We Made Your Average Disc Golf Basket Better
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- Believe it or not, there’s been an ongoing debate about Disc Golf Baskets for years.. and it’s actually somewhat controversial.
So we made a smaller basket to settle the debate once and for all 😉
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I think smaller baskets would really slow down the pace of play. it wouldn't be nearly as fun watching people lay up every C2 putt and spending forever chaining out
The guys I play with already do that. I don't think your avg course should change anytime soon as the baskets are already in good shape. No need to waste the money. What I would like to see is a professional basket used on the DGPT to make putting interesting to watch. Guys are making 100% of putts for entire events. A two putt now and then wouldn't hurt.
Plus shouldn't the guy who put his shot to 5 feet get a better score then the guy who put it to 35?
@@discgolfdetails9889 So only the elite disc golf players get to play on the new baskets and the rest of us plebs get the old ones? That divides the player base and makes things exclusive for certain people while the rest of us get left out. Sounds like ball golf to me.
@@coachjordan1717 Initially yes. Do you think it makes sense to ask you local parks department to pony up 7-8 Grand to buy new baskets when they may have done so in the last 5 years? Eventually yes I could see it becoming the norm over many years, but for sure not right away. Heck I play a course that has cones and it's from the 70's. Get out and throw.
@David Fowler I'm not saying they don't deserve a birdie. But currently the odds of the top pro making the 35 footer is very high. If it was more like 50/50 or 60/40 then the guy who parks it makes up that stroke more often. Versus now a 35 footer is probably closer to 75/25, maybe even 80/20. I mean we have had multiple players go 4 rounds and not miss a single putt from inside of 33 feet. Top putters are 95% in C1 and have 100% perfect tournaments.
We can stand to see a few more misses per round to make putting exciting, because it is already boring now. I'm talking about 33 feet on in. Guys simply make the putts too often to make it uninteresting to watch.
If name your top pro has a 25 footer do you expect them to make it or miss? Obviously you expect them to make it because they do like 90 plus percent of the time.
@@discgolfdetails9889 So all these baskets that the pdga have approved over the years would be worthless. The manufacturers that invested lots of money would not be happy, lawsuits would follow. The PDGA isn't going to risk it just to make it more challenging for Paul Mcbeth and less exciting for the fans. I want them to make all their C1 which is the most boring aspect of the game so we can move on to the next hole.
“2 discs wide” is logical and compelling, but I think the “putting is to easy” comment comes from watching lead card every weekend. The rest of the field is not making it look so easy. Long putts and aces are arguably the most exciting things in the sport, why rarify the excitement?
Good point. I'm really split on this issue. ( at the pro-level, of course. Not for us normal guys, haha)
There's actually a good reason why a smaller basket might do the opposite of rarifying the excitement. A smaller basket would make aces, throw-ins, and long putts rarer, but it would make them proportionally more thrilling when they happen. The range in which a putt is considered "impressive" if it's cashed gets closer to the basket - maybe changing from 50 feet to circle's edge for the professionals. Everyone has more circle's edge putts than 50-foot putts during an average round, meaning more chances for excitement. In that sense, excitement is actually made more frequent.
The smaller baskets would make excellent practice putt baskets. Then the real baskets on the course would look easy.
It’d be interesting to see the pro tour bring 18 of these to each event for the pros to use. Could be a good challenge. Maybe, it’d help bring distance of holes down since they can’t rely on 60 ft putts
Or install these on easier par three courses to make the course more challenging for tournament play?
In case you’re interested, Dynamic Discs actually put a set of Marksman’s up for a tournament and did a vlog on it. th-cam.com/video/OGZXZctHjjA/w-d-xo.html
If the pro tour ever changed the baskets, I don’t think they should go all the way to single chain, but shrinking it is definitely a good idea.
@@RGMDG For me this season many holes have pushed players out to 60 feet. These 500 foot downhill par 3's. I feel like if we have to make holes 500 feet to challenge players why can't we just make putting harder instead?
@@discgolfdetails9889 Agreed.
Or maybe as they play multiple rounds in a tournament, the baskets get switched to thin ones for 1 or 2 rounds. It becomes the challenging round, is interesting to watch, they know it's coming, and averages out some of the total scores.
Neal’s “Oh my Gord!” Might just be my new text tone. 🤣🤣🤣
*Gourd 🤘
The basket cage feels almost too tall in comparison another small note although not sure but the new basket didnt seem to have the slight outward flare. 2 small factors that could make a huge difference on perception and feel. Love the work!
The MVP he has has really short, flared out cages
I’ve never had an issue with the baskets personally. I feel like it creates a lot more hype moments on tour.
Great video!
