"Stereo works great in places where everyone can hear both the speakers... If the whole crowd can only hear one side of the speakers, then you probably don't want to be doing something in stereo." Well said. There's a reason movie theaters are usually long and narrow rooms - making it easier for every person to hear each speaker..
Sorry, but pan hard is not the only way to achieve stereo, you can do a stereo-ish mix too, in my experience when I am only a listener in the crowd, that makes a beautiful sound, either metal, rock or classic. Just a tiny bit of panning, 10 to 30% is good. And in small gigs I never go beyond 50%
Regarding panning you never fully pan left or right you run synth at 8 and 4 (2 channels for synth), guitars 10 and 2 or if you run a matrix you run guitar mono into all speakers (ideal), and voices run mono into all speakers/center, drums are a little more forgiving depending on the room (case by case basis).
I always do the LR send to the PA. I always start with the pan knobs at 12:00. If I get the mix together early, I’ll start panning. A question I have is, why if the output pattern of the PA is super wide? Will that be ok if you do panning? I did a show in a 63ft stage. I did not pan because it was so wide. Why if I had a speaker on each side of the stage with a 110 degree horizontal pattern, with front will? Would I be able to pan I. That situation?
Panning only benefits the person at FOH and the people that are sitting directly down the center of the area between the speakers. A 63ft. wide stage is rather large! Good that you did not pan the speakers for that show. Having a front-fill speaker will help with the physics issues of panning, but the front-fill may need to be at the same height of the L/R speakers to be fully effective with panning. As well, it may take several front-fill speakers to "fill" the area in front of the stage (especially on very wide stages). A large horizontal pattern may help, but due to physics, the wider the stage is, there will still be issues no matter how wide the horizontal coverage is. The physics of sound is still present no matter how wide the stage is. Though, as the video references, it is better to run a mono FOH if the speakers spacing is too wide.
This video is 6 years old, but still very relevant. My band has a Behringer X18 board, a couple of 2000w power amps, passive FOH speakers, and monitors (which we've always daisey chained and run mono). Recently one of our FOH speakers had a catastrophic magnet failure after a fall, and we pulled a couple of Peavey SP4 loudspeakers out of storage and a nice quiet Peavey CS 4000 amp to run them. The speakers are not being run in bi-amp mode. Being the guy that has learned to run the FOH over the last 5 years (and I'm still learning), I found I had the opportunity to run the speakers in stereo. Something that never really presented itself with the old FOH, and I love tinkering with my home theatre, and also recording on the X18, so I figured why not set up the SP4s in stereo. Well I'll be damned if (go figure) my lead guitarist/vocalist/know it all is just NO help in getting any sort of usable advice other than an obstinate "USE MONO". I kinda want to strangle him for never opening up to new ideas (surprise surprise he's like that with other aspects of the band and music too). His idea of cabling was also only running the amp in stereo and, and daisy chaining the speakers, effectively only using one half of the amp which drives me nuts knowing we were leaving power on the table. I've set up the stereo SP4s in the band room and they do sound great, and I want to thank you for your video explaining the uses in live audio, and in PA set up in general. It was very informative, and has given me the confidence to use the parallel mode on the amp to run the system in mono to test the difference for my own curiosity. No matter how many other videos I've watched, almost none of them explain and or demonstrate how to effectively actually USE stereo/parallel/bridge mode on amps. Yours was the final and most informative piece of that puzzle. Thanks again, and you got yourself a new subscriber.
Most large venues or outdoor festivals will have mono or inverted stereo front-fill to cope up with the "missing " musical informations ie one guitar panned to left and the other panned to right .In the event of having larger ( stage width wise) crowd than the stage most sound providers will have side-hangs in inverted stereo to cover for that same lost of information .Nowadays it is sort of fixed by sound providers who will provide Line Arrays as it is some sort of the norm in Live Sound .
Very topical topic. I have run across a mix of both mono and stereo set ups, as a local sound person gigging with a band. I get both ways completely, and I choose to run in stereo. Let me ask all of you... Can a crowd tell the difference? Probably not. I run sound as I want to hear it, so stereo it is. I like to pan instruments like what is on the stage. This also lets the vocals live with kick, snare, and bass. I totally get why mono could be better for larger venues too. But I have has a sound person tell me it was also on account of bridging the amps for a louder show. That didn't make sense to me on account of loud shows suck. Much over 100 DB is too much for most places we play in. Love to hear what you have to say on this.
Man this cleared up a lot of confusion for me because some say stereo is best and then some say mono sounds better. Now I know why I have been running stereo both channels out of mixer both channels on crossover and eq and really doesn't sound right with big speakers on each side of stage about 35 feet apart. Now it makes sense. Thanks for this valuable info and clearing up the confusion in my mind anyway.
Thanks for the comment. Make sure you have everything panned (L) or (R) - which ever you want to use for the mono FOH feed. The pan settings can stay in the middle, however, when panning full (L) or (R), you'll get a 3db increase in output.
+stageleftaudio thank you for your reminder. However, have you stumble across Dave Rat's video about it (frontman for the Red hot Chili Peppers) where he clearly shows the "issues" with mono mixes in live sound? Very interesting indeed, but nevertheless I'll give it a try. ;) Again, Thank You!
Over the years, I have viewed several of Dave's videos, but have not seen the mono mix one (I'll look for it). From what I have seen on his videos, he does a lot of stereo mixing. Unfortunately, I haven't heard him mix a show. Good luck with the mono mix!
