the boring old guy from Texas. LOL
PS maybe we can dive together some day!
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Thanks a lot for your kind words, Ray. Everyone has their own unique style making videos and we're all her to share information and learn from each other. You're certainly not boring, Ray. You learn from me, I learn from you. That's how it always will be.
Where do you go scuba diving in Texas? Didn't know this is a thing. I couldn't think of a better dive buddy than you, Ray. We have to add this to our bucket list 😉😉
Are the sfk kits worth the money if you have your own cells?
@@randybobandy9828 it depends. I wouldn’t buy one but if I did I would make modifications to it. I made a video showing what I would change but I won’t publish it now.
@Off-Grid Garage Andy you get about mate!!!
Even I with my as of now 60 subs have had comments from SFK on my testing videos saying "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG, DO IT LIKE THIS".
I copied you guy's..... It's all yours faults lol
Love from 🏴
Gaz
Thanks Ray for sharing young man! I think another noted point that you mentioned in the first half of this YT vid that should be repeated is that the seller knew they were shipping to someone that would be testing them and this is their best quality.
Makes you go hmmmm !!!
Thanks for the non bias review, very interesting.
Thanks for your videos, I always look forward to them!
I received my LF280K cells from Jenny Wu earlier this week. Production date March 8 & 9 2022. These cells also have a gap on the top of 1.2 to 1.4 mm when placed against each other on a flat surface. this at a voltage of 3.296V and about 30% SOC. I will do a capacity test in the coming days.
Greetings from Belgium
279.21Ah tested with a calibrated smart shunt meter.
Charged all cells to 3.65V, discharged to 2.5V.
Real world test with discharge between 1.8 and 85A (13.2V setup on my boat).
hI ,geert ，how is the test results
Hi, how are these cells going? Would you buy them again? Thanks
Good work Ray, nice day here in Australia.
Great information again. Do you have the plans to your battery boxes? Thanks.
Another great vid, and it was just the right length 👍.
What's next from some of these sellers, Aviation certified 🤔.
Cheers
Another great video and thanks for honesty. I do not think EVE factory will sell brand new cells with welded on studs. At least now i know whom not to buy my next set of batteries from!
SFK: "I hope there was no disingenuous attempt to fudge the results in order to favor Jenny Wu's Docan Tech/Lithicore company."
That is really suck for seller like SFK to say think like that, SFK is not going to money from me for sure!
I happened upon one of your videos...im not even in the battery market...nor do I know what they do lol its just relaxing
I really enjoy your videos. I can't understand a company thinking you were being disingenuous or siding with Jenny Wu. If my math is correct. You are going to spend a small fortune on all the batteries you are going to build, and I don't know ANYONE that isn't going to try to get the best deal on a project that large. Keep doing what you are doing. The fact that they responded so poorly only means you are doing your videos correctly and they are the ones that need to up their game. Have an amazing week sir. See you in the next video.
Badass video Ray ty for all the content.
Thank you for a thorough walk through of these problems. As usual very educational.
A few things I would like to point out:
According to shipping regulations (which by the way none of those sellers apply to) it is however stated that Lithium technology batteries may not be shipped with a higher SOC than 30%, which is pretty close to 3.30V.
So apart from not being sufficiently ballanced they are definately overcharged.
If they charged 4 cells in parallel charging at 80 Amps should be OK, however if they forgot to connect their charger diagonally at opposite ends of the busbars, that could definately explain a lot about the imbalance.
As far as I recall the correct testing procedure is to charge up to 3.65V as you also mention, and keep it at that voltage untill the charge current has dropped to about 1 Amp (4 Amps with 4 cells in parallel, but then have them rest for a couple of hours (can't remember how many) and then individually after charge back to 3.65 V before commencing with the discharge test down to the 2.5V at 0.2C (by the way there is only 1-2 Ah between discharging to 2.7 instead of 2.5).
Please see the follow up video that explains why I incorrectly thought that two of the cells arrived at a higher state of charge. They did not. The discharge tests were subpar but the soc on arrival were not too high.
