Explaining to Jonathan what an "Ogryn" is to give a sense of how MASSIVE their weapons are will definitely be doing down as a career highlight for me! I hope you enjoy this one, fellow Warhammer 40,000 nerds, as much as I did making it and watching him react in real time to some of these weapons.... We also did a deep-dive into the Bolter a couple years ago, and explained more about the real-world Gyrojet weapons that inspired some of the very earliest Space Marine weaponry (complete with some potentially familiar faces : th-cam.com/video/Glu0GmyTJyo/w-d-xo.html
A small detail in 40k gun lore that I love. The Lawbringer Shotgun, used by Arbites (The Police in 40k) Was designed, to have as LOUD of a cocking as possible. So when they manually pump it, its meant to be very loud, for intimidation purposes, since that's meant to be used against mainly Civilian targets, for who the very loud *CHUNK CHUNK* is very intimidating
The Ripper Gun is actually designed specifically for the Ogryn. It's abnormally chunky for the sake of durability, since Ogryns are well known to use their weapons as bludgeons whenever anyone gets close, and you want a gun that still fires after you smash someone in the face with it.
@@sev1120 And I immediately understood why they had to install that limiter the first time i fired that thing. It is hilariously fun to just empty the magazine on full auto, so yes it is completely understandable why they would have used up all their ammo in 15 seconds.
also Ogryns are way too stooopid to use aiming sights on grenade launcher. So it just there, flapping about, not because developers didnt make it functional. But because Ogryns dont use that
Im a little surprised he didnt reference old vintage wheel lock maces, clubs, and axes. As they were manufactured in old times but i could imagine the gun is shot first to avoid miscalibration from a hard melee hit. Or shot second if near point blank range.
Jonathan gets little smirk and his eyes light up when he's describing the theoretical action of these crazy guns. This man loves what he does and I love him for it.
Boltguns use a sort of hybrid ammunition. You have an initial propellent charge, like normal real life ammunition, that fires the round down the barrel where it engages with the rifling of the barrel then the rocket engine kicks in as it leaves the barrel. Bolters in the books and lore have a distinctive "bang, roar" sound from the initial charge going then the rocket engine firing.
Bolt guns are effectively RPG 7’s in function, but housed in a “gun like structure” for ease of use. And the RPG 7 in the Soviet Union was considered a grenade launcher propelled by a rocket. So Jonathan is not wrong calling it a grenade launcher.
makes sense really, the problem with the Gyrojet was it had no power at close and close-medium ranges because the round had to get up to speed. Bolter solves this by having an initial regular whatever they use for making guns go bang charge. I dont want to say powder or cordite because for all I know there is a canon handwave chemical that makes guns go bang.
Why are they blocky ? Some people might have forgotten that this started as a miniature game, so those things had to be easy enough to sculpt, cast, easily replicable and recognizable from a distance while playing, so all the details were fairly chunky.
To add onto this, the molding tech nowadays allows for less blocky bits. Look at the 'new' Sisters of Battle line, and there's a lot of small details that weren't able to be done 20-30 years ago. A lot of the iconic stuff in 40K was made back when what you said was applicable, so even though they _can_ pull off more 'elegant' styles, it would change the look of 40K.
@@leadpaintchips9461 I think the new Cadians offer the best comparison for how much finer stuff has gotten. The lasguns are much sleeker and have so much more small details!
@@leadpaintchips9461 plus they really did not care at all about actually ‘working weapons’ - they all had bizarre huge magazines coming out the front of the gun etc haha. it was just ‘little space soldier must look cool’ not the tacticool, perhaps overly thought over, semi realistic designs we see today.
The sculpting limitations are part of it but you also have the issue of small miniatures and readability. They’re essentially toy soldiers with guns and you want to see the guns. So to make them more visible and read better, you have to change the proportions. If you take the miniature and scale it up to full size those changes in proportion become more apparent. Eventually it just becomes part of the aesthetic.
Something that impressed me with the shotgun is that you can use it for long range targets. It never magically disappears at a distance but carries on to whatever you aim at.
There were two patterns of lasrifle present here: the Kantrael pattern and the Lucius pattern. The Kantrael pattern is the Cadian favored one, it's capable of semi-auto and full-auto shooting. It's fairly standard. The Lucius pattern is the Krieg weapon of choice. The Krieg themselves have a very WW1 German aesthetic, so the weapon doesn't look all that modern. However, the Lucius pattern is capable of semi-auto shooting with the ability to overcharge their lascells (the magazines) for more powerful shots at the expense of the longevity of the battery.
@@astratan2238 The German inspiration becomes very apparent through the name though. Krieg being the german word for War obviously (or not so obvious).
@@StabYourBrain But there's little past that, the gasmask, helmet that's mixed with the french and maybe some banners. That's really it. They're more of an aglormeration of the western front than any country in particular.
13:17 Gotta love how sometimes the Ogryn reload animations are different for the ripper. Sometimes he bumps the mag into the rail and sometimes he tries to put the magazine backwards, before turning it the right way.
Tap that mag to make sure there's no dust in it. Otherwise it won't work 😉 Could be an m16 mag reference imo But thats a little too far for the devs to make it like that 😅
I'm so glad Jonathan brought up that the cocking handle of the top gun on the twin Heavy Stubber being attached to the bottom one so they're pulled together would make sense, because Ogryns really do have enough strength that pulling both at the same time wouldn't be an issue for them!
So the reason 40k weapons are so bulky, other than obvious rule of cool aesthetics, are because they're basically all cast in a single construction in giant manufactories that almost no one understands how they work
Adding to this; the reason conventional round weapons exist is tied to this too. Nobody knows how to make anything, so your ability to manufacture arms is heavily limited by whatever presets your local manufactorum is loaded with. Autoguns and stubbers as they are known are heavily outdated, people KNOW this, but sometimes its the only option they have
@@Freekymoho I also like to think that the aesthetics have become the prime concern in the Imperium. Bulky and blocky looks brutal and practical, and so that appearance is supposed to inspire faith that it is so.
It's because this aesthetics came from miniatures. It is quite problematic to mass produce (and for players - build and paint) very small and detailed objects. I do note, however, that new models released by GW are more complex in form and less blocky - just look at recently revealed guardsmen for example. As for the lore, they certainly do know and understand how firearms (and lasers, boltguns, mortars, explosives, etc) operate. Most problems with understanding technology occurs when it comes to complex archeotech. There are a lot of different patterns of autoguns with different advancement levels exists: from basic automatic rifles with cased ammunition to caseless electrothermal APFSDS throwers that are capable of penetrating carapace or even power armour. It all comes to resources, tools and specialists avaible.
Maybe the reason the revolver has that bar “reloader” that gets ignored in favor of gravity is because the revolver isn’t necessarily always used in a gravitational field. A very astute observation from Mr. Gun! Very insightful video, and quite enjoyable.
or it just was functional 10k years ago, but now it is just here, but not working (like, welded, riveted, casted as one part with the drum, or stuck somehow else) because manufactorum malfunctioned millennia ago
Idk if Jonathan reads the comments but the Lasgun is such a fun weapon because it is cheap to make and very sturdy kind of like the 40K version of a Kalashnikov. But my favorite Lasgun trivia is that the magazines have solar charging capabilities so you can put it out on a sunny day and it charges a few shots but they also can be taken out of the weapon and thrown like a grenade.
Guardsmen in desperate scenarios are known to heat their las-packs in camp fires. This does reduce the lifespan of them though which can carry a penalty as severe as field-execution, depending on who catches you.
@@sciarpecyril I think it depends on what pattern. on some you can just throw the battery/magazine on some you need or get a larger boom by using the gun to. plus the general what quality the battery is at. if its factory fresh from a good factory whit a good pattern you probebly need to use the rifle. if its old maybe just the battery is enouth. remmber a guardsman thats issued a lasgin and 2 batteries. might have a 20 year old rifle, and one battery is 1000 years old while the other one came out of the factory 5 min ago.
@@Zack_Wester, this whole thing is done by overloading the lasgun, while the battery provides energy for an explosion. The lasgun cannot make explosion stronger since it contains no energy, but it has capacitors and other systems that can potentially explode if overcharged. The method in described in one of early Gaunt's Ghosts novels and requires both the weapon and the battery. Therefore it considered by guardsmen to be used only in the direst of situations, because you lose your main weapon in the process.