Thanks for the link. Great video from Dave; he's a great source to learn audio from and I'm sure many of us would love an opportunity to sit with him while he mixes one of his shows! He brings up a good point about comb filtering when using mono (same source for both speakers) and shows the benefits of using separate sources. The use of white noise was great to show the differences. Though, here's where it may get cloudy. His use of two separate white noise sources (as referenced in the video) will produce non-comb filtering audio - because... the wave forms from one of the white-noise source does not match the wave forms from the other white noise source (white noise is random signals running at constant levels - keyword being "random"). White noise audio sounds identical to us if it comes from a single source or two separate sources. Therefore when he moves the speakers around (using 2 separate sources), there's no cancellation because the audio sources are not actually identical (though they sound the same). Looking a little deeper into this... Consider any single microphone/line source on stage. Consider a snare drum... is the drum itself a "stereo" drum? Consider a vocalist... by the nature of someone singing (without a PA), is there voice in stereo...? No, it is in mono. For the entire audience to hear the snare drum or vocalist, will require their sound to be produced from both sides of the PA. Doing this in mono using either the main (L) channel from the board or (L) and (R) main from the board (together) will still produce the same wave form when coming from the FOH speakers (i.e. a mono signal). The white noise example in the video is great, but I think it over simplifies what is taking place with audio with respect to running a system in mono vs stereo. There's a lot of physics in audio that results in wave propagations and cancellations and these will occur (to some extent) no matter if a system is run in stereo or mono (especially for indoor shows). There may be something else going on with how Dave routes individual signals (i.e. vocals) through his (very impressive) sound system. He may be sending signal processing out as a stereo signal and routing it as true stereo. Most of the outboard he uses (at least in the older videos) accommodates true (L) and (R) processing... i.e. separate gates, compressors, EQs for (L) and (R) channels. Supporting a true stereo system takes up a huge amount of rackspace and can requires a lot of cabling; though, the digital world has greatly reduced the amount of outboard gear. I greatly respect Dave Rat and admire his vast knowledge. I'm very envious of his career and can only wish to have experienced the same success that he has.
Panning your mono sources left and right is not how you run a live PA in stereo. You need two separate signals for each source; one goes left, one goes right. For example, one guitar goes to two different amplifiers. Each is mic'd and one goes left, one goes right. Both sides of the audience hear the guitar, even if they can't hear both speakers. Those closest to center get the most benefit from the stereo field, but those on the ends still hear every source. Panning a signal left or right when it is the only signal for that source is not how to do it. The down side is stereo requires double the channel count and more hardware. Digital i/o helps a lot with the cabling.
If i do stereo live, i pan opposite of the respective stage positions, at least in cases where there is a respectable amount of stage backline level. I also don’t go beyond about 40% pan in either direction. Then i check each panned source in soloed out of the FOH and flip phase if need be so they don’t cancel. That way everyone heres what they are supposed to.
This make complete sense to me and you explain this very well. Let me ask you this...... Lately I keep reading about sending the lows from the mixer to the sub amp via an Aux send instead of down from the cross over. It allows you to only send what you want to the subs using the fader on individual channels. Of coarse the aux send needs to be post fader. If only one signal is going into channel 1 on the sub amp from the aux send, I should be able to still just send the left out put from the mixer to the mid/high amp and run both amps parallel right? I'm using an XR18 digital board. Thank you in advance.
Why use 2 channels for lows when mixing in stereo? I either use mono out with built in 200Hz low pass in my table to drive the subs or the internal crossover in my sub amplifier, first option uses 3 return channels, the latter only 2. I pan most of the signals center, but I do a slight L/R panning for the drums overheads, keyboards if on stereo and guitars if I have 2.
Most all instruments (like a guitar, electronic drum) must connect to a mixer first, so the mixer can "amplify" the signal... which is then sent to an amplifier. However, the guitar and electronic drums must have a pre-amp on them (like a DI box) to allow the signal (amplified signal) to be sent to a mixer.
For DJs, I mix in Mono during Dinner/cocktail hours, then I seamlessly switch to Stereo once everyone gets on the center dancefloor. Luckily, Virtual DJ, and Serato has the option to switch between Mono and Stereo.
I've watched this video and it's left me a little curious; you've mentioned using two returns in your snake for a mono FOH mix, one for high and the other low. I have my speaker processor in my amp rack and only use two returns when mixing in stereo. As a question of curiosity, why do you keep your speaker processor in your FOH Booth? Couldn't you move it to the amp rack and save another return?
Good question. Keeping a speaker processor at FOH allows for continuous control over the sound system. Though, if most shows are the same (type of music, venue, number of attendees, same setup, same speakers, etc...), keeping the speaker processor at the amp rack is acceptable. Though, when running larger shows with multiple bands along with occasional added speakers (i.e. center fills, cardiod sub), having the ability to immediately make changes to the sound system (to accommodate different bands, number of guests in the listening/seating areas, etc...) is extremely important.
Hi SLA. Thanks for your informative video. Unfortunately I still can't quite figure my large pro audio system out to patch it and run it correctly - mainly I'd like to check how I power the subs - with my setup, perhaps I should be running the amp in parallel mono for the subs? I'm a pro musician - our band plays a lot of large venues. My sole amp is a Camco Quadro Vortex 3 4-channel amplifier (rated 750w into 4 ohms per channel), and it powers my double NEXO PS8 system (which is 4 x ps8 boxes for the tops, and 4 x LS400 subs - I run two of each of these boxes per side (so 4 tops and 4 bottoms in total). I run the PS8 top boxes in stereo.. 2 per side, so a 4 ohm lode per side out of amp channels B and D in stereo. The individual sub boxes are 6-ohm boxes, so I link two boxes together per side, out of amp channels A and C, so those 4 boxes would be a 3-ohm load per side - per amp channel there, as I have all four amp channels switched to stereo. But I suspect I'm not running the subs as powerfully as I could be, so may not be getting the maximum bottom end out of the amp, but I think the A&C sub channels are being pushed quite hard regardless of the modest output. Can you please tell me how I should patch this particular system to get the absolute MAXIMUM out of the amp for the subs? It's loud, and sounds clean, but I suspect it's capable of much more, if I patch it correctly - would parallel mono for sub channels A & C in this case be better than just running it in stereo with this heavy 3-ohm load per amp channel? I use the original blue analogue NEXO TD Controller for full speaker management, as is Nexo's requirement.
