You found a machine that works better "wrong way"! Unlike some other reviewers, you are not simply a salesman working for commissions. Thanks for all aspects, positive AND negative. Also, appreciate your recent emphasis on safety of design and construction. Wish that was more the norm.
@7:32 I suspect the V11 is more comfortable for you on the street because its inflated to a lower relative pressure than the coil of the S20. The spring they chose on the S20 is ideal to prevent a rider weighing about 165 lbs from bottoming out on extreme jumps.... Ideal for a 165 lbs rider on cobble stone road is a very different spring weight. This is one of the cons of a spring shock: its not easy adjust (minor adjustments can be made, but not major adjustments). I ride my V11 on the street and on trails a lot and I keep the suspension really soft. If I were to drop about 1 foot on my V11 it would bottom out my suspension, but it makes for a super smooth ride on road and on trails when riding about 20 MPH. Unfortunately I cannot jump my V11 or do drops with the suspension like this without bottoming it it out and risking damaging the wheel.
Hey, can you share your weight and what settings you use on the suspension (how much PSI bottom and top) that work well for you? Trying to dial in my own suspension, and particularly interested in yours because I too prefer a soft suspension.
Adam, Thx for this great review. Best out there so far :) To me, seing you video it get pretty obvious why this wheel dosent have a great turning radius. Just think about this... if you simply tilt the wheel on the side like 10 or 20 degree and hold with 1 finger in the middle, it will naturaly want to pivot toward the suspension because it is heavier on the back. This behaviour create a force that actualy oppose the natural turning dirrection when riding. The more you tilt it and the more it will counteract the turning. Riding it in reverse will obviously help the wheel to turn better because the levrage create by the weight of the suspension will tork it in the turn dirrection. Interresting
Ukrainian ks16x rider here, I really appreciate your support. Support of Polish people in general, my wife just crossed the border over to Poland and everyone was super nice! They even gave her a free bun! Hehe. Protests are important as they influence positively EU policy towards Ukraine! I never would expect the support of Europe to be so massive, It's crazy.
I love that you rode it the wrooong way! I immediately angled the pedals down to get more responsiveness out of it. I really like the s20 for trails and jumps but ride it differently than I do my Rs
@@jamesordwayultralightpilot I don't think so, tbh. It's all about the low end torque. CG has nothing to do with traction imo. Just look at the offroad bikes and cars, all super-high machines. Unavoidable with all the clearance issues.
@@monocyc yeah but they don't have only 1 wheel. If you don't have the weight over the centerline but hanging off the front and the wheel is very top heavy there's nothing holding the tread on the ground and the wheel spins. Unless in this case the wheel just cut out instead of spinning then I'm wrong. I just assumed if the hill was sand or mud then the wheel just spun out instead of gripping.
Sorry if I missed it but what was your compression setting and did you change it when moving from pavement to off-road? Other reviews said that can make a big difference.
Latest S20 firmware is 2.15 as well as BMS update 1.12 as installed by our uk tester SpeedyFeetUK on the 1st of March this year. He wasn't too impressed either with the S20 and you share the same points too! Thanks for sharing :) btw.. you should see just how bad the tilt back was on a flat battery that Speedy showed lol.. that thing was almost at 45 degrees tiltback or more!!!!
I feel this wheel is everything we wanted from the s18, if it could be upgraded as far as the battery/suspension. It's a beautiful wheel but not worth 3200+ in my opinion. Will bite the bullet and get the inmotion v12 HT.
Im new to this space. Bought a king song 16x. Dont regret it at all. Even after doing more research. My legs are really sore tho from learning to maneuver it.
@@seewaldsja Leg pain will go away with time, and feet pain will get pushed farther back until it takes 10, 15, 20 ,30, etc. miles to get any foot pain
My commute is 6 miles.I weigh 220lbs at the moment but im feeling motivated to increase my range(lose weight lol). It was like a full body work out the first day.
Thanks for the vid Adam! Dude King Song really needs to fix this torque issue it's just not acceptable for this wheel which is gonna be used in the ways you're using it along with who knows how many other creative ways. Also I haven't seen anyone do this but you can adjust those pedals forward. They're set by default at the back setting. So that could help with some of the issues you mentioned maybe?
To be honest i believe it is the Voltage / Current equation. More cells in series = Higher voltage = higher top speed. More cells in parallel = Higher current output = higher torque. And there is Always a trade off how many cells you can pack in a EUC. The Sherman is impressive, but there is always the value, and weight element to think off.
@@GGnext.crazycro I'm not so sure. The MSP & RS both were using 4P packs with similar cells I believe and they manage to produce tremendous torque. The down side with the 4P pack as I understand it is that you're more likely to damage the cells over time because you'd likely be overdrawing/drawing more current then they can sustainably/safely provide. And KS is not using high output cells as far as I know. I think they're still the LG 50LT.
Praying for your part of our world. Your videos are why I ended up getting my wheel. I have no one here in Kenosha,WI USA to share my EUC love with...yet. My first wheel (V5F) came at the very end of Dec.2021. I have learned it enough inside my house that now I can do counterclockwise circles on the basketball court outside and longest ride so far was about 150 meters on the bike trail at the park. One day I hope to have some sweet gear like you. Keep up the great work, find a joyful subject like teaching children to ride to keep your spirits up, I'd love to watch a video of that!! Peace brother✌️
TedtheAtheist, I'm sorry to find out you have never met anyone for whom God has answered prayer. What wheel do you ride? How do you like it? By the way, I've been married for 29 years to the man I prayed for so yes God does answer prayer. I pray God will show you Mercy and love and bring you to the same faith that I have in the Almighty maker of heaven and earth and his Son Jesus Christ, if it doesn't happen before April 17th this year I'll be surprised💕✌️🕊️
@@HeaveHoEUC WTF is a god? What makes you think prayer works? I ride an EUC, currently the RS HS. What makes you think any god brought you this guy you're married to? How did any god have anything to do with that? You sound severely delusional. You should get some help.
Thanks for your support of Ukraine! I was pleasantly surprised, when I just looked for some EUC reviews to distract from what is happening here and found your channel.
