I never realize that the word “Sith” was referenced in the original trilogy. On merchandise from back in the day, Vader was referred to as a “Dark Lord of the Sith”. Like I said, I never noticed that not being mentioned in the OG films; I just assumed it was in there somewhere,
I remember when I was a kid, I would watch the trilogy over and over again, trying to learn as much as I could about the Force and what it truly meant. Each time I watched it with fresh eyes, challenging my presumptions. I'd look in dictionaries and encyclopedias to research religions and terms, trying to figure out where George Lucas got his inspiration from. By the time the Jedi were fully explained in the books, I was already a master.
I remember the toys at the time having Vader's title as "Dark Lord of the Sith", but we didn't know what that meant, it just sounded kinda cool...It took us awhile, but we finally got the full story!
Sith meant, "The Since"; meaning, a race and religion from a long ago era. Since Dark Side Force-users were last known to have existed over 1000 years ago, anything related to them was always seen as something from the distance of time and place.
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567, the word "sith" actually used to mean "since" in English, as did "sin". Geoffrey Chaucer uses these words in the Canterburry Tales.
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 "Sith" does show up in Old English (Shakespeare also uses it once), but it's equally probable that Lucas got the word from an alien insect that appears in John Carter of Mars (which also has the word "Banths")...which was much closer to his sources!
Vader was often referred to as a/the Dark Lord Of The Sith in publicity for the first movie. It was never elaborated on. It didn't seem to arouse much curiosity among fans. As far as titles went, people were far more intrigued by what a Moff was and what in particular made one Grand.
Not even George was able to predict the success of Star Wars. That was why he had Alan Dean Foster write Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which likely would have been the sequel had Star Wars not become the huge hit it was. Granted, I am sure he had some inkling of what he had on his hands, considering his focus on the merchandising rights, but still not on the scale it became.
@@samanthaadams619 Yeah, it was odd that there were references of Darth Vader being a Sith Lord in the storybook from the first film back in 77/78 when I got the book. I was just under 10 and had no real info on the Sith other than the storybook and a few other brief mentions
I actually knew Vader was a Sith before ever seeing A New Hope. It’s how he is described on the Burger Chef promo poster, which I had even before seeing the film. I remember asking my Mom what a Sith was. As you might imagine, my Mom hadn’t a clue. In 1977 we had to try to figure out a lot of backstory on our own.
As I recall, as of the original movie's scripting, "The Emperor" was more a politician, who used Vader and his power as a tool for his own ends, than being a Sith Lord in his own right... but when Lucas expanded the plot, which also included making Vader Luke's father, he also made the Emperor into a supreme paragon of the Dark Side...
@@daggerhell99 probably because the empire wouldn't have worked like that in the original script. In real life if a general murdered the president he wouldn't become the new president
From what I can remember about the original movies the emperor didn’t really become the “dark paragon of the dark side” until return of the jedi.. which in empire vader wanted Luke to join him in taking down the emperor, but in rotj he basically said the emperor is too powerful
Sorry OP but all of that is incorrect. The Lucas written novelization of A New Hope included details about Palpatine, and making Vader Luke's father was the idea of the director of Empire Strikes Back, not Lucas.
I used to mock Cassio Tagge, but now I realize. He was one of the most dedicated, capable and level headed imperial officers out there. I am truly humbled by his integrity and courage in that corrupt, hostile office environment.
This has always been one of Star Wars's greatest strengths and weakness. There is so much material outside of the movies that you can deep dive into whatever through the comics and books. But on the other hand, it's really annoying that they have to constantly patch the plots holes with them.
Regardless, at the end of the day it creates a lot of open ends to add history and more stories for us to dive into on our exploration of a galaxy far far away
@@DaPhunkPhenomena I read many of Alan Dean Foster's sci fi adaptions over the years as well as his original novels. Splinter of the Minds Eye, The Black Hole, Krull, The Last Starfighter and the his Spellsinger series were my favourites. In no particular order. Many of his other works have also entertained me. A very accomplished, but possibly underrated author.
He was also a shit writer who was saved by his editors and the studio telling him "no." Once Lucas got the power to do anything he wanted, we got "I hate sand." Lucas was great at coming up with imaginative ideas, I won't dispute that. But it was the OTHER people he worked with (even his own wife, who edited the hell out of the original film's script) who actually had the talent to bring those ideas to life.
Found my copy of the 1976 novel last night and it mentions Vader as a Sith Lord almost immediately when describing him. What is interesting is when it desribes Vader's general appearance, the wording implies *all* sith lords looked/dressed the same as Vader. As in he was but one of many who wandered about wearing black and a face mask.
And from then on in the Legends spinoff stories that kinda continued to be the case! The Kotor games had a BUNCH of sith who wore facemasks, and Ive seen no shortage of sith lords wearing masks in other star wars media. Not all, mind you, but most of the named important Sith lords
If I remember right, there were still shot from the movie in the center of the novel and they have one with the caption “Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith.” It’s been over 40 years but I remember that for some reason.
@@stuartbagley2586 No not in the 1976 edition I have. They do have short character summaries in the photo section, but with Vader's no mention made there of Sith. They used the headshot still of him from the deleted scene with Bast - which was one of the more common headshot they used for him back then.
@@jasemalvis2140 As I recall, Revan and Malak did wear masks not unlike Vader's - and in the Disney sequels, Kylo Ren's mask is almost an exact replica of Revan's. It took a long time for the Expanded Universe to decide exactly what the Sith looked like. Originally there was the Noghri species, which was introduced as a race of Imperial bodyguards in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy in 1991. Supposedly, the vaguely death's-head facial features of the Noghri were supposed to have inspired the look of Darth Vader's mask, until it was revealed that Vader already had his mask when he first encountered the Noghri. Then, several years later, it was decided that the Sith were a group of Dark Side cultists of many different species (mostly humans) who had appropriated the culture of an alien species from Korriban also called the Sith. I remember that a making-of book about THE PHANTOM MENACE showed that many Sith tattooed their faces, and that Darth Maul took this to the extreme.
Maybe it’s referring to the white skin, notice how him and palpatine have it but we didn’t know why in the OT maybe that was originally caused by the dark side in early drafts, and mauls early concept was similar to mother talzen and dooku was similar to ventress and both of them have pale white skin.
Technically the word sith wasn't said on screen until episode 1 but Darth Vader was always referred to, even so in writing, as dark lord of the sith. And not just in books but on his action figures and other star wars media
I first saw it on, of all things, a commemorative Empire Strikes Back glass Burger King were selling, showing Vader and Boba Fett together. A short bio on the back of the glass referred to Vader as the Lord of the Sith. I still have that glass today.
I find it also interesting to hear General Tagge criticizing the enormous budget used by the Death Star project. Throughout the series and novels, we've seen the Navy criticize the misuse of budget that should instead be used on star destroyers (Catalyst and Thrawn: Treason novels) or better and more durable fighters (Rebels). It's interesting to see that the Imperial Army is also feeling the pressure, and that Lucas was already envisioning the internal disagreement around the Death Star within the Imperial forces from the very beginning (1977).
@@scottianson5133 There's enough in the dialogue to suggest the Empire would crumble without the Death Star. "Fear will keep the systems in line. Fear of this battlestation". The impression I got way back then was that Luke and his pals would be hyping off around the galaxy getting into all sorts of post-empire adventures. Probably crossing paths with Darth Vader on a regular basis ( "You killed my father", "You bleey up my planet", "You planted a homing beacon in my ship" ) in a series of fun space romps. By the way, thanks for the SW77 moniker, I much prefer it to "A New Hope" or "The Original movie".
Not really, the fear will keep them in line is after they remove the senate. Without the detahstar they could either just have more str destroyers to bombard people to death or they could have the senate.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Well, that was before the prequels and sequels, when I thought the series was going to be about the fantastic adventures of a farm boy turned galactic warrior, rather than having the focus slowly changed until the 9 films actually end up being all about Palpatine and his attempts to produce a side-kick/heir.
It still amazes me that over 40 years later and Star Wars is still the biggest franchise in history. So much depth, so much lore, and so much passion. Thank you George Lucas for everything. Wizard.
@@SonicTheHedgehog-mh6uw Ask any random person what they know about Star Wars. Then ask them what they know about Pokémon. There’s your answer. (Hint: most people will know more about Star Wars than Pokémon)
I remember the original Kenner action figures of Darth Vader describing him as Lord of the Sith. So the word was out there, but not widely known. Anyone who read the novelization of A New Hope would also have seen General Tagge's line about Vader being a Sith lord. I remember thinking the word Sith felt very sinister and evil. And this was before Return of the Jedi came out.
Yes, marvel comics was sued because of the graphic novel. Which came out 2 weeks before Empire strike back. And had the entire novel of storytelling with out deleted pictures
Years before the prequels came out, there was a rumor going around that Lucas’ original outline for the first film was going to be the story of the rise fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker all in one film, but that Lucas decided it was too much for one film and he decided to break it up into at least six films, but possibly as many as nine movies with Luke taking Anakin’s place in parts 7-9. Hence why toys released years before the prequels came with backstories on the back of the box that said things like “Obi Wan and Vader had an legendary duel on a volcanic planet that left Vader crippled and in need of a robotic suit”
Lucas had a whole heap of ideas originally. Luke was to be the new Flash Gordon. Lucas had tried and failed to secure the rights to the old 1930s serial and decided to make his own version. As the original novel states, the whole rescue the princess and blow up the baddies was "From the adventures of Luke Skywalker." Luke was also female at one point, as can be clearly seen in one of Ralph McQuarrie's concept paintings. The impression from the novelisation is that The Empire will be mortally wounded by the destruction of the Death Star, and even more so by the death of Tarkin. It's never stated as such, but Tarkin seems to have been manipulating the doddery old Emperor to get as much power fir himself.
I remember reading that, in some childrens Scholastic, or Highlights magazine, and this was in 1980. But even then, it went into detail of 9 movies, how it was lined out. But in that magazine, that was the first time I heard of "Sith Lord".
Sometime from the release of *STAR WARS* in 1977 to the release of *THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK* in 1980, George Lucas commented publicly he had a story outline that would cover nine separate movies. The first two movies in '77 and '80, plus *RETURN OF THE JEDI* in 1983, would be the middle three of the nine.
The opening crawl of the a new hope originally had the phrase "dark lords of the sith" in it as well. I think it remained for the first couple drafts before it finally got cut out. The crawl made it sound like there were a bunch of sith that were the enforcers for the emperor (it didn't mention the emperor being one) and that Vader was the biggest and baddest of them all.
