For iRacing Modify APP.Ini File Because iRacing Are For The Best Sim Racers if Not Get ACC Asseto Corsa Competizione If You in Console Get Playstation 4 GT Sport With A Mid Wheel Setup And Pedals, And For Niels Heusinveld...Well Blyat ! Theirs Send Me Heusinveld Ultimate's...Keeps Pressing The Out Of Stock Button And Neither Virbil Throttle For Sim Flight
i believe that's what we are all wishing will happen, which i still believe one day it will happen, but racing will always be around because they have their cult
The people at Kunos make a great game, but they are far from polished. Those whom spend many hours on ACC such as I do will tell you they are far from perfect in one way or another.
@@GMCRaptor agree, the netcode is some of the worst out there. Nearly impossible to race against people on other continents. Fingers crossed that reiza get AMS2 netcode up to standard
Gaffertape made of money XD I actually find it interesting that now that we have a bunch of pilits not on iRacing's payroll this opinion is becoming much more mainstream. People like you who laways called iracing out and got shouted at by the syncopanthic community must feel a little bit vindicated at least no?
If iRacing can’t take Scott Dixon, Alexander Rossi & Conor Daly’s criticism about how an Indycar should handle on the limit, then what _are_ they using for a reference? You can’t get a more valid assessment than theirs.
It's very difficult to make a sim that's that accurate and still enjoyable. Something that matches the real car will be very hard to learn because you are missing a lot of the physical feedback that you can only get in the real world. Experienced drivers know what to expect and can fill in the missing information, but a sim has to emulate some of the feedback with only added effects through the steering, visuals and sounds. Even a complete motion rig is not going to give you everything. I use the sim to practice techniques and improve concentration and consistency... and for a bit of fun. But you can't expect too much from it. But back to the topic, I gave up on iracing and only do AC and AM2 just because of the feel, that doesn't mean they are more realistic though.
GregzVR it’s not about indycar in particular. the issue with sudden grip loss and unrecoverable spins has been going for years. the williams was widely criticized because of it
@@RedBatRacing That's not the argument though, the argument mostly is how unrealistic the tires are. Almost all of the complaints I have seen leveraged at the game's physics engine has been specifically at the tire model and how sharp the drop off is from driving at the limit and having an uncontrollable spin
I've raced for almost 15 years in real life across oval, road course, autocross, and drifting; I can confidently say that iRacing was the hardest sim to pick up because it requires overwriting so much of what you know from driving a real car. In a real car there's a zone before the absolute limit where you can feel that you're really pushing what's possible with the car; but in iRacing that zone isn't there, you're either fine or having a crash.
In my opinion Dave Kaemmers simulations from 20 years ago like Nascar 2002 and 2003 were in some cases closer to real car than Iracing now. In road courses you were able to accelerate out of the corner in a controlled drift with power on and some opposite lock, and you were able to dictate the amount of slip without fearing about dropping from a needle tip. If you went too far of course you would spin. But certainly theres a zone were you can work. Compared to some cars in Iracing today, it is very different, a needle tip feeling, when you go over it, suddenly cant save it neither with throttle or wheel.
Generally IMHO due to programmers / hardcore fans who don't actually know how to drive real performance cars and mistake difficulty for realism. iRacing isn't the only one, but it's one of the worst offenders. IRL if I was on a racing team and my car acted like it does in sim racing, I would fire my crew immediately for sending me out in a death trap. RL racers generally don't want to die on race #1 and the cars are set up to stay in control.
@@H4nnub4l Which is ironic, because Grand Prix Legends was the epitome of the car sliding it all over the place controllably. At least predictably, so you could always catch drifts.
Is there any hope of iRacing fixing the tire model or what ever causes this issue? So sad, I'm currently racing F 2.0 @ Silverstone and the car and track combo makes this issue so apparent. So frustrating. Seems to me iRacing doesn't want to fix or address the issue. All I want to hear is them say "We hear all of your complaints and are working to making it better" Instead they are silent, and seem to be trying to silence peeps addressing the issue.
Bit late to this discussion. For me, coming from GP Legends and Crammonds sims. IRacing with IRFFB (not raced it without) feels really great on the limit. @ 7:20 your comparison about slip angle and real life. Ok, so your now in that real car going through the same experience, who you going to blame when your talent runs out when you needed to have ninga reactions. The track, the car? Im not sure what some folks are looking for, but Im not sure they do either. Infinite slow slip angle in all cars? For me IRacing with IRFFB and AC feel like I am driving a racing car to which I can explore the limits of grip and know when it is just about to let go, and this is all that matters. But I've never been one for blaming the tools.
Totally agree with you about your motivation for sim racing. For me, it’s all about controlling a car at the limit. Both in sims and IRL. I’ve driven in amateur SCCA racing since the 80’s and cars simply don’t not behave IRL the way they do in iRacing. If they did, I’d be dead.
Its amazing how much traction there has been recently since all of the real drivers are on iRacing. They all complain about the same thing lol. Maybe iRacing will think about changing something...
@moi paslui The first reasonable comment on this topic... could not agree more. If they manage to bring the tire model on the level of that one of the Skip car, it will be far ahead of any other Sim. But yes, there is a long way to go, especially if you have decided to abandon empirical based models and switch to actual physical models.
This is good criticism. We need more people like Niels speaking out. Professional drivers have made many comments lately about the same issues. I really hope the iRacing team is listening and making improvements.
@@skinnybricks The problem is everyone is complaining about different things. You got on the one hand, professional drivers talking about how the cars are difficult to handle. Then you have people like Scottie, on the forums, causing 8 page forum posts about how the cars have too much slip angle when the reality is that they need more. Skip Barber is the only car that's close to reality at this point.
I really thought it was me causing the issue with the car, makes me feel better knowing its not me. I was going to give up on sim racing but for some reason this video appeared in recommended. Thank you
I just did some races in iRacing and after that in ACC and I must say: ACC is more fun and the reason is exactly like you said. You can drive more on the limit than in iRacing! You feel like a better driver and it feels way more fluid!
I've had iRacing for 5 years now. I'll stick around longer still for online multiplayer, but right now ACC is just FUN. For reasons he is explaining here. ACC's atmosphere is also excellent.
ACC feels freakin' amazing now. The updates have made it one of my favorites. Says a lot when you don't think about how it feels when driving anymore because it simply feels like it should. Sure the cars can be snappy, but there is that definite window there where you can feel the tires are about to give up, you can either ride the line, or take your chances :)
I had that "on the limit" revelation when I booted AMS1 for the first time. Coming from AC, which I had perceived to be the best due to what others had said, without forming my own opinion, it was a shock how good and natural the cars were. I could PUSH for the first time and the car *made sense*
@@namesii1880 ACC improved on the physics a LOT. Makes AC feel like an arcade game. I honestly think it's far and away the most realistic GT3 sim out there now.
Someone had to say it! I share your opinion, to be more concise, it is just not about the competition. The feeling of the car in my opinion is the most important thing to enjoy from simracing. And the best of it is that all the sims you are talking about, make you put an smile in your face (some more some less)
I went back into iracing after a few weeks away. While in Rf2, ACC and AC it’ll take me a few laps to get reacquainted, iracing it took me FOREVER to get the hang of their tyre model again. But with so many real racers giving their opinions, iracing and all the other sims is now in the perfect position to get something g right.
@@jamestaylor8577 iracing just has dated systems, unlike a lot of the newer racing games. It's all fixable stuff but noone knows if they're willing to spend the time and money on it
@@BasegFarmer it's a shame because I really do like iRacing but I really wish they would fix their stuff. Surely if they did they would make so much more money. What other Sims could you recommend?
Perfect 9:23 minutes! My conspiracy theory is that iracing devs do that to a certain degree on purpose to promote clean races. I tested iracing once again in the mx5. Within hours I had door to door races and finishes. felt amazing. But only inside a tide corridor. If you once overdrove it, you know that u are a gonner. The physics really teach u to drive clean. Is that on purpose? The fact that iracing has its superiority in one specific field, which is exactly promoting its super online race system, makes me think about it.
A downside of a sim that is easier to slide and that doesn't punish you enough with tire wear for example is you can get too 'drifting' races going on, a bit like the rF2 GT3 racing can look like at times. While I dislike iRacings handling, yes in real life you're going to be cautious most of the time. The problem is in real life you are cautious to safe the car and tires, not because you can't overdrive a bit. In iRacing you have to be cautious because you need major skills to drive over the limit. The result might be clean 'real' racing, but for the wrong reasons in my opinion.
Although your theory actually makes sense, I think it's probably just a coincidence. I suspect recent comments from pro drivers have them scrambling to try and address the sliding issue, and hopefully they'll get there sooner rather than later.
I think it is just the old thing we used to have in simracing during 2000 to 2008-ish. Back then people used to think that racing cars are super difficult to drive and it takes senna levels of skill to correct or catch a slide. In other words harder = more realistic. Back then almost all sims came with cars that went into canned spins if go like 20 degrees yaw angle. The tires just were made in such way that they lost too much grip when sliding. Laterally and longitudinally. I think some of that old issue is still with iracing whereas other sims have progressed out of that kind of car behaviour. But I also think it is intentional for iracing. Iracing wants to be more difficult than other sims to make it more of a challenge. And their approach works for some people. I know people who say they like iracing because of the challenge. Driving iracing is really difficult which for them makes it more rewarding when they can finish a race and keep the car inside its really narrow envelope for hours on end. But you also end up spinning more which to me too makes it less fun. It is not fun because it is not realistic. Unrealism can be fun too but for completely different reasons. The real life is not so snap spin. You can for example pick any racing guide book and one of the things they tell is not to overdrive because it kills your tires and puts more wear on the car. They never say don't go over the limit because you'll spin. They have pictures and graphs and plots where you want to be on the tire slip angle or slip plot to be fast. Go over it and you slide more. Go below it and you are not getting 100% out of the car or yourself. A lot of the advice in racing books for example doesn't really work in iracing because the penalties and rewards for different techniques and approaches are totally different.
