Jane isn't a fool. She is nots. What is the point of going on a 75 year journey? You will be ded before you get home. And they don't even make preparations. Nobody is having sex except a few. And go through unknown territory. Contrary to this Hollywood nonsense, people don't just let you travel to their territory. Only neighbors and others they have relations with. And the only guy that may know unclaimed territory which you can slip through, he works in the cafeteria. Plus they have to do contact with other species. Which is dangerous and also pointless. It will be useless information in 75 years. Delta will be a different place. Jane is a complete dngbat. Maybe if it was 30 years. There would have been a lot more mutinies if it was true.
Seska did what every good Obsidian Order operative does. Making sure there‘s a backup in case even a brilliant plans fails, just like Garak‘s doing in the episode „In the pale moonlight“.
In the pale moonlight is probably one of the best episodes and even has the best ep. name. It is especially amazing if you are really get the stakes. And like Garak said. It was a bargain 😁
Similar to her expression later in the Seska arc when the self-destruct command fails and she finally realises why the Kazon were constantly attacking the starboard ventral. :)
“Year of Hell” and “Hope and Fear” somewhat prove Seska’s point here. Voyagers mere presence in the Delta Quadrant and Voyager’s interactions with other cultures changed the balance of power. They allied with the Borg and as a result, other species got wiped out.
The alliance with the Borg was unavoidable. Species 8472 was wiping out the Borg and they weren't content there they promised to wipe out all life in the galaxy to cleanse it of the weak. The Borg suck, but you can manage them and it's possible to reverse assimilation. If you're atomized by a genocidal tripedal species not much to do there.
Seska had SOME points ..... but truthfully, THAT idea ultimately would have doomed Voyager against the WRONG foe. and the Cardassians aren't exactly the best source of advice for dealing with other species 😂😂
@@dhinton1 Are we not forgetting once the Bajorans were free they immediately turned to chaos and the quadrant suffered for it? They literally were a hopeless people that needed overseers.
Paris: "The Kazon ship is powering up its engines, looks like they're getting ready to go to warp" Janeway: "Mr. Tuvok, take out their propulsion" Tuvok: *Fires Phasers* Paris: "I've also got two Kazon warships on an intercept course less than ten minutes away" Janeway: "Tuvok, you've got five minutes to disable their weapons and shields, and beam Seska into a holding cell." Tuvok "Aye, Captain." *takes out Kazon weapons and shields, and beams Seska back aboard in four minutes and forty five seconds* Janeway: "Good work Tuvok. Mr. Paris, get us out of here, maximum warp." Paris: "Way ahead of you, Captain, course already laid in, taking us to warp 9.95. The Kazon are unable to keep up, we're in the clear" Saves a lot of trouble down the road for the Voyager.
ClarinoI - Brilliant. But that would of course eliminate the Seska-Kazon story arc they had planned for future episodes. And what about disabling the Kazon ships and providing the Okampa with defensive technology and the ability to destroy the caretakers array after it sent Voyager back to the alpha quadrant, instead of destroying the caretaker’s array beforehand? That’s the least the Okampa could do after Voyager saved them from the Kazon. But if Janeway had really thought it through, it would be.....End of series.
@@RandomGuy33369 My mistake, I forgot Tuvok was in Sick Bay. In any case, the tactical station on the bridge would be manned at all times, and whoever is there would fulfil Janeway's orders.
@LordMIGtau Nice try but, nevertheless pure bull shit. After they got the upgrade from one they have been easily defeated by borg sphere in season, 6 episode 19 in a second. on the other hand, they have fought tactical cube only a few episodes later, and they did it without any issues for a while. So don't try to explain bs plot, because you cant. Voyager has nice stories but in terms of battle balance it was terrible. In some episodes the ship was god-a-like, in other it was easily defeated by milk freighters alike ships.
@@Savoots Actually, I like star trek, and Voyager is my favorite. I rewatched the entire Voyager series at least 2 more times. It doesn't mean however that due to that I need to act as a child and ignore obvious flaws.
I loved Seska and thought she should have lived throughout the show. The character had so much potential of becoming a great villain or anti hero. Even the actress who played her thought Seska's death was a bad idea. But Seska did return in two more episodes later in the show.
Don’t you think it would have been cool if in ashes to ashes it was seska that had been resurrected rather than a nobody ensign? Like maybe she could come back but not remember who she was or what she had done. Like have a whole arc about her discovering herself and being disgusted by it and then saving the ship and rejoining the crew.
What do you mean 'even the actress who played her thought Seska's death was a bad idea'? Of course she did, moron. Every actor hates when their character is killed off - they lose money and have to look around for a now job!! How stupid are you?
Seska was my first favorite character in Voyager, so I was delighted when she got a bigger role in the story but crestfallen when they turned her into a Cardassian and then, soon afterward, killed her off. I wish she'd been a Bajoran all along--more interesting that way, as the Bajorans are written as a sympathetic species whereas the Cardassians are coded as villains, and so her point of view would be taken more seriously, like Kira's was in DS9 or Ro's was in TNG. And I wish she'd remained on Voyager as an antipode to Janeway. Seska's pragmatism wasn't right or wrong; it was just different from Janeway's point of view. This is the Starfleet-Maquis tension we were told Voyager would center on but which never actually got delivered on.
Not all Cardassians were villains, Garak is quite an honourable chap. Ceska is kind of an anti-Garak, a spy who once isolated from her people turned bad. Also didn’t Ro turned into a villain and left the Enterprise ?
I guess you're right. You can't call stupidity right or wrong. For example, the fact she wanted to ally herself with the Kazon, instead of trying to get home, yet she listed getting home as one of her objectives. It's just her dumb point of view, but you can't call it wrong since it's her opinion of what's best. Still doesn't mean that's what 100% of the rest of the crew would have done, but it's not wrong in her opinion/eyes. Or, the fact she didn't think the Kazon would go back on their word the moment they got what they wanted, because they have a whole fleet and light-years of space under their command, while Seska, if she succeeded, would only have one ship.
@Josh Fredman - Great observation; Seska's POV would have been harder to dismiss if it came from a race currently allied with the Federation. For the record, I think Seska had a point. Janeway's decision to destroy the Caretaker Array was silly, and not at all required by the Prime Directive. She was simply reacting to her own personal sense of morality, and not Starfleet's interests.
@@lerouxmartin3478 Ro was never a villain. She left the Enterprise, but she did it because she was a good person, who just didn't align perfectly with the Federation's goals at the time. She even said that she regretted letting Picard down, but it was necessary from her point of view.
I can see why Janeway wouldn't want to give barbarians like the Kazon Replicator technology. It's like giving bratty teenagers the controls to a nuclear arsenal.
I wouldn't have either. They make Klingons look sane and rational plus Klingons at least have some degree of honour to them and treat their women well.
The Kazon couldn't make the replicators work even when handed them on a silver platter. Instead of simply leaving, Seska should have killed Janeway. In fact, its a miracle that the Kazon got as far as they did, since most of their tech is stolen anyway, and they're so prone to infighting.
When Seska died, man fans thought it was wrong. Many Star Trek fans sent in letters and several magazines thought Seska being killed off was a mistake. Eventually she was brought back in two more episodes. The actress who played her even thought her death was wimpy but she said she was a supporting character and had no say what happens to Seska.