There was a VHS release of the original trilogy in the 90s (hard to find now) that had a lot of behind the scenes interviews with Lucas. He even described Anakin’s battle with Obiwan from Mustafar (years before ROTS filmed) and an ancient battle between Mandalore and the Jedi. For some reason I misunderstood it at the time and thought that Vader hired the Mandalorian army to take out most of the Jedi. What’s weird is that the story has evolved so that the Clones took out most of the Jedi, and the Clones were replicated from a Mandalorian foundling. And the armor, while not Beskar, has similarities. So it makes me wonder if the original plan did have Mandalore vs Jedi at the end of the Clone Wars, but then he changed it yo Clones vs Jedi. Who knows? And unfortunately… i can’t find that footage now.
@@PreppingWithSarge Check Star Wars the Annotated Screenplays. Many of the things from the prequels already existed in Lucas' mind prior to 1977. He had Mace Windu, dianoga, Journal of the Whills, Starkiller, Utaupu, and Mustafar in early versions of the scripts and the backstory/lore. Jedi were originally called the Jedi Bendu before he shortened it to just Jedi.
Cutting that line changes the context of Tagge's diatribe. Not only are the Imperials vulnerable to Rebel attack, the officers themselves are vulnerable to losing their positions or dying at Vader's hands or because of his perceived meddling.
I was 6 in 1977 and my parents got me out of school early to go see it. It was the star destroyer in the opening scene - not Vader's entrance later - that has always stuck with me. The sense of _size_ Lucas was able to convey with models.
It actually annoys me a bit that many of the details included in screenplays are scrapped before the filming even begins, and continue to exist - if at all - only in the films' promotional material. I realize, of course, that one of the main rules of screenwriting - and filmmaking - is "Show, don't tell." But audiences enjoy having an understanding of the strange new stuff they're seeing. What's interesting is that when a fictional story is heavily inspired by real - or at least realistic - events, the movie will indeed go into detail. THE GODFATHER, APOCALYPSE NOW, and GANGS OF NEW YORK are three films I can think of in which additional details are communicated to us either by a narrator or by a character speaking the movie's dialogue. It's supposedly a screenwriting no-no, but it can work if it's presented in a plausible manner.
I think I saw it re-released in theaters sometime between 1995-1997. It was definitely before Phantom Menace was released. I think i was only about 5 or 6, at the time. The only memory I have was the Death Star battle.
Saw it in the theaters in ‘77- it was a whole new experience to someone who grew up walking ti the neighborhood theater every Sat-the attention to details-the look of grimy looking ships-so called “used future”- the sounds seeming to come from all around you-it was definitely different!
Vader was referred to as “The Dark Lord of the Sith” from the beginning. It’s mentioned in the novelization that was published before the film’s release and Vader was described as Dark Lord of the Sith in the Scolastic published Star Wars Storybook that coincided with the movie’s release.
I had that storybook! Also, I think the Burger King Star Wars glasses that came out alongside Empire had him referred to as Dark Lord of the Sith or something very similar. It was out there as long as I can remember. (Also in the 1990's Evan Dorkin's Milk and Cheese comic has them don Darth Vader helmets and refer to themselves as Dark Lords of the Sith as they wreak mayhem on their surroundings.)
I saw Empire Strikes Back for the first time on its official release in 1980. Coming out of the cinema, my Dad bought me a copy of a fold out poster of Darth Vader, with lots of written backstory. "Dark Lord of the Sith" was very prominent in the wording and stood out for being sinister but unknown. I remember asking my Dad what "Sith" meant but he didn't know.
Cool to know the “Sith” were always part of Lucas’ idea for Star Wars, kind of intrigues me since he decided not to use it, which imo is a missed opportunity. It doesn’t give anything away about his origins, at least more than what Obi-Wan says to Luke, and it adds more to Vader’s mysterious origins, and the title “Sith Lord” is just badass and brimming with evil. Wasted opportunity there.
Well, at one point, the Clone Wars was supposed to have been the great wars fought between the Jedi Knights and the Mandalorians. Boba Fett having been one of the few remaining Mandalorian survivors. That would've been far better than what George ultimately brought to us via the Prequels.
Even in the theatrical cuts, they managed to convey that Tagge was the smartest (or at least most pragmatic) man at the table and Jerjerod's loyalty clearly lies with the Emperor and not Vader. Tagge is an underrated character. Unlike most Imperial officers, he is smart and cautious and even willing to question Imperial tactics and priorities but not in a manner to get himself Force-choked. The only one who comes close to his sensibility is Adm. Piett, though he's more of a "if I keep my head down, don't make wave and do my job, I might keep living" type.
The greatest stories are not told with every detail on show, they are revealed to you piece by piece, every step drawing you into the world that has been created for you. When you do unravel the mystery it opens your eyes, a wonderful feeling. This is why the original trilogy is superb. Storytelling is an art and George Lucas got it right in the final cut of Star Wars.
I agree it would have really added lots of credibility to the whole story arc if this reference was included. Also it does definitely sound like vadar’s first name is darth when obi wan calls him it 🤣
It is, indeed, a bit strange such a simple line was omitted, as to the reference to the Sith. Maybe it was just to not have people scratching their heads, when it was never fully explained, but I like a bit of mystery on that level. Leaves me wanting to find out more about the universe.
That is because, at the time, it WAS his first name. "Darth" as a Sith title did not exist until "Darth Maul" and "Darth Sidious." Back when Vader and Anakin were separate characters, the Sith's actual birth name was "Darth Vader." First name Darth, last name Vader.
I do remember as a kid, I too thought his first name was Darth instead of Darth being a title for Sith Lords. It would be cool if they released an extended edition with some of this gems of deleted scenes to add just a smidgen more depth for the characters and story.
Obi-Wan even calls him, 'Darth' when they duel. Sounds kind of silly, now that all the baddies are named 'Darth xx' for some reason. Also, why have two titles? Everybody already calls him, 'Lord Vader'..
I don't know how I missed the fact that "sith" is never said in the original trilogy. It is interesting how they had that subplot with the general calling out how poor a plan the death star was but I see why they removed it, it might have forced them to bring the character back or create more of a backstory for him.
@@nowthatsjustducky The phrase appeared in magazine articles as well. It just seemed like some sinister underworld club, like the Masons or the Dr Who Appreciation Society.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 I like to think that someone thought it was a cool word, and made a note to further develop it into something big later... a preplanned retcon or something like that.
Another reason why they might've cut it is that the Death Star might've seemed less foreboding and the Rebel's victory ring hollower if the film depicted an Imp officer openly calling the whole idea of it stupid.
@@jeffbenton6183 I think you're spot on, there. The big re-edit involved jettisoning anything that didn't drive the main plot. There was a lot of dialogue filmed that, while not being exposition as such, went into more detail about the politics of the Empire. Most famously in the completely deleted scene where Luke talks to Biggs at the station. I waited 40+ years to see that scene, and when I did it was a mega disappointment.
I have the original 1978 hardcover storybook and was floored to see “Sith” mentioned as I read it to my daughter. I always thought George coined that term for the Prequels 🤯
while the sith weren't mentioned on film, right from the start we knew he was a sith lord from all the written stuff and merchandise. it was mentioned in the original novelization from '76.
But how many people really knew about Star Wars lore in 1976? It was out there but the vast majority of people didn't know anything about the Star Wars saga until they set foot in the theater in 1977.
@@DixiePokerAce the book was released just six months before the movie, and unless i'm mistaken sold out before the movie premiered. i could be entirely wrong, but by 1979 i think the novelization was in it's 30th printing. i'm certain marvel's comics mention the sith, and of course those were huge sellers. imo, anything involving pre-ESB counts as 'from the start.' you're right, few people outside the culture knew about SW before the movie, but before ESB was released we had *all* heard 'dark lord of the sith' many times. i'd thought it was used on one of the trading cards, but i can't find any examples of that so i'm thinking that may be a false memory.
I remember "Sith" from the book, but I'm not sure if it ever registered with me that the word never was used in the original trilogy. There's also the emperor's name. Palpatine was in the prologue of the novelisation, but never in any of the movies, until Episode 1.
I feel like Alderaan watching this footage, completely blown away. I've seen a lot of deleted scenes from the OT over years including the Moff Jerjerrod scene you mentioned and the Luke Skywalker lightsabre construction scene from RotJ, but this is amazing. I can't believe nearly 45 years since it's release that there is still unseen footage of this quality and concern key characters still emerging. I also never realised that the Sith weren't actually mentioned by name in the OT (good spot there), and these extra bits of dialogue would have been great had they been left in. Thanks for posting, that made my day.
The Sith title is used in the 1976 novelisation of Star Wars, credited to Lucas but ghost written by Alan Dean Foster. So the fact Vader was a 'Dark Lord of the Sith' was surprisingly well known amongst Star Wars fandom, since the novel was a best seller. Admittedly more people saw the actual film itself, but the term 'Sith' was out there.
The word "Sith" may not have appeared in the original trilogy, but it was around way before any comics or books. I remember magazine articles and trading cards which were out during the original trilogy referring to Darth Vader as "Lord of the Sith".
There was a hard-bound visual book released in 1977 or 78 that had photos of the main characters with a small bio underneath each photo. Darth Vader was mentioned in this book as "A Sith Lord".
I seem to recall that most of the merchandising and magazine features, etc had some reference to him being _a_ or _the_ Dark Lord of the Sith. I also read that Darth had proven more popular than anyone expected and would feature more in future movies. It made him sound like a Moriarty to Luke's Sherlock, rather than the central figure of what would be six movies. Whether that was a publicity person's flight of fancy or one of George's passing ideas, who knows.
Kinda cool how this deleted footage lines up perfectly with modern characterization that Tarkin has in Rebels and Rogue one - a man who wants recognition, and who wants to take over the illogical super weapon, for his own ego. And his use of the weapon, ultimately makes the rebellion more popular, thus his actions escalate the conflict.
I've seen this scene before. I wish it had been included in the movie. I love the fact that Tagge was unimpressed by, and suspect of, both Vader and Tarkin...and, that's what kept him alive. He wasn't on the Death Star, because he went to look for The Rebels on Dantooine. Actually, since 1977, he was known, in all of the other SW merchandise, as: Darth Vader, Lord Of The Sith. I hope he gets referred to that way in Obi-Wan Kenobi, by The Imperials and The Inquisitorius.
Despite all the extra content on DVD releases and all the books, comics, TV shows and games the Star Wars movie are so mysterious. We're constantly finding out new things about them.
This definitely would have added more context. I vaguely remember "Dark lord of the Sith" being used on some promotional material - action figure or poster book.
I was thinking the same thing - that description was definitely on something I had back in the days of the original release. I was thinking the cardboard for the action figure (Darth was my 2nd after Chewie), or I had a giant sized Marvel comic adaptation that went about 1/3 of the way through the movie - I may have seen it in there. Somehow not recalling the exact context of first seeing a phrase 45 years ago - I must be slipping!