Very nice one, man! Thanks for posting it! It really helps, as I am on the way to select a bigger wheel for myself (riding the RS, it feels nice, but I need something with a longer range - you know how the popular wisdom goes in the dedicated circles, when you are undecided between two wheels, buy them both, hihi). However I don't really see a dip when you are climbing the stairs in your vid, I believe it is the resonance between the "oscillation frequency" of the suspension and that of your body, what throws you off. V11 has the same problem, for example, when you climb slower or faster, everything is fine, but for a certain speed it "resonates" with a higher and higher amplitude, ending up throwing you off (the speed depends on your weight and suspension adjustment, but you always have it). I believe all the "suspended" :P wheels have the same issue. For example, can you try the upstairs test again, with the suspension tightened, or locked? (edit, watching further, when you climb the sandy hill, the oscillation is clearly seen)
11:41 it looks like the balancing/knobby tire interaction makes the wheel oscillate and bounce, and digs the lose ground until there's no grip left. Have you tried medium or soft instead of hard? I get significantly better grip in extreme off-road climbing on the 16X in medium or soft, because the motor control is smoother.
I've had the exact same thing happen multiple times on MSP HT on dirt that wasn't as soft as in this video, you can power through it for a while but the feeling while doing it is very sketchy.
@@mr_wrongway I'm not sure, the Kv rating of this motor is pretty close to a Gotway HT C38 motor: 126V, free spin 105 km/h would be 84 km/h for a 100.8V wheel. Formula: 105/126*100.8 The MSP HT free-spin is 80 km/h. Not much difference.
To be fair, regarding those dirt inclines they seemed very loose and tire lost traction, would seem like you would have the same problem regardless of wheel.
@@Ubeogesh if a wheel bounces it's because the tire bounces against the surface has nothing to do with torque, going fast on an uneven surface can make the tire bounce
I agree with a lot of your thoughts in the video. The wheel when calibrated level definitely needs more user input to get going, it feels like I'm lugging it around rather than being driven by the wheel. I will say though, that as a heavier rider (220lbs now) I LOVE the tire offroad. Here in Washington we get lots of mud and that tire can monster truck through mud that my Sherman would just spin out on, especially uphill in mud. The thick tire gives more surface area in mud but does decrease the turning radius by a surprising amount, even with the high pedals. I also found that when the wheel is recalibrated with a slightly forward lean that many of the annoying issues going away. It does put a bit more strain on my knees but the wheel is much more responsive in turning and acceleration. I'm with you on the suspension though, it absorbs big bumps, but on little bumps or bumps in succession it's still not that great. For me it's hard to tell the difference between hard and soft compression or full / zero rebound, it all just sort of feels the same, change is very subtle. The wheel is an excellent mid speed cruiser (35mph or so), with the suspension and super wide tire it gives me a lot of confidence. I rode through the beeps up to 75kph today, freespin on the latest firmware is 103kph, I think that's about as fast as I'm going to try going on it after watching how easily you overpowered it on the stairs uphill. Like you said, it's an excellent wheel for most people, but for tricksters or technical riding there are better choices (though they do lack suspension). I'm looking forward to trying out the Begode Master, it seems like the best of both worlds.
I was wondering the same as Justinas. It looked like you were going up these stairs incomparably faster than with any previous wheel, and that's a lot of peak torque demand at each step.
I’ve heard multiple people saying the wheel doesn’t have a lot of torque. I was really hopeful it was at least as powerful as an RS ht. Plus it doesn’t have 100% of its power from a stop, which I would totally need if doing technical trail riding. I think I’m going to pass on this wheel. I was hoping to have a wheel that would be like my dirt bikes.
It couldn't technically have as much torque as a 100V HT wheel as those motors have biggers magnets and more windings in the motor which produces more torque but sacrifices speed. The Master looks like the first HT wheel that also has high speed but personally I'm skeptical towards the Begode's suspension system as I think it might be prone to rusting or mechanical breakdown as hinted by Ecodrift Hero tear-down.
Love your videos! You are the only TH-camr who really puts the wheels through their paces and can therefore honestly address all weaknesses. Your driving style is similar to mine, although because I live in Germany I often drive very carefully.
I remember the same thing happening on multiple older wheels when driving a longer time over cobblestones. It would just start dipping.... Maybe you could try that? 6:58... answered that. And maybe you could play a bit around with the suspension settings for the full review. Maybe adjusting it solves the pedal clearance.
My friend finally escaped from Ukraine and he is traumatized by the terror that he has seen and experienced. He lost 16kg in one week and now he is recovering. Prayers to all Ukrainian and other folk who are stuck in there. 💙💛
No one cares. You want to talk about this - go to some political videos. Why you people make other people to be involved in your problem? As far as I now, Ukrainian government told that Ukraine has strongest army on the continent and took a lot of taxes for it, as well as millions of dollars from donations. And it turns that Ukraine is actually defenseless when it comes to fight with other army and not the civilians on Donbass, as they used to on daily basis.
@@familytvbox5218 "You want to talk about this - go to some political videos" There, in your own words. Then you continue talking about politics... If you don't want to talk about politics, than why are you talking about it??? His friend escaped death. You can at least say that it's good he's alive. I'm so sorry that people are actually taking side of the victims in this war and you can't take it.
I am curious about the motor noise. Could this be "ripple-torque"? I recall a similar noise when climbing on the first version of VSherman. After a firmware update that took off some of the max speed but provided higher torque on low speed it seems that solved the problem. My guess is that with higher wheel diameter, we can expect more more difficulties for the motor to deliver high torque. Just like lifting something with your arms extended rather than close to your chest. You have to invest higher effort to achieve the same result. Way the most in-depth and fair review so far. Many thanks Adam
@JM Coulon Avec un bon pneu, la S18 est efficace en offroad, malgré la faible autonomie, mais elle est légère. Gageons que Kingsong nous fasse une 16 pouces suspendue avec 1500/1800 Wh à moins de 30 kg !
SherMax probably, but not sure if constant 70 km/h is even possible, it definitely is not advised. Some people forget that this is a 40 kg, one wheeled, electronic vehicle not a car and not on par with a 10.000+ $ motorbike.. get the fck real.
have you tried different pedal heights? It was pretty big difference during our testing between the lowest and the highest one in terms of wheel behavior. Also interesting why e.g. speedy feet loves riding this wheel a lot and you basically not at all. S18 initial hate followed love relationship happens again? 😁
@Jan Schejbal Like Adam mentioned it IS a fun wheel, but it is also important to be consider various aspects like range, torque, wheel, durability etc. And overall, while being a definite improvement to the S18, it is pretty mediocre at this price point.
