I would be interested in seeing the first wave of F 35‘s being in stealth, targeting the awacs and first wave of Chinese fighters. Then the murder configuration cleans up.
Agreed, utilize that stealth to neutralize the first wave of defense. Keep that area of engagement closer to China. Gives the Bogs a chance to get closer to launch distance.
Agreed Cap has been sending in the J-20 for china to do this it only makes sense the US would do the same. also the E-2 would likely be farther out in front to provide a better sight picture to the fighters.
For a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).
@16:49...LHA1 Tarawa? Decommissioned 2009...was on her May/Nov 1989. Had 2 Harriers land and take off from the deck. Mostly all CH-46 and CH-53's back then.
10:30 Yeah, I understand the game limitations, I can see how it would be difficult to program refueling, but . . . 1) Having served on a carrier (USS Kitty Hawk CVA-63) in Vietnam, I can say with certainty that there would be 6 or more Hornets refueling the squadron immediately after takeoff, and the attack squadron would loiter, and join up for a concentrated attack run all at once (or more probably by sixes), not one at a time, in line. 2) Also, the USN would certainly neutralize the enemy AWACS first thing, giving the Hornets an added 100-150 miles undetected. That's been American strategy since the advent of the F-117. (See Tom Clancy's _"Red Storm Rising.")_ After all, stealth is the biggest strength of the F-35, why would one toss that away? 3) Now that I think about it, wouldn't China know the US strike force was in the East China Sea? And have an AWACS 300 miles from the carrier, watching the US fleet?
Yeah, and not just AWACS but the Satellites also because this preapations would take months or so, so you cant really do it silently or how to say. Undetected. I would love to see in a real time simulation with real time pilots, commanders etc which side would win. USA Carrier Group attack on the Chinese Carrier Group. With their most modern assets. That would be interesting. Iam not speaking about real fight, nobody wants a world war where people dies, but a real time simulation between this 2 giants. :D I think USA easy win, especially if NATO decide to help, with the newest and the one of the best Destroyers in the world right now, the Type 45 Destoyers. I think if USA decide to attack a Chinese Carrier Group, they will ask for at least 1 Type 45 Destroyer. And not to mention the RAF Eurofighters also. Okay, they can not really operate them from carriers, but not really needed to operate them if you can position 15 of them nearby in Japan for example, and then they refuel before the final path to the targets, or they can actually ask for the French Rafale M which is the navy version, and it can actually operate from a USA carrier.
Yeah I’d think they would be watching the carrier and would be able to scramble faster, but also the US would have bomber support and tomahawks launching to saturate air defenses with and using decoys etc
@@briana5444 yeah, that's what I was thinking as well with the decoys. The Chinese would have no choice but to waste enormous amounts of missles, and hopefully their good ones.
split the F35s into two groups 1st lot goes in ahead in full stealth(GR pilots), then the AI F35s in partial Murder layout (drop tank inplace of gun pod) then the Enemy AWACs see's the Second group of F35s and the first group can get the jump on the J15s
AWACs still detect stealth craft at this range, just not very percise. It can't tell the number or type of craft these stealth formations have. But it cal tell they are there. Low radar return does not mean zero return. The AWACs seeing a "flock of birds" flying at high altitudes a head of a enemy jet formation isn't going to think it's a flock of birds.
That was incredible missile theater. It really boils down to numbers, doesn't it? Great job on the custom unit creation. This was a real treat to watch and eerily authentic looking.
I was thinking about adding a couple of B2’s at a completely different (~90 degrees ?) attack vector, timed to coincide with the main missile attack arriving.
The importance of the 003 is mostly the catapulting capability that allows to launch jets with full fuel and ordnance. The current launch does not allow full weight capacity. Plus they want to be able to launch an AWACS and a tanker that look remarkably like the E2 and S3.
Murder Lightning config seems to be the way to go on the defensive. On the attack, stealth config seems to be superior. There's no hard-and-fast configuration that is excellent in every situation.
The prevaling thought is that the F-35s would go in Stealth config until the air defense is dealt with. However if this is a surprise attack to take out Fujian, my thought would be you could send 4 of the 35s in Stealth configuration to take out the AWACS. They would be ahead of the attack wave by about 150 nautical miles. They take out the AWACS. The J-15s would immediately scramble but they wouldn't have the AWACS support. They would then have to rely on their own radars, the S-400 radar and the ship radar to find the Super bugs and the rest of the F-35s that are in murder configuration. I would also think that the F-35s would come in from a different vector than the F-18s as well. Same range, different angle coming in. This means the J-15s have to spread out to target both threats. That means they can't just ripple the PL-15s into the straight line of death coming in. For sake of ease, just have the LHA at like 30 degrees difference to the main attack run. 2 vectors. I bet you they get through or have a fighting chance of doing so.
Why would there be no jet patrol in the skies for the AWACs? Why would there be no secondary AWAC in reserve? Internet tacticans like to imagine fighting against morons. Also low radar return does not mean no return, radar can still see stealth jets at close range.
@@lolasdm6959 because this is considered a surprise attack over their own homeland. That AWACS is flying over the mainland next to a base with J-15s armed and ready along with the S-400 site and a radar picket from destroyers. There wouldn't be a need for a jet patrol with it. And yes low observable does mean it can be seen. But which is the closer range? The detectable range it can be seen on radar? Or the range of the Aim 120 D. My bet is on the bvr missile.
@@CombatIneffective What? The entire war is about being attacked across the entire Chinese coastline. Enemy aircrafts are within range of your valuable assets and you expect the Chinese commanders to be all brain dead? Oh yeah surely the enemy would never try to do any sneaky attacks. Yeah just have zero reserves, and no air patrol. To launch a BVR missile, the second you opened your launch bay the enemy will have a large radar return on your EXACT location. To even enter within range of a BVR attack, you already entered into detectable range, the enemy already know you exist in that general direction. BVR attack is within 150km, that is quite enough distance for detecting a stealth jet. A radar showing an object the size of a hummingbird flying above the open ocean isn't tricking anyone with half a braincell.
Also, a diversionary attack by the US may have worked well, the primary aim of a diversionary attack is to force your enemy to commit its reserve, either to counter the diversionary attack or to backfill the initial responders.
It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi. The LRASM can be deployed from both the F-35 and the F-18. Apparently LRASMs have also been launched from the B1B Lancer, and even from the P-8 Poseidon! Apparently the LRASM weighs 2,500 lb (1,100 kg), in air-launch configuration, per Wikipedia, anyway. While a Superhornet may struggle to carry such a missile that range, a B1B certainly would not.
1/ PLAN DDs should be mobile on a roving station. Mini-racetracks. 2/ AShM strike against PLAN DDs. 3/ SEAD/HARM strike against S-400 even if it's just to keep them busy and drain their counter-fire. RE - USMC, they're often considered to be the "poor cousin" of the branches (not sure if they're still technically "owned" by the USN) and their testing requirements (ASVAB) are lower than some other branches - ie. minimum score requirements by service, USAF 36, Army 31, USGC 40, USMC 32, USN 35. These numbers change over time. Marines are also rumored to eat a lot of crayons.
Another awesome video, but a bit of mix feelings as Shanghai is my birth city. I need to point out glaring issue is Shanghai harbour is full of skyscrapers, the entire city of 21 million ppl mostly lives in high rise buildings. Those low flying cruise missile would have hit multiple buildings before they even reach it.
Whats crazy is the same scenarios are being played out at the 25th Intelligence Squadron (25 IS) at Hurlburt Field, By integrating all-source intelligence and electronic combat capability for special operations forces (SOF), the 25 IS has made their unique intelligence resources integral to SOF mission planning, rehearsal, and execution... "Born Under Fire"
I mean there is a pretty clear issue with the HHQ-9 Targeting the cruise missiles. They are all targeting one missile and all the destroyers are launching 100s of missiles targeting one cruise missile. The moment the target is destroyed all the airborne HHQ-9s just self destruct (as you can see on the map for a split second)
An attack on a Chinese CV would be a combined arms excercise, so you would have B1's, B-52s, B2's, F-35 and F-22s. This would also be the sort of scenario where an re-fitted 747 with an revolver looking carousel based in it's interior firing AIM-120D en masse just like the TU-95.
