Social Justice and the Downgrade of SEBTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2019
- Jon shares about his experience and concerns for Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, the Southern Baptist Convention, and evangelicalism in general.
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Thank you so much for posting this! As a long-time SBC congregant from age six up to my mid 40s, I've noticed the subtle but progressive infiltration of SBC para-church organizations and how that spirit then spread into many of the churches themselves, especially after 2012.
Even though the SBC believes in the doctrinal priesthood of believers, it's incredibly challenging to be a lone lay-person in the church who voices opposition to a group of pastors and elders with seminary degrees, who increasingly became 'woke'. At some point, I realized that I was not going to change their minds and was being increasingly marginalized, silenced, and accused falsely of 'stirring up division' - Titus 3:10.
Unity must not be valued over truth, and sound biblical doctrine should not be side-lined to avoid offending young, 'woke' congregants (who seem to be more important than any other group). Even if your only 'division' is pointing out that the church is not following the scripture, it's easier to slander you behind your back than to engage in honest, open discussions. Conversations which cannot be controlled will be shut down, at first with thought-stopping cliches, and later by false accusations to slander your reputation, and signal others to avoid you... All of this is done without any formal church discipline occurring, it all happens in the shadows, so that you get the hint and move on.
The question I pose is this - How many people are there out there like myself, who are heart-broken in seeing the SBC, SEBTS, and other organizations in this state, and are wondering what comes next.. for ourselves and for the institutions themselves? Is a SBC schism inevitable?
I thought that the Dallas Statement would pave the way for some open discussions and hopefully resolutions, but it seems not. This sentiment and reality is discussed in this pulpit and pen, article: pulpitandpen.org/2018/12/12/the-dallas-statement-is-dead-and-john-macarthur-killed-it/
I found this so informative and interesting, and I am so very thankful that there are still folks out there that believe the way I do. I got my Bachelor's at a small Southern Baptist university in West Texas in 1986, and what you described was even happening back then.
Yes, it's been going on for a long time! Even Spurgeon recognized it!
Really encouraged to see so many people waking up to this. As a former student of SEBTS, I saw back in 2013 how they began to borrow the language of the Radical Left in order to push this Pseudo-Social Justice/Progressivism under the guise of Evangelism and Ethics. I used to like Russell Moore until he started acting more like a politician.
Although I was not raised SBC, much of my life has been centered around Baptist theology and their stance on particularly on polity and their model of church planting.
This shift in language and what is being passed down to the students was alarming. Especially on issues such as immigration and promoting the notion that illegal immigrants are refugees.
My mother came to the US legally from the Philippines. She was extremely offended and repulsed by the SJW agenda from the school.
Somehow we have conflated compassion with compromise. We have painted Jesus to be this pacifist when in fact he wasn't. Jesus was confrontational, not tyrannical, which is a major distinction.
Might I also add that if they are so offended by a border wall here on Earth, they will be extremely offended by the border wall in Heaven.
I think the offense to secure borders here are only a manifestation of the spiritual condition America finds itself in.
While here on Earth we view walls as a representation of protection, security, fortification, The Wall in Heaven serves as a representation of the separation from good and evil; boundaries not to be crossed. Evil cannot be in the presence of God.
By not securing our own borders, it reflects the apathy of our people in our understand of right from wrong. Essentially, "anything goes."
Lastly, it is the plight of irony they want to contend for human rights when it comes to issues such as human trafficking, yet more human trafficking happens at the Southern Border. 🤷🏻♂️
Hi Jon. Really enjoyed your assessment at SEBTS. I recently received a DMin at SBTS. I presently am pastoring a Bible Church not in the SBC but I am watching these exact issues from without. I have been really surprised at how this stuff has creeped into the seminaries. I did not see that much at Southern but I am alarmed at some who were there who promote much of the social justice issues. I pastored in the SBC for over 20 years and have seen how many churches have lost mission focus and have become gospel dysfunctional. Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts on these matters. We shall watch and pray. Come Lord Jesus.
