Totally agree on the "get your competitive fix somewhere else" I usually recommend people proxy and play cedh so that they can get the feeling of competition and playing strong cards in a format made for it rather than jamming rhystic studies in every casual deck
Just like some stax pieces that are equalizers, that punish some players and the others get rewarded. Think of rest in piece, null rod, blood moon... So I shouldn't play them or what's the point?!
@@patrickdernacktaffe2296 I think the point is that boardwipes always help people that have been lagging behind, since they naturally have less things to lose and some cards in hands. Stax might help the deck already winning more than other decks, and make their lead worse.
I think he specifically compared raise the palisade to farewell is that a one sided board clear doesnt slow the game down as much. If peope are completely clearing the biard every couple turns the game can drag on and get boring
While this is partly correct, and again, I'm not saying don't run board wipes at all, this phrase sounds like it comes from an early frog, where I played lots of standard and my main decks were Psychatog or UW control. Boardwipes is a whole video in itself, but I don't think it's that black and white at all, and the problem is that there's 2/4 players that are going to get caught in the crossfire at least half the time.
Your point on having multiple different decks that do different things at varying levels is so important, especially as veteran deckbuilders; we almost have a responsibility to have lower powered decks to play with friends who are new to the game and have a good time, but also have higher powered decks for a quick, brutal time. Great video as always BDD!
Your take on board wipes seems wild to me. I usually see board wipes played as a "thank god!" moment, stopping a player who was growing out of control. What you called "generic" board wipes I usually hear called "fair" since you have to give up your own stuff to make the play while one sided board wipes are most often used to snowball someone even further ahead.
Yeah, it's definitely more nuanced than board wipes are bad, but his criticisms are valid. Board wipes can be used to great effect that is enjoyable for the table or they can be used to drag a game on further than people would like. I don't think people should move away from board wipes, but instead play ones that allow the game to progress such as 'Promise of Loyalty', or at the very least consider how the board wipe will effect the game before casting it.
@@euanh but then i completely dont understand the vendetta against Farewell. Farewell totally has to ability to be an asymmetric wipe, clearing all artifacts/enchants or enchants/creatures, leaving the core type of your deck on the battlefield. If all players are choosing to use Farewell as a hard reset on all modes every time then that fault is on them, not the card imo.
@@euanh For sure. If everyone is looking tired and ready to be done, I will just choose not to cast the board wipe in my hand, that doesn't mean you shouldn't include them in your decks. Like he said in another point just make the plays that result in the most fun. You could even ask the table for permission to discard the board wipe and draw a new card that hopefully moves you closer to ending the game.
@@jackveith2416 I agree, 'Farewell' can be used to progress the game forwards by selectively choosing the modes that best advantage yourself allowing you to pull ahead. However, many use farewell as a reset of board state, and unless you have a demanding lead on lands and cards in hand, you will not be progressing that game forward. Although a card cannot be to blame for how a player chooses to use it, the card is still responsible for allowing such as state to happen so easily. 'Farewell' could have been limited to 2 modes, which would alleviate some of the hatred.
Get your competitive fix somewhere else. You don't have to stop those people that get out of control. Just let them win and play another game. Casual commander is four players playing solitair
Man what a refreshing take on removal and controll decks in general. kind of annoying that most youtuber advice is just ADD MORE REMOVAL without the discussion what that does to the format where you want to do something fun with your commander.
Glad you enjoyed it ❤️ there's a time and place for everything including control, but I definitely see too many arguments for it that are inherently in the service of winning. Thanks for watching !
@@BasedDeckDeptI think a lot of it is well meaning advice for people upset over losing. Which really shouldn’t be a thing in a casual setting. So I’m torn because I like high power casual _and_ I think better advice for that group would be “care less about losing.”
In a world of content creators supporting plays that win in a turn or two and 'Oops, all removal', one man stands to advocate interesting and interactive, dare I say "Fun", games.
If you’re worried about creatures spiraling out of control, play a couple fog effects in place of those extra board wipes. Fogs can make a friend and rarely make an enemy. Still keep a wipe or two, but use it only after the creature player has shot their shot or you have an opportunity to make the wipe one sided.
i really love your videos so much because they broaden my horizen more than any videocreator else, because your takes are just so wildy different to my perspective or how my pod works. really appreciate it!
I love the sentiment of throwing caution into the wind for the sake of making memorable plays. One time I used enchantment exile removal on my own indestructible god just cause one person at the table (not even the person I was originally targetting) pointed out I could exile my own thassa if I wanted to, and so I did. I don't remember anything else from that game, but I'll never forget that moment
@@BasedDeckDept haha yep I found your channel recently, and have actually already watched the last couple videos too, but I think this one resonated the most with me so far. I agree with a lot of your philosophies, though, and I'm excited to see where you take your channel as you start getting more attention!
My Sheldon the Commander deck is made for this, I have a blast playing chaos that literally gives people their spells for free, braids, wild invocation, and twists like hive mind, possibility storm. The most fun I have is when I accidentally someone into their winning pieces, forcing someone to teferi's protection on their upkeep.
@@BasedDeckDeptI saw frogs in bloomburrow that could be made into an antimill typal frog deck. I have a friend that has two mill focused decks. So, he and I had fun testing the deck with proxies 😂
Your videos keep matching my thoughts - curate experience, cultivate fun, and make memories! While listening to this one I was compiling artifact lists for Oswald Fiddlebender and Arcum Dagsson, and it hit me: Lantern Control............Group Hug ?! Build around the lantern control shell and help curate game experience/flow via give and take deck manipulation rather than strictly ruining players' draws. Oswald can have that online pretty rapidly. Arcum probably has the higher ceiling + being blue. "Yes, you can have that Protean Hulk, but you know I just drew Teferi's Protection. Plan accordingly." "I know what so-and-so is about to do with that card. If you don't attack/kill me right now, I'll make them mill it." "I'll activate this Pyxis and put it all into play to get us back up and running after that boardwipe." "Don't worry, this Static Orb is temporary - keeping us alive from the archenemy until so-and-so draws that answer." I *think* stax pieces can be fun used this way. I'm willing to try. Finally a clear home for a card I think is heavily underused in general: Glasses of Urza. See what people have/need, and yap respectfully/responsibly lol. The ultimate game of information. New rabbit hole to dive down!
I appreciate the recommendations for BJJ! I feel like there are some great shared lessons there. For example, you want to be a training partner people want to train with. When you're better than someone, don't go 100% and smash them every time, give them a chance to transition through some positions and maybe let them attempt a sweep or submission before you take back the initiative. When you're worse than someone, lose with grace instead of getting upset and try to learn something from them. I think everybody should give BJJ a try, it's awesome. Great competitive outlet that will get you in shape and teach so many life lessons.
I've been struggling with my brewing burn out, so I always appreciate new MTG content to help me think about what I can do better/make the gameplay more fun
Glad I could help My video about building decks that are fun to lose to may add some inspiration. When I have brewing burn out, I either go build a budget deck like some of those I've done videos on, or if all else fails just take a break
Yeah this is honestly super true for newer players building their first few decks. Its also (like always) very important to communicate with who ur playing with. I basically have 3 types of commander settings 1: the low-mid power which u describe where i play fun decks without crazy cards like sol ring 2:high power where we get that competitiveness out with faster games usually 3: Cedh where sometimes it can be fun to have a crazy counterspell war on turn 2 where i still lose the game. Its all about the other 3 people being on the same page. Bringing a cedh deck to high power isnt fun just how bringing low power to cedh isnt fun. You really need to know what kind of game the table is expecting
Thanks for watching, and the input A lot of what you've said (alignment, communication, etc) I covered in my last video about how to make more friends in EDH. You'd likely agree with most of that, and enjoy the video
The second commander I built was a group-hug/chaos deck back in 2013 with Karona. I quickly realized how unfun most of chaos cards are and I've been fine-tuning the chaos pieces since then. Today Kenrith is the face of the deck, and it's really fun to play with/against (or so I've heard)!
Thanks for watching It sounds like you've finished the journey many have yet to properly start. Curious about your Kenrith deck, as I'm busy converting my 3 colour omage to Sheldon's "you did this to yourself, to a 5 colour shell".