@@NielsHeusinkveld I personally don't like GT3 in rF2 either, because the steering is vague and feels like navigating a boat. It's way too unforgiving especially on the Nords and no way this is anywhere realistic. I was a huge rF2-fan, but Nordschleife revealed the flaws of rF2-physics a lot. The Flat 6 mod seems also better than the Porsche Cup in rF2 either. You can drift the car if you like, but burn the tyres in no time and it's not helping the delta either. The official Cup Porsche is driving like a boat again. In the real 24h Nürburgring results the Porsche Cup did better than the GT3 in survival and got in the Top 10 afaik. No way this can be done in rF2. But to be fair, there is one GT-car in iRacing which feels great: Aston Martin GT1. Big thumbs up for this car. And the Nissan GT1 in rF2 is also WAY better as well. I don't understand why both made GT3-racing so hard. ACC made it as difficult as it should be, but for the sake of constant understeer.
iRacing fanboy here. You did really well to explain the main issue with iRacing's physics. I mainly race the Cayman and it's exactly how you describe it. Shame there's no other sim that can scratch my competitive itch atm, but there you go, you take the good with the bad. Great video Niels! Happy I'm subscribed to your channel!
I gave up racing the Cayman and stick to Main Skippy and GT3. While no means perfect, the Skippy allows you hold a slide at the limit and that means that the racing feels very natural where I am not scared every corner about crashing. GT3 (the AMG at least) while not as good as Skippy, is good enough to be at the limit without the fear I get with the Cayman. The mx5 is great as well
@@amulu10 Agree, the Skip Barber is a really fun car to drive at and over the limit on iRacing and allows you to catch some pretty big slides, it's one of the more natural cars to drive for me on iR. A lot of the slick tire cars have issues though like Niels explained.
@@r4m_thomas151 ACC has a few problems that keep me from fully investing in it: 1. Same as old AC, when you race people with over 60-70ms ping you see the cars go back and forth, never sitting still when you drive behind them, it drives me nuts and really impairs my decision making capability. 2. No level based matchemaking, too random and if you end up screwing up quali find yourself in a midfield that seem like they are doing sim racing for the first time in their life. 3. Limited content, while not as crucial as the other reasons I mentioned, it's sometimes nice to switch a series once you feel like you're fed up with a certain one.
Josef Newgarden (I like his channel, where he shows how he gets to grips with iRacing) had the same remarkts about iRacing physics, where in his experience real Indycar cars can be manhandled around tracks, and are a lot more manageable on the edge in comparison with the iRacing model, even when you take into account a lack of feel through the wheel and seat.
Yes, I think remember watching Josef Newgarden on stream also saying that he didn't want to adjust to the way iRacing's physics altered his reasoning in using certain settings for fear it would carry over into the real world.
@@SR-4-40 Dale Jr had to shelve his sim racing the last few years of his career because he actually was developing bad techniques that crept into his real world driving.
ScottOmatic But you won’t hear Jr. say anything negative about iracing.. big fanboy.. but I think he has certain interests he’s trying to protect. I just wish sometimes he would come out and say how unrealistic certain things are on it.
On iRacing you dont race, you guide the car turn after turn waiting for the car in front of you to make a mistake =). Also praying for your grip not go from 100% to 0% in 1sec where you will spin, not matter what.
This is true. For me I just drive my pace and wait for people to make mistake, because it’s hard to race side by side, because one little touch and you spin someone or you push the limit and spin. I realize Iracing gives me anxiety instead of fun while racing.
Yep, the tyre model freaks out if... a) you have a slide, even the tiniest, if you survive said slide be very careful as the tyre model is ready to pull the pin and send you into a spin b) the grip changes, again any surface change get ready for the inevitable (usually unrecoverable) spin c) you do something utterly insane like touch a kerb with a rear tyre (...), basically just pretend its wet, especially in their F1 cars
Your motivation for sim racing is pretty much identical to mine. Taking a car by the scruff of the neck and giving it some stick! I'm admittedly more interested in the prospect of driving street cars too as they are more interesting from a handling perspective. For me, it's more important that a sim's/game's physics engine is satisfying to drive than pretty much anything else. It took me a long time to realise that and I was always searching for some kind of consensus of what the "most realistic" handling sim was. I became aware some time ago just how many variables go into translating a cars handling into a sim and the amount of room for interpretation.
@@MrFrosty888 1. Hasn't been an issue since NTMv5. The issue now is that the car gets to the limit THEN dies, well, at least on V6, which the Indycar tires are on. v7 is a mixed bag because the tires seem far more unique per car than they did on v6, so v7 Skippy i golden. Same with the latest tire that came out for the porsche cup car. However, Stockcars need a little more slip capability and the GT cars either need more slip or the TCS is just boned cause I found that reducing the TCS down to like 3 made the cars infinitely more drivable.
A couple Nascar drivers have said the same thing too. All the pro drivers are saying the same thing but whether or not iracing will actually listen is another thing
Great video, Niels. Your perspective sheds light on why the cars you work on are always so joyful to drive. It's exactly this control at the limit of adhesion that creates the most connection between a sim racer and the virtual world. Probably why I'm addicted to AMS 2 at the moment. I would strongly recommend BeamNG as well, if you're passionate about the limit. PS. We've got a set of your pedals, which should be featured on the channel very soon. Can't wait.
It should be mentioned, though, that recent output from iRacing has brought substantially different (better) feeling cars/tyres, so they acknowledged their shortcomings and have been working on them.
I am gob smacked! Niels, you are so spot on. Judging from the comments our sentiments are shared by many. Perhaps iRacing will change like the world is changing now.
@@youngyingyang AMS2 is flatout garbage regarding FFB... just a bad engine, desperately trying to cover the most obvious flaws... I tried every single release, there is so much changes in FFB in that late phase of development, it is mind boggling! That simply should not happen. AMS2 physics is a cheat for cheap wheels, so that it feels "right". Sad...
We need more people speaking out like you. I've always felt that way with iracing. It's not realistic at all. Feels like I'm driving on ice. Pure garbage.
This is how I feel tbh. When you get used to iracings community (aka mostly decent races 24/7, real drivers all the time too) it’s hard to switch. even their tire model being that weird, i just find very hard to switch to another game.
The Simracing discussion about realism has a lot of the same characteristics of the audiophile discussion about Good Sound. You can have a really good speaker and amplifier, but what you are listening to is always a representation / simulation of the actual sound. Every system has its strengths and weaknesses. But most importantly, you have to remember it is not solely about the quality of the sound, but in the end it is about enjoying, experiencing, feeling, the music. This tends to get lost when talking to much and analysing too much. Every Sim has his strong points and differences between cars. Some are overall strong, some shine in some departments. There are some really strong sweet spots in combinations of tracks/ff/cars to be found in most Sims. The main thing IRacing doesn't have a lot of competition in is mainly it's online ranking and regulation. Other than that it isnt the holy grail and has its flaws and strenghts just like the other serious Sims.
deegeeooh but it’s a sim should be accurate no? If not then it’s not a sim. In music a flat sound is accurate to the way artist made it. If you want color to the sound get a home theatre if you want a “simulation” get a studio monitor. If these pros are complaining that’s it’s not like in real life then instead of sim call it sim arcade.
FINALLY! The truth comes out. I always thought it was just me. The cars in iRacing have no feel and lose grip without any sort of warning. Once they lose grip, there's no hope of driving through it. You just slide off the track. Josef Newgarden made a similar observation on TH-cam the other day. Thank you! Thank you! You have saved me from hours and hours of frustration not to mention subscription fees. I was just about to give up SIM racing until I tried several other SIMs in the past month.
Out of interest what wheel and pedals do you have. I tend to agree iRacing is unforgiving however I feel better in it with DD wheel. Still... dam hard to drive on the limit
@@CharlesK441 I had a Logitech Momo for years. When it broke I got a Thrustmaster 150. Low end yes. But I was tired of iRacing and ready to give up. Then I discovered AMS, rFactor, Project Cars and Assetto Corso. Perfectly happy with it on those SIMS. I hate to give up on iRacing in a way, but it just makes me feel bad.
Great content Niels !!! Thanks for that, the problem is people simracing try to be like the pros and want to be talentscouted and put directly on a GT3 car because look at my iRating !!! The competition is the best in iRacing but otherwise it kills the fun atm
Andre Rajkovic I agree the whole thing about people trying to pros is a problem, it’s honestly one of the reasons I don’t do many public online races anymore
This is without a doubt the most honest to god video I have ever seen on the topic of simracing. I feel 200 % the same way. So much so that I've been simracing for close to 10 years but have only raced online like 40-50 times at most. I can see the appeal of racing to have some fun and excitement but the thing that always lured me into this world is the feel of the cars and the handling. That's why I love to see road cars in simracing games. I LOVE cars. I can have a race every so often but that's not the point for me. Dank je wel Niels :)
Yes, iRacing's a great online arcade car racing game - which costs a fortune. Me? I'm not King Solomon, and I like my PC car racing to more closely simulate the real thing.
i love all Sim games, and take the approach that each game is like driving a different car which offers different feeling and requires me to adapt. i have my favourites but love them all.
