My first ever wargame, and to this day I still think it can give more modern games a run for their money. The first time I ever played it (as the USN), thanks to amazing luck with the die, I give my opponent such a hammering, he never played another wargame with me, from that day to this. But it did set me off collecting board games. Yaquinto's C.V. is also Midway, it's much more involved and detailed, and lasts several hours, but for sheer enjoyment, I think Midway's simplicity beats it. Good video guys!
sadly that can happen with newer gamers...they feel lost or blame the dice etc...i played against 4 friends and they were all experienced and we had a blast trashing each other great times!
If you ever played Milton Bradley’s “Battleship” game, then you could play this game. The search mechanics were identical. In fact it didn’t take much genius to design this game. I played it a couple of time in the mid-70’s and realized how juvenile the game was. Never opened it again.
Well, yes, it is a simple game, but those were simpler times. Commercial wargaming had only been around for a few years at that point, so there wasn't the sophistication that came along with later designs.
remember buying this from local hobby store! i was 14 in 64 and loved ww2 especially pacific! now does this come with the simulator or do you have to download it from another site? just one minor correction..the japanese carriers did not have their decks loaded with aircraft ready to takeoff..the movie midway perpetrates that myth started by Fucida of all people! there were zero fighters recycling to combat the torpedo attacks..the hangar decks were loaded with aircraft and bombs, torpedoes etc...love that people still have fun with these old classics! quite possible the telling your opponent you are readying aircraft may be a hat tip to Capt Miles Browning (halsey chief of staff on loan to spruance) who advised spruance if he lauched when he did he might catch the Japanese exactly how they found them! sorry when i get to taling with others about such topics i kinda get long winded.. tks!
@@LegendaryTactics yea just started a game of Midway with longtime friend on Vassal..got lucky and he lost track of my IJN forces...hope to hit him on morn of june 4..
I still have my physical copy of AH-Midway. I also use both Vassal and TableTop Simulator for mainly ALL of my wargaming these dayz... (I have a War at Sea Solo TTS video posted, if anyone is interested)
Did you guys ever get round to playing Bismarck? it would be fun to watch you play both Avalon Hill versions if available, and then letting us know your opinions of them, plus which version was your favourite.
We are playing it right now, actually, in a PBEM format. I'm hoping you will actually find it fun to watch when we're done because there is a neat twist involved
@@LegendaryTactics Is it the 1962 or 1978 version you're playing? And yes, I can absolutely guarantee you, I'm going to find it fun no matter which version you're playing.
We've also improved our production values since this video was made, right towards the beginning of our channel when we were new at this. I would actually like to remake this video sometime, in a manner less jarring.
@@LegendaryTactics it may be just me, but the really pixely text and "spinny whizzy stuff" make me feel a bit nauseous. But I'm struggling though as It's lovely to see folk exploring these old games from my past..
The Japanese could not have bombed San Francisco from Midway. The invasion of Midway was supposed to be a set piece battle for IJN, designed by Yamamoto to lure out the three remaining USN CVs (aircraft carriers) in the Pacific, as well as what was left of the American Pacific Fleet in Hawaii so that they could be destroyed. This would have given the IJN a free hand in the Pacific for at least the rest of 1942. It did not go as planned, because US Naval intelligence broke Japanese codes and was aware the operation was taking place. So the USN set a trap from the IJN. In the ensuing battle the USN was able to sink 4 of Japan's fleet carriers--all of which had participated in the raid at Pearl Harbor. The real significance of this battle was that it was a "turning point" in the naval war of the Pacific because, while Japan still had Fleet Carriers that had not participated at Midway, a significant portion of the IJN's CV fleet, pilots, and aircraft maintenance crew were destroyed. In addition the IJN had been checked for the first time during the war, and had been weakened enough that Imperial Japan could no longer openly pursue all of it's goals in the Pacific Ocean. It also set the stage for the United States to engage in the Guadalcanal campaign, which probably would not have been possible if the 4 IJN Fleet Carriers that were sunk at Midway were still available to the IJN. Basically, like I said above, the Battle of Midway was really the pivot point of the Second World War in the Pacific... after Midway Imperial Japan would find itself in the position of having to react to the actions of the United States Armed Forces in the Pacific rather than vice versa. In the final analysis though, it was a really terrible plan on the part of Yamamoto. The USN was not actually required to respond as Yamamoto had thought (if the IJN had managed to achieve the surprise they were counting on), because Midway was a pointless target for Japan to invade. Had the Japanese landed there, virtually nothing would be in range of Japanese bombers, but Midway would be in range of American B-17s stationed in Hawaii. On top of that, as soon as the IJN fleet left the area the Japanese occupation force would have been isolated and around 1,000 miles away from the nearest Japanese supply source. In other words, any Japanese soldiers on Midway would soon find themselves completely isolated, starving, without a good source of fresh water, and constantly harassed by American heavy bombers.
