NOTE FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING PLACIDUSAX ISN'T ELDEN LORD BASED ON THE JP: 1) I haven't dismissed it I just disagree - firstly there are those who have translated who disagree with this take: www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/vcaesz/placidusax_is_as_much_an_elden_lord_as_godfrey_in/ To quote a comment on this threads from u/LaMi_1: "I know Japanese. I can tell you that, from エルデの王 and エルデ王, there's no big difference: these are just two different terms for say the same thing. You can translate both of them as "Eld King", let's say." Another from TH-camr Doogman Guy: th-cam.com/video/Yw6ni2QCqc8/w-d-xo.html He confirms the same term from Elden Starts (Eld Stars) is used in Placidusax (Eld Lord) 2) Second from a practical perspective: I do understand there are translation discrepancies sometimes but you have to remember that Miyazaki does ultimately oversee the translations and approve them (as noted in the book 'You Died'). So while nuances are missed I doubt that something as massive as mislabelling something as Elden Lord would occur. For example the Gloam-Eyed Queen was named 'Dusk Eyed' in the Godslayer Greatsword' upon release, but was changed in a later patch. If this was a mistranslation surely this also would have been cleaned up? As calling someone an Elden Lord by 'mistake' would be a massive correction needed. TLDR; 1) there are people who have translated JP who flat out say it can be related to Elden Lord and 2) Miyazaki wouldn't let a whopper like this slip
Its good that you stand your ground my friend. Also, I do want to say your theory and speculation about Gransax fighting and betraying Placidusax makes so much sense. If you pay attention Placidusax has a attack move where he thrusts the Bolt of Gransax (made out of red gold lighting) into the ground to attack the player with a huge and devastating lighting strike from above. It would make sense that Gransax saw that Placidusax was 'calm' and indifferent about Marika and The erdtree getting more powerful, and wanted to mind his own business, and Gransax saw them as a threat and did not like that Placidusax did not take any actions to weaken the erd trees rule, so he fought Placidusax, Possibly took Placidusaxes spear (Bolt of Gransax) and rallied his allies to attack the capital. That event is probably when Placidusaxes god flee cause she knew that they can't undone what Gransax is about to do.
There's something interesting regarding your theory on Gransaax overthrowing Placidusax: If Placidusax truly does reflect his namesake of being calm, then it's possible that he initially wanted the ancient dragons and the newly favored humanity to co-exist peacefully, but Gransaax and his ego had a hissy fit and pulled his coup, only to fail. And the rather sad conclusion would have been that Placidusax was right: Godwyn showed that humanity and dragonkin could not only co-exist, but thrive together in their co-existence as fellow Greater Will chosen adherents and that fighting one another was horribly pointless and destructive for both sides. In a strange way, if Placidusax wasn't so grievously wounded and time-locked, he may have helped bring back together Erdtree society after the Night of the Black Knives, or even have made circumstances for said night to never even happen at all. The pointless loss of a calm, wise lord at the hand of an impulsive megalomaniac child would thus cause the domino effect of destruction that neither could have imagined.
I'm being *selfish* as a non-Japanese speaker/reader for saying this, but it's a shame this wasn't an English-first game as far as the script goes. I've run into at least 3 times that the English translation was at least debatable, and two of those times it was just outright misleading. And then the fandom gets into these (sometimes overly heated) disagreements as English-speaking fans that amount to... linguistic conjecture. Because, like, we can't settle on *semantics.*
Wow man, such kind words just make your day, thank you! "I'm here because of Smough" is a thing on our channel. Thank you for nucleating the lore community and for demonstrating the strength of synthesis. Will contribute more bricks and together we build!
Of course my man, your incredible perception of the environmental storytelling essentially rewrote my understanding of Farum Azula! Keep up your awesome work
This is my favorite lore video so far. The dragons in this game are so cool and powerful, and our boy SmoughTown and you other lore sleuths did a fantastic job showcasing this
Powerful community appreciation! 🤓👍 Love to see it, and Love what you guys do. Thank you Smough, Thank you Tarnished and everyone else for what you do. Powerful Souls community
I think the idea of Placidusax as the father of ancient dragons is really interesting. That would imply that the ancient dragons are like the past demi gods. That might deepen the meaning behind the imagery of the Godrick fight. Maybe the reason he feels a kinship to the modern dragons is because they are lesser descendants of the more powerful demi gods like him? great video. thought provoking as always.
When this game first came out I thought I heard something about the ancient dragons being related to some of the demi gods..I can't remember where or exactly why tho
@@seventyfour8256 oh no. I know that story. I forgot why but I watched some lore videos and I think the reason the golden order and by extension the demi gods feel so close to the dragons is because the dragons wees blessed by the erd tree. Because of this Forces like the tree sentinel became draconic and the dragon cult and church happened with lanthrax. Forgot how to spell her name. Even with that info idk why the people of the golden order and the demi gods feel like they're related to the dragons.
My personal theory regarding modern dragons is they did live along side ancients but for one reason or another they forsaked whatever primordial god the ancients followed a took refuge in the mountains. Likely in their isolation they became more animalistic and weak allowing the giants to overthrow them. It’s possible that being forsaken from their god caused them to go mad with time similar to the trolls. It’s possible they typical fire dragon is just another form of the mountain dragons who changed to suit their environment once ousted from the mountains.
Thank you everyone for watching my take on the Dragons. Let me know your thoughts below and don't forget to subscribe for more Elden Ring Lore Content!
So glad to see the Tarnished Archeoligist getting some love. I find his essays very insightful and thought provoking. Would love to see his channel pump up some numbers more quickly. Another banger of a thoughtful and well researched video Smough!
I don’t see many people talking much about this, but I always thought it interesting that Placidusax’s pose before the battle starts seems just like the Two Fingers’ pose when they are waiting for an answer from the Greater Will, and I don’t know what to make of that.
Yes!!! I noticed that also! And how the lore mentions the beast man using their "five fingers", and we don't know how many heads Placidusax originally had. Did the dragon god that fled have 5 fingers, or was represented by a five finger vassal like modern day Two Fingers to communicate with them? OR after the Beastmen gained intelligence & with intelligence comes violence/domination, was it them, or their kin, or humans/numens - something with five fingers - that rebelled in order to dethrone Placidusax to get to the elden beast to overthrow the GW? It makes me think of Maliketh, if he had became a lord or demigod level beastman that tried to overthrow him, or the GW, & was then punished to "serve" Marika as her shadow after the age of dragons ended. He is called her "half-brother", so beastmen must be related to humans, or numens, I assume. I need to watch some lore vids on him, this is only my 3rd ER lore vid I've seen. Such an amazing game!!
I think it is worth noting, Chalcolithic means the Copper Age, the first metal used by humans which served to replace stone tools. The Crucible is apparently tied with "red gold", but the items of red gold look a lot like copper, with its ruddy hue. I think this is more evidence that the story is presenting a legendary retelling of the rise of civilization in the real world. Humans first used stone tools, then copper, then bronze (a mix of copper and tin), to finally iron tools. So the Crucible's association with "red gold" is, I think, instead an association with a legendary form of copper. Just a theory.
Super interesting. I've been feeling something similar to this as well. The corrupted state *of the world we are given in elden ring, juxtaposed with the false absolution of the golden order, and outer gods without physical forms to be interpreted resemble humanities current struggle against capital greed and corporate entities looming over everyone's livelihood, at the expense of everything. Bringing complete ruin and refusing to acknowledge its shortcomings, doing all it can to continue to exist in its desired state. To be an actual human being today, and going up against the powers that be. There's a lot of parallels. For context, I am also not especially sober at the moment so take that information and do with it what you will. =)
Odd I just picked up a sword today called the Eochaid Regal blade, and it’s blade consists of this reddish hue metal, and even says that “it’s coppery metal allows the wielder to infuse the blade with their will to make the blade dance.” If pure gold is used to keep outer gods away and pure “copper” can be infused with ones Will what can other metals do?
Also dragons in cultural mythology (especially eastern mythology) are often described as being chimeras of extremely deadly or well-respected animals. It makes sense then that a dragon would rule over a primordial age of beast-men.
Not sure if somebody pointed this out in the comments yet, but regarding the age of the crucible and the age of the dragons being the same, it is worth noting that the three aspects of crucible life embodied by the talismen; horn, wing and scale, are all features of dragons. Add in the crucible incantations; Horn, Breath and Tail, and you still have draconic features. So i think there is grounds to believe that dragons were indeed parts of crucible life, embodying all aspects melded into it.
Yet another absolute banger from SmoughTown, not even a week after his last one. Your output and quality of work is seriously incredible man, keep up the good work!
The dragons shall never be forgotten, we knightes fought valiantly but for everyone of them we lost three score of our own, exhilaration pride hatred rage, the dragons teased out our dearest emotions
Dragons have always been a key ingredient for any high fantasy story, fitting symbols of unachievable strength, wisdom, and intelligence similar to the concept of the "castle in the sky" which has recently seen more use (aside from Ghibli, and Elden Ring, it features in the Dragon Age lore); a fittingly unreachable home. Thank you for delving into the topic, and methodically working from topic to topic, while giving us beautiful visuals. Another wonderful video 🙏 thank you for the hard work!
Honestly, this makes me wanting more for an Ancient Dragon DLC. I think we need more explaination with these than Miquella as I think Miquella is a complete character.
Miquella does have some tangential links to the Farum Azula civilization, the Tarnished Archaeologist video about the beastmen mentioned in the video touches on this
Yeah, we need a dlc where we get to see what Farum Azula was like before it got borked, possibly even before it became a city in the sky. I always loved the connections between Darkroot and the Royal Wood in the ds1 dlc and wouldn't mind getting to see something similar in Elden Ring.
At 43:50, you miss a third option: the Beastmen are the evolutionary ancestors of modern humans. Early humans could be Draconians, later evolving further to the humams we see today in the Lands Between. Evidence for this thought process is that undead Beastmen can actually drop the "Human bone shard" item, implying that they too are (precursors of) humans. Furthermore, this would tie in nicely to the thematics of the Beastmen; they symbolise early humans and mimick our own historic development. It then makes sense that they also represent our evolutionary history. With part of the Beastmen evolving into humans, the two could have coexisted for a very long time. Similarly to how different races of humans have coexisted (Neanderthals, etc.). When the Golden Order took over, the Beastmen that remained could no longer die due to Destined Death being sealed, explaining why even now they still exist. Draconians seem to have somewhat similar features to very early humans. It might be good enough grounds to look into whether this fits the timeline as well (evolution obviously takes a huge amount of time, which is the main issue with this theory). But perhaps the dragons' time manipulation might be used as an excuse if it doesn't line up. Lastly, if we follow this theory, the primordial gods being overthrown by their children in the creation myth might be represented by the Order of Placidusax being overthrown by humans (their distant evolutionary "children" and/or a lifeform they helped shape into the modern humans we see today in the LB through gifts such as granting the Beastmen intelligence) to create the Golden Order.
@@davidgomez3044 I see no humans left in Farum Azula, so where would they find the bodies to take bones from. Furthermore, the undead Beastmen are not made of human bones, you cannot fashion a human skull into the Beastman skull that they have. So I doubt that this is possible. It seems clear to me that the undead Beastmen are Beastman skeletons that live in death, just as human skeletons do. So the fact that they drop human bone shards is either an oversight by the developers, or it is a subtle hint that Beastmen and humans are somehow evolutionarily connected.
