"'. . . cause it's a much easier spot to land all the grounds." Thanks Benjamin, that is what I needed. And, I like your idea of wiring the two ground bars together.
I really like how you brought the circuit wires in and looped them at the bottom. If you ever need to move things around you will have plenty of excess wire. I always see these panels where everything is just as long as it needs to be and everything is bent all perfect. That panel can't really be relocated at all without rewiring circuits or adding unsightly junction boxes. I learned a lot from this, the cutoff panel and arc fault videos. I have to un-bond the sub panel in my shop so I can arc fault breakers and it's fed by a cutoff panel and you answered all my questions. Thanks a ton for making these videos!
The extra ground wire between the bus bars is a good idea because of the paint on the panel. You're not guaranteed of a low resistance connection through the chassis.
Great video, work and info. One thing that I do is grind off the paint where Ill be installing the the ground bus to ensure a well established grounding point.
I am confused by this video. Bottom line is ground and neutral can not be bonded (tied together). If they are bonded and you lose the neutral all the current will go back on all the grounds. So if you touch a ground and you are touching a pipe or somehow are grounded…… say goodby! ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
@@JesseKlaus ... bonding of neutral and ground is ONLY at the point of first disconnect. That means in whatever panel the main line circuit breaker is mounted. If it's out at the meter, then that's where you bond.... and no place else!
I'm always glad, when involved in an electrical project in which there is the need for some expertise to guide me along the way, that Mr. Sahlstrom has produced a video covering the same topic. His explanations and the quality of his ordered workmanship are superb. Had the previous "professionals" at my residence afforded me the latter, I would not be embracing this new project. Thank you, Ben.
I hope I got it right... Separate building with a sub panel has it's own ground rod, connected to the ground from the mail panel and connected all the grounds in this building. Don't connect to the neutral. FYI, I just want to spot check some shady installers. Excellent, very helpful!
Douglas Hurd If you wire it that way your breaker may not trip an wires may be energized if a malfunction occurs from a appliance you only use ground rods that are minimum 8 feet in earth contact do two at least minimum of six feet apart on the service entrance disconnect than sub panels use the ground from service entrance disconnect so it would trip the breakers quicker an less heat buildup as well as easier to diagnose a ground issue this guy don’t have a full understanding of electrical theory please research more an be careful if you want additional ground protection it should stay all in the service entrance disconnect panel like four ground rods wired separately instead of daisy chained to a separate bonding strip than one wire ran into service entrance disconnect panel that way you have the four rods you want for additional ground protection
@Bob Atleast he has an actual understanding of why a subpanel requires separation of ground and neutral, as opposed to most of the "real" electricians that wire up what they think is right. But im sure you have it down to a science..."Bob"
@Bob instead why dont you share your profound knowledge rather than putting him down over a video where he did nothing wrong. Though I didnt say you didnt know your job, most of the people I have learned the most from, who were truly smart, weren't half as condescending as you. You could do a lot more with that knowledge, but you decide to be an internet troll. Interesting, I would say you would have to be pushing 50 at 26 years in the field. Way to express you expertise at such a mature age.
Many of the older pre-late 60’s sub-panels combine neutrals and grounds. It seems that one option would be to tap the panel for a universal ground bar, run a #4 (125 amp) ground wire to the main, and separate the neutrals and grounds. The other option is to replace the panel which is often a better choice.
When adding a 200 amp sub panel as Main And using old 3 wire , Main as Disconnect , is it ok to use No 4 SEC. Aluminum . 3 wire and adding additional ,No 2 copper, as 4th wire to ground bussbar. ? Thanks. love ur videos.
Just finished running my wires in my shop through emt and you bet I also pulled a redundant ground wire also just in case. Can't be too safe I love it. Now I have to do this to the sub that is supplying my shop because the builder bonded every ground and neutral together.
Best video 👍. I have 2 separate meters with 2 main panels for a 2 family house. Now I use it as one family and closed one meter/account. So I want to convert one of panels as Sub-panel. Do I need to get additional ground bar for this converted sub panel? It’s in same house and 2 panels next to each other and they are all connected to metal conduit, then to the ground. Thanks 🙏
thanks for the videos - I have a 3 wire feed sub panel in a detached garage that was built in the mid eighties. the sub panel has a isolated neutral bar but no ground bar (both grounds and neutrals are attached to the isolated neutral) should a ground bar be added and neutrals and grounds separated. Sub panel also has its own ground rod.
My 1948 home has two wire outlets, no ground. The service panel had been upgraded sometime in the past to a 100 amp service with today style breakers. If I want to run wiring for a 120 volt/30 amp disconnect for a mini split, I would just need to install a ground bar in the service panel. Then run hot, neutral and ground to disconnect on it’s own dedicated 20 amp breaker correct? Or could I just use a neutral bus to run ground from?
Im trying to reuse a older subpanel in my new pole barn..it has only one bar for the neutral and ground together...i removed the "bonding to box" screw on that bar to dedicate it to neutral wires.. I bought a ground bar for the ground wire but cant figure out where to mount it ..its an older square d 100 amp panel and the breakers and buses run horizontally..can i put the new ground bar beside the neutral bar?..It seems to gonna be very crowded in that box..
I have a partially installed subpanel into a garage with only 3 #2 wires buried deep. Do I drive 2 ground rods and connect ground wire to a separate ground bar along with the bare ground wires. Can't dig up the concrete to run a 4th wire from main to sub.
