The Inkpulp Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2023
- THE INKPULP PODCAST: Episode 161 with @EricCanete , @inkpulp Shawn Crystal, and @matteoscalera !
We discuss Mark Millar's idea son saving the American Comic Book Industry. Is it a good idea?
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Eric’s Links…
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Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I do that the form factor and size of comics are inferior to manga-- even though I prefer the western style. I think monthly roll outs is a silly rule or custom we still abide by, whereas the page count of manga makes way more sense. The feel and weight and size of a manga is a better form factor than a thin, floppy, overly color printed, 32 page book-- with freakin ads in it. There are so many caveats when trying to buy the monthly issues that I personally gave up mid college. I'd rather wait for a better, more pristine, ad free, book (with hopefully way better paper quality) than going to the store monthly for shotty printed pamphlets; that the store may or may not have ordered enough of.
I’m a trade waiter too. Floppies are a crazy model that makes no sense anymore
great discussion on comic industry. I do think ease of access is really slowly dropping the comic industry. I hope Eric can get Arc Athena on the same shelf with My Hero Academia in the future.
That would be amazing!
The problem with trimming staff at a Marvel or DC is that those people are already being overworked. Marvel has been burning through editors at an unprecedented rate because they've got 15 people doing the work of 25 (not actual numbers, but you get the idea). The real issue is corporate expectations and corporate mentality.
Re: the manga format, US publishers have tried to replicate that format, but what they don't get is all those titles Eric mentioned first appear in anthology magazines like Shonen Jump, where you get a few pages of 15 different strips in a huge magazine sized collection which are made as cheaply as possible and meant to be discarded once read (which is more akin to how American comics were made in the Golden Age). The popular ones get collected in the 120-page or so books everyone thinks of. The ones of those which become classics and a "forever shelf life" then get reprinted in a slightly smaller format so they're easier to store. And the ones with more highly regarded artwork might get oversized collections closer to the size of Western comics. In other words, they don't print in just one format, they have different formats with different purposes.
The only Part of the comic industry that is in decline is really digital sales. Since amazon bought comixology in order to torpedo it and boost graphic novel sales. The floppy market is stagnant. But graphic novel sales are at highest levels since the 90’s comic boom. Think The ways we’ve consumed content has changed people want condensed stories in one book rather then month to month storytelling
The American comic book market is dead in the grave. Manga is thriving
@@fun-with-purpose1436 tell that to graphic novel sales. Shit half the zoomer books that do terribly in floppies like squirrel girl and mrs Marvel are juggernauts in the Graphic novel market.
I saw a The Last Ronin The Lost Years at Walmart with a Walmart Exclusive cover. So few US comics on the shelf there that it is wild. It is where those black and white Marvel Essential comics should be right now. Missed opportunities abound with a shelf that includes Spy x Family, My Hero Academia, Berserk, etc.
Last Ronin is frustrating because the original miniseries was so well crafted and sold a ton. Then they released the HC and that sold out on Amazon and at Walmart. However, the follow up I felt was significantly weaker then the original mini and really came across as something that was rushed into production to capitalize on the original series’ success.
Manga is also MUCH cheaper to produce, they cost less to make and cost less on the shelves. Disney/ Marvel are much less likely to mass produce books because they don’t want that inventory to sit on store shelf’s, while it costs almost nothing to churn out the Worst manga you’ve ever seen and let them sit on bookshelves.
This contributes to the idea that Manga is just that much more popular because it just takes up soooo much inventory space.
Of course I drop a comment saying the EXACT thing Matteo says before I get to the part of the video where everyone discusses it.... Doofus.
That said, manga has a lot going for it that comics in the west don't. As mentioned, there's a much wider range of stories being told, on top of the fact that the stories are typically told by the same creative team or simply the same cartoonist for the full run. Very rarely years of retcon on top of retcon to sandwich in the story the new creative team wants to tell. And book stores and much friendlier environments in general than the average LCS.
Lol! You are correct on all fronts!
