One thing I appreciate about all the new designs is that the weapons are actually on the correct scale for what they represent. I know that was a pitfall of creating in-game stats for another IP's concept art back in the day, but seeing that dinky pistol on the OG Griffin and having to buy in that it's a PPC was laughable, or the Shadow Hawk having that massive cannon on it's arm, and "oh, it's just a Medium Laser." The new designs did a great job of representing what they actually bring to the table while keeping a lot of the spirit of the OG designs.
@@bishopsteiner7134 In the early days of battltech the idea that machines would carry supplies in those hands made sense. helping with Logistics is one of the reason having hands, claws, and grapples made sense. But a lot of the practical uses for robots with hands never really shows up in a table top match. Its all stuff that makes sense on the logistical or practical sides of things. Like a mech with hands being used to help BUILD fortifications and move stuff off the drop ships. People dont like to talk about the fact that mechs are also FORKLIFTS and CRANES when not in active combat.
Regarding the Wolverine briefcase/ammo pack. Remember that the Hatchetman is also featured and at the time there were no rules for hatchets. People just assumed it had a permanently attached club or something. Of course it's a legacy from Dougram, where apparently the model carried a spare ammo pack for its gun and I assume that it was yet another thing BT at the time glossed over. I recall people making house rules saying that the Wolverine had another 20 spare rounds, took a round to reload and couldn't use its arm until the ammo was either dropped or used to reload. There are mentions in the fluff that certain mechs can be quickly reloaded, by other mechs in the field if necessary. That's why the TR3025 had ammo carriers and coolant trucks. It seems the intent was to add the option to step back and cool down your mech or refresh your ammo when needed.
The Marauder is really awesome, I would totally field a lance of both unseen and new classic Marauders, with even more Marauder IIC filling up the rest of the lance
The unseen marauder on the video thumbnail honestly doesn't even look like it should be the same weight as the new classic. The legs and especially the arms look so much smaller and the torso looks smaller as well. In my head I like to think of the unseen marauder as a glass cannon medium mech, and the new classic version is a bulked up evolution that has similar firepower, but it has enough armor to take a beating.
@restitvtororbis5330 oh yes, the Unseen Murauder has extremely long and spindly arms and legs, which fora heavy mech is kinda silly. Like, it looks like it could be some absurd glass canon Light Mech with insanely oversized guns and no armor to let it carry them.
For me, I did not really grow up on Battletech apart from MechAssault. As a result I almost entirely prefer most of the updates, except for the ones that are basically identical. They have a much closer and IMO more aesthetically appealing art style. There's a few exceptions though, the Archer, Shadow Hawk, and Wolverine look awesome to me (Edit, D: thats my favorite of the bunch)
@@PeterBoddy to be fair to accuracy, I mostly stopped playing MWO a few years ago. When Faction Play didn't work out I lost a lot of drive for it. But I think MWO has had a great run, kept me playing for years and is still going. I play a lot of tabletop battletech these days though.
Some of em absolutely, others gotta say had some downgrades. Also the Dasher no longer looks like it's trying to punch VTOLs and that's a sin. Embrace the weird Shimmy. EMBRACE THE WEIRD.
Dude. You're speaking my language in a lot of cases in this. I've been playing BT since the 90s, and the Unseen have a great look to them in some cases, look better in miniature form, and some of the new art is decent.
From Macross/Robotech in order, we have a VF-1A (Stinger), VF-1S (Wasp), VF-1S + FAST Pack (Phoenix Hawk), Phalanx Destroid (Rifleman), VF-1A Armored Pack (Crusader), Spartan Destroid (Archer), Tomahawk Destroid (Warhammer), Zentradi Gaulg Officer's Pod (Marauder). All of these are timeless classics, Super Dimension Fortress Macross was a major ground-breaking series that was poorly handled here in the west, but it's spirit does live on through Battletech.
