Only six shots of LRMs is bad. However, I give the 3050 “upgraded” Hunchback the crown for worst ammo bin ever. Five AC-20 shots is criminal negligence.
What about the Hunchback IIC? Kill your opponents in 3 turns or try to kill him with 2 medium lasers only. Although if anything survives 80+80+40 damage in 3 turns it deserves to make the kill.
@@Irascibanality Thank you for reminding me that Clanners are the smartest idiots in the galaxy. After all, the candle that burns twice as bright is probably a Clanner overheating.
The Bombardier holds sizeable ridicule in our "A Time of War" game since we had an enemy bombardier that was taken out of the fight by a single SRM2 Missile. The Missile hit the head and KO'd the pilot for two turns until we captured them. As of yet, nobody has dared pilot it.
Bombardier designer: what makes me a good demoman? What makes me a good demoman?! If I was a bad demoman, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing about it now would i?!
"How many widows and parentless ophans did this mech make" Not very many I would wager, so since it doesn't have enough ammo to kill a warrior and any warrior that piloted this probably wasn't lucky enough to have a wife and child.
Men and Women alike just hear "I pilot a Bombardier!", and all attraction abd arousal *immediately* escapes from their bodies like a demon from an exorcism. Well, that or the recipient suddenly realizes they are gay or ace. Except for Canopians. Because they're Canopians.
I remember a game where I'd picked the BMB for one of my 'mechs. Not going to say two tons of LRM ammunition is a lot, but there's a psychological edge to knowing that you have a 'mech that might as well be off the table in 6 turns... like yeah I'll stand still in line of fire of several enemies just to deliver slightly more accurate salvos. What are they going to do? Shoot me? They also know my machine won't fall before the ammo bins are empty. The extra speed from its XL engine also makes this mech a surprising physical attacker, when the bins are dry.
Rockets on my left. Rockets on my right. A face that says; Meowth! Nothing beats team rocket in an artillery fight! ... *Finds out the hard way that you can afford seven LRM carriers, with change, for the cost of one Bombardier.*
This is the mech you use as a GM to give players a bust prize after finally beating everyone to find a hidden star league cache. Just two rows of Bombardiers and the tech player calling out that this "hidden" star league cache was just a mothball facility. So they let the bad guys catch up, video tape their disappointed faces and blow the charges, burying them with the other failures :)
@@Funkin_Disher seriously, just downgrade to lrm 15s, now you can put in 2 more tons of ammo and 2 medium lasers. Hell get rid of the srm4 and its ammo and you can fit in 3 more meds. 5 meds is more than respectable as backup weapons for a lrm boat.
Ah the bombardier, I have fond memories of this mech. I remember the seek and destroy mission where I killed, salvage, and then mothballed one. Then take the engine out when your in a place with factory or maintenance facility access (need those positive refit modifiers for your techs) and throw it in a thunderbolt 5-SE, and watch it run, and not immediately die with its armor, and now it has enough space to be more armed like a thunderbolt without the JJ ! Ah, what a wonderful XL delivery system on legs!
IIRC this was basically introduced as a replacement for the Unseen Archer. It never really took off, either in the lore or in the fan base. I could see some new art and a handful of new variants breathing new life into the Bombardier. An MML update (or a Clan LRM mixed-tech build) could have some serious potential.
I think it looks already but honestly being low on the pedestal of bad is arguably worse than at the top because at least the top of the trash won't be forgotten
I’d genuinely never heard of these mechs before but once I started doing some research into them and seeing records from the periphery uprising a few references popped up. And yes, their bad rep made it all the way out into the periphery and stuck around for quite a while. Mainly thanks to a few unfortunate incidents during skirmishes during the war. Anyway, I can in theory see exactly what the designers were going fit with this machine. A fast artillery mech that can be used as a fire brigade in case of emergencies, makes a lot of sense and I’ve seen Archers and Catapult’s forced into that role before uncomfortably. But as insane as this sounds this mech was badly over armoured for its role and they probably should have traded a extra ton or two of armour for more ammo. Also Lord and Lady give this thing a damn laser so the logistics people don’t all mutiny at the sight of this damn thing. Honestly this machine is very Star League. It’s overly complicated, overly expensive, relies on advanced technology way to much, tried to be perfect in a role were there are plenty of good enough Mechs, and just assumes perfect logistics and support. Honestly, it could have been a good machine of the downgrade had been more competent. And I can see a lot of “custom” mech designers ripping out a lot of the weapons and making something useful with it. But this machine really did attract all kinds of bad luck on the engineering side. But who am I to question the infinite wisdom of the SLDF weapons procurement boards or whatever they were called. After all I’m just another periphery neo barbarian driving a machine that barely qualifies as a battlemech. *Insert sarcasm here*
" Also Lord and Lady give this thing a damn laser so the logistics people don’t all mutiny at the sight of this damn thing." I don't know why, but this made me internally cackle.
The later Arrow IV variant is a marginal improvement, though it fills a far less immediate battlefield role. It still has the problem of having woefully inadequate secondary weapons.
I have always viewed putting artillery on a mech to be wasteful seeing as how a vehicle can perform the role just as well If an artillery unit is taking direct fire something has gone seriously wrong somewhere
I dunno, three Rocket Launcher 20s would be a nasty surprise for anything that gets too close. If an enemy is that close to a mech carrying an Arrow IV, you already dun fucked up.
When the Bombardier miniature was introduced in the 1990s some were mispackaged as archers. When we saw these we freaked out thinking it was an archery design but learned later with the tech readout that it was actually a different Mech called the Bombardier which was a worse Mech! I love the Bombardier though because you can strip out the launchers in both torsos and replace it with two standard ppcs and really surprise people on the board and stay alive a whole lot longer! Believe it or not this is one of my favorites.
The Bomby's main flaw is being 65 tons instead of 70. If it were the same weight as an Archer it would actually be a fine 86 kph design, though then one might ask the meta question of why it isn't just written as an XL Archer variant.
It makes sense from a "star league defense contractor" point of view. It does NOT make sense from an "I am playing this boardgame" point of view. For the latter, the only operational difference between 5/8 and 4/6 is a +1 defensive modifier. For a mech that lives at 6 hexes or closer and needs to close to that distance, that's vital. But for a mech who tries to spend its existence outside of medium laser range, it's a pointless sacrifice of tonnage. That it came off the ammo supply is insane.
For people who want to know why their isn't more munitions based mechs, I give you this... thing; It can churn out impressive damage at range and it's more swift then it's primary competitor (the catapult) it simply can't sustain that fire for any length of time and needs to be kept in close to a supply dump which contradicts it's role as a fire support/siege mech. Beyond that, having an SRM 4 as a back up is a joke since most light mechs that can close the gap will have more fire power at their disposal even on 20 tonners.
Trading that SRM4 for more primary ammo would have been the move. A LRM section of mechs can bodyguard itself by keeping separation to cover each others minimum range. Something that Bombardiers can do easily, given their speed.
@@entropy11 A better alternative would have been a pair of medium lasers and an extra ton of ammo so that it could credibly spend more time in the field and fend off opponents that get too close. Hell, It'd probably be worthwhile to drop the engine to a lower rating so that you can have more space for ammo, het sinks and other weaponry.
Always optimized this for short range. Change out the LRMs for SRMs and add medium pulse lasers with jumpjets for added mobility. Speed plus JJs makes it so it can run up and push your face in and survive thanks to its heavy armor.
I played the Bombarier in Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries if I remember right. The Bombardier is very similar to the Trebuchet, but even more extreme. It doesnt carry enough ammo for a Missile Boat, especially without any backup energy weapons. Custom Bombardiers can work excellently. Extralight Engine to carry more equipment and then mount something like 2 MRM-40s, or 30 MMLs, and make sure to carry Energy weapons. It just fails with 3025 limitations. It should have smaller launchers, more ammo, and some energy weapons. It wouldnt be great, but it would be passable.
It failed in it's original Star League standard variant. No ammo and an XL engine. The 3025 variant actually made it less of a death trap by removing the XL.
@@datrux Extralight Engines are no deathtraps, but options to make faster, better armored, greater firepower in small packages. The BMD-10D is mediocre because it downgrades the speed and ends up as a worse Catapult, Crusader, Archer. The basic flaw is fundamentally still that a larger number of missile tubes is useless if if doesnt carry enough ammunition. I remember reading the Jade Phoenix trilogy final book where the ComGuard used Bombardiers as a kind of anti-Clan Heavy unit, where its high speed and firepower could challenge a Summoner or Timber Wolf.
@@ChaosTicket an Inner Sphere XL engine is near guaranteed death. Either by critical hits or losing a side torso. Not to mention the cost factor. Speed helps make your fragile mech less of a target, until you face clans with pulse lasers, better gunnery skill, and targeting computers. Then that speed doesn't matter at all. Yes, an Inner Sphere XL engine is a death trap. Has been since it was first introduced, and why the Light Engine was later introduced into the game to make up for the terrible weaknesses of the XL.
You've mentioned these ones are a challenge to write and record for because of the negative swing to them. In that case an extra thank you for the videos that form this way coming out all the same, the quality certainly feels no less for the discomfort. I really believe the warts and all approach is a big part of what makes this universe so flavorful and so tangible. Bad designs, poor choices. Characters that aren't incredible but only in their source book and then forgettable the next. The Orion having to short load by 1 salvo or risk jamming it's AC10. The Sentinel thumping it's chest with it's fist to free it's missile feed. These things add the weathering, the dirt and the depth. So again much appreciation for the extra effort some of these entail.
"We need to get in on that sweet, sweet Archer money." "But there's already an Archer..." "We'll build our own!" "..." "But worse!" "Umm..." "Tell the SLDF it'll replace multiple weapons systems. They'll buy anything at this point." "Sir, I think you need to stop vacationing on Canopus..."
At the end of the day despite what battletech and armchair generals might say Logistics is king and in a post succession war world it would obviously be gimped with even more infrastructure loss. We only see the problem build up further when the first succession wars flare up. 05As make for a good variant.
I feel like this mech's downfall is that it's not smart about its compromises. It has firepower, it has great armor, perfect heat management and it's even fast for its tonnage! at the cost of comprising on ammo capacity, which is king for a missile mech. I wonder, if it had compromised on durability for ammo capacity, would it have a niche? A backline probably does not need over 12 tons of armor.