Another great video and another like from a subscribe fan. I like this video because it reminds me and its like additional video from the one that you found brass bus bars and not copper. As well as teaching me that bus bars are less resistant than stranded wire busses. Ray, how can you stay so happy and calm when crooks are ripping you off? Another question I have is it better to buy batteries/cell from overseas in the winter or summer. I was thinking if the batteries were in a cargo container, on a ship , in the ocean and during the hot summer for a good length of time maybe those conditions could cause a cell or battery to become defective? Thank again Ray.
Ray, thank you so much for this video. You've saved me a bundle man! Wish I could buy you a beer for that.
Too late, my last beer was in 1994! 😂 😂
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff lol
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Easy does it brother. This is a very important video you have posted. Thank you!
For the price you'd think these would be magical
So far I love your videos. You seem like a great person to follow. One thing though. Your volume is about half that of other channels. I found I had to increase the volume during editing on my videos. I have to put my audio to full to watch your videos.
I’m so sorry. I know it’s a problem and I’ve improved it by getting a microphone but all my videos are one take on the iPhone with no editing. Many are hand held selfies looking at the back of the phone. I resisted having a channel for years to avoid the time spent editing video after doing it for hours for a travel vlog. I finally agreed to do it in this format and it has worked out pretty well even with the obvious issues. If you don’t see a microphone on my collar then it is an older video or I forgot it that day. LOL
It's a wild west like market out there I have assembled several 48v batteries with cells from docan after 6 month with daily discharge and using Daly BMS the cell are almost perfectly match and BMS cuts of charge with cell difference of 0.081v at 3.65v and two batteries with cells from Dongguan jiali one year later the degradation is less than 1%.
I have noticed that batteries that underperform generally have some type of mechanical expansion.
As always, you give us your honest opinion backed up with test results. Seems the company supplying this kit to you didn't bother to test the cells or ensure the state of charge was at 30% for shipping.
Yeah, that’ll take a while even with that optional capacitive balancer. The first time, because of the large capacity difference it may take 4 to 8 hrs. Once connected, for all intensive purposes that particular Balancer is always on since it doesn’t shut off above 3 V. Balancers that continue to operate below 3.4 volts are likely to cause balance issue later on.
Thank you , Ray
Did you by accident buy this kit at April 1st ? The manufacturer stating you do not have to top balance them and being able to balance in 1-2 hours when charging at 80A is one of the best jokes I've ever heard. Specifying the capacity with 7 digits is also a laughter - there is no way they can measure the capacity that accurately and it will be different after one week of storage 🤭 The only time I have had a better laugh was when a friend came over and showed me these new 18650 cell he bought. He asked me it I could test them to see if they are really 12,000 mAh (yes: twelve-thousand !!!) 🤣
I have charged automotive cells without balancing but only with cells from the same production batch and when top balanced first. All cells charged equally and the cell voltage was never further apart than a few mVolt. I still believe that balancing and monitoring the cell voltage is a must have in any rechargeable battery pack.
Lol I love the statement "You wouldn't find thier link below" lol who says that on UTube anymore?? Lol stay uninfluenced by sellers and you'll go far. Thanks for keeping it real.
We love your brain Ray 👍
kind of impress , keep up the good work
You videos are perfect !
OCD here. Waiting for the day I can buy a sodium ion battery in North America. Thx for these videos.
Are you really OCD or just particular and exacting?
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff well, undiagnosed anyway, but I appreciate the work you and others, especially Will Prowse, do to help neophytes like me. I just assemble small systems that can be used to run my CPAP, lights and a pellet stove without having to crank up the generator (Minnesota). A brother just installed a Samlex 240v inverter that will run his well pump. I have to use the gen set for that. Another brother lives in Katy and is at the mercy of your Texas power grid, lol.
This is why I deplete any Li batteries I get in. I found that when I charge the batteries instead of draining them from the point I get them in from shipping my testing is off. I now drained and then charge them with a Aims MPPT charge controller, I got exactly what I was thinking I should have in the 1st place.
I just backordered 16 Eve 280's from 18650 Battery Store on south side of Atlanta. I thought why not, they were the same price as Aliblabla. We'll find out and I will let you know..
I'm assuming you got yours now....they are back in stock.
How is it going?
@@MyGoogleTH-cam They are the BEST I have purchased. They are selling out fast. I highly recommend James. Tell him I sent you.
