5 Scenes to Cut from Your Novel NOW
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You may have heard this piece of writing advice before: kill your darlings. But how? When you've written a novel, every word feels purposeful, so it can be difficult to determine what scenes to cut. Omitting extraneous scenes benefits your novel for numerous reasons: it helps you keep the length in check, and it encourages stronger reader engagement. In this video, I give you some examples of scenes you likely can cut from your novel to make for a more concise, effective narrative.
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SCENES TO CUT FROM YOUR NOVEL:
02:26 - Characters en route
03:54 - Vague dream sequences
05:07 - Overly long sex scenes
06:13 - Small talk or banter
07:38 - Static setting descriptions
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My book is now three pages long.
LOL!
Is it still 3 pages long ?💀
😂
My first draft was exactly like that how ever now you have 3 valuable pages🎉😎
Right? 😂😂😂
Well, this advice puts a real damper on my rough draft of "Bantering About Erotic Dreams While Driving From Miami to Saginaw Michigan."
😂
I'm writing a story about a dangerous expedition, so I have lots of travel scenes, but stuff is always happening during travel. I just love travel scenes.
1 The travel scene is good to depict the protagonist's inner dilemmas. The journey is boring, but that's why some people think then. The scene is static for action, but it is convenient to show the hero's inner world.
2. dreams can indicate the protagonist's emotional state because they reflect the protagonist's subconscious. If these dreams are repeated (or some element of them) it is a good starting point to deal with some emotional problem. Dreams can reflect trauma or fears about the future. But then you have to neatly tie them into the storyline and give them a meaning not previously understood. Dreams can be crumbs pointing to a larger problem.
3. he he, it really depends on why and how you write long sex scenes. If you neatly describe the character's emotional state, emotional intimacy, etc., alongside detailed descriptions, the reader will burn through even 3K words.
4. once again - well-written are interesting because you can introduce an element of humor or show tension between characters. Pay attention to what tone the characters speak in. Don't make a boring clog, but a conversation that will draw the reader in.
5. modern man has lost the ability to write static description. We don't need to describe what a zebra looks like because we can see a picture of it. If you want to give a description, make it a picture that will outline the atmosphere of the situation, allow you to enter the environment of the character. Is your painting going to be a light-playing Rembrandt or some impressionist?
ANY scene can be written boringly. ANY scene can be a gem that is a pleasure to read. A piece of wood is a piece of wood until the artist gives it shape. You don't have to throw these scenes away. Give them a beautiful, interesting shape.
I think she meant travel scenes that do not progress character development. I'm pretty sure she said that.
Unless you're George RR Martin writing the Dany chapter in the House of the Undying, I don't care about the dream. In the world of ASoIaF, its well established that dreams are always premonitions. That's fine. But, there are so many more character driven situations you can write to expose what's going on in your MC's subconscious. Dreams are cheap. Everyone has had dreams that apply to their life, and everyone has had completely random dreams. Since we assume in literature that everything in a novel is there for some purpose, dreams feel like you're getting spoon-fed information that could be exposed through character choice and action.
I don't read romance, but I'll again refer to George RR Martin for a great use of sex in fiction. When GRRM includes sex, it's never gratuitous just to arouse the reader. He always explores some other theme like power, love, abuse, etc. when he uses a sex scene, and it never overstays its welcome after he makes that point. If you're writing long sex scenes that are enjoyable because you're arousing your reader, that's fine, but you might not be writing the genre you think you are.
If its humorous or creating tension, its not small talk.
Saying "ANY scene can be written boringly. ANY scene can be a gem that is a pleasure to read." might be true, but is completely useless for someone starting this process from scratch.
Why are you debating each point? Lol
Generally speaking, I agree with all five of her points. They're not absolutes. I've enjoyed travel scenes and sex scenes and bantering scenes. But editing isn't about only cutting the material you hate, it's about cutting everything you can get away with and still tell your story.
Yea I wrote a transit scene but it was a character driving through the woods and I did it to show that she has a phobia of the woods, and then ofc it gets into why later
because they use all of them and are hesitant to cut so much. :D @@lisev415 My sense is that it's all in how you use the scenes. like with sex scenes, think "Forever" by Judy Blume. it was a "first time"... and was imperative to the character and story. Random dreams for the sake of dreaming... are not necessary, but dreams that are premonitory or hint to another universe, a past life, etc... can be part of what shapes a character's reactions, motivations and overall arc. Travel can be used cleverly if there are fantastical means/speeds/routes (i.e. dematerialization through solid matter, etc)... what she iterates consistently is that IF you have any of these kinds of scenes, make the best possible use of them if they are to SERVE THE STORY or character. Small talk... IF you must... should be about conveyng a state of mind (awkwardness, shyness, etc... think about how a wallflower at a party might say a few words then fade back into the background, or BLURT out something massively embarrassing... something that INFORMS their mindset or emotional state)... well at least that's what I took away from this vid. :D
As a romance writer and reader, "cutting the sex scene" just strikes me as an incredibly poorly thought out advice. I am sure that in the genres you have more experience with like thrillers - pointless sex scenes are often included, and in cases like these, sure they can be cut, But sex scenes can be a wonderful too to develop characters, relationships and even in some cases - world-building. Any time a romance cuts to black i literally hate it so much, it's my least favorite trope.
