The Orthodox Faith is a perfect example of participatory knowledge. It just doesn't make sense truly until you enter into it. I spent 10 years on the outside looking in, trying to study and read my way into the Church. I had that anxiety about certainty that Dr. Porcu is talking about. 10 years and I still wasn't able to 'get there'. I finally took a leap of faith and planted my flag with the OC. It wasn't until I entered into the life of the Church, partaking of the mysteries etc., that it started to really connect. It's now been 10 years from that point and it's been the absolute proof for me of what's being discussed here.
It's interesting to hear your story. I've been intrigued by Orthodoxy for a long time, but haven't been able/willing to take that final step. Still too many questions, I think. But you give me good food for thought.
I attended the same Orthodox church as the guest for over a year before becoming a catechumen, and that catechism took another year and a half. In total I’ve been attending Orthodox churches for almost 3 years, and only recently got baptized (May 4th of this year). A few people tried to rush me, but most pretty much told me to take whatever time was necessary for me, since it’s a bigger decision than marriage (which I will also be embarking on this weekend). I think the best way I can summarize how a person can get a good introduction to Orthodoxy is this: attend an Orthodox Church from September 1st to August 31st of the next year. Attend every Sunday, get there early, and attend every feast day, participate in every fast, and confess once a month (even if you’re not baptized/catechumen). Go to Pascha and Christmas. Attend a wedding or two and a funeral or two. Attend a few baptisms, and get to know the priest. Attend Vespers once a month at least. Attend as many services as you can during Holy Week, and develop an Orthodox prayer life. That’s really what an introduction to Orthodoxy is, and frankly I haven’t even done all these yet (I’m late to everything!). The whole church calendar makes you participate in Christ’s life as though you are present at each significant event of the Gospels. There are books to read, but they can’t replace a whole Calendar year of participation. Kinda like how if you wanna know your spouse, you have to do what they do for a year and go to their family events, and vice versa.
@@jamesbarksdale978 There was a great story I heard from a bishop once. He told us how a group of evangelicals came to his church with an entire laundry list of questions. He listened to all their questions and when they were finished he said, "Great questions! How about you attend the liturgy for 3 months and afterwards come back and I'll answer whatever questions you still have." They returned three months later and said that their list had dropped down to ten questions. So the bishops said, "Wonderful, how about you attend for another 3 months and if you still have questions I will answer them." In three months time they came back and told the bishop, "we just have one question left. Why did it take us so long to be convinced?"
@@jamesbarksdale978Very similar to my experience! I got christmated this month, after a couple of years of inquiries and some 15 months as a catechumen. I'd say take your time and don't rush anything. If you can, participate in the life of an Orthodox parrish as much as you feel comfortable doing so (feeling a little awkward is normal, but don't force it too much). Since Christ is The Truth, I think all honest searching for truth will lead to Him. Take care!
I have just recently discovered your channel and have so enjoyed your content! I am a 64 year old woman who had atheist parents but came to faith as a child ( and was for many years forbidden to go to church) but in my early teens(13) things loosened up and I began to attend one of those truly amazing “Jesus movement churches”. It was a “house church” - they took the faith and the new testament both literally and seriously and there I experienced a profound sense of God - of His Holiness and power and of His deep love for mankind. There was an expectation that we should follow Christs words and that was exactly what we did - we believed that by doing this we would be transformed - as the New Testament writers told us we would be. The Holy Spirit was palpable in both the worship and in the lives of the people there. My folks moved to Canada when I turned 15 and I looked everywhere for a church that had even a bit of the life and depth I had experienced in my former church - but alas I found none. My experience at a local Pentecostal church was quite typical. I was so excited to see other teenagers there but it wasn’t long until I discovered that the reason they were all literally “crying at the alter” on Sunday morning was because they were out drinking and carousing on Saturday night. The hypocrisy was devastating for me so I began a slow drift away from the faith and that continued until my early 20’s when the emptiness of a life without God became unbearable. That began a slow journey back that landed me in a large (about 1000 people ) Pentecostal church with a marvellous intellectual preacher. There was a lot of what I term “ cultural holiness” among the congregation (you know the we don’t drink, smoke, dance etc….but we are fine to spend our money on fancy clothes, cars, feasting, vacations and all the gadgets we desire) but the preaching was inspiring and my personal spiritual life seemed to be allowing for growth. But another move led me back to a church hunt and that was when I discovered “the prosperity gospel” and “ the word faith” movement. There were few things further from Christs teachings than these and so my searching eventually lead me to the Catholic Church ( I kept reading wonderful, deep spiritual books - only to discover they were written by catholic saints and I would literally throw them across the room!) to say I had acquired an anti catholic bias would be an understatement! So this was NOT an easy move for me as I had to overcome the idea that the pope was the Antichrist and the church itself was the whore of Babylon - let alone Mary and the saints…..but the Lord VERY graciously preformed a few miraculous events to reassure me and I moved forward into the church. Now I must admit I didn’t “buy” into everything- the whole infallible pope thing and the original schism between east and west I reserved judgement on. But the Eucharist and the sacraments? That I was 100% sure of. So I end up having children and become the head of religious education in my parish - even ran the youth group and appeared by all outward appearances to be a model catholic - but inside I was spiritually dying. I was up to my eye balls in catholic theology- I studied it - I taught it - but it was dead - as dead as any man made thing I had ever experienced. And I had something to compare it to - remember I had know Gods presence in the midst of His people all those years ago. I had known and experienced Gods life as something real and palatable in my own human life and it just wasn’t there. I was full of despair - and then the pandemic hit! It was a very dark time - both personally and spiritually but as it ended I couldn’t go back to my old parish and I felt led to attend the Orthodox church. Not a small matter for me as I live on an island so it means a very early morning ferry ride and a long drive to get to church. And I didn’t know a whole lot about their practices (other than a fair amount of Catholic misunderstanding ) but I felt led and so I went. And suddenly I found myself at the church I had spent the last 50 years searching for. The very first orthodox book I read was Dr Constantinu’s “Thinking Orthodox” and every page I read my heart leapt and kept saying YES - I believe this - this is exactly what I learned and experienced in that Jesus movement church all those years ago. These are things I know are true! At the start of my journey I was a 9 year old little girl who sat in a church with a neighbour and as I watched the sun pour through a window I knew without a doubt that there was a God - I knew He lived in the light - and I knew more than anything else