I think the most important thing in a basket is consistency. If you had some perfect throwing mechanism and you throw 100 of the exact same shot at a basket, they should go in 100% of the time. If that basket is made smaller/harder to hit, that could be a good thing for the sport. The design would need to be updated to accommodate that consistency though.
I think the design problem you'd run into with a smaller basket is finding the design that prevents it from being too touchy from a velocity standpoint. Decreasing the diameter of the chain ring means less stopping time for a disc before it bounces off the center pole. If you compensate with too heavy a chain, it would reject slower putts. If the chains are too light, discs wont slow down in time and bounce off the center poll.
Now I think about it, I wonder if anyone has tried making a basket with chains in tiered thickness? Lighter chains on the outside, heavier in the middle, heaviest in the center? Might be interesting to try.
Super interesting thoughts - especially the chain thickness tiers 🤯 Thanks Malachi!
Tiered chains…extremely interesting
I wonder if you could add an absorption pad to the pole to help deaden some of the velocities. That way you know if you hit the pole it will drop straight down.
I don’t think it is a problem for it to reject fast putts (coming from someone who putted fast.) It is only a thing because we added so many chains to make it possible. When Ricky and Paul were battling, McBeth himself said he putted a bit softer for the older basket designs and that was when they had the best putts ever (from a technical standpoint.) I think getting people to have a more pure, accurate and well paced putt is always a good thing. Like in golf, you have to putt the right pace or it won’t go in. Also, sometimes on modern baskets putts will spit out just based on spin and angle and random chance. I think that could get worse with this in any case. I think the prototype had those weird spit outs though because of the way they adjusted the band. It is different than normal so
@@DGMongol Don’t think that’d do much.
I take a little bit of issue with the argument for smaller baskets as a whole, but you're forgetting that UltraStars remain PDGA-legal. In addition, Condors are also that much oversized, so the standard baskets, in my opinion, are still the perfect size, taking into consideration the largest discs that remain PDGA legal. Although those discs are still not used often, for many, regular "catch discs" are their entrance into disc golf, so not only would shrinking baskets effectively eliminate discs from being used in the sport, it would also make it harder for people to get into disc golf WITHOUT buying disc golf-specific discs, something which is both environmentally unfriendly AND an obstacle to people getting into the sport. I know it's trendy to talk about shrinking the basket, but the ripple effects would be wide-ranging. Yes, it would probably make the sport harder to shrink the basket, but why does that matter? Do we see amateurs tearing up the tour because it's easy to putt on the baskets currently in the ground? Do we see pros win by double-digits when their putt has looked shaky? The answer to both of these questions is of course, no. There's already an established basket size that is installed on tens of thousands (probably more, I haven't checked the actual numbers) of courses, so why would make those baskets effectively obsolete by changing specs for the sport??
Another thing, disc golf is not regular golf. Just because the golf hole is designed to be the diameter of two balls, that does not mean that disc golf needs to follow. It's time to let disc golf be its own sport, and to stop the comparison between hockey with soccer.
There, I've said my peace. =D
Like this comment if Neal needs to be in more videos 😂
You guys are the next Jonathan and Johannes.
Neal needs to be around more!!
Just a thought but if you're adjusting the diameter by a certain % then wouldn't you address the distance between the chain assembly and the basket as well? Essential making a smaller scale version??
Your link is broken if you click it directly, make sure you take of the last parentheses!
My only issue with this was that I wish that the chain count was matched or at least some of the gaps in the smaller one was filled. I would imagine the higher the chain count between the outside to the pole would significantly reduce spit outs resulting in an even more skill based putting experience
Thanks for the interesting content! There are several issues with the overall argument presented here though:
1. "Discs continue to get smaller and smaller." Not really, not for a long time anyway. There hasn't been a new smallest PDGA-approved disc in a very long time.
2. Even more importantly, larger diameter discs like the Makani are still PDGA legal, and need to be able to fairly fit, laying flat inside a basket. It's also a massive plus for accessibility that big frisbees still currently fit for new and casual players.
3. The basket you have is not representative of most pro baskets. PDGA guidelines say that even the most restrictive Championship standard baskets can have an *inside* diameter of anywhere from 24.4 to 27.6 inches. That's a big variance (13%!). You didn't measure the inside diameter of the MVP basket here, but it looks huge compared to, e.g., an Innova Discatcher Pro.
4. Introducing a new smaller basket would be an ecological nightmare. There would be social pressure on every course in the world to replace all of their baskets, even if they didn't host pro events. Courses would be regarded as "lesser" if they had the old standard of baskets. So well over a hundred thousand baskets are now obsolete overnight.