Looks like you are getting as much as you can from the amplifier. The amp is looking at the load (speaker load) that is presented to it... whether it comes from 2 speakers attached it in stereo or bridged. Actually, running an amplifier in bridged mode places a huge load on the amp. Bridging an amp doubles the voltage (which is great for higher ohm loads), but it does not produce more current (which is what is needed for lower ohm loads - ie 4 ohms and less). Keeping the amp in "stereo" mode is probably your best choice (sometimes, it's more important to look at efficiency than to always focus on power). The power rating of the amp and your subs (assuming you are using FBT LS cabinets...?) is pretty good. Before you look at more power for the subs, take a look at your speaker management settings. Many times, the lack of bass (or perceived lack of bass) comes from incorrect tuning of a processor (xover setting not right, incorrect filters used, etc...) and (more importantly) improper EQ/tuning of the bass channels (i.e. bass guitar, kick drum, floor drum, etc..) on the mixing console. Usually, an adjustment with levels from the console can make a big difference. Start with the console, then move to the speaker processor. If you feel like you've done all you can, you may need to get another (more powerful) amplifier for the subs.
Thanks mate. No, I don't have FBT Audio LS speakers - my LS sub cabinets are all Nexo LS400 cabinets. They're stunning subs for their tiny size, which I suppose is why they cost what they do! Thanks for the info.. will definitely try it out next gig!
Thank you for your comment. It depends if the electronic drum kit has a stereo output only, or if it allows an output for each drum and cymbal. If the drum kit allows for all outputs (sometimes 8 or 10 outputs), it's easy to mix drum kit with the band, because each output can be controlled. If the drum kit only has 2 outputs (assuming L/R), it takes more work to watch the levels because the single outputs can't be controlled, which can lead to the drums being too loud and cymbals being too quiet.
First of thank, thank you so very much for sharing this info. How can I setup a Mono mix using my Behringer X32. The mixer has 2 panning modes, LR+Mono and LCR. I have 2 powered speakers for the main and 2 passive speakers for the sub. Any suggestion would greatly appreciated.
Thank you for the comment. If the X32 has a "mono" output, use that one. If it doesn't, just pan everything to one side (L or R). With panning, it's common practice to use the Left output.
Pre-recorded music that is in stereo will need a "stereo" setup in order to hear the "stereo image" as it was recorded. It will sort of work in mono, but will not sound the same.
I always run stereo, but you point something important, people gets half of the music if they are way far to the left or right, and the speakers are far as well. That had set me up to think about to try at least once a mono set up. Somehow I clearly notice mids and highs quality drops in mono. Well something I had always heard on events, specially once, when a world famous DJ was switching from stereo to mono and viceversa during all his performance. Even my wife noticed it, she asked me why sound changed a lot during the event? We could noticed from stereo sounds to mono sounds and from mono sounds to stereo sounds switching several times. Clarity sounds on mono can't be as well on stereo. But I have to ask you is it live sound likely, better or poor comparing it from a sound of a compact disc, mp3, wav or a vinyl?
Pre-recorded music (i.e. for DJ use, etc.) does not sound good in mono, especially if the recordings are done in stereo (which most all pre-recorded music is). Combining stereo signals into one signal for mono causes frequency cancellations. Mono for live sound is different. It sounds just as good (and most times better) than a stereo mix. Basically for live sound, this is due to the source of the music (the instruments, vocals, etc...); these are in their own separate channel, and when mixing mono, those signals are added to the overall mix from their own channel. When using pre-recorded music, you have no control of the "channels" when playing back.
Thank You, Thats a great point to decide in between stereo or mono set up. In my personal case I have to attach to stereo to keep those prerecorded signals as they are. And pretty sure to go for mono if I ever set up audio for a live sound event.
There is no panning. What comes out of the left side will come out of the right and vice-versa. With large stages, only a small portion of the audience gets the benefit of stereo; using mono, everyone hears the same thing. However, if the stage is small, stereo can be used with good results.
Agreed great video surely. If im using 2 powered subs + 2 powered tops (both subs have built in xovers and parellel outs), i run a single xlr from board out mono(L) to first sub input (L) - then im unsure on where to cable from the first subwoofer...?? If daisychaining what order from the parallel sub xlr out?
There's a couple of ways of getting the mono signal to powered speakers. If your subs have actual parallel outs, connect the mono signal from your board (or snake) to one of the subs (it doesn't matter which one). Then, just run an XLR from that sub, using the parallel XLR connection on the sub, to your other sub. Then, connect the top speakers to their respective subs (using the sub's mid/high XLR output) like you normally would. The only daisy-chaining is on the subs. The tops connect directly to the sub they are associated with. The other method (if subs don't have parallel outs) - place a "Y" connector at the end of the mono XLR cable (at the stage end). Then, run separate XLR cables from the "Y" connector to each sub. Then, connect the tops to their respective subs (as you normally would). Hope this helps.
+stageleftaudio bro you help immensely on the topics you share info on- much appreciated! thanks for helping my learning proce$$. maximizing sound...you make audio sense. peace
Both speakers (on the left/right side of the stage) will be producing the same signal as each other. This equates to the entire listening/seating area hearing the same signal. Also - less wiring, less controls (only 1 EQ channel is needed), simplifies the wiring during setup and trouble-shooting; mono events sound better. Stereo works great in small halls, but not larger ones!
