Would Michael Jordan Have Won 8 STRAIGHT If He Never Retired?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @jonnyarnett
    @jonnyarnett  4 ปีที่แล้ว +346

    How many championships do the Bulls win if MJ doesn’t retire in 93?
    Small error: Jordan averaged 26.9 points in the 95 regular season, although the text says 26.1. My bad.

    • @jaydentimestwo5350
      @jaydentimestwo5350 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      10

    • @ryanpowers3155
      @ryanpowers3155 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      if he didnt retire he would have lost in 1998 and in another year injuries fatigue motivation and the best teams he would of had to face in his whole career if he didnt retire its almost impossible he could win 8 and rlly unlikely he wins 7 he would have won 5 or 6 plus the fact that he almost got season ending injuries twice but was lucky and with that many games i think its very likely he would of missed a playoffs from injuries and his team mates might be injuierd like lebrons in 2015 its basically impossible he wins 8 plus in 1994 he did lose in 6 games soo idk how you can say mj wins 8

    • @allsystemsgo8678
      @allsystemsgo8678 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      They wouldn't have won eight straight, lol. No one could put up with the physical and emotional toll. No one in any sport has even won four since the islanders in the early 80's.

    • @shadowmyth123
      @shadowmyth123 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I believe the Bulls would have split the 1994 and 1995 Finals against the Rockets. Two seven game series it would have been.

    • @elijah_coursey_84
      @elijah_coursey_84 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      It's a tough call. I say at least 5 or 6, but maybe more. He had different teammates (besides Pippen) on both 3 peats, so even if they win in 1994 and 1995, he may not end up with 8. Another question is if the Bulls beat the Rockets in 1994, do the Rockets make the Finals in 1995? We cannot assume that all the same teams make the Finals the same years. So it could open the door for 7 or 8 titles. Either way, it is one of the most interesting what ifs in NBA history. I agree that Michael Jordan is still the G.O.A.T. with 6 rings in 8 years and all his other accolades. Another great video from my favorite NBA youtuber.

  • @VFXPlug17
    @VFXPlug17 4 ปีที่แล้ว +996

    We’ll never know, but coming from a rockets fan, I’m glad he didn’t play...........

    • @anhell32
      @anhell32 4 ปีที่แล้ว +72

      Man those rockets were great too ....is a 50 50 fighr for me

    • @TheRaidernation33
      @TheRaidernation33 4 ปีที่แล้ว +71

      Yeah that would have been a great finals Hakeem and MJ I would give the slight edge to Bulls but then again Rockets were hungry

    • @arizonaFIREent
      @arizonaFIREent 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Houston would of beat Chicago

    • @tomc2491
      @tomc2491 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@arizonaFIREent how so?

    • @georgem3673
      @georgem3673 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Jordan was back in '95, but Orlando beat them in the playoffs.

  • @dameschemin8464
    @dameschemin8464 3 ปีที่แล้ว +237

    I doubt he’d win 8 straight, mostly because of mental fatigue is inevitable. Still, the fact he won 3 straight rings, retired, played a different sport, came back, and won 3 straight rings again (FMVP in all of them) and dipped out is the most impressive thing I’ve seen in sports

    • @m17-04
      @m17-04 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Mj is the goat

    • @snerdterguson
      @snerdterguson 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Even after he dipped out and decided to come back with the Wizards, he had back to back games with 51 and 46 and at the age of 40 played 82 games.

    • @extremeking425
      @extremeking425 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      you dont fucking know that...

    • @reimixo
      @reimixo ปีที่แล้ว

      Jordan is just on another level, nobody comes close... 6-0 6fmvps, 10 scoring titles, 5mvps, dpoy... Kareem has 6 rings but only 2fmvp, 6mvps but One with a loosing Record, to me LeBron is the closest, 4-4-4, dominated the east for a decade almost, All time leader in points, gonna retire 4th in assists, and of the greats had the worst teams, Magic kareem played together with worthy Cooper Scott nixon mcadoo Thompson Wilkes.... Bird DJ parish walton ainge mchale.... Kobe and shaq, Duncan had Manu Parker Robinson kawhi pop as a coach... Russell had All the help lol Wilt west goodrich Baylor... NR 2 atleast in MP regular season and combined, NR 1 in playoffs minutes and games, atleast top 4 in regular season games, top 3 or maybe even 1 on combined games, most seasons played probably... And this dude is 38 in y20 AVG 28/8/6.5+-.... He is NR 2 in my book

    • @smoothoperator3739
      @smoothoperator3739 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Jordan never had mental fatigue ONLY a competitive mindset, NO he definitely would had won 8 straight. There's also no guarantee it would had been the Rockets either in the finals. With Jordan never gone, Rockets might had also lost more games causing them to not rank high in the west and possibly beaten by a different team in the West especially their 94-95 Season being a 6th seed. Jordan may had ruined their record to not even make the playoffs

  • @lhart99
    @lhart99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +375

    I would have LOVED to have seen a Bulls vs Rockets Finals match up with a non retired MJ. All we can do is speculate, but it would have been one hell of a series. :-)

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      I have it at 50/50. If any team from the West was gonna beat the Bulls, it was Houston. The Bulls had no answer for Hakeem on either end of the floor, plus he had good perimeter shooters to support him. That would've been an awesome series to watch. I think it would go the full 7 games, with the winner being the team that made the least mistakes down the stretch. Sorry that that sounds cliche....lol

    • @Ninjersey1
      @Ninjersey1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Houston went 7 with the knicks game 7 in overtime.I think the bulls win.

    • @Ninjersey1
      @Ninjersey1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Especially that first year the rockets didn’t have Clyde Drexler

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@Ninjersey1 The Knocks had a quality center to match up against Hakeem. The Bulls didn't. A Bulls team with Jordan will have a hard time. A Bulls team without Jordan doesn't stand a chance.

    • @oldschoolhiphop2275
      @oldschoolhiphop2275 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Jordan damn near single handedly beat the Knicks by himself every season. The Knicks were more physical than the Rockets. Oakley, & Mason where big physical guys. Along with John Starks & Ewing. If the Bulls could find a way to disrupt Hakeem & pressure him the rest of the Rockets were too soft in comparison to the Knicks. The Rockets supporting cast was good but not as big & physical as NY. I believe Jordan ,& Scottie carries the defensive load with Hakeem & try to contain him. Jordan & Scottie won't allow Hakeem to match up 1 on 1. They take their chances with the rest of the Rockets trying to win down the stretch in critical game decisions. The The Rockets didnt have the same experience they just had the talent. Chicago had 3 previous championships. Jordan Scottie they would spread Houston out on offense with Kukoc help running the floor . Chicago had Luke Longley, Will Purdue, Bill Wennington all 7 footers to disrupt the lane & get defensive rebounds. Although they were no match for Hakeem they would make a difference in the paint. The Bulls 7 footers could aggravate Hakeem with their size & jam up the paint. It wouldn't have been easy for Houston.

  • @sweetfx5706
    @sweetfx5706 4 ปีที่แล้ว +713

    imagine averaging 31, 7 and 6 and being called "rusty"

    • @IllShivyou
      @IllShivyou 4 ปีที่แล้ว +72

      Rusty for Michael

    • @bernarddelossantos8083
      @bernarddelossantos8083 4 ปีที่แล้ว +96

      that's on MJ standards lol

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Orlando beat Jordan and Chicagos asses fair n square in 95. They wouldnt have won it all even if he was there all season

    • @gunny-lneck4352
      @gunny-lneck4352 4 ปีที่แล้ว +121

      @@FuShengAlex 😭😭😭yet the bulls steam rolled them the next season ok buddy

    • @Aknight292
      @Aknight292 4 ปีที่แล้ว +71

      @@FuShengAlex the bulls swept that same team the next season

  • @davidmartinez52420
    @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    Big Jordan fan here. He's the GOAT to me, hands down. With that said, I don't think they would've won 8 straight for a few different reasons:
    1) It would've been hard to keep most of the core together for that long due to free agency. Some of the better role players would've likely been offered star money from other teams.
    2) The roster for the 2nd 3 peat may not have formed like we know it did if Jordan had never retired. They were building that team around Pippen at the time, so it's reasonable to think that some of them(hard to say who for sure) wouldn't have come to the Bulls if Jordan had never retired.
    3) If any team from the Western Conference had a chance to beat Jordan's Bulls, it was Olajuwan and the Houston Rockets. He would've had his way on both ends and would've made it extremely difficult for the Bulls to win. Plus he had good outside shooting to support his down low dominance. I give it a 50/50 chance that the Bulls would've beat Houston in '94, and maybe 30/70 in '95 after Houston acquired Clyde Drexler.