Very clean install on the clarification part. You do nice work, I would love to have someone as tidy as you are when I need work done. My last experience with a "journeyman" electrician didn't leave me with confidence that the job was done correctly just because it looked so sloppy.
Yeah unfortunately not all installs look the best. Sometimes it isn't the guys fault in that they are under pressure to finish ASAP and can't take the time to make it look neat. You have to shop around and ask for an electrician that does neat work. You will pay a bit more but I think that it is worth it. Thanks for the comment!
I am adding a breaker on my panel, but I see no ground bus bar. Only two neutral bus bar. What should I do with my ground wire? should I put both my ground wire and the neutral wire onto the neutral bus bar?
Hello Maestro, thank you for educating us, I have a question, my house was built in 1936 before you even born, the electrical installation is not grounded at all, all my electrical out lets only have the hot and the neutral, the neutral from the main entrance box goes to connect to the water pipes in the property, I would like to ground what I can inside the house with new out lets installs, and with a 7 ft bar into the ground, my question is, can I get away with just one bar in to the ground?? I see in the beginning of your video, you mention 2 bars in to the ground, and also I like to install the grounds strip in the same main box, now would I tap in to the neutral strip from my grounds strip in to the main box?? because I only have 1 box, the electricity meter is in the same box, thank you in advance!
Is a transfer switch panel that is used for whole house generators considered a “sub panel”? Or does a “sub panel” always refer to an additional breaker panel? Thanks.
If I'm understanding correctly, did you say it is ok to jump the second ground bar from the neutral bar? Isn't this the same as bonding the ground and neutral? I thought they should ONLY be bonded at the main panel. Is this incorrect? BTW, that's the "cleanest" subpanel installation I've seen. It's clear that you take pride in your work!
This will be my first wiring to a subpanel, now the sub panel has a ground bonding screw already in the box n it came with a extra green bonding screw in a bag I guess for the neutral bar n I'm know not to install it. My question is do I need to run a ground from my main panel to the subpanel then add a extra ground going to a grounding rod? I watched a video where they ran it off a 100 amp breaker from the main to the subpanel 100 feet away n installed both hots n the neutral wire, but they just ran a ground to a grounding rod n not one from the main. My garage is just like 25-30 feet from where my main panel is. Thanks God Bless!
Here are some hand tools that I highly recommend: www.amazon.com/shop/benjaminsahlstrom Really appreciate all of your comments and the discussion here! Let me know what thoughts you have! If you use one of the above links it will also help support the channel at NO cost to you. I wouldn't be able to do this without you guys. Blessings, Ben
If we are adding a sub panel, how big the circuit breaker can be added to the main supply panel. Say the main panel is 200A, considering there are already existing circuit breakers at the main supply panel. what are the engineering requirements ??
Since all sub panels need separate ground and neutral, why do so many panels only have 1? If they only have a neutral bus bar, can you just add a ground bar and attach the ground rod wire and wire from the main panel?
Thank you for your video. I needed the information that you showed on your video about that whole house surge protector and how it's grounded to the neutral in the instruction but it also supposed to be grounded now when I watched your video I saw it's directly to the ground not the neutral that's the information I wanted to double check on that's why I've been watching videos thank you again.
Thanks for the great videos!! Any chance you could please do a video showing you building a subpanel using a Square D Plug on neutral style load center. It would be great to see how you convert them to a subpanel. Thanks!
Hi Ben i just want to ask which one is the binding screw here in my main panel? I was searching and haven’t found any except that I am wondering it is the green wire connected to the ground and eventually connected to the neutral? I will attach the picture so you can see and confirm please?
Benjamin, great video agree on all but I did have a question. What about a sub panel that mounted on a transformer that does not have a grounding rod. Should I still have a jumper between the grounding bar and the neutral or will this be one of those instances where the grounding bar and the neutral bar need to be isolated away from each other without a jumping wire. Thanks in advance
Hi Ben! I would like to add an exterior gfci outlet with a dedicated cable to my front entrance. On my main electric panel, I still have a few slots for additional single pole breakers. Most of my lightings are LEDs and and I have gas appliances so no problem of overloading. But on my neutral bar, I'm running out of screw in space to insert another neutral wire. My local home depot master electrician tells me I can put 2 neutral wires in under one same screw because he says there's not much current going through the neutral bus anyways. Is he correct? Secondly, I thought neutral bus is where the current coming from hot wires, goes to the outlet, then go back through neutral wires, then the neutral bus, then back to the transformer. Doesn't that mean theres quite a bit of current going though the neutral bus? Is then the grounding bus and wires another pathway for any excess current to go back to the transformer in addition to the neutral bus? Thanks in advance, and love your videos!
If you are installing a ground rod and connecting it to the sub-panel box, why back feed the ground to the main panel? Doesn't grounding mean just that, to run a wire from the ground rod in the dirt to the box?
My understanding is that there are two different grounding systems. Sounds as though you are conflating the two. Electricity always wants to go back to it's source. In your house, the source is actually the transformer in the street. So here's grounding system #1) you need to bond every component in your house that normally does not carry voltage, but *could* carry voltage in the case of a wiring failure. Say, you drop your blender one too many times, and the internal black wire bringing juice to the appliance comes loose and touches the metal housing of the blender. Grounding system # 1 provides a straight shot from that blender housing back to the MAIN service panel, and from there, on to the transformer in the street. The circuit the blender is on NEEDS that straight shot, providing a closed loop, allowing a crap-ton of current to flow immediately, and therefore tripping the breaker and saving your sorry butt (or mine!) from an electric shock next time you decide to make a smoothie. Grounding system #2 is a different ball of wax. I do believe that every structure needs a ground rod to protect it from very huge current surges like lightening. When Zeus decides to zap your detached garage, asking the ground feeder wire to pass all that current back up the the transformer in the street is a no-go. So a big, fat, grounding rod conductor shoots the lightening back into the earth where it belongs. Or something like that!
