N was such a good foil, and a great embodiment of Xenoblade 3 as a whole for good or bad. Both are good enough if you are experiencing them at a base level without a lot of thought but when you stop and examine and put later revealed context into place there is so much depth.
It's ironic that the destructive power of Malos becomes a key part of preserving Aionios and its corrupt systems, Z really hit the jackpot when he was able to get N on his side! The past Noahs used his power to fittingly rebel against Moebius, but they just weren't "lucky" enough to find the balance in their lives that allowed them to strive for the destruction of the world (Malos), so that something new can be born and life can move on (Meyneth/Fiora/Pneuma), which I guess is why he was able to be swayed by the false ideal of simply living with M for all eternity; he wasn't fighting for pure and incorruptible reasons.
I personally disagree with copy pasting of Malos' intentions (of destroying the world) in XC2 into XC3. The dynamic is actually completely new and oppositional here. Moebius is ironically one of the healthier manifestations of Logos. Z actually preserves existence with minimal risk. As the lore goes in XC2, Logos is just an information processing unit. Similar to how Malos was directly shaped by Amalthus' worldview in XC2, it is the same with N. It is wrong (in my eyes) to assume Malos = Logos = Destruction of the world = Bad guy. The manifestation of Malos and ID in XC3 is already directly imbued into the fabric of Aionios. You can see the selfishness and tyrannical control Moebius exerts on the people and the world. What sort of world would Amalthus want to create in XC2 after destroying Alrest? A world just like Aionios where humanity is exploited and gets what they "deserve". Logos has an oppositional dynamic in XC3 and is closer to the selfish tyrannical desires of Zanza in XC1. (But still moebius actually has a side where you can argue for them which I'll explain next week) I really like how Takahashi isnt rehashing the exact same theme over and over again. He uses similar themes but is not afraid to explore its shortcoming and benefits of each side in a completely different context. In fact Alpha in Future redeemed is this idea perfectly expressed. Alpha embodies the dangerous sides of BOTH logos and pneuma in XC2. Logos as in desiring to eradicate old mortals while Pneuma in desiring "only" to move forward with the city people. With misguided intentions that this new world of their making won't result in selfishness of old life. Alpha is the embodiment of how both Logos and Pneuma can be misapplied and interpreted. As Klaus in XC2 is no longer there as Alvis' conscience, it is fitting why Alpha went rogue and severed his connection to Pneuma and Logos altogether. The healthier manifestations we see in Ouroborous and Moebius which is precisely why both of them fight against Alpha in future redeemed. My next video will go really deep into some of these ideas. I hope you look forward to it Solibrea
@@Ontos99 Yes I see, your interpretation makes a lot of sense here too. The Logos core wouldn't have become the Malos that we know if he wasn't awoken by Amalthus, even if we don't know exactly how similar or different he would've been if he'd been Rex's Blade, for instance. His Aionios version can stand for something else as well because Noah is figuratively his "Driver". I do think XB3 shows that destruction isn't inherently a bad thing.
@@Solibrae Thats a great way to put it. Xc3 really does show how "preservation" isnt always a good thing and by that logic "destruction" isnt always bad. I really like Xc3's framing and Alpha makes the contrast even more stark. Im so happy with Future redeemed overall and regard it to be my favourite DLC ever made personally
Hoo boy. Some elements of my own upcoming video kind of overlap. I did, however, come to a different ultimate conclusion than you on what 'they' represent. Good job here all around.
This is beautiful man, Xenoblade 3 just keeps getting better and better the more we dig deeper into its thematics and philosophy. I nearly teared up again at those pivotal cutscenes, and your montage with Engage The Enemy was brilliant. Loved this analysis, and can't wait for the next!
Coming up next week ;)) Thank you for the kind words in fact I actually teared up while editing the engage the enemy montage as well. Especially right when M dies and N starts crying. Im glad I made the decision to include that incredible song. Thanks a lot for watching! Some of the themes like Sigmund Freud's explanations and how both Id and Super ego needing to mature along with how Pneuma Logos and Ontos maps out into the trinity in this context are very crucial stuff that I dont see people discuss. That was the primary motivation of this work. Next week's episode will delve into ideas I cant wait to get into about the lore. Have a great week Uppernimbus ;)
@@Ontos99 You did a fantastic job, and you're right that people haven't really tackled this subject before, but this video nails it on the head. So keen for next week, hope you have a great rest of the week as well!