@@Megatron-sl5us I never minded that she was killed off. It did make me cry to see the way that it happened because she was trying to get to her baby, but even then it seemed like her story came to a satisfying conclusion. Now Chakotay no longer had her trying to control him or kill his crew members. While I can sympathize that Seska fans didn't want her to leave the show, it still feels like it was time.
Yeah, when she bashed things involving the Federation, she sounded just like Dukat. Seska's ranting here reminded me of when Dukat said "A Federation Trial....." with contempt laced in his voice during the Tom Riker incident where he stole the Defiant.
It's unfortunate that Seska disappeared during season 2 of Voyager. I always thought she would be a great recurring villain for the crew. She was smart, resourceful and would have made a great foil for Janeway.
Seska disappeared toward the end of season one and didn't return until the middle of season 2. She was a reoccurring villain for the last half of the 2nd season.
Indeed, in fact it would have been interesting if she somehow succeeded in keeping hold of voyager and continued the journey with her, the maquis and the kazon fleet, now that would have been some grand adventure.
Good on the actress for making her mannerisms distinctly Cardassian once she’s caught. Seska was such a squandered villain. She should have killed Kulah and taken over the Kazon sects in Basics imo.
She played a lot of characters in Star Trek. Among those 2 characters she was also the Romulan from Deep Space Nine's season 3 premier episode The Search and she played a Klingon in the game Star Trek: Klingon (go figure).
I mean as much as I love Voyager and hate Seska she does have a point. They had a way to get back and destroy the Caretaker in the process. Apparently using timed demolition charges or converting a torpedo to operate on a delay is Lostech to the Federation in the 24th century. Either that or they didn't think of a really obvious solution. "Captain, we could just set a timed delay on the torpedoes and..."DESTROY THE ARRAY! DAMN THE LUCK!!! NOW WE'RE STUCK IN THE DELTA QUADRANT FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES!!! OH, IF ONLY THERE HAD BEEN ANOTHER OPTION!!!"
*Federation fools, and yet the Cardassian Union is in shambles,, their home world decimated, and they need their "fools" help to rebuild. This episode and many others showed the foolish, short-sighted behavior of the Cardassians!* 👍😎🍺🍻🍺
But consider that this episode is set in 2371, she couldn't imagine that Cardassia would try to join the Dominion and that later it would be decimated by them (and the alliance happened in 2373).
she makes a good point. it would be like in the old days when colonist and business men would trade the locals trinkets that they viewed as valuable but we did not. janeway is the worst captain in star trek history. instead of putting her crew first she put them second if they were lucky half the time. if i were captain i would do what was needed to keep my crew safe and get them home. the old saying the lesser of two evils exists for a reason theres no such thing as black and wight just gray. it may be frowned upon but ends do justify means in the end.
Neelix and Kes were both extremely useful additions to the crew. Kes she could read minds and was able to assist the doctor in sickbay. Neelix was able to help keep the crew's morale up and the pantry stocked with food that was safe to eat. During the journey,they have made a lot of discoveries to keep the ship in one piece. The doctor's mobile emitter which allows him to go anywhere on the ship he is required, the Delta Flyer etc. They have made first contact with many species, all of this information will be used as vital teaching material for future Starfleet cadets.
The fact that seska, a cardassian desire an alliance with the kazon, an alien from another quadrant, while few years later, dukat form an alliance with aliens from another quadrant.
In the end she was technically right seeing as Voyager formed alliances or peace treaties with the Borg, Species 8472, the Hirogen via their technology. . .
I've been that dude that was a dupe. I always thought fool was the right word for early Chakotay, but I guess I need to kind of cut him a little slack.
I remember this episode going out on BBC Two for the first time and this entire scene was hit by sound problems so I didn't hear a word of it until years later.
Arthur Withheld Indeed, but I wish they’d use megameters, gigameters, terameters even. For starships these distances are ridiculously short. And when they say something like “40,000 kilometers,” which is more like it, I just wonder why they didn’t say “40 megameters” instead.
@@aperson22222 or they can start to use AU as a distance but 40000km is to small to count on a AU scale since 1 AU is 149 597 871 kilometers another thing is to use a scandinavian mile where 1 mil is 10km
It's been a while, but unless Voyager was crippled, in ten minutes they could have knocked out the Kazon's shields and transported Seska back over and then warped it out.
Seska: Computer, command XJL. Commander Chakotay: Computer, override transport in progress. Computer: Unable to comply. Security lock out is in place. Captain Janeway: Computer, identify destination of transport. Computer: A Kazon vessel. 14 kilometers off of port bow.
she was the fool trying to establish a base of power in a region of space that was over 20 years away from their home. what exactly was her plan to stop them betraying her later once they had everything they wanted? don't get me wrong she was a great character in the early seasons but her plan didn't seem fully thought through
The same reason Cardassian brass thought an alliance with the Dominion was worth it. They didn't think these things through long term which is why they got burned.
@@generalgrievous696, I don't find it unlikely that Seska's sense of her abilities, easily allowed her to believe that she could manipulate, or just plain out-think Cullah or any other Kazon mage, whenever she needed too.
I like to think Janeway took what Seska said to heart and decided to change her mind about trading technology. That or the network decided the sagging ratings meant a change up in the writing staff.
“ Minor technology that could change the balance of power in this quadran” And later in the show Janeway breaks that rule when she gives holographic technology to the Hirogens.
I would have destroyed the Kazon ship that Seska was. Target the engines blow it out of the sky before those Kazon warships could even get there. Then warp away and be done.
I was thinking thre same thing! I suppose the fight it put up might have delayed and damaged the Voyager enough for the other two to make short work of her... that's the risk she had to weigh. Sure the Voyager can defeat a kazon ship, but how long might it take and how much damage might she sustain in doing so?
Does anyone know why Chakotay had shades of grey hair in these earlier Voyager episodes and then had complete dark hair later in the series? Did he dye his hair or something?
I think the grey is sexy. But maybe Robert Beltran was told he had to color it, or maybe he just wanted to. He was about 42 then, but had been going grey since his 30s as far as I can tell. He's gorgeous either way! 😍
A better actress than Kate Mulgrew, in my opinion. Seska had smaller parts and fewer lines but delivered them far more convincingly. Janeway's only emotes were angry, stubborn, and domineering - her few "soft" or "happy" moments always seemed insincere and kind of shallow (in my opinion).
A consistent problem in all Trek iterations. Just basic access control is beyond their ability it seems. Even the alien-of-the-week could sometimes come onboard and in no time at all, beat Voyager's crew at taking control of their own computer.
Martha Hackett, who played a Cardassian, a Bjoran, a Romulan, a Klingon and more. An absolutely stunning woman, who has such unique beauty that she is unforgettable, like Michelle Gomez or Jeri Ryan or indeed like Kate Mulgrew or Rosario Dawson.
0:08 Sisko: thank you very much, Mr. Garak. Now please face the wall. Especially the wall. 2:00 - and so the primary derective goes into the basket. From what we know, it even exceeds safety of ship and preservation of crew's life, which is why it is number One. They should try at ALL COSTS to catch this ship or destroy it.
The fact that Janeway is almost crying because she was called a fool, but also so angry because the baddy got away. The torment and anguish is plain on her face, such good acting!
Janeway likely feels some guilt for stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant even if she's convinced that she had to in order to protect the Ocampa from the Kazon /which was the right decision to make/ so Seska struck a nerve.