I get confused with ground rods. My main panel in on a pole by the road, it has ground bars. My shack has a sub panel and I have heard some say put a ground rod in the ground there too others say not to connect to it ... others use the term "ground loop". Maybe some info on that..????
99% of panels I've used have had a way to easily separate the factory given neutral/ground bars for a subpanel.....Betting that one did too....PS the highlight of the video was when you said "assuredy"
Thanks for the help! This is exactly what I was looking for. I just need to go back in the video and make.sure where the 4th wire (ground) goes into the main panel.
My house has the main panel as a sub panel but the ground and neutral are together everything works fine do i need to remove the ground to a separate bus
As a sub panel you connect your neutral to your ground bar? And the neutral should not be bonded to the panel itself right? doesn't that essentially just make your ground bar another neutral?
This is a stupid question but what is the reason for the separation of the grounds and common wires? What damaged is there if this rule is not followed in the second box?
Did I understand this correctly? All four wires (main-panel ground, main-panel neutral, subpanel ground, and spanel neutral) are tied together and bonded to the cabinet? Doesn't that create the possibility of current flow from thr neutral of one box to the ground of another?
The only way it could be a true "equipment ground" and not a neutral (grounded conductor) is if the panel was strictly 220v. Im sure this isn't the case. You need to run 4 wires: hot/hot/neutral/ground, remove the neutral to ground bonding screws and separate all neutrals and grounds in your sub panels.
In the sub panel the neutral is isolated from the chassis of the sub panel since the green screw is remove,Now is this neutral bar connected back by wire to the neutral at the main panel? ,& what # gauge of wire?
Excellent video. Subscribed! I have a sub panel in a garage, fed by 4 wires (2 hot, neutral, and ground). The neutral bar in the sub panel is not bonded to ground and I believe/read it should NEVER be bonded in a sub panel. I have 3 things attached to the sub panel- a three prong outlet for a compressor, an air conditioner (3 wire), and an electric garage heater (3 wire). All are 240v (or 220?). I do not have a separate grounding rod for the sub panel. The sub is 4 feet from the main panel and I added a grounding bar to the sub panel. *****The question is... should the ground for each of the 3 connections be connected to the ground bar or neutral bar in the sub panel? I cannot find the answer anywhere!!! Thanks!
You are correct, sub panels do not have a individual ground taken to a second separate ground rod. Main distribution panel is "earth" grounded only. All other sub panels connect back to distribution panel. Check voltage between neutral and ground at Main panel. Should be less than 1vac. Had a situation where lights would change illumination levels (like a small occasional flicker). Had 12 to 15vac between the ground bar and neutral at Main panel. Found ground bonding bolt loose, stripped buss of loads (opened breakers) opened main. Got about 1/2 to 3/4 turn on bonding screw which "bonds" neutral bar to ground bar at main panel, Added additional 10 gauge wire between neutral buss bar and ground buss bar. Voltage drop now 0.07vac. Main feed in now 120vac to ground each phase 240 between the two phases & steady. Was told all electrical equipment sounds much better. Electric bill improved about 10%. Everyone should have a qualified electrician come into home and re-torque all connections or at a minimum use a non contact temperature device and check all connections for heat signatures (loose connection). Many fires start from simply loose connections on breaker or buss bars. Be safe, always wear gloves, keep audible voltage detector on. Breakers can fail as they are mechanical devices. 0.005 (500 millamps) can kill.
Enjoyed the video. Question: if the main panel is bonded and the sub panel that I’m adding isn’t do I still connect the ground in my main panel to my sub panel even if I added a new ground rod on my sub panel.
Very clear and smart info! Thanks. Is the neutral/ground separation the same for a sub panel off a sub panel. So I have a main 200 amp in the house then sub panel#1 in detached garage then sub panel#2 from sub panel #1 in barn.
Great video . Question please, I have a new Eaton 200 amp csr 25k main panel and i dont get the purpose of the green bonding screw as i have a left buss and a right buss does it really make a difference for my ground and common of which to run the wires to?
so in the main panel you can put the neutrals & the grounds on the same bars that has a grounding screw in it and on the sub panel you have to separate the neutrals from the grounds with a separate grounding bar.
tunnelwind1 yes this is true. This is to prevent objectionable current, or a current loop in which current travels back to the main panel or source on not just the neutral but also the ground wires and metal parts attached essentially energizing things that shouldn’t be energized. This is why sometimes people get shocked by stuff and not know why.
This video is from 2018, but I sure hope you monitor the comments, and can answer my question. As I was replacing the breakers in my panel, which are constantly getting false tripping, I have to disconnect the pig tail. The screw for the ground bar has a square hole in it, and a slot that you should be able to use a flat screwdriver to loosen. Well, the electrician must have been Godzilla because it's so tight that they start to strip instead of loosen. I've tried a #1, 2, and 3 square bits, but they don't fit in the square hole. Which bit are you using to tighten the screw in your video?