@@rv10flyer84 Already picked them up :)
My first time with diy batteries. Just wrapping up the top balancing.
I think I like the dual post terminals but not sure. I wonder why they make them like that ?
Usually, lifepo4 cells must be shipped at around 30% of charge to be legal but i don't have any reference to this rule. Nice video Ray.
yes, most of my shipments were 30%.
not a couple of years ago though.
@Ray Builds Cool Stuff I am so glad you tested this kit. I was looking at it as a possibility if I needed to order guaranteed capacity cells but I was unsure if it was worth the extra money for so called automotive grade cells.
excellent commentarty and review .. the integrity of u and andy and the mermaid help me hold faith in people .. but corporates ?! .. noyt so much... lol ... i had ordered 18 cells while back but somehow were lost in transit 2 spares because .. murphies law ... ... i eventually got re-embursed my thousand dollars odd .. but when i went to re=order the cost had gone beyond my age care budget leaving me with all ancillaries already purchased, to maintain and build support rep[lacement of my 24 volt system from my old enersun lead batts.. so dissapointing .. bo i sucked it up and are still saving to replace my old lead faithfulls that have surpassed their obligation sto me .. however i have decided to wait now .. gelion battries are advertised haere in ozland to be released in 2023.. much more tolerant and more environmentally freindly than lifepo4.. maybe i missed the bullet and shall discover the new chemistry .. as ex manufacturuer.. i have been very dissapointed in what the new world calls QUALITY CONTROL ... i still trying to find more info on the Gelion but HOPE is ever needed .. .smiles .. keep up thexcellent standards .. mike
Most interesting !
I'm in process of testing (64) 280 ah cells using your exact same method of testing, same equipment also - so far I'm getting 281 - 282 ah , bought them from Amy at Docan Power
Thank you for the good word, Battery Jesus!
keep doing them you have hi standers and I real trust what you say I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way
hiya ray, thanks for testing.
confirms what i already thought.
kinda has a certain usa inverter "manufactorers" ring to this story
Hi F! I got my Raspis. Talk to you after I get back home.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff looking forward to your mail.
for now enjoy your hollidays rays
Facts are facts, I don’t believe the manufacturer
I don't think SFK are the manufacturers of the batteries...just resellers. They only manufacture the cases you out the cells in.
They need to make sure what they are selling is in fact what they are advertising
Good reputable suppliers are what we DIYers need!
NICE!
It’s so true. So far I have only found Jenny Wu.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Alo had good results, so far, with the 304Ah cells from Libby at Docan!
Ray I have bought cells from Jenny Wu after listening to your early experiences. Since then and after more information from you, Andy and others and checking the QR codes on my batteries, I realise I did not get A grade cells as promised. I am sure they are probably good but I have not performed a capacity test yet. But listening to you and others who have bought from Jenny Wu, they are all happy with the quality. But it makes me think that if Docan Technology is just a reseller like a lot of other battery sellers, what sets them apart from the others as far as quality. What do you think? Regards
@@sammaimas155 we can’t really know. All we can do is test. That’s what I do. Jenny Wu hasn’t sold me cells that were damaged or tested below the claimed capacity. Neither has Amy Wan. Neither of them fight with their customers. They also don’t trash talk their competitors.
It seems to me that “grade A” is not an official grade but rather a description used by Chinese sellers to denote high quality. It comes down to who you trust and want to work with. I like working with Jenny and I would like to find others I trust that don’t charge too much.
Thanks Ray . The price on these is scary . Doesn't make sense when you could buy double the others and toss a couple of the bad ones out and still be way ahead.
yup quite a ripoff, 4x the markup with batteries
Heya, yes there are a lot of people lying about there products. thanks for showing
thank you very interesting
Thanks Ray for the straight scoop. Funny, I bought 64 of those cells from Docan recently and the were within 5 millivolts of each other, not all over the place like those "Automotive Cells"! Too bad the owner of SFK is such a jerk and spends all his time running down other vendors instead of improving his own products, I've had a bad feeling from the first time he showed up trash talking everyone. I was in business for many years and one of the first pieces of advice I got was to talk about my own products, not to try to run down my competitors. It just hurst the whole industry. It certainly makes it clear who is making videos to educate people and who is making videos to make a quick buck, doesn't it?
