Battle of Bosworth 1485 - Wars of the Roses DOCUMENTARY
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In our previous animated historical documentaries within the series on the Wars of the Roses, we have covered the victories of the house of York and its leader Edward IV during the battles of Towton, Barnet and Tewkesbury. Yet the conflict for the English throne was not over and another representative of the Lancasters - Henry Tudor would challenge the successor of Edward, Richard III during the battle of Bosworth.
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This video was narrated by Officially Devin ( / @offydgg & / @gameworldnarratives )
Machinimas made on the Total War: Attila engine by Malay Archer ( / mathemedicupdates )
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#Documentary #WarsoftheRoses #Tudors
1. It is highly recommended to pause at 3:26 and look at the family tree.
2. Speaking of the family tree, we have "condensed" it somewhat. There were 2 Johns of Somerset and the first of them was the father to John of Somerset and Edmund of Somerset.
3. The sources are conflicted about the battle, so there are other versions. Some of the sources put Stanleys to the north of the battlefield, as their main holdings were to the north, however, they also had lands to the south of Bosworth, and the logic of the battle tells me that they were to the south. There is also a matter of the troops Henry Tudor had, some sources claim that most of his troops were from France and Scotland. We know that at least 1000 French soldiers fought for him, but that can't be said about the Scots - he obviously had no time to get any troops from the Scotland proper, so a few sources claimed that the French king gave him a unit of his Scots Guards (Garde Écossaise), but it is hard to believe in that, as the kings don't usually give away their guards.
4. Some scholars think that Stanley and Buckingham participated in the disappearances of the Princes in the Tower, either to help Richard III or to make the nobles and the commoners hate him.
5. More planned on the British history - your support would help us immensely! Even 1$ is a big deal for a youtube channel and it will give you early access to our videos: www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals
Ottoman Wars pleas
yes,i miss your ottoman series too...
@@jerrykeranen813 same thought ran through my mind as I started this one!
1) second the pausing unless you already know all the players. 2) Do you have a full genealogy on your site (downloadable to study more closely)? 4) Helping him to turn opinion against him seems very convoluted - too much "I know that you know that I know ..." thinking. Additionally very dangerous if that becomes known. There must be plenty of supporting evidence to prevent that theory from being dismissed as speculation.
Could you make series about servile wars and the history of spartacus?
The battle of Bosworth was one of the biggest turnarounds in history. The Yorkists were dominating the entire war and then they lose one battle to Henry Tudor and it is over.
like hannibal
Richard III lost a big number of the traditional York allies. Everyone was tired of the dynastic war and Richard angered both the nobles and the commoners with his power grab.
yes, my first thought was that it was Henry III with his vanity that put house of York in a severely weakened position in which York house ultimately lost. That power grab was a stupid and selfish idea.
He most likely murdered his nephews, even in those days that doesn't impress anyone. Plus he no longer had the Nevilles
@@KingsandGenerals also thomas stanley is married to henrys mother margaret beaufort, and margaret is part of a close household of richard, she gained a lot of power by being close to the King and married to a powerful noble which is thomas. Thomas will of course side with her wife and support henry, the only reason why he was undecided up to the battle was the size of Richard army.
Mods used:
- Medieval Kingdom 1212
- 1220 mod
- Aztec lighting
- GEMFX
Best wishes,
Malay Archer
Cheers, Malay
Thank you , i was just going to ask . Ive been using the imperium mod and age of vikings . But gosh i have to do the 1212 mod now . Thanks
@@nvmtt i think i have it mixed up with another medieval mod. I think its called 1080 , its a large mod with files added from google drive .
1212 and 1212 are not conflicting each other?
daniel martinez daniel martinez 1080 or 1220? 1220 is a pain in the arse to install. You need download 11 files from the workshop and another major one on his google drive.
Btw, 1220 has campaign and it is fun.
I have nothing but respect for this channel they do history as it is they dont favoritize anyone a true historian must be neutral and non political.
Thank you very much, that is our goal. :-)
lmao how would they politicize the war of the roses? by saying they think the yorks were better?
@@yaboi-rx4eq i was talking about the channel in general
It is kinda hard to be biased in an 800 yo conflict fought by two families of medieval dumbasses. Anyway, you are right, this channel is epic
You've obviously never read any comments on stuff about southeastern Europe (Balkan, Greece, Hungary...). Or the Middle East (Crusades, anyone?). India is also big on this.
It is _very_ easy and quite common to politicise 800 yo conflicts fought by medieval dumbasses.
Although the Wars of the Roses don't carry that much modern baggage, so staying politically neutral is not too hard.
In Yorkshire at almost every gig the crowd starts to chant "White rose, white rose, white rose". Its the best!
Interesting. Thank you!
Your videos on the War of the Roses makes me wish for a more in depth event chain for England in Europa Universalis IV
Alas, the games can't get to that level of detail. For now.
support house york
support house york
Paradox has destroyed my life and left me poor. I love Paradox.
"God forbid that I retreat one step. I will either win the battle as a king, or die as one." - Richard III, after being dismounted.
I feel like the overall view of Richard III is highly negative but as an Asian with no ties or interest to either side, I find him to be an admirable king.
@@sundarpichai940 I also like him. He was cunning and ruthless but he was brave, which makes up for a lot of his negative traits. His death is the stuff of legend and marked the end of chivalry in England.
@@medievalmike5562The negative traits he displayed were essentially him just acting like any noble of his time, meaning we should not judge him based on today's standards
Sad reality is that he would have been an incredibly effective king. He was one of the, f**k the rules, I'm king types. Which isn't always the best but with Richard who had experience, I think he would have done good work. Also, remember that Edward V was barely a teen when he inherited the throne, would not have been able to rule well enough.
@@duplicitouscanadian3073 He was a wasted opportunity for one of England's best kings
_"A horse, his kingdom for a horse!"_
A card, a card, my kingdom for a card.
