What Is a Neutral Bonding Screw in a Main or Sub Panel Load Center & Should It Be Used or Removed?
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Let's talk about grounding screws! There are times when they should and should NOT be used. I'll explain where and when to use or remove them.
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Blessings,
Ben
0:00 - Bonding Screws Intro
0:09 - The Wiring Situation
0:32 - The Bonding Screw
1:25 - Leave It In Or Remove It?
1:46 - If You Have A Subpanel Situation
2:29 - Subpanel Inside House
3:08 - Follow This Rule
3:43 - SUBSCRIBE!!!
You are literally the only guy on here that makes this stuff easy to understand and that explains it thoroughly so that there are no questions/doubts. Thanks man!
This fellow got to be the coolest fellow on youtube explaining this type of stuff in such a consise manner and pleasant demeanor. Thank you!
Thanks! Glad it was helpful.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Hello....love your videos very well detailed. Thanks a bunch. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. I have meter box, disconnect and main panel on the same building. If I understood you right. I have to connect disconnect box to grounding rod, then to main panel with bonding screw removed. From main panel I run a grounding wire to ground rod on a separate grounding bar and connect all my ground wire to that bar. Thank you any help will be greatly appreciated.
I totally agree!
Ambiguous answers everywhere I've looked lol. This was nice and short and to the point. Very helpful!
Thank you for a great video Ben. So nice to get the information needed without the hype.
Best videos I ever seeing! Can clearly underhand , he goes to the point on what he is explains, and NOT at all like others that wanted their face to show,more than necessary and leave the content of the video out.
Thanks!!
Great job Benjamin! You didn't tell "why" the bonding screw is to be installed in the main panel. In the main panel, neutral and ground conductors are on the same bars. The issue is that the N bars are insulated by plastic mounting means. So the green screw bonds or grounds the panel can in case of short to the metal can. Sub-panel has ground bar screw mounted to the can, therefore connect to grounding system. Respectfully, Kevin
I like easy fast and efficient information like what you just gave. Straight up without going in circles and loosing attention on the subject! Great job mate! 🤙🏽
Right on - Times 2!
Kudos, Ben. I've watched many too many videos and read many too many texts and you are the one who made it clear to me that a neutral and a ground cannot be connected. Thanks.
"Chuck it in the grove." My man is living that country life. Cicadas buzzing.
Other than calling that first panel a "cut off" I think it's a well explained. For those who want to know why we don't bond (connect) the neutral and ground at other sub panels, it creates what's called a ground loop where you have the possibility of unwanted voltage in the wrong wires, which may false-trip GFIC breakers and interfere with other electronic gear. (that we didn't have 40 years ago) Ground rods (a pair, a minimum of 8 ft apart) get tied in at the first point of disconnect, meaning the first place you find a breaker that shuts off the whole service. Pulling the meter does not count as a point of disconnect, but a meter pan with a breaker does count and will have room for this junction. After that point everything will need to be separated into white and green wires. (or identified with colored tape, shrink wrap, etc) Oh, one more sticking point in the code is about the ground wire being continuous from the main disconnect to the rods. This means one wire WITHOUT any breaks going from the far rod, and through the connection at the closer rod, then onto the bonding point. NOT 2 wires being joined under a ground clamp out in the yard. NOT 2 wires making a home run to the panel. No splices and one wire under one screw / clamp.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I have noticed that the proper term for what I call the "cut off panel" should simply be called a "main disconnect". Wish I could update that in the video somehow.
Thanks again and happy new year!
Ben
Rupe could you explain how when the main ground to pannel breaks that 220 can show up at a 115v outlet. voltage in the home become crazy.
@@mostlikelywedoitservices9743… The problem you mention is not that an outlet will all of a sudden have 220 or 240 volts but it will become unbalanced. The simple explanation is that each outlet is one leg of the 240 (120 each) tied to the neutral. If the neutral is lost at the outlet you can't run the appliance (open circuit) but if the neutral is lost at the entrance panel or the service wire going to the pole (more common) what happens is the power follows the path of least resistance because it has to go somewhere, which is usually back to the panel and to another neutral wire going to another appliance, which may be on the other leg of the 240. Depending on the resistance this voltage could be 150 - 190 on one leg and the balance (up to 240) will show up on the other leg so it will be between 50 - 90 volts on the other leg. IOW, in the most common sense you would notice some bright lights and some dim lights around the house but these days with fancy electronics it's not that simple. Stuff will burn out.