The conference room scene on the Death Star is performed in its entirety in the NPR radio dramatization of Star Wars by Brian Daley. Aired in 1980 and co-produced by KUSC-FM Los Angeles. Also, “Tagge” is pronounced like “tag.”
I can watch old and deleted scenes for ages! Thanks! Back in the 70's, I remember _Vader_ being identified as _The Lord of the Sith_ in magazines. Even _Famous Monsters_ #148 in 1978 called him _"Sith Lord"_ on the cover. Great clip! Again, _thanks!_ 🙋🏼♂️
I’m an original fan from the beginning and I knew Vader was a “Dark Lord Of The Sith” because of the trading cards from 1977. I didn’t know what that meant but it sounded terrifying.
I know! "Dark Lord of the Sith" was all over the place at the time. Trading cards, toys, magazines, articles in newspapers. I got a bit fed up of hearing the phrase. I was never a fan of the Spectre organisation in Bond (I prefer lone evil masterminds who are dispatched in inventive ways) so the Sith seemed to be being promoted as the SW equivalent.
I remember the first time I got to see Darth Vader. I was six years old when my Dad took me to see Star Wars shortly before Empire hit the theatre. From that point on Star Wars was always a strong bond between Dad and I. I didn't have to beg too much when we passed the toy store in the mall. Because he was having just as much fun as me.
Vader was known as “Dark Lord of the Sith” in the trading cards, Marvel comics, toys, pretty much everywhere but in the movie. We all knew him as a Sith Lord in 1977. We just didn’t exactly know what that meant. 👍🏻 MTFBWY
The 1978 and 1980 Topps trading card sets also referred to Vader as "the Dark Lord of the Sith", despite the term never being uttered in the finished films. It was probably included in the story bibles used by those involved with producing tie-in materials at the time.
The mismatch between the actual movies-as-released and the surrounding merch universe really bugged me as an obsessive-compulsive kid. You watch a movie three times over a year and a half (this was pre-VHS of course) and then you see a Bossk action figure and a lizard that stormtroopers ride and you're like, "Wait, those weren't in the movie--who/what are those--OH MY GOD DID I MISS A PART?" One gets the feeling there are minor characters that are created and filmed and show up for a frame or two just to justify an action figure. I'm surprised there isn't a Biggs action figure (maybe there is now.)
I remember the "Star Wars" novelization (long before "A New Hope" was a thing) mentioning Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith. I also remember hearing General Tagge's name pronounced like "tag". I used to have a book of science-fiction comics called Star Toons, published in 1979. There was a cartoon of a stormtrooper and Vader sitting on some crates. Vader had some chunks of meat on his lightsaber and he was saying to the stormtrooper, "It's a sith-kebab. Any other questions?"
95% certain I heard it pronounced "tag" in the Star Wars radio drama. I've never heard it pronounced with a soft g until recent TH-camrs. I'm gonna need an official source to prove otherwise, not just some randos pronouncing it that way.
That actor is THE first person to ever say Sith Lord, and it was sadly not mentioned in the original trilogy until the prequel. Not counting novels obviously.
I love these deleted scenes of star wars. Who literally would had known all these small details behind the scenes to stitch star wars story merely together. I love it!
It's so cool that something that was done 45 years ago still has the kind of interest this movie has. Also, how just small details were often overlooked originally.
The early-80s NPR radio version of Star Wars, A New Hope (13 eps) did include some of the dialog from these deleted scenes, and thus did identify Vader as Dark Lord of the Sith. I remember the word Sith baffling me a bit as a kid - I wondered if it was the name of a place or realm. Later, when its meaning became clear, I retroactively enjoyed having heard that word in the radio series.
The first time I was made aware of the Sith was reading The Empire Strikes Back comics. While they didn’t go into much detail at the time, it was apparent they were not just fallen Jedi, but held a completely different philosophy. So when Vader first walked down that ramp in Return of the Jedi, he was even more intimidating to me, as I knew what he allowed himself to become.
I don't remember the ESB comic--it must not have made a big impression on me; what I DID remember is that the first Star Wars comic about the first movie. For the powerhouse it eventually became, I always looked back on this comic and remembered how 'poor' the artwork was. No doubt, the creators of said comic probably thought it was going to be some low budget POS film with 'Corman' level effects etc...Little did they know they were catching lightning in as bottle.
@@nickmitsialis The original Star Wars. They started on it before the film was properly released, so had no idea what they had on their hands. It was such a hit that it saved Marvel. After they'd covered the original film, it made follow up comics very difficult to write, as they knew a sequel was likely but had no idea what would happen. Hence the characters wear the same clothes they had in the original film throughout, until the ESB comic was produced.
@@patriarch7237 Yes! While I never caught the clothing aspects of the post movie comics I do recall I was crazy for nearly anything tied in to SW, until ESB 'fixed in my mind' how things 'should be' and it immediately quashed any of the 'lesser' offerings; remember Admiral "Wermis", whom Vader was always grabbing by throat? Never happen once force choke became a 'thing'. Same with That dreadful 'Splinter in the Mind's Eye'. The thought Vader laughing like some mustache twirling villain (as he toyed with a light saber wielding Leia) or having his arm cut off by Luke was truly absurd in retrospect. But I do remember the TORTURE of waiting for the next movie to come out--Three years seemed like an eternity
Oh mentioning the SIth would a big deal, I remembering that Vader was just called a evil or dark Jedi as a kid. That and the Death Star was a bit of a gamble.
Wow - never knew this extra dialogue existed! Weird it was cut - I also didn’t know the EU background that Tagge survived. Much like the Jedi Council in the PT I always wanted to hear more from the imperials in that meeting. I’ve always found them fascinating lol Great videos!!
@@mcsmedia8081 Not exactly. They should know that’s their headcanon, but it also never was canon Disney purchase or not and I can prove it if you’d like to get specific. Those stories were not always compatible with George’s movies and vision because he wasn’t creatively involved. Even in the sense that was canon at all, George never considered them HIS Star Wars from his own mouth so it’s impossible to tell people “guess what? Here’s extra info about a thing George didn’t make so this must be true.” He let Lucasfilm hand out licenses, but it’s not the same
@@vintifada7115 If you are going to offer to prove someone's enjoyment of Star Wars and the EU as illegitimate, especially if you are going to attempt to disprove the legitimacy of the old EU by being an extreme purist with the definition of legitimate SW being what George Lucas himself wrote~ then you are trying much too hard and caring way, way too much. Let your enjoyment of Star Wars be yours, his be his, and mine be mine. We all love this work of art. I really enjoy vanilla Empire At War and Forces of Corruption~ but it is the moding community that really turned that game into something really really special. Let art be art and story telling be story telling. This is not the Council of Nicea and we are not deciding what is and is not biblical cannon for generations to come.
@@mcsmedia8081 It’s not about saying what George Lucas wrote is the only legitimate Star Wars, it’s not about saying don’t enjoy EU content, it’s not about saying you can’t have your headcanon. It’s about saying you don’t even know where George Lucas canon stops and your headcanon starts. You don’t even know you were never supposed to be able to make “I didn’t know” or “did you know” arguments based on admittedly GOOD stories from the EU. It’s another universe. The problem becomes important (bc who cares about Tagge) when the morality messages of one if not the most impactful stories of the 20th and early 21st centuries becomes changed and bastardized into something Lucas didn’t intend. People think he was trying to give one moral message when it was entirely another. All of these points build on another. It’s important to be clear don’t mix your story sources or you’ll change the meaning. And the best way to do that is to say look canon is canon bc that’s also the truth: EU is not canon despite how good and enjoyable it can be at times. And to have to do this is all bc I said “hey that Tagge survived is basically a theory” 🤔🤔🤔
“George Lucas always had a plan” >changed Leia from love interest to sister >changed force from invisible source of guidance to midichlorians >changed Yoda from being Obi Wan’s real master >changed Grievous multiple times
As amusing as this is, a plan in regards to stories doesn't necessarily mean having every single detail figured out and etched in stone. It simply means that the general vision and framework for the story is there. Many elements can be changed along the way. In this instance, its debunking the idea that the Sith were a prequel addition that had never been considered prior, when in reality it very much was planned.
Leia was going to be Luke's sister long before Return of the Jedi. Yoda said there is another and Leia since Luke's presence and heard his plea for help while hanging at Cloud City
Andor was literally one of the best things ever for star wars. I would put it just below episode 5, as the second best star wars content every created. The symbolism, everything in Andor is so well crafted
@@herroberbesserwisser7331 thanks, but given the damage done prior and the fact that the main protagonist fate is already known, it’s over for me… I no longer recognise Star Wars.
@bonchbonch yes, Luke because of his pilot skills was to use a New Y wing type bomber not a X wing, which were flown by senior pilots. The ILM crew couldn't get the Y wing set up in time so Lucas switched Luke to a X wing pilot.
I vividly remember there was a story book adoption of a new Hope when it was just simply called Star Wars, in the beginning of the book had the names and a brief summary of each character in the movie. I remember Darth Vader title was being “lord of the Sith“. Thank you for the video,You’ve certainly gained a new follower of this day
Zahn, in particular, used that term, I think, because "sith" hadn't been clearly defined and Lucasfilm wouldn't let him create a definition. So "dark Jedi' was a safer term
@@meganofsherwood3665 Vader was never described as a "Dark Jedi" in the Zahn Trilogy. Sith was even mentioned in the LucasArts "TIE Fighter" video game sequel to "X-Wing"...
@@TheJeremyHolloway correct, he never described Vader that way. He did, however, use the term for fallen Jedi & (I believe) other users of the dark side
The term "Sith" was used to refer to Darth Vader since way back in the 70s, even though it wasn't mentioned in the film, and not just in comics or novelizations.
Apparently "REVEALS Darth Vader’s Backstory" = uses the word "Sith." Which, in 1977, revealed nothing. Still a neat bit, but title is a little click-baity.
Not necessarily. In the books, they often referred to Vader as th “dark lord of the Sith” and while palps was a stronger practitioner of the dark side they never called palps a Sith. It’s possible the title was originally ment to refer to a species Vader had ruled or defeated. Some say the nohgri were originally planned to be called Sith.
Love this! This video takes me back to 1977, being 7-years old watching SW for the first time. From day one, Vader has been the most awesome villain in movie history.
2:37 "...Gov Tarkin's bid for recognition..." Interesting. That falls right in line with Rogue One showing Tarkin taking control of the Death Star from Orson Krennic.