It always sounds better in mono at large events. Nearly all instruments are mono by the nature of what they are. A drum is a mono instrument! A stereo mix is better for recordings and small performance halls. All of our shows (regardless of size) are in mono.
@@stageleftaudio Indeed all the instruments in the live concert are connected to mono, but when recording from the mixer in the live concert I connect in stereo for better sound quality or stay as I am mono ?
@@stageleftaudio And please another question, is it better 6.5mm or XLR in terms of sound quality and sound volume as well.. and what is the difference between them?
We do not do any recording, so we are unable to provide a good solution. However, if recording from the mixer, (assuming analog), it's usually best to provide an output (mono output) to both inputs (L/R) on the recorder. If a digital console is being used, the entire show should be able to be recorded to an onboard (or external) recording device. A separate mix-down of the recording will be needed, which could include setting up any stereo imaging that may be needed.
Sir what if on the Mixer side (Fan) L or R. I set the knob on the Center position. unity gain or 0 level.. that makes my stereo output to be balance from the audience?.
Let me ask you. Instead of using pan for clarity in stereo, for separation of the instruments, in mono EQ becomes almost critical for this job, would you agree?
Hello Andrew, and thanks for the comment. I am thinking about using mono on one band at their next gig. I also never thought about full panning to the left on all tracks for mono. I used center detent. A lot of trial is in my future.
EQ (channel EQ) can help. Though, it's important to cut frequencies first before adding to help bring out instruments. Make sure the channel gain is set appropriately. Proper gain can many times bring out an instrument/vocals better than EQ.
Can I use a mono set up with my amps in stereo mode? I have two amps one for tops one for sub/subs depending on venue. Oh and I use a dbx 223xs between the mixer and amps.
Yes. Depending on your amps, some will "parallel" the input signal to the other channel of the amp. Something to keep in mind with "stereo" mode; Stereo means two channel. Both don't always need to be used. For your 223, you would just use one side of the crossover (if using the crossover in "stereo" mode), or you could run the crossover in 3-way mono mode.
I will probably use mono all the time, if customer does not demand stereo. And what is stereo for live band? Vocals are mono, Drums, guitas bass etc. Some guitar effect are stereo but anyhow.
The one thing you fail to mention here is what if a room requires more volume on one side of the room than the other side. This would be a BIG disadvantage to running mono in a one cable configuration. Wiring Stereo and leaving all pans in the middle, you would be in effect running mono but have control of the volume on both sides of the room from the board. This happens a lot in venues. This configuration also give you the opportunity to eq the room on each side for a better sound no matter where you are setting in the room. Otherwise your video was very helpful.
In a large venue situation, heavy DI use, or any situation where stage volume has to completely cover backline, I almost always stick to mono. IF i use stereo, it’s because the instrumental arrangement on stage with any backtracks that may be in use allow. And again, I still never go beyond the 40% pan point, MAYBE 50% if i’m feeling brave
We’ll each to their own, but I couldn’t disagree with you more. I’ve done imaging for the better part of 50 year. From all types of venues and genres, I find those arguments usually come from lazy engineers. There are always challenges and exceptions but fewer than you think. Like I said each to there own. You did say it’s controversial, and really you spent more time justifying using less cables than describing pros and cons. There are soooo many more aspects of properly setting up the sound system and stage, backline, volume, side and front fill speakers for optimum listener enjoyment. We have two ears not just one. I’ll leave with this, imaged (stereo) sound has a profound effect on the listening part of the audience, those on the periphery that want to talk, are just noise during the performance.
Stereo sound is undeniably better when you're listening through a nice pair of headphones, or monitors. keyboard has far more nuance and detail in stereo VS a Power guitar in a simple mono configuration . The limitations of live sound make stereo a non-starter in most situations
Why? Depends on the venue. As long as people are in the throw of each side, then stereo opens up the sound significantly. I don't understand why people seem to think that live sound has to be in mono.
"Stereo works great in places where everyone can hear both the speakers... If the whole crowd can only hear one side of the speakers, then you probably don't want to be doing something in stereo." Well said. There's a reason movie theaters are usually long and narrow rooms - making it easier for every person to hear each speaker..
Andrew Bauserman Man I never thought about the theater idea, that makes all the sense in the world.
That could also have to do with everybody sitting more or les in the center of the screen, instead of at one side of it, looking at a skewed picture.
Sorry, but pan hard is not the only way to achieve stereo, you can do a stereo-ish mix too, in my experience when I am only a listener in the crowd, that makes a beautiful sound, either metal, rock or classic. Just a tiny bit of panning, 10 to 30% is good. And in small gigs I never go beyond 50%
Thanks for explaining 🙏
Regarding panning you never fully pan left or right you run synth at 8 and 4 (2 channels for synth), guitars 10 and 2 or if you run a matrix you run guitar mono into all speakers (ideal), and voices run mono into all speakers/center, drums are a little more forgiving depending on the room (case by case basis).
I always do the LR send to the PA.
I always start with the pan knobs at 12:00.
If I get the mix together early, I’ll start panning.
A question I have is, why if the output pattern of the PA is super wide? Will that be ok if you do panning?
I did a show in a 63ft stage. I did not pan because it was so wide.
Why if I had a speaker on each side of the stage with a 110 degree horizontal pattern, with front will?
Would I be able to pan I. That situation?