    • @tdvu
      @tdvu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      It's no surprise Jordan chose Hakeem to be in his dream starting 5.

    • @grantl7062
      @grantl7062 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Smartest take here

    • @Jamedia66
      @Jamedia66 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      david martinez Good take. I see as a 50/50 also. I grew up a Rockets fan of the 80’s and 90’s and I can tell you how resilient a group they were. Were they as all around talented as the Bulls? No, but they had a nucleus, chemistry, and a very special will to not die that many weren’t able to witness. That was a very special group and you have to consider who they played against day in and day out during that time. The Sonics, Suns, Spurs, Jazz, and Blazers were unbelievable teams and they actually had their way with Chicago in their reg season head to heads. I think it was a record of around 11-3 during a 6 year span, which is down right remarkable. Those Rockets were so often ignored by the main stream media outlets too, because Hakeem didn’t have a big brand shoe contract and didn’t represent the American culture that they were all on board for, though he absolutely dominated guys like Karl Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Morning, Shaq, Kemp, Robinson, and so on. If you look at the Rockets record against these powerhouse playoff teams from the West and those they faced from the East, over the years, it’s just incredible how high the win percentage was. Olajuwon had the same mental fortitude that Jordan did, in his insatiable desire to compete and win at all costs, and he was even more regarded as a leader of men in the way that he made his supporting staff poor their hearts out completely for him. With all this being said, I like your 50/50 because it’s a fair assessment, but that 94 season was a moot point of exhaustion and overwhelming stress for MJ, while Hakeem was having one of the greatest 2 year stretches of any player in the history of the game. I’m going to stick with that Houston pulls out the victory over Chicago though, if they had met that year. When watching “The Last Dance” MJ openly expresses that he was very beatable by great teams if he wasn’t 100% in passionate go mode, and be that the case with him being emotionally drained, he would have faced a team with the greatest big of the modern era during the pinnacle of his prime. He’s also stated several times how Hakeem was the one player he crossed his fingers to not have to face out of the West in his championship seasons, whereas every other superstar that he did face(Drexler, Jabar, Malone, Barkley, and Kemp), were all dominated over their careers by Hakeem so it would have been a completely different monster. The Rockets supporting staff was a group of perfectly fit complements to Hakeems skill set also, so don’t seek them short, and Vernon Maxwell was the leagues best defender of Jordan over the years as well. Take the 96 or 92 Bulls teams, and then it would have been a much tougher feat for the Rockets to overcome...

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Jamedia66 Even emotionally drained, Jordan still would've fought tooth and nail. I'm sure becoming the first time since the Celtics to win 4 straight would've been the perfect motivation. The simple fact Jordan is on that team is why I can't 100% count them out even if there more factors going against them than there were that favored them. That's why I settled on 50/50 because it is basically a coin flip. I love Hakeem and he's in my top 10 all time and is the 2nd best center all time right behind Kareem. The sad thing though is he's not in a lot of people's top 10, so he kinda falls in the underrated category. I don't think people really understand how good he was. He didn't start playing basketball at all until he was 16 or 17. He played soccer, that's why he had amazing footwork for a center. He was so good that not a soul on Earth has ever criticized Houston for taking him ahead of Michael Jordan. No one. The Bulls notoriously struggled against teams that had both a big time center and good perimeter shooting, both of which Houston had. Robert Horry, Kenny Smith, and Mario Elie were all good outside shooters. Even Hakeem hit 8 of the 19 3s he took in '93-'94. It's really too hard to say for sure, but as I said if any team back then was gonna beat Chicago it would've been Hakeem and the Rockets.

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Jamedia66 One thing's for sure.......I totally wish that series could've happened

  • @jamesdesch3201
    @jamesdesch3201 4 ปีที่แล้ว +352

    I wouldn't bet against MJ. A healthy and motivated MJ is tough to beat. Motivation wouldn't be a problem... When MJ trotted on the court, he was all business. This coming from a Larry Bird fan.

    • @allsystemsgo8678
      @allsystemsgo8678 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Um part of the reason he retired was because of motivation after the first three peat. Regardless, it's ridiculous to think either him or Scottie don't get a significant injury for eight straight years and miss playoff games.

    • @jamesdesch3201
      @jamesdesch3201 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@allsystemsgo8678 I get it! Good point -- MJ's central reason for retirement. All I'm saying is if MJ shows up he's not going to give half measures in terms of motivation -- he will be true to himself, ergo he walked away for a bit. In terms of injury, you never know what can happen. Good possibility MJ would have some troubles. It's no slam dunk MJ wins eight in a row, and to think otherwise is reductive. Personally I think MJ would have worn down if he didn't retire, but if MJ shows up during that time he would be hard to bet against. During Bird's era I would bet against him.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@allsystemsgo8678 You are correct, a big part of the reason Michael Jordan left was because of losing motivation, he also knew in his head that there was no one in the nba that can beat him, yes there were other major factors around the reason he left, like his dad being killed, but for a psychotic competitor like Jordan, competition and motivation are extremely major factors for him wanting or not wanting to compete against other players in basketball

    • @MrMuaythai84
      @MrMuaythai84 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      when i go to the bathroom i am all bussiness

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      No matter how motivated he was or wasn't....Hakeem was his daddy. And in losing to Orlando who Houston swept 0 chance at 8peating because of that.
      Faxx!

  • @derekbroekhoven5498
    @derekbroekhoven5498 4 ปีที่แล้ว +90

    You know, just the fact that it's even possible that Hakeem could've beat the Jordan Bulls in the finals with no other all-stars just speaks to Hakeem's greatness

    • @sonnymp1337
      @sonnymp1337 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      You guys talking like hakeem just played the 2 seasons while jordan was out. Where was hakeem since 84? Where was he?

    • @resurrectedpa
      @resurrectedpa 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@sonnymp1337 he made it to the Finals with Ralph Sampson before Jordan did lol while going up against the 80s Lakers and Celtics. Also, the West is really fucking good and Hakeem had barely any help for a deep playoff run in the early 90s.

    • @MJIZZEL
      @MJIZZEL 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Look at it like this. That 93-94 bulls team without Michael Jordan took the Knicks to 7 games that year. Those same Knicks took the Rockets to 7 games and almost won't a ring. Add a not rusty Jordan to that Bulls team and I doubt that Knicks series goes to 7 and if that same Knicks team gave Houston that much trouble then what would q Jordan led bulls team have done.
      94-95 would've been a much tougher matchup without Ho Grant!
      If he stayed and Jordan is still in basketball shape then it's a great series.
      Houston swept the same magic team that year that the Bulks swept the next season.

    • @cuongquoc5877
      @cuongquoc5877 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sonnymp1337 Hakeem has less help than MJ and dude wasnt into religion up until the 90s. The West was much harder than the East in the 90s tho

    • @HectorConCarne23
      @HectorConCarne23 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sonnymp1337 same way you Jordan fan girls act like Jordan only played in the 90s with the whole I would never bet against him in the playoffs but the guys was getting blanked in the first round in the 80ds and wasn’t winning anything but individual awards in the 80s

  • @dr.corneliusq.cadbury6984
    @dr.corneliusq.cadbury6984 4 ปีที่แล้ว +226

    Ron Harper was another key piece to the second three peat team, especially on defense. Harper, Jordan, and Pippen have to be the best group of perimeter defenders ever assembled. Harper usually guarded the point position and defended well against Payton and Stockton. Toni Kukuc coming in with the scoring punch off the bench was another key piece.

    • @sex6cult9revolution
      @sex6cult9revolution 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      So true. That team was so deep.
      If an injury cut Jordan's minutes by 5-10 minutes per game, I believe it's still possible they could have won. They would just have had to rely on Harper, Kukoc and Steve Kerr more and I think all three could have risen to the challenge and put up, while not the same numbers as Jordan, still the numbers of a winning team.

    • @pinkney928
      @pinkney928 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are so right bulls win 8

    • @nathansalinas1669
      @nathansalinas1669 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      This is why the Warriors would have had a difficult time against the bulls. Pippen and Rodman could rotate against KD, Harper and MJ guarding Steph and Klay. People forget how suffocating that defense was.