Hello Ben, what is the reason for not adding Neutral wires to the additional (new) ground bar in a bonded distribution panel? You stated this at the very beginning of the video.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Thank you for your quick reply. I appreciated your video, well done. I am a subscriber. As you say, it theoretically works because this additional equipment grounding bar is an extension of the neutral bar in a bonded panel. Of course this is not the case on a subpanel where the neutral and equipment grounding conductors should never be mixed. I have not been able to find the code which directly speaks about this so when you mention it I sought your help. Once again thank you for your response.
Enrique Ferreira because it would create a current loop which is called objectionable current per the nec. It means the current would not only flow back on the neutral but also the grounds of it were done in such a manner. That’s why it’s only done at the main panel or first means of disconnecting, otherwise if you took a meter and measured voltage on various grounds around the house you would see voltage which is what you don’t want. The supply power on all power lines have the ground bonded with the neutral which is why in small place or towns that feed residential areas you only see two wires on the poles instead of three and even when three phase is supplied they only have 4 wires three hots and a ground/neutral. That’s why you only have three wires feeding your meter. Two hots and a ground slash neutral. The purpose of the ground being bonded to the neutral is in case of faults so the current has a low impedance path back to the source which essentially is the neutral or return path for current, without it whatever neutral or hot wire that touched a metal surface would energize it and it would stay energized without tripping the breaker and create a shock hazard for people. Sorry didn’t mean to get so in-depth just spreading some knowledge to you.
@@shemicdee780 Yes, it is okay ONLY in the Main panel (Main Disconnect). Use a #6 wire to connect your additional/new ground bar to the manufacturer's provided neutral bar, which, in the case of a Main Disconnect panel, is bonded to the manufacturer's provided ground bar typically via a green screw. The ground bar, the neutral bar and the panel's case are all bonded together at that point. Of course, never do this in a sub panel.
You have a good video tutorial Benjamin. I have one thiing to know if i can put the 100 amps circuit breaker to sub panel? Why i ask this, because my main panel in the basement is 100 amps. What will you recomend? Thank you in advance.
Canada is so far ahead of the states when it comes to bonding, we don’t bond any grounds to the neutral bar we bond them to the enclosure. When bonding the grounds to neutral bars you will ALWAYS have a parallel current path if the bonds aren’t insulated or touching the enclosure. If you’re using EMT this wouldn’t be a problem. By adding that jumper wire you’ve added resistance to you’re fault path not good. You ground at 2 locations? No idea why you’d need 2 points of ground not to mention you landed the ground conductor to the bonds which serves no purpose.
Benjamin Nice Video, I have a question, would I have to add two bus bars (ground and neutral) to my main panel if I don't have room on the current bar to add my generator hook up.
dallee709 If your main panel is the first means of disconnect meaning that’s the first place the wires come from the meter and first place you can disconnect power to your panel then you only need one bar since the neutral and ground are bonded together in the main panel. However if it were a sub panel you would need to keep the neutral and ground separate, but in your case it’s a main panel so you only need one additional bar and you can attach grounds and neutrals in that panel.
Thank you Kenneth. What size side do you recommend to ground New bus bar to current bus bar. And I'm thinking to ground it to the bus bar on my right as I look at my panel. The ground coming from the street is tied into bus bar on my left. Thank you
"'. . . cause it's a much easier spot to land all the grounds." Thanks Benjamin, that is what I needed. And, I like your idea of wiring the two ground bars together.
I really like how you brought the circuit wires in and looped them at the bottom. If you ever need to move things around you will have plenty of excess wire. I always see these panels where everything is just as long as it needs to be and everything is bent all perfect. That panel can't really be relocated at all without rewiring circuits or adding unsightly junction boxes. I learned a lot from this, the cutoff panel and arc fault videos. I have to un-bond the sub panel in my shop so I can arc fault breakers and it's fed by a cutoff panel and you answered all my questions. Thanks a ton for making these videos!
The extra ground wire between the bus bars is a good idea because of the paint on the panel. You're not guaranteed of a low resistance connection through the chassis.
Thank you! This is the only video online that explains this clearly.
Great video, work and info. One thing that I do is grind off the paint where Ill be installing the the ground bus to ensure a well established grounding point.
You can also install the ground bar by actually using a drill and tap to actually thread the screw into the metal
I am confused by this video. Bottom line is ground and neutral can not be bonded (tied together). If they are bonded and you lose the neutral all the current will go back on all the grounds. So if you touch a ground and you are touching a pipe or somehow are grounded…… say goodby! ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
@@SparkeyDogfish aren't they bonded in the meter?
@@JesseKlaus ... bonding of neutral and ground is ONLY at the point of first disconnect. That means in whatever panel the main line circuit breaker is mounted. If it's out at the meter, then that's where you bond.... and no place else!
I'm always glad, when involved in an electrical project in which there is the need for some expertise to guide me along the way, that Mr. Sahlstrom has produced a video covering the same topic. His explanations and the quality of his ordered workmanship are superb. Had the previous "professionals" at my residence afforded me the latter, I would not be embracing this new project. Thank you, Ben.
I hope I got it right... Separate building with a sub panel has it's own ground rod, connected to the ground from the mail panel and connected all the grounds in this building. Don't connect to the neutral.
FYI, I just want to spot check some shady installers.
Excellent, very helpful!