Agreed, to pull off a strike on such a target we really would be pulling out all the stops and have it timed perfectly using decoys, HARMS, tomahawks, etc
@@bussolini6307 tbh it would be an absolutely massive conflict, so yes, I believe China would have more time so support from multiple air bases, but also I think US would be utilizing Okinawa and Guam too, we also have 20% of our B2s stationed in Australia
Good simulation. Really enjoyed it. One scenario to investigate at some point would be the Rapid Dragon system where large volleys of cruise missles are dropped from cargo planes. How well would it work at overwelming missile defence systems. I am sure DCS can not do Rapid Dragon at this point, but you could simulate from the point after the missiles are dropped.
I wonder if they would launch a couple of flights of B-52s from Guam and Okinawa with those heavier missiles you mentioned with a far off launch, with the F-35s and Bogs providing area defence and auxiliary attack. Maybe B-2s if not 52s.
This is what I was going to say. If they are that dead set on the attack, and that close to Japan and Okinawa, i would think they would include cruise missiles and/or TALDs from B-2s/52s.
Great work Cap & Crew! ☺ I called it from the start, as you hadn't provided a US AWACS. That gave the Chinese the ability to attack the bombers immediately, thus removing the F-35's already handcuffed (having too low fuel for evasion) position. 😉 Also, the bombers never would have gone in 1 to 2 at a time. It is totally the inverse of saturation. 😉 Really do enjoy watching all of these. Cheers 🤗 for your guys' hard work, love & determination, as well as the humor. ☺
We poke fun at the Jarheads because - well, they're Jarheads. They poke fun at use dog faces. It's like teasing your siblings, it's a family thing. And we all poke fun at the Donald Duck navy. In real life, the Marines got a big boost by a book "Guadalcanal Diary" during WWII. It gave the Marines a mythos. So, the Marines think they won the war in the Pacific with their six divisions (and the American public bought that story).
Something to consider for the murder lightnings, would sacrificing 2 amram delta's for 2 drop tanks be worth while since you've all ready got the compromised RSC and usually being launched from carrier's and needing to cover long distances. I don't know if it's modelled to carry them in game but I think it would be worth while
@@grimreapers what about 6 or 8 bugs with HARMS nap of the earth overwhelm the S400 with another 4 to 6 F35s also attacking the S400. 4 to 6 F35s go after the AWACS the rest of the F35s go for the Fighters and the rest of the bugs are split between the Carrier and the Frigates
Thanks for the hard work putting this together, as well as with the mods yall are doing to bring modernized weapons to the sim. One thing to note is that, technically, you only used half of the Reagan's Hornets. Reagan has 4 Hornet squadrons of 12 planes a piece, not counting the Growlers. 24 more Super Hornets, loaded out in murder configuration, would have picked up the missile slack and allowed the F-35s to maintain stealth configuration. IRL, those Lightnings would also data link with Hornets, giving an even better chance of good target solutions. But I get it, there are limitations on what the server can do, and what you guys can model in game. Excellent work!
I think the Hornets would still carrying 2 AIM-9 Super Snake on the wing tips for self defense. That would be more realistic. But that´s just a tiny detail.
Cant believe you actually did the video! You amazing guys! Such a hard work behind this things. Iam so glad that I found your channel guys! :D Keep up the good work! (Please, if you can fix something, than it would be the Type 45 Destroyers and their missiles. The SM2 is close and similar to the Aster 15 and 30 but it would be nice to see the different missiles for the UK side. Aster 15 close range Aster 30 long range Aster 30 block 1NT 150+ range. If you guys can make this work, that would be awesome, and I believe it can be actuallly better than the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.) (Also, you mentioned you dont want to watch and wait until they finish the refueling of 60+ aircraft. Then lets spawn them closer and already in the sky, assuming they just got refueled and ready to fly towards their target.) And you know what? These American cruise missiles are devastating. Holy s..... That many missiles can take out a whole Russian Carrier Group without any problems whatsoever. Why the S400 fired late? In my opinion because of the crusie missile low visibility, line of sight and the cruise missile own jamming system. This new cruise missile what you made is awesome man. It is as good as the Russian ones. Cant wait for the new Carrier Group vs Carrier Group fights!
Well, according to what I read from China military forum, Type 03 will be equipped not only with J-15, but also J-35; or the Navy version of J-31. And because this is China land, the variation of Chinese PLAAF should be more diverse. As they have a combination of J-10 series (A,B, C), J-20, J-16, J-11B, etc. They can also have H-6K / H-6H to bring their own anti ship missile from the sky, while PLANAF can bring JH-7A also to aim for the ships. For J-20, usually they fly in tandem with J-16. Also, PLAN has only 6 Type 052C Destroyer in their inventory. If this is Chinese CV003, then it will be guarded with Type 055, Type 052D, in tandem with Type 054A for long, medium, short air defense layer for their Aircraft carrier.
Looks excellent thus far, at the 24 minute mark. You just remarked that the F-35s, because they are not in stealth configuration, could not have gone in early... First, for a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).
as far as Im aware F22s can't reach the chinese mainland from US airbases and would require alot of tanking to keep aloft. This would probably tip the chinese off and cause J20s to get scrabled to go after the tankers.
@@wolf06291980 Maybe. I'm not sure about the B2, but the B1B only carries 24 x LRASMs, and the B-21 is said to carry 30. You may not make it passed the S-400 with those missiles, much less the destroyers too, without some additional SEAD operations and assets. And the B2 is subsonic, and can be roughly located with a network of several L-band radars, like those on the S-400 and the destroyers. If they can get supersonic fighters airborne, they could overrun the B2. On the other hand, in my plan (I increasingly favor the use of the B1B), we want them to scramble supersonic fighters, because we want the 2nd wave to intercept them, but ideally, we want that to happen after the destroyers are destroyed, perhaps after a few Hornets have also discharged HARMs towards any remaining destroyers and the S-400 and other enemy radars too. With the B1B, we can come in at 200 feet and Mach 0.96, and then deploy the cruise missiles before we are seen, or at least before they have any hope of an intercept, after which, the F-22s will cover the B1B retreat, which will itself climb, accelerate to Mach 1.25, and make a rapid exfil, while the Chinese jets deployed to hunt it down find themselves running right into the F-22 escorts, and the first F-35s, in stealth configuration, with several in the proverbial "beast mode" following behind, along with the hornets, some of which will be in air to air mode. By the time the interceptors and the 2nd wave from the Navy Carrier meet, the B1B will halfway to Guam. But we want them to notice the B1B, so they will scramble what they have. We want the B1B to lead the strike, so it will be the first thing they see, and so it will have already fired and begun RTB before the Chinese jets get off the runway, ideally.
@@Gabriel_McMillan I agree with your assessment. However, you would change the loadout of the B2 to fit the situation. Rather than using glide bombs that are vulnerable to SAM, I would pick the GBU-37 GPS guided freefall bomb. Or, hell put some dumb slicks on there and carpet the carrier. You aren't shooting those down.
@@wolf06291980 Won't work. You underestimate the S-400 and the Chinese destroyers. You need to launch from hundreds of miles away, and use low-observable munitions, even in the B2. And in the B2, if they can see you on IR sensors, they can shoot you down with a MIG or a destroyer or an S-400 missile which can work with datalinked sensors or that has an IR sensor on the missile. A SU-35 is said to be able to see a stealth aircraft from 30 miles away, using its IRST, and can also see them from a considerable distance with their airborne L-band search radars, and perhaps even to develop a weapons quality track, with only passive sensors, using datalinks to other airborne and ground/sea-based L-band radars, or so I hear, anyway. Using a stealth aircraft to draw the enemy aircraft out to sea sort of defeats the point, if they won't see it until it is almost on top of them. Also, China has very good GPS jamming, which is why the LRASM has a multi-mode seeker.