The thing is, on paper, this mech is actually very interesting. IF it worked as advertised, it would have replaced ALL of the missile boat mechs. IF. It didn't, but I'm not gonna hold that against it. The Bombadier was a prototype mech. At it's time, it was a bleeding edge, and it could have changed the game. It was essentially a Clan mech design from the Star League era. But. War isn't kind to fancy toys. The side that wins, tends to be the one with more. More mechs, more weapons, more shots. The Bombadier was a luxury car when you needed a solid pickup truck. It can be upgraded, and fixed. It was just ahead of it's time, and people promised too much of it.
I mean, pretty much ALL its problems are fixed if you give the mech Clan LRM20s. You get 10 additional tons to play with which is more than enough to fix pretty much all the mechs problems. Swap the SRM4 for 2 Clan SRM6s and upgrade the lasers to ER MLs and the thing is a bit of a beast and basically a Vulture but 5 tons heavier.
@@JH-ph4qb Or just put in a pair of LRM 15's instead. The weight savings alone mean that you could put in two tons of ammo for EACH missile rack, AND the remaining tonnage could be used for medium lasers.
@@Reverb154 I was just doing that in MegaMekLab, though it is rather under armed with only a single Medium Laser, a Jump Jet, and six more single heat sinks...
@@JH-ph4qb "I mean, just give it technology that wont exist for like, a minimum of a hundred years, maybe two hundred. Those world war one guys needed jetpacks and lasers, you know?"
Bombardier needs to be paired with an ammo truck, for an artillery replacement it almost makes sense, you dont expect a cannon battery to carry all the ammo in the guns, park a company of them over a hill have a pool of ammo trucks to reload, but honestly would be better with arrow IVs. Or as someone else said in the comments, run it in empty bins run out and use all that armor for multiple of these (a la caracole) with refit out of direct line of fire. Not a mech for tabletop but I could see how in company /battalion maneuvers or amy level or attacks against entrenched defenses it could still fulfill its role, even more niche than the rifleman but similar hyper focused model.
That would be fine, but it was designed fast to be able to run to the front lines. If they gave it a more reasonable engine they could have put it not only more ammo, but also some backup systems like Mlasers.
I like to look at every vehicle from the perspective of a pirate. As a pirate, you don't have any meaningful supply chain, you don't have factories making mechs for you, and you might not always have the means to buy them even if you wanted. So you take what you can scrounge or steal. So as an aspiring pirate commander, I look at the bombadier and I like what I see. Limited ammo? That's fine, we're pirates, we're here for the smash and grab. If we've given our target's time to rally a meaningful defense, then we screwed up. It's also a big 65 ton mech, meaning it's fairly scary and imposing, so you might be able to use it to scare people off or get them to give you their shit without a fight. Even then, don't like it? Make your own custom load out. Missile targeting electronics are expensive. Know what you get when you remove the electronics? A rocket. Which is great, because those are cheaper and more plentiful. Why not remove an LRM 20, down grade the other so you can still tell people to fuck off from a distance, remove the SRM launcher, and then use all that spare tonnage to fit some lasers on there. It even has hands. Which are great for taking other people's property. Hell, you could even get yourself a mech melee weapon. I'd paint "Fuck your taxes" and a jolly roger on the front, and then sail the ocean of space in this thing any day.
The SRM-4 was a bizarre choice of defensive weapon that has 1 additional ton (ammo included) over say, two medium lasers, which double heat sinks should handle perfectly. An additional medium laser could be added by the removal of a ton of armor and the AMS, since I think this machine is a tad over-armored for it's role and how unusually fast it is. With that, you can add two additional tons of ammunition for the LRM-20's. 3 medium lasers is a much more significant threat to things that catch up to it, which will be mainly light 'mechs. I thought about removing CASE since the XL engine nullifies it, but I'm not a pilot hater :p
@@rafale1981 Like someone once said, medium lasers are the bread and butter of the mechlab and often times they are a good way to fill tonnage when you need more firepower, so convergent 'mech designs will happen often.
i'd keep the CASE if possible. Just because it won't keep the mech running in a single engagement being able to keep the thing afterwards is veeeeeeeeery good.
People might balk at using MLas because its the cookie cutter choice but that is just how the game was made. If you took away the SRM4 and made it just 1 ML you would earn back 2 tons which could have gone towards LRM ammo. In that case it would be arguable it's a good mech. Minimal ability to finish a fight which is bad from a pickup-game standpoint, but from an in-universe perspective a completely dedicated fire support mech that can run back to rearm faster than an Archer could be valuable.
Personally I find the 05A variant to be a vast improvement, largely because it equips the high mobility/fast response artillery mech with actual artillery. The Arrow IV Artillery Missile launcher that the 05A packs has enough ammo for 20 shots/turns, allowing it to offer a MUCH longer period support to an engagement. However it's the weapon's range that most important as changes the context within which this variant of the Bombardier interacts with the battle-space: The range of the Arrow IV, like all true artillery in Classic BT, isn't measured in hexes but rather in Map Sheets, specifically it's maximum range is 8 Map Sheets. This means that 05A is typically very far from targets/engagements it is firing at/into, ie. not on the front lines, and as such the primary ground threat that it would typically come across would be some fast Light Mechs and Medium Mechs sent to intercept. In addition while it's fallback weapons are still somewhat limited, 3 Rocket Launcher 20s(Note: Rocket Launchers are 1 shot weapons) and 1 Small Laser, any commander outside of House Steiner would have the sense to allocate some other mechs to protect the artillery and/or intercept incoming Lights. Taken along side it's still very robust armor, high speed, and increased AMS ammunition and you have a mech that has enough staying power for the kinds of engagements it's expected it would end up in. At the end of the day the Bombardier 05A has one job: get to a place to provide Artillery/Arrow IV support fast (and possibly through terrain that make using a regular vehicle not really feasible), deliver payload, return to base, rearm, rinse and repeat until told otherwise. It's not a mech meant to get stuck in on the front lines but considering it's job is to be in the back lines this isn't an issue. It has a job and does it well, which makes it a vast improvement on most other variants.
@@crapshot321 I'd guess because they expect to only run into a maximum of one very small and fast enemy per sortie, and hope to kill it in one turn with the absurd burst damage the rocket launchers provide to make their resupply appointment and keep up the rhythm of cycling between the resupply point and wherever they're firing from (maybe they intend to have two of these sprinting back and forth keeping up a continuous artillery barrage?)
We had a guy in our group who used an Bombardier often. He ran it networked in to a C3i unit as a bodyguard for LRM carriers. If anyone got close he would melee them as quick as he could. And if his spotter was dropped, the Bombardier was fast enough to take over the role. It worked pretty well for him. He even got some off the wall kills. The Drac version from the Jihad isn't terrible.
With only 6 volleys for its main weapons and less than ideal heat control and backup weapons, it's hard to find a good use for the Bombardier. Too lightly armed and equipped for frontline combat, it's best used to defend supply lines so it can rearm quickly between engagements. Sure, it's a heavy mech, but there are a LOT of better 65 ton options for a missile boat out there, like the Crusader or Catapult. I suppose the best thing I can say about it is that it's not a Jagermech.
I remember playing Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries the first few times, not good with the campaign, I'd play just the random missions and the Bombardier was one of the few heavier Mechs I could afford. It seemed like it would fire a flood of missiles making you think it was powerful but...You'd sadly see it wasn't hurting anything much and soon ran out of ammo.
To me, any mech based off solely ammo fed weapons with an XL engine is just asking for trouble. If they really wanted to make this a good artillery mech, they should just give it an Arrow IV. This would give it range and plenty of ammo.
The BMB-12D makes for an excellent raider mech: to take out long range defenses for a strike lance, run back for refitment, come back to secure escape for strike lance and convoy when defending reinforcement arrive
This is a great example of a mech that, with a little TLC lives up to its name. Downgrade the LRM launchers to 15s. Add an additional ton of ammo each. Give us MASC and replace the srm with 6 ER small lasers. Now you have a rapid deployable mine launcher that can outrun most mediums and outfight any light fast enough to catch it. Take two tons of FASCAM rounds and two tons of standard round and you can really mess up your opponent by denying them ground. Mind you you would never use more then a lance per battalion sized unit but it can still be very useful in this config
I used one in MW2 Mercs for the Leitzen ice ship mission. One LRM20, one LRM15 and two LRM5s, the reload cycles allowed an almost constant hail of LRM fire to kill those peksy aeros.
Potential fix for this blunder of a mech, makes it even more specialized but whatever, ditch the srm drop the 20s for 15s and use that extra weight for more ammunition. Yes it looses its ability to defend itself in cqc but it never realistically could to begin with, least this way it can still bring respectable indirect fire capabilities for at least a semi useful amount of time.
Hello Red. Taking another look at the design... I think I have come up with a workable solution. To start with, we remove the SRM-4, and it's ammo. We then upgrade the Internal Structure to Endo-Steel. This nets us 6 tons of mass. First, we double the LRM ammo, adding 2 tons and CASE to the other torso. Adding half a ton of armoring leaves us with 3 tons of mass remaining. Three standard Medium Lasers uses that up nicely. We now have a Bombardier with twice the ammo for it's LRMs, and enough close ranged firepower to be worth the effort. In addition, we have increased the armor a fraction as well. Since 12 'shots' each for the LRMs will be quickly consumed, one could argue that the CASE is not really needed... in that case, one could remove both CASE systems and add yet another standard Medium Laser, thus increasing the Mech's close range firepower. All in all, the upgrade to the Internal Structure is the most costly, although I would argue that the removal of the SRM-4 would mitigate that to some extent. Also, this does not change the Mech's design enough to matter. Leaving it as a recognizable Bombardier.
This is a patrol mech, it's made to deal with disidents and scavengers, or conversely as a convoy skirmisher/Ammo/fuel runner. It is a support mech in every sense of the word and if paired with the floating tanks and other odd peices of its time, it makes sense as period peice but little else.