Agree
Couldn't agree more. Nicholas Sparks did this to me recently and I DNF'd ❤
I love the idea of sex scenes as world building!
I ended up killing a while plot thread that went nowhere and ultimately removed an entire character because they did not serve the narrative. This is good advice and very hard.
Whew, that's a huge cut to make! Thank you for sharing some of your process with us!
I can't agree with cutting all of the journey scenes as sometimes an important conversation can take place vital to the story within that journey.
She covered that. Pay attention.
@@clintcarpentier2424 Chill out Norman
@@singin8324
That response would fall under pointless banter, and should be cut.
@@clintcarpentier2424 yeah, just like your reply, pointless, just like your life, pointless. Shall I continue.
@@singin8324
By all means, continue to represent the video in glorious inanity for us filthy plebs to learn from.
Imagine..before youtube you just had to be a good writer.
haha Though it's probably more like, "before the modern era..." People usually don't think about how writing (and really I mean reader's tastes and demands) have changed and evolved over the years. Examine this video, which is all terrific advice, then go and read a Mark Twain novel. Yeah. It's beautiful prose, but you just can't write that like anymore. Agents and publishers won't consider a book that spends so many words on non-impact description, scenes, or characters. It just doesn't happen. In the old days you did great if you could write with poetry, now you have to write with purpose.
@@alaexanderhawkins6324 Not exactly. The best way to get traditionally published is to have a following. That's why many booktubers get published with really sub par books. Agents nowadays have certain considerations before publishing that are connected to marketing instead of how good the book is.
Not sure what this comment means. These conversations existed between writer/editor/agent and have been in books and magazine articles for ages. She is just making them available to everyone here and his helping you become a good or better writer.
Salty and inane 😄😄😄
Really helpful video but sometimes dream sequences are important. These kind of sequences started as a niche for mystery, thriller, sci fi, fantasy genre but now it is used som many times, it looks cliche. So sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Depending on your audience. YA feel uncomfortable with sex scenes when most of the adults feel annoyed when the writer shy away and fade to black. This feels really prudish especially if you include blood and gore and injury details in other aspects of the book. Oversexualizing is boring, but if you include one or two sex scenes it should be decently laid out between graphic details also convey emotions and the way the relationship is set up. (I'm European, so maybe it is just a difference in perception)
I think you nail the crucial point on the head here, regarding violence and sex scenes! If any scene is conveying emotions and showing how character relationships fold out, then it's useful to the story and should be kept. But, gratuitous sex scenes or gore/violence can take away from the story overall.
I'm guilty of the setting descriptions. While revising my haunted house novel, I've found large chunks of description that just isn't necessary. Everyone can imagine a haunted mansion, they don't need me to describe the crown molding, curtain fabric and furniture! I'm learning that less is more: one good description in a sentence can carry an entire room.
With regard to sex scenes, I am reminded of some advice from a screenwriter from the 30s and 40s (I believe it was Ring Larndner) who said (with regard to violence in particular) that the intimation of violence (or sex) is a dozen times more effective than the actually showing of it.
Great video! I will say as a reader that I disagree on cutting the sex scenes short, or worse, fading to black right after it's initiated. After slogging through however many chapters (however enjoyable), driven forward by a slow-burn romantic subplot, I find a fade-to-black sex scene almost insulting. It feels like a cop out and honestly, while it shouldn't be too graphic, anything less than 2 pages is too short. If I wanted to imagine the sex scene then frankly, I may as well imagine the rest of the book too.
I'll read just about any genre for a romance subplot and while a sex scene isn't required, I'm always hoping to get what I came for at some point.
Imagine the sex scene? Pfft, please. What am I even reading this for then?
They're my personal views based on my reading preferences.
The author may prefer not to write a sex scene and that's their decision, but a steamy lead up deserves a steamy climax!
Go hard, or go home, lol what else is there to say?
That's a fair point! One think I love about writing is how subjective it can get, and I'm sure people agree with you too!
Hey, I thought the same. I think the behaviour of a character in bed says a lot about their personality. Maybe a battle-hardened commander is a big softie in the sheets or maybe a demure character becomes a dominatrix. Maybe we don´t need all the details but how the sex happens is important, especially if those events have consecuences.
Agreed! Steamy romance novels include all the details. It's what I want to read, what my readers expect, and what I love to write. If readers don't want that, they can choose another genre. Bring on the smut!
I read a lot of romance (both YA and adult), and I actually get very irate if there's a fade to black sex scene when the book has been hinting at one all the way through.
A great example of this is The Shadows Between Us by Tricia Levenseller. That book is such an overly risque YA fantasy romance (it opens with the character kicking out a naked man she just had sex with ffs!) that promises that the readers will see relationship growth in the form of a sexual union between the two characters, but instead it fades to black and completely cops out. It felt cowardly--like the author was teasing the readers only to chicken out at the last minute.
But it was a crucial scene for character growth. In that book, the main characters are both heartless and afraid to fall in love, but ultimately the female falls for the male lead and she decides to "give in" and have sex, then there is a fade to black, and then she magically is in love with him. Well...why? What made her change her mind? What did he or didn't he do? The author didn't bother to show either of them being vulnerable or tender with each other. How am I supposed to believe they are passionately in love when I've never seen them passionately in love? You can't just tell me they are, which is what happened because there was no sex scene or another scene where we actually see the main characters' emotional shift. And so... the book lost what I thought would be the emotional turning point, and everything that happened after that fell flat. I couldn't believe the two characters were in love at any point.