in the world I wanted to live in that light too. I came from atheist parents - totally opposed to God so there was no “cultural Christianity” to guide me. Just the Lord himself who spoke to my heart, often through circumstance and the dropping of bread crumbs - and sometimes through miraculous events - as I got older also through my intellect. That was how God revealed Himself to me - that was how He lead me through a long and winding trail of many churches - and that is how I knew ( before studying any theology or reading the church fathers or anyone else ) that the Orthodox Church is the church- because I knew in my heart I had finally come home. I have literally been everywhere else in the great house that is Christendom - in each room I studied their theology and experienced their spirituality and while all had pieces of the the way and the truth and the life - they were all also missing big pieces of the whole. I truly love your shows - they are interesting- they are enlightening- and everyone is participating is in their heads. We can use our minds to think about God and to learn about God but we do not experience God in our heads but rather in our hearts. I think you are drawn to Orthdoxy but Orthodoxy is not a set of ideas to learn about or argue over - it is a life to be lived. And the ONLY way you can discover if this truly is Christs Church and if you are personally being called to become part of Her is to go on pilgrimage. I would suggest you take the next year and live like an orthodox Christian- attend the services - participate in the fasts, the prayer rule, the alms giving - do less “head stuff” and more practical, physical praxis. Try to stay out of your head - just experience it all with your heart and see for yourself. You are not converting - you are just on pilgrimage so there is no pressure and I can guarantee that no one will put any on you. You have had on so many well known - super impressive orthodox guests and I am just a simple grandma who lives in Canada - but I have physically walked and lived the ideas discussed on your show - and have felt led to write you this crazy message. So I urge you to give this idea a try - because there is nothing to lose - but so very much to gain. I discovered a fascinating audio series on Patristics Nectar called “Divine Energy - saving transformation in Jesus Christ” by father Joseph Copeland that I would highly recommend to you. As I am sure you have discovered by now - both the mystery and experiential aspects of Orthodoxy (and add to that a VERY different theological vocabulary) often make it extremely difficult to pin down exactly WHAT they believe. This short series is the most amazing description of what being “born again” in the Orthdox church entails. With that I will sign off - wishing you all of Gods blessings as you continue your journey!
Thank you very much for this talk. It seems we've been obsessed with external material things for so long now we've stunted the relationship parts of our being. The early church as an extended family is worth thinking about more... Father Son,, brothers sisters Holy Spirit with all. A beautiful image.
I'm so excited you're doing this interview. I've got Dr. Porcu's book in my Ancient Faith shopping cart and just waiting for a few more things to check out.
Oh, that's easy... All you gotta do to aquire an Orthodox mind is to have an Orthodox mother... If you change your mind, she will RE-mind you. (Happy bright week! ΧΡΙΣΤΌΣ ΑΝΈΣΤΗ!... I love my Orthodox mom!)
Orthodoxy is nothing like any other self-professed Christian group. I used to think otherwise, and then by grace I became Orthodox. It is radically different at every level, and all of the west has inherited a caricatured impression of Christendom. Thanks for this beautiful interview!
@@StoaoftheSouth that's a contradiction, there's nothing even close to that. Submitting to Francis is selling your soul, it's more egregious than any other sect, especially since Vatican I. Well, even since the triadological heresy dogmatized at the 6th session of Florence
@XiHamORTHOCN I've been to Catholic Churches which were pretty Orthodox in the liturgy and spirituality. What does your communion have that makes it radically different at every level?
I've always seen the mystery of God through His creation (yes, even in math or physics He is evident). The more I learn and discover the more I see just how incredible our Creator is. When you see it this way, everything holds meaning and everything was made intentionally. I truly appreciate the emphasis on humility and acceptance of "mysteries", that mindset is how I try to operate even being raised Protestant. Thanks for having this conversation and sharing.
Austin, I love your thoughtful and reflective questions and your understanding of what your audience may be missing or misunderstanding about the content of the discussion. May God continue to bless you and your family on your faith journey. I do take exception with his characterization of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Both his definition as a 'giant rule book' and his body language and tone - which are dismissive and disparaging - demonstrates both an ignorance and a prejudiced against the Catholic Church. Ironically, just a short time before, he mentions sitting alone with the Bible and coming up with all kinds of heresy. The Catholic Church's teachings are often a very direct and specific response to heresies that arose, along with general confusion and misunderstandings which can lead the faithful not only to confusion but even hateful or intolerant behavior if the teachings are misunderstood. This is a gift to the people of God, not a rule book. By the way, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, far from a simple 'rule book', references the sources of these teachings including Biblical and Church Father references. It is a rich and beautiful resource for anyone who wants to understand not only 'what' the Church teaches, but 'why'.
For a person who doesn't know about the "Logos bible software" I bet they were really confused when the discussion just prior regarding "how to logos is everywhere" ended up being a digital bible software you have to pay for hahahaha
Coming out soon! I had some issues with my podcast hosting services, but now I'm back-uploading all my podcasts. Unfortunately, there's a limit to the amount of content I can upload per month
As an Orthodox whose path to Orthodoxy was via Catholicism I am a little uncomfortable with Dr. Z's dismissal of scholasticism and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is not that I think there is a place for these things in Orthodoxy, but that it betrays a lack of understanding of the 'mind' of Catholicism and seems glib and insensitive. There is room in all endeavours for intellectual thought, God gave us an intellect for a reason. Scholasticism is more of a dialectic than anything else and as such provides great structure for investigating and questioning things. As a Catholic I used to love to dive into old scholastic texts simply because they acted to 'defrag' my brain and produce great clarity which helped me in my daily Christian life and not just on an intellectual level. As an Orthodox, my brain doesn't need defragging, it dwells in an apophatic darkness and is sinking into my heart, it is my whole being which is being defragged and that is something I have zero control over! My 'catechism' into Orthodoxy involved spending 6 months standing outside the church in all weathers during Liturgy, not even venturing into the narthex. My spiritual father saw that intellectual pride may very well be an issue for me, and this was part of the cure. I definitely gained a lot from standing and kneeling there, more than any words could teach me. Now this method isn't going to work for everyone and I have seen how useful a Catechism can be (though not part of the Orthodox phronema). But I love my Catholic brothers and sisters, their way is their way, it certainly was not enough for me or even right for me. I do feel some pain when my Orthodox brothers and sisters express a certain level of ignorance about the Roman ways and heritage.