Actually, I had to dig out my old Robotech player's handbook. And the Phoenix Hawk is actually a super veritech fighter. The only change to the Wasp is actually they just moved the laser over with no hand. And the Crusaders actually veritech with armor, which can be blown off after they fires off all its missiles. The Warhammers actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is actually called the Spartan. And you can see the Valkyrie is also loosely based on a veritech. Even the Ostscout Ostroc and the Ostsol are all loosely based on the Zentraedi battle pods.
There were also the Japanese edition of Battletech which had a new set of Studio Nue designs to replace the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe ones which were used complete with insignia from the original anime in the first few editions and were better looking than the Tech Read out version.
Don’t forget Alex Iglesias’s designs for Piranha Games. Some of them are damn good in their own right. I love his Raven and Atlas. Edit: New Phoenix Hawk wins by a mile.
I like his thunderbolt, wolverine, the firestarter, and I'll second the Atlas. There were a couple I didn't like as much though. I far and away prefer the CGL highlander and nightstar.
@@Cman21921 They're overall too blocky and similar in design. Most of the actuator setups don't function either. The BattleMechs are made by different companies which have different design aesthetics. This aspect is totally lost. The current redesigns for the miniatures capture that essence quite well while maintaining a modern look.
I do love the older "retro-futuristic" look of most mechs but I'm thankful for all the new designs. You'd think the ones that could be reproduced would have gone through new iterations as per their timeline in lore.
@@robgraham5320 Wolverine Ammo reload for the next tom is done manually, i guess they were envisioning handheld weapons (griffin, phawk, battlemaster...)
You cannot grok the art design of the originals without seeing them in their original media. That means watching _Crusher Joe_ for the Locust and _Fang of the Sun Dougram_ for the Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Wolverine, Goliath, and Thunderbolt in addition to _SDF Macross_ for the rest. You'll see that weapon systems in the source materials were omitted or misinterpreted (e.g. Warhammer loses its torso missiles and head MGs, missiles across the board are actually how Rockets are used in the game, obvious guns are labelled as lasers for no good reason), as are the ability to take damage (everyone gets one-shot, including named characters from time to time) because BT uses tanks as its paradigm of play when the source material is either jets or infantry (neither known for durability under fire; being able to limp home isn't the same as no-selling direct hits). Then there are the WTF mistakes. Several designs take what are clearly smoke launchers (Locust, Shadow Hawk, etc.) and call them guns, lasers, or SRMs. That Thunderbolt, in reality, has a rocket pod and an autocannon as per source material (and piss-weak armor). So do most _Dougram_ designs, with the title unit (the Shadow Hawk in BT) being one of the few exceptions (and it only had TWO guns instead of one as well as far superior armor). Weapon placement is also WTF because of rules issues. The Marauder's big gun is clearly CT-mounted, but you can't do that in BT by the book hence it's either RT or LT, a problem that persists with the M2. Designs that clearly use hand-held weapons (which are also used in melee in the source material) don't Because Reasons, and designs that have hand weapons in the game don't have proper mountings that would prevent them being shot off before being used Because Reasons. Because of all these legacy issues, the clear direction that the game went and is going (walking tank game) had to deal with analog spaghetti code in the form of all sorts of bullshit workarounds to Make It Make Sense when the smart thing to do is to just rotate the designs out of the game permanently in favor of replacements that do the same job but don't have these problems. A snap decision over 40 years ago is now a lasting headache that either requires a significant rules revision, a significant content revision, or both to permanently fix- and none of these options will make everyone happy.
@@TrailblazerBT Fang of the Sun Dougram is actually a really good mecha/political drama show. Currently, all 75 episodes are available on youtube fully subtitled. th-cam.com/play/PLm_615Q2LgcBdzirnajuX1XVMfOhUVOgE.html You do yourself a disservice by not learning about the true origins of some of the original Battletech designs.
If you want to compare the "originals" you should check out the plastic kits originally sold with Battle tech. They were 1/200 Macross Valkyries and Destroids and 1/144 Fang of the Sun Dougram.