Docan 100% not EV grade cells. They get them from Tender as rejects
The Mr. Rogers of batteries
First time watcher... are You a teacher or have been? You sound like one. You have a very... for a lack of a better word... listenable voice and manner. Awesome videos with great content.
I’m not a trained teacher but I aspire to have the value of one. Thank you.
About the statement of 50% SoC for storage:
Just began testing my LF280K cells from Docan. The first 2 cells took 184Ah on charge - thats about 33% SoC. Just checked the EVE datasheed for the recommended storage SoC: 30-50% - so it‘s just in the specs, just like the cells you got from SFK.
Did you also check the barcodes for the production date? How old are they? Just did that for my cells, being between 5-7 months old.
Thanks Ray. I Bought some Ampare time batteries that are giving me some problems. They say the same thing in their sales pitch, "automotive grade", whatever that means? It's almost impossible to get affordable lipo4 batteries with all the deception and over charging. I had more success with lead acid for my cabin and camper. I do like Lipo4 for my cordless tools though.
Nice and honest video - that’s why i subscribed to your channel!
People in a german forum were discussing the influence of temperature on cell capacity. Under normal 25°C test conditions a 288Ah cell should be around 276Ah at 12°C. So maybe testing at SFK might even have been done at 35°C (someone stated that could be the case in multi cell test enviroments), then maybe capacity at 12°C would be at 275Ah - concidering a linear model based on known comparison of capacities at 10°C and 35°C.
So, which temperatures were you measuring at? (I don‘t remeber your actual test procedure when it comes to temperature - sorry to bother you with that question if that was alteady mentionend in another video).
This is sth that SFK should also state on their stickers - the real temperature at which the capacity was measured.
Great video! Btw. just ordered cells from Jenny Wu out of an european warehouse. Looking forward to test them.
I keep my home at 23.3 C in summer and 21.3 C in winter. These cells were indoors for two weeks or more before testing.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Thx for the info. Expected it this way. In the chart shown in that forum the drop of measured capacity from 35°C to 24°C is 2.1% (linear model). So if SFK measured capacity at 35°C eg 288Ah that would make about 282Ah.
This would not explain the drop in capacity you encountered. So the question is: by what protocol did they measure?
I thought DDP shipping from China is the only option if buying from EU. Where can I learn more about their European warehouse?
@@pirron4 Just ask Jenny Wu for a quote :). Ray posted her mail in one of his video descriptions. She answered very fast.
@@fldutch kindly give me the link to the German forum (or at least the name of the forum). Warm regards.
Thanks for the informative video! I bought cells several years ago, knowing they were cheap and probably B rated, but they tested at 279 AH... They all lie.
Not all of them.
Hmm. I share your concern. I got 16 cells from BLMPOW they are rated at 320AH. I hoped/calculated they would run the house at night and that worked out well. I then bought amother 16 320AH cells from LIITOKALA but this time there is one cell that hits the bottom (2.5v) before the rest and this means the pack will not last the night. I have balanced top and bottom and seen a small improvement. I tested the fully charged suspect cell and it reached 2.5v after delivering 275Ah - this is too far below 320Ah!
LIITOKALA say they think this could be within specs, and want additional tests. I feel rather helpless so have ordered a couple of spare cells from another supplier.
When they arrive I will test the suspect cell many times. This cell showed some slight physical damage to a bottom corner when it arrived but seemed OK. I recorded the damage with a photo to LIITOKALA and we agreed to keep an eye on it.
@Ray What is your recommendation for resolving cases like this?
Persistence. I made a video about my experience with warranty claims.
See if you can get Andy's qrcode reader to see if the DOM matches the label.
It doesn’t.
This is very concerning for me, at some stage I will be looking to upgrade my 9kw system to these type of cells because they are a bargain on paper at least but on my limited budget and the fact I rely on them for all my power it would be a complete disaster to get cells not up to the task. Its also why my current cells were bought locally for a lot more money because the company said they would test the cells before shipping.....Really makes me reconsider buying direct from China now.