Good simulation once again. From all the scenarios I've seen looks like the attacker is always at a disadvantage ( which is true in real life I supose ). Other than that, good to see the AIM120D's and the PL15's working properly finally. Kinda weird what happened with the dd fired HQ9's in the 2nd simulation tho. You could see them exploding on their own in the air. They basically did nothing.
Interesting video, I have some issues though, one critique of the specific strategy, and then a general critique of the battleplan. For fleet defense, murder Lightnings seems reasonable, but for an attack, I think they'd be in full stealth mode. That's kinda what they were made for, penetrating enemy air defenses undetected. Which leads me to my more general critique. I don't think this is at all how the US would do a counterstrike. For one thing, no Tomahawks were fired, and I can pretty much guarantee the Burkes and Ticos of 7th fleet would send out an enormous wave of Tomahawks. Secondly, assuming the Air Force doesn't get involved and it's just F-35s available, the F-35s would do the initial strike. The F/A-18s would not be sent on a mission where they'd be that vulnerable. This is the kind of mission the F-35 was designed for. The F-35s and the Tomahawks would probably mostly be focused on the air defenses. A couple F-35s would be tasked with taking out the AWACs, the rest would be packing JDAMs, JSOWs or SDBs to finish off the S-400 site, and air base after the Tomahawks went in. You could also arm some F-35s with laser guided bombs to hit the destroyers, but they could probably be left for the follow on strike. That's when the Hornets launch with a mix of SLAM-ERs and Harpoons to take out the destroyers and the Type 003. Also, I believe the nickname for the Super Hornet is the "Rhino", not the "Super Bug".
Shanghai harbor has hundreds, if not thousands of cargo ships parked offshore. Nobody knows which one's, if any, are armed. Imagine what would happen if 10 percent of them had antiaircraft weapons on board
DCS has some limitations, but wouldn't the US use the LRASM against something like this? The super Hornet can carry 4 and the F-35, 2 in stealth configuration
The airwing usually disembarks from the carrier when it comes into port (so they can do training flights independently of the ship), so the airwings could have been in play. The Aegis boats could have brought gas turbine generators online and the radars too so all of them should have been fighting. They are usually left off in port so people can do maintenance but could be brought up quickly (easily within ten minutes). You act like the mach 4 missiles would have been a hard SM-2/6 target, but they can his mach 12 IRBMs, so the YJ's wouldn't be that hard.
I have not yet watched this entire video, but I just wanted to say this while I'm thinking about it. US destroyers and cruisers have cruise missiles. In this scenario, we would use them, especially if we thought we needed to overwhelm the Chinese defenses to hit the target(s). Given it's the 7th fleet, with a lot of destroyers, there would be quite a lot of cruise missiles. In addition, I have not looked, but it may be that we now have our newer missiles on our destroyers/cruisers. I know that DCS does not have subs, but it sure would be nice if it did because that would certainly be a game changer (yes, pun intended). I really need to make time for this game and buy a new flight control system. I can certainly afford it, and I'm a good pilot. Keep up the great work guys. Love all your videos (and I'm a little jealous of the fun you have - both playing them and creating them).
One problem is it's not likely that the F-18s would have been sent out without a couple long range amram and a couple sidewinder. even f it limited antiship missles.
Is the AGM-154A JSOW modeled in game? It has a 70 mile range from a high altitude release and the F-35 can carry them internally. Maybe stealth configured F-35s could get close enough to launch them? especially if they came in from the north bypassing the ships.
This goes both ways. China is more likely to have massive numbers of cruise missiles to overwhelm American defenses to sink one US carrier. They will launch hundreds, if not thousands at once.
Hi cap. From Wiki. in 2015 the US Navy and USAF have in antiship role the AGM-158C LRASM. 2018 integrated on Super Hornet and B-1B. It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi (560 km; 350 mi). That was base on AGM-158 JASSM (cruise missile) with range JASSM: 370 km (230 mi) and JASSM-ER: > 925 km (575 mi) .
In that shot _welcome to GR thumbnail_ why does the right vert stab on both F-35's go straight up while the left vert stabs are canted like on the real F-35?
If you run this again, have refueling drones at optimal locations. Break the attack up into several groups that approach from different headings. Having one long single line of aircraft makes it optimal for missiles. If a pl15 loses lock on one, it can easily pick up a lock on others.
The B-2 was currently tested with the JAASM-ER anti ship missiles for making the B-2 a really deadly ship hunter , and if they actually use this duo, the Chineese won't even know what hit them....😏.... And I really think this would probably be primarily an USAF mission, while the Navy would play the Escort for the bombers.... Using FA 18s armed fully with Air to Air missiles, a few EA-18s (To help the B-2 by blinding the Chineese SAMS) , and a few F 35s (mostly for SIGNIT or ISR roles)....
Thank you Grim Reapers for the interesting content and scenarios. Has your channel ever done a simulation of a clash where China carries out a pre-emptive strike on the US bases in the Philippines? It would be fascinating to see how the country would fare in a scenario like that. And added to the mix is a QRF from Japan to augment the less sophisticated air force jets in the existing inventory. It's also plausible that the hypersonic missiles would be employed to take out the runways and other early warning facilities. The scenarios you post are always interesting. More power to your channel.
Grim, China has two S-400 batteries. One is deployed in Bejing and the other is deployed in Tibet with the one in Tibet likely only partially operational due to Russia not fulfilling their contract following the invasion of Ukraine. Most of the SAM systems along the Chinese coast are HQ-9A/B & HQ-12 with the occasional HQ-16 or mobile SHORAD regiments like the HQ-64 which generally sit around airfields. I've been mapping Chinese SAMs & EW radars with open-source satellite imagery.
This fight really had me sitting on the edge of my seat at times. I enjoyed this very much. Thanks for all the hard work Cap and remember, the wife is always right.
In real life though, as seen time and time again and again, a Cbinese war ship will dog and shadow any US carrier fleet whenever it is in the western pacific. Not to mention they have that fishing trawler fleet acting as their eyes. The Chinese will definitely know if the US is launching a surprise attack on them.
@@lolasdm6959 Yes, at under 500miles thats suicidally close for a US carrier group to be to the chinese mainland. Land based antiship missiles will come into play at this range
I agree with Simba, a Nimitz can throw aircraft into the air pretty quick. If they are prepped for an Alpha Strike, the carrier is emptied fast. Early October 200, it was mind boggling to see three carrier launching on Afghanistan.
Could you guys do something like a Malta Class Carrier (the never built UK equivalent of the Midway Class) with a squadron of Buccaneers and Phantoms in a Falklands 1982 war scenario? (maybe 2x of them, 4x were planned and by 82 3x would likely still be in service) Maybe do an alternate first strike attack on the port Stanley runway, as with these carriers around with Buccaneers, it would likely mean that the Vulcans would either not considered or be simply put on standby. Because its a big what if, I guess the closet thing you could model in terms of carrier capability would be a Midway class with modded F18.
Honestly, I think the planes need to show up about 5 minutes after a massive Tomahawk attack. That way the defense has depleted/scattered its resources on the cruise missiles before you guys showed up.
Loved the video @Grim Reapers! Can't wait for the next video man! This whole Scenario was basically giving me "Doolittle Raid 2: Electric Boogaloo" Vibes. The Ronald Reagan-Subclass of the Nimitz-class Aircraft Carriers was the Design Testbed for the Island Structure placement that you see on America's Newer Gerald R. Ford-class Aircraft Carriers. As for London having 1 Ship that's completely useless at defending it, Would you be Talking about The Town-class, Edinburgh-group Light Cruiser HMS Belfast by chance? If so, then from you good sir *I demand Satisfaction* LMAO! I'm wondering if you guys have ever done any World War Two period Naval Engagements in DCS Before? I think a Few Good ones to look up are the November 1st to 2nd, 1943 Night Battle of Empress Augusta Bay and the December 26th, 1943 Night Battle of North Cape would prove interesting to look at to say the least.
Given the carrier isn't moving and can be considered a big floating building, are there any munitions in game that would normally be better suited toward static targets you could use that would have a longer range? Seems like you could almost haul a bunch of MRBMs onto the flight deck and light them up at once if you wanted to obliterate a ship in harbour.
