Hi Scot, I am certainly not the font of knowledge about Moe Normans swing mechanics.. but I think I am a reasonably good observer.. and listener.. to that end the time I spent with Moe I think I was able to pick up on what he said he did in his golf swing.. and what I 'saw' personally in his golf swing. My explanation is just that .. 'my explanation' .. if it gave you insight that 'you' could benefit from.. the video was worthwhile doing. cheers JH
I admire how you have interpreted Moe Norman’s swing. Particularly the simplicity of the back swing. The natural momentum that creates in the swing by just flinging the golf club head back is incredible. Keep up the instructional videos.
Hi John, I think by getting momentum into the clubhead with a throwing back action tends to make the Golf Swing a 'One' direction process instead of a 'Two' direction process.. that being a .. Backswing.. and.. a Downswing. If you just apply the throwback process the significant momentum of the backswing just orientaes the body to 'react' the downswing instead of 'creating' a deliberate thought intention for a downswing. I think the body just activates its instinctive processes against a momentum throwing back of the clubhead .. trying to 'get' the clubhead to do something deliberate in the timeframe of a downswing is really just to difficult. Cheers JH
I am back to this video because I'm older and I needed to incorporate the right hand strike. It's a major help in distance loss as one ages. Thanks JH for keeping these videos available.
Hi Ira, Most people in general with any type of Golf swing really never use their trail hand to its maximum effect .. the way to do that simply .. is to just think about 'straightening' the trail arm fold coming into impact as forcefully as you can .. .. you wont get it straight at impact .. but you should 'try' to .. remember Hogan's famous line .. ' I WISH I HAD '3' RIGHT HANDS AT IMPACT'.. .. he clearly hit very hard with his trail/dominant hand/arm coming into .. and at impact .. cheers JH
Hi Joe, Look after that rotator cuff injury.. they can really linger on if you don't give them a chance to heal themselves. Glad you have had some success with the Moe Mechanics swing.. cheers JH
Hi Jerry, Coming 'back' to videos sometimes gives a different perspective from the initial exposure .. I have a lot of people say they 'get it' now after revisiting videos from times past .. and I guess with us all locked up at present my big library of videos can be a good place to while away that isolation .. cheers JH
I’m still stuck and and hit an old big Bertha wood 246 and 291 driver last round. Between you, Kirk and Todd I’m all over the place I’m between. I guess with the name, Ben Hogan I guess I’ll go ahead and play for fun and drink beer because I’ll never swing like one mentioned . 84 then 101 🤷♂️ I blame golfers elbow and too much information.
Great Videos, Thank You for your effort. You are one of the fews that understands the importance of cameras, angles and that delivers the message better than others. Hit about 600 balls yesterday of which 45 straight, realized just now that the right arm-rib cage must have been a big part of my mistakes. Also changed grip yday... good on ya JH. knowledge should be free. cheers
Hi Edoardo, My camera work and setups are just as result of the videos just being done on on the practice tee between stuff that I do for the general roster guys that I teach, all the videos are done by setting up the camera very quickly when the opportunity presents itself to get something I am thinking about at a particular point in time. The angles are not for the most part ideal for gauging accurate visual feedback of how I stand to the ball because the sun is where it is and I have to position myself to that end as to not be shooting into the sun and to not be hitting balls to areas where other people or 'Cows/Animals' are located . Whatever I find out about the golf swing if I think someone might get something from it I am more than happy to let them see it and make up their own minds if they want to try it out, it doesn't cost me anything really to make the videos because it happens in between stuff I am already on the practice doing so the videos are 'freebies' ...as they should be. Cheers JH
Yeah counter light might not give the best results at times, I was actually referring to the fact that you actually turn your body in different angles and that allows the viewer to understand much better muscle movements and impact points. Been in the video industry for many many years and other people that shoot golf videos don't keep in mind these aspects which are crucial. Anyways thanks again for your efforts.
A small advice for your vids, remember that if you set the audio on automatic ( meaning you letting the camera set the levels for you, the levels will look perfect on their meter level scale, but what happens is that the automatic audio level 'compresses' more the audio in result of picking up a lot more of the background noise) Best thing is to set audio levels manually around -20 db. Audio will sound much better and cleaner.
edoardo barzano I have the settings at -20db now and it is the best of the settings I have tried to date, the Audio is not high quality recording equipment although it is the latest Rode Filmmaker kit which is supposed to be fairly good for the money. I am not a production guy and I just need something that is easy to set up and is fairly robust in its construction , the videos are filmed in the 'Rough' in the cow paddock most times so they naturally take on the personality of the environment I guess in that they are 'Rough' as well. cheers JH
They re great videos, and the equipment you have is more than enough. If you have at at -20 you'll be fine. I actually suggested it after watching a video that might have been from couple of years ago.... Cheers...