I didn't think I'd watch this whole video, as I don't even play iRacing or have the desire, nor do I ever think I'll give up sim racing because I know it's awesome. I desire the same physics as you. Good video. I hope you save some people and they discover great sims
Completely agree. simracing should be about enjoying a car on the limit. Being able to play with and feel the car on the edge. Getting satisfaction from car control. It's not about driving the perfect lines lap after lap and being afraid to loose control. Reference to the RUF video is a good one!
Niels, I agree. I find iRacing frustrating because there is no sliding. My old 911, on Limerock and Watkins Glen, can be “backed in” to a corner by trail braking and lift throttle. In iRacing the 911GT3 cup (which is as close to my real car as possible) crashes in places that just doesn’t happen that way. So as a substitute for track days, it lets me push really hard to learn how to go faster, but quick runs are ruined by sudden, absolute, loss of traction. IRacing the product is awesome. But as you mention my joy comes from sliding the car and controlling rotation with the throttle. This is missing in iRacing.
Great video. There are so many great options out there for racing. Not only hardcore sims but also fun as hell arcade games like wreckfast and Forza. iRacing is just one option.
Im glad you posted this. Im an old school GPL veteran who got out of the game just because life got in the way. Now that we are all quarantined, I decided to give it a go again, but the feeling of controlling a sliding car is exactly what Im after. It's why i enjoy autocrossing my big american muscle car so much. After all the suspension tweaks and modifications Ive made to my car, I can get it to rotate on corner entry and exit exactly when and how I want it to. Controllable, and very fast, I usually am top 5 in my region in overall time in a car that people dont expect to do well - and I have it specifically set up to rotate on command. I loved that about Grand Prix Legends, and I love racing the vintage F1 cars in Assetto Corsa because they will all do that a bunch as well. As soon as I heard iRacing doesnt really encourage this, I was reconsidering signing up, and now you're confirming it. I want to play with a car on the limit, I WANT the drama of an unruly car. I think Grand Prix Legends ruined me in that regard...
I started online sim-racing with Papyrus back in the early 2000s and I was pretty good at it. Because of not working and being at home because of the pandemic, I found out about iRacing, so I bought a subscription for 3 months just to see what all the hype was about since it seemed to be so popular. Well, after spending hours and hours trying to get a feel for the cars and how they handle, I agree with everything you mentioned about the handling of the cars. Even if the car just barely gets out of shape, there is little to no correcting. You're in the wall before you know it. I'll keep practicing and try to get better, but I can't see myself entering any rookie races to test my skills any time soon. After my subscription runs out, I will not renew. I'll stick to my other hobby, riding my Harley-Davidson. Thanks for the video, Niels!
NR2003 is a pretty good suggestion for those who don't like iRacing (Even though NR2003 is made by the same creators who made iRacing, it's still fun) It's a great sim racing game. I tried it out and I personally love NR2003, it can even play on a laptop I used to have. I suggest it to those who don't like iRacing, NR2003 is great and free-to-play.
I've been watching all the sim racing the last few months, I've noticed it's Leclerc and Verstappens jedi cat reflexes and ability to drive slightly over the limit continuously which have been evident in real F1 racing which is making them naturals at sim racing. Also it's true most people driving Iracing are no where near the limits. I watched Leclerc racing Assetto Corsa Competizione, looks very very good. I only have a PS4 at the moment so I'm a bit limited in the sims I can drive but there are a few cars in Project cars 2 which are amazing to drive. The old Lotus F1 and the Panoz can both be driven at 105% all day with constant corrections. Very fun!.. There are a few cars in the original Assetto Corsa on PS4 that are good also. One of the best times I ever had sim racing was very bumpy version of Nurburgring in GT4 and also GT6 (has nice physics). I've been driving sims since REVS on the Commodore 64 in the mid 80s
Was never quick, but I raced a shifty 125 for years as a hobby. While I "don't know exactly" about iRacing, AC or others, I can tell you KartKraft is on point.
I had a T2 as my first wheel. I have been sim racing for decades, and have been an iRacing member for over seven years. But there are many good sims available for people to select, and IMO, each caters to different tastes. And just like someone like their food spicy or bland, those preferences are an individual choice. The "best" sim is the one that appeals to you the most.
Niels at home : GPL and Going faster book was the perfect combo 20 years ago :) What is funny with iR is that each build made it way more realistic ( from what i read in the forum) so was it feel bad before new build ? lol I.ve been tired of the competition stuff and switch off to other title ... what is good today is that we have plenty differents choices. Those who have race GPL for years since 1998 understand what i say. Nothing between 1998 and 2005 ( except F1 99-01 and Papyrus Nascar).
Oh the feels! I had both of those things 20 years ago also! (I think it might be more than 20 years - the brain-cells from back then aren't the most cooperative these days!). Used to have GPL LAN Parties. Good times.
Well I think this is what makes the AMS titles standout, the fine line of driving on the edge. And a fantastic engine model too among other things that standout!
I'm very excited Niels, I follow you since the time of the first Game Stock Car of Reiza and you just expressed in this little video what I've been saying for more than 12 years (I bought iRacing in 2008, if I remember correctly, shortly after coming out). It's that iRacing has a very particular physics of the cars that requires a specific learning, I've never felt it natural and it is quite far from what is the real limit of grip of the car tyres, it's as if you had to learn to drive the cars in the game itself, not in something that tries to resemble as much as possible to reality. Thanks for expressing your opinion in this regard. 👏
Hey there Niels, i love your content. Just wanted to know if you could hint me in the direction of the books you got there on your Desk? Especially the one called Faster!
I took a break in January from iracing because of the Audi GT3 suddenly snapping away. I was always on edge not knowing when it would do it entering a corner and when it would happen I’d either back it off the track or correct and it’d catch like you are saying and then go head on off the track. Just got ACC and haven’t spent much time on it, but already that Audi is way better and more fun than the iracing version.
those money maker fukers will not change. iRacing is VALVE of simracing basicly, and their game is this CSGO that just keeps brining money. Dont change it, cause there is risk You will broke it ;)
@@ADAKAR83 iracing is constantly working in make a better sim , 2 years ago was a very little company , now is way bigger and they are work a lot more , big improvment is incoming
You know the guy is serious business when Grand Prix Legends stands on the shelf 😄. Anyway it's spot on. I have been driving iRacing since beta and 5 years in a row, and I got tired of not being able to control the slides. After I stopped, and have been renewing a couple of times to check if it's getting better, but with no luck. Everything else around iRacing works very well.
I agree with you 100 percent. I have always driven a lot of AC and I am a big ACC fan now. The competition system in iRacing is very good, but I never could get used to the handling of the cars in iRacing right. In my opinion it is not 100% possible to find the absolute limit in iRacing as it is in reality. Simulations like rF2, AC and ACC are much better to finde the limit of the car and yourself.
You exactly pointed out what was on my mind for some time. I tried Iracing and it is really a thrill to ride with those safety and iratings, but so unforgiving. Stepped away from that now. I enjoy upgrading and fine tuning my sim gear and then hotlapping in sims like acc, r3e and now ams2. I barely race against humans. But who is to judge what I like the most in simracing? This is what simracing is for me at the moment, and I really enjoy it this way. Veel succes met je bedrijf Niels
Great video Niels! Very brave of you to speak from the heart when it is not going to be well received by some in the relatively small sim racing industry. I totally agree, there are some other great sims available and people should try them and enjoy this great hobby and not feel iRacing is the only worthwhile sim. Despite the fact that I am no longer an iRacing subscriber, and agree that the sensation of grip is too unforgiving, iRacing does do a lot of things very well, as you stated. Hopefully they will turn some of the current criticism they are getting into a positive and learn from it and improve their product.
Fantastic video Niels. Suffice to say, the marketing for iRacing is way better than the actual product; and by product i mean that "Tire Model" Dave Kaemmer has now allegedly been working on for the better part of 30 years, 30 YEARS !!
The worst thing is not having a feeling of lateral grip on the steering wheel, the wheels do not stick to the ground, they have to fix the wheels and the way to feel the weight on the steering wheel, the rest is perfect
The difficulty, almost impossibility, of controlling a slide in iRacing is SUPER frustrating!! And it's why you get so many people wrecking other's races! I battled with the FR2 for quite a while and then jumped back into ACC and was like, WOW, I can control this car SO easily! I'm miffed that they don't improve this aspect as it appears to be such a common complaint! Anyway, fun video - thanks!
Good and entertaining video! I like iRacing though, actually, I like all the sims! Noone is perfect, they all have pros and cons.😁 Ps: I love your pedals!!😍😘
Just bought the Mustang on iRacing and the base line setup is very snappy, then you work the setup to correct it so the car never slide again. And thats it
Awesome content! Finally, i´ve heard from someone that really knows about it , what i feel for years. Driving iracing for me is like a 'drive a spaceship' on the track...
Niels i can appreciate your honest sharing of your opinion , so i would love to know what simulator satisfies your on the edge control feeling the most if you picked only one ?
Partly this is why I bought LFS this morning :) iRacing really need to address this ongoing sudden oversteer grip loss issue and dynamic track not really working well enough.