@@TedTheAtheist during our testing for most riders it was a huge difference. Because the height is not only about pedals but you basically adjust wheel itself so all the batteries mass is balanced in a different way.
Kinda let down by kingsong's s20, I hope inmotion makes their v13 as sexy as their v11 and as customizable as their v12. That would be a dream and I hope inmotion stalks your channel's comment section and reads this.
I think the V12 looked WAY better than that strange V11.. just putting it out there. They definitely need to fix their electronics/wiring in the future V13
I have a feeling that they use software to restrict the power of S20. They allowed eevee to unlock the wheel after all..Same deal with the maximum speed of only 43.5 mph..3300 W motor should be able to climb much better than this. There are many videos of S20 climbing steep hills, I wonder are unlocked or what.. Did you adjust the knobs for the weight and terrain that you want to ride in?
@victor91 lmao, as if wheels will become any cheaper from now on... the tech possibilities rise and create a demand for greedy/needy consumers, the batteries will only get more expensive, production and energy prices as well. Just buy an used EUC..
Thank you Adam 👍 🙏🏻 thank God I haven't placing an order yes ... do not sound an look good for my spending at the moment 🤔 shall I get inmotion v11 after all Adam?
I seems like the motor is over matched for the battery and/or motherboard, or the programming is regulating the power. However when you rode it “backwards” it looked much more solid and responsive. I think your observation about the balance was correct. Great review!
For the short time I spent actually riding it, the s20 felt fantastic to me but I don't have anywhere near your experience so I really appreciate your educated critique. Either way I can't wait to spend more time on this thing.
Fantastic. I'd like to see a short clip made of this wheel with the camera on the side to show the uneven forward and backward weight distribution. How far forward does it have to be to be naturally balanced. Early pre release videos of s20 showed it climbing rockfaces. The way you show it on off-road dirt hills rides like a Sherman. Excited to see more.
@@omidel. this is basically the production version. They've already shipped 40 wheels to eWheels and I'd be willing to bet they're building more S20s as we speak.
Were you on the latest firmware during those hill and stair tests? Slightly worrying. Hopefully KS can work the kinks out for production and later batches.
Wrong Way the problem of balancing, these because of a bad calibration of the gyro? could a shift remove this problem? or is this really a design issue?
Great info and video Adam, I was so hyped for the S20 but after demo day and your video I've given up my idea ( even so am a big fan of Kingson) of buying the S20 and will keep my K16X as committing EUC and bought the Begote EXN the High torque version for group rides. Looking at the HERO in the future when they update the batteries or make them a bit bigger. Best regards Mr Wrong Way, keep up the good work and have lots of fun doing so.
Really cool video! Thanks for the shootout to Ukraine. Great cinematography with the 360 camera and awesome voiceover with all the details that paint a detailed picture of how this wheel performs in real life situations. You got me to subscribe right away. Nice music too by the way!
Exactly how i expect 3300w(but speed oriented), now last review i waiting is Sherman MAX . This season i propably stay with MSP2500W(best world power/weight ratio) and Sherman V2 (best range/build quality cruiser) and 16x like convience king
There should be a Sports Mode in the app to turn up the torque which would of course shorten the range. I think it was designed to get more range from the 2200 battery.
Thanks for these more riding-focused footage videos, Adam. Really helps to make a decision on which wheel might fit one's needs. When a wheel works better backwards.. engineers/designers these days.. Not gonna lie, from a 2200Wh range wheel in 2022 I expected better technical riding and stair climbing capabilities. What good does speed and high wattage if you neither have tons of torque OR range?
Wow, what an interesting review. Loads of people now rushing out to ride this wheel backwards to see what they think. Surprised you didn't find it more comfortable than the S18, maybe you need a softer spring for your weight.
Wg mnie, pomimo obiektywnych trudności dla każdego Homo sapiens (utrzymanie równowagi we wszystkich kierunkach) takie monocykle to świetna sprawa i będę musiał sobie kupić jak tylko się ogarnę. Robisz świetną robotę. Mega pozdro! 👍
ja ze swoim pokrzywionym kręgosłupem i kiepską równowagą i przez to i parę innych rzeczy niby daję radę . raczej do poziomu tego z filmu nie dotrę . w sumie to nie potrzebuję nawet . ale skateparki kuszą :D chociaż wolę się wywalić na trawniku .
@@mr_wrongway Did you know that different springs are available ? 500,750 and 1000lb. You might need the 500lb spring for your weight. 750lb is what it has now.
Evidently these are your first impressions of the S20. I would like you to change the suspension adjustment, as well as tire calibration. I believe that there is a time for adaptation and evolution in the understanding of the machine. I think changing tires is also an interesting experience. How about an air suspension instead of a spring one?
try to point your outer leg knee to the direction of the turn a bit more aggressively. forward and to the direction of the turn, like in skiing. I believe it will work
Thank you for such realistic review and sharing your feeling! Now it is more clear for me, S20 is not that wheel which would satisfy my wishes, expectations were much higher.
Almost sold an rs19hs until i contacted ewheels and found out they suspended sales or them. Inner shell screw post are coming out broken out of the box.👎 going to have to think long and hard about rolling the quality dice on my first begode wheel
@@noelleonard2498 unfortunately you will be rolling the dice on any wheel that you get. They all come from China 🙂 The best you can do is buy from a seller that backs up the warranty.
que rueda con suspensión me recomiendas comprar 2022 ?? Pensaba que esta era la mejor del mercado. Alguien me puede hacer un resumen de como esta el mercado a dia de hoy, cuales son las ruedas top y recomendable
If weight is a concern, the S-18 is the lightest and cheapest, otherwise, my money is on Begode. Kingsong has now renamed the S-20, becoming the S-22 after the battery fix. Do we need to put Begode electronics in the S-20 frame? Safety features become a problem when the result is uncommanded responses from the wheel that are a surprise for the rider. The S-18 had a superior design, but the first batch had suspension bearings that were crudely installed ruining the experience for the rider.