Over armored, over engined, and while the firepower's great, the endurance ain't. Here's how you turn this hunk of junk into something useful: Swap that big XL for something smaller (tho still an XL), that moves it at 64kph. Then take off like 2-3 tons of armor, support mechs shouldn't be in the line of fire, and 8 tons of armor would serve it well enough to get out of trouble rather than standing its ground. Oh and ditch the SRM-4 and its ammo, nothing against the SRM-4, just that on a 65 ton mech you're going to need more than one to pose a credible threat. Oh and like I mentioned, it shouldn't even be seeing CQC. There's a reason that indirect fire support mechs have energy weapons as their back-up. The LRM-20's are fine as-is, I guess, tho I'd prefer to see 4 LRM-10's instead (slight bit of metagaming there but it's not egregious). Use all that freed up weight for a quartet of medium lasers (the included DHS should be plenty enough for that, since you probably won't be firing the LRM-20's at the same time). Oh and obviously, fix the most glaring issue with the Bombardier, by increasing the LRM ammo load to a total of 4 tons, 2 tons for each launcher. This also makes it a better artillery mech, as it would be able to swap between Swarm LRM, Standard LRM, LRM ER, and... IDK, FASCAM LRM ammo. Or less types with more tons of each type, as suits the mission. In more modern times, with the widespread prevalence of AMS and Laser AMS, it would probably be best to switch away from the LRM-20's, instead switching to many Mech Mortar launchers. Thankfully, there's still ammo options for those besides just standard ammo, and the upside is that Mech Mortars don't get intercepted by AMS for some reason.
I was able to modify one of these with double heatsinks, ferro-fibrous armor, and an XL engine, with 2 LRM 20's and enough ammo that it could fire both 12 times. It tied me over pretty well until I got my hands on enough parts to make an Archer. I even had a few extra tons, which I used to load it down with rocket launchers. I could send it into medium range and do some catastrophic damage. I can't remember what engine I gave it, but it was the second fastest mech in that lance at that time. In total though, It would launch 100 rounds at maximum. It had 2 LRM20's, 2 RL20's, and 2 RL10's. Doing so would overheat it. Nothing could be done about that. But with damage like that, with a highly trained pilot who can make sure 80%+ of the shots hit, it was worth the risk of shutting down, or worse. I did have to be careful though, I could not let this configuration get caught alone. And I had to make sure this mech moved its maximum range every turn, to keep its evasion up, just in case someone decided to take a shot at it. It had max armor, but a bad crit is a bad crit, better to not risk it. All of that said, according to the game's damage calculation, It would deal an insane amount of damage in an alpha strike. But my experience with it said it would only actually do about 3/4 of that. It had one job, make it rain, and it did that job very well.
@@BigRed40TECH Aye, this 'Mech has all the hallmarks of being a feature of mission creep (IE replace all arty with a new wonder missile) and backroom deals with Generals who, when they retire are offered very well paid jobs for helping get the contract.
Dollar Store Archer. I wonder wonder if you could turn it into an SRM boat? Get rid of the arm-mounted SRM launcher and make it a double Small laser or a Medium laser or something. Get rid of the anti missile system. Maybe give it four SRM-6 launchers. Keep the CASE since you'll need that now. Just brainstorming. Though if something like this works, you'd have to change the name from the Bombardier to the Blunderbuss.
With a few changes, this thing could basically a more psychotic, less balanced Kintaro. Replace the LRM20s with as many SRM6s as possible, with ammo filling the gaps. It would still be a relatively short lived mech, but if it got anywhere near an opponent... just start throwing hands and launching missiles and watch things die.
They built a 65 ton mech that was fully dependent on highly limited ammo. That alone should have set off ALL the alarm bells. How ANYONE let this thing get past quality control is beyond me.
So my original exposure to this 'Mech was in Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. I literally loaded the damn thing with as many medium lasers as the game could handle, then went around one shotting everything. Just for this, it will always have a special place in my heart.
Well, if there was anyone who was good at building underperforming equipment based on made-up scenarios that made them seem good, it was the Star League. Edit: Gah, it's literally just a faster, more expensive, less capable Archer. I bet they made BANK on that defense contract, though.
to me it seems like its a mech made to temporarily fill a gap against, light mechs, vehicles, and infantry. to rush to a gap where massed light forces are attempting to stream through and just saturate the area until better forces can arrive and plug that hole in the lines before returning to base for restocking. in short it's a stopgap mech. bullying away anything lighter than it but incapable of punching at, let alone above its weight
If they had dropped the LRM20s to 15s, that would free up 3 tons per launcher for ammo. More than enough given you really only need 2 tons per LRM15 launcher, so you get another 2 tons to do what you want with. Its such a simple fix that i just can't see any reason not to do it other than stubbornness and refusal to give up the advantage Swarm and Thunder LRMs get from the larger launcher. As for cannon variants, the 14K might work? it strips out all the weapons and replaces the Launchers for 4MML7s and 5 tons of ammo paired with a C3 slave and 3MGs in a array,. The ammo is divided into 3 tons of LRM 2 of SRM. That still leaves it anemic on SRM ammo only having enough for 7 turns of fire, but it has 12 turns of LRM ammo. Not great, but double that of the standard Bombardier, and if the target is C3'd then it will get the best use of its ammo.
@@DIEGhostfish Swarm LRMs effectively give missiles that miss in the cluster roll a chance to hit a secondary adjacent target, this repeats until there are no secondary targets or missiles left. Ergo the bigger the launcher the better, but you still have to land hits first. Its basically a very weird streak system. Thunder LRMs are minefield missiles, on success in hitting a hex they create a minefield with damage equal to the launcher size, with a maximum of 20. So a LRM20 is 25% better at making minefields than a LRM15.
This thing is an Archer on meth, about the time teeth fall out. It does have a legacy- the Wolf's Dragoon and maybe the Stiener Archers, but even if they reduce the armour they still are worth more than these things. I'd rather be caught dead in a Charger than alive in a Bombadier.
I honestly don’t get why they wouldn’t just change the LRM 20s for two LRM 15s and use the extra tonnage for more ammo and a pair of medium lasers in the arms. Hell, you could even upgrade the SRM 4 to a SRM 6 and have it brawl a bit better if all else fails. I get that these changes can be tricky, but after sinking so much money into R&D and all the other costs, it would be money well spent if the mech became at least somewhat marketable.
It's hard to make a good 5/8 'Mech at 65 tons. You've either got to go 4/6, or accept the fact that you're only going to have one gun. This thing is going against not only the Archer, but the Crusader and Catapult, too. It was doomed to fail from the start.
@@BigRed40TECH Yes they are, and they're all 4/6. Guess I should clarify the original comment. It's easier to make a decent 5/8 'Mech at 70 or 75 tons than at 65.
2 LRM-20s with 1 ton of ammo each? Sounds like the best way to make this mech adequate is to downgrade the LRMs to -15 racks and use the freed tonnage for more ammo (2 tons is usually enough for one LRM-15) and possibly Medium Lasers. Weapon only refits are typically easy in Battletech compared to doing things like changing out engines or heat sink types. Edit: If you want to go for the pure cheese optimization, change out each LRM-20 for an LRM-15 and LRM-5 combo. Same throw weight, but 1 ton freed up per swap for additional LRM ammo. 3 tons of LRM-15 ammo and 1 ton of LRM-5 ammo will give all launchers 12 shots which is considered adequate for a single battle of barely so.
I had the same idea with medium lasers, but dropped the SRM-4 with it's ammo, AMS, and a ton of armor for 3 of them and 2 more tons of LRM reloads. It's WAY over-defended for it's performance. The LRM-15 + 5 combo to save an additional ton is a good idea, but I was more going for a canon redesign, which I don't recall seeing that idea intentionally used to save weight, even if it is more sensible in some cases.
If I want to cheese the original design i would rather replace the 2 LRM20s with 8 LRM5s. The base design is already oversinked thanks to 10 doubles in the engine, and the heat penalty for the smaller launchers still doesn't cross that threshold unless you are firing the SRMs as well. And with 4 tons saved, you can still get your extra 2 tons of ammo, along with CASE to protect the other side torso, an additional Engine Heatsink for if you really think you need it (you probably don't) and a small laser to round out that extra half ton. Plus the whole thing costs about 220,000 C-bills (which is around $2.5 million in current fun bucks) less per unit.
Hold on... why would someone design a support mech to be fast? Average is fine for a support mech - what you want is damage at range. See: Catapult, Archer, certain loadouts of the Stalker, Trebuchet, and for direct fire support the Annihilator, Warhammer, Rifleman... it goes on and on. It's fine being heavily armoured and fast, but if you put only enough ammo into it to fire one or two shots, it's rather pointless. You don't run around in a support mech, you pick a point and wander around there, banging off shots. This is a crazy design. This, basically, just seems to be a warcrimes machine. The best you can expect for it is to sprint in, level a hospital or city block, and then bug out. It's not going to handle anything meaningful in terms of another 'mech. Maybe some vehicles? Aircraft? But... the other mechs can do that too. And better. WHAT IS THIS THING?!?!? Hard pass. Unless I wanted to start a theme park with a 'mech-shoulder ride - you could put rollercoaster cars on the back of it, I suppose. It's not going to make it's c-bills back, though.
@@DIEGhostfish yeah, but… catapult? That’s the same weight and can do a better job of supporting a lighter lance than this thing can, I’d say. Then you’ve got the (quite dire in my opinion) Jaegermech and the (far better) Thunderbolt… Just seems to me that a lot of the design choices made for this thing don’t add up. A heavily armoured (good) fast (keep going!) mech that can… fire maybe twice before needing to retire for reload and refit (GODDAMNIT). Like I say, I think a supporting platform - especially one built around indirect fire capability - doesn’t *need* to be fast, because it has the range to punish an enemy from wherever it is standing at the time. A light lance would still be better served being backed up by, for instance, a catapult, which can smack the bad guys around from wherever it’s standing without worrying about speed. And it can do it for longer, and it can do it better. Failing that, aerospace assets or vehicles might be the thing to send with the lance. I dunno. It’s all speculation either way, I suppose. Maybe this thing was the mistake that needed to be made so that better solutions could be produced. So that’s one thing in it’s favour: it’s so useless that it showed people what not to do. Your point is a good one though, don’t get me wrong - I don’t disagree. It probably - almost certainly in fact - was what they were aiming for!