    • @daneosborn3476
      @daneosborn3476 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@nathansalinas1669 absolutely. The bulls were built to defend anything on the court. As far as physically gifted people ,mj, pippen and rodman are 3 of the most physically gifted athletes assembled on one team. They were versatile on who they could guard. Rodman though highly rated as a defender is still underrated because because i dont believe anyone thats ever played the game could guard as many different type of player.

    • @somregularguy
      @somregularguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Dr. Cornelius Q. Cadbury that’s not true at all, their last championship in 98 was a miracle that I commend Jordan for being able to pull off, it was clear that if they stayed together they where done, there’s a reason why everyone tapped out at the same time, big dominant big men is where they’re weakness was and when you realize that every championship from 1990-2000 that wasn’t won by Jordan was won by teams that had their big men win FMVP like Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan and it would’ve especially been overkill with the fact of the spurs “twin towers” I think Jordan is the goat and everything but you have to realize his 6-0 record had to do a lot with being at the right place and right time

  • @mingw2304
    @mingw2304 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    God I would LOVED to have seen that Bulls/Rockets Finals

  • @Mattulaak
    @Mattulaak 4 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    I recently found your channel and I quite like it. I especially love that you don't peddle the bullshit a lot of NBA fans and 'analysts' do.

    • @jonnyarnett
      @jonnyarnett  4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Thanks friend, I appreciate you supporting the channel more than you know, seriously.

  • @awesomereviews1561
    @awesomereviews1561 4 ปีที่แล้ว +137

    Horace Grant is so underrated. Amazing player. Barkley also said that Grant was better than Rodman because of his versatility and reliability. Rodman was a better defender and rebounder though. Either way both Grant and Rodman are great.

    • @ja8ames
      @ja8ames 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Grant did make a great last-second defensive play in 1993, blocking Kevin Johnson.

    • @Rodzilla97
      @Rodzilla97 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@ja8ames true, and KJ is likely to make that shot otherwise. huge play by Grant

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      It depends on who you're talking to when it comes to whether Horace Grant is underrated or not. I watched those Bulls 3peat teams. Grant was absolutely a vital piece for them. He was a good player, but he was no star player. He fit the system well, but was no star player. I think there's a certain group of fans that actually try to overrate Horace simply because doing so makes a better case for their guy. I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about...lol

    • @nathansalinas1669
      @nathansalinas1669 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      he's overrated and underrated. He's a solid rotation guy but all he could really do was hit the mid range j

    • @davidmartinez52420
      @davidmartinez52420 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nathansalinas1669 He was a good rebounder as well, especially on the offensive end. He was also a solid defender down low.

  • @thedjyoyo6136
    @thedjyoyo6136 4 ปีที่แล้ว +54

    I agree 100% with this, and also there’s an interview of Michael Jordan where he says that at the championship in 93 he didn’t felt the same hunger to go once again to fight for the top, he felt like people already expected them to win so it wasn’t fun or challenging anymore, but when he came back from retirement all that hunger and passion for winning were back, so I guess if Jordan doesn’t retire maybe he and the bulls would have lost their motivation to win

    • @TheRaidernation33
      @TheRaidernation33 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      YOVANI JOSUE SEANEZ CHAVEZ your right he did say that at his retirement interview, he also lost his dad which is a big reason why his love and joy of the game was lost

    • @louiejordan6933
      @louiejordan6933 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree. Everything happened the way it should have.

    • @Budd631
      @Budd631 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      YOVANI JOSUE SEANEZ CHAVEZ he was caught gambling and owed the Gods something and was told to step down. The official narrative is a farce

  • @aramsarkisyan8061
    @aramsarkisyan8061 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    An important factor not brought up is the statistics of Bulls vs Rockets games from '90-'91 to '92-' 93 seasons. Rockets won 5 ot of 6 games during that period. Rockets were the worst match-up for Bulls back in those days, so it would be really tough for them to win finals in 94 and 95 against Hoiston.

    • @kingpete3160
      @kingpete3160 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You can’t count that because playoffs bulls a different team

    • @crystalizedExposed
      @crystalizedExposed 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@kingpete3160 true, but rim protection and opposing centers were the biggest weaknesses in the bulls dynasty. even in 1996, shaq still had a good series, just others couldn't step up. 1992, they got taken to 7 by Ewing's knicks. add on to that the added fatigue, even if the bulls could have 4 or 5 peated, he would have lost maybe in the later 90's just because of fatigue. In the last dance they talk about him and the team being worn down from 3 in a row, now imagine 7 and trying to make it 8 while having to go against the jazz and indiana.

    • @kingpete3160
      @kingpete3160 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@crystalizedExposed Yeah that’s true

  • @houstonburnside8985
    @houstonburnside8985 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    The fact people think he could do it is just a testament to his greatness.

  • @golddiaries9196
    @golddiaries9196 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The meticulousness with which u do your analysis is serious. You’re truly gifted Arnett

    • @jonnyarnett
      @jonnyarnett  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks Rich :) I appreciate that

  • @big8dog887
    @big8dog887 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Jordan loved motivating himself with perceived slights, Barkley and Malone winning MVP, for example. He would have loved to play in the finals against the guy that was drafted #1 while he went #3.

    • @Coldass
      @Coldass ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Never once have I considered that fact in all the hypothetical scenarios of a bulls/rockets matchup

    • @Muttal9348
      @Muttal9348 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @lajuan3474how does it not mean anything, jordan is the biggest dog in nba history, if something was personal he would make it known in his play

  • @averyce2
    @averyce2 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great points with Horace vs Dennis. But let's not forget the impact of Ron Harper filling the guard position!!

  • @tsahicarmona5877
    @tsahicarmona5877 4 ปีที่แล้ว +187

    OMG! MJ was playing baseball for a season and half, when returned, still rusty, he averaged like Miami Heat's Lebron!!! There's no question he could have won 8.

    • @nathansalinas1669
      @nathansalinas1669 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @ettie cohen Hakeem's team beat the Bulls pretty easily in almost all regular season matchups. MJ has even stated that Hakeem was his toughest competition.

    • @bcjclj
      @bcjclj 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      Nathan Salinas what the fuck does regular season games have to do with the finals?! Utah beat the Bulls both regular season games in 97-98, and they still got their asses handed to them by Mike. Cleveland beat the Bulls in 6 regular season games during the 88-89 season, and Mike beat them in the playoffs. Regular season has shit to do with post season. Hell, LeBron swept a 60 win Hawks team that beat the Cavs 3 out of 4 games in the regular season. That don’t mean shit.

    • @nathansalinas1669
      @nathansalinas1669 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @TerrorTown7575 The Magic that beat Chicago lost against the Rockets, so I don't think that logic would still apply

    • @maviebaby
      @maviebaby 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Heat Lebron was 54% from the field, tho. Put some respect on his name.

    • @somregularguy
      @somregularguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Tsahi Carmona “still rusty” lmao stop it he’s great but stop it who was gonna guard Hakeem, he was unstoppable

  • @KnightsofMelvin
    @KnightsofMelvin 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    It really depends on how they filled out the roster for years 4-8. Also, for how many years after the first 3 was Grant any good? They wouldn’t have got Rodman. Maybe they win 4 or 5 in a row.

  • @Northphilly-wu4oq
    @Northphilly-wu4oq 4 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    That shows how amazing jordan was he beat a prime penny and shaq with a sweep, i hate how shannon sharp like to paint the narrative that jordan folded in that series he was still rusty and still averaged 30

    • @awesomenessbrown12345
      @awesomenessbrown12345 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      North philly 215 he wasn’t as rusty as people claim as he was dropping 40 plus games in those playoffs. He was physically not all the way there, he wasn’t completely out of shape. He did kind of choke and play very poorly during the magic

    • @rankarat
      @rankarat 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@awesomenessbrown12345
      He was very good, but he was not regular jordan level.

    • @awesomenessbrown12345
      @awesomenessbrown12345 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ran Karat oh yeah defo, he wasn’t at his prime status before he retired

    • @KnightsofMelvin
      @KnightsofMelvin 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It’s not like the 3peat team was beat. Grant switched sides, tipping the scale. Plus Jordan was obviously rusty. Orlando was also really good.