Every pod must have gruul. The growling frothing guy in the corner of the table who takes no quarter from anyone. I really like yarus, roar of the old gods. Swing swing swing draw draw draw. I don't care if you hit me back, 40's a lot of life.
I agree with some points but one I definitely don't agree with is the "don't play to win" all decks in my opinion should want to win because having your 3 opponents trying to beat you and each other is what creates more dynamic tension at the table, if you can have a chance to win and pass it up that's fine but a deck should want and be able to win if it's necessary to close out a 3h game because being in a game for that long sometimes it's better to give up and go for a game at another table.
Thanks for watching ❤️ id clarify I'm not saying never to win, or to build decks or play in ways that permanently stalls the game, but as someone who played many, many years of formats where you simply don't make inefficient plays, being willing to is a good thing. I have an entire video about winning more in commander that I made recently, so I'm definitely anti winning. I just think most people are too pro winning, and could do with being silly once in a while.
I think it is important that winning isn't the highest priority, but that you still try to win the game you're in. If winning is the highest priority, you will make deck building decisions to screw over the people you typically play against and just gravitate towards cEDH. You can play cEDH and I encourage those wanting to prioritize winning in commander to go there. I see the point being made in the video in line with this and not a "don't ever try to win" video. Because that just leads to mass chaos lol
My Group Hug deck wincon is being second place! There was once I won with the deck. It was only because the other person killed them self... Also my Dino Fight club also has Sorrow's Path I am also making different types of Dino Tribal. So even though it is Dino Tribal! Each one plays completely different
My two (maybe three?) favorite board wipes in commander are: 1. Breaking Point. I run this in my Ceaser deck. My goal is to play as Ceaser with heavy politics and punish anyone who doesn’t join the legion. People laugh at the idea of paying six up until everyone has 12 hp. It gets better the longer the game goes most of the time and gives other players interaction with it. 2. Devastating Mastery. I run this in my Lavinia deck where I roleplay as the police. My stax pieces are my laws that people need to follow. Rule breakers get punished. This lets me punish the board but protect law abiding citizens. 3. Bar Room Brawl. I run this in my Gluntch deck and it’s so much fun. It’s a potential board wipe or just about near it but gives each player something to interact with so they make it as big or small as they’d like to. Farewell is boring. Wrath of god is funny if it’s thematic like in an all clerics deck.
These are such bangers friend. Can't wait to chain of smog brawl someone soon. I want to link this in my playgroups discord, but I want to save the joy of them getting brawled for the first time. I'm starting to look forward to your input in the comments section when I put out a new video
@@BasedDeckDept Oh, thanks. I think your videos are cool and I kind of want to make a few of my own mtg videos. tbh I’ve watched more of your vids than the professor guy’s videos. Hearing you talking about chaos decks really made me think. Because I’m working on a Zedruu deck and calling it “The Multiverse of Madness” where my goal is to mess up and swap around as much stuff as possible by messing with permanents, giving people weird rules to deal with, and universes beyond cards making appearances from across the multiverse. I want to use Avarice Totem, Future Sight (giving it away), and really wanted to use Scrambleverse as my one “Board Wipe” sitting the chaos theme. A bit worried about people hating scrambleverse too much though, I hear a lot negative about it the more I look into it. I was going to go with warp world at first but that messed with people’s lands which I know most people hate.
@@Jupiterbun-bunJetson We take those And yeah my advice here is that everything is ok in moderation. Got some goad? That's ok. Got only goad, less ok. Got some removal? That's ok. Got only removal? That's a problem. The same can be said for swapping peoples stuff.etc. If you do it once or twice a game, people may actually like it. If no one is ever able to keep their commander in play or have their deck work, they're going to hate it. For me personally, my biggest problem with cards like scrambleverse are the time investment to resolve the spell, and the time it takes to make sure you get all your cards back. The amount of times one ends up losing a card, or getting an extra one is way too high. A fact only made 10 times worse if two people in the pod have identical sleeves. It's also just a but yucky, for the lack of a better word, especially if one's playing with strangers. So my advice is, if you're mostly giving gifts (or traps) I think you're fine. Beyond that, moderation is key.
If you have trouble not trying to win, play a bad deck and try to win. I have a Jon Irenicus deck that's pretty bad, but when I play it, I try to win because if I do, I'm still way worse than the rest of the table.
I definitely agree. Yesterday i was playing with my friends, it was not commander because we had only modified starters, so it's a standard but with 4 players. So the situation was critical for other players when i played One ring to rule them all, which was progressing to the second step, which is a board wipe of all non legendary and i controlled 4 of them. Other players tried it all to stop me. The last one had two big green creatures and two little ones, as his last resource he cast Hazardous Blast (it prevents the target player's creatures from blocking that turn) and he kills me with exactly 15 damage which was my whole life. Sadly i lost but i understood that if i hadn't played the card maybe i could have played more and all could have had more fun. (i play slightly modified Sauron starter) You could say I role played Sauron lol
You're the first person to mention it! Snail's perspectives inspired me to start sharing my own ideas about magic, so I feel it's only fair to pay homage to the mighty snail. One day when we get a Snail comment, I'll have made it
Agree a lot with what you say in the video, I would half agree on the boardwipes take I would say as a casual player I encountered 3 types of players: -the win at all cost player (the less fun that don't care if they win turn 4) -the very casual that don't run a lot of interactions and just want to see the fun of what their decks can do -the casual/control player that play for the win but without big wincon turn 4 and infinite broken stuff To me the fun comes from the players saying in which category they are and picking same vibes decks, I personnally run a few interaction/boardwipes/counter magic but I want to get countered and see a lot of back and forth in the game and never see a clear winner until the very end (around turn 7-14). What annoys me is when I go to my LGS to play and see a guy saying his deck is a "7 ou of 10" (which means nothing) and turn 5-6 proceed to make a 15 min turn with storm interactions. I would say the fun comes from a hard winned game where the players played for the win but without well known broken cards or with old cards that nobody knows and dont see play anywhere else.
Thanks for watching I agree with a lot of this. I think the key thing is alignment and communication, which I spoke about a bunch in my other recent video about making more friends in commander. Those "my decks about a 7" types that create negative play patterns aka making everyone fall asleep while the stumble to a maybe win, should get one chance in any community to prove they're not that type of person. If they fail, I at least won't play with them again. Life's too short
A couple weeks ago at my college TCG club I was about to kill all 4 other players in a pod of 5, after dropping Jetmir onto a wide board in my Baylen, the Haymaker deck. I got Aetherized and the whole table got to swing in at me to knock me out before my next turn. It was fantastic
@@BasedDeckDept Gandalf of the secret Fire, he suspends card with 3 counters (super cool as it is a refernce to the movie :D ) i did 4 versions of him but i cannot hit the right spot. As always, great channel and thx for the videos!
@@Andrea-jg3sh Ohhhh that's an interesting one. I had him in my Aragorn, The Uniter spellslinger deck for a while. I took him out because he was slow and didn't achieve much, so that may just be the core problem right there. But I will ponder
@@BasedDeckDept I tried the standard spellsing with guttersnipe ecc.. (boring), token actually pretty strong but doesn't feel thematic (boring) and my latest version an hybrid with enchant + inst/sorc wich is strong but not really happy with the mix. Trying to lean to a bit of control with fast spells + ways to remove time counter and rituals to pump mana for a BIG hitter🤣
@@Andrea-jg3sh Yeah time counter manipulation would almost be a must... I don't like Storm in commander, but there's something about the idea of fun control cards, then you manage the time counters to set up a bunch of spells for a big storm turn... because... a wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to
Disagaree. Classic control and stax doesnt have to be limited to competitive playgroup. It leads to fun decision making where you try to bait out their removal/counterspells and more carefully apply your resources in a way that can be very enjoyable to play against if you give it a chance.
Appreciate you watching and the input. If your pod/playgroup agrees with you, then that's all that matters. Alignment is the most important. Fun decision making is subjective and what matters is whether the 3 people who are the one's having to make those decisions, thinks they are indeed fun. Fwiw I have many decks I have no issue playing into control and stax, and I have decks that have those elements, so I'm not against them en masse. My recent video talking about playgroup dynamics (make more friends in edh) goes into more detail.
