My inciting incident begins in the first line, and also happens to be my hook. I'm currently sending my ms to literary agents. Good luck everyone, and keep going. You've achieved lots already.
Moby Dick is a great book but so slow paced that it took me eight years to finish. Another book was really bad, but was easy to read due to good pacing.
Moby Dick just is a terrible book. Way overrated. It's extremely poorly written and unbelievably self-indulgent. One of these books whose main purpose is to torture students at school and to make them detest reading.
My philosophy is that, when I find it boring to write, I assume it will be boring for the reader to read. I wrote only one science fiction novel. In it, I had to do a lot of world-building. So, I rationed it. Each chapter, in the first third of the book, had some world-building in it.
The readers' concern for standard, fast and accelerating pace is somewhat culture specific. In Asia, people are okay with slow scenes where nothing is happening. I think it's almost expected that not much will happen in the first couple of chapters. I am reminded of the Ozu films that really take their time. In some Kenzaburo Oe novels there's nothing happening for pages on end. Sometimes what seems an irrelevant flashback or an overly long diary entry will be seen as crucial much later. I am reminded of a scene in Seicho Matsumoto's Points and Lines where the detective reads a seemingly irrelevant literary essay and, while it doesn't provide any direct clues, it does set the stage for the revelation in the end. Which curiously is only explained as an epilogue. It is also not uncommon to have, in Japan at least, that something crucial happens right in the middle or even closer to the end. So often the second half of a book or a film are dramatically different from the first half. It's not just the mood or pace, sometimes what starts as a quiet, slow family drama descends into an absurdist comedy. Or into an action thriller, sort of. This is very common for novels or films that are adapted from manga or anime series, so people are accustomed to these rapid tonal shifts. "Happy Ever After" for instance. Even the more recent Korean movie Parasite has this element. I observed similar elements in some Thai horror and comedy as well. In the West such uneven pacing and tonal shifts would be jarring and perhaps unpublishable or unfilmable, but I think in Asia this is natural and okay.
Thank you for your insight into the 5 steps of pacing a novel. Certain points you highlighted I was already doing although I did not know the proper terminology of pacing. However, the biggest thing for me that poses a challenge is the "Dénouement Period' the closing end of the story. That was new for me which naturally will raise awareness to my novel because I still have ways to go in completing my story. I will keep that last point in mind. Wow, the education is always good. As always, thank you for your insight in pacing an effective story.
"I like the story to turn every 4-6 pages" -- Ken Follett. It seems like in epic fantasy, readers like it slow, with a lot of worldbuilding and pov's, despite an exciting prologue.
I have tried to write a tv script and friends have said it would be a good book, which I have now completed. The two styles of story telling are so different but the tips and advice given by you are helpful - thanks
As always your advice is spot on!!! I'm almost done with revising my Odessa story..then I'll hit that YA thriller I was telling you about 🎉❤ Thanks for all the efforts and love you put into these useful and no nonsense tips!! And always so encouraging.🤗🥳
For my inciting incidents, I cut the conventional wisdom in half. So I begin my inciting incidents around the 5-7 percent mark, instead of the 10-15 percent mark.
I'm totally pro- denoument ( however you spell it) . I loved the end of Light of The Midnight Stars by Rena Rossner. I was like YES, finally, a proper ending
How many words is ok per scene, if you trim what you can? If you don't mind me asking. I found most of my chapters are short in this dual pov book. I'm only at skeletal first draft stage though
I rather agree with the story structure that says the inciting incident should come in 10-15% of the way into the story. I feel the pacing is too fast when it comes in before I have first been intrigued by the hook, the setting, some breadcrumbs (smaller hooks) and the status quo. I like that about the first Harry Potter series (the Dursley’s attitude about Petunia’s sister and her family, weird things happening the day Harry is delivered to the Dursleys, mention of “our world”, Harry’s hair grows back immediately, he is on the roof of the house, the incident at the zoo, the Dursley’s reactions and the Hunger Games (it is a bit before she volunteers as tribute. We have the breadcrumbs of the mention of a day of reaping in the first paragraph that naturally causes bad dreams, these people seem to be in dystopian conditions we learn through the breadcrumbs. Then we learn about the Hunger Games. Then the inciting incident of the volunteer as tribute.).
I think there's no consensus about what is that first interesting bit...call it a hook or inciting incident. I tend to think if the inciting incident coming later too. But it's hard to know what counts as the inciting incident. My MC meets a monster which I'm calling an inciting incident, but the hook in first five pages is when she gets injured and ends up in hospital.... I think in the end, so long as you've hooked the reader and keep hooking them it doesn't matter what we call it.