5. The sport is simply way too mature to make this change at this point. Yes, the smaller basket would make scores more closely resemble pro ball golf, but why is that a good thing exactly? There would now be a bright demarcation line between eras of the sport with no direct comparisons possible. Tournaments would slow down. There would be a ton more spit-outs, which aren't fun to watch (your custom basket here is simply WAY too small to be practical, even if we agree baskets should be smaller than the giant MVP basket here). Ratings would be all kinds of messed up because now putting is a way bigger part of playing well than it already is, and driving is less; and ratings wouldn't truly compare anything across eras, nevermind for the same players at the same time competing on different courses with such different baskets.
6. Ask Aaron Gossage if putting is "too easy" today (4 missed C1 putts in the final round of worlds he lost in a tiebreaker, including 3 from inside 20 feet). We can't make the equipment standards of the game you and I play only well suited for players as good as Paul McBeth.
Perfect! Just what I need! A basket that will make my already pathetic putting even worse! 😂
All for making basket/cage smaller per the intent “two disc wide” one should consider the larger PDGA approved discs, like the Condor.
That's a good argument as well. I think you could narrow and shorten the chain area but keep the inside a bit wider and deeper to accommodate larger discs too. I think both should be able to work on any new basket.
Yeah, because there's so many people are bagging a condor these days....
I feel like the new basket's cage should be slightly angled to help catch those falls a little better. I'd also like to see it with more chains and different chain designs to find the most optimal. I personally think that putting needs to be harder for pros, whether that's making smaller baskets or widening C1.
I don’t think they need to widen C1 they just need to make jump putting unavailable from C2. That way C1 and C2 stats are still there and unchanged because percentages made from either is cool to see.
@@itsbrandonbush Your option is definitely easier to implement!
I think there's simplier options to make putting harder (like changing jump/step putting rules, etc.) that doesn't require us to change the ten's of thousands of baskets already installed all over the world.
Think of it like the 3-point line in basketball, it was getting too easy for the best atthletes, so they extended the line for higher-level competition, without needing to drastically change the fundamental scoring hardware-the hoop.
Though I love the idea of having an X-Tier event with pro's playing on a smaller diameter basket. For Science!
Moving c1 out won't change anything. Most people I play with and a very amature level easily have the power to make a standstill put at 15m. And unlike basketball there is no incentive to try for a longer put since it is still only worth 1 point. Smaller baskets on the pro tour is the way to go. It will filter down from there in time as baskets need replaced
For science!!
To your point david, the 3 point line has moved several times, and our basket is still on version 1.0
@@nealsphoto1 but the basketball hoop is essentially the same. Moving the circle back is easier than changing hardware.
@@ddownham I wouldn't change any parks baskets that don't need replacing. Amateurs can play on a bigger target. High end courses that host bigger PDGA events might want to though. Pay to play, etc...
Personally i would like to keep the baskets how they are now. It's electrifying seeing throw ins, aces, big putts. If we make it smaller than you would take away most of those moments. I think that outweighs the benefit of making it harder to putt
Not sure about most. I watched Ricky Wysocki do a throw in challenge on a Marksman (move back every 10 feet then do it again for 20 minutes or something) and he was making them out to 200 feet or something. Check it out on his channel. A Marksman is even much smaller then Pandas design.
great video, but I feel you came to the wrong conclusion. Just watching those spit/chain outs was frustrating. I've been playing for about 13 years now and most players (new and old) already struggle and get most frustrated with putting. I don't think we need to make it any harder, and dislike the idea of bringing more luck into the sport (where two identical putts could receive different outcomes). Nowhere does it say we need to stick to ball golf tradition and make the hole two projectiles wide. The target is the perfect size right now IMO.
Super interesting! I think this would be a good change overall, because over time with more parity in the field there will have to be either a bigger circle/ managed greens or a change in the basket to add some putting difficulty! Would love to try out that basket!
Another beautifully produced video. The evolution of the us great and I'm glad I found this channel and have been here for the ride.
Yes putting is too easy. I would like to see a wider angle for the basket entry. But I like this idea and maybe chains to be organized in a way to grab for aces or maybe it isn't as bad if the cage let's some discs in?
An ace should be a rare occurrence, not multiple times a tournament. An ace is no longer special if you are stepping up to a shot and thinking their is a reasonable chance of making it
I love the idea of making a smaller basket! And the width of two discs makes sense. The difficulty with shrinking the basket, however, is that it exacerbates some of the flaws that already exist. For example, pole spit-outs (hate em). Disc golf is the only sport i can think of where a shot hits the middle of the target and could possibly get punished for being “too center.” Until that problem and other consistency issues can be resolved, I feel like having a larger target is at least a way to compensate.
On a side note, another difference with disc golf is that disc rotation causes the “strong side” of the basket to catch better than the “weak side.” It feels like that can’t really be changed, and it is different from ball golf where a hole is hole, and the ball goes in on either side equally well.
Great video. Love the concept w/ this sized basket.