Hey JH really enjoying your videos.Been going back and forth with channel lock and conventional and I've hit some very nice shots with channel lock.Keep em coming and thanks.
I'm confused. I recently purchased the kit thinking it was half the kit and kaboodle, then purchased the kaboodle thinking it was the other half. My wife says that I only purchased half a kit and kaboodle. If this is true, where can I purchase the other half of the whole kit and kaboodle, or do I have to purchase the whole kit and kaboodle? Also, I would like more info on the whole nine yards, as I would like to purchase four and a half for now, finish paying off the whole kit and kaboodle, then purchase the other four and a half nine yards. Thanx.
Funny thing is I have the same swing and never knew about this , I made it myself same way he did , figures I am single digit handicapper and everybody laugh about my swing but I can play , is logical , the slide is important and ball position is very important
Hi Jim, Yeah that little aspect of the swing does some significant things in the swing .. you need to hit some half shots with say an 8 iron and just really drill yourself into feeling the counter rotation of the trail leg .. its hard to do initially in a full swing.. but doing some multiple shots with a half swing will give you the feeling you need for the motion .. cheers JH
Hi Max, I think one length irons/hybrids are the best golf clubs to play without question .. one length club .. 'one' swing type .. I hit the one length clubs a few times every week .. they are just so easy to hit .. I will b e building a very specific set of one length clubs for myself soon .. cheers JH
Thanks for the reply, I didn't like his manner either and quite frankly I couldn't understand what he meant and how to do it anyway. Do the think Todd Graves' method is more sound?
Hi Craig, I think the Graves method is the best for players generally because what they advocate is well explained and can be done reasonably easily , there is not the 'deep secrets' of specific personal things that Moe supposedly did, I can tell you stuff he said he did personally but they are way to hard to do for the learner, or even the very good player because they are relative to 'Moe's" capabilities and physicality. The best way to go down the Moe mechanics road is to just apply the 'essence' of his swing mechanics and not the 'personal specifics'...the Graves method is very 'learn-able' , I think they are the best guys by far to learn the overall process of Moe's swing, at the end of the day getting a swing that lets you cut out a lot of the rotation through the ball is what Moe's swing is really about, and that's all I try to do myself . cheers JH
Hi JH, I've REALLY been enjoying your new series on the recent "atomic" changes you've found in Moe's swing. Yesterday, I was watching some video clips on Henrik Stenson and suddenly realized that he has a very interesting move that he uses to start his swing. There is a type of squatting/sitting move followed immediately by a very interesting move of his right leg. It looks to me like he is straightening his right leg as his left knee folds in. Anyway, I haven't seen it in slow motion so as to able to dissect it more thoroughly but it does appear that he is getting into a Moe-like move with his right leg. If you get a chance, take a look and tell us what you think. No doubt that Stenson has found something that has allowed him to become an amazing (if not Moe-like) ball striker. Best regards, Chip
Hi Chip, Henrik has that little precursor move into his right side to make sure he gets his weight shift programmed because he used to have a very pronounced 'pickup' of the club in his early days and because he is such an free Arm swinger it was easy for him to just pick his arms up and not get enough rotational weight shift on the back swing. I think he has the most aggressive free arm swing I have ever seen from any world class player, but if you get to aggressive with the arms on the backswing as he does its very easy to not shift the weight into the trail side as you need to to facilitate the amount of lead weight shift you need on the forward swing to balance up the support of the super aggressive free arm swing into the ball. cheers JH
Tom's swing philosophy was very simplistic relative to conventional swing mechanics ... he very much wanted the club head to create its own path by its swing inertia loadings... he was very good teacher . cheers JH
Hogan called it... 'Laying The club off' ... its a great way to load the club head coming down... and keep the face open so you can release as hard as you want to and not close the face through impact. cheers jH
Todd knows a lot about Moe's swing .. he is a good teacher of the Moe Norman process.. and it's more of a user-friendly version of Moe's actual mechanics .. and Todd having a general normal golfers body type as opposed to Moe's short stubby type body type makes demonstrating the swing process more visually understandable than Moe's actual swing .. Todd is clearly the Authority on Moes swing these days I think .. cheers JH
Hi JH, I've been a long time admirer and follower of Moe's perfect mechanics and have only recently discovered your videos, which I'm really enjoying. I've read almost every book there is about Moe and would like your opinion on the part in Greg Lavern's book where he reveals Moe's most important secret move (also done by Hogan apparently) and that is the first move on the downswing being a move TOWARDS the ball with the sternum.