Yu Gi Oh Duelist of Roses taught me better than school
που το θυμηθηκες ρε φιλε
V. Athanasiou Blackadder: Hey that's my horse! *cuts off head*
@@gandulftehred9989 wtf is that
I want to thank you guys for this channel. You probably dont know me, but i comment on many of your videos. Your channel is great. It actually give me an extra reason to be happy every Thursday and Sunday. It might sound quite repetitive, but i thank you. Maybe you can feel it, but it comes from the bottom of my heart. I am actually holding money to buy merch, both because is cool and because you deserve the support. You are doing a great work, because you enjoy it. If you didnt, then it wouldn't had this quality. Once more, thank you, you created a great place and community. Have great holidays and a great new year!!
So happy to hear that! Please, don't worry about the merch if it is going to put a strain on your finances. Happy holidays!
@@KingsandGenerals No worries. Keep it up! Great video as always
@@paulbryson111 Thank you very much!
Bosworth was not 'one battle and over' for the Yorkists. Tudor historians like to ignore the Battle of Stoke in 1487 which Tudor nearly lost while further invasions and fighting continued until 1497 with the Battle of Blackheath. Henry VII and VIII continued to hunt down and execute anyone with Yorkist blood until well into the 1530s. Read a book called The Last White Rose by Desmond Seward.
www.goodreads.com/book/show/7757358-the-last-white-rose
It was a great series. Wars of the Roses were always one of my favorite topics.
Thank you very much! :-)
Right now they are building a racetrack over the site of the battle, and some Historians are opposing it, but it isn't getting enough attention.
Goddammit, I had no idea, otherwise, we would have worked it into the video.
I know! I hope the historical community worldwide wins this battle. Of all places, why place a test track over this site. Imagine the uproar if they put something over Gettysburg for example.
Capitalism at it again.
I only live 12 miles away from Bosworth and no they are not putting a race track on it.
There has been a study of the battle field and it's actually just over a Mile away from ambion hill
Time team made a very good documentary about it
Good, as then people will then visit it more, an recall the battle as reminders will add this. In hounslow the the treaty centre mall was named after a truce between saxons an vikings over 1000+ yrs ago.
5:03 subtle burgundian succession war.
Good eye :-)
Philippe de Commynes, a counselor to Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, and later a counselor to Louis XI, King of France, claimed that it was the renunciation of the Treaty of Picquigny that caused Edward IV's apoplexy and early death. Charles the Bold died in 1477, leaving his young daughter as sole heir to the lands of Burgundy. The daughter Mary married Maximilian of Austria - but she died suddenly, leaving their young son as Duke and the father as regent. Maximilian made an agreement with Louis whereby Burgundy would cede territories along the Franco-Burgundian border, and his daughter would marry Louis' heir, the future Charles VIII. By doing so, Edward's daughter Elizabeth was cast aside. She was pledged to marry young Charles by the Treaty of Picquigny. Moreover, whereas before, Burgundy was a state sympathetic to England and antipathetic to France (and Charles had been Edward's brother-in-law), now Burgundy and France seemed to be coming into accommodation with one another.
with so many Henrys, Richards and Elizabeth names to remember, this is best visual and well explained recount of the War of Roses. Thank you so very much!!!!
Blackadder killed Richard.
Most probably. :-)
Don't make it anymore complicated
"That's my horsey"
How to win a medieval battle: flank
Its valid for every kind of battle even modern ones.
Love all the back story and build up to the battle. These videos have only gotten better with time.
Thank you very much!
Hey K&G,
Just dropping by quickly to wish you guys a happy holiday and a great new year in advance (in case you don't post until then).
Of course, this was another brilliant video. This whole year has been brilliant! The quality of your videos have drastically improved and you have been consistently giving us viewers high-quality and fascinating videos. So thank you for that. Really.
2019 will be undeniably even better for you guys and I am looking forward to what you will offer us.
Please take some time off for the holidays! I can't remember the last time you guys took a break to be honest haha I think I speak for everyone when I say you deserve it.
Cheers!
Thank you, my friend! Same to you!
@@KingsandGenerals Thank you!
George of Clarence was allegedly drowned in a barrel of wine, inspiring that creepy English children's song about Malmsey wine
I remember that part in Philippa Gregory's The White Queen.
TRUE! But he did have to get out twice to go to the toilet.
There is no factual evidence of any such thing. This started with Shakespeare's Richard III.
Hey Kings and Generals, Great video on the battle that shaped England for years. Thanks a lot!
Thank you for watching!
I always start my Sunday mornings watching Kings and Generals which is an awesome way to start the day.
Found it cool when he said Henry had allies in Leicester, just recently found out I am descended from the Radclyffe's of Leicester, and that my great grandfather Sir John Radclyffe fought and died serving the Lancastrians at Bosworth. Pretty cool.
Just imagine all the rewards he missed out on by dying for the winning side!
I'm with you on that. I have my three ring genealogy binder in my hands, turned to some English ancestor pages from that era and listening to the names.
Did you miss multiplying that "Great" in grandfather by a factor of 15??? or since your grandfather died in 1485, did your grandfather and father manage to live for a combined 500+ years?
Congratulations on wrapping up a very complete and well-presented series.
Thank you for watching!
love the wars of the roses videos you really take the time to sketch the context of the scenario which makes the videos come alive. would love to see some Dutch history in the future like the 80 years war.
Yeah, we'll get there!
@@KingsandGenerals amazing to hear, you should also definitely cover the dutch capturing the pride of the british navy in London. and you probably have a lot of other subjects planned but i would like to see the chinese hemisphere aswell, like i have a lot to learn about Manchu, Qinq, China which i don't know anything about atm. just some suggestions xD
Extremely well done! Y’all bring history alive and make it fun to watch. Please keep the awesome videos coming and God bless you!