The link doesn't work. I've input 2 of my email addresses several times and nothing happens. I don't get the form, I don't even get subscribed to the newsletter. Every time I click snag the quiz, it open again the same page, that says snag the quiz. And I was subscribed to 3 other newsletters I wasn't interested in.
One habit I'm trying to break is having too much detail in scenes that should be summarized. Instead of going from one scene to the next, I get caught in the boring, inconsequential in-between. Thanks for this pacing video, it helps!
Hey Alyssa, just wanted to thank you so much for all the advice in getting published. My first book is out this Friday, 1st March, and your videos have been instrumental to me on my journey. I've added your name in the acknowledgement section of my book, I hope this is OK. All the best and keep up the amazing work. - Wesley North
AMA Wednesday I'm in the middle of the second draft of my novel and I would say I have an extremely clear idea of what my book is going to turn out as, that is all four acts of my novel, it's endings, it's themes, etc and I'm formulating ideas about the sequel (I had to split the book into two, the sequel was what would be the second part of my og book.) So out of the blue I decided looking for comp titles incase I wanted to go the traditional publishing route. Problem is I can not find any novel, especially those published in the last five years that aren't stupendously popular or completely unknown, that can I realistically use as a comp book. From my understanding, Comp books are books that have similar target audiences. It's not like I'm writing in a niche genre or my ideas are niche aswell. The book I'm writing is a Sci fi thriller with it's main premise being that it's MHA (In that a large portion of the population has developed some kind of superpower) but much more dark, grounded, and focused way more on the political situation of how the world changed because of the rise of superpowered humans than MHA was. The plot of the book is also about a radical far right terrorist indoctrinating the protagonist to join him and help cause a state of instability and chaos from which he plans on using to overthrown the U.S government. It has dueling perspectives (One the main character and second the deuteragonist/Main villain of the story), and it's meant to be a thematic exploration of how people, especially young men, fall to extremism. Now my main question (Or two it would be) is 1. What should you do if you can not find a good comp title for your book and 2. what would be the average reaction from an agent if you were to use a something outside of the literary world (I.E Movies, Comics, Manga, Graphic novels) as comps? (I have a feeling it should be accepted because realistically their should be an overlap in audience in say something like Watchman, and MHA and my book.)
It would be great if you could link or post the title for the scenes video you mention. I went back a decent amount in your videos and found no titles or thumbnails that hinted at the content you mentioned except for another pacing video. Unless they were included in the "More Writing & Publishing Advice" section of the description?
Hi there - is this the video you're looking for? th-cam.com/video/oD-tYgBHKbw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G5Xy0gczzd3i-GoY I do try to include all of the videos I mention in the description under "More Writing & Publishing Advice"!
I have something major happen in the second chapter, but it actually isn't the inciting incident. I'm hoping it'll be enough to hold the reader's attention for just a few more chapters.
So much focus on the plot. Plot, plot, plot, plot, plot. Plot moment, overarching plot, plot action, plot development, plot feeling swift. You also didn't say the proper way to do time skips. For example: "It had been two weeks since Jack's dog ran away, but it wasn't until he met with Jimmy that he realized that something had been strange about it all. True, the dog had barked while running, but she had also shot laser beams from her eyes. Come to think of it, Jack had found the dog to have become a bit heavier and her footsteps to send off electromagnetic tremors, but he had figured that it was just his grandma's apple pie that he had fed her in secret. 'What, she was a robot??!' Jack asked Jimmy, shocked." Dunno why you use such obviously bad examples.
This is actually the first time I've heard an English-speaker pronounce 'denouement' correctly. Anyways, thanks, Alyssa. Very informative as always.
My inciting incident begins in the first line, and also happens to be my hook. I'm currently sending my ms to literary agents. Good luck everyone, and keep going. You've achieved lots already.
Hey! Me too. The first words are my incident.
Ah see, THIS is what I wanted from Alyssa’s channel. This is a long overdue topic. Very good.
Moby Dick is a great book but so slow paced that it took me eight years to finish. Another book was really bad, but was easy to read due to good pacing.
Moby Dick just is a terrible book. Way overrated. It's extremely poorly written and unbelievably self-indulgent. One of these books whose main purpose is to torture students at school and to make them detest reading.
I disagree.
My philosophy is that, when I find it boring to write, I assume it will be boring for the reader to read.
I wrote only one science fiction novel. In it, I had to do a lot of world-building. So, I rationed it. Each chapter, in the first third of the book, had some world-building in it.