The sex scenes don't need to be graphic or excessively lengthy by any means, but there should be something that shows the shift in relationship or the depth of emotions experienced by the characters through a love scene. Skipping over it--especially when the author seems to set it up as the culmination of a romantic relationship--kills the momentum.
I agree, for romance, anything less than two pages is too short. But I do agree with most of the posters here that being overly detailed is gross and laughable. I also agree that omitting sex scenes sometimes is the best option, but, honestly, there are some books that just need them.
My problem with that is: sex is not love, nor is love sex. It depends on the kind of tension. If it's a pure romance, sex is not necessary. If it's an erotica, romance is not necessary. We understand what you're saying, but the payoff has to match the story.
I actually love trippy dream sequences, especially Phillip K Dick does them so well. But yes to all of this in general. Lol and now feeling like I’ve got a ton to cut from my current WIP!
Yes to all, but especially long sex scenes. I skim through them, usually I just read the dialogue and random sentences so I can figure out when it's safe to start reading again.
I'd also cut scenes a couple of lines earlier than most writers do.
Great job, Alyssa! Clean, clear, crisp dialogue and description. "Setting details must be rooted in the characters' experience.". What a great piece of advice.
Glad it was helpful!
Oh no 😅 i love banter. I always thought that if i love to see it in the books I read, someone would feel the same about my novel
Banter can be fun, but pages and pages of it can get tiring!
My advice is that even if these feel "realistic" or "necessary" to say, never spend more than a paragraph on them. In fact most times you barely need a sentence. It's perfect fine to write something like: "They rushed to the station and caught the very next train into London," or "He woke with pounding heart, but already the dream of running from his furious wife was starting to fade." Perhaps: "She interrupted her mother's routine complaints about the neighbours to get right down to business." Sometimes it's important to remember that not every event needs a scene all to itself!
damn i felt that pain when she said cut the travelogue scenes. I always end up doing a lot of those
Keep in mind, in Game Of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, most of the scenes are travel scenes. If most of your character-building and plot happens in transition from one location to the next, it might not be a good idea to just chop them all out, since the in-between spaces have been turned into plot spaces.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox those are also books that are decades old, in one case almost a century old. The truth is modern standards are completely different. Those books are already classics. Nowadays an agent/editor will be far less likely to accept such scenes and you can confirm this by looking at any modern fantasy title where such scenes are almost nonexistent
@@etluxaeterna Then why’d you write them?
@@UltimateKyuubiFox cus like every writer, I'm egotistical and think that I'm the unique snowflake to whom the rule won't apply cus my writing's so special haha
in a game of thrones, tyrion and catelyn got attacked by tribesmen during their travel. is it better to cut those travel scenes and have them attacked by those tribesmen after they arrive at winterfell? that won't make sense. a lot of conversations in daenarys povs happen on horsebacks because the dothrakis are nomads. is it better to make them farmers instead just to avoid having travel scenes? she of course talks about those travel scenes that don't add much to the progression of the plot. but i'm bad at it myself. haha.. i love writing travel small talks.
2:26 this reminds me of Stephen King's "The Shinning" where we spend so much time dealing with Mr. Halloran's travel arrangements in excruciating detail😂😵💫
My WIP has several dream sequences, haha. In my defense, the MC has psychic dreams, so even the symbolic content provides plot details. And the MC unpacks what the dreams meant as the story progresses.
Yep, I can't get along with the travel cut - siding with the journey not the destination mamtra. But I love the idea of entrapment, where a character can't get away from the conflict until arriving at their destination.
This was one of my favorite videos of yours. Not because I agree 100% with everything, but because I agree 100% that these things should be carefully considered. Some of these points bring to mind The Thursday Murder Club, which does a great job of most of these points.
A lot of sci-fi and fantasy I read from the 80s and 90s was pretty rough & fell short on one or more of these points.
Long travel descriptions + dream sequences: see Tad Williams's "The Dragonbone Chair".
Tried to get into Anne McCaffrey's "Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern" - a ton of banter. It's like the characters forgot they're in a novel and are chit-chatting rather than speaking their lines. 😅
I'd say fiction writers have improved over the decades(?).
I feel a lot better about my manuscript after listening to this
Super helpful tips. Thank you!
When I first realized I didn't need to add traveling in my book I cheered. I absolutely hate writing point A to point B scenes. It's just a waste unless (like you said) there is something going on. A perfect example of that would be THG where katniss travels to the capitol. A lot goes on, on that journey.
Haha. Funny you use the travel example because my whole true story revolves around being on an aircraft, I think it's encouraging that you said "in most cases".
With small talk you can do like Jane Austen and just describe in prose that they had small talk about something before getting into the meat of their conversation. Any boring dialogue can just be reduced to a line that describes what they talked about "He filled her in on the details" without actually wasting the reader's time reading all of the dialogue.
Super helpful video, Alyssa. Beta readers might only be able to say that they started skimming or overall there was too much detail, but won't be specific about what they'd cut, or don't want to tell a writer what to cut. I have seen readers complain about sex that takes place off the page, but those are with romance novels where readers expected steam. I agree with you that less is usually more.