Só I know that evx isn't much of a great reviewer and is more of a film maker. But it serves as an example that he said braking was crap but you say it's good? I don't know what to believe right now, these reviews seem all over the place and no consensus on it. Besides the torque and battery I guess
evX is a high speed street rider. If you see how he was braking it was pretty extreme from 30mph and he was making direct comparisons, quite rightly with other performance wheels. The fact is as a high voltage wheel people were expecting more torque and those concerns from evX were enough for him to shy away from an acceleration test.
I recommend people check out Eevees channel for a much more in-depth review and opinions from 100s of average riders instead of trusting this one "influencer". Adam after you flip-flopped on the V11 (it was good.. then it was bad when you didn't know how to fix it.. then it was good again when someone fixed it for you) I don't really trust your opinion of the S20. As specially when you are reporting the opposite of everyone else. Eevees took it to a bunch of cities and tested it literally 100x more than you did, they've posted demo feedback from dozens and dozens of riders and it is almost entirely positive. Also, every other reviewer on TH-cam so far has given it very high marks. I suspect your problems are unique to the DEMO UNIT you received, or perhaps this is once again due to you not knowing the wheel very well (how to set up the suspension properly, etc) or perhaps you are bitter again because you're not being sent one for free? 🤷♀
I also find WrongWay reviewer Adam to be one of the best independent opinion makers in the EUC community , not only because he's been providing invaluable in-depth testing results and reviews, but also because he's been consistently doing this job for quite some years now, whereas other reviewers have progressively gone off the radar. Thanks for that. The off-road riding findings of his current KS S20 review are somewhat disappointing, especially relative to the big hype and expectations of this long-awaited wheel yet I'm curious to see them repeated in the future after potential improvements / new versions of it (another kind of tire? tweaked torque? better weight distribution?). (BTW, Slava Ukrayni!)
This is one of the main reasons I still haven't upgraded my MSP HT. As a larger guy, I can't see upgrading to something with less torque. Also, I never ride over 30mph anyways 🤷♂️
You found a machine that works better "wrong way"!
Unlike some other reviewers, you are not simply a salesman working for commissions. Thanks for all aspects, positive AND negative.
Also, appreciate your recent emphasis on safety of design and construction. Wish that was more the norm.
@7:32 I suspect the V11 is more comfortable for you on the street because its inflated to a lower relative pressure than the coil of the S20. The spring they chose on the S20 is ideal to prevent a rider weighing about 165 lbs from bottoming out on extreme jumps.... Ideal for a 165 lbs rider on cobble stone road is a very different spring weight. This is one of the cons of a spring shock: its not easy adjust (minor adjustments can be made, but not major adjustments). I ride my V11 on the street and on trails a lot and I keep the suspension really soft. If I were to drop about 1 foot on my V11 it would bottom out my suspension, but it makes for a super smooth ride on road and on trails when riding about 20 MPH. Unfortunately I cannot jump my V11 or do drops with the suspension like this without bottoming it it out and risking damaging the wheel.
Hey, can you share your weight and what settings you use on the suspension (how much PSI bottom and top) that work well for you? Trying to dial in my own suspension, and particularly interested in yours because I too prefer a soft suspension.
Adam, Thx for this great review. Best out there so far :)
To me, seing you video it get pretty obvious why this wheel dosent have a great turning radius. Just think about this... if you simply tilt the wheel on the side like 10 or 20 degree and hold with 1 finger in the middle, it will naturaly want to pivot toward the suspension because it is heavier on the back. This behaviour create a force that actualy oppose the natural turning dirrection when riding. The more you tilt it and the more it will counteract the turning. Riding it in reverse will obviously help the wheel to turn better because the levrage create by the weight of the suspension will tork it in the turn dirrection.
Interresting
Genius!! That makes perfect sense. Thanks for putting that out there
Ukrainian ks16x rider here, I really appreciate your support. Support of Polish people in general, my wife just crossed the border over to Poland and everyone was super nice! They even gave her a free bun! Hehe. Protests are important as they influence positively EU policy towards Ukraine! I never would expect the support of Europe to be so massive, It's crazy.
Stop propagandizing everywhere, it's the euc chanel
@@TheMarkAvreliy have fun in after sanction Russia
It is not propaganda, if it is true.
FCK PTN for invading sovereign ukraine and murdering for "no reason", but his own twisted ambitions.
All the best for ucranian ppl!!! The war must enf
@@privileguan9127 where did u seen truth? And u didn't seen truth last 9 years when Lugansk people were massacred?
I love that you rode it the wrooong way! I immediately angled the pedals down to get more responsiveness out of it. I really like the s20 for trails and jumps but ride it differently than I do my Rs
How do you ride it differently? I currently have an RS HS.
I do wonder what you would go with between the Rs Ht or the S20 if you only had one choice
@@allysally9992 I think I'm going to get the Sherman Max. RS HS will become my backup.
The offroad hill climb problem was just from very soft ground. Try it again when the ground is frozen or hard packed. Thanks for your review!
Yeah I got a knobby tire and it's a blast when the ground is frozen. Plus I love the peace of mind knowing I'm not getting my wheel all muddy lol
That was the point. Commander HT, RS HT, Monster V3 simply charge through the sandy hills.
@@monocyc I guess it proves higher CG leading to less traction.
@@jamesordwayultralightpilot I don't think so, tbh. It's all about the low end torque. CG has nothing to do with traction imo. Just look at the offroad bikes and cars, all super-high machines. Unavoidable with all the clearance issues.
@@monocyc yeah but they don't have only 1 wheel. If you don't have the weight over the centerline but hanging off the front and the wheel is very top heavy there's nothing holding the tread on the ground and the wheel spins. Unless in this case the wheel just cut out instead of spinning then I'm wrong. I just assumed if the hill was sand or mud then the wheel just spun out instead of gripping.
How would you compare this EUC to the v11?
Sorry if I missed it but what was your compression setting and did you change it when moving from pavement to off-road? Other reviews said that can make a big difference.
Latest S20 firmware is 2.15 as well as BMS update 1.12 as installed by our uk tester SpeedyFeetUK on the 1st of March this year. He wasn't too impressed either with the S20 and you share the same points too! Thanks for sharing :) btw.. you should see just how bad the tilt back was on a flat battery that Speedy showed lol.. that thing was almost at 45 degrees tiltback or more!!!!
Sounds like we need to wait for gen 2 and no software update can fix its issues?