this is awesome to watch as I used to like this game much but only played it a few times. I am not an expert but a couple of points. the ships where spread to much. For the Japanese, every one of the non-carriers at start is there to guard the carriers. The Japanese should probably be one stack of all ships at start ships or two stacks of 2 carriers each. Likewise, every American non-carrier is there to put up flak to protect the carriers. And in the air attacks, attacking the carriers is all that matters... except for the trick of putting a few planes on a cruiser because if it uses its screen to help the carrier its screen value is one. I found the readying of carriers and the launching of CAP very awkward. it would be handled much smoother today. CAP should be able to go up and stay up. and then a counter for every carrier with a side that states armed on one side or not armed on the other would be a better way to go. And just for historical reference... except for midway's factors, each of those plane strength points is 3 planes
A comment on the bombing of California; Midway to the US coast is an 11 000km return trip. Which is way outside the (combat) range of any Japanese medium bomber. I think the idea of attacking Midway was to try to draw the US carriers into a battle where they could be overwhelmed and sunk? i.e. Japan takes the island by surprize. The US organizes a response and is brought to battle on Japanese terms.. Also a mid Pacific base is pretty handy for anyone. Especially as a long range seaplane base.
That is correct. The purpose was to capture Midway by surprise and then sink the US carriers when they came north (from Hawaii) to oppose the Japanese presence there. It was primarily about sinking the USA carriers. But the USA had broken the Japanese codes and knew when the Japanese were coming...........therefore the US carriers were already in place, waiting to ambush the Japanese carriers once they arrived to hit Midway. The Japanese plan was a good one...except that they didn't know their codes had been broken! It was code-breaking that made the American victory possible. This was something the Japanese had no way of preparing for.
Played dozens of MW games back in late 60s............ US player should never divide their flee....... Keeping all 11 ships together was key to surviving the IJN air attacks. Also, the USA player wasn't transferring his fighters to the fleet immediately.
@@LegendaryTactics Yes, whenever I played the US side, I readied planes on the 1st turn & on 2nd turn flew the MW Ftrs to 1 of the 3 fleet carriers & flew equivalent # of DB squadrons back to MW. Crucial to have as much CAP (combat air patrol) above the US fleet as possible. Then on the 1st turn of US DB attack on IJN fleet, the remaining sqdns on MW are flown to the fleet to replace the lost DBs and-or TBs. MW at the beginning of the game is in effect a stationary carrier.
LT i learned to pronounce the Japanese Carriers of Kido Butai from the movie The Final Countdown.. ie Kaga...Kogn na... Akagi.. A kongn na...so i go with that lol
Fortunately I have lived in Japan and am reasonably fluent - it seems like you are describing the Kanto/Tokyo accent. Even though it is obviously a common one, I prefer the accent in the south, where I lived. There you would pronounce those names exactly as spelled and no one would think any different.
@@LegendaryTactics tks for that buddy! i forgot about dialects and accents...i do like the ones I heard spoken in The Final Countdown...I loved Japan! but no long enough as I was passing through on way to Viet Nam...what do you think?
I'm not sure about the Japanese Airplane ranges ? By taking Midway they would gain the AIRFIELD(s) (they could have enlarged it -based as many planes as possible there, etc.) ! The "MAVIS" a 4-engine flying boat search plane based there could make it to Pearl and back keeping track of Allied ships there on a daily basis ( and doesn't need any expansion - based in water) ! Saburo Sakai flew his ZERO from Formosa to Clark Field in the Phillipines on the 1st day of the war and BACK ( I think it was over 1,100 miles ?) ! If they put 100's of attack planes there and could reach Pearl to attack the ships there (another Pearl Harbor Surprise Attack) the US ships would be forced back to the West Coast a long way and then Pearl would fall to the Japanese and WW2 there would be many years longer !!!
I know its been a while since this was played, but I have a question. Why would you have to announce weather or not you are readying your aircraft to the other player. Makes no sense to me as this is information that you would not have.