Douglas Hurd If you wire it that way your breaker may not trip an wires may be energized if a malfunction occurs from a appliance you only use ground rods that are minimum 8 feet in earth contact do two at least minimum of six feet apart on the service entrance disconnect than sub panels use the ground from service entrance disconnect so it would trip the breakers quicker an less heat buildup as well as easier to diagnose a ground issue this guy don’t have a full understanding of electrical theory please research more an be careful if you want additional ground protection it should stay all in the service entrance disconnect panel like four ground rods wired separately instead of daisy chained to a separate bonding strip than one wire ran into service entrance disconnect panel that way you have the four rods you want for additional ground protection
You explain things so thoroughly! Thank you! This video is so helpful!
Why is it important to get the correct ground bus bars for your panel? Is it just so they fit correctly or can it cause some other issues?
Thanks for the info I tied my grounds and neutrals together on my subpanel in my house I will be separating them asap.
Mostviews111, make sure that there is no bonding screw (green) in the sub panel either.
What's the jumper wire size? 4? 6? 8?
Nice to see how the lads do it over the pond
@Bob Atleast he has an actual understanding of why a subpanel requires separation of ground and neutral, as opposed to most of the "real" electricians that wire up what they think is right. But im sure you have it down to a science..."Bob"
@Bob instead why dont you share your profound knowledge rather than putting him down over a video where he did nothing wrong. Though I didnt say you didnt know your job, most of the people I have learned the most from, who were truly smart, weren't half as condescending as you. You could do a lot more with that knowledge, but you decide to be an internet troll. Interesting, I would say you would have to be pushing 50 at 26 years in the field. Way to express you expertise at such a mature age.
@Bob Typical troll reply, no constructive criticism. Mike holt taught at night to 10 or 15 students at a time, then he reached millions on the net. 😘
First class in your clarity, Benjamin. Thanks so much. Rick
Nice and clean panel. Mine is starting to become a mess as it becomes full, no matter how much I tried to avoid it!
Many of the older pre-late 60’s sub-panels combine neutrals and grounds. It seems that one option would be to tap the panel for a universal ground bar, run a #4 (125 amp) ground wire to the main, and separate the neutrals and grounds. The other option is to replace the panel which is often a better choice.
Awsome Lookingwired Panel. I think you have reached Level god for Panel Presentation.
When adding a 200 amp sub panel as Main And using old 3 wire , Main as Disconnect , is it ok to use No 4 SEC. Aluminum . 3 wire and adding additional ,No 2 copper, as 4th wire to ground bussbar. ? Thanks. love ur videos.
Just finished running my wires in my shop through emt and you bet I also pulled a redundant ground wire also just in case. Can't be too safe I love it. Now I have to do this to the sub that is supplying my shop because the builder bonded every ground and neutral together.
Your wires look so clean especially with that many
Excellent hands-on ground bar grounding job on a Sub panel. Thank you for sharing with us.. you are the BOSS
Best video 👍.
I have 2 separate meters with 2 main panels for a 2 family house. Now I use it as one family and closed one meter/account. So I want to convert one of panels as Sub-panel. Do I need to get additional ground bar for this converted sub panel? It’s in same house and 2 panels next to each other and they are all connected to metal conduit, then to the ground. Thanks 🙏
thanks for the videos - I have a 3 wire feed sub panel in a detached garage that was built in the mid eighties. the sub panel has a isolated neutral bar but no ground bar (both grounds and neutrals are attached to the isolated neutral) should a ground bar be added and neutrals and grounds separated. Sub panel also has its own ground rod.
My 1948 home has two wire outlets, no ground. The service panel had been upgraded sometime in the past to a 100 amp service with today style breakers. If I want to run wiring for a 120 volt/30 amp disconnect for a mini split, I would just need to install a ground bar in the service panel. Then run hot, neutral and ground to disconnect on it’s own dedicated 20 amp breaker correct? Or could I just use a neutral bus to run ground from?
Im trying to reuse a older subpanel in my new pole barn..it has only one bar for the neutral and ground together...i removed the "bonding to box" screw on that bar to dedicate it to neutral wires.. I bought a ground bar for the ground wire but cant figure out where to mount it ..its an older square d 100 amp panel and the breakers and buses run horizontally..can i put the new ground bar beside the neutral bar?..It seems to gonna be very crowded in that box..
I have a partially installed subpanel into a garage
with only 3 #2 wires buried deep. Do I drive 2 ground rods and connect ground wire to a separate ground bar along with the bare ground wires. Can't dig up the concrete to run a 4th wire from main to sub.
Very clean install on the clarification part. You do nice work, I would love to have someone as tidy as you are when I need work done. My last experience with a "journeyman" electrician didn't leave me with confidence that the job was done correctly just because it looked so sloppy.
Yeah unfortunately not all installs look the best. Sometimes it isn't the guys fault in that they are under pressure to finish ASAP and can't take the time to make it look neat. You have to shop around and ask for an electrician that does neat work. You will pay a bit more but I think that it is worth it. Thanks for the comment!
I am adding a breaker on my panel, but I see no ground bus bar. Only two neutral bus bar. What should I do with my ground wire? should I put both my ground wire and the neutral wire onto the neutral bus bar?
Hello Maestro, thank you for educating us, I have a question, my house was built in 1936 before you even born, the electrical installation is not grounded at all, all my electrical out lets only have the hot and the neutral, the neutral from the main entrance box goes to connect to the water pipes in the property, I would like to ground what I can inside the house with new out lets installs, and with a 7 ft bar into the ground, my question is, can I get away with just one bar in to the ground?? I see in the beginning of your video, you mention 2 bars in to the ground, and also I like to install the grounds strip in the same main box, now would I tap in to the neutral strip from my grounds strip in to the main box?? because I only have 1 box, the electricity meter is in the same box, thank you in advance!