Hi Craig, I haven seen that reference by Greg Lavern, I haven't read any of his stuff because he labelled everyone but himself as 'Knuckleheads' if we had the temerity to offer 'any' opinion on Moe's swing mechanics, so I have no opinion on anything that he says frankly. I will however point out the Anatomic flaw in that statement if it was made in that specific frame of reference. If we deduce that at the finish of the back swing Moe has turned his shoulders normally to his right and being constructed as all other Humans are his sternum is located between his shoulders which are turned at right angle to the ball line how can the sternum be the first body section to move towards the ball , how do you get the lead shoulder out of the way for the sternum to be the first responder to the downswing without the lead shoulder moving before the sternum. Anatomically its impossible for the sternum to move independently of the shoulder girdle, ok its semantics but this is the problem with so much instruction information, its 'perception' by the person making the claims, even Moe clearly didn't do things he thought he did in his swing. If Lavern had said Moe had the 'Feeling' his sternum was the first thing that moved to the ball on the downswing that could be accepted... but the 'feeling' of the sternum going to the ball could not have happened if the shoulder girdle did not stay closed and the proximal part of the body being the left shoulder had not initiated the oblique transverse diagonal move back to the ball line. The sternum at the top of the back swing is facing 'away' from the ball line...if it is to be the 'first. thing to move 'towards ' the ball on the downswing it must move itself past the left shoulder girdle without the left shoulder girdle moving which is an anatomical impossibility, again not wanting to be pedantic but you just cannot use that type of description and expect it to have any acceptance level of credibility of understanding from people like myself , or anyone for that matter that understands basic human anatomy . My own explanation would be that you could have the feeling that you were moving your sternum in an oblique direction to the ball line with the sternum maintaining its closed position inside the shoulder girdle, I would never say to feel the sternum was the 'firs't thing to move towards the ball because that conjures up the sternum as 'turning' towards the ball by itself independently which clearly would be a disaster as it would conjure up the feeling of an early opening of the sternum on the downswing which you obviously wouldnt want in Moe's swing. If Moe had the problem of 'perceptional' swing process movements as apposed to reality I can understand other people having the same problems, 'thinking' of the sternum as being the 'first' thing to move to the ball is OK, but in reality it doesn't and cannot happen . cheers JH
@@1atomicgolf Maybe Hogan's sternum thing just comes from the fact that he was so inside muscle focused something that I have struggled with in trying to apply of his precious teachings.
@@fellowcitizen5215 Hogan braced so hard against his trail knee/ leg which created an unbelievable stable centre of rotation ...if you look at his head and upper spine they just are glued in space and he just turns his lower body/ hips underneath that fixed rotational point .. I always felt Hogan was thinking he wanted to turn 'inside' his vertical address alignment lines that scribed down from each shoulder into the ground ... I think he did that better than anyone who ever played the game and if you look at pictures of him from behind you see his pivot is so 'in place' vertical that he 'looks' like he is reverse pivoting into his lead leg.. but he clearly isn't ...its just that he turns so much 'in [lace' around his fixed upper spine it looks like he is reverse pivoting .. Hogan never thought of a backswing weight 'shifting' of mass to his right side .. he just wanted to 'rotate' that mass into his trail side ..if yopu look at Sam Snead from behind he made the same type of rotating on the spot pivot .. .. he never moved his head laterally 1 inch in his backswing .. and of course neither did Hogan .. So your assessment of Hogan wanting to key on his 'inside' musculature is right on the money .. I mentioned just that to Moe Norman about Hogan and he said he saw that in Hogan as well and he tried to do the same in his own backswing as well .. which he did to a significant degree.. The difficulty everyone has had in trying to copy Hogans swing/ pivot is that they don't realise how much flexibility Hogan had in his hip extensors ... you cannot make his type of backswing pivot without that level of hip extensor flexibility and midriff flexibility... Jimmy Demeret called Hogan the 'Indian Rubber Man' so flexible he thought Hogan was .. cheers Jh
@@1atomicgolf Thank you as it was very kind of you to take the time to do the reply. I was going to sell my golf stuff and give up the game as I have not played much in years. It is a wonderful game but it is the only sport I have ever taken up where you can be considered an excellent player one day by exceptional players and the next day play in a way that even hackers think you are the worst. I decided to look at Moe's swing and I found you online after I had done much study of his swing. You really know what you are talking about and now after studying Moe, watching you hit balls and your introduction to me to Parametric Acceleration and Count Yogi I cannot wait to hit some balls in preparation for spring.