"Dark Lord of the Sith" was mentioned in the old Star Wars Topps cards as well. Lucas probably cut the scene and never realized that was the only mention of it.
Thanks for this, always good to see Don Henderson (he was very well known here in the UK even then, always fun to watch). I seem to recall one of the books that came out before the PT was going to explain that the Sith were a race of creatures that worshipped Vader, but that Lucas made them change their name as he obviously had plans to explain it himself. It's amazing really how much of the lore and just names of things we were familiar with just aren't mentioned in the original trilogy.
I remember being 10 or 11 talking to my neighborhood best friend and we were like 'dude isnt it cool how in episode 4 for a second luke mentions the clone wars. i do in some way find it refreshing that lucas truly did have the whole story done from the beginning because he truly cared about and loved his star wars story.
Everything about the Clone Wars was a retcon. That was just a throwaway line Lucas tossed in because he wanted to have something cool, edgy, and science-y in the dialogue - at the time artificial cloning was purely a theoretical concept. He had no notion of what the Clone Wars were about or why they were called that, it just sounded cool. The same way he threw in "parsecs" without understanding that that was a measure of distance, not time (and yes, I know people have retconned that too, but when he wrote it Lucas though it was a unit of time that sounded cool and science-y.)
I'm old enough to be one of the very fortunate ones to have seen Star Wars when it first came out in 1977. Seeing it back then was epic and just mindblowing. You have to think that Star Wars wasn't yet a thing at this time. The film was playing and blowing everyone away to the point where you wanted to see it again and again. It was fresh and no one had ever seen anything like it before. It's become way too over the top now which is sad. The original trilogy will always be my favourite.
George Lucas was a master at repurposing previous ideas and throwaway lines of dialogue by turning them into something that made it seem like that was always how it was always supposed to go. I think in his notes from the mid 70s the concept is written down that tthe sith were an army of darkside users, basically the anti-jedi. And No the emperor was not a Sith in the original draft.
Yeah, and the Clone Wars was originally just a throwaway line because Lucas wanted to throw in some science-y jargon. He had no earthly idea what the Clone Wars were about or why they were called that when he wrote that script. Probably not until he started writing the prequel scripts two decades later.
This is excellent, but the books go even further. The User's Guide to the Death Star describes Tarkin's goals in greater detail, his theory that a Doctrine of Terror could maintain control in the Empire without the Senate. It also mentions that the Emperor is fully on board with this plan, which I saw as Sith's greatest weakness. They were always more interested in being evil, causing pain and fear, than being successful rulers or wise tacticians. You also see it in the Kenobi show, where the Inquisitors and Vader spend so much time and effort on personal interests that they fail consistently against the far more organized rebels. Basically, the Empire was doomed to fail because it just didn't have the priorities needed to survive.
Im glad they edited out the "sith." It makes more sense for basically no one except force users to know what sith are. Wish they had kept the bit about tarkins ego since thst does actually fit really nicely.
Ok the contrary he has very little planned. He had tons of ideas though. That he went back and forth between. And which he reused later. Basically and idea book full of names. Characters. Personas. Places. Things that could happen etc. And then basically he threw some of those together. Got budget to hire Ralph McQuarrie who drew up some concept pictures. George got inspired again by those. Went back to the script with designs and ideas by Ralph and new from him selves. Then just before the green light he finished throwing the script together. Filmed it. Put the movie together. Then after a test screening he and his wife needed to re edit it a lot. Change things last minute. And then get it out in last minute. So much for planning…
@@litjellyfish That was hardly a test screening. It was an unfinished cut of the film. No music, no special effects; George clearly wasn't going to put that version of it in theaters, no matter what his friends thought of it.
@@MrZackavelli sorry are you intending to replying to me? I mean what you tell is try but that has little to to do what I wrote about the whole process of how to movie came to be. This about the re-edit was just to further clarify that it was a lot of things that did not materialize up until very close to the movie’s release
Love your content, I’ve been a fan since I watched the first film and have read so much of the novelizations to the point where I had to correct the announcer at pub trivia that it was an Executor-class Super Star Destroyer (Star Dreadnought, thank you X-Wing series), point being your content has consistently provided new things about the SWU, keep it up and I want to win PLEASE!!!
Vader actually doesn't have any official rank in the Empire. He is just seen as the Emperor's enforcer and only has as much authority as the Emperor gives him depending on whatever task he is on at the moment.
@@gzaros Tarkin gets special treatment in the Empire beyond being a Grand Moff. The Emperor instructed Vader to obey Tarkin when it relates to the Death Star. This is why Vader is obeying him in A New Hope.
If you read the novel versions of the original trilogy back in the day (I read Empire Strikes Back), the Sith name was mentioned as was the name of the Emperor being Palpatine. My brother is still mad at me that I "spoiled" Palpatine as Emperor when Phantom Menace came out.
✋🛑 Full collection of rare Original Trilogy Deleted Scenes 👇👇
th-cam.com/play/PL1rcEagAFESktqME46HnStmQD9poZb1Il.html
I never realize that the word “Sith” was referenced in the original trilogy. On merchandise from back in the day, Vader was referred to as a “Dark Lord of the Sith”. Like I said, I never noticed that not being mentioned in the OG films; I just assumed it was in there somewhere,
I remember when I was a kid, I would watch the trilogy over and over again, trying to learn as much as I could about the Force and what it truly meant. Each time I watched it with fresh eyes, challenging my presumptions. I'd look in dictionaries and encyclopedias to research religions and terms, trying to figure out where George Lucas got his inspiration from.
By the time the Jedi were fully explained in the books, I was already a master.
It’s crazy that the word Sith isn’t mentioned in any of the original trilogy movies! I’d love to wink a custom lightsaber from you!
Superrrrr Dope!
nice
I remember the toys at the time having Vader's title as "Dark Lord of the Sith", but we didn't know what that meant, it just sounded kinda cool...It took us awhile, but we finally got the full story!
Sith meant, "The Since"; meaning, a race and religion from a long ago era. Since Dark Side Force-users were last known to have existed over 1000 years ago, anything related to them was always seen as something from the distance of time and place.
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567, the word "sith" actually used to mean "since" in English, as did "sin". Geoffrey Chaucer uses these words in the Canterburry Tales.
@@davidwarren7279 I'm willing to bet, George Lucas was inspired by Old English, and used it for The Sith.
I don't think that's true and I'm from 1975
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 "Sith" does show up in Old English (Shakespeare also uses it once), but it's equally probable that Lucas got the word from an alien insect that appears in John Carter of Mars (which also has the word "Banths")...which was much closer to his sources!
I agree that ”Sith” should have been a part of the story all along , but who could honestly have anticipated such a huge success?
Vader was often referred to as a/the Dark Lord Of The Sith in publicity for the first movie. It was never elaborated on.
It didn't seem to arouse much curiosity among fans. As far as titles went, people were far more intrigued by what a Moff was and what in particular made one Grand.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 Correct. "Sith" was used in the story books of the late 70s/early 80s.
Not even George was able to predict the success of Star Wars. That was why he had Alan Dean Foster write Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which likely would have been the sequel had Star Wars not become the huge hit it was.
Granted, I am sure he had some inkling of what he had on his hands, considering his focus on the merchandising rights, but still not on the scale it became.
@@samanthaadams619 Yeah, it was odd that there were references of Darth Vader being a Sith Lord in the storybook from the first film back in 77/78 when I got the book. I was just under 10 and had no real info on the Sith other than the storybook and a few other brief mentions
Honestly, I think the original films are better for not mentioning sith and just going with the assumption Vader is a fallen Jedi
I actually knew Vader was a Sith before ever seeing A New Hope. It’s how he is described on the Burger Chef promo poster, which I had even before seeing the film. I remember asking my Mom what a Sith was. As you might imagine, my Mom hadn’t a clue. In 1977 we had to try to figure out a lot of backstory on our own.
Was it Burger Chef or Burger King? I remember Burger King posters and Glasses.
This literally happened to me too. My mom said she assumed it was an organization that Vader led.
@@7thwheelIn my area it was Burger Chef for the original Star Wars, for Empire and Jedi Burger King had the glasses.
oh yeah! they had kids means with toys and posters! I think they had toys out before Kenner did!
When I was in fourth grade in 1988, I asked a class mate:"what's inside the Storm troopers?" His answer:"Meat..." Well I thought that sounded legit..
As I recall, as of the original movie's scripting, "The Emperor" was more a politician, who used Vader and his power as a tool for his own ends, than being a Sith Lord in his own right... but when Lucas expanded the plot, which also included making Vader Luke's father, he also made the Emperor into a supreme paragon of the Dark Side...
Which was a good change for the Emperor...I mean why would Vader be a number 2 to someone if he could just kill him and take his place?
@@daggerhell99 probably because the empire wouldn't have worked like that in the original script. In real life if a general murdered the president he wouldn't become the new president
From what I can remember about the original movies the emperor didn’t really become the “dark paragon of the dark side” until return of the jedi.. which in empire vader wanted Luke to join him in taking down the emperor, but in rotj he basically said the emperor is too powerful
In the preface to the novel of the first movie, the Emperor is a weak individual, hiding away and being manipulated by the governors.
Sorry OP but all of that is incorrect. The Lucas written novelization of A New Hope included details about Palpatine, and making Vader Luke's father was the idea of the director of Empire Strikes Back, not Lucas.
I used to mock Cassio Tagge, but now I realize. He was one of the most dedicated, capable and level headed imperial officers out there. I am truly humbled by his integrity and courage in that corrupt, hostile office environment.
Surprised he didn't report lord Vader to Human resources. That was clearly inappropriate office behaviour
@@Trebor74 it was known as just “resources” as the empire was pro human and didn’t employ aliens…..Thrawn aside.
@@kevincassidy2008 humanoid,not necessarily human 😂
@@Trebor74 I think he actually does on one of the novels lol
@@Trebor74 in the cannon comics he becomes Vader’s boss after Death Star 1 suffers the wrath of the war criminal luke skywalker.
0:05 Imagine Darth Vader ringing every doorbell in a solar system
“Hello we’re Sith missionaries from the Church of Darth Plagueis the Wise and we’d like to…” SLAM.
@@jemhoare2105 Vader would just hold the door open with the Force
This has always been one of Star Wars's greatest strengths and weakness. There is so much material outside of the movies that you can deep dive into whatever through the comics and books. But on the other hand, it's really annoying that they have to constantly patch the plots holes with them.
And since the bonus material has so many different authors, they often create new plot holes that have to be patched up again.
Regardless, at the end of the day it creates a lot of open ends to add history and more stories for us to dive into on our exploration of a galaxy far far away
Remember, they also cut 30min.
Cheers 🍻
Not so much plug plot whoies.rereales. the movies as intended.