One thing to mention about why Lasguns are visually similar to the ballistic guns: Familiarity for the soldier using it. You can put a lasgun and a stubber next to one another and someone who is trained in the use of either one will generally be capable of recognizing and operating the other.
This also explains the visual recoil in the Cadian units. They're given recoil simulators so Joe Shmoe on the feudal world with the crossbow, Dave whose been fighting in the underhive gangs since he was 6, and the pedigree Sir Author Wheniburgun raised in the scholora can all instantly get used to the weapon after using typical slugrifles. The Helbore/Lucius pattern at least has a bit of a reason considering it's lascannon-esque charge system, that much energy disperssal has got to have a kick.
I think everyone is forgetting a key point, they are guns. And for the same reason that crossbows and muskets look like guns you will get similar features. - why a trigger and not a firing stud? because a trigger conforms to a finger and a firing stud is a little uncomfortable after two hours of use and a little hard to reliably activate while in combat. -why is the battery pack where a magazine would be. Well, because you are going to have to change charge pack, and it's convient to have it right there.
well, the actual reason they have recoil in game is because they tested having no recoil as would be realistic, and the players just said it felt weird and incomplete.@@gratuitouslurking8610
That shotgun is an in-universe police shotgun. I believe the SPAS-15 (which has a magazine) was originally designed for police, but police organizations saw it and said "no, we need a feed port and pump action so we can spontaneously load different ammo" and Franchi went back to the drawing board and made the SPAS-12. You could say this shotgun is inspired by weapons like the SPAS-12, which is semi-automatic but still has a manual pump.
also want to note that there is a LOT of Judge Dredd's arbitrator shotgun in the design. which is great because the shotgun it's an iconic weapon used by the Adeptus Arbites (which are also known as Arbitrators and are the Judges of the 40k universe). Just another example of how even though a lot of things copied from 40k, 40k tended to copy a lot of other things that came before it.
The SPAS-15 is actually the successor to the SPAS-12, and maintains the ability to switch between pump and semi-auto, while replacing the tube magazine with a standard box mag. It is also about a pound lighter.
11:02 so theres actually an explanation for this and for why bolters eject brass. While they do have a gyrojet style rocket it activates as the bolt round leaves the barrel, the initial propulsion is done via standard powder in a brass cartridge exploding. The rocket part is just rule of cool and it extends the range
That's definitely not only inspired by, but actually supposed to be a Browning M2. Technological decay is a theme of 40k, and the design of the M2 being in use for 38 thousand years is part of the charm.
Would love to see a look at Deep Rock Galactic. From the fairly grounded like the Scout's assault rifle or the Gunner's revolver, to the action movie classics like the Driller's flamethrower or the Gunner's minigun, to the total sci-fi like the Driller's cryo gun or wave cooker, it's got a little bit of everything.
An interesting note on the Heavy Stubbers rounds looking like .50 cal, they basically are. The M2 Browning is so good they are using it thousands of years later.
@@jooot_6850 The only thing they could really improve is the materials for longer spells between maintenance/cleaning and better propellant for the .50 BMG, the gun itself doesn't need to be changed as it's fine as it is.
@@MegaRazorback Pretty much. They could make the gun more durable, lighter, and maybe eek out some better ballistics with more advanced propellants, but yeah the gun is so reliable and simple; it's perfect for a massive galaxy spanning military. You want something that can lay down heavy fire, reliably and cheaply, for trillions of gunners. There is no better option than the M2.
So glad Jonathan is reacting to this, I love both 40k itself and this game, it's really interesting to see what expert thinks about weapons that exist in the universe.
The games has done 2 things amazingly. The Sound Track (and sounds in general) And the guns The music and sound effects are all amazing, and the Guns look and feel right.
@@gchecosse I think it's already described by his own job. You can't be a keeper of firearms and artillery without atleast knowing how it works and function, but also how to fixed/restore them. Many gun related museum curators actually "collaborated" with actual military instructors to see whether the gun is still working conditions or not also with a bit live gun shooting experience. If it's working just fine especially on current era of weapons, the military will keep it, but if it's already become quite frail for long time amount of use in combat/practice, then the museum will restore it and keep it in their armory. For an older type of gun, the museum will generally keep it. I can be wrong but that's the current answers that I knew of, so you can correct me in the future if I'm wrong.
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
No offense but that is the most illogical gobbledygook I have read in a while. Even if what you said is lore, it's a dumb and nonsensical way to have a rocket go where you want it. The computing power needed to do that versus any basic target systems is like using a modern supercomputer to play tetris.
17:44 I love how he calls out the design element of the weapon as French, as recent depictions of the Death Korps of Krieg have most definitely leaned further into French WW1 moreso than the Greman WW1 the casual fan may think of them to be based in. The lasgun pictured here is the Lucius Pattern Lasgun, aka the primary lasgun used by the Death Korp to the point it was in their new-age plastic models.
Indeed. I think it's the neck guard and long coat that a casual observer would associate with german aesthetics due to the more well-known profile from ww2, unaware that many countries used similar designs, especially in ww1, simply because it was practical. The helmets even have the same kind of broad rounded ridge on top that the archetypical french ww1 helmets had.
The braced autogun functions by having you tuck it into the crook of your arm, like the manual of arms for a BAR during an assault phase. The other autoguns have you shoulder the weapon for aiming down the sights. And the ammo it spits is unknown. A Vraksian pattern autogun used something called "8mm Long" cartridges, and the ammo on the Veteran's armor looks by size and proportions to be close to .338 Lapua. Considering the threats the Imperium faces (necessitating such things as the bolter), I'd say it's in the 8mm full cartridge case range.
Love these videos. Don't suppose Jonathon could have a look at the weapons of Deep Rock Galactic? There's eighteen unique guns in the game (three primary weapons and three secondary weapons for each of the four classes), and each gun has lots of "overclocks" that can completely change the effects of the gun.
@@TheWildSlayer Haven't looked into it myself, but the game has lots of mods, so there could be a way to "cheat" overclocks onto the guns. But I don't think they'd be necessary for a video like this, really.
One thing he didn't mention with the grenade launcher gauntlet that I noticed is that the wearer seems to actually be able to detonate the grenade in the barrel for a sort of shotgun effect while in melee
@@sirshotty7689 Well, it isn't really. The Ogryn can smash stuff with the Grenadier Gauntlet itself and can also choose when to use the special mode which is smash + fire a grenade. Ogryn are below human intelligence but they're not complete imbeciles.
@@user-rr5ce1wb2j "below human intelligence" they seem about the same in my experience, in fact id say the average ogryn has a higher probability of being smarter than an average human. they definitely last longer than standard guardsmen do anyways. And just for that remark against the emperors greatest gift to mankind I hope you and your next five generations get sent to a penal legion in the Segmentum Obscurus!
@@user-rr5ce1wb2j And the players Ogryn have the Bonehead implant which makes them smarter than the average Ogryn, could probly count all the way to 6 if you gave them a few hints.
Fun fact the bolter rounds also have a powder charge which fires when you pull the trigger, then the rockets activate after the bolt has exited the weapon
The Lucius pattern lasgun has a lot of pieces of WW1 firearms, such as the receiver is inspired by the BAR and the other pieces mentioned in the video respectively. It’s usually used by the Death Korps of Krieg since they are the representation of WW1 incarnate since even their uniforms is a mix of different nations of WW1 as well.
Myself and a couple friends that play have actually started called the Twin Heavystubber the "Deuce Deuce" since it's basically 2 M2 Ma Deuce guns hooked up and it just fits how Ogryn would call it
I used to be a machinegun guy in the army and have used the .50 cal and the 7.5ish mm guns. The twinstubber is the most satisfing weapon in darktide and brings back the joyful grin to my face.. it feels kinda right.
The amount of respect Jonathan gives to every universe and world truly makes this series one of the best on youtube. He is a legend through and through.
When it comes to the Bolter there's so many versions and interpretations. My favorite is the hybrid interpretation where the projectile itself is still a gyrojet, but it's initially propelled from the gun like a traditional bullet so that it has sufficient speed at close range but still accelerates down range via the rocket exhaust.