@@Timbo5000 There are depictions of humans in Farum Azula, and we know of the Draconians. There are several candidates for humans they could have sacrificed to make the Beastmen. Ancient Dragons can literally transform from dragons to humans… so fashioning a beast skull from a human skull isn’t exactly beyond belief. That isn’t what I think happened, however. Rather I think they used chimera-like magic to attach a beast skull to a human body skeleton, so that it may stand upright. That would make the Beastmen chimeras of sorts, and that checks out perfectly, as we see chimeras depicted in the walls of the Farum Greatbridge and throughout Farum Azula. If there is actually precedent for their society creating chimeras (mixing features of various species), then that theory is the most likely. Maybe humans descend from Beastmen, but look at their name. Beast-man. It echoes the basic naming structure of demi-human or man-serpent, both of which came from blending humans with other animals. Following that convention, beast-men would be a blend of beast and man, obviously implying man must have already existed to create Beastmen.
@@davidgomez3044 Except: 1. We have no evidence to state that demihumans come from human hybridization with fauna. They exist as their own race, unlike the man-serpents. 2. What else would you call a beast with the general form of a man? The name is given by outsiders. We don't know what beastmen call themselves, let alone their actual language. 3. Beastmen are explicitly stated in bestial incantations to be beasts granted intelligence. In other words, they were not fused piles of human bone and flesh. They were beasts, and then, they were Beastmen. End of story. They are older than humans, but younger than Dragons. As for human depictions on Farum Azula, they only look human to us. Think about the Numen for a second. Are they humans? No. Do they look like them? Yes. Are they far older than humans? Yes.
This video might be the single most professional and flawless piece of Soulsbourne lore analysis committed to film. I'm in awe at the quality Smough is dropping these days.
Placidusax - the calm...before the storm? On the golden wing membranes of dragons: gold stays conductive longer and it doesn't tarnish like copper and silver. Fitting for immortals who use lightning. As for the beastmen, I wonder if they valued gold highly already, and thus they valued dragons who "wear" it on their wings, or they begun valuing gold because of dragons, as a type of worship/mimicry.
Interesting point about the Gravity magic possibly being part of what has moved Farum out of time. Gravity has a direct effect on the passing of time in real physics. Conversely, if time was manipulated it could have drawn the meteor to it because of how intertwined time and gravity are.
@@geordiejones5618 I don't see how evergaols are connected with gravity magic proper, but gravity magic can rip open holes in space time which could probably be used to get things in and out of the evergaol.
That s a fantastic take! But, correct me, if i m wrong, wasn t it said, that Placidusax was able to travel through time? Or at least manipulate the flow of time to his desire? When the dragons ( Gransaxx ) attacked Lyendell, it collpased the dragonworship there, ending the age of dragon cult under the golden order. That caused Marika to wage war against dragons and she marched Godfrey (with some sort of army?) into the dragons, which led to Godfrey chopping off 1 of Placidsuax's heads. I cannot remembere where i got this from right now, but i ll turn in proof as soon as i find it. Furthermore you can still encounter some Crucible knights, trying to fend off unending hoards of beastmen from themselves. (Crucible knights were under the command of Godfrey, if i m right.) - Why would they be fighting? Dragons lost that conflict pretty hard. And with 1 head down and the last of the ancient dragons in battle or at the very least, the army of Lyendell on their way; Placidusax gathered all of the remaining dragons and everything of the city, that he could get a hold of and sort of "ripped" it out of place, pulling it "beyond time" (creating some sort of massive storm [of time]). That endet the siege and caused a stalemate. I got that from another lorevideo about Elden Ring's ancient dragons. On top of one of the Outer Divine Towers you can almost see Farum Azula. For how or when Placis Mausoleum got struck by a Meteor... I have no explanation for that. - could ve been the star that was sent with the elden beast in it. (perhaps the greater will didn t like dragons attacking his new and precious order?) - some even think, that it was "the fell god" of the giants, that literally fell from the skies in an avalanche of fire? - could have even been something completely unrelated. Some sort of falling star beast, that we maybe don t even know, from the primeval current.
Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but the being that wounded could have been Godfrey. I think this because of how Tiamat was slain in mythology. Basically, a Storm God called Marduk defeated Tiamat and used her corpse to forge the land, which also cemented the rule of that generation of Gods. So substitute Marduk with Godfrey, and use the fact that by defeating Placidusax cements Marika's Golden Order, in my opinion, that's why I can think that the one who could wound Placidusax was Godfrey.
Farum Azula is said to be a mausoleum for Placidusax and was crumbling since time immemorial, so that might have predated Godfrey's birth. In my opinion, the Stormlord was probably the Stormhawk King, and said bird's ashes are even found close to Stormveil Castle, at the Chapel of Anticipation.
My theory on where Farum Azula was located before being set in the sky is at the are you face Radahn. The Farm Greatbridge leads practically right to the overlooking cliff, which is also rather shear, and has (what I take to be) Beastmen Ruins (pillars and stonework, though I could be mistaken of it's origin.
I agree. There's also the great black structures stretching out over the arena, almost like a port. If Farum Azula was ever intended to be a floating/flying temple, then it could have anchored itself there quite easily.
You're one of the best Loretubers ever at this point. Really hope to see something about the environmental storytelling overall, and how the cosmic horror and dark fantasy themes play off one another. I've seen a couple people suggest The Lands Between is something literally between several planets, kind of like a supernatural/interdimmensional schelling point, and thats why several Gods have competed for eons to control it. Would love to know what you think of the timescale in the game too. I love to think of the Golden Order existing tens of thousands of years by the time of our arrival, while the Dragons, Giants and the Erdtree itself stretching nearly a million years. No idea about the sorcerers but Nox seem to fall in between.
Thanks Geordie, really appreciate those kind words! Will keep striving to produce good content! But yeah agree I think I need to cover a video on the nature of the Lands Between!
Too bad there hasn't been a precise timing sense within the Elden Ring universe, no particular mention of passing days, weeks, or years (the "many moons" line from Ranni is too vague for me to speculate). Although it's the writers' choice to make things more ambiguous & mysterious. But for the loreseekers, it's a frustation dat they truly wish to be exempted from. Based on our usual documentation sense, any events will be marked on the calendar as a setting stone for future historians to refer to. It's discovered & taught within our understanding nature to remember certain events based on time & date from the calendar. In-game, since there wasn't any official or wandering historians to mark the date for any events in the Lands Between, it would've made sense as speculation dat most of the scholarly inhabitants of the Lands Between went cuckoo/hollow for times longer than we could've speculate. God, I wish there was a Maester Gildayn (asoiaf) figure within the Elden Ring to better speculate the time of events dat had happened within the Lands of Between. Whether he/she is right or wrong, it would've been interesting if there's another historian to entail the exact truth of said events that had happened.
@@autruff18 I agree! The closest we have to historians are Turtle pope and Gideon the all knowing, and luckily it does feel like what they say isn't incredibly biased or untruthful, although by all means they seem like pretty biased characters. I do wish the order of events and actual time frames were expanded upon tho
@@SmoughTown so watching your video again. I wonder why you assume that Granssax is the younger and Placidusax is the elder? To me it seems just as likely that the old man stormed Leyndell which gave Placidusax that ability to seize control. I think Granssax was betrayed at the last minute and still put up a crazy fight by himself. The Royal Capital became his tomb forever, but it also led to the genocide of his people. But to me Placidusax seems like the in between physiologically that connects the ancient dragons like Granssax to the modern dragons that survived the war.
DAYUM. This was absolutely epic! As little solid info as we havs about the ancient dragons and Farum Azula, one would expect no two people could ever agree much on any theory or speculation, but I'm really on the same page as you with all of this, and I couldn't have said it better, myself. Fantastic work.
One of the most fascinating subjects in soulsborne history. The dragons always seem to be used then tossed aside as tools smh. Thank you for this take and awesome content as always.
I always thought it was strange that to reach Placidusax you have to lay down in a grave and that he is surrounded by a bunch of beastman graves. Maybe like the Erdtree burial he was feeding on the bodies almost like he himself was a primeval Erdtree. Might be why he can bend time and why the city still floats after all the years it's been up there.
It's disgusting how much effort goes in to these videos. You're spoon feeding me the information and I'm not even keeping up with it. Thank you for your hard work.
This was so worth the wait- I can’t wrap my head around how you maintain such engaging quality videos all the way through, or the sheer depth of great fiction writing in this game for the lore hungry
Just from a design standpoint, Placidusax was the most visually striking dragon to find, especially what it takes to find him. This video helps me respect him and the shrouded parts of his story so much more. Thank you for this and all of your videos! I love the attention-to-detail and will check out the channels you suggested. Warm regards from San Francisco 😊
The way you describe the friendship between Foritssax and Godwyn gives me chills. Love this video, it's given me a lot of inspiration for my Elden Ring characters
The ancient dragons are definitely an my most favorite enemies. They are so damn badass looking and their lore is all the same. Thank you for this awesome video, I really like your style. Here's hoping we get some Dragon DLC Witz more fights, lore and sick dragon incantations.
I definitely believe that the "God that abandoned the Dragons" was Marika, this is the first I've heard someone else mention something along those lines. Considering we know the dragons can take a human form, and Marika is known for her "mischief" (see Mimic Veil) I think it's likely she is the missing God. Placidusax is obviously trying to speak to the Greater Will, why would it do that if it had a different Outer God during his time? This also lends credence to the idea Marika's children were born sickly because she was not originally a human, her Omen children bore horns, the Misbegotten have wings and scales as well, Crucible Knights bearing Horns, Tails, and Breath attacks are all akin to Dragons. Dragons have horns right? Honestly I think the game is too grand and the way ideas move around in development not all of it fits as nicely as we'd like. But it would be strange if the missing God was just a random being that left without a trace. (The misbegotten are clearly children of Radagon but it makes sense his children would have similar growths)
I mean, it’s also confirmed she had at least seven bastard demigod children while Queen of the Lands Between. She then of course has her five biological children and her three step children. And her many, many descendants.
Absolutely blew my mind with this speculation, Marika maybe being a dragon makes so much sense in ways. Can’t recall completely but I remember reading Marika is described as long-lived and possible related to the Numen but not actually stated to BE numen. What else is long lived if not the ancient dragons?
@@AlbertusSalvatierra its GRRM, he had to add in a Mother of Dragons and big weird family plots right? Plus the Mogh and Miquella relationship seems rather incestuous, we're 3 for 3 lol
I assumed that too until I Dragonlord's Remembrance closely the text never refers the God as a she or a her just 'it' so assume it was about the Greater Will
Beautiful video of my favorite subject matter in Elden Ring, and n which imho, you perfectly summarize the reasons why Placidusax is my favorite boss ever in gaming. He’s enigmatic when you encounter him and hints towards an entire age within the world, crafting so much world building and blending it with such an incredible fight. Bravo to you and your presentation, thank you.
Epic vid man, the last line gave me chills. What if rather than choosing to live outside time, Placidusax is actually imprisoned outside time burdened to keep Farum Azula floating in the sky with his mighty power. It would make sense why the dragons, if they did in fact rebel, kept placidusax alive so Farum Azula would stay in the sky and be protected.
Given that a bunch of Farum’s ruins are all over Limgrave and parts of Liurnia, I think Astel is the meteorite that rocked Farum Azula, which is why the sword has gravity magic. Given Astel’s position as well in accordance with the broken parts all over Limgrave and Liurnia, this makes sense to me.
I honestly believe that not only does the farum great bridge mean that it could be ties to that spot but if you also look in Radahns arena along the cliff face you’ll see Farum Azula architecture along the entire wall. Which leaves me to believe that the spot where you fight radahn was where farum azula was actually once located. Because everything around there is gone.. completely like it was torn away and left there.
My first character was a dragon priest (sort of) so this was awesome! And I just wanna say thank you for all the work you do! This was a fascinating deep dive, and I appreciate the cinematic quality!
I really wonder when and how Gransax died, the damage to the city looks relatively recent but it could also be that his carcass is just so massive and difficult to remove that Leyndell just left it there as a sort of grim monument. But then you'd think they'd build and repair up and around the body, unless Leyndell was already in decline before that could happen.
