My favorite deck is my rocco cabaretti caterer deck with norin the wary as a secret commander, and I think it's because it was one of the only decks (out of 35 or so I've built in my life) that my friends asked me to play because they thought it was cool. I've been chasing that high ever since
I run Rocco, Street Chef! It is an elf tribal deck. I affectionately call it, "An Elven Dining Experience." It revolves around a group hug(kinda) style. It ramps everyone fast, gains everyone life, and puts +1 counters on everything! Sometimes, people fight at dinnertime. I do my best to keep it civil, but I can't control everything, I'm just the Chef!! 😂😂
I'm passing this video around, your philosophy is basically the exact same as mine, I was watching the video yelling "THAT'S WHAT I SAY TOO!!" Good stuff my dude.
@@BasedDeckDeptI was wondering I've been contemplating building a deck very similar to what you described in this video but I'm a bit of a Timmy player and not sure who to have as my commander as well as either a naya, jund, or temur but want to make it so it's not stax but rather just punishing for not playing creatures mostly. Also I prefer blue beings that I tend to be more of a control player but very open-minded as far as not using my main color identity as a player. So any recommendations as far as that and DEFINITELY more on the casual to maybe mildly uncomfortable competitive nature and as an example I like ruric thar but wouldn't mind the ability to counter a few things in a pinch
I play a lot of Apex Legends, a battle royale shooter where similar to Commander, you should statistically be losing most of the time. Most of the very best Apex games I've played have ended in losses, so it prompts the question: What makes a good loss? How can you ensure that a game that ends in defeat was to some degree fun for you? For me, it's interaction (did we get into a few scuffles along the way?), it's having options (did we have multiple chances to fight, flee, or reposition?), and did we stick it out to the end (where choices feel more consequential, with heightened stakes?). Oh, and of course, did we communicate as a team? Games where we fought, retreated, got to the final five squads, and communicated well...are pretty much *guaranteed* to be a good time. I think all of those apply to Commander and good deck building. Taking game actions in response to others' game actions, using flexible/modal spells creatively rather than having other players' swingy actions always dictate game flow. Having a *resilient* deck that'll help you get to the final showdown, rather than glass cannoning yourself to last place. And finally, avoiding those solitaire/battlecruiser games that essentially ignore the fact that you're playing with real human beings.
This was a great video - and it came just at the right time, as I was locking in my first (honestly pretty boring) Selesnya +1/+1 Counters deck. I'm gonna take another major pass at it with your ideas in mind!
@@gpwaltz Great thoughts friend 🤜🤛 And good luck with the +1/+1 build. At it's core, boring is how I see a counters deck as well, but I'd say some time spent looking for interesting cards on scryfall may help that a lot. In some decks, I love pump effects as they make combat all kinds of fun. Perhaps there's a similar angle with counters. That could be very different
@@gpwaltzFrom my experience people will focus all there removal on you if you play a counter +1/+1 deck unless someone is know in your group to be the best player and brings stronger deck. It’s just such an obvious strategy that everyone understands so you basically can’t pass under the radar
My guy i dont understand how you dont have more subscribers. Your videos are great and super insightful. Keep up the good work and good luck to you as your channel grows
This was an awesome watch, and it really gave me some stuff to think about. I tend to default to EDHRec and sort by synergy. I usually cut it off at 10-15%, but also price does play a factor. Magic isn't my primary hobby, so if I feel like a card is out of my price range (which is usually around the $15+ mark), I don't really go for it unless I'm able to splurge. I've had a few splurge moments, but I also build archetypal decks. My main two right now are Werewolves and Elementals - which I've taken to call Omnath Tribal just because I run a copy of every Omnath printed so far save for the 5 color one that I don't have yet. That's the "story of the deck" for me. Also I try to run as many Day/Night alt arts as possible as my way of "blinging out" my werewolves deck. A lot of what you were saying in this video really struck a cord with me considering how much I couldn't care less about power level as much as price or synergy with the core themes and aspects of my deck, but one thing that I kept thinking about was how much HOW you play can affect WHAT you play. In a few of my more recent games from about a month or so ago, it was brought to my attention that my Werewolves deck had a fairly easy time at surviving board wipes. I would get tokens or cheap creatures out and I'd go from 0 creatures to 5 fairly beefy ones in a matter of a couple of turns. Unfortunately, my threat assessment is garbage. One game came down to me and two other players. One had 9 life and the other had over 50. My impulse said that i could take out the guy with the lowest life and then it's down to two, but the guy with the most life was 1. running a life gain deck and 2. The player with 9 life had an enchantment in play that I had honestly forgotten about that was keeping one creature removed from the game. That creature kept all creatures from attacking the life gain player and my werewolves need to be able to attack. I felt - and still feel - really bad about screwing the pooch on that game even though it was just a casual kitchen table situation. I like being able to prove myself at the gaming table because card games are how I socialize. Throughout this whole video, I couldn't help but think there has to be some kind of assumption here when it comes to skill level or game knowledge. I'm almost positive that if I were handed something that the entire player base would consider an auto-win deck, I'd find a way to target the wrong person, spend mana inefficiently, or outright miss a trigger and the whole thing would fall apart in my hands compared to someone who knew what they were doing. This isn't a defense for infinite combos or anything like that. I'm just curious where "good cards" ends and "good players" begins? How much of the "it's not fun" pie belongs to people who know what they're doing vs people who are just playing the good cards because they are good?
@@AcePlaysTCGs thanks for watching friend, glad it resonated ❤️ You'd probably enjoy my recent videos that explore related topics 🤜🤛 in terms of your question, I would say that I'm a fairly experienced player and when I make content, I'm definitely making it for myself first and foremost, so by default I am assuming a certain level of skill and experience. I would however say the principles are arguably more important for lesser experienced players as they often fall into the traps more easily. I think cards being good is less of an issue, than cards being oppressive or causing bad play experiences. Those kinds of cards can suck even more when they are played badly than when they are played well. Lastly don't take commander too seriously and don't try to hard to appear good or prove yourself. It's fine to make mistakes and do plays that we later think we're very silly. That's how we learn. Commander should first and foremost be about the social aspect and whether or not people at the table had a good time. A lot of that's down to play group and communication, but that's a whole topic in itself 😁
@@BasedDeckDept Thank you so much for the response. I really appreciate it and I will definitely check out some of your recent videos. I really enjoyed this one and I'd love to engage with more of your content especially if it dives deeper on these topics. I'm definitely a big fan of having fun at the gaming table. In my questioning I was definitely thinking of a particular group, so that may have influenced my line of thinking. Really looking forward to getting deeper perspectives through some of your other videos.
I'm on all your points. Took me years to arrive at those conclusions but I'm 100% behind that (except maybe the Sol Ring situation, that I believe, is a deeper problem) Only thing I'd add : "Remember who you play with, and try to build accordingly" Making decks to play with a specific, catered pod and building for playing with strangers at an LGS is 2 very different things. One allows you to discuss more freely from one game night 'til the next about power level, what every one wishes for, etc. The other bring people with varied opinions on the matter, play with them once, and maybe never see them again. When you only have the "strangers" situation, try to be prepared : - Take multiple decks with varied power level. Having 1 Precon, 1 Casual "Pet" deck and 1 Strong deck should cover all your needs. You only have 1 deck ? Bring cards to swap in so that every situation is met with possible answers ! (AND PROXY THOSE, NO ONE CARES !) - Never hesitate to not accept a game when you feel like they don't match your style. No game is better than a bad game. They're all going cEDH and you only have an updated precon ? Wait for another group, don't waste time and effort for a bad experience.
Based points all round. Joey from EDHRec has made some great content about walking away from games, at the start, or during the game and I'm here for his sentiments about it 🔥And couldn't agree more re LGS vs friends. I play in very few LGS situations for that reason, but your point is very valid. annnnnnnd as for Sol Ring, that's a video in itself I strongly believe no card is the problem, it's people that cause the problem
@@googloocraft12 That sounds like a conversation that needs to be had. Typically people are against proxies for bad reasons, but if the group is aligned on what kind of play experience they want, cards shouldn't be a problem
From the thumbnail I expected a very frantic video with a bunch of fake enthusiasm, but instead it's well thought out, calmly and well presented and above all else highly informative in terms of making the game fun! Good job, you earned yourself a subscriber!
I think i've found the funniest way to lose in commander. Teferi's puzzlebox, and wedding ring. The panic in their voice as they suddenly have 3-4 turns to figure out how to stop themselves from decking themselves, and they never even get mad, because i'm decking myself just as fast, and i have a grand total of 1 artifact removal in my deck 😂
BLESSED MELEK POSTING my casual Melek list i have in paper required 0 trading, plays a ton of cards no one has ever wanted to play (i just cut searing winds for example) and it makes them at least nearly playable or cracked. it feels SO good to play crummy cards at a good rate, and make people go "oh, your commander says THAT?"
Haha my fellow Melek enjoyer 🤜🤛 He's so good isn't he. Agree it's incredibly fun playing all these random, yet fantastic cards for far less than they should. Whilst not a random card, I love nothing more than casting Traumatize on myself for almost no mana and turning Melek into a 25/25
@@BasedDeckDept Unfortunately for this "everyone gets to have fun :)" mentality, he's also incredibly good at theft and land destruction. And I am 100% that person. Lands have had it too good for too long, I'm coming for your ancient tombs and I'm keeping your Jin-Gitaxias
@@gammarayrjs If anyone is out here playing broken utility lands thinking they're free of persecution, may the long arm of the law, Sherriff Melek take them right to jail
@@BasedDeckDept Thanks for responding it's nice to know you are putting in a lot of effort and overall I felt your video was quite well made keep it up. (:
Incredible video! We need more people thinking about commander in this way. I want to add a few things though. I'm going to use the Kemba Kha Enduring deck I recently built for my extreme budget pod as an example (15 euro budget) #1: Go out of your way to build archetypes in non-typical ways. (for example: looking for commanders that change things up or building it in the "wrong" colors) Kemba is an equipment commander, which typically just means voltron. But Kemba wants you to distribute your equipment over as many cats as possible, so that you can enjoy a free equip and +1 boost. This completely changes your card choices and transforms the DNA of the deck. You want to go wide with cats and cheap equipment and you don't care for equip costs, which all plays very differently from typical equipment decks #2: Play cards that win against cards your deck loses to. What does a go wide deck lose against? Board clears. So I play cards that save my team, like Resistance Reunited. What else can it lose to? Decks that go taller than it and snuff it out before it can get there. So I play efficient creature removal specifically and ONLY to target things that are too big for the deck to deal with reasonably, like Valorous Stance. This results in me being to put up a fight in the face of problematic cards or decks instead of folding at the first sign of resistance #3: Make sure your interaction/card draw fits into your decks strategy (The video already touched on this one, but I want to articulate it a bit more) In my deck ALL of the card draw either cares for or is the form of equipment and all but 1 of my removal pieces are either also cats, equipment or protection. I also don't play a single board clear in this deck either, instead opting to use Declaration in Stone to deal with token/copy decks, which also acts as a fine removal spell outside of that. With a focused Interaction package like this I very often have access to what I need #4: Redundancy. Make sure you run important effects multiple times or, if you can't, play a lot of recursion. My deck plays Auriok Windwalker, Brass Squire and the horribly expensive Puresteel Paladin for the times when my commander isn't around, since I always need access to a way to get around the high equip costs of my things. I also play effects like One Last Job to make sure they stick around #5: Most importantly of all: build on a budget. At least once. It naturally nudges you to include cards you'd normally never consider and exclude staple cards because of their price tag. You definitely don't have to go as extreme with it as me, but limiting yourself to something like 50 euro is already plenty Again, great video. Love your stuff!