@@fellowcitizen5215 I'm glad I was able to stave off you selling your golf clubs ... there is 'always' a solution to getting a golf swing that will work for 'you'.. if you are interested in Count Yogi stuff I have a couple of videos that are not public videos on some of Yogi's swing mechanics and my take on such .. if you give me your email address I will send the videos to you .. there is I think some good insight into his swing mechanics in those videos .. cheers JH
At 16:00 when you are talking about not having a name for the move you are discussing, it looks like you are dropping the head of the club so why not call it the 'drop', or maybe even better the 'back drop'? :)
Hi Michael, I don't use oversize grips at the present time .. but now that I have gone to the split 8 finger grip I will be changing over to a bigger grip .. and a parallel profile grip configuration as well .. that being the grip the same size under the bottom hand as it is under the top hand ... The Jumbo Max grips are the best grips for oversize use by far in my opinion .. cheers JH
I don't think I have ever said any of the swing types I have talked about are 'Easy and Simple' to replicate.. nor that any level of competance can be achieved in the application of only 25-30 shots.. Any type of gross motor body movements to be ingrained and replicated with a good degree of competancy requires repititions of significance .. I know I do gloss over some things on occasions ..but I dont think I ever did relative to the need for commited practice time for a swing change of any significant difference.. cheers JH
Martins swing is a lot like Lee Comeaux's swing in that they both feel the swing in a very personal way and explaining that 'feeling' is the hard part for them both... I can't pick up on the 'feelings' of those swings myself as yet which is why I don't get involved in trying to do them justice. cheers JH
I spent time with Moe personally.. I know what 'he 'did' ...and what he called the process.... you can tell someone to just 'drop the club vertically' because that is what Moe said he did .. but if they don't know 'how' to do that it's not worth anything as a descriptional reference.. cheeers JH
Your kidding right... I had to look at the calendar date .. I thought it was 1st April.. April Fools day ..that is if you are referring to the swing link you provided ... JH
@@golfmarvell I am far from the best version of Moe Normans swing.. in fact my swing has very little resemblance to Moe Normans swing .. what 'I' do is just apply what 'I' can do as my thinking of his swing mechanics .. Thanks for the compliment .. but it's not really deserved.. but thanks anyway .. cheers JH
In 2001 Moe has refined/simplified his swing and narrowed his stance and abandoned that disorderly unnatural behavior what might be called extreme inside out around the body/ribs back arms lag and curtailed the legs hips movements as an extra unnecessary movements. He now clamed he is more consistent and gained 30 yards with the driver and that his arms swinging the whole club back and through the inclined circular plane and hands doing nothing, hands are just griping the club, and he says that golf is a circular motion no insides-outsides or unnecessary motion, and followed more closely to the path of the back swing's inclined circular plane, the key to Moe's swing is the acceleration thought the ball at impact with his wrist to deliver the backswing's stored elastic and gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, keep it simple stupid.
That video you saw and are referring to where Moe said he had changed his swing ...he only worked with that change for a week.. and he abandoned it after that. 'Every' golf swing is circular.. and Moe knew that ..he had an applied 'perception' that he moved the club in a linear motion.. he didn't do that ever.. and he knew that.. but he 'felt' he did that. The Delatori process of swinging ... which is the one Moe was referring to..could not be grafted into Moe's swing dynamics realistically and after only a week he knew that.. he actually hit the ball very inconsistently whilst he was trying to adapt the swing process. Moe reverted to his original swing process and it never changed from that moment on until his passing. cheers JH
The only thing Moe did change in his swing that had any relativity to the Delatori swing principle was to soften his grip slightly and relax his shoulders .. he told me that point blank. I was upfront with Moe when he said he wanted to implement some of the Delatori swing principles into his swing .. I just said as frankly as I could that no one has ever referred to Delatori's swing as remotely comparable in quality of strike or accuracy to that of Moe's swing.. so why try to change the considered best consistent ball striking swing of all time. Moe just raised his eyebrows and said.. ' You are right.. everyone tells me I hit the ball better than anyone else ..so why should I change Really '.. Moe was getting old and he was losing his flexibility so the softening of his grip and shoulders did help his swing range of flexibility .. but he didn't change his baseline swing mechanics principles at all. cheers JH
Dude, I have watched Todd Graves and other people explain this swing, but this simple video told me more than all of them. Thanks for your honesty!
Hi Scot,
I am certainly not the font of knowledge about Moe Normans swing mechanics.. but I think I am a reasonably good observer.. and listener.. to that end the time I spent with Moe I think I was able to pick up on what he said he did in his golf swing.. and what I 'saw' personally in his golf swing.
My explanation is just that .. 'my explanation' .. if it gave you insight that 'you' could benefit from.. the video was worthwhile doing.
cheers JH
I admire how you have interpreted Moe Norman’s swing. Particularly the simplicity of the back swing. The natural momentum that creates in the swing by just flinging the golf club head back is incredible. Keep up the instructional videos.
Hi John,
I think by getting momentum into the clubhead with a throwing back action tends to make the Golf Swing a 'One' direction process instead of a 'Two' direction process.. that being a .. Backswing.. and.. a Downswing.
If you just apply the throwback process the significant momentum of the backswing just orientaes the body to 'react' the downswing instead of 'creating' a deliberate thought intention for a downswing.