Subscribed
I need to watch Andy’s video again regarding A grade & B grade cells about 2 months ago, I believe the bottom line is genuine A grade EVE cells all go into EV’s and are not threaded which in itself can detract from total ah delivery. Eve only allow onsellers to move their non EV grade cells, Andy was talking about having them re-named to solar or storage grade batteries so not to devalue them too seriously, but my take was that at the end of the day unless ur corporate or EV manufacturer you probly will never get ‘EVE’ certified EV grade batteries. Andy’s Off Grid Garage Australia does a very good clarification of what you can expect when buying any lifepo4 EVE type battery cell from Chinese distributors. There are many dodgy sellers out there who dont even send the batteries ,just rip ur money and Ali Express dont seem to care or help. All batteries from China come with risk, some more than others. Andy also recently found many/most of his New A grade cells were up to 2 year old or more when purchased, I think we all get bit, some more than others. All the best, Cheers
Could you top balance each cell once individually after it has been placed into the kit??
EVE now tells us cause I have gotten offers from Jenny first EVE grade B cells that are marked B and she wondered a bit why I was not astonished.
Mine from Amy were never charged above 30-40%.
My supplyer NKON Holland says that 280 AH cells must be compressed/restricted with a force around 280 to 320 kilos,it prolongs the celllife with 1000 cycles (according to other video).
Your concerns are valid however the capacity issue is approximately 5% versus stated. Given the vagaries in testing and equipment that is not unreasonable. They may not be "automotive grade" in the strictest sense but most likely acceptable in most applications. Long term reliability and performance is tough to judge and that is the ultimate test.
The test results aren’t the only issue. The fact that the company claims that everyone else is lying and cheating while failing to meet their own claims is a bigger issue. The fact that they charge 60% more for their cells makes it worse. The fact that it was later revealed that they were reselling cells the product that I had bought and tested from Amy Wan previously for substantially less money was even worse. Their handling of this issue was horrible. I can’t explain why their cells tested below the cells I got from Amy but it may be related to the temperatures in the warehouse where they were stored for months and into the summer in Louisiana. I have no way to know. I do know that if your sales pitch is how you are the only supplier with integrity, you need to operate at a level that demonstrates some. 3-4% below claimed capacity may or may not be a long term issue.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Agreed
You’re told that your videos take too long by folk who are in too much of a rush I reckon
What I would like to see is a tour and explanation of your water catchment system. I asked a while back if you’ll remember
I haven’t forgotten. I know I owe you and some others that video.
Super 👍😃
I think you’ve tested these different cells manufacturers every which way you can .. 😅 have you finished connecting the packs you already made or the inverters?
patience grasshopper. I just have to get it finished before the grid comes tumbling down. There are lots of parts to the self sufficient off grid life. Lately I've been focused on water a bit since we are in a hell of a drought.
This week I'm going to stuff my head with Building Science. Then I'll be back on it. It really is moving forward.
So I'll take this as a no vote on further battery test videos. I'm ok with that. LOL I was up for 3 hours last night doing a 30 minute battery kit build. I could have used the sleep before getting on the early plane.
Have you ever tried or reviewed Hithium cells?
Nope
I have heard the total amps will reduce some after the first few charges, would this somehow be what's happening, that spread does seem large, or are they just misleading people?
No way to know. All we can do is test.
Ray do you know when resistance should be measured, during charge or discharge and at what voltage?
I test at around 3.295. I am looking for outliers.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff What do you consider acceptable and not acceptable IR difference between cells in a pack?
In order to meet Chinese standards for automotive grade they require to be sold with no terminal or a double terminal to meet the certification.
Also in your testing are you testing under the same temperature conditions?
23.3 C in my house.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff yeah, I saw your baseline tests with older cells after commenting ;-)
Thanks for the content.
I tested the pack but not each cell. :(
👍🔋🔋
🤙
Isn't the manufactorer stating what the minimum and maximum voltages should be, so your testresults can be matched?
Yes and I always test with the same protocol so I can compare results.
So there is roughly a 4% difference in cells capacity with your measurement, which could be well within the tolerances of measurement error, temperature, ageing (who knows how long they sat around for), once they are charged and discharged a few times they may even come up in capacity. Would be interesting to see/decode the QR codes and see how old the cells are, if they are from the same batch etc. Keep up the good work.
you will find
99% of buyers will absolutely disagree with you.