Are you mad? £36 for a sim that's been in development hell since 2008! £30 would have got you AC Ultimate Edition, or Automobilista Ultimate Edition for the cost of an S2 license.
Almost 1200 hours on AC not to mention others, and semi new to iracing. Its good to hear this, and it lines up completely with my time in iracing. Seems like iracing tries to have a stanglehold on what people can and cant say about their sim. Silly. Also you mentioned car control and driving near the limit... there's something very special about the yellowbird at nords in AC.
Great video! I often say this but iRacing has one big unique selling point. The online competition. You can get great racing with close fights and it all is for points and rating. After the race you can see all the small detailed statistics about the race of both yourself and every other driver who was in the race. For a person who loves numbers and racing this is amazing! If any of the other sims launced something similar it would take customers from iRacing. I bet even GT Sport being far from a full fledged PC sim has taken a few of them.
Good video, I agree that life is not just in one game (Whichever it is). Right now many games have rating systems with great driving experience, ACC, RaceRoom as two examples I play right now.
Good points brought up here. For me, the one that feels the most like I am actually controlling a car is Raceroom Racing Experience. I know they are lacking some details (but getting there in that dept) but already the overall feel just feels RIGHT to me.
Something is also very important: If FOV and cam isn’t greatly setted up, you’ll not be able to understand car movement, resulting in reacting everytime out of the car limit. Also, if you don’t have any movement on your setup, you’ll hardly be able to know where the limit is, and will react too late. That’s why it’s harder than IRL. I think that the problem stands somehow in this. iRacing uses data and there’s a lot of people saying they work close to cars factoring saying that iRacing is making the physic perfectly. So I don’t know... I’ll try this by myself, but what’s sure is that you have to be sure to setup everything extremely fine before getting a good feedback. And most of the simracers uses a badly settup up fov and cam
An interesting view of sim racing in general. I am a long time sim racer , so-so at best. iRacing is / was My main sim , but I have ran many sims. iRacing is far above others in most aspects , one of the main thing I wish they would address is the FFB. If i could get Automobilista FFB in iRacing I would be a very happy camper.I liked this video as I believe that experience in any car , on any track in any sim is beneficial for a sim racer. I always enjoy hearing others point of view on different titles ect. Stay safe & looking forward to Your next upload.
You will never ever have that FFB in Iracing, neither will you have good physics or good graphics, it's a reality I realised years ago, GT3 is the main series racer in iracing, just look at ACC compared to iracing, different level entirely with everything, please wake up and leave iracing!
Pals, how about old iracing? Whats the thoughts about its tyre model? Was that better in you opinion? That ir can be found on the torrents bay the way and be played not online of course, but still) Got to find out it was not that slippy much.
I feel your pain, its the low speed spins that anger me when the car just does a 360 on the spot and not for forgetting the tank slapper's you get when you think you've saved it and bam you're dead, only thing that keeps me there is the online racing.
Got to say it again. Great video. I think guys like Niels can quite reasonably justify when realism is so much overcooked like in iR, and thats half of a thing. Now to secure direction, to center it to "the truth", we also must talk openly about things that are too easy, or too fortunate in various simulations, cars. Because only having difficulty as an issue won't do much good without building some kind of doubt border for stuff that is (likely) too easy too.
The lighter oval cars on iRacing are actually fun to drive on road courses! They don't have such a 'knife edge' type of peak grip that you get on almost all the road cars. The super late model and modified are my favorites, but the legends are also super fun! You can actually get those cars to rotate under power, or through trail braking and have fun. With almost every other car on the service I use trailbraking because they understeer so bad... a lot of times the understeer is setup related, but it's almost impossible to be consistently fast with a car that likes to oversteer in iRacing. I have some setups for the modifieds and super late model on some videos on my channel if you wanna try them out. I especially agree with the floaty feeling after catching a slide in iracing. A decent amount of the time I can catch the initial slide, without over correcting, and have the car going straight but then for what feels like a whole second afterwards there are like tank slapper aftershocks that make no sense. The car is already going straight and should have settled down by then, but some little tiny input will then send the car right into a wall. All my time in iRacing has helped me to develop very quick hands that have come in handy on track in real life, though! Also the competition you can get on the service just can't be beat!
Hey! I'm an avid sim-racer and am currently pursuing a PhD in physics at Chalmers University in Sweden... I study light-matter interactions, but I've got a ton of knowledge about physics in general, especially how to simulate complex systems. I also race a good bit in real life! How did you get into the world of physics programming, and how can I get into it?
Hey Niels! I am the guy who talked to you about your Fiesta on the stairs last SimRacingExpo in Germany. I really want you to try some of the less famous cars on iracing, with the correct ffb settings and the correct setups to change your mind a bit about this topic. Of course, as you said, there are many things quite off, but it's not that bad if you know which series worth your time. Hit me whenever you want for any questions. Cheers.
Oh, did you express your condolences? That honestly touched me a bit, no matter how stupid that sounds since we were talking about a 18 year old rusty Ford Fiesta. :-)
@@NielsHeusinkveld Exactly, buddy! I thought it would be touching and funny at the same time. Just the fact you remember it it's a win, I guess. :D Back to topic, I race lotus49 on iracing and I'm sideways 90% of the time with that monster. Sure it's not easy to dial everything up, but it's possible, and when you do it's pure joy. Check out our last race: th-cam.com/video/akw9_8GbqbE/w-d-xo.html
I’ve never tried I-racing, I don’t have a permanent rig, so race more casually. There pay to play model has always put me off to be honest. I did want to say though my friends setup has a set of your racing pedals that we picked up from daemon tweeks, they are really worth the money. Just wanted to take the time to say thank you. Great kit 👍🏻
Ironically, GPL was also a progenitor of the "if it's impossible to drive, it must be realistic" car handling ethos, and remains beloved for that very reason. Also very ironic.
Yep, the most important sim in my life for sure! And completely undriveable beyond a certain point with logical opposite lock. But there were no alternatives and everything else more than made up for it. :-)
Can't agree more - many times I've decided to go back to iRacing for the competition side of things, and just as many times I've cancelled my sub and gone back to Automobilista because it's just way more fun to drive.
GT Sport is great for online racing, hard core sim racers carry on about the driving views people use but each to their own we all enjoy our Esports for different reasons
![Are You Using The Throttle all WRONG? [Sim Racing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YQV3zZuCtkw/mqdefault.jpg)
You can tell someone takes simracing serious when even his shelves are made out aluminum profile. :)
For iRacing Modify APP.Ini File Because iRacing Are For The Best Sim Racers if Not Get ACC Asseto Corsa Competizione If You in Console Get Playstation 4 GT Sport With A Mid Wheel Setup And Pedals, And For Niels Heusinveld...Well Blyat ! Theirs Send Me Heusinveld Ultimate's...Keeps Pressing The Out Of Stock Button And Neither Virbil Throttle For Sim Flight
@@user-mr9jz3ju5 ok
@@user-mr9jz3ju5 based
Imagine if Assetto Corsa, AMS or R factor had the same online setup as iRacing. No one would use iRacing.
Hopefully assetto corsa is listening!
absolutely not a single person.
i believe that's what we are all wishing will happen, which i still believe one day it will happen, but racing will always be around because they have their cult
The people at Kunos make a great game, but they are far from polished. Those whom spend many hours on ACC such as I do will tell you they are far from perfect in one way or another.
@@GMCRaptor agree, the netcode is some of the worst out there. Nearly impossible to race against people on other continents. Fingers crossed that reiza get AMS2 netcode up to standard
This was the last video Niels made before iRacing used the GafferTape to silence him.
'Heusinkveld; official pedal supplier for iRacing'
Lol
Gaffertape made of money XD
I actually find it interesting that now that we have a bunch of pilits not on iRacing's payroll this opinion is becoming much more mainstream.
People like you who laways called iracing out and got shouted at by the syncopanthic community must feel a little bit vindicated at least no?
If iRacing can’t take Scott Dixon, Alexander Rossi & Conor Daly’s criticism about how an Indycar should handle on the limit, then what _are_ they using for a reference? You can’t get a more valid assessment than theirs.
Scott Speed probably
It's very difficult to make a sim that's that accurate and still enjoyable. Something that matches the real car will be very hard to learn because you are missing a lot of the physical feedback that you can only get in the real world. Experienced drivers know what to expect and can fill in the missing information, but a sim has to emulate some of the feedback with only added effects through the steering, visuals and sounds. Even a complete motion rig is not going to give you everything. I use the sim to practice techniques and improve concentration and consistency... and for a bit of fun. But you can't expect too much from it. But back to the topic, I gave up on iracing and only do AC and AM2 just because of the feel, that doesn't mean they are more realistic though.
GregzVR it’s not about indycar in particular. the issue with sudden grip loss and unrecoverable spins has been going for years. the williams was widely criticized because of it
B Faria exactly, I only drive the Audi in GT3 and it is horrible about the rear stepping out and not being able to catch it
@@RedBatRacing That's not the argument though, the argument mostly is how unrealistic the tires are. Almost all of the complaints I have seen leveraged at the game's physics engine has been specifically at the tire model and how sharp the drop off is from driving at the limit and having an uncontrollable spin
I've raced for almost 15 years in real life across oval, road course, autocross, and drifting; I can confidently say that iRacing was the hardest sim to pick up because it requires overwriting so much of what you know from driving a real car. In a real car there's a zone before the absolute limit where you can feel that you're really pushing what's possible with the car; but in iRacing that zone isn't there, you're either fine or having a crash.