I have recently deleted most transit scenes from my novel, having come to a similar conclusion on my own :D I think it is a classic beginner's mistake, really, because we feel the need to tell ALL, the way we imagine it. IMO Alyssa's advice is typically spot-on - you just have to keep in mind that she is talking of scenes that DO NOT have any other purpose in the story. If something important happens in transit, or the character has some important thoughts on the way, or sees something that will be significant later on, then of course the scene should stay. Sometimes, especially in fantasy or sci-fi, a transit scene could also be an important element of world-building. But if it is just about getting the character from A to B, it's best to lose it, in my opinion.
I had to stop this video halfway through to re-read some latter chapters of my manuscript to see if a 'cull' was needed. Thankfully, no, but I can see now that towards the end, I will need to thin it out or I will not be able to keep it under 100,000 words!! Thanks for the useful insights and advice. M.
I'm glad you were able to spot the trouble area! Best of luck with editing!
Great video. I’m someone who thinks and writes a lot about dreams and metaphors. Even though I probably won’t cut out all of that, your insight about dream sequence and haziness, as well as how it might interrupt pacing, was very helpful. I have made some notes and will make a point to ensure that my abstract references are highly relevant and used minimally. I also realized how stories, like mine, that benefit from dreams within them should be clear and condensed within any dream sequence, just like you were saying about dialogue and banter. Excellent points. Thank you!
As with all of her comments, it all depends. Absolutes are walls meant to be broken. You will also see established authors violate ALL of these rules in pursuit of their muse's wishes. WRITE THE STORY THAT'S IN YOU... then have others read it and edit accordingly.
Funny thing, many of these scenes mentioned are the scenes new writers say they struggle with the most to write. I constantly hear new writers say, "I know the cool parts of my story and am excited to write them, but I struggle with the filler." My solution: Don’t write the filler.
I won’t be too specific on these types of scenes because these types of scenes could still serve a purpose depending on how they're written. But I get that your overall point and take away is to cut filler scenes, which is valuable and true.
I would say there's a narrow exception to every one of these "rules" on what to cut out:
*1. Characters en route:* If all they do is stare out the window or something boring like that, then yes, you can probably dispose of that whole "scene" in one sentence, e.g. "The trip was a major foretaste of Hell: neither of them dared look at or say one word to each other all the way home." If they actually say and/or do something interesting and plot-related on the way, though, it's definitely a scene worth keeping. Just look at some of the interesting conversations characters in various series from the Star Trek franchise have had with each other in turbo lifts while en route to their jobs, for instance.
*2. Vague dream sequences:* If they really are too vague, then yes, just skip them or (again) dispose of them in one sentence, e.g. "He had a really weird dream that night that made him wake up laughing, but he never could remember exactly why," and leave it at that. If they're really specific and memorable and have an immediate direct influence on the story, however, keep them. Think of e.g. Moses' dream in Prince of Egypt (1998) which presented Pharaoh's massacre of Hebrew babies as animated hieroglyphs, and then how he comes to the horrified realization immediately afterward that it wasn't just a dream; that's just great storytelling there.
*3. Overly long sex scenes:* This depends somewhat on how you define what's "overly" long. If the sex scene is a climactic consummation of a long build-up, your readers will probably feel cheated if you just fade out when the happy couple goes into the bedroom and then fade back in the next morning for some pillow talk. My rule is that if the scene makes a big difference to the plot, such as it being the couple's first time ever and/or the first time they actually managed to enjoy the experience (as in e.g. the marital consummation scene in A Rose In Winter by Kathleen Woodiwiss), feel free to wax eloquent and explicit; if you're past such climactic moments and dramatic plot twists and such and the couple are now routinely enjoying each other, just mention in passing that they had more fun in the sack last night and let it go at that.
*4. Small talk or banter:* Again this depends on whether it's important to the plot. If you can write clever stuff that leads into great comedic or dramatic moments as in a Quentin Tarantino movie (e.g. the seemingly banal conversation between a loving couple in a restaurant at the beginning of Pulp Fiction which ends with them whipping out their guns and sticking up all the restaurant's other patrons), then you should definitely keep scenes like that. If not, then yes, cut them.
*5. Static setting descriptions:* Yes, you should probably skip writing any walls of text about the static setting, especially at the beginning of your book before the readers have even met your characters. You should also avoid having your characters do inept "As you know..." info-dumps that resemble no real-life conversation anyone has ever, ever had. In the interest of avoiding that latter pitfall, however, you as the author may find it necessary to explain these things to the reader yourself. The secret is to keep these explanations as concise as possible (e.g. no more than a sentence or two) and provide them only when you can't find any plausible way to show your readers what you mean rather than just telling them about it.
All of these points can be summed up with the question "does this advance the story?" Your reasoning and illustrations are good examples.
Very sound advice. Terrific video series Alyssa
Glad it was helpful!
I had flashbacks in my novel that are very important to present day, but now I've decided to make these beginning chapters to build up to the main section, climax, and ending. What I've found a little difficult is moving up and transitioning the chapters through time because it begins when the characters are younger but it explains one's weird dependency on the other and why one of the girls went kind of looney in the main part. If I cut any of those it takes away from the story. I hope they aren't considered scenes that need to be cut.