I grew up in Apex and I was exposed to SEBTS pastors as a kid in the 70s. It was the most liberal SBC seminary for years. When I started the MDiv 25 years ago, the move to the right was in place with a small number of neo-orthodox professors left. I've been in the DMin since 2013 and have not had any seminars since 2015 but it is possible for SEBTS and the SBC as a whole to drift right back. It would be unfortunate considering how bad SBC churches in NC were when I was a kid. SEBTS had a great influence on me in the 90s and I'm still close to professors I knew then. I'll finish the DMin this year and my prayer, after a quarter of a century of very close ties to the institution, is the Gospel is placed above neo-Marxist identity politics of class, race, and gender.
Jon watched this again brother, after your recent release. Stay encouraged and keeping in you prayer.
This is a really good video. Thanks for making it. I emailed you brother...I'd like to chat if you have time. Hit me back.
God bless you for making this, truly. This was so informative and confirming what is coming out about the SBC and ERLC. Thank you! Your an amazing young man.
I attended the undergrad program at SEBTS (2012-2016). I recall the Kingdom Diversity murmurings sometime before my junior year (2014-15), and then the social justice agenda was pushed with a vengeance after the Charleston massacre (I was in attendance at the Confederate flag echo-chamber, in which my own spiritual father, Dr. Luther, was denounced as a "raging antisemite," a wholly anachronistic and completely uncharitable accusation). As a Lutheran, I was of course theologically distant in many areas from my professors and most of my peers. It was our differences that helped me to see how this agenda is profoundly theological. It's difficult for me to believe that the faculty is truly politically liberal -- rather, I think the idolization of mission at SEBTS propelled an "all things to all people" mentality that is willing to capitulate to the worldly issues and categories you describe with the hope that Southern Baptists will gain more of a platform for evangelism among those who have bought into the cultural zeitgeist in which we find ourselves. "Cultural engagement," which predates the social justice agenda, has always overlooked the truth that the Church is her own culture.The SBC/SEBTS leadership doesn't seem to understand that the world will never be impressed by the Church until she bows down and repudiates everything that makes her distinctly Christian. Dr. Akin and company have given a false impression to many that Southern Baptists and secularists are not so disparate (a review of the comments on the "Openly Secular" video reveals this). It's not faithful or effective proclamation if the world finds itself comfortable with the message you're proclaiming.
You're left with a deeply soteriological problem when you atone for sins by confessing your own collective guilt in the sins of past generations. My peers looked at me askance for believing that we are all condemned by Adam's sin, and yet they wanted to impute guilt to all white Americans for oppression and slavery. Sadly ironic, and deeply troubling. Thank you for helping bring this to light, Jon.
Thank you so much for this message! I’ve thought a lot about the why of this. And specifically why does the rank and file Christian put up with this? I think the major reason is sin in the lives of individual Christians. When you are sinning in your personal life, a false gospel that redefines sin and does not convict is appealing. When you can continually point the finger at others it takes the focus off you. When I can feel virtuous by doing this I don’t have to face my pornography, selfishness, adultery, idolatry, bad language etc. The real crisis is the lack of personal holiness, false professions, itching ears in the pew. I implore pastors to first repent of their own sin, and then call out sin specifically-especially the pet sins of American Christianity. I implore all Christians to repent of secret, personal sin. Go to a church where the unvarnished word is preached! True repentance is desperately needed. And that is the spark of true revival.
Very strange seeing a denomination that experienced a conservative resurgence drift so quickly back.
Someone should do a study.
I'm glad you have a very reserved but truthful take on this, as I very much wonder how much further this movement is going.
Just follow the money.
Maybe fear of losing accreditation.
I graduated from SEBTS in the fall of 2013. I have been amazed from the tweets I've seen from the president.
Definitely subscribing to this channel. And the podcast.
Thank you for the podcast, I really found it informative,and yet sad that it has gotten so bad. I hope that eyes will be opened to how far Satan has crept in. These false teachers are not hiding from Christ,but will be held accountable. Yes, Christ will go around these institutions to build His church.
Laughable. Untrue. Quite the opposite is true. One man seems right until another cross examines him. SEBTS grad here and I can tell you that this is a misstep by our brother.