Panning only benefits the person at FOH and the people that are sitting directly down the center of the area between the speakers. A 63ft. wide stage is rather large! Good that you did not pan the speakers for that show. Having a front-fill speaker will help with the physics issues of panning, but the front-fill may need to be at the same height of the L/R speakers to be fully effective with panning. As well, it may take several front-fill speakers to "fill" the area in front of the stage (especially on very wide stages). A large horizontal pattern may help, but due to physics, the wider the stage is, there will still be issues no matter how wide the horizontal coverage is. The physics of sound is still present no matter how wide the stage is. Though, as the video references, it is better to run a mono FOH if the speakers spacing is too wide.
This video is 6 years old, but still very relevant.
My band has a Behringer X18 board, a couple of 2000w power amps, passive FOH speakers, and monitors (which we've always daisey chained and run mono).
Recently one of our FOH speakers had a catastrophic magnet failure after a fall, and we pulled a couple of Peavey SP4 loudspeakers out of storage and a nice quiet Peavey CS 4000 amp to run them. The speakers are not being run in bi-amp mode.
Being the guy that has learned to run the FOH over the last 5 years (and I'm still learning), I found I had the opportunity to run the speakers in stereo. Something that never really presented itself with the old FOH, and I love tinkering with my home theatre, and also recording on the X18, so I figured why not set up the SP4s in stereo.
Well I'll be damned if (go figure) my lead guitarist/vocalist/know it all is just NO help in getting any sort of usable advice other than an obstinate "USE MONO". I kinda want to strangle him for never opening up to new ideas (surprise surprise he's like that with other aspects of the band and music too). His idea of cabling was also only running the amp in stereo and, and daisy chaining the speakers, effectively only using one half of the amp which drives me nuts knowing we were leaving power on the table.
I've set up the stereo SP4s in the band room and they do sound great, and I want to thank you for your video explaining the uses in live audio, and in PA set up in general. It was very informative, and has given me the confidence to use the parallel mode on the amp to run the system in mono to test the difference for my own curiosity.
No matter how many other videos I've watched, almost none of them explain and or demonstrate how to effectively actually USE stereo/parallel/bridge mode on amps. Yours was the final and most informative piece of that puzzle.
Thanks again, and you got yourself a new subscriber.
Thank you for your great comment!
Most large venues or outdoor festivals will have mono or inverted stereo front-fill to cope up with the "missing " musical informations ie one guitar panned to left and the other panned to right .In the event of having larger ( stage width wise) crowd than the stage most sound providers will have side-hangs in inverted stereo to cover for that same lost of information .Nowadays it is sort of fixed by sound providers who will provide Line Arrays as it is some sort of the norm in Live Sound .
Very topical topic. I have run across a mix of both mono and stereo set ups, as a local sound person gigging with a band. I get both ways completely, and I choose to run in stereo. Let me ask all of you... Can a crowd tell the difference? Probably not. I run sound as I want to hear it, so stereo it is. I like to pan instruments like what is on the stage. This also lets the vocals live with kick, snare, and bass. I totally get why mono could be better for larger venues too. But I have has a sound person tell me it was also on account of bridging the amps for a louder show. That didn't make sense to me on account of loud shows suck. Much over 100 DB is too much for most places we play in. Love to hear what you have to say on this.
You did a great job on this video! Very well done. Thanks!
*Just* the kind of video I was looking for, thanks!
Man this cleared up a lot of confusion for me because some say stereo is best and then some say mono sounds better. Now I know why I have been running stereo both channels out of mixer both channels on crossover and eq and really doesn't sound right with big speakers on each side of stage about 35 feet apart. Now it makes sense. Thanks for this valuable info and clearing up the confusion in my mind anyway.
alright then! You've got me hooked... will give the FOH mono a try next gig. Thanks a lot for this very informative video.
Thanks for the comment. Make sure you have everything panned (L) or (R) - which ever you want to use for the mono FOH feed. The pan settings can stay in the middle, however, when panning full (L) or (R), you'll get a 3db increase in output.
+stageleftaudio thank you for your reminder. However, have you stumble across Dave Rat's video about it (frontman for the Red hot Chili Peppers) where he clearly shows the "issues" with mono mixes in live sound? Very interesting indeed, but nevertheless I'll give it a try. ;) Again, Thank You!
Over the years, I have viewed several of Dave's videos, but have not seen the mono mix one (I'll look for it). From what I have seen on his videos, he does a lot of stereo mixing. Unfortunately, I haven't heard him mix a show. Good luck with the mono mix!
Thanks for the link. Great video from Dave; he's a great source to learn audio from and I'm sure many of us would love an opportunity to sit with him while he mixes one of his shows!
He brings up a good point about comb filtering when using mono (same source for both speakers) and shows the benefits of using separate sources. The use of white noise was great to show the differences. Though, here's where it may get cloudy. His use of two separate white noise sources (as referenced in the video) will produce non-comb filtering audio - because... the wave forms from one of the white-noise source does not match the wave forms from the other white noise source (white noise is random signals running at constant levels - keyword being "random"). White noise audio sounds identical to us if it comes from a single source or two separate sources. Therefore when he moves the speakers around (using 2 separate sources), there's no cancellation because the audio sources are not actually identical (though they sound the same).
Looking a little deeper into this... Consider any single microphone/line source on stage. Consider a snare drum... is the drum itself a "stereo" drum? Consider a vocalist... by the nature of someone singing (without a PA), is there voice in stereo...? No, it is in mono. For the entire audience to hear the snare drum or vocalist, will require their sound to be produced from both sides of the PA. Doing this in mono using either the main (L) channel from the board or (L) and (R) main from the board (together) will still produce the same wave form when coming from the FOH speakers (i.e. a mono signal).
The white noise example in the video is great, but I think it over simplifies what is taking place with audio with respect to running a system in mono vs stereo. There's a lot of physics in audio that results in wave propagations and cancellations and these will occur (to some extent) no matter if a system is run in stereo or mono (especially for indoor shows).
