All Changes to Monk in Pathfinder 2e Remaster's Player Core 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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I mentioned this in a Ronald video, where he shouted you out, but you encouraging people to support ALL Pathfinder content is one of the most positive things I've come across in TH-cam this year
honestly, very true. Its a very positive mindset.
My dude, Peerless Form IS NOT just a name change. It's a MASSIVE buff. This is now a flat status +2 to ALL Fort and Will saves. It used to be a +2 against poison and disease.
Probably the biggest buff to the Monk in the entire book.
It also gave poison resistance equal to half your level. Still overall a solid buff.
I see the grind you've done to beat Ron and NoNat to the punch. I salute you
Wasn't to beat them particularly, I have always produced more content then most in the space but I appreciate the support
Small clarification on Godbreaker, but falling damage is equal to half the distance you fell. So you'd be dealing 10-40 instead of 20-80. However, if a creature takes any falling damage, they also fall prone. So even if you manage to miss all your strikes, this is still an unresistible trip action that deals 10 damage.
Combined with Kip Up or Legendary Cat Fall, and you don't need to worry about falling prone yourself.
Notably looking through the Wild Mimic Archetype from Howl of The Wild book, It states that Gorilla stance and Gorilla pound are selectable feats and it even states that they are in Player Core 2.
Whoopsie
Deadly Strikes got folded into Diamond Fists, btw!
Wait, really? So now Diamond Fist gives forceful AND deadly?
@@Zephlo97 Yep yep!
@@Ezekieru Awesome!
Deadly Strikes always did feel like a weak one for a level 20 feat, so this change is amazing. If you wanna go all-out on punches, Diamond Fists is now a solid go-to. And the couple stances that give forceful attacks are gonna enjoy a damage die increase!
This makes my level 20 selection for my monk much better now
18:35 Timeless Body was changed, it used to give bonus against poisons and diseases, and give you poison resistance. Now it raises your Fort and Will saves by 2, which I personally think is a massive buff. The feat also used to imply you don't die of old age, but the new version I think does specify that you will eventually die of old age.
Also, I love that they dropped the level of Fuse Stance, I'm definitely going to pick it up with my monk, so I can fuse Crane and Ironblood Stance into a super tank.
I read it as a clarification that you can die if someone stabs you or something, but you're immortal besides that (since it still says you entirely cease aging). It's def weirdly worded, tho
@@sepirus4474 Yeah it's worded poorly, if it's not what you said, it's contradictory. How do you cease aging but still die "when your time is up"? What does that even mean?
@@Kitusser Your body is basically at its peak until you die of old age. That's how it was with PF1e Monks too. They still got to get the +1/+2/+3 to Mental Stats for reaching the aging milestones, they just didn't get the -2/-4/-6 to physical stats that came with getting old, that was the advantage to Timeless Body.
@@Mewzard So why is it even there? Age isn't relevant in PF2e. I don't see what the issue is with it just giving eternal youth.
Diamond Soul is an OGL thing so that also might be why it was cut. Same with Tongue of Sun and Moon.
Also same with Timeless body.
You missed the change for Peerless Form. It now gives you a +2 status bonus for 2 saves of your choice at ALL times. That's likely why Diamond Soul was removed.
qi is pronounced chi and is the pinyin version of the original chinese concept. ki is the japanese pronunciation
I love Bad Luck Gamer's Player Core 2 coverage!
As a side note, I think the switch from Ki to Qi is because Qi is the chinese term, and Tian Xia has more in common with a chinese setting than a japanese one.
Aside from Minkai/Forest of Spirits, Kaoling (at least in certain art), Shokuro (can't recall new name ott of my head sorry), and Jinin with strong Japanese flavouring, and the ones that are other Asian ethnostate inspired such as Hwanggot as fantasy Silla (with some influence from Baekje and possibly the Gaya Confederacy), Bacchuan as medieval fantasy North Korea, Dtang Ma as fantasy Thailand, Minata as fantasy Polynesia, Hongal as fantasy Mongolia, Xa Hoi as fantasy Vietnam, etc.
Dropped a like, adding a comment for the algorithm and to show my appreciation for what you do. I'm hoping to start some PF2e content of my own soon, my (former) D&D5e channel has been out of action since the OGL nonsense 18 months ago. I love Monk content, very happy to see not just a functional class in PF2e, but a pretty damn good one.
I imagined this took some time to make but I didn't expect it was this much. Thanks to showing us what the remaster has, love your content.