The point about new players in the last part applies to me, I'm just 2 months in to playing mtg mostly pauper and recently commander, I ended up building a $100 Stella Lee deck (had inspiration from your stella video). My playgroup plays mostly on the $100 limit as of now and consists of Winota, Yuriko, Ghyrson, Ghalta, Krenko and Phelia as commanders. Did I end up building a not so fun deck compared to my playgroup? because my stella lee deck only wants to win as fast as possible. Also, which fun commanders do you recommend for me to try as a new player that has only played the izzet colors? and i only have a few collection of cards so far, and most of them are in izzet. Thank you!
I’m super new to commander and on my very first game a guy brought out a 10/10 an 8/8 and had a card that made there damage equal to the number of lands or some other counter he ended up having like 46 damage with all his creatures attacking was not very fun and I think a board wipe might have been the best counter although I don’t believe I have a “board wipe” card 😢
Haha, magic can be like that at the start. You should watch some of my other recent videos, I think they'll set you up for enjoying your time spent on commander. At the start, it's finding people you enjoy playing with, and decks that you enjoy playing, regardless of who wins or loses
Im a new magic player. I find that the decks i find fun encite anger in other players because everyone wants no interactions between decks (removal, stax, counters, or even token spam for some reason). So the game is reduced to mono green beatdown, and if you play anything else, it's "not fair". Kinda of a turn off but i think people should play any and all cards they like consequences be damned.
I don't envy new players in commander, as the social written and unwritten rules are so complicated, and they differ per person. It sounds to me like you're playing with people that want a different experience, and you'll be happier if you find people with a similar viewpoint as yours. Believe me they're out there. Also watch my video on making more friends in EDH, I think it may help
I agree with this but don't love how its worded, but yeah, create fun and encourage more games of variety, decision making and engagement, rather than staxy boardwipe reset grindfests,. completely agree 😊
@BasedDeckDept oh God I don't know exactly just after watching lol that's script writing, whole different skillset. I'll mull it over, might get back to you if I remember
I wish I could tell my usual pod about this without coming across as extremely passive aggressive lol "Hey guys, watch this guide on how to have more fun .. you guys need to see this for .. uhh, a reason unrelated to how you usually play .." Most of the people either play anti-fun decks or the hardiest control that draw games out for ages upon ages. Recently I have found myself only building aggro decks, and I realised it's because I must try to counter the boring drawn out meta that usually ensues. For instance I have made an "anti-gainlife" deck that's all about eviscerating everyone's life total and keeping it from just rising nonstop. My reward? Getting targeted with every removal from everyone, and usually ending up dying first of everyone. Not because I have the strongest board or anything, but simply because I have the cane in the wheel to what they are trying to do (even when someone else has cards out that are actively winning them the game...). In any case it cuts the games down from 2,5-3 hours to 1-1,5 hour, so I suppose mission accomplished? It's just a pity it's at the expense of my own enjoyment quite often - when your commander gets swords-to-plowshares or similarly removed for the 3rd time in the game while there are bigger problems on board it's increasingly dull. (For the curious - the deck in question is a rakdos (black-red) deck built around punishing control and lifegain. The commander is Lord of Pain, which actively deals damage to all opponents, and has the passive ability 'Opponents can't gain life'. I also have 2 more cards with the effect that opponents, or players as a whole, can't gain life, and especially life-decimators such as Master of Cruelties along with combo cards that grant creatures haste, and some cards that make 1 creature unblockable until the end of the turn...)
Haha, you should watch my recent video about making more friends in commander... There's a point in there about sharing content with your playgroup in the hopes they take something from it.. For what it's worth, part of the reason my play group is great, is because of just sharing content we find interesting or helpful. Creators like Snail are shared regularly because it simply broadens the horizons of peoples view points, rather than aiming to call people out. If they feel called out though, that's probably for good reason Thanks for watching, and hope you manage to convince your play group to be a bit more flexible in their approach to the game.
@@BasedDeckDept Well, I found the solution of simply getting a 2nd playgroup, one that (at least for now) plays a bit more balanced, sometimes even aggro. :) I can play slow games with the first one that prefers that, and more random or aggro stuff with the second one, and everyone is happy for the most part!
I tend to have the exact opposite opinion as you (and probably most people) on stax in casual commander. Stax is my favorite archetype of deck (to play with or against). My favorite games I have ever played have were the result of multiple stax decks creating a labyrinth of a board state, where no one can do the thing they planned on doing. All of my least favorite games have been when some generic mid-range value pile 'does its thing' and just runs the table over with a tsunami of ramp, draw, and bombs.
Appreciate the input man🤜🤛 Worth mentioning I don't personally hate stax. I just play with or against stax on the right terms, with the right people, and with the right decks.
@@BasedDeckDept I agree that stax and control in general can be unfun if the other people at the table are unprepared for that kind of game. If I rolled up to my LGS with my smokestack deck and played it against a pod of precons, no one would have fun in that game.
It is something I am struggling with. I wanted to make rakdos/black group-hug, to be that evil friend giving stuff, for a price... with no real plan to win... Or make Thantis/Some_other_Goad commander, but I still dont know how to make it fun - since I would make ppl attack, but how do I make it fun / spepcial... Very interesting video, but I would still love to hear more guidence on it.
Thanks for watching friend, From my own experience, I'd say avoid too much goad. People really don't seem to enjoy it. One can have some goad effects, but if people feel like they're locked out of attacking you all game, it's almost like stax. I think the group hug concept is far more interesting. Giving people a choice of getting resources knowing that they may regret it later is lots of fun. I really like the look of the alternative commander from the new rakdos precon in duskmourn.
I really dont like this "appeal to nature" argument that people make about the commander format, as if because it was "created with goal to be relaxed, fun, and a break from competitive magic", that indeed that is how it SHOULD be played. I also think that you present "playing to win" and "playing for fun" as far more dichotomous than they really are. I agree that better deckbuilding can remedy many of the scenarios. to your point of introducing chaos somewhat increasing fun, I find that when i step back and let myself take a line of play without analyzing all of the possible outcomes, and instead doing something because its "probably at least kinda good" and "pretty funny", it leads to more enjoyable games. Good video but I do take issue with some of your points.
Thanks for watching friend, and for the thoughts Ironically, I agree with the sentiment of most of what you've said, and feel I was making similar points
I think this video was an interesting point of thought, but im curious. I built your Melek deck as a budget deck to bring to a lower power table, that said how do you play a permission style deck like melek and have it be fun for the whole table since most of the deck is counters and card draw? I won my first deck with it and could tell my oppenents werent having the most amazing time, id like your advice
Opinion of a stanger on the internet, play more single target than whipe, play more on board removal than counter magic, people like resolving spells. When you remove a creature, you can choose when to, so it can attack someone else, do it's ETB or what ever. Playing control and having fun is responding to someone targeting you, not responding to all the thing all the time.
This may be differences in how we play it, but I tend to only use the counters for protecting Melek, or stopping someone from imminently winning the game. Because Melek MUST stay on the board for the deck to function, and that priority outweighs countering 95% of my opponents stuff. I find Melek dissuades most people from attacking, so people attacking isn't too much of a concern, so I can let people have their fun and just pressure them with a giant commander via combat damage, which most people don't mind. That's probably the biggest change I'd make in approach to playing him. Hope this helps
@@BasedDeckDept jammed some more games today and it went a lot better, Melek is a blast, as someone who is used to being archenemy it was really cool to sit back and see everyone do their thing not at me, turns out having 5 blue mana up at any given time scares people from even thinking about messing with you, thanks for the budget deck, im excited to see what else you cook up
This is either a misunderstanding or a disagreement with your last point. The worst player to have across the table is the one not trying to win. Peak commander is 4 decks of similar power level all trying to win.
I should clarify, I don't mean not trying to win at all, but rather being willing to make inefficient, sub-optimal or silly plays, in the service of fun for others or the table. Everyone should try to win the game as the primary goal (whilst not being overly attached to it) but should equally try to maximize fun rather than prioritizing winning and being ruthless, cutthroat and cold in an effort to win.
Appreciate you watching. You may enjoy my video on how to win more instead Bear in mind these are my opinions, and you're not playing with me. Commander is whatever your pod or play group wants it to be, so no need to point out that you're free to do what you're already free to do
Board whipe do nothing if they aren't affecting opponent disproportionnaly more than you. Equaly sided boardwhipe are just a waste of everyone time, 99p.100 sure the board will develop to the same state in around 20 mins of wasted time.