I had the Lucas-written novel that I bought in 78 and it mentions Palpatine, the Sith, etc. Lucas was a great filmmaker but an even greater creator.
For instance, the novel has Lucas' name on it but was ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster... But all the novel's material is from Lucas, of course.
A great *storyteller* . 😉
@@DaPhunkPhenomena I read many of Alan Dean Foster's sci fi adaptions over the years as well as his original novels. Splinter of the Minds Eye, The Black Hole, Krull, The Last Starfighter and the his Spellsinger series were my favourites. In no particular order. Many of his other works have also entertained me. A very accomplished, but possibly underrated author.
He was also a shit writer who was saved by his editors and the studio telling him "no." Once Lucas got the power to do anything he wanted, we got "I hate sand."
Lucas was great at coming up with imaginative ideas, I won't dispute that. But it was the OTHER people he worked with (even his own wife, who edited the hell out of the original film's script) who actually had the talent to bring those ideas to life.
@@Ambaryerno People are back again with the "Star Wars was saved in the editing" narrative... 🤣🤦♀
Found my copy of the 1976 novel last night and it mentions Vader as a Sith Lord almost immediately when describing him. What is interesting is when it desribes Vader's general appearance, the wording implies *all* sith lords looked/dressed the same as Vader. As in he was but one of many who wandered about wearing black and a face mask.
And from then on in the Legends spinoff stories that kinda continued to be the case! The Kotor games had a BUNCH of sith who wore facemasks, and Ive seen no shortage of sith lords wearing masks in other star wars media. Not all, mind you, but most of the named important Sith lords
If I remember right, there were still shot from the movie in the center of the novel and they have one with the caption “Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith.” It’s been over 40 years but I remember that for some reason.
@@stuartbagley2586 No not in the 1976 edition I have. They do have short character summaries in the photo section, but with Vader's no mention made there of Sith. They used the headshot still of him from the deleted scene with Bast - which was one of the more common headshot they used for him back then.
@@jasemalvis2140 As I recall, Revan and Malak did wear masks not unlike Vader's - and in the Disney sequels, Kylo Ren's mask is almost an exact replica of Revan's.
It took a long time for the Expanded Universe to decide exactly what the Sith looked like. Originally there was the Noghri species, which was introduced as a race of Imperial bodyguards in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy in 1991. Supposedly, the vaguely death's-head facial features of the Noghri were supposed to have inspired the look of Darth Vader's mask, until it was revealed that Vader already had his mask when he first encountered the Noghri. Then, several years later, it was decided that the Sith were a group of Dark Side cultists of many different species (mostly humans) who had appropriated the culture of an alien species from Korriban also called the Sith. I remember that a making-of book about THE PHANTOM MENACE showed that many Sith tattooed their faces, and that Darth Maul took this to the extreme.
Maybe it’s referring to the white skin, notice how him and palpatine have it but we didn’t know why in the OT maybe that was originally caused by the dark side in early drafts, and mauls early concept was similar to mother talzen and dooku was similar to ventress and both of them have pale white skin.
Technically the word sith wasn't said on screen until episode 1 but Darth Vader was always referred to, even so in writing, as dark lord of the sith. And not just in books but on his action figures and other star wars media
Yup, Topps Green Border Star Wars trading card # 217 is titled "The Dark Lord of the Sith." I think that was the first time I had heard the term.
@@billgrindler4653 Same here. That's where I remember seeing the title of Sith first being used.
I first saw it on, of all things, a commemorative Empire Strikes Back glass Burger King were selling, showing Vader and Boba Fett together. A short bio on the back of the glass referred to Vader as the Lord of the Sith. I still have that glass today.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks might be worth some money now haha
Bruv thts wht he says in the video lol
I find it also interesting to hear General Tagge criticizing the enormous budget used by the Death Star project. Throughout the series and novels, we've seen the Navy criticize the misuse of budget that should instead be used on star destroyers (Catalyst and Thrawn: Treason novels) or better and more durable fighters (Rebels). It's interesting to see that the Imperial Army is also feeling the pressure, and that Lucas was already envisioning the internal disagreement around the Death Star within the Imperial forces from the very beginning (1977).
The original trilogy is a master class on world building, the movie just drops you into this universe that feels alive
@@joaomotta7791 even if there were no sequels and SW77 was a one off it still builds a fantastic world.
@@scottianson5133 There's enough in the dialogue to suggest the Empire would crumble without the Death Star. "Fear will keep the systems in line. Fear of this battlestation".
The impression I got way back then was that Luke and his pals would be hyping off around the galaxy getting into all sorts of post-empire adventures. Probably crossing paths with Darth Vader on a regular basis ( "You killed my father", "You bleey up my planet", "You planted a homing beacon in my ship" ) in a series of fun space romps.
By the way, thanks for the SW77 moniker, I much prefer it to "A New Hope" or "The Original movie".
Not really, the fear will keep them in line is after they remove the senate. Without the detahstar they could either just have more str destroyers to bombard people to death or they could have the senate.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Well, that was before the prequels and sequels, when I thought the series was going to be about the fantastic adventures of a farm boy turned galactic warrior, rather than having the focus slowly changed until the 9 films actually end up being all about Palpatine and his attempts to produce a side-kick/heir.
It still amazes me that over 40 years later and Star Wars is still the biggest franchise in history. So much depth, so much lore, and so much passion. Thank you George Lucas for everything.
Wizard.
Then, he procede to sell his son (Star Wars) to a minor abuser (disney).
And then Disney just ruined it
@@BaneTheManI just ignore the Disney content. Anything produced after 2014 just kills my interest in Star Wars.
Is it? Pokémon’s the highest grossing franchise in history.
@@SonicTheHedgehog-mh6uw Ask any random person what they know about Star Wars. Then ask them what they know about Pokémon. There’s your answer. (Hint: most people will know more about Star Wars than Pokémon)
I remember the original Kenner action figures of Darth Vader describing him as Lord of the Sith. So the word was out there, but not widely known. Anyone who read the novelization of A New Hope would also have seen General Tagge's line about Vader being a Sith lord. I remember thinking the word Sith felt very sinister and evil. And this was before Return of the Jedi came out.
Now I can't help but wonder if the word was ever used in the Marvel Star Wars comics (a collection still needing completion)
"Darth" means DAR--k..lord of--the. si...TH"
@@jackprescott9652 no wayyyyyyy !!!! Holy st
I read the novel a few times growing up, and honestly forgot I had for a while. I started remembering scenes that weren't actually in the movie xD
Yes, marvel comics was sued because of the graphic novel. Which came out 2 weeks before Empire strike back. And had the entire novel of storytelling with out deleted pictures
Years before the prequels came out, there was a rumor going around that Lucas’ original outline for the first film was going to be the story of the rise fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker all in one film, but that Lucas decided it was too much for one film and he decided to break it up into at least six films, but possibly as many as nine movies with Luke taking Anakin’s place in parts 7-9. Hence why toys released years before the prequels came with backstories on the back of the box that said things like “Obi Wan and Vader had an legendary duel on a volcanic planet that left Vader crippled and in need of a robotic suit”
Lucas had a whole heap of ideas originally. Luke was to be the new Flash Gordon. Lucas had tried and failed to secure the rights to the old 1930s serial and decided to make his own version. As the original novel states, the whole rescue the princess and blow up the baddies was "From the adventures of Luke Skywalker." Luke was also female at one point, as can be clearly seen in one of Ralph McQuarrie's concept paintings. The impression from the novelisation is that The Empire will be mortally wounded by the destruction of the Death Star, and even more so by the death of Tarkin. It's never stated as such, but Tarkin seems to have been manipulating the doddery old Emperor to get as much power fir himself.
It was also mentioned in the movie novelization while Vader remember his fight with Obi-Wan while Luke is taking his helmet off...
I remember reading that, in some childrens Scholastic, or Highlights magazine, and this was in 1980. But even then, it went into detail of 9 movies, how it was lined out. But in that magazine, that was the first time I heard of "Sith Lord".
I heard there were as many as 12 screenplays. So...the possibility of 12 movies by Lucas.
Sometime from the release of *STAR WARS* in 1977 to the release of *THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK* in 1980, George Lucas commented publicly he had a story outline that would cover nine separate movies.
The first two movies in '77 and '80, plus *RETURN OF THE JEDI* in 1983, would be the middle three of the nine.
The opening crawl of the a new hope originally had the phrase "dark lords of the sith" in it as well. I think it remained for the first couple drafts before it finally got cut out. The crawl made it sound like there were a bunch of sith that were the enforcers for the emperor (it didn't mention the emperor being one) and that Vader was the biggest and baddest of them all.
And now we have the Inquisitors
just realized "Dark Lords of the Sith" would be a stellar heavy rock/metal band name.
I wish they added a director cut with all of these deleted scenes. I can't get enough of everything Vader!
There was a VHS release of the original trilogy in the 90s (hard to find now) that had a lot of behind the scenes interviews with Lucas. He even described Anakin’s battle with Obiwan from Mustafar (years before ROTS filmed) and an ancient battle between Mandalore and the Jedi. For some reason I misunderstood it at the time and thought that Vader hired the Mandalorian army to take out most of the Jedi.
What’s weird is that the story has evolved so that the Clones took out most of the Jedi, and the Clones were replicated from a Mandalorian foundling. And the armor, while not Beskar, has similarities. So it makes me wonder if the original plan did have Mandalore vs Jedi at the end of the Clone Wars, but then he changed it yo Clones vs Jedi. Who knows? And unfortunately… i can’t find that footage now.
The Special Edition is a director's cut. Not much of the old footage was added in, though, except for the scene between Han and Jabba.
@@PreppingWithSarge Check Star Wars the Annotated Screenplays. Many of the things from the prequels already existed in Lucas' mind prior to 1977. He had Mace Windu, dianoga, Journal of the Whills, Starkiller, Utaupu, and Mustafar in early versions of the scripts and the backstory/lore. Jedi were originally called the Jedi Bendu before he shortened it to just Jedi.
Including with his dialog in his original Bristolian accent?
Cutting that line changes the context of Tagge's diatribe. Not only are the Imperials vulnerable to Rebel attack, the officers themselves are vulnerable to losing their positions or dying at Vader's hands or because of his perceived meddling.
I was 6 in 1977 and my parents got me out of school early to go see it. It was the star destroyer in the opening scene - not Vader's entrance later - that has always stuck with me. The sense of _size_ Lucas was able to convey with models.
Your parents are truly gods....
And in Spaceballs we see an analogous menacingly huge starship and then a bumper sticker on back that reads,
“WE BRAKE FOR NOBODY!”