Thanks friend, glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛 and a big fan of all your additions. It's no surprise there are a bunch of budget brews on my channel relating to #5 😁 hope you enjoy the next one equally as much
Love kemba. I got my face smashed in once many many moons ago by a particularly scary kitty deck. I built her with less of a budget mindset and more of a get the best cats that dont cost tooooo much (no balan, wandering knight) and give them all swords. And protection. I gave it to a friend who stopped listening after i said "cats". He pulled out the God Hand. Some kitties, enough lands, and Colossus Hammer. He had a 12/12 on turn 3. My gf and her sister look at me immediately with a "what did you build? What did you do? You did this. You made this. This is on you." I just started grinning and saying okay okay but play it again and that wont happen😂
I have a $50 Jasper Flint deck that I pull out sometimes, and every time I do, I end up saying to someone "If you didn't want to lose to X, you shouldn't have put it in your deck." Most recently X was Ghalta, Primal Hunger which I played as a massive blocker to wall out the dino deck from killing me. My personal favorite was when I reanimated an Atla Palani player's Void Winnower, who had a bit of a tantrum about how he couldn't play the game anymore before ragequitting a couple turns later. It's an interesting thing to watch, how unpleasant people realize their cards are when suddenly someone else is playing them instead. I don't pull this deck out very often anymore, I initially built it to play against newer players to match the power level of the table, which it never really does.
You are the hero we deserve 🤜🤛 And couldn't agree more that it's always the people who play the worst cards, in the worst faith, that complain the loudest when the shoe is on the other foot. Keep up the good work soldier
I've been workshopping a copy deck for the same reason. I don't really want to take people cards (respect that you do!) but playing other people's cards as a way to show them what they do. Also, the copy character in any fanstasy/anime is my favorite almost everytime
Thanx for this video, you found the essence of commander. As I'm building a playgroup, I struggled a lot with the notion of competitivity and the need of winning. I like your vision of playing less powerful in order to play with more fun.
Thanks for watching If you haven't already watched my video on building a playgroup (make more friends) 100% do that, it's literally all about that topic of building playgroups. I think you'll enjoy it
Yeah I can probably do a whole video on the development over time of dynamics of a play group and how that affects decks going strong vs interesting. Glad you enjoyed this, and thanks for watching! Share it far and wide to get your friends and play groups to build based decks
I think this video is great! And I find my decks have moved towards your philosophy over the years, as it generates better games. Though I think your 6th principle (build focused decks) counteracts your first principle (seek novelty). At the extreme end: If your deck does the same thing every game, it will lose novelty very quickly. This is why pre-con decks tend to have 2-3 gameplans within them. While bad for power level reasons, having multiple gameplans is a great way to force you to play creatively (principle #2) and increase novelty (principle #1).
Thanks for watching friend I would say my view is simply that rather than having a deck with 2-3 game plans, I just have 2-3 decks. Same principle overall though
I relatively recently had to teach one of my friends to play commander, who had never played MTG. I built what I *thought* was a simple ramp deck, only to realize while we were actually playing, how difficult the deck was for a casual. Things that made the deck better and that I thought were relatively simple like tutors, searching the top X cards, shuffling the deck, counters, and other things, proved to be pretty difficult for a beginner to handle. I've since made a lot of revisions to said deck and some of my other commander decks, with specific emphasis on simplicity for a casual player who doesn't even know what cards are in the deck. Using a tutor is easy if you know what to get, but overwhelming if you don't, so those had to go. Choosing what card to take from the top X can take a long time if you have to read every card, easily replaced with simple "Draw a card" options instead. Shuffling a large deck for a beginner can be unwieldy, so bye bye to cards that required shuffling. After making a lot of these changes and testing the deck, I started to realize that not only was the deck simpler, it was also more fun to play. If previously my play pattern was to use my commander to get a tutor so that I can get a specific card, what was the point of playing a 100-card format if I was just going to do the same play pattern every time. Now that the deck was more random, it was waaay more fun to play with and as. I subsequently went back to a lot of my other decks, and made equivalent changes to them. A lot of the points you made in the video are thoughts I also had while editing these decks, for example the concept of still making the deck "Good", even if it isn't "Optimal". A simpler more random deck is fun, but getting to do things is also fun, so the deck can't just suck or we're back in the no-fun zone again. I think somewhere along the way of optimizing decks I had forgotten the original point of Commander, which is to have fun. Deckbuilding is a lot more interesting as well when you try to come up with unused or unusual options for staple cards that you've used before. Tldr, I liked your video.
Fantastic thoughts friend, and appreciate you watching. It's also ironic as yesterday I had the idea to maybe do a video about how to best teach / onboard our friends into commander, and how we as more experienced players can make their experience as good as possible. This definitely adds to that thought process!
It sure took a while for somebody to actually make a Commander guide that isn’t just “this place is a warzone or boring with no inbetween”, but I’m glad it exists. You can teach a grade schooler how to play Magic well, but you finally, finally got me to stop thinking about all Aggro all the time in this format. I’ve only seen the big names show signs of life like this when, well, live and unscripted. It doesn’t cover everything, but it covers what it has to if you want to enjoy the format as it is, not as you want it
Really nice video that wants to keep the spirit of the format going, I would say though I do very much enjoy playing very high power decks with the few mates down for that, remember people, enjoy the game however you want! Everything has its time and place somewhere, from vanilla tribal decks to cedh lists!
Thanks friend, appreciate you watching! Definitely nothing wrong with higher power decks. It is actually my preferred end of the spectrum having come from playing competitive predominantly competitive magic, but more casual play widens the pool of people I can play with, hence my exploration and appreciation of what commander is meant to be. Mirroring what you're saying one can have all the fun, social hijinx of commander playing the most cracked cardboard there is. It's the people, not the cardboard that make the game. The joy of commander is truly that it can be anything to anyone, provided the 4 people sitting down are aligned in what kind of experience they want to have
I appreciate this video for how similar an approach to deck building and game philosophy. It's part of what got me to pick up Rielle the Everwise after playing about a month of Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. I wanted to draw lots of cards but I also wanted quicker turns so opponents wouldn't get too bored or frustrated. Turns out, she's really quite good to play. Built in power ramping so you can dome someone for lethal commander damage in one to two hits, unique draw mechanic which capitalizes on Izzet's plethora of looting/rummaging, and discard as an additional cost spells/abilities. This lets you turn something like Rites of Refusal into a Counterspell that is also a Tolarian Winds.
i support the idea that one should build a deck that is fun to play against and that the better games people have are those that are interesting rather than those that they win. whe it think is important to point out though is that a great story is born is stuggle. commander games are no different. the secret to an interesting game is not what decks you play and specifically having a deck that is interesting and unique. it is about playing to succeed while removing the attachment the game has to your self worth (a big problem in tcg games for some reason) and being satisfied with a loss provided it was an interesting game. i prefer playing a more optimzed deck and like including good staples where i can. this does not mean that i need a demonic tutor in every one of my black decks, and trust me i know it is boring to lose to the same combo every time. but when a win comes in an unexpected way that is satisfying. i honestly think we all need to work on our social skills more and learn that games where we are proud to be obliterated by a hamster that hits as hard as saitama from one punch man and congratulate the opponent sincerely will lead to far more fun in a game. (and yes i have lost to the same boo hamster deck many times as getting hitt witha 30/30 trample with hast tends to take me out pretty quickly.) if i had to critique the video in any way i would say try to remove the "based" component from it. in truth there is no deck that is more "giga-chad" than another, and using that lingo and those kind of jokes is more off putting imo that funny. just my own thoughts though
Thanks for the input. Love the sentiment re social skills, as that's where 99% of the problems in commander come from. As for based feedback, that's a bit of a challenge given my channel name but in context of the video, it seemed fitting for the thumbnail more so than anything else 👍
As a new player this was a very insightful video, with the added bonus that you introduced some fun cards to me, I’d love to see more “Fun Deck” MTG videos!
Agree with all your points. I like to think of my deck as a story telling device. I’ve had many people at my LGS and conventions all tell me stories of something cool that happened in their games. I wanna enable more stories to be told. An unexpected card,a well timed gotcha…I want everyone to leave the game happy and talking about fun moments
Insanely well tought out and executed video, great work man. I really adore your philosophy of deck building and playing edh as a whole. i find often myself searching for cards that are explicitly powerful and make my deck strong, but for decks with very weird or cool types of interaction. for example i love my mazzy deck, were a briar shield turns into a stupidly good card. and of course, i could look such cards up at edhrec or other sources, but i found that card while looking through a friends old mtg collection, and that just feels awesome. keep up the great work!
@@vinz4015 Thanks friend. Glad you enjoyed it! 🤜🤛A lot of the magic of commander is finding people that share a similar philosophy about how to play, or what they want out of a game. Finding great cards that are a 10/10 in a very specific deck, and getting to hare that experience with others is such a good time.
The idea of using flexible cards really spoke to me. Aside from Beast Within and Generous Gift, I also use cards like Divide by Zero, Oblation, and Supreme Will. I tend to value flexibility over efficiency, which is why I'd never run something like Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares. Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 Playing flexible cards is such an important concept. Glad it resonated with you! Don't sleep on Path to Exile though. In the right deck you can exile your own token or a creature that you want to die and ramp a land. Rampant Growth for a single white mana isn't bad and pretty flexible
Great video! Turns out I love deck building more than I love playing the game itself! Only been in the hobby for 3 years or so. Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 And yeah I'm in the same boat. It's actually why I made this channel and why I started with deck brews. Building decks and talking about building decks is what I enjoy most about MTG, and playing commander to me is literally social fun + deck testing
This is why I love to play group hug decks. Doing stuff like “oh, everyone draw some cards!” or, “oh, I gave the land I have to pass around to it her players more mana generation, be kind and pass it to the right, won’t you?” As much fun as it is taking a 15 minute turn via Dockside and winning with 120 Niv-Mizzet Parun triggers, passing around a land that taps for 3 of any color or making everyone draw 3 cards each turn is enjoyable every time.
Thanks for watching ❤️ agree re group hug. It often feels like it accelerates games as opposed to slows them (provided the group hug player isn't planning on resetting the game every few turns)
Well I think my playgroup doesn’t agree, I give a lot of card draw to everyone and the only thing I get in return is more removal into my face. I guess they prefer discarding XD.
Glad you enjoyed it Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 Boomerang is an OG, how dare they! To be fair there are so many good bounce spells now that it is power crept out a little, but hey, if it works, it's still an incredible and versatile card.
I experienced a bit of this with my Ghyrson Starn deck. I hadn't played in years, and wanted to get back in with that deck, and I didn't realize how strong/popular of a commander he was. However, I did intentionally go with the weaker variant of his deck (the Izzet spellslinging variant) because I wanted to go all-in on being a "wizard cowboy". Partly because of inexperience, I accidentally put several combos in the deck, but the deck isn't built around them, they only exist because the individual cards are just good in the deck (combo-ing Niv-Mizzet with Tandem Lookout and Ghyrson, for example). Even with those combos in the deck, it's a fun time to play and play against (as far as I can tell and have been told) because the deck isn't built to get the combo pieces out, and I make it clear when we set up that they're in there, but the deck isn't built around them, so when the combos do go off it's less of a "god dammit the combo player is going again" and more "oh SHIT the combo went off!" Alternatively it also works with my favorite deck: Chandra Tribal. It's a little more "mono red superfriends" now, but I built a deck with (currently) 11 Chandra planeswalkers, 2 Koths, and 2 Jayas, with Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh as the commander because planeswalkers are my favorite card type, and Chandra is my favorite planeswalker, so why not? It's a deck without a ton of a super-concrete gameplan beyond "play planeswalkers and cast spells until you win and/or lose", but it leads to a very fun, freeform table where for me I get to try and adapt between casting spells, using planeswalker abilities, and even within that deciding whether to focus on the utility of + and - abilities or trying to mainline it for the emblem abilities, and then waiting for the great moments like one game where I managed to get Chandra, Dressed to Kill's emblem off twice at once, or killing the table with a damage-doubled Prisoner's Dilemma (my favorite card in all of Magic).
This is part of why me and my friend like to build decks in tandem - sometimes we end up with decks that specifically have really fun games when played against each other specifically. My buddy loved playing Kardur Doomscourge, but I hated playing against it with my Chandra planeswalker-focused deck, but when I swapped to my Tyranid deck or my mono green Eladamri deck where being goaded isn't as annoying. He also retooled the Kardur deck after a while, going from a Gladiator Joaquin Phoenix RP Server to an "I'm Joining the War on War on the Side of War" arms dealer deck where he hands out cards and buffs and then tells people to fight. The second one is FAR more fun to play against. It gave me 22 0/1 goats once. It was a good time.