Funny enough, I just came across my hard copy today, so your timing is perfect! I think there are two main reasons for it. 1) It adds some tension and excitement in the game if your opponent readies their planes and you still have no idea where they are. You just know that an attack is imminent and they may have tracked you down. 2) the game also tried very hard to simulate real combat. So, in the basic rules, they acknowledge that there was very little sea to sea combat, so it's all planes unless you invoke the tournament rules. I gather they were trying to make it feel as if you needed a turn to get ready before you could attack to make it feel more real. The reason you would announce it to the opponent for realism is that the enemy would likely have networks of communications that would intercept chatter, spot a surveillance plane, or get a sense that an attack is coming. Overall, I like that they've done this because it gives you more decisions to make, since you make yourself vulnerable to attack if you have fueled planes on deck.
@@LegendaryTactics I've had this game since the late 1970's. I think it might have been my third Avalon Hill game. You video has caused me to pull it off the shelf and take a new look at it.
@@mecallahan1 There must be a reason you kept it around all these years. I certainly have good memories of the game system. It was pretty unique in its day.
It was a great little game for its time and even now. There were some early computer versions of it too which really caught my attenuation. War games don't need to be complex to be good.
Some cheating going on? (1) At 11:12 the Japanese ships move. At 15:40 the Americans search. At18:53 the Japanese choose whether to search or not, and decline. The Americans then take their first move at 20:18, knowing the positions of two Japanese carriers! The American ships should have moved at the same time as the Japanese ships moved. (2) At 30:10 Th Japanese search F3 and the American announces that there are ships present when in fact the square is empty (the ships are in G3g). After that I gave up watching.
Sorry to hear you had to give up on it. This was a very early video of ours - at the time, we were re-learning the game, as well as getting to know Tabletop Simulator. It was a lot for our small minds to keep track of :)
We have moved to include a lot "analog" stuff now, but the reality is that we live reasonably far apart from each other, so digital is typically the only option. Flash, for example, lives almost 3 hours drive away from myself and Cax, so if we are going to game, the only practical solution is digital, unfortunately. We hope you will stick around for our analog stuff, at least!
Just started a game with my grandpa today, he's still got the physical copy from when he was my age
You're Grandpa sounds like a cool guy. That's awesome that you can connect that way.
My first ever wargame, and to this day I still think it can give more modern games a run for their money.
The first time I ever played it (as the USN), thanks to amazing luck with the die, I give my opponent such a hammering, he never played another wargame with me, from that day to this.
But it did set me off collecting board games. Yaquinto's C.V. is also Midway, it's much more involved and detailed, and lasts several hours, but for sheer enjoyment, I think Midway's simplicity beats it.
Good video guys!
Thank you! It is a great game for sure!
sadly that can happen with newer gamers...they feel lost or blame the dice etc...i played against 4 friends and they were all experienced and we had a blast trashing each other great times!
If you ever played Milton Bradley’s “Battleship” game, then you could play this game. The search mechanics were identical. In fact it didn’t take much genius to design this game. I played it a couple of time in the mid-70’s and realized how juvenile the game was. Never opened it again.
Well, yes, it is a simple game, but those were simpler times. Commercial wargaming had only been around for a few years at that point, so there wasn't the sophistication that came along with later designs.
remember buying this from local hobby store! i was 14 in 64 and loved ww2 especially pacific! now does this come with the simulator or do you have to download it from another site?
just one minor correction..the japanese carriers did not have their decks loaded with aircraft ready to takeoff..the movie midway perpetrates that myth started by Fucida of all people! there
were zero fighters recycling to combat the torpedo attacks..the hangar decks were loaded with aircraft and bombs, torpedoes etc...love that people still have fun with these old classics!
quite possible the telling your opponent you are readying aircraft may be a hat tip to Capt Miles Browning (halsey chief of staff on loan to spruance) who advised spruance if he lauched when
he did he might catch the Japanese exactly how they found them! sorry when i get to taling with others about such topics i kinda get long winded.. tks!
Thanks for the follow-up Pancake.
@@LegendaryTactics yea just started a game of Midway with longtime friend on Vassal..got lucky and he lost track of my IJN forces...hope to hit him on morn of june 4..
I still have my physical copy of AH-Midway. I also use both Vassal and TableTop Simulator for mainly ALL of my wargaming these dayz... (I have a War at Sea Solo TTS video posted, if anyone is interested)
Sure, post the link!
I have a cardboard copy of the game but it's MIA. I'm searching basements and attics.
I just found my copy! It was buried in the basement! Time to dust that one off again.
Did you guys ever get round to playing Bismarck? it would be fun to watch you play both Avalon Hill versions if available, and then letting us know your opinions of them, plus which version was your favourite.