Though Noah doesn't know that N is lying about Mio never coming back. For everyone else, they all disappear, but with Noah and Mio they continually keep coming back after Homecoming, Noah and the player just dont know that yet.
N isnt lying about Mio not coming back. Mio wouldnt came back if M didnt swap their consciousness. Mio's body so to speak is lost out of circulation which housed M's consciousness at the time. What Z said applies only to N and M. Their lives persist even beyond homecoming but for Mio and Noah, the rules apply. Just like other soldiers, homecoming is the path to freedom from Moebius
However that wouldnt entirely rule out M's repentance recreating both Noah and Mio back into the system even if that was the case. But for all intents and purposes, that version of Mio would be lost for this Noah
@@Ontos99 Every Mio is a new Mio so of course that incarnation would be lost. That shouldn't even be a thing that needs to be brought up because that's not how their reincarnation works. Im talking about the core "Mio", the spirit itself being reborn every time, not M specifically. No, Z isnt only talking about N and M there. He's clearly talking about Noah and Mio in general and their continuous reincarnations because we just got to see a montage of all of them dying again and again and Z saying to each of them "how many times has it been now?" "yield, did i not tell you?". He's referring to all of them, all Noahs and Mios he's faced over the centuries. Noah and Mio (N and M) had at least three other incarnations before them that died. Z is saying he's seen Noah and Mio constantly come back and that intrigues him. He wouldn't be talking about Mio (the M incarnation) specifically because the moment he's talking about them "persisting beyond homecoming" she's currently dead. He also wouldn't be talking about Noah (the N incarnation) specifically because he also reached homecoming and died and the only reason why he's alive is because Z resurrected him because he wanted to make him a deal. To become moebius. And this Mio (M) is flat out dead because Z didnt resurrect her like he resurrected N. He knew N could be manipulated by using M. That specific incarnation didnt "persist beyond homecoming". She reached it and died. (Then was later resurrected when she was turned into Moebius.) No, every Mio "persisted beyond homecoming" because they all reached it, died, and returned to the cycle regardless. Mio's spirit was reborn even though the past Mio, M, died when reaching homecoming. Noah's spirit was reborn even though the past Noah, N, reached homecoming and then became Moebius. Becoming moebius would also take him out of the cycle. In both of those instances one would not return to the cycle, but they both do. The reason why they both keep coming back after multiple homecomings and becoming moebius is because of emotion. Just like with how Moebius came into being, collective uncertainty and fear of the people. Takahashi specifically states in the artbook that every Noah comes back because of the previous Noah's regret of losing Mio. Regret keeps him in the cycle. However, he doesn't specify why Mio keeps coming back, but judging from what he said about Noah, it can be implied that they both work similarly, due to a strong emotion keeping them in the cycle. As far as N is aware, Mio would in fact be reborn again, so he isn't lying because that's what he believes. He's seen their collective past memories of always coming back after homecomings and Z telling him directly that they always do. He knows that that's something that happens with them so in this instance he's lying to Noah to be cruel and give him more anguish.
@@jelyse14 The insight here is 'M' committing suicide by inhabiting the body of 'Mio' who has left the circulation via homecoming. I have already said Mio and Noah will comeback but this specific version will not. Meaning 'M's soul' has now died alongside 'Mio's body' which is why N was so sad and angry for leaving him behind. Remember Mio now houses 'M's body' meaning the 'true M's soul' can never be made a moebius again even if somehow it got 'reintegrated' back into the cycle. Explaining exactly why N felt so defeated and betrayed.
![Elden Ring's Metaphysics | Duality & Nonduality [Lore Analysis]](/img/n.gif)
N was such a good foil, and a great embodiment of Xenoblade 3 as a whole for good or bad. Both are good enough if you are experiencing them at a base level without a lot of thought but when you stop and examine and put later revealed context into place there is so much depth.