For me, the thing with powerful staples is, I don't want to win because I played Gaea's Cradle, or Sol Ring, or The One Ring. If I won, I want it to be because my bunny commander made a bunch of bunnies, or my tricky card-filtering commander assembled the pieces for an unlikely gamewinning contraption. If I spend 15 mana and draw four cards while developing the biggest board on turn 5, I don't really feel like the cards I play are making much of a difference at that point. Just about any win condition works if it's amped up with enough juice. I am a player who craves novelty, so I always make sure that's something I'm contributing at the table.
I strongly agree with your philosophy here and wouldn't really object to everyone following these rules. One point I would add (or more likely it's a sub-point within your philosophy) is don't be afraid to experiment. This kinda flies in the face of building focused decks at times, but when you aren't sure what you want to do with a deck, start broad and see what you like and how it plays out. Even as your decks get more focused, when you find a card you like don't be afraid to plug it in somewhere and make edits. Try it in a couple decks and see where you want it. This kinda fits into your deck building adventure. Also, I don't think Sol Ring needs to be banned, but I'm fine with leaving it out of decks. It is probably still in most of my decks, because it is fun to get a bit of a fast start from time to time, but there are several decks that skip on it. The way I see Sol Ring play out when it's the only fast mana piece is that it paints you as the target for everyone else until someone better should arise. So getting a head start against 3 other opponents who will focus more on you isn't as helpful as people tend to think. Especially if they play with interaction of all kinds (like you said, not just removal) to keep the game interesting. Everybody wants a chance for their deck to hum and "do the thing," so if your fast start is coupled with an instant win combo, that's a problem, but if you're trying to play aggro/Voltron, you could really use the help.
My first deck that I owned is Kolaghan, The Storm's Fury, and so far it's been pretty popular in my low power environment since casting big dragons that swing out for big damage is both fun and interactive when compared to the flood of value engines in the Command Zone Armix, Filigree Thrasher & Rebbec, Architect of Ascension (Orzhov Artifact Aggro) has also garnered respect and admiration for finding strange cards and making them work, as that deck is made of cards I pulled from packs only
Hoyl hells, its neat to see another person taking the base philosophy of commander back into focus. I am arguing so much with my playgroup, why I use the more complicated to use/ not best in slot cards for my decks. Or try to argue why I want a good game, not a win per se. Great video! /edit: also looking through scryfall for suiting cards is super fun. I just love that site.
Thanks for watching friend, glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛 Time to send this video to your play group to grow the based department I feel your pain. I'm very lucky with my playgroup, though we've gone through our own developments which is a video in itself I think. And re philosophy, given the recent announcements and vitriol aimed at the RC, it's more important than ever that where we can, we remind people this is supposed to be the fun, social format about connecting with people. There are tons of formats focused on winning.
I subscribe to the idea that first and foremost the defining trait of each deck is the commander. Thus almost every card should in some way or form synergyze with it. Unfortunately that means that the power level depends heavily on the chosen commander and as soon as I've had one pop-off game my co-players are on the safer side if they preferably remove it. The decks where there are the most: "oh that's a really fun idea"-moments are things like etrata deadly fugitive, where almost all removal puts things on top of their owners libraries to be stolen by her trigger and played by me in turn. But then there is my sacrifice deck around Carmen Cruel Skymarcher that can go the aristocrats route or the mass removal route. That can really annoy some people, especially if their deck doesn't have the means to create multiple creatures in a turn and they feel locked out of the game. It's really tough to make a (midrange) deck that feels strong enough without it being overwhelming. The same goes for combo decks. There is a reason I've retired a lot more decks than I currently have right now.
Thanks for watching (and commenting) friend Yeah l am very similar to you in the way that I like to build. I love taking a commander that interests me, and going all in on maximizing their abilities and the themes that plays into.
I'll do that at some point, but for now, here's my deck list. It's accurate for the most part, and comes with the warning that I only play it in the right pod as it's filed with crime www.moxfield.com/decks/_Lb299ogFkacLKwBvk0beQ 🤜🤛
This video is the truth. I always had the mentality of building decks i wouldnt hate losing to. Its not about the win its about the journey to get there. Id rather lose but have a great match where we all were doing things than win a game where i steam rolled the table. I could have made my illuna into a lab man or oracle deck...but mutate voltron is so much more fun. Sure i could have built a typical gitrog cantrip deck....but putting it in the 99 of a glarb frog tribal deck seems like the right choice😂
I built a Flubs, The Fool deck and I adore it. Filled it with pet cards and group hug cards and political cards. Mini game cards too like Custody Battle. He's a commander that really allows you to fill a deck with whatever you want
I so agree with this video. I love to play janky gimmicks or themed decks, with weird inclusions that people might not expect like a single ninjutsu card or a single foretell card that'll throw everyone for a loop. My favorite card in this sense is Shifting Grift, which I use to swap two of my opponents' creatures to either kill synergies or to favor someone who might be behind. Commander is at its best when it's weird and people are playing tacky cards. If I wanted to see everyone playing fast mana, the same 3 board wipes or removal, and cards that draw through half their deck in one turn, I'd go play another format.
Love this sentiment as long as the wackiness synergizes with what I'm doing 😁 also a big fan of cards that swap creatures. My favourite is modify memory. Gets you 3 cards in the process 😁
I happen to have "Pull from Eternity". I basically never play atm, but I really do want to have that in a deck, because of the weird things you can do with it :D Of course, you can return something that was exiled to your graveyard. But I think removing something from exile that someone put there purposefully, or helping another player out, would be really funny if it happened to fit. I really like cards that have unusual effects like this, and another good example is Lapse of Certainty, which is unusual for the color it's in. I have never seen either in any video, so I am looking forward to using them, and wanted to bring them up, in case you were unaware of their existence ;)
Thanks for watching friend ❤️ lapse of certainty is cool. Basically a white memory lapse. As for pull from eternity, I imagine that would be great against impulse draw decks 😅
Some of my favorite commander exclusive legends in recent years were the exclusive ones in Capenna! Those decks were very silly anyway considering the mechanics they decided to focus on(typically being lots of group interaction, even if Tivit has sort of ran away with that idea). But Vazi, Keen Negotiator might genuinely be one of my favorite casual decks and works both as a “kingmaker” deck and a group slug deck all at once. I’m always reminded of a game where it came down to myself and another player and a 12 counter Descent into Avernus trigger would have killed us both and left the game in a draw. And then he countered the trigger on the stack and killed me 😂 the whole store collectively booed him for ruining the fun and we still joke about it from time to time
To add, while I’m sad about the loss of Dockside for my mono Red cEDH deck, I think losing it for Vazi is the biggest gutpunch 😭 it was the easiest way to make a ton of treasures and hand them to other people while giving me an option to win later in the game if it drags on
You sound like you'd fit into my playgroup 😁 we often talk about how underrated and how much of a banger new capenna is. Descent into Avernus is also a very loved card in the same way. Thanks for watching friend, glad you found this video 🤜🤛
"Damn that's cool" has been Marina Vendrell for me lately, from the Duskmourn set. Just spending my game unlocking, locking, and re-unlocking doors for their wild effects with 44+ enchantments in the deck Marina can hit for her ETB has been hilariously good fun.
I'm really interested in rooms, but I'd be worried that this deck might feel a little solitairey. Does it feel like you have ample opportunities to interact with the board?
I've always found it fun to make a deck that has an inherent flaw to it, like my latest creation Emry, Lurker of the Loch that is only swords, stones, knights and water themes. Figured it worked with the whole "Lady of the Lake" style art on the card. Is it the most tuned artifact draw Emry deck? No, but I do get to play things like Lodestone Bauble which would never see play for any reason otherwise. Or Dark Sphere because it at least looks like a stone.
Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 This is the exact novelty I meant. One does have to balance power a bit, or play decks like that into similarly powered decks, but love the sentiment.
I love building decks that is are all about funny things like Bernard ginger sculptor and Ygra. However since I can't have them as the commanders, I have to find commanders that either benefit me or just have the colors. I'm currently thinking about how I'm going to build a Wick the whorled mind deck. My current pet deck is Denry Klin editor in chief. I recently built a five color vehicle deck. I love building crazy gimmick decks
@@gpwaltz I ran Kyodai for the flash indestructible feature. I bought a Ramos but I never really played the commander aside from niche circumstances. I'm actually excited for more vehicles and hopefully more cards for a faster deck
I find that building with limitations also helps a lot with making the deck building process more fun, and can create moments in games that are truly legendary. I was running my 5 color pure spellslinger deck, and an opponent running Lonis looked at my empty board and assumed that I've been having the worst draws and most of my good creatures are still in my library. They used up like 20 clues trying to look for creature, and found nothing but lands, instants, and sorceries.
Love that. Yeah I think limitations are great. Like my Simon Wild Magic Sorcerer deck where every instant or sorcery has to be 3cc or above. It's obviously tied mechanically to him, but it's more fun that way than running mana drain.etc.
An analogy I use is, when you sit down to watch an epic movie you don't want to get a sitcom, or especially a tiktok video. On the topic of challenge i see it like a video game, the first time you play it it's ok to play on easy mode, but the real challenge is to beat it on legendary mode. To do this things like using sub rate generals and by cutting tutors/staples. One thing you mentioned was being hyper focused on theme and I don't agree, one thing I tell newer players is to have verrying archetypes spread across the color spectrum but imo the decks i play the most are rather generic in theme because they are the most easily tweaked through time and feel the freshest. but yes play fun flexible cards and you will have fun varying games. And don't forget your grave hate kids🙃
I agree that Commander is a social game first, and people who only try to win miss much of the enjoyment; however, I will always run Sol Ring. That high of going Sol Ring, Arcane Signet turn 1 is godly. Does it make me a target? Sure, but god damn, it feels good.
Turn one Sol Ring makes for a very good early game twist, throwing a curveball at every other player who didn't have one in their opening hand, keeping things interesting
@@BasedDeckDept It rarely wins any of us the game, it's all about how you respond to the Sol Ring coming out in the following turns that determines whether or not they run away with the game. I ramp like crazy with or without Sol Ring (green player here) so it doesn't matter to me, but for players outside of green, Sol Ring is a great way to avoid getting mana screwed or left behind by other players that have ramp
I wish more people could understand this concept, I’ve stepped away from commander and have gotten into standard due to everyone wanting to pub stomp, which has lead me to adopt that attitude in turn so I decided it’s time for some change.
That is why I made this video, so that hopefully it can affect some change and make those that are a product of their environment change and in turn change that environment with them. Thanks for watching ❤️
this isnt thaaat related to the vid but i have format i wanted to share: "collector" its kinda a slower form of draft: basically if you enter into it you start by choosing the colors u wanna play and then you get a completely random singleton 40 card deck with cards of that color (and some random artifacts too if you opt into that) then every match you get to open a "booster" (its not an actual booster its 4-5 random cards in the same card sleeve you open that was prepped beforehand) these new cards are added to your "trash pile" and you may swap the ones in your trash pile with ones in your deck or trade them with other players (basic lands are not included, you can just add or remove them however you want and you may also add 3 shocklands the same way, these guerentied cards dont go into the trash pile if you swap them out with non-basic lands you got from a booster) once your trash pile has 65+ cards in it you may not get new boosters from matches until you "lock in" a deck meaning the deck you've been building up with the cards you got may no longer be edited and is added to the list of locked in decks you can play against each other and then you build a new deck out of the 65 cards still in your trash pile, then you may also still keep 5 cards from the trash pile and the rest goes back into the random card pool for anyone to get in the "boosters" and the cycle repeats. as an example: I first started out with a Colorless artifact deck since i thought choosing colorless as my deck color was clever but the deck was rly bad but then i got a library of alexandria and dark ritual in the random packs which helped alot and then later i looked through the trash pile and relized i had alot of izzet instant synergy/copy stuff so by the time i had 65 cards it ended up being a grixis control deck that wins most of the time via lava axe imprinted on panoptic mirror while also having an ensnaring bridge or getting a cityscape leveler and/or valgavoth, harrower of souls with dark ritual + ebon stronghold sac waaaaay before your supposed to and run away with the value from there. but just like i improved my deck from the bad starting deck so did my friends so it stays balanced (though the grixis deck is still considered to be the best one but its also so far the only one that got locked in since i play more then my friends so hardly suprising) I think playing like this helps with the problem of only picking the best meta cards over and over cuz if you dont get in your boosters, though luck but at the same time if you do get a rly good card like sol ring (which another friend actually did already) then it doesnt instantly win you the game cuz you only have 1 of it and cant build your intire deck around it cuz of your limited card resources and the deck building process becomes alot more enjoyable when you dont have to consider 1000+ cards at all times and get decision fatigued
Thanks for watching friend I think that's a very interesting idea as well. I've seen similar ideas with a cube. Each game someone opens a pack and chooses a card to the ever growing cube. Love it.