Dear Brother, I can relate to that. 🌸 Regarding the scholasticism, Seraphim Hamilton mentioned as follows. "...You don't start hearing this stuff about scholasticism being wrong as a method until you get to the 20th century particularly by theologians such as Fr John Romanides who, in his effort to distinguish Orthodoxy from Catholicism, ended up seriously distorting Orthodoxy in many respects. In the medieval period there were plenty of Byzantine theologians who have studied the Scholastics especially St. Thomas Aquinas, revered the Scholastics, appropriated scholastic theology in their own work, and I'm not just speaking about the so-called Latina phone party who was seeking union with the Latin Church but also of Saints such as St. Gennadius Scholarius who studied St. Thomas fervently and disagreed with him fervently ....So already you can start to see some of the differences between the way that, these differences were presented in the medieval period and in the modern period by many Orthodox people, but scholasticism as a method was was not really criticized. " Seraphim Hamilton, Orthodoxy and Catholicism (1): Similarities and Ecclesial Status, TH-cam
I think that this is definitely a common issue. I understand that shepherds of churches feel a duty to protect their flocks from what they deem as harmful but there are so many blessings from other traditions that Christians miss out on by staying in their historically divided echo chambers. I think the internet is a place where these barriers are being removed but the hubris often displayed by people is really unfortunate.
"ways and heritage" don't save. Christ saves, Orthodoxy is Christianity. I'm a scholastic academic, former Roman Catholic. Scholasticism is not in fact Christianity. Reason is most deeply regarded in the Orthodox faith. The distinction between the need to transfigure the whole body VS the brain is a useful point, truly Orthodox, I really have no problem with the general bent of this, but we do our brothers disservice to omit the conclusion, which is also the exposition: Christ is the savior of the world. We must worship Him, not our personal construct, and seek salvation in His body, which is Orthodoxy.
What is a tree? The west: I’ll find out. I’ll cut this tree down and dissect its branches, study its tree rings and roots to find out its properties. I’ll make a chair and a house from it. I know what a tree is. The East: I’ll find out. I’ll plant a seed and grow the tree. I’ll sit under its shade. Climb up in it. Eat its fruit. Observe the birds and animals that make their homes in it. I know what a tree is. Is there a correlation between this way to “know” the tree and also how we know scriptures and Christ?
As on orthodox Christian, I have to say that I disagree with the afirmation that the intellect, or scholasticism is wrong per se. I do agree that we have to be on the same “mind” with the Church, however in the east we have learned what complete ignorance of intellect can lead to intolerance towards others, especially other faiths, and also to massive black spots regarding the historical reality of the Christian past. I have witnessed many examples where laity are led by a nationalist mentality (sometimes promoted in the church) and therefore easily going down the rabbit hole without having the basic real, historical or intellectual knowledge.
Well yeah but it isn't like Scholasticism or the "intellect" isolated the west from bad ideas or nationalism. The Facists in Spain, Itally and Germany as well as the French revolution, Marxism and Nihilism all have their roots in cultures that were Schoolastic/ Rational
@@mrjustadude1 You are absolutely right, however I was talking in a different context. The gentleman here was almost bringing the discussion to absolute levels, which in my opinion can very easily lead to superstition and not pure faith. Faith and reason should equally be part of Christian life, as one without the other can only lead to ideology and bigotism.
I think he was making a more specific point about the cause of modernity’s current secularism. Like he said scholasticism introduced a different way of reasoning based on logical systems without revelation as the grounding of truth. To massively oversimplify, the developments such as Protestantism, the enlightenment, and the secular world we live in today, are a byproduct of this lack of revelation and faith as the grounds of truth. In other words, Descartes obsession with certainty and the empiricism of Hume could not have about except through evolutions in how we define our epistemology.
Being against scholasticism isn't about opposition to scholarly and intellectual pursuits regarding the faith. I know Dr Porcu personally and I know he isn't anti-intellectual. I think this interview is enough to demonstrate that. Scholasticism is about reason being the highest and primary means by which to know God. It is in the spirit of cessationism, or rather cessationism follows from the scholastic spirit. For the scholastic, the Spirit and spiritual enlightenment are not necessary for spiritual life, which is boiled down to right and absolute knowledge of God. In Orthodoxy, our reason itself is being healed and renewed. To even imagine that with a reason still clouded by the passions you could obtain certain and right knowledge of God is a delusion.
@@campomambo I was never insinuating that through scholasticism only, one may come to know God, as an Eastern Orthodox myself, this would be absurd. I was rather talking about a different phenomena which is relatively frequent in our Church, that of totally ignoring (in certain parts obviously) the elements of logic, science and even the historicity of certain things. There are many aspects of faith which cannot be understood or embraced without using these elements as “filter”. A certain level of knowledge and research is needed in order to avoid the phyletism and tribalism which is so frequently present in the Orthodox Church (mainly in the east)
Engineer here. Couldnt get over this point without pulling my hair out. The directionality of torque is arbitrary. The math works just fine if you (consistently) apply the opposite rule. And part of the problem with the analogy is that up-down torque component will never be actually observed practically. Instead this directionality was chosen in part because it agrees with clocks, which kind of makes the whole point circular (pun very much intended). I guess this is one of the striking points about a lot of the "enchanted" reasonings here, they ultimately can end up being a dodge for things like circular reasoning or debatable logical inference.
I'm thinking it's a connection to the "right hand rule" in EM fields, in which clockwise and counterclockwise are not interchangeable. The guest is clearly not a physics guy and said himself his explanation of his buddies point was clunky. Let's be charitable The point seems to be that the screw, EM fields, and the liturgy are all patterning a spiral (i.e. movement both linear and circular) ascent to heaven or decent to death. It's hard to grasp post-enlightenment, but to the ancient mindset a statement like this makes perfect sense: "Every screw is Jacob's ladder and was created to glorify God and prach the gospel to man. Let every screw rejoice!"
"Enchanted" or sacramental thinking is about understanding that everything exists within a larger context and that how they fit, the effects, and operation within that larger context is in those things not just in our minds. As an engineer you can abstract "torque" from that larger context in order to understand it better, but within the larger context torque always has some relationship to the world, some effect, some meaning.
What about water draining in a spiral? I know that switches at the equator. Regardless of the way physics works, the fact that the Jews process with the Torah the same direction as EO priests process with the chalice and discos "the Word" tells me that the EO church is still the inheritance of the early Church. When God tells the Israelites to camp in the desert, He gives instructions for where the various tribes that end up making a giant cross if viewed from above, with the Tabernacle in the center. Even the items on the alter mirror the items in the Ark of the Covenant: the Budded cross for Aaron's rod that budded, the Gospel book for the 10 Commandment tablets, and of course the Eucharist for the pot of Manna.