I haven't seen the new Unseen art, so thank you for showcasing it... it is pretty good IMO. I kind of wish they made the feet bigger like the OG unseen, as that and the legs seem to be some of the bigger differences to me.
This was what the fans were looking for. This and also what mechs each faction primarily uses. I am glad they finally got around to the tech readouts on the factions.
Knowing the entomology of the Unseen. I'm glad Battletech puts its own spin on it. Growing up, people who weren't familiar with Battletech called it "The one that ripped off Robotech". (Technically, Battletech shares more DNA with Dougram, but whateves.) So I'm glad Battletech was able to find its own voice when reimaging the unseen.
Not so much rip off but licensed from Big West. Of note, when they went to distribute to Japan, they had to replace those licensed designs as their license only covered territories outside of Japan.
@@downix I saw those designs years ago. They re-used some for the Solaris VII boxset illustrations for some hero 'mechs. A few of them looked pretty cool.
@@downix They weren't licensed from Big West, that was the problem. FASA obtained the license from Revell which made models/toys outside Japan. Probem was Revell wasn't supposed to be able to do that.
Good content…keep em coming. Gen X here, and started playing CBT in middle school 35+ years ago (dating myself to explain my perspective). Regardless of your individual tastes, It’s worth newer fans’ time to search some of the old anime stuff that FASA used, before all the Harmony Gold legal drama. For historical appreciation if nothing else. Crusher Joe (locust…and I still think OG locust is the best) Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs (shadowhawk, griffin, wolverine, t-bolt, battlemaster, scorpion, etc) Of course Macross/Robotech veritechs, (stinger/wasp/Phoenix hawk), destroids (Warhammer/rifleman/longbow/archer) and the BAMF Glaug (marauder)
Our unit favorites were the Thunderbolt (we retrofitted ours like the Eridani version) and a salvaged Wolverine-K (it was an absolute menace to vehicles since the SRM was able to cause all sorts of critical damage).
@@TrailblazerBT Actually, the Phoenix Hawkins is actually a super veritech fighter from the anime Robotech or Macross. And the Crusader is actually a veritech fighter in armor. The armor can be blown off after it fires off all its missiles. And the Warhammer is actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is called the Spartan. I had to dig out my Robotech handbook and look that up it's a fun game, but you die really quick sometimes.
@TrailblazerBT Cool, I didn't know that. I learn something new every day. Well then, Trailblazer, you have a great and awesome day. Keep up the great videos.
I grew up with 3025, so have a soft spot for those designs (I remember buying the original Battletech an Citytech boxes with cardboard cutouts). But I’m pretty impressed with the new design language. All those FASA lead minis were passed on to others. It makes me smile thinking back on the good old days and how a new generation of players is keeping the game alive. Hell, it boggles the mind that I used to play BTech ASCII Muds/Mux over a dial up modem.
RE: The Shadow Hawk - The Mini had the same circular LRM pod that came with the Griffin, and the full-kit Dougram had it in the anime. It looked good with it. I personally liked to pretend that the Pod housed both the LRM-5 and the SRM-2 together, instead of that goofy panel showing the LRM in the right breast, and the smoke dischargers being the SRM-2. It especially worked for upgraded designs later.
For me, only the Locust, Crusader and the Marauder were where I wasn't _quite_ sure, but ultimately I think the new classics are universally better. I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I believe it comes down to two things: line thickness in the original art, and disproportionate legs. Having so little difference in line thickness in the OG artwork makes it really hard for the various bits to stand out, and it all sorta blends together for me. As for the legs, they're just _way_ too chunky. The Archer in particular looks severely mismatched with its legs and hips; like they're twice the size of the torso and arms.
I’m a fairly new player but I am totally in love with the classic BT art style. The old designs have a sort of awkwardness to them, with lanky limbs and oversized guns, that’s just really charming to me. I appreciate that most of the Iron Wind Metals designs are more in line with the classic style. I think the new designs are perfectly serviceable, but most mechs feel overdesigned to me. With all of the added detail and blockiness, I find that many mechs sort of blend together and aren’t very distinguishable. They don’t have the charm that the classic designs have.