We are playing it right now, actually, in a PBEM format. I'm hoping you will actually find it fun to watch when we're done because there is a neat twist involved
@@LegendaryTactics Is it the 1962 or 1978 version you're playing? And yes, I can absolutely guarantee you, I'm going to find it fun no matter which version you're playing.
I'd love to see this done on a physical game rather than TTS - which I find quite jarring to look at.
But anyway, carry on gentlemen.
~ smiles ~
We've also improved our production values since this video was made, right towards the beginning of our channel when we were new at this. I would actually like to remake this video sometime, in a manner less jarring.
@@LegendaryTactics it may be just me, but the really pixely text and "spinny whizzy stuff" make me feel a bit nauseous. But I'm struggling though as It's lovely to see folk exploring these old games from my past..
CAP means "Combat Air Patrol".
Thank you for clarifying! We appreciate your input!
The Japanese could not have bombed San Francisco from Midway. The invasion of Midway was supposed to be a set piece battle for IJN, designed by Yamamoto to lure out the three remaining USN CVs (aircraft carriers) in the Pacific, as well as what was left of the American Pacific Fleet in Hawaii so that they could be destroyed. This would have given the IJN a free hand in the Pacific for at least the rest of 1942.
It did not go as planned, because US Naval intelligence broke Japanese codes and was aware the operation was taking place. So the USN set a trap from the IJN. In the ensuing battle the USN was able to sink 4 of Japan's fleet carriers--all of which had participated in the raid at Pearl Harbor. The real significance of this battle was that it was a "turning point" in the naval war of the Pacific because, while Japan still had Fleet Carriers that had not participated at Midway, a significant portion of the IJN's CV fleet, pilots, and aircraft maintenance crew were destroyed.
In addition the IJN had been checked for the first time during the war, and had been weakened enough that Imperial Japan could no longer openly pursue all of it's goals in the Pacific Ocean. It also set the stage for the United States to engage in the Guadalcanal campaign, which probably would not have been possible if the 4 IJN Fleet Carriers that were sunk at Midway were still available to the IJN.
Basically, like I said above, the Battle of Midway was really the pivot point of the Second World War in the Pacific... after Midway Imperial Japan would find itself in the position of having to react to the actions of the United States Armed Forces in the Pacific rather than vice versa.
In the final analysis though, it was a really terrible plan on the part of Yamamoto. The USN was not actually required to respond as Yamamoto had thought (if the IJN had managed to achieve the surprise they were counting on), because Midway was a pointless target for Japan to invade. Had the Japanese landed there, virtually nothing would be in range of Japanese bombers, but Midway would be in range of American B-17s stationed in Hawaii. On top of that, as soon as the IJN fleet left the area the Japanese occupation force would have been isolated and around 1,000 miles away from the nearest Japanese supply source. In other words, any Japanese soldiers on Midway would soon find themselves completely isolated, starving, without a good source of fresh water, and constantly harassed by American heavy bombers.
this is awesome to watch as I used to like this game much but only played it a few times. I am not an expert but a couple of points. the ships where spread to much. For the Japanese, every one of the non-carriers at start is there to guard the carriers. The Japanese should probably be one stack of all ships at start ships or two stacks of 2 carriers each. Likewise, every American non-carrier is there to put up flak to protect the carriers. And in the air attacks, attacking the carriers is all that matters... except for the trick of putting a few planes on a cruiser because if it uses its screen to help the carrier its screen value is one. I found the readying of carriers and the launching of CAP very awkward. it would be handled much smoother today. CAP should be able to go up and stay up. and then a counter for every carrier with a side that states armed on one side or not armed on the other would be a better way to go. And just for historical reference... except for midway's factors, each of those plane strength points is 3 planes
A comment on the bombing of California; Midway to the US coast is an 11 000km return trip. Which is way outside the (combat) range of any Japanese medium bomber.
I think the idea of attacking Midway was to try to draw the US carriers into a battle where they could be overwhelmed and sunk?
i.e. Japan takes the island by surprize. The US organizes a response and is brought to battle on Japanese terms..
Also a mid Pacific base is pretty handy for anyone. Especially as a long range seaplane base.
That is correct. The purpose was to capture Midway by surprise and then sink the US carriers when they came north (from Hawaii) to oppose the Japanese presence there. It was primarily about sinking the USA carriers. But the USA had broken the Japanese codes and knew when the Japanese were coming...........therefore the US carriers were already in place, waiting to ambush the Japanese carriers once they arrived to hit Midway. The Japanese plan was a good one...except that they didn't know their codes had been broken! It was code-breaking that made the American victory possible. This was something the Japanese had no way of preparing for.