That slow launch speed was one of the failings of gyojets... Bolter ammo is more like mini RPG-7 projectiles, the rocket motor on an RPG-7 is the central section, ie the front half of the spigot, the rear half of the spigot is a launching charge, to throw the projectile down range before the rocket kicks in, this prevents the shooter getting hit with rocket backwash, and gives a better launch velocity. Bolter rounds are basically a variation on this, think .50 cal gyroget ammo with a delayed ignition loaded into a shotgun cartridge, loaded into a box/drum/belt feed on an automatic shotgun...
There's something almost therapeutic in watching someone talk about a subject he is both incredibly knowledgable and passionate about, and Jonathan combines that with natural charm and giddy nerdyness, and that makes him my favorite 'expert reacts' guy on youtube.
The flamer's burst function reminds me a bit of the AK's design, i.e. having full auto in the middle of the selector lever and semi auto at the bottom so the conscripts wouldn't panic and empty a whole magazine uncontrolled. The player characters in Darktide are also conscripts after all
This episode is one of the best ones that Jonathan did imo, you can see that he is really interested in Wh40k. Hope that they hire him as an advisor in the future.
The bolt gun in my opinion is FatSharks greatest achievement in guns for shooting games. the feel, the weight, the sounds it makes by just moving it. and lets not forget firing it is super satisfying. any companies looking to make Warhammer game and want to make a bolter, should look at this as the starting point.
For the laser rifle, I would say, it is better for us in the real world to cosmetically look like our other firearms so that when training soldiers to fire them, they already have the training from basic to operate the laser rifle, so reloading and handling should be relatively similar yet different since you are still operating a more complex item than your standard weapons…
When I first started playing Darktide, I wondered why some weapons clearly lack stocks despite being somewhat oversized, like flamers and bolters. Then it dawned on me, the bolter is designed for space marines. Space Marines need to be able to use bolters one handed so they can use their swords or other melee weapons at the same time. It fits really well when you go in depth into the lore.
I really respect that rather than just offering a compare and contrast to real historical/modern arms, that he's willing to engage with the lore's internal logic as much as he does-- very cool
One important note that I'm not sure was conveyed to Jonathan was how every every single weapon in 40k is a higher caliber than anything used today. The autogun's smallest cartridge is "8.25mm long". The ogryn shotguns are essentially firing tank canister rounds. Also the Lucius pattern lasgun is the signature weapon of the Deathkorps of krieg. The WWI aesthetic guardsmen regiment.
I was hoping to god you guys would cover Darktide's guns. So much attention to detail. Stuff like, in some guns you can see the level of ammunition in the magazines change. Would have liked to see him react to the Ogryn's using the guns as clubs, haha
It might not be directly relevant to the video, but that demonstration of the heavy stubber just being sustained fire for like 30 seconds straight is fun. All the other demos are running around and plonking a few rounds, but then there's this one heavy fire just going on for ages. Heavy stubber is far and away my favorite ogryn gun.
Jonathan understanding video game guns and not being super critical is always awesome to me. Instead of knocking it he likes to have fun with his imagination. Literally the only reason I watch this channel is because of him.
I'm impress at how much he actually likes what they did with the weapons despite it being a scifi fantasy game. I love how despite 40k being very over the top, they do still have a lot of attention to detail.
The lasguns magazines are just battery packs and the recoil is due to the superheated gas release at the front; as for the gun looking like that is because of the focusing crystal for the laser.
Ferguson sounds like he had a lot of fun with this one. Wonder if Evil West can be folded in with a "Weird West" special. I dunno if it has too many on its own, but maybe you can throw in Darkwatch, an addendum for The Hunt:Showdown, The Order 1886... I dunno.
you can visualize how absolutely strong the Ogryns are from the fact that they can hipfire, not one, but 2 M2 browning at once that is a full auto .50BMG that is firing 2 barrels in sequence of a total of 120 shots without stopping we put those in cars to use them, they just hold it like an LMG
little mistake on the Bolter, it is a Rocket in a casing, the hammer strikes the Primer that shoots out the round and when it Left the Barrel the mini Rocket ignites and then goes in to its Target penetrates and explodes inside its target, that is how Bolters Work, unless they changed it again
Usually in the 40k world, revolvers and other guns that use ammo are used by less advanced or lower budget armies like Gangers, militia, Orks, or cultists. They're called "stubbers" because they fire little stubs instead of bolts or shells or lasers. Or "Sluggas" because they fire lead slugs. There are automatic pistols, autorifles, and the machineguns called Heavy Stubbers, traditionally .50 caliber. (There aren't enough pages in the 40k rulebook to list all the different calibers of guns, so they lump them together for simplicity.) There are ways to make a single action revolver fire "fully automatically" but they're not safe at all. :)
Gears of War has been mentioned so SO many times by Jonathan, there should be an episode from it already. I swear I heard about it about 5-6 times throughout the 1-1,5 year.
Helbore lasgun looks very similar to M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle - to be more precise - it looks exactly like a 1917's prototype, which had flash supressor and bayonet. The only one existing prototype rifle now can be seen in the Winchester company's gun museum in New Haven.
1:54 it's funny he mentions this because there's another (more hard sci-fi at that) setting called 2300AD, where more efficient means of propulsion are used. There's the obvious Gauss weapons, as well as binary propellent which mixes 2 separate inert gasses which combine explosively to propel the bullet, and conventional weapons which fire a caseless round with the bullet embedded in a solid cylinder of propellent.
What I thought was funny about the heavy stubber, was that I assumed “twin linked” meant it was electrical, and more sophisticated. not just jamming two barrels on the same old gun
The closest thing to a bolt gun that's actually used today is probably base-bleed or rocket assisted projectiles in modern artillery. You still pack about as much boom into the initial firing charge as the gun can withstand, then use a little solid propellant gas generator to keep the shell's velocity up.
A ton of Warhammer 40k weapons, especially the Imperial Guard's, are explicitly designed to evoke the aesthetic of various historical weapons and conflicts.
I think I have to issue some corrections to the common perception about bolters. They're patently NOT Gyrojets. A Gyrojet accelerates a projectile from zero to its full velocity with four rocket motor vents that give it a spin. A bolter has a cartridge that launches the projectile at already lethal speeds and a single sustainer motor that accelerates it even further once it's cleared the barrel. Essentially like a M549 or XM1113 artillery shell, or a Sturmtiger shell. Essentially, a bolter is a 10ga automatic shotgun that shoots rocket-assisted explosive tipped slugs. The cartridge is a full brass case with the projectile partly poking out and instead of wadding there's extra powder. We can make these sort of weapons and ammo today, but they'd be expensive.
Wait what Johnathan reacting to Warhammer 40k Darktide weapons? I wasn't expecting this but that's awesome to see and it's cool to know there's details with these fictional weapons.
The reason why the lasgun looks so much like a conventional rifle is fairly simple. When the Lasgun was originally designed/issued, the troops were familiar with and knew how to employ/aim conventional arms. By keeping the form and basic function as similar as possible, it made training them on the new weapons MUCH faster and easier. After that, they had an effective design, why spend the time/resources to fix something that isn't broken? Additionally, many PDF (planetary defence forces) units are still equipped with conventional rifles. Keeping the lasgun so similar allows the PDF troops to be re-equipped and called up to frontline Imperial Guard service more quickly/easily.
"I don't know why the cartridge's would be so long" I guess he hasn't seen what the humans in 40k are up against, they need all that power to take down the xenos they encounter xD
Love the fact that in the lore, your average lasgun shot actually has the muzzle energy of a massive elephant rifle, but 40k is so over-the-top that the guard still typically has to use it like they're trying to set a tyrannosaurus on fire by shining enough flashlights at it. :^)
Bolters were never designed to have a buttstock because they were intended for the Space Marines so it would have gotten in the way of that bulky power armor they wear. Also the bolter rounds use a two stage round, it uses a small explosive propellant like a modern bullet then a rocket booster to keep accelerating.
17:22 : this one is the Death Korps of Krieg lasgun, wich is the imperial guard regiment inspired by WWI. Even without knowing that you nailed it, impressive 👍
Thank you for this entertaining video, Johnathan. The Bolter doesn't need a buttstock - Bolter rounds are armour piercing reactive grenades that are fired in a two stage process. In the story, a first small charge propels it out of the barrel and then the second charge accelerates it further like a rocket. So if the games sound design is done well, you hear two spikes when firing, like a double-thump. So technically bolt rounds are miniaturised RPGs. :-) Is it practical, realistic? No ... but 40k is about the rule of cool.