Thanks for explaining the addition of 2nd ground bar
What gauge ground wire did you use to link the ground bars? How did you calculate the size to use?
Is the ground wire on a sub panel grounded to the sub panel box, or is it isolated? I know the neutral isn’t. Thank You
Hey ben,so you just drilled a hole in the side of the box for the thick ground wire to exit ?
Thanks going back and clarifying about the grounding cable and grounding rod. That's what I was looking for. Your videos are great
Is a transfer switch panel that is used for whole house generators considered a “sub panel”? Or does a “sub panel” always refer to an additional breaker panel? Thanks.
Your workmanship is first rate. Good job!
So if I'm adding a grounding rod and a ground bar to a panel to a house that never had grounds do I run wire from neutral bar to ground bar?
Is it possible to install a second ground bar? Is it dangerous or against code?
If I'm understanding correctly, did you say it is ok to jump the second ground bar from the neutral bar? Isn't this the same as bonding the ground and neutral? I thought they should ONLY be bonded at the main panel. Is this incorrect? BTW, that's the "cleanest" subpanel installation I've seen. It's clear that you take pride in your work!
This will be my first wiring to a subpanel, now the sub panel has a ground bonding screw already in the box n it came with a extra green bonding screw in a bag I guess for the neutral bar n I'm know not to install it. My question is do I need to run a ground from my main panel to the subpanel then add a extra ground going to a grounding rod? I watched a video where they ran it off a 100 amp breaker from the main to the subpanel 100 feet away n installed both hots n the neutral wire, but they just ran a ground to a grounding rod n not one from the main. My garage is just like 25-30 feet from where my main panel is. Thanks God Bless!
Very professional work, great video.
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Really appreciate all of your comments and the discussion here! Let me know what thoughts you have! If you use one of the above links it will also help support the channel at NO cost to you. I wouldn't be able to do this without you guys.
Blessings,
Ben
Hey Ben, Curious what the current transformer on the side of the panel is for?
Had an inspector in Northern Ca state you CAN NOT add a ground bar onto an electrical panel as it voids the UL listing to the electrical panel.
If we are adding a sub panel, how big the circuit breaker can be added to the main supply panel. Say the main panel is 200A, considering there are already existing circuit breakers at the main supply panel. what are the engineering requirements ??
Since all sub panels need separate ground and neutral, why do so many panels only have 1? If they only have a neutral bus bar, can you just add a ground bar and attach the ground rod wire and wire from the main panel?
Question: Would this be applicable to an older sub panel with one neutral bus
Thank you for your video. I needed the information that you showed on your video about that whole house surge protector and how it's grounded to the neutral in the instruction but it also supposed to be grounded now when I watched your video I saw it's directly to the ground not the neutral that's the information I wanted to double check on that's why I've been watching videos thank you again.
What size for ground jumper ?
Thanks for the great videos!! Any chance you could please do a video showing you building a subpanel using a Square D Plug on neutral style load center. It would be great to see how you convert them to a subpanel. Thanks!
I'll add it to the list!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Thanks I look forward to it.
On a sub panel, why must you divide the neutral and ground wires
Hi Ben i just want to ask which one is the binding screw here in my main panel? I was searching and haven’t found any except that I am wondering it is the green wire connected to the ground and eventually connected to the neutral? I will attach the picture so you can see and confirm please?
Benjamin, great video agree on all but I did have a question. What about a sub panel that mounted on a transformer that does not have a grounding rod. Should I still have a jumper between the grounding bar and the neutral or will this be one of those instances where the grounding bar and the neutral bar need to be isolated away from each other without a jumping wire. Thanks in advance
Benjamin did you install the grounding rods 6ft apart on the side of your house and run the ground wire to your panel box?
Are all of the four top bars neutral bars?
can the ground wire from one panel to the other be a seperate wire or does it need to be part of the original wire jacket ?
Hi Ben! I would like to add an exterior gfci outlet with a dedicated cable to my front entrance. On my main electric panel, I still have a few slots for additional single pole breakers. Most of my lightings are LEDs and and I have gas appliances so no problem of overloading. But on my neutral bar, I'm running out of screw in space to insert another neutral wire. My local home depot master electrician tells me I can put 2 neutral wires in under one same screw because he says there's not much current going through the neutral bus anyways. Is he correct?
Secondly, I thought neutral bus is where the current coming from hot wires, goes to the outlet, then go back through neutral wires, then the neutral bus, then back to the transformer. Doesn't that mean theres quite a bit of current going though the neutral bus? Is then the grounding bus and wires another pathway for any excess current to go back to the transformer in addition to the neutral bus? Thanks in advance, and love your videos!
If you are installing a ground rod and connecting it to the sub-panel box, why back feed the ground to the main panel? Doesn't grounding mean just that, to run a wire from the ground rod in the dirt to the box?