@@ianhirst1148 Yeah because they wouldn't have cared what happened to the Ocampa. Of course, I never expected Seska to understand or care about the Ocampa once she was revealed to be a Cardassian.
That was *after* Janeway had made the decision that stranded them in the Delta Quadrant, though. As Seska says in this scene: 'If this was a Cardassian vessel, we would already be home.' If they had done things her way from the start, they'd have blown the everloving crap out of any alien ships in their way and abused the Caretaker's power to return home lickety split. And there would be no consequences to their actions for them, because any consequences would be confined to the Delta Quadrant and they wouldn't feel guilty in the slightest. There is some merit in what she is saying. It's incredibly unscrupulous and cruel, but it would have been the most effective way back home.
@@Xylarxcode I mean the only reason Janeway destroyed the caretaker's array was that she wanted to protect the ocampa from being attacked by the Kazon And she didn't want to influence the development of the Kazon by giving them access to superior tech. All things which a cardassian commander would never even consider in making a decision. There is a way home PERIOD. Let's take it 😂
Seska in two words. Brilliantly Crafty... Every plan went according to plan. Only Tuvok wasn't far behind her schemes and as usual his suspicions were warranted
Seska is a very interesting character. She was highly trained and even educated to get this far. I would've loved to see her Character to live too. Also Seska is a realist too, she knew Voyager can't survive the Delta Quadrant without adapting which they learned the hard way. If she had survived Basics, she would've found herself in the Brig until Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay agree what to do with her. She would be like the Protagonist's Mother in the show Bones too where Seska may have to play a vital role to benefit Voyager (But Seska won't do it for free, like she may ask for extra blankets, some Cardassian momentous or even transfer from the Brig to Secured Quarters.) It would've made Voyager more interesting, even with more tension between Marques and Starfleet personnel.
If Seska had been able to adjust her loyalty to her Maquis/U.S.S. Voyager crewmates She would have been the First Cardassian to serve in Starfleet Command. Voyager's Seven years in the Delta Quadrant would have been different with Seska in the crew.
"I've also got 2 Kazon Warships less than 10 minutes away." "Awesome, that gives us about 5 minutes to ruin the one Kazon ship that we massively outgun and get Seska back."
I liked the character of Seska because kind of reminded me of Gul Dukat. I wished she would have stayed on the ship as a Cardassian but working with them instead of betraying them.
I'd say teaming with the Kazons wasn't particularly worth it either. Low tech, hyper tribalist, and not particularly reliable- might as well team with the Pakled for all the good it would have done.
@Thelondonbadger You're not in this for the attention; you're in this to share your point-of-view and to make a compelling argument. With quality content, the right sort of people will trickle in to your video.
Agreed. The crew of Voyager made the right call in not allying with the Kazon and later on, made the right call in allying with the Trabe /briefly of course/ since the Kazon all hated Voyager and saw them as being like the Trabe so they may as well ally with the Trabe and get a fairly strong ally. I'm sore that the alliance with the Trabe didn't work out and looking back, they had the right idea in trying to kill off the leadership of several Kazon sects as the Kazon can't be reasoned with in the long term.
With the Borg, "DS9" (which did reference them afterwards, even though they didn't show but once in the pilot) and "Voyager" couldn't do it essentially because they were not really petty creatures. Even in "First Contact," and "DS9" their mechanical nature somewhat took over them. But yes the Borg went through the they-deny-their-crimes bit too because they were humanized to the point of no return by the time "Voyager" and UPN in general was in their prime apex of glory - 1998.
Seska’s methods might have been unorthodox but she was quite right. Voyager needed to build alliances in order to aid its objective of returning to the Alpha Quadrant. Janeway was too fixated with following Starfleet protocols and Federation values.
That's why Captain Kurt, Spock, Captain Picard, & Riker were good they knew when to break protocol especially Captain Kurt especially when beautiful women were on the scene Kurt was going to save the ship 😂😂😂😂😂
Using the Array to go back wouldn't have been the best option anyways. Being brought there killed people, being sent back the same way would've also killed people.
One thing that has ALWAYS confused me about this scene - Seska transports to a vessel a mere 14km away. In space, thats a TIIIINY distance. In fact, its very likely close to weapons range with each other if not already in that range. Why in the shit did tom or anyone else on the bridge not call for red alert, and tell the captain that a kazon vessel was quite literally right next to them?
What’s amusing is that Janeway took a page out of her book and joint a temporary alliance with the Borg. Yes the circumstances are different but still… 🤷♂️
"Minor technology that could change the balance of power in this quadrant!" preacheth Janeway, the same Janeway who would hand over biological weapons research to the Borg and happily trade the technology to create sentient holographic warriors to the Hirogen. How's that silly ol' replicator looking now, Kathy?
Hologram tech isn't as destabilizing as the ability to make actual weapons, plus the Hirogen weren't as destructive as the Kazon. And she never gave the Borg the Bio-Weapons. She knew they were just going to backstab them.
the problem is that, shes correct. sure, it would change the balance of power in the system, but it would at least make friends in high places where they can be protected long enough to not have to make that damn deal with the borg. i disliked that janeway did that, because when you make any deal with the borg, your effectively making a deal with the devil, and you ain't always gonna be prepared for what they'll start throwing. personally tho, if i was janeway, and i made the choice to strand my crew in the delta quadrant, i'd have a plan in place already: any science based officers should start developing research on upgrading our weapons, shields, and improving energy efficiency of the holo-rooms and replicators effective immediately, and i would've already had a entire cargo hold made into a hydroponics/aquaponics bay, for use when food rations start being low. and i would've started asking neelix if he knows any contacts for supplies and such in the quadrant. if he says yes, i'd tell him to be ready, we might need to trade. the more efficient stuff is, and the more powerful weapons and shields are, the more likely we can keep the ship from being blown to bits, and the less the crew has to use replicators for food rations the better everything is. i would've even had someone renovate the mess hall so they can have a kitchen. neelix wouldn't need my approval. that sector was gonna be 100% unexplored, from the get go, there would be untold perils and alliances we have to face, it wouldn't be wise to sit and complain or request permission to convert certain areas into key points. all the allies we can get, means less fighting to worry about later. but no revealing technology, because all technology would be pretty much zip zip, less they get the brig treatment and thats what janeway did in the start of the first episode, she revealed to the kazon that she had technology to make water from thin air, that was not a smart move on her part.
the thing is even by federation standards captain janeways choice to destory the array was questionable at best. i could maybe see jhonatan archer season 1 or 2 doing that that but i mean any other captain i can not see them making that choice.
thewewguy8t88, So you're suggesting that Picard would have just left the Ocampa to the tender mercies of the Kazon? I have to question that. He might have devised a different scheme, but blithely leave them to be f**ked over, or worse? No.