Very interesting video. According to one of the novels there's an in-universe why most of the wood parts have been replaced by metal or plastic: many of these guns are made on hive-worlds or forge-worlds, which tend to be lacking in larger plant-life, so wooden parts on weapons is something of a luxury when it comes to mass-produced guns.
I very badly want him to also look at Vermintide 2's guns. There's not a lot of games with a load of options in and around maybe 1770s-ish technology, and VT2 has a fair few. Although admittedly some of the dwarf stuff gets pretty wild pretty quickly
seeing how positively jonathan reacted and how good a job fatshark did on these guns, kind of makes me want to see a reaction video to the guns from vermintide 2 (imcluding the enemies ratling gun), even if it might be a tad shorter than this one
The most tragic mistake you see throughout this game when it comes to firearms and their accessories is the ABSOLUTELY HERETICAL lack of bayonets! Where are they? Did Chaos steal the Hive's entire supply of bayonets?
They almost certainly did. What better way, to the demented mind of the Chaos worshipper, to make the Emperor's faithful despair than to remove their last and most direct means of combating the Enemy?
Just a point about Bolters, they are BOTH explosive propelled and rocket propelled, as well as both explosive and AP. There is a densely packed initial charge at the back to give the initial acceleration boost, in lore having enough recoil (In the full space marine variant presumably) to break a person's arm with just that initial charge. After the initial charge, you then have the rocket propulsion that makes the bolter unique. So when fired the round leaves the muzzle already going at the speed you'd expect from a bullet, then continues to accelerate as it flies. In effect this improves the range and potentially even penetrative power at longer ranges. As for being explosive, the round functions much like WW2 APHE rounds. They have an armour penetrating tip, followed by an explosive charge fused to go off just after the round enters its target.
For the combat shotgun alt-fire, what if the default ammunition had a "skirt", tightening the pattern by default but, the alt fire didn't have one and went full ham on payload, using the missing space of the skirt for more powder or something? The hellbore lasgun reminds me of the Fallout 4's combat shotgun and of the BAR.
iirc, the .75cal. Bolter round is fired like a conventional centerfire round. the propellant charge also ignites a sustainer/booster rocket motor that either prevents deceleration or actually speeds the projectile up after it exits the barrel. the warhead is double-fuzed to explode shortly after impact or when it runs out of fuel. consider an AA-12 scaled up to fire micro-RPGs using full-brass 10ga casings and you have a good model of the concept.
I think the Combat shotgun looks like it's modelled after the China Lake 40mm pump-action grenade launcher... or is it the other way around , and did the guys at China Lake thought: "what would be a proper shotgun for a Space Marine ??" 🤔
I can't believe you didn't get him to react to the Ogryn's Big Box of Hurt. Lol. Also, just a little more info on the Bolter, it doesn't use true gyrojet style rounds, but a combo. It has a conventional cartridge to handle initial propulsion and acceleration and then the rocket engine in each round ignites and maintains the velocity and/or accelerates it further after it leaves the barrel.
Interesting to bring up that Warhammer 40k's designs date from the 80s, and while there's been changes since then, there's obvious visual design DNA dating from that which modern designs have kept to which contrast to more recent trends, and some combinations of old and new. There's still a very specific vibe of mixing blocky miniature style with deliberately baroque, WW1 evoking designs, and variations between factions and models.
Funny enough the Helbore Lasgun also known as Lucius Pattern Lasgun is used by an Imperial guard regiment that specialises in trench warfare the Death Korps of krieg who are based off ww1 German soldiers.
The massive radiator on the Hellbore/Lucius akin to the Hotchkiss' is pretty fitting as this pattern of Lasgun is the one used by the Death Korps of Krieg, a massively overrated part of the imperial army which draws almost all of its inspiration from WWI.
Boltgun rounds are two stage rockets. They have a powder charge of sorts that spits put the rocket projectile, with the rocket motor kicking in after the payload has left the barrel, so as to increase the range of the heavy payload shell.
Please Jonathan, made a video on *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* weapons. (Please like the comment so gamespot can finally see it) So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone. There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video for the game.
I'm surprised you didn't show him the Lorenz shotgun that comes default with every Ogryn. The thing feels like you're carrying a punt gun everywhere you go, like a .5 gauge shotshell or something. It's a sight to behold.
Explaining to Jonathan what an "Ogryn" is to give a sense of how MASSIVE their weapons are will definitely be doing down as a career highlight for me!
I hope you enjoy this one, fellow Warhammer 40,000 nerds, as much as I did making it and watching him react in real time to some of these weapons....
We also did a deep-dive into the Bolter a couple years ago, and explained more about the real-world Gyrojet weapons that inspired some of the very earliest Space Marine weaponry (complete with some potentially familiar faces : th-cam.com/video/Glu0GmyTJyo/w-d-xo.html
I always love watching Jonathan learning more about 40K and having an actual 40K fan help him is amazing.
I am so sad that we cannot see that, because that sounds amazing.
I want to see Bullet Girls Phantasia get an episode.
Wait you make these?
@@DropTheBab The Emperor wills it!
Dear God, he even knows about warhammer style and history of the franchise! He is a true geek and a national treasure.
🤓🤓🤓🤓
Because people explained the Universe and weapons beforehand as you can see in the comment lol
He's been following Warhammer since it came out in the 80's. Wouldn't be surprised to hear he has more than 1 miniature army at home.
He’s a Brit, GW is one of their biggest companies there.
For those who don’t know Leeds armouries hosts wargaming events (fiasco). With him working there, he’s come across 40K.
A small detail in 40k gun lore that I love.
The Lawbringer Shotgun, used by Arbites (The Police in 40k)
Was designed, to have as LOUD of a cocking as possible.
So when they manually pump it, its meant to be very loud, for intimidation purposes, since that's meant to be used against mainly Civilian targets, for who the very loud *CHUNK CHUNK* is very intimidating
Imagine one hand pumping two of em now
The Ripper Gun is actually designed specifically for the Ogryn. It's abnormally chunky for the sake of durability, since Ogryns are well known to use their weapons as bludgeons whenever anyone gets close, and you want a gun that still fires after you smash someone in the face with it.
Plus, it has limiters that reduce the rate of fire, otherwise they'd expend all of their ammunition in about fifteen seconds
@@sev1120 And I immediately understood why they had to install that limiter the first time i fired that thing. It is hilariously fun to just empty the magazine on full auto, so yes it is completely understandable why they would have used up all their ammo in 15 seconds.
also Ogryns are way too stooopid to use aiming sights on grenade launcher. So it just there, flapping about, not because developers didnt make it functional. But because Ogryns dont use that
Im a little surprised he didnt reference old vintage wheel lock maces, clubs, and axes. As they were manufactured in old times but i could imagine the gun is shot first to avoid miscalibration from a hard melee hit. Or shot second if near point blank range.
I wish he had more information. When he said he had no sense of scale and assumed 50cal. The heavy stubber is the size of a human lol
Jonathan gets little smirk and his eyes light up when he's describing the theoretical action of these crazy guns. This man loves what he does and I love him for it.
And he actually knows what he's talking about in the real guns, to boot.
yeah, sucha s when he just accepts that: yeah, ogryns use this, so it makes sense.
Boltguns use a sort of hybrid ammunition. You have an initial propellent charge, like normal real life ammunition, that fires the round down the barrel where it engages with the rifling of the barrel then the rocket engine kicks in as it leaves the barrel. Bolters in the books and lore have a distinctive "bang, roar" sound from the initial charge going then the rocket engine firing.
Bolt guns are effectively RPG 7’s in function, but housed in a “gun like structure” for ease of use. And the RPG 7 in the Soviet Union was considered a grenade launcher propelled by a rocket. So Jonathan is not wrong calling it a grenade launcher.
@@yurimikhail6907 yeah for intents and purposes they're basically grenade launchers
@@yurimikhail6907 well RPG does stand for rocket propelled grenade
makes sense really, the problem with the Gyrojet was it had no power at close and close-medium ranges because the round had to get up to speed. Bolter solves this by having an initial regular whatever they use for making guns go bang charge. I dont want to say powder or cordite because for all I know there is a canon handwave chemical that makes guns go bang.
@@battlewolf578 RPG stands for ручной противотанковый гранатомёт (ruchnoy protivotankovy granatomyot) which means manual anti-armour granade launcher.
Why are they blocky ?