Being as charitable as possible it seems like you're advocating for meta interaction as in "not just playing your cards but talking to each other as well" while speaking against game interaction with boardwipes and counters. If you're feeling unhappy and frustrated about this game I don't think you'll find solution in just being stomped by the fastest decks at the table, although you may feel like games will finish faster for sure. My suggestion is: play interaction but keep it as long as possible, play boardwipes that favor you whenever you can, don't shy away from control and combo and maybe try new house rules. I, for example, I'm experimenting with a point system instead of 40 life.
Appreciate you watching, and the thoughts It's worth flagging that these are some view points I have, compared to my recent video about how to win more, for example. I've also done a deck tech on a $100 Stella Lee combo deck on this channel. I personally have very little issue with interaction, board wipes and counters, which should be evidenced by calling out ways to deal with things like Voja, and recommending two types of boardwipes, but that doesn't change the fact that many people are bringing a competitive spirit to a social game.
If people want to have fun and a legitimate sense of accomplishment from a win, get everyone to agree not to play infinite combo. Too many games of commander are just smug people that think they are smart for hiding in a commander pod pretending they are not the threat as they bide their time to get each combo price to then kill all opponents simultaneously. The combo players are the biggest threat to victory and fun. Combo players that want to impress should try doing it one versus one, not when hiding in a pod of multiple opponents and starting with forty lfe.
When I play I let the table choose what kind of deck I'm going to use. I have powerful and fun, powerful and not fun, not powerful but salty, and a fun deck that makes big plays that is not exactly powerful. Most of the time I like to play with my Ghalta primal hunger deck, which can do some real silly stuff, can do some infinite stuff, and can play really differently depending upon the table and feel of the game. The infinites are like half a dozen or so cards to form, so they're easy to interrupt and hard to set up, but that's the point.
@@BasedDeckDept honestly my main deck is Galea Kindler of Hope, the deck is absolutely epic, but it's worth $1800 without having any reserved list cards, so the power level is absolutely up there. As nice as that deck is, it's never even played in a game. Most of the time I'm either running Ghalta or by request of the table I have played a few games with my Avacyn Angel of Hope deck, but it's very controlling and anticlimactic so it's not the first deck I reach for. I used to have more decks, but as soon as they win more than a couple games at a high powered table I'm ready to take them apart
@@monomanamaniac Galea looks great. First time I've come across her. Unasked for advice, but I'd strongly recommend giving budget deck building a go if you've not already. I make a point about this in my recent video about making more friends in commander. It allows you to get all the kicks of crafting efficient, powerful and fun decks, but the price limit, be that say $50 or $100 forces you to make interesting card choices, and naturally caps the power so you get 80% of what you would with a $1000 deck, with almost no drawbacks.
@@BasedDeckDept Galea is amazing, but a lot of the cards that really make it great are like land tax, scroll rack, sensei's divining top, and a whole pile of nonsense. I'm ok with it being something to show off and not actually use, it's like a statement just waiting to be made. Most of my other decks are fairly budget, generally around $300 or so, but I buy new cards so rarely that a lot of the cards I got for .50-$1 are worth 10x that much and replacing those with budget options is effectively not an option for me lol. I also have more decks, I just generally don't bring them with me. I love building fun synergy decks like ezuri claw of progress, Jhoira weatherlight captain, and Kyler sigardian emissary. I also don't get out and play much either
Everytime i see content like this it's always just blaming others for their personal inabilty to make their own fun. It's not control's fault. it's not staxs fault, it's not cedh fault. It's the fault of you expecting others to meet your expectations.
this, I dont like the idea that fun has to mean not playing certain deck archetypes unless everyone is playing at a high enough level. I get it if youre bringing a heavy control deck to a table of out the box precons but outside of obvious scenarios like this I think its even less fun for people to pigeonhole what play styles are acceptable for a casual game
"it's not control's fault" Who thinks that it's fun sitting down for 3 hours stacking life until you reach 100, and keeping up a board (counterspell any board wipe or make your stuff indestructible until end of turn etc) that keeps getting more and more gigantic while no one can neither damage you nor affect your board until you can just tap everything to annihilate whichever unfortunate opponent has still clinged on to the lategame? I'm not saying everyone has to play ultra-aggro red decks, but at the very least a reliance on gaining life should be at the expense of opening up to taking more dmg, instead of gaining life+gaining board+denying plays+everything. I just hate playing against the Sam&Frodo pre-con, one of the most glaring examples of this.
Thanks for watching and your thoughts I'd recommend my recent video on making more friends in EDH. I think it could give more context on my views in this video. While I agree with the sentiment that being able to find our own fun is critical, and that expectations can harm that, likewise, having the expectation that we can do anything we want, without care for how it affects others isn't the best mindset in a social format. If I'm committing 2 hours of my time to have a social experience and that's not what I get, don't be surprised if I choose to look for that social experience with other people.
shots fired I'll clarify that I recently made a video about how to win more, so this is one of my many viewpoints on commander. Anything goes as long as the pod or playgroup is aligned, be that bunnies or eldrazi crimes.
I appreciate you watching and commenting Worth calling out I have recent videos on how to win more, and I possess an Eldrazi deck. The thoughts in this video aren't representative of my entire viewpoint on the game. Anything goes as long as a pod is aligned about the experience they want to have. We regularly play "good time not long time" games, where anything goes, but we've signed up for that, whether it's getting domed for 24 in a turn on turn 5 by Ojer Axonil, or someone comboing out with Stella Lee at a similar point in the game. And a point on fogs... They are one of the best mechanics in commander, but Constant Mists is a crime, especially because people that play it usually run land recursion.
That's ok, as long as the playgroup is aligned with what kind of experience they want. If everyone is committing major crimes, and is ok with you being the law enforcement...
Totally agree on the "get your competitive fix somewhere else" I usually recommend people proxy and play cedh so that they can get the feeling of competition and playing strong cards in a format made for it rather than jamming rhystic studies in every casual deck
Glad it resonated friend
Board wipes are equalizers, punishing players who have fast decks or who have overextended, and rewarding players who are having a slower start.
Just like some stax pieces that are equalizers, that punish some players and the others get rewarded. Think of rest in piece, null rod, blood moon... So I shouldn't play them or what's the point?!
@@patrickdernacktaffe2296 I think the point is that boardwipes always help people that have been lagging behind, since they naturally have less things to lose and some cards in hands. Stax might help the deck already winning more than other decks, and make their lead worse.
There's a difference between playing a board wipe and playing board wipe tribal
I think he specifically compared raise the palisade to farewell is that a one sided board clear doesnt slow the game down as much. If peope are completely clearing the biard every couple turns the game can drag on and get boring
While this is partly correct, and again, I'm not saying don't run board wipes at all, this phrase sounds like it comes from an early frog, where I played lots of standard and my main decks were Psychatog or UW control. Boardwipes is a whole video in itself, but I don't think it's that black and white at all, and the problem is that there's 2/4 players that are going to get caught in the crossfire at least half the time.
The "Get your competitive needs elswhere" needs to be printed in gold on every Precons Decks and I'm not joking
Time to politely ask Gavin to make that a thing... Frog army rise up
Commander as a "place where we want to make cool pieces of cardboard kiss" is my new elevator pitch for the format
Your point on having multiple different decks that do different things at varying levels is so important, especially as veteran deckbuilders; we almost have a responsibility to have lower powered decks to play with friends who are new to the game and have a good time, but also have higher powered decks for a quick, brutal time. Great video as always BDD!
Your take on board wipes seems wild to me. I usually see board wipes played as a "thank god!" moment, stopping a player who was growing out of control. What you called "generic" board wipes I usually hear called "fair" since you have to give up your own stuff to make the play while one sided board wipes are most often used to snowball someone even further ahead.
Yeah, it's definitely more nuanced than board wipes are bad, but his criticisms are valid. Board wipes can be used to great effect that is enjoyable for the table or they can be used to drag a game on further than people would like. I don't think people should move away from board wipes, but instead play ones that allow the game to progress such as 'Promise of Loyalty', or at the very least consider how the board wipe will effect the game before casting it.