@@mitchellmelkin4078 well i mean more then once he was willing to let and entire planet die for the prime directive. but then again so was janeway not 2 episodes later lol
@@thewewguy8t88, I don't believe there's too much doubt that interpretation of how the PD applied in various situations, informed various captains' decisions on the course of action they would take, throughout the canon, not just in the absence of the Starfleet being anywhere within hailing distance, as was the case with Janeway. In deciding to intervene on behalf of the Ocampa, Janeway isn't simply doing a solid for a race she personally feels sympathy for. They are facing immediate predation from another warp capable race, one which Voyager has already come into conflict with. Moreover, that same dynamic had previously been forced on the Ocampa (albeit, for a nominally benevolent rationale) many centuries earlier, by the Nacene, in recompense for their catastrophic blunder on the planet. Hence, it hardly seems to be a rash or inherently ill-considered determination that Janeway reaches. Although one can argue that Kirk's rationale in supplying weapons to the Hill People (in a Private Little War) to counteract the Klingons' altering the balance of power within a pre-warp civilization, was a reflection of a less 'enlightened' Starfleet from over a century earlier, it does represent a precedent (as do other instances ftom OST). I will admit a lack of knowledge as to the extent of Picard's actions in this regard, but I'm certainly aware that in-universe, he admitted several instances of violating the PD, which obviously, didn't result in him getting removed from command or sanctioned by Starfleet in any genuinely meaningful manner. So, to assuredly claim what he might have done when faced with the exact same circumstances as were extant in Caretaker, appears uncertain at best, IMO. I assume your pointing to what Janeway did in Time and Again, as being the subsequent episode you mentioned. Yes, she was insistent on allowing the unnamed alien civilization to be destroyed because of their own apparent misunderstanding/mishandling of the widedpread use of an unstable type of energy . However, she unreservedly reversed that determination, upon realizing that the presence of Paris and herself, by itself, played a 'contaminating' part in the disaster (although its full consequence wasn't understood until the story's final moments).
I love Janeway, but maybe she should have used the Caretaker device to send Voyager home, but she herself stay behind to detonate the tri-cobalt device. It's been decades since I saw that episode, so I might be missing something.
Janeway: I saved the Ocampa! I mean I left three seconds later, and they only had at best five years before the Kazon would wipe them out....but I still saved them....kinda
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One of the all time great villain monologues. She may look Bajoran, but she suddenly sounded very much like a Cardassian.
Jane isn't a fool. She is nots. What is the point of going on a 75 year journey? You will be ded before you get home. And they don't even make preparations. Nobody is having sex except a few. And go through unknown territory. Contrary to this Hollywood nonsense, people don't just let you travel to their territory. Only neighbors and others they have relations with. And the only guy that may know unclaimed territory which you can slip through, he works in the cafeteria. Plus they have to do contact with other species. Which is dangerous and also pointless. It will be useless information in 75 years. Delta will be a different place. Jane is a complete dngbat. Maybe if it was 30 years. There would have been a lot more mutinies if it was true.
I didn't get it until watching DS9 but she's channeling that smug Cardassian superiority perfectly.
Sounded exactly like a Cardassian. So well done.
yea she killed it, and you're right I can hear Dukat saying these lines with the same inflections
Oh because she was a cardassian
Seska did what every good Obsidian Order operative does. Making sure there‘s a backup in case even a brilliant plans fails, just like Garak‘s doing in the episode „In the pale moonlight“.
Always have a back up plan!
That’s an awesome fkin episode!!
I'd argue that was Garaks original plan
@@idlehands1864 It was. He straight up says he didn't expect the forgery to work.
In the pale moonlight is probably one of the best episodes and even has the best ep. name.
It is especially amazing if you are really get the stakes. And like Garak said. It was a bargain 😁
1:57
I love how her expression is just, "Oh, of fucking COURSE."
Similar to her expression later in the Seska arc when the self-destruct command fails and she finally realises why the Kazon were constantly attacking the starboard ventral. :)
“Year of Hell” and “Hope and Fear” somewhat prove Seska’s point here. Voyagers mere presence in the Delta Quadrant and Voyager’s interactions with other cultures changed the balance of power. They allied with the Borg and as a result, other species got wiped out.
What other species got whiped out?
The alliance with the Borg was unavoidable. Species 8472 was wiping out the Borg and they weren't content there they promised to wipe out all life in the galaxy to cleanse it of the weak.
The Borg suck, but you can manage them and it's possible to reverse assimilation. If you're atomized by a genocidal tripedal species not much to do there.
@@trilobite2500 Species 116
Seska had SOME points ..... but truthfully, THAT idea ultimately would have doomed Voyager against the WRONG foe.
and the Cardassians aren't exactly the best source of advice for dealing with other species 😂😂
@@dhinton1 Are we not forgetting once the Bajorans were free they immediately turned to chaos and the quadrant suffered for it? They literally were a hopeless people that needed overseers.
I love how well she played Seska. She really seemed like the crazy enemy that you never want.
I would have taken a zombie outbreak and put it on her ship
She seemed like the only sane one.
@@DR--- No.
@@DR--- only in a certain point of view.
Paris: "The Kazon ship is powering up its engines, looks like they're getting ready to go to warp"
Janeway: "Mr. Tuvok, take out their propulsion"
Tuvok: *Fires Phasers*
Paris: "I've also got two Kazon warships on an intercept course less than ten minutes away"
Janeway: "Tuvok, you've got five minutes to disable their weapons and shields, and beam Seska into a holding cell."
Tuvok "Aye, Captain." *takes out Kazon weapons and shields, and beams Seska back aboard in four minutes and forty five seconds*
Janeway: "Good work Tuvok. Mr. Paris, get us out of here, maximum warp."
Paris: "Way ahead of you, Captain, course already laid in, taking us to warp 9.95. The Kazon are unable to keep up, we're in the clear"
Saves a lot of trouble down the road for the Voyager.
ClarinoI - Brilliant. But that would of course eliminate the Seska-Kazon story arc they had planned for future episodes. And what about disabling the Kazon ships and providing the Okampa with defensive technology and the ability to destroy the caretakers array after it sent Voyager back to the alpha quadrant, instead of destroying the caretaker’s array beforehand? That’s the least the Okampa could do after Voyager saved them from the Kazon. But if Janeway had really thought it through, it would be.....End of series.
@@frankieg9387 its called a time bomb.
thats the tool you are looking for.
That might work.. If they are on the bridge. I'm sure tuvok doesn't carry a tactical station in his pocket.
@@RandomGuy33369 My mistake, I forgot Tuvok was in Sick Bay. In any case, the tactical station on the bridge would be manned at all times, and whoever is there would fulfil Janeway's orders.
@@RandomGuy33369 Why can't Tuvok be beamed directly to the Bridge?
Three Kazon warships - too much. One Borg tactical cube - just right.
A cube can't flank.
@LordMIGtau
Nice try but, nevertheless pure bull shit. After they got the upgrade from one they have been easily defeated by borg sphere in season, 6 episode 19 in a second. on the other hand, they have fought tactical cube only a few episodes later, and they did it without any issues for a while.
So don't try to explain bs plot, because you cant.
Voyager has nice stories but in terms of battle balance it was terrible. In some episodes the ship was god-a-like, in other it was easily defeated by milk freighters alike ships.
Voyager just needs to get retconned, completely.
@@dado-7775 I think you just hate Voyager too much to see his logic. He's right.
@@Savoots
Actually, I like star trek, and Voyager is my favorite. I rewatched the entire Voyager series at least 2 more times.
It doesn't mean however that due to that I need to act as a child and ignore obvious flaws.
1:59 Kate Mulgrew was so good at displaying a range of emotions, switching effortlessly between them. A fine actress.
Yeah, you catch that little glint of regret in her eyes, that maybe Seska was right but they've not choice but to do the best they can.