@@rupe53 Thank you for the explaining how and why. I am constantly studying to be more valuable to my customers. Thanks again.
@@mostlikelywedoitservices9743… BTW, what I explained in my last post was a lost neutral and you had asked about a ground, which is different. Most people wouldn't notice it if none of their appliances ever had an issue needing ground. OTOH, because you mentioned the classic high voltage problem I tried to go with what I though you wanted. Hopefully I was correct in my assumption.
Thanks for these videos, I will be adding grounding rods to my subpanel in my remote building.
Great video. I work for a local utility that has many rural horse farms. Every winter we get trouble calls for horses not wanting to drink water due to stray voltage in their tubs which is caused by their heaters. We would get anywhere from 2-6 volts in the water. We always thought it would be a bad neutral or poor grounding conditions somewhere on the property. As it turns out, all of these farms have had sub panels installed that needed their bonding screw removed.
Why only when it’s cold (every winter)??
@Isaiah Corona the hands on the farms place heaters in the horses water trough to prevent it from freezing. Heaters are only needed in the winter.
Great video. If you haven't already, you might want to do another one on why you need to remove the screw. I would suggest starting with how a GFCI works and what leaving the screw in the sub panel will do to the things :)
Explained very well .. thanks Ben ..
Thanks brother. I'm a commercial electrician and was trying to figure out exactly how the residential side does it. Nice explanation!
This video actually answered my questions regarding the neutral and ground in a subpanel box thank you
Another great job explaining what a BONDING SCREW actually does and when you don't use it in a sub-panel. Excellent!!!! And, thank you!
Very clean about the green screw inside the panel 👍 thanks that's what I need to know.
Excellent job, Ben! Thanks for taking the time to make these, and explain them. Very Handy! --God Bless.
very clear explanation on the issue of joining neutral and earth in main panel and their separation in the subpanels
Thank you! Finally the separate ground bar was explained well!
to the point and no bs talk. good job buddy
Thank you for an easy explanation with good visuals!
Great practical stuff I've wondered about but never known where to find out/discuss.
Wow thanks so much for that info. You really helped me out. I’ve done electrical work my whole life but with limited knowledge of how all of the tecchnical stuff works. Im starting to understand more, the older I get.
I am a longtime subscriber and viewer. You're channel is one of my favorites on electricity. I would appreciate your opinion as well as any knowledgeable viewer's opinion on when not to use grounding screw on main first panelboard as I describe in my home. I own an old home that has a main panel inside the house, it's the first and only panel coming from meter. It doesn't have a bonding screw. I was thinking I need to add the bonding screw but then I consulted a book I have and read that the main panel must not use the bonding screw if the breaker or switch is used, such as in a panelboard on the load side. I belive that my panel fits that description because the hot wires from meter go directly into a 100 amp breaker and the neutral from meter goes into lug on the neutral ground bar in panel. The book I got this information from page 93, section Bonding the busbar, in the 45th edition of Wiring Simplified that is based on 2017 NEC code. Author F P Hartwell.
Great Explanation!! Very easy to understand and very well presented.
Quick and informative. Good work!
Your awesome dude. Straight forward information with demonstration like I was looking for. Thx
Great info! Thanks. The video shown is perfect and to the point.
Thank you! Just answered a bunch of my questions!!
Great way of explaining such that it is understandable. Thanks so much
Great education, answered the questions I had.
Very well done , great job in explaining
Great videos. Very helpful, to the point and easy to understand. That's a skill in and of it's self.
Thank you, that was a very clear explanation.
Love the video, was looking for solid information. Thanks again, BTW I subbed.
Thank you for such a clear explanation!
Great explanation Benjamin! 👍🏼
Ben you are amazing, explain so good , so clear with such understandable drawings
Wow!!!!
Thanks
Thanks man! Very helpful
Interesting how you fellas do your wiring.
In Australia, we use green/yellow for earth, black for neutral, and red/white/blue for the 3 phases. The neutral and earth are also bonded at the point of entry and we call this the M.E.N link. We use a modified version of the TNC-S earthing configuration. Our voltages are 240v from line to earth or neutral and 415v from line to line.
Great explanation.