My understanding is that there are two different grounding systems. Sounds as though you are conflating the two. Electricity always wants to go back to it's source. In your house, the source is actually the transformer in the street. So here's grounding system #1) you need to bond every component in your house that normally does not carry voltage, but *could* carry voltage in the case of a wiring failure. Say, you drop your blender one too many times, and the internal black wire bringing juice to the appliance comes loose and touches the metal housing of the blender. Grounding system # 1 provides a straight shot from that blender housing back to the MAIN service panel, and from there, on to the transformer in the street. The circuit the blender is on NEEDS that straight shot, providing a closed loop, allowing a crap-ton of current to flow immediately, and therefore tripping the breaker and saving your sorry butt (or mine!) from an electric shock next time you decide to make a smoothie. Grounding system #2 is a different ball of wax. I do believe that every structure needs a ground rod to protect it from very huge current surges like lightening. When Zeus decides to zap your detached garage, asking the ground feeder wire to pass all that current back up the the transformer in the street is a no-go. So a big, fat, grounding rod conductor shoots the lightening back into the earth where it belongs. Or something like that!
I get confused with ground rods. My main panel in on a pole by the road, it has ground bars. My shack has a sub panel and I have heard some say put a ground rod in the ground there too others say not to connect to it ... others use the term "ground loop". Maybe some info on that..????
99% of panels I've used have had a way to easily separate the factory given neutral/ground bars for a subpanel.....Betting that one did too....PS the highlight of the video was when you said "assuredy"
Thanks for the help! This is exactly what I was looking for. I just need to go back in the video and make.sure where the 4th wire (ground) goes into the main panel.
My house has the main panel as a sub panel but the ground and neutral are together everything works fine do i need to remove the ground to a separate bus
As a sub panel you connect your neutral to your ground bar? And the neutral should not be bonded to the panel itself right? doesn't that essentially just make your ground bar another neutral?
So the ground wire doesn't have to be green? And when installing the ground bar, does the screw go into the wall behind the panel?
VERY WELL EXPLAINED ............ good explanation with follow thru on the details TY
This is a stupid question but what is the reason for the separation of the grounds and common wires? What damaged is there if this rule is not followed in the second box?
Did I understand this correctly? All four wires (main-panel ground, main-panel neutral, subpanel ground, and spanel neutral) are tied together and bonded to the cabinet? Doesn't that create the possibility of current flow from thr neutral of one box to the ground of another?
I'm wiring a two 💯 A subpanels. The service cable has 2 hots and a aluminum wire. Is that aluminum wire the ground or the neutral?
The only way it could be a true "equipment ground" and not a neutral (grounded conductor) is if the panel was strictly 220v. Im sure this isn't the case. You need to run 4 wires: hot/hot/neutral/ground, remove the neutral to ground bonding screws and separate all neutrals and grounds in your sub panels.
In the sub panel the neutral is isolated from the chassis of the sub panel since the green screw is remove,Now is this neutral bar connected back by wire to the neutral at the main panel? ,& what # gauge of wire?
What size ground wire did you run from the sub panel to the main disconnect panel? (The fourth wire)
LOL my panel looks like a drunk electrician installed it. Im envious to how clean your work looks.
Very professional. You have great videos.
Glad you found it to be helpful!
Thanks Ben. Your videos have helped me immensely. Awesome content as always. Thanks again.
You did a great job explaining your work. Thank you very much. Great job!
I don't understand why is it necessary to separate the grounds and neutrals in subpanel but on main panel it doesn't matter
In a sub panel, on the separate ground bar, can you share a hole for two different ground wires or must you install a new separate ground bar?
Nicely done. Gave me the info I needed, clearly described and effectively shown.
Excellent video. Subscribed! I have a sub panel in a garage, fed by 4 wires (2 hot, neutral, and ground). The neutral bar in the sub panel is not bonded to ground and I believe/read it should NEVER be bonded in a sub panel. I have 3 things attached to the sub panel- a three prong outlet for a compressor, an air conditioner (3 wire), and an electric garage heater (3 wire). All are 240v (or 220?). I do not have a separate grounding rod for the sub panel. The sub is 4 feet from the main panel and I added a grounding bar to the sub panel. *****The question is... should the ground for each of the 3 connections be connected to the ground bar or neutral bar in the sub panel? I cannot find the answer anywhere!!! Thanks!
You are correct, sub panels do not have a individual ground taken to a second separate ground rod. Main distribution panel is "earth" grounded only. All other sub panels connect back to distribution panel. Check voltage between neutral and ground at Main panel. Should be less than 1vac. Had a situation where lights would change illumination levels (like a small occasional flicker). Had 12 to 15vac between the ground bar and neutral at Main panel. Found ground bonding bolt loose, stripped buss of loads (opened breakers) opened main. Got about 1/2 to 3/4 turn on bonding screw which "bonds" neutral bar to ground bar at main panel, Added additional 10 gauge wire between neutral buss bar and ground buss bar. Voltage drop now 0.07vac. Main feed in now 120vac to ground each phase 240 between the two phases & steady. Was told all electrical equipment sounds much better. Electric bill improved about 10%. Everyone should have a qualified electrician come into home and re-torque all connections or at a minimum use a non contact temperature device and check all connections for heat signatures (loose connection). Many fires start from simply loose connections on breaker or buss bars. Be safe, always wear gloves, keep audible voltage detector on. Breakers can fail as they are mechanical devices. 0.005 (500 millamps) can kill.
Enjoyed the video.
Question: if the main panel is bonded and the sub panel that I’m adding isn’t do I still connect the ground in my main panel to my sub panel even if I added a new ground rod on my sub panel.
It’s good to have a organized panel but be careful of bundling the conductors too tight, that could fail inspection
Hi Ben, thanks for sharing this video
what size cable is the ground bar wiring running from your main panel to the sub-panel?
12ga
Love your vid. Very thorough
Very clear and smart info!
Thanks.