And she has a magnificent pair!
The death stares were awesome
I loved Seska and thought she should have lived throughout the show. The character had so much potential of becoming a great villain or anti hero. Even the actress who played her thought Seska's death was a bad idea. But Seska did return in two more episodes later in the show.
Don’t you think it would have been cool if in ashes to ashes it was seska that had been resurrected rather than a nobody ensign? Like maybe she could come back but not remember who she was or what she had done. Like have a whole arc about her discovering herself and being disgusted by it and then saving the ship and rejoining the crew.
What do you mean 'even the actress who played her thought Seska's death was a bad idea'? Of course she did, moron. Every actor hates when their character is killed off - they lose money and have to look around for a now job!! How stupid are you?
New job. Typo lol.
@@markfox1545 Amazing comment, Mark. Well done.
@Star There Seska would have been a good foil to keep causing trouble
Seska was my first favorite character in Voyager, so I was delighted when she got a bigger role in the story but crestfallen when they turned her into a Cardassian and then, soon afterward, killed her off. I wish she'd been a Bajoran all along--more interesting that way, as the Bajorans are written as a sympathetic species whereas the Cardassians are coded as villains, and so her point of view would be taken more seriously, like Kira's was in DS9 or Ro's was in TNG. And I wish she'd remained on Voyager as an antipode to Janeway. Seska's pragmatism wasn't right or wrong; it was just different from Janeway's point of view. This is the Starfleet-Maquis tension we were told Voyager would center on but which never actually got delivered on.
Not all Cardassians were villains, Garak is quite an honourable chap. Ceska is kind of an anti-Garak, a spy who once isolated from her people turned bad. Also didn’t Ro turned into a villain and left the Enterprise ?
@@lerouxmartin3478 I'm now wondering that if you called Garak honorable he'd think he was being insulted or not? :)
I guess you're right. You can't call stupidity right or wrong. For example, the fact she wanted to ally herself with the Kazon, instead of trying to get home, yet she listed getting home as one of her objectives. It's just her dumb point of view, but you can't call it wrong since it's her opinion of what's best. Still doesn't mean that's what 100% of the rest of the crew would have done, but it's not wrong in her opinion/eyes. Or, the fact she didn't think the Kazon would go back on their word the moment they got what they wanted, because they have a whole fleet and light-years of space under their command, while Seska, if she succeeded, would only have one ship.
@Josh Fredman - Great observation; Seska's POV would have been harder to dismiss if it came from a race currently allied with the Federation.
For the record, I think Seska had a point. Janeway's decision to destroy the Caretaker Array was silly, and not at all required by the Prime Directive. She was simply reacting to her own personal sense of morality, and not Starfleet's interests.
@@lerouxmartin3478 Ro was never a villain. She left the Enterprise, but she did it because she was a good person, who just didn't align perfectly with the Federation's goals at the time. She even said that she regretted letting Picard down, but it was necessary from her point of view.
I can see why Janeway wouldn't want to give barbarians like the Kazon Replicator technology. It's like giving bratty teenagers the controls to a nuclear arsenal.
Until they learn to program the replicators for that
I wouldn't have either. They make Klingons look sane and rational plus Klingons at least have some degree of honour to them and treat their women well.
The Kazon are much like Hillary supporters.
The Kazon weren't liked characters on Star Trek.
The Kazon couldn't make the replicators work even when handed them on a silver platter. Instead of simply leaving, Seska should have killed Janeway. In fact, its a miracle that the Kazon got as far as they did, since most of their tech is stolen anyway, and they're so prone to infighting.
Seska, doesn't say "Federations Fools"... she says "Federation Rules"
Though she does end up calling Janeway and Chakotay fools.
Federation Fools sounds better anyway.
Well, there are no quotation marks in the title, so it's not like the uploader was quoting her.
Same thing
@@spudhead169 Nah.
"we need allies, so let's hook up with one of the most tech inferior and disorganized species in the Delta Quadrant".
I think her argument was that with Voyager’s advanced weaponry and The Kazon’s ruthless nature they’d be unstoppable
Actually it was just the people where were inferior. The tech was stolen from the Trabe and was pretty powerful.
Just like Cardasia dealing with the Dominion. OH WAIT!....
I thinks it’s that the Kazon are dumb enough to be easily manipulated
and this is why people liked this character so much
When Seska died, man fans thought it was wrong. Many Star Trek fans sent in letters and several magazines thought Seska being killed off was a mistake. Eventually she was brought back in two more episodes. The actress who played her even thought her death was wimpy but she said she was a supporting character and had no say what happens to Seska.
+
Edgy Meme God from The Future: Year 2077
Janeway was written as wildly inconsistent on her belief structure and principles
people also liked suter as well.
Yea, Seska was a great opposing force to the Federation doctrine. Would have been smart to keep her around most of the series.
@@Megatron-sl5us I never minded that she was killed off. It did make me cry to see the way that it happened because she was trying to get to her baby, but even then it seemed like her story came to a satisfying conclusion. Now Chakotay no longer had her trying to control him or kill his crew members. While I can sympathize that Seska fans didn't want her to leave the show, it still feels like it was time.
Janeway: "we'll have to wait for another day to settle up with Seska!" -The villain gets away, excellent episode!
She did a good job sounding like Dukat there.
Yeah, when she bashed things involving the Federation, she sounded just like Dukat. Seska's ranting here reminded me of when Dukat said "A Federation Trial....." with contempt laced in his voice during the Tom Riker incident where he stole the Defiant.
It's crazy. She looks Bajoran but you can see the cardassian come out of her once she gets exposed.
It was a freaky shift in expression.
The actress does a great job of adjusting her accent ever so slightly to show her Cardassian nature coming out.
It's unfortunate that Seska disappeared during season 2 of Voyager. I always thought she would be a great recurring villain for the crew. She was smart, resourceful and would have made a great foil for Janeway.
sean walsh But then there would be someone to counter Janeway's stupidity, and of course Janeway is always right, even when she's wrong.
Someone's watched the end of 'Alliances' clearly, and you're absolutely right.
Seska disappeared toward the end of season one and didn't return until the middle of season 2. She was a reoccurring villain for the last half of the 2nd season.
Indeed, in fact it would have been interesting if she somehow succeeded in keeping hold of voyager and continued the journey with her, the maquis and the kazon fleet, now that would have been some grand adventure.
But does she look as good in a skin tight body suit?
The shift to "Cardassian mode" is freaky.
I can't believe I ever loved you
@@raven4k998 Oh yeah!
@@Ragitsu look how small you have become
Seska was such a savage. the part at the end where she was like "how could I ever have loved you?" was just cold blooded
Really? She didn't seem cold to me. The others seemed a lot more cold to me.
@@DR--- Strike #2.
Good on the actress for making her mannerisms distinctly Cardassian once she’s caught. Seska was such a squandered villain. She should have killed Kulah and taken over the Kazon sects in Basics imo.
Alternate Ending,
Chakotay: "Computer, override transport in progress" and it _WORKS!_
Seska: Pikachu face
Written and directed by George lucas
Seska really showed her Cardassian heritage in this one.
It took a long time for Janeway to come around to "building a base of power in the quadrant" but when she did, she didn't mess around.
Computer Command XJL what command is that?🤔
Martha Hackett is perhaps one of the true actors that always rises to the occasion.