In my opinion Dave Kaemmers simulations from 20 years ago like Nascar 2002 and 2003 were in some cases closer to real car than Iracing now. In road courses you were able to accelerate out of the corner in a controlled drift with power on and some opposite lock, and you were able to dictate the amount of slip without fearing about dropping from a needle tip. If you went too far of course you would spin. But certainly theres a zone were you can work. Compared to some cars in Iracing today, it is very different, a needle tip feeling, when you go over it, suddenly cant save it neither with throttle or wheel.
As an Indycar driver stated last time: you can just not hammer the cars in iRacing.
Generally IMHO due to programmers / hardcore fans who don't actually know how to drive real performance cars and mistake difficulty for realism. iRacing isn't the only one, but it's one of the worst offenders. IRL if I was on a racing team and my car acted like it does in sim racing, I would fire my crew immediately for sending me out in a death trap. RL racers generally don't want to die on race #1 and the cars are set up to stay in control.
@@H4nnub4l Which is ironic, because Grand Prix Legends was the epitome of the car sliding it all over the place controllably. At least predictably, so you could always catch drifts.
Thank you. Now I know not to put money in iRacing. I want realism. I like Automobilista.
Thanks everybody for being mostly polite and going easy on the throwing of rotten fruits and vegetables at each other or myself.
Alright, you asked for it...
SPLAT.
Is there any hope of iRacing fixing the tire model or what ever causes this issue? So sad, I'm currently racing F 2.0 @ Silverstone and the car and track combo makes this issue so apparent. So frustrating. Seems to me iRacing doesn't want to fix or address the issue. All I want to hear is them say "We hear all of your complaints and are working to making it better" Instead they are silent, and seem to be trying to silence peeps addressing the issue.
I'm actually going to need that cabbage back mate if you don't mind?
Bit late to this discussion. For me, coming from GP Legends and Crammonds sims. IRacing with IRFFB (not raced it without) feels really great on the limit. @ 7:20 your comparison about slip angle and real life. Ok, so your now in that real car going through the same experience, who you going to blame when your talent runs out when you needed to have ninga reactions. The track, the car? Im not sure what some folks are looking for, but Im not sure they do either. Infinite slow slip angle in all cars? For me IRacing with IRFFB and AC feel like I am driving a racing car to which I can explore the limits of grip and know when it is just about to let go, and this is all that matters. But I've never been one for blaming the tools.
Totally agree with you about your motivation for sim racing. For me, it’s all about controlling a car at the limit. Both in sims and IRL. I’ve driven in amateur SCCA racing since the 80’s and cars simply don’t not behave IRL the way they do in iRacing. If they did, I’d be dead.
Which sim have you found to be most realistic?
Its amazing how much traction there has been recently since all of the real drivers are on iRacing. They all complain about the same thing lol. Maybe iRacing will think about changing something...
Veosyn exactly. They are making so much with all the new additions. Hopefully they do what needs to get done.
they are just thinking about the next car to launch (with same phisics of course).
@@DEracingx Yes, that's why they released a new porsche tire just like last week. Because they're ONLY thinking of the next car to launch...
@moi paslui yea true
@moi paslui The first reasonable comment on this topic... could not agree more. If they manage to bring the tire model on the level of that one of the Skip car, it will be far ahead of any other Sim. But yes, there is a long way to go, especially if you have decided to abandon empirical based models and switch to actual physical models.
This is good criticism. We need more people like Niels speaking out. Professional drivers have made many comments lately about the same issues. I really hope the iRacing team is listening and making improvements.
they are so busy counting dollars, bro.
@@DEracingx Yeahhh. You're absolutely right. They are certainly raking it in right now too.
@@skinnybricks The problem is everyone is complaining about different things.
You got on the one hand, professional drivers talking about how the cars are difficult to handle. Then you have people like Scottie, on the forums, causing 8 page forum posts about how the cars have too much slip angle when the reality is that they need more. Skip Barber is the only car that's close to reality at this point.
@@skinnybricks yeah everytime I get on atleast 13,000 people online used to be around 5-6,000
@@AaronVoegele in the past week i entered in some races on Brands Hatch with the Skip Barber. and it was by far the best races that i had in Iracing.
I really thought it was me causing the issue with the car, makes me feel better knowing its not me. I was going to give up on sim racing but for some reason this video appeared in recommended. Thank you
As a side note: great to see Grand Prix Legends on such a prominent place on the shelf 👍
Too right. Loved that game.
I just did some races in iRacing and after that in ACC and I must say: ACC is more fun and the reason is exactly like you said. You can drive more on the limit than in iRacing! You feel like a better driver and it feels way more fluid!
I've had iRacing for 5 years now. I'll stick around longer still for online multiplayer, but right now ACC is just FUN. For reasons he is explaining here. ACC's atmosphere is also excellent.
ACC feels freakin' amazing now. The updates have made it one of my favorites. Says a lot when you don't think about how it feels when driving anymore because it simply feels like it should. Sure the cars can be snappy, but there is that definite window there where you can feel the tires are about to give up, you can either ride the line, or take your chances :)
At the moment I would not recommend using GT3/GTE cars in iRacing... the models are still in terrible shape.
I had that "on the limit" revelation when I booted AMS1 for the first time. Coming from AC, which I had perceived to be the best due to what others had said, without forming my own opinion, it was a shock how good and natural the cars were. I could PUSH for the first time and the car *made sense*
@Andrei C They do an better job with every update. Was racing P3 with Gamermuscle today and the car handles amazingly
@@BlastBeatsFTW Even the AC physics dev has said that AC physics could be a lot better :D
@@namesii1880 ACC improved on the physics a LOT. Makes AC feel like an arcade game. I honestly think it's far and away the most realistic GT3 sim out there now.
@@damncritics Agreed on ACC being best for GT3
@J Thorsson assetto corsa competizione
Someone had to say it! I share your opinion, to be more concise, it is just not about the competition. The feeling of the car in my opinion is the most important thing to enjoy from simracing.
And the best of it is that all the sims you are talking about, make you put an smile in your face (some more some less)
I went back into iracing after a few weeks away. While in Rf2, ACC and AC it’ll take me a few laps to get reacquainted, iracing it took me FOREVER to get the hang of their tyre model again.
But with so many real racers giving their opinions, iracing and all the other sims is now in the perfect position to get something g right.
is iRacing not realistic compared to other sims? is it better or worse?
@@jamestaylor8577 iracing just has dated systems, unlike a lot of the newer racing games.
It's all fixable stuff but noone knows if they're willing to spend the time and money on it
@@BasegFarmer it's a shame because I really do like iRacing but I really wish they would fix their stuff. Surely if they did they would make so much more money. What other Sims could you recommend?
@@BasegFarmer Its outdated...no other way to put it.
Perfect 9:23 minutes! My conspiracy theory is that iracing devs do that to a certain degree on purpose to promote clean races. I tested iracing once again in the mx5. Within hours I had door to door races and finishes. felt amazing. But only inside a tide corridor. If you once overdrove it, you know that u are a gonner. The physics really teach u to drive clean. Is that on purpose? The fact that iracing has its superiority in one specific field, which is exactly promoting its super online race system, makes me think about it.
A downside of a sim that is easier to slide and that doesn't punish you enough with tire wear for example is you can get too 'drifting' races going on, a bit like the rF2 GT3 racing can look like at times. While I dislike iRacings handling, yes in real life you're going to be cautious most of the time. The problem is in real life you are cautious to safe the car and tires, not because you can't overdrive a bit. In iRacing you have to be cautious because you need major skills to drive over the limit. The result might be clean 'real' racing, but for the wrong reasons in my opinion.
Although your theory actually makes sense, I think it's probably just a coincidence.
I suspect recent comments from pro drivers have them scrambling to try and address the sliding issue, and hopefully they'll get there sooner rather than later.
I think it is just the old thing we used to have in simracing during 2000 to 2008-ish. Back then people used to think that racing cars are super difficult to drive and it takes senna levels of skill to correct or catch a slide. In other words harder = more realistic. Back then almost all sims came with cars that went into canned spins if go like 20 degrees yaw angle. The tires just were made in such way that they lost too much grip when sliding. Laterally and longitudinally. I think some of that old issue is still with iracing whereas other sims have progressed out of that kind of car behaviour.
But I also think it is intentional for iracing. Iracing wants to be more difficult than other sims to make it more of a challenge. And their approach works for some people. I know people who say they like iracing because of the challenge. Driving iracing is really difficult which for them makes it more rewarding when they can finish a race and keep the car inside its really narrow envelope for hours on end. But you also end up spinning more which to me too makes it less fun. It is not fun because it is not realistic. Unrealism can be fun too but for completely different reasons.
The real life is not so snap spin. You can for example pick any racing guide book and one of the things they tell is not to overdrive because it kills your tires and puts more wear on the car. They never say don't go over the limit because you'll spin. They have pictures and graphs and plots where you want to be on the tire slip angle or slip plot to be fast. Go over it and you slide more. Go below it and you are not getting 100% out of the car or yourself. A lot of the advice in racing books for example doesn't really work in iracing because the penalties and rewards for different techniques and approaches are totally different.