There may be something else going on with how Dave routes individual signals (i.e. vocals) through his (very impressive) sound system. He may be sending signal processing out as a stereo signal and routing it as true stereo. Most of the outboard he uses (at least in the older videos) accommodates true (L) and (R) processing... i.e. separate gates, compressors, EQs for (L) and (R) channels. Supporting a true stereo system takes up a huge amount of rackspace and can requires a lot of cabling; though, the digital world has greatly reduced the amount of outboard gear.
I greatly respect Dave Rat and admire his vast knowledge. I'm very envious of his career and can only wish to have experienced the same success that he has.
Panning your mono sources left and right is not how you run a live PA in stereo. You need two separate signals for each source; one goes left, one goes right. For example, one guitar goes to two different amplifiers. Each is mic'd and one goes left, one goes right. Both sides of the audience hear the guitar, even if they can't hear both speakers. Those closest to center get the most benefit from the stereo field, but those on the ends still hear every source. Panning a signal left or right when it is the only signal for that source is not how to do it. The down side is stereo requires double the channel count and more hardware. Digital i/o helps a lot with the cabling.
If i do stereo live, i pan opposite of the respective stage positions, at least in cases where there is a respectable amount of stage backline level. I also don’t go beyond about 40% pan in either direction. Then i check each panned source in soloed out of the FOH and flip phase if need be so they don’t cancel. That way everyone heres what they are supposed to.
Quick question!!! what about Mono Sub and Stereo Tops?
Stereo tops will still present an issue!
This make complete sense to me and you explain this very well. Let me ask you this...... Lately I keep reading about sending the lows from the mixer to the sub amp via an Aux send instead of down from the cross over. It allows you to only send what you want to the subs using the fader on individual channels. Of coarse the aux send needs to be post fader.
If only one signal is going into channel 1 on the sub amp from the aux send, I should be able to still just send the left out put from the mixer to the mid/high amp and run both amps parallel right? I'm using an XR18 digital board. Thank you in advance.
Yes, you are correct on your wiring. The amplifiers don't care where or how the signals get to them, just as long as they have received them.
Hello. but if I set the DSP processor to each l+r output so that each of the 4 outputs is mono? i.e. total l+r. It is wrong? or the same thing? thanks
From what you described, sounds like they would all be the same outputs.
Thank you!
fantastuc video. ive been a mono snob. i am going to embrace mono now ☺
Fantastic video thank you. You have answered all my questions. Respect
Why use 2 channels for lows when mixing in stereo? I either use mono out with built in 200Hz low pass in my table to drive the subs or the internal crossover in my sub amplifier, first option uses 3 return channels, the latter only 2.
I pan most of the signals center, but I do a slight L/R panning for the drums overheads, keyboards if on stereo and guitars if I have 2.
“Double snake returns” not if you run Dante. It’d be the same as mono
please i have a question not related to video. can i connect from guiter or drum or anything to amp........... dierct with to go to mixer first ?
Most all instruments (like a guitar, electronic drum) must connect to a mixer first, so the mixer can "amplify" the signal... which is then sent to an amplifier. However, the guitar and electronic drums must have a pre-amp on them (like a DI box) to allow the signal (amplified signal) to be sent to a mixer.
@@stageleftaudio thank u for you for your help
For DJs, I mix in Mono during Dinner/cocktail hours, then I seamlessly switch to Stereo once everyone gets on the center dancefloor. Luckily, Virtual DJ, and Serato has the option to switch between Mono and Stereo.
Stereo is great if done right. Should have left & right electric guitar & keys panned both ways to create a wider mix.
please i want to ask can i use adapter to change from TRS to TS and i connect it to guitar and mixer TRS on mixer ?
You would need a direct-box (DI) to connect a guitar directly to mixer. The signal output of the guitar is not loud enough for a mixer input.
I've watched this video and it's left me a little curious; you've mentioned using two returns in your snake for a mono FOH mix, one for high and the other low. I have my speaker processor in my amp rack and only use two returns when mixing in stereo. As a question of curiosity, why do you keep your speaker processor in your FOH Booth? Couldn't you move it to the amp rack and save another return?
Good question. Keeping a speaker processor at FOH allows for continuous control over the sound system. Though, if most shows are the same (type of music, venue, number of attendees, same setup, same speakers, etc...), keeping the speaker processor at the amp rack is acceptable. Though, when running larger shows with multiple bands along with occasional added speakers (i.e. center fills, cardiod sub), having the ability to immediately make changes to the sound system (to accommodate different bands, number of guests in the listening/seating areas, etc...) is extremely important.
Hi SLA. Thanks for your informative video. Unfortunately I still can't quite figure my large pro audio system out to patch it and run it correctly - mainly I'd like to check how I power the subs - with my setup, perhaps I should be running the amp in parallel mono for the subs? I'm a pro musician - our band plays a lot of large venues. My sole amp is a Camco Quadro Vortex 3 4-channel amplifier (rated 750w into 4 ohms per channel), and it powers my double NEXO PS8 system (which is 4 x ps8 boxes for the tops, and 4 x LS400 subs - I run two of each of these boxes per side (so 4 tops and 4 bottoms in total). I run the PS8 top boxes in stereo.. 2 per side, so a 4 ohm lode per side out of amp channels B and D in stereo. The individual sub boxes are 6-ohm boxes, so I link two boxes together per side, out of amp channels A and C, so those 4 boxes would be a 3-ohm load per side - per amp channel there, as I have all four amp channels switched to stereo. But I suspect I'm not running the subs as powerfully as I could be, so may not be getting the maximum bottom end out of the amp, but I think the A&C sub channels are being pushed quite hard regardless of the modest output. Can you please tell me how I should patch this particular system to get the absolute MAXIMUM out of the amp for the subs? It's loud, and sounds clean, but I suspect it's capable of much more, if I patch it correctly - would parallel mono for sub channels A & C in this case be better than just running it in stereo with this heavy 3-ohm load per amp channel? I use the original blue analogue NEXO TD Controller for full speaker management, as is Nexo's requirement.