"we are focusing more on those things that the World says are sins than what God says are sins" Man isnt that the truth. Great video
I feel the same for the Japan Baptist Convention. Prayers brother as I work with them to help the liberalism outside as a Southern Baptist missionary. God bless you.
Thanks brother for putting this together.
This sounds a lot like my experience at Asbury Seminary.
Thank you Jon for sharing this. It seems the lord of this world never rest and does hold any restraints against deceving us away from what Father says. Yet we know Who is faithful to lead and guide us as we wal here in His presence.
I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Thank you Jon for your courage and willingness to share your experience on these matters. Hopefully many will see this and make a better decision on the seminary they choose. It is sad when you see history repeating itself in institutions that once held the Bible as the final authority and now looking to the fad of the day to direct the vision of the mission. It makes me wonder if this is all amount money? Money that is donated from the likes of "Soros" or money that comes in from tuition from those students who have been taught this "Social Gospel" from lower education? Jon you have done a great service to the cause of Christ and his truth, your labor is not in vain. You are on the right side of history, keep strong, know that you are not alone.
Thank you for your encouragement Jay, it mean's a lot. I didn't say this in the video and probably should have 1) Yes, I think grant money has to do with it. 2) More importantly, I know a doner to SEBTS who told me about the presentation pitch made to the Southeastern Society last year. Basically, they're terrified that their denomination is shrinking. Getting minorities to come in is a last ditch effort to save the seminary and denomination etc.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast -- Since at least half of the 15 million who are claimed to be Southern Baptists seldom, if ever, bother to show up in church, thus showing themselves to be unsaved and needing to be purged from church rolls, shrinking the denomination is something we need to encourage!
Very good review, I agree with your viewpoints.
Great video... A ton of great, pertinent issues brought up. 👍
The issues you discern are widespread. The church and theological seminaries are universally affected at every level. Appreciate your honesty and clarity in highlighting them. You’re not alone. Keep contending for the faith and living with a clear conscience, however uncomfortable the kickback.
Thanks for giving your testimony that SEBTS does teach and preach a false gospel of Social Justice.
Please provide some kind of corroboration
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you for your videos warning against the social justice gospel. I was interested in going to seminary about a year ago and since I live in the south and I believe in believers baptism, SEBTS was one of my top choices, until I saw your video on SEBTS and social justice. So I began attending Bob Jones Seminary about a year ago, back before the social justice crises become full-blown. It is not a perfect school by any means but I have not heard any professors pushing SJW ideas yet. I have been warning my friends and family about the social justice gospel for about a year, but they didn't really "get it" while it was just in the celebrity Christian churches. However, this year, it started coming to many of the churches my friends go to. Now they are starting to really see what is going on, by the grace of God, and several are hooked on your videos. To me this appears to be a repeat of the social justice controversy of the 1920's, we had to read a book about it for school (Promise Unfulfilled by Rolland McCune). I am praying for you and for the SBC. I am a total theology nerd so if you want to talk shoot me an email. (Sent in email)
Great points and teaching
At about the 35:00 minute mark you talk about having a small confederate flag in honour of some of your ancestors who fought for commendable things. Are you able to expand on that a bit for me? Assume as an Australian that I know very little of the Civil War other than the association with slavery.
If you were looking at Seminaries today, where what would be your list (coming from a non-denominational evangelical background)?
Outstanding analysis!
By the way, what perspective do they, SEBTS, take on prophecy? Finding out that it is not uncommon that pretrib ministers will not allow equal time for those who hold to midtrib positions
what are some of the titles that concern you most on this topic?
There is a way to do social justice correctly and not compromise the Gospel. Unfortunately, the was SEBTS is going about it, is NOT the way to do it. There are several problems with the leadership at SEBTS. If they are wanting to be a bigger tent, that means there is a dialogue about those different views. What SEBTS is doing, is indicative of Nicolaitan approach. Ironically Patterson had the same approach from the other end of the spectrum. Where Southern Baptists need to do apologize is to the Northern Baptist for splitting the denomination for not confronting the issue of slavery and sought to ignore it. It sounds like these days social justice is following a multicultural egalitarian approach and this simply is problematic. Fundamentally, there is identity in Christ problem with where SEBTS is at in what they are doing. Also as Jon pointed out, the leadership is not in integrated churches. They need to rethink a lot of things and I pray that Jon's words would be received in the right spirit.