@@NielsHeusinkveld I personally don't like GT3 in rF2 either, because the steering is vague and feels like navigating a boat. It's way too unforgiving especially on the Nords and no way this is anywhere realistic. I was a huge rF2-fan, but Nordschleife revealed the flaws of rF2-physics a lot. The Flat 6 mod seems also better than the Porsche Cup in rF2 either. You can drift the car if you like, but burn the tyres in no time and it's not helping the delta either. The official Cup Porsche is driving like a boat again. In the real 24h Nürburgring results the Porsche Cup did better than the GT3 in survival and got in the Top 10 afaik. No way this can be done in rF2.
But to be fair, there is one GT-car in iRacing which feels great: Aston Martin GT1. Big thumbs up for this car. And the Nissan GT1 in rF2 is also WAY better as well. I don't understand why both made GT3-racing so hard. ACC made it as difficult as it should be, but for the sake of constant understeer.
I think they do it so you give up and try ( buy) another series. Its hard to drive clean if 180 ing it all over track.
iRacing fanboy here. You did really well to explain the main issue with iRacing's physics. I mainly race the Cayman and it's exactly how you describe it.
Shame there's no other sim that can scratch my competitive itch atm, but there you go, you take the good with the bad.
Great video Niels! Happy I'm subscribed to your channel!
I gave up racing the Cayman and stick to Main Skippy and GT3. While no means perfect, the Skippy allows you hold a slide at the limit and that means that the racing feels very natural where I am not scared every corner about crashing. GT3 (the AMG at least) while not as good as Skippy, is good enough to be at the limit without the fear I get with the Cayman. The mx5 is great as well
@@amulu10 Agree, the Skip Barber is a really fun car to drive at and over the limit on iRacing and allows you to catch some pretty big slides, it's one of the more natural cars to drive for me on iR. A lot of the slick tire cars have issues though like Niels explained.
" Shame there's no other sim that can scratch my competitive itch atm " In a nutshell....................Nuthin more to say.
You also have acc
@@r4m_thomas151 ACC has a few problems that keep me from fully investing in it:
1. Same as old AC, when you race people with over 60-70ms ping you see the cars go back and forth, never sitting still when you drive behind them, it drives me nuts and really impairs my decision making capability.
2. No level based matchemaking, too random and if you end up screwing up quali find yourself in a midfield that seem like they are doing sim racing for the first time in their life.
3. Limited content, while not as crucial as the other reasons I mentioned, it's sometimes nice to switch a series once you feel like you're fed up with a certain one.
I can relate to that so much, that's what got me to simracing and why I don't even want to get to iRacing, I am here to drive a car
Is iracing really far off from real racing physics? All i know is iracing
Josef Newgarden (I like his channel, where he shows how he gets to grips with iRacing) had the same remarkts about iRacing physics, where in his experience real Indycar cars can be manhandled around tracks, and are a lot more manageable on the edge in comparison with the iRacing model, even when you take into account a lack of feel through the wheel and seat.
Six Pack Pilot Josef has a great channel.
Yes, I think remember watching Josef Newgarden on stream also saying that he didn't want to adjust to the way iRacing's physics altered his reasoning in using certain settings for fear it would carry over into the real world.
It is likely that he underestimates a lack of feel.
@@SR-4-40 Dale Jr had to shelve his sim racing the last few years of his career because he actually was developing bad techniques that crept into his real world driving.
ScottOmatic But you won’t hear Jr. say anything negative about iracing.. big fanboy.. but I think he has certain interests he’s trying to protect. I just wish sometimes he would come out and say how unrealistic certain things are on it.
On iRacing you dont race, you guide the car turn after turn waiting for the car in front of you to make a mistake =). Also praying for your grip not go from 100% to 0% in 1sec where you will spin, not matter what.
truth
This is true. For me I just drive my pace and wait for people to make mistake, because it’s hard to race side by side, because one little touch and you spin someone or you push the limit and spin. I realize Iracing gives me anxiety instead of fun while racing.
Yep, the tyre model freaks out if...
a) you have a slide, even the tiniest, if you survive said slide be very careful as the tyre model is ready to pull the pin and send you into a spin
b) the grip changes, again any surface change get ready for the inevitable (usually unrecoverable) spin
c) you do something utterly insane like touch a kerb with a rear tyre (...), basically just pretend its wet, especially in their F1 cars
The problem was described very well by one of the pro drivers. "The back end of the car seems like it's not connected to the front end."
Your motivation for sim racing is pretty much identical to mine. Taking a car by the scruff of the neck and giving it some stick! I'm admittedly more interested in the prospect of driving street cars too as they are more interesting from a handling perspective. For me, it's more important that a sim's/game's physics engine is satisfying to drive than pretty much anything else. It took me a long time to realise that and I was always searching for some kind of consensus of what the "most realistic" handling sim was. I became aware some time ago just how many variables go into translating a cars handling into a sim and the amount of room for interpretation.
The rear tires physic is too sensitive indeed in iracing, an indycar driver have also confirmed that some time ago
Newgarden even did a whole complaint segment about it recently too
PowerFuel ice racing
@@MrFrosty888 1. Hasn't been an issue since NTMv5. The issue now is that the car gets to the limit THEN dies, well, at least on V6, which the Indycar tires are on. v7 is a mixed bag because the tires seem far more unique per car than they did on v6, so v7 Skippy i golden. Same with the latest tire that came out for the porsche cup car. However, Stockcars need a little more slip capability and the GT cars either need more slip or the TCS is just boned cause I found that reducing the TCS down to like 3 made the cars infinitely more drivable.
Not from indy, but Nicki Thimm said some things about the rear tires.
A couple Nascar drivers have said the same thing too. All the pro drivers are saying the same thing but whether or not iracing will actually listen is another thing
iRacing with the intuitive and believable handling of AMS would be Simracing-heaven.
Everyone would go to iRacing and with good reasons
And graphics of ACC!
@@Cagefighter That blurry mess? No thanks
Omg yes
@@Filip_Phreriks switch off AA and set resolution at 100%, no blur...
Great video, Niels. Your perspective sheds light on why the cars you work on are always so joyful to drive. It's exactly this control at the limit of adhesion that creates the most connection between a sim racer and the virtual world. Probably why I'm addicted to AMS 2 at the moment. I would strongly recommend BeamNG as well, if you're passionate about the limit.
PS. We've got a set of your pedals, which should be featured on the channel very soon. Can't wait.
It should be mentioned, though, that recent output from iRacing has brought substantially different (better) feeling cars/tyres, so they acknowledged their shortcomings and have been working on them.
I am gob smacked! Niels, you are so spot on. Judging from the comments our sentiments are shared by many. Perhaps iRacing will change like the world is changing now.
Iracing needs to learn from ACC driving style and ACC needs to learn from iracings online format
They need to learning from AMS2! ACC tyres are great but suspension/rack feeling is missing... especially when you compare to AMS2.
Imo ACC sucks....the original AC is miles ahead..
@@Driftuner well thats not true, the feeling of spinning out in the wet is unmatched.
Couldn’t have said it any better
@@youngyingyang AMS2 is flatout garbage regarding FFB... just a bad engine, desperately trying to cover the most obvious flaws... I tried every single release, there is so much changes in FFB in that late phase of development, it is mind boggling! That simply should not happen. AMS2 physics is a cheat for cheap wheels, so that it feels "right". Sad...
We need more people speaking out like you. I've always felt that way with iracing. It's not realistic at all. Feels like I'm driving on ice. Pure garbage.
This is how I feel tbh. When you get used to iracings community (aka mostly decent races 24/7, real drivers all the time too) it’s hard to switch. even their tire model being that weird, i just find very hard to switch to another game.
The Simracing discussion about realism has a lot of the same characteristics of the audiophile discussion about Good Sound. You can have a really good speaker and amplifier, but what you are listening to is always a representation / simulation of the actual sound. Every system has its strengths and weaknesses. But most importantly, you have to remember it is not solely about the quality of the sound, but in the end it is about enjoying, experiencing, feeling, the music. This tends to get lost when talking to much and analysing too much. Every Sim has his strong points and differences between cars. Some are overall strong, some shine in some departments. There are some really strong sweet spots in combinations of tracks/ff/cars to be found in most Sims. The main thing IRacing doesn't have a lot of competition in is mainly it's online ranking and regulation. Other than that it isnt the holy grail and has its flaws and strenghts just like the other serious Sims.
deegeeooh but it’s a sim should be accurate no? If not then it’s not a sim. In music a flat sound is accurate to the way artist made it. If you want color to the sound get a home theatre if you want a “simulation” get a studio monitor. If these pros are complaining that’s it’s not like in real life then instead of sim call it sim arcade.
FINALLY! The truth comes out. I always thought it was just me. The cars in iRacing have no feel and lose grip without any sort of warning. Once they lose grip, there's no hope of driving through it. You just slide off the track. Josef Newgarden made a similar observation on TH-cam the other day. Thank you! Thank you! You have saved me from hours and hours of frustration not to mention subscription fees. I was just about to give up SIM racing until I tried several other SIMs in the past month.
Out of interest what wheel and pedals do you have. I tend to agree iRacing is unforgiving however I feel better in it with DD wheel. Still... dam hard to drive on the limit
@@CharlesK441 I had a Logitech Momo for years. When it broke I got a Thrustmaster 150. Low end yes. But I was tired of iRacing and ready to give up. Then I discovered AMS, rFactor, Project Cars and Assetto Corso. Perfectly happy with it on those SIMS. I hate to give up on iRacing in a way, but it just makes me feel bad.