@@BasedDeckDept ye its great, btw after i locked in the grixis deck my deck is very bad again naturally but it does have infinte reflection + animar which could lead to some funny ramp lol
Ah, a kindred soul. If only more people were approaching commander like this. Among my most prescious memories playing commander was when I named the guy after me in turn order my "friend" with Khorvath's Fury the turn after he cast Behold the Beyond.
@@BasedDeckDept No problem :) That game was full of moments (it was 5 years ago but I still keep comming back to it): It was a 3 hour five player FFA: Me running K&T politics, next in TO: grixis Marchesa; UR chaos; Teysa Karlov; and Ramos. Chaos player wipes with Blasphemous Act, teysa player has a Divine Visitation. I managed to ramp hard so I go Hunted Troll (giving the tokens to the teysa player), Skullwinder (choosing the chaos guy to get back Act) and still having G open for regen :D "I don't know what you don't like, I'm giving you angels." -"NOT LIKE THIS!" -"Ungrateful 🙃" Later chaos player "Lets have some *fun*" deploys Mind's Dilation. Me failing to contain my giggles "Oh you have no idea" as I show the marchesa player the Fractured Identity in my hand. To which the teysa player goes "I don't like what you're planning" and he himself destroys the enchantment.
I will never forget when my buddy had one life left, and my other buddy had forbidden orchard and suture priest out. He tapped the Orchard and won by giving his opponent a 1/1 spirit that triggered surure priest when it entered lol
This is how I build my decks, except I only use cards I got at home. So it makes me become even more inventive in what to include. It's fun and makes me appreciate my decks more than slap a staple bundle into every deck. There are tons of underplayed cards that needs a home! I can also recommend reducing board wipes and add more "I'm gonna eff you all up" cards as it speeds up games and makes them explosive. I, and many others groan when games takes a long time after 3-4 board wipes. Rather having a couple faster epic action games than slug fests.
Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 the board wipe point is a fantastic one and I should have mentioned it. I've advocated for less board wipes for ages and my play group thankfully agrees
@@BasedDeckDept yeah and also of you instead of board wipes, include board protection, you can anticipate a wipe and come out swinging like a mad champ haha.
I have a deck I'm improving upon that does a weird strategy for burn. Its a Vial Smasher burn ping deck. A large amount of my enchants/creatures hits you for 1 or 2 damage whenever you do something. But combine this with damage multipliers and suddenly everything you do hits you for 3, 4 damage, 4-7 times a turn. Its a real nasty burn deck that kinda bypasses the whole 120 HP issue since it triggers on everyone, INCLUDING yourself. The saving grace being a few cards like Vial Smasher that only hit the enemy to keep you ahead of their life totals. I've been told this is a PL7 in its current iteration and in theory I might be able to push it to PL8 if I can find ways to optimize it further.
My current favorite deck to play is my upgraded Bumbleflower precon. And when I say upgraded, I don't mean that I added ways to negate my gifts... I added far *more* friendly effects, more counters to players, more cards, more politics. I love playing it and people seem to like playing against it!
Based Ironically after a similar comment yesterday I'm now working on a deck that I have currently titled "Fast and Furious" where the literal only focus is accelerating everyone elses game plans. If I have any win conditions, they'll be intended as slow bonuses, like the Millennium Calendar.
Omg yay I've been on the Sol Ring hate train for a couple years now. It's so hard to convince people that Sol Ring just makes less interesting games, less interesting decks. There's an addiction to this stupid little card. I've also taken it out of my decks. Was really freeing. Anyway, good stuff.
I agree that commander isn't necessarily competitive in nature like all the other formats within mtg. But also it's the format with the most diversity and I think that's a good thing. Commander can be what you described in the early part of the video to some. And it can be what cedh is to others. I think that's all fine as long as we communicate with one another about what commander is to us and we all have a good understanding of each other's perspectives going into a game.
Couldn't agree more. Everything to everyone as long as people communicate and are on the same page. The only catch there is bad actors, but there's no mechanical solution for that. Thanks for watching friend
I agree with most of your thoughts, I sont have many copies of powerfull cards and with my 18+ decks I have to chose which cards fits which deck. But I do play those powerfull cards just not all in a few decks rather than a few in each deck. This makes my decks a little bit more powerfull but doesnt make it unfun. Also I have a playgroup which will tell you if a card or a deck is not fun and will attack you first if you keep playing it.
I actually think it is cool to have a FEW signature cards / pet cards that make it into several decks where they thematically fit. Just make sure they aren't boring staples, but cards you like and seemingly no one else likes (enough to play them). Some pet cards of mine are Felidar Retreat, Arwen Mortal Queen, Rancor/Audacity, Embercleave...
Thanks for watching Yeah I have no issue with pet cards, provided they actively do something cool in the deck one is playing and add to the synergy rather than detract from it
@@BasedDeckDept Yes of course they should also fit the deck, however I like to put them in even if they might not make the cut if you just put in the X most synergistic cards. For example I run Felidar Retreat in Duskana, because it makes 2/2s; in Atraxa +1/+1 counters, because it can give everything counters and enable the whole board for the commander; in a Susan Foreman Landramp Battlecruiser, because it creates a lot of blockers; in Arahbo because it makes Cats; and in Karametra Enchantress because it is an enchantment and also I get decent landfall there. But it is a pet card simply because I love cats and like the artwork!
Great video with emphasys on "fun of a process" instead of "fun of winning". Although I would recommend to change the font of the text in the video as this one is too cursive-heavy to comfortably and quickly read during the video.
Thanks for watching And yeah I'll be changing the font in my next video. You can already see the thumbnails have all been changed to a new heading font. Appreciate the input 🤜🤛
Great video, but there is one problem that got me so many times - if you build interesting deck with not so flashy/unussual cards, there is always one guy that lie about his power lvl deck and fuk whole table with "good" cards. Just be sure that whole table is on the same page if you want play slower, more casual game.
A thing I have been doing lately is when i find a commander i want to build, i first build the deck with cards i already have. I just grab my bulk boxes that i have built up from draft games, and pick out more cards than i need, and then cut down to 100 cards. This makes decks that are more unique, because i am just going with what i have, not whats is optimal. it saves money, and makes decks that are closer to precon power levels. Then if i like the deck i will slowly buy cards to put in to make it better, but try to keep some of the weird cards in. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone if you don't have bulk boxes. But i think a lot of magic players have bulk that they never even use, and that's a shame i have found some hidden gems cards this way.
I'm sure there are, but I made these because I thought my viewpoint is a bit different to most. That said, if you're not already watching him, Salubrious Snail is the goat. He's arguably the reason I started making videos as I think he inspired me by his views on the game were different and interesting which made me realize I also had views that could be different and interesting.
Here's a fun way to play commander: Make all commanders start at a 7 CMC. This both evens out very low CMC commanders with high CMC commanders and makes the 99 more important to the gameplay. Encouraging what would otherwise too high CMC and difficult to play commanders that are fun. Also makes what are popular mana accelerators such as Sol Ring and Jeweled Lotus more useful and less game breaking. In my playgroup this works out to be very fun games and allows the pet cards to be kept in the decks. Full disclosure: I and my playgroup are fine with somewhat longer games. F stax though.
Even the way I built Chaos was designed to make it more fun, where i throw a spanner in the works like a challenge and players can choose to fix or ignore the problem presented.
_"It's not impressive just because it works, it's impressive if we all ask to see it again"_
-Mauldhound
As he often is, Maldhound is based.
My favorite deck is my rocco cabaretti caterer deck with norin the wary as a secret commander, and I think it's because it was one of the only decks (out of 35 or so I've built in my life) that my friends asked me to play because they thought it was cool. I've been chasing that high ever since
@@edwardcowart5990 My friend runs the other Rocco, and I've had very similar sentiments for him too. Thanks for watching
I run Rocco, Street Chef! It is an elf tribal deck. I affectionately call it, "An Elven Dining Experience." It revolves around a group hug(kinda) style. It ramps everyone fast, gains everyone life, and puts +1 counters on everything! Sometimes, people fight at dinnertime. I do my best to keep it civil, but I can't control everything, I'm just the Chef!! 😂😂
I'm passing this video around, your philosophy is basically the exact same as mine, I was watching the video yelling "THAT'S WHAT I SAY TOO!!" Good stuff my dude.
Based commander community rise up 🤜🤛 Glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully you enjoy the next one equally as much
Omg, another magic player that thinks commander is social and should be fun for everyone. I found my people! Finally!
One of us. One of us. One of us. 🤜🤛
play a board game, you will get more out of it
@@62chipo a love board games! But they aren't Magic
I agree. However, you always need that one bullshit combo deck for assholes who think it's competitive.
@@BasedDeckDeptI was wondering I've been contemplating building a deck very similar to what you described in this video but I'm a bit of a Timmy player and not sure who to have as my commander as well as either a naya, jund, or temur but want to make it so it's not stax but rather just punishing for not playing creatures mostly. Also I prefer blue beings that I tend to be more of a control player but very open-minded as far as not using my main color identity as a player. So any recommendations as far as that and DEFINITELY more on the casual to maybe mildly uncomfortable competitive nature and as an example I like ruric thar but wouldn't mind the ability to counter a few things in a pinch
I play a lot of Apex Legends, a battle royale shooter where similar to Commander, you should statistically be losing most of the time. Most of the very best Apex games I've played have ended in losses, so it prompts the question: What makes a good loss? How can you ensure that a game that ends in defeat was to some degree fun for you?
For me, it's interaction (did we get into a few scuffles along the way?), it's having options (did we have multiple chances to fight, flee, or reposition?), and did we stick it out to the end (where choices feel more consequential, with heightened stakes?). Oh, and of course, did we communicate as a team? Games where we fought, retreated, got to the final five squads, and communicated well...are pretty much *guaranteed* to be a good time.
I think all of those apply to Commander and good deck building. Taking game actions in response to others' game actions, using flexible/modal spells creatively rather than having other players' swingy actions always dictate game flow. Having a *resilient* deck that'll help you get to the final showdown, rather than glass cannoning yourself to last place. And finally, avoiding those solitaire/battlecruiser games that essentially ignore the fact that you're playing with real human beings.
This was a great video - and it came just at the right time, as I was locking in my first (honestly pretty boring) Selesnya +1/+1 Counters deck. I'm gonna take another major pass at it with your ideas in mind!
@@gpwaltz Great thoughts friend 🤜🤛 And good luck with the +1/+1 build. At it's core, boring is how I see a counters deck as well, but I'd say some time spent looking for interesting cards on scryfall may help that a lot. In some decks, I love pump effects as they make combat all kinds of fun. Perhaps there's a similar angle with counters. That could be very different
@@gpwaltzFrom my experience people will focus all there removal on you if you play a counter +1/+1 deck unless someone is know in your group to be the best player and brings stronger deck. It’s just such an obvious strategy that everyone understands so you basically can’t pass under the radar
My guy i dont understand how you dont have more subscribers. Your videos are great and super insightful. Keep up the good work and good luck to you as your channel grows
🤜🤛 thanks!
Seeing this comment makes me realize I haven't subscribed
I fixed that.
@@ryuku2 ❤
It's because he didn't put the Gigachad in the thumbnail until now.
@@Charlemagne_III TRUE. If only I'd known sooner
This was an awesome watch, and it really gave me some stuff to think about. I tend to default to EDHRec and sort by synergy. I usually cut it off at 10-15%, but also price does play a factor. Magic isn't my primary hobby, so if I feel like a card is out of my price range (which is usually around the $15+ mark), I don't really go for it unless I'm able to splurge. I've had a few splurge moments, but I also build archetypal decks. My main two right now are Werewolves and Elementals - which I've taken to call Omnath Tribal just because I run a copy of every Omnath printed so far save for the 5 color one that I don't have yet. That's the "story of the deck" for me. Also I try to run as many Day/Night alt arts as possible as my way of "blinging out" my werewolves deck.