    • @awesomenessbrown12345
      @awesomenessbrown12345 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Shanon B yes I legit said he was no where near MJ standards of prime. I also said he still didn’t play well vs magic

  • @mr.sinjin-smyth
    @mr.sinjin-smyth 4 ปีที่แล้ว +103

    Jordan initially retired in 1993 due to the trauma of his father's MURDER and played baseball to HONOR him. He only returned in the late portion of 1994-95 season after finally getting over it. If not for his father's murder, there a good chance Jordan could've led Chicago to 8 straight NBA finals and rings. James Jordan's killer (ironically a Jordan fan) deserves blame for ruining such a possibility.

    • @leemcb7297
      @leemcb7297 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      There are rumors that MJ gambled on games, and he was secretly suspended for 2 years (played baseball instead)....so no chance of eight titles at all

    • @elbowgang9715
      @elbowgang9715 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@leemcb7297 Isiah Thomas actually gambled on games with the Mob hell he might've thrown a few games

    • @gilbertsanchez2568
      @gilbertsanchez2568 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Trauma my ass,isn't he the goat, I think the NBA intentionally made the bulls avoid hakeem's beast season,don't forget that the rockets have a solid role player bench

    • @youretoonosey6334
      @youretoonosey6334 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yes MJ would have won 8 straight, only if his teammates showed up to play as well.
      Dude's act like it was all MJ, and not a stacked team behind him. Bulls had he best Scorer in MJ, the best wing defender in Pippen and a paint beast in Rodman. Not to mention how deep the rotation could go because of their bench.

    • @gilbertsanchez2568
      @gilbertsanchez2568 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@youretoonosey6334 mj's team mates were no scrubs

  • @Jonathan-A.C.
    @Jonathan-A.C. 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Fatigue is the biggest factor to me.
    No way are they realistically going that strong for 8 straight final appearances until June, then immediately becoming ready for games again in October. Not only would they have to be focused and determined to play Basketball consistently year round during the break, but they’d have to sub in recovery time over training time just to stand a chance. Maybe they could not play as many games in the main season, especially in the start of the season, but that would still affect their overall legacies given regular season play.
    Only a star studded squad, who had focus only on BB, and who had around 25-30 player in totality who could legitimately play if required, could even attempt to do something like that.

  • @evanclp514
    @evanclp514 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    it's a shame Jordan retired early twice and then came back too late with the Wizards. he probably could have played from '84 to '00 or '01 at a sustained high level and competed for a few more championships before retiring. he's still the GOAT either way by a large margin but would have been nice to see those potential matchups in the finals with Hakeem or maybe vs the Lakers with Shaq & Kobe.

  • @willhairstonful
    @willhairstonful 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Jonny Arnett: Your You Tube posts are a bazillion times better than what is on FOX Sports 1 and ESPN. Keep up the good work!

  • @sedricgo1563
    @sedricgo1563 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    One of my favorite youtubers ever.

  • @mkfitzge6354
    @mkfitzge6354 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    No, he needed that break. He was beyond exhausted and even after the break, the same fatigue was setting in for the second three peat. He said he wanted to try for a fourth in the documentary though, and I believe him that the challenge of going for 4 would have fueled them through another successful season. But I do think he needed that break in 93.

    • @bullydwilliams6785
      @bullydwilliams6785 ปีที่แล้ว

      He wouldn't have needed a break if his father wasn't murdered.

  • @DPH1301
    @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    The mistake most people when speaking against Jordan is that they use conclusions mainly based on regular logic, normal reasoning and common sense, but what you all forget is Jordan couldn't really be limited by those measures, he was something that was never seen before and never seen since, you cant conclude or judge Jordan on any normal parameters or anything that makes normal sense, Michael Jordan was not normal...

  • @jamaldaniels7402
    @jamaldaniels7402 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome take well done sir.. You are now 1 of my favorite you tubers...no biasness with you. Keep 🆙 the good work

  • @tzovlask
    @tzovlask ปีที่แล้ว +2

    another factor is that 2 more full NBA seasons with deep playoff runs would have had an impact on Jodan's body/health/conditioning. We say MJ running on fumes dueingg the 97 and 98 finals, he was still obviously great but his efficiency had diminished severely.

  • @johnnyfive5628
    @johnnyfive5628 4 ปีที่แล้ว +67

    A short season in 99 would have gave there fresh legs a 9th in a row.

    • @Budd631
      @Budd631 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Jordan had half a season but somehow wasn’t “fresh”. Averages 32ppg in the playoffs but isn’t “back yet”. It’s a silly conversation. He was back and has excuses. If he won, he was a God. He had nothing to lose even though...he lost in 95.

    • @somregularguy
      @somregularguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Budd631 I agree, Jordan is the goat but I hate how people try to remove all the blemishes from his career

    • @mixedpleasure4324
      @mixedpleasure4324 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Or at least 4 straight if we still say he retired in 93 but came back and won 96 97 98 and then 99 and then I'll say it would be over after that but they could without any doubt have won in 99 had the team been together

    • @flightreacts4603
      @flightreacts4603 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Bulls with grant but not rodman may beat 1995 rockets in tough 7 games series . However , they may not beat the sonics in 1996 as the sonics even swept the rockets . Not to mention 1997 and 98 jazz which is even more powerful . Jordan may have 5 straight titles but it still hella inpressive .

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He wouldn't have even beaten Houston in 95. Nice try Jordan jocker

  • @danielc3321
    @danielc3321 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I think one of the reasons MJ retired, along with everything else, was championship fatigue. Stepping away for a bit helped him regain his motivation, which led to the 2nd 3-peat.

    • @mrblob5413
      @mrblob5413 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah definitely not that his dad was murdered.

  • @somregularguy
    @somregularguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Nah Steve Kerr himself said that they would’ve burned out and lost the motivation, Jordan’s retirement was a blessing in disguise and key for such an accomplishment

    • @leerussell8778
      @leerussell8778 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I agree. I was 19 when he retired in 1993. MJ was being scrutinized, and run down by media, gambling, and then his dad got murdered. People foolishly believed his gambling had something to do with it. As focused as MJ was, I don't think he would have made 8 straight without a break.

  • @waynemacgillivary7476
    @waynemacgillivary7476 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for the great video. I've been waiting for years for someone to do this. MJ & his Bulls were on a tear and I'm totally not sure about 8, but I'm thinking a solid 5 maybe 6. The times & #s don't lie. The 90s were all about the Bulls.

  • @dumbname939
    @dumbname939 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In ‘98, the Bulls came dangerously close to losing to the Pacers. If Jordan never retired, he was already mentally fatigued and felt unmotivated, but after making the Finals and even winning the championship for just five or six years, fatigue would have certainly caught up and they would likely fall to the Pacers, Knicks, Heat, or Jazz if they even make it that far.

  • @jaybrandriet9381
    @jaybrandriet9381 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    You nailed it with your last point. To three-peat twice was amazing enough. The energy and good fortune to win 8 straight is hard to comprehend in the modern day. Houston was an uphill match up for the Bulls during that time. If anyone could do it, it'd be Mike. That said, I've always leaned "65-35" they would not have won 8 straight.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Many people considered Jordan not human, even nba players, some actually questioned there own abilities because of him, some actually thought he was Jesus, Jordan would have won 8 straight, ya'll must have forget who he was and what he accomplished

    • @jaybrandriet9381
      @jaybrandriet9381 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@DPH1301 Jordan of all people deserve the benefit of the doubt? Sure. But look how hard it was to beat Utah. They could barely breath taking out Indiana in game 7 in 1998. With two more title runs in place of where MJ needed to rest mentally in 94 and 95...1997 and 1998 become hard to imagine.and Imagine is all we can do.