That's an enormous change for Whirling Throw, that really nerfs it's usability! Before you could grab a creature, and next round let your fists rain down on it, before throwing it away at a safe distance. Now you need to start with it, if you really want it to succed. So sad :(
Regarding Gorilla Stance, one of the weird things is that Howl of the Wild has the Wild Mimic archetype, and that cites Player Core 2 as a source for Gorilla Stance. This leads me to agree with you that Gorilla Stance ended up getting cut at a late stage of production due to space.
It looks to me that you can embrace nothingness and remain invisible even while attacking/flurrying, as long as you don't move?
The video I was waiting for :)
My only real complain about Godbreaker is that by virtue of being a Wrestler capstone first and foremost both a flurry Ranger and a Fighter have better odds of pulling off. I would had loved if Monks reduced in 1 the MAP penalty they get for it. So -3 for the second strike and -6 for the final one.
Spotless flavour though. I adore it.
Keep in mind that they retain the grappled/restrained condition, so they're constantly off-guard too... which means for all the attacks you have an effective +2 comparatively, including the first attack. which is probably why it fighters or flurry rangers don't get it.
@@kiilgore806 Issue is Rangers and Fighters can get it through the wrestler archetype at full power and using it a lot better than the monk
@@jpcg698 Oh. That's what they meant by wrestler capstone?
That's... Kinda lame tbh that it's... This in an archetype. Haven't seen much about the remastered wrestler having godbreaker added to it.
Especially because... Level 20 feat from an archetype being a level 20 class feat doesn't make sense.
I thought the 'wrestler capstone' thing was from the prerequisites being able to be picked from the wrestler.
Like.... Seriously. Hearing that Godbreaker is a wrestler archetype feat just killed a lot of the hype of a high level monk build.
Cuz like... Monk is THE martial artist class... So give martial arts-like capstone abilities to others? That can basically do it better??? BOOOO.
Be me. Monk FA wrestler. Get TWO capstones. 😊
Monk was already on the Path to Perfection. There was little room to improve.
- Ancestral Weaponry part was not only fused, but expanded. Kobold can monk-wield the Light Pick witz Monastic + Weapon Familiarity
- Gorilla Stance probably needs a pass. Grapple on Unarmed is pretty useless. Adding intimidation to STR and DEX is pretty MAD.
- Peafowl Stance needs a pass. It did very little. It gave you free steps on class that already have way too much action compression.
- Butterfly Sword, Feng Hou Lun and Hook Sword are advanced Monk weapons.
- Fuse Stance still doesn't say "Monk Stances", but "Stances". So you can fuse in odder Stances.
I'm still relatively new, how is Grapple useless on Unarmed?
I was under the impression that you needed that Trait to apply item bonuses to Grapple checks. Do you not need that if you're fighting unarmed?
@@Sokolov5 No, that is still beneficial, but in practice it's quite likely you'll want a universval item bonus to athletics anyways to support multiple manuvers, jumping, and climbing. So it does provide some value, but the main Value of trip/grapple/shove/disarm on weapons is freeing up a hand, which is unnecessary with unarmed attacks.
@@TheGreatSquark ah, got it, thanks
Do Monastic Archer + Point Blank Stance is fuseable?
@@FireSeraph007 I don't see why not.
I hope they buff some of the monk weapons there are only like a couple, newer ones, that are good. Like that monk staff with d10 two hand. Like i'd like to use this advanced feat but what advanced monk weapons are good? The, previously, updated wind and fire wheels only do d4 damage for example lol. They were worth taking when they were d6.
I really hope the removed stuff returns eventually. Because Ashes and Time Oracle will be returning. So hopefully the missing stances will be back soon
*sees it's over half an hour*
ah, the short one!
Thank you for the much more comprehensive video. Most ppl seem to skim over monk which makes me sad. There's quite a chunk of changes. Qol mostly but important nonetheless.
Excellent, I've been looking forward to Monk coverage. It's possible that the excised content will be readded in the Tian Xia Character Guide.
yeah, any section about Quain is gonna be like 90% monk stuff lol
Thank you for working so hard on these. I've appreciated learning about PC2 ahead of time, sounds like overall it's been a great addition to the game.
I would've hoped that we got to see the dedications with this first looks, because I would like to know what you feel on the monk dedication change to flurry of blows now having a 1d4 CD
Overall, seems like the monk got refined quite a bit, and I hope the Tian Xian book give us some new goods for weapon stances.
oh boy crane stance now block range attacks
Lightning Qi isnt the most exciting feat for level 20, but Embrace Nothingness is so good that being able to cast it for 1 action most fights could be worth it. You will get value out of that all the time.