I don’t like how Protestantism is talked about like it’s all the same thing. There is such a diverse range from Anglicans and Lutherans to charismatic nondenominational churches that are also “Protestant.” It’s just not a helpful label. As a Lutheran it’s super frustrating because it and Anglo-Catholicism are the only truly sacramental traditions in Protestantism. If Lutheranism didn’t exist I would 100% without a doubt become Eastern Orthodox and I know many other people who would do the same. I think viewing churches based on how they historically formed instead of on their actual beliefs is a mistake which the label “Protestant” only complicates.
I agree. His idea that Luther was subjectivising Christianity seems ridiculous to one formed by his writings and the tradition that's labelled with his name. Admittedly Luther doesn't help himself when he spits muddy poison at his opponents and then is sober and gentle to those open to listen. Yet I suppose there's a reason Luther popularises the condemnation of enthusiasts (those listening to their self/inside as god), antinomians, sacramentarians, papists, etc. because his opponents accuse him of being all these and more. Subjectivism in Christianity seems more anabaptist and even more Pietist, than anywhere else (of course Pietism did start within the Lutheran churches, yet what do Evangelicals now have to do with the Means of Grace?).
I think it’s a helpful label in that all Protestant denominations hold particular doctrines at the center of their conception of Christianity. Protestantism (from high to low order churches) is consistent in the ways it is distinct from RC and EO. There are particularities that give each denomination its distinct flavor but ultimately they have a lot in common.
@@josiahalexander5697 when the EO teach the contents of Lutheran sola fide, gratia, and scriptura (stealing our quotes of: "it's a mystery" and "why not both?"); and when Lutheran attitude is "better Blood with the pope than mere wine with the fanatics"; I'm not sure you're correct. Not to mention that soft decision theology (saved by my prayer or accepting Jesus into my heart) is semi-pelagian and rejected in the same breath as penance; or the liturgy, Saints days, church year that Lutherans preserve.
@@j.g.4942 I don’t know that the us-them mentality is particularly effective in this conversation. That being said, there is a certain commonality across all of Protestantism. That commonality allows for a general label which is technically accurate, at least for getting the point across. You can’t disassociate Lutheran or Anglican theology from history because Christianity, fundamentally, must not be disassociated from history. The moment it is, it is no longer Christianity. This is because God incarnated at a specific point in time and space.
Christ isn't dead, he is the head of the Church. Contrast this with the Pope, where they state they need a Pope as a symbol for Christ while he isn't here. The Church is a divine-human institution, so there's no need for the Pope. Contrast this to a monarchy that isn't divine, now the King becomes a symbol for Christ.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
As for original sin, there is a departure in understanding between East and West. The eastern view is even today almost the same as the Jewish view. I don’t understand why you’d say hell is a later development when Islam also has a conception of hell.
This guy has a very uncritical paradigm. What about when you come to interpret some things under two different symbolic meanings that are contrary? It just ends up being meaningless projection. And i say this as someone who wrote a book on the Inherent meaningfulness of nature (comes out June 25th!).
The Bible likens both Jesus and Satan to a lion. Things are only intrinsically Good by nature. Even Satan's nature is good, he just doesn't have the likeness of God anymore. When things are in motion, they can do good or bad actions, and the quality of those actions determines whether or not something is in the likeness of Christ. That's what a symbol is. The quality is being in communion, rather than fragmentation.
It's ironic that Porcu summarizes that in Orthodoxy the emphasis is on 'the family' (as it should be *) - yet the 'Families of Orthodox' don't get along with each other. :/ * IMO we should be living The Life of Christ, in community, modeled by The Holy Family - which has been the Catholic way from the beginning! ;)
Families, in this life, have spats all the time, and the Roman Catholic Church is not exempt from this either (just look at Germany). Part of the wonder of Orthodoxy is that all these churches have remained together all this time without some central authority figure in place over everybody, but through brotherly love we find a way to reconcile with each other.
Cathlicism is only more unified on paper. I know more people at other Orthodox Parishes in other jurisdictions in town after a year and a half than my parents know who go to different mass times at the Parish they have attended for 2 decades. I also know just about everyone in my Parish since it's only about 250 people and we all attend the singular litergy on Sunday and most of them stay for Agape meal after. I was Catholic for 30 years and Orthodoxy feels SO much more like a family.
Also Catholics have had a ton of internal conflicts over history... Western schisim, galicanism in various forms, the Latin Church activily surpressing, oppressing and abusing the various Eastern Catholic Churchs pretty constantly right up until V2. It's not a very useful polemic to use against the Orthodox in my opinion.
@@Metascetic You're comparing Orthodoxy (a particular tradition) with a category (Protestantism). It is a false comparison engaged in by many RCs and EOs. Another example of the gas-lighting present among the Orthodox.
@@Metascetic Also, when the Orthodox rail against the perspecuity of Scripture, this is also gaslighting, as it was believed by many of the early Fathers.
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The Orthodox Faith is a perfect example of participatory knowledge. It just doesn't make sense truly until you enter into it. I spent 10 years on the outside looking in, trying to study and read my way into the Church. I had that anxiety about certainty that Dr. Porcu is talking about. 10 years and I still wasn't able to 'get there'. I finally took a leap of faith and planted my flag with the OC. It wasn't until I entered into the life of the Church, partaking of the mysteries etc., that it started to really connect. It's now been 10 years from that point and it's been the absolute proof for me of what's being discussed here.
It's interesting to hear your story. I've been intrigued by Orthodoxy for a long time, but haven't been able/willing to take that final step. Still too many questions, I think. But you give me good food for thought.
I attended the same Orthodox church as the guest for over a year before becoming a catechumen, and that catechism took another year and a half. In total I’ve been attending Orthodox churches for almost 3 years, and only recently got baptized (May 4th of this year). A few people tried to rush me, but most pretty much told me to take whatever time was necessary for me, since it’s a bigger decision than marriage (which I will also be embarking on this weekend).
I think the best way I can summarize how a person can get a good introduction to Orthodoxy is this: attend an Orthodox Church from September 1st to August 31st of the next year. Attend every Sunday, get there early, and attend every feast day, participate in every fast, and confess once a month (even if you’re not baptized/catechumen). Go to Pascha and Christmas. Attend a wedding or two and a funeral or two. Attend a few baptisms, and get to know the priest. Attend Vespers once a month at least. Attend as many services as you can during Holy Week, and develop an Orthodox prayer life.
That’s really what an introduction to Orthodoxy is, and frankly I haven’t even done all these yet (I’m late to everything!). The whole church calendar makes you participate in Christ’s life as though you are present at each significant event of the Gospels. There are books to read, but they can’t replace a whole Calendar year of participation.