I agree with the speculation on the reason for so many titles and variant covers. It seems to me the number of readers / buyers is so low companies have to milk the same buyers for all of the $. I’m always fascinated but crowd funded books and like to look at # of backers compared to money raised. It’s a lot of times less than 100 people funding a book.
Thats a good point.
I love the dynamic of this show. And it's because you three have a dynamic that compliments each other. Shawn doesn't seem to get that, though because he ocassionally tries to adopt Eric's villain role. There were a couple of awkward moments in this episode because of that. When Eric is mean, we accept it, but when Shawn is mean, it feels harsh like when the lovable character on a show starts hurting people. Eric's great in his role as a contemplative and thoughtful villain. Matteo is a dumb fratboy always laughing at fart jokes but is inexplicably a prodigy in his field, a generational talent. Shawn is a lovable stoner, who's take on things often has the depth of someone who is incredibly high and who's enthusiam is often undercut by his depressive rants about 'the kids these days'. I hope going forward we can see more lovable Shawn and less villain Shawn.
lol. ok hahahahah
holy shit, Scalera and Canete have a podcast?! I admire the hell out of you two. i'm in
request! could you guys have Bachalo on?
Shawn too 😇
@@inkpulp yes, sorry Shawn!
Manga and anime are taking over in the states. But I do agree they need to trim the fat and produce less, but higher quality all around. We don’t need 5 great books out of 40 for both DC and Marvel. But anime and manga are the newer generation and western comics are for the older gen which is dying off. Western Comics need to be put out in like manga in book volumes at books stores, not singles issue only in comic shops. Manga is easily accessible at all Barnes and nobles and a lot to choose. Look at the western comic section barely anything. The older gen goes to comic shops not newer gen. Plus manga is geared towards younger gen and anime is so huge it makes then go want to buy the manga. Western comics need copy the way manga and anime work.
Theres a lot of truth here!
Looking forward to a live episode because I was screaming "ADAM WARREN" at my screen 😆
HAHAHAHAAHAH!
Been wondering this same question about the appeal of Manga over modern comics and I agree it’s all those factors compounded. I think the anime’s being faithful to the sources and look is another. The format is inviting to new readers. Lots of pages. Easy to travel with. It’s easy to collect the other volumes if you dig it. I think maybe the floppy is just to delicate even if someone is new and not a collector they may be put of by how fragile the format is. They will get overwhelmed if they do even go to a comicshop. Probably not find all the issues they want from a run or get confused. Shops understandable don’t ever stock for a new reader to discover a book. Even big events they won’t bother to order more than for the customer pull list. It’s everything I think.
In an old Comicbook Journal interview Frank Miller made the point how everything done in the Comicbook industry is done simply because that’s the way it’s always been done. To the point where comics are still cut to fit the spinner racks they are no longer sold on.
Thats some great insight! Thank you!
I shit you not guys after Mateo had the Bible people come to his door I had an ad less than a minute later for bible content!!!!😂😂😂😂
AHAHAHAHAHAHA THEY ARE LISTENING!
Well, in fact, it's quite simple, just read comics from the rest of the world, and you'll see the industry is not dying, not dying at all. The America mainstream superheroes comics are an ill-fated formula, and once you get out of it, you're instantly aware that's alright in the industry. And don't get me wrong, I love American comics! I love Hellboy, Ed Brubaker stuff and all, but there is literally a whole world out of it and I assure you, you gonna find a ton of good stuff here and there.
All very true!
Had to a double take, looking forward to the McFarlane episode!
We cant believe it! but it happened and its coming!
I was waiting for 5 minutes for them to say they were joking and then I realized oh wait I think they’re serious 😂
When will the Audio versions of the podcasts be available? I'd love to be able to listen to it on other podcasts apps if possible.
We are now on Spotify, but not the back catalgoue. Thats coming
Good show, Very intersting industry conversation.
Cant wait to ask you guys some dumb questions live!!
Its gonna be so fun! Hope to see you there!
Where is the RSS feed for the audio only version?