I feel this wheel is everything we wanted from the s18, if it could be upgraded as far as the battery/suspension. It's a beautiful wheel but not worth 3200+ in my opinion. Will bite the bullet and get the inmotion v12 HT.
Im new to this space. Bought a king song 16x. Dont regret it at all. Even after doing more research. My legs are really sore tho from learning to maneuver it.
@@seewaldsja pretty soon you won't be sore anymore. You'll be able to ride so far your legs and feet go numb lol.
@@seewaldsja Leg pain will go away with time, and feet pain will get pushed farther back until it takes 10, 15, 20 ,30, etc. miles to get any foot pain
My commute is 6 miles.I weigh 220lbs at the moment but im feeling motivated to increase my range(lose weight lol). It was like a full body work out the first day.
@@seewaldsja oh yah the first day I hurt bad. Lol. My back and my legs, cuz I kept falling off repeatedly for 3 hours
So you prefer the sherman knobby over the s20 knobby?
Yes
Merci Adam !
It's always fun to watch your videos. And with those of Raphaël, we have all the good info.
Thanks for the vid Adam! Dude King Song really needs to fix this torque issue it's just not acceptable for this wheel which is gonna be used in the ways you're using it along with who knows how many other creative ways. Also I haven't seen anyone do this but you can adjust those pedals forward. They're set by default at the back setting. So that could help with some of the issues you mentioned maybe?
To be honest i believe it is the Voltage / Current equation.
More cells in series = Higher voltage = higher top speed.
More cells in parallel = Higher current output = higher torque.
And there is Always a trade off how many cells you can pack in a EUC.
The Sherman is impressive, but there is always the value, and weight element to think off.
@@GGnext.crazycro kingsong said that they limited current for the safety of mosfets, so they don't burn out
@@GGnext.crazycro I'm not so sure. The MSP & RS both were using 4P packs with similar cells I believe and they manage to produce tremendous torque. The down side with the 4P pack as I understand it is that you're more likely to damage the cells over time because you'd likely be overdrawing/drawing more current then they can sustainably/safely provide. And KS is not using high output cells as far as I know. I think they're still the LG 50LT.
That's what the 24 MOSFET Master is for lol
Praying for your part of our world. Your videos are why I ended up getting my wheel. I have no one here in Kenosha,WI USA to share my EUC love with...yet. My first wheel (V5F) came at the very end of Dec.2021. I have learned it enough inside my house that now I can do counterclockwise circles on the basketball court outside and longest ride so far was about 150 meters on the bike trail at the park. One day I hope to have some sweet gear like you. Keep up the great work, find a joyful subject like teaching children to ride to keep your spirits up, I'd love to watch a video of that!! Peace brother✌️
Praying doesn't do anything, so you're actually doing jack. You want to sound like you're doing something, but you're really not.
@TedTheAtheist
too harsh, dude. Even though I'd agree on the part that praying won't help anyone but yourself.
@@privileguan9127 It's good to be harsh sometimes. And I don't think it even helps the person.
TedtheAtheist, I'm sorry to find out you have never met anyone for whom God has answered prayer. What wheel do you ride? How do you like it? By the way, I've been married for 29 years to the man I prayed for so yes God does answer prayer. I pray God will show you Mercy and love and bring you to the same faith that I have in the Almighty maker of heaven and earth and his Son Jesus Christ, if it doesn't happen before April 17th this year I'll be surprised💕✌️🕊️
@@HeaveHoEUC WTF is a god? What makes you think prayer works? I ride an EUC, currently the RS HS. What makes you think any god brought you this guy you're married to? How did any god have anything to do with that? You sound severely delusional. You should get some help.
Thanks for your support of Ukraine!
I was pleasantly surprised, when I just looked for some EUC reviews to distract from what is happening here and found your channel.
Very nice one, man! Thanks for posting it! It really helps, as I am on the way to select a bigger wheel for myself (riding the RS, it feels nice, but I need something with a longer range - you know how the popular wisdom goes in the dedicated circles, when you are undecided between two wheels, buy them both, hihi). However I don't really see a dip when you are climbing the stairs in your vid, I believe it is the resonance between the "oscillation frequency" of the suspension and that of your body, what throws you off. V11 has the same problem, for example, when you climb slower or faster, everything is fine, but for a certain speed it "resonates" with a higher and higher amplitude, ending up throwing you off (the speed depends on your weight and suspension adjustment, but you always have it). I believe all the "suspended" :P wheels have the same issue. For example, can you try the upstairs test again, with the suspension tightened, or locked? (edit, watching further, when you climb the sandy hill, the oscillation is clearly seen)
11:41 it looks like the balancing/knobby tire interaction makes the wheel oscillate and bounce, and digs the lose ground until there's no grip left.
Have you tried medium or soft instead of hard?
I get significantly better grip in extreme off-road climbing on the 16X in medium or soft, because the motor control is smoother.
I've had the exact same thing happen multiple times on MSP HT on dirt that wasn't as soft as in this video, you can power through it for a while but the feeling while doing it is very sketchy.
Yes I tried medium. Same result. Motor is too HS for this wheel
@@mr_wrongway I'm not sure, the Kv rating of this motor is pretty close to a Gotway HT C38 motor:
126V, free spin 105 km/h would be 84 km/h for a 100.8V wheel.
Formula: 105/126*100.8
The MSP HT free-spin is 80 km/h. Not much difference.
To be fair, regarding those dirt inclines they seemed very loose and tire lost traction, would seem like you would have the same problem regardless of wheel.
As mentioned in the video I’ll check it again on a different wheel to be 100% sure. However when climbing hills usually it was as powerful as Sherman
it lost traction because the wheel was bouncing up and down because of uneven torque
@@Ubeogesh uneven torque, lol that's a new one
@@RonnieRides sorry I might have some language issue here, i hope you can understand what i mean.