A lot of what you were saying in this video really struck a cord with me considering how much I couldn't care less about power level as much as price or synergy with the core themes and aspects of my deck, but one thing that I kept thinking about was how much HOW you play can affect WHAT you play. In a few of my more recent games from about a month or so ago, it was brought to my attention that my Werewolves deck had a fairly easy time at surviving board wipes. I would get tokens or cheap creatures out and I'd go from 0 creatures to 5 fairly beefy ones in a matter of a couple of turns. Unfortunately, my threat assessment is garbage. One game came down to me and two other players. One had 9 life and the other had over 50. My impulse said that i could take out the guy with the lowest life and then it's down to two, but the guy with the most life was 1. running a life gain deck and 2. The player with 9 life had an enchantment in play that I had honestly forgotten about that was keeping one creature removed from the game. That creature kept all creatures from attacking the life gain player and my werewolves need to be able to attack. I felt - and still feel - really bad about screwing the pooch on that game even though it was just a casual kitchen table situation.
I like being able to prove myself at the gaming table because card games are how I socialize. Throughout this whole video, I couldn't help but think there has to be some kind of assumption here when it comes to skill level or game knowledge. I'm almost positive that if I were handed something that the entire player base would consider an auto-win deck, I'd find a way to target the wrong person, spend mana inefficiently, or outright miss a trigger and the whole thing would fall apart in my hands compared to someone who knew what they were doing. This isn't a defense for infinite combos or anything like that. I'm just curious where "good cards" ends and "good players" begins? How much of the "it's not fun" pie belongs to people who know what they're doing vs people who are just playing the good cards because they are good?
@@AcePlaysTCGs thanks for watching friend, glad it resonated ❤️ You'd probably enjoy my recent videos that explore related topics 🤜🤛 in terms of your question, I would say that I'm a fairly experienced player and when I make content, I'm definitely making it for myself first and foremost, so by default I am assuming a certain level of skill and experience. I would however say the principles are arguably more important for lesser experienced players as they often fall into the traps more easily. I think cards being good is less of an issue, than cards being oppressive or causing bad play experiences. Those kinds of cards can suck even more when they are played badly than when they are played well. Lastly don't take commander too seriously and don't try to hard to appear good or prove yourself. It's fine to make mistakes and do plays that we later think we're very silly. That's how we learn. Commander should first and foremost be about the social aspect and whether or not people at the table had a good time. A lot of that's down to play group and communication, but that's a whole topic in itself 😁
@@BasedDeckDept Thank you so much for the response. I really appreciate it and I will definitely check out some of your recent videos. I really enjoyed this one and I'd love to engage with more of your content especially if it dives deeper on these topics.
I'm definitely a big fan of having fun at the gaming table. In my questioning I was definitely thinking of a particular group, so that may have influenced my line of thinking. Really looking forward to getting deeper perspectives through some of your other videos.
I'm on all your points. Took me years to arrive at those conclusions but I'm 100% behind that (except maybe the Sol Ring situation, that I believe, is a deeper problem)
Only thing I'd add : "Remember who you play with, and try to build accordingly"
Making decks to play with a specific, catered pod and building for playing with strangers at an LGS is 2 very different things.
One allows you to discuss more freely from one game night 'til the next about power level, what every one wishes for, etc.
The other bring people with varied opinions on the matter, play with them once, and maybe never see them again.
When you only have the "strangers" situation, try to be prepared :
- Take multiple decks with varied power level. Having 1 Precon, 1 Casual "Pet" deck and 1 Strong deck should cover all your needs.
You only have 1 deck ? Bring cards to swap in so that every situation is met with possible answers ! (AND PROXY THOSE, NO ONE CARES !)
- Never hesitate to not accept a game when you feel like they don't match your style. No game is better than a bad game.
They're all going cEDH and you only have an updated precon ? Wait for another group, don't waste time and effort for a bad experience.
Based points all round. Joey from EDHRec has made some great content about walking away from games, at the start, or during the game and I'm here for his sentiments about it 🔥And couldn't agree more re LGS vs friends. I play in very few LGS situations for that reason, but your point is very valid. annnnnnnd as for Sol Ring, that's a video in itself I strongly believe no card is the problem, it's people that cause the problem
Feels weird to me that the people who don’t care about proxy are strangers, but my play group is against it.
@@googloocraft12 That sounds like a conversation that needs to be had. Typically people are against proxies for bad reasons, but if the group is aligned on what kind of play experience they want, cards shouldn't be a problem
I like small magic content creators that use fun graphics. Subscribed and liked at 20 seconds, we'll see how the rest goes.
Let me know whether you made the right life choice friend
From the thumbnail I expected a very frantic video with a bunch of fake enthusiasm, but instead it's well thought out, calmly and well presented and above all else highly informative in terms of making the game fun!
Good job, you earned yourself a subscriber!
Thanks friend 🤜🤛 glad you enjoyed it. Hope you enjoy the next one 😁
I think i've found the funniest way to lose in commander. Teferi's puzzlebox, and wedding ring.
The panic in their voice as they suddenly have 3-4 turns to figure out how to stop themselves from decking themselves, and they never even get mad, because i'm decking myself just as fast, and i have a grand total of 1 artifact removal in my deck 😂
BLESSED MELEK POSTING
my casual Melek list i have in paper required 0 trading, plays a ton of cards no one has ever wanted to play (i just cut searing winds for example) and it makes them at least nearly playable or cracked.
it feels SO good to play crummy cards at a good rate, and make people go "oh, your commander says THAT?"
Haha my fellow Melek enjoyer 🤜🤛 He's so good isn't he. Agree it's incredibly fun playing all these random, yet fantastic cards for far less than they should. Whilst not a random card, I love nothing more than casting Traumatize on myself for almost no mana and turning Melek into a 25/25
@@BasedDeckDept Unfortunately for this "everyone gets to have fun :)" mentality, he's also incredibly good at theft and land destruction. And I am 100% that person. Lands have had it too good for too long, I'm coming for your ancient tombs and I'm keeping your Jin-Gitaxias
@@gammarayrjs If anyone is out here playing broken utility lands thinking they're free of persecution, may the long arm of the law, Sherriff Melek take them right to jail
I'm finding it very hard to read that font, anyone else experiencing the same??
Thanks! I am planning on changing it, as I agree
@@BasedDeckDept Thanks for responding it's nice to know you are putting in a lot of effort and overall I felt your video was quite well made keep it up. (:
@@TheChickenLord072 Thanks! Appreciate it. 🤜🤛
Incredible video! We need more people thinking about commander in this way. I want to add a few things though. I'm going to use the Kemba Kha Enduring deck I recently built for my extreme budget pod as an example (15 euro budget)
#1: Go out of your way to build archetypes in non-typical ways. (for example: looking for commanders that change things up or building it in the "wrong" colors)
Kemba is an equipment commander, which typically just means voltron. But Kemba wants you to distribute your equipment over as many cats as possible, so that you can enjoy a free equip and +1 boost. This completely changes your card choices and transforms the DNA of the deck. You want to go wide with cats and cheap equipment and you don't care for equip costs, which all plays very differently from typical equipment decks
#2: Play cards that win against cards your deck loses to.
What does a go wide deck lose against? Board clears. So I play cards that save my team, like Resistance Reunited. What else can it lose to? Decks that go taller than it and snuff it out before it can get there. So I play efficient creature removal specifically and ONLY to target things that are too big for the deck to deal with reasonably, like Valorous Stance. This results in me being to put up a fight in the face of problematic cards or decks instead of folding at the first sign of resistance
#3: Make sure your interaction/card draw fits into your decks strategy (The video already touched on this one, but I want to articulate it a bit more)
In my deck ALL of the card draw either cares for or is the form of equipment and all but 1 of my removal pieces are either also cats, equipment or protection. I also don't play a single board clear in this deck either, instead opting to use Declaration in Stone to deal with token/copy decks, which also acts as a fine removal spell outside of that. With a focused Interaction package like this I very often have access to what I need
#4: Redundancy.
Make sure you run important effects multiple times or, if you can't, play a lot of recursion. My deck plays Auriok Windwalker, Brass Squire and the horribly expensive Puresteel Paladin for the times when my commander isn't around, since I always need access to a way to get around the high equip costs of my things. I also play effects like One Last Job to make sure they stick around
#5: Most importantly of all: build on a budget. At least once.
It naturally nudges you to include cards you'd normally never consider and exclude staple cards because of their price tag. You definitely don't have to go as extreme with it as me, but limiting yourself to something like 50 euro is already plenty
Again, great video. Love your stuff!
Thanks friend, glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛 and a big fan of all your additions. It's no surprise there are a bunch of budget brews on my channel relating to #5 😁 hope you enjoy the next one equally as much
Puresteel Paladin is a buck fifty and costs 2 mana. I can’t imagine a context in which it is horribly expensive.
@@doylerudolph7965 the cheepest one I found was 1.20 Euro. That's a shit ton when you're only working with 15
Love kemba. I got my face smashed in once many many moons ago by a particularly scary kitty deck. I built her with less of a budget mindset and more of a get the best cats that dont cost tooooo much (no balan, wandering knight) and give them all swords. And protection. I gave it to a friend who stopped listening after i said "cats". He pulled out the God Hand. Some kitties, enough lands, and Colossus Hammer. He had a 12/12 on turn 3. My gf and her sister look at me immediately with a "what did you build? What did you do? You did this. You made this. This is on you." I just started grinning and saying okay okay but play it again and that wont happen😂
On the mono white theme, how about Lightpaws and some BOGO of some of the best auras
I have a $50 Jasper Flint deck that I pull out sometimes, and every time I do, I end up saying to someone "If you didn't want to lose to X, you shouldn't have put it in your deck." Most recently X was Ghalta, Primal Hunger which I played as a massive blocker to wall out the dino deck from killing me. My personal favorite was when I reanimated an Atla Palani player's Void Winnower, who had a bit of a tantrum about how he couldn't play the game anymore before ragequitting a couple turns later. It's an interesting thing to watch, how unpleasant people realize their cards are when suddenly someone else is playing them instead. I don't pull this deck out very often anymore, I initially built it to play against newer players to match the power level of the table, which it never really does.
You are the hero we deserve 🤜🤛 And couldn't agree more that it's always the people who play the worst cards, in the worst faith, that complain the loudest when the shoe is on the other foot. Keep up the good work soldier
I've been workshopping a copy deck for the same reason. I don't really want to take people cards (respect that you do!) but playing other people's cards as a way to show them what they do.
Also, the copy character in any fanstasy/anime is my favorite almost everytime
Mind sharing the deck?
I may build a Teneb deck simply for this reason.
Very Cool, i may make one of these. I rebuilt the Gonti Precon with a lot of evasion and ramp, and it does something similar
Love your videos. Please keep it up. I follow a lot of magic TH-camrs but you always have something unique and interesting to get my wheels turning.
🤜🤛 thanks friend, glad you enjoyed it.
Thanx for this video, you found the essence of commander. As I'm building a playgroup, I struggled a lot with the notion of competitivity and the need of winning. I like your vision of playing less powerful in order to play with more fun.
Thanks for watching If you haven't already watched my video on building a playgroup (make more friends) 100% do that, it's literally all about that topic of building playgroups. I think you'll enjoy it
Planning on making my first commander deck soon! This helped a ton!
Glad I could help ❤️ thanks for watching 🤜🤛
It always seems easier to build a strong deck than a fun deck. More videos like this would be awesome!
Yeah I can probably do a whole video on the development over time of dynamics of a play group and how that affects decks going strong vs interesting. Glad you enjoyed this, and thanks for watching! Share it far and wide to get your friends and play groups to build based decks
I think this video is great! And I find my decks have moved towards your philosophy over the years, as it generates better games.
Though I think your 6th principle (build focused decks) counteracts your first principle (seek novelty). At the extreme end: If your deck does the same thing every game, it will lose novelty very quickly. This is why pre-con decks tend to have 2-3 gameplans within them. While bad for power level reasons, having multiple gameplans is a great way to force you to play creatively (principle #2) and increase novelty (principle #1).