She is excellent.
Fun fact: she was almost given the role of Dax on DS9
Great actress great character
Would have loved more of her
you thought you can fool an EMH you thought wrong kids.🤣🤣🤣
Seska´s actress did voice for comander Larsen in Stra trek Bridge comander game
:-D
A bit late to reply but no wonder we hated Cmdr Larsen so much xD
Why? I like her as character not Seska but Laresen
As i character in VOY sure, in BC not so much, she was too much of a bitch ;p
She played a lot of characters in Star Trek. Among those 2 characters she was also the Romulan from Deep Space Nine's season 3 premier episode The Search and she played a Klingon in the game Star Trek: Klingon (go figure).
She's a great Star Trek actress. Wished they kept Seska throughout the show.
I mean as much as I love Voyager and hate Seska she does have a point. They had a way to get back and destroy the Caretaker in the process. Apparently using timed demolition charges or converting a torpedo to operate on a delay is Lostech to the Federation in the 24th century. Either that or they didn't think of a really obvious solution. "Captain, we could just set a timed delay on the torpedoes and..."DESTROY THE ARRAY! DAMN THE LUCK!!! NOW WE'RE STUCK IN THE DELTA QUADRANT FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES!!! OH, IF ONLY THERE HAD BEEN ANOTHER OPTION!!!"
Sorry Seska, but this week, the Janeway has decreed that alliances are bad. No promises on how she'll feel about them next week.
@Flekk Bone Gnawer but allying with the Kazon's slave masters is acceptable
*Federation fools, and yet the Cardassian Union is in shambles,, their home world decimated, and they need their "fools" help to rebuild. This episode and many others showed the foolish, short-sighted behavior of the Cardassians!* 👍😎🍺🍻🍺
Not all Cardassians, mind you.
Yes, that's what happens when you're not the writers' favorite race. No amount of announced intelligence can help you against plot armor, can it?
But consider that this episode is set in 2371, she couldn't imagine that Cardassia would try to join the Dominion and that later it would be decimated by them (and the alliance happened in 2373).
Yeah but she's not necessarily wrong about the federation being fools at times.
she makes a good point. it would be like in the old days when colonist and business men would trade the locals trinkets that they viewed as valuable but we did not. janeway is the worst captain in star trek history. instead of putting her crew first she put them second if they were lucky half the time. if i were captain i would do what was needed to keep my crew safe and get them home. the old saying the lesser of two evils exists for a reason theres no such thing as black and wight just gray. it may be frowned upon but ends do justify means in the end.
Seska was a GREAT character in ST Voyager!
Neelix and Kes were both extremely useful additions to the crew. Kes she could read minds and was able to assist the doctor in sickbay. Neelix was able to help keep the crew's morale up and the pantry stocked with food that was safe to eat.
During the journey,they have made a lot of discoveries to keep the ship in one piece. The doctor's mobile emitter which allows him to go anywhere on the ship he is required, the Delta Flyer etc. They have made first contact with many species, all of this information will be used as vital teaching material for future Starfleet cadets.
Star Trek is an addicting series. I love them.
Such a great story arc.
The fact that seska, a cardassian desire an alliance with the kazon, an alien from another quadrant, while few years later, dukat form an alliance with aliens from another quadrant.
In the end she was technically right seeing as Voyager formed alliances or peace treaties with the Borg, Species 8472, the Hirogen via their technology. . .
Poor Chakotay, deceived by that Cardassian beyotch! And poor Janeway! She was nearly in tears. They both need hugs!
I've been that dude that was a dupe. I always thought fool was the right word for early Chakotay, but I guess I need to kind of cut him a little slack.
Martha Hackett. Excellent actor.
Obi Wan: who's the more foolish? The fool! Or the fool who follows him?
Welcome to 2020!
@@franek_izerski Warp 10!
Hot as a Bajoran , hot as a Cardasian and also Martha played the part brilliantly
I find it highly unlikely Voyager couldn't disable a Kazon warship in three minutes, beam Seska back, and be outta there with five minutes to spare.
seska was a great character
Imagine being Chakotay, and having your Maquis cell successfully infiltrated by both Starfleet and the Obsidian Order.
"you were working for starfleet, seska was working for cardassians, was anyone on that ship working for me?" - chakotay to tuvok
Seska would have been a great companion for Dukat. A male and a female insane.
But she was right that the Cardassians would have been back in the Alpha Quadrant so who is the fool?
@Emm Kay weeeeell, dukat DID go insane for a while
One of them would have been dead within the first week.
Nothing about her is insane. Dukat either, until near the end. They were brilliant and both right. Just from a different point of view.
@@ponchoandy If you're defending Cardassian fascism, you may want to reevaluate your morals/ethics.
I remember this episode going out on BBC Two for the first time and this entire scene was hit by sound problems so I didn't hear a word of it until years later.
1:44 I'm just so happy an American show used metric
Well NASA use metric as well
Sometime after TOS, SF use metric properly. During TOS, it was hit and miss with metric.
Arthur Withheld Indeed, but I wish they’d use megameters, gigameters, terameters even. For starships these distances are ridiculously short. And when they say something like “40,000 kilometers,” which is more like it, I just wonder why they didn’t say “40 megameters” instead.
@@aperson22222 or they can start to use AU as a distance but 40000km is to small to count on a AU scale since 1 AU is 149 597 871 kilometers another thing is to use a scandinavian mile where 1 mil is 10km
Why would Seska do that, surely she knew Voyager wasn't staying in that part of space. They don't need to have a Kazon alliance
She was lying. She didn't care about survival of the crew She had her own agenda. She just wanted the technology.
The way Janeway looks at her was like "Really now?"
It's been a while, but unless Voyager was crippled, in ten minutes they could have knocked out the Kazon's shields and transported Seska back over and then warped it out.
Seska: Computer, command XJL.
Commander Chakotay: Computer, override transport in progress.
Computer: Unable to comply. Security lock out is in place.
Captain Janeway: Computer, identify destination of transport.
Computer: A Kazon vessel. 14 kilometers off of port bow.
she was the fool trying to establish a base of power in a region of space that was over 20 years away from their home. what exactly was her plan to stop them betraying her later once they had everything they wanted? don't get me wrong she was a great character in the early seasons but her plan didn't seem fully thought through
They would've been one ship against an army
The same reason Cardassian brass thought an alliance with the Dominion was worth it. They didn't think these things through long term which is why they got burned.
@@generalgrievous696, I don't find it unlikely that Seska's sense of her abilities, easily allowed her to believe that she could manipulate, or just plain out-think Cullah or any other Kazon mage, whenever she needed too.
I like to think Janeway took what Seska said to heart and decided to change her mind about trading technology. That or the network decided the sagging ratings meant a change up in the writing staff.
"Override transport in progress!"
Computer: Unable to comply, you should have said it sooner.
"Why did we install bitchy subroutines, again?"
“ Minor technology that could change the balance of power in this quadran”
And later in the show Janeway breaks that rule when she gives holographic technology to the Hirogens.
And allied with the Borg to help them against Species 8472.
"The one thing I can't understand is... Why?"
What writing
"Cut! Good job, Beltran, but pause a little longer for effect!"
Beltran: 0:15
"Flawless."