I think the body just activates its instinctive processes against a momentum throwing back of the clubhead .. trying to 'get' the clubhead to do something deliberate in the timeframe of a downswing is really just to difficult.
Cheers JH
I am back to this video because I'm older and I needed to incorporate the right hand strike. It's a major help in distance loss as one ages. Thanks JH for keeping these videos available.
Hi Ira,
Most people in general with any type of Golf swing really never use their trail hand to its maximum effect .. the way to do that simply .. is to just think about 'straightening' the trail arm fold coming into impact as forcefully as you can .. .. you wont get it straight at impact .. but you should 'try' to .. remember Hogan's famous line .. ' I WISH I HAD '3' RIGHT HANDS AT IMPACT'.. .. he clearly hit very hard with his trail/dominant hand/arm coming into .. and at impact ..
cheers JH
I tweaked my rotator cuff using this method. Hitting it straighter and more consistently now. Thanks for the video
Hi Joe,
Look after that rotator cuff injury.. they can really linger on if you don't give them a chance to heal themselves.
Glad you have had some success with the Moe Mechanics swing..
cheers JH
JH I come back to these videos every few months. Thanks for your help!
Hi Jerry,
Coming 'back' to videos sometimes gives a different perspective from the initial exposure .. I have a lot of people say they 'get it' now after revisiting videos from times past .. and I guess with us all locked up at present my big library of videos can be a good place to while away that isolation ..
cheers JH
I’m still stuck and and hit an old big Bertha wood 246 and 291 driver last round. Between you, Kirk and Todd I’m all over the place I’m between. I guess with the name, Ben Hogan I guess I’ll go ahead and play for fun and drink beer because I’ll never swing like one mentioned . 84 then 101 🤷♂️ I blame golfers elbow and too much information.
Great Videos, Thank You for your effort. You are one of the fews that understands the importance of cameras, angles and that delivers the message better than others.
Hit about 600 balls yesterday of which 45 straight, realized just now that the right arm-rib cage must have been a big part of my mistakes. Also changed grip yday...
good on ya JH.
knowledge should be free.
cheers
Hi Edoardo,
My camera work and setups are just as result of the videos just being done on on the practice tee between stuff that I do for the general roster guys that I teach, all the videos are done by setting up the camera very quickly when the opportunity presents itself to get something I am thinking about at a particular point in time.
The angles are not for the most part ideal for gauging accurate visual feedback of how I stand to the ball because the sun is where it is and I have to position myself to that end as to not be shooting into the sun and to not be hitting balls to areas where other people or 'Cows/Animals' are located .
Whatever I find out about the golf swing if I think someone might get something from it I am more than happy to let them see it and make up their own minds if they want to try it out, it doesn't cost me anything really to make the videos because it happens in between stuff I am already on the practice doing so the videos are 'freebies' ...as they should be.
Cheers JH
Yeah counter light might not give the best results at times, I was actually referring to the fact that you actually turn your body in different angles and that allows the viewer to understand much better muscle movements and impact points.
Been in the video industry for many many years and other people that shoot golf videos don't keep in mind these aspects which are crucial.
Anyways thanks again for your efforts.
A small advice for your vids, remember that if you set the audio on automatic ( meaning you letting the camera set the levels for you, the levels will look perfect on their meter level scale, but what happens is that the automatic audio level 'compresses' more the audio in result of picking up a lot more of the background noise)
Best thing is to set audio levels manually around -20 db.
Audio will sound much better and cleaner.
edoardo barzano I have the settings at -20db now and it is the best of the settings I have tried to date, the Audio is not high quality recording equipment although it is the latest Rode Filmmaker kit which is supposed to be fairly good for the money.
I am not a production guy and I just need something that is easy to set up and is fairly robust in its construction , the videos are filmed in the 'Rough' in the cow paddock most times so they naturally take on the personality of the environment I guess in that they are 'Rough' as well.
cheers JH
They re great videos, and the equipment you have is more than enough.
If you have at at -20 you'll be fine.
I actually suggested it after watching a video that might have been from couple of years ago....
Cheers...
Hey JH really enjoying your videos.Been going back and forth with channel lock and conventional and I've hit some very nice shots with channel lock.Keep em coming and thanks.
Hi Stan,
Glad there is something on my channel that you can get some good results from ..
cheers JH
What a great find. Thanks JH
If you are a Moe devotee this stuff gives some options for personal hybriding of Moe's mechanics ...
cheers JH
I'm confused. I recently purchased the kit thinking it was half the kit and kaboodle, then purchased the kaboodle thinking it was the other half. My wife says that I only purchased half a kit and kaboodle. If this is true, where can I purchase the other half of the whole kit and kaboodle, or do I have to purchase the whole kit and kaboodle?
Also, I would like more info on the whole nine yards, as I would like to purchase four and a half for now, finish paying off the whole kit and kaboodle, then purchase the other four and a half nine yards. Thanx.