Kinda like how if you wanna know your spouse, you have to do what they do for a year and go to their family events, and vice versa.
@@jamesbarksdale978 There was a great story I heard from a bishop once. He told us how a group of evangelicals came to his church with an entire laundry list of questions. He listened to all their questions and when they were finished he said, "Great questions! How about you attend the liturgy for 3 months and afterwards come back and I'll answer whatever questions you still have." They returned three months later and said that their list had dropped down to ten questions. So the bishops said, "Wonderful, how about you attend for another 3 months and if you still have questions I will answer them." In three months time they came back and told the bishop, "we just have one question left. Why did it take us so long to be convinced?"
@@jamesbarksdale978Very similar to my experience! I got christmated this month, after a couple of years of inquiries and some 15 months as a catechumen.
I'd say take your time and don't rush anything. If you can, participate in the life of an Orthodox parrish as much as you feel comfortable doing so (feeling a little awkward is normal, but don't force it too much).
Since Christ is The Truth, I think all honest searching for truth will lead to Him. Take care!
Recently left Protestantism for Orthodoxy. Best decision I ever made.
Catholic 2.0.
Many years!
Real
@@Crocs_in_the_gym more like 1.0
Ditto
To my Orthodox brothers and sisters enjoying bright week; CHRIST IS RISEN!
Truly, He is risen!
Interviews like these that you've done were instrumental in my becoming Orthodox. God bless you on your journey Austin!
I have just recently discovered your channel and have so enjoyed your content!
I am a 64 year old woman who had atheist parents but came to faith as a child ( and was for many years forbidden to go to church) but in my early teens(13) things loosened up and I began to attend one of those truly amazing “Jesus movement churches”. It was a “house church” - they took the faith and the new testament both literally and seriously and there I experienced a profound sense of God - of His Holiness and power and of His deep love for mankind. There was an expectation that we should follow Christs words and that was exactly what we did - we believed that by doing this we would be transformed - as the New Testament writers told us we would be.
The Holy Spirit was palpable in both the worship and in the lives of the people there.
My folks moved to Canada when I turned 15 and I looked everywhere for a church that had even a bit of the life and depth I had experienced in my former church - but alas I found none. My experience at a local Pentecostal church was quite typical. I was so excited to see other teenagers there but it wasn’t long until I discovered that the reason they were all literally “crying at the alter” on Sunday morning was because they were out drinking and carousing on Saturday night. The hypocrisy was devastating for me so I began a slow drift away from the faith and that continued until my early 20’s when the emptiness of a life without God became unbearable.
That began a slow journey back that landed me in a large (about 1000 people ) Pentecostal church with a marvellous intellectual preacher. There was a lot of what I term “ cultural holiness” among the congregation (you know the we don’t drink, smoke, dance etc….but we are fine to spend our money on fancy clothes, cars, feasting, vacations and all the gadgets we desire) but the preaching was inspiring and my personal spiritual life seemed to be allowing for growth.
But another move led me back to a church hunt and that was when I discovered “the prosperity gospel” and “ the word faith” movement.
There were few things further from Christs teachings than these and so my searching eventually lead me to the Catholic Church ( I kept reading wonderful, deep spiritual books - only to discover they were written by catholic saints and I would literally throw them across the room!) to say I had acquired an anti catholic bias would be an understatement!
So this was NOT an easy move for me as I had to overcome the idea that the pope was the Antichrist and the church itself was the whore of Babylon - let alone Mary and the saints…..but the Lord VERY graciously preformed a few miraculous events to reassure me and I moved forward into the church.
Now I must admit I didn’t “buy” into everything- the whole infallible pope thing and the original schism between east and west I reserved judgement on.
But the Eucharist and the sacraments? That I was 100% sure of.
So I end up having children and become the head of religious education in my parish - even ran the youth group and appeared by all outward appearances to be a model catholic - but inside I was spiritually dying.
I was up to my eye balls in catholic theology- I studied it - I taught it - but it was dead - as dead as any man made thing I had ever experienced.
And I had something to compare it to - remember I had know Gods presence in the midst of His people all those years ago.
I had known and experienced Gods life as something real and palatable in my own human life and it just wasn’t there.
I was full of despair - and then the pandemic hit!
It was a very dark time - both personally and spiritually but as it ended I couldn’t go back to my old parish and I felt led to attend the Orthodox church.
Not a small matter for me as I live on an island so it means a very early morning ferry ride and a long drive to get to church. And I didn’t know a whole lot about their practices (other than a fair amount of Catholic misunderstanding ) but I felt led and so I went.
And suddenly I found myself at the church I had spent the last 50 years searching for.
The very first orthodox book I read was Dr Constantinu’s “Thinking Orthodox” and every page I read my heart leapt and kept saying YES - I believe this - this is exactly what I learned and experienced in that Jesus movement church all those years ago.
These are things I know are true!
At the start of my journey I was a 9 year old little girl who sat in a church with a neighbour and as I watched the sun pour through a window I knew without a doubt that there was a God - I knew He lived in the light - and I knew more than anything else in the world I wanted to live in that light too.
I came from atheist parents - totally opposed to God so there was no “cultural Christianity” to guide me.
Just the Lord himself who spoke to my heart, often through circumstance and the dropping of bread crumbs - and sometimes through miraculous events - as I got older also through my intellect.
That was how God revealed Himself to me - that was how He lead me through a long and winding trail of many churches - and that is how I knew ( before studying any theology or reading the church fathers or anyone else ) that the Orthodox Church is the church- because I knew in my heart I had finally come home.
I have literally been everywhere else in the great house that is Christendom - in each room I studied their theology and experienced their spirituality and while all had pieces of the the way and the truth and the life - they were all also missing big pieces of the whole.
I truly love your shows - they are interesting- they are enlightening- and everyone is participating is in their heads.
We can use our minds to think about God and to learn about God but we do not experience God in our heads but rather in our hearts.
I think you are drawn to Orthdoxy but Orthodoxy is not a set of ideas to learn about or argue over - it is a life to be lived.
And the ONLY way you can discover if this truly is Christs Church and if you are personally being called to become part of Her is to go on pilgrimage.
I would suggest you take the next year and live like an orthodox Christian- attend the services - participate in the fasts, the prayer rule, the alms giving - do less “head stuff” and more practical, physical praxis.
Try to stay out of your head - just experience it all with your heart and see for yourself.
You are not converting - you are just on pilgrimage so there is no pressure and I can guarantee that no one will put any on you.