@@ursodermatt8809 Buyers need to understand batteries are not like buying 1kg of sugar(which will stay consistent), a batteries capacity will change for an number or reasons(temp, age, storage conditions, use, measurement error, etc) expecting to get 280Ah out of 280Ah battery every time you test it is unrealistic.
Also to note the LF280K spec sheet says the below, so you should be resting for 1hr after charge and trying the test three times if you get lower capacity. Also you are not doing a standard charge, as it should cutoff at 14A. You may be overcharging them.
"After standard charge and 1h rest, discharge to 2.5V cutoff with the current of 0.5 C (A), 1.0C (A), respectively. If the discharge capacity fails to meet the technical requirements, this test is allowed to be repeated three times"
4.2 Standard Charge
The standard charge means charging the cell with charge current 0.5C(A) and constant voltage 3.65V at
(25±2)℃, 0.05C cutoff.
4.3 Standard Discharge
The standard discharge means discharging the cell with discharge current 0.5C(A) and cutoff voltage 2.5V at
(25±2) ℃.
@@uksa007
whilst environmental temperature might have an influence on the test results, i doubt very much repeating the test will make that much of a difference.
those batteries are "grade A/ brandnew" ,
so you will expect them to be higher than the advertised capacity. easy and simple.
i had a delivery of brandnew A grade batteries and the test results were very close to the test results of the seller. and more than the capacity for sure.
@@ursodermatt8809 Too many unknowns, we don't know:
How old the cells are.
How long since SFK tested them.
How SFK tested them.
What temp Ray is doing the tests at.
We know Ray is overcharging them which may have cooked them a bit and reduced their capacity.
Thanks Ray, I was under the understanding that EV-certified batteries only come with no studs nor threaded holes in their terminals, is this correct as far as you know?
Yes but….. as we can see here it is possible to buy EV certified cells that would no longer pass EV certification for any number of reasons. Conversely it is possible to buy rejected cells that have excellent capacity and performance. I think that in this case I received cells that were in no way worthy of the label for multiple reasons. They had sat on the shelf too long, had been modified by the reseller and they may have been stored in a hot warehouse. Whatever the reasons for their poor performance, the “EV certified “ claim was at this point, just another sales pitch. I just test cells myself and get a good idea of what I have purchased. It doesn’t tell me everything but it tells me a lot.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff excellent! thank you for your kind explanation, I will keep this in mind should I build my own battery bank, at the moment I have purchased two 19" rack-mounted ones so that I can test the quality as well as get some use out of them.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff have you got a chance to test cells from Sok 48 v rack pack?
It seems that a lot about china is true, they produce a lot. But lot of things just poor quality. Curios to see a capacity test in 5 years and see how well they lasted.
@@crinabobo7412 I have not tested SOL
@@crinabobo7412 I have not tested SOK
I'm considering buying one of those seplos diy battery kits, have you been contacted by them?
I have not.
Just finished building my first Seplos Mason. So far so good!
@@pepermintpilot1694 25.6 or 48V version, I want to get the 24.6 just want to know they perform as should and the cells are actually grade a as advertised.
They may have been used sold as new.
Thanks Jesus!
Since you are doing a lot of battery testing and posting the results here, I think it would be a good idea to get a calibrated shunt and volt meter and/or calibrated voltage source. You can use these to transfer calibrate your battery testers to see if they are putting out the correct voltage and current. The rest is just math and that is either right or wrong. It is not uncommon for there to be a few percent variation on any instrument that is not calibrated. The batteries you tested in this video obviously had not been tested like they claim. The unbalanced voltages were a red flag there.
I have done 6 of the V3 kits. They are excellent with easy directions, and great customer service. They can be put in serial for up to 48volts.
I put it together last night. I will post the video pretty soon.
Are you uaing a 4x12v balancer between the 4 packs or are you just relying on them to stay in balance over the years? I ask because I see so many 12v battery sellers say that you can put them in series without ever talking about balancing and they don't seem to offer any options to ensure the packs stay in balance once put into service for the next decade.
@@kuhrd great question!