I remember even years ago Paul making the comment about the baskets. This now pushes the conversation even more to putting and less so on sheer distance. It also would change the design focus of courses more to the greens rather than to length of the hole. Thanks for sharing!
Don't forget about the super class approved discs like the Condor or Zephyr 😉
This was my thought too, there's wider diameter mids n fairways too, like Stalkers and Cobras.
Something underrated about baskets like a Mach X and yours here is the chain sag at the bottom, it's more suited for this newer style of putt a lot of players have going hard, straight, and flat at the center of the chains. Baskets where the chain connect at the bottom without looping up like the Discatcher are made for old school hyzer drop in putts like Climo, GG, or Barsby. When you putt straight at a Discatcher, the tension at the bottom of the chains fights the disc and wants to spit it out, kind of like a rubber band. Having chains sag at the bottom like a Mach X or your basket here relieves the tension that causes discs to spit out when you hit dead center and allows the chains to catch more like a net. If you don't believe me just try it, I'm an engineer but it's hard to explain in a TH-cam comment.
Looks like you have to hit lower on the chains and also take up some of the slack on the chains towards the bottoms. The angle at which the chains come down can be tighter to open up more if the bottom tray.
I think a smaller chain target over a larger/regular basket size would be the best combo. I putt on the junior size black hole (approx 25% smaller than current baskets), but I made a larger basket. Tougher to hit chains, but it catches well when you do.
That is excellent. Plus it would still fit larger discs like a Condor. I think the tray has to still be a bit bigger but the chain area can shrink.
I’d wouldn’t mind seeing it put into play at some courses, and definitely being featured on the pro tour. But, just for the every day player, I think the average person just starting out, missing that many puts may detour them from playing. Having the bigger basket allows a great learning and development…but if the pros want it, let them have it. I’d drive to a course that has them, just to see a “true” score. Hehe
THIS is the long-awaited separator between am and pro! No need to change course length/par. LOVE IT!
Changing the radius of the basket by the difference in diameter of the discs makes the center of the smaller disc have to be closer to the pole in order to theoretically drop into the smaller cage, so it should be harder than using a frisbee on an original/current size basket. If the radius of the basket were changed by the difference in radii of the discs, then centers of the discs and therefore required accuracy for successful putts should be similar in both cases.
It would still be harder though, as the smaller diameters of the disc and chain ring would meet at slightly more of a glancing angle than the frisbee on the original basket at the same center distance from the pole.
I haven’t made the trek to Another Round yet. Tomorrow could be the day!
When we started playing in my country, I had to DIY myself a basket. I eyeballed it to the size I thought looked right. it ended up being like 20% smaller in every dimension. we played with this basket for a while and I really loved it. it just felt right. There is no getting lucky. No left/right chains. There is only in or out. So in a way it feels like it catches great. Apart from tap ins, no putt feels given and at the same time throw ins and aces remain a possibility.
Great video, and concept! I think the only thing that should be adjusted is removing a link or two of the out chains so they aren't so saggy.
Id love to see a them treat this as a Pro basket vs amateur basket, for tournament play.
The chains could be longer, actually protruding through the cage and place a weight at the gathering point. The weights could actually be easily changed to accommodate professional tournaments and easily switched back afterwards .
The key to a good scientific experiment is to control the variables. If you'd tried putting on the original basket (unmodified) versus the modified basket, that would be well controlled. Your experiment is different though. The MVP Black Hole is a well designed basket with 24 chains in two layers, versus the other basket with a chain configuration I've never even seen before. There were too many spit-throughs on the old basket to make me think that would happen regardless of the basket width and chain spread. Criticism aside, this is a good video and I love seeing you take on the topic.
Great feedback - thanks Colin!
I agree they certainly didn't build one from scratch and prototype a dozen. That would be ideal to get the best configuration.
Love this idea! This size almost feels perfect. I love the comparison of how the baskets we used now were sized based upon frisbees and not disc. Common sense says make the change!
So stoked to be able to putt on this basket every day Jesse! Thanks for dropping it off in denver man!!!
Nice job you theory makes sense, I like the newer basket you made, if nothing else it would make for a better practice basket.
With a better chain layout the smaller one may work a little better than it does now. Spit outs are such a nasty part of the game. It just feels bad when some of those would miss when it was truly dead center and just fell off the chains wrong. With all that being said, changing all the disc golf baskets already put in the ground would be incredibly hard and not very sustainable ;)
Thanks for the feedback -boon- 👍
I really like the prototype. It would be interesting to test this out where instead of counting makes vs misses, just count how many times you hit in the general area of the center and how many times it splashed out. Get like 50 makeable putts and see what percentage of those spit out (due to wahtever, spin, hitting the pole, weird chain geometry.) I think you could adjust the chains for it to prevent weird splash outs (since the top assembly was just bent it it changes the geometry compared to a regular basket so it may be a bit more stiff for a disc to hit or something.) I think it is still a great prototype and proof of concept and should push it forward. I am pretty sure McBeth had a basket maker (elguapo) make one from scratch that is like this
I'm new to disc golf so the old one seems great to me still but conceptually the one you made makes a lot more sense.