I had a Generac generator installed and upgraded my service panel from 100 to 200 Amp. The green bonding screw is not installed and there is a separate grounding bar. The panel outside my house is where the neutral is bonded because it serves both the generator sub panel and the house 200 amp sub panel.
This matters to me because I added a few new circuits and split a couple, so knowing that the growing wires needed to go directly to the grounding panel is critical.
Well done. You explained it real good.
Allways ,you make good videos ,thanks.
Thanks for the info. 👍
Good explanations. Thank you.
More!!Very helpful!!
Good stuff bro👍
Very clear. Mucho thanks.
That was great advice 👍
Answered my question real quick.
Wish I could give you 100 thumbs up, great stuff here. Building my own place and this answered a lot of questions. THANKS!
Awesome! Congratulations on your house build!
Thanks! I'm wiring up an AC disconnect for a PV (solar) system. The formula in the code indicates that I need to run #4 AWG ground and #4AWG Neutral from my Breaker panel (combines the output of 2 inverters) to the AC Disconnect, which then ties directly to the service meter (at the meter lugs). My question is about the ground wire size. After the AC Disconnect (where the neutral and ground are combined) the copper wire then goes to the ground rods. This is allowed to be #6AWG, then what is the point of having the #4 AWG run with the (2) 120V conductors? I'm asking because I have to pull these wires on a long run, and because I'm curious. Any thoughts?
awesome video! thank you
Excellent!! Thank you!!
This is a great video!!!
Great vid. Thanks
Good show Ben. Whoever installed my sub panel didn't pay any attention to segregating (hate that word but it fits) the gnds and neutrals. I really appreciate the close up picture of the Gnd screw and where it goes, and the other close ups.
Question - When changing out a Sub panel and some wires are too short to reach the correct Bars/busses, what are the rules for installing a additional bar/buss to connect the short wires to? Rather than using a wire nut and pigtail to make it reach?
great job explaining this! thank you!
Great video, thank you !
Thanks! And thank you for being a subscriber!
Excellent videos. A lot of misinformation out there, including from electricians. While I’m well versed in residential wiring, it was the main service entry that I was never clear on, especially with a main outside disconnect and a main panel inside the house several feet away. Not only can I now fix the second property I have, but this clearly shows the licensed electrician, and building inspector got my main home wrong. They have the neutral and ground bonded together in main panel, yet I have an external disconnect 20ft away, and the ground neutral are bonded there as well. There is no separate ground bar in the main panel. Another job from a pro I must fix. Appreciate your posts, best out there.
I just liked and subscribed to your channel. I have been able to achieve so much on my own and safely with your videos. Thank you...
Ben this was short and sweet. I got it.
In some panels you can remove the bonding strap between the two neutral bus bars and make the left one a ground bus. This keeps you from having to install a separate ground bus.
Thanks!
The main bonding jumper is required at the MAIN DISCONNECT. This is the only place an equipment ground is bonded with the neutral conductor. Otherwise, current will flow on grounded parts and cause objectionable current flow. NEC 250.6 goes into great detail of an effective ground fault current path is. NEC 250.28 is where you'll find out about the MBJ.
electricalron Thankyou, finally someone injects the NEC into the mix. And as you can tell the Saga of Grounding and Bonding confusion continues,Lol.
Looks like good accurate info to me
Great video but why NO green tape on your incoming ground wires?
Good job
Good job
Thank you sir
Saved my a** again Ben!!! Thanks man
Glad that I was able to be of some assistance!!
I have an older house. The green screw was missing. The inspector said that I could either find a replacement screw or run a copper wire from the neutral to lug screwed into the base of the breaker box.
FASCINATING, God Bless, mach's gut und weiter so. 🙏
What about if a disconnect comes after the meter to the sub panel.
I should probably go check if my two subpanels have the bonding screws or not. They were here when I bought the place, but I've never checked this. Our GFI's do trip every once and a while (a couple of times a year) for no apparent reason.
Just the info I needed. I do home inspections and never learned about the bonding screw. I've been inspecting panels looking for bonding straps or wires. Now I will look for the presence of green screws on the neutral bus
Make sure you know when to look for it and not. Also, when it's not needed. Master electrician and Electrical contractor
So you have no clue how to do your job and pass/fail based on guesses???
athhud that’s all home inspectors
Does that cutoff, or "main", panel outside have a ground wire connecting it to grounding rods? Or does only the subpanel inside have a direct connection to them? If so, why?