Funny thing is I have the same swing and never knew about this , I made it myself same way he did , figures I am single digit handicapper and everybody laugh about my swing but I can play , is logical , the slide is important and ball position is very important
Thank you for the info on the trail leg turning clockwise. That one move seems to answers my dilemma on keeping the trail foot on the ground
Hi Jim,
Yeah that little aspect of the swing does some significant things in the swing .. you need to hit some half shots with say an 8 iron and just really drill yourself into feeling the counter rotation of the trail leg .. its hard to do initially in a full swing.. but doing some multiple shots with a half swing will give you the feeling you need for the motion ..
cheers JH
Hi JH I would like to know if the same length golf clubs still interest you I have not heard you mention them lately ? Thanks Max
Hi Max,
I think one length irons/hybrids are the best golf clubs to play without question .. one length club .. 'one' swing type ..
I hit the one length clubs a few times every week .. they are just so easy to hit .. I will b e building a very specific set of one length clubs for myself soon ..
cheers JH
Thanks for the reply, I didn't like his manner either and quite frankly I couldn't understand what he meant and how to do it anyway. Do the think Todd Graves' method is more sound?
Hi Craig,
I think the Graves method is the best for players generally because what they advocate is well explained and can be done reasonably easily , there is not the 'deep secrets' of specific personal things that Moe supposedly did, I can tell you stuff he said he did personally but they are way to hard to do for the learner, or even the very good player because they are relative to 'Moe's" capabilities and physicality.
The best way to go down the Moe mechanics road is to just apply the 'essence' of his swing mechanics and not the 'personal specifics'...the Graves method is very 'learn-able' , I think they are the best guys by far to learn the overall process of Moe's swing, at the end of the day getting a swing that lets you cut out a lot of the rotation through the ball is what Moe's swing is really about, and that's all I try to do myself .
cheers JH
Love this video
Hi JH,
I've REALLY been enjoying your new series on the recent "atomic" changes you've found in Moe's swing.
Yesterday, I was watching some video clips on Henrik Stenson and suddenly realized that he has a very interesting move that he uses to start his swing.
There is a type of squatting/sitting move followed immediately by a very interesting move of his right leg. It looks to me like he is straightening his right leg as his left knee folds in.
Anyway, I haven't seen it in slow motion so as to able to dissect it more thoroughly but it does appear that he is getting into a Moe-like move with his right leg.
If you get a chance, take a look and tell us what you think.
No doubt that Stenson has found something that has allowed him to become an amazing (if not Moe-like) ball striker.
Best regards,
Chip
Hi Chip,
Henrik has that little precursor move into his right side to make sure he gets his weight shift programmed because he used to have a very pronounced 'pickup' of the club in his early days and because he is such an free Arm swinger it was easy for him to just pick his arms up and not get enough rotational weight shift on the back swing.
I think he has the most aggressive free arm swing I have ever seen from any world class player, but if you get to aggressive with the arms on the backswing as he does its very easy to not shift the weight into the trail side as you need to to facilitate the amount of lead weight shift you need on the forward swing to balance up the support of the super aggressive free arm swing into the ball.
cheers JH
Have you ever looked at Tom Tomasello's golf swing?
Tom's swing philosophy was very simplistic relative to conventional swing mechanics ... he very much wanted the club head to create its own path by its swing inertia loadings... he was very good teacher . cheers JH
In the Normal swing they call that laying down of the club or swallowing the swing .
Hogan called it... 'Laying The club off' ... its a great way to load the club head coming down... and keep the face open so you can release as hard as you want to and not close the face through impact.
cheers jH
1atomicgolf Moe called it "the magic move"
What are your thoughts on graves golf, todd spent alot of time with moe and seems to have dedicated alot of time into teaching moes swing mechanics.
Todd knows a lot about Moe's swing .. he is a good teacher of the Moe Norman process.. and it's more of a user-friendly version of Moe's actual mechanics .. and Todd having a general normal golfers body type as opposed to Moe's short stubby type body type makes demonstrating the swing process more visually understandable than Moe's actual swing .. Todd is clearly the Authority on Moes swing these days I think ..
cheers JH
1atomicgolf 👍👌
Hi JH, I've been a long time admirer and follower of Moe's perfect mechanics and have only recently discovered your videos, which I'm really enjoying. I've read almost every book there is about Moe and would like your opinion on the part in Greg Lavern's book where he reveals Moe's most important secret move (also done by Hogan apparently) and that is the first move on the downswing being a move TOWARDS the ball with the sternum.
Hi Craig,
I haven seen that reference by Greg Lavern, I haven't read any of his stuff because he labelled everyone but himself as 'Knuckleheads' if we had the temerity to offer 'any' opinion on Moe's swing mechanics, so I have no opinion on anything that he says frankly.