Played dozens of MW games back in late 60s............ US player should never divide their flee....... Keeping all 11 ships together was key to surviving the IJN air attacks. Also, the USA player wasn't transferring his fighters to the fleet immediately.
You mean the fighters on Midway?
@@LegendaryTactics Yes, whenever I played the US side, I readied planes on the 1st turn & on 2nd turn flew the MW Ftrs to 1 of the 3 fleet carriers & flew equivalent # of DB squadrons back to MW. Crucial to have as much CAP (combat air patrol) above the US fleet as possible. Then on the 1st turn of US DB attack on IJN fleet, the remaining sqdns on MW are flown to the fleet to replace the lost DBs and-or TBs. MW at the beginning of the game is in effect a stationary carrier.
LT i learned to pronounce the Japanese Carriers of Kido Butai from the movie The Final Countdown.. ie Kaga...Kogn na... Akagi.. A kongn na...so i go with that lol
Fortunately I have lived in Japan and am reasonably fluent - it seems like you are describing the Kanto/Tokyo accent. Even though it is obviously a common one, I prefer the accent in the south, where I lived. There you would pronounce those names exactly as spelled and no one would think any different.
@@LegendaryTactics tks for that buddy! i forgot about dialects and accents...i do like the ones I heard spoken in The Final Countdown...I loved Japan! but no long enough as I was passing through on way to Viet Nam...what do you think?
I'm not sure about the Japanese Airplane ranges ? By taking Midway they would gain the AIRFIELD(s) (they could have enlarged it -based as many planes as possible there, etc.) ! The "MAVIS" a 4-engine flying boat search plane based there could make it to Pearl and back keeping track of Allied ships there on a daily basis ( and doesn't need any expansion - based in water) ! Saburo Sakai flew his ZERO from Formosa to Clark Field in the Phillipines on the 1st day of the war and BACK ( I think it was over 1,100 miles ?) ! If they put 100's of attack planes there and could reach Pearl to attack the ships there (another Pearl Harbor Surprise Attack) the US ships would be forced back to the West Coast a long way and then Pearl would fall to the Japanese and WW2 there would be many years longer !!!
I know its been a while since this was played, but I have a question. Why would you
have to announce weather or not you are readying your aircraft to the other player.
Makes no sense to me as this is information that you would not have.
Funny enough, I just came across my hard copy today, so your timing is perfect! I think there are two main reasons for it. 1) It adds some tension and excitement in the game if your opponent readies their planes and you still have no idea where they are. You just know that an attack is imminent and they may have tracked you down. 2) the game also tried very hard to simulate real combat. So, in the basic rules, they acknowledge that there was very little sea to sea combat, so it's all planes unless you invoke the tournament rules. I gather they were trying to make it feel as if you needed a turn to get ready before you could attack to make it feel more real. The reason you would announce it to the opponent for realism is that the enemy would likely have networks of communications that would intercept chatter, spot a surveillance plane, or get a sense that an attack is coming. Overall, I like that they've done this because it gives you more decisions to make, since you make yourself vulnerable to attack if you have fueled planes on deck.
@@LegendaryTactics I've had this game since the late 1970's. I think
it might have been my third Avalon Hill game. You video has caused
me to pull it off the shelf and take a new look at it.
@@mecallahan1 There must be a reason you kept it around all these years. I certainly have good memories of the game system. It was pretty unique in its day.
This game was a joke. The search phase was taken from the Milton Bradley “Battleship” kids game.
Yes, it was a simple mechanic that way. But it was of its time. There wasn't much like that in 1964.
It was a great little game for its time and even now. There were some early computer versions of it too which really caught my attenuation. War games don't need to be complex to be good.
Some cheating going on? (1) At 11:12 the Japanese ships move. At 15:40 the Americans search. At18:53 the Japanese choose whether to search or not, and decline. The Americans then take their first move at 20:18, knowing the positions of two Japanese carriers! The American ships should have moved at the same time as the Japanese ships moved. (2) At 30:10 Th Japanese search F3 and the American announces that there are ships present when in fact the square is empty (the ships are in G3g). After that I gave up watching.
Sorry to hear you had to give up on it. This was a very early video of ours - at the time, we were re-learning the game, as well as getting to know Tabletop Simulator. It was a lot for our small minds to keep track of :)
Please promise to swear off digital games.
We have moved to include a lot "analog" stuff now, but the reality is that we live reasonably far apart from each other, so digital is typically the only option. Flash, for example, lives almost 3 hours drive away from myself and Cax, so if we are going to game, the only practical solution is digital, unfortunately. We hope you will stick around for our analog stuff, at least!