Another excellent Elden Ring lore video from the Master himself! You untangled so much mystery in such a professional manner, it’s eye-opening as usual. Keep it coming chief! My own fan-fiction theory on the ancient dragons is as follows (warning, long post ahead!): in times before history, The Greater Will sent its first primordial Elden Ring to the Lands Between, making one indigenous creature (the one who was to become the Dragon God) its First Vassal God. This God’s mission was to build the word, plant the seed of the Crucible and grant intelligence to lesser races (the Beastmen) to develop early civilizations. Aided by its Elden Lord Placidusax, their three children (Gransax, Fortissax and Lansseax - the demigods of that time) and the rest of the ancient dragons, the Dragon God ruled over the old world much like Marika did in her time a lot later. However, while the Greater Will was able to share its power with all living things through the Crucible (the primordial source of all blended life), these early divine blessings didn't extend to a power of control. Diverse early civilizations flourished (Uhl, later Nox etc.) who were worshipping other outer gods or principles (rot, stars etc.). There was order but also freedom of will, and the dragons were mostly distant wardens of the word rather than despotic monarchs. And as we’ve seen with the Golden Order, the Greater Will likes order but also uniformity of will (cf. The Two fingers wanting to “control” the empyrean Ranni, which indicates that it did also want to control Marika - since the purpose of empyreans is to become a Vassal God - and through her the entire world). The Greater Will felt that the benevolent dragons were too permissive and risked the rise of other outer gods in the Lands Between. Therefore, as it was not able to control its first Vassal Dragon God (since dragons were too pure a creation, notably due to their control over time), the Greater Will chose the nuclear option: it created the Second Elden Ring and sent it as a Golden Star to Farum Metropolis. Among the destruction of the city, the Elden Ring sprang from the fallen Star and transformed into the Elden Beast, who kicked the ass of Placidusax and chopped off most of its heads. Realizing the menace, and not wanting to oppose its outer god to whom it was still loyal, the Dragon God, in a last act of selfless sacrifice, used all its divine power to lift the rubbles of the city in the sky (becoming Farum Azula) and hide it beyond time, saving its Elden Lord, its three children and the rest of the ancient dragons. The Elden Beast then killed off the much weakened Dragon God and absorbed its first Elden Ring, making for the more refined and powerful Elden Ring that we will come to know. The Elden Beast then (maybe much later) looked to the newest of the most advanced societies around, the Numen - who had just arrived from a distant land/world and built a civilization that will become the Nox - and chose one of them (Marika) to become its Second Vassal God (advanced humans being useful vessels while also easy to control, unlike dragons). Meanwhile Placidusax (not knowing that its Dragon God consort died) decided to wait beyond time as long as necessary until its return. A long time later, probably around the end of the Age of Plenty, right before the rise of Radagon and the Golden Order, three children of the Dragon God and Placidusax (Gransax, Fortissax and Lansseax), tired of eternally waiting for salvation, decided to take maters into their own hands, launch an attack on the usurper Marika and bring back their race to glory. The rest is history. Sorry for the long comment, I took many liberties with the lore but I like to think of the dragon story in a way that would make for a good movie in my head ^^. Many thanks for providing many ideas that inspired me!
I believe the entire chunk missing was in fact farum. Being one of the primordial powers in the world, i wouldnt be surprised if they once ruled over such a large chunk of land. and that the the capital of this land was farum azula (maybe had a different name/azula added after it rose to the sky). but as the order changed, and placidusax lost influence and his god fled, he tore farum out. over the years it crumbled and placidusax manipulated time in the center of the storm to prolong his rule. idk thats my head canon atleast
Seems like Placidusax was written in the same line as Gwyn from Dark Souls. It could've been pride & jealousy since the Greater Will had chosen a lesser being with strengths incomparable to that of the mighty dragons. Since Placidusax was kinda chill (speculation) with dat transaction of power. Gransax wont hav it with dat kind of spite from the Greater Will. It's kinda like Morningstar being told by God to bow down before us. Then he denied to emote that kindly gesture, thus being fallen from Grace forever since.
Top notch work, as always! I am so glad that Elden Ring has brought out so many great lore channels. Thank you for crediting other creators when they helped develop your theory or have relevant videos. It shows you respect other creators and it helps the community grow.
Amazing work yet again man, keep it up. I always rewatch these videos a 2 or 3 time after you post them just to really take in how much you put into the videos.
My eyes practically rolled out of my head when I started seeing item descriptions and stuff talking about "ancient dragons" in ER. Felt way, way too much like retreading the same ground in a game full of retreading. To be fair, once I started digging into the lore, the concept does differentiate itself from the original Dark Souls' ancient dragons, but still. Just because it's dragons does not mean that they inherently must be some sort of ancient dominating species that used to run the world before shenanigans ensued. ER was a big missed opportunity to do something original with the idea of dragons, imo. Fantastic vid, love your channel.
Dragons in the souls universe gets screwed over a lot but at least in elder ring not all of the dragons went extinct, unless you want them to be extinct.😔🐱
Doesn't dragons in Dark Souls II were more praised? Especially in the first DLC, where there existed a whole civilization which worshiped a one Dragon.
I can't take out the dragons. I feel terrible. I ended Greyoll on accident once, I was trying to farm her for Dragon hearts and ended up putting her down on accident. Broke my heart. I only took out Agheel and the Lichdragon purposefully.
Your statement describing the dragons use of its red lighting and how it connects with the crucible and greater will is just fantastic. Backed up by contextual evidence and multiple items descriptions. Amazing research and explanation man you’re KILLING IT. Best thing to fall asleep to after a busy day.
Opened youtube at the best time it seems, bout to get some joints rolled and hot choccy made, no doubt it will be as amazing and well thought out as the last. Keep up this top tier work my dude
@@SmoughTown I thought that placidusax was elden lord to an unknown outer god, but man do you take extreme care with the construction of your arguments and evidence. Great video, as always.
Thanks for this! You've touched on my favorite topic of the game. I always seemingly end up fascinated with what came before, held true since Oblivion and me getting sucked into the Dwemer lore right to the Dragons and the Beast Men of Farum Azula.
All your videos are so well thought out and put together. I hope to see an increase in views and subscribers soon because you really deserve it! Hope you have a good week smough and can’t wait for the next one.
This one has got to be my fav lore vid of yours by far. Excellent use of item descriptions, environmental storytelling, and solid speculation with ties to IRL mythology and ancient history. The dragons of fromsoft games have always been well thought out, and I think in this game they got a special treat with how subtlety yet profoundly influenced The Lands Between. Great works as always, looking forward to your next lore vid :)
You really give me a new more complete view and apprecation of elden ring lore and story telling in general. Each of your videos teaches me so much about the lore and is just really cool in general. So much info and thematics i never noticed. Very Nice
I'm commenting before this video is over so far so amazing! You know just what music to play at the right time. I am so excited every day you post a video. I hope you have many more to grace our ears! Much love man!
Great analysis! Love how you touched on a lot of stuff people ignore when it comes to the Greater Will’s relation to the Ancient Dragons, their civilization, and the nature of life. The Greater Will being the progenitor of life and individual existence itself is something made pretty clear from both Hyetta’s dialogue and its association with the Crucible, but a lot of people seem to deny it’s the case for some reason and I’m not quite sure why that is. I do like the idea of the Greater Will being something beyond even the other Outer Gods, but I think the most likely scenario is that while it is a “higher-order being” than the other Outer Gods, it still falls under that label. It’s the counterpart of the Frenzied Flame (Order vs Chaos, Two Fingers vs Three Fingers) and the way Hyetta talks about it, it seems like the Frenzied Flame is whatever is left of the One Great after the Greater Will divided it to create life. Overall a subject that is deliberately left vague, though. The most interesting question as far as the Ancient Dragons’ origins goes, which you didn’t really touch on, is where exactly Greyoll fits into everything. She's called "the mother of all dragons”, but her design is that of one of the modern dragons rather than an Ancient Dragon, and the only reference to her in the lore outside of the Dragonbarrow’s existence is her incantation’s item description. While said to be larger than all of her spawn, Gransax is nearly twice as large as her, implying to me she might be the progenitor of only the modern dragons and not the ancient ones (which were likely spawned from Placidusax and his god, or from the Greater Will or Crucible directly as you theorize). The last thing I’d like to touch on is the relation between the Ancient Dragons and the Nox. I’ve seen theories that the Fingerslayer Blade - which is said to be made out of a corpse and has a spine built into it just like the Sacred Relic Sword - was made out of the corpse of Placidusax’s god (I know Quelaag for one has suggested this theory). It’s possible that the Nox were contemporaries of the Ancient Dragons (at least near the end of their era) and brought about the downfall of their civilization. I’m not sure if the Dragons would have necessarily needed to crush all rival civilizations - that feels much more like Marika and Godfrey’s thing than it does something inherent to the Greater Will’s servants in general. The Nox were explicitly hostile to the Greater Will, though, which does raise some questions about why the Dragons don’t seem to have any direct relation to them conflict-wise. As an aside I will note that the Greater Will’s relation to its Empyreans/vassal gods and chosen civilizations seems to be kind of a “Mandate of Heaven”-type deal
The lore master returns! Another excellent video, as always! My initial interpretation was that Gransax was sent by Placidusax to attack the capital in hopes of reclaiming the Elden Ring, but I think I like your theory of Gransax acting on his own better since it seems like Placidusax hasn't budged from his current spot in Farum Azula after his God (who I refer to as the Crucible God) vanished. If I may offer my own crazy theories, I believe that Crucible God was most likely a Numen, and that Placidusax had children with the Crucible God, one of whom became Marika. I believe this has some merit since the ancient dragons are shone to have stone-like features, and Marika herself appears to be made of stone (though this could be a side-effect of the Elden Ring, so I acknowledge I need more evidence to support my theory) and it is stated that Marika herself was a Numen. The reason why I'm convinced Marika was a child of Placidusax and Crucible God is due to her being called an Empyrean. We know based on Ranni's quest that Empyreans are the chosen offspring of gods who are meant to usher in a new age. I think Marika was chosen to be an Empyrean to usher in the Age of the Erdtree and thus replace the former age of the Crucible. This could also explain the conflict between Marika, Gransax, and the Gloam-eyed Queen. What if they were all related in some way, were each chosen as Empyreans to establish a new age after the Crucible, and ultimately Marika won out? However, I am aware that the Gloam-eyed Queen could have been Marika herself, but to be honest I'm not convinced of that theory though I do understand why it is popular. Obviously there are still loads of questions to be answered and I have a lot of work to do to polish my own theory (I'm still desperately trying to figure out the meaning of wolves in relation to everything) and I hope I can come up with something more solid by the time your next lore video drops! Thanks again for your continued hard work and for creating what is, in my opinion, the best Elden Ring lore content on YT!
Another amazing video. I just really admire your scholarly take on citation and use of outside reference to provide context for your theories. Its just...chef's kiss. Great stuff.