Thanks for watching friend I would say my view is simply that rather than having a deck with 2-3 game plans, I just have 2-3 decks. Same principle overall though
I relatively recently had to teach one of my friends to play commander, who had never played MTG. I built what I *thought* was a simple ramp deck, only to realize while we were actually playing, how difficult the deck was for a casual. Things that made the deck better and that I thought were relatively simple like tutors, searching the top X cards, shuffling the deck, counters, and other things, proved to be pretty difficult for a beginner to handle.
I've since made a lot of revisions to said deck and some of my other commander decks, with specific emphasis on simplicity for a casual player who doesn't even know what cards are in the deck. Using a tutor is easy if you know what to get, but overwhelming if you don't, so those had to go. Choosing what card to take from the top X can take a long time if you have to read every card, easily replaced with simple "Draw a card" options instead. Shuffling a large deck for a beginner can be unwieldy, so bye bye to cards that required shuffling.
After making a lot of these changes and testing the deck, I started to realize that not only was the deck simpler, it was also more fun to play. If previously my play pattern was to use my commander to get a tutor so that I can get a specific card, what was the point of playing a 100-card format if I was just going to do the same play pattern every time. Now that the deck was more random, it was waaay more fun to play with and as. I subsequently went back to a lot of my other decks, and made equivalent changes to them.
A lot of the points you made in the video are thoughts I also had while editing these decks, for example the concept of still making the deck "Good", even if it isn't "Optimal". A simpler more random deck is fun, but getting to do things is also fun, so the deck can't just suck or we're back in the no-fun zone again.
I think somewhere along the way of optimizing decks I had forgotten the original point of Commander, which is to have fun. Deckbuilding is a lot more interesting as well when you try to come up with unused or unusual options for staple cards that you've used before.
Tldr, I liked your video.
Fantastic thoughts friend, and appreciate you watching. It's also ironic as yesterday I had the idea to maybe do a video about how to best teach / onboard our friends into commander, and how we as more experienced players can make their experience as good as possible. This definitely adds to that thought process!
It sure took a while for somebody to actually make a Commander guide that isn’t just “this place is a warzone or boring with no inbetween”, but I’m glad it exists. You can teach a grade schooler how to play Magic well, but you finally, finally got me to stop thinking about all Aggro all the time in this format. I’ve only seen the big names show signs of life like this when, well, live and unscripted.
It doesn’t cover everything, but it covers what it has to if you want to enjoy the format as it is, not as you want it
Really nice video that wants to keep the spirit of the format going, I would say though I do very much enjoy playing very high power decks with the few mates down for that, remember people, enjoy the game however you want! Everything has its time and place somewhere, from vanilla tribal decks to cedh lists!
Thanks friend, appreciate you watching! Definitely nothing wrong with higher power decks. It is actually my preferred end of the spectrum having come from playing competitive predominantly competitive magic, but more casual play widens the pool of people I can play with, hence my exploration and appreciation of what commander is meant to be. Mirroring what you're saying one can have all the fun, social hijinx of commander playing the most cracked cardboard there is. It's the people, not the cardboard that make the game. The joy of commander is truly that it can be anything to anyone, provided the 4 people sitting down are aligned in what kind of experience they want to have
I appreciate this video for how similar an approach to deck building and game philosophy. It's part of what got me to pick up Rielle the Everwise after playing about a month of Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. I wanted to draw lots of cards but I also wanted quicker turns so opponents wouldn't get too bored or frustrated. Turns out, she's really quite good to play. Built in power ramping so you can dome someone for lethal commander damage in one to two hits, unique draw mechanic which capitalizes on Izzet's plethora of looting/rummaging, and discard as an additional cost spells/abilities. This lets you turn something like Rites of Refusal into a Counterspell that is also a Tolarian Winds.
You managed to completely articulate my exact thoughts about deck building far better than I ever could.
Glad it resonated
i support the idea that one should build a deck that is fun to play against and that the better games people have are those that are interesting rather than those that they win. whe it think is important to point out though is that a great story is born is stuggle. commander games are no different. the secret to an interesting game is not what decks you play and specifically having a deck that is interesting and unique. it is about playing to succeed while removing the attachment the game has to your self worth (a big problem in tcg games for some reason) and being satisfied with a loss provided it was an interesting game. i prefer playing a more optimzed deck and like including good staples where i can. this does not mean that i need a demonic tutor in every one of my black decks, and trust me i know it is boring to lose to the same combo every time. but when a win comes in an unexpected way that is satisfying. i honestly think we all need to work on our social skills more and learn that games where we are proud to be obliterated by a hamster that hits as hard as saitama from one punch man and congratulate the opponent sincerely will lead to far more fun in a game. (and yes i have lost to the same boo hamster deck many times as getting hitt witha 30/30 trample with hast tends to take me out pretty quickly.)
if i had to critique the video in any way i would say try to remove the "based" component from it. in truth there is no deck that is more "giga-chad" than another, and using that lingo and those kind of jokes is more off putting imo that funny. just my own thoughts though
Thanks for the input. Love the sentiment re social skills, as that's where 99% of the problems in commander come from. As for based feedback, that's a bit of a challenge given my channel name but in context of the video, it seemed fitting for the thumbnail more so than anything else 👍
@@BasedDeckDept i did consider that. the video was insightful and i hope you cnotinue to get more traction with your channel
@@Ghost-Toast819 Thanks again for the input, and for watching! It's always appreciated
Excellent video. Your point about ‘what does your deck want to do, and how many cards do all of them’ is especially potent
Thanks for watching friend, glad you enjoyed it
Haven’t watched this yet, but I’m very excited to as this is my most important thing to consider during deck building
As a new player this was a very insightful video, with the added bonus that you introduced some fun cards to me, I’d love to see more “Fun Deck” MTG videos!
Glad you enjoyed it friend Definitely go watch some of my budget brew videos. LOTS of interesting and fun cards in there
Great video and that's not just cuz I share almost the exact same deckbuilding philosophy, lol. You've earned a sub, good sir.
🤝 Glad you enjoyed it friend. Hope you enjoy the next one
@@BasedDeckDept for sure!
Agree with all your points. I like to think of my deck as a story telling device. I’ve had many people at my LGS and conventions all tell me stories of something cool that happened in their games. I wanna enable more stories to be told. An unexpected card,a well timed gotcha…I want everyone to leave the game happy and talking about fun moments
Glad you enjoyed it, and yeah, we're on the same page. Thanks for watching friend 🤜🤛
Insanely well tought out and executed video, great work man. I really adore your philosophy of deck building and playing edh as a whole. i find often myself searching for cards that are explicitly powerful and make my deck strong, but for decks with very weird or cool types of interaction. for example i love my mazzy deck, were a briar shield turns into a stupidly good card. and of course, i could look such cards up at edhrec or other sources, but i found that card while looking through a friends old mtg collection, and that just feels awesome.
keep up the great work!
i just wanted to say i really like the style and pacing of this video, it is very nice to look at and listen to
@@vinz4015 Thanks friend. Glad you enjoyed it! 🤜🤛A lot of the magic of commander is finding people that share a similar philosophy about how to play, or what they want out of a game. Finding great cards that are a 10/10 in a very specific deck, and getting to hare that experience with others is such a good time.
Absolutely loved this video. I like your insights and can't agree more. You definitely deserve more views. Please keep creating amazing content!
🤜🤛 Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the kind words. Hope you enjoy the next one in about a week
Big agree about EDHRrec. It has a tendency to make every deck very same-y.
Build with
1) companions
2) friends with
3) adventures
4) dungeons
5) loops that result in draw everytime
Got it 👏🏽
I really like these tips! I've sent it to my regular group, I think they'll agree.
Thanks friend, glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛 and hope your play group does too!
The idea of using flexible cards really spoke to me. Aside from Beast Within and Generous Gift, I also use cards like Divide by Zero, Oblation, and Supreme Will. I tend to value flexibility over efficiency, which is why I'd never run something like Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares. Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 Playing flexible cards is such an important concept. Glad it resonated with you! Don't sleep on Path to Exile though. In the right deck you can exile your own token or a creature that you want to die and ramp a land. Rampant Growth for a single white mana isn't bad and pretty flexible
I prefer decks that make my opponents want to quit Magic after they win, personally.
Right to jail 🤣 and thanks for watching 🤛🤜
@marginis Hard agree 😂😂
#4 is the reason i play cedh. I'm playing against other people, not just trying to do my thing faster than everyone else
I definitely scry hard when using scryfall. It's how I found out the fun Guided Passage!
Guided passage is one of those cards that feels like such a treat to discover in a deckbuilding adventure
Great video! Turns out I love deck building more than I love playing the game itself! Only been in the hobby for 3 years or so.
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 And yeah I'm in the same boat. It's actually why I made this channel and why I started with deck brews. Building decks and talking about building decks is what I enjoy most about MTG, and playing commander to me is literally social fun + deck testing
This is why I love to play group hug decks. Doing stuff like “oh, everyone draw some cards!” or, “oh, I gave the land I have to pass around to it her players more mana generation, be kind and pass it to the right, won’t you?” As much fun as it is taking a 15 minute turn via Dockside and winning with 120 Niv-Mizzet Parun triggers, passing around a land that taps for 3 of any color or making everyone draw 3 cards each turn is enjoyable every time.
Thanks for watching ❤️ agree re group hug. It often feels like it accelerates games as opposed to slows them (provided the group hug player isn't planning on resetting the game every few turns)
Well I think my playgroup doesn’t agree, I give a lot of card draw to everyone and the only thing I get in return is more removal into my face. I guess they prefer discarding XD.
Boomerang mention! It's so good and everyone tells me to cut it 😭
Thank you for this video!
Glad you enjoyed it Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 Boomerang is an OG, how dare they! To be fair there are so many good bounce spells now that it is power crept out a little, but hey, if it works, it's still an incredible and versatile card.
This video changed my perspective on the game. Before I used to play to win. But now, I realize that the game can be fun wothout having to win.
My man 🤜🤛 Glad you found it helpful! What was the main thing that changed your perspective? And thanks for watching ❤️
I agree with the general sentiment in the comments- your channel is amazing and CRIMINALLY undersubscribed. Your videos are fantastic my dude.
Thank you friend. Glad you enjoyed it. There will be more where that came from 🤜🤛 Based gang rise up.
I experienced a bit of this with my Ghyrson Starn deck. I hadn't played in years, and wanted to get back in with that deck, and I didn't realize how strong/popular of a commander he was. However, I did intentionally go with the weaker variant of his deck (the Izzet spellslinging variant) because I wanted to go all-in on being a "wizard cowboy". Partly because of inexperience, I accidentally put several combos in the deck, but the deck isn't built around them, they only exist because the individual cards are just good in the deck (combo-ing Niv-Mizzet with Tandem Lookout and Ghyrson, for example). Even with those combos in the deck, it's a fun time to play and play against (as far as I can tell and have been told) because the deck isn't built to get the combo pieces out, and I make it clear when we set up that they're in there, but the deck isn't built around them, so when the combos do go off it's less of a "god dammit the combo player is going again" and more "oh SHIT the combo went off!"
Alternatively it also works with my favorite deck: Chandra Tribal. It's a little more "mono red superfriends" now, but I built a deck with (currently) 11 Chandra planeswalkers, 2 Koths, and 2 Jayas, with Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh as the commander because planeswalkers are my favorite card type, and Chandra is my favorite planeswalker, so why not? It's a deck without a ton of a super-concrete gameplan beyond "play planeswalkers and cast spells until you win and/or lose", but it leads to a very fun, freeform table where for me I get to try and adapt between casting spells, using planeswalker abilities, and even within that deciding whether to focus on the utility of + and - abilities or trying to mainline it for the emblem abilities, and then waiting for the great moments like one game where I managed to get Chandra, Dressed to Kill's emblem off twice at once, or killing the table with a damage-doubled Prisoner's Dilemma (my favorite card in all of Magic).
This is part of why me and my friend like to build decks in tandem - sometimes we end up with decks that specifically have really fun games when played against each other specifically. My buddy loved playing Kardur Doomscourge, but I hated playing against it with my Chandra planeswalker-focused deck, but when I swapped to my Tyranid deck or my mono green Eladamri deck where being goaded isn't as annoying. He also retooled the Kardur deck after a while, going from a Gladiator Joaquin Phoenix RP Server to an "I'm Joining the War on War on the Side of War" arms dealer deck where he hands out cards and buffs and then tells people to fight. The second one is FAR more fun to play against. It gave me 22 0/1 goats once. It was a good time.