@@euanh but then i completely dont understand the vendetta against Farewell. Farewell totally has to ability to be an asymmetric wipe, clearing all artifacts/enchants or enchants/creatures, leaving the core type of your deck on the battlefield. If all players are choosing to use Farewell as a hard reset on all modes every time then that fault is on them, not the card imo.
@@euanh For sure. If everyone is looking tired and ready to be done, I will just choose not to cast the board wipe in my hand, that doesn't mean you shouldn't include them in your decks. Like he said in another point just make the plays that result in the most fun.
You could even ask the table for permission to discard the board wipe and draw a new card that hopefully moves you closer to ending the game.
@@jackveith2416 I agree, 'Farewell' can be used to progress the game forwards by selectively choosing the modes that best advantage yourself allowing you to pull ahead. However, many use farewell as a reset of board state, and unless you have a demanding lead on lands and cards in hand, you will not be progressing that game forward.
Although a card cannot be to blame for how a player chooses to use it, the card is still responsible for allowing such as state to happen so easily. 'Farewell' could have been limited to 2 modes, which would alleviate some of the hatred.
Get your competitive fix somewhere else. You don't have to stop those people that get out of control. Just let them win and play another game. Casual commander is four players playing solitair
Man what a refreshing take on removal and controll decks in general. kind of annoying that most youtuber advice is just ADD MORE REMOVAL without the discussion what that does to the format where you want to do something fun with your commander.
Glad you enjoyed it ❤️ there's a time and place for everything including control, but I definitely see too many arguments for it that are inherently in the service of winning. Thanks for watching !
@@BasedDeckDeptI think a lot of it is well meaning advice for people upset over losing. Which really shouldn’t be a thing in a casual setting. So I’m torn because I like high power casual _and_ I think better advice for that group would be “care less about losing.”
@@AgentMurphy286 I think the gist here is not caring about winning is the key. But the trick is finding people that want the same experience as you.
In a world of content creators supporting plays that win in a turn or two and 'Oops, all removal', one man stands to advocate interesting and interactive, dare I say "Fun", games.
If you’re worried about creatures spiraling out of control, play a couple fog effects in place of those extra board wipes. Fogs can make a friend and rarely make an enemy. Still keep a wipe or two, but use it only after the creature player has shot their shot or you have an opportunity to make the wipe one sided.
Based
i really love your videos so much because they broaden my horizen more than any videocreator else, because your takes are just so wildy different to my perspective or how my pod works. really appreciate it!
Thank you friend, for watching and the thoughts. Glad you enjoy my thoughts
I love the sentiment of throwing caution into the wind for the sake of making memorable plays. One time I used enchantment exile removal on my own indestructible god just cause one person at the table (not even the person I was originally targetting) pointed out I could exile my own thassa if I wanted to, and so I did. I don't remember anything else from that game, but I'll never forget that moment
My point exactly! You should watch my other recent videos (about making friends, and building decks). I think they would resonate
@@BasedDeckDept haha yep I found your channel recently, and have actually already watched the last couple videos too, but I think this one resonated the most with me so far. I agree with a lot of your philosophies, though, and I'm excited to see where you take your channel as you start getting more attention!
You certainly live up to the channel name. It was refreshing to hear so many bases takes in a row!
My Sheldon the Commander deck is made for this, I have a blast playing chaos that literally gives people their spells for free, braids, wild invocation, and twists like hive mind, possibility storm. The most fun I have is when I accidentally someone into their winning pieces, forcing someone to teferi's protection on their upkeep.
Absolutely great takes again. Magic is all about the vibes. And proxies. Always proxies.
We love seeing frog gang return (and proxies)
@@BasedDeckDeptI saw frogs in bloomburrow that could be made into an antimill typal frog deck. I have a friend that has two mill focused decks. So, he and I had fun testing the deck with proxies 😂
This video had me cracking up! Super great advice presented in a very engaging way.
Your videos keep matching my thoughts - curate experience, cultivate fun, and make memories! While listening to this one I was compiling artifact lists for Oswald Fiddlebender and Arcum Dagsson, and it hit me: Lantern Control............Group Hug ?! Build around the lantern control shell and help curate game experience/flow via give and take deck manipulation rather than strictly ruining players' draws. Oswald can have that online pretty rapidly. Arcum probably has the higher ceiling + being blue.
"Yes, you can have that Protean Hulk, but you know I just drew Teferi's Protection. Plan accordingly."
"I know what so-and-so is about to do with that card. If you don't attack/kill me right now, I'll make them mill it."
"I'll activate this Pyxis and put it all into play to get us back up and running after that boardwipe."
"Don't worry, this Static Orb is temporary - keeping us alive from the archenemy until so-and-so draws that answer." I *think* stax pieces can be fun used this way. I'm willing to try.
Finally a clear home for a card I think is heavily underused in general: Glasses of Urza. See what people have/need, and yap respectfully/responsibly lol. The ultimate game of information. New rabbit hole to dive down!
I'm interested to know how this goes 🤜🤛
I appreciate the recommendations for BJJ! I feel like there are some great shared lessons there. For example, you want to be a training partner people want to train with. When you're better than someone, don't go 100% and smash them every time, give them a chance to transition through some positions and maybe let them attempt a sweep or submission before you take back the initiative. When you're worse than someone, lose with grace instead of getting upset and try to learn something from them. I think everybody should give BJJ a try, it's awesome. Great competitive outlet that will get you in shape and teach so many life lessons.
I've been struggling with my brewing burn out, so I always appreciate new MTG content to help me think about what I can do better/make the gameplay more fun
Glad I could help My video about building decks that are fun to lose to may add some inspiration. When I have brewing burn out, I either go build a budget deck like some of those I've done videos on, or if all else fails just take a break
Yeah this is honestly super true for newer players building their first few decks. Its also (like always) very important to communicate with who ur playing with. I basically have 3 types of commander settings
1: the low-mid power which u describe where i play fun decks without crazy cards like sol ring
2:high power where we get that competitiveness out with faster games usually
3: Cedh where sometimes it can be fun to have a crazy counterspell war on turn 2 where i still lose the game.
Its all about the other 3 people being on the same page. Bringing a cedh deck to high power isnt fun just how bringing low power to cedh isnt fun. You really need to know what kind of game the table is expecting
Thanks for watching, and the input A lot of what you've said (alignment, communication, etc) I covered in my last video about how to make more friends in EDH. You'd likely agree with most of that, and enjoy the video
The second commander I built was a group-hug/chaos deck back in 2013 with Karona. I quickly realized how unfun most of chaos cards are and I've been fine-tuning the chaos pieces since then. Today Kenrith is the face of the deck, and it's really fun to play with/against (or so I've heard)!
Thanks for watching It sounds like you've finished the journey many have yet to properly start. Curious about your Kenrith deck, as I'm busy converting my 3 colour omage to Sheldon's "you did this to yourself, to a 5 colour shell".
Love your videos, they're totally changed how I see and play Magic, Warhamer 40k and other board games!
Thanks for watching friend, glad I you find my thoughts interesting
Every pod must have gruul. The growling frothing guy in the corner of the table who takes no quarter from anyone. I really like yarus, roar of the old gods. Swing swing swing draw draw draw. I don't care if you hit me back, 40's a lot of life.
I agree with some points but one I definitely don't agree with is the "don't play to win" all decks in my opinion should want to win because having your 3 opponents trying to beat you and each other is what creates more dynamic tension at the table, if you can have a chance to win and pass it up that's fine but a deck should want and be able to win if it's necessary to close out a 3h game because being in a game for that long sometimes it's better to give up and go for a game at another table.
Thanks for watching ❤️ id clarify I'm not saying never to win, or to build decks or play in ways that permanently stalls the game, but as someone who played many, many years of formats where you simply don't make inefficient plays, being willing to is a good thing. I have an entire video about winning more in commander that I made recently, so I'm definitely anti winning. I just think most people are too pro winning, and could do with being silly once in a while.
I think it is important that winning isn't the highest priority, but that you still try to win the game you're in. If winning is the highest priority, you will make deck building decisions to screw over the people you typically play against and just gravitate towards cEDH. You can play cEDH and I encourage those wanting to prioritize winning in commander to go there. I see the point being made in the video in line with this and not a "don't ever try to win" video. Because that just leads to mass chaos lol
btw another great video! it's awesome and feels so welldeserved for you, watching your channel explode with interaction!