The concept (fast fire support) is sound, so long as it is executed properly. Being able to keep up with more mobile battles or to quickly reposition to confuse opponents are both major pluses. Especially as late in the Star League era the proliferation of weight saving technologies was threatening to change the standards of what is and isn't fast. Having your own high mobility fire support on the field before anyone else bothered to do the R&D to make it could have been a major asset... If not for the fact that the Bombardier was horribly ill-suited to the role. Sure, it had the speed. But on a unit whose mission will likely involve advancing well ahead of supply lines you would want deeper ammo bins, not the sub-standard ammo load the Bombardier carries. There is also the foolishness of choosing the 65-ton weight class for this purpose, as the ideal tonnage for the Bombardier's speed is 60 tons (55 if you also want to mount jets). This folly is exacerbated by the fact that the Trebuchet and Griffin already existed, updating their designs would have been a significantly cheaper option.
The only way to "properly" downgrade the Bombardier basically turns it into either a Catapult or a softer Archer. So: too specialized in its original form, carries far too little ammo and it utterly failed to live up to the overly optimistic hopes and dreams of the SLDF... And it' very realistic in that regard. How many times has military procurement fucked up and approved total shit?
FASAengineering strikes again! The Arrow IV version used by the Outworlds Alliance is probably the best of out of the variants, simply due to matching the original design requirements. The Bombadier was one another example of the profligate military experimentation and overspending the SLDF was allowed due to its immense resources. It's never a good sign for a mech when a Periphery power, 250 + years later, makes a better version then the largest military organization ever seen. Especially when that organization could have done the same thing. When the Quickdraw looks like a better option to pilot, you should really go back to your development board and request a new unit.
God, the Bombardier. It's such a bad mech, but it has an easy fix: Downgrade the LRM-20 to -15 to double the ammo and add a couple of medium lasers. This works on both the standard model and the downgrade too. On the downgrade, this also deals with the heat issues by bracketing the weapons systems. 2 ML + SRM-4 is 9 heat, 2 LRM-15s is 10 heat, so you only have to manage the movement heat. It still wouldn't be a great mech, but it would actually be usable.
Bombardier, I only know it from the one really short time i played MW2: Mercs. I didnt know what it was, but it was there and it was heftier than the Panther they had me in, so im like, sure. I dont recall it endearing itself to me.....I later got a stalker and wasnt a fan of how hot it ran.....or how slow it was. and yeah, LRM-20s. Younger me was all about them big ol' guns. Older me prefers LRM15s or 10s, especially IS variants. Sure, you lose some raw damage, but you gain a few tons for extra ammo or other systems. Much like how i dont like AC20s or Gauss Rifles. They require such a huge investment in weight and space, but you wind up sorely lacking somewhere on your mech to accommodate them. Be it, not enough armor, running to hot, cuz you put ammo instead of heatsinks, or you lose out on back up weapons....in games like Mechwarrior 5, those bigger weapons also have long cooldown times or in the case of the AC-20 really god awful ballistic handling. Gauss is good, but I dont like its cooldown timer. You cant be standing around for 7 seconds reloading a Gauss rifle, when your swarmed by tanks and mechs. ID rather have AC10 or a pair of Large Lasers to put out the fire at a higher rate, while also having hte tonnage to actually make my mech more than a walking sniper rifle.
14C is pretty good. FedCom Civil War era. I'd rock it. But if you're playing with things like logistics and force lists that actually have to make sense within the era that you are playing in, then yeah, it might be a little more difficult to justify using it or having it.
The thing that truly makes this one of the worst mechs is the silly head turret that doesn't contain any actual weapon. I'd say the Urbanmech is superior to this because the Urbanmech can actually fill a niche yet the Bombardier feels almost like it was designed in a day and sold without testing.
the concept is good, having a fast response lrm support with its own build in missile protection for counter artillery/missile fire. ammo and no proper close defense are weaknesses but its armored and can run away. its way too expensive for what it is though.
When I took a solid look at the Bombardier, at its variants, I said one thing: Damn, this thing is an assassin, seems perfect for the Periphery though. Learning this was supposed to be such an exemplary advance in military doctrine, I completely cannot look at this thing seriously. I'm surprised we don't have pirate refits from the Circinus Federation or Lyrans to make it less awful.
I love the fact that is what it was supposed to be, but it failed so badly. So catastrophically, that the manufacturer just literally went "fuck this thing" lol
So the Terran Hegemony cancelled the run of the Catapult in 2563 and 172 years later, their direct successors in the SLDF commissioned this, despite Catapults still being in service and receiving upgrades. Says a lot about their future planning & procurement departments...
So bad that even the original manufacturers were willing to let the design be extinct despite actually having enough know how to create replacement parts? Especially in a setting where finding intact pristine tech is a godsend? ...Damn. This is like the Archer's bullied little bro.
I'm not a very smart mech jockey. But. With the lost tech added back on, wouldn't this be fine if you downgraded the LRM 20's to 15's? Then use the extra tonnage to add additional missiles?
Hello Red. Although everything you've said about this Mech design is true, the Mech can be saved as a battlefield unit. Starting with the BMB-14C, built in 3062, one needs to remove the Mech's C3 system, and all the Mech's weaponry, to start again. This time, installing a pair of LRM-15's, 2 tons of ammo for each, and finally a pair of standard Large Lasers. To make this work, one also has to remove 1 ton of Armor as well. However, this ends up with enough space saved to add TSM to the design, making it more dangerous in close combat scenarios. The Endo-Steel, and 325 XL Engine remain the same, so the Mech does not have any change in its speed profile. Although it hits less hard at long range, and is slightly less protected overall, it is still a very fast Mech for its weight class, and with the addition of TSM, is more dangerous at close combat range. Adding the pair of standard Large Lasers gives the Mech a way to a fair amount of damage at medium and short ranges, allowing the Mech to open holes in an enemy's already sandpapered armor. Although needing to balance the use of the installed weapons, a good pilot should be able to 'ride the curve' and still be a threat in combat. Up close, the Mech can fire both Large Lasers and run around without heat issues. Again, the Mech can run and reposition itself over and over again, and fire both LRM launchers without issue. It is the foolhardy pilot that attempts to use all four weapons systems at once that can cause massive heat issues to deal with, and the Mech should only be assigned to pilots with some experience to get the most out of the re-design. Frank Smedley, Chief Tech, Hellsport Mech Museum, Stygian System.
I don't cover custom-mechs though. :\ Custom mechs aren't really the mech. Any mech can be salvaged if its just transformed into a different mech. It's just not what I cover. :)
@@BigRed40TECH : I agree, that they are not 'the Mech'... but in this case, all I really did was down-sized the LRM launchers and add a couple of beam weapons.
Maybe I’m an idiot but I would just drop the SRM and it’s ammo for like a pair of MG’s or Small Lasers, for anti-vehicle and anti-infantry and then spend the rest on LRM ammo, it’s quick enough to dip when things get close range and should be a decent quick fire support.
I've seen some weird designs, the thorn, the Hussain, this one is not quite as wierd as those 2 but it is close enough to be considered "on the spectrum". All to often good ideas do not equate to practical application and "niche" mechs rarely end up the "niche" they were designed for because commanders simply do not own "crystal balls". Better to take a proven design and equip it for those "niche" encounters rather than design an entire line of useless "niche" mechs. If you want your ARC-2R to be able to brawl give it some brawling weapons and remove some lurm ammo, it's always a trade off.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
“Commander, I want an Archer!”
“We have an Archer at the base.”
The Archer at the base:
Brutal lol
Only six shots of LRMs is bad. However, I give the 3050 “upgraded” Hunchback the crown for worst ammo bin ever. Five AC-20 shots is criminal negligence.
What about the Hunchback IIC? Kill your opponents in 3 turns or try to kill him with 2 medium lasers only. Although if anything survives 80+80+40 damage in 3 turns it deserves to make the kill.
@@fix0the0spade Well, the Hunchback IIC is basically designed as a death ride for aging Clan mechwarriors. It's supposed to get you killed 🤷♂️
@@Irascibanality Thank you for reminding me that Clanners are the smartest idiots in the galaxy. After all, the candle that burns twice as bright is probably a Clanner overheating.
@@fix0the0spade I love what you just said and will be quoting that to my friends now XD
Hard, hard agree.
The Bombardier holds sizeable ridicule in our "A Time of War" game since we had an enemy bombardier that was taken out of the fight by a single SRM2 Missile. The Missile hit the head and KO'd the pilot for two turns until we captured them. As of yet, nobody has dared pilot it.
Why pilot a casket?
Should have sold it to some militia claiming it was an Archer...
Bombardier designer: what makes me a good demoman? What makes me a good demoman?! If I was a bad demoman, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing about it now would i?!
LEEEEEEETZDOOWEEEEEHHHHT
Note: The bombardier designer did not return for a second interview.
@@vadandrumist1670 Yeah, that's the real kicker.
This mech is literally
"My job here is done."
"But you didn't do anything."
perfect mech for my employees. I'd fit all of them with Bombardiers.
😂 it might killed one mech,liked 20 tons
"How many widows and parentless ophans did this mech make"
Not very many I would wager, so since it doesn't have enough ammo to kill a warrior and any warrior that piloted this probably wasn't lucky enough to have a wife and child.
Men and Women alike just hear "I pilot a Bombardier!", and all attraction abd arousal *immediately* escapes from their bodies like a demon from an exorcism. Well, that or the recipient suddenly realizes they are gay or ace.
Except for Canopians. Because they're Canopians.
Pop out the LRM-20's for MRM-30's on the BMB-12D model and you got yourself an EVIL short to mid range fighter.
I remember a game where I'd picked the BMB for one of my 'mechs. Not going to say two tons of LRM ammunition is a lot, but there's a psychological edge to knowing that you have a 'mech that might as well be off the table in 6 turns... like yeah I'll stand still in line of fire of several enemies just to deliver slightly more accurate salvos. What are they going to do? Shoot me? They also know my machine won't fall before the ammo bins are empty.
The extra speed from its XL engine also makes this mech a surprising physical attacker, when the bins are dry.
it seems like a good mech for the support role in a lance where it can go for a full on bum rush while its lancemates distract the enemy
Which is not what it was designed to do XD
@@BigRed40TECH Bombardier is like the sports players who aren't great at their role but will jump into every brawl with 120% commitment.
But sprinting across the map and punching flabbergasted opponents is the Archer's job!
@@jonbezeau3124 Ah yes, the goon.
Rockets on my left. Rockets on my right. A face that says; Meowth! Nothing beats team rocket in an artillery fight!
...