You have had on so many well known - super impressive orthodox guests and I am just a simple grandma who lives in Canada - but I have physically walked and lived the ideas discussed on your show - and have felt led to write you this crazy message.
So I urge you to give this idea a try - because there is nothing to lose - but so very much to gain.
I discovered a fascinating audio series on Patristics Nectar called “Divine Energy - saving transformation in Jesus Christ” by father Joseph Copeland that I would highly recommend to you.
As I am sure you have discovered by now - both the mystery and experiential aspects of Orthodoxy (and add to that a VERY different theological vocabulary) often make it extremely difficult to pin down exactly WHAT they believe.
This short series is the most amazing description of what being “born again” in the Orthdox church entails.
With that I will sign off - wishing you all of Gods blessings as you continue your journey!
I love your story and recommendations! I relate in many ways. Christ is risen!
MANNNNN How can you NOT become Orthodox after that 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Half Kidding. Great interview 🤙
This guy! I know him! He taught several Catechisms at my church!
Do you go to St. Andrews?
Yep
@educationalporpoises9592 congratulations on your marriage.
Thank you very much for this talk. It seems we've been obsessed with external material things for so long now we've stunted the relationship parts of our being. The early church as an extended family is worth thinking about more... Father Son,, brothers sisters Holy Spirit with all. A beautiful image.
You should read “Acquiring the Mind of Christ” by Archimandrite Sergius Bowyer
I should? Ok! 🤗
Fantastic interview!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This guy goes deep awesome discussion
We're blessed with many recent saints
I'm so excited you're doing this interview. I've got Dr. Porcu's book in my Ancient Faith shopping cart and just waiting for a few more things to check out.
Oh, that's easy... All you gotta do to aquire an Orthodox mind is to have an Orthodox mother... If you change your mind, she will RE-mind you.
(Happy bright week! ΧΡΙΣΤΌΣ ΑΝΈΣΤΗ!... I love my Orthodox mom!)
Truly he is risen 🙂
😂😂😂😂 that’s true!
"Start unplugging" (1:01:05) is a tremendously useful suggestion!
Read this book during this year's Lent. Worth every bit. My priest has been recommending it to catechumens.
Orthodoxy is nothing like any other self-professed Christian group. I used to think otherwise, and then by grace I became Orthodox. It is radically different at every level, and all of the west has inherited a caricatured impression of Christendom. Thanks for this beautiful interview!
Aside from the polemics, what about Orthodox Christians in communion with the Roman Church?
@@StoaoftheSouth that's a contradiction, there's nothing even close to that. Submitting to Francis is selling your soul, it's more egregious than any other sect, especially since Vatican I. Well, even since the triadological heresy dogmatized at the 6th session of Florence
@@StoaoftheSouth in short, that's an oxymoron.
@XiHamORTHOCN I've been to Catholic Churches which were pretty Orthodox in the liturgy and spirituality.
What does your communion have that makes it radically different at every level?
@@StoaoftheSouth Orthodoxy and Orthopraxy
Seeking God's grace through sacraments is walking by sight and not by faith.
I've always seen the mystery of God through His creation (yes, even in math or physics He is evident). The more I learn and discover the more I see just how incredible our Creator is. When you see it this way, everything holds meaning and everything was made intentionally. I truly appreciate the emphasis on humility and acceptance of "mysteries", that mindset is how I try to operate even being raised Protestant. Thanks for having this conversation and sharing.
Great discussion from two brethren. I like the historical perspective as it relates to our current times.
Babies turn clockwise when they make their way down the birth canal.
WOW!
"Chris has conquered every single problem in your life, except your own pride"
Personally met this man he's pretty cool
Austin, I love your thoughtful and reflective questions and your understanding of what your audience may be missing or misunderstanding about the content of the discussion. May God continue to bless you and your family on your faith journey. I do take exception with his characterization of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Both his definition as a 'giant rule book' and his body language and tone - which are dismissive and disparaging - demonstrates both an ignorance and a prejudiced against the Catholic Church. Ironically, just a short time before, he mentions sitting alone with the Bible and coming up with all kinds of heresy. The Catholic Church's teachings are often a very direct and specific response to heresies that arose, along with general confusion and misunderstandings which can lead the faithful not only to confusion but even hateful or intolerant behavior if the teachings are misunderstood. This is a gift to the people of God, not a rule book. By the way, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, far from a simple 'rule book', references the sources of these teachings including Biblical and Church Father references. It is a rich and beautiful resource for anyone who wants to understand not only 'what' the Church teaches, but 'why'.
The Truth, because the Truth is a person, cannot be systematized.
A rule book can still be a gift, there's "Amazing Grace ... that taught my heart to fear", and Luther's "Third use of the Law".
For a person who doesn't know about the "Logos bible software" I bet they were really confused when the discussion just prior regarding "how to logos is everywhere" ended up being a digital bible software you have to pay for hahahaha
LOL 😂
Does anyone know why these dont end up as podcasts??
Coming out soon! I had some issues with my podcast hosting services, but now I'm back-uploading all my podcasts. Unfortunately, there's a limit to the amount of content I can upload per month
Wouldn't the meaning be determined by God's view of the object? And wouldn't that apply to everything, and be very difficult for people to decern?
As an Orthodox whose path to Orthodoxy was via Catholicism I am a little uncomfortable with Dr. Z's dismissal of scholasticism and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is not that I think there is a place for these things in Orthodoxy, but that it betrays a lack of understanding of the 'mind' of Catholicism and seems glib and insensitive. There is room in all endeavours for intellectual thought, God gave us an intellect for a reason. Scholasticism is more of a dialectic than anything else and as such provides great structure for investigating and questioning things. As a Catholic I used to love to dive into old scholastic texts simply because they acted to 'defrag' my brain and produce great clarity which helped me in my daily Christian life and not just on an intellectual level. As an Orthodox, my brain doesn't need defragging, it dwells in an apophatic darkness and is sinking into my heart, it is my whole being which is being defragged and that is something I have zero control over! My 'catechism' into Orthodoxy involved spending 6 months standing outside the church in all weathers during Liturgy, not even venturing into the narthex. My spiritual father saw that intellectual pride may very well be an issue for me, and this was part of the cure. I definitely gained a lot from standing and kneeling there, more than any words could teach me. Now this method isn't going to work for everyone and I have seen how useful a Catechism can be (though not part of the Orthodox phronema). But I love my Catholic brothers and sisters, their way is their way, it certainly was not enough for me or even right for me. I do feel some pain when my Orthodox brothers and sisters express a certain level of ignorance about the Roman ways and heritage.