You weren't showing the original unseen Archer, but a second, reseen version. The original Archer had its cockpit on top, as it can be seen on the old CityTech box. Together with the Warhammer those were the most menacing mechs of the original mech set.
I personally like the new designs more, since I like the blocky war machine look of them, but the old designs are charming to me because they're relics of their time. They are VERY 80s.
I agreed with you concerning the Rifleman model right up until I finished painting mine. The mini looks fantastic imo, they did a great job giving it easy to paint details that really pop
If the new Locust had the old cockpit, it would be perfect. On the new Stinger, I miss the gun pod looking laser. I do really miss the ball turret on the Wolverine and wish it had carried over as well. What got me into Battletech was finding a copy of Camospecs back in the early 90s and seeing the original unseen Wolverine and reading the Eridani Light Horse fluff. Between the two I was hooked. Overall I think they did a great job on the new mechs.
I'll have to side for all the original designs. The redesigns are sleeker in some cases, but knowing where the originals were taken from is part of the attraction for me. Especially the Marauder. It was Khyron's machine. The backstabber! I can't see one and not remember that description for Khyron. I am still a big fan of Robotech and those borrowed/stolen designs bring back great memories.
I love that New Classics mechs retain some of that original DNA (like I can clearly see Kawamori design on Warhammer as it literally looks like an update on original Tomahawk where Unseen version just looks like a fanart attempt at it for some reason. And Tomahawk/Warhammer is nothing short of Iconic mech for me) Marauder tho looks extra cool because it looks like "What if Humans designed Glaug and not Zentradi?" - it has this UNS blocky design seen in Tomahawk, Armored Valkyrie, Spartan and Defender but still retains original design that in Macross was even more round with that odd ringular main camera
Being a BT player from the early part of the 80’s and having collected (if making the unit size IS “standard” I have about two brigades of minis from all iterations of the game. I agree with the fact that CGL has done a great job bringing back the look of these awesome mechs. I also imho, agree that these designs are not flawless, but it seems to me the designers love the OG mechs and wanted to honor them while fitting them into the new design style the old metal minis can’t achieve. Also I like how CGL integrated the project phoenix mechs into cannon and allow players to take it or leave it as they choose. I never thought that I would be happier with the game 40 years into it, but CGL managed to keep it going
I appreciate you comparing the ACTUAL unseen instead of the way most people try to romanticize the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe higher end art and models, instead of what we actually had. Can't wait til the latest Kickstarter fulfills, hopefully it will let you do this comparison, but between the actual Miniatures of the two.
I generally like most of the redesigns - and there are usually just few minor elements that do not quite like, but I struggle to find anything I outright hate. The ball turret on the Wolverine, for example is something I miss in the new design. I always saw it as something similar to the hull autocannon of modern attack helicopters and found it to be a nice feature. Also - the thing I find missing in the revised Locust (and Cicada redesign as well) is the characteristic combined leg/arm joint that was was very characteristic for these mechs - with hull basically "hanging" from leg mounts. Instead we have a more conventional "chicken" design. But these are really small gripes if I'm being honest.
The new designs are good. I find most of them better, despite growing up with the originals. I'm not sure if the Project Phoenix mechs are bad, but they don't come close to matching the Battletech asethetics. It's almost like they were going out of their way to not match any other mech. There are some mechs that I never used because of the designs. The Wolverine and King Crab stand out in memory. Then I encountered them in Megamek and the BT video games. Now they're favorites.
The Crusader really should have two of those antennae on the sides of its head instead of one in the center, because when we saw the GBP-1S in Macross, it was attached to Hikaru Ichijo's VF-1J Valkyrie.