Yep. It starts with the professor who teaches the future pastors. Not much discernment in hiring. SEBTS needs to clean house quick.
What School(s) would you recommend for worship studies? I was looking at SEBTS, but after watching your videos, I am not sure about attending.
It's a great school. This video isn't accurate
I've been considering for a few years now about eventually going to a bible college/seminary was thinking boyce/sbts/sebts. But with the recent change I really dont want to even pump money towards them especially if im not going to learn. If i wanted to hear this stuff id continue going to the hyperliberal local university. My problem now is i have no clue of a good bible college or seminary to go to. Im almost to the point where I believe the seminaries should be within the churches. I think maybe bethlehem seminary in minisota has a decent model with how that might look.
I hope you realize that SBTS and SEBTS are two different schools, in two different cities, and they are not the same.
@@gregb6469 i do but theyre going down the same (figurative) road.
I would look into Expositors. The church I attend now is involved with them. It's a great model. Every location is under the guidance of a church. Also, Masters is under a church.
Check out Bethlehem & New Saint Andrews.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast I don't have an undergraduate degree so i dont think I could go to a seminary because if i understand correctly seminary is graduate. So I kind of think im left with new st andrews or bethlehem.
Christ's church is alive and well....Do Not allow these ungodly issues stop you from worshipping !! We Are The Church....We The Believers. Do what We've Done.....Start A Home Church. There are tons of wonderful ..Godly resources you can use as study and share info. Prayer is essential. I play guitar...a friend plays keyboard...we all sing and worship God....Once again....We The Believers ARE the church...!! Use canned music if need be...Singing without instruments is so worshipful as well...!! This is the greatest move we've ever made.....Coming Back To The Heart Of Worship....!!! Amen!! Where 2 or more are gathered in My Name.....!!
Quick précis please mate. What exactly is your point in one paragraph?
Would you be open to Thanos speaking at the chapel....since he is purple?
Mitch Hutchison Ignorant comment.
The way these people/organizations go after the "world" seems to prove Matt 7:13. People, in their laziness, find it easier to "go-with-the-flow" rather than face the truth.
I'm sad for those that miss the simple truth.
Believe on Jesus and the blood for ETERNAL LIFE.
Easy peasy.
You’ll find that “Big Tent” will mean everything BUT Creationism and Calvinism. Everything is allowed but a historical-grammatical literal hermeneutic.
Academic reputation precludes belief in miracles and the supernatural.
I’m more surprised that in 2014 you did not know how liberal Southeastern is. Talking to some old founders guys could have helped enlighten you.
Both sides of the Civil War fought for commendable things? Wow!
I would like to clarify rather clearly, as a 2012 graduate of SEBTS, there were exactly 0 Arminian professors on campus then. The Abstract of Principles prevents that. To sign the Abstract (which you must, to be a prof) you basically either need to be an honest 4 pointer, or a big liar.
I heard nothing from any professor in my 94 hours there that sounded Arminian, Pelagian, or similar.
Maybe they hired some after I graduated, most of this "woke" sjw stuff seems to have precipitated after I graduated.
That's what I thought too. I'm not sure if it was just the batch of professors I got? One professor told me he was a 3 pointer. One told me he was a 2, and that most people on campus were 2 or 3. Only one told me he was a 5 pointer. The rest didn't really take a side in class, but there were a few that seemed to lean arminian. One professor is a huge proponent of molinism and even wrote a book on it.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast lol How can you be a "two pointer"? The "points" are interdependent, you can't hold to two and not the rest (Amyraldism possibly excepted) - not unless you define things wrongly, in which case you don't really believe them.