Outstanding as always!! I adore your work, particularly on English history!! Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
When we were in grade 6, we were forced to cover this battle and even make a report on it, which made me hate it since I had to pretty much knit-pick every detail of the battle. Now that Kings and Generals has made a video about it, I have a different perspective of the battle. Thanks, Kings and Generals, and keep it up!
Thanks for watching :-)
Singh Anmol preet your lucky you did anything on British history they don't teach it any more
@@grub833 well it was a british curriculum school
Singh Anmol preet what year was it beacasye I never learned anything about British history it was all American history sugch as the wild west
@@grub833 it was in 2012 or 13 but it was in kenya. There was a british curriculum school there where I went.
I've watched several videos the past couple months on the Wars of the Roses and I do think this is the best one. I was able to pull away much easier who was who the tangled families & all their shifting alliances. (Admittedly reinforcement & repetition are good learning strategies, but in any case ...) Congratulations on another great video & thank you again.
Thank you, good sir!
Man, the editing on these are really good, you guys are making great improvements! As always, keep up the good work.
Thank you! We will!
Great video! I’d like to point out though that generally contemporary accounts all agree that Henry’s personal body guard didn’t directly engage in the main battle between Howard and de Vere. The horse flanking manoeuvre on Norfolk’s left was probably led by George Talbot, noted as commanding a unit of mounted spears. It’s believed that Richard in fact spotted Henry and his body guard crossing an exposed area beyond the rear of the fighting making his way towards Stanley’s position (presumably to try to convince him to commit to his cause). It was at this moment that Richard took his chance and William Stanley -frustrated by his older brothers indecisiveness - swept in on Tudors side. Also it’s important to recognise Rhys ap Thomas’ crucial role in this battle. His 1000 or so vengeful Welsh soldiers really gave the Ricardians a beating! They added a huge boost of strength for the Lancastrians.
History is incredible! Thanks!
This is why I got love at first sight to this channel... because of the introduction was so catchy.
Thank you :-)
@@KingsandGenerals You're welcome!
I just realized that in many of your episode intros there is a load of informational text at the edges of the screeen, nice addition
;-)
Thank you, this is the most detailed explanation of the battle that I've heard of, I'm fascinated by this era because I live not far from Pembroke castle where Henry was born and have been to Mill bay on the Dale peninsula where Henry came ashore in 1485, it amazings me how they disembarked on that beach given the topography, the horses would most certainly have struggled
This is very well documented, really like your documentary/strategy video Kings and General.
Wars of the roses made me fall in love with history
"A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!"
Top fact: Richard's body was found under a car park in Leicester a couple of years ago.
Thank you for a breakdown of the battle. This will help my writing.
Do the Portuguese-Ottoman conflict!
We'll see!
@@KingsandGenerals Or atleast make a mini-doccumentary on the battles of Diu and cannanor (Including the siege). 2 battles that proved the european technological superiority, gave portugal the indian sea-trade and deminished Ottoman power (eventually indirectly leading to their defeat during the battle of lepanto)
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 It was a big shift in power and is very overlooled. How isn't that interesting?
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 On the contrary, I like turks and I find their history very interesting. It's just that the Portuguese-Ottoman war was an important event that almost no one knows about
@Syed Ahmed If i remeber correctly after the battle of Constantinople the turks would develope huge and giant cannons thatwere very slow however euripe would develope small but faster to relode cannons.
i feel my brain is going to explode! these conflicts for the thrown are too complicated! but great video
Thanks! We actually simplified it quite a bit.
+Kings and Generals "quite a bit"
Talk about the frequency illusion! Last night I was watching a documentary of the Tudor dynasty up to Edward the V. What a fitting time for this upload!
"I die a faithful kings servant, but Gods first". - Sir Thomas Moore
Your channel is great, I have been rewatching tons of the old videos and seeing the series back to back is so great.
Glad to hear that!
@@KingsandGenerals As a man born and bred in Leicester I am only proud my small city's heritage
And before the video, the teaser of the last season of Game of Thrones appeared as advertisement, how convenient!
Huh. :-)
I hope it doesn't suck like last season
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 it might overall. But the episode Michael sapochnik is directing will probably make up for it. Hardhome and botb were both fantastic and directed by sapochnik.
@@supahwafflz You watched 7 seasons of a show that you apparently didn't like from the start?
@@CamelsHighOnCrayons Despite being a book fan I'd say the first four or five seasons were good. I knew the show was going downhill once they had the Sand Snakes kill all the Martells in contradiction to everything we know about their characters and motivations.
Another great reason for me to wake up today 😁. Thankyou kings for making these great videos and teaching us so much about history. Keep up the great work
We will, thank you! :-)
There is no King but the King in the North who's name is York.
This should have 3.6k likes
Lancaster You Mean!!!
@@alleynealisleem9777 Not in terms of the influence for the kings in the North of Game of Thrones.
What many other TH-cam channel failed to do you succeed
This is first channel where I actually understand war of roses and got interested in it
6:04 Ooooooh yes, you play that 'War of Kings' soundtrack and take your damn like.
:-)
Nothing better then waking up, making coffee.. and finding a new kings and generals video on youtube...
This channel has evolved so well. At first I didn't really like it because of the lacking animation and (IIRC) bit cartoonish style. Yet now I am amazed at how beautiful style and interesting commentary this video had. This is entering Baz Battles quality. I love it! More video please, as an idea, maybe the Iberian Wedding?
Thank you very much! We'll see!
I'd argue personally that it might have surpassed baz battles or at least is equal in animation and quality. This together with the frequency of uploads and new "idea's" (like locusta, ottoman fratricide, ...) put this channel well above Baz battles.
@@MDP1702
You're right on that. If you look at his Franz Ferdinand video and the video on the beginning of the 100 years war, he definitely surpassed Baz Battles.
Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby is my 15th great grampa. Had ancestors on both sides. One fought for Richard and was killed there.
Considering Stanley was the step-father of Henry Tudor I am amazed Richard counted on him. Also related to the Neville's.
Good video guys, I really liked the use of visuals during the battle, hopefully you guys will use that more in the future
Thank you, there will be more!
I found your videos tonight, are awesome, I know that I'll spend many times to see more in the next days!
Welcome aboard! New videos every Thursday and Sunday. Early access and schedule for the patrons and all that :-)
lol I love how you guys keep changing the logo to suit the theme of the video
More like the theme of the month :-)
I don't comment on videos but as a history nerd I always enjoy your videos. Great work guys.
Thank you! We are always happy to get your feedback.
I know about this battle. Henry VII's family or dynasty was the Tudors and his son was Henry VIII. Once again the best video ever
Thank you!
Needs revision with the battlefield now being discovered about 2 ish miles away from Ambien Hill.
I like the fact you are impartial and don’t take sides
This channel is the bees knees ..best History channel bar none in my opinion! AA++
I seriously love this channel. And love me some total war. Thanks for another awesome video guys.
Thank you!
Hey look it's "Battle of the bastards" from GoT. This battle seems similar by several aspects. First the underdog was supported throughout the commoners. Secondly the significantly smaller army charged instead of taking a defensive stance. Thirdly the underdog was supported at the end by a third army, like last hope in a desperate situation, as their cavalry crushed through the lines of Richard III.
Alot of idea's for GoT came from English history including the map itself.
but in battle of bastards I got the feeling that the reinforcements were much stronger than the original forces.
@@itzikashemtov6045 Yeah, im aware of that.
@@nomooon Thats true. In size of the army, u're right. But in composition its the same, since The Valley had greater army but brough only the cavalry cos thats the fastest unit that can come in time.
Not to mention that the Yorkist//Bolton commander had recently deposed his relative(s) to seize power (Though in Bolton's case, he fed his baby brother to the dogs instead of "just" locking up his teenage nephews.
The comparison is actually pretty ironic, given that the Starks are usually compared to the Yorks, not the Lancasters.
Will you do the Battle of Stoke? It is an often overlooked battle in the Wars of the Roses, despite being the final engagement between the Lancastrians and Yorkists
No promises, but I will look into that.
Great video! I'd like to see one on the "pike and shot" tactics used during 16th and 17th century Europe.
Thanks for watching! We are planning that.
Being from Leicester it was crazy when we found Richard the third remember it. Like yesterday
I was really hoping to find this battle on your channel!
I just love your animated maps. they are outstanding
Thank you!
6:04 "War of Kings" soundtrack makes me cry.... love it
Great stuff as always! Can't wait for the series about the gallic wars
Thank you very much!
9:38 John Howard Duke of Norfolk, and Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland
love it, war of the roses is a fascinating period
Fab channel and very well presented! Keep up the good work! Battle of Stoke Field would be a good episode! :)
Just discovered this channel by complete accedent you are officially my favourite youtuber
Welcome aboard!
@@KingsandGenerals you make some of my favourite types of content History Vids and narrative Let's plays Keep up the great work you do
Can't wait for the fire Margin to continue
I love it how you mention the dragon banner when describing Henry Tudor, as Daenerys Targaryen is based off Henry ie the exile who comes back to win the throne
The dragon banner was the symbol of the ancient Celtic Briton (Welsh) kings - see the Welsh legends recorded by Nennius in the early Medieval period. Henry's use of it was due to his dynasty's origins in Wales (descended from Ednyfed Fychan) and to provide himself some legitimacy - especially in the eyes of the Welsh lords - given his tenuous claim to the English throne.
Little known detail about Henry of Richmond - among his mercenaries, provided by the French crown, were Norman soldiers who brought with them to England something g called the Sweat, a highly infectious disease that is still studied. It ran through the English population that summer into fall, carrying off quite a few of London’s elite in the trades and administration. Unknown the toll it took on commons and soldiers. I’ve read speculation that among Richard’s own troops it was present, possibly even something Richard had contracted, although I suspect being brought down from behind by Welsh pikes was more than enough to finish him off.
Henry Tudor landed in south west Wales on August 7th. His part of the army then marched up the Welsh coast before turning east through mid Wales for the English midlands and Bosworth on the 22nd. So prior to the battle his French mercenaries had been in the UK for 15 days. How the hell did they pass on some infectious disease to either Richard, his army or London's elite? As regards your resentment at Richard being possibly felled from behind: have cavalry soldiers ever had qualms (ever) about running their lances between shoulder blades as enemy soldiers flee from battlefields? Chivalry is just another word for hypocrisy.
@@trailingarm63 Sorry for the late reply but here goes - as with anything concerning the Yorkists documents are usually missing, destroyed or never existed so one has to scurry around piecing together bits from massive amounts of research and then apply a certain amount of inferred connection to the bits. For example, Sylvia Thrupp, who did yeoman work on the Medieval Merchant Class of London (probably still the single best material on this topic ever published, in any form) has an extensive appendix of all the aldermanic families (in massive biographical detail) that when I first went through it I did notice quite a few names that I was already familiar with (Chester - and brother, Breten, Heryot, Rawson, Stokkers - John and William, etc) who were all very affluent, powerful gildsmen men in London and had been for a long time and all died just after Bosworth, ie. in the fall of 1483. Others have mentioned the toll the Sweat took on the City's administrative merchant class, not just the average or common Londoner. Rawson, who had a huge family, was an influential mercer, he had been an alderman since 1476, one of his daughters (Anne Rawson) had just married wool exporter Richard Cely (1452-1493) - the dowry was 500 marks (or around 323 pounds). Some years ago I came across an article about the Sweat and how it ravaged London's wealthy powerbase, in Ricardian vol.4, no.59, from Dec.1977 - by Lorraine Attreed, "Beggerly Bretons..." - btw, all Ricardian articles are free to access online - just go to Ricardian online.