Some people might have forgotten that this started as a miniature game, so those things had to be easy enough to sculpt, cast, easily replicable and recognizable from a distance while playing, so all the details were fairly chunky.
To add onto this, the molding tech nowadays allows for less blocky bits. Look at the 'new' Sisters of Battle line, and there's a lot of small details that weren't able to be done 20-30 years ago. A lot of the iconic stuff in 40K was made back when what you said was applicable, so even though they _can_ pull off more 'elegant' styles, it would change the look of 40K.
@@leadpaintchips9461 I think the new Cadians offer the best comparison for how much finer stuff has gotten. The lasguns are much sleeker and have so much more small details!
@@leadpaintchips9461 plus they really did not care at all about actually ‘working weapons’ - they all had bizarre huge magazines coming out the front of the gun etc haha. it was just ‘little space soldier must look cool’ not the tacticool, perhaps overly thought over, semi realistic designs we see today.
Don't forget that you want it to stay in one piece if you drop it.
The sculpting limitations are part of it but you also have the issue of small miniatures and readability. They’re essentially toy soldiers with guns and you want to see the guns. So to make them more visible and read better, you have to change the proportions. If you take the miniature and scale it up to full size those changes in proportion become more apparent. Eventually it just becomes part of the aesthetic.
Something that impressed me with the shotgun is that you can use it for long range targets. It never magically disappears at a distance but carries on to whatever you aim at.
When you aim the shotgun it fires a slug rather than the normal buck shot
@@randomlygeneratedname it does not, projectile simply carried over and with the special bullet (secondary fire) it's a tighter spread not a slug
@@randomlygeneratedname You can plainly see that isn't true in game...
@@randomlygeneratedname Nope. But the new Agripinaa Shotgun is now your resident Slug Shotgun
"If it works, keep it for 40,000 years"
Quite accurate description of the entire premise of 40k
There is also the fact that innovation is heresy in the imperium
There were two patterns of lasrifle present here: the Kantrael pattern and the Lucius pattern. The Kantrael pattern is the Cadian favored one, it's capable of semi-auto and full-auto shooting. It's fairly standard. The Lucius pattern is the Krieg weapon of choice. The Krieg themselves have a very WW1 German aesthetic, so the weapon doesn't look all that modern. However, the Lucius pattern is capable of semi-auto shooting with the ability to overcharge their lascells (the magazines) for more powerful shots at the expense of the longevity of the battery.
I would say krieg are very much Western front WW1 all factions rather than just german.
@@davidtrujillo1689 definitely, far too much French inspiration to call them German. British style puttees as well.
@@astratan2238 British puttees, French great coats, German gasmasks and helmets that are a mix of French and German designs.
@@astratan2238 The German inspiration becomes very apparent through the name though. Krieg being the german word for War obviously (or not so obvious).
@@StabYourBrain But there's little past that, the gasmask, helmet that's mixed with the french and maybe some banners. That's really it.
They're more of an aglormeration of the western front than any country in particular.
13:17 Gotta love how sometimes the Ogryn reload animations are different for the ripper. Sometimes he bumps the mag into the rail and sometimes he tries to put the magazine backwards, before turning it the right way.
I thought it was something I noticed but I didn't really pay too much attention
He's trying his best
Tap that mag to make sure there's no dust in it. Otherwise it won't work 😉
Could be an m16 mag reference imo
But thats a little too far for the devs to make it like that 😅
@@chloeholmes4641 the ogryns are simply not that bright and mess it up
@@tibinicle "not that bright" is the understatement of the century
I'm so glad Jonathan brought up that the cocking handle of the top gun on the twin Heavy Stubber being attached to the bottom one so they're pulled together would make sense, because Ogryns really do have enough strength that pulling both at the same time wouldn't be an issue for them!
Jonathan hasn't thought about the m1919 as a inspiration for the heavy stubber and this makes me sad
@@enricoframme8441 the m2 is the 1919s daddy
@@tessier_ashpool are you sure about that?
@@tessier_ashpool The M1919 is the M2's daddy actually with the M1919 being an air cooled M1917.
If anything, it's the handle itself that looks a little too frail for the amount of juice that an ogryn will put into that cocking motion xD
So the reason 40k weapons are so bulky, other than obvious rule of cool aesthetics, are because they're basically all cast in a single construction in giant manufactories that almost no one understands how they work
Adding to this; the reason conventional round weapons exist is tied to this too. Nobody knows how to make anything, so your ability to manufacture arms is heavily limited by whatever presets your local manufactorum is loaded with. Autoguns and stubbers as they are known are heavily outdated, people KNOW this, but sometimes its the only option they have
@@Freekymoho no one knows, and techpriests refuse to research is what I'm aware of.
@@Freekymoho I also like to think that the aesthetics have become the prime concern in the Imperium. Bulky and blocky looks brutal and practical, and so that appearance is supposed to inspire faith that it is so.
@@jeremiahsafford1389 Soon enough they'll just give out a box of random bolts and nuts and call it a bolter, and it'll work...
It's because this aesthetics came from miniatures. It is quite problematic to mass produce (and for players - build and paint) very small and detailed objects. I do note, however, that new models released by GW are more complex in form and less blocky - just look at recently revealed guardsmen for example.
As for the lore, they certainly do know and understand how firearms (and lasers, boltguns, mortars, explosives, etc) operate. Most problems with understanding technology occurs when it comes to complex archeotech. There are a lot of different patterns of autoguns with different advancement levels exists: from basic automatic rifles with cased ammunition to caseless electrothermal APFSDS throwers that are capable of penetrating carapace or even power armour. It all comes to resources, tools and specialists avaible.
Maybe the reason the revolver has that bar “reloader” that gets ignored in favor of gravity is because the revolver isn’t necessarily always used in a gravitational field. A very astute observation from Mr. Gun! Very insightful video, and quite enjoyable.
or it just was functional 10k years ago, but now it is just here, but not working (like, welded, riveted, casted as one part with the drum, or stuck somehow else) because manufactorum malfunctioned millennia ago
@@Blackwing2345635Or some random Veteran/Priest wasn’t taught how to use a gun that was salvaged off of a corpse
Idk if Jonathan reads the comments but the Lasgun is such a fun weapon because it is cheap to make and very sturdy kind of like the 40K version of a Kalashnikov. But my favorite Lasgun trivia is that the magazines have solar charging capabilities so you can put it out on a sunny day and it charges a few shots but they also can be taken out of the weapon and thrown like a grenade.
Guardsmen in desperate scenarios are known to heat their las-packs in camp fires. This does reduce the lifespan of them though which can carry a penalty as severe as field-execution, depending on who catches you.
You throw the lasgun with attached battery as makeshift bomb, not the battery itself.
@@sciarpecyril I think it depends on what pattern.
on some you can just throw the battery/magazine on some you need or get a larger boom by using the gun to.
plus the general what quality the battery is at.
if its factory fresh from a good factory whit a good pattern you probebly need to use the rifle.
if its old maybe just the battery is enouth.
remmber a guardsman thats issued a lasgin and 2 batteries.
might have a 20 year old rifle, and one battery is 1000 years old while the other one came out of the factory 5 min ago.
@@Zack_Wester, this whole thing is done by overloading the lasgun, while the battery provides energy for an explosion. The lasgun cannot make explosion stronger since it contains no energy, but it has capacitors and other systems that can potentially explode if overcharged.
The method in described in one of early Gaunt's Ghosts novels and requires both the weapon and the battery. Therefore it considered by guardsmen to be used only in the direst of situations, because you lose your main weapon in the process.
Then get shot by a commissar for recking Imperial property.
One thing to mention about why Lasguns are visually similar to the ballistic guns: Familiarity for the soldier using it. You can put a lasgun and a stubber next to one another and someone who is trained in the use of either one will generally be capable of recognizing and operating the other.
This also explains the visual recoil in the Cadian units. They're given recoil simulators so Joe Shmoe on the feudal world with the crossbow, Dave whose been fighting in the underhive gangs since he was 6, and the pedigree Sir Author Wheniburgun raised in the scholora can all instantly get used to the weapon after using typical slugrifles. The Helbore/Lucius pattern at least has a bit of a reason considering it's lascannon-esque charge system, that much energy disperssal has got to have a kick.
I think everyone is forgetting a key point, they are guns. And for the same reason that crossbows and muskets look like guns you will get similar features.