Each kit has a balancer. I built them over several months and they stay almost perfectly balanced. I am currently using 2 in parallel to power a fridge and freezer In addition to the server rack system I have for the major stuff. I just built a portable power cart with 2 others.
@@barryyates9468 I think what he is asking is how you keep the 12 volt batteries balanced with each other. I think you said they can be run in series but it seems that you aren’t actually using them in series.
Where are the EVE test reports with the green and yellow markings ?
They are shipped with the batteries if you order them from EVE directly.
If you do the EVE cell test right there is an EVE test which describes what is required to get the promised capcaity.
The first point is 25°C ambient temperature for the cells long before starting and then they do the test with 0,5C or 140A to get the 280 Ah which would mean that with 40 A only you should get higher figures.
Sunfunkits blames a lot other lifepo4 sellers and describe how accurate they are.
You tester and your old jenny wu cells are right cause they lost capacity based on calendar aging considering they are promising 10 years 80% or the 6000 cycles for the EVE LF280K version based on 0,5C discharge rate.
The fixture is mentioning by the cell maker EVE too inside their 11 page documentation.
Hi mate thanks for posting this, I have learned some interesting things from our conversations.
It is true, he does have a deal with EVE, and they are Automotive EV grade cells from SFK. He is not lying. I know this because I deal with EVE directly and they have the same deal with me. I havent watched this video yet. But I will and then Ill comment again
Looking forward to your next video, there is 100% 2 ways to get cells, one is by tender in Chinese(those are the rejects). This is where alot of the Alibaba sellers get the cells from, and the other is to go direct to the Manufacturer for the cells that are EV grade. And SFK is not the only place buying the EV grade cells. Of course, there are companies that need EV-grade cells for different purposes. One possible explanation for the testing results is that they haven't been charged since leaving the factory, leaving them for a while decreases the capacity a bit. They do need to do a cycle or even 2 before they should be capacity tested, to give accurate results. SFK has maybe made an error in not having charged these cells before sending them to the customer, to give them that lost capacity. But in saying that, really he hasn't. Because supplying the cells direct from the factory is actually better, he probably should update his documentation.
I've edited a comment here - about the factory swapping cells, as I don't believe that is the case.
I will be going to EVE with this information to discuss with them a better way to show the authenticity of EV grade cells. Its been a nightmate trying to do the right thing by people, but not being believed. It happens all the time, and to be honest, the whole reason I got into this business, was to stop the really bad cells being shipped, I believe us Australians and Amercans should get what we pay for. Not something inferior. Because we do all want a long lifespan from these, As they are a large upfront cost.
It would be great if you can you please contact me, so I can investigate with the QR codes to see what is going on and find out if this could be a possibility. edit- but after what happened over the last few days, I not would understand that you probably dont want to do that.
We also know that EV-grade cells hold voltage much better than the MAJORITY of failed EV grade cells. The last thing I will tell you is that 280ah cells are supposed to come in with 2-7% more wh capacity than the B grade cells. Trust me SFK and my business are paying EVE a lot more money for the EV Automotive grade. Also if you understand how the chemical reaction takes place, (you could go and watch a video on youtube by the Limiting factor), he has a photorealistic video explaining lithium-ion batteries, you might get an understanding of how slight variances in the production process, can alter the lifespan of these cells. Compression will also extend the lifespan, and overcharging will absolutely irreversibly damage cells.
And ray, keep doing the good work, because no matter what happens, you do honestly come across as a good person.
Ive only recently discovered your channel, and 2-3 years ago, I go so sick of bad cells coming from china, that I went and did something about it. And it took alot of hard work and endless communication with EVE to get access to the EV grade cells.
Another thing I have seen with my own eyes, is the tenders that take place in china, I came across them in chinese, on baidu, on the Lishen website, when I was searching cell model numbers, and the quantity of bad cells, was in the hundreds of thousands.
I would be very happy to help you to understand what I have learned over the past few years, about how the cells are tested and what makes them EV grade etc.
@@LithiumBatteryGuy the good good cells end up in Evs for good reasons. The leftover gets discounted and pusehed on second tier market. If you know soneone that works at Intel, ask how many processors from the same batch are top and how many are less performant. And that is a much sofisticated process.