Looks like you are getting as much as you can from the amplifier. The amp is looking at the load (speaker load) that is presented to it... whether it comes from 2 speakers attached it in stereo or bridged. Actually, running an amplifier in bridged mode places a huge load on the amp. Bridging an amp doubles the voltage (which is great for higher ohm loads), but it does not produce more current (which is what is needed for lower ohm loads - ie 4 ohms and less). Keeping the amp in "stereo" mode is probably your best choice (sometimes, it's more important to look at efficiency than to always focus on power). The power rating of the amp and your subs (assuming you are using FBT LS cabinets...?) is pretty good. Before you look at more power for the subs, take a look at your speaker management settings. Many times, the lack of bass (or perceived lack of bass) comes from incorrect tuning of a processor (xover setting not right, incorrect filters used, etc...) and (more importantly) improper EQ/tuning of the bass channels (i.e. bass guitar, kick drum, floor drum, etc..) on the mixing console. Usually, an adjustment with levels from the console can make a big difference. Start with the console, then move to the speaker processor. If you feel like you've done all you can, you may need to get another (more powerful) amplifier for the subs.
Thanks mate. No, I don't have FBT Audio LS speakers - my LS sub cabinets are all Nexo LS400 cabinets. They're stunning subs for their tiny size, which I suppose is why they cost what they do! Thanks for the info.. will definitely try it out next gig!
I like your videos. Very informative. Question, how do you mix the band if the drummer is using Electronic Drums.
Thank you for your comment. It depends if the electronic drum kit has a stereo output only, or if it allows an output for each drum and cymbal. If the drum kit allows for all outputs (sometimes 8 or 10 outputs), it's easy to mix drum kit with the band, because each output can be controlled. If the drum kit only has 2 outputs (assuming L/R), it takes more work to watch the levels because the single outputs can't be controlled, which can lead to the drums being too loud and cymbals being too quiet.
First of thank, thank you so very much for sharing this info. How can I setup a Mono mix using my Behringer X32. The mixer has 2 panning modes, LR+Mono and LCR. I have 2 powered speakers for the main and 2 passive speakers for the sub. Any suggestion would greatly appreciated.
Thank you for the comment. If the X32 has a "mono" output, use that one. If it doesn't, just pan everything to one side (L or R). With panning, it's common practice to use the Left output.
@@stageleftaudio Thank you so very much for the reply. Should I use a Y xlr connector to split the mono output between the main speakers and subs?
For your type of setup, a "Y" connector would work out best.
Will this work for home stereo/mono speaker listening? (Receiver/amp) Will I hear all of the nuisances in mono sound as if stereo?
Pre-recorded music that is in stereo will need a "stereo" setup in order to hear the "stereo image" as it was recorded. It will sort of work in mono, but will not sound the same.
@@stageleftaudio Tq.
I always run stereo, but you point something important, people gets half of the music if they are way far to the left or right, and the speakers are far as well. That had set me up to think about to try at least once a mono set up. Somehow I clearly notice mids and highs quality drops in mono. Well something I had always heard on events, specially once, when a world famous DJ was switching from stereo to mono and viceversa during all his performance. Even my wife noticed it, she asked me why sound changed a lot during the event? We could noticed from stereo sounds to mono sounds and from mono sounds to stereo sounds switching several times. Clarity sounds on mono can't be as well on stereo. But I have to ask you is it live sound likely, better or poor comparing it from a sound of a compact disc, mp3, wav or a vinyl?
Pre-recorded music (i.e. for DJ use, etc.) does not sound good in mono, especially if the recordings are done in stereo (which most all pre-recorded music is). Combining stereo signals into one signal for mono causes frequency cancellations. Mono for live sound is different. It sounds just as good (and most times better) than a stereo mix. Basically for live sound, this is due to the source of the music (the instruments, vocals, etc...); these are in their own separate channel, and when mixing mono, those signals are added to the overall mix from their own channel. When using pre-recorded music, you have no control of the "channels" when playing back.
Thank You, Thats a great point to decide in between stereo or mono set up. In my personal case I have to attach to stereo to keep those prerecorded signals as they are. And pretty sure to go for mono if I ever set up audio for a live sound event.
Excellent instructional video!
Hi. What happens if the musician is utilising panning effects in their music?
There is no panning. What comes out of the left side will come out of the right and vice-versa. With large stages, only a small portion of the audience gets the benefit of stereo; using mono, everyone hears the same thing. However, if the stage is small, stereo can be used with good results.
Nice explained.. thanks.
Agreed great video surely. If im using 2 powered subs + 2 powered tops (both subs have built in xovers and parellel outs), i run a single xlr from board out mono(L) to first sub input (L) - then im unsure on where to cable from the first subwoofer...??
If daisychaining what order from the parallel sub xlr out?
There's a couple of ways of getting the mono signal to powered speakers. If your subs have actual parallel outs, connect the mono signal from your board (or snake) to one of the subs (it doesn't matter which one). Then, just run an XLR from that sub, using the parallel XLR connection on the sub, to your other sub. Then, connect the top speakers to their respective subs (using the sub's mid/high XLR output) like you normally would. The only daisy-chaining is on the subs. The tops connect directly to the sub they are associated with.