More recently I was sent an article from a service that emails me professional scholarly articles that they think might be of interest to me (and sometimes they are) two are worth mentioning in respect to the topic here - authors Omololu and Ayokunle Fagunwa in Oct-Nov 2020 published "The English Sweating Sickness of 1485-1551..." which not only confirmed the peculiarity of this sudden and pernicious (viral? bacterial? they still do not know) disease but its origins with Henry's mercenaries who brought it with them the summer of 1485. The little that we do know of Henry's mercenaries - from 1485 - is that the French unloaded their most undesirable elements for his use, the jails were opened and handed over to him (very likely Madame Anne de Beaujeu, the regent for her young brother, the child-king, Charles VIII, never expected to see repayment for the ships much less the soldiers so why not clean out the brigands, thieves, cutthroats and malcontents from the Norman prisons?)
The reason that the Sweat most likely arrived before Henry's main army did is because of spies, "intelligencers", scouts, or men that might have been called scourers had they been already in an active field of battle - Ian Arthurson has written one of the few articles detailing the spies (and such individuals) during the Wars of the Roses and far more needs to be done in this area - by its very nature such activities were not written down. Henry VII quite in contrast to the kings before him, especially the Yorkists, DID keep records of every last farthing he spent - and it was considerable - on spies, informers and these shadowy intelligencers - in that day meant virtually anyone, from the bishop to the laundress. BTW, Richard would have sent just as many spies over to the Continent/Brittany as Madame and Henry were sending all over London, the SE coast and specific ports - tat the French spies were infinitely better isn't even up for debate!
The other article that was sent to me that would be of interest to you here is by a Gemma Watson, from 2014, concerning the activities of a Roger Machado, who was what we would now call a double or embedded agent. Superficially he was a herald based in Southampton, loyal to Richard III, but the center of a group of adherents in city government, from low positions to the mayor's office, in conspiracy that fall of 1483, to assassinate the king (this was something Edward IV also dealt with, on more than one occasion, actually on several occasions, as would Henry VII). The plot was caught, or undone, along with Buckingham's mangling of the larger rebellion and Machado along with others had to make arrangements to avoid capture. But the 'cell' they created in Southampton was never completely eradicated; Machado's story is helpful here because the coast was porous, as Edward IV knew, and Richard knew and Henry would learn. In the early 1470's the earl of Oxford literally harassed the southeastern coastline with pirating, privateering, took St Michael's Mount, drove Edward IV nearly bonkers with these outlandish antics to the point where Edward had Oxford's mother brought to court, for months, under pain of a sizable bond for her good behavior all to force Oxford to heel.
The last point - as per Richard being attacked from behind at Bosworth - that is not in contention. Rhys ap Thomas, who had allegedly been one of his men, presumably attached to Sir William Stanley's troops, made a career (actually both men did) of announcing to one and all that he, (both claimed the deed) had delivered the killing blow to Richard. And since Richard was charging forward, with Henry in his sights, probably no more than a lance throw's distance, if even that, he did not see either Stanley much less ap Thomas behind him. The mortal wounds to the back of the head would also indicate the pike blows came from behind (see various autopsy reports on the remains, garish as they are). Various versions (for Stanley) suggest that once William Stanley saw that no one was between Richard and a very vulnerable Henry is the moment when he decided to intervene, but for the other side - and from behind - and he never let Henry forget that he William Stanley made him king that day. I listened to a zoom lecture some months ago, the gentleman was not a Ricardian, and as he took questions he was pained to relate the problems Henry had with the Stanleys the whole of his reign, especially William. It might be a very good reason why Henry promoted Rhys ap Thomas, the Welshman, a pikeman, to such an excessive degree, to counter the hubris and arrogance of William Stanley. Rhys ap Thomas would very quickly become more or less the king of south Wales, with Henry's blessing. The Herberts had been decimated in 1469 thanks in large part to Warwick, and the heir was a mere shadow of the father. Of Herbert's many illegitimate sons one would go on to do well under the Tudors, unlike Rhys ap Thomas own situation. His own heir died before him, and mercifully he did not live to see his young grandson executed by Henry VIII, for the hubris of adding the Welsh name that quite literally just referred to the status Rhys act at Bosworth had bought them!