*Finds out the hard way that you can afford seven LRM carriers, with change, for the cost of one Bombardier.*
This is the mech you use as a GM to give players a bust prize after finally beating everyone to find a hidden star league cache. Just two rows of Bombardiers and the tech player calling out that this "hidden" star league cache was just a mothball facility. So they let the bad guys catch up, video tape their disappointed faces and blow the charges, burying them with the other failures :)
Hey man, DHS are DHS. Just trade down some of those LRMs for some more secondary guns
@@Funkin_Disher Right!? Its a bad mech, but nothing refits can't fix.
@@Funkin_Disher seriously, just downgrade to lrm 15s, now you can put in 2 more tons of ammo and 2 medium lasers. Hell get rid of the srm4 and its ammo and you can fit in 3 more meds. 5 meds is more than respectable as backup weapons for a lrm boat.
Ah the bombardier, I have fond memories of this mech. I remember the seek and destroy mission where I killed, salvage, and then mothballed one. Then take the engine out when your in a place with factory or maintenance facility access (need those positive refit modifiers for your techs) and throw it in a thunderbolt 5-SE, and watch it run, and not immediately die with its armor, and now it has enough space to be more armed like a thunderbolt without the JJ ! Ah, what a wonderful XL delivery system on legs!
IIRC this was basically introduced as a replacement for the Unseen Archer. It never really took off, either in the lore or in the fan base. I could see some new art and a handful of new variants breathing new life into the Bombardier. An MML update (or a Clan LRM mixed-tech build) could have some serious potential.
Technical Readout 2750 (1989) was published long before the Unseen (1996) ever happened, so the Bomardiers design had nothing to do with that.
I think it looks already but honestly being low on the pedestal of bad is arguably worse than at the top because at least the top of the trash won't be forgotten
I’d genuinely never heard of these mechs before but once I started doing some research into them and seeing records from the periphery uprising a few references popped up. And yes, their bad rep made it all the way out into the periphery and stuck around for quite a while. Mainly thanks to a few unfortunate incidents during skirmishes during the war.
Anyway, I can in theory see exactly what the designers were going fit with this machine. A fast artillery mech that can be used as a fire brigade in case of emergencies, makes a lot of sense and I’ve seen Archers and Catapult’s forced into that role before uncomfortably. But as insane as this sounds this mech was badly over armoured for its role and they probably should have traded a extra ton or two of armour for more ammo. Also Lord and Lady give this thing a damn laser so the logistics people don’t all mutiny at the sight of this damn thing.
Honestly this machine is very Star League. It’s overly complicated, overly expensive, relies on advanced technology way to much, tried to be perfect in a role were there are plenty of good enough Mechs, and just assumes perfect logistics and support. Honestly, it could have been a good machine of the downgrade had been more competent. And I can see a lot of “custom” mech designers ripping out a lot of the weapons and making something useful with it. But this machine really did attract all kinds of bad luck on the engineering side.
But who am I to question the infinite wisdom of the SLDF weapons procurement boards or whatever they were called. After all I’m just another periphery neo barbarian driving a machine that barely qualifies as a battlemech. *Insert sarcasm here*
(Thank you for the video and on a obscure mech!)
" Also Lord and Lady give this thing a damn laser so the logistics people don’t all mutiny at the sight of this damn thing."
I don't know why, but this made me internally cackle.
The later Arrow IV variant is a marginal improvement, though it fills a far less immediate battlefield role. It still has the problem of having woefully inadequate secondary weapons.
I have always viewed putting artillery on a mech to be wasteful seeing as how a vehicle can perform the role just as well
If an artillery unit is taking direct fire something has gone seriously wrong somewhere
I dunno, three Rocket Launcher 20s would be a nasty surprise for anything that gets too close. If an enemy is that close to a mech carrying an Arrow IV, you already dun fucked up.
@@Tallus_ap_Mordren Yeah, Arrow 4 is really supposed to hang back.
I forgot how much of a disaster this mech was....NOW after watching this, I can go back to forgetting it again.
When the Bombardier miniature was introduced in the 1990s some were mispackaged as archers. When we saw these we freaked out thinking it was an archery design but learned later with the tech readout that it was actually a different Mech called the Bombardier which was a worse Mech! I love the Bombardier though because you can strip out the launchers in both torsos and replace it with two standard ppcs and really surprise people on the board and stay alive a whole lot longer! Believe it or not this is one of my favorites.
The Bomby's main flaw is being 65 tons instead of 70. If it were the same weight as an Archer it would actually be a fine 86 kph design, though then one might ask the meta question of why it isn't just written as an XL Archer variant.
It makes sense from a "star league defense contractor" point of view. It does NOT make sense from an "I am playing this boardgame" point of view. For the latter, the only operational difference between 5/8 and 4/6 is a +1 defensive modifier. For a mech that lives at 6 hexes or closer and needs to close to that distance, that's vital. But for a mech who tries to spend its existence outside of medium laser range, it's a pointless sacrifice of tonnage. That it came off the ammo supply is insane.
@@gbprime2353 It doesn't make sense from a in-universe Mech pilot pov either. 🙄
For people who want to know why their isn't more munitions based mechs, I give you this... thing; It can churn out impressive damage at range and it's more swift then it's primary competitor (the catapult) it simply can't sustain that fire for any length of time and needs to be kept in close to a supply dump which contradicts it's role as a fire support/siege mech.
Beyond that, having an SRM 4 as a back up is a joke since most light mechs that can close the gap will have more fire power at their disposal even on 20 tonners.
I will say though I appreciate it's giant head lights.
Trading that SRM4 for more primary ammo would have been the move. A LRM section of mechs can bodyguard itself by keeping separation to cover each others minimum range. Something that Bombardiers can do easily, given their speed.
@@entropy11 A better alternative would have been a pair of medium lasers and an extra ton of ammo so that it could credibly spend more time in the field and fend off opponents that get too close.
Hell, It'd probably be worthwhile to drop the engine to a lower rating so that you can have more space for ammo, het sinks and other weaponry.
"having an SRM 4 as a back up" - I am really puzzled by this as all images show huge gun on top. What is that, then? A fata morgana?
@@KuK137 The gun on top is an anti-missile system.
Always optimized this for short range. Change out the LRMs for SRMs and add medium pulse lasers with jumpjets for added mobility. Speed plus JJs makes it so it can run up and push your face in and survive thanks to its heavy armor.
Graft and corruption. Some Star League generals deserved prison time for their role in this abomination.
I played the Bombarier in Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries if I remember right.
The Bombardier is very similar to the Trebuchet, but even more extreme. It doesnt carry enough ammo for a Missile Boat, especially without any backup energy weapons.
Custom Bombardiers can work excellently. Extralight Engine to carry more equipment and then mount something like 2 MRM-40s, or 30 MMLs, and make sure to carry Energy weapons.
It just fails with 3025 limitations. It should have smaller launchers, more ammo, and some energy weapons. It wouldnt be great, but it would be passable.
It would be the Crusader lol
@@jonbezeau3124 The Crusader is slow, well average for the era. the Bombardier is fast.
It failed in it's original Star League standard variant. No ammo and an XL engine. The 3025 variant actually made it less of a death trap by removing the XL.
@@datrux Extralight Engines are no deathtraps, but options to make faster, better armored, greater firepower in small packages.
The BMD-10D is mediocre because it downgrades the speed and ends up as a worse Catapult, Crusader, Archer.
The basic flaw is fundamentally still that a larger number of missile tubes is useless if if doesnt carry enough ammunition.
I remember reading the Jade Phoenix trilogy final book where the ComGuard used Bombardiers as a kind of anti-Clan Heavy unit, where its high speed and firepower could challenge a Summoner or Timber Wolf.
@@ChaosTicket an Inner Sphere XL engine is near guaranteed death. Either by critical hits or losing a side torso. Not to mention the cost factor. Speed helps make your fragile mech less of a target, until you face clans with pulse lasers, better gunnery skill, and targeting computers. Then that speed doesn't matter at all. Yes, an Inner Sphere XL engine is a death trap. Has been since it was first introduced, and why the Light Engine was later introduced into the game to make up for the terrible weaknesses of the XL.
You've mentioned these ones are a challenge to write and record for because of the negative swing to them. In that case an extra thank you for the videos that form this way coming out all the same, the quality certainly feels no less for the discomfort. I really believe the warts and all approach is a big part of what makes this universe so flavorful and so tangible. Bad designs, poor choices. Characters that aren't incredible but only in their source book and then forgettable the next. The Orion having to short load by 1 salvo or risk jamming it's AC10. The Sentinel thumping it's chest with it's fist to free it's missile feed. These things add the weathering, the dirt and the depth. So again much appreciation for the extra effort some of these entail.
Of all the Classic Era Mechs the Bombardier is probably the one I think of the least.
But it brings such joy!
"We need to get in on that sweet, sweet Archer money."
"But there's already an Archer..."
"We'll build our own!"
"..."
"But worse!"
"Umm..."
"Tell the SLDF it'll replace multiple weapons systems. They'll buy anything at this point."
"Sir, I think you need to stop vacationing on Canopus..."
How can you not love that face. That year book picture smile, those mischievous eyes, and those blushing cheeks
At the end of the day despite what battletech and armchair generals might say Logistics is king and in a post succession war world it would obviously be gimped with even more infrastructure loss. We only see the problem build up further when the first succession wars flare up. 05As make for a good variant.
I feel like this mech's downfall is that it's not smart about its compromises. It has firepower, it has great armor, perfect heat management and it's even fast for its tonnage! at the cost of comprising on ammo capacity, which is king for a missile mech.
I wonder, if it had compromised on durability for ammo capacity, would it have a niche? A backline probably does not need over 12 tons of armor.
Turning it into a fragile shoot and scoot mech over a well armored burst fighter who needs to hug the supply lines would probably been smarter.
This is a mech in dire need of a redesign I say! And a very odd unit I say.
The thing is, on paper, this mech is actually very interesting. IF it worked as advertised, it would have replaced ALL of the missile boat mechs. IF. It didn't, but I'm not gonna hold that against it.
The Bombadier was a prototype mech. At it's time, it was a bleeding edge, and it could have changed the game. It was essentially a Clan mech design from the Star League era. But. War isn't kind to fancy toys. The side that wins, tends to be the one with more. More mechs, more weapons, more shots. The Bombadier was a luxury car when you needed a solid pickup truck.
It can be upgraded, and fixed. It was just ahead of it's time, and people promised too much of it.