- why a trigger and not a firing stud? because a trigger conforms to a finger and a firing stud is a little uncomfortable after two hours of use and a little hard to reliably activate while in combat.
-why is the battery pack where a magazine would be. Well, because you are going to have to change charge pack, and it's convient to have it right there.
well, the actual reason they have recoil in game is because they tested having no recoil as would be realistic, and the players just said it felt weird and incomplete.@@gratuitouslurking8610
That shotgun is an in-universe police shotgun. I believe the SPAS-15 (which has a magazine) was originally designed for police, but police organizations saw it and said "no, we need a feed port and pump action so we can spontaneously load different ammo" and Franchi went back to the drawing board and made the SPAS-12. You could say this shotgun is inspired by weapons like the SPAS-12, which is semi-automatic but still has a manual pump.
also want to note that there is a LOT of Judge Dredd's arbitrator shotgun in the design. which is great because the shotgun it's an iconic weapon used by the Adeptus Arbites (which are also known as Arbitrators and are the Judges of the 40k universe). Just another example of how even though a lot of things copied from 40k, 40k tended to copy a lot of other things that came before it.
The SPAS-15 is actually the successor to the SPAS-12, and maintains the ability to switch between pump and semi-auto, while replacing the tube magazine with a standard box mag. It is also about a pound lighter.
11:02 so theres actually an explanation for this and for why bolters eject brass. While they do have a gyrojet style rocket it activates as the bolt round leaves the barrel, the initial propulsion is done via standard powder in a brass cartridge exploding. The rocket part is just rule of cool and it extends the range
Also it gives it an explosive payload, if I remember my lore correctly.
@@lordfelidae4505 it is usually aphe
@Child of Slaanesh it's called "mass reactive" in universe, but basically yes. It's basically a tiny Missile that is fired from a conventional case
@@JazzKazoo0930 true, but I figured aphe would mean more to him than mass reactive
That's definitely not only inspired by, but actually supposed to be a Browning M2. Technological decay is a theme of 40k, and the design of the M2 being in use for 38 thousand years is part of the charm.
Would love to see a look at Deep Rock Galactic. From the fairly grounded like the Scout's assault rifle or the Gunner's revolver, to the action movie classics like the Driller's flamethrower or the Gunner's minigun, to the total sci-fi like the Driller's cryo gun or wave cooker, it's got a little bit of everything.
Seconded! ROCK AND STONE!
@@TheAwesomeRohin85 thirded!
Rock!
And!
Stone!!!
Smart rifle
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE!?
Rock and stone in the heart!
An interesting note on the Heavy Stubbers rounds looking like .50 cal, they basically are. The M2 Browning is so good they are using it thousands of years later.
The M2 browning is still in use 40,000 years into the future? Man, did John Moses browning do an excellent job designing that
Honestly. Don't doubt it. Can't improve on perfect.
@@jooot_6850 The only thing they could really improve is the materials for longer spells between maintenance/cleaning and better propellant for the .50 BMG, the gun itself doesn't need to be changed as it's fine as it is.
@@MegaRazorback Pretty much. They could make the gun more durable, lighter, and maybe eek out some better ballistics with more advanced propellants, but yeah the gun is so reliable and simple; it's perfect for a massive galaxy spanning military. You want something that can lay down heavy fire, reliably and cheaply, for trillions of gunners. There is no better option than the M2.
So glad Jonathan is reacting to this, I love both 40k itself and this game, it's really interesting to see what expert thinks about weapons that exist in the universe.
Makes me wonder what the pope thinks of the Ecclesiarchy. Something heretical I presume.
The games has done 2 things amazingly.
The Sound Track (and sounds in general)
And the guns
The music and sound effects are all amazing, and the Guns look and feel right.
The Helbore is literally a Krieg Lucius-Pattern, but with more than one firing mode.
Hope this series goes on for ages
I met Jonathan a couple years back as army infantry trainee and he answered every question in such a great way
In what capacity was he there? How did he get to know so much about guns in the 1st place?
@@gchecosse I think it's already described by his own job.
You can't be a keeper of firearms and artillery without atleast knowing how it works and function, but also how to fixed/restore them.
Many gun related museum curators actually "collaborated" with actual military instructors to see whether the gun is still working conditions or not also with a bit live gun shooting experience.
If it's working just fine especially on current era of weapons, the military will keep it, but if it's already become quite frail for long time amount of use in combat/practice, then the museum will restore it and keep it in their armory.
For an older type of gun, the museum will generally keep it.
I can be wrong but that's the current answers that I knew of, so you can correct me in the future if I'm wrong.
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
I feel like this makes some logical sense if you could understand it. Shame I can't understand it.
Spoken like a true Adept of Mars.
No offense but that is the most illogical gobbledygook I have read in a while. Even if what you said is lore, it's a dumb and nonsensical way to have a rocket go where you want it. The computing power needed to do that versus any basic target systems is like using a modern supercomputer to play tetris.
Read this in Phlydailys voice :p
@@EricHammThat paragraph is from some video explaining how a real guided anti-tank missile works. That is not lore.
17:44 I love how he calls out the design element of the weapon as French, as recent depictions of the Death Korps of Krieg have most definitely leaned further into French WW1 moreso than the Greman WW1 the casual fan may think of them to be based in. The lasgun pictured here is the Lucius Pattern Lasgun, aka the primary lasgun used by the Death Korp to the point it was in their new-age plastic models.
Indeed. I think it's the neck guard and long coat that a casual observer would associate with german aesthetics due to the more well-known profile from ww2, unaware that many countries used similar designs, especially in ww1, simply because it was practical.
The helmets even have the same kind of broad rounded ridge on top that the archetypical french ww1 helmets had.
The braced autogun functions by having you tuck it into the crook of your arm, like the manual of arms for a BAR during an assault phase. The other autoguns have you shoulder the weapon for aiming down the sights. And the ammo it spits is unknown. A Vraksian pattern autogun used something called "8mm Long" cartridges, and the ammo on the Veteran's armor looks by size and proportions to be close to .338 Lapua. Considering the threats the Imperium faces (necessitating such things as the bolter), I'd say it's in the 8mm full cartridge case range.
Love these videos. Don't suppose Jonathon could have a look at the weapons of Deep Rock Galactic? There's eighteen unique guns in the game (three primary weapons and three secondary weapons for each of the four classes), and each gun has lots of "overclocks" that can completely change the effects of the gun.
That would be so dope. Unless Dave is an avid player of DRG it might be hard to collect footage of Overclocks to showcase :(
@@TheWildSlayer Haven't looked into it myself, but the game has lots of mods, so there could be a way to "cheat" overclocks onto the guns. But I don't think they'd be necessary for a video like this, really.
FOR KARL
yes please!!!!!!!!
@@Zambicus There absolutely are. From what I've seen and heard, the devs dont really care if you cheat things in for yourself
One thing he didn't mention with the grenade launcher gauntlet that I noticed is that the wearer seems to actually be able to detonate the grenade in the barrel for a sort of shotgun effect while in melee
nah, the grenades don't have a minimum safe distance, so the Ogryn literally just pulls the trigger when they hit something
@@robonerd125 the ogryns aren't aware of this of course, its just happenstance from the ogryn trying to make a fist.
@@sirshotty7689 Well, it isn't really. The Ogryn can smash stuff with the Grenadier Gauntlet itself and can also choose when to use the special mode which is smash + fire a grenade. Ogryn are below human intelligence but they're not complete imbeciles.
@@user-rr5ce1wb2j "below human intelligence" they seem about the same in my experience, in fact id say the average ogryn has a higher probability of being smarter than an average human. they definitely last longer than standard guardsmen do anyways.
And just for that remark against the emperors greatest gift to mankind I hope you and your next five generations get sent to a penal legion in the Segmentum Obscurus!
@@user-rr5ce1wb2j And the players Ogryn have the Bonehead implant which makes them smarter than the average Ogryn, could probly count all the way to 6 if you gave them a few hints.
I'd love for a real "prank em John" moment where he goes "oh a volkite calivar, we have one of those in the museum".
Fun fact the bolter rounds also have a powder charge which fires when you pull the trigger, then the rockets activate after the bolt has exited the weapon
My god, Jonathan getting blue-screened by Warhammer Combi-Weapons is perfect
The Lucius pattern lasgun has a lot of pieces of WW1 firearms, such as the receiver is inspired by the BAR and the other pieces mentioned in the video respectively. It’s usually used by the Death Korps of Krieg since they are the representation of WW1 incarnate since even their uniforms is a mix of different nations of WW1 as well.