Never realized they never said sith in the original trilogy. That’s actually mind blowing 🤯
It actually annoys me a bit that many of the details included in screenplays are scrapped before the filming even begins, and continue to exist - if at all - only in the films' promotional material. I realize, of course, that one of the main rules of screenwriting - and filmmaking - is "Show, don't tell." But audiences enjoy having an understanding of the strange new stuff they're seeing. What's interesting is that when a fictional story is heavily inspired by real - or at least realistic - events, the movie will indeed go into detail. THE GODFATHER, APOCALYPSE NOW, and GANGS OF NEW YORK are three films I can think of in which additional details are communicated to us either by a narrator or by a character speaking the movie's dialogue. It's supposedly a screenwriting no-no, but it can work if it's presented in a plausible manner.
Same with Pandawan.
Love how he was so mysterious when he was first introduced. I wish I could have experienced seeing A New Hope in theaters in 1977!!
You would've seen the original cut which most people haven't seen. The first edits were 3 months after the film came out!
I think I saw it re-released in theaters sometime between 1995-1997. It was definitely before Phantom Menace was released.
I think i was only about 5 or 6, at the time. The only memory I have was the Death Star battle.
@@fieryphoenix586 You saw the Special Edition in 1997
@Wild Blunt Hickok
I saw the original cut. I do have foggy memories of some of this. But I was around 6 years old so..... :)
Saw it in the theaters in ‘77- it was a whole new experience to someone who grew up walking ti the neighborhood theater every Sat-the attention to details-the look of grimy looking ships-so called “used future”- the sounds seeming to come from all around you-it was definitely different!
Vader was referred to as “The Dark Lord of the Sith” from the beginning. It’s mentioned in the novelization that was published before the film’s release and Vader was described as Dark Lord of the Sith in the Scolastic published Star Wars Storybook that coincided with the movie’s release.
yeah I have a hard cover star wars book from late 76
yep! Bubblegum cards were great at this too.
I had that storybook! Also, I think the Burger King Star Wars glasses that came out alongside Empire had him referred to as Dark Lord of the Sith or something very similar. It was out there as long as I can remember. (Also in the 1990's Evan Dorkin's Milk and Cheese comic has them don Darth Vader helmets and refer to themselves as Dark Lords of the Sith as they wreak mayhem on their surroundings.)
I saw Empire Strikes Back for the first time on its official release in 1980. Coming out of the cinema, my Dad bought me a copy of a fold out poster of Darth Vader, with lots of written backstory. "Dark Lord of the Sith" was very prominent in the wording and stood out for being sinister but unknown. I remember asking my Dad what "Sith" meant but he didn't know.
Cool to know the “Sith” were always part of Lucas’ idea for Star Wars, kind of intrigues me since he decided not to use it, which imo is a missed opportunity. It doesn’t give anything away about his origins, at least more than what Obi-Wan says to Luke, and it adds more to Vader’s mysterious origins, and the title “Sith Lord” is just badass and brimming with evil. Wasted opportunity there.
Well, at one point, the Clone Wars was supposed to have been the great wars fought between the Jedi Knights and the Mandalorians. Boba Fett having been one of the few remaining Mandalorian survivors. That would've been far better than what George ultimately brought to us via the Prequels.
There's is comic with the original story for the first movie. It's really cool and I think there are some assasins called sith or something.
Even in the theatrical cuts, they managed to convey that Tagge was the smartest (or at least most pragmatic) man at the table and Jerjerod's loyalty clearly lies with the Emperor and not Vader.
Tagge is an underrated character. Unlike most Imperial officers, he is smart and cautious and even willing to question Imperial tactics and priorities but not in a manner to get himself Force-choked. The only one who comes close to his sensibility is Adm. Piett, though he's more of a "if I keep my head down, don't make wave and do my job, I might keep living" type.
The greatest stories are not told with every detail on show, they are revealed to you piece by piece, every step drawing you into the world that has been created for you. When you do unravel the mystery it opens your eyes, a wonderful feeling. This is why the original trilogy is superb.
Storytelling is an art and George Lucas got it right in the final cut of Star Wars.
I agree it would have really added lots of credibility to the whole story arc if this reference was included. Also it does definitely sound like vadar’s first name is darth when obi wan calls him it 🤣
"Only a master of eveel, DARTH" sounded so weird. I don't know any other instance of it being used that way.
It is, indeed, a bit strange such a simple line was omitted, as to the reference to the Sith. Maybe it was just to not have people scratching their heads, when it was never fully explained, but I like a bit of mystery on that level. Leaves me wanting to find out more about the universe.
That is because, at the time, it WAS his first name. "Darth" as a Sith title did not exist until "Darth Maul" and "Darth Sidious." Back when Vader and Anakin were separate characters, the Sith's actual birth name was "Darth Vader." First name Darth, last name Vader.
At 13 in 1977 I remember the Dark Lord of the Sith.
@@thewanderer7307 It was obscure and it was there in 1977. It was more like saying Tuesday instead of Wednesday back then.
It's beautiful to see how much thought is put into this even if its cut out
I do remember as a kid, I too thought his first name was Darth instead of Darth being a title for Sith Lords. It would be cool if they released an extended edition with some of this gems of deleted scenes to add just a smidgen more depth for the characters and story.
Originally, it WAS his first name. Darth was not a title until 1999.
I also thought this and thought it was just discontinuity upon rewatching it as an adult.
Obi-Wan even calls him, 'Darth' when they duel. Sounds kind of silly, now that all the baddies are named 'Darth xx' for some reason.
Also, why have two titles? Everybody already calls him, 'Lord Vader'..
Darth and his sister Ella, the Vaders. Who is more well known.
@@elfthreefiveseven1297 Good luck with this one. I haven't been able to generate a single lol with it for years.
I don't know how I missed the fact that "sith" is never said in the original trilogy. It is interesting how they had that subplot with the general calling out how poor a plan the death star was but I see why they removed it, it might have forced them to bring the character back or create more of a backstory for him.
I do remember some of the Topps trading cards mentioning Vader as a Dark Lord of the Sith.
@@nowthatsjustducky The phrase appeared in magazine articles as well. It just seemed like some sinister underworld club, like the Masons or the Dr Who Appreciation Society.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 I like to think that someone thought it was a cool word, and made a note to further develop it into something big later... a preplanned retcon or something like that.
Another reason why they might've cut it is that the Death Star might've seemed less foreboding and the Rebel's victory ring hollower if the film depicted an Imp officer openly calling the whole idea of it stupid.
@@jeffbenton6183 I think you're spot on, there. The big re-edit involved jettisoning anything that didn't drive the main plot. There was a lot of dialogue filmed that, while not being exposition as such, went into more detail about the politics of the Empire. Most famously in the completely deleted scene where Luke talks to Biggs at the station.
I waited 40+ years to see that scene, and when I did it was a mega disappointment.
I have the original 1978 hardcover storybook and was floored to see “Sith” mentioned as I read it to my daughter. I always thought George coined that term for the Prequels 🤯
while the sith weren't mentioned on film, right from the start we knew he was a sith lord from all the written stuff and merchandise. it was mentioned in the original novelization from '76.
But how many people really knew about Star Wars lore in 1976? It was out there but the vast majority of people didn't know anything about the Star Wars saga until they set foot in the theater in 1977.
Yeah, but then we knew everything
@@DixiePokerAce the book was released just six months before the movie, and unless i'm mistaken sold out before the movie premiered. i could be entirely wrong, but by 1979 i think the novelization was in it's 30th printing. i'm certain marvel's comics mention the sith, and of course those were huge sellers. imo, anything involving pre-ESB counts as 'from the start.'
you're right, few people outside the culture knew about SW before the movie, but before ESB was released we had *all* heard 'dark lord of the sith' many times. i'd thought it was used on one of the trading cards, but i can't find any examples of that so i'm thinking that may be a false memory.
@@williamward9755 we knew everything we needed to, the rest is just a money grab, lol.
I remember "Sith" from the book, but I'm not sure if it ever registered with me that the word never was used in the original trilogy. There's also the emperor's name. Palpatine was in the prologue of the novelisation, but never in any of the movies, until Episode 1.
I feel like Alderaan watching this footage, completely blown away. I've seen a lot of deleted scenes from the OT over years including the Moff Jerjerrod scene you mentioned and the Luke Skywalker lightsabre construction scene from RotJ, but this is amazing. I can't believe nearly 45 years since it's release that there is still unseen footage of this quality and concern key characters still emerging. I also never realised that the Sith weren't actually mentioned by name in the OT (good spot there), and these extra bits of dialogue would have been great had they been left in. Thanks for posting, that made my day.
It’s still too soon to make jokes about Alderaan , RIP
@@trustyourplug
"Impressive...MOST impressive."
I am the 70th like, muahahahahahahaha
The Sith title is used in the 1976 novelisation of Star Wars, credited to Lucas but ghost written by Alan Dean Foster. So the fact Vader was a 'Dark Lord of the Sith' was surprisingly well known amongst Star Wars fandom, since the novel was a best seller. Admittedly more people saw the actual film itself, but the term 'Sith' was out there.
The word "Sith" may not have appeared in the original trilogy, but it was around way before any comics or books. I remember magazine articles and trading cards which were out during the original trilogy referring to Darth Vader as "Lord of the Sith".
You should know that the Star Wars comics launched in 1977.
There was a hard-bound visual book released in 1977 or 78 that had photos of the main characters with a small bio underneath each photo. Darth Vader was mentioned in this book as "A Sith Lord".
I had this as well and can confirm…
I seem to recall that most of the merchandising and magazine features, etc had some reference to him being _a_ or _the_ Dark Lord of the Sith.
I also read that Darth had proven more popular than anyone expected and would feature more in future movies. It made him sound like a Moriarty to Luke's Sherlock, rather than the central figure of what would be six movies. Whether that was a publicity person's flight of fancy or one of George's passing ideas, who knows.
Kinda cool how this deleted footage lines up perfectly with modern characterization that Tarkin has in Rebels and Rogue one - a man who wants recognition, and who wants to take over the illogical super weapon, for his own ego. And his use of the weapon, ultimately makes the rebellion more popular, thus his actions escalate the conflict.
I've seen this scene before. I wish it had been included in the movie. I love the fact that Tagge was unimpressed by, and suspect of, both Vader and Tarkin...and, that's what kept him alive. He wasn't on the Death Star, because he went to look for The Rebels on Dantooine. Actually, since 1977, he was known, in all of the other SW merchandise, as: Darth Vader, Lord Of The Sith. I hope he gets referred to that way in Obi-Wan Kenobi, by The Imperials and The Inquisitorius.
I honestly love the deleted scenes from each film. It really shows where the story may have gone differently. Great video.