Alyssa, i read a post-Civil War novel about a female Pinkerton agent. It was an interesting novel, BUT ... every time the writer talked about her clothes, she described EVERYTHING the woman wore from the skin out, even down to the ribbons on her pantaloons. I got to where i just skipped over them. It was probably 150k novel. If the author had cut out even half of them, it would have only been 95k.
My characters magically appear wherever they're going, because I hate reading travel scenes.
I also personally hate reading overly long description text and narrative exposition.
Looking at you Mr. King.
Two characters who dislike each other making disparaging small talk because everything each says of the other is true?
Thank you for this advice
I am on my 6 revision and by watching this video, I am not ready for, hopefully, my last before copy editing. The tips were excellent for me, a new writer. Thank you
I’d like to ask about the small talk and banter advice. I’m thinking of Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy. Their banter was the best part of the novel for me. Also Quentin Tarantino’s dialogue (I know, not a novelist) is often so much banter but it’s pure gold. Royale with Cheese, anyone?
Cut…banter? I’ve been devouring sweet/clean regency romance lately and banter is my constant companion. I don’t write it well though, so it’s advice I wouldn’t mind taking to heart as a (fantasy) writer.
I'm struggling with my conscience over a scene quite early in my novel that is two chapters long. So much happens in this scene and I really enjoy going through it because it sets up the rest of the story and it's all relevant but it's so long!
I'll admit that static setting descriptions have gone out of style these days. If you read some older well known novels many of them include scene setting descriptions in them. Todays readers I think have a much shorter attention span and want stories to come at them fast and furious. For example; I can't imagine many younger readers getting through Count of Monte Christo or even Ken Kersey's Sometimes a Great Notion. But I still think they have a place in certain instances to give the reader an image of where the action is taking place. Probably old fashioned but that's what I think....
But transit scenes can be a good place to put backstory and character history. If your novel is character driven, important events in their lives are important to understanding character motivation. Trying to drop this information in drips and drabs throughout the book may not be enough. You might need somewhere you can relate an important story in the character's background. It can be a bit of a data dump. I know data dumps are highly discouraged. Sometimes, I would argue it is needed and travel scenes are a good place to insert some of this information. Also, I believe that travel scenes, if they are tied to character development or the story, in general, they can be good for pacing. If an author moves from critical scene to critical scene, he's in this city, now he's in that city, it can feel a bit jarring for the reader. As for dream sequences, I would agree, they should not be vague. That is just confusing for the reader. However, dream sequences, when done right, can foreshadow events or can provide clarity to the protagonist's actions. They are difficult to write without seeming hokey, but in some cases, in some types of novels, I think they can work. I generally agree with limiting sex scenes. Not a big fan of erotica or gratuitous sex. But there is space between erotica and sex scenes written with purpose. It really depends on the type of novel. Sex scenes can provide a level of emotional connection between characters that can be lost if you stop at the bedroom door. I understand that many readers don't want those details, but I would argue that if you write two versions of the same book, one with the scenes intact and another where they are deleted and only hinted at, the emotional connection the reader perceives between the characters will be altered. I just did this exercise with a book I just finished. The difference wasn't vast, but it was noticeable. Comes down to how the author wants to handle the relationship between his/her characters--on the sleeve or in the reader's imagination. Absolutely agree with tips on banter and description. I like dialogue, but it has to have a point. Same thing with description.
I have two travel scenes in my entire novel, but one is more of a life lesson that just happens to take place on a walk and the second is the first scene after a time jump with a family argument that sets up what happened over the last two years and what’s about to go down. The rest of them got cut a long time ago.
It sounds like you know exactly what purpose your scenes provide! Good luck with the process :)
Definitely gave me something to think about!
Glad it helped!
Ever read American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis? 😁
The whole first chapter is traveling from one place to another and small talk and nothing significant happening. In fact, most of the dialogue is small talk. There are whole chapters where he describes his apartment, several chapters dedicated to describing music albums, in fact, Bateman (via stream of consciousness) describes each and every character by the same attributes (clothing, shoes, haircuts) each time he bumps into them.
Probably nothing in dream sequences, but he does hallucinate a lot, and the book does cut away to him imagining he's a writer for Rolling Stone or something.
And sex scenes are long and graphically detailed.
At the same time, American Psycho was probably the most controversial novel of the 1990s, but also one of the most successful non-genre/derivative books of its decade. It probably takes a rare author to write something like it, successfully.
I'm going to disagree with you on the dream sequences, mostly because I write a lot about lucid dreams, astral projection, foresight dreams and so on.
Sure, I agree if the dream sequence is just page count filler, cut it, but just like in real life, sometimes, some people dream stuff that are vivid and give that sense of "I should pay attention to it," and they end up discussing such weird dreams with a friend. This can be a part of the plot, depending on the genre.
Again, dreams that aren't ordinary dreams are a staple of my writing so, I disagree with you there, but I understand your advice here is not genre-specific, so I get it. Just sharing it in case of another writer getting anxious for the same reason I would have gotten anxious in the past about this advice.
I think "vivid" is the differentiator here, vs. the "vague" sequences Alyssa mentioned. If all you've got in a scene is evocative imagery that doesn't connect to the story in a way that's meaningful for your audience, then you've created a failure to communicate.