Myself and a couple friends that play have actually started called the Twin Heavystubber the "Deuce Deuce" since it's basically 2 M2 Ma Deuce guns hooked up and it just fits how Ogryn would call it
I think I'll end up calling it 'the double D' for that same reason.
I used to be a machinegun guy in the army and have used the .50 cal and the 7.5ish mm guns. The twinstubber is the most satisfing weapon in darktide and brings back the joyful grin to my face.. it feels kinda right.
The amount of respect Jonathan gives to every universe and world truly makes this series one of the best on youtube. He is a legend through and through.
When it comes to the Bolter there's so many versions and interpretations. My favorite is the hybrid interpretation where the projectile itself is still a gyrojet, but it's initially propelled from the gun like a traditional bullet so that it has sufficient speed at close range but still accelerates down range via the rocket exhaust.
That slow launch speed was one of the failings of gyojets...
Bolter ammo is more like mini RPG-7 projectiles, the rocket motor on an RPG-7 is the central section, ie the front half of the spigot, the rear half of the spigot is a launching charge, to throw the projectile down range before the rocket kicks in, this prevents the shooter getting hit with rocket backwash, and gives a better launch velocity.
Bolter rounds are basically a variation on this, think .50 cal gyroget ammo with a delayed ignition loaded into a shotgun cartridge, loaded into a box/drum/belt feed on an automatic shotgun...
A neat detail on that double-barreled machine gun that I noticed while watching is that the sound it makes changes in pitch just before it runs empty.
There's something almost therapeutic in watching someone talk about a subject he is both incredibly knowledgable and passionate about, and Jonathan combines that with natural charm and giddy nerdyness, and that makes him my favorite 'expert reacts' guy on youtube.
The flamer's burst function reminds me a bit of the AK's design, i.e. having full auto in the middle of the selector lever and semi auto at the bottom so the conscripts wouldn't panic and empty a whole magazine uncontrolled. The player characters in Darktide are also conscripts after all
This episode is one of the best ones that Jonathan did imo, you can see that he is really interested in Wh40k. Hope that they hire him as an advisor in the future.
I bet Jonathan is a secret warhammer fan, he seemed genuinely chuffed about some of these.
From what I remember of his talking about other 40K games, he's a casual fan that loves how over the top it can get.
The bolt gun in my opinion is FatSharks greatest achievement in guns for shooting games. the feel, the weight, the sounds it makes by just moving it. and lets not forget firing it is super satisfying. any companies looking to make Warhammer game and want to make a bolter, should look at this as the starting point.
This is a crossover I didn't expect, but as a fan of Jonathan, Bang Sticks and 40K, I am here for it in mind, body and soul.
For the laser rifle, I would say, it is better for us in the real world to cosmetically look like our other firearms so that when training soldiers to fire them, they already have the training from basic to operate the laser rifle, so reloading and handling should be relatively similar yet different since you are still operating a more complex item than your standard weapons…
When I first started playing Darktide, I wondered why some weapons clearly lack stocks despite being somewhat oversized, like flamers and bolters. Then it dawned on me, the bolter is designed for space marines. Space Marines need to be able to use bolters one handed so they can use their swords or other melee weapons at the same time. It fits really well when you go in depth into the lore.
The bolters in game are not the same ones space Marines use but yes space Marines can fire them one handed.
I really respect that rather than just offering a compare and contrast to real historical/modern arms, that he's willing to engage with the lore's internal logic as much as he does-- very cool
That and willingness to be understanding with game design decisions is a big part of why I look forward to these videos.
@@Sorain1 very true, agreed
One important note that I'm not sure was conveyed to Jonathan was how every every single weapon in 40k is a higher caliber than anything used today. The autogun's smallest cartridge is "8.25mm long". The ogryn shotguns are essentially firing tank canister rounds. Also the Lucius pattern lasgun is the signature weapon of the Deathkorps of krieg. The WWI aesthetic guardsmen regiment.
Just a note: bolters do actually have optional stocks, usually on bolt snipers but also (in the books) on human scale models.
Just gotta say, I love the casual Terminator T and a suit jacket on top. Massive props.
I was hoping to god you guys would cover Darktide's guns. So much attention to detail. Stuff like, in some guns you can see the level of ammunition in the magazines change. Would have liked to see him react to the Ogryn's using the guns as clubs, haha
It might not be directly relevant to the video, but that demonstration of the heavy stubber just being sustained fire for like 30 seconds straight is fun. All the other demos are running around and plonking a few rounds, but then there's this one heavy fire just going on for ages.
Heavy stubber is far and away my favorite ogryn gun.
I would love to see him cover either dead space, which might be weird, or the long dark, which might be short, but the attention to detail is lovely.
Jonathan understanding video game guns and not being super critical is always awesome to me. Instead of knocking it he likes to have fun with his imagination. Literally the only reason I watch this channel is because of him.
I'm impress at how much he actually likes what they did with the weapons despite it being a scifi fantasy game. I love how despite 40k being very over the top, they do still have a lot of attention to detail.
The lasguns magazines are just battery packs and the recoil is due to the superheated gas release at the front; as for the gun looking like that is because of the focusing crystal for the laser.
Ferguson sounds like he had a lot of fun with this one.
Wonder if Evil West can be folded in with a "Weird West" special. I dunno if it has too many on its own, but maybe you can throw in Darkwatch, an addendum for The Hunt:Showdown, The Order 1886... I dunno.
you can visualize how absolutely strong the Ogryns are from the fact that they can hipfire, not one, but 2 M2 browning at once
that is a full auto .50BMG that is firing 2 barrels in sequence of a total of 120 shots without stopping
we put those in cars to use them, they just hold it like an LMG
little mistake on the Bolter, it is a Rocket in a casing, the hammer strikes the Primer that shoots out the round and when it Left the Barrel the mini Rocket ignites and then goes in to its Target penetrates and explodes inside its target, that is how Bolters Work, unless they changed it again
Usually in the 40k world, revolvers and other guns that use ammo are used by less advanced or lower budget armies like Gangers, militia, Orks, or cultists. They're called "stubbers" because they fire little stubs instead of bolts or shells or lasers. Or "Sluggas" because they fire lead slugs. There are automatic pistols, autorifles, and the machineguns called Heavy Stubbers, traditionally .50 caliber. (There aren't enough pages in the 40k rulebook to list all the different calibers of guns, so they lump them together for simplicity.)
There are ways to make a single action revolver fire "fully automatically" but they're not safe at all. :)
Now that he's seen this, i would love to see him react to deep rock galatic's guns
Rock and stone brotha
Good news, he did
@@AtomicAlchemist i was hyped as heck
Gears of War has been mentioned so SO many times by Jonathan, there should be an episode from it already. I swear I heard about it about 5-6 times throughout the 1-1,5 year.
Given the revolver is break action like a Webley, I think the knurled knobs are meant to be the 40k equivalent of the Webley's locking bar.
Helbore lasgun looks very similar to M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle - to be more precise - it looks exactly like a 1917's prototype, which had flash supressor and bayonet.
The only one existing prototype rifle now can be seen in the Winchester company's gun museum in New Haven.
"this is johnathon ferguson" no that's an M79 40mm grenade launcher
1:54 it's funny he mentions this because there's another (more hard sci-fi at that) setting called 2300AD, where more efficient means of propulsion are used. There's the obvious Gauss weapons, as well as binary propellent which mixes 2 separate inert gasses which combine explosively to propel the bullet, and conventional weapons which fire a caseless round with the bullet embedded in a solid cylinder of propellent.
What I thought was funny about the heavy stubber, was that I assumed “twin linked” meant it was electrical, and more sophisticated. not just jamming two barrels on the same old gun
As gives rise to the old joke;
"What do you call a lasgun with a flashlight attached to it?"
"Twin linked!"
The closest thing to a bolt gun that's actually used today is probably base-bleed or rocket assisted projectiles in modern artillery. You still pack about as much boom into the initial firing charge as the gun can withstand, then use a little solid propellant gas generator to keep the shell's velocity up.
I'd like to see Jonathan reacting to specifically the Death Korps lol WW1 aesthetic is kindof their thing
He is probably going to drool over the sapper kit of the engineers.