Nice to see GPL on the shelf! Papyrus made the best pc games in the late 90s.
um LATE 80s s they made them !!!!! Nascar 2003 is the STOLEN GAME ENGINE behind IRACING
Great content Niels !!! Thanks for that, the problem is people simracing try to be like the pros and want to be talentscouted and put directly on a GT3 car because look at my iRating !!! The competition is the best in iRacing but otherwise it kills the fun atm
Andre Rajkovic I agree the whole thing about people trying to pros is a problem, it’s honestly one of the reasons I don’t do many public online races anymore
This is without a doubt the most honest to god video I have ever seen on the topic of simracing. I feel 200 % the same way. So much so that I've been simracing for close to 10 years but have only raced online like 40-50 times at most. I can see the appeal of racing to have some fun and excitement but the thing that always lured me into this world is the feel of the cars and the handling. That's why I love to see road cars in simracing games. I LOVE cars. I can have a race every so often but that's not the point for me. Dank je wel Niels :)
If I haven't quitted everytime @GamerMuscleVideos kills me on track, you shouldn't quit simracing because of iracing
Hey, i like your channel 😃
Yes, iRacing's a great online arcade car racing game - which costs a fortune. Me? I'm not King Solomon, and I like my PC car racing to more closely simulate the real thing.
i love all Sim games, and take the approach that each game is like driving a different car which offers different feeling and requires me to adapt. i have my favourites but love them all.
I didn't think I'd watch this whole video, as I don't even play iRacing or have the desire, nor do I ever think I'll give up sim racing because I know it's awesome. I desire the same physics as you. Good video. I hope you save some people and they discover great sims
Completely agree. simracing should be about enjoying a car on the limit. Being able to play with and feel the car on the edge. Getting satisfaction from car control. It's not about driving the perfect lines lap after lap and being afraid to loose control. Reference to the RUF video is a good one!
Somehow each time I see you you look younger than before, it should go the other way around Niels just like with the rest of us!
Niels, I agree. I find iRacing frustrating because there is no sliding. My old 911, on Limerock and Watkins Glen, can be “backed in” to a corner by trail braking and lift throttle. In iRacing the 911GT3 cup (which is as close to my real car as possible) crashes in places that just doesn’t happen that way. So as a substitute for track days, it lets me push really hard to learn how to go faster, but quick runs are ruined by sudden, absolute, loss of traction.
IRacing the product is awesome. But as you mention my joy comes from sliding the car and controlling rotation with the throttle. This is missing in iRacing.
Great video. There are so many great options out there for racing. Not only hardcore sims but also fun as hell arcade games like wreckfast and Forza. iRacing is just one option.
Im glad you posted this. Im an old school GPL veteran who got out of the game just because life got in the way. Now that we are all quarantined, I decided to give it a go again, but the feeling of controlling a sliding car is exactly what Im after. It's why i enjoy autocrossing my big american muscle car so much. After all the suspension tweaks and modifications Ive made to my car, I can get it to rotate on corner entry and exit exactly when and how I want it to. Controllable, and very fast, I usually am top 5 in my region in overall time in a car that people dont expect to do well - and I have it specifically set up to rotate on command. I loved that about Grand Prix Legends, and I love racing the vintage F1 cars in Assetto Corsa because they will all do that a bunch as well. As soon as I heard iRacing doesnt really encourage this, I was reconsidering signing up, and now you're confirming it. I want to play with a car on the limit, I WANT the drama of an unruly car. I think Grand Prix Legends ruined me in that regard...
I started online sim-racing with Papyrus back in the early 2000s and I was pretty good at it. Because of not working and being at home because of the pandemic, I found out about iRacing, so I bought a subscription for 3 months just to see what all the hype was about since it seemed to be so popular. Well, after spending hours and hours trying to get a feel for the cars and how they handle, I agree with everything you mentioned about the handling of the cars. Even if the car just barely gets out of shape, there is little to no correcting. You're in the wall before you know it. I'll keep practicing and try to get better, but I can't see myself entering any rookie races to test my skills any time soon. After my subscription runs out, I will not renew. I'll stick to my other hobby, riding my Harley-Davidson. Thanks for the video, Niels!
NR2003 is a pretty good suggestion for those who don't like iRacing (Even though NR2003 is made by the same creators who made iRacing, it's still fun) It's a great sim racing game. I tried it out and I personally love NR2003, it can even play on a laptop I used to have. I suggest it to those who don't like iRacing, NR2003 is great and free-to-play.
I've been watching all the sim racing the last few months, I've noticed it's Leclerc and Verstappens jedi cat reflexes and ability to drive slightly over the limit continuously which have been evident in real F1 racing which is making them naturals at sim racing. Also it's true most people driving Iracing are no where near the limits. I watched Leclerc racing Assetto Corsa Competizione, looks very very good. I only have a PS4 at the moment so I'm a bit limited in the sims I can drive but there are a few cars in Project cars 2 which are amazing to drive. The old Lotus F1 and the Panoz can both be driven at 105% all day with constant corrections. Very fun!.. There are a few cars in the original Assetto Corsa on PS4 that are good also. One of the best times I ever had sim racing was very bumpy version of Nurburgring in GT4 and also GT6 (has nice physics). I've been driving sims since REVS on the Commodore 64 in the mid 80s
Was never quick, but I raced a shifty 125 for years as a hobby. While I "don't know exactly" about iRacing, AC or others, I can tell you KartKraft is on point.
I had a T2 as my first wheel. I have been sim racing for decades, and have been an iRacing member for over seven years. But there are many good sims available for people to select, and IMO, each caters to different tastes. And just like someone like their food spicy or bland, those preferences are an individual choice. The "best" sim is the one that appeals to you the most.
Great video Neils. You've hit the nail on the head. I love the online infrastructure of iRacing but the physics are indeed frustrating.
this is why I love Raceroom in 2020. exciting
Niels at home : GPL and Going faster book was the perfect combo 20 years ago :)
What is funny with iR is that each build made it way more realistic ( from what i read in the forum) so was it feel bad before new build ? lol
I.ve been tired of the competition stuff and switch off to other title ... what is good today is that we have plenty differents choices.
Those who have race GPL for years since 1998 understand what i say. Nothing between 1998 and 2005 ( except F1 99-01 and Papyrus Nascar).
Oh the feels! I had both of those things 20 years ago also! (I think it might be more than 20 years - the brain-cells from back then aren't the most cooperative these days!). Used to have GPL LAN Parties. Good times.
I can't agree more. What you're saying is 100% agreeable. I wish rF2 had an equally good online competition as iRacning and the I would be happy.
Well I think this is what makes the AMS titles standout, the fine line of driving on the edge. And a fantastic engine model too among other things that standout!
assetto corsa too, but AMS has no street cars
I'm very excited Niels, I follow you since the time of the first Game Stock Car of Reiza and you just expressed in this little video what I've been saying for more than 12 years (I bought iRacing in 2008, if I remember correctly, shortly after coming out). It's that iRacing has a very particular physics of the cars that requires a specific learning, I've never felt it natural and it is quite far from what is the real limit of grip of the car tyres, it's as if you had to learn to drive the cars in the game itself, not in something that tries to resemble as much as possible to reality.
Thanks for expressing your opinion in this regard. 👏
Hey there Niels, i love your content. Just wanted to know if you could hint me in the direction of the books you got there on your Desk? Especially the one called Faster!
I took a break in January from iracing because of the Audi GT3 suddenly snapping away. I was always on edge not knowing when it would do it entering a corner and when it would happen I’d either back it off the track or correct and it’d catch like you are saying and then go head on off the track. Just got ACC and haven’t spent much time on it, but already that Audi is way better and more fun than the iracing version.
With a lot of big names starting to talk about iRacing's snappyness I really hope we start to see some changes.
those money maker fukers will not change. iRacing is VALVE of simracing basicly, and their game is this CSGO that just keeps brining money. Dont change it, cause there is risk You will broke it ;)
@@ADAKAR83 iracing is constantly working in make a better sim , 2 years ago was a very little company , now is way bigger and they are work a lot more , big improvment is incoming
@@projectgz they have shit ton of money and basicly iR now is the same as 5 years ago. So... Yeah they DIDNT change the most importanr things
You know the guy is serious business when Grand Prix Legends stands on the shelf 😄. Anyway it's spot on. I have been driving iRacing since beta and 5 years in a row, and I got tired of not being able to control the slides. After I stopped, and have been renewing a couple of times to check if it's getting better, but with no luck. Everything else around iRacing works very well.
I agree with you 100 percent. I have always driven a lot of AC and I am a big ACC fan now. The competition system in iRacing is very good, but I never could get used to the handling of the cars in iRacing right. In my opinion it is not 100% possible to find the absolute limit in iRacing as it is in reality. Simulations like rF2, AC and ACC are much better to finde the limit of the car and yourself.
Mirko Bortolotti 2017 Spa 24 at the race start : D
Quite insane how he managed to save it
Another LIKE this year, because the analysis is still relevant and still spot on 👍🏽
You exactly pointed out what was on my mind for some time. I tried Iracing and it is really a thrill to ride with those safety and iratings, but so unforgiving. Stepped away from that now. I enjoy upgrading and fine tuning my sim gear and then hotlapping in sims like acc, r3e and now ams2. I barely race against humans. But who is to judge what I like the most in simracing? This is what simracing is for me at the moment, and I really enjoy it this way. Veel succes met je bedrijf Niels
Great video Niels! Very brave of you to speak from the heart when it is not going to be well received by some in the relatively small sim racing industry. I totally agree, there are some other great sims available and people should try them and enjoy this great hobby and not feel iRacing is the only worthwhile sim. Despite the fact that I am no longer an iRacing subscriber, and agree that the sensation of grip is too unforgiving, iRacing does do a lot of things very well, as you stated. Hopefully they will turn some of the current criticism they are getting into a positive and learn from it and improve their product.