@@Ubeogesh if a wheel bounces it's because the tire bounces against the surface has nothing to do with torque, going fast on an uneven surface can make the tire bounce
I agree with a lot of your thoughts in the video. The wheel when calibrated level definitely needs more user input to get going, it feels like I'm lugging it around rather than being driven by the wheel. I will say though, that as a heavier rider (220lbs now) I LOVE the tire offroad. Here in Washington we get lots of mud and that tire can monster truck through mud that my Sherman would just spin out on, especially uphill in mud. The thick tire gives more surface area in mud but does decrease the turning radius by a surprising amount, even with the high pedals. I also found that when the wheel is recalibrated with a slightly forward lean that many of the annoying issues going away. It does put a bit more strain on my knees but the wheel is much more responsive in turning and acceleration. I'm with you on the suspension though, it absorbs big bumps, but on little bumps or bumps in succession it's still not that great. For me it's hard to tell the difference between hard and soft compression or full / zero rebound, it all just sort of feels the same, change is very subtle. The wheel is an excellent mid speed cruiser (35mph or so), with the suspension and super wide tire it gives me a lot of confidence. I rode through the beeps up to 75kph today, freespin on the latest firmware is 103kph, I think that's about as fast as I'm going to try going on it after watching how easily you overpowered it on the stairs uphill. Like you said, it's an excellent wheel for most people, but for tricksters or technical riding there are better choices (though they do lack suspension). I'm looking forward to trying out the Begode Master, it seems like the best of both worlds.
I'm more comfortable in soft mode, It helps a lot, can't wait to see the final version of this wheel
Could this pedal dipping while going upstairs be just you turning the wheel over a bit while mid-air? The suspension seems to jump you up a little.
No that’s not the case. It’s while the tire touches the ground
I was wondering the same as Justinas.
It looked like you were going up these stairs incomparably faster than with any previous wheel, and that's a lot of peak torque demand at each step.
I’ve heard multiple people saying the wheel doesn’t have a lot of torque. I was really hopeful it was at least as powerful as an RS ht. Plus it doesn’t have 100% of its power from a stop, which I would totally need if doing technical trail riding. I think I’m going to pass on this wheel. I was hoping to have a wheel that would be like my dirt bikes.
It couldn't technically have as much torque as a 100V HT wheel as those motors have biggers magnets and more windings in the motor which produces more torque but sacrifices speed. The Master looks like the first HT wheel that also has high speed but personally I'm skeptical towards the Begode's suspension system as I think it might be prone to rusting or mechanical breakdown as hinted by Ecodrift Hero tear-down.
Begode has to suffer from near death, before their mentality will change and they start producing safe, durable wheels.
Love your videos! You are the only TH-camr who really puts the wheels through their paces and can therefore honestly address all weaknesses. Your driving style is similar to mine, although because I live in Germany I often drive very carefully.
High torque is important in Germany to escape the preying police..
Keep the dream alive, even if they threaten and blackmail you.
Good luck.
126v seems a dud/overhyped on this wheel. I guess it’s the Begode Master for me.
V13 is better skip the master
@@Kay0Bot no bro, wait for the V14
Just train hard and use your feet..
unlimited range and better torque than Shitgode or Inmotion.
Good review mate. Very comprehensive. Stay safe.
I remember the same thing happening on multiple older wheels when driving a longer time over cobblestones.
It would just start dipping....
Maybe you could try that? 6:58... answered that.
And maybe you could play a bit around with the suspension settings for the full review.
Maybe adjusting it solves the pedal clearance.
My friend finally escaped from Ukraine and he is traumatized by the terror that he has seen and experienced. He lost 16kg in one week and now he is recovering. Prayers to all Ukrainian and other folk who are stuck in there. 💙💛
Glad he survived. Where is he now?
@@rhalfik Turkey, safe with his family
No one cares.
You want to talk about this - go to some political videos. Why you people make other people to be involved in your problem?
As far as I now, Ukrainian government told that Ukraine has strongest army on the continent and took a lot of taxes for it, as well as millions of dollars from donations. And it turns that Ukraine is actually defenseless when it comes to fight with other army and not the civilians on Donbass, as they used to on daily basis.
@@familytvbox5218 they have massive corruption in the government that is why..
@@familytvbox5218 "You want to talk about this - go to some political videos" There, in your own words. Then you continue talking about politics... If you don't want to talk about politics, than why are you talking about it???
His friend escaped death. You can at least say that it's good he's alive. I'm so sorry that people are actually taking side of the victims in this war and you can't take it.
I am curious about the motor noise. Could this be "ripple-torque"? I recall a similar noise when climbing on the first version of VSherman. After a firmware update that took off some of the max speed but provided higher torque on low speed it seems that solved the problem. My guess is that with higher wheel diameter, we can expect more more difficulties for the motor to deliver high torque. Just like lifting something with your arms extended rather than close to your chest. You have to invest higher effort to achieve the same result. Way the most in-depth and fair review so far. Many thanks Adam
First ! Awesome vid!
I hope the lack of torque gets fixed.
But what firmware is on that s20 being tested?
Newest one both BMS and Board. I think 1.10 and 1.15
Your experience on so many wheels highlights different points for us all to consider, thank you.
How its torque compared to veteran sherman ?
Torque is similar or a tad worse. Especially when battery level gets lower I feel like the s20 loses. It will run cooler though
@JM Coulon Avec un bon pneu, la S18 est efficace en offroad, malgré la faible autonomie, mais elle est légère. Gageons que Kingsong nous fasse une 16 pouces suspendue avec 1500/1800 Wh à moins de 30 kg !
@@mr_wrongway thanks. So basically pointless wheel next to abrams 🙂
Great vid Adam! What's the best wheel you can buy now when you want a top speed of 70 km/h but the most range possible? Is it still the Sherman?
SherMax probably, but not sure if constant 70 km/h is even possible, it definitely is not advised.
Some people forget that this is a 40 kg, one wheeled, electronic vehicle not a car and not on par with a 10.000+ $ motorbike.. get the fck real.
Your videos are awesome Adam! When you say you set your pedals at -1.5 do you mean the gyro settings? Thank You!
So you seem to like the V12 better than the eagle ?
have you tried different pedal heights? It was pretty big difference during our testing between the lowest and the highest one in terms of wheel behavior. Also interesting why e.g. speedy feet loves riding this wheel a lot and you basically not at all. S18 initial hate followed love relationship happens again? 😁
Is it better to have the pedals higher? And is it good to tilt the pedals forward a bit?
@Jan Schejbal
Like Adam mentioned it IS a fun wheel, but it is also important to be consider various aspects like range, torque, wheel, durability etc.
And overall, while being a definite improvement to the S18, it is pretty mediocre at this price point.