Good video! This is about to be a long comment encapsulating my thoughts on the ER timeline and your video helped fill in a couple gaps. I think the god which created TLB and the Crucible from which life emerged was almost certainly The One Great. Placidusax was probably its Elden Lord considering the 5 heads. It says Farum Azula began to crumble when it was hit by a meteor. I like to think that meteor was the Elden Beast itself, as TOG split into the Greater Will/Frenzied Flame, and the dragon's god "left". Placidusax may have lost his heads at the impact and kept all but 2 to signify the GW's dominance. What he was Elden Lord of before the beast containing the ring came may have just been the Crucible itself, but it is certain the beast is a vassal of the GW. Alternatively, Placidusax may have ruled under TOG, then controlled the ring and the Crucible for a time before Marika. The beast likely merged with the Crucible and attached itself to the original Great tree. Marika the Numen is born and chosen as an Empyrean by the Fingers that have popped up to interpret the GW, and she gets Maliketh as her shadow. The choosing of Marika as an Empyrean means the Dragon's time is coming to an end. She merges with the ring/beast itself and marries Godfrey to wage war. Now it is a little unclear what happens first, or how much time passes between each war. We can assume that the Dragon War happens first, because it is said the ice dragons, which are not ancient dragons, ruled the mountaintops before the fire giants took over. So Gransax attacks the capital that is built around the newly forming Erdtree that is still very Crucible like. We can assume the Erdtree is growing at this time, connected at the roots to the Great tree, and so all the war and death is feeding it rapidly. This is the time where its blessings and amber drip down. War with the dragons likely lasted a very long time, as it wasn't over until Godwyn befriended Fortisax, so long enough for Marika and Godfrey to have at least one of their three children grow up. Anyway, dragons lose, dragon cult springs up in the capital, Erdtree keeps growing. It's also theorized that the Storm lord that Godfrey faces could have been Placidusax, slicing off those heads, and forcing him to retreat beyond time, but I more suspect that he did that to commune for answers about why he lost control of the ring and never fought the dragon war. Eventually the fire giants move in the mountaintops and Marika realizes their Fel God's flame can harm the new Erdtree. Godfrey handles that too with help from some allies but they imprison the last one because Marika realizes there may come a time where she needs to plot against the GW and the flame is the only recourse. They install the fire monks to guard the secret of the flame as well, but that turns out to be a bad idea. Over time, the capital continues to expand its control and fights multiple wars with the Carians which all stalemate until "Radagon" marries Renalla. Once Godfrey dispatches his last foe and basically maximizes their territory, he is banished, and Radagon returns to the capital to "marry" Marika. The Erdtree has reached its zenith at this point, and the Crucible is a distant memory, as are things associated with it. I like the theory that Radagon was always an aspect of Marika after she merged with the ring and could be two forms in one. People theorize about how Placidusax could have been Elden Lord if the lord is just the consort to the god who embodies the ring but perhaps Placidusax with his five heads had a similar multi-soul situation to Marika/Radagon. This is when the Erdtree begins to decline. The Godskin apostasy begins, and some fire monks betray their duty to worship the godslaying black flame. I also believe the apostasy was begun by the Numen of the eternal cities, and was the heresy that got them banished underground. We can piece together that the gloam eyed queen (possibly a child of Marika) was able to channel the rune of death within the ring and bring destined death. Between the godskins of the movement, and the fingerslaying blade, it was a problem that led Marika to seal the rune with Maliketh. The sealing of the rune of death creates the Golden Order proper, having always been flawed by its rejection of natural death. The Erdtree stops growing and becomes stagnant along with everything else. That is, until the Night of Black Knives, when Godwyn is killed. When he is buried, deathroot seeps into the land. They disconnect the Erdtree from its roots (also could have been done when death was sealed) but it still spreads. Soon, the ring is shattered, the Erdtree splinters, in full tilt, and the seeds of the minor Erdtrees are spread. The size of the minor ones gives an idea of how long it's been since the shattering. And how long this comment has been. If you read this long, I hope you enjoyed!
The dragons were, are and will forever still be the supreme apex predators of fiction! We need a video on rennala, ranni, the moon(I mean really look at it and you’ll notice something interesting) and the carian royal family. The ancient dragons have such cool designs. Placidusax’s god was the elden beast! Since you’re not saying I will do that instead. Glad you’re finally covering the dragons. Wasn’t there something said about Godfrey fighting the storm lord that possibly was placidusax? I would love a video on the modern dragons.
Your lore research is very good, but something I really love is your voice. Your voice is so calming and relaxing and the accent you have makes it real nice for sleeping. Keep up the good work
It's always been cool to me the contrast between the everlasting dragons in Souls and the ancient dragons of Elden Ring. They both have stone scales, but lightning is the secret to defeating dragons in Dark Souls, whereas the Elden Ring ancient dragons wield it themselves. Just a cool little difference between the two
I'm at a loss for words brother, your lord videos are on par with Vaati. Even better in my opinion. Keep up the good work man. You just gained a subscriber ❤️❤️ You can hear the passion in your voice and that alone is a very telling. Cheers
I don’t really have any thoughts - it’s all simply amazing. Though I do have a request of topic. I don’t know if there’s much to go by, but I’d like to see something regarding the politics of the Lands Between (before game), as well as royal families and their relations and affects in society
@@klefthoofrobert787 Yeah - mostly just about how the royal family operated and how its members affected and influenced the Lands Between - like Radagon with fundamentalism, or when Godrick was granted the title “Golden” in the later years - stuff like that
Just started this one, loving it so far. Very excited to dive in and learn more about the dragons. They’re easily my favorite race in the game and I would love to see how they ruled the lands in the past. That could be a sick prequel 👀
I always wondered why that wasn’t a choice we could make. Restoring the more draconic elden ring and have a new order with the remaining ancient dragons. I personally have my build as a dragon lighting knight and use pretty much just the red lighting😂
I miss being able to physically change myself to imitate dragons(DS3) or become a nascent dragon(DS1). I like the dragon breaths and the dragon claw and jaw sure, but just looking like one with my eyes changing is kind of not enough. I hope in the DLC we get to see more of a physical change and a buff that comes along with it.
You are honestly the best when it comes to these lore videos. It's not even close, in my eyes. This game is so huge and it's amazing how you piece everything together.
This video (like every other video you produce) is very well done. I find all of this lore to be very interesting and I love exploring the overarching themes that the world of Elden Ring presents. You’ve done it again, and I’m anticipating the next iteration of this enticing lore series!
Ah, you've finally arrived you really took your time eh? No matter as long as this information serves the tarnished it's fine and well to. A true fellow indeed....
I honestly think GRMM wrote a lot more lore for Elden Ring than him or Miyazaki will reveal. Miyazaki's work has a lot of anthropology to it, but GRMM's work is all about anthropology and connecting certain historical ties with fantasy ones. The Two fingers and the Elden Beast are also similar, to me, to the Sandking drones in the way that they're connected to the Greater Will
@@SmoughTown I have a theory that Patches is a reference to Patchface (also referred to as "patches" several times in the books) from ASOIAF, especially with the theme of putting on a friendly face for a darker purpose. He's most similar to his original self from the books in bloodborne. In the books it is theorized that Patches is tricking Shireen Baratheon into becoming a sacrifice for the drowned god and his fishmen, in Bloodborne Patches tricks you into becoming a sacrifice for the Amygdala.
@@SmoughTown The Golden Order, while it sounds like would have more similarities to House Lannister, the Dynasty has more in common to do with the Dragon Lords of Old Valyria. They did not kill the dragons, they made a pact with them, even wove their blood magic with those of the dragons. Even mated with them apparently, just like Elden Ring implies happens with the dragon priestess.
I recently have been meditating on Elden rings themes and I just wanted to get out a truth I've identified. Red/crucible= Id, blue/primeval current= ego, gold/Erdtree= super ego. With these in mind I now see the matrix, I swear.
NOTE FOR PEOPLE CLAIMING PLACIDUSAX ISN'T ELDEN LORD BASED ON THE JP:
1) I haven't dismissed it I just disagree - firstly there are those who have translated who disagree with this take: www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/vcaesz/placidusax_is_as_much_an_elden_lord_as_godfrey_in/
To quote a comment on this threads from u/LaMi_1: "I know Japanese. I can tell you that, from エルデの王 and エルデ王, there's no big difference: these are just two different terms for say the same thing. You can translate both of them as "Eld King", let's say."
Another from TH-camr Doogman Guy: th-cam.com/video/Yw6ni2QCqc8/w-d-xo.html
He confirms the same term from Elden Starts (Eld Stars) is used in Placidusax (Eld Lord)
2) Second from a practical perspective:
I do understand there are translation discrepancies sometimes but you have to remember that Miyazaki does ultimately oversee the translations and approve them (as noted in the book 'You Died'). So while nuances are missed I doubt that something as massive as mislabelling something as Elden Lord would occur. For example the Gloam-Eyed Queen was named 'Dusk Eyed' in the Godslayer Greatsword' upon release, but was changed in a later patch.
If this was a mistranslation surely this also would have been cleaned up? As calling someone an Elden Lord by 'mistake' would be a massive correction needed.
TLDR; 1) there are people who have translated JP who flat out say it can be related to Elden Lord and 2) Miyazaki wouldn't let a whopper like this slip
Hell yea stand thy ground!
@@Graff-z4x Thanks dude!
Its good that you stand your ground my friend. Also, I do want to say your theory and speculation about Gransax fighting and betraying Placidusax makes so much sense. If you pay attention Placidusax has a attack move where he thrusts the Bolt of Gransax (made out of red gold lighting) into the ground to attack the player with a huge and devastating lighting strike from above. It would make sense that Gransax saw that Placidusax was 'calm' and indifferent about Marika and The erdtree getting more powerful, and wanted to mind his own business, and Gransax saw them as a threat and did not like that Placidusax did not take any actions to weaken the erd trees rule, so he fought Placidusax, Possibly took Placidusaxes spear (Bolt of Gransax) and rallied his allies to attack the capital. That event is probably when Placidusaxes god flee cause she knew that they can't undone what Gransax is about to do.
There's something interesting regarding your theory on Gransaax overthrowing Placidusax:
If Placidusax truly does reflect his namesake of being calm, then it's possible that he initially wanted the ancient dragons and the newly favored humanity to co-exist peacefully, but Gransaax and his ego had a hissy fit and pulled his coup, only to fail. And the rather sad conclusion would have been that Placidusax was right: Godwyn showed that humanity and dragonkin could not only co-exist, but thrive together in their co-existence as fellow Greater Will chosen adherents and that fighting one another was horribly pointless and destructive for both sides.
In a strange way, if Placidusax wasn't so grievously wounded and time-locked, he may have helped bring back together Erdtree society after the Night of the Black Knives, or even have made circumstances for said night to never even happen at all. The pointless loss of a calm, wise lord at the hand of an impulsive megalomaniac child would thus cause the domino effect of destruction that neither could have imagined.
I'm being *selfish* as a non-Japanese speaker/reader for saying this, but it's a shame this wasn't an English-first game as far as the script goes. I've run into at least 3 times that the English translation was at least debatable, and two of those times it was just outright misleading.
And then the fandom gets into these (sometimes overly heated) disagreements as English-speaking fans that amount to... linguistic conjecture. Because, like, we can't settle on *semantics.*
Wow man, such kind words just make your day, thank you! "I'm here because of Smough" is a thing on our channel. Thank you for nucleating the lore community and for demonstrating the strength of synthesis. Will contribute more bricks and together we build!
Of course my man, your incredible perception of the environmental storytelling essentially rewrote my understanding of Farum Azula! Keep up your awesome work
Two Greats
I have been loving both of your elden ring content.
This is my favorite lore video so far. The dragons in this game are so cool and powerful, and our boy SmoughTown and you other lore sleuths did a fantastic job showcasing this
Powerful community appreciation! 🤓👍 Love to see it, and Love what you guys do. Thank you Smough, Thank you Tarnished and everyone else for what you do. Powerful Souls community
My god that Placidusax footage though… As always Smoughtown’s in-game cinematography and shot composition is freaking Gorgeous
Thanks dude
Timestamp on the footage please?
@@wisemonki990 25:30
I love the designs of the ancient dragons in Elden Ring. I think they are a work of art.
Me too, love that there is a clear split between modern and ancient dragons
They need to let us mount them 😢
My favorite is Lichdragon Fortissax
@@BigWickEnergy_They aren't out for the count as of yet there's still a chance for them.
@@nbmoleminer5051 Elden rings devs are beyond incompetent for not adding any content that would hold their player base. Such a waste of potential smh
I think the idea of Placidusax as the father of ancient dragons is really interesting. That would imply that the ancient dragons are like the past demi gods. That might deepen the meaning behind the imagery of the Godrick fight. Maybe the reason he feels a kinship to the modern dragons is because they are lesser descendants of the more powerful demi gods like him? great video. thought provoking as always.