    • @jaybrandriet9381
      @jaybrandriet9381 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      "Who he was and what he accomplished" was well represented by three peating twice. Granted he walked away from the opportunity to win 4 straight, twice. He never won 4 straight. The idea of 8, is just that...an idea.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jaybrandriet9381 We shouldn't ask the question would he win 8 straight, the real question should be who would stop Michael Jordan and the championship bulls from winning??? name the team and the players and why, because I don't know any, because of Michael Jordan, many hallnof fame players never won a championship, losing to the bulls is why and Jordan was unquestionably the bulls best player, he's the main reason they have no championships, so tell me who would stop the bulls from getting 8 straight? Probably could have got 10 straight before the natural old age decline

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jaybrandriet9381 Utah was an amazing team in doubt, they are the type of team that would make you not want to step on the court, their main alpha players being John Stockton and Karl Malone, this is a duo that is a nightmare to face, Karl Malone is the #2 all time scorer all time, John Stockton is the #2 all time point guard if all time, as incredible a nightmare as the Utah Jazz was they lost to the Bulls twice by knockout, both times they never made it to the final round (a game seven), As crazy as the Stockton Malone Utah Jazz was, they were defeated by knockout both times, this even helps my argument about Michael Jordan and the bulls winning 8 straight, everyone they beat for the championship were all beaten by knockout

  • @theephraimite
    @theephraimite 4 ปีที่แล้ว +193

    Possibly ten straight if they didn’t decide to rebuild in 1998.

    • @ogloc4478
      @ogloc4478 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      9 straight at least a good possibility considering the 99 season was shortened and a deep playoff run would’ve amounted to just the length of a regular season. 91-99 certainly possible and 2000 against Kobe Shaq and la would’ve been great

    • @Mektek19
      @Mektek19 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      9 straight my guy. Jordan and Pippen were pretty broken down from the long runs. 99 was the perfect season for them to get one last title because it was a shorten season. I think it was actually 50 games. The old bulls could have snuck in one more title in a shorter season.

    • @bGzzzzz
      @bGzzzzz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      @@ogloc4478 that 2000 Lakers team wouldn't exist, that team only made it after Phil was their coach. Shaq even said it, that he didn't respect anyone until Phil came along.

    • @ethanennis8
      @ethanennis8 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Mektek19 The 99 season would’ve destroyed that bulls team injury wise, back to back to backs, 6 games in 7 nights, etc

    • @theephraimite
      @theephraimite 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      T Mitch, you and I are humans too. So, who can say for sure?

  • @ClayShorterSTL
    @ClayShorterSTL 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Those are all great points. The only thing is that I believe that even with Grant, considering that all they gave up was Will Perdue, they make that trade for Rodman. Listed at 6'10" and with his length, I could see Horace sliding over to the center position even with the bigger players. I actually think that would've made them more dangerous and stifling as a defense. With a starting 5 of C Grant, PF Rodman, SF Pippen, SG Jordan and PG Harper, they could smother everyone and not having defensive liabilities in the front court along with a proven 15+ ppg scorer in Grant they would've easily taken it up to 8

    • @kingpete3160
      @kingpete3160 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You are so correct on that facts 💯 I said the samething with the same line up u mention for the bulls I see 8 straight championships if that line up had existed

  • @chitweak18
    @chitweak18 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    They could have gone to 10 straight Finals. 90 through 99. I think they would have gone 8-2 maybe 9-1 in the Finals had MJ not retired, the Scottie Pippen Migraine game, and Jerry Krause decided to bring the whole team back for the 1999 season.

  • @danlora5599
    @danlora5599 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think this is a fantastic take. My reasoning is a bit different but I share similar view.
    1. As much as the Bulls were strong I think Scottie needed that 1 season on his own. To sort of answer the question to himself of how good he actually was. I think with Jordan still playing, Scottie eventually asks to be traded to get his big money.
    History has shown no matter how in synch guys maybe, if you have two superstars in their prime, 1 eventually feels undervalued and wants out.
    2. Jordans toughest finals was against the Sonics. They absolutely beat the crap out of him physically. But mind you this is after time off, a full season and him having been in his best shape in years motivated by loss to Orlando.
    What's my point? My point is father time is father time. Even if for arguement sake they win both series against Houston, I don't think they beat Seattle if he had played two previous years.
    Think about it. Jordan didn't believe in load management. So that's 164 regular season games. A minimum of 193 games if you sweep every team in post season BOTH years. Given that highly unlikely case, you are talking an additional 200 plus games before you even play 82 in THAT season plus 10 more games before even getting to Seattle.
    Thats ALOT of wear and tear. I just think given all that im not saying Bulls weren't good enough but its additional wear and tear that has to be acknowledged.
    Mind you lets say Jordan is Jordan of old and even sharper. Thats failing to take into account the OTHER guys might be burned out.
    This to me is an even greater factor than number 1.
    3. I feel at some point, a team would have made a trade to try and be on par with Bulls. Again try lol. The fact he was gone for two years had teams saying well we're good enough as is but he is the reason we lost. Now that hes gone our same group can do it. Ala Knicks, Pacers not making any moves and Knicks were sort of right as they made finals.
    When a guy kicks your ass 6 straight years you have to say we need to do something.
    Jordan lulled you into basically saying eh hes Jordan so we're not winning anyway.
    I think 5 straight or 6 was possible but i think at some point, he needed that rest. I also think team itself needed that loss aganist NY to remind them its not a mandate you win the title. It made them find their fire again.

  • @chitownsuperfan
    @chitownsuperfan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great analysis. I've always thought about that Grant-Rodman tradeoff.

  • @spindakiwi1127
    @spindakiwi1127 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    I think jordan said in an interview "we are lucky this monster doesnt come out of the west"reffering to olajuwon after getting beaten by the rovkets...

    • @dbernardt0681
      @dbernardt0681 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I think Houston would've gave Chicago lots of problems and I really think the '95 Rockets may have actually beat them in a 7 game series especially if Clyde Drexler was on the Houston roster. That 95 Houston team was playing near flawless basketball by the time they got very deep into playoffs (Hence why Houston destroyed a 62 win San Antonio Team and Hakeem dominated David Robinson and Houston sweeping the #1 Seeded Orlando Magic with Shaq and Penny in finals). Granted, I think the 94 Bulls with Jordan would've squeeked out a series win vs Houston giving them 4 straight titles but at that point, the grind of having to win 4 straight would've started catching up with Chicago going into the next season (94-95) and The Rockets would've came back even stronger/hungrier in 95 and finally have been the team to dethrone Chicago. The 95-96 Bulls team however, would've came back with a point to prove especially MJ and I really think they still would've won 70 games that year like they did in real life and would've reclaimed the NBA throne against either Houston, Seattle. Utah or whoever would've won the west that year.

    • @mixedpleasure4324
      @mixedpleasure4324 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@dbernardt0681 That sound reasonable but we never know but what we do know is - 6 championship - 6 fmvps - never a game 7 - 10 time scoring champ - 9 time first team defense - 1 dpoy - 3 time steals leader - 2 time dunk champ - 2 olympic gold medals - highest PER in NBA history - Highest scoring average in the regular season - Highest scoring average in the playoff with amazing 33.4 points per game - two season with over 200 steals and 100 blocks as the only player ever - 3 time all star mvp. Greatest and best player in NBA history.

    • @TheFadedSpade35
      @TheFadedSpade35 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@dbernardt0681 I agree, Houston would have won at least one of those matchups

    • @l9ikjam
      @l9ikjam 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dbernardt0681 rodman on Hakeem with Jordan and pippen helping to defend them like they did against shaq. The bulls would have won in 6 both years

    • @TheFadedSpade35
      @TheFadedSpade35 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@l9ikjam disagree

  • @jaydentimestwo5350
    @jaydentimestwo5350 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Hey my favorite nba youtuber (honestly tho) very underrated

    • @barbearianlando3338
      @barbearianlando3338 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Jayden TimesTwo second that bro. *lifts glass*

  • @nathanjohnson2382
    @nathanjohnson2382 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Rockets vs Bulls would of been crazy in 94 and 95. Hakeem is a top 5 player in my opinion. Good chance it’s spilt due to fatigue. Bulls had the best team but idk how they’d match up after 4 or 5 straight titles.

  • @ChrisTopheRaz
    @ChrisTopheRaz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I think if Jordan had come back for the full year rather than with 17 games left in the season, it could have been 7 total.

  • @iank3924
    @iank3924 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Umm no. Just no. You're acting as if they won 5 straight and then Horace fell off that they couldn't replace Horace with the rest of the pieces they had? I love Dennis, but if you don't think they couldn't replace him and still beat Seattle and Utah assuming they beat Houston twice I think you're really reaching.

    • @jflack6
      @jflack6 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You and only 9 folks

  • @thein-famouselguapo15
    @thein-famouselguapo15 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Didn't see the clip, don't need to.
    Just came straight to the comments to give the obvious answer. Yes, without a doubt. He and the bulls were at their prime when he retired. Nuff said.