The USA is a big mouth, in Vietnam war, the USA faced an army without no an air force, the USA lost 58,000 soldiers, and another 300,000 American soldiers wounded.
Not having far to go favored the defense greatly. The JASSM/LRASM do have stealth capabilities and would've been perfect for a mission like this. Once you guys get the JASSM/LRASM up and running, you should do this scenario again with USAF bombers kicking things off from afar and then have the Navy follow up.
Just had a though, I am calling "buddy stealth" The idea is that you take a stealth aircraft like the f-22 and pair it up with something like an f-16. You put the f-16 behind the f-22 in-between it and a radar looking for the f-16. The stealth of the f-22 hides it from the radar and the f-16 is behind it, so the radar cant see past the raptor and the f-16 goes unseen.
No if you do that the enemy will just see the F-22, stealth does not mean zero radar return. Plus there are several radars from nearly every direction so you get busted very fast.
It should be noted the US is aware of fuel issue and the F-35A and C will receive a new engine as part of the Block IV upgrade that will increase range by 20% and thrust by 15%. The next gen adaptive cycle engines will go to USAF NGAD and the USN F/A-XX. Which should see increases approaching 50% range and 25% thrust, when compared to the F-22 and F-35. There is also a plan to create a new type of larger and stealthier drop tank for 5th and 6th gen fighters.
I love these things, thanks for the hard work. Side note as a Navy guy, my boring example: One Virginia class sub launches 6 Tomahawks, 4 Harpoons and then disappears back into the stealth of the ocean. The end.
@@hughmungus2760 It's all about the surprise. Without an air or surface contact they'll be questioning what they are seeing. By the time they do see it, analyze and approve to fire it's to late. Keep in mind all of these battles are brute force, wars is eminent posture, full radar and everyone at their battle station. I'm suggesting the black stealth of night, unexpecting, watch standers to afraid to wake up the fire control officer.
@@_mysilentblue2227 In this scenario china is already at war with the US and everyone would be on high alert. any group of unidentified signatures approaching would be considered hostile
The US is currently rolling out the AIM-260, which are believed to have twice the range as the 120Ds so for a strike like this, I am sure they'd used those instead (F-35s). I think attacking all in one would have easily failed. The F-35 is designed to be used in it's stealth configuration until the US military achieves air superiority. Neutralize the enemy airfield, take out the Chinese AWACS and then go for hold. It should only take a few air frames to achieve this, given proper armaments. The downside you'd have is China would be watching the US fleet closely (this I have no idea) with probably more AWACS or other means. Once you achieve air superiority (No enemy fighters, you'll always have to contend with Surface to Air) then the US easily dominates. Apart from that, awesome video as per usual mate. :)
Really enjoying the War Games series but I was almost shouting at my screen when I realised how you were using the F35s in this battle. The F35 was borne of the Joint Strike Fighter program...and the clue's in the name. It'd be interesting to see if F35s in a stealth config would be able to get close enough to hit the Chinese carrier, as I think that's closer to how they'd be used IRL. The Super Bugs could then be used tin "Murder" config to keep the Chinese fighters busy.
I agree maybe the first wave of f-35s being in stealth configuration, but also more interestingly I think you could add a joint venture to this from the US Air Force, and have some raptors and some strike eagles that got midair refueled close by and are joining in on the strike, And it would give the human something to fly besides just f-35s. I would think a handful of raptors in a handful of strike eagles with some kind of standoff cruise missiles or glide bombs could really be the difference in this fight.
f-22+ f35 combo would be a killer. Problem IRL is ofc, that f-35 has designed to be hundreds, maby thousands (like f-16 for example), and/but f-22 are built only 127 (at least in paper..) planes in whole world. Here in Finland I truly wonder if f-35 could be used with swedish Gripen E. (or C, why not) that could also be interesting possible "nordic" combination (F35´s in norway and Finland + gripen+global eye from swedish airforce...)
@@lasselahti4056 good point, and add to that how many are down for maintenance or major repairs, even having enough qualified pilots could be a factor. I would hope they would be in strategic locations for air alert though, like in this scenario maybe in Korea, Japan, or Philippines doing rotations. With enough heads up and coordination with the navy in this scenario, even just 4 planes added to the mission could make a large difference if utilized properly, especially if augmented with some more 4th gen fighters from the air force side of the house like f15, f16. I think the F35 has the ability to significantly increase the capability of any fighter force if they can use data link to be the eyes and ears of the whole force while being at significantly less risk due to their stealth.
Hey cap great simulation and video, I have a question, how did you get the all the super hornet pylons to work? 15:06 thx cap always prove seeing your vids
In real life I suspect that there would be lots cruise missiles from surface ships (& possibly submarines) as well. And maybe have subs take out the Chicom DDs
@@cyronader As part of pre-war lead-up I would make sure a SSGN & a SSBN were seen in different ports in the general area. And I would have about 3 more of each that were not seen.
Hey Cap do you think the U.S. would only send one ore even two Carrier strike groups? Or do you think they would come with a collision of Multiple strike groups from all different countries? Can you not run a Strike of that size on your Server?
![FILMMAKER REACTS: STAR CITIZEN | [ALL SHIP ADS - PART 1!!] | ARE YOU SERIOUS?!](/img/n.gif)
Modernized 5th Gen Stealth Attempt: th-cam.com/video/Om8-RUw57aY/w-d-xo.html
I would be interested in seeing the first wave of F 35‘s being in stealth, targeting the awacs and first wave of Chinese fighters. Then the murder configuration cleans up.
Agreed, utilize that stealth to neutralize the first wave of defense. Keep that area of engagement closer to China. Gives the Bogs a chance to get closer to launch distance.
Agreed Cap has been sending in the J-20 for china to do this it only makes sense the US would do the same. also the E-2 would likely be farther out in front to provide a better sight picture to the fighters.
Not his fault some idiot commented saying that the F35 should attack in murder config
@@UTock I would agree with murder config on defense, stealth is defiantly the way for offensive actions with incursions into enemy SAM site ranges.
For a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).
The rate at which you put out these amazing simulations baffles me. Love everything including all the nitty gritty details, keep it up!
Agreed - Cap is Amazing! That’s why I keep coming here to watch all the fun ! 🤩
@16:49...LHA1 Tarawa? Decommissioned 2009...was on her May/Nov 1989. Had 2 Harriers land and take off from the deck. Mostly all CH-46 and CH-53's back then.
10:30 Yeah, I understand the game limitations, I can see how it would be difficult to program refueling, but . . .
1) Having served on a carrier (USS Kitty Hawk CVA-63) in Vietnam, I can say with certainty that there would be 6 or more Hornets refueling the squadron immediately after takeoff, and the attack squadron would loiter, and join up for a concentrated attack run all at once (or more probably by sixes), not one at a time, in line.
2) Also, the USN would certainly neutralize the enemy AWACS first thing, giving the Hornets an added 100-150 miles undetected. That's been American strategy since the advent of the F-117. (See Tom Clancy's _"Red Storm Rising.")_ After all, stealth is the biggest strength of the F-35, why would one toss that away?
3) Now that I think about it, wouldn't China know the US strike force was in the East China Sea? And have an AWACS 300 miles from the carrier, watching the US fleet?
Yea that's what I was thinking too
No buddy packs for ai or players 😖
Yeah, and not just AWACS but the Satellites also because this preapations would take months or so, so you cant really do it silently or how to say. Undetected. I would love to see in a real time simulation with real time pilots, commanders etc which side would win. USA Carrier Group attack on the Chinese Carrier Group. With their most modern assets. That would be interesting. Iam not speaking about real fight, nobody wants a world war where people dies, but a real time simulation between this 2 giants. :D I think USA easy win, especially if NATO decide to help, with the newest and the one of the best Destroyers in the world right now, the Type 45 Destoyers. I think if USA decide to attack a Chinese Carrier Group, they will ask for at least 1 Type 45 Destroyer. And not to mention the RAF Eurofighters also. Okay, they can not really operate them from carriers, but not really needed to operate them if you can position 15 of them nearby in Japan for example, and then they refuel before the final path to the targets, or they can actually ask for the French Rafale M which is the navy version, and it can actually operate from a USA carrier.