Welcome to the sport and thanks for the thoughts FatGoose!!
This was a great video and I think there are some great points raised here. I wouldn’t say the rules should change to shorten all regulation baskets to this smaller size, instead there should be perhaps a parameter and it can be left up to the course designers to decide best when and where to utilize certain baskets.
These would help make shorter par 3 courses that lack wooded Layouts more challenging and add an element that really emphasizes short accuracy,which can make the game a little more interesting for players of different skill sets.
On many of the courses where I live the courses are already challenging enough, at least at their current par ratings per each hole where I don’t think these baskets are adding any practical value.
These smaller baskets would certainly increase a players scores quite drastically, I think if they eventually did become the standard we would have to see some adjustments to the score cards as well. Perhaps it would also follow suit with traditional golf where we see the average Par for a course as 72, instead of what I would guess for disc golf is currently in the high 50’s to low 60’s.
One thing that I think needs to be considered however is that this will drastically alter the pace of play for disc golf. I play both traditional golf and disc golf, and I enjoy how much less hassle it is to get a quick 9 or 18 recreationally when playing disc golf comparatively. I don’t think disc golf needs to replicate traditional golf in this manner.
You need more math, Jesse!
Those original pole holes were designed to have a 2 frisbee width AND a 2 frisbee HEIGHT (almost … I measured). Anyway the height of the basket still needs to be reduced by 1/3 because that’s how much smaller discs are compared to Frisbees. And I’ll bet this change helps more putts drop into the tray when they hit clean in the chains.
Great video, nice welding work, and thanks for Including Brody’s comment about playing basketball into hula hoop baskets. Lol!
One of my local par 3 pitch and out courses has the smaller baskets. I play that course all winter and when spring comes I feel like I can’t miss a put on the bigger baskets.
At least for a week or so.
As a "local" pro, the thing that matters to me is that good putts are rewarded - no spits, bounce outs, etc. By decreasing cage size you generally increase the odds of these things happening, so I think further innovation would be needed to make for more consistent results if you shrink the cage / chains. The more two players have the "same" putt, but with different results the less legit the sport looks, the more frustrated players are and I think it is worse for the sport. The size of the basket is secondary to result consistency. If you want to think about this in ball golf terms - how often does the ball bounce out of the cup?
Not if your pace is correct, which is a huge factor in ball golf, one disc golf is missing
Would attaching loose chains to the outside basket bowl encourage the disc to snag or spit out?
I personally would like to see the PDGA use a smaller diameter chain setup with a basket size larger than this. That would mean shots/putts would have to be more precise but less luck involved in the actual catching of the disc
I practice on a customized basket at home with a smaller basket AND chains. I simply tied up the chains (I have a single outer set of chains for reference). I think with your modified basket you need to slightly narrow the chains so it does not reject a "good" throw.
You can also see side by side that the top rim of the basket is pointed outwards making it even easier to get in. I think with the correct width at the bottom you can put the top rim out at an angle to make it a completely correct basket
You have to remember disc are also more dense than a Frisbee so you would need to add more chain to catch them better.
Did you consider a shorter distance between the top of the cage and the bottom of the chain rack?
next one(s) you make should play around with depth of basket as well as distance from chain support. there were times I feel some may have fallen in if pan was a little shallower because it wouldn't strike side of rim so quickly, just thinking, love to see this experimentation
Altering the putting circle : circle one 15 meters ( no falling putts) ; circle two 30 meters… the stats/records would be modified but then the NFL backed the goal posts 10 yards after 80 years of records.
A way more feasible challenge if they want to do it. It's the difference between thousands of dollars for every course or free. I know which one I'd go for if it had to happen.
Best bang for your buck welder, on that Forney easyweld!
I didn't even know the origins of the diameter of the basket! Super interesting! Obviously we've been debating forever about whether basket measurements and chain counts should be standardized (which yes, they should), but this takes it to a whole new level! My initial thought is, considering the recent debate about extending C1 at the pro-level, that making this kind of basket the pro-size basket would eliminate the circle debate. Other sports (football and basketball most notably) have changed rules and court dimensions based on the advancement of player skill and talent level. Is pro-disc golf due for that?
I like the video but I am curious how come no nozzle on the mig weld gun?
The focus should be more on if you hit the pole, rather than getting it in the basket. Tighter chains with a larger basket (when I say larger, I mean the same as it is now) kind of makes the most sense to me. It might look different at first but people would get over it.