A ton of Warhammer 40k weapons, especially the Imperial Guard's, are explicitly designed to evoke the aesthetic of various historical weapons and conflicts.
I think I have to issue some corrections to the common perception about bolters.
They're patently NOT Gyrojets. A Gyrojet accelerates a projectile from zero to its full velocity with four rocket motor vents that give it a spin. A bolter has a cartridge that launches the projectile at already lethal speeds and a single sustainer motor that accelerates it even further once it's cleared the barrel. Essentially like a M549 or XM1113 artillery shell, or a Sturmtiger shell.
Essentially, a bolter is a 10ga automatic shotgun that shoots rocket-assisted explosive tipped slugs. The cartridge is a full brass case with the projectile partly poking out and instead of wadding there's extra powder. We can make these sort of weapons and ammo today, but they'd be expensive.
Wait what Johnathan reacting to Warhammer 40k Darktide weapons? I wasn't expecting this but that's awesome to see and it's cool to know there's details with these fictional weapons.
The reason why the lasgun looks so much like a conventional rifle is fairly simple. When the Lasgun was originally designed/issued, the troops were familiar with and knew how to employ/aim conventional arms. By keeping the form and basic function as similar as possible, it made training them on the new weapons MUCH faster and easier. After that, they had an effective design, why spend the time/resources to fix something that isn't broken? Additionally, many PDF (planetary defence forces) units are still equipped with conventional rifles. Keeping the lasgun so similar allows the PDF troops to be re-equipped and called up to frontline Imperial Guard service more quickly/easily.
"I don't know why the cartridge's would be so long"
I guess he hasn't seen what the humans in 40k are up against, they need all that power to take down the xenos they encounter xD
Love the fact that in the lore, your average lasgun shot actually has the muzzle energy of a massive elephant rifle, but 40k is so over-the-top that the guard still typically has to use it like they're trying to set a tyrannosaurus on fire by shining enough flashlights at it. :^)
I was about ready to hear him say " We actually have one here in the Museum." And pull out an actual Space Marine Bolter.
I love that the Lasgun red dot sight is a mini gothic style window
Bolters were never designed to have a buttstock because they were intended for the Space Marines so it would have gotten in the way of that bulky power armor they wear.
Also the bolter rounds use a two stage round, it uses a small explosive propellant like a modern bullet then a rocket booster to keep accelerating.
6:26 You're right, the Not a Flamethrower has a pretty noticeable resemblance to the Katana shotgun from Mass Effect.
17:22 : this one is the Death Korps of Krieg lasgun, wich is the imperial guard regiment inspired by WWI.
Even without knowing that you nailed it, impressive 👍
Thank you for this entertaining video, Johnathan. The Bolter doesn't need a buttstock - Bolter rounds are armour piercing reactive grenades that are fired in a two stage process. In the story, a first small charge propels it out of the barrel and then the second charge accelerates it further like a rocket. So if the games sound design is done well, you hear two spikes when firing, like a double-thump. So technically bolt rounds are miniaturised RPGs. :-) Is it practical, realistic? No ... but 40k is about the rule of cool.
Bolters are basically 40mm rpg m4s, change my mind
@@jaytrashwade1-1 AA-12 with frag rounds. You just need to still add the rocket motor and you're done. ;)
Very interesting video.
According to one of the novels there's an in-universe why most of the wood parts have been replaced by metal or plastic: many of these guns are made on hive-worlds or forge-worlds, which tend to be lacking in larger plant-life, so wooden parts on weapons is something of a luxury when it comes to mass-produced guns.
I very badly want him to also look at Vermintide 2's guns. There's not a lot of games with a load of options in and around maybe 1770s-ish technology, and VT2 has a fair few. Although admittedly some of the dwarf stuff gets pretty wild pretty quickly
seeing how positively jonathan reacted and how good a job fatshark did on these guns, kind of makes me want to see a reaction video to the guns from vermintide 2 (imcluding the enemies ratling gun), even if it might be a tad shorter than this one
The most tragic mistake you see throughout this game when it comes to firearms and their accessories is the ABSOLUTELY HERETICAL lack of bayonets! Where are they? Did Chaos steal the Hive's entire supply of bayonets?
The ogryn do have an automatic shotgun that has a bayonet
They almost certainly did. What better way, to the demented mind of the Chaos worshipper, to make the Emperor's faithful despair than to remove their last and most direct means of combating the Enemy?
Well there's one type of lasgun that has a bayonet and I keep hearing they're probably going to add attachment swapping
Krieg appropriated the supply. The Lucius-pattern still has a bayonet!
The Khornate chaos marine covering his armour in bayonets:
"if it works, keep it for 40 thousand years" is pretty much the anthem of the Imperium
Praise to the God-Emperor! Jonathan Ferguson from the Royal armories talking about Warhammer 40K
Just a point about Bolters, they are BOTH explosive propelled and rocket propelled, as well as both explosive and AP.
There is a densely packed initial charge at the back to give the initial acceleration boost, in lore having enough recoil (In the full space marine variant presumably) to break a person's arm with just that initial charge. After the initial charge, you then have the rocket propulsion that makes the bolter unique. So when fired the round leaves the muzzle already going at the speed you'd expect from a bullet, then continues to accelerate as it flies. In effect this improves the range and potentially even penetrative power at longer ranges.
As for being explosive, the round functions much like WW2 APHE rounds. They have an armour penetrating tip, followed by an explosive charge fused to go off just after the round enters its target.
For the combat shotgun alt-fire, what if the default ammunition had a "skirt", tightening the pattern by default but, the alt fire didn't have one and went full ham on payload, using the missing space of the skirt for more powder or something?
The hellbore lasgun reminds me of the Fallout 4's combat shotgun and of the BAR.
Helbore lasguns are used by Kriegers, who have a WWI German aesthetic.
But being a cylindrical shell, there's really no way to orient the shell such that the spread is always horizontal.
iirc, the .75cal. Bolter round is fired like a conventional centerfire round. the propellant charge also ignites a sustainer/booster rocket motor that either prevents deceleration or actually speeds the projectile up after it exits the barrel. the warhead is double-fuzed to explode shortly after impact or when it runs out of fuel.
consider an AA-12 scaled up to fire micro-RPGs using full-brass 10ga casings and you have a good model of the concept.
I think the Combat shotgun looks like it's modelled after the China Lake 40mm pump-action grenade launcher... or is it the other way around , and did the guys at China Lake thought: "what would be a proper shotgun for a Space Marine ??" 🤔
I can't believe you didn't get him to react to the Ogryn's Big Box of Hurt. Lol. Also, just a little more info on the Bolter, it doesn't use true gyrojet style rounds, but a combo. It has a conventional cartridge to handle initial propulsion and acceleration and then the rocket engine in each round ignites and maintains the velocity and/or accelerates it further after it leaves the barrel.
This will be fun
Interesting to bring up that Warhammer 40k's designs date from the 80s, and while there's been changes since then, there's obvious visual design DNA dating from that which modern designs have kept to which contrast to more recent trends, and some combinations of old and new. There's still a very specific vibe of mixing blocky miniature style with deliberately baroque, WW1 evoking designs, and variations between factions and models.
You guys need to do warframe as they have a lot of unusual guns in that game
It would be very cool to have another episode on darktide!
Funny enough the Helbore Lasgun also known as Lucius Pattern Lasgun is used by an Imperial guard regiment that specialises in trench warfare the Death Korps of krieg who are based off ww1 German soldiers.
Jonathan Ferguson has become my favorite human being in these past few months love you dude!
The massive radiator on the Hellbore/Lucius akin to the Hotchkiss' is pretty fitting as this pattern of Lasgun is the one used by the Death Korps of Krieg, a massively overrated part of the imperial army which draws almost all of its inspiration from WWI.
Overrated? Bah!
Overexposed maybe, but not overrated.
Boltgun rounds are two stage rockets. They have a powder charge of sorts that spits put the rocket projectile, with the rocket motor kicking in after the payload has left the barrel, so as to increase the range of the heavy payload shell.
Please Jonathan, made a video on *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* weapons. (Please like the comment so gamespot can finally see it)
So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone.
There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video for the game.
I'm surprised you didn't show him the Lorenz shotgun that comes default with every Ogryn. The thing feels like you're carrying a punt gun everywhere you go, like a .5 gauge shotshell or something. It's a sight to behold.