Great video & hope you do more along these lines. I'm 46 & just got into BT about 18 months ago. I played MW since 97, played ClickyMech in the early 2000s, but first came across BT in the late 80s & instantly fell in love with it seeing the mechs & the record sheets as there was so much to them, but only just had a chance to start playing. I was playing last Sun, and an old Grognard in our group was running a Ral Partha Locust & with the nice but likely paint job the mech just looked so good surrounded by new plastics. Whike I may disagree with a couple of your choices (like the Archer) I do agree some of the old mechs look great & I completely understand the nostalgia some of you may have for the old designs. I may have issue with some of the recent things CGL has done, but I am very thankful for what they have done & continue to do when it comes to updating the art & minis. I've heard they have had arguments over the location of antenna on the new designs, & I really appreciate the attention to detail & keeping the new designs at least at the core true to the original, but just better & maybe even a bit more "realistic".
Love hearing people's Battletech stories. One of the top ranked MRC players was just telling me a similar story, that he played MW2 in the old days but only recently got into tabletop BT
I love most of the Unseen designs, but they are dated in a way that is unavoidable. I love the more militaristic designs of the newer look, but you're correct, at least none of them are those horrendous Project Phoenix redesigns. Edit: The only good Project Phoenix design was the Rifleman, which actually looks cool as hell.
Most Project Phoenix mechs were not good, but for me there is one great exception: The Thunderbolt. And you know why? Because it's the only model that correctly places the LRM launcher on the right side. Jesus Christ, I cannot stand the fact that cgl did not match the new classic with the data sheet.
The one thing I really wish they would have adressed when designing the new classic mechs is the wrong placement of components. The Thunderbolt has its LRM 15 in the RT in the rules, and the Marauder has its autocannon in the RT (because it wouldn't fit in the CT). They could have easily changed that up on the model. I can't really say if that would have destroyed the aesthetics, but I don't think it would have. I disagree with you on the Shadow Hawk and the Archer, but otherwise I think you are pretty spot on.
The biggest problem with the new redesigns is how they all look so similar in style. There's no "soul" in them. They don't look like they were manufactured by different companies in different star nations.
I shifted some of the manufacturers around. Earthwerks did all the Dougram designs except for the Quads. Those still stayed with Brigadier. The Destroids from Macross were all from Starcorps. The Veritechs/Vakyries (including the Crusader) were all originally General Mechanics. GM designed the Valkyrie then licensed it to Corean to free up room for bigger 'mechs (also I decided to give the Valkyrie a VF-1J head) Shocked that, that Veritech/Valkyrie never got any representation. I was torn about the Ost series. I had them stay with Ostmann, who would later sue GM over the Marauder. I still saw the Ostmanns as keeping that Regult/Zentraudi Battlepod look. You can still see the remnants of that look in the leg design. There were exceptions because those might have been smaller contractors who licensed the design.
In all fairness the mostly horrendous reseen designs from 2002 were mostly an afterthought by the then custodians of Battletech, that being Wizkidz to simply fill out blank pages in rules books. At the time they were far more interested in pushing Mechwarrior Dark Age with a whole new set of designs and were simply just throwing out quickly thought up redesigns to fill in for the images they were no longer allowed to use. With a strong focus on making scaled dropships and 3D terrain pieces, all in an attempt to compete with Warhammer 40K, which was extremely popular at the time. Meanwhile, Wizkidz never even bothered with model reprints of the old mechs, instead releasing the IIC and 2.0 versions of the miniatures instead, which at the time already had good looking designs which were distant enough in appearance from the unseen originals to not infringe copyright. Not that they really had to worry about that considering the situation at the time, since Battletech was owned by a big scary toy company, so HG wouldn't of even dared to copyright troll them over the designs, so I don't understand why they even cared to try to begin with, I mean Mattel didn't care and kept using the design they got for the entire run of Transformers and to this day and HG never bothered them once, know why? Because they're a rich company. Soon as Battletech was back in the hands of guys who couldn't afford to fight HG in court a decade after Wizkidz, guess what, HG went after it again. That is what copyright trolls do. Wizkidz were in a position where they could just use the unseen and HG couldn't afford to do anything about it, so I don't even know why they even tried to come up with redesigns, they should of just used the originals and laughed in $$$.