I will however point out the Anatomic flaw in that statement if it was made in that specific frame of reference.
If we deduce that at the finish of the back swing Moe has turned his shoulders normally to his right and being constructed as all other Humans are his sternum is located between his shoulders which are turned at right angle to the ball line how can the sternum be the first body section to move towards the ball , how do you get the lead shoulder out of the way for the sternum to be the first responder to the downswing without the lead shoulder moving before the sternum.
Anatomically its impossible for the sternum to move independently of the shoulder girdle, ok its semantics but this is the problem with so much instruction information, its 'perception' by the person making the claims, even Moe clearly didn't do things he thought he did in his swing.
If Lavern had said Moe had the 'Feeling' his sternum was the first thing that moved to the ball on the downswing that could be accepted... but the 'feeling' of the sternum going to the ball could not have happened if the shoulder girdle did not stay closed and the proximal part of the body being the left shoulder had not initiated the oblique transverse diagonal move back to the ball line.
The sternum at the top of the back swing is facing 'away' from the ball line...if it is to be the 'first. thing to move 'towards ' the ball on the downswing it must move itself past the left shoulder girdle without the left shoulder girdle moving which is an anatomical impossibility, again not wanting to be pedantic but you just cannot use that type of description and expect it to have any acceptance level of credibility of understanding from people like myself , or anyone for that matter that understands basic human anatomy .
My own explanation would be that you could have the feeling that you were moving your sternum in an oblique direction to the ball line with the sternum maintaining its closed position inside the shoulder girdle, I would never say to feel the sternum was the 'firs't thing to move towards the ball because that conjures up the sternum as 'turning' towards the ball by itself independently which clearly would be a disaster as it would conjure up the feeling of an early opening of the sternum on the downswing which you obviously wouldnt want in Moe's swing.
If Moe had the problem of 'perceptional' swing process movements as apposed to reality I can understand other people having the same problems, 'thinking' of the sternum as being the 'first' thing to move to the ball is OK, but in reality it doesn't and cannot happen .
cheers JH
@@1atomicgolf Maybe Hogan's sternum thing just comes from the fact that he was so inside muscle focused something that I have struggled with in trying to apply of his precious teachings.
@@fellowcitizen5215 Hogan braced so hard against his trail knee/ leg which created an unbelievable stable centre of rotation ...if you look at his head and upper spine they just are glued in space and he just turns his lower body/ hips underneath that fixed rotational point ..
I always felt Hogan was thinking he wanted to turn 'inside' his vertical address alignment lines that scribed down from each shoulder into the ground ... I think he did that better than anyone who ever played the game and if you look at pictures of him from behind you see his pivot is so 'in place' vertical that he 'looks' like he is reverse pivoting into his lead leg.. but he clearly isn't ...its just that he turns so much 'in [lace' around his fixed upper spine it looks like he is reverse pivoting ..
Hogan never thought of a backswing weight 'shifting' of mass to his right side .. he just wanted to 'rotate' that mass into his trail side ..if yopu look at Sam Snead from behind he made the same type of rotating on the spot pivot .. .. he never moved his head laterally 1 inch in his backswing .. and of course neither did Hogan ..
So your assessment of Hogan wanting to key on his 'inside' musculature is right on the money .. I mentioned just that to Moe Norman about Hogan and he said he saw that in Hogan as well and he tried to do the same in his own backswing as well .. which he did to a significant degree..
The difficulty everyone has had in trying to copy Hogans swing/ pivot is that they don't realise how much flexibility Hogan had in his hip extensors ... you cannot make his type of backswing pivot without that level of hip extensor flexibility and midriff flexibility...
Jimmy Demeret called Hogan the 'Indian Rubber Man' so flexible he thought Hogan was ..
cheers Jh
@@1atomicgolf Thank you as it was very kind of you to take the time to do the reply. I was going to sell my golf stuff and give up the game as I have not played much in years. It is a wonderful game but it is the only sport I have ever taken up where you can be considered an excellent player one day by exceptional players and the next day play in a way that even hackers think you are the worst. I decided to look at Moe's swing and I found you online after I had done much study of his swing. You really know what you are talking about and now after studying Moe, watching you hit balls and your introduction to me to Parametric Acceleration and Count Yogi I cannot wait to hit some balls in preparation for spring.
@@fellowcitizen5215 I'm glad I was able to stave off you selling your golf clubs ... there is 'always' a solution to getting a golf swing that will work for 'you'.. if you are interested in Count Yogi stuff I have a couple of videos that are not public videos on some of Yogi's swing mechanics and my take on such .. if you give me your email address I will send the videos to you .. there is I think some good insight into his swing mechanics in those videos ..
cheers JH
At 16:00 when you are talking about not having a name for the move you are discussing, it looks like you are dropping the head of the club so why not call it the 'drop', or maybe even better the 'back drop'? :)
Moe called the move the vertical drop.