Love the PF2E content
I really like the Monk but the chassis itself seems a little light compared to other classes. It seems almost mandatory to take Stunning Fits and Stand Still (even if not straight away) limiting the options of actual feats. The whole magical/metal fists does not do a lot where as having something like Flurry of Maneuverers and/or the first Qi spell as core would help the monk class out overall.
They still get my vote for favourite "Fighting Man" class. It just seems you have to have Natural Ambition so you can get a Qi spell and martial arts/Monastic Weapons at level 1.
Hopefully the student of perfection archetype will get rid of it's feat tax for it's version of monasteric weapon feat if you alredy grabbed it as base monk
Diamond Soul and Timeless body are both classic D&D monk abilities from the SRD that Paizo had to nix. That said, I think their abilities were basically absorbed by other feats to make them generally better.
That said, I don't think the Qi Spells feats really need to be modified. You can only have a focus pool of 3 and there are so many focus spells to choose from at a variety of levels that it's kind of silly. Harmonize Self at lv 4, for instance.
Gorilla Stance is included in the Howl of the Wild archetype Wild Mimic. It's not legacy, per se.
Might be relocated to an upcoming book, Battlecry perhaps?
@@HenshinFanatic no, it's literally in Howl of the Wild (which is Remaster content) with the Monk trait. It's valid for use, afaik. In fact, Howl of the Wild says that it's supposed to be in Player Core 2. So, I believe it's either for space, or excluded in error.
@@leetaeryeo5269 and I'm extrapolating based on the former scenario where it was dropped for space.
Very sad to not see reflective ripple reprinted. I'm guessing that means the stance is gone? A shame, it was my favorite.
You are the best, thanks for all your work on these videos, which are the highlight of my day.
Falling damage is half fall distance so assuming 80 feet up from godbreaker it is only 40 guaranteed damage
40 from the fall, plus damage from 3 strikes on the way up and one on the way down. Probably with handraps of mighty blows striking.
Godbreaker in my mind is what Rock Lee does to Sasuke during the Chunin exam. XD
Magic item idea unbroken god pendent a piece of skull from a monk who failed to achieve this lofty goal
attunement monk
Once per day you can use the god killer feat but you take doable the fall damage and it cannot be reduced in any way unless you have the feat then you can do it for one less action at a bonus equal to the first map
I've done some math on Godbreaker, and unfortunately... it's actually pretty bad on the monk. It's better on either a Flurry Ranger or Agile Grace Fighter with Wrestler archetype. Bit disappointing that other classes uses the new Monk capstone better than it does, tbh. Very into the other changes, though!
@ADirtyEwok you will always hit an on level creature with an extreme ac for your first hit.
So, at worst, it's a free trip with your attack with the fall damage doing 20 extra damage. If you can get 2 attacks. That's 30 extra fall damage.
@@DGenHero It's three actions though. For two actions and a level 8 feat you can grab and trip with no MAP.
@@DGenHero Here's the breakdown: At 2 hits, Godbreaker is about the equivalent of 2.6ish landed strikes plus prone in exchange for the entirety of one turn plus setup on the previous turn. That's... fine. It's definitely nice not to have to roll for knocking them prone. I think I'd probably prefer Wolf Drag into Flurry with Stunning fists or Combat Grab most of the time, though, for equal or even *less* actions. Fine doesn't feel good enough to me for an investment of 3 Class feats from one of the most competitive lists in the game as well as a skill feat and multiple skill increases if you want to avoid damaging, debuffing, and inflicting an action tax on yourself the significant majority of the time. You have to focus a serious chunk of your entire build around this one ability just to avoid it being actively detrimental. That is not good.
Godbreaker becomes genuinely impressive when you hit 3 attacks, but for Monk, that won't happen often. Against an average on-level enemy at 20 with the standard High AC, a Monk will have a 60% baseline chance to hit. This gets bumped to 70% by off guard from grappling. Your first attack automatically hits them with Perfected Form, dope. you then have a 50% chance for attack two and a 30% chance for attack 3, meaning you have only a *15%* chance for the move you invested so much in to actually complete. Again, this is against an average on level enemy. Not a boss or even an on level enemy with extreme AC.
Conversely, an Agile Grace Fighter's chances to hit will be 80%, 65%, 50% for a total of a 52% chance to hit 2 attacks and 26% chance to hit all 3. Noticeably better than the Monk.
For the Flurry Ranger we are looking at 70%, 65%, 60% for a total of a 45.5% chance to hit 2 attacks and a 27.3% chance to hit all 3. Slightly worse chances to hit 2, *much* better to hit 3.