Both sound like a good time. Thanks for watching 🤜🤛
Great video and concept, it gave me a lot to think about. Liked and subbed 😊
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching friend
For me, the thing with powerful staples is, I don't want to win because I played Gaea's Cradle, or Sol Ring, or The One Ring. If I won, I want it to be because my bunny commander made a bunch of bunnies, or my tricky card-filtering commander assembled the pieces for an unlikely gamewinning contraption. If I spend 15 mana and draw four cards while developing the biggest board on turn 5, I don't really feel like the cards I play are making much of a difference at that point. Just about any win condition works if it's amped up with enough juice. I am a player who craves novelty, so I always make sure that's something I'm contributing at the table.
Novelty gang rise up Thanks for watching friend
Love to see list of unique cards or commands. Or even most mischief cards.
I strongly agree with your philosophy here and wouldn't really object to everyone following these rules. One point I would add (or more likely it's a sub-point within your philosophy) is don't be afraid to experiment. This kinda flies in the face of building focused decks at times, but when you aren't sure what you want to do with a deck, start broad and see what you like and how it plays out. Even as your decks get more focused, when you find a card you like don't be afraid to plug it in somewhere and make edits. Try it in a couple decks and see where you want it. This kinda fits into your deck building adventure.
Also, I don't think Sol Ring needs to be banned, but I'm fine with leaving it out of decks. It is probably still in most of my decks, because it is fun to get a bit of a fast start from time to time, but there are several decks that skip on it. The way I see Sol Ring play out when it's the only fast mana piece is that it paints you as the target for everyone else until someone better should arise. So getting a head start against 3 other opponents who will focus more on you isn't as helpful as people tend to think. Especially if they play with interaction of all kinds (like you said, not just removal) to keep the game interesting. Everybody wants a chance for their deck to hum and "do the thing," so if your fast start is coupled with an instant win combo, that's a problem, but if you're trying to play aggro/Voltron, you could really use the help.
Pass the videoooooo!! I'm tired of my friends copy pasting edhrec pages :S. Great channel, i'll catch up with all the videos!
Haha, nothing wrong with them pasting EDHRec pages, although I'm guessing it's the power of those lists that may be the problem? Thanks for watching
I mostly use EDHRec for, well the thing it's named for, recommendations for EDH Commanders, found some cool synergies with it
My first deck that I owned is Kolaghan, The Storm's Fury, and so far it's been pretty popular in my low power environment since casting big dragons that swing out for big damage is both fun and interactive when compared to the flood of value engines in the Command Zone
Armix, Filigree Thrasher & Rebbec, Architect of Ascension (Orzhov Artifact Aggro) has also garnered respect and admiration for finding strange cards and making them work, as that deck is made of cards I pulled from packs only
Of all the dragons, Kolaghan is surely one of the safest 🤜🤛 and I love decks that effectively make trash into treasure. Big fan
That massacre wurm comment hitting a little too close to home… Great video!
Live by the wurm die by the wurm glad you enjoyed it friend
Hoyl hells, its neat to see another person taking the base philosophy of commander back into focus.
I am arguing so much with my playgroup, why I use the more complicated to use/ not best in slot cards for my decks.
Or try to argue why I want a good game, not a win per se. Great video!
/edit: also looking through scryfall for suiting cards is super fun. I just love that site.
Thanks for watching friend, glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛 Time to send this video to your play group to grow the based department I feel your pain. I'm very lucky with my playgroup, though we've gone through our own developments which is a video in itself I think. And re philosophy, given the recent announcements and vitriol aimed at the RC, it's more important than ever that where we can, we remind people this is supposed to be the fun, social format about connecting with people. There are tons of formats focused on winning.
10:50 -- don't need to worry about not adding dockside, lotus or nadu ever again hoho
Thanks RC! Oh wait....
The second point in the video is a great way to sum up why my brother’s Delina, Wild Mage deck has Calamity Bearer in it.
Love that, and thanks for watching
I subscribe to the idea that first and foremost the defining trait of each deck is the commander. Thus almost every card should in some way or form synergyze with it. Unfortunately that means that the power level depends heavily on the chosen commander and as soon as I've had one pop-off game my co-players are on the safer side if they preferably remove it.
The decks where there are the most: "oh that's a really fun idea"-moments are things like etrata deadly fugitive, where almost all removal puts things on top of their owners libraries to be stolen by her trigger and played by me in turn.
But then there is my sacrifice deck around Carmen Cruel Skymarcher that can go the aristocrats route or the mass removal route. That can really annoy some people, especially if their deck doesn't have the means to create multiple creatures in a turn and they feel locked out of the game. It's really tough to make a (midrange) deck that feels strong enough without it being overwhelming. The same goes for combo decks. There is a reason I've retired a lot more decks than I currently have right now.
Thanks for watching (and commenting) friend Yeah l am very similar to you in the way that I like to build. I love taking a commander that interests me, and going all in on maximizing their abilities and the themes that plays into.
This video uses very cute images and has a good message :)
Glad you enjoyed it Thanks for watching 🤜🤛
I just got the Eldrazi incursion precon as a get well soon gift and would love to see a video on your zhulodok deck!
I'll do that at some point, but for now, here's my deck list. It's accurate for the most part, and comes with the warning that I only play it in the right pod as it's filed with crime www.moxfield.com/decks/_Lb299ogFkacLKwBvk0beQ 🤜🤛
Instructions unclear. Built a Yuriko deck with all the unique ninja and high CMC/alt casting synergies. Got called a cEDH player.
That slide at 11:00 aged well 😂
Great video btw, I really enjoy your content ❤
Hahahaha I know right. Thanks for watching 🤜🤛
This video is the truth. I always had the mentality of building decks i wouldnt hate losing to. Its not about the win its about the journey to get there. Id rather lose but have a great match where we all were doing things than win a game where i steam rolled the table. I could have made my illuna into a lab man or oracle deck...but mutate voltron is so much more fun. Sure i could have built a typical gitrog cantrip deck....but putting it in the 99 of a glarb frog tribal deck seems like the right choice😂
Glad you enjoyed it
I built a Flubs, The Fool deck and I adore it. Filled it with pet cards and group hug cards and political cards. Mini game cards too like Custody Battle. He's a commander that really allows you to fill a deck with whatever you want
I made it about 70% through a video on Flubs but was unhappy with the build and what I was doing. Glad you found more success with him!
I so agree with this video. I love to play janky gimmicks or themed decks, with weird inclusions that people might not expect like a single ninjutsu card or a single foretell card that'll throw everyone for a loop. My favorite card in this sense is Shifting Grift, which I use to swap two of my opponents' creatures to either kill synergies or to favor someone who might be behind.
Commander is at its best when it's weird and people are playing tacky cards. If I wanted to see everyone playing fast mana, the same 3 board wipes or removal, and cards that draw through half their deck in one turn, I'd go play another format.
Love this sentiment as long as the wackiness synergizes with what I'm doing 😁 also a big fan of cards that swap creatures. My favourite is modify memory. Gets you 3 cards in the process 😁
I happen to have "Pull from Eternity". I basically never play atm, but I really do want to have that in a deck, because of the weird things you can do with it :D
Of course, you can return something that was exiled to your graveyard. But I think removing something from exile that someone put there purposefully, or helping another player out, would be really funny if it happened to fit.
I really like cards that have unusual effects like this, and another good example is Lapse of Certainty, which is unusual for the color it's in. I have never seen either in any video, so I am looking forward to using them, and wanted to bring them up, in case you were unaware of their existence ;)
Thanks for watching friend ❤️ lapse of certainty is cool. Basically a white memory lapse. As for pull from eternity, I imagine that would be great against impulse draw decks 😅
Some of my favorite commander exclusive legends in recent years were the exclusive ones in Capenna! Those decks were very silly anyway considering the mechanics they decided to focus on(typically being lots of group interaction, even if Tivit has sort of ran away with that idea). But Vazi, Keen Negotiator might genuinely be one of my favorite casual decks and works both as a “kingmaker” deck and a group slug deck all at once.
I’m always reminded of a game where it came down to myself and another player and a 12 counter Descent into Avernus trigger would have killed us both and left the game in a draw. And then he countered the trigger on the stack and killed me 😂 the whole store collectively booed him for ruining the fun and we still joke about it from time to time
To add, while I’m sad about the loss of Dockside for my mono Red cEDH deck, I think losing it for Vazi is the biggest gutpunch 😭 it was the easiest way to make a ton of treasures and hand them to other people while giving me an option to win later in the game if it drags on
You sound like you'd fit into my playgroup 😁 we often talk about how underrated and how much of a banger new capenna is. Descent into Avernus is also a very loved card in the same way. Thanks for watching friend, glad you found this video 🤜🤛
"Damn that's cool" has been Marina Vendrell for me lately, from the Duskmourn set. Just spending my game unlocking, locking, and re-unlocking doors for their wild effects with 44+ enchantments in the deck Marina can hit for her ETB has been hilariously good fun.
That sounds like a very unique play experience. Big fan
I'm really interested in rooms, but I'd be worried that this deck might feel a little solitairey. Does it feel like you have ample opportunities to interact with the board?
That frog cartoon was so cute tho :3
IKR! Thanks for watching 🤜🤛
I've always found it fun to make a deck that has an inherent flaw to it, like my latest creation Emry, Lurker of the Loch that is only swords, stones, knights and water themes. Figured it worked with the whole "Lady of the Lake" style art on the card. Is it the most tuned artifact draw Emry deck? No, but I do get to play things like Lodestone Bauble which would never see play for any reason otherwise. Or Dark Sphere because it at least looks like a stone.
Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 This is the exact novelty I meant. One does have to balance power a bit, or play decks like that into similarly powered decks, but love the sentiment.
I love building decks that is are all about funny things like Bernard ginger sculptor and Ygra. However since I can't have them as the commanders, I have to find commanders that either benefit me or just have the colors. I'm currently thinking about how I'm going to build a Wick the whorled mind deck. My current pet deck is Denry Klin editor in chief. I recently built a five color vehicle deck. I love building crazy gimmick decks
Love this. You are the person commander is perfect for as a format ❤
Nice! Who's your five-color vehicle commander(s)? Bet you'll get some major new tech on the next mainline "death race" set.
@@gpwaltz I ran Kyodai for the flash indestructible feature. I bought a Ramos but I never really played the commander aside from niche circumstances. I'm actually excited for more vehicles and hopefully more cards for a faster deck
@@gpwaltz that is surprisingly an archetype I have yet to touch. I'll have a think 🤔
@@BasedDeckDept don't forget the mount mechanic that started in thunder junction that probably won't get any more attention not for a while at least
I find that building with limitations also helps a lot with making the deck building process more fun, and can create moments in games that are truly legendary. I was running my 5 color pure spellslinger deck, and an opponent running Lonis looked at my empty board and assumed that I've been having the worst draws and most of my good creatures are still in my library. They used up like 20 clues trying to look for creature, and found nothing but lands, instants, and sorceries.
Love that. Yeah I think limitations are great. Like my Simon Wild Magic Sorcerer deck where every instant or sorcery has to be 3cc or above. It's obviously tied mechanically to him, but it's more fun that way than running mana drain.etc.
An analogy I use is, when you sit down to watch an epic movie you don't want to get a sitcom, or especially a tiktok video. On the topic of challenge i see it like a video game, the first time you play it it's ok to play on easy mode, but the real challenge is to beat it on legendary mode. To do this things like using sub rate generals and by cutting tutors/staples. One thing you mentioned was being hyper focused on theme and I don't agree, one thing I tell newer players is to have verrying archetypes spread across the color spectrum but imo the decks i play the most are rather generic in theme because they are the most easily tweaked through time and feel the freshest. but yes play fun flexible cards and you will have fun varying games. And don't forget your grave hate kids🙃
I agree that Commander is a social game first, and people who only try to win miss much of the enjoyment; however, I will always run Sol Ring. That high of going Sol Ring, Arcane Signet turn 1 is godly. Does it make me a target? Sure, but god damn, it feels good.