World Ev companies are in high demand for the best modules and those cells go directly to big buyers. The others end up on alibaba and other platforms. In 5 to 10 years the reality of these cells will be exposed, by their cycles and life , dead or alive.
@@crinabobo7412 100%
If you remove that black paper on top you will find that qr code was scratched out on these premium automotive grade batteries ;)
Brother I know ur doing ur testing ... But I don't believe those machines that u use im the type that I want to see them handle loads real life loads not a machine... I know u mean well by it but I believe theres a difference with a real load than those machines i see all those batteries in the hallway when u going to put them to work lol... Keep it up brother
Do you trust a ruler to tell you how tall someone is? Or do you have to see then in real life and stand next to them? There is nothing less than "real" about the test machine load. Current is current. The tester simply provides a consistent, repeatable and, most important, known load.
Without a tester you would never know anything . They could sell you 300 ahr cells and give you 270's . Building a 16s bank without properly testing every cell is very expensive crap shoot.
Going by your test number. ALL the cell are a difference AVG of 12.25 AH between claimed and tested AH witch tells me your test method is different then the manufactures. Maybe they discharge to 2v to get there numbers. But they are all pretty close to equal to each other.
Cell One: 12 AH diff
Cell Two: 12 AH diff
Cell Three: 12 AH diff
Cell Four: 13 AH diff
My point is, maybe there not lying to us just testing in a way that looks better.
However I don't believe there worth the price.
Actually it turns out that they got their cells through Luayan. The cells I got from Luayan tested much higher by my tester and method. I suspect the cells I was supplied had been stored in Louisiana in a warehouse through a few summer months and it may have accelerated the aging but I can’t know for sure. I do know that the more I learned about this supplier the worse the story got and I would never do business with them or recommend them to anyone.
@@RayBuildsCoolStuff I'll take that under advisement as I'm searching for cells now.
Did I understand correctly from the video, that SFK sent you cells below rated capacity, although they knew you are a youtuber? Very bold or very stupid of them xD.
A few weeks ago I received "A-grade" (probably rejected, non-automotive) EVE LF280K cells from Shenzhen Basen. Tested 5 cells so far and only one cell reached slightly more than 280Ah. The other four cells reached between 276Ah and 279Ah. I am still unsure, if I am OK with this or not, as it is less than
Dispite the long video, u don’t even show at least some parts of the video when your charging and discharging the cells. It will be good to do that
Discharging takes 7 hours. These are one take videos with no editing. I’m sorry the format doesn’t work for you. I always knew it wouldn’t work for everyone. I hope you find some value.
I think You should do Test / review videos but ensure you stay as professional as possible.
I believe your measurements do not differ significantly from theirs. Without knowing what their protocol is for making the measurements, you are not going to get the same results. Something as simple as a different discharge rate can make a difference as big as you measured.
You should have asked the reseller - what does automotive specification mean, and how do they know they pass those specs? These type of cells do change size when they are charged/discharged. This has been admitted by the manufacturer.
You know what makes a good reseller - honestly, integrity, fair pricing, and someone who stands behind what they are selling.
$ 700. + for 4 batteries
Ray you are spreading the whole "automotive grade" shenanigan and sellers will very soon find out and will go from labeling all of their cells "grade A" cells to "automotive grade" which isn't going to make a difference on the cells they give us.
I wouldn't call "automotive grade" a shenanigan. I do think that we have to test our cells to know what we get and I suspect that buying cells that are indeed approved for use in EVs is overkill for what we need in our energy storage systems. I will be testing these same cells again. I also think that if I was reselling cells here in the US that I marketed as superior cells, I would be testing them before they went out the door.
This whole set up appears to be an absolute racket. Sunwhatever will simply just create a new name and keep selling beat juice
They are NOT certified automotive cells as the terminals CAN NOT be single bolt like that!!! EVE will only sell them with the solid tops or with the dual terminals as shown on their site!
I think they mean that they buy certified automotive grade and then they weld the studs on. I can't be certain of anything but I think that is what they mean. If they say they are selling automotive grade then you are certainly correct.
Thought we watched one of there videos where they were spot welding their own studs on to them. Not sure if that violates anything since they can't be used in automotive after that mod anyway.
Rey I'm