Idk why the new locust has a reinforced antennae on it. I feel like it should be a big spindly thing. Otherwise, the redesigned cockpit looks so much sleeker and more aggressive and I dig it.
All of the new models are a win for me. I've known about battletech for 20 years but the models always looked a bit silly for me. The new redesigns are what finally got me into the game.
I play mw5 with a mod that inputa some of the older models into the game.ill admit alot are pretty cool but i do enjoy the more bulky tank armor plat style its evolved into, has giving battletech its own look of western mech as apposed to slim sleek eastern mech.
The old mechs are just the best.. albeit Battletech did some upsies in atributing weapons to the the original japanese mechs, except for the veritech stuff.. for LAMs it just makes more sense to take an avoid shape and do less transformation then full on fighter form to mech in 3 stages
Without a doubt the new art and sculpts look much better. While I enjoy that the Unseen were from classic Japanese anime series, they definitely are from the 80s and look it. It's 2024 and BattleTech deserves a modern update and we definitely got it!
I got Battletech mixed up with Robotech. I thought the boxset with the unseen Warhammer on the box cover was the Tomahawk from Robotech. Been in BT since then. I do have to say the new art and the way Battletech mechs were bulky I like most that look like they couldn't be made by slimmer armor.
If there's anything that I think the new designs could take away from the old, it's that a bit of "War of the Worlds tripod" vibe isn't a bad thing. Not every mech needs to be chunky as hell, these are highly mobile far-future machines.
Honestly, after years of being disappointed in the various attempts at 'reseens' (Jesus that project phoenix Marauder was trash), I was pleasantly surprised at how hard CGL nailed it. I love the original designs, I'm a fan of Macross and Dougram, and I've been in the game since the 90s but the new ones all look good and fit in nicely with the modern aesthetics
I've been introduced to Battletech by the HBS video game so I am biased when it comes to mech appearance. But the way it is described in the lore is a mix of old and new. The stinger for example, in the original GDL trilogy carries it's laser like a hand held rifle. But the marauder has always been described as having the AC5 in it's side torso as opposed to center top mounted. Also the old designs didn't look like they could endure the damage described in the novels by just being built out of future steel or whatever. They looked like they work thanks to some Clark tech super material. I like the new look very much, for almost all mechs. The battlemaster is the only standout for me, it looked so much better with the bubble glass cockpit and pushed out chest. It looked like a master of battle. The new model looks like a brick. It looks like a derivative of the shootist.
Dont forget that the Unseen Mechs are mostly ALL plastic Kits and were designed as such with some exceptions(like Urban Mech)from Bandai and other japanese Kit Manufacturers that were designed for Robotech and MAcross before Battletech existed!So between the unseen and the NC are lying over 40 years!Most of the NEW Classics look to bulky!Greetings from a from the beginning BT player!
Honored to hear your thoughts on this! 🫡 And thanks for your great work, it's really helped revitalize the game, which great for everybody. Also loved your character art for MW Destiny!
I just want to add that I like new Phoenix hawk more that any other iteration. it's just perfect IMO. I like new Shadow hawk design more. And I have to say that I really like new Marauder. And I must add that I like PGI Marauder even more.
I've been playing since it was called Battledroids (1984). I actually agree with Trailblazer for the most part with a few exceptions. 1.I consider the Shadowhawks equal because the original medium laser was way out of scale. 2.I consider the Wolverines equal. The new version is more accurate to the stats but the old is more accurate to some source materials. 3.I consider the Riflemans equal. I'm used to the old ascetic as much as anyone but the new is recognizable as a Rifleman AND more accurate to the stats as well as some source material. 4.I consider the Archers as equal. I prefer the beefier build of the newer one but maybe they went a little to beefy. Especially with the arms. Stinger, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk all have 1 thing in common that could be a make or break comparison. The new classics do NOT yet have an LAM version. The IWM LAMs currently available are from TRO 3085. They were abominations made years before the new classics.