@@benjaminoechsli1941 "I did it for you"
It almost reads like a smutty mystery novel
He did complain the the writing for him always seemed a bit wooden…
I would have destroyed the Kazon ship that Seska was. Target the engines blow it out of the sky before those Kazon warships could even get there. Then warp away and be done.
I was thinking thre same thing! I suppose the fight it put up might have delayed and damaged the Voyager enough for the other two to make short work of her... that's the risk she had to weigh. Sure the Voyager can defeat a kazon ship, but how long might it take and how much damage might she sustain in doing so?
What an actress Playing seska
Seska was a true villan. Not just evil just because...what she said had validity to it and Janeway knew it
Does anyone know why Chakotay had shades of grey hair in these earlier Voyager episodes and then had complete dark hair later in the series? Did he dye his hair or something?
He wanted to seduce the Captain so he spruced up his look.
I think the grey is sexy. But maybe Robert Beltran was told he had to color it, or maybe he just wanted to. He was about 42 then, but had been going grey since his 30s as far as I can tell. He's gorgeous either way! 😍
Sorcery i say! Sorcery most foul and dark!
Just for men LoL
Why did they put so much makeup on him, he looks like a transvestite with cat butt lips..
Or was that the idea?
Seska was great.
A better actress than Kate Mulgrew, in my opinion. Seska had smaller parts and fewer lines but delivered them far more convincingly. Janeway's only emotes were angry, stubborn, and domineering - her few "soft" or "happy" moments always seemed insincere and kind of shallow (in my opinion).
@@pwnmeisterage Janeway would give you a hug.
Crazy she's able to just call up the computer to get out of there. Most managers would have disabled your whole account before calling you in.
A consistent problem in all Trek iterations. Just basic access control is beyond their ability it seems. Even the alien-of-the-week could sometimes come onboard and in no time at all, beat Voyager's crew at taking control of their own computer.
The trouble is the Cardassians are as cruel as the Kazons.
They then leave the crew to die on That desert planet, probably would of starved to death
Martha Hackett, who played a Cardassian, a Bjoran, a Romulan, a Klingon and more. An absolutely stunning woman, who has such unique beauty that she is unforgettable, like Michelle Gomez or Jeri Ryan or indeed like Kate Mulgrew or Rosario Dawson.
0:08 Sisko: thank you very much, Mr. Garak. Now please face the wall. Especially the wall. 2:00 - and so the primary derective goes into the basket. From what we know, it even exceeds safety of ship and preservation of crew's life, which is why it is number One. They should try at ALL COSTS to catch this ship or destroy it.
So... all the times in Voyager where they do hand out technology/knowledge at some point... it virtually always comes back to haunt them.
The fact that Janeway is almost crying because she was called a fool, but also so angry because the baddy got away. The torment and anguish is plain on her face, such good acting!
Janeway likely feels some guilt for stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant even if she's convinced that she had to in order to protect the Ocampa from the Kazon /which was the right decision to make/ so Seska struck a nerve.
@@girlgardeWell, that's made pretty clear in Night, so no real speculation, although for the most part, she kept any such thoughts neatly buried away.
@@girlgarde But Seska was right. The Cardassians would have returned home.
@@ianhirst1148 Yeah because they wouldn't have cared what happened to the Ocampa. Of course, I never expected Seska to understand or care about the Ocampa once she was revealed to be a Cardassian.
Seska is a great character!
She's not wrong. . . . She just chose the wrong allies.
Such short sighted thinking: "What does it matter if we give superior technology to aliens locked in a war? _we_ need to get home!"
You're an idiot. Like Janeway.
Cardassians are great at profiting in the short term; in the long term, Cardassians usually end up with the short end of the stick.
That was *after* Janeway had made the decision that stranded them in the Delta Quadrant, though. As Seska says in this scene: 'If this was a Cardassian vessel, we would already be home.' If they had done things her way from the start, they'd have blown the everloving crap out of any alien ships in their way and abused the Caretaker's power to return home lickety split. And there would be no consequences to their actions for them, because any consequences would be confined to the Delta Quadrant and they wouldn't feel guilty in the slightest.
There is some merit in what she is saying. It's incredibly unscrupulous and cruel, but it would have been the most effective way back home.
@@Xylarxcode I mean the only reason Janeway destroyed the caretaker's array was that she wanted to protect the ocampa from being attacked by the Kazon And she didn't want to influence the development of the Kazon by giving them access to superior tech. All things which a cardassian commander would never even consider in making a decision. There is a way home PERIOD. Let's take it 😂
Seska in two words.
Brilliantly Crafty...
Every plan went according to plan.
Only Tuvok wasn't far behind her schemes and as usual his suspicions were warranted
Seska is a very interesting character. She was highly trained and even educated to get this far. I would've loved to see her Character to live too.
Also Seska is a realist too, she knew Voyager can't survive the Delta Quadrant without adapting which they learned the hard way.
If she had survived Basics, she would've found herself in the Brig until Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay agree what to do with her. She would be like the Protagonist's Mother in the show Bones too where Seska may have to play a vital role to benefit Voyager (But Seska won't do it for free, like she may ask for extra blankets, some Cardassian momentous or even transfer from the Brig to Secured Quarters.)
It would've made Voyager more interesting, even with more tension between Marques and Starfleet personnel.
I would have to agree with Seska that the Captain was a fool. But then, there would be no show.
I remember this.
Seska was evil but I can see her point of siding with whatever allies she could find.
I'm thinking the woman was young and scared.
Wouldn't you be, if you were stuck that far from your home. On a ship with people who would have hated you for your race?
@@MeAndMira The funny thing is, they probably wouldn't have. But she couldn't see that, because she hated them for theirs.
I liked Seska, and early Voyager had some pretty good writing and concepts
If Seska had been able to adjust her loyalty to her Maquis/U.S.S. Voyager crewmates She would have been the First Cardassian to serve in Starfleet Command. Voyager's Seven years in the Delta Quadrant would have been different with Seska in the crew.
and this is why you lock out the command codes of the obsidian order traitor you've discovered before you unmask them.
"I've also got 2 Kazon Warships less than 10 minutes away."
"Awesome, that gives us about 5 minutes to ruin the one Kazon ship that we massively outgun and get Seska back."
The risk is that they are damaged during the fight and can't flee. It wasn't worth it.
Love it!💯
I liked the character of Seska because kind of reminded me of Gul Dukat. I wished she would have stayed on the ship as a Cardassian but working with them instead of betraying them.
I'm glad the Kazons faded in importance. They looked like yard-sale villains from Saturday Night Live.
I'd say teaming with the Kazons wasn't particularly worth it either. Low tech, hyper tribalist, and not particularly reliable- might as well team with the Pakled for all the good it would have done.
@Thelondonbadger You should make a video on the secret genius of the Pakleds.
@Thelondonbadger You're not in this for the attention; you're in this to share your point-of-view and to make a compelling argument. With quality content, the right sort of people will trickle in to your video.
Agreed. The crew of Voyager made the right call in not allying with the Kazon and later on, made the right call in allying with the Trabe /briefly of course/ since the Kazon all hated Voyager and saw them as being like the Trabe so they may as well ally with the Trabe and get a fairly strong ally.
I'm sore that the alliance with the Trabe didn't work out and looking back, they had the right idea in trying to kill off the leadership of several Kazon sects as the Kazon can't be reasoned with in the long term.