Damn nice way to see his character 😯
When this game first came out I thought I heard something about the ancient dragons being related to some of the demi gods..I can't remember where or exactly why tho
@@rushpatriot2866 Perhaps you heard avbout Lichdragon Fortissax, who was a good friend of Godwyn?
@@seventyfour8256 oh no. I know that story. I forgot why but I watched some lore videos and I think the reason the golden order and by extension the demi gods feel so close to the dragons is because the dragons wees blessed by the erd tree. Because of this Forces like the tree sentinel became draconic and the dragon cult and church happened with lanthrax. Forgot how to spell her name. Even with that info idk why the people of the golden order and the demi gods feel like they're related to the dragons.
My personal theory regarding modern dragons is they did live along side ancients but for one reason or another they forsaked whatever primordial god the ancients followed a took refuge in the mountains. Likely in their isolation they became more animalistic and weak allowing the giants to overthrow them. It’s possible that being forsaken from their god caused them to go mad with time similar to the trolls. It’s possible they typical fire dragon is just another form of the mountain dragons who changed to suit their environment once ousted from the mountains.
Thank you everyone for watching my take on the Dragons. Let me know your thoughts below and don't forget to subscribe for more Elden Ring Lore Content!
Love your videos and draggggonns
It’s become a morning habit to watch your videos and eat breakfast 🤣
Thanks so much! Been waiting for this one and so happy it's up early.
@@PbAndJamess Means the world that you enjoy my content! thank you
@@TrueHylianKnight I hope you enjoy it lloyd!
Who needs the house of the dragon when you have Smoughtown? \o/
Iorveth please stop trying to watch my house, its a mayor breach of privacy
@@one-eyed-dragon I'm sorry man I'll go watch some rings then
•________•
@@iorveth1790 *echoing voice*
''FOUL TARNISHED. IN SEARCH, OF THE ELDEN RING.''
*swoosh*
*crash*
''EMBOLDENED BY THE FLAME OF AMBITION.''
Best comment! I tried but that show loves incest 🤮
So glad to see the Tarnished Archeoligist getting some love. I find his essays very insightful and thought provoking. Would love to see his channel pump up some numbers more quickly. Another banger of a thoughtful and well researched video Smough!
Thanks Rab! And yeh TA is actually on another level, I'm hoping to drive some traffic his way.
tarnished archeologist literally scalped me (figuratively) with his well researched videos truly 😂
I don’t see many people talking much about this, but I always thought it interesting that Placidusax’s pose before the battle starts seems just like the Two Fingers’ pose when they are waiting for an answer from the Greater Will, and I don’t know what to make of that.
That is a really cool observation, I find out new things about Placidusax all the time
Yeah! Plus His heads are also helixing which is such a huge theme in this game
Being a transmitter/receiver.
If the 5 heads idea is correct, then he is essentially "the hand of the golden order/god"
Yes!!! I noticed that also! And how the lore mentions the beast man using their "five fingers", and we don't know how many heads Placidusax originally had. Did the dragon god that fled have 5 fingers, or was represented by a five finger vassal like modern day Two Fingers to communicate with them? OR after the Beastmen gained intelligence & with intelligence comes violence/domination, was it them, or their kin, or humans/numens - something with five fingers - that rebelled in order to dethrone Placidusax to get to the elden beast to overthrow the GW? It makes me think of Maliketh, if he had became a lord or demigod level beastman that tried to overthrow him, or the GW, & was then punished to "serve" Marika as her shadow after the age of dragons ended. He is called her "half-brother", so beastmen must be related to humans, or numens, I assume. I need to watch some lore vids on him, this is only my 3rd ER lore vid I've seen. Such an amazing game!!
I think it is worth noting, Chalcolithic means the Copper Age, the first metal used by humans which served to replace stone tools. The Crucible is apparently tied with "red gold", but the items of red gold look a lot like copper, with its ruddy hue. I think this is more evidence that the story is presenting a legendary retelling of the rise of civilization in the real world. Humans first used stone tools, then copper, then bronze (a mix of copper and tin), to finally iron tools. So the Crucible's association with "red gold" is, I think, instead an association with a legendary form of copper.
Just a theory.
that actually makes sense
Super interesting. I've been feeling something similar to this as well. The corrupted state *of the world we are given in elden ring, juxtaposed with the false absolution of the golden order, and outer gods without physical forms to be interpreted resemble humanities current struggle against capital greed and corporate entities looming over everyone's livelihood, at the expense of everything. Bringing complete ruin and refusing to acknowledge its shortcomings, doing all it can to continue to exist in its desired state. To be an actual human being today, and going up against the powers that be. There's a lot of parallels. For context, I am also not especially sober at the moment so take that information and do with it what you will. =)
Odd I just picked up a sword today called the Eochaid Regal blade, and it’s blade consists of this reddish hue metal, and even says that “it’s coppery metal allows the wielder to infuse the blade with their will to make the blade dance.” If pure gold is used to keep outer gods away and pure “copper” can be infused with ones Will what can other metals do?
Copper is also good at conducting energy or lightning
@@PowderKegRed copper, silver, and gold all are, copper and gold being the most prevalent.
Also dragons in cultural mythology (especially eastern mythology) are often described as being chimeras of extremely deadly or well-respected animals. It makes sense then that a dragon would rule over a primordial age of beast-men.
Writè mè nöw✌️…
Not sure if somebody pointed this out in the comments yet, but regarding the age of the crucible and the age of the dragons being the same, it is worth noting that the three aspects of crucible life embodied by the talismen; horn, wing and scale, are all features of dragons. Add in the crucible incantations; Horn, Breath and Tail, and you still have draconic features. So i think there is grounds to believe that dragons were indeed parts of crucible life, embodying all aspects melded into it.
i agree with this, the beastmen and misbegotten seem like a return to that age
Yet another absolute banger from SmoughTown, not even a week after his last one. Your output and quality of work is seriously incredible man, keep up the good work!
Thank you AJ!
Couldn't agree more. I learned more about Elden Ring's setting listening to you then I did listening to VaatiVidya.
The dragons shall never be forgotten, we knightes fought valiantly but for everyone of them we lost three score of our own, exhilaration pride hatred rage, the dragons teased out our dearest emotions
That's Hawkeye Gough's dialog right?
@@pushpitkumar99 Yes
Dragons have always been a key ingredient for any high fantasy story, fitting symbols of unachievable strength, wisdom, and intelligence similar to the concept of the "castle in the sky" which has recently seen more use (aside from Ghibli, and Elden Ring, it features in the Dragon Age lore); a fittingly unreachable home.
Thank you for delving into the topic, and methodically working from topic to topic, while giving us beautiful visuals. Another wonderful video 🙏 thank you for the hard work!
Really great analogy, and thank you so much Mio. As always your support is much appreciated
I love dragon age and it's lore. Your reference to the golden city is pretty interesting
Honestly, this makes me wanting more for an Ancient Dragon DLC. I think we need more explaination with these than Miquella as I think Miquella is a complete character.
Same in regards to wanting more Ancient Dragon content but I want more Miquella/Trina content too.
I would expect this with a Godwyn centric DLC given his past
ancient dragons and st. Trina. That way they can re-introduce dream brew into the game.
Miquella does have some tangential links to the Farum Azula civilization, the Tarnished Archaeologist video about the beastmen mentioned in the video touches on this
Yeah, we need a dlc where we get to see what Farum Azula was like before it got borked, possibly even before it became a city in the sky. I always loved the connections between Darkroot and the Royal Wood in the ds1 dlc and wouldn't mind getting to see something similar in Elden Ring.
Beastmen culture has always been such a fascinating thing for me - thx for this
My pleasure and thanks for your support as always
Same
At 43:50, you miss a third option: the Beastmen are the evolutionary ancestors of modern humans. Early humans could be Draconians, later evolving further to the humams we see today in the Lands Between.
Evidence for this thought process is that undead Beastmen can actually drop the "Human bone shard" item, implying that they too are (precursors of) humans.
Furthermore, this would tie in nicely to the thematics of the Beastmen; they symbolise early humans and mimick our own historic development. It then makes sense that they also represent our evolutionary history. With part of the Beastmen evolving into humans, the two could have coexisted for a very long time. Similarly to how different races of humans have coexisted (Neanderthals, etc.). When the Golden Order took over, the Beastmen that remained could no longer die due to Destined Death being sealed, explaining why even now they still exist. Draconians seem to have somewhat similar features to very early humans.
It might be good enough grounds to look into whether this fits the timeline as well (evolution obviously takes a huge amount of time, which is the main issue with this theory). But perhaps the dragons' time manipulation might be used as an excuse if it doesn't line up.
Lastly, if we follow this theory, the primordial gods being overthrown by their children in the creation myth might be represented by the Order of Placidusax being overthrown by humans (their distant evolutionary "children" and/or a lifeform they helped shape into the modern humans we see today in the LB through gifts such as granting the Beastmen intelligence) to create the Golden Order.
Really great shout Regis
I disagree strongly. The beast skeletons dropping human bones could simply suggest that they are MADE of humans or human corpses.
@@davidgomez3044 I see no humans left in Farum Azula, so where would they find the bodies to take bones from. Furthermore, the undead Beastmen are not made of human bones, you cannot fashion a human skull into the Beastman skull that they have. So I doubt that this is possible. It seems clear to me that the undead Beastmen are Beastman skeletons that live in death, just as human skeletons do. So the fact that they drop human bone shards is either an oversight by the developers, or it is a subtle hint that Beastmen and humans are somehow evolutionarily connected.
@@Timbo5000 There are depictions of humans in Farum Azula, and we know of the Draconians. There are several candidates for humans they could have sacrificed to make the Beastmen.
Ancient Dragons can literally transform from dragons to humans… so fashioning a beast skull from a human skull isn’t exactly beyond belief. That isn’t what I think happened, however. Rather I think they used chimera-like magic to attach a beast skull to a human body skeleton, so that it may stand upright.
That would make the Beastmen chimeras of sorts, and that checks out perfectly, as we see chimeras depicted in the walls of the Farum Greatbridge and throughout Farum Azula.
If there is actually precedent for their society creating chimeras (mixing features of various species), then that theory is the most likely.
Maybe humans descend from Beastmen, but look at their name. Beast-man. It echoes the basic naming structure of demi-human or man-serpent, both of which came from blending humans with other animals. Following that convention, beast-men would be a blend of beast and man, obviously implying man must have already existed to create Beastmen.
@@davidgomez3044 Except:
1. We have no evidence to state that demihumans come from human hybridization with fauna. They exist as their own race, unlike the man-serpents.
2. What else would you call a beast with the general form of a man? The name is given by outsiders. We don't know what beastmen call themselves, let alone their actual language.
3. Beastmen are explicitly stated in bestial incantations to be beasts granted intelligence. In other words, they were not fused piles of human bone and flesh. They were beasts, and then, they were Beastmen. End of story.
They are older than humans, but younger than Dragons. As for human depictions on Farum Azula, they only look human to us. Think about the Numen for a second. Are they humans?
No.
Do they look like them?
Yes.
Are they far older than humans?
Yes.
This video might be the single most professional and flawless piece of Soulsbourne lore analysis committed to film. I'm in awe at the quality Smough is dropping these days.
Thank you my friend
Placidusax - the calm...before the storm?
On the golden wing membranes of dragons: gold stays conductive longer and it doesn't tarnish like copper and silver. Fitting for immortals who use lightning.
As for the beastmen, I wonder if they valued gold highly already, and thus they valued dragons who "wear" it on their wings, or they begun valuing gold because of dragons, as a type of worship/mimicry.