I mean, pretty much ALL its problems are fixed if you give the mech Clan LRM20s. You get 10 additional tons to play with which is more than enough to fix pretty much all the mechs problems. Swap the SRM4 for 2 Clan SRM6s and upgrade the lasers to ER MLs and the thing is a bit of a beast and basically a Vulture but 5 tons heavier.
@@JH-ph4qb Or just put in a pair of LRM 15's instead. The weight savings alone mean that you could put in two tons of ammo for EACH missile rack, AND the remaining tonnage could be used for medium lasers.
@@Reverb154 I was just doing that in MegaMekLab, though it is rather under armed with only a single Medium Laser, a Jump Jet, and six more single heat sinks...
@@Reverb154 I already suggested that compromise. I am talking about if you wanted to make a optimal version of it.
@@JH-ph4qb "I mean, just give it technology that wont exist for like, a minimum of a hundred years, maybe two hundred. Those world war one guys needed jetpacks and lasers, you know?"
Bombardier needs to be paired with an ammo truck, for an artillery replacement it almost makes sense, you dont expect a cannon battery to carry all the ammo in the guns, park a company of them over a hill have a pool of ammo trucks to reload, but honestly would be better with arrow IVs. Or as someone else said in the comments, run it in empty bins run out and use all that armor for multiple of these (a la caracole) with refit out of direct line of fire. Not a mech for tabletop but I could see how in company /battalion maneuvers or amy level or attacks against entrenched defenses it could still fulfill its role, even more niche than the rifleman but similar hyper focused model.
That would be fine, but it was designed fast to be able to run to the front lines. If they gave it a more reasonable engine they could have put it not only more ammo, but also some backup systems like Mlasers.
I like to look at every vehicle from the perspective of a pirate. As a pirate, you don't have any meaningful supply chain, you don't have factories making mechs for you, and you might not always have the means to buy them even if you wanted. So you take what you can scrounge or steal.
So as an aspiring pirate commander, I look at the bombadier and I like what I see. Limited ammo? That's fine, we're pirates, we're here for the smash and grab. If we've given our target's time to rally a meaningful defense, then we screwed up. It's also a big 65 ton mech, meaning it's fairly scary and imposing, so you might be able to use it to scare people off or get them to give you their shit without a fight.
Even then, don't like it? Make your own custom load out. Missile targeting electronics are expensive. Know what you get when you remove the electronics? A rocket. Which is great, because those are cheaper and more plentiful. Why not remove an LRM 20, down grade the other so you can still tell people to fuck off from a distance, remove the SRM launcher, and then use all that spare tonnage to fit some lasers on there. It even has hands. Which are great for taking other people's property. Hell, you could even get yourself a mech melee weapon.
I'd paint "Fuck your taxes" and a jolly roger on the front, and then sail the ocean of space in this thing any day.
To quote Archer; Silver Medal "First Place Loser".
The SRM-4 was a bizarre choice of defensive weapon that has 1 additional ton (ammo included) over say, two medium lasers, which double heat sinks should handle perfectly. An additional medium laser could be added by the removal of a ton of armor and the AMS, since I think this machine is a tad over-armored for it's role and how unusually fast it is. With that, you can add two additional tons of ammunition for the LRM-20's. 3 medium lasers is a much more significant threat to things that catch up to it, which will be mainly light 'mechs. I thought about removing CASE since the XL engine nullifies it, but I'm not a pilot hater :p
I believe you just designed an archer…
That was better than my thoughts of downgrading it into a heavier Trebuchet.
@@rafale1981 Like someone once said, medium lasers are the bread and butter of the mechlab and often times they are a good way to fill tonnage when you need more firepower, so convergent 'mech designs will happen often.
i'd keep the CASE if possible. Just because it won't keep the mech running in a single engagement being able to keep the thing afterwards is veeeeeeeeery good.
People might balk at using MLas because its the cookie cutter choice but that is just how the game was made. If you took away the SRM4 and made it just 1 ML you would earn back 2 tons which could have gone towards LRM ammo. In that case it would be arguable it's a good mech. Minimal ability to finish a fight which is bad from a pickup-game standpoint, but from an in-universe perspective a completely dedicated fire support mech that can run back to rearm faster than an Archer could be valuable.
Personally I find the 05A variant to be a vast improvement, largely because it equips the high mobility/fast response artillery mech with actual artillery. The Arrow IV Artillery Missile launcher that the 05A packs has enough ammo for 20 shots/turns, allowing it to offer a MUCH longer period support to an engagement. However it's the weapon's range that most important as changes the context within which this variant of the Bombardier interacts with the battle-space: The range of the Arrow IV, like all true artillery in Classic BT, isn't measured in hexes but rather in Map Sheets, specifically it's maximum range is 8 Map Sheets.
This means that 05A is typically very far from targets/engagements it is firing at/into, ie. not on the front lines, and as such the primary ground threat that it would typically come across would be some fast Light Mechs and Medium Mechs sent to intercept. In addition while it's fallback weapons are still somewhat limited, 3 Rocket Launcher 20s(Note: Rocket Launchers are 1 shot weapons) and 1 Small Laser, any commander outside of House Steiner would have the sense to allocate some other mechs to protect the artillery and/or intercept incoming Lights. Taken along side it's still very robust armor, high speed, and increased AMS ammunition and you have a mech that has enough staying power for the kinds of engagements it's expected it would end up in.
At the end of the day the Bombardier 05A has one job: get to a place to provide Artillery/Arrow IV support fast (and possibly through terrain that make using a regular vehicle not really feasible), deliver payload, return to base, rearm, rinse and repeat until told otherwise. It's not a mech meant to get stuck in on the front lines but considering it's job is to be in the back lines this isn't an issue. It has a job and does it well, which makes it a vast improvement on most other variants.
(Sorry for the late reply) Why three rocket launcher 20s? Each one is 1.5 tons. That could be used for four medium lasers and another small laser.
@@crapshot321 I'd guess because they expect to only run into a maximum of one very small and fast enemy per sortie, and hope to kill it in one turn with the absurd burst damage the rocket launchers provide to make their resupply appointment and keep up the rhythm of cycling between the resupply point and wherever they're firing from (maybe they intend to have two of these sprinting back and forth keeping up a continuous artillery barrage?)
We had a guy in our group who used an Bombardier often. He ran it networked in to a C3i unit as a bodyguard for LRM carriers. If anyone got close he would melee them as quick as he could. And if his spotter was dropped, the Bombardier was fast enough to take over the role. It worked pretty well for him. He even got some off the wall kills.
The Drac version from the Jihad isn't terrible.
With only 6 volleys for its main weapons and less than ideal heat control and backup weapons, it's hard to find a good use for the Bombardier. Too lightly armed and equipped for frontline combat, it's best used to defend supply lines so it can rearm quickly between engagements. Sure, it's a heavy mech, but there are a LOT of better 65 ton options for a missile boat out there, like the Crusader or Catapult.
I suppose the best thing I can say about it is that it's not a Jagermech.
Looks like what discount Dan would do in a battle mech scam of his
I remember playing Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries the first few times, not good with the campaign, I'd play just the random missions and the Bombardier was one of the few heavier Mechs I could afford. It seemed like it would fire a flood of missiles making you think it was powerful but...You'd sadly see it wasn't hurting anything much and soon ran out of ammo.
Once you're out of ammo, you're golden! :P
To me, any mech based off solely ammo fed weapons with an XL engine is just asking for trouble. If they really wanted to make this a good artillery mech, they should just give it an Arrow IV. This would give it range and plenty of ammo.
There is a variant that does that
You know some SLDF general got a big payout from Takhashi Enterprises for approving this thing.
The BMB-12D makes for an excellent raider mech: to take out long range defenses for a strike lance, run back for refitment, come back to secure escape for strike lance and convoy when defending reinforcement arrive
This is a great example of a mech that, with a little TLC lives up to its name.
Downgrade the LRM launchers to 15s. Add an additional ton of ammo each. Give us MASC and replace the srm with 6 ER small lasers.
Now you have a rapid deployable mine launcher that can outrun most mediums and outfight any light fast enough to catch it.
Take two tons of FASCAM rounds and two tons of standard round and you can really mess up your opponent by denying them ground. Mind you you would never use more then a lance per battalion sized unit but it can still be very useful in this config
I love that this weird beast is all the Outworlds Alliance can build for fire support.
I laughed my way through this video, Red, very entertaining. An "Inadequate Archer" perfectly sums up this design.
I used one in MW2 Mercs for the Leitzen ice ship mission. One LRM20, one LRM15 and two LRM5s, the reload cycles allowed an almost constant hail of LRM fire to kill those peksy aeros.
Potential fix for this blunder of a mech, makes it even more specialized but whatever, ditch the srm drop the 20s for 15s and use that extra weight for more ammunition. Yes it looses its ability to defend itself in cqc but it never realistically could to begin with, least this way it can still bring respectable indirect fire capabilities for at least a semi useful amount of time.
Hello Red.
Taking another look at the design... I think I have come up with a workable solution.
To start with, we remove the SRM-4, and it's ammo. We then upgrade the Internal Structure to Endo-Steel. This nets us 6 tons of mass.
First, we double the LRM ammo, adding 2 tons and CASE to the other torso. Adding half a ton of armoring leaves us with 3 tons of mass remaining.
Three standard Medium Lasers uses that up nicely.
We now have a Bombardier with twice the ammo for it's LRMs, and enough close ranged firepower to be worth the effort. In addition, we have increased the armor a fraction as well.
Since 12 'shots' each for the LRMs will be quickly consumed, one could argue that the CASE is not really needed... in that case, one could remove both CASE systems and add yet another standard Medium Laser, thus increasing the Mech's close range firepower.
All in all, the upgrade to the Internal Structure is the most costly, although I would argue that the removal of the SRM-4 would mitigate that to some extent.
Also, this does not change the Mech's design enough to matter. Leaving it as a recognizable Bombardier.
This is a patrol mech, it's made to deal with disidents and scavengers, or conversely as a convoy skirmisher/Ammo/fuel runner. It is a support mech in every sense of the word and if paired with the floating tanks and other odd peices of its time, it makes sense as period peice but little else.
Just downgrade the LRM-20s to LRM-15s, you get more tons for ammunition. You could even allocate some of that tonnage to supporting weapons.
Over armored, over engined, and while the firepower's great, the endurance ain't.