Absolutely! N is a very complex villian and I hope this video makes it justice
@@Ontos99Yeah, honestly he is one of my favorite video game villains of all time.
It's ironic that the destructive power of Malos becomes a key part of preserving Aionios and its corrupt systems, Z really hit the jackpot when he was able to get N on his side! The past Noahs used his power to fittingly rebel against Moebius, but they just weren't "lucky" enough to find the balance in their lives that allowed them to strive for the destruction of the world (Malos), so that something new can be born and life can move on (Meyneth/Fiora/Pneuma), which I guess is why he was able to be swayed by the false ideal of simply living with M for all eternity; he wasn't fighting for pure and incorruptible reasons.
I personally disagree with copy pasting of Malos' intentions (of destroying the world) in XC2 into XC3. The dynamic is actually completely new and oppositional here.
Moebius is ironically one of the healthier manifestations of Logos. Z actually preserves existence with minimal risk.
As the lore goes in XC2, Logos is just an information processing unit. Similar to how Malos was directly shaped by Amalthus' worldview in XC2, it is the same with N.
It is wrong (in my eyes) to assume Malos = Logos = Destruction of the world = Bad guy.
The manifestation of Malos and ID in XC3 is already directly imbued into the fabric of Aionios.
You can see the selfishness and tyrannical control Moebius exerts on the people and the world.
What sort of world would Amalthus want to create in XC2 after destroying Alrest?
A world just like Aionios where humanity is exploited and gets what they "deserve".
Logos has an oppositional dynamic in XC3 and is closer to the selfish tyrannical desires of Zanza in XC1. (But still moebius actually has a side where you can argue for them which I'll explain next week)
I really like how Takahashi isnt rehashing the exact same theme over and over again. He uses similar themes but is not afraid to explore its shortcoming and benefits of each side in a completely different context.
In fact Alpha in Future redeemed is this idea perfectly expressed. Alpha embodies the dangerous sides of BOTH logos and pneuma in XC2.
Logos as in desiring to eradicate old mortals while Pneuma in desiring "only" to move forward with the city people. With misguided intentions that this new world of their making won't result in selfishness of old life.
Alpha is the embodiment of how both Logos and Pneuma can be misapplied and interpreted. As Klaus in XC2 is no longer there as Alvis' conscience, it is fitting why Alpha went rogue and severed his connection to Pneuma and Logos altogether. The healthier manifestations we see in Ouroborous and Moebius which is precisely why both of them fight against Alpha in future redeemed.
My next video will go really deep into some of these ideas. I hope you look forward to it Solibrea
@@Ontos99 Yes I see, your interpretation makes a lot of sense here too. The Logos core wouldn't have become the Malos that we know if he wasn't awoken by Amalthus, even if we don't know exactly how similar or different he would've been if he'd been Rex's Blade, for instance. His Aionios version can stand for something else as well because Noah is figuratively his "Driver".
I do think XB3 shows that destruction isn't inherently a bad thing.
@@Solibrae Thats a great way to put it. Xc3 really does show how "preservation" isnt always a good thing and by that logic "destruction" isnt always bad.
I really like Xc3's framing and Alpha makes the contrast even more stark. Im so happy with Future redeemed overall and regard it to be my favourite DLC ever made personally
Hoo boy. Some elements of my own upcoming video kind of overlap. I did, however, come to a different ultimate conclusion than you on what 'they' represent. Good job here all around.
Looking forward to that video ;)) Glad you enjoyed it
'they' as in Noah and Mio or N and M?
@@Ontos99 How Logos and Pneuma play into the background of the narrative.
This is beautiful man, Xenoblade 3 just keeps getting better and better the more we dig deeper into its thematics and philosophy. I nearly teared up again at those pivotal cutscenes, and your montage with Engage The Enemy was brilliant. Loved this analysis, and can't wait for the next!
Coming up next week ;)) Thank you for the kind words in fact I actually teared up while editing the engage the enemy montage as well. Especially right when M dies and N starts crying. Im glad I made the decision to include that incredible song. Thanks a lot for watching!