@@bethwilliams4903 You don't need to apologise for the timing of your reply, we're all busy and I appreciate such a fulsome response. In certain ways Ricardians remind me of the controversial "historian" David Irving. He has approached his life's work with a priori belief - or prejudice - and then researched like a maniac to find what evidence he can to support it. Ricardians believe the flower of English chivalry was lost at Bosworth and will snap ever sinew to exonerate him of criminality and corrupt the reputation of his successor Henry and anyone who supported him. Part of this campaign is to suggest the French emptied their goals, supplying the lowest form of men, and the filthy creatures brought a plague with them which damaged English society! It's laughable. Firstly the mercenaries were led by Philibert de Chandee (accent on the first e) an acknowledged military expert. Although no one would go out of their way to praise foreign mercenaries in a battle they appeared to have fought very well and with perfect discipline. Philibert was knighted and made Earl of Bath. Some of the French may have come from prisons (violent times), some will have been free men, but all must have been capable, experienced, well-armed soldiers or Philibert would not have risked his life and reputation on them. Now, "the sweat". As I previously argued, the exiled Lancastrians and their French troops massed on the French coast at Harfleur, took ship packed like sardines no doubt, and marched and camped together for 15 days prior to Bosworth. Any yet all the principals turned up fit, healthy and ready to fight - indeed anxious to take the initiative against Richard on the field. Clearly, the Frenchmen could not have been disease-ridden. The weight of your case seems to be centred on the effects of the sweat on London's merchant class. But just consider for a moment; these men were routinely dealing with sailors and traders who had travelled the earth. Any one of them could have brought the scourge to London. To attribute the sweat to French mercenaries was just a "prejudice du jour" amplified by Ricardians ever since. Finally, you have unwittingly adopted the prejudice of Saxon settlers to the original occupiers of Britain. As you put it: "Rhys ap Thomas, the Welshman, a pikeman" I can hear the disgust dripping from your keyboard. He was Welsh, so you're partly correct and obviously on the western side of the country that's an honour rather than a stain! But to try to dismiss him as a low-born pikeman is just ridiculous. Rhys was born in a castle, his grandfather, Gruffydd, was Sheriff of Camarthen and arguably the most powerful magnate in south west Wales. He may or may not have died at Mortimer's Cross (1460) fighting for the Lancastrians. The Yorkists came after his son Thomas and grandson Rhys in 1461 (besieging Carreg Cennen Castle) so they fled to the court of Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy. It was one of the finest courts in Europe and young Rhys (14 when he arrived) was exposed to the best of European education and military arts. They returned to Wales in 1467 (the year Philip died - not sure if that was the reason) and Rhys married the daughter of a neighbouring magnate. His father was killed fighting for the Lancastrian cause near Machynlleth in 1468. Through inheritance and marriage Rhys would control extensive lands and Richard made him his lieutenant for the region on an annual stipend of 40 marks. So clearly this was no pikeman. He would have rode to Bosworth on a fine horse. Whether he chose to fight on horseback or on foot we can't say - either was possible for warriors of high station. Some mounted riders carried poleaxes which can inflict the same kind of injury as a halberd. How Richard met his end is hard to say. He could have been struck from above or behind by a mounted soldier or dragged from his horse by foot-soldiers (or both) and finished on the ground. We know he fought bravely - probably because he knew the game was up and wanted to go out with a bang rather than a whimper - rather like Sir John Savage who led Henry's left flank at Bosworth and was killed fighting to the death seven years' later when ambushed at the siege of Boulogne (1492).
@@trailingarm63 Much to respond to, thank you, again, sorry to be late, worked New Year's Eve - and welcome to 2023! A few misconceptions to clear up first tho - I am something of a mixed bag, American, a lifelong Francophile, art historian by trade, came to the Yorkists, and Richard by way of Owain Glyn Dwr (he and the Herberts would be my preferred examples of chivalry and the Welsh were there on the island long before what could be called the 'English' - thanks to the Mortimers, Richard and his kin have a considerable amount of Welsh blood, but I put their penchant for ornery belligerence on the Neville line, which was Norman!) I tend to keep several projects going simultaneously, it was with great reluctance that I undertook this past summer to - ugh - read up on the English side of the Hundred years War (or the French Wars as I call them, which is what they were!) I found that Kenneth Fowler's "Great Companies" and Remy Ambuhl's "Prisoner's of War in the HYW" made plowing through Sumption a worthwhile detour and soon I found that the French Wars made the civil war of the 15thc, the mess that consumed all of Richard and Henry's lives, not only understandable but also explained the one person who is too often ignored: king Louis XI, the titan of the entire age, ran circles around every ruler, from churchman to prince or emperor, LXI is so breathlessly 'modern' that I am not surprised Edward looks a fool for the whole of his reign. Had LXI been a young man (and not literally dying) when H7 came into his reign, and not his feckless child, the 13 yr old Charles VIII, H7 would have been relegated to the role of emasculated puppet that Maximilian was by Dec 1482 with the Treaty of Arras.
As for Rhys, no insult intended, pikemen, a specialty of the Welsh, possess along with the battleaxe, one of the most fearsome weapons that I can get reliable information about, and Rhys's sister was married to Sir Richard Herbert, surely the best of the Herbert clan along with his elder brother the earl of Pembroke - a triumph for the Welsh, William was full blooded Welsh and had become the first to enter the English peerage, all to lose it in a treacherous battle a year later at Banbury - Edward, who I have a very contentious relationship with as a historian, is a cipher in 1469-70 - he was simply in a state of utter confusion all summer 1469, and Pembroke, with his Welsh affinity, and Devon, paid the price for Edward's bumbling. He never recovered from the loss of Herbert - I could go on and on. Edward was no golden god, no sweetheart. He had a streak of truly malicious vengeance that we would call sadistic today, when he chose, and then quite in contrast, Edward would often pardon or forgive the most egregious treasons!
Banbury (1469) was like that, among the northern troops supporting Warwick's rebellion was William Parr, openly treasonous, marching and fighting at Banbury - well sometime over winter 1469, possibly spring 1470, Parr must have defected from Warwick because like the later treasonous John and Richard Guildford in the Kent rebellions against Edward, none would ever be attainted, or even fall from Edward's good will. Compare that to how Edward treated the Countess Oxford, or the mariners at Southampton in 1470, whose corpses he had abused after they were executed - and then what of old Henry VI and his own brother George, neither of whom required death. Leave them in the Tower, H8 left some of the Pole brothers in the Tower for decades, one was there at least 30+ years! No one was going to rescue or lead a campaign to put them on the throne; George had been pardoned for the charges now being resurrected yet again - attainder and isolation wasn't adequate? why? only death would suffice? (It was as Talleyrand said of Napoleon's murder of duc d'Enghien, "worse than a crime, this was a mistake!")