Here's how you turn this hunk of junk into something useful:
Swap that big XL for something smaller (tho still an XL), that moves it at 64kph.
Then take off like 2-3 tons of armor, support mechs shouldn't be in the line of fire, and 8 tons of armor would serve it well enough to get out of trouble rather than standing its ground.
Oh and ditch the SRM-4 and its ammo, nothing against the SRM-4, just that on a 65 ton mech you're going to need more than one to pose a credible threat. Oh and like I mentioned, it shouldn't even be seeing CQC. There's a reason that indirect fire support mechs have energy weapons as their back-up.
The LRM-20's are fine as-is, I guess, tho I'd prefer to see 4 LRM-10's instead (slight bit of metagaming there but it's not egregious).
Use all that freed up weight for a quartet of medium lasers (the included DHS should be plenty enough for that, since you probably won't be firing the LRM-20's at the same time).
Oh and obviously, fix the most glaring issue with the Bombardier, by increasing the LRM ammo load to a total of 4 tons, 2 tons for each launcher.
This also makes it a better artillery mech, as it would be able to swap between Swarm LRM, Standard LRM, LRM ER, and... IDK, FASCAM LRM ammo. Or less types with more tons of each type, as suits the mission.
In more modern times, with the widespread prevalence of AMS and Laser AMS, it would probably be best to switch away from the LRM-20's, instead switching to many Mech Mortar launchers. Thankfully, there's still ammo options for those besides just standard ammo, and the upside is that Mech Mortars don't get intercepted by AMS for some reason.
I was able to modify one of these with double heatsinks, ferro-fibrous armor, and an XL engine, with 2 LRM 20's and enough ammo that it could fire both 12 times. It tied me over pretty well until I got my hands on enough parts to make an Archer. I even had a few extra tons, which I used to load it down with rocket launchers. I could send it into medium range and do some catastrophic damage. I can't remember what engine I gave it, but it was the second fastest mech in that lance at that time. In total though, It would launch 100 rounds at maximum. It had 2 LRM20's, 2 RL20's, and 2 RL10's. Doing so would overheat it. Nothing could be done about that. But with damage like that, with a highly trained pilot who can make sure 80%+ of the shots hit, it was worth the risk of shutting down, or worse. I did have to be careful though, I could not let this configuration get caught alone. And I had to make sure this mech moved its maximum range every turn, to keep its evasion up, just in case someone decided to take a shot at it. It had max armor, but a bad crit is a bad crit, better to not risk it. All of that said, according to the game's damage calculation, It would deal an insane amount of damage in an alpha strike. But my experience with it said it would only actually do about 3/4 of that. It had one job, make it rain, and it did that job very well.
You think they'd have just....put lrm 15s on it....and increased the ammo with the savings....lol. some times...mech design is a strange thing lol
They wanted LRM20's. Not LRM15s O.O
A mech so uninspiring that no concept artist has ever gotten to the coloring stage.
What i'd do is, if you could still make it a 5/8 is rip out the LRM's and put in 4 x SRM-6s and some lasers etc to make it as a big brawler.
Sounds like a great idea: but not what the Star League wanted XD
@@BigRed40TECH Aye, this 'Mech has all the hallmarks of being a feature of mission creep (IE replace all arty with a new wonder missile) and backroom deals with Generals who, when they retire are offered very well paid jobs for helping get the contract.
It looks like a Primitive Archer.
More like an archer too advanced for its own good. XL engines and AMS aren't easy to get or replace.
Dollar Store Archer.
I wonder wonder if you could turn it into an SRM boat? Get rid of the arm-mounted SRM launcher and make it a double Small laser or a Medium laser or something.
Get rid of the anti missile system.
Maybe give it four SRM-6 launchers.
Keep the CASE since you'll need that now.
Just brainstorming. Though if something like this works, you'd have to change the name from the Bombardier to the Blunderbuss.
We have an archer at home!:
Archer at home:
With a few changes, this thing could basically a more psychotic, less balanced Kintaro. Replace the LRM20s with as many SRM6s as possible, with ammo filling the gaps. It would still be a relatively short lived mech, but if it got anywhere near an opponent... just start throwing hands and launching missiles and watch things die.
They built a 65 ton mech that was fully dependent on highly limited ammo. That alone should have set off ALL the alarm bells. How ANYONE let this thing get past quality control is beyond me.
Not only that, was going to be the cornerstone of all of the SLDF's artillery to boot XD
I'm guessing it's because money doesn't just talk it intox....icates and clouds judgement.
So my original exposure to this 'Mech was in Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. I literally loaded the damn thing with as many medium lasers as the game could handle, then went around one shotting everything.
Just for this, it will always have a special place in my heart.
The Archer at home.
Well, if there was anyone who was good at building underperforming equipment based on made-up scenarios that made them seem good, it was the Star League.
Edit: Gah, it's literally just a faster, more expensive, less capable Archer. I bet they made BANK on that defense contract, though.
to me it seems like its a mech made to temporarily fill a gap against, light mechs, vehicles, and infantry. to rush to a gap where massed light forces are attempting to stream through and just saturate the area until better forces can arrive and plug that hole in the lines before returning to base for restocking. in short it's a stopgap mech. bullying away anything lighter than it but incapable of punching at, let alone above its weight
If they had dropped the LRM20s to 15s, that would free up 3 tons per launcher for ammo. More than enough given you really only need 2 tons per LRM15 launcher, so you get another 2 tons to do what you want with. Its such a simple fix that i just can't see any reason not to do it other than stubbornness and refusal to give up the advantage Swarm and Thunder LRMs get from the larger launcher. As for cannon variants, the 14K might work? it strips out all the weapons and replaces the Launchers for 4MML7s and 5 tons of ammo paired with a C3 slave and 3MGs in a array,. The ammo is divided into 3 tons of LRM 2 of SRM. That still leaves it anemic on SRM ammo only having enough for 7 turns of fire, but it has 12 turns of LRM ammo. Not great, but double that of the standard Bombardier, and if the target is C3'd then it will get the best use of its ammo.
If they did a lot of things it'd be better.
But that's not what the Star League wanted.
How much better are swarm and thunder in bigger launchers?
Can an artemis 15 launch thunder?
@@DIEGhostfish Swarm LRMs effectively give missiles that miss in the cluster roll a chance to hit a secondary adjacent target, this repeats until there are no secondary targets or missiles left. Ergo the bigger the launcher the better, but you still have to land hits first. Its basically a very weird streak system. Thunder LRMs are minefield missiles, on success in hitting a hex they create a minefield with damage equal to the launcher size, with a maximum of 20. So a LRM20 is 25% better at making minefields than a LRM15.
@@DIEGhostfish No Artemis is incompatible with both missile systems. In fact Artemis only works with standard Artemis missiles, nothing else.
I have never heard of this thing, and I can tell why
This thing is an Archer on meth, about the time teeth fall out. It does have a legacy- the Wolf's Dragoon and maybe the Stiener Archers, but even if they reduce the armour they still are worth more than these things. I'd rather be caught dead in a Charger than alive in a Bombadier.
I honestly don’t get why they wouldn’t just change the LRM 20s for two LRM 15s and use the extra tonnage for more ammo and a pair of medium lasers in the arms. Hell, you could even upgrade the SRM 4 to a SRM 6 and have it brawl a bit better if all else fails. I get that these changes can be tricky, but after sinking so much money into R&D and all the other costs, it would be money well spent if the mech became at least somewhat marketable.
I can think of so many ways to refit this mech and make it useful again.
The Bombardier is one of the Mechs ever made. Truly a moment of mechanical engineering.
It's hard to make a good 5/8 'Mech at 65 tons. You've either got to go 4/6, or accept the fact that you're only going to have one gun. This thing is going against not only the Archer, but the Crusader and Catapult, too. It was doomed to fail from the start.
I'd argue the Crusader and Catapult are pretty good. Same with the Thunderbolt really...
@@BigRed40TECH Yes they are, and they're all 4/6. Guess I should clarify the original comment. It's easier to make a decent 5/8 'Mech at 70 or 75 tons than at 65.
The Bombardier is useful in exactly one instance: when you don't have any other mech and you really, really need one right now.
At least you could upgrade a Urbie to be useful.
2 LRM-20s with 1 ton of ammo each? Sounds like the best way to make this mech adequate is to downgrade the LRMs to -15 racks and use the freed tonnage for more ammo (2 tons is usually enough for one LRM-15) and possibly Medium Lasers. Weapon only refits are typically easy in Battletech compared to doing things like changing out engines or heat sink types.
Edit: If you want to go for the pure cheese optimization, change out each LRM-20 for an LRM-15 and LRM-5 combo. Same throw weight, but 1 ton freed up per swap for additional LRM ammo. 3 tons of LRM-15 ammo and 1 ton of LRM-5 ammo will give all launchers 12 shots which is considered adequate for a single battle of barely so.
I had the same idea with medium lasers, but dropped the SRM-4 with it's ammo, AMS, and a ton of armor for 3 of them and 2 more tons of LRM reloads. It's WAY over-defended for it's performance. The LRM-15 + 5 combo to save an additional ton is a good idea, but I was more going for a canon redesign, which I don't recall seeing that idea intentionally used to save weight, even if it is more sensible in some cases.
If I want to cheese the original design i would rather replace the 2 LRM20s with 8 LRM5s. The base design is already oversinked thanks to 10 doubles in the engine, and the heat penalty for the smaller launchers still doesn't cross that threshold unless you are firing the SRMs as well. And with 4 tons saved, you can still get your extra 2 tons of ammo, along with CASE to protect the other side torso, an additional Engine Heatsink for if you really think you need it (you probably don't) and a small laser to round out that extra half ton. Plus the whole thing costs about 220,000 C-bills (which is around $2.5 million in current fun bucks) less per unit.
Hold on... why would someone design a support mech to be fast? Average is fine for a support mech - what you want is damage at range. See: Catapult, Archer, certain loadouts of the Stalker, Trebuchet, and for direct fire support the Annihilator, Warhammer, Rifleman... it goes on and on. It's fine being heavily armoured and fast, but if you put only enough ammo into it to fire one or two shots, it's rather pointless. You don't run around in a support mech, you pick a point and wander around there, banging off shots. This is a crazy design.