  • @Gabriela-Acevedo
    @Gabriela-Acevedo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    Bulls got to game 7 of 94 semifinals with no Jordan. I think they would've beat Pacers in conference finals and Rockets in the finals. Now 95 would've been a little more tough but I think with Jordan playing all year they would of beat Orlando in conference finals and Houston in the finals. To answer question i say yes.

    • @ryanpowers3155
      @ryanpowers3155 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      if he didnt retire he would have lost in 1998 and in another year injuries fatigue motivation and the best teams he would of had to face in his whole career if he didnt retire its almost impossible he could win 8 and rlly unlikely he wins 7 he would have won 5 or 6 plus the fact that he almost got season ending injuries twice but was lucky and with that many games i think its very likely he would of missed a playoffs from injuries and his team mates might be injuierd like lebrons in 2015 its basically impossible he wins 8 plus in 1994 he did lose in 6 games soo idk how you can say mj wins 8

    • @pickzkickz
      @pickzkickz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      JORDAN DID PLAY AGAINST INDIANA MORON.

    • @JudaMetalMaiden
      @JudaMetalMaiden 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@pickzkickz Bulls did not play against Indiana in 94 or 95 playoffs. They only played Indiana in eastern conference finals of 1998 moron.

    • @allsystemsgo8678
      @allsystemsgo8678 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@pickzkickz do you really have to call someone a moron because they may have been wrong?

    • @theephraimite
      @theephraimite 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ryan Powers, Jordan didn’t play in 94. Besides, what you say is just conjecture.

  • @johncambridge7181
    @johncambridge7181 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like the rodman argument. Many basketball fans said bulls made a super team when they signed rodman as to counter KD, lebron made/joined super team. When bulls signed rodman it was a huge gamble. No one know what they gonna get from him because he was so unpredictable , old, passed his prime and some say he would ruin the harmony of the organisation. But Phil managed that and resurrected rodman turned him as 1 of the reasons bulls won the second 3peat.

  • @michaelbonhomme3677
    @michaelbonhomme3677 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That would be a dream campaign. I feel like if his father lived healthy to this year and beyond, the only problem is Jordan’s teammates. I don’t think Jordan would become soft and complacent, but it’s hard to keep hungry without moving players around

  • @MrFantastic23
    @MrFantastic23 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Just want preface this and say I am a huge jordan fan! Huge! I was 13 when he won his first chip and watched pretty much every Bulls game even when he took that baseball hiatus. And I have never thought they would have won 8 straight I feel that overall they may have still won six after winning 4 in a row they would have lost somewhere along that time frame but that loss would reignite the fire and they would win another two not sure back to back but I just think 6 in 8 years seems about right.

  • @poi2587
    @poi2587 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Unless someone incredible comes around. MJ will forever be the goat

  • @svantelindqvist4275
    @svantelindqvist4275 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The fact that even Air Jordan could not have won 8-straight is a testament to Bill Russell's greatness

    • @cassianandor4103
      @cassianandor4103 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bill Russel won when there was 8 teams in the league lol. And in Russel's era the players were literal plumbers in the offseason so it was quite a different era.

  • @damianlebuda2845
    @damianlebuda2845 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    8th in the row would be difficult even to the GOAT Michael Jordan and even more importantly Bulls organization. But, it would have been fantastic finals against Rockets and Hakeem Olajuwon, who is my favourite player of the 1990s. Great video. Looking forward to next.

  • @historiaeesporte
    @historiaeesporte 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    a video on Wilt Chamberlain's game change after a major injury in late 69.
    he was on a roll in the fist 9 games, then got injured.

  • @DJQuan718
    @DJQuan718 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It's great to see Hakeem getting more love. That man was a beast. People talk about Shaq well Hakeem cooked that man
    5:34 Making him look stupid

    • @troyandres3402
      @troyandres3402 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cooked, stewed, deep fried... smoked the Admiral.. toasted Ewing... 💯

  • @thengyang5537
    @thengyang5537 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    What are u talking about?..The rockets couldn't even get past the Sonics 96 the jazz 97 n 98...Bulls dont need anyone else but the GOAT n hus sidekick.

    • @jimkouts3328
      @jimkouts3328 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Exactly and they also had for second year (I mean in 1996) Clyde and they still swept by the sonics and in 1997 they have added sir Charles and still failed to pass the Utah in the conference finals

    • @MrJohnnyAOA
      @MrJohnnyAOA 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Cool story what about 94 95?

    • @Budd631
      @Budd631 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Theng Yang they didn’t match up well with the Sonics. They would double the post EVERY time va Hakeem. The Bulls NEVER double teamed. Very different match up

    • @TheyoungZidane
      @TheyoungZidane 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      COULDNT even get past the sonics as if that’s a big deal. MJ got locked up by Payton. Bulls in 95 lost to the magic, mj couldn’t even win 4 straight.

    • @yvans.
      @yvans. 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Theng Yang how to discuss with a fan...

  • @robhughes8198
    @robhughes8198 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Olajuwon is the only player I’ve seen make MJ consistently change his inside shots on a regular basis. I think the 94 series would’ve been one of the greatest ever. However Olajuwon was the greatest center to play post 1980 and he the was the Franchise Houston Rockets, they were NOTHING without him. The 94 Bulls went far without MJ and to say the Rockets would’ve won FOR SURE is bullshit. I really wish Jordan didn’t have a gambling addiction and we might’ve seen this series.

    • @kingpete3160
      @kingpete3160 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think jordan and the bulls wins in game 6 vs rockets

  • @Zero-ef4sc
    @Zero-ef4sc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I can't stress this enough, the Rockets picked Hakeem over Jordan in the 1984 NBA draft, but NO ONE criticizes the Rockets for that pick.

  • @grantberdell4872
    @grantberdell4872 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great analysis as always!

  • @torahisgood
    @torahisgood 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    1:25 also the 1947-1949 Minneapolis lakers

  • @steviecritiquenewby7874
    @steviecritiquenewby7874 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    That would have been a good one between the bulls and rocket I think the 95 rockets would have gave the bulls a problem

  • @owenparker6651
    @owenparker6651 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    That little Horace Grant - Dennis Rodman nugget is a real chicken bone when it comes to swallowing the bulls winning 8 straight. Helluva point for any such debate...

  • @michaelthompson9119
    @michaelthompson9119 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Spot on

  • @Ae073001
    @Ae073001 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. Thanks for your balanced analysis.

  • @e-musickvance3581
    @e-musickvance3581 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Bulls vs Rockets greatest NBA Finals that never happened.

    • @dontdoittoyoself6786
      @dontdoittoyoself6786 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I think Bulls win in 6 both times.

    • @joeman425
      @joeman425 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You need to get some rest, they would be lucky to win one against the Rockets.

  • @kalelwilson8337
    @kalelwilson8337 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    What made Mike different was his mentality.. He would've found ways to win

  • @brandonhensley14
    @brandonhensley14 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    It's amazing to me that no one takes into account the emotional and physical toll winning eight championships in the modern era of the NBA would take on a team. People say no doubt, don't bet against Jordan. But you're not taking into account mounting stress, freak injuries, bad bounces of the ball, and opponents getting tired of always losing. You can't just look at things on paper. That's extremely naive and short-sighted.
    They would not have won eight in a row. Ridiculous.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @Nancy Pelosi 👍Some people including NBA players were actually questioning themselves that they really believed MJ was Jesus, Larry Bird even called him god, MJ is from some kind if distant planet like krypton or something lol

    • @tdvu
      @tdvu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yep, you also have to factor in many variables that have to change to go for 8 straight. Even if Jordan doesn't retire, does that change Horace leaving the Bulls in 94? And suppose they keep winning and he stays, that means Rodman in a Bulls uniform does not happen. And with Grant against a Karl Malone and Shawn Kemp from 96-98, the Finals' results may have been different. Who knows. Just too much to factor there.

    • @bigworm2129
      @bigworm2129 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly. And in 94, the East was even more physical than ever. Those Knicks were at their peak and were even more physical than before. The Bulls might not even make it out of the East in 94. Same in 95, that Magic team had talent coming out their ears and a tired Bulls may have been able to handle them.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@bigworm2129 The mistake most people when speaking against Jordan is that they use conclusions mainly based on regular logic, normal reasoning and common sense, but what you all forget is Jordan couldn't really be limited by those measures, he was something that was never seen before and never seen since, you cant conclude or judge Jordan on any normal parameters or anything that makes normal sense, Michael Jordan was not normal...