I have a bonded Inverter that I want to wire to a critical loads panel in my home. How does that work when the main panel is bonded and the inverter is bonded? I can't unbond the inverter.
I want to have the option of running my critical loads from the inverter and the rest of the house from the mains. At the same time. Or run the critical loads from just the mains if working on the inverter and it's out of service. I live in the US.
Sure wish some of my inspectors watched your stuff
Thank you sir.
i have a subpanel in my single family home in northern California that is fed from the main service panel with 2 hots and a neutral only, no grounding wire. The grounds and neutrals are all bonded together in the subpanel, including a #6 to earth grounding rod at the subpanel. This house was constructed in early 1990's, have the codes changed since then? Should I be looking at adding a ground wire from the main service panel to the subpanel, and separating the grounds and neutrals? Thanks so much for the great content!
Man!!! Thank you!
DUH ! Now I get it thanks
Good to know 👍
I usually chuck that screw in my man I wish I had one of those screws compartment !!
Thank you
My GE box has a strap across the busbars, do I still need to put the bonding screw in?
Square D always made great panels and I really like there breakers.
i think they are the best
@@sku32956
Yeah me too especially if ever got to work on FPE panels.
Is it safe to install the ground screw on a cutoff panel with power supplied but with the breaker off?
Quick question, if you were on the main panel, does that mean the neutral and the ground can go into the same bus? I'm installing a NEMA 14-50. Just trying to be very cautious with how I install a ground in the neutral. The box is definitely the main and first electrical panel from the power source (city meter)
Good stuff bro your coming along as electrician lol
I do not have a water meter to ground the panel to. I installed two lightning rods outside 7 feet away and those have a bare copper wire running to the meter socket. Would I also run an additional bare wire from panel to lightning rod?
I am working on replacing a 1930's Square D panel (which is very small 11"x6-1/2"), it is located inside the house. It is a farm house that was built in the late 1800's. I wish I could post photos for reference. Anyway, outside, there is an electric service pole with a meter. Inside that same panel with the meter is a 100amp shutoff. When installing the new panel (inside the house), should I leave out the Neutral bonding screw? In other words, is it the same as you have here in the beginning of the video, just included in one panel instead of two panels?
And my second issue is, now that I had to cut a bigger opening in the wall for the new panel, some of the wires are too short to reach the new location of where they are supposed to go (I really wish I could post some photos). What is the best and proper way to extend these wires? can I just use wire nuts in a panel to extend a wire, or should I use some sort of wire splicing that involves heat shrink tape? Thanks for any help you can give.
If I have a changeover switch, one side the mains L+N and the other side the generator L+N and the output go to the house mains breaker, since the mains earth and neutral are bonded and i switch the changeover to generator, do I need to bond the earth and neutral on the generator if it is not a bonded generator? thanks
Found mine in the main panel. It's a strap in mine, was looking because I will have to add a ground bar to the main panel and remove the strap for when I add a automatic transfer switch before the main panel. Then i will bond in the transfer switch, as it will be in first place.
Don Smith finally added a reason why you tie the grounds back to a single first point. Amplifier hum. There will be other reasons as well. rupe53 contributed a false trip on a GFIC. I would like to know about those scenarios as well as the color of the bonding screw. While following the electrical code is one reason to do proper grounding, it is not the only reason.
As correctly stated, the bonding screw bonds the neutral bus and the grounding
bar.
So, the bonding screw should always and only be and the first junction? In this case the disconnect outside. If you leave it inside, you could actually electrify the entire box or boxes insie?
if the meter is in and the disconnect is turned off is the neutral leg live or dead..we have been told to put a neutral bonding screw in and wondered if it can be done without pulling the meter again
Hi Ben. Love your videos. I have a question I'm hoping you can help me with. I have a sub panel that has the bonding screw removed like it's supposed to be. My main panel has the bonding screw attached. My sub panel is in my tiny house about 25 feet away. My problem is, when the wiring was originally run, only three wires were run to the sub panel. 2 hots, and a neutral. The ground is just a very large rod driven into the ground. Is that ok, or do I need to run a separate ground wire back to the panel? I've checked the entire system and everything is showing grounded and wired correctly. Thank you so much and keep making those great videos. Chris.
I see that you have the white and bare wires on the same bar. So why would it be necessary to separate them in another box if it goes to the first box that has the wires mix