This, basically, just seems to be a warcrimes machine. The best you can expect for it is to sprint in, level a hospital or city block, and then bug out. It's not going to handle anything meaningful in terms of another 'mech. Maybe some vehicles? Aircraft? But... the other mechs can do that too. And better. WHAT IS THIS THING?!?!?
Hard pass. Unless I wanted to start a theme park with a 'mech-shoulder ride - you could put rollercoaster cars on the back of it, I suppose. It's not going to make it's c-bills back, though.
It's a warcrime machine, and one that's not even good at it.
I guess they wanted something that could support a lighter lance.
@@DIEGhostfish yeah, but… catapult? That’s the same weight and can do a better job of supporting a lighter lance than this thing can, I’d say. Then you’ve got the (quite dire in my opinion) Jaegermech and the (far better) Thunderbolt…
Just seems to me that a lot of the design choices made for this thing don’t add up. A heavily armoured (good) fast (keep going!) mech that can… fire maybe twice before needing to retire for reload and refit (GODDAMNIT).
Like I say, I think a supporting platform - especially one built around indirect fire capability - doesn’t *need* to be fast, because it has the range to punish an enemy from wherever it is standing at the time. A light lance would still be better served being backed up by, for instance, a catapult, which can smack the bad guys around from wherever it’s standing without worrying about speed. And it can do it for longer, and it can do it better.
Failing that, aerospace assets or vehicles might be the thing to send with the lance.
I dunno. It’s all speculation either way, I suppose. Maybe this thing was the mistake that needed to be made so that better solutions could be produced. So that’s one thing in it’s favour: it’s so useless that it showed people what not to do.
Your point is a good one though, don’t get me wrong - I don’t disagree. It probably - almost certainly in fact - was what they were aiming for!
The concept (fast fire support) is sound, so long as it is executed properly. Being able to keep up with more mobile battles or to quickly reposition to confuse opponents are both major pluses. Especially as late in the Star League era the proliferation of weight saving technologies was threatening to change the standards of what is and isn't fast. Having your own high mobility fire support on the field before anyone else bothered to do the R&D to make it could have been a major asset...
If not for the fact that the Bombardier was horribly ill-suited to the role. Sure, it had the speed. But on a unit whose mission will likely involve advancing well ahead of supply lines you would want deeper ammo bins, not the sub-standard ammo load the Bombardier carries. There is also the foolishness of choosing the 65-ton weight class for this purpose, as the ideal tonnage for the Bombardier's speed is 60 tons (55 if you also want to mount jets). This folly is exacerbated by the fact that the Trebuchet and Griffin already existed, updating their designs would have been a significantly cheaper option.
Not even. It had a weird set of expectations. The SLDF was cancer a lot of the time. lol
The only way to "properly" downgrade the Bombardier basically turns it into either a Catapult or a softer Archer.
So: too specialized in its original form, carries far too little ammo and it utterly failed to live up to the overly optimistic hopes and dreams of the SLDF...
And it' very realistic in that regard. How many times has military procurement fucked up and approved total shit?
FASAengineering strikes again! The Arrow IV version used by the Outworlds Alliance is probably the best of out of the variants, simply due to matching the original design requirements. The Bombadier was one another example of the profligate military experimentation and overspending the SLDF was allowed due to its immense resources. It's never a good sign for a mech when a Periphery power, 250 + years later, makes a better version then the largest military organization ever seen. Especially when that organization could have done the same thing. When the Quickdraw looks like a better option to pilot, you should really go back to your development board and request a new unit.
You figure someone would put a hatchet in its hands or put a laser on one of the arms if it does so well with heat mitigation.
Captain, someone set us up the bomb.
Ah. The F-35 of mechs.
Oh this is an easily fixed issue. MML's/downgrading to 15's, and dropping the SRM-4 for a pair of MdLas will help this issue.
*Politics, politics never changes*
God, the Bombardier. It's such a bad mech, but it has an easy fix: Downgrade the LRM-20 to -15 to double the ammo and add a couple of medium lasers. This works on both the standard model and the downgrade too. On the downgrade, this also deals with the heat issues by bracketing the weapons systems. 2 ML + SRM-4 is 9 heat, 2 LRM-15s is 10 heat, so you only have to manage the movement heat. It still wouldn't be a great mech, but it would actually be usable.
Bombardier, I only know it from the one really short time i played MW2: Mercs. I didnt know what it was, but it was there and it was heftier than the Panther they had me in, so im like, sure. I dont recall it endearing itself to me.....I later got a stalker and wasnt a fan of how hot it ran.....or how slow it was.
and yeah, LRM-20s. Younger me was all about them big ol' guns. Older me prefers LRM15s or 10s, especially IS variants. Sure, you lose some raw damage, but you gain a few tons for extra ammo or other systems. Much like how i dont like AC20s or Gauss Rifles. They require such a huge investment in weight and space, but you wind up sorely lacking somewhere on your mech to accommodate them. Be it, not enough armor, running to hot, cuz you put ammo instead of heatsinks, or you lose out on back up weapons....in games like Mechwarrior 5, those bigger weapons also have long cooldown times or in the case of the AC-20 really god awful ballistic handling. Gauss is good, but I dont like its cooldown timer. You cant be standing around for 7 seconds reloading a Gauss rifle, when your swarmed by tanks and mechs. ID rather have AC10 or a pair of Large Lasers to put out the fire at a higher rate, while also having hte tonnage to actually make my mech more than a walking sniper rifle.
14C is pretty good. FedCom Civil War era. I'd rock it. But if you're playing with things like logistics and force lists that actually have to make sense within the era that you are playing in, then yeah, it might be a little more difficult to justify using it or having it.
I think the 14C is kinda average, but it's a definitely improvement over allllll the rest.
The Bombardier took Missile Boating too seriously it turned into a Missile Ferry
The thing that truly makes this one of the worst mechs is the silly head turret that doesn't contain any actual weapon.
I'd say the Urbanmech is superior to this because the Urbanmech can actually fill a niche yet the Bombardier feels almost like it was designed in a day and sold without testing.
It's an AMS sir! Super invaluable! XD
That’s a Lindblad Shotgun AMS, sir.
the concept is good, having a fast response lrm support with its own build in missile protection for counter artillery/missile fire. ammo and no proper close defense are weaknesses but its armored and can run away. its way too expensive for what it is though.
When I took a solid look at the Bombardier, at its variants, I said one thing: Damn, this thing is an assassin, seems perfect for the Periphery though.
Learning this was supposed to be such an exemplary advance in military doctrine, I completely cannot look at this thing seriously. I'm surprised we don't have pirate refits from the Circinus Federation or Lyrans to make it less awful.
I love the fact that is what it was supposed to be, but it failed so badly. So catastrophically, that the manufacturer just literally went "fuck this thing" lol
So the Terran Hegemony cancelled the run of the Catapult in 2563 and 172 years later, their direct successors in the SLDF commissioned this, despite Catapults still being in service and receiving upgrades. Says a lot about their future planning & procurement departments...
So bad that even the original manufacturers were willing to let the design be extinct despite actually having enough know how to create replacement parts? Especially in a setting where finding intact pristine tech is a godsend?
...Damn. This is like the Archer's bullied little bro.
Is that music from the old Mech commander game? I could be wrong, but I played that game religiously back in the day and loved the bg music..
remember: this mech manages to be one of if not the worst mech... in a universe that has the urbie
I only ever used them as Combat Engineers - FASCAM and Infernos. AMS swapped for Flamer/Fluid Gun- definitely not a frontline unit.
Soooo. Tell us how you really feel about this :P
It looks like a dollar store archer with a marauder's cannon slapped onto it.
So what I'm hearing is it's just a fast but totally ammo reliant archer
Ammo reliant, and with almost no ammunition onboard, Archer.
@@BigRed40TECH understandable, have a nice day
I'm not a very smart mech jockey.
But.
With the lost tech added back on, wouldn't this be fine if you downgraded the LRM 20's to 15's? Then use the extra tonnage to add additional missiles?
Hello Red.
Although everything you've said about this Mech design is true, the Mech can be saved as a battlefield unit.
Starting with the BMB-14C, built in 3062, one needs to remove the Mech's C3 system, and all the Mech's weaponry, to start again. This time, installing a pair of LRM-15's, 2 tons of ammo for each, and finally a pair of standard Large Lasers.
To make this work, one also has to remove 1 ton of Armor as well. However, this ends up with enough space saved to add TSM to the design, making it more dangerous in close combat scenarios.
The Endo-Steel, and 325 XL Engine remain the same, so the Mech does not have any change in its speed profile.
Although it hits less hard at long range, and is slightly less protected overall, it is still a very fast Mech for its weight class, and with the addition of TSM, is more dangerous at close combat range.
Adding the pair of standard Large Lasers gives the Mech a way to a fair amount of damage at medium and short ranges, allowing the Mech to open holes in an enemy's already sandpapered armor.
Although needing to balance the use of the installed weapons, a good pilot should be able to 'ride the curve' and still be a threat in combat. Up close, the Mech can fire both Large Lasers and run around without heat issues. Again, the Mech can run and reposition itself over and over again, and fire both LRM launchers without issue.
It is the foolhardy pilot that attempts to use all four weapons systems at once that can cause massive heat issues to deal with, and the Mech should only be assigned to pilots with some experience to get the most out of the re-design.
Frank Smedley, Chief Tech, Hellsport Mech Museum, Stygian System.
I don't cover custom-mechs though. :\
Custom mechs aren't really the mech. Any mech can be salvaged if its just transformed into a different mech. It's just not what I cover. :)
@@BigRed40TECH : I agree, that they are not 'the Mech'... but in this case, all I really did was down-sized the LRM launchers and add a couple of beam weapons.
Maybe I’m an idiot but I would just drop the SRM and it’s ammo for like a pair of MG’s or Small Lasers, for anti-vehicle and anti-infantry and then spend the rest on LRM ammo, it’s quick enough to dip when things get close range and should be a decent quick fire support.
I've seen some weird designs, the thorn, the Hussain, this one is not quite as wierd as those 2 but it is close enough to be considered "on the spectrum". All to often good ideas do not equate to practical application and "niche" mechs rarely end up the "niche" they were designed for because commanders simply do not own "crystal balls". Better to take a proven design and equip it for those "niche" encounters rather than design an entire line of useless "niche" mechs.
If you want your ARC-2R to be able to brawl give it some brawling weapons and remove some lurm ammo, it's always a trade off.