The readers' concern for standard, fast and accelerating pace is somewhat culture specific. In Asia, people are okay with slow scenes where nothing is happening. I think it's almost expected that not much will happen in the first couple of chapters. I am reminded of the Ozu films that really take their time. In some Kenzaburo Oe novels there's nothing happening for pages on end. Sometimes what seems an irrelevant flashback or an overly long diary entry will be seen as crucial much later. I am reminded of a scene in Seicho Matsumoto's Points and Lines where the detective reads a seemingly irrelevant literary essay and, while it doesn't provide any direct clues, it does set the stage for the revelation in the end. Which curiously is only explained as an epilogue.
It is also not uncommon to have, in Japan at least, that something crucial happens right in the middle or even closer to the end. So often the second half of a book or a film are dramatically different from the first half. It's not just the mood or pace, sometimes what starts as a quiet, slow family drama descends into an absurdist comedy. Or into an action thriller, sort of. This is very common for novels or films that are adapted from manga or anime series, so people are accustomed to these rapid tonal shifts. "Happy Ever After" for instance. Even the more recent Korean movie Parasite has this element. I observed similar elements in some Thai horror and comedy as well.
In the West such uneven pacing and tonal shifts would be jarring and perhaps unpublishable or unfilmable, but I think in Asia this is natural and okay.
Thank you for your insight into the 5 steps of pacing a novel. Certain points you highlighted I was already doing although I did not know the proper terminology of pacing. However, the biggest thing for me that poses a challenge is the "Dénouement Period' the closing end of the story. That was new for me which naturally will raise awareness to my novel because I still have ways to go in completing my story. I will keep that last point in mind. Wow, the education is always good. As always, thank you for your insight in pacing an effective story.
"I like the story to turn every 4-6 pages" -- Ken Follett. It seems like in epic fantasy, readers like it slow, with a lot of worldbuilding and pov's, despite an exciting prologue.
This is SUCH valuable advice!
Thank you for dispensing your wisdom. I am constantly astonished at the high level of assistance you provide.
Great information about pacing! I definitely took away a couple of tips to use for my next story!
I'm so glad! Thanks for commenting!
Super helpful, thanks
Ngā mihi nui, from Aotearoa-New Zealand 🇳🇿 ❤
I have tried to write a tv script and friends have said it would be a good book, which I have now completed. The two styles of story telling are so different but the tips and advice given by you are helpful - thanks
This answers SO many questions I have about my current WIP revisions. Thank you ❤❤❤
You're so welcome! I'm glad to hear it helped!
As always your advice is spot on!!! I'm almost done with revising my Odessa story..then I'll hit that YA thriller I was telling you about 🎉❤ Thanks for all the efforts and love you put into these useful and no nonsense tips!! And always so encouraging.🤗🥳
For my inciting incidents, I cut the conventional wisdom in half. So I begin my inciting incidents around the 5-7 percent mark, instead of the 10-15 percent mark.
I'm totally pro- denoument ( however you spell it) . I loved the end of Light of The Midnight Stars by Rena Rossner. I was like YES, finally, a proper ending
Excellent advice, very helpful
Glad you found it helpful! Thanks for commenting!
How many words is ok per scene, if you trim what you can? If you don't mind me asking. I found most of my chapters are short in this dual pov book. I'm only at skeletal first draft stage though
You are so wi😊😊😊❤❤❤
Great video as always, Alyssa! Though, you seem to have made "inconsequential" two words in your title card at 7:11 😅
Does the Inciting Incident always have to be about the main character?
My best guess would be that since it has to push the main character into the story, it should directly affect the main character in a profound way.
@@JustClaude13 Thank you for answering. I appreciate it.
I rather agree with the story structure that says the inciting incident should come in 10-15% of the way into the story. I feel the pacing is too fast when it comes in before I have first been intrigued by the hook, the setting, some breadcrumbs (smaller hooks) and the status quo. I like that about the first Harry Potter series (the Dursley’s attitude about Petunia’s sister and her family, weird things happening the day Harry is delivered to the Dursleys, mention of “our world”, Harry’s hair grows back immediately, he is on the roof of the house, the incident at the zoo, the Dursley’s reactions and the Hunger Games (it is a bit before she volunteers as tribute. We have the breadcrumbs of the mention of a day of reaping in the first paragraph that naturally causes bad dreams, these people seem to be in dystopian conditions we learn through the breadcrumbs. Then we learn about the Hunger Games. Then the inciting incident of the volunteer as tribute.).
I think there's no consensus about what is that first interesting bit...call it a hook or inciting incident.
I tend to think if the inciting incident coming later too.
But it's hard to know what counts as the inciting incident.