Some of the themes like Sigmund Freud's explanations and how both Id and Super ego needing to mature along with how Pneuma Logos and Ontos maps out into the trinity in this context are very crucial stuff that I dont see people discuss.
That was the primary motivation of this work. Next week's episode will delve into ideas I cant wait to get into about the lore. Have a great week Uppernimbus ;)
@@Ontos99 You did a fantastic job, and you're right that people haven't really tackled this subject before, but this video nails it on the head. So keen for next week, hope you have a great rest of the week as well!
Excellent video.
Happy to hear that. Next week, a XC3 lore video is coming up. You dont want to miss it!
Though Noah doesn't know that N is lying about Mio never coming back. For everyone else, they all disappear, but with Noah and Mio they continually keep coming back after Homecoming, Noah and the player just dont know that yet.
N isnt lying about Mio not coming back. Mio wouldnt came back if M didnt swap their consciousness. Mio's body so to speak is lost out of circulation which housed M's consciousness at the time.
What Z said applies only to N and M. Their lives persist even beyond homecoming but for Mio and Noah, the rules apply. Just like other soldiers, homecoming is the path to freedom from Moebius
However that wouldnt entirely rule out M's repentance recreating both Noah and Mio back into the system even if that was the case. But for all intents and purposes, that version of Mio would be lost for this Noah
@@Ontos99 Every Mio is a new Mio so of course that incarnation would be lost. That shouldn't even be a thing that needs to be brought up because that's not how their reincarnation works. Im talking about the core "Mio", the spirit itself being reborn every time, not M specifically.
No, Z isnt only talking about N and M there. He's clearly talking about Noah and Mio in general and their continuous reincarnations because we just got to see a montage of all of them dying again and again and Z saying to each of them "how many times has it been now?" "yield, did i not tell you?". He's referring to all of them, all Noahs and Mios he's faced over the centuries.
Noah and Mio (N and M) had at least three other incarnations before them that died. Z is saying he's seen Noah and Mio constantly come back and that intrigues him.
He wouldn't be talking about Mio (the M incarnation) specifically because the moment he's talking about them "persisting beyond homecoming" she's currently dead. He also wouldn't be talking about Noah (the N incarnation) specifically because he also reached homecoming and died and the only reason why he's alive is because Z resurrected him because he wanted to make him a deal. To become moebius.
And this Mio (M) is flat out dead because Z didnt resurrect her like he resurrected N. He knew N could be manipulated by using M.
That specific incarnation didnt "persist beyond homecoming". She reached it and died. (Then was later resurrected when she was turned into Moebius.)
No, every Mio "persisted beyond homecoming" because they all reached it, died, and returned to the cycle regardless.
Mio's spirit was reborn even though the past Mio, M, died when reaching homecoming. Noah's spirit was reborn even though the past Noah, N, reached homecoming and then became Moebius. Becoming moebius would also take him out of the cycle.
In both of those instances one would not return to the cycle, but they both do.
The reason why they both keep coming back after multiple homecomings and becoming moebius is because of emotion.
Just like with how Moebius came into being, collective uncertainty and fear of the people.
Takahashi specifically states in the artbook that every Noah comes back because of the previous Noah's regret of losing Mio. Regret keeps him in the cycle.
However, he doesn't specify why Mio keeps coming back, but judging from what he said about Noah, it can be implied that they both work similarly, due to a strong emotion keeping them in the cycle.
As far as N is aware, Mio would in fact be reborn again, so he isn't lying because that's what he believes. He's seen their collective past memories of always coming back after homecomings and Z telling him directly that they always do.
He knows that that's something that happens with them so in this instance he's lying to Noah to be cruel and give him more anguish.
@@jelyse14 The insight here is 'M' committing suicide by inhabiting the body of 'Mio' who has left the circulation via homecoming. I have already said Mio and Noah will comeback but this specific version will not. Meaning 'M's soul' has now died alongside 'Mio's body' which is why N was so sad and angry for leaving him behind.
Remember Mio now houses 'M's body' meaning the 'true M's soul' can never be made a moebius again even if somehow it got 'reintegrated' back into the cycle. Explaining exactly why N felt so defeated and betrayed.