Well, one needs to know French Valois political history to understand, and while it is easy to assume the French Wars were over, in France, to LXI, they were not. If you get a chance, read Bronislaw Geremek's excellent "Margins of Society in Late Medieval Paris" - you will grasp both the price of the 14thc HYW/ French Wars and the driving motivation behind LXI, no cipher at all. Richard, for his part, was not anti-French, as he is often portrayed, he was however, very much anti-Scots! Probably years of dealing with the raids on the borders, and he played James III like a fiddle (see the situation of spring thru Sept 1484, poor James ...) oh, last thought on the Sweat, it was a fickle virus (spread by mice? airborn?) people would dash out of London to protect themselves only to die in their safe country estates - Charles Brandon's two sons, in 1551 died within hours of each other at Buckden, safe from London, but not from the Sweat - the many different units of mercenaries sent with Richmond in 1485 also indicate a widespread disconnect from each other - Franco-Scot Bernard Stuard d'Aubigny commanded some 1000 (???) Scots at Bosworth, probably raised from Scotland itself as his own lands were in the Sologne south of Paris. I have wondered if d'Aubigny brought his Scots to France first, he had been in contact with James, personally, since spring of 1484, ah the Norman mercenaries were the least of it!
@@bethwilliams4903 Thanks for your reply, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your evaluation of Rhys ap Thomas' nationality or position. But you do have to let go of this idea of him being a pikeman. A pike is an overlong spear - anything up to about 25ft. It's heavy and can only be used by a foot soldier. The Swiss were the masters of it but - as you mentioned - the Scots also used it (with varying results!). Its main role was either to defend against cavalry because horses cannot be trained to commit suicide, or to advance against infantry and either kill them (ideally) or drive them back. Effective at distance, they were clumsy or ineffective at close quarters and formations of pikemen were vulnerable on their flanks, to their rear and when badly-drilled. The Welsh didn't really use this weapon in the medieval period as the nation's sparse population demanded hit & run, guerrilla tactics rather than pitched battles (which were usually lost!) For swift, close fighting Welsh soldiers would reach for spears, long knives, swords or various forms of halberd (the simplest being a farm billhook mounted on a pole). The main Welsh strength was archery. In addition to serving Welsh lords, Welsh archers worked extensively as mercenaries for English and sometimes French armies. Rhys' route through Wales was inspired by the need to recruit fighting men for Bosworth particularly archers. Standard Street in Crickhowell is said to have been given the name because Henry's or Rhys' standard was raised there for this purpose. Contrary to Ricardian claims about a poor response, he raised so many men across Wales he chose only the best and sent the rest home.
As the poets like to recount, Rhys rode to battle on a fine horse and donned expensive armour when he got there. We can only speculate on his choice of weapons - mace, axe? sword? Lance? Maybe a halberd or poleaxe if he chose to fight on foot. I grew up in North Wales which is close to the Stanleys' estates which ran across Cheshire, North Wales and Lancashire. I suppose my heritage inclines me slightly towards the Lancastrian cause, however, my main objective is the truth (or the most likely approximation). The Stanleys were slippery, acquisitive and difficult. I'm familiar with Dr David Hipshon's excellent research about their vested interest in the Haringtons' Hornby Castle, etc, and what an incentive this gave them to back Henry Tudor. But I wouldn't go as far as Hipshon in saying this was the key to their abandonment of Richard III and the outcome of Bosworth. More likely it was one of several reasons, the main one being they were fundamentally Lancastrians! (As was Northumberland!) My last observation on "the sweat" is that it was the excuse Lord Stanley named for his apparent illness when Richard demanded he join his army in the midlands! This means British nobles were familiar with the condition prior to the French mercenaries' presence as they had only just landed in south west Wales. Best wishes to you for 2023! It's nice to debate these issues with a fellow history buff.
This was really helpful for my homework! Thanks :)
I was waiting for battle of bosworth. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Good as far as it goes but... your interpretation of this battle is woefully out-of-date and is clearly based on much older and now discredited interpretations. Modern battlefield archaeology has now placed the actual battle well over a kilometre away from Ambion Hill, adjacent to a marsh and alongside the Roman road which Tudor's army had marched up. It appears it was this marsh which may have prevented Northumberland from engaging as much as anything else, he dared not cross it or risk becoming disorganised. Concentrations of artillery shot and metal artefacts have turned up in this area (none on Ambion Hill) but the kicker was the finding of a silver gilt retainer's badge modelled as a white boar, Richard's personal badge, which would have been worn by one of his inner circle or bodyguard. This was in the marsh and bears out the story that Richard got his horse bogged down and was thrown or pulled down from the horse. Most historians also place the Stanleys much further to the side as if ready to join either side of the battle. An account written by a Spanish eye-witness suggests that Lord Thomas Stanley crossed Richard's front to take position on Richard's left when originally Thomas had planned to be on Richard's right. This crossing action may have been to put Thomas closer to his brother William so that they could co-ordinate their actions during their betrayal. There is also contemporary evidence that Tudor (Thomas Stanley's step-son) met both Stanleys on at least one occasion, just before the battle while Thomas excused his non-arrival at Richard's camp by saying he was suffering from 'the sweating sickness'. I strongly suggest you read Glenn Foard's authoritative book Bosworth 1485: A Battlefield Rediscovered. Extracts of it and many of the maps are available to view online. Modern interpretations are now being made inline with his archaeological report. The final confirmation is that previously ignored old maps of the area call this patch 'K. Rich's field' while the adjacent hill is called Crown Hill. It was where Henry VII received the crown from Thomas Stanley after Richard was killed. Barry Slemmings, Lance and Longbow Society
@@tomg7913