The gold "membrane" is actually where their scales have fallen off and flesh is exposed. It's in one of Zullies videos.
@@Argonak1 makes sense for their entire body to be conductive because of it
Interesting point about the Gravity magic possibly being part of what has moved Farum out of time. Gravity has a direct effect on the passing of time in real physics. Conversely, if time was manipulated it could have drawn the meteor to it because of how intertwined time and gravity are.
Am I the only person who thinks the Evergaols use some kind of gravity magic just because of the purple?
@@geordiejones5618 You're definitely not the only one. I've seen a video suggesting exactly that and I agree.
@@geordiejones5618 I don't see how evergaols are connected with gravity magic proper, but gravity magic can rip open holes in space time which could probably be used to get things in and out of the evergaol.
That s a fantastic take!
But, correct me, if i m wrong, wasn t it said, that Placidusax was able to travel through time? Or at least manipulate the flow of time to his desire?
When the dragons ( Gransaxx ) attacked Lyendell, it collpased the dragonworship there, ending the age of dragon cult under the golden order.
That caused Marika to wage war against dragons and she marched Godfrey (with some sort of army?) into the dragons, which led to Godfrey chopping off 1 of Placidsuax's heads. I cannot remembere where i got this from right now, but i ll turn in proof as soon as i find it.
Furthermore you can still encounter some Crucible knights, trying to fend off unending hoards of beastmen from themselves.
(Crucible knights were under the command of Godfrey, if i m right.) - Why would they be fighting?
Dragons lost that conflict pretty hard. And with 1 head down and the last of the ancient dragons in battle or at the very least, the army of Lyendell on their way; Placidusax gathered all of the remaining dragons and everything of the city, that he could get a hold of and sort of "ripped" it out of place, pulling it "beyond time" (creating some sort of massive storm [of time]).
That endet the siege and caused a stalemate.
I got that from another lorevideo about Elden Ring's ancient dragons.
On top of one of the Outer Divine Towers you can almost see Farum Azula.
For how or when Placis Mausoleum got struck by a Meteor... I have no explanation for that.
- could ve been the star that was sent with the elden beast in it. (perhaps the greater will didn t like dragons attacking his new and precious order?)
- some even think, that it was "the fell god" of the giants, that literally fell from the skies in an avalanche of fire?
- could have even been something completely unrelated. Some sort of falling star beast, that we maybe don t even know, from the primeval current.
Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but the being that wounded could have been Godfrey. I think this because of how Tiamat was slain in mythology.
Basically, a Storm God called Marduk defeated Tiamat and used her corpse to forge the land, which also cemented the rule of that generation of Gods.
So substitute Marduk with Godfrey, and use the fact that by defeating Placidusax cements Marika's Golden Order, in my opinion, that's why I can think that the one who could wound Placidusax was Godfrey.
Farum Azula is said to be a mausoleum for Placidusax and was crumbling since time immemorial, so that might have predated Godfrey's birth. In my opinion, the Stormlord was probably the Stormhawk King, and said bird's ashes are even found close to Stormveil Castle, at the Chapel of Anticipation.
Also worth noting that Marduk's weapon of choice at that time was a great battle axe
Huge thanks to smough again, once again proving that Elden ring really is more than just a game, but indeed a work of art!🎉
Couldn't agree more Evelyn!
My theory on where Farum Azula was located before being set in the sky is at the are you face Radahn. The Farm Greatbridge leads practically right to the overlooking cliff, which is also rather shear, and has (what I take to be) Beastmen Ruins (pillars and stonework, though I could be mistaken of it's origin.
I agree. There's also the great black structures stretching out over the arena, almost like a port. If Farum Azula was ever intended to be a floating/flying temple, then it could have anchored itself there quite easily.
"Farm greatbridge" and your first sentence need some correction
You're one of the best Loretubers ever at this point. Really hope to see something about the environmental storytelling overall, and how the cosmic horror and dark fantasy themes play off one another. I've seen a couple people suggest The Lands Between is something literally between several planets, kind of like a supernatural/interdimmensional schelling point, and thats why several Gods have competed for eons to control it. Would love to know what you think of the timescale in the game too. I love to think of the Golden Order existing tens of thousands of years by the time of our arrival, while the Dragons, Giants and the Erdtree itself stretching nearly a million years. No idea about the sorcerers but Nox seem to fall in between.
Thanks Geordie, really appreciate those kind words! Will keep striving to produce good content! But yeah agree I think I need to cover a video on the nature of the Lands Between!
Too bad there hasn't been a precise timing sense within the Elden Ring universe, no particular mention of passing days, weeks, or years (the "many moons" line from Ranni is too vague for me to speculate). Although it's the writers' choice to make things more ambiguous & mysterious. But for the loreseekers, it's a frustation dat they truly wish to be exempted from. Based on our usual documentation sense, any events will be marked on the calendar as a setting stone for future historians to refer to. It's discovered & taught within our understanding nature to remember certain events based on time & date from the calendar.
In-game, since there wasn't any official or wandering historians to mark the date for any events in the Lands Between, it would've made sense as speculation dat most of the scholarly inhabitants of the Lands Between went cuckoo/hollow for times longer than we could've speculate. God, I wish there was a Maester Gildayn (asoiaf) figure within the Elden Ring to better speculate the time of events dat had happened within the Lands of Between. Whether he/she is right or wrong, it would've been interesting if there's another historian to entail the exact truth of said events that had happened.
@@autruff18 I agree! The closest we have to historians are Turtle pope and Gideon the all knowing, and luckily it does feel like what they say isn't incredibly biased or untruthful, although by all means they seem like pretty biased characters. I do wish the order of events and actual time frames were expanded upon tho
@@SmoughTown so watching your video again. I wonder why you assume that Granssax is the younger and Placidusax is the elder? To me it seems just as likely that the old man stormed Leyndell which gave Placidusax that ability to seize control. I think Granssax was betrayed at the last minute and still put up a crazy fight by himself. The Royal Capital became his tomb forever, but it also led to the genocide of his people. But to me Placidusax seems like the in between physiologically that connects the ancient dragons like Granssax to the modern dragons that survived the war.
DAYUM. This was absolutely epic! As little solid info as we havs about the ancient dragons and Farum Azula, one would expect no two people could ever agree much on any theory or speculation, but I'm really on the same page as you with all of this, and I couldn't have said it better, myself. Fantastic work.
Thank you so much, I tried to go as deep as possible on this one and it's great to hear you agree!
One of the most fascinating subjects in soulsborne history. The dragons always seem to be used then tossed aside as tools smh. Thank you for this take and awesome content as always.
My pleasure dude!
I always thought it was strange that to reach Placidusax you have to lay down in a grave and that he is surrounded by a bunch of beastman graves. Maybe like the Erdtree burial he was feeding on the bodies almost like he himself was a primeval Erdtree. Might be why he can bend time and why the city still floats after all the years it's been up there.
Writè mè nöw✌️…
It's disgusting how much effort goes in to these videos. You're spoon feeding me the information and I'm not even keeping up with it. Thank you for your hard work.
Thank you Derek, you don't know how much it means to hear that! More to come
I just read Enuma Elish for a college class a week or two, so connecting Elden Ring to that story is some pretty neat timing. Great video as always!
By far the best video I've seen from this channel and on Elden Ring lore. So well put together, so enlightening.
This was so worth the wait- I can’t wrap my head around how you maintain such engaging quality videos all the way through, or the sheer depth of great fiction writing in this game for the lore hungry
Just from a design standpoint, Placidusax was the most visually striking dragon to find, especially what it takes to find him. This video helps me respect him and the shrouded parts of his story so much more. Thank you for this and all of your videos! I love the attention-to-detail and will check out the channels you suggested. Warm regards from San Francisco 😊
The way you describe the friendship between Foritssax and Godwyn gives me chills. Love this video, it's given me a lot of inspiration for my Elden Ring characters
The ancient dragons are definitely an my most favorite enemies. They are so damn badass looking and their lore is all the same. Thank you for this awesome video, I really like your style.
Here's hoping we get some Dragon DLC Witz more fights, lore and sick dragon incantations.
Writè me nöw✌️….
Elden ring lore is so complex. I really appreciate channels that explain it in such detail
I definitely believe that the "God that abandoned the Dragons" was Marika, this is the first I've heard someone else mention something along those lines. Considering we know the dragons can take a human form, and Marika is known for her "mischief" (see Mimic Veil) I think it's likely she is the missing God. Placidusax is obviously trying to speak to the Greater Will, why would it do that if it had a different Outer God during his time? This also lends credence to the idea Marika's children were born sickly because she was not originally a human, her Omen children bore horns, the Misbegotten have wings and scales as well, Crucible Knights bearing Horns, Tails, and Breath attacks are all akin to Dragons. Dragons have horns right? Honestly I think the game is too grand and the way ideas move around in development not all of it fits as nicely as we'd like. But it would be strange if the missing God was just a random being that left without a trace. (The misbegotten are clearly children of Radagon but it makes sense his children would have similar growths)
I mean, it’s also confirmed she had at least seven bastard demigod children while Queen of the Lands Between. She then of course has her five biological children and her three step children. And her many, many descendants.
Absolutely blew my mind with this speculation, Marika maybe being a dragon makes so much sense in ways. Can’t recall completely but I remember reading Marika is described as long-lived and possible related to the Numen but not actually stated to BE numen. What else is long lived if not the ancient dragons?
@@Shikari93 Very well noted!
@@AlbertusSalvatierra its GRRM, he had to add in a Mother of Dragons and big weird family plots right? Plus the Mogh and Miquella relationship seems rather incestuous, we're 3 for 3 lol
I assumed that too until I Dragonlord's Remembrance closely the text never refers the God as a she or a her just 'it' so assume it was about the Greater Will
Beautiful video of my favorite subject matter in Elden Ring, and n which imho, you perfectly summarize the reasons why Placidusax is my favorite boss ever in gaming. He’s enigmatic when you encounter him and hints towards an entire age within the world, crafting so much world building and blending it with such an incredible fight. Bravo to you and your presentation, thank you.
Epic vid man, the last line gave me chills. What if rather than choosing to live outside time, Placidusax is actually imprisoned outside time burdened to keep Farum Azula floating in the sky with his mighty power. It would make sense why the dragons, if they did in fact rebel, kept placidusax alive so Farum Azula would stay in the sky and be protected.
Yeah this is hands down the best Elden Ring lore channel. Your content is top notch and the frequency of your output is bananas. Thank you so much 🙏🏾
Thank you friend. You honour me
I always love how well Smoughtown references his sources, especially when they are other members of the community.
Write me nöw✌️…
Given that a bunch of Farum’s ruins are all over Limgrave and parts of Liurnia, I think Astel is the meteorite that rocked Farum Azula, which is why the sword has gravity magic. Given Astel’s position as well in accordance with the broken parts all over Limgrave and Liurnia, this makes sense to me.
I honestly believe that not only does the farum great bridge mean that it could be ties to that spot but if you also look in Radahns arena along the cliff face you’ll see Farum Azula architecture along the entire wall. Which leaves me to believe that the spot where you fight radahn was where farum azula was actually once located. Because everything around there is gone.. completely like it was torn away and left there.
My guy putting out more quality movies than the freakin MCU. Much love brother
Thank you as always Ricky, your support warms my heart
@@SmoughTown im glad, you gave me the drive to keep going on my anime channel. I’ll never forget it
I appreciate you always providing Elden Ring lore content. Keep it up bro.
Thanks John, will do
My first character was a dragon priest (sort of) so this was awesome!
And I just wanna say thank you for all the work you do! This was a fascinating deep dive, and I appreciate the cinematic quality!
Thank you dude! It's honestly my privilege!
I really wonder when and how Gransax died, the damage to the city looks relatively recent but it could also be that his carcass is just so massive and difficult to remove that Leyndell just left it there as a sort of grim monument. But then you'd think they'd build and repair up and around the body, unless Leyndell was already in decline before that could happen.