Thank you friend thanks for watching
Love your videos mate
thanks friend, glad they resonate. Thanks for watching!
My Group Hug deck wincon is being second place!
There was once I won with the deck. It was only because the other person killed them self...
Also my Dino Fight club also has Sorrow's Path
I am also making different types of Dino Tribal. So even though it is Dino Tribal! Each one plays completely different
This is how I ended up just brewing budget decks, the amount of fun is not proportional to the price of the deck most of the time.
My two (maybe three?) favorite board wipes in commander are:
1. Breaking Point. I run this in my Ceaser deck. My goal is to play as Ceaser with heavy politics and punish anyone who doesn’t join the legion. People laugh at the idea of paying six up until everyone has 12 hp. It gets better the longer the game goes most of the time and gives other players interaction with it.
2. Devastating Mastery. I run this in my Lavinia deck where I roleplay as the police. My stax pieces are my laws that people need to follow. Rule breakers get punished. This lets me punish the board but protect law abiding citizens.
3. Bar Room Brawl. I run this in my Gluntch deck and it’s so much fun. It’s a potential board wipe or just about near it but gives each player something to interact with so they make it as big or small as they’d like to.
Farewell is boring. Wrath of god is funny if it’s thematic like in an all clerics deck.
These are such bangers friend. Can't wait to chain of smog brawl someone soon. I want to link this in my playgroups discord, but I want to save the joy of them getting brawled for the first time. I'm starting to look forward to your input in the comments section when I put out a new video
@@BasedDeckDept Oh, thanks. I think your videos are cool and I kind of want to make a few of my own mtg videos. tbh I’ve watched more of your vids than the professor guy’s videos.
Hearing you talking about chaos decks really made me think. Because I’m working on a Zedruu deck and calling it “The Multiverse of Madness” where my goal is to mess up and swap around as much stuff as possible by messing with permanents, giving people weird rules to deal with, and universes beyond cards making appearances from across the multiverse. I want to use Avarice Totem, Future Sight (giving it away), and really wanted to use Scrambleverse as my one “Board Wipe” sitting the chaos theme. A bit worried about people hating scrambleverse too much though, I hear a lot negative about it the more I look into it. I was going to go with warp world at first but that messed with people’s lands which I know most people hate.
@@Jupiterbun-bunJetson We take those And yeah my advice here is that everything is ok in moderation. Got some goad? That's ok. Got only goad, less ok. Got some removal? That's ok. Got only removal? That's a problem. The same can be said for swapping peoples stuff.etc. If you do it once or twice a game, people may actually like it. If no one is ever able to keep their commander in play or have their deck work, they're going to hate it. For me personally, my biggest problem with cards like scrambleverse are the time investment to resolve the spell, and the time it takes to make sure you get all your cards back. The amount of times one ends up losing a card, or getting an extra one is way too high. A fact only made 10 times worse if two people in the pod have identical sleeves. It's also just a but yucky, for the lack of a better word, especially if one's playing with strangers. So my advice is, if you're mostly giving gifts (or traps) I think you're fine. Beyond that, moderation is key.
If you have trouble not trying to win, play a bad deck and try to win. I have a Jon Irenicus deck that's pretty bad, but when I play it, I try to win because if I do, I'm still way worse than the rest of the table.
I definitely agree. Yesterday i was playing with my friends, it was not commander because we had only modified starters, so it's a standard but with 4 players. So the situation was critical for other players when i played One ring to rule them all, which was progressing to the second step, which is a board wipe of all non legendary and i controlled 4 of them. Other players tried it all to stop me. The last one had two big green creatures and two little ones, as his last resource he cast Hazardous Blast (it prevents the target player's creatures from blocking that turn) and he kills me with exactly 15 damage which was my whole life. Sadly i lost but i understood that if i hadn't played the card maybe i could have played more and all could have had more fun. (i play slightly modified Sauron starter) You could say I role played Sauron lol
This sounds like a great game of commander
I see that snail hiding haha, its the MCU of magic! All the hints to other heroes of the magic community!
You're the first person to mention it! Snail's perspectives inspired me to start sharing my own ideas about magic, so I feel it's only fair to pay homage to the mighty snail. One day when we get a Snail comment, I'll have made it
Lovely video, some good points
appreciate you watching friend, glad you enjoyed it.
@@BasedDeckDept Keep them coming! I am new to Magic but these videos inspire me and help me get informed for future plays :)
@@VyralOfficial Glad I can help. Definitely check out some of my other recent videos, you'll probably enjoy them too
Agree a lot with what you say in the video, I would half agree on the boardwipes take I would say as a casual player I encountered 3 types of players:
-the win at all cost player (the less fun that don't care if they win turn 4)
-the very casual that don't run a lot of interactions and just want to see the fun of what their decks can do
-the casual/control player that play for the win but without big wincon turn 4 and infinite broken stuff
To me the fun comes from the players saying in which category they are and picking same vibes decks, I personnally run a few interaction/boardwipes/counter magic but I want to get countered and see a lot of back and forth in the game and never see a clear winner until the very end (around turn 7-14).
What annoys me is when I go to my LGS to play and see a guy saying his deck is a "7 ou of 10" (which means nothing) and turn 5-6 proceed to make a 15 min turn with storm interactions.
I would say the fun comes from a hard winned game where the players played for the win but without well known broken cards or with old cards that nobody knows and dont see play anywhere else.
Thanks for watching I agree with a lot of this. I think the key thing is alignment and communication, which I spoke about a bunch in my other recent video about making more friends in commander. Those "my decks about a 7" types that create negative play patterns aka making everyone fall asleep while the stumble to a maybe win, should get one chance in any community to prove they're not that type of person. If they fail, I at least won't play with them again. Life's too short
The last point about not playing to win every game is extremely salient. I wish more people would get that.
A couple weeks ago at my college TCG club I was about to kill all 4 other players in a pod of 5, after dropping Jetmir onto a wide board in my Baylen, the Haymaker deck. I got Aetherized and the whole table got to swing in at me to knock me out before my next turn. It was fantastic
Live by the gun, die by the gun Sounds like a banger of a game
Dang i would love to see your take on my fav commander! Are you doing deck req?
Sure, can't promise when I'll get to it, but very keen to hear which commander you want me to look at
@@BasedDeckDept Gandalf of the secret Fire, he suspends card with 3 counters (super cool as it is a refernce to the movie :D ) i did 4 versions of him but i cannot hit the right spot.
As always, great channel and thx for the videos!
@@Andrea-jg3sh Ohhhh that's an interesting one. I had him in my Aragorn, The Uniter spellslinger deck for a while. I took him out because he was slow and didn't achieve much, so that may just be the core problem right there. But I will ponder
@@BasedDeckDept I tried the standard spellsing with guttersnipe ecc.. (boring), token actually pretty strong but doesn't feel thematic (boring) and my latest version an hybrid with enchant + inst/sorc wich is strong but not really happy with the mix.
Trying to lean to a bit of control with fast spells + ways to remove time counter and rituals to pump mana for a BIG hitter🤣
@@Andrea-jg3sh Yeah time counter manipulation would almost be a must... I don't like Storm in commander, but there's something about the idea of fun control cards, then you manage the time counters to set up a bunch of spells for a big storm turn... because... a wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to
Disagaree. Classic control and stax doesnt have to be limited to competitive playgroup. It leads to fun decision making where you try to bait out their removal/counterspells and more carefully apply your resources in a way that can be very enjoyable to play against if you give it a chance.
Appreciate you watching and the input. If your pod/playgroup agrees with you, then that's all that matters. Alignment is the most important. Fun decision making is subjective and what matters is whether the 3 people who are the one's having to make those decisions, thinks they are indeed fun. Fwiw I have many decks I have no issue playing into control and stax, and I have decks that have those elements, so I'm not against them en masse. My recent video talking about playgroup dynamics (make more friends in edh) goes into more detail.
The point about new players in the last part applies to me, I'm just 2 months in to playing mtg mostly pauper and recently commander,
I ended up building a $100 Stella Lee deck (had inspiration from your stella video).