What about the distance between the band and the rim of the basket - was vertical distance x2 frisbees too? Wouldn't the basket need to be raised closer to the band?
Sorry I'm so late to this conversation. I'm a former golfer that took up disc golf a bit over a year ago. One thing that is wildly different between the 2 sports is putting, on a variety of levels. 1. Putting, for the most part, is far more exciting to watch in ball golf than disc golf. 2. More PGA players miss 2 footers than PDGA players miss 15 footers. 3. There's more, but I forgot them.
Smaller baskets will reward those players that can hit gaps and have great control. It will also improve the pros' putting. Additionally, I'd bet that the baskets themselves (and possibly discs) will improve so that chaining out would be less of an issue.
Aside from this debate... Yall should totally make a video with this dude making the cheapest or easiest basket to make out of used/found materials. I know tons of kids or even adults have tried(to varying levels of success) to create makeshift baskets. Great job trash panda!
Cool experiment! Super random but Neal reminds me of the neighbor from Office Space, Lawrence. Lmao
Ima take that as a compliment 👊
@@nealsphoto1 you absolutely should - Lawrence was cool as hell! Great work guys. Wish I was local so I could try some putts on that basket.
I like the attempt to remake the standard for a new basket, although there are 2 differences i believe would improve on your design. 1) how high up the basket sits on the pole relative to the top where the chains hang should be shortened( this would also shorten the length of the chains hanging). the depth of attackable chains should be relative to the diameter of the basket. and 2) in golf, the flagpole sits in the middle of the bucket(which still allows the ball to enter the bucket from all sides) and can be removed when putting vs. discgolf where the center pole of the basket cant be removed, so there should be a half inch added to the (newly made)baskets diameter(equating to the size of a disc plus one half inch from pole to inside basket edge) to account for bouncing off the center pole. I hope these ideas help.
Interesting to note the differences in angle of the basket too… the black hole pro you have flares in from the rim to the bottom whereas the more expensive baskets are not flared… so even though the bottom of the basket might be 2 frisbees, the actual opening of the basket could be larger!
I think that there is a happy medium. Ive putted with ultimate frisbees on regular baskets and the amount of center hit spit outs that happen dont seem fair.
I wouldnt mind seeing baskets smaller, but I would just rather see dead center hits rewarded more and off center (especially weak side) hits be punished. There are more ways than one to achieve that and a medium between yours and standard might be a good start.
Love to see how many of those minis he has in the background still!
Disc golf needs smaller targets. Period. If not for every course out there, it needs to be on the pro tour.
Negatives- less hole in ones/throw ins (holy shot), brings some level of luck into play
Positives- makes putting bigger challenge for pros (think of ball golf, it’s not impossible), pros can play a different game than ams and I wouldn’t mind seeing pros struggle putting as much as I do
100% agree. The local 9 hole for beginners can still keep their bigger baskets, the pros need a challenge. Watching them go 12 and 13 down on a round should be exceptionally rare, not the norm
Making the chain width smaller demands more skill. Reducing basket size requires more "luck" as many have said in the comments. At the end of the day we want to grow the sport and I think many new or recreational throwers will feel disencouraged in their performance due to the spit out factor. Resulting in some to walk away from the sport possibly. Changes could be made. But not to this extent in my opinion. Great content as always Jesse!
Mach 3 baskets are still pretty common on courses that have been around a while, and those don't really discourage new/rec players at all. I don't think these types of players actually care all that much about their scores or an unlucky spit out here and there. Also, I could easily see something like this being a "Pro Tour" basket, where most existing courses would keep their current baskets. Similar to how a bowling alley might use lightweight pins and friendly oil patterns when not being used for league or tournament play.
@@Zielmann633 I've been playing since the 80's. Putting has gotten much easier with these Mach X baskets and all these chains. I kind of like Prodigy baskets with the webbing inside. I wonder if you could just shrink that down 15% or whatever and get a desired result for the professionals of course. Your local park baskets for ams is fine and won't change. They are not going to shell out 5 grand just to put in new baskets.
Wonder if there was some way to may the chain part of the basket a little more “grippy”. Not overly grabby so you just have to hit the chain to make it, but enough to balance the fact that more chain outs will happen bc of the smaller basket
Yea if we wanted to do this theyd have to completely redesign because you can hit perfect and the disc will be chained out. I think it could work but it would need to be similar to the marksman
What would be your thoughts on Course Edition ChampCaps by PuttConfidently on baskets? Making those super easy (kinda boring) birdie holes a little more challenging. Much more efficient and way less costly than changing out baskets. Forcing putting accuracy with width and height, but all 4 holes at a fair 13” diameter. I’m genuinely curious what you’d think about that idea. I figure if we can elevate baskets, have swinging baskets, put “mozzarella sticks” on baskets or surround them on 3 sides with natural barriers, why not put the challenge directly on the basket?