    • @bigworm2129
      @bigworm2129 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@DPH1301 WTF? He's a damn human just live everyone else, man. Settle down. He gets tired, he loses focus, and he has limits, just like everyone else. If he didn't, he'd shoot 1.000% and go 82-0 every season and would still be winning championships today at 50 years old. Some of y'all get carried away...

  • @ernestchamblee
    @ernestchamblee 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great analysis. Awesome video.

  • @thegodzillacollector6226
    @thegodzillacollector6226 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think that in this case the bulls would have won in 94 but lost in the finals in 95. I don’t think they would have made the finals in 96. I do think they would have won in 97 but not make the finals in 98 due to the extra years Jordan would’ve played in the league (this is because Jordan would’ve had more wear and tear to his body). Do Jordan ends up with 5 championships and 1 finals loss. I think everything ended perfectly for the Bulls and Rockets though.

  • @Thetruth11033
    @Thetruth11033 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Jordan left 2 rings on the table, one when he retired to play baseball and another one when he retired after 1998

  • @unabdgf
    @unabdgf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Yup, Sure would have won 8. But, Vegas wouldn’t like that.

    • @ranelgallardo7031
      @ranelgallardo7031 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pfft...most superteams like MJs 90s Bulls wouldn’t last more than 3 years. There would’ve been mass exodus of some key players due to salary cap (the team can’t afford to them some players since they have good higher paid players).

  • @muhdewd9727
    @muhdewd9727 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Scotty pippen nearly lead the bulls to the finals by himself in '94. That team was pretty good without Jordan.. with him, most certainly four in a row.

  • @whitespacecollective95
    @whitespacecollective95 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm a big MJ stan but no way! 8 straight is insane. He needed those two years off to rest. Also, the Bulls have a winning record against every team except for one. Can you guess which one? The Houston Rockets. Granted, I think he would've won 4 straight, lose, and win 3 more but not 8 straight lol...

  • @samuelhuggins3173
    @samuelhuggins3173 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I believe 10 straight. I just don't see anyone stopping Mike in the 90's. His drive is something not seen ever before.

    • @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705
      @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      They don't win that 96 finals without Rodman and they don't become desperate enough to trade for him if they are not trying to fill the void Horace Grant left when he left in free agency, so no

    • @maryakopyan3224
      @maryakopyan3224 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      96' team would've won it with Horace Grant too. It's just that the 95' team had no power forward.

  • @animeguitarguy
    @animeguitarguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think psychologically they may have indeed been burnt out. With MJ in those years though it's always a strong possibility

    • @jp3813
      @jp3813 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ​@Inigo Bantok MJ didn't even sleep much during the Dream Team's tour b/c he played golf & cards in-between basketball games or practices. His teammates talked about his endless energy in the 2012 documentary. The rest of the Bulls is another matter though.

    • @animeguitarguy
      @animeguitarguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Excellent points. The rest of the team probably would have indeed been the deciding factor

  • @g-manjams
    @g-manjams 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    As great as mj was, there's no way he takes both of the years he wasn't in the finals. The rockets were too good. He might take one of those years, but a lot of people forget that Olajuwon was playing outside of this galaxy those two years.
    Vernon Maxwell was also an absolute beast defender that would've beaten mj up all series long.
    The bulls didn't have a big guy that could've kept up with Hakeem. He dominated the 3 next best big men in the game those years.
    I will say this, MJ is the absolute best player of all time, head and shoulders above everyone else...
    But Hakeem was every bit on his level those two championship years.
    He MIGHT take one of those years, but no way he takes both.

  • @fireeagle5633
    @fireeagle5633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There is a simple reason why jordan and the bulls would have never won 8 straight title
    Hakeem was too much even for the bulls

  • @julios3039
    @julios3039 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice analysis, but I have a major objection: that Horace Grant would have surely stayed had Jordan not retired. If we were to judge by Sam Smith's very insightful book "Jordan Rules", it is more likely that Grant would have left the Bulls regardless of Jordan (or even because of for that matter). In that case I see the Rockets as the favorites at least for the 1995 title.
    Generally I am against taking anything away from the Rockets' success during those two seasons by saying that they wouldn't have won had Jordan not retired. They were a fantastic team and they won.

  • @munoken
    @munoken 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ultimately it really doesn't matter, like you said 2 3-peats in the same decade = GOAT!

  • @MISTERO70
    @MISTERO70 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I think that the Bulls would've lost to the 94-95 Rockets because of The Dream and The Glide

    • @vincentvader2840
      @vincentvader2840 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sure, because the Glide showed the world before how to deal with MJ...

    • @MISTERO70
      @MISTERO70 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vincentvader2840 yes sir. It'll went seven games but the Bulls wouldn't be able to to stop Hakeem.

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vincentvader2840 yeah clyde wasnt being led by Hakeem in 92.
      Oh this how Dream treated that version of him:
      th-cam.com/video/Tpk_O6TVPsI/w-d-xo.html

    • @sonnymp1337
      @sonnymp1337 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MISTERO70 where was hakeem 84-94? Where?

  • @RWBprototype
    @RWBprototype 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Even Jordan said he felt rusty, even tho statistically, he was amazing.

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah he also said before the playoffs: "Orlando is not a problem".

    • @kang6914
      @kang6914 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Weak excuse

  • @sedricgo1563
    @sedricgo1563 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Scenario 3: Jordan would win 6 to 7 because of The Dream and almost no one can stop him. The Rodman trade can still possibly go through. The Sonics can beat MJ in 96. Hakeem can win in either 94 or 95 but that is only a possibility but I would say that Hakeem would win in 95 because he had Clyde Drexler.

  • @matsong5134
    @matsong5134 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’ve always believed that he wouldn’t win 8 because he said himself that he needed to leave the NBA at the end of 93. “I was at the top for so long, I forgot the steps it took for me to get there.” (MJ)
    However if he didn’t retire at the end of 98 and went one more year with the same coach and team, they would have won in 99. So in my opinion they would have won 7 titles all up.

  • @madcapper6
    @madcapper6 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There's no doubt in my mind the Bulls were better during the second 3-peat as compared to the first and Rodman was the difference. As solid of a contributor Grant was in the first run, Rodman just took them to a higher level defensively. You bring up a good point about the butterfly effect of Jordan's retirement leading to the departure of Grant and the addition of Rodman that led to the 2nd three-peat. Decent chance they could've won both in '94 and '95 had Jordan played and Grant stayed but they wouldn't have been as good or as dominant as they were with Rodman from '96 to '98. I never really considered that because I was never aware or cared to find out the circumstances surrounding Grant's departure after '94. I always assumed it was just a case of another team throwing a bunch of $$ at him and that was that.

  • @DPH1301
    @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is probably the first video that I actually disagree with you, you have to remember who Michael Jordan is/was, if Jordan has any kind of significant help then he's winning championships period, yes he had a decline when he came back which is naturally expected from not being in the nba for a while, and yes his latter years with the bulls he had slightly lower averages than the first 3 championship years, but this is Michael Jordan, if he's in the NBA with help then he's winning championships. Remember this is also the 40 year old who was arguably the best player in the league even at his old age, and he clearly didnt come back to the NBA to the wizards for the purpose of being the best like before, he came back simply for the love of the game. Michael Jordan the greatest player of all time (who some NBA players actually thought he was Jesus because of everything phenomenal that he was) would have won 8 straight championships had he never retired (also meaning had he never lost his father, his best friend)...

    • @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705
      @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Even Michael Jordan himself said they probably would not have won 8 straight had he not retired. Steve Kerr also said they wouldn't have had the motivation if he hadn't stepped away for a while

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 It doesnt matter what Michael Jordan himself said, Michael Jordan was/is a competitive psychopath, every year he competed in his prime after his first championship with the Bulls would be a year that he would have been obsessed with winning. Who would have stopped them from winning, name the team and the player, because I just dont know who could stop a Michael Jordan led Chicago Bulls team. Jordan had superior basketball skills far beyond anyone and he expected him team to play at a specific level of greatness. He does not like to lose so him saying he wouldn't have won 8 straight seems odd to me. The Chicago Bulls led by Michael Jordan won 6 straight, so if he thinks he wouldn't have won 8 straight sounds strange

    • @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705
      @masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DPH1301 Regardless, I don't think they would be able to pull off 8 straight taking into account all the wear and tear that would go into playing 8 straight seasons and finals runs, regardless of if you're a gym rat or not.
      I don't think they would have won in 94-95 because Horace Grant was gonna leave that team anyway since he didn't really like Jordan.