My apologies for the repeat Tom as I had missed your comment. The original interpretations of Bosworth (which this episode unfortunately repeats) date from the Victorian and Edwardian period and were based on the position of Richard's Well which - it turns out - was behind the battlefield and not on it. These earlier interpretations were always blighted by the issue of where was the marsh and how big was it on the day? When modern metal detecting was carried out to confirm the position of the battlefield, bore holes and core samples were taken which indicated the probable depth and extent of the marsh in 1485. Suddenly it was quantifiable and this allowed a more charitable view of Northumberland's supposed inaction. It blocked him. Firmly placing the battlefield via the fall of the shot also makes it easier to interpret the sometimes confusing accounts of the battle, particularly that of Spanish soldier Juan Salazar as reported by Diego de Valera. All of this suggests that Lord Thomas Stanley crossed Richard's front (thus presenting his flank and rear to Richard) which may have lulled Richard into a false sense of security. No 'traitor' would do this. Thomas thus took position on Richard's far left and to the left of Northumberland - yet another reason why Northumberland would not wish to advance into the marsh. He might risk a flank attack by Stanley. Thomas' brother William was on Tudor's right but somewhat disengaged as he also faced the marsh. At some point Tudor's standard was seen to move towards the Stanleys, as if to urge them forward, and this was the bait which Richard eventually took. He charged, he lost momentum after killing Tudor's standard-bearer, bogged down in the marsh and was ambushed. Now... I am most careful to say that the STANDARD was seen to move. I am of the opinion (pure opinion) that Tudor was nowhere near it and had stayed safely out of range. That is just my personal bias against Tudor coming out. :) He always reminds me of the lawyer in the first Jurassic Park film, the one who gets eaten by the T-Rex in the toilet. Tudor looked like 'the blood sucking lawyer' and his preoccupation with money was the same! :) Barry Slemmings, Lance and Longbow Society
Barry Slemmings don’t apologise it’s worth bringing up as much as possible to get it right and you have so much more knowledge on the subject than I! All I knew about was the boar badge and the cannonball being found in the marshy area. Thank you for your extra information. I actually went to see the re-enactment this year and learned so much from the people who were actually passionate about this battle and the period. Even just watching the manoeuvres acted out is really eye opening and a great experience to what happened
@@tomg7913
I have been wargaming the period for far more years than I would even care to remember and have been naturally interested in the battlefield finds at Barnet, Northampton, Bosworth and Towton. The Towton archaeology report is a fascinating read as it features post-mortems on 40 soldiers killed in the rout. I have a full copy. I have read the online extracts of Foard's Bosworth report and am awaiting my full copy from Santa. I may be lucky.
The online extracts may be viewed here: books.google.co.uk/books?id=QIwOmwEACAAJ&pg=PA19&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
I recommend this to any student of the period but especially the film-makers. Barry Slemmings
Love these little docs especially the graphics - wish we’d had them at prep school for history - which coincidentally was in Coventry! Although don’t remember all those forests and mountains 🤔😅... ah there was Gibbet Hill where we went sledging once but that’s about it... we subsequent smoked spliffs in the ruins of Kenilworth Castle - which the aforementioned Margaret of Anjou used as base I have just discovered! 😊👍
Beautiful Video! Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you very much!
What an awesome way to wake up on a Sunday morning! Pancakes and kings and generals
Bon appetit!
Britain has very reach documented history
@@heroe480 since 1066 actually
Taffy Ducks The Norman’s didn’t invade England after Hastings, it took them a long time to fully take over
The ending was like the battle for wintefell in game of thrones, with balish coming late.
11:25 A horse a horse , my Kingdom for a Horse !!!
love your vids, super high quality. Would you consider doing a bit more modern history? I really enjoyed the series on WW2
Thank you ver much!
And then, of course, 6 years ago a group of archaeologists recovered the skeletal remains of King Richard III from beneath a parking lot.
Interesting, I had no idea :-)
You should visit king Richard the 3rd visitor centre in Leicester , I really recommend it
Thank you very much. This is amazing!
Thanks for watching!
last time i was this early there were still some mongolian envoys hangin out... alive...
They will hang again in the future videos. :-)
Now they were be defeated if God wills
Umar Ansari wut u say boi?
Said Besimoğlu son, I am saying that now Mongols will lose battles
@@umaransari9765 And their worst enemy has not even come...
Plz do the Tudors! You guys are amazing!
Thank you!
Best channel about history.
Thanks!
Can you please do a video on the Neo-Assyrian empire? Probably the most underrated and overlooked empire in history.
I certainly hope you do some Henry stuff.he was just great lol.
This Henry was tame. Now, his son... :-)
@@KingsandGenerals quite!
10:05 Mods finally learned to turn off FF!
People need to know that Richard was not evil and there is no shread of evidence he killed his nephews. I'd be more inclined to believe Philippa Gregory's honourable soldier than Shakespeare's wicked hunchback but as far as we can judge, Richard fulfilled his obligations and more, and for a medieval prince that was remarkable.
This documentary is amazing.
Any many centuries latter Richard III body was found under a pay and display car park in Leicester.
"A horse! A horse! A Kingdom for a horse!. Er and has anyone got any change for the ticket machine?"
I'm kind of surprised that the two sides were able to keep fielding armies of that size throughout the conflict given the population of the country at the time.
War is always try tragic for both parties involved.
Great video as always! /a long time fan
Thank you, Emil!
Love your work! Can you consider in the future covering the campaigns of Simon Bolivar?
Thank you very much! Yes, it is planned!
@@KingsandGenerals You guys are the best! Look forward to it!!! Thanks.
Please do a battle in the thirty years war
Thinking about it!
Another great video! will you be going into the rebellions after Henry the 7ths victory and their battles e.g the battle of stoke?
Thanks! We'll see, no promises. :-)
It seems like there's always a Kings and Generals video that I haven't watched yet.
And more in the works :-)
It's surprising to see Henry win seeing as how he was outnumbered and attacking up a hill on the map.
Bosworth was a trap for Richard imho. Henry wanted to bait him in to giving battle so they could trap him and kill him, which was the only way to win that war for the Lancastrians. My guess is more than just the Stanleys turned coats during the battle and Richard was probably surrounded and trapped and so did all he could: try to kill Henry. The whole battle of Bosworth was no battle imho. It was all a ruse.. and it worked.
That smiling Jim Halpert meme was all over that in-video ad haha
Excellent call for a Video! The only thing missing is perhaps "Europa" by globus as a soundtrack.😎
Thank you very much :-)