Yeah I’d think they would be watching the carrier and would be able to scramble faster, but also the US would have bomber support and tomahawks launching to saturate air defenses with and using decoys etc
@@briana5444 yeah, that's what I was thinking as well with the decoys. The Chinese would have no choice but to waste enormous amounts of missles, and hopefully their good ones.
split the F35s into two groups 1st lot goes in ahead in full stealth(GR pilots), then the AI F35s in partial Murder layout (drop tank inplace of gun pod) then the Enemy AWACs see's the Second group of F35s and the first group can get the jump on the J15s
AWACs still detect stealth craft at this range, just not very percise. It can't tell the number or type of craft these stealth formations have. But it cal tell they are there. Low radar return does not mean zero return. The AWACs seeing a "flock of birds" flying at high altitudes a head of a enemy jet formation isn't going to think it's a flock of birds.
That was incredible missile theater. It really boils down to numbers, doesn't it? Great job on the custom unit creation. This was a real treat to watch and eerily authentic looking.
I was thinking about adding a couple of B2’s at a completely different (~90 degrees ?) attack vector, timed to coincide with the main missile attack arriving.
The importance of the 003 is mostly the catapulting capability that allows to launch jets with full fuel and ordnance. The current launch does not allow full weight capacity. Plus they want to be able to launch an AWACS and a tanker that look remarkably like the E2 and S3.
F-35s should be stealth imo, more missiles doesn't make the plane better, it's taking away its biggest advantage.
I think a mix would be more realistic, and advanced guard of fully stealth and than a tot alpha strike of the Super Hornets and escorting F-35's.
by that point, might as well run F/A-18E/F with EA-18G support
Murder Lightning config seems to be the way to go on the defensive. On the attack, stealth config seems to be superior. There's no hard-and-fast configuration that is excellent in every situation.
i dont know whats more entertaining, watching the sim or listening to caps reactions to narrow misses
The prevaling thought is that the F-35s would go in Stealth config until the air defense is dealt with. However if this is a surprise attack to take out Fujian, my thought would be you could send 4 of the 35s in Stealth configuration to take out the AWACS. They would be ahead of the attack wave by about 150 nautical miles. They take out the AWACS. The J-15s would immediately scramble but they wouldn't have the AWACS support. They would then have to rely on their own radars, the S-400 radar and the ship radar to find the Super bugs and the rest of the F-35s that are in murder configuration.
I would also think that the F-35s would come in from a different vector than the F-18s as well. Same range, different angle coming in. This means the J-15s have to spread out to target both threats. That means they can't just ripple the PL-15s into the straight line of death coming in. For sake of ease, just have the LHA at like 30 degrees difference to the main attack run. 2 vectors. I bet you they get through or have a fighting chance of doing so.
i agree that simulation was just too easy for the red side
I agree too. F35s would always be in stealth config. It's their biggest advantage.
Why would there be no jet patrol in the skies for the AWACs? Why would there be no secondary AWAC in reserve? Internet tacticans like to imagine fighting against morons.
Also low radar return does not mean no return, radar can still see stealth jets at close range.
@@lolasdm6959 because this is considered a surprise attack over their own homeland. That AWACS is flying over the mainland next to a base with J-15s armed and ready along with the S-400 site and a radar picket from destroyers. There wouldn't be a need for a jet patrol with it.
And yes low observable does mean it can be seen. But which is the closer range? The detectable range it can be seen on radar? Or the range of the Aim 120 D. My bet is on the bvr missile.
@@CombatIneffective What? The entire war is about being attacked across the entire Chinese coastline. Enemy aircrafts are within range of your valuable assets and you expect the Chinese commanders to be all brain dead? Oh yeah surely the enemy would never try to do any sneaky attacks. Yeah just have zero reserves, and no air patrol.
To launch a BVR missile, the second you opened your launch bay the enemy will have a large radar return on your EXACT location.
To even enter within range of a BVR attack, you already entered into detectable range, the enemy already know you exist in that general direction. BVR attack is within 150km, that is quite enough distance for detecting a stealth jet. A radar showing an object the size of a hummingbird flying above the open ocean isn't tricking anyone with half a braincell.
I think if the f 35s were in stealth, the Americans would have done better
51:15 this kind of reaction are one of the reasons I like this channel.
Also, a diversionary attack by the US may have worked well, the primary aim of a diversionary attack is to force your enemy to commit its reserve, either to counter the diversionary attack or to backfill the initial responders.
Listening to the GR banter before the battle is always fun lol
It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi. The LRASM can be deployed from both the F-35 and the F-18. Apparently LRASMs have also been launched from the B1B Lancer, and even from the P-8 Poseidon! Apparently the LRASM weighs 2,500 lb (1,100 kg), in air-launch configuration, per Wikipedia, anyway. While a Superhornet may struggle to carry such a missile that range, a B1B certainly would not.
Great job! I really appreciate the work you all are putting into improving these simulations. 🙂
1/ PLAN DDs should be mobile on a roving station. Mini-racetracks.
2/ AShM strike against PLAN DDs.
3/ SEAD/HARM strike against S-400 even if it's just to keep them busy and drain their counter-fire.
RE - USMC, they're often considered to be the "poor cousin" of the branches (not sure if they're still technically "owned" by the USN) and their testing requirements (ASVAB) are lower than some other branches - ie. minimum score requirements by service, USAF 36, Army 31, USGC 40, USMC 32, USN 35. These numbers change over time.
Marines are also rumored to eat a lot of crayons.
But marines are known as the strongest and toughest
I'd like to see tham add the F-15EX. Carrying 22 AAMs including 20 AIM 120-D seems like it could be a game changer in these mass missile exchanges.
Another awesome video, but a bit of mix feelings as Shanghai is my birth city. I need to point out glaring issue is Shanghai harbour is full of skyscrapers, the entire city of 21 million ppl mostly lives in high rise buildings. Those low flying cruise missile would have hit multiple buildings before they even reach it.
Whats crazy is the same scenarios are being played out at the 25th Intelligence Squadron (25 IS) at Hurlburt Field, By integrating all-source intelligence and electronic combat capability for special operations forces (SOF), the 25 IS has made their unique intelligence resources integral to SOF mission planning, rehearsal, and execution...
"Born Under Fire"
I mean there is a pretty clear issue with the HHQ-9 Targeting the cruise missiles. They are all targeting one missile and all the destroyers are launching 100s of missiles targeting one cruise missile. The moment the target is destroyed all the airborne HHQ-9s just self destruct (as you can see on the map for a split second)
An attack on a Chinese CV would be a combined arms excercise, so you would have B1's, B-52s, B2's, F-35 and F-22s.
This would also be the sort of scenario where an re-fitted 747 with an revolver looking carousel based in it's interior firing AIM-120D en masse just like the TU-95.
Agreed, to pull off a strike on such a target we really would be pulling out all the stops and have it timed perfectly using decoys, HARMS, tomahawks, etc
then china should have much more planes than the only 24 J-15B too.
@@bussolini6307 tbh it would be an absolutely massive conflict, so yes, I believe China would have more time so support from multiple air bases, but also I think US would be utilizing Okinawa and Guam too, we also have 20% of our B2s stationed in Australia
@@briana5444 but okinawa and guam bases would probably be hit by chinese missiles and be inoperable
@@bussolini6307 that’s not what his previous simulations showed
Good simulation. Really enjoyed it. One scenario to investigate at some point would be the Rapid Dragon system where large volleys of cruise missles are dropped from cargo planes. How well would it work at overwelming missile defence systems. I am sure DCS can not do Rapid Dragon at this point, but you could simulate from the point after the missiles are dropped.
Actually horrible and very unlikely sim he just makes america look like beginners not doing any of the things the navy would actually do
I wonder if they would launch a couple of flights of B-52s from Guam and Okinawa with those heavier missiles you mentioned with a far off launch, with the F-35s and Bogs providing area defence and auxiliary attack. Maybe B-2s if not 52s.