I like a dream sequence too, but I much prefer to both read and right something that is concrete (even if it's, you know, dreamlike) and moves the plot forward rather than something that's an aside.
Unnecessary POV. Usually the POV of an inconsequential character; that is, they didn't exist until this scene, and you never hear of them again. Sometimes it's the POV's of several characters experiencing the scene at the same time; pick one, unless there's some critically important character dynamic that MUST be portrayed, it's just clutter; a well defined character doesn't need there POV explained when a different POV can tell it better, or give clues to their character.
Just because there are seven "known" people in a scene, doesn't mean they all MUST have their presence felt, (anime is bad for this). It takes one person to have a scene, six extra faces/voices is just static noise. It takes two (maybe three) people to have a conversation; unless the others would have info/knowledge the conversers wouldn't, staple their yaps shut!
Conversations had during a violent action. An internal monologue might be believable, but language is sloppy. Any information transfer between combatants during a knock-out strike, infers time for a block or dodge. Likewise experienced combatants don't act dumbly; if they have time to recognize something is about to happen, to who and from where, they have time to react to it before it is happening; if an experienced fighter has to play dumb for a scene to work, cut the scene.
@jolie
I haven't read or watched it, so bear with the following stupid questions. Keep in mind, I'm assuming you're intelligent enough to see Robert Munch as the shitty writer he is.
Does the POV of the NPC lay the groundwork of the story? Seems rather vague, but the rules/theme/expectations can be laid out with a proper prologue even when it doesn't involve anyone of "import".
Are they verbally completing entire sentences to their opponents during a critical strike. This is not merely taking a moment during a break in action, to convey a quip of information to an ally; nor is it having conversation during a ruled duel. This is, I'm begun my knock-out/fatal strike, and I'm gonng tell you all about it before it connects, gwahahahaha BAM!
"And almost every person speaks in every chapter..."
I almost didn't respond because of this line. In order for you to write this line, you had to not understand what I said in my OP, so understand this much, I am making an effort for you; I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you!
Seven characters in a scene (not a chapter, a scene)...
C1 - We need to get to X and stop Joe.
C2 - Yeah, if Joe gets to X and does Y, we're all fucked.
C3 - X is really hard to get to though.
C4 - Joe isn't very smart, can he do it?
C5 - Yeah, and Joe is hairy... and smelly.
C6 - I know the way to X.
C7 - Joe isn't a vegan!
The thing about POV, though, is that it can be manipulated to tell the story. No two characters see the scene the same way.
@@adamhenrysears3288
My point in that regard is, who's POV tells the scene the best?
@@clintcarpentier2424 Of course. And whose POV is interesting enough to warrant seconds, or thirds.
This was a great watch. I can basically out all the boring crap I didn't wanna write anyways 😂
Don't write elaborate sex scenes (thinks about Anne Rice's supernatural vampire books, mummy book and werewolf books). Don't write passages describing the world setting (thinks about J.R. Tolkien and Robert Jordan). I'm not sure these tips are universal if so many bestselling authors go against them.
_None_ of her tips are universal, just personal opinion. In principle, however, she's basically saying if you're going to use these elements, use them mindfully, not as filler.
In my debut novel I had a detailed intercourse scene. Some loved it or didn't mind it, while others, including my editor, thought it should be cut down a bit. Since then, I made my scenes short but steamy enough and had no complaints. In my latest novel, in a review, this was stated: The work carries a light sensual undertone, especially towards the ending, without being too graphic.
Otherwise I have removed scenes I thought didn't go nowhere or didn't suit the story. The more I wrote, the clearer and easier it gets. I usually think of movies as there you want interesting things to happen.
I find this video quite useful. It was as if you've seen my manuscript. I will make an effort to cut off the unnecessary parts of the story even as I love them so much or blend them into the story.
Glad it was helpful!
If theres no transit scenes then the story feels like a video game with characters just spawning here there and everywhere. If you have a scene and you just say they journeyed a week to this location , you have your scenes there, then you say they journeyed to this next location after 3 days, even though youre telling them they arent teleporting , it feels like they are. So sometimes I think some travel scenes are needed, provided theres actual entertaining interactions happening.
Thank you!
I've been deleting most of my wake up/falling asleep scenes. Beginning and opening the chapter with the first and last actions of the day works better.
I'm going to argue the banter point. Now it can be overdone and make the relationship(s) superficial or cheesy, but if intermixed with more serious dialogue and/or emotions it can really anchor a relationships dynamics and interplay.
Ive made an event about travelling, one guy and another guy talk deep. Sort of forced proximity
This is good advice. I'm going to have to cut some of the dialogue from my banter/flirtation scenes, aren't I? 😅
Haha, just think of how much tighter your narrative will be if you do!
Alyssa, the actual quote is:
Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it-whole-heartedly-and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings. Arthur Quiller-Couch, Nobel laureate in literature.
Misattributions to Faulkner and Hemingway are common and usually are rendered as, “Kill your darlings.”
Personally? I murdered one-third of my rough draft, even though most of it was exceptionally fine writing. ;))
Excellent comment! I've attributed the bastardization to King, myself, and been corrected in favor of Faulkner. Glad to know the original quote!
I've also seen it attributed to King, as the much more King-styled "kill your babies." Not quite as Nobel-laureate in tone.