@ 16:09 Eric killed all arguments against
I definitely agree that there issues that need to be addressed in the comics distribution model. In regard to Mark idea, though, a problem that would probably arise is a lack of new and diverse voices. With the comics industry, historically being majority white men, if you stick with those who have proven to be successful, you will end up with those same voices. So something else would need to be put in place to find new talent unique voices.
Guys, I could write a BOOK on why manga is "cooler" than comics, but I'll have to settle for a stupid long comment lol
First off, it's like Matteo said in that there's a much wider variety of stories, but you can wax on that for a mile (including a much better understanding of the demographics). If we learned anything from Bakuman, manga first and foremost focuses on being INTERESTING. Doesn't matter if the art is great or if all the characters have triple H breasts (though that can carry it for a while) the story needs to grab readers attention every issue, and every page counts.
That can translate to more focus on page layout, (actual)relatable characters, stories where when an arc ends you feel simultaneously fulfilled and wanting more. It helps that editors work one-on-one(or two, in the rare-ish case where there's a separate writer and artist) on every issue and every page to work on these things.
Another thing (again, just read the first dozen or so chapters of Bakuman) is that manga is rated amongst others from the same publisher by readers EVERY WEEK so that a top manga can easily fall from grace with just one issue if it doesn't match up with the competition. I think this gives the publishers/mangaka a great insight on what does and doesn't work with each chapter.
I think the rating's biggest component is that it really pushes the idea that you want the reader to actually like the manga instead of intentionally pissing half the readers off in hopes a few folks who don't even care about comics will buy it out of support/spite (and it seems obvious that doesn't work even a little bit) Ironically, that leads into the fact that manga typically uses tropes that a lot of "woke" westerners would call problematic if those tropes were in Marvel or DC books, ironically those same westerners are the ones collecting said manga.
And the obvious is that mangaka typically have almost full control of the manga they're creating(not just picking up where someone else left off and deciding to completely retcon everything), so they needn't worry about upholding the consistentcy of a century-old character or worrying the publisher's timid public relations. In manga, you're encouraged to push the envelope because it (surprise surprise) that shit SELLS, at least as long as the manga can consistently back it up with interesting characters/stories.
You can see all this working in western books like Hellboy, The Goon, and even Sean G Murphy's take with Batman. But that isn't the norm for SOME reason. The best theory I got is that DC/Marvel don't want to lose an artist or writer if their original story sucks (even though they'll replace them anyway) and manga is famously very cold when it comes to pushing out talent that just can't cut it (none of the 2000's house writers would last a month)
And that leads to any mangaka feeling the sour taste of failure eventually (in most cases) and having to have the determination to get back up and try again and again with new series until they strike gold, where in comics they'll blacklist whoever can't sell Green Lantern books. This has issues, however, when it comes to the stress level every mangaka suffers through (but hey, that only means you gotta really want it, and Marvel/DC def have a problem with sniffing out the weak ones amongst them)
At the end of the day, you can assume Marvel and DC only care about milking intellectual property instead of new exciting stories, and I think that's the final nail in their coffin. They've run out of (good) ideas and newer/independent publishers aren't getting the wave of creators churning out enough exciting stuff to really hit the mainstream (until it gets a TV show and even then it flops half the time)
I theorize that's all about the money and the fear of taking chances like Eric said. Though at this point what can the big 2 really lose? Sean G Murphy proved it can work with White Knight, and Old Man Logan was one of the only interesting things to come out of Marvel in the last twenty years imo.
To the one guy who reads this whole comment, I suggest reading Ga-Rei, it was one of my favorite manga as a kid (the prequel anime was lame, skip it)
Also, I haven't thought of Adam Warren or Empowered since the dA days, that dude's work was beautiful even back then
Thank you for taking the time to write all of this! Its all very informative!
we have almost the same problems in Europe ( France/Belgium mostly since that's almost the last country to have a real comic industry with Italie) the sales in global don't really go down but they are spread thin between all the publications, our readers are getting old and all the young one go toward Manga with no transfer toward french comic latter anymore, and nowadays a lot are reading on theyre phones for free also.