Is the neutral/ground separation the same for a sub panel off a sub panel. So I have a main 200 amp in the house then sub panel#1 in detached garage then sub panel#2 from sub panel #1 in barn.
What size ground do you need to run from the disconnect panel to your 200 amp distribution panel?
What gauge is that jumper wire? 4 gauge?
How u run 220 v connection from sub panel to load ( where t connect neutral cable) is neutral cable goes in ground bar?
How about when you run out of common space?
Great video . Question please, I have a new Eaton 200 amp csr 25k main panel and i dont get the purpose of the green bonding screw as i have a left buss and a right buss does it really make a difference for my ground and common of which to run the wires to?
Great explanation thank you. Ray
Thank you! This was very helpful refreshing my memory since it’s been a while wiring my last service.
gorgeous wire management
so in the main panel you can put the neutrals & the grounds on the same bars that has a grounding screw in it and on the sub panel you have to separate the neutrals from the grounds with a separate grounding bar.
tunnelwind1 yes this is true. This is to prevent objectionable current, or a current loop in which current travels back to the main panel or source on not just the neutral but also the ground wires and metal parts attached essentially energizing things that shouldn’t be energized. This is why sometimes people get shocked by stuff and not know why.
This video is from 2018, but I sure hope you monitor the comments, and can answer my question. As I was replacing the breakers in my panel, which are constantly getting false tripping, I have to disconnect the pig tail. The screw for the ground bar has a square hole in it, and a slot that you should be able to use a flat screwdriver to loosen. Well, the electrician must have been Godzilla because it's so tight that they start to strip instead of loosen. I've tried a #1, 2, and 3 square bits, but they don't fit in the square hole. Which bit are you using to tighten the screw in your video?
Hello Ben, what is the reason for not adding Neutral wires to the additional (new) ground bar in a bonded distribution panel? You stated this at the very beginning of the video.
It is just not permitted by code. It could theoretically "work" but it just is not allowed.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Thank you for your quick reply. I appreciated your video, well done. I am a subscriber.
As you say, it theoretically works because this additional equipment grounding bar is an extension of the neutral bar in a bonded panel. Of course this is not the case on a subpanel where the neutral and equipment grounding conductors should never be mixed. I have not been able to find the code which directly speaks about this so when you mention it I sought your help. Once again thank you for your response.
Enrique Ferreira because it would create a current loop which is called objectionable current per the nec. It means the current would not only flow back on the neutral but also the grounds of it were done in such a manner. That’s why it’s only done at the main panel or first means of disconnecting, otherwise if you took a meter and measured voltage on various grounds around the house you would see voltage which is what you don’t want. The supply power on all power lines have the ground bonded with the neutral which is why in small place or towns that feed residential areas you only see two wires on the poles instead of three and even when three phase is supplied they only have 4 wires three hots and a ground/neutral. That’s why you only have three wires feeding your meter. Two hots and a ground slash neutral. The purpose of the ground being bonded to the neutral is in case of faults so the current has a low impedance path back to the source which essentially is the neutral or return path for current, without it whatever neutral or hot wire that touched a metal surface would energize it and it would stay energized without tripping the breaker and create a shock hazard for people. Sorry didn’t mean to get so in-depth just spreading some knowledge to you.
But it is ok in the main panel correct? Also what gauge side to connect New bar. I have 100 amp service. Ty
@@shemicdee780 Yes, it is okay ONLY in the Main panel (Main Disconnect). Use a #6 wire to connect your additional/new ground bar to the manufacturer's provided neutral bar, which, in the case of a Main Disconnect panel, is bonded to the manufacturer's provided ground bar typically via a green screw. The ground bar, the neutral bar and the panel's case are all bonded together at that point. Of course, never do this in a sub panel.
You have a good video tutorial Benjamin. I have one thiing to know if i can put the 100 amps circuit breaker to sub panel? Why i ask this, because my main panel in the basement is 100 amps. What will you recomend? Thank you in advance.
Do you use a neutral termination kit for the ground wire from the main? Or is it a specific grounding termination kit for those large ground wires?
My sub panel is in same house about 25 ft away, do I need ground rods?
Well done, easy to process and apply, Thank you!
Canada is so far ahead of the states when it comes to bonding, we don’t bond any grounds to the neutral bar we bond them to the enclosure. When bonding the grounds to neutral bars you will ALWAYS have a parallel current path if the bonds aren’t insulated or touching the enclosure. If you’re using EMT this wouldn’t be a problem. By adding that jumper wire you’ve added resistance to you’re fault path not good. You ground at 2 locations? No idea why you’d need 2 points of ground not to mention you landed the ground conductor to the bonds which serves no purpose.
Benjamin
Nice Video, I have a question, would I have to add two bus bars (ground and neutral) to my main panel if I don't have room on the current bar to add my generator hook up.
dallee709 If your main panel is the first means of disconnect meaning that’s the first place the wires come from the meter and first place you can disconnect power to your panel then you only need one bar since the neutral and ground are bonded together in the main panel. However if it were a sub panel you would need to keep the neutral and ground separate, but in your case it’s a main panel so you only need one additional bar and you can attach grounds and neutrals in that panel.
Thank you Kenneth. What size side do you recommend to ground New bus bar to current bus bar. And I'm thinking to ground it to the bus bar on my right as I look at my panel. The ground coming from the street is tied into bus bar on my left. Thank you
Just want to make any inspector happy
Thanks so much...I didn't know that and I have the same box