I got overtook by Tiff Nideel in the last corner of Thruxton around the outside in a massive powerslide. If that happened on iRacing, he was dead.
You must have been going slow
Fantastic video Niels. Suffice to say, the marketing for iRacing is way better than the actual product; and by product i mean that "Tire Model" Dave Kaemmer has now allegedly been working on for the better part of 30 years, 30 YEARS !!
The worst thing is not having a feeling of lateral grip on the steering wheel, the wheels do not stick to the ground, they have to fix the wheels and the way to feel the weight on the steering wheel, the rest is perfect
The difficulty, almost impossibility, of controlling a slide in iRacing is SUPER frustrating!! And it's why you get so many people wrecking other's races! I battled with the FR2 for quite a while and then jumped back into ACC and was like, WOW, I can control this car SO easily! I'm miffed that they don't improve this aspect as it appears to be such a common complaint! Anyway, fun video - thanks!
Good and entertaining video! I like iRacing though, actually, I like all the sims! Noone is perfect, they all have pros and cons.😁
Ps: I love your pedals!!😍😘
"I feel like eh... we need to..." show us that BMW rim over your right shoulder goddamn it 😁
i think it's the one from f1simgames.com
You can take a look how he drives the BMW-rim here: th-cam.com/video/WNsn1P4vSmk/w-d-xo.html
Just bought the Mustang on iRacing and the base line setup is very snappy, then you work the setup to correct it so the car never slide again. And thats it
Awesome content! Finally, i´ve heard from someone that really knows about it , what i feel for years.
Driving iracing for me is like a 'drive a spaceship' on the track...
That TM Formula T2 was the first wheel I tried on PC with the very first Need for Speed. Also have the Going Faster book.
Very well explained.
It's getting better. The new tyre model is a first step. Mazda MX5 with the new tyre model is quite fun and Skippies too.
Niels i can appreciate your honest sharing of your opinion , so i would love to know what simulator satisfies your on the edge control feeling the most if you picked only one ?
Partly this is why I bought LFS this morning :) iRacing really need to address this ongoing sudden oversteer grip loss issue and dynamic track not really working well enough.
Live for Speed ?
Wow, is that still alive?
@@daviddanser8011 Yes.
best "wheel feal" in a sim imo
Are you mad? £36 for a sim that's been in development hell since 2008! £30 would have got you AC Ultimate Edition, or Automobilista Ultimate Edition for the cost of an S2 license.
Spot on! If you love it keep at it, period
Great words, great opinion, so much truth. Keep it up!
Almost 1200 hours on AC not to mention others, and semi new to iracing. Its good to hear this, and it lines up completely with my time in iracing. Seems like iracing tries to have a stanglehold on what people can and cant say about their sim. Silly. Also you mentioned car control and driving near the limit... there's something very special about the yellowbird at nords in AC.
I am one of those new people trying iracing and I can definitely say this is true. I can't believe how quickly I can lose complete control of the car.
Great video! I often say this but iRacing has one big unique selling point. The online competition. You can get great racing with close fights and it all is for points and rating. After the race you can see all the small detailed statistics about the race of both yourself and every other driver who was in the race. For a person who loves numbers and racing this is amazing! If any of the other sims launced something similar it would take customers from iRacing. I bet even GT Sport being far from a full fledged PC sim has taken a few of them.
Good video, I agree that life is not just in one game (Whichever it is).
Right now many games have rating systems with great driving experience, ACC, RaceRoom as two examples I play right now.
Good points brought up here. For me, the one that feels the most like I am actually controlling a car is Raceroom Racing Experience. I know they are lacking some details (but getting there in that dept) but already the overall feel just feels RIGHT to me.
Love the T2 on the shelf... brings back many good memories!
Instant thumbs up for having a copy of GPL on the shelf, top man!
Something is also very important:
If FOV and cam isn’t greatly setted up, you’ll not be able to understand car movement, resulting in reacting everytime out of the car limit. Also, if you don’t have any movement on your setup, you’ll hardly be able to know where the limit is, and will react too late. That’s why it’s harder than IRL. I think that the problem stands somehow in this. iRacing uses data and there’s a lot of people saying they work close to cars factoring saying that iRacing is making the physic perfectly. So I don’t know... I’ll try this by myself, but what’s sure is that you have to be sure to setup everything extremely fine before getting a good feedback. And most of the simracers uses a badly settup up fov and cam
An interesting view of sim racing in general. I am a long time sim racer , so-so at best. iRacing is / was My main sim , but I have ran many sims. iRacing is far above others in most aspects , one of the main thing I wish they would address is the FFB. If i could get Automobilista FFB in iRacing I would be a very happy camper.I liked this video as I believe that experience in any car , on any track in any sim is beneficial for a sim racer. I always enjoy hearing others point of view on different titles ect. Stay safe & looking forward to Your next upload.
You will never ever have that FFB in Iracing, neither will you have good physics or good graphics, it's a reality I realised years ago, GT3 is the main series racer in iracing, just look at ACC compared to iracing, different level entirely with everything, please wake up and leave iracing!
Nice range of products man, one day when i win the lotto i will definately order me a combo kit from you.
Pals, how about old iracing? Whats the thoughts about its tyre model? Was that better in you opinion? That ir can be found on the torrents bay the way and be played not online of course, but still) Got to find out it was not that slippy much.
I feel your pain, its the low speed spins that anger me when the car just does a 360 on the spot and not for forgetting the tank slapper's you get when you think you've saved it and bam you're dead, only thing that keeps me there is the online racing.
Got to say it again. Great video. I think guys like Niels can quite reasonably justify when realism is so much overcooked like in iR, and thats half of a thing. Now to secure direction, to center it to "the truth", we also must talk openly about things that are too easy, or too fortunate in various simulations, cars. Because only having difficulty as an issue won't do much good without building some kind of doubt border for stuff that is (likely) too easy too.
The lighter oval cars on iRacing are actually fun to drive on road courses! They don't have such a 'knife edge' type of peak grip that you get on almost all the road cars.
The super late model and modified are my favorites, but the legends are also super fun! You can actually get those cars to rotate under power, or through trail braking and have fun. With almost every other car on the service I use trailbraking because they understeer so bad... a lot of times the understeer is setup related, but it's almost impossible to be consistently fast with a car that likes to oversteer in iRacing. I have some setups for the modifieds and super late model on some videos on my channel if you wanna try them out.
I especially agree with the floaty feeling after catching a slide in iracing. A decent amount of the time I can catch the initial slide, without over correcting, and have the car going straight but then for what feels like a whole second afterwards there are like tank slapper aftershocks that make no sense. The car is already going straight and should have settled down by then, but some little tiny input will then send the car right into a wall.
All my time in iRacing has helped me to develop very quick hands that have come in handy on track in real life, though! Also the competition you can get on the service just can't be beat!
iR handlin SUCKS!
Hey! I'm an avid sim-racer and am currently pursuing a PhD in physics at Chalmers University in Sweden... I study light-matter interactions, but I've got a ton of knowledge about physics in general, especially how to simulate complex systems. I also race a good bit in real life!
How did you get into the world of physics programming, and how can I get into it?
You'd be better off messaging physics programmers on LinkedIn. Might even get a mentor that way
iRacing for racing and AMS for driving. Now we just need both in one game. Great video!
Hey Niels! I am the guy who talked to you about your Fiesta on the stairs last SimRacingExpo in Germany. I really want you to try some of the less famous cars on iracing, with the correct ffb settings and the correct setups to change your mind a bit about this topic. Of course, as you said, there are many things quite off, but it's not that bad if you know which series worth your time. Hit me whenever you want for any questions. Cheers.
Oh, did you express your condolences? That honestly touched me a bit, no matter how stupid that sounds since we were talking about a 18 year old rusty Ford Fiesta. :-)
@@NielsHeusinkveld Exactly, buddy! I thought it would be touching and funny at the same time. Just the fact you remember it it's a win, I guess. :D Back to topic, I race lotus49 on iracing and I'm sideways 90% of the time with that monster. Sure it's not easy to dial everything up, but it's possible, and when you do it's pure joy. Check out our last race: th-cam.com/video/akw9_8GbqbE/w-d-xo.html
I’ve never tried I-racing, I don’t have a permanent rig, so race more casually. There pay to play model has always put me off to be honest. I did want to say though my friends setup has a set of your racing pedals that we picked up from daemon tweeks, they are really worth the money. Just wanted to take the time to say thank you. Great kit 👍🏻
I’ve got to hit like on this video because of the flawless placement of original Grand Prix Legends box on shelf.
Ironically, GPL was also a progenitor of the "if it's impossible to drive, it must be realistic" car handling ethos, and remains beloved for that very reason. Also very ironic.
Yep, the most important sim in my life for sure! And completely undriveable beyond a certain point with logical opposite lock. But there were no alternatives and everything else more than made up for it. :-)
Can't agree more - many times I've decided to go back to iRacing for the competition side of things, and just as many times I've cancelled my sub and gone back to Automobilista because it's just way more fun to drive.
Your pedals are superb!
GT Sport is great for online racing, hard core sim racers carry on about the driving views people use but each to their own we all enjoy our Esports for different reasons