Mozzarella sticks *around, not on
I really like what you did- would like to see the smaller basket with a bit thicker chains- absolutely love the idea just like would be so hard to alter all DG baskets around the world- but could be do-able for an entity like the DGPT
I think one problem is the bottom of the basket on the original is smaller than the top rim, the modified basket looked to be about the same between the rim and bottom. Also the original design has the rim being wider than the band with the chains. The modified appeared to have a band that’s either the same as or bigger than the rim. I think my problem with it is if it’s being shrunk, it should be to scale.
I really like this idea. Didn’t think I would at first but looking at the size difference it’s just crazy. Definitely would remove the “luck” factor or minimize it. Pro tour should look at something like this in my opinion. Great video by the way.
I think it would increase the luck factor because you would have more center pole hits that spit out because the disc just barely flips over the edge.
I feel like the biggest issue of trying to compare a basket to a golf cup is the basic concept of how putting works. In golf other than pin strikes, which do happen but are rare and not really intended, the cup has gravity on its side to because the ball will just drop right in. To me anyway it makes sense for a disc golf basket to be larger given that hitting the chains is intended to stop the disc but that naturally wont have the disc drop dead straight down. What would be super fun would just be to throw that new small basket but without the chains or pole at all, just the bottom basket. Massive RIP to ace chances but at least you wouldn't be able to chain out lmao.
Exactly! Discs generally are meant to fly flat towards the target, more like an arrow from a bow than a ball rolling on the ground and having gravity drop it in the hole. Remove the chains AND the center pole and you basically have an elevated "hole" and discs are pretty much not going in that "hole" very often. Solution: Tone Poles, like were tried way back in the day. If your disc dings the pole, the putt is good. No chains, no tray, no top band rejections!
I could see basket diameter changing depending on divisions. Kind of how NBA vs WNBA has different heights, or AM vs Pro sports have different lengths/sizes for their equipment. This would help create a better difference between the 1000 rated local pros and the touring pros!
And it would make so many courses unplayable for half of the players or be completely untenable financially for most courses. Baskets are already expensive when you're trying to do 18, and there is no standard yet.
Also, I don't hate seeing the best players around make C2 putts. Do you hate that?
@@seymourglass26 lots of pro level courses have short baskets and long baskets... and when you push the sport to be harder, players end up better!
And how would that make half of them unplayable? You'd literally just be changing scores, not its playability.
I would love to see this basket go through its paces with some pros and see what they think. I do see what some people say about the pacing of the game getting slower, but at the same time, pros are getting better and better. And courses need to keep up with the skill level to a degree. Some tests with them would be interesting to see.
I first played dg in 1979 at Oak Grove Park in Springfield, Missouri. We had to putt very low, barely clearing the basket otherwise our "frisbee" could easily bounce off the chains. I think the pros would need to do the same thing on yours. I'd like to see it.
The biggest difference between the two in my opinion is you have to pace your putt correctly or it won’t fall, which is much more like ball golf. So many disc golfers slam home putts from far out, when in real golf you can’t hit the hole too hard or it will lip out or skip over. Other than left-right and correct height, pace and strength hasn’t really mattered. With the smaller basket, pace is crucial. I love it! It really adds touch to around the green which disc golf is lacking.
this video is well done ! but I think this types of smaller baskets bring more " luck " for the disc to stay in or spit out ... may be reducing the chains widths even more could make it work better
No one is advocating that the rim needs to be bigger in basketball because some shots bounce out, and no one is advocating in the cup has to be bigger in ball golf because the ball lips around the cup and comes out. We should be striving for perfection, not making it easier
Exactly. You’d take what we consider good putts and make them more prone to bad luck.
@@Arrica101 but what’s a good shot in basketball? A swish right? We’ll in this case a dead center putt, which is arguably exactly what you’d call a good putt, is significantly more likely to bounce out.
@@Arrica101 Agreed, any new design should catch as well on a low and mid center hit. It can be done. Mach 3's spit out and I've played on those for 30 odd years. lol
Due to size being reduce I the circle. Wouldn't you need to reduce size of chains grade, and tech the length of them to be exact
also lighter chains with such a small basket makes it easier to put in disc, but also smaller in height, or liek the gap. BUT as paul said in his pod, there could be a pro basket that was only on the protour they took with them, that would be nice or atleast a good start to begin
Bring the chains in tighter like the marksman and shrink the height from band to cage and it will catch everything, looked like your outer ring of chains were almost wider than the basket.. love it tho I built a few smaller ones out here to super fun to experiment with. Personally I want to make them all different sizes haha
I think the reason why they don't change the basket is because they still have a ton of disc that are approve to play dating back all the way from 1964. plus their are a few modern disc that are bigger in width than a regular disc golf disc.