The other method (if subs don't have parallel outs) - place a "Y" connector at the end of the mono XLR cable (at the stage end). Then, run separate XLR cables from the "Y" connector to each sub. Then, connect the tops to their respective subs (as you normally would).
Hope this helps.
+stageleftaudio bro you help immensely on the topics you share info on- much appreciated! thanks for helping my learning proce$$. maximizing sound...you make audio sense.
peace
Thank you for your comment.
My preference is Stereo
Stereo setup but just keep everything panned center as it should. Simple. Panning is essential in recording but in live it should be left alone.
Great info!
Quick question: what are the benefits of mono?
Thanks!
Both speakers (on the left/right side of the stage) will be producing the same signal as each other. This equates to the entire listening/seating area hearing the same signal.
Also - less wiring, less controls (only 1 EQ channel is needed), simplifies the wiring during setup and trouble-shooting; mono events sound better.
Stereo works great in small halls, but not larger ones!
@@stageleftaudio I got that. Was joking. Great job on this video.
LOL
Thank you!
Please I play electronic drums at big live concerts, is it better stereo or mono in terms of sound quality?
It always sounds better in mono at large events. Nearly all instruments are mono by the nature of what they are. A drum is a mono instrument! A stereo mix is better for recordings and small performance halls. All of our shows (regardless of size) are in mono.
@@stageleftaudio
Indeed all the instruments in the live concert are connected to mono, but when recording from the mixer in the live concert I connect in stereo for better sound quality or stay as I am mono ?
@@stageleftaudio
And please another question, is it better 6.5mm or XLR in terms of sound quality and sound volume as well.. and what is the difference between them?
We do not do any recording, so we are unable to provide a good solution. However, if recording from the mixer, (assuming analog), it's usually best to provide an output (mono output) to both inputs (L/R) on the recorder. If a digital console is being used, the entire show should be able to be recorded to an onboard (or external) recording device. A separate mix-down of the recording will be needed, which could include setting up any stereo imaging that may be needed.
As long as the cable used is balanced (TRS connections for a 6.5mm), there should be no difference in sound quality.
Great video..
Thanks for the visit
Sir what if on the Mixer side (Fan) L or R. I set the knob on the Center position. unity gain or 0 level.. that makes my stereo output to be balance from the audience?.
That is correct.
Let me ask you. Instead of using pan for clarity in stereo, for separation of the instruments, in mono EQ becomes almost critical for this job, would you agree?
I think you are right, Kern. If the room isn't too live, you can use reverb as well to move something forward/back in the mix.
Hello Andrew, and thanks for the comment. I am thinking about using mono on one band at their next gig. I also never thought about full panning to the left on all tracks for mono. I used center detent. A lot of trial is in my future.
EQ (channel EQ) can help. Though, it's important to cut frequencies first before adding to help bring out instruments. Make sure the channel gain is set appropriately. Proper gain can many times bring out an instrument/vocals better than EQ.
Thanks so much!
+stageleftaudio spot on GAIN STAGING FTW
Hello if going out left mono from mixer, can i still use stereo input channels and keep it panned centered?
Stereo inputs can still be used and panned center.
Of cause you can no ploblems
This is a great explanation!!
Can I use a mono set up with my amps in stereo mode? I have two amps one for tops one for sub/subs depending on venue. Oh and I use a dbx 223xs between the mixer and amps.
Yes. Depending on your amps, some will "parallel" the input signal to the other channel of the amp. Something to keep in mind with "stereo" mode; Stereo means two channel. Both don't always need to be used.
For your 223, you would just use one side of the crossover (if using the crossover in "stereo" mode), or you could run the crossover in 3-way mono mode.
Wow great vid and thanks for that info will give this a try this weekend !!
Right on. Gotta try everything once, right?? Learn as we go!
I will probably use mono all the time, if customer does not demand stereo. And what is stereo for live band? Vocals are mono, Drums, guitas bass etc. Some guitar effect are stereo but anyhow.
Exactly.
The one thing you fail to mention here is what if a room requires more volume on one side of the room than the other side. This would be a BIG disadvantage to running mono in a one cable configuration. Wiring Stereo and leaving all pans in the middle, you would be in effect running mono but have control of the volume on both sides of the room from the board. This happens a lot in venues. This configuration also give you the opportunity to eq the room on each side for a better sound no matter where you are setting in the room. Otherwise your video was very helpful.
In a large venue situation, heavy DI use, or any situation where stage volume has to completely cover backline, I almost always stick to mono. IF i use stereo, it’s because the instrumental arrangement on stage with any backtracks that may be in use allow. And again, I still never go beyond the 40% pan point, MAYBE 50% if i’m feeling brave
thank you very much!
❤❤❤
We’ll each to their own, but I couldn’t disagree with you more. I’ve done imaging for the better part of 50 year. From all types of venues and genres, I find those arguments usually come from lazy engineers. There are always challenges and exceptions but fewer than you think. Like I said each to there own.
You did say it’s controversial, and really you spent more time justifying using less cables than describing pros and cons.
There are soooo many more aspects of properly setting up the sound system and stage, backline, volume, side and front fill speakers for optimum listener enjoyment.
We have two ears not just one.
I’ll leave with this, imaged (stereo) sound has a profound effect on the listening part of the audience, those on the periphery that want to talk, are just noise during the performance.
Thank you for the comment.
Oh boy i have been doing it wrong
Stereo sound is undeniably better when you're listening through a nice pair of headphones, or monitors. keyboard has far more nuance and detail in stereo VS a Power guitar in a simple mono configuration . The limitations of live sound make stereo a non-starter in most situations
Why? Depends on the venue. As long as people are in the throw of each side, then stereo opens up the sound significantly. I don't understand why people seem to think that live sound has to be in mono.
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