This is what I was going to say. If they are that dead set on the attack, and that close to Japan and Okinawa, i would think they would include cruise missiles and/or TALDs from B-2s/52s.
"All taxiways should be afterburner friendly." This is exactly why I keep watching your vids Cap.🤣
Great work Cap & Crew! ☺
I called it from the start, as you hadn't provided a US AWACS. That gave the Chinese the ability to attack the bombers immediately, thus removing the F-35's already handcuffed (having too low fuel for evasion) position. 😉
Also, the bombers never would have gone in 1 to 2 at a time. It is totally the inverse of saturation. 😉
Really do enjoy watching all of these. Cheers 🤗 for your guys' hard work, love & determination, as well as the humor. ☺
We poke fun at the Jarheads because - well, they're Jarheads. They poke fun at use dog faces. It's like teasing your siblings, it's a family thing. And we all poke fun at the Donald Duck navy.
In real life, the Marines got a big boost by a book "Guadalcanal Diary" during WWII. It gave the Marines a mythos. So, the Marines think they won the war in the Pacific with their six divisions (and the American public bought that story).
Something to consider for the murder lightnings, would sacrificing 2 amram delta's for 2 drop tanks be worth while since you've all ready got the compromised RSC and usually being launched from carrier's and needing to cover long distances. I don't know if it's modelled to carry them in game but I think it would be worth while
As yet there are no external tanks for the F-35.
Can you do the F35s fly in stealthily and drop bombs on the carrier?
Problem is ship radar spot stealth at about 20-30 miles.
@@grimreapers what about 6 or 8 bugs with HARMS nap of the earth overwhelm the S400 with another 4 to 6 F35s also attacking the S400. 4 to 6 F35s go after the AWACS the rest of the F35s go for the Fighters and the rest of the bugs are split between the Carrier and the Frigates
@@grimreapers all TOT already airborne and refueled Alpha strike
Thanks for the hard work putting this together, as well as with the mods yall are doing to bring modernized weapons to the sim. One thing to note is that, technically, you only used half of the Reagan's Hornets. Reagan has 4 Hornet squadrons of 12 planes a piece, not counting the Growlers. 24 more Super Hornets, loaded out in murder configuration, would have picked up the missile slack and allowed the F-35s to maintain stealth configuration. IRL, those Lightnings would also data link with Hornets, giving an even better chance of good target solutions.
But I get it, there are limitations on what the server can do, and what you guys can model in game. Excellent work!
I love it. It's like Top Gear/Myth Busters meets DCS
your commentary is what makes these videos amazing and fun to watch
19:12 best description I've heard in a long time
I think the Hornets would still carrying 2 AIM-9 Super Snake on the wing tips for self defense. That would be more realistic. But that´s just a tiny detail.
AIM-9 Super Snake?
@@fqeagles21 sorry, the correct term is AIM-9X Super Snake. It´s the actual modern version of the Sidewinder.
So it's the name for AIM-9X Block II/III??
@@fqeagles21 nope it’s still called sidewinders
@@fqeagles21 I´m just a little combat medic, not a specialist on fighter jets, so i´m not sure if they are the same, sorry about that.
Cant believe you actually did the video! You amazing guys! Such a hard work behind this things. Iam so glad that I found your channel guys! :D Keep up the good work! (Please, if you can fix something, than it would be the Type 45 Destroyers and their missiles. The SM2 is close and similar to the Aster 15 and 30 but it would be nice to see the different missiles for the UK side. Aster 15 close range Aster 30 long range Aster 30 block 1NT 150+ range. If you guys can make this work, that would be awesome, and I believe it can be actuallly better than the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.) (Also, you mentioned you dont want to watch and wait until they finish the refueling of 60+ aircraft. Then lets spawn them closer and already in the sky, assuming they just got refueled and ready to fly towards their target.) And you know what? These American cruise missiles are devastating. Holy s..... That many missiles can take out a whole Russian Carrier Group without any problems whatsoever. Why the S400 fired late? In my opinion because of the crusie missile low visibility, line of sight and the cruise missile own jamming system. This new cruise missile what you made is awesome man. It is as good as the Russian ones. Cant wait for the new Carrier Group vs Carrier Group fights!
Well, according to what I read from China military forum, Type 03 will be equipped not only with J-15, but also J-35; or the Navy version of J-31. And because this is China land, the variation of Chinese PLAAF should be more diverse. As they have a combination of J-10 series (A,B, C), J-20, J-16, J-11B, etc. They can also have H-6K / H-6H to bring their own anti ship missile from the sky, while PLANAF can bring JH-7A also to aim for the ships. For J-20, usually they fly in tandem with J-16.
Also, PLAN has only 6 Type 052C Destroyer in their inventory. If this is Chinese CV003, then it will be guarded with Type 055, Type 052D, in tandem with Type 054A for long, medium, short air defense layer for their Aircraft carrier.
48:47 What did you do to those HHQ-9 missiles, they just blast in the air for nothing.
Looks excellent thus far, at the 24 minute mark. You just remarked that the F-35s, because they are not in stealth configuration, could not have gone in early... First, for a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).
as far as Im aware F22s can't reach the chinese mainland from US airbases and would require alot of tanking to keep aloft. This would probably tip the chinese off and cause J20s to get scrabled to go after the tankers.
At that point, The B-2 could just bomb the carrier into dust! wouldn't even worry about the other sites.
@@wolf06291980 Maybe. I'm not sure about the B2, but the B1B only carries 24 x LRASMs, and the B-21 is said to carry 30. You may not make it passed the S-400 with those missiles, much less the destroyers too, without some additional SEAD operations and assets. And the B2 is subsonic, and can be roughly located with a network of several L-band radars, like those on the S-400 and the destroyers. If they can get supersonic fighters airborne, they could overrun the B2. On the other hand, in my plan (I increasingly favor the use of the B1B), we want them to scramble supersonic fighters, because we want the 2nd wave to intercept them, but ideally, we want that to happen after the destroyers are destroyed, perhaps after a few Hornets have also discharged HARMs towards any remaining destroyers and the S-400 and other enemy radars too.
With the B1B, we can come in at 200 feet and Mach 0.96, and then deploy the cruise missiles before we are seen, or at least before they have any hope of an intercept, after which, the F-22s will cover the B1B retreat, which will itself climb, accelerate to Mach 1.25, and make a rapid exfil, while the Chinese jets deployed to hunt it down find themselves running right into the F-22 escorts, and the first F-35s, in stealth configuration, with several in the proverbial "beast mode" following behind, along with the hornets, some of which will be in air to air mode. By the time the interceptors and the 2nd wave from the Navy Carrier meet, the B1B will halfway to Guam. But we want them to notice the B1B, so they will scramble what they have. We want the B1B to lead the strike, so it will be the first thing they see, and so it will have already fired and begun RTB before the Chinese jets get off the runway, ideally.
@@Gabriel_McMillan I agree with your assessment. However, you would change the loadout of the B2 to fit the situation. Rather than using glide bombs that are vulnerable to SAM, I would pick the GBU-37 GPS guided freefall bomb. Or, hell put some dumb slicks on there and carpet the carrier. You aren't shooting those down.
@@wolf06291980 Won't work. You underestimate the S-400 and the Chinese destroyers. You need to launch from hundreds of miles away, and use low-observable munitions, even in the B2. And in the B2, if they can see you on IR sensors, they can shoot you down with a MIG or a destroyer or an S-400 missile which can work with datalinked sensors or that has an IR sensor on the missile. A SU-35 is said to be able to see a stealth aircraft from 30 miles away, using its IRST, and can also see them from a considerable distance with their airborne L-band search radars, and perhaps even to develop a weapons quality track, with only passive sensors, using datalinks to other airborne and ground/sea-based L-band radars, or so I hear, anyway. Using a stealth aircraft to draw the enemy aircraft out to sea sort of defeats the point, if they won't see it until it is almost on top of them. Also, China has very good GPS jamming, which is why the LRASM has a multi-mode seeker.