@@TedTheAtheist during our testing for most riders it was a huge difference. Because the height is not only about pedals but you basically adjust wheel itself so all the batteries mass is balanced in a different way.
Kinda let down by kingsong's s20, I hope inmotion makes their v13 as sexy as their v11 and as customizable as their v12. That would be a dream and I hope inmotion stalks your channel's comment section and reads this.
I think the V12 looked WAY better than that strange V11.. just putting it out there.
They definitely need to fix their electronics/wiring in the future V13
I have a feeling that they use software to restrict the power of S20. They allowed eevee to unlock the wheel after all..Same deal with the maximum speed of only 43.5 mph..3300 W motor should be able to climb much better than this. There are many videos of S20 climbing steep hills, I wonder are unlocked or what..
Did you adjust the knobs for the weight and terrain that you want to ride in?
For me, it's the price! It is sooo expensive! Waiting for inmotion 13 or 12 HT hopefully they don't make it that expensive
@victor91
lmao, as if wheels will become any cheaper from now on...
the tech possibilities rise and create a demand for greedy/needy consumers, the batteries will only get more expensive, production and energy prices as well.
Just buy an used EUC..
Nothing is going to be cheaper in the future
Thank you Adam 👍 🙏🏻 thank God I haven't placing an order yes ... do not sound an look good for my spending at the moment 🤔 shall I get inmotion v11 after all Adam?
16:11 haha now i know why you are called wrong way! lol good video man. Still not sold on this wheel 100 percent yet.
the 2 minutes "legs on" i had with the wheel i didn't notice an issue with the turning radius
I seems like the motor is over matched for the battery and/or motherboard, or the programming is regulating the power. However when you rode it “backwards” it looked much more solid and responsive. I think your observation about the balance was correct. Great review!
For the short time I spent actually riding it, the s20 felt fantastic to me but I don't have anywhere near your experience so I really appreciate your educated critique.
Either way I can't wait to spend more time on this thing.
Fantastic.
I'd like to see a short clip made of this wheel with the camera on the side to show the uneven forward and backward weight distribution. How far forward does it have to be to be naturally balanced.
Early pre release videos of s20 showed it climbing rockfaces. The way you show it on off-road dirt hills rides like a Sherman.
Excited to see more.
Come on Adam , leaves/wet leaves is the lowest amount of traction of any surface , other than perhaps black ice!
Switching my pre-order to the master, thanks for the great review! With all the seemingly false hype on this wheel, we really needed this video…
I suggest your trying it on Pumptrack or offroad it is a king there! For typical riding I would not recommend any suspension wheel. Just my opinion.
This is preproduction unit..just wait for final.version.
@@omidel. this is basically the production version. They've already shipped 40 wheels to eWheels and I'd be willing to bet they're building more S20s as we speak.
The torque just doesn’t seem to be there for a 3300w 126v wheel that was supposed to be a game changer 🤷
@@matthewgameroff2344 The game change is in quality:))
Were you on the latest firmware during those hill and stair tests? Slightly worrying. Hopefully KS can work the kinks out for production and later batches.
Wrong Way the problem of balancing, these because of a bad calibration of the gyro? could a shift remove this problem? or is this really a design issue?
How does the monthly on ewheel?
When the monthly is over what are my options?
I need more info please
Got a msp and seeing safety pedal dips just makes no say no. Do this have the half power at 50% too?
Great info and video Adam, I was so hyped for the S20 but after demo day and your video I've given up my idea ( even so am a big fan of Kingson) of buying the S20 and will keep my K16X as committing EUC and bought the Begote EXN the High torque version for group rides. Looking at the HERO in the future when they update the batteries or make them a bit bigger. Best regards Mr Wrong Way, keep up the good work and have lots of fun doing so.
Look into the Sherman Max. Better than supporting Shitgode and fueling their dumpster fires.
Really cool video! Thanks for the shootout to Ukraine.
Great cinematography with the 360 camera and awesome voiceover with all the details that paint a detailed picture of how this wheel performs in real life situations. You got me to subscribe right away.
Nice music too by the way!
Exactly how i expect 3300w(but speed oriented), now last review i waiting is Sherman MAX .
This season i propably stay with MSP2500W(best world power/weight ratio) and Sherman V2 (best range/build quality cruiser) and 16x like convience king
There should be a Sports Mode in the app to turn up the torque which would of course shorten the range. I think it was designed to get more range from the 2200 battery.
Thanks for these more riding-focused footage videos, Adam. Really helps to make a decision on which wheel might fit one's needs.
When a wheel works better backwards.. engineers/designers these days..
Not gonna lie, from a 2200Wh range wheel in 2022 I expected better technical riding and stair climbing capabilities. What good does speed and high wattage if you neither have tons of torque OR range?
Thank you for another very honest review
I'm wondering how accessible this wheel is for maintenance and repairs, as opposed to the v11.
Teardown coming tomorrow!
The s20 defense team is out in full force 🤣 it's never the wheel for them, but the reviewer when something negative is said about this wheel.
It’s a real job Adam.
Nice vid
What wheel would you recommend for a guy pushing 260 on weight
Sherman, Sherman Max, Monster Pro.
I'm also 260 and a V11 is perfect for me.
We heavy folk will always lose 20% of performance of EUC. So more battery size the better
Great video! Great commentary! Please make more! You're awesome!
I, it seem that this wheel is not the best for off road, witch one do
you recomande insted?
what do you mean by headroom at @ 3:35? how does headroom relate to acceleration?
It means that it has power reserves for if you want to accelerate stronger
Thanks Adam, besides being a great rider, you're a good soul.
Wow, what an interesting review. Loads of people now rushing out to ride this wheel backwards to see what they think. Surprised you didn't find it more comfortable than the S18, maybe you need a softer spring for your weight.
Wg mnie, pomimo obiektywnych trudności dla każdego Homo sapiens (utrzymanie równowagi we wszystkich kierunkach) takie monocykle to świetna sprawa i będę musiał sobie kupić jak tylko się ogarnę.
Robisz świetną robotę.
Mega pozdro!
👍
ja ze swoim pokrzywionym kręgosłupem i kiepską równowagą i przez to i parę innych rzeczy niby daję radę . raczej do poziomu tego z filmu nie dotrę . w sumie to nie potrzebuję nawet . ale skateparki kuszą :D chociaż wolę się wywalić na trawniku .