That's about the size of a MVP Macro basket's cage. It's a doable putt, but you'd want to come in a little nose up to get the disc to pop vertical than fall. I'd be curious to see if different chain layouts (net vs curtain, say) affects the putts.
So I have always wanted a band that was slanted. When I saw you slated the top in I was hoping to see the band hit. I believe that was the most important thing redesigned.
The black hole had a noticeable angle going up from the base of the basket to the rim. When you compare the top rims diameter to the top bands diameter they seem almost on top of each other. It seems if a middle ground were to be found that top rim of the basket could be played with so its more bowl shaped and less bucket shaped. ( not to the degree that it is a bowl shape just adjusting in that direction.) Chain weight and design could also be metaled with.
It's also worth noting that the basket that's been modified, wasn't sure good basket to start with. The chain looks light and typically the heavier the chain, the better its catching (there's a sweet spot I know but you get my point.). I love this video and it's a great proof of concept. I'd love to see it done again but with 2 identical baskets 😊
That looks like what needs to happen. the odga should look at this as a model for change going forward.
I think the first time y’all resized it was ideal. The basket isn’t huge anymore but also not two small where there’s gonna be a ton of spit outs from outer circle. Aces for sure will be way harder considering the speed the disc will be coming to the hole at. And just a couple chains added to slow down the spin more so that they have more of a chance to fall in the basket than to spit out.
I think the smaller basket makes it more comparable to golf. A big difference imo from disc golf to ball golf is putting wise people are draining putts in disc golf vs ball golf.
The big part of the proposed basket I think is the proportions don't seem to be the same as the standard basket. By that I mean that the rim on the top of the basket cage sticks out farther than the chain band more so on a standard basket. I think what would be awesome is trying to find the ratio of the chain band to the basket size, and making it more accurate as far as the size goes when building the smaller one.
I’d tweak it two ways. Heavier chains on the new basket bc those looked almost the weight of plastic compared to the other. The other tweet is make the top a half an inch wider than the bottom total to help catch a tiny bit better.
Bringing the baskets down to a more difficult size does make some sense but I believe it will introduce more frequent events of chance. Mainly role-always that feel like an unfortunate unlucky skill negating part of disc golf. If a small basket becomes standard how do you feel about making circle one topography more standard? Removing baskets on the side of hills or just cutting a circle one area flat? Food for thought?
Is there any other sports that have done similar changes?
i think a tighter chain formation on the smaller basket would allow a larger catch zone for the basket, it looks like the chains are to hanging loose so that will push the disc out of the basket when they chains return to there resting position if its just straight up and down or had a little more tension it could knock the disc in the smaller basket
also just got my shirt and a mini ordered today !!
I think that the ratio of top diameter to bottom diameter might be a bigger factor here. Looking at the two baskets side by side, it seems to me that you have a very similar top to bottom diameter ratio on the new basket where the original seems to have a much smaller top. That might be why it pushes discs out easier.
I have a mach vii basket and its awesom
My biggest issue with this as a competitive basket is the chain outs due to the smaller catching area. I'd rather see pros challenged with the same size basket but the narrower chain width of a Marksman Lite. That way you're still challenging the left to right accuracy without unnecessarily hurting good putts that unluckily bounce out with the narrower basket.
Hiw about raised baskets eg of suspended structures or trees to make putting harder.
I myself feel the idea of the basket design was to hit the target and the target was meant to be the pole. The chains and basket were only to make retrieving the disc easier. Ideally, the basket should stay the same size, but the chains should only extend from the post the width of the largest legal diameter (30 cm) of a disc. In other words, the chains should not be so wide, but the basket can be since hitting the target is really about hitting the post.
I understand why this would be a conversation, but I think it would be a massive tragedy to change the basket now.
First, disc golf is taking off in a major way, partly due to some amazing highlight clips that make their way into the mainstream. Any time a sport changes rules to increase difficulty, you lose some of those highlights and in turn some interest.
Secondly, the sport is currently building an impressive resume of records, including course records, championships, putting percentages, and so many other things which would have to be either tossed or asterisked with a major change like a basket update. Unnecessary.
I think the answer is what DD does with the marksman: make a separate, new competition or category of competition with the new basket, but don't eliminate the old one. If it's really better, everything will gravitate to the new system. I bet it doesn't, though.
Appreciate the thoughtful feedback Caleb!
This is definitely the future thing and it is good to talk about it now. It may just continue to get harder to change it as the years pass though
Kinda looks like the top of the basket to the band is also two frisbee tall? Possibly shorten the height down two disc not frisbees. Has to be a metal or another material out there we could use make the inside pole smaller as well.
Now you have think about the chain thickness and the distance between band to basket