And luckily there's nothing stopping you from doing so
Turn one Sol Ring makes for a very good early game twist, throwing a curveball at every other player who didn't have one in their opening hand, keeping things interesting
As long as you and your playgroup are as happy getting Sol Ringed as you are doing the Sol Ringing I have no beef 🤣 thanks for watching friend ❤️
@@BasedDeckDept It rarely wins any of us the game, it's all about how you respond to the Sol Ring coming out in the following turns that determines whether or not they run away with the game. I ramp like crazy with or without Sol Ring (green player here) so it doesn't matter to me, but for players outside of green, Sol Ring is a great way to avoid getting mana screwed or left behind by other players that have ramp
My friend group has all had sol rings due to the whole idea that everyone runs it. But we all agreed for a group rule of sol ring entering tapped
Damn, Melek looks really fun. Might be the next commander I build lmao
Traumatizing myself is one of the best feeling plays. So fun. Thanks for watching!
Video included frog 10/10 will recommend
Thanks friend, glad you enjoyed it. There's more frog in my most recent video about finding a perfect playgroup 😁🐸
I wish more people could understand this concept, I’ve stepped away from commander and have gotten into standard due to everyone wanting to pub stomp, which has lead me to adopt that attitude in turn so I decided it’s time for some change.
That is why I made this video, so that hopefully it can affect some change and make those that are a product of their environment change and in turn change that environment with them. Thanks for watching ❤️
New mspaint-tuber just dropped. Now with frogs!!
You'll have to tell me whether that's a good thing or not Thanks for watching
@@BasedDeckDept I like frogs 🐸
@@DarkJusticeMetal Based
this isnt thaaat related to the vid but i have format i wanted to share: "collector" its kinda a slower form of draft: basically if you enter into it you start by choosing the colors u wanna play and then you get a completely random singleton 40 card deck with cards of that color (and some random artifacts too if you opt into that) then every match you get to open a "booster" (its not an actual booster its 4-5 random cards in the same card sleeve you open that was prepped beforehand) these new cards are added to your "trash pile" and you may swap the ones in your trash pile with ones in your deck or trade them with other players (basic lands are not included, you can just add or remove them however you want and you may also add 3 shocklands the same way, these guerentied cards dont go into the trash pile if you swap them out with non-basic lands you got from a booster) once your trash pile has 65+ cards in it you may not get new boosters from matches until you "lock in" a deck meaning the deck you've been building up with the cards you got may no longer be edited and is added to the list of locked in decks you can play against each other and then you build a new deck out of the 65 cards still in your trash pile, then you may also still keep 5 cards from the trash pile and the rest goes back into the random card pool for anyone to get in the "boosters" and the cycle repeats.
as an example: I first started out with a Colorless artifact deck since i thought choosing colorless as my deck color was clever but the deck was rly bad but then i got a library of alexandria and dark ritual in the random packs which helped alot and then later i looked through the trash pile and relized i had alot of izzet instant synergy/copy stuff so by the time i had 65 cards it ended up being a grixis control deck that wins most of the time via lava axe imprinted on panoptic mirror while also having an ensnaring bridge or getting a cityscape leveler and/or valgavoth, harrower of souls with dark ritual + ebon stronghold sac waaaaay before your supposed to and run away with the value from there. but just like i improved my deck from the bad starting deck so did my friends so it stays balanced (though the grixis deck is still considered to be the best one but its also so far the only one that got locked in since i play more then my friends so hardly suprising)
I think playing like this helps with the problem of only picking the best meta cards over and over cuz if you dont get in your boosters, though luck but at the same time if you do get a rly good card like sol ring (which another friend actually did already) then it doesnt instantly win you the game cuz you only have 1 of it and cant build your intire deck around it cuz of your limited card resources and the deck building process becomes alot more enjoyable when you dont have to consider 1000+ cards at all times and get decision fatigued
Thanks for watching friend I think that's a very interesting idea as well. I've seen similar ideas with a cube. Each game someone opens a pack and chooses a card to the ever growing cube. Love it.
@@BasedDeckDept ye its great, btw after i locked in the grixis deck my deck is very bad again naturally but it does have infinte reflection + animar which could lead to some funny ramp lol
Ah, a kindred soul. If only more people were approaching commander like this.
Among my most prescious memories playing commander was when I named the guy after me in turn order my "friend" with Khorvath's Fury the turn after he cast Behold the Beyond.
Thanks for watching friend, glad it resonated As for that interaction, truly wonderful. It's moments like that that make commander worthwhile
@@BasedDeckDept No problem :)
That game was full of moments (it was 5 years ago but I still keep comming back to it): It was a 3 hour five player FFA: Me running K&T politics, next in TO: grixis Marchesa; UR chaos; Teysa Karlov; and Ramos.
Chaos player wipes with Blasphemous Act, teysa player has a Divine Visitation. I managed to ramp hard so I go Hunted Troll (giving the tokens to the teysa player), Skullwinder (choosing the chaos guy to get back Act) and still having G open for regen :D "I don't know what you don't like, I'm giving you angels." -"NOT LIKE THIS!" -"Ungrateful 🙃"
Later chaos player "Lets have some *fun*" deploys Mind's Dilation. Me failing to contain my giggles "Oh you have no idea" as I show the marchesa player the Fractured Identity in my hand. To which the teysa player goes "I don't like what you're planning" and he himself destroys the enchantment.
I will never forget when my buddy had one life left, and my other buddy had forbidden orchard and suture priest out.
He tapped the Orchard and won by giving his opponent a 1/1 spirit that triggered surure priest when it entered lol
fantastic! shared, liked and subscribed!
10/10 content and editing
@@MerlorMerlor Thanks friend 🤜🤛 Glad you enjoyed it
This is how I build my decks, except I only use cards I got at home. So it makes me become even more inventive in what to include. It's fun and makes me appreciate my decks more than slap a staple bundle into every deck. There are tons of underplayed cards that needs a home!
I can also recommend reducing board wipes and add more "I'm gonna eff you all up" cards as it speeds up games and makes them explosive. I, and many others groan when games takes a long time after 3-4 board wipes. Rather having a couple faster epic action games than slug fests.
Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 the board wipe point is a fantastic one and I should have mentioned it. I've advocated for less board wipes for ages and my play group thankfully agrees
@@BasedDeckDept yeah and also of you instead of board wipes, include board protection, you can anticipate a wipe and come out swinging like a mad champ haha.
I have a deck I'm improving upon that does a weird strategy for burn. Its a Vial Smasher burn ping deck. A large amount of my enchants/creatures hits you for 1 or 2 damage whenever you do something. But combine this with damage multipliers and suddenly everything you do hits you for 3, 4 damage, 4-7 times a turn. Its a real nasty burn deck that kinda bypasses the whole 120 HP issue since it triggers on everyone, INCLUDING yourself. The saving grace being a few cards like Vial Smasher that only hit the enemy to keep you ahead of their life totals. I've been told this is a PL7 in its current iteration and in theory I might be able to push it to PL8 if I can find ways to optimize it further.
My current favorite deck to play is my upgraded Bumbleflower precon.
And when I say upgraded, I don't mean that I added ways to negate my gifts...
I added far *more* friendly effects, more counters to players, more cards, more politics.
I love playing it and people seem to like playing against it!
Based Ironically after a similar comment yesterday I'm now working on a deck that I have currently titled "Fast and Furious" where the literal only focus is accelerating everyone elses game plans. If I have any win conditions, they'll be intended as slow bonuses, like the Millennium Calendar.
Omg yay I've been on the Sol Ring hate train for a couple years now. It's so hard to convince people that Sol Ring just makes less interesting games, less interesting decks. There's an addiction to this stupid little card. I've also taken it out of my decks. Was really freeing.
Anyway, good stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it, and yeah, it's like trying to get your friends to quit drugs. Send them this video in the hopes they soak it in
I agree that commander isn't necessarily competitive in nature like all the other formats within mtg. But also it's the format with the most diversity and I think that's a good thing. Commander can be what you described in the early part of the video to some. And it can be what cedh is to others. I think that's all fine as long as we communicate with one another about what commander is to us and we all have a good understanding of each other's perspectives going into a game.
Couldn't agree more. Everything to everyone as long as people communicate and are on the same page. The only catch there is bad actors, but there's no mechanical solution for that. Thanks for watching friend
I agree with most of your thoughts, I sont have many copies of powerfull cards and with my 18+ decks I have to chose which cards fits which deck. But I do play those powerfull cards just not all in a few decks rather than a few in each deck. This makes my decks a little bit more powerfull but doesnt make it unfun. Also I have a playgroup which will tell you if a card or a deck is not fun and will attack you first if you keep playing it.
Thanks for watching 🤜🤛 and it sounds like your playgroup passes the vibe check 😁
I actually think it is cool to have a FEW signature cards / pet cards that make it into several decks where they thematically fit. Just make sure they aren't boring staples, but cards you like and seemingly no one else likes (enough to play them). Some pet cards of mine are Felidar Retreat, Arwen Mortal Queen, Rancor/Audacity, Embercleave...
Thanks for watching Yeah I have no issue with pet cards, provided they actively do something cool in the deck one is playing and add to the synergy rather than detract from it
@@BasedDeckDept Yes of course they should also fit the deck, however I like to put them in even if they might not make the cut if you just put in the X most synergistic cards. For example I run Felidar Retreat in Duskana, because it makes 2/2s; in Atraxa +1/+1 counters, because it can give everything counters and enable the whole board for the commander; in a Susan Foreman Landramp Battlecruiser, because it creates a lot of blockers; in Arahbo because it makes Cats; and in Karametra Enchantress because it is an enchantment and also I get decent landfall there.
But it is a pet card simply because I love cats and like the artwork!
Great video with emphasys on "fun of a process" instead of "fun of winning". Although I would recommend to change the font of the text in the video as this one is too cursive-heavy to comfortably and quickly read during the video.
Thanks for watching And yeah I'll be changing the font in my next video. You can already see the thumbnails have all been changed to a new heading font. Appreciate the input
🤜🤛
Great video, but there is one problem that got me so many times - if you build interesting deck with not so flashy/unussual cards, there is always one guy that lie about his power lvl deck and fuk whole table with "good" cards. Just be sure that whole table is on the same page if you want play slower, more casual game.
Yeah this very much relies on playing with good people.
A thing I have been doing lately is when i find a commander i want to build, i first build the deck with cards i already have. I just grab my bulk boxes that i have built up from draft games, and pick out more cards than i need, and then cut down to 100 cards. This makes decks that are more unique, because i am just going with what i have, not whats is optimal. it saves money, and makes decks that are closer to precon power levels. Then if i like the deck i will slowly buy cards to put in to make it better, but try to keep some of the weird cards in. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone if you don't have bulk boxes. But i think a lot of magic players have bulk that they never even use, and that's a shame i have found some hidden gems cards this way.
Budget magic stonks to the moon. love this sentiment 🤜🤛
I agree. I subscribed already.
Thanks for watching
I really enjoy your videos and deck building philosophy. Do you have any deck builders who you follow that like with a similar mindset?
I'm sure there are, but I made these because I thought my viewpoint is a bit different to most. That said, if you're not already watching him, Salubrious Snail is the goat. He's arguably the reason I started making videos as I think he inspired me by his views on the game were different and interesting which made me realize I also had views that could be different and interesting.
YESSS PREACH BROTHER!
First there was a snail. And now we have the frog. REJOICE
Thanks for watching friend 🤜🤛 I couldn't imagine a bigger compliment than being compared to the mighty snail ❤️
Here's a fun way to play commander: Make all commanders start at a 7 CMC.
This both evens out very low CMC commanders with high CMC commanders and makes the 99 more important to the gameplay.
Encouraging what would otherwise too high CMC and difficult to play commanders that are fun.
Also makes what are popular mana accelerators such as Sol Ring and Jeweled Lotus more useful and less game breaking.
In my playgroup this works out to be very fun games and allows the pet cards to be kept in the decks.
Full disclosure: I and my playgroup are fine with somewhat longer games. F stax though.
Thanks for watching 🤛🤜 it's great when ones playgroup is aligned with you isn't it. It sounds like a fun idea
Even the way I built Chaos was designed to make it more fun, where i throw a spanner in the works like a challenge and players can choose to fix or ignore the problem presented.
Mystic reflection is my favorite spell because of how many silly things you can do with it
Banger