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 Steinerliner 3 You have to remember that the question here is would Michael Jordan have won 8 straight, we already know the Bulls can't win 8 straight, Michael Jordan is the sole reason for the championships the bulls won. Horace Grant is a great player but he is not the difference maker between a championship and a loss, Michael Jordan is, and mj is the one player that "wear and tear" is not an issue. It doesnt really matter who is on the Bulls as long as he has his sidekick Scottie Pippen and other good role players. That is all it takes for Michael Jordan to win championships. His sidekick Scottie Pippen (jordan is greatly responsible for the player that pippen turned into) and a decent team then its championship here we come

    • @DPH1301
      @DPH1301 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 Ignore the spelling errors

  • @picafavo3466
    @picafavo3466 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    See, I think he would’ve beat the Rockets in 1994, but in 1995 with the Rockets trading for Clyde Drexler the bulls wouldn’t have won. Without Rodman on the team, they couldn’t guard the paint. Plus Jordan would have to go against star Clyde Drexler. With two dominant scoring players with different skills, the bulls would come close, but wouldn’t win.

    • @torhowell5202
      @torhowell5202 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      No they'd lose both. 94 in 5 because mad max and 95 in 6. Because no madmax. But if jordan stayed you could convince him to stay.

  • @big-l5771
    @big-l5771 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Yes without a doubt because in 93 Houston wasn't even a thought. To many bug body's to through at Hakeem

    • @ryanpowers3155
      @ryanpowers3155 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      if he didnt retire he would have lost in 1998 and in another year injuries fatigue motivation and the best teams he would of had to face in his whole career if he didnt retire its almost impossible he could win 8 and rlly unlikely he wins 7 he would have won 5 or 6 plus the fact that he almost got season ending injuries twice but was lucky and with that many games i think its very likely he would of missed a playoffs from injuries and his team mates might be injuierd like lebrons in 2015 its basically impossible he wins 8 plus in 1994 he did lose in 6 games soo idk how you can say mj wins 8

    • @arizonaFIREent
      @arizonaFIREent 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      93 was also the same year the Lakers blew a 2-0 lead in a best of 5 haha

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      How many bodies did they throw at Shaq when he threw them outta Chicago in game 6 in the United Center?

  • @paoerfulone1089
    @paoerfulone1089 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    No. He might have won in ‘94, if he was lucky. But not in ‘95. There’s a good chance the Bulls lose both years.
    And I say that for one reason: Hakeem Olajuwon. At that time, which was probably the greatest period of Big Men in NBA history: You had Ewing, Robinson, Young Shaq, Rik Smits. Then the great PFs with Barkley, Malone, Shawn Kemp, and even Horace Grant and Otis Thorpe. So many great Big Men at the time: Hakeem was the greatest of them all. He was head and shoulders above the rest. The way he decimated and humiliated Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq in ‘94 and ‘95 while also beating Barkley’s Suns and Malone’s Jazz was just unbelievable.
    And this was against the other best big men in the game at the time. What do you think he would have done poor Bill Cartwright and Will Purdue? He would have chewed them up and spit them out. The Bulls would have had absolutely NO answers for Olajuwon.
    Jordan would have had his hands full with Vernon Maxwell and Clyde Drexler.
    Drexler speaks for himself. As for Vernon Maxwell, there’s a reason he was called “Mad Max.” He did not back down from ANYONE. MJ would have still gotten his 30, but Max would have made him EARN it.
    Hakeem would have shown up and shown out in both those years and the Rockets would have won at least one, if not both.

  • @rhettwild
    @rhettwild 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    most NBA greats like Kobe don't die so young a video of the all-time afterlife roster would be cool being a large portion of the all-time greats are still alive being the game isn't that old compared to other major sports in America

  • @pfzt
    @pfzt ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Yes, he would have. I watched all the finals back then and there was just nothing like his mental strength and pure will to win, he was just there for every microsecond of the games, that was very intimidating, you could see the pants full of the opponents through the 240 px resolution of the TV back then.

  • @smashph1568
    @smashph1568 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    THEY CANT WIN UNTIL WE QUIT
    💍💍💍MJ🐐23💍💍💍

    • @troyandres3402
      @troyandres3402 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Loved when MJ said that to Pip! 💯✌🏾

    • @FuShengAlex
      @FuShengAlex 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jordan quit on Chicago vs Orlando at home in game 6 in 95 to lose the series lol

  • @crazysoulja
    @crazysoulja 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    At least 7, with a 4 peat at the beginning or end.

  • @grantl7062
    @grantl7062 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video, I think it’s fun to speculate for 94 but he was there in 95, he was rested healthy, rusty yes but he had 17 games and playoffs to get the feel back, he is the goat after all (what is the min number of games to eliminate rust?) the Rockets added Drexler and swept the Magic who beat bulls, 95 belongs to Rockets period

  • @historiaeesporte
    @historiaeesporte 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. My opinion, no they wouldn't. A topic and a request: a video on Magic Johnson's return, in 1996.

  • @nicolocadamuro9988
    @nicolocadamuro9988 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Looking at The Last Dance Jordan actually seemed exhausted at the end of '92, the pressure was too much and motivation was going away.
    I personally think that he probably would have lost a championship to get the right motivation

  • @vanguardas9927
    @vanguardas9927 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Meanwhile LeBron is praying he can get at least 1 3peat before his career is over lol (Jordan and Kobe both had 3peats)

    • @ryanpowers3155
      @ryanpowers3155 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      lol kobe had shaq kobe would have 2 chips if shaq didnt come and 1 mvp

    • @vanguardas9927
      @vanguardas9927 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@ryanpowers3155 lebron had wade, bosh, kyrie, love, rose, allen, AD and still sitting on 3 championships...how many all stars does he need to win 5 chips? lol

    • @ryanpowers3155
      @ryanpowers3155 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      yeah but d wade avenged 15pts in 2014 finals and in the 2013 finals he avenged 19pts by 2013 it wasnt a super team and in 2015 kryie and kevin love were injuired and he has had to go aginst the warriors

    • @donniepate7313
      @donniepate7313 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Vanguardas Shaq was the reason for the 3 peat not Kobe.Kobe SUXXED in those playoffs and Finals

    • @miltongarces9475
      @miltongarces9475 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@donniepate7313 spoken like a typical amateur. Stop talking because you sound clueless

  • @lukacalov1988
    @lukacalov1988 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    9 straight*

  • @codeofcodedotorg
    @codeofcodedotorg ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If Jordan never retired, they would never lose Horace Grant. The only guy they had that can guard Shaq.

    • @billsikes4007
      @billsikes4007 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are you saying that Horace Grant could guard Shaq, or did you mean Rodman? I only ask because one of these scenarios is hilariously false.

    • @codeofcodedotorg
      @codeofcodedotorg ปีที่แล้ว

      @@billsikes4007 Horace Grant absolutely could NOT guard Shaq. But he is the only guy that they could put on Shaq without getting absolutely humiliated. Which is all that Jordan would have needed to win those 2 rings in my opinion (if he never retired).

    • @billsikes4007
      @billsikes4007 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@codeofcodedotorg Good news, we don't have to guess. Jordan came back for the end of the 94-95 season without Grant. They never made it to the finals and at that point, Grant was the only one missing. Just think about that for a moment. Jordan is, arguably, the GOAT. He's just not nearly as great as the masses would tell you.

  • @marcoslaureano5562
    @marcoslaureano5562 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What made Mike truly hungry to win that second three peat was getting blown out by the Magic....and Horace didn't leave because Mike retired. He left because he wasn't happy there. They didn't renew his contract and he hated Mike BECAUSE of how hard Mike would ride his teammates. That trouble had been brewing way before Jordan had retired. And don't forget Mike saw Horace as the main "rat" behind "The Jordan Rules" book. Horace was there for the '94 playoff loss. Whether Mike had retired or not, Horace was leaving. The Bulls declined to re-sign him, you forget that.