I murdered a whole manuscript. I started over from scratch. It was devastating
I think the advice makes sense to a point. I read mostly fantasy so that is my own bias. All of the above can be used, if either the wordplay or the plot/character revelation happening because of it is entertaining,
Lord of the Rings is a travel novel. One of my favorite passages in Wheel of Time was Rand and Matt traveling to Andor (but it also was fraught with tension, which is why it worked.) Are you Robert Jordan, or Tolkien? If you are, please get your book published, I miss well written prose that can get away with Sound and Fury about Nothing :)
I'm not sure what is meant by static setting description. Again, to me the place/location can be a character in and of itself. I actually think newer books make too many assumptions or rely on the reader just groking "medieval fantasy" or "pseudo renaissance intrigue romance". To me if you don't need to place the story, or you need too much exposition for the reader to understand, that's the problem (IMHO).
I do agree about dreams, unless you are Neil Gaiman 😛(Or Patrica McKillip or Charles De Lint)
Note, this is all from the perspective of a reader.
I'm not so sure about the dream sequence, because if they are relevant to the plot or to show what the character subconsciously feel they might be an interesting tool, but I 100% agree on the overly-detailed sex scenes. At least to me, they feel more like funny than sensual, especially the ones were they start wrecking the place out of "PaSsIoN"
*Looking at you, Witcher series* 😅
I personally hate dream sequences. they usually feel confusing and cheap to me
@@nessie968 As a Lucid Dreamer and Lucid Dream author, I can tell you that people HATE hearing about dreams.
Dream sequences are so cliche. Don't do them.
if you need a dream sequence to show a character's subconscious, you're doing the writing wrong.
@@albyaraujo597 this, exactly! there are so many ways to reveal the character's state of mind. like word choice, their dialogue, metaphors they use, their character voice, etc. Dream sequences just limit your creativity
I could imagine to write small talk. Image someone has to tell another person that someone died. And the reader knows this. And then the person starts to do small talk as the reader knows what he really wants to say but is not brave enough to do so. This could work.
The long sex scenes part 😂😂 instantly thought of Sarah J Maas and Coleen hoover. I had to skip through pages and pages of cringy TMI scenes !!
Hi, I have 2 dream sequences in my novel which are very short indeed. Do you think that would be OK? The reason for them is quite self evident, immediately so... Love what you are doing here by the way, i've watched a LOT of your videos! Very helpful :)
Generally, these are useful pieces of advice. But I would differ with her on cutting out travel scenes. Many good stories contain essential travel scenes. For example, Tolstoy’s "Anna Karenina" and "Resurrection," Kawabata’s "Snow Country"; Baldacci’s "Christmas Train"; and Rowling’s "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone."
Per usual, these are good tips for any genre as long as you remeber the expectations of tje genre. Ther ate scifi/fan that are action adventures based in travel. Romances have sex scenes- but do you need them all in detail. And so forth. TY for making me think.
The thing about sex scenes, that's something a lot of people need to hear. I'd extend that up to just "damn she's hot" descriptions too. So many fruit metaphors...
I’m especially guilty of this! My WIP is historical fiction set in Ancient Rome, and I feel the need to include seemingly extraneous scenes like gladiatorial fights or baths or a play to immerse readers in the world of Ancient Rome. But when I read my overall story, I realize it’s pointless to the overall plot lol!
Along that line, by any chance can you recommend someone who can give me feedback on historical fiction? Majority of TH-cam videos are on contemporary novels that don’t feel relevant to me.
Nice video. All the scenes makes sense. :D
I have a question. Like with the first scene, example you point out it depends on the context. I am working on a preeteen Urban Fantasy book, were my protagonist gets kinda telepathic messages from a lindwyrm and i have a scene were it manifests itself as a dream. Is that one of those situation were i could keep the "vague dream sequences" or should i cut it. Tbh i like the scene because it shows how creepy it is for my main character, but if dream sequences is kinda outdated today, i am open to simple cut it. :)
Thanks again for at very informative video. :D
I find it very difficult as a writer to focus on anything that doesn't impact the story in some way. I couldn't bring myself to focus on unnecessary filler just for the padding.
A comment I once read about sex scenes makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, it has been many years since I read the quote so I cannot remember who said it,. But the gist of it was, "We all make love the same way, more or less, so why bother describing it?" That was good sense advice when you think about it, and something that has always stayed with me. Making love really is a series of common actions that most of us engage in and are familiar with the mechanical functions thereof, and while there will be variations with every individual and every couple, the act itself is pretty universal (i.e., do we really need the writer or narrator to spell it out for us?). In my own writing, I like to give just enough detail to tease the reader and set the scene-. For example, is the sex going to be violent, extremely vigorous (maybe the characters have been fighting their attraction for weeks, months or years and it finally ignites) or gentle and sweet, or maybe there is a darker, perverse element to it. But once I set the tone, I usually prefer to close the bedroom door and leave it there. An obvious exception, of course, might be if something about the sex act becomes crucial to the plot. In that case, I think it is still important for writers to use their best judgment in selecting only those details needed to get us to that bit of critical information. No one really wants to read a blow-by-blow sex scene unless it IS erotica, which is another beast altogether.