RIP Darth. May the Force be with you.... always
Hearing "Sith Lord" in the original 1977 movie shook me not gonna lie.
Despite all the extra content on DVD releases and all the books, comics, TV shows and games the Star Wars movie are so mysterious. We're constantly finding out new things about them.
They never said "Sith" in the 1977 movie. What are you talking about?????
This definitely would have added more context. I vaguely remember "Dark lord of the Sith" being used on some promotional material - action figure or poster book.
Yes the studio souvenir pamphlet mentioned Dark Lord of the Sith back in 1977. It was a reference we Boomers know well.
@@Smenkhaare Not just you Boomers, but us Gen-Xers as well. Or did you forget about us.... AGAIN?
;)
@@IggyStardust1967 Sorry...Boomer Limitations. :D
I was thinking the same thing - that description was definitely on something I had back in the days of the original release. I was thinking the cardboard for the action figure (Darth was my 2nd after Chewie), or I had a giant sized Marvel comic adaptation that went about 1/3 of the way through the movie - I may have seen it in there. Somehow not recalling the exact context of first seeing a phrase 45 years ago - I must be slipping!
@@daviderickson8699 It was all in the brief descriptions in the guide you bought. Remember the souvenir guides for big movies?
The conference room scene on the Death Star is performed in its entirety in the NPR radio dramatization of Star Wars by Brian Daley. Aired in 1980 and co-produced by KUSC-FM Los Angeles. Also, “Tagge” is pronounced like “tag.”
It is awesome that these deleted scenes come out eventually. I saw the original in 77. I Love that it is still relevant and fun to keep exploring.
I can watch old and deleted scenes for ages! Thanks! Back in the 70's, I remember _Vader_ being identified as _The Lord of the Sith_ in magazines. Even _Famous Monsters_ #148 in 1978 called him _"Sith Lord"_ on the cover.
Great clip! Again, _thanks!_ 🙋🏼♂️
I’m an original fan from the beginning and I knew Vader was a “Dark Lord Of The Sith” because of the trading cards from 1977. I didn’t know what that meant but it sounded terrifying.
I know! "Dark Lord of the Sith" was all over the place at the time. Trading cards, toys, magazines, articles in newspapers. I got a bit fed up of hearing the phrase. I was never a fan of the Spectre organisation in Bond (I prefer lone evil masterminds who are dispatched in inventive ways) so the Sith seemed to be being promoted as the SW equivalent.
@@chrisparkes2179 does that make him a Sithy?
The world should start planning now for the 50th anniversary of SW :)
Hopefully we’re all here for that one. Check back on this comment if you can, see if it ages well. 🤘☝️👍
@@darthwizzywizard
WizzyWizard......
Soundz like a mix of STAR WARS & DOUBLE DUTCH BUS.
Wasn't it last year that was celebrated?
I remember the first time I got to see Darth Vader. I was six years old when my Dad took me to see Star Wars shortly before Empire hit the theatre. From that point on Star Wars was always a strong bond between Dad and I. I didn't have to beg too much when we passed the toy store in the mall. Because he was having just as much fun as me.
I appreciate the prequels more since I see my kids having fun watching them. But even my 8 and 10 year old don't like TLJ and RoS.
Vader was known as “Dark Lord of the Sith” in the trading cards, Marvel comics, toys, pretty much everywhere but in the movie. We all knew him as a Sith Lord in 1977. We just didn’t exactly know what that meant. 👍🏻 MTFBWY
I was a kid in 1977 and Darth Vader was the coolest thing I had ever seen when he showed up
The 1978 and 1980 Topps trading card sets also referred to Vader as "the Dark Lord of the Sith", despite the term never being uttered in the finished films. It was probably included in the story bibles used by those involved with producing tie-in materials at the time.
The mismatch between the actual movies-as-released and the surrounding merch universe really bugged me as an obsessive-compulsive kid. You watch a movie three times over a year and a half (this was pre-VHS of course) and then you see a Bossk action figure and a lizard that stormtroopers ride and you're like, "Wait, those weren't in the movie--who/what are those--OH MY GOD DID I MISS A PART?" One gets the feeling there are minor characters that are created and filmed and show up for a frame or two just to justify an action figure. I'm surprised there isn't a Biggs action figure (maybe there is now.)
The deleted scenes start @ 01:16
I remember the "Star Wars" novelization (long before "A New Hope" was a thing) mentioning Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith. I also remember hearing General Tagge's name pronounced like "tag". I used to have a book of science-fiction comics called Star Toons, published in 1979. There was a cartoon of a stormtrooper and Vader sitting on some crates. Vader had some chunks of meat on his lightsaber and he was saying to the stormtrooper, "It's a sith-kebab. Any other questions?"
I had that book too! lol. But Tagge's name has been pronounced "Ta-jee" for as long as I can remember.
The action figure, collector cards, and other things noted him as the Dark Lord of the Sith.
95% certain I heard it pronounced "tag" in the Star Wars radio drama. I've never heard it pronounced with a soft g until recent TH-camrs. I'm gonna need an official source to prove otherwise, not just some randos pronouncing it that way.
Found it! 3: 33 :16 of this video.
th-cam.com/video/28adtieXMBk/w-d-xo.html
It IS pronounced “tag” 100%
That actor is THE first person to ever say Sith Lord, and it was sadly not mentioned in the original trilogy until the prequel. Not counting novels obviously.
It's so cute when people believe Lucas had this all planned when he made Star Wars in the 70's.
That deleted scene added back to the New Hope would really add so much to the back story and tie in the prequels.
Sith wasn't in the movies, but the action figure of Vader, and in the picture books he was introduced as a dark lord of the SIth.
I love these deleted scenes of star wars. Who literally would had known all these small details behind the scenes to stitch star wars story merely together. I love it!
those lines should have been re-inserted into the 1997 special editions, instead of all that CGI crapola. Another Lucas fail.
Darth Vader has always been my favorite part of Star Wars. Loved learning the whole story about him over the years.
It's so cool that something that was done 45 years ago still has the kind of interest this movie has. Also, how just small details were often overlooked originally.
no they were'nt. scroll above.
It's always awesome to go through some of the deleted scenes to get a feel for other things they were considering
The early-80s NPR radio version of Star Wars, A New Hope (13 eps) did include some of the dialog from these deleted scenes, and thus did identify Vader as Dark Lord of the Sith. I remember the word Sith baffling me a bit as a kid - I wondered if it was the name of a place or realm. Later, when its meaning became clear, I retroactively enjoyed having heard that word in the radio series.
The first time I was made aware of the Sith was reading The Empire Strikes Back comics. While they didn’t go into much detail at the time, it was apparent they were not just fallen Jedi, but held a completely different philosophy. So when Vader first walked down that ramp in Return of the Jedi, he was even more intimidating to me, as I knew what he allowed himself to become.
I don't remember the ESB comic--it must not have made a big impression on me; what I DID remember is that the first Star Wars comic about the first movie. For the powerhouse it eventually became, I always looked back on this comic and remembered how 'poor' the artwork was. No doubt, the creators of said comic probably thought it was going to be some low budget POS film with 'Corman' level effects etc...Little did they know they were catching lightning in as bottle.
@@nickmitsialis It pretty much saved Marvel, which was starting to go bankrupt at the time.
@@patriarch7237 The ESB comic or SW? I imagine once the first film hit the big screen, the comics probably sold like crazy
@@nickmitsialis The original Star Wars. They started on it before the film was properly released, so had no idea what they had on their hands. It was such a hit that it saved Marvel. After they'd covered the original film, it made follow up comics very difficult to write, as they knew a sequel was likely but had no idea what would happen. Hence the characters wear the same clothes they had in the original film throughout, until the ESB comic was produced.
@@patriarch7237 Yes! While I never caught the clothing aspects of the post movie comics I do recall I was crazy for nearly anything tied in to SW, until ESB 'fixed in my mind' how things 'should be' and it immediately quashed any of the 'lesser' offerings; remember Admiral "Wermis", whom Vader was always grabbing by throat? Never happen once force choke became a 'thing'. Same with That dreadful 'Splinter in the Mind's Eye'. The thought Vader laughing like some mustache twirling villain (as he toyed with a light saber wielding Leia) or having his arm cut off by Luke was truly absurd in retrospect.
But I do remember the TORTURE of waiting for the next movie to come out--Three years seemed like an eternity
The Mention of the last of the senate being dissolved always intrigued me. It said so much. Just like the opening shot, about the Empire.
Oh mentioning the SIth would a big deal, I remembering that Vader was just called a evil or dark Jedi as a kid. That and the Death Star was a bit of a gamble.
It’s always nice to hear more background info on this beloved story.
1:57 Maul pulls up like a boss.
Wow - never knew this extra dialogue existed! Weird it was cut - I also didn’t know the EU background that Tagge survived. Much like the Jedi Council in the PT I always wanted to hear more from the imperials in that meeting. I’ve always found them fascinating lol
Great videos!!
Extra dialogue and EU aren’t canon so consider them theories
@@vintifada7115 Some people prefer to maintain the old legend's EU as their cannon or chosen story line~ and that is completely fine.
@@mcsmedia8081
Not exactly. They should know that’s their headcanon, but it also never was canon Disney purchase or not and I can prove it if you’d like to get specific. Those stories were not always compatible with George’s movies and vision because he wasn’t creatively involved. Even in the sense that was canon at all, George never considered them HIS Star Wars from his own mouth so it’s impossible to tell people “guess what? Here’s extra info about a thing George didn’t make so this must be true.” He let Lucasfilm hand out licenses, but it’s not the same
@@vintifada7115 If you are going to offer to prove someone's enjoyment of Star Wars and the EU as illegitimate, especially if you are going to attempt to disprove the legitimacy of the old EU by being an extreme purist with the definition of legitimate SW being what George Lucas himself wrote~ then you are trying much too hard and caring way, way too much. Let your enjoyment of Star Wars be yours, his be his, and mine be mine. We all love this work of art. I really enjoy vanilla Empire At War and Forces of Corruption~ but it is the moding community that really turned that game into something really really special. Let art be art and story telling be story telling. This is not the Council of Nicea and we are not deciding what is and is not biblical cannon for generations to come.