My playgroup plays mostly on the $100 limit as of now and consists of Winota, Yuriko, Ghyrson, Ghalta, Krenko and Phelia as commanders.
Did I end up building a not so fun deck compared to my playgroup? because my stella lee deck only wants to win as fast as possible.
Also, which fun commanders do you recommend for me to try as a new player that has only played the izzet colors? and i only have a few collection of cards so far, and most of them are in izzet.
Thank you!
PSA: If you go all laser eyes in BJJ, you will also find ourself alone. Be a good training partner!
Probably safer to do it in tennis...
Great video
Unlike in real life, tax effects are very cool actually.
Said the tax man... 😂😂
awesome video!
Thanks friend Appreciate you watching
I’m super new to commander and on my very first game a guy brought out a 10/10 an 8/8 and had a card that made there damage equal to the number of lands or some other counter he ended up having like 46 damage with all his creatures attacking was not very fun and I think a board wipe might have been the best counter although I don’t believe I have a “board wipe” card 😢
Haha, magic can be like that at the start. You should watch some of my other recent videos, I think they'll set you up for enjoying your time spent on commander. At the start, it's finding people you enjoy playing with, and decks that you enjoy playing, regardless of who wins or loses
Im a new magic player. I find that the decks i find fun encite anger in other players because everyone wants no interactions between decks (removal, stax, counters, or even token spam for some reason). So the game is reduced to mono green beatdown, and if you play anything else, it's "not fair". Kinda of a turn off but i think people should play any and all cards they like consequences be damned.
I don't envy new players in commander, as the social written and unwritten rules are so complicated, and they differ per person. It sounds to me like you're playing with people that want a different experience, and you'll be happier if you find people with a similar viewpoint as yours. Believe me they're out there. Also watch my video on making more friends in EDH, I think it may help
@BasedDeckDept I will, thanks!
I agree with this but don't love how its worded, but yeah, create fun and encourage more games of variety, decision making and engagement, rather than staxy boardwipe reset grindfests,. completely agree 😊
Thanks for watching, and your thoughts I agree with your sentiment. How would you have worded things differently?
@BasedDeckDept oh God I don't know exactly just after watching lol that's script writing, whole different skillset. I'll mull it over, might get back to you if I remember
@@EnordAreven Yeah it's a challenge I am very open to input, hence the question, so by all means lmk if you figure it out
I wish I could tell my usual pod about this without coming across as extremely passive aggressive lol
"Hey guys, watch this guide on how to have more fun .. you guys need to see this for .. uhh, a reason unrelated to how you usually play .."
Most of the people either play anti-fun decks or the hardiest control that draw games out for ages upon ages. Recently I have found myself only building aggro decks, and I realised it's because I must try to counter the boring drawn out meta that usually ensues.
For instance I have made an "anti-gainlife" deck that's all about eviscerating everyone's life total and keeping it from just rising nonstop. My reward? Getting targeted with every removal from everyone, and usually ending up dying first of everyone. Not because I have the strongest board or anything, but simply because I have the cane in the wheel to what they are trying to do (even when someone else has cards out that are actively winning them the game...).
In any case it cuts the games down from 2,5-3 hours to 1-1,5 hour, so I suppose mission accomplished? It's just a pity it's at the expense of my own enjoyment quite often - when your commander gets swords-to-plowshares or similarly removed for the 3rd time in the game while there are bigger problems on board it's increasingly dull.
(For the curious - the deck in question is a rakdos (black-red) deck built around punishing control and lifegain. The commander is Lord of Pain, which actively deals damage to all opponents, and has the passive ability 'Opponents can't gain life'. I also have 2 more cards with the effect that opponents, or players as a whole, can't gain life, and especially life-decimators such as Master of Cruelties along with combo cards that grant creatures haste, and some cards that make 1 creature unblockable until the end of the turn...)
Haha, you should watch my recent video about making more friends in commander... There's a point in there about sharing content with your playgroup in the hopes they take something from it.. For what it's worth, part of the reason my play group is great, is because of just sharing content we find interesting or helpful. Creators like Snail are shared regularly because it simply broadens the horizons of peoples view points, rather than aiming to call people out. If they feel called out though, that's probably for good reason Thanks for watching, and hope you manage to convince your play group to be a bit more flexible in their approach to the game.
@@BasedDeckDept Well, I found the solution of simply getting a 2nd playgroup, one that (at least for now) plays a bit more balanced, sometimes even aggro. :)
I can play slow games with the first one that prefers that, and more random or aggro stuff with the second one, and everyone is happy for the most part!
@@gronizherz3603 The best of both worlds
I tend to have the exact opposite opinion as you (and probably most people) on stax in casual commander. Stax is my favorite archetype of deck (to play with or against). My favorite games I have ever played have were the result of multiple stax decks creating a labyrinth of a board state, where no one can do the thing they planned on doing. All of my least favorite games have been when some generic mid-range value pile 'does its thing' and just runs the table over with a tsunami of ramp, draw, and bombs.
Appreciate the input man🤜🤛 Worth mentioning I don't personally hate stax. I just play with or against stax on the right terms, with the right people, and with the right decks.
@@BasedDeckDept I agree that stax and control in general can be unfun if the other people at the table are unprepared for that kind of game. If I rolled up to my LGS with my smokestack deck and played it against a pod of precons, no one would have fun in that game.
It is something I am struggling with. I wanted to make rakdos/black group-hug, to be that evil friend giving stuff, for a price... with no real plan to win... Or make Thantis/Some_other_Goad commander, but I still dont know how to make it fun - since I would make ppl attack, but how do I make it fun / spepcial...
Very interesting video, but I would still love to hear more guidence on it.
Thanks for watching friend, From my own experience, I'd say avoid too much goad. People really don't seem to enjoy it. One can have some goad effects, but if people feel like they're locked out of attacking you all game, it's almost like stax. I think the group hug concept is far more interesting. Giving people a choice of getting resources knowing that they may regret it later is lots of fun. I really like the look of the alternative commander from the new rakdos precon in duskmourn.
I really dont like this "appeal to nature" argument that people make about the commander format, as if because it was "created with goal to be relaxed, fun, and a break from competitive magic", that indeed that is how it SHOULD be played. I also think that you present "playing to win" and "playing for fun" as far more dichotomous than they really are. I agree that better deckbuilding can remedy many of the scenarios. to your point of introducing chaos somewhat increasing fun, I find that when i step back and let myself take a line of play without analyzing all of the possible outcomes, and instead doing something because its "probably at least kinda good" and "pretty funny", it leads to more enjoyable games. Good video but I do take issue with some of your points.
Thanks for watching friend, and for the thoughts Ironically, I agree with the sentiment of most of what you've said, and feel I was making similar points
Subbed 👍
I think this video was an interesting point of thought, but im curious. I built your Melek deck as a budget deck to bring to a lower power table, that said how do you play a permission style deck like melek and have it be fun for the whole table since most of the deck is counters and card draw? I won my first deck with it and could tell my oppenents werent having the most amazing time, id like your advice
Opinion of a stanger on the internet, play more single target than whipe, play more on board removal than counter magic, people like resolving spells. When you remove a creature, you can choose when to, so it can attack someone else, do it's ETB or what ever. Playing control and having fun is responding to someone targeting you, not responding to all the thing all the time.
@@vincent-antoinesoucy1872 i appreciate the input, i really like the last point in particular, i’ll keep it in mind
This may be differences in how we play it, but I tend to only use the counters for protecting Melek, or stopping someone from imminently winning the game. Because Melek MUST stay on the board for the deck to function, and that priority outweighs countering 95% of my opponents stuff. I find Melek dissuades most people from attacking, so people attacking isn't too much of a concern, so I can let people have their fun and just pressure them with a giant commander via combat damage, which most people don't mind. That's probably the biggest change I'd make in approach to playing him. Hope this helps
@@vincent-antoinesoucy1872 Fantastic final point friend I'd be happy if it was one of mine
@@BasedDeckDept jammed some more games today and it went a lot better, Melek is a blast, as someone who is used to being archenemy it was really cool to sit back and see everyone do their thing not at me, turns out having 5 blue mana up at any given time scares people from even thinking about messing with you, thanks for the budget deck, im excited to see what else you cook up
This is either a misunderstanding or a disagreement with your last point. The worst player to have across the table is the one not trying to win. Peak commander is 4 decks of similar power level all trying to win.