@drolgh8 I'm not surprised, the Kazon are as thuggish and scummy as them.
Actually if this was Picard's Enterprise we'd also be home right now, tough luck folks!
Only because of Wesley Crusher's transcendent abilities.
With the Borg, "DS9" (which did reference them afterwards, even though they didn't show but once in the pilot) and "Voyager" couldn't do it essentially because they were not really petty creatures. Even in "First Contact," and "DS9" their mechanical nature somewhat took over them. But yes the Borg went through the they-deny-their-crimes bit too because they were humanized to the point of no return by the time "Voyager" and UPN in general was in their prime apex of glory - 1998.
Seska’s methods might have been unorthodox but she was quite right. Voyager needed to build alliances in order to aid its objective of returning to the Alpha Quadrant. Janeway was too fixated with following Starfleet protocols and Federation values.
That's why Captain Kurt, Spock, Captain Picard, & Riker were good they knew when to break protocol especially Captain Kurt especially when beautiful women were on the scene Kurt was going to save the ship 😂😂😂😂😂
Kirk not Kurt!
10 mins was plenty of time for them to immobilize the ship and get seska and still escape
I thought the crew did not blame Janeway for leaving them stranded in the alpha quadrant.
Seska was the exception.
Using the Array to go back wouldn't have been the best option anyways. Being brought there killed people, being sent back the same way would've also killed people.
It would have been interesting if she was revealed as a Cardassian but not the traitor.
I wonder if this betrayal ended up uniting the two crews.
She made some reasonable, dare I say logical, points🤔
No, she really didn't.
One thing that has ALWAYS confused me about this scene - Seska transports to a vessel a mere 14km away. In space, thats a TIIIINY distance. In fact, its very likely close to weapons range with each other if not already in that range. Why in the shit did tom or anyone else on the bridge not call for red alert, and tell the captain that a kazon vessel was quite literally right next to them?
Janeway didn't figure out how to spam torpedoes yet.
What’s amusing is that Janeway took a page out of her book and joint a temporary alliance with the Borg. Yes the circumstances are different but still… 🤷♂️
"Minor technology that could change the balance of power in this quadrant!" preacheth Janeway, the same Janeway who would hand over biological weapons research to the Borg and happily trade the technology to create sentient holographic warriors to the Hirogen. How's that silly ol' replicator looking now, Kathy?
Hologram tech isn't as destabilizing as the ability to make actual weapons, plus the Hirogen weren't as destructive as the Kazon. And she never gave the Borg the Bio-Weapons. She knew they were just going to backstab them.
@Flekk Bone Gnawer Species 8472.
When I saw this episode I wondered if she was the daughter of that cardassian from deep space nine who Kira was forced to impersonate.
the problem is that, shes correct. sure, it would change the balance of power in the system, but it would at least make friends in high places where they can be protected long enough to not have to make that damn deal with the borg. i disliked that janeway did that, because when you make any deal with the borg, your effectively making a deal with the devil, and you ain't always gonna be prepared for what they'll start throwing.
personally tho, if i was janeway, and i made the choice to strand my crew in the delta quadrant, i'd have a plan in place already:
any science based officers should start developing research on upgrading our weapons, shields, and improving energy efficiency of the holo-rooms and replicators effective immediately, and i would've already had a entire cargo hold made into a hydroponics/aquaponics bay, for use when food rations start being low. and i would've started asking neelix if he knows any contacts for supplies and such in the quadrant. if he says yes, i'd tell him to be ready, we might need to trade.
the more efficient stuff is, and the more powerful weapons and shields are, the more likely we can keep the ship from being blown to bits, and the less the crew has to use replicators for food rations the better everything is. i would've even had someone renovate the mess hall so they can have a kitchen. neelix wouldn't need my approval.
that sector was gonna be 100% unexplored, from the get go, there would be untold perils and alliances we have to face, it wouldn't be wise to sit and complain or request permission to convert certain areas into key points.
all the allies we can get, means less fighting to worry about later. but no revealing technology, because all technology would be pretty much zip zip, less they get the brig treatment and thats what janeway did in the start of the first episode, she revealed to the kazon that she had technology to make water from thin air, that was not a smart move on her part.
the thing is even by federation standards captain janeways choice to destory the array was questionable at best. i could maybe see jhonatan archer season 1 or 2 doing that that but i mean any other captain i can not see them making that choice.
thewewguy8t88, So you're suggesting that Picard would have just left the Ocampa to the tender mercies of the Kazon? I have to question that. He might have devised a different scheme, but blithely leave them to be f**ked over, or worse? No.
@@mitchellmelkin4078 well i mean more then once he was willing to let and entire planet die for the prime directive. but then again so was janeway not 2 episodes later lol
@@thewewguy8t88, I don't believe there's too much doubt that interpretation of how the PD applied in various situations, informed various captains' decisions on the course of action they would take, throughout the canon, not just in the absence of the Starfleet being anywhere within hailing distance, as was the case with Janeway.
In deciding to intervene on behalf of the Ocampa, Janeway isn't simply doing a solid for a race she personally feels sympathy for. They are facing immediate predation from another warp capable race, one which Voyager has already come into conflict with. Moreover, that same dynamic had previously been forced on the Ocampa (albeit, for a nominally benevolent rationale) many centuries earlier, by the Nacene, in recompense for their catastrophic blunder on the planet.
Hence, it hardly seems to be a rash or inherently ill-considered determination that Janeway reaches. Although one can argue that Kirk's rationale in supplying weapons to the Hill People (in a Private Little War) to counteract the Klingons' altering the balance of power within a pre-warp civilization, was a reflection of a less 'enlightened' Starfleet from over a century earlier, it does represent a precedent (as do other instances ftom OST).
I will admit a lack of knowledge as to the extent of Picard's actions in this regard, but I'm certainly aware that in-universe, he admitted several instances of violating the PD, which obviously, didn't result in him getting removed from command or sanctioned by Starfleet in any genuinely meaningful manner. So, to assuredly claim what he might have done when faced with the exact same circumstances as were extant in Caretaker, appears uncertain at best, IMO.
I assume your pointing to what Janeway did in Time and Again, as being the subsequent episode you mentioned. Yes, she was insistent on allowing the unnamed alien civilization to be destroyed because of their own apparent misunderstanding/mishandling of the widedpread use of an unstable type of energy . However, she unreservedly reversed that determination, upon realizing that the presence of Paris and herself, by itself, played a 'contaminating' part in the disaster (although its full consequence wasn't understood until the story's final moments).
I love Janeway, but maybe she should have used the Caretaker device to send Voyager home, but she herself stay behind to detonate the tri-cobalt device.
It's been decades since I saw that episode, so I might be missing something.
They didn’t know how to at the time… Which they didn’t have, since the Kazon were about to overpower them and take control of the array.
Don't overthink it.
It was their own tricobalt device. They knew how to detonate it. And Janeway could’ve been in a shuttle or escape pod.
Not overthinking. Just thinking.
Martha Hackett is damn good as an actress.
Ten minutes seems like plenty of time to blow the one ship up and get the hell outta there.
Right? I cannot believe that Voyager couldn't take out the shields of one Kazon ship far less capable than they are, within 10 minutes.
Janeway: I saved the Ocampa! I mean I left three seconds later, and they only had at best five years before the Kazon would wipe them out....but I still saved them....kinda