@@mcsmedia8081
It’s not about saying what George Lucas wrote is the only legitimate Star Wars, it’s not about saying don’t enjoy EU content, it’s not about saying you can’t have your headcanon. It’s about saying you don’t even know where George Lucas canon stops and your headcanon starts. You don’t even know you were never supposed to be able to make “I didn’t know” or “did you know” arguments based on admittedly GOOD stories from the EU. It’s another universe. The problem becomes important (bc who cares about Tagge) when the morality messages of one if not the most impactful stories of the 20th and early 21st centuries becomes changed and bastardized into something Lucas didn’t intend. People think he was trying to give one moral message when it was entirely another. All of these points build on another. It’s important to be clear don’t mix your story sources or you’ll change the meaning. And the best way to do that is to say look canon is canon bc that’s also the truth: EU is not canon despite how good and enjoyable it can be at times. And to have to do this is all bc I said “hey that Tagge survived is basically a theory” 🤔🤔🤔
“George Lucas always had a plan”
>changed Leia from love interest to sister
>changed force from invisible source of guidance to midichlorians
>changed Yoda from being Obi Wan’s real master
>changed Grievous multiple times
>ruined the original trilogy with CGI
@@paddington1670 sad that cgi ruins a movie for u
As amusing as this is, a plan in regards to stories doesn't necessarily mean having every single detail figured out and etched in stone. It simply means that the general vision and framework for the story is there. Many elements can be changed along the way. In this instance, its debunking the idea that the Sith were a prequel addition that had never been considered prior, when in reality it very much was planned.
That’s apart of story righting, you would never know these things if he didn’t tell it.
Leia was going to be Luke's sister long before Return of the Jedi. Yoda said there is another and Leia since Luke's presence and heard his plea for help while hanging at Cloud City
I totally thought George didn't come up with the concept of Sith until the prequels.
This out-take pulled me back for a moment…. But only a moment! RIP Star Wars 1977 to 2005.
I would say 1977-2012 since we were still getting good content from George and the EU.
Long may the Disney era reign, a mary sue in every sequel!
Explain to me how Rey is a Mary Sue. Not being rude, I just want to watch you flounder to back your claim considering how little basis it has.
Andor was literally one of the best things ever for star wars. I would put it just below episode 5, as the second best star wars content every created. The symbolism, everything in Andor is so well crafted
@@herroberbesserwisser7331 thanks, but given the damage done prior and the fact that the main protagonist fate is already known, it’s over for me… I no longer recognise Star Wars.
He had a collection of ideas to draw from, but his plans for the story were always changing, even between films.
In Disney +'s short series Light & Magic, about ILM, Lucas; says he only used around 25% of his plans, ideas, concepts in 1977- A New Hope.
@@DavidLLambertmobile A lot of that stuff was constantly changing.
@bonchbonch yes, Luke because of his pilot skills was to use a New Y wing type bomber not a X wing, which were flown by senior pilots. The ILM crew couldn't get the Y wing set up in time so Lucas switched Luke to a X wing pilot.
I vividly remember there was a story book adoption of a new Hope when it was just simply called Star Wars, in the beginning of the book had the names and a brief summary of each character in the movie. I remember Darth Vader title was being “lord of the Sith“. Thank you for the video,You’ve certainly gained a new follower of this day
It would have been great to hear ‘Sith Lord’ sooner, I remember in the early 90’s and hearing the term ‘Dark Jedi’ far more often.
Zahn, in particular, used that term, I think, because "sith" hadn't been clearly defined and Lucasfilm wouldn't let him create a definition. So "dark Jedi' was a safer term
@@meganofsherwood3665 Vader was never described as a "Dark Jedi" in the Zahn Trilogy. Sith was even mentioned in the LucasArts "TIE Fighter" video game sequel to "X-Wing"...
@@TheJeremyHolloway correct, he never described Vader that way. He did, however, use the term for fallen Jedi & (I believe) other users of the dark side
It’s hard figuring out why the cut certain things. I definitely believe Vader’s mystery added to his character.
The term "Sith" was used to refer to Darth Vader since way back in the 70s, even though it wasn't mentioned in the film, and not just in comics or novelizations.
0:16 I had the exact same helmet and colour switching lightsaber when I was like 6 or 7 or so
Apparently "REVEALS Darth Vader’s Backstory" = uses the word "Sith."
Which, in 1977, revealed nothing.
Still a neat bit, but title is a little click-baity.
Topps Trading card set for Return of the Jedi (released in 1983) had a card for Darth Vader referring to him as a "Dark Lord of the Sith".
Not necessarily. In the books, they often referred to Vader as th “dark lord of the Sith” and while palps was a stronger practitioner of the dark side they never called palps a Sith. It’s possible the title was originally ment to refer to a species Vader had ruled or defeated. Some say the nohgri were originally planned to be called Sith.
Love this! This video takes me back to 1977, being 7-years old watching SW for the first time. From day one, Vader has been the most awesome villain in movie history.
Full transparency: I want the lightsaber in that give-away.....SO bad. 😊
Vader was ranked #3 by the AFI, behind Hannibal Lecter and Norman Bates, on the list of best movie villains (out of 100).
I remember the first time I saw Star Wars. Waiting in line to get a seat in a mega theater. It was an amazing movie and still is.
Damn, I wish that wasn't cut from the original
2:37 "...Gov Tarkin's bid for recognition..." Interesting. That falls right in line with Rogue One showing Tarkin taking control of the Death Star from Orson Krennic.
"Dark Lord of the Sith" was mentioned in the old Star Wars Topps cards as well. Lucas probably cut the scene and never realized that was the only mention of it.
Thanks for this, always good to see Don Henderson (he was very well known here in the UK even then, always fun to watch). I seem to recall one of the books that came out before the PT was going to explain that the Sith were a race of creatures that worshipped Vader, but that Lucas made them change their name as he obviously had plans to explain it himself. It's amazing really how much of the lore and just names of things we were familiar with just aren't mentioned in the original trilogy.
I remember being 10 or 11 talking to my neighborhood best friend and we were like 'dude isnt it cool how in episode 4 for a second luke mentions the clone wars. i do in some way find it refreshing that lucas truly did have the whole story done from the beginning because he truly cared about and loved his star wars story.
Leia mentioned them in the hologram recording for Obi-Wan as well. Even called him "General Kenobi."
Everything about the Clone Wars was a retcon. That was just a throwaway line Lucas tossed in because he wanted to have something cool, edgy, and science-y in the dialogue - at the time artificial cloning was purely a theoretical concept. He had no notion of what the Clone Wars were about or why they were called that, it just sounded cool. The same way he threw in "parsecs" without understanding that that was a measure of distance, not time (and yes, I know people have retconned that too, but when he wrote it Lucas though it was a unit of time that sounded cool and science-y.)
I'm old enough to be one of the very fortunate ones to have seen Star Wars when it first came out in 1977. Seeing it back then was epic and just mindblowing. You have to think that Star Wars wasn't yet a thing at this time. The film was playing and blowing everyone away to the point where you wanted to see it again and again. It was fresh and no one had ever seen anything like it before. It's become way too over the top now which is sad. The original trilogy will always be my favourite.
George Lucas was a master at repurposing previous ideas and throwaway lines of dialogue by turning them into something that made it seem like that was always how it was always supposed to go. I think in his notes from the mid 70s the concept is written down that tthe sith were an army of darkside users, basically the anti-jedi. And No the emperor was not a Sith in the original draft.
Yeah, and the Clone Wars was originally just a throwaway line because Lucas wanted to throw in some science-y jargon. He had no earthly idea what the Clone Wars were about or why they were called that when he wrote that script. Probably not until he started writing the prequel scripts two decades later.
@@brucetucker4847 most likely.
And now so much of all those old jargon from the script drafts are used by Disney. The irony. The irony :)
This is excellent, but the books go even further. The User's Guide to the Death Star describes Tarkin's goals in greater detail, his theory that a Doctrine of Terror could maintain control in the Empire without the Senate. It also mentions that the Emperor is fully on board with this plan, which I saw as Sith's greatest weakness. They were always more interested in being evil, causing pain and fear, than being successful rulers or wise tacticians. You also see it in the Kenobi show, where the Inquisitors and Vader spend so much time and effort on personal interests that they fail consistently against the far more organized rebels. Basically, the Empire was doomed to fail because it just didn't have the priorities needed to survive.
Im glad they edited out the "sith." It makes more sense for basically no one except force users to know what sith are. Wish they had kept the bit about tarkins ego since thst does actually fit really nicely.
George was such a genius
He had so much planned beforehand than most people recognize
Ok the contrary he has very little planned. He had tons of ideas though. That he went back and forth between. And which he reused later.
Basically and idea book full of names. Characters. Personas. Places. Things that could happen etc.
And then basically he threw some of those together. Got budget to hire Ralph McQuarrie who drew up some concept pictures. George got inspired again by those. Went back to the script with designs and ideas by Ralph and new from him selves. Then just before the green light he finished throwing the script together. Filmed it. Put the movie together. Then after a test screening he and his wife needed to re edit it a lot. Change things last minute. And then get it out in last minute.
So much for planning…
@BK Beatty no he had not
@@litjellyfish That was hardly a test screening. It was an unfinished cut of the film. No music, no special effects; George clearly wasn't going to put that version of it in theaters, no matter what his friends thought of it.
@@MrZackavelli sorry are you intending to replying to me? I mean what you tell is try but that has little to to do what I wrote about the whole process of how to movie came to be.
This about the re-edit was just to further clarify that it was a lot of things that did not materialize up until very close to the movie’s release
It would be cool to see this scene restored in its entirety! Granted, I understand why parts were cut.
The only targets Stormtroopers don't hit are ones protected by plot armor.
Love your content, I’ve been a fan since I watched the first film and have read so much of the novelizations to the point where I had to correct the announcer at pub trivia that it was an Executor-class Super Star Destroyer (Star Dreadnought, thank you X-Wing series), point being your content has consistently provided new things about the SWU, keep it up and I want to win PLEASE!!!
I'd love to see some of these scenes reintegrated into the films, they (some) really add more context and don't break lore.
guys playing with toy lightsabers are like rhythmic gymnastics in the Olympics to me.
Sith happens.
Ain't that some sith
Just don't sith your pants
Vader actually doesn't have any official rank in the Empire. He is just seen as the Emperor's enforcer and only has as much authority as the Emperor gives him depending on whatever task he is on at the moment.
Agreed. Initially, it always appeared to me that Grand Moff Tarkin was second in command to the Emperor.
He is like a Grand Duke to the Emperor.
@@gzaros Tarkin gets special treatment in the Empire beyond being a Grand Moff. The Emperor instructed Vader to obey Tarkin when it relates to the Death Star. This is why Vader is obeying him in A New Hope.
The screenplay for ANH from the middle of 1975 onward describes Vader as being the Emperor's right hand.
@@MiguelCruz-oz7km That's a role, not a rank.
If you read the novel versions of the original trilogy back in the day (I read Empire Strikes Back), the Sith name was mentioned as was the name of the Emperor being Palpatine. My brother is still mad at me that I "spoiled" Palpatine as Emperor when Phantom Menace came out.