Good simulation once again. From all the scenarios I've seen looks like the attacker is always at a disadvantage ( which is true in real life I supose ).
Other than that, good to see the AIM120D's and the PL15's working properly finally.
Kinda weird what happened with the dd fired HQ9's in the 2nd simulation tho. You could see them exploding on their own in the air. They basically did nothing.
I love hearing the genuine enthusiasm and excitement in your voice Cap. I hope your doing well.
It will be interesting to see usa fleets evaporates in the pacific
Can you post the image you found of the AGM-86 on a bog?
Awesome sim CAP!!!! Love the naval sims!! Try some tomahawks too, it would be fun to see them integrated!
Nice! Very well done! Love me some super hornets kinda realistic! You should have the G hornets too though. I guess that would crash your server?
That was very interesting and totally entertaining! Loved it. Thanks.
It is obvious that the positioning of the S-400 was not optimal. If they had line of sight to the sea I think they would perform better.
Interesting video, I have some issues though, one critique of the specific strategy, and then a general critique of the battleplan. For fleet defense, murder Lightnings seems reasonable, but for an attack, I think they'd be in full stealth mode. That's kinda what they were made for, penetrating enemy air defenses undetected. Which leads me to my more general critique. I don't think this is at all how the US would do a counterstrike. For one thing, no Tomahawks were fired, and I can pretty much guarantee the Burkes and Ticos of 7th fleet would send out an enormous wave of Tomahawks. Secondly, assuming the Air Force doesn't get involved and it's just F-35s available, the F-35s would do the initial strike. The F/A-18s would not be sent on a mission where they'd be that vulnerable. This is the kind of mission the F-35 was designed for. The F-35s and the Tomahawks would probably mostly be focused on the air defenses. A couple F-35s would be tasked with taking out the AWACs, the rest would be packing JDAMs, JSOWs or SDBs to finish off the S-400 site, and air base after the Tomahawks went in. You could also arm some F-35s with laser guided bombs to hit the destroyers, but they could probably be left for the follow on strike. That's when the Hornets launch with a mix of SLAM-ERs and Harpoons to take out the destroyers and the Type 003. Also, I believe the nickname for the Super Hornet is the "Rhino", not the "Super Bug".
Shanghai harbor has hundreds, if not thousands of cargo ships parked offshore. Nobody knows which one's, if any, are armed. Imagine what would happen if 10 percent of them had antiaircraft weapons on board
Shanghai does not have a military airfield but the near by Jiaxing city about 100km away does have a airbase with flankers.
DCS has some limitations, but wouldn't the US use the LRASM against something like this? The super Hornet can carry 4 and the F-35, 2 in stealth configuration
45:50 use a bigger plane?
B 52's with tankers to get those off?
Very nice video !!
The airwing usually disembarks from the carrier when it comes into port (so they can do training flights independently of the ship), so the airwings could have been in play. The Aegis boats could have brought gas turbine generators online and the radars too so all of them should have been fighting. They are usually left off in port so people can do maintenance but could be brought up quickly (easily within ten minutes). You act like the mach 4 missiles would have been a hard SM-2/6 target, but they can his mach 12 IRBMs, so the YJ's wouldn't be that hard.
I have not yet watched this entire video, but I just wanted to say this while I'm thinking about it.
US destroyers and cruisers have cruise missiles. In this scenario, we would use them, especially if we thought we needed to overwhelm the Chinese defenses to hit the target(s). Given it's the 7th fleet, with a lot of destroyers, there would be quite a lot of cruise missiles. In addition, I have not looked, but it may be that we now have our newer missiles on our destroyers/cruisers.
I know that DCS does not have subs, but it sure would be nice if it did because that would certainly be a game changer (yes, pun intended).
I really need to make time for this game and buy a new flight control system. I can certainly afford it, and I'm a good pilot.
Keep up the great work guys. Love all your videos (and I'm a little jealous of the fun you have - both playing them and creating them).
One problem is it's not likely that the F-18s would have been sent out without a couple long range amram and a couple sidewinder. even f it limited antiship missles.
Those cruise missiles zipping by is really cool!
Is the AGM-154A JSOW modeled in game? It has a 70 mile range from a high altitude release and the F-35 can carry them internally. Maybe stealth configured F-35s could get close enough to launch them? especially if they came in from the north bypassing the ships.
where can i download the type003 carrier?
This goes both ways. China is more likely to have massive numbers of cruise missiles to overwhelm American defenses to sink one US carrier. They will launch hundreds, if not thousands at once.
Hi cap. From Wiki. in 2015 the US Navy and USAF have in antiship role the AGM-158C LRASM. 2018 integrated on Super Hornet and B-1B. It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi (560 km; 350 mi). That was base on AGM-158 JASSM (cruise missile) with range JASSM: 370 km (230 mi) and JASSM-ER: > 925 km (575 mi) .
In that shot _welcome to GR thumbnail_
why does the right vert stab on both F-35's go straight up while the left vert stabs are canted like on the real F-35?
If you run this again, have refueling drones at optimal locations. Break the attack up into several groups that approach from different headings. Having one long single line of aircraft makes it optimal for missiles. If a pl15 loses lock on one, it can easily pick up a lock on others.
The RCS of the F-35 should be .05 not 0.5. Also, how can the J-15 detect stealth aircraft beyond 20 miles?
The B-2 was currently tested with the JAASM-ER anti ship missiles for making the B-2 a really deadly ship hunter , and if they actually use this duo, the Chineese won't even know what hit them....😏.... And I really think this would probably be primarily an USAF mission, while the Navy would play the Escort for the bombers.... Using FA 18s armed fully with Air to Air missiles, a few EA-18s (To help the B-2 by blinding the Chineese SAMS) , and a few F 35s (mostly for SIGNIT or ISR roles)....
Most of the stuff you can’t find 3D models for are actually modeled in a roblox game called neo warfare
Thank you Grim Reapers for the interesting content and scenarios. Has your channel ever done a simulation of a clash where China carries out a pre-emptive strike on the US bases in the Philippines? It would be fascinating to see how the country would fare in a scenario like that. And added to the mix is a QRF from Japan to augment the less sophisticated air force jets in the existing inventory. It's also plausible that the hypersonic missiles would be employed to take out the runways and other early warning facilities. The scenarios you post are always interesting. More power to your channel.
Grim, China has two S-400 batteries. One is deployed in Bejing and the other is deployed in Tibet with the one in Tibet likely only partially operational due to Russia not fulfilling their contract following the invasion of Ukraine. Most of the SAM systems along the Chinese coast are HQ-9A/B & HQ-12 with the occasional HQ-16 or mobile SHORAD regiments like the HQ-64 which generally sit around airfields. I've been mapping Chinese SAMs & EW radars with open-source satellite imagery.
This fight really had me sitting on the edge of my seat at times.
I enjoyed this very much. Thanks for all the hard work Cap and remember, the wife is always right.
In real life though, as seen time and time again and again, a Cbinese war ship will dog and shadow any US carrier fleet whenever it is in the western pacific. Not to mention they have that fishing trawler fleet acting as their eyes.
The Chinese will definitely know if the US is launching a surprise attack on them.
The opposite too
This is way to close for a surprise attack.
@@lolasdm6959 Yes, at under 500miles thats suicidally close for a US carrier group to be to the chinese mainland. Land based antiship missiles will come into play at this range
@@hughmungus2760 Not even just anti ship missiles, the massive amount of old jets converted into drones woud also play into the scernario.
Excellent work gang, ur really getting good at this! Also what F35 is this and how do I get me hands on it?
I agree with Simba, a Nimitz can throw aircraft into the air pretty quick. If they are prepped for an Alpha Strike, the carrier is emptied fast. Early October 200, it was mind boggling to see three carrier launching on Afghanistan.
Could you guys do something like a Malta Class Carrier (the never built UK equivalent of the Midway Class) with a squadron of Buccaneers and Phantoms in a Falklands 1982 war scenario? (maybe 2x of them, 4x were planned and by 82 3x would likely still be in service) Maybe do an alternate first strike attack on the port Stanley runway, as with these carriers around with Buccaneers, it would likely mean that the Vulcans would either not considered or be simply put on standby.