My MC meets a monster which I'm calling an inciting incident, but the hook in first five pages is when she gets injured and ends up in hospital....
I think in the end, so long as you've hooked the reader and keep hooking them it doesn't matter what we call it.
Alyssa with the perfect timing? I'm completely hung up on this in my manuscript planning right now.
Should an agent be close enough to met in person, or does the internet make that redundant these days?
The link doesn't work. I've input 2 of my email addresses several times and nothing happens. I don't get the form, I don't even get subscribed to the newsletter. Every time I click snag the quiz, it open again the same page, that says snag the quiz. And I was subscribed to 3 other newsletters I wasn't interested in.
Hi there - please send me an email at hello@alyssamatesic.com and I will get the story self-assessment to you!
One habit I'm trying to break is having too much detail in scenes that should be summarized. Instead of going from one scene to the next, I get caught in the boring, inconsequential in-between. Thanks for this pacing video, it helps!
So glad you found it helpful! Thanks for commenting!
Thank you for this information.
Thank you for this ^-^
Hey Alyssa, just wanted to thank you so much for all the advice in getting published.
My first book is out this Friday, 1st March, and your videos have been instrumental to me on my journey. I've added your name in the acknowledgement section of my book, I hope this is OK.
All the best and keep up the amazing work.
- Wesley North
AMA Wednesday
I'm in the middle of the second draft of my novel and I would say I have an extremely clear idea of what my book is going to turn out as, that is all four acts of my novel, it's endings, it's themes, etc and I'm formulating ideas about the sequel (I had to split the book into two, the sequel was what would be the second part of my og book.) So out of the blue I decided looking for comp titles incase I wanted to go the traditional publishing route. Problem is I can not find any novel, especially those published in the last five years that aren't stupendously popular or completely unknown, that can I realistically use as a comp book. From my understanding, Comp books are books that have similar target audiences.
It's not like I'm writing in a niche genre or my ideas are niche aswell. The book I'm writing is a Sci fi thriller with it's main premise being that it's MHA (In that a large portion of the population has developed some kind of superpower) but much more dark, grounded, and focused way more on the political situation of how the world changed because of the rise of superpowered humans than MHA was. The plot of the book is also about a radical far right terrorist indoctrinating the protagonist to join him and help cause a state of instability and chaos from which he plans on using to overthrown the U.S government. It has dueling perspectives (One the main character and second the deuteragonist/Main villain of the story), and it's meant to be a thematic exploration of how people, especially young men, fall to extremism.
Now my main question (Or two it would be) is 1. What should you do if you can not find a good comp title for your book and 2. what would be the average reaction from an agent if you were to use a something outside of the literary world (I.E Movies, Comics, Manga, Graphic novels) as comps? (I have a feeling it should be accepted because realistically their should be an overlap in audience in say something like Watchman, and MHA and my book.)
Damn, first time watching your channel and I get called out for my saggy middle! I have been eating better, I promise.
It would be great if you could link or post the title for the scenes video you mention. I went back a decent amount in your videos and found no titles or thumbnails that hinted at the content you mentioned except for another pacing video. Unless they were included in the "More Writing & Publishing Advice" section of the description?
Hi there - is this the video you're looking for? th-cam.com/video/oD-tYgBHKbw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G5Xy0gczzd3i-GoY I do try to include all of the videos I mention in the description under "More Writing & Publishing Advice"!
@@AlyssaMatesic- Ah ok, yes it is. I pulled it up earlier but wasn't sure. And thank you for replying, and for all you do here.
I have something major happen in the second chapter, but it actually isn't the inciting incident. I'm hoping it'll be enough to hold the reader's attention for just a few more chapters.
Thank you for another free lesson Alyssa. This reminds me why I love this channel.
This video made me change my work-in-drafting to create a better denouement.
Haha. I love the sloth video. Great video, Alyssa.
A great video. Insightful, encouraging, and helpful. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for commenting :)
So much focus on the plot. Plot, plot, plot, plot, plot. Plot moment, overarching plot, plot action, plot development, plot feeling swift. You also didn't say the proper way to do time skips. For example: "It had been two weeks since Jack's dog ran away, but it wasn't until he met with Jimmy that he realized that something had been strange about it all. True, the dog had barked while running, but she had also shot laser beams from her eyes. Come to think of it, Jack had found the dog to have become a bit heavier and her footsteps to send off electromagnetic tremors, but he had figured that it was just his grandma's apple pie that he had fed her in secret. 'What, she was a robot??!' Jack asked Jimmy, shocked." Dunno why you use such obviously bad examples.