I should clarify, I don't mean not trying to win at all, but rather being willing to make inefficient, sub-optimal or silly plays, in the service of fun for others or the table. Everyone should try to win the game as the primary goal (whilst not being overly attached to it) but should equally try to maximize fun rather than prioritizing winning and being ruthless, cutthroat and cold in an effort to win.
Different people enjoy different things in different ways, not a hard concept to grasp. Let people play how they want.
As long as you're aligned with your pod / playgroup, you're 100% correct.
8:43 I feel called out, OSS
Thanks for the upload!
May your channel prosper and grow
God Bless
Thank you for watching!
I play precons due to time and budget. It's annoying to go against a solitaire player
im getting so romantic with the sub and like button
Or maybe some peoples play groups like to play competitively. I don't need to "get it out somewhere else" if that's how we all like to play
Appreciate you watching. You may enjoy my video on how to win more instead Bear in mind these are my opinions, and you're not playing with me. Commander is whatever your pod or play group wants it to be, so no need to point out that you're free to do what you're already free to do
I feel like I'm being told to play swerve.
Board whipe do nothing if they aren't affecting opponent disproportionnaly more than you. Equaly sided boardwhipe are just a waste of everyone time, 99p.100 sure the board will develop to the same state in around 20 mins of wasted time.
Being as charitable as possible it seems like you're advocating for meta interaction as in "not just playing your cards but talking to each other as well" while speaking against game interaction with boardwipes and counters. If you're feeling unhappy and frustrated about this game I don't think you'll find solution in just being stomped by the fastest decks at the table, although you may feel like games will finish faster for sure.
My suggestion is: play interaction but keep it as long as possible, play boardwipes that favor you whenever you can, don't shy away from control and combo and maybe try new house rules. I, for example, I'm experimenting with a point system instead of 40 life.
Appreciate you watching, and the thoughts It's worth flagging that these are some view points I have, compared to my recent video about how to win more, for example. I've also done a deck tech on a $100 Stella Lee combo deck on this channel. I personally have very little issue with interaction, board wipes and counters, which should be evidenced by calling out ways to deal with things like Voja, and recommending two types of boardwipes, but that doesn't change the fact that many people are bringing a competitive spirit to a social game.
As a magic enjoyer, and a bjj practitioner I agree with the statement, but am also very disappointed with that fucking aikido drawing bruh 💀💀
Haha it's the closest thing I had to BJJ ok. I knew it wasn't perfect 😂 thanks for watching 🤜🤛
If people want to have fun and a legitimate sense of accomplishment from a win, get everyone to agree not to play infinite combo. Too many games of commander are just smug people that think they are smart for hiding in a commander pod pretending they are not the threat as they bide their time to get each combo price to then kill all opponents simultaneously. The combo players are the biggest threat to victory and fun. Combo players that want to impress should try doing it one versus one, not when hiding in a pod of multiple opponents and starting with forty lfe.
When I play I let the table choose what kind of deck I'm going to use. I have powerful and fun, powerful and not fun, not powerful but salty, and a fun deck that makes big plays that is not exactly powerful. Most of the time I like to play with my Ghalta primal hunger deck, which can do some real silly stuff, can do some infinite stuff, and can play really differently depending upon the table and feel of the game. The infinites are like half a dozen or so cards to form, so they're easy to interrupt and hard to set up, but that's the point.
Very much this. Sounds like you'd go well in my play group friend. Thanks for your thoughts, and for watching
@@BasedDeckDept honestly my main deck is Galea Kindler of Hope, the deck is absolutely epic, but it's worth $1800 without having any reserved list cards, so the power level is absolutely up there. As nice as that deck is, it's never even played in a game. Most of the time I'm either running Ghalta or by request of the table I have played a few games with my Avacyn Angel of Hope deck, but it's very controlling and anticlimactic so it's not the first deck I reach for. I used to have more decks, but as soon as they win more than a couple games at a high powered table I'm ready to take them apart
@@monomanamaniac Galea looks great. First time I've come across her. Unasked for advice, but I'd strongly recommend giving budget deck building a go if you've not already. I make a point about this in my recent video about making more friends in commander. It allows you to get all the kicks of crafting efficient, powerful and fun decks, but the price limit, be that say $50 or $100 forces you to make interesting card choices, and naturally caps the power so you get 80% of what you would with a $1000 deck, with almost no drawbacks.
@@BasedDeckDept Galea is amazing, but a lot of the cards that really make it great are like land tax, scroll rack, sensei's divining top, and a whole pile of nonsense. I'm ok with it being something to show off and not actually use, it's like a statement just waiting to be made. Most of my other decks are fairly budget, generally around $300 or so, but I buy new cards so rarely that a lot of the cards I got for .50-$1 are worth 10x that much and replacing those with budget options is effectively not an option for me lol. I also have more decks, I just generally don't bring them with me. I love building fun synergy decks like ezuri claw of progress, Jhoira weatherlight captain, and Kyler sigardian emissary.
I also don't get out and play much either
first
fun
LFG
So me making this comment is as if we k-k-kissed??!! 😳
👉👈
Everytime i see content like this it's always just blaming others for their personal inabilty to make their own fun. It's not control's fault. it's not staxs fault, it's not cedh fault. It's the fault of you expecting others to meet your expectations.
this, I dont like the idea that fun has to mean not playing certain deck archetypes unless everyone is playing at a high enough level. I get it if youre bringing a heavy control deck to a table of out the box precons but outside of obvious scenarios like this I think its even less fun for people to pigeonhole what play styles are acceptable for a casual game
"it's not control's fault"
Who thinks that it's fun sitting down for 3 hours stacking life until you reach 100, and keeping up a board (counterspell any board wipe or make your stuff indestructible until end of turn etc) that keeps getting more and more gigantic while no one can neither damage you nor affect your board until you can just tap everything to annihilate whichever unfortunate opponent has still clinged on to the lategame?
I'm not saying everyone has to play ultra-aggro red decks, but at the very least a reliance on gaining life should be at the expense of opening up to taking more dmg, instead of gaining life+gaining board+denying plays+everything. I just hate playing against the Sam&Frodo pre-con, one of the most glaring examples of this.
Thanks for watching and your thoughts I'd recommend my recent video on making more friends in EDH. I think it could give more context on my views in this video. While I agree with the sentiment that being able to find our own fun is critical, and that expectations can harm that, likewise, having the expectation that we can do anything we want, without care for how it affects others isn't the best mindset in a social format. If I'm committing 2 hours of my time to have a social experience and that's not what I get, don't be surprised if I choose to look for that social experience with other people.
@@Vrezmo Thanks for watching, and the thoughts. As long as the group is aligned on the experience they want to have, I believe anything goes.
@@gronizherz3603 I have a player in my play group that has a strong kill on sight hatred for prized pig because of those food shenanigans.
damn thats some casual bs ive seen there
shots fired I'll clarify that I recently made a video about how to win more, so this is one of my many viewpoints on commander. Anything goes as long as the pod or playgroup is aligned, be that bunnies or eldrazi crimes.
EDH is a casual format. You're obviously lost.
so just play generic big stuff engines and whomever sets it up first wins? no thanks, stax, board wipes and fogs are not bad for the game
I appreciate you watching and commenting Worth calling out I have recent videos on how to win more, and I possess an Eldrazi deck. The thoughts in this video aren't representative of my entire viewpoint on the game. Anything goes as long as a pod is aligned about the experience they want to have. We regularly play "good time not long time" games, where anything goes, but we've signed up for that, whether it's getting domed for 24 in a turn on turn 5 by Ojer Axonil, or someone comboing out with Stella Lee at a similar point in the game. And a point on fogs... They are one of the best mechanics in commander, but Constant Mists is a crime, especially because people that play it usually run land recursion.
@@BasedDeckDept i get the constant mists slander tbh
I mean, currently most playgroup are like, not jank anymore. Everyone keep doing scary stuffs 🥲
That's ok, as long as the playgroup is aligned with what kind of experience they want. If everyone is committing major crimes, and is ok with you being the law enforcement...
@@BasedDeckDept _proceed to pull out big gun, "progress tyrant"_