Because its a big what if, I guess the closet thing you could model in terms of carrier capability would be a Midway class with modded F18.
On another news, Turkiye's Baykar (producer of Bayraktar) just unveiled their first fighter drone. Working codenamed Kizilelma (Red Apple).
oooo cool
Honestly guys im loving watching these. Wish there were more support aircraft out there though
Honestly, I think the planes need to show up about 5 minutes after a massive Tomahawk attack. That way the defense has depleted/scattered its resources on the cruise missiles before you guys showed up.
Interesting
I was thinking similar. You'd launch the tomahawks to strike first that would also possibly cause their fighters to scramble and waste fuel.
A Gen-X TALD feint before the planes cone through
Loved the video @Grim Reapers! Can't wait for the next video man! This whole Scenario was basically giving me "Doolittle Raid 2: Electric Boogaloo" Vibes. The Ronald Reagan-Subclass of the Nimitz-class Aircraft Carriers was the Design Testbed for the Island Structure placement that you see on America's Newer Gerald R. Ford-class Aircraft Carriers. As for London having 1 Ship that's completely useless at defending it, Would you be Talking about The Town-class, Edinburgh-group Light Cruiser HMS Belfast by chance? If so, then from you good sir *I demand Satisfaction* LMAO!
I'm wondering if you guys have ever done any World War Two period Naval Engagements in DCS Before? I think a Few Good ones to look up are the November 1st to 2nd, 1943 Night Battle of Empress Augusta Bay and the December 26th, 1943 Night Battle of North Cape would prove interesting to look at to say the least.
Given the carrier isn't moving and can be considered a big floating building, are there any munitions in game that would normally be better suited toward static targets you could use that would have a longer range? Seems like you could almost haul a bunch of MRBMs onto the flight deck and light them up at once if you wanted to obliterate a ship in harbour.
The USA is a big mouth, in Vietnam war, the USA faced an army without no an air force, the USA lost 58,000 soldiers, and another 300,000 American soldiers wounded.
CVN-71 is the USS Theodore Roosevelt, 4th in the Nimitz-class of US carriers.
Not having far to go favored the defense greatly.
The JASSM/LRASM do have stealth capabilities and would've been perfect for a mission like this.
Once you guys get the JASSM/LRASM up and running, you should do this scenario again with USAF bombers kicking things off from afar and then have the Navy follow up.
Thank you cap I remember asking for this on that video!
thx Juan
Just had a though, I am calling "buddy stealth" The idea is that you take a stealth aircraft like the f-22 and pair it up with something like an f-16. You put the f-16 behind the f-22 in-between it and a radar looking for the f-16. The stealth of the f-22 hides it from the radar and the f-16 is behind it, so the radar cant see past the raptor and the f-16 goes unseen.
Might work IF you knew exactly where any and every radar was
No if you do that the enemy will just see the F-22, stealth does not mean zero radar return. Plus there are several radars from nearly every direction so you get busted very fast.
@@lolasdm6959 china can't shoot down a f-22 lmao.
@@III1IlIIlIllIl You can, you only need to find and then get close to it. Stealth fighters will have radar returns, espeacially on long wave radars.
It should be noted the US is aware of fuel issue and the F-35A and C will receive a new engine as part of the Block IV upgrade that will increase range by 20% and thrust by 15%. The next gen adaptive cycle engines will go to USAF NGAD and the USN F/A-XX. Which should see increases approaching 50% range and 25% thrust, when compared to the F-22 and F-35. There is also a plan to create a new type of larger and stealthier drop tank for 5th and 6th gen fighters.
Where's the cruse missile from the ships? (Destroyer & Cruisers)
Cap, to conserve fuel couldn't you kept the carrier in closer or were you already too close to Chinese teritory?
I'd like to see a wave of stealth F-35's go in as the spearhead of the attack.
I love these things, thanks for the hard work.
Side note as a Navy guy, my boring example: One Virginia class sub launches 6 Tomahawks, 4 Harpoons and then disappears back into the stealth of the ocean. The end.
10 missiles probably won't do alot, they'd be pretty easy to stop for such a heavy defense.
@@hughmungus2760 It's all about the surprise. Without an air or surface contact they'll be questioning what they are seeing. By the time they do see it, analyze and approve to fire it's to late. Keep in mind all of these battles are brute force, wars is eminent posture, full radar and everyone at their battle station. I'm suggesting the black stealth of night, unexpecting, watch standers to afraid to wake up the fire control officer.
@@_mysilentblue2227 In this scenario china is already at war with the US and everyone would be on high alert. any group of unidentified signatures approaching would be considered hostile
The US is currently rolling out the AIM-260, which are believed to have twice the range as the 120Ds so for a strike like this, I am sure they'd used those instead (F-35s).
I think attacking all in one would have easily failed. The F-35 is designed to be used in it's stealth configuration until the US military achieves air superiority. Neutralize the enemy airfield, take out the Chinese AWACS and then go for hold. It should only take a few air frames to achieve this, given proper armaments.
The downside you'd have is China would be watching the US fleet closely (this I have no idea) with probably more AWACS or other means. Once you achieve air superiority (No enemy fighters, you'll always have to contend with Surface to Air) then the US easily dominates. Apart from that, awesome video as per usual mate. :)
Really enjoying the War Games series but I was almost shouting at my screen when I realised how you were using the F35s in this battle. The F35 was borne of the Joint Strike Fighter program...and the clue's in the name. It'd be interesting to see if F35s in a stealth config would be able to get close enough to hit the Chinese carrier, as I think that's closer to how they'd be used IRL. The Super Bugs could then be used tin "Murder" config to keep the Chinese fighters busy.
The Grim Repers' version of "topless" pics is flying in formation sans canopies.
I agree maybe the first wave of f-35s being in stealth configuration, but also more interestingly I think you could add a joint venture to this from the US Air Force, and have some raptors and some strike eagles that got midair refueled close by and are joining in on the strike, And it would give the human something to fly besides just f-35s. I would think a handful of raptors in a handful of strike eagles with some kind of standoff cruise missiles or glide bombs could really be the difference in this fight.
f-22+ f35 combo would be a killer. Problem IRL is ofc, that f-35 has designed to be hundreds, maby thousands (like f-16 for example), and/but f-22 are built only 127 (at least in paper..) planes in whole world. Here in Finland I truly wonder if f-35 could be used with swedish Gripen E. (or C, why not) that could also be interesting possible "nordic" combination (F35´s in norway and Finland + gripen+global eye from swedish airforce...)
@@lasselahti4056 good point, and add to that how many are down for maintenance or major repairs, even having enough qualified pilots could be a factor.
I would hope they would be in strategic locations for air alert though, like in this scenario maybe in Korea, Japan, or Philippines doing rotations. With enough heads up and coordination with the navy in this scenario, even just 4 planes added to the mission could make a large difference if utilized properly, especially if augmented with some more 4th gen fighters from the air force side of the house like f15, f16.
I think the F35 has the ability to significantly increase the capability of any fighter force if they can use data link to be the eyes and ears of the whole force while being at significantly less risk due to their stealth.
The best part of these videos is your excitement lol
Hey cap great simulation and video, I have a question, how did you get the all the super hornet pylons to work? 15:06 thx cap always prove seeing your vids
Awesome vid but why use a 35 in Murder Confing???
In real life I suspect that there would be lots cruise missiles from surface ships (& possibly submarines) as well. And maybe have subs take out the Chicom DDs
Navy would most likely first send out their Ohio SSGNs and fire their Tomahawks (144 missiles each)
@@cyronader As part of pre-war lead-up I would make sure a SSGN & a SSBN were seen in different ports in the general area. And I would have about 3 more of each that were not seen.
where I can find this aim 120-d mod?
I didn;t like the public one so just ended up making my own,.
@@grimreapers can you share it? ;)
Hey Cap do you think the U.S. would only send one ore even two Carrier strike groups? Or do you think they would come with a collision of Multiple strike groups from all different countries? Can you not run a Strike of that size on your Server?
The banter in this one was everything.