There is a lot of reasons ( economic, cool, format, etc... ) but i think that there is something more attracting in Manga for youth, something easier, more catchy... not the style, because they vary a lot, maybe the format, smaller, less panels, not very dense text wise... i don't know
but after 25 years, even manga sales are starting to slow. There is a lot other things people can do, other than reading, nowadays, the competition is growing and a lot are "free" :)
this to say that i'm not sure doing paperback would change anything to attract them. You'll catch up with older reader you maybe lost, sure, but to catch younger folks... not sure :)
Perhaps I missed the episode, but I’m curious how well Eric’s Arc Athen currently is doing compared to the crowdfunding…?I’m assuming the more direct way he’s currently doing provides the same if not more benefits…
I'm not sure, but this would be a great question for the live show on December 27th. Any chance you can make it?
If I can just do audio? I’m on satellite and I haven’t tested the bandwidth for video yet( also don’t have a set up for that. You kids and your fancy machines!)
LOL! It will be on youtube, so if you can listen that way, please do!@@BrettRBooth
So where is this Todd interview?
January 1st! :)
Manga fosters a level of investment that Western comics doesn't. Same creative team start to finish for in some cases decades. Manga doesn't get published unless there is a likelihood of it going the distance. Part of the reason I don't care about BIg 2 books is the art and writers shifts so often. and the only time I read them is in collections where I know the creative team is constant, or at least mostly constant. For me that includes the Jorge Jimenez Batmans. But I also LOVE a lot image books. Black Science for example Rick and Mateo start to finish. Once and Future, and other Remender books same artist all the way thru. I HATE when I am into a story and the artist changes by the issue or many cases mid issue. Quickest way to get me to put a book down.
By that token however, Manga creators run themselves into the ground way worse that western do. Their turn out expectations are insane.
The comic book industry is not dying, Marvel and Dc are stuck and need to evolve and adapt to the changing times where their universes and theirs books don't have enough connection to the wider publics awareness eg in movies, games, streaming etc. Entry points and number one issues are never going to be successful enough to hold new readers when the characters in comic continuity differ from what they watch. Manga had huge appeal because they are volumes like trades when released instead of chapters like floppies and also expand on the other media consumed instead being in a completely different continuity because of canon.
For example with new Miles Morales Spiderman movies being released and the knowledge 2 to 3 years in advance that they are coming out, Marvel's Miles Morales Spiderman comic is tied to the comic universe instead of telling expanded stories from the movie universe that when parents walk into a comic book store the retailer has something to relate that experience to instead of this is the same character but in is totally different continuity
I agree!
I don't know if the industry is dying, but it's for sure in its dumb shark mode.
AHAHAHAAHAH! Exactly!
I like the profit sharing idea, but Mark's citing the 90's where you had speculators driving sales. The mainstream needs readers. A shot ton of readers. The monthly comic format needs a rethink. It's not a satisfying chunk for the cover price to read it. I can breeze through an issue in 5 minutes. That's terrible. I grew up in the late 80's. A comic was an afternoon. I want that experience again. An hour or more of entertainment. Fix that, and you might have mainstream come back and sell at Raina numbers. The big appeal of manga is it's fresh new ideas instead of what dad used to read. The big 2 have to take some more risks and operate like a book publisher.
I agree with a lot of this!
Middle management will not be very interested in cutting titles, as that would compromise the security of their own job. Any such decision will only ever come from much higher management when no other option is left. The big two look to overwhelm the retail shelf space, to drive out the lesser known companies, and give the impression that they are successful. This is to the detriment of the retailer, since they do not have a return policy. The big two are riding the backs of the retailer. The current distribution model is flawed, and the price point is killing the medium. The growth of comics has to come from comics themself. They need to be accessible, affordable and well crafted escapism; Devoid of political agendas. Hollywood is not the answer. It's a fool's game to think that Hollywood will make the comics medium better or more successful. The two mediums are the equivalent to a fish and a bicycle. Lastly.. The comicbook art form, needs to be celebrated. Its an ace card for the survival of this medium. The sale of original artwork will help make this more a reality. Comic artists need to be promoted. Comics have had their healthiest era's, when the comic creator (especially the penciler/artist) was the most celebrated member of the team.