Did you adjust your suspension ride height?
Did you try to play with the suspension adjustment knobs at all?
Yes. In the vid compression is fully open and just a tad slower rebound. Tried other settings too
@@mr_wrongway Did you know that different springs are available ? 500,750 and 1000lb. You might need the 500lb spring for your weight. 750lb is what it has now.
Thx for vid - how about breaking when seated? Thx
Evidently these are your first impressions of the S20. I would like you to change the suspension adjustment, as well as tire calibration. I believe that there is a time for adaptation and evolution in the understanding of the machine. I think changing tires is also an interesting experience. How about an air suspension instead of a spring one?
Serious question: will they take your comments and do some engineering corrections? or that's it, no chance for any mods?
I did one of those tight turns where you do a hard lean away from the wheel. I was like, “I did a WrongWay!!” 😄👍🏾
try to point your outer leg knee to the direction of the turn a bit more aggressively. forward and to the direction of the turn, like in skiing. I believe it will work
This wheel seems have only one thing right. The idea of suspension.
Great discussion on how it felt riding - keep up the great work - looking for a wheel that can beat my Sherman on every spec plus has suspension 💪🏻😎👍
You are the best. Thanks, once again.
Thank you for such realistic review and sharing your feeling! Now it is more clear for me, S20 is not that wheel which would satisfy my wishes, expectations were much higher.
Did King Song fix these issues on the newest release?
It's still pre production, got to wait until they fix all the kinks.
Appreciate the input I was full fledged on buying this thing but you turned me away to something more!! Thanks man!
Sherman max or s20?
You just sold a lot of Master’s 🤤
😂
Almost sold an rs19hs until i contacted ewheels and found out they suspended sales or them. Inner shell screw post are coming out broken out of the box.👎 going to have to think long and hard about rolling the quality dice on my first begode wheel
@@noelleonard2498 unfortunately you will be rolling the dice on any wheel that you get. They all come from China 🙂 The best you can do is buy from a seller that backs up the warranty.
Cancelled my pre order. I do not need to spend that much for what I use the wheel for. Can't justify, even if I have the money. V11 will be fine
I think 360 One X2 is serving your needs very well. You can consider ditching the GoPro. I somehow prefer the X2 footages much more than GoPro's.
wow man it´s hard lagging driving uphill xD i think i will reconsider my buy decision..
nice vid thx for producing
que rueda con suspensión me recomiendas comprar 2022 ?? Pensaba que esta era la mejor del mercado. Alguien me puede hacer un resumen de como esta el mercado a dia de hoy, cuales son las ruedas top y recomendable
“It does also has a thick and hard compound, that’s what she said...” hahahaha I was not expecting that
Finally some decent comments instead of sugarcoating it moving my pre-order to the master
V13 is better skip the master
@@Kay0Bot Lol There are still cut outs happening with the V12 over bad mosfits
:-) first batch wheels...... I know Begode always get it right, right out of the box.
@@Kay0Bot yeah even know nothing but rumors have been out about it okay LOL
@@Roskellan as well as a bunch of broken pieces out of the box as well
If weight is a concern, the S-18 is the lightest and cheapest, otherwise, my money is on Begode. Kingsong has now renamed the S-20, becoming the S-22 after the battery fix. Do we need to put Begode electronics in the S-20 frame? Safety features become a problem when the result is uncommanded responses from the wheel that are a surprise for the rider. The S-18 had a superior design, but the first batch had suspension bearings that were crudely installed ruining the experience for the rider.
Só I know that evx isn't much of a great reviewer and is more of a film maker. But it serves as an example that he said braking was crap but you say it's good? I don't know what to believe right now, these reviews seem all over the place and no consensus on it. Besides the torque and battery I guess
evX is a high speed street rider. If you see how he was braking it was pretty extreme from 30mph and he was making direct comparisons, quite rightly with other performance wheels. The fact is as a high voltage wheel people were expecting more torque and those concerns from evX were enough for him to shy away from an acceleration test.
Poważne pytanie, skoro jesteś z Warszawy a przepisy w naszym państwie są jakie są to jakim sposobem tak na luzie jeździsz po ulicach? o_O
That's it! Put measurements on the base of the battery chasity. That should make it 10x easier to line up the power pads on each side.
I recommend people check out Eevees channel for a much more in-depth review and opinions from 100s of average riders instead of trusting this one "influencer".
Adam after you flip-flopped on the V11 (it was good.. then it was bad when you didn't know how to fix it.. then it was good again when someone fixed it for you) I don't really trust your opinion of the S20. As specially when you are reporting the opposite of everyone else. Eevees took it to a bunch of cities and tested it literally 100x more than you did, they've posted demo feedback from dozens and dozens of riders and it is almost entirely positive. Also, every other reviewer on TH-cam so far has given it very high marks.
I suspect your problems are unique to the DEMO UNIT you received, or perhaps this is once again due to you not knowing the wheel very well (how to set up the suspension properly, etc) or perhaps you are bitter again because you're not being sent one for free? 🤷♀
Slightly disappointing. Can’t wait for the V13, I guess!
I also find WrongWay reviewer Adam to be one of the best independent opinion makers in the EUC community , not only because he's been providing invaluable in-depth testing results and reviews, but also because he's been consistently doing this job for quite some years now, whereas other reviewers have progressively gone off the radar. Thanks for that. The off-road riding findings of his current KS S20 review are somewhat disappointing, especially relative to the big hype and expectations of this long-awaited wheel yet I'm curious to see them repeated in the future after potential improvements / new versions of it (another kind of tire? tweaked torque? better weight distribution?). (BTW, Slava Ukrayni!)
I saw your V11 video on Instagram. I really think you need a follow up video on the S20.
Does this count as riding backward? or just "wrong way"?
You know damn well all these TH-cam content creators have an S 20 on the way whether they admit it or not
This is one of the main reasons I still haven't upgraded my MSP HT. As a larger guy, I can't see upgrading to something with less torque. Also, I never ride over 30mph anyways 🤷♂️
From TIMES SQUARE NEW YORK CITY YOU GO GUY. 1 LOVE & PEACE
Wtf is this a new channel? Because I was 100% subscribed and then wasn't...
Have really missed your content! :)
No its the same chamek :)don’t know what happened ;)