There's a whole subgrene of women who want steamy scenes. We are legion. 😆
I skimmed the heck out of the last two ASOIAF books.
Welp. I don’t have any of these and my book is nearing 174k words. Lol, guess I’ll have to dig a little deeper.
Doesn't hurt to ask yourself if you can segment your book. If you like long stories, then writing one isn't the issue. I prefer series myself, and that leads to my preference for 300 page books, and my writing reflects that. I would sooner make multiple books, than write a 1200 page hand crippler.
My books are equally long as yours, so I structure them in three parts. I offer each part as a separate book and all parts together in a big book as originally intended. Takes a lot of work to properly structure the story and word count, though.
My dream scenes are usually like two sentences long
How do you feel about letters that the MC is reading. Should you write it out (especially if it's a little long) or narrate it?
My story has an important dream sequence. It's more of a nightmare. Basically, all of his fears are coming to life, then afterwards there's self-realization, and then he faces the main villain in that dream.
I used to read fan-fictions and there is a reason why they are boring to read and why "Kill your darlings" exist: they are directionless. A story has to follow a theme or a character-arc and, following the motto of writing story in the most effective way, cut out scenes that have nothing to do with the direction.
Fan-Fiction are written by fan with little knowledge on story telling and it is an inescapable example on the matter. I don't says that all fan-fictions are badly written. As a bookworm who read stories on paper, I got bored.
Dream sequences can be effectively used as foreshadowing, but not necessarily as a premonition. For example, my current novel involves a high-tech plane. Early in the story, my MC is in no danger, whatsoever, from the plane. However, he has a fear of flying due to a related childhood trauma. So, a short, surrealistic dream sequence of him being a passenger on a doomed plane gives a bit of his backstory while tying him inexorably to the high-tech plane.
Honestly, I feel that you're far too definitive in your advice, which could be discouraging to new writers (I've seen this in the comments of other videos). Maybe there's a way to convey the information without scaring them off? I have no idea.
That's fair, and a good way to use a flashback scene for multiple purposes! I think a good thing to keep in mind when receiving any kind of feedback, not just for writing or for creative pursuits, is that ultimately you are the artist. My opinions and observations come from my own specific perspective, and each writer can choose to accept all, some, or none of the words I say! This may be a video featuring myself, but ultimately I want this to be a community of writers and readers helping each other out. Thanks for sharing!
@@AlyssaMatesic Well, you're doing a *phenomenal* job, so please take my observations in that context in _all_ of my comments; i.e. I want aid your success due to the high quality of your content. Thanx for doing this :^)
one of my villains can invade people's dreams so for my mc its very important. Not only does it reveal so much about him (& my character actually develops due to it) but it foreshadows an overwhelming danger that will soon come
On a previous manuscript I wrote. I had two different stories in it. I decided to brake them up but I used the flip from one story to the other when a couple were getting too hot and heavy. What are some good ways to leave a sex scene?
What about if it's a villain that can't be cut? He's making a journey to attack a distant land, and I give updates where he is during his journey. I do include some action scenes during these moments.
Imagine telling Victor Hugo that he needed to cut out his setting description.
Maybe writers can cut on physical description.weave them with events instead
Don't destroy them completely - save them for a rainy day.
I just cut the dreams out of my ms the other day, phewf
Congrats! It hurts to cut out scenes but your manuscript will be stronger for it!
5.52. Intimacy and sex scenes to be cut unless your writing an erotica....You better tell the L.J James who Wrote 50 shades series then
I skipped almost a quarter of 50 shades because of the lewd scenes. Who would want to read all of that?
@@shinjaycho5789 I would and I did.
❤ ❤❤but what a dreams like the Wizard of Oz ?
If one was writing a novel in the form of a first person memoir.....wouldn't it seem strange to jump from occurrence to occurrence with no self-reflection and rumination?
I disagree with both the first and second scenes. Murder on The Orient Express, Titanic (1997), Airplane (1 & 2), and Star Trek are all by in large stories that take place while in transit. As for vague dream sequences that seems more like your personal dislike for rather then something that needs to be cut. My advice in that case would be to not over do them with surrealism. Like the sex scene less is more.
I guess I will have to pare the part about going through the McDonald's drive-thru.
how about making a video about novel structures? Where to place the beats in the three act structure, etc.
Welp I've got a transit scene, two sex scenes, a dream sequence and some small talk..... But I'm doing things with all of them. For example, I use small talk for comic effect--the awkwardness is the joke. And I use my transit scene to contrast suburban Peter Pan buses with city buses. And my sex scenes are also played for laughs, not for titillation... My dream sequence plays on the character's guilt.... So I think you can have all these things and they aren't necessarily good or bad. It's what you do with them. And all of them I do keep fairly brief. Long descriptions I agree with but many famous writers break that rule. I read Michael Chabon's Wonder Boys. Pretty acclaimed novel. There's like a 5 page description of a greenhouse. It's massively boring but I guess some readers must have liked it...
*listens to video*
Me: That's like my whole book. 😂😬
Hmmm... Maintain focus on main story line. Well, there go the subplots. But gee wiz. Other writing advice channels laud sub plots saying they provide a needed break and make the main story "refreshed" when it is returned to. I'm so confused. (hopefully this post isn't too late to attract helpful flack)
Just discovered Alyssa, and it appears that her intended audience is novice writers.