Any buffs to you or debuffs to the enemy skew the math more and more towards Fighter and Ranger, and I would expect them to be extremely common at this level. I feel quite comfortable saying that the Monk is not at all the best user of the Monk's new captstone. I wish it had been designed to be less punishing for the user considering the insane level of investment it requires, far more than any other captsone feat I can think of right now.
@ADirtyEwok
Thanks for the breakdown. Though I mostly have that down already.
I frankly agree, though. Having this capstone available to other classes emphasizes how lackluster it is on Monk.
I despise that it's available to an archetype.
Thanks fam!
23:57
the way that I read it, godbreaker would be only 60 ft max, unless you could do it like at an angle or something... but that'd be more than 60 ft in the air because of a change in elevation of the ground, not from godbreaker. (of note, this may be a RAW but not RAI reading, but... as long as it's up in some degree, (or more likely, MOSTLY up in the air as otherwise it'd be throwing 'out' not up) , the first throw might be able to get that extra falling distance from an angled throw, since the 'directly up' is only on the repeats.)
you throw the creature up into the air, (20) and strike. can repeat the 20ft up, up to two more times (40). Plus, the third strike says "if all three strikes are successful, you immediately grab the creature and bring it crashing to the ground" so even then. after the 3rd strike, you wouldn't have the time to throw further up and grapple, since it's immediate. there is no 'another' unarmed strike after the 3rd, as it says your unarmed strike damage, so the 3rd strike would be strike damage + falling.
So a fully successful godbreaker the way I read it would be
1) throw (20)
2) strike, then throw repeat 1 (40)
3) strike, then throw repeat 2 (60)
4) strike + piledriver/seismic toss (or whatever flavor of the immediate grab is.) for falling damage (whatever the 3rd strike damage was + falling)
"Moving the creature an additional 20ft into the air with each strike" Each strike suggests its happening with every strike. Youve just followed them up somehow.
@@dorianleakey my reading was reading it as the 'throw' could only be repeated twice.
Depends on where in the process the 'repeat' and 'throw' portions are, really.
After reading it further, I could see how the landing could be an extra unarmed strike but not confident on that, because especially in Monk, getting multiple different unarmed strikes, that the unarmed strike + falling damage should be on the type of the 3rd strike.
It seems the paired ki spells might be one option is speed, one is power (so heal wouldn't fit anyway) though i could be wrong.
I think ranger warden spells function the same now, though its set up more like witch lessons with different tiers and being able to take the feat's tier or below
Barb has the easiest time setting up godbreaker through grapple reaction and if you want to make it even more anime, add impressive landing reaction to flat foot and do a little extra dmg
The map sucks though
Side note, also leaves you and/or the target prone if either takes fall dmg per the usual rules.
I'm kinda sad they removed so much from so many classes, and archetypes. . .even going so far to nerf the monk archetype. It's just a bunch of strange choices overall that makes me feel like the book wasn't actually ready to be released yet and should have been delayed.
Noooooo, but I've been looking forward to all these new class changes. What will I do 😂
God breaker is.... interesting. Say you hit a creature on a seven. After that you would hit in an 11 and lastly on a 15 those are fairly good chances. Going from a 70, 50, than a 25% isn't the worst of chances.
Thanks!!!
I don't understand how godbreaker reaches up to 80feet? Can someone explain step by step? To me the wording makes it pretty clear it's 60 feet.
Monks got a lot of name changes thanks to the OGL, even if the name sounded generic. Its odd but its just paizo covering their butts.
Yeah, the reason for the name changes gets pointed out in the comments on every video so I'm not sure why he's still perplexed? Paizo were very clear about this being the case well before the remasters even started coming out.
@@ihatevnecks7015 I guess some name changes are less "obviously" connected to OGL? I dunno if, say, Ki Strike was at risk, or if that name was changed for other reasons.
What happened with Clinging Shadows Initiate and Wild Winds Initiate?
If he didn't mention them they probably didn't change I would guess
Was Sacred Ki removed?
Stronger than pf1 baseline monk, weaker than pf1 unchained monk
Elemental Fist still does not seem worth taking
shrink the span may be the worst rename in the remaster
yeah, odd.
Idk why advanced monastic weaponry doesn’t add martial weapons. That’s a 2 feat investment with no current stance. Would it really be that OP to let a monk use a greatsword?
... want to do a flurry with a greatsword?
Advanced monastic only give you advance MONK weapons, no all advance weapons.
@@9652769 Would be pretty cool
@@corsariosandrorect5238 At least it gives you hook swords.
First?