Another excellent Elden Ring lore video from the Master himself! You untangled so much mystery in such a professional manner, it’s eye-opening as usual. Keep it coming chief!
My own fan-fiction theory on the ancient dragons is as follows (warning, long post ahead!): in times before history, The Greater Will sent its first primordial Elden Ring to the Lands Between, making one indigenous creature (the one who was to become the Dragon God) its First Vassal God. This God’s mission was to build the word, plant the seed of the Crucible and grant intelligence to lesser races (the Beastmen) to develop early civilizations. Aided by its Elden Lord Placidusax, their three children (Gransax, Fortissax and Lansseax - the demigods of that time) and the rest of the ancient dragons, the Dragon God ruled over the old world much like Marika did in her time a lot later.
However, while the Greater Will was able to share its power with all living things through the Crucible (the primordial source of all blended life), these early divine blessings didn't extend to a power of control. Diverse early civilizations flourished (Uhl, later Nox etc.) who were worshipping other outer gods or principles (rot, stars etc.). There was order but also freedom of will, and the dragons were mostly distant wardens of the word rather than despotic monarchs. And as we’ve seen with the Golden Order, the Greater Will likes order but also uniformity of will (cf. The Two fingers wanting to “control” the empyrean Ranni, which indicates that it did also want to control Marika - since the purpose of empyreans is to become a Vassal God - and through her the entire world).
The Greater Will felt that the benevolent dragons were too permissive and risked the rise of other outer gods in the Lands Between. Therefore, as it was not able to control its first Vassal Dragon God (since dragons were too pure a creation, notably due to their control over time), the Greater Will chose the nuclear option: it created the Second Elden Ring and sent it as a Golden Star to Farum Metropolis. Among the destruction of the city, the Elden Ring sprang from the fallen Star and transformed into the Elden Beast, who kicked the ass of Placidusax and chopped off most of its heads.
Realizing the menace, and not wanting to oppose its outer god to whom it was still loyal, the Dragon God, in a last act of selfless sacrifice, used all its divine power to lift the rubbles of the city in the sky (becoming Farum Azula) and hide it beyond time, saving its Elden Lord, its three children and the rest of the ancient dragons. The Elden Beast then killed off the much weakened Dragon God and absorbed its first Elden Ring, making for the more refined and powerful Elden Ring that we will come to know.
The Elden Beast then (maybe much later) looked to the newest of the most advanced societies around, the Numen - who had just arrived from a distant land/world and built a civilization that will become the Nox - and chose one of them (Marika) to become its Second Vassal God (advanced humans being useful vessels while also easy to control, unlike dragons). Meanwhile Placidusax (not knowing that its Dragon God consort died) decided to wait beyond time as long as necessary until its return. A long time later, probably around the end of the Age of Plenty, right before the rise of Radagon and the Golden Order, three children of the Dragon God and Placidusax (Gransax, Fortissax and Lansseax), tired of eternally waiting for salvation, decided to take maters into their own hands, launch an attack on the usurper Marika and bring back their race to glory. The rest is history.
Sorry for the long comment, I took many liberties with the lore but I like to think of the dragon story in a way that would make for a good movie in my head ^^. Many thanks for providing many ideas that inspired me!
I believe the entire chunk missing was in fact farum. Being one of the primordial powers in the world, i wouldnt be surprised if they once ruled over such a large chunk of land. and that the the capital of this land was farum azula (maybe had a different name/azula added after it rose to the sky). but as the order changed, and placidusax lost influence and his god fled, he tore farum out. over the years it crumbled and placidusax manipulated time in the center of the storm to prolong his rule. idk thats my head canon atleast
Seems like Placidusax was written in the same line as Gwyn from Dark Souls. It could've been pride & jealousy since the Greater Will had chosen a lesser being with strengths incomparable to that of the mighty dragons. Since Placidusax was kinda chill (speculation) with dat transaction of power. Gransax wont hav it with dat kind of spite from the Greater Will. It's kinda like Morningstar being told by God to bow down before us. Then he denied to emote that kindly gesture, thus being fallen from Grace forever since.
Top notch work, as always! I am so glad that Elden Ring has brought out so many great lore channels. Thank you for crediting other creators when they helped develop your theory or have relevant videos. It shows you respect other creators and it helps the community grow.
Thanks dude and my pleasure. There are so many incredible creators out there that deserve support and viewership
Amazing work yet again man, keep it up. I always rewatch these videos a 2 or 3 time after you post them just to really take in how much you put into the videos.
Thanks so much bud, that actually means a lot and helps me keep going!
My eyes practically rolled out of my head when I started seeing item descriptions and stuff talking about "ancient dragons" in ER. Felt way, way too much like retreading the same ground in a game full of retreading. To be fair, once I started digging into the lore, the concept does differentiate itself from the original Dark Souls' ancient dragons, but still. Just because it's dragons does not mean that they inherently must be some sort of ancient dominating species that used to run the world before shenanigans ensued. ER was a big missed opportunity to do something original with the idea of dragons, imo.
Fantastic vid, love your channel.
Dragons in the souls universe gets screwed over a lot but at least in elder ring not all of the dragons went extinct, unless you want them to be extinct.😔🐱
hahah - I think this is the best representation that they have had
Doesn't dragons in Dark Souls II were more praised? Especially in the first DLC, where there existed a whole civilization which worshiped a one Dragon.
Remember what happened to the dragon and the city?..Not a great ending either.
Dragons just can’t catch a break huh
I can't take out the dragons. I feel terrible. I ended Greyoll on accident once, I was trying to farm her for Dragon hearts and ended up putting her down on accident. Broke my heart. I only took out Agheel and the Lichdragon purposefully.
Your statement describing the dragons use of its red lighting and how it connects with the crucible and greater will is just fantastic. Backed up by contextual evidence and multiple items descriptions. Amazing research and explanation man you’re KILLING IT. Best thing to fall asleep to after a busy day.
Long have I awaited the story of my favorite species of Elden Ring
Writè me nöw✌️…..
Love the long videos SmoughTown, great for listening during my long commute
Thanks for letting me know Zach, honestly so grateful for the support I get
Opened youtube at the best time it seems, bout to get some joints rolled and hot choccy made, no doubt it will be as amazing and well thought out as the last. Keep up this top tier work my dude
Thank you Luke! Enjoy!
Same here, buddy! 7 minutes ago this was posted, and I’m loading the bing now. This is always the best part of my week. Big shoutout Geoff @smoughtown
@@SmoughTown No worries, always do man :D
@@kenbonds7195 Thank you so much Ken! Warms my heart that you enjoy my content so much
Same Here!!!! Opened youtube n this was my first result!
My man, you make the story of Elden ring easy to follow and comprehend. Love your work and thank you.
Thank you my friend. Your kind words mean the world!
Another amazing video Smoughtown, thanks again for the well-written insight!
Glad you enjoyed it Dae, makes it all worth it!
My life hack is to listen to Smoughs stuff when I go on long walks! Thanks for the shout out!
You are so welcome, thanks for the great discussion
Finally!!! Been waiting for this one since you started the series and it didn’t disappoint
Thanks Zeus! I've been looking forward to it as well and absolutely loved the subject
@@SmoughTown I thought that placidusax was elden lord to an unknown outer god, but man do you take extreme care with the construction of your arguments and evidence. Great video, as always.
@@kingzeus4754 Thank you Zeus, I am actually doing a video rn to dive deeper into that very subject (Greater Will v Outer God)
@@SmoughTown looking forward to it
Thanks for this! You've touched on my favorite topic of the game. I always seemingly end up fascinated with what came before, held true since Oblivion and me getting sucked into the Dwemer lore right to the Dragons and the Beast Men of Farum Azula.
All your videos are so well thought out and put together. I hope to see an increase in views and subscribers soon because you really deserve it! Hope you have a good week smough and can’t wait for the next one.
Thank you so much Yael!
This one has got to be my fav lore vid of yours by far. Excellent use of item descriptions, environmental storytelling, and solid speculation with ties to IRL mythology and ancient history. The dragons of fromsoft games have always been well thought out, and I think in this game they got a special treat with how subtlety yet profoundly influenced The Lands Between. Great works as always, looking forward to your next lore vid :)
Thank you so much dude 🙏means a lot because it’s my fave one to date
Absolutely adore your content! Keep up the great work!
Thank you my friend, will do!
You really give me a new more complete view and apprecation of elden ring lore and story telling in general.
Each of your videos teaches me so much about the lore and is just really cool in general. So much info and thematics i never noticed.
Very Nice
That's honestly amazing to hear!
As per usual, absolutely phenomenal work. These videos are always a pleasure to watch.
It's my pleasure Adam, thank you for the support
I'm commenting before this video is over so far so amazing! You know just what music to play at the right time. I am so excited every day you post a video. I hope you have many more to grace our ears! Much love man!
Means the world to me Daniel! Thank you
1:07:27 Holy shit he predicted Bayle the Dread
Great analysis! Love how you touched on a lot of stuff people ignore when it comes to the Greater Will’s relation to the Ancient Dragons, their civilization, and the nature of life. The Greater Will being the progenitor of life and individual existence itself is something made pretty clear from both Hyetta’s dialogue and its association with the Crucible, but a lot of people seem to deny it’s the case for some reason and I’m not quite sure why that is.
I do like the idea of the Greater Will being something beyond even the other Outer Gods, but I think the most likely scenario is that while it is a “higher-order being” than the other Outer Gods, it still falls under that label. It’s the counterpart of the Frenzied Flame (Order vs Chaos, Two Fingers vs Three Fingers) and the way Hyetta talks about it, it seems like the Frenzied Flame is whatever is left of the One Great after the Greater Will divided it to create life. Overall a subject that is deliberately left vague, though.
The most interesting question as far as the Ancient Dragons’ origins goes, which you didn’t really touch on, is where exactly Greyoll fits into everything. She's called "the mother of all dragons”, but her design is that of one of the modern dragons rather than an Ancient Dragon, and the only reference to her in the lore outside of the Dragonbarrow’s existence is her incantation’s item description. While said to be larger than all of her spawn, Gransax is nearly twice as large as her, implying to me she might be the progenitor of only the modern dragons and not the ancient ones (which were likely spawned from Placidusax and his god, or from the Greater Will or Crucible directly as you theorize).
The last thing I’d like to touch on is the relation between the Ancient Dragons and the Nox. I’ve seen theories that the Fingerslayer Blade - which is said to be made out of a corpse and has a spine built into it just like the Sacred Relic Sword - was made out of the corpse of Placidusax’s god (I know Quelaag for one has suggested this theory). It’s possible that the Nox were contemporaries of the Ancient Dragons (at least near the end of their era) and brought about the downfall of their civilization.
I’m not sure if the Dragons would have necessarily needed to crush all rival civilizations - that feels much more like Marika and Godfrey’s thing than it does something inherent to the Greater Will’s servants in general. The Nox were explicitly hostile to the Greater Will, though, which does raise some questions about why the Dragons don’t seem to have any direct relation to them conflict-wise. As an aside I will note that the Greater Will’s relation to its Empyreans/vassal gods and chosen civilizations seems to be kind of a “Mandate of Heaven”-type deal
The lore master returns! Another excellent video, as always!
My initial interpretation was that Gransax was sent by Placidusax to attack the capital in hopes of reclaiming the Elden Ring, but I think I like your theory of Gransax acting on his own better since it seems like Placidusax hasn't budged from his current spot in Farum Azula after his God (who I refer to as the Crucible God) vanished.
If I may offer my own crazy theories, I believe that Crucible God was most likely a Numen, and that Placidusax had children with the Crucible God, one of whom became Marika. I believe this has some merit since the ancient dragons are shone to have stone-like features, and Marika herself appears to be made of stone (though this could be a side-effect of the Elden Ring, so I acknowledge I need more evidence to support my theory) and it is stated that Marika herself was a Numen.