This strikes me as a very mature take. Thank you for sharing your thoughts
Dear Brother, I can relate to that. 🌸 Regarding the scholasticism, Seraphim Hamilton mentioned as follows.
"...You don't start hearing this stuff about scholasticism being wrong as a method until you get to the 20th century particularly by theologians such as Fr John Romanides who, in his effort to distinguish Orthodoxy from Catholicism, ended up seriously distorting Orthodoxy in many respects. In the medieval period there were plenty of Byzantine theologians who have studied the Scholastics especially St. Thomas Aquinas, revered the Scholastics, appropriated scholastic theology in their own work, and I'm not just speaking about the so-called Latina phone party who was seeking union with the Latin Church but also of Saints such as St. Gennadius Scholarius who studied St. Thomas fervently and disagreed with him fervently ....So already you can start to see some of the differences between the way that, these differences were presented in the medieval period and in the modern period by many Orthodox people, but scholasticism as a method was was not really criticized. " Seraphim Hamilton, Orthodoxy and Catholicism (1): Similarities and Ecclesial Status, TH-cam
I think that this is definitely a common issue. I understand that shepherds of churches feel a duty to protect their flocks from what they deem as harmful but there are so many blessings from other traditions that Christians miss out on by staying in their historically divided echo chambers. I think the internet is a place where these barriers are being removed but the hubris often displayed by people is really unfortunate.
"ways and heritage" don't save. Christ saves, Orthodoxy is Christianity. I'm a scholastic academic, former Roman Catholic. Scholasticism is not in fact Christianity. Reason is most deeply regarded in the Orthodox faith. The distinction between the need to transfigure the whole body VS the brain is a useful point, truly Orthodox, I really have no problem with the general bent of this, but we do our brothers disservice to omit the conclusion, which is also the exposition: Christ is the savior of the world. We must worship Him, not our personal construct, and seek salvation in His body, which is Orthodoxy.
What is a tree?
The west:
I’ll find out. I’ll cut this tree down and dissect its branches, study its tree rings and roots to find out its properties. I’ll make a chair and a house from it. I know what a tree is.
The East:
I’ll find out. I’ll plant a seed and grow the tree. I’ll sit under its shade. Climb up in it. Eat its fruit. Observe the birds and animals that make their homes in it. I know what a tree is.
Is there a correlation between this way to “know” the tree and also how we know scriptures and Christ?
As on orthodox Christian, I have to say that I disagree with the afirmation that the intellect, or scholasticism is wrong per se. I do agree that we have to be on the same “mind” with the Church, however in the east we have learned what complete ignorance of intellect can lead to intolerance towards others, especially other faiths, and also to massive black spots regarding the historical reality of the Christian past. I have witnessed many examples where laity are led by a nationalist mentality (sometimes promoted in the church) and therefore easily going down the rabbit hole without having the basic real, historical or intellectual knowledge.
Well yeah but it isn't like Scholasticism or the "intellect" isolated the west from bad ideas or nationalism. The Facists in Spain, Itally and Germany as well as the French revolution, Marxism and Nihilism all have their roots in cultures that were Schoolastic/ Rational
@@mrjustadude1 You are absolutely right, however I was talking in a different context. The gentleman here was almost bringing the discussion to absolute levels, which in my opinion can very easily lead to superstition and not pure faith. Faith and reason should equally be part of Christian life, as one without the other can only lead to ideology and bigotism.
I think he was making a more specific point about the cause of modernity’s current secularism. Like he said scholasticism introduced a different way of reasoning based on logical systems without revelation as the grounding of truth. To massively oversimplify, the developments such as Protestantism, the enlightenment, and the secular world we live in today, are a byproduct of this lack of revelation and faith as the grounds of truth. In other words, Descartes obsession with certainty and the empiricism of Hume could not have about except through evolutions in how we define our epistemology.
Being against scholasticism isn't about opposition to scholarly and intellectual pursuits regarding the faith. I know Dr Porcu personally and I know he isn't anti-intellectual. I think this interview is enough to demonstrate that. Scholasticism is about reason being the highest and primary means by which to know God. It is in the spirit of cessationism, or rather cessationism follows from the scholastic spirit. For the scholastic, the Spirit and spiritual enlightenment are not necessary for spiritual life, which is boiled down to right and absolute knowledge of God. In Orthodoxy, our reason itself is being healed and renewed. To even imagine that with a reason still clouded by the passions you could obtain certain and right knowledge of God is a delusion.
@@campomambo I was never insinuating that through scholasticism only, one may come to know God, as an Eastern Orthodox myself, this would be absurd. I was rather talking about a different phenomena which is relatively frequent in our Church, that of totally ignoring (in certain parts obviously) the elements of logic, science and even the historicity of certain things. There are many aspects of faith which cannot be understood or embraced without using these elements as “filter”. A certain level of knowledge and research is needed in order to avoid the phyletism and tribalism which is so frequently present in the Orthodox Church (mainly in the east)
Engineer here. Couldnt get over this point without pulling my hair out.
The directionality of torque is arbitrary. The math works just fine if you (consistently) apply the opposite rule. And part of the problem with the analogy is that up-down torque component will never be actually observed practically. Instead this directionality was chosen in part because it agrees with clocks, which kind of makes the whole point circular (pun very much intended).
I guess this is one of the striking points about a lot of the "enchanted" reasonings here, they ultimately can end up being a dodge for things like circular reasoning or debatable logical inference.
I'm thinking it's a connection to the "right hand rule" in EM fields, in which clockwise and counterclockwise are not interchangeable. The guest is clearly not a physics guy and said himself his explanation of his buddies point was clunky. Let's be charitable
The point seems to be that the screw, EM fields, and the liturgy are all patterning a spiral (i.e. movement both linear and circular) ascent to heaven or decent to death. It's hard to grasp post-enlightenment, but to the ancient mindset a statement like this makes perfect sense: "Every screw is Jacob's ladder and was created to glorify God and prach the gospel to man. Let every screw rejoice!"
"Enchanted" or sacramental thinking is about understanding that everything exists within a larger context and that how they fit, the effects, and operation within that larger context is in those things not just in our minds. As an engineer you can abstract "torque" from that larger context in order to understand it better, but within the larger context torque always has some relationship to the world, some effect, some meaning.
What about water draining in a spiral? I know that switches at the equator.
Regardless of the way physics works, the fact that the Jews process with the Torah the same direction as EO priests process with the chalice and discos "the Word" tells me that the EO church is still the inheritance of the early Church.