Kit and CA doodle buddy 👍👍👍👍
Hey JH, do you use "oversized" grips?
Hi Michael,
I don't use oversize grips at the present time .. but now that I have gone to the split 8 finger grip I will be changing over to a bigger grip .. and a parallel profile grip configuration as well .. that being the grip the same size under the bottom hand as it is under the top hand ...
The Jumbo Max grips are the best grips for oversize use by far in my opinion ..
cheers JH
Why is it that all these "SIMPLE" golf swings need you to only commit 25 to 30 perfectly performed moves in perfect sequence? So easy and simple.
I don't think I have ever said any of the swing types I have talked about are 'Easy and Simple' to replicate.. nor that any level of competance can be achieved in the application of only 25-30 shots..
Any type of gross motor body movements to be ingrained and replicated with a good degree of competancy requires repititions of significance ..
I know I do gloss over some things on occasions ..but I dont think I ever did relative to the need for commited practice time for a swing change of any significant difference..
cheers JH
Do you ever think you can explain Martins swing?
Martins swing is a lot like Lee Comeaux's swing in that they both feel the swing in a very personal way and explaining that 'feeling' is the hard part for them both... I can't pick up on the 'feelings' of those swings myself as yet which is why I don't get involved in trying to do them justice. cheers JH
I certainly believe in the Moe Norman swing ! JH takes far too long in his explanations and as a result unfortunately I fall asleep 😴
I must admit I'm not good at 'short' explanations..
cheers JH
Your swing is more like Right Sided Swing Gary Edwin rather than Moe Norman Single Plane Swing
Moe called it the vertical drop the most important move in his swing, that move is on video - just saying.
I spent time with Moe personally.. I know what 'he 'did' ...and what he called the process.... you can tell someone to just 'drop the club vertically' because that is what Moe said he did .. but if they don't know 'how' to do that it's not worth anything as a descriptional reference..
cheeers JH
Correct, that's the term Moe used for the move.
JH swing is the closest swing to Moe Norman on the internet, if not in the world. #moenorman2k
Your kidding right... I had to look at the calendar date .. I thought it was 1st April.. April Fools day ..that is if you are referring to the swing link you provided ...
JH
@@1atomicgolf I forget to write your name :D my bad
@@golfmarvell I am far from the best version of Moe Normans swing.. in fact my swing has very little resemblance to Moe Normans swing .. what 'I' do is just apply what 'I' can do as my thinking of his swing mechanics ..
Thanks for the compliment .. but it's not really deserved.. but thanks anyway ..
cheers JH
In 2001 Moe has refined/simplified his swing and narrowed his stance and abandoned that disorderly unnatural behavior what might be called extreme inside out around the body/ribs back arms lag and curtailed the legs hips movements as an extra unnecessary movements. He now clamed he is more consistent and gained 30 yards with the driver and that his arms swinging the whole club back and through the inclined circular plane and hands doing nothing, hands are just griping the club, and he says that golf is a circular motion no insides-outsides or unnecessary motion, and followed more closely to the path of the back swing's inclined circular plane, the key to Moe's swing is the acceleration thought the ball at impact with his wrist to deliver the backswing's stored elastic and gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, keep it simple stupid.
That video you saw and are referring to where Moe said he had changed his swing ...he only worked with that change for a week.. and he abandoned it after that.
'Every' golf swing is circular.. and Moe knew that ..he had an applied 'perception' that he moved the club in a linear motion.. he didn't do that ever.. and he knew that.. but he 'felt' he did that.
The Delatori process of swinging ... which is the one Moe was referring to..could not be grafted into Moe's swing dynamics realistically and after only a week he knew that.. he actually hit the ball very inconsistently whilst he was trying to adapt the swing process.
Moe reverted to his original swing process and it never changed from that moment on until his passing.
cheers JH
@@1atomicgolf I just watched Moe Norman golf swing Demo 2002 and he is still talking about and swinging the new swing and blasting
The only thing Moe did change in his swing that had any relativity to the Delatori swing principle was to soften his grip slightly and relax his shoulders .. he told me that point blank.
I was upfront with Moe when he said he wanted to implement some of the Delatori swing principles into his swing .. I just said as frankly as I could that no one has ever referred to Delatori's swing as remotely comparable in quality of strike or accuracy to that of Moe's swing.. so why try to change the considered best consistent ball striking swing of all time.
Moe just raised his eyebrows and said.. ' You are right.. everyone tells me I hit the ball better than anyone else ..so why should I change Really '..
Moe was getting old and he was losing his flexibility so the softening of his grip and shoulders did help his swing range of flexibility .. but he didn't change his baseline swing mechanics principles at all.
cheers JH