I know the Molinist you refer to, he was one of my theology profs and I respect him, although I do disagree with Molinism. You have to understand with Molinism, there are "reformed" and "arminian" flavors. The prof we had is more reformed than not.
I would be interested in knowing if perhaps you are (in your video) conflating theistic evolution with old earth creation. The two are most definitely not the same, and it's a very common (and unfortunate) mistake for a young earth guy to assume an old earth stance necessarily requires one to be an evolutionist.
I had the same question
1) I realize there are guys who call themselves reformed that also hold to Molinism. The vast majority of reformed guys would not accept that option, but I'm willing to grant that one of the three thought he was reformed, though I never heard him say that. My point was just that it was a big tent on those issues.
2) It's a little difficult for me to address the theistic evolution thing simply because the professors I'm thinking of are all over the map. One of them very well may have been strictly old earth (the one who said Ken Ham was a charlatan), but he did not specify. The other two were open to biological evolution in some form as far as I remember.
hmm the church is destroyed now
The true church will never be destroyed!
We Are The Church....We The Believers. Do what We've Done.....Start A Home Church. There are tons of wonderful ..Godly resources you can use as study and share info. Prayer is essential. I play guitar...a friend plays keyboard...we all sing and worship God....Once again....We The Believers ARE the church...!!
Hey John I’m currently a student at SEBTS, I’ve bought your book and I’m currently reading it. But I was wondering is there anyway we could chat? I understand your busy, if it’s not possible that’s ok. Thanks so much for sharing your story and taking a stand for the Gospel. I intend to do the same. God bless you.
I don’t understand why professors feel “muzzled.” I wish they would speak out, even if it meant their jobs.
easy to say when it is not your job
Professors are a docile herd.
I'm a bit confused as to how Calvinism, Creationism, and Eschatology are the top tier issues concerning the gospel and social justice/neighbor love is secondary. Also, Extremely ambiguous as far as (mis)quoting the professors (3 of whom I have). Overall this is an extremely poor representation of SEBTS. You should reach out and have some conversations with these guys you so strongly misrepresented with little to no facts. More statements consisted of "I bet this," "It was something along those lines," or "that was his implication." If you're going to come out against SEBTS, form an argument that has a sustainable foundation. Also, why build yourself up by saying "I could say names but I'm not going to because it wouldn't be right" rather than just not mention the names. Thumbs down bro.
jonathan brandon If you destroy Genesis you destroy biblical authority. Infinitely more important than maintaining progressive social positions. Need to do some theological triage brother. Never said “I bet” anything. I’ve had a number of videos since this where I have named names, including four professors at SEBTS pushing aspects of critical theory. Your argument is with the facts sir, not me. th-cam.com/video/V0MoQejgws8/w-d-xo.html See the 38 page document in the info section of this video with nothing but primary sources. No interpretation.
u didn't vote for Pres. Trump, who did you vote for? or did you not vote?
You want to be careful? But, you don't mind critiquing a gospel centered seminary where each professor signed a declaration (2000 BFM) that allows for freedom of thought and conviction and you are picking apart isolated conversations and posts that do not reflect the greater sentiment of the seminary because your definition of "social justice" is not met. Petty.
If SEBTS were gospel centered, allowed for freedom of thought, and the negative ideas exposed in this video weren’t already mainstream on campus I certainly wouldn’t have even thought of making a video like this. You may want to watch the whole video if you haven’t and check out the other video I did recently on SEBTS (or at least read the 38 page document distilled from 100s of pages of transcripts and recent articles from the seminary itself- it’s in the info section of the “Critical Theory and Liberation Theology at SEBTS” video).
Every flavor of eschatology is welcome there...
One week your prof has one view the next another...
ROFL... Turned it off at that point.
I believe he is speaking about inconsistency. What did you believe he was saying?
People who watch this young man be careful. He is deceiving. In reality he should be true since he do not care about any religion who belief in Jesus. He is an atheists who do not belief in a God. His own religion is Atheism which he considered a way of life. I will say is a religion with ( Theology in it self)! Please quick trying to deceive people and be honest and open. You are critical with every one who does not endorse your Atheist belief. Be honest and not a Charlatan!