When God tells the Israelites to camp in the desert, He gives instructions for where the various tribes that end up making a giant cross if viewed from above, with the Tabernacle in the center.
Even the items on the alter mirror the items in the Ark of the Covenant: the Budded cross for Aaron's rod that budded, the Gospel book for the 10 Commandment tablets, and of course the Eucharist for the pot of Manna.
I don’t like how Protestantism is talked about like it’s all the same thing. There is such a diverse range from Anglicans and Lutherans to charismatic nondenominational churches that are also “Protestant.” It’s just not a helpful label. As a Lutheran it’s super frustrating because it and Anglo-Catholicism are the only truly sacramental traditions in Protestantism. If Lutheranism didn’t exist I would 100% without a doubt become Eastern Orthodox and I know many other people who would do the same. I think viewing churches based on how they historically formed instead of on their actual beliefs is a mistake which the label “Protestant” only complicates.
I agree.
His idea that Luther was subjectivising Christianity seems ridiculous to one formed by his writings and the tradition that's labelled with his name. Admittedly Luther doesn't help himself when he spits muddy poison at his opponents and then is sober and gentle to those open to listen.
Yet I suppose there's a reason Luther popularises the condemnation of enthusiasts (those listening to their self/inside as god), antinomians, sacramentarians, papists, etc. because his opponents accuse him of being all these and more. Subjectivism in Christianity seems more anabaptist and even more Pietist, than anywhere else (of course Pietism did start within the Lutheran churches, yet what do Evangelicals now have to do with the Means of Grace?).
I think it’s a helpful label in that all Protestant denominations hold particular doctrines at the center of their conception of Christianity. Protestantism (from high to low order churches) is consistent in the ways it is distinct from RC and EO. There are particularities that give each denomination its distinct flavor but ultimately they have a lot in common.
@@josiahalexander5697 when the EO teach the contents of Lutheran sola fide, gratia, and scriptura (stealing our quotes of: "it's a mystery" and "why not both?"); and when Lutheran attitude is "better Blood with the pope than mere wine with the fanatics"; I'm not sure you're correct.
Not to mention that soft decision theology (saved by my prayer or accepting Jesus into my heart) is semi-pelagian and rejected in the same breath as penance; or the liturgy, Saints days, church year that Lutherans preserve.
@@j.g.4942
I don’t know that the us-them mentality is particularly effective in this conversation. That being said, there is a certain commonality across all of Protestantism. That commonality allows for a general label which is technically accurate, at least for getting the point across.
You can’t disassociate Lutheran or Anglican theology from history because Christianity, fundamentally, must not be disassociated from history. The moment it is, it is no longer Christianity. This is because God incarnated at a specific point in time and space.
@@j.g.4942 also, I’m kind of confused by your comment. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. The EO don’t teach the solas.
I can agree about scholasticism, but I do believe Orthodox shares blame with Catholics.
The mind of the Church ? So what happened to the Mind of Christ . It's the Mind of Christ that we must have .
They’re the same thing. The church is Christ’s body.
It’s another BOTH/AND situation.
Christ isn't dead, he is the head of the Church. Contrast this with the Pope, where they state they need a Pope as a symbol for Christ while he isn't here.
The Church is a divine-human institution, so there's no need for the Pope. Contrast this to a monarchy that isn't divine, now the King becomes a symbol for Christ.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Aspects of the Trinity are present in the writings of the Jewish author Philo who was born before Christ..
Atonement is in the Old Testament in the sacrificial lamb and scapegoat…
As for original sin, there is a departure in understanding between East and West. The eastern view is even today almost the same as the Jewish view.
I don’t understand why you’d say hell is a later development when Islam also has a conception of hell.
They ate fish at the very least
This guy has a very uncritical paradigm. What about when you come to interpret some things under two different symbolic meanings that are contrary? It just ends up being meaningless projection. And i say this as someone who wrote a book on the Inherent meaningfulness of nature (comes out June 25th!).
The Bible likens both Jesus and Satan to a lion. Things are only intrinsically Good by nature. Even Satan's nature is good, he just doesn't have the likeness of God anymore.
When things are in motion, they can do good or bad actions, and the quality of those actions determines whether or not something is in the likeness of Christ. That's what a symbol is. The quality is being in communion, rather than fragmentation.
Haha. In Romanian "Porcu" means "the pig".
It is a popular surname in Sardinia!
His ancestry is not Romanian
It's ironic that Porcu summarizes that in Orthodoxy the emphasis is on 'the family' (as it should be *) - yet the 'Families of Orthodox' don't get along with each other. :/ * IMO we should be living The Life of Christ, in community, modeled by The Holy Family - which has been the Catholic way from the beginning! ;)
Families, in this life, have spats all the time, and the Roman Catholic Church is not exempt from this either (just look at Germany). Part of the wonder of Orthodoxy is that all these churches have remained together all this time without some central authority figure in place over everybody, but through brotherly love we find a way to reconcile with each other.
Cathlicism is only more unified on paper.
I know more people at other Orthodox Parishes in other jurisdictions in town after a year and a half than my parents know who go to different mass times at the Parish they have attended for 2 decades.
I also know just about everyone in my Parish since it's only about 250 people and we all attend the singular litergy on Sunday and most of them stay for Agape meal after.
I was Catholic for 30 years and Orthodoxy feels SO much more like a family.
Also Catholics have had a ton of internal conflicts over history...
Western schisim, galicanism in various forms, the Latin Church activily surpressing, oppressing and abusing the various Eastern Catholic Churchs pretty constantly right up until V2.
It's not a very useful polemic to use against the Orthodox in my opinion.
No thank you. Orthodoxy thrusts the mind into scrupulosity and gaslights away from the simplicity of faith.
No thank you. Protestantism gaslights away from the depth and mystery of the faith and leans on falsely perceived perspicuity.
@@Metascetic You're comparing Orthodoxy (a particular tradition) with a category (Protestantism). It is a false comparison engaged in by many RCs and EOs. Another example of the gas-lighting present among the Orthodox.
@@Metascetic Also, when the Orthodox rail against the perspecuity of Scripture, this is also gaslighting, as it was believed by many of the early Fathers.
@@marcuswilliams7448 wrong
@@Metascetic I'd believe you, except for the fact that I have read a lot of the early Fathers.
he is pushing orthodoxy, not bible.
The Bible is orthodox.
Orthodox Church produced the Bible. The Scripture is part of the Holy tradition of the Church.
@Paisios77 no it did not.
@@donhaddix3770🤣
@@donhaddix3770 let me guess...God hand delivered the KJV bible to his chosen few? 🤦🏻♂️