The reason why I'm convinced Marika was a child of Placidusax and Crucible God is due to her being called an Empyrean. We know based on Ranni's quest that Empyreans are the chosen offspring of gods who are meant to usher in a new age. I think Marika was chosen to be an Empyrean to usher in the Age of the Erdtree and thus replace the former age of the Crucible.
This could also explain the conflict between Marika, Gransax, and the Gloam-eyed Queen. What if they were all related in some way, were each chosen as Empyreans to establish a new age after the Crucible, and ultimately Marika won out? However, I am aware that the Gloam-eyed Queen could have been Marika herself, but to be honest I'm not convinced of that theory though I do understand why it is popular. Obviously there are still loads of questions to be answered and I have a lot of work to do to polish my own theory (I'm still desperately trying to figure out the meaning of wolves in relation to everything) and I hope I can come up with something more solid by the time your next lore video drops!
Thanks again for your continued hard work and for creating what is, in my opinion, the best Elden Ring lore content on YT!
Writè me nöw✌️…..
Never realized Placidusax had more than 2 heads, a 5-headed Placidusax just terrifies me. Great content as always!
Thank you so much!
imagine if placidusax had a phase 2 where time is pushed back even further, restoring his missing heads and bringing him to full strength
Damn that was a missed opportunity but the Demi gods at full strength would stomp everyone
Another amazing video. I just really admire your scholarly take on citation and use of outside reference to provide context for your theories. Its just...chef's kiss. Great stuff.
Thank you so much, I feel like I approach each video like an essay haha!
Good video! This is about to be a long comment encapsulating my thoughts on the ER timeline and your video helped fill in a couple gaps.
I think the god which created TLB and the Crucible from which life emerged was almost certainly The One Great. Placidusax was probably its Elden Lord considering the 5 heads. It says Farum Azula began to crumble when it was hit by a meteor. I like to think that meteor was the Elden Beast itself, as TOG split into the Greater Will/Frenzied Flame, and the dragon's god "left". Placidusax may have lost his heads at the impact and kept all but 2 to signify the GW's dominance. What he was Elden Lord of before the beast containing the ring came may have just been the Crucible itself, but it is certain the beast is a vassal of the GW. Alternatively, Placidusax may have ruled under TOG, then controlled the ring and the Crucible for a time before Marika.
The beast likely merged with the Crucible and attached itself to the original Great tree. Marika the Numen is born and chosen as an Empyrean by the Fingers that have popped up to interpret the GW, and she gets Maliketh as her shadow. The choosing of Marika as an Empyrean means the Dragon's time is coming to an end. She merges with the ring/beast itself and marries Godfrey to wage war.
Now it is a little unclear what happens first, or how much time passes between each war. We can assume that the Dragon War happens first, because it is said the ice dragons, which are not ancient dragons, ruled the mountaintops before the fire giants took over.
So Gransax attacks the capital that is built around the newly forming Erdtree that is still very Crucible like. We can assume the Erdtree is growing at this time, connected at the roots to the Great tree, and so all the war and death is feeding it rapidly. This is the time where its blessings and amber drip down. War with the dragons likely lasted a very long time, as it wasn't over until Godwyn befriended Fortisax, so long enough for Marika and Godfrey to have at least one of their three children grow up. Anyway, dragons lose, dragon cult springs up in the capital, Erdtree keeps growing. It's also theorized that the Storm lord that Godfrey faces could have been Placidusax, slicing off those heads, and forcing him to retreat beyond time, but I more suspect that he did that to commune for answers about why he lost control of the ring and never fought the dragon war.
Eventually the fire giants move in the mountaintops and Marika realizes their Fel God's flame can harm the new Erdtree. Godfrey handles that too with help from some allies but they imprison the last one because Marika realizes there may come a time where she needs to plot against the GW and the flame is the only recourse. They install the fire monks to guard the secret of the flame as well, but that turns out to be a bad idea.
Over time, the capital continues to expand its control and fights multiple wars with the Carians which all stalemate until "Radagon" marries Renalla. Once Godfrey dispatches his last foe and basically maximizes their territory, he is banished, and Radagon returns to the capital to "marry" Marika. The Erdtree has reached its zenith at this point, and the Crucible is a distant memory, as are things associated with it.
I like the theory that Radagon was always an aspect of Marika after she merged with the ring and could be two forms in one. People theorize about how Placidusax could have been Elden Lord if the lord is just the consort to the god who embodies the ring but perhaps Placidusax with his five heads had a similar multi-soul situation to Marika/Radagon.
This is when the Erdtree begins to decline. The Godskin apostasy begins, and some fire monks betray their duty to worship the godslaying black flame. I also believe the apostasy was begun by the Numen of the eternal cities, and was the heresy that got them banished underground. We can piece together that the gloam eyed queen (possibly a child of Marika) was able to channel the rune of death within the ring and bring destined death. Between the godskins of the movement, and the fingerslaying blade, it was a problem that led Marika to seal the rune with Maliketh.
The sealing of the rune of death creates the Golden Order proper, having always been flawed by its rejection of natural death. The Erdtree stops growing and becomes stagnant along with everything else. That is, until the Night of Black Knives, when Godwyn is killed. When he is buried, deathroot seeps into the land. They disconnect the Erdtree from its roots (also could have been done when death was sealed) but it still spreads. Soon, the ring is shattered, the Erdtree splinters, in full tilt, and the seeds of the minor Erdtrees are spread. The size of the minor ones gives an idea of how long it's been since the shattering. And how long this comment has been. If you read this long, I hope you enjoyed!
Writè me nöw✌️…..
The dragons were, are and will forever still be the supreme apex predators of fiction!
We need a video on rennala, ranni, the moon(I mean really look at it and you’ll notice something interesting) and the carian royal family.
The ancient dragons have such cool designs.
Placidusax’s god was the elden beast! Since you’re not saying I will do that instead.
Glad you’re finally covering the dragons.
Wasn’t there something said about Godfrey fighting the storm lord that possibly was placidusax?
I would love a video on the modern dragons.
No one can convince me Placidusax was not an Elden Lord. I have been Saxxed,
Holy shit man, your work ethic is SO impressive. Pumping out quality 1hr+ videos like it's nothing.
Thank you so much! Was proud of this one
Writè me nöw✌️….
Nothing is cooler than dragons and lightning
Still such a criminally underrated Souls channel. Tied for my favorite spot with The Brother’s Code and #1 if we’re just talking Elden Ring.
High praise my friend! Thank you
Dude, you are a lore machine. From Soft should hire you to write story guides for their games
I wish dude! And thank you so much
Your lore research is very good, but something I really love is your voice. Your voice is so calming and relaxing and the accent you have makes it real nice for sleeping. Keep up the good work
It's always been cool to me the contrast between the everlasting dragons in Souls and the ancient dragons of Elden Ring. They both have stone scales, but lightning is the secret to defeating dragons in Dark Souls, whereas the Elden Ring ancient dragons wield it themselves. Just a cool little difference between the two
I like the ER take more. Doesn't make much sense for lightning to be the weakness of stone.
I'm at a loss for words brother, your lord videos are on par with Vaati. Even better in my opinion. Keep up the good work man. You just gained a subscriber ❤️❤️
You can hear the passion in your voice and that alone is a very telling. Cheers
Just what I needed to hear today my friend. Thank you so much for the love means the world to me. I will do
I don’t really have any thoughts - it’s all simply amazing. Though I do have a request of topic. I don’t know if there’s much to go by, but I’d like to see something regarding the politics of the Lands Between (before game), as well as royal families and their relations and affects in society
That's a good idea but i think there's not enough lore to make a discussion about that unfortunately.
@@klefthoofrobert787 Yeah - mostly just about how the royal family operated and how its members affected and influenced the Lands Between - like Radagon with fundamentalism, or when Godrick was granted the title “Golden” in the later years - stuff like that
@@AlbertusSalvatierra I'll add it to the list, I would like to at least 'imagine' how it operated at this time
@@SmoughTown Yeah - I know it’s a bit of a murky topic, so I think imagining based on inferences is the least we can do lol
Just started this one, loving it so far. Very excited to dive in and learn more about the dragons. They’re easily my favorite race in the game and I would love to see how they ruled the lands in the past. That could be a sick prequel 👀
Thanks for your support as always dude. Means a lot from yourself!
I always wondered why that wasn’t a choice we could make. Restoring the more draconic elden ring and have a new order with the remaining ancient dragons. I personally have my build as a dragon lighting knight and use pretty much just the red lighting😂
We need this a Draconic ending.
We need a Draconic waifu
@@supersaltlee7657we have one but she's uh... Crazy
Not my cup of tea personally 😂
I love these 1H vids so much, ty for the quality of this content
It's my pleasure, I really hope you enjoy this one!
I miss being able to physically change myself to imitate dragons(DS3) or become a nascent dragon(DS1). I like the dragon breaths and the dragon claw and jaw sure, but just looking like one with my eyes changing is kind of not enough. I hope in the DLC we get to see more of a physical change and a buff that comes along with it.
You are honestly the best when it comes to these lore videos. It's not even close, in my eyes. This game is so huge and it's amazing how you piece everything together.
Time for greatness once again
Can't wait to hear your thoughts!
This video (like every other video you produce) is very well done. I find all of this lore to be very interesting and I love exploring the overarching themes that the world of Elden Ring presents. You’ve done it again, and I’m anticipating the next iteration of this enticing lore series!
@@wahy1984 I am actually really excited for the next one! Exploring the Greater Will!
@@SmoughTown Dope! It will be awesome!
I was just siting here waiting for this lol nice! Was watching another of your videos
Let me know your thoughts!
Elden Ring is really a story about how you should never trust middle management to do what you want.
Best part of this Saturday!
Enjoy Bob!
Ah, you've finally arrived you really took your time eh? No matter as long as this information serves the tarnished it's fine and well to. A true fellow indeed....
Hope you add it to your knowledge Gideon...or perhaps you already knew?
Ah this is definitely a fine information it is most welcome my fellow
Why yes I WILL watch a 90 minute video about the lore of a game I never played. Thank you very much
I honestly think GRMM wrote a lot more lore for Elden Ring than him or Miyazaki will reveal. Miyazaki's work has a lot of anthropology to it, but GRMM's work is all about anthropology and connecting certain historical ties with fantasy ones. The Two fingers and the Elden Beast are also similar, to me, to the Sandking drones in the way that they're connected to the Greater Will
Yeh I am starting to feel that way too, would love to do a video trying to really understand his influence but seems impossible
@@SmoughTown I have a theory that Patches is a reference to Patchface (also referred to as "patches" several times in the books) from ASOIAF, especially with the theme of putting on a friendly face for a darker purpose. He's most similar to his original self from the books in bloodborne. In the books it is theorized that Patches is tricking Shireen Baratheon into becoming a sacrifice for the drowned god and his fishmen, in Bloodborne Patches tricks you into becoming a sacrifice for the Amygdala.
@@SmoughTown The Golden Order, while it sounds like would have more similarities to House Lannister, the Dynasty has more in common to do with the Dragon Lords of Old Valyria. They did not kill the dragons, they made a pact with them, even wove their blood magic with those of the dragons. Even mated with them apparently, just like Elden Ring implies happens with the dragon priestess.
This IMO is your finest work. Extremely informative. Well done.
That's so awesome to hear! Thank you so much
I recently have been meditating on Elden rings themes and I just wanted to get out a truth I've identified. Red/crucible= Id, blue/primeval current= ego, gold/Erdtree= super ego. With these in mind I now see the matrix, I swear.
I was already having a nice friday evening, and then we ALSO get a SmoughTown Lore video drop? 10/10 Perfect start of the weekend
Hell yeh Benis