I have played BattleTech since the early 90s, started with that glorious TRO 3025 as my very first BT book, a gift from a friend, even before I owned any rulebooks. And as someone who gets really picky about design choices, I got bored of many of these mechs super fast. The fact that so many of them were cobbled together from several different anime series and mixed human and alien designs, meant that there was no common sense, no common design language, all rolled up into weird japanese mecha designs (stupid unicorn horn antennas, LAMs and other nonsense). Glad the new designs are out. They look like "REAL mechs".
Just a friendly reminder. Have whatever preferences you want, but don’t make somebody else feel like shit because they aren’t using what is your opinion of the “correct version” of a chassis. If you do this, you are the problem. Flat out, no questions asked. Do not risk driving people away from the game because you have to make some sort of snide comment about their PP Warhammer (or whichever chassis it might be). That is what they introduced to the universe with, and they probably feel the same way about it that some feel about the “unseen”.
I really like the newer sculpts and aesthetics, the older ones look very... unusual. Granted im younger so I dont have a lot of nostalgia for the ANCIENT sculpts and designs.
For me it's 11 - 0 for the new classics x) The way the new designs are made are right on the spot for me so.... xD The only unseen that i found cool are those stolen from Robotech. But that's because i'm a fan of macross design :) Have a good day ^^
you should do an evolution of the paper/card stock to metal and plastics. some of these, like the locust, paper/card stock, I have 5 versions, and the metal/plastic, I have 6 versions. being able to see all of these in a line would be great.
I still don't understand how the non Macross/RoboTech stuff became unseen .......... And you're wrong the Shadow Hawk is the best of the three 55 tonners , better than a Wolverine at range , the best at medium range and better than the Griffin up close .
@@TrailblazerBT oh I'm not saying your not . I just question conventional wisdom on it . I've only recently come around on the Shadow Hawk's flexibility myself
Legitimately, I find it incredibly heartening that a Battletech fan doesn't know about the unseen debacle. It's like I've been teleported to a utopian future where they have to look up what 'racism' is, and after reading the dictionary description think that it's some kind of archaic fashion dispute.
Does anyone else find it odd that he is talking about the "miniatures" and how they look on the table the whole time, but is displaying drawings for comparison, rather than the actual miniatures? Other than that oddity, I enjoyed it
It's a good point, but I don't have all the minis myself and I didn't want to use unpainted versions or painted ones that other non-CGL people had done, so I used the TRO images instead. There aren't really Camo Specs pictures of the Unseen minis anymore.
Fun video subject. Thank for the content and sharing your opinion What are your feelings about LAMs in the BTech cannon? If they are unseen AND forgotten then the New Classics missing the jet fighter center torso won’t be missed. As a fan of Robotech, who transitioned to Battle Droids which became Tech, the Crusader is an armored Veritech. Its missile alpha strike in the animation was epic. Sadly the translation into the unseen version missed the mark for me
My favorites were the veritech looking mechs, as well. But you forgot the Valkyrie! I prefer all of the original Unseen on all of them... But the new ones do look neat.
Will probably do some more unseen mechs eventually, including the Valk. I thought the original 14 was a good place to draw the line for one video though.
Mostly I think I agree with you... But I have to disagree on the Rifleman and the Archer, the new ones don't look like they have weak spindly arms, they look like the walking tanks they are. And the Rifleman from Macross had a pair of lasers on each side, by using different looking weapons it stresses that the Large laser and AC/5 are different weapons.
I will not hear this blasphemy to laser ball-turret Wolverine. He carries a briefcase with extra ammo so he can slap people with it.
It's my favorite Unseen I felt so bamboozled when I saw it lol
The Laser ball is awesome, I bet some mechwarriors ride a Wolverine simply so they can grab a joystick and just aim it manually ...
the older one feels like he is wearing the classic evil bisnes man suit seems mutch more fun to shoot at but maybe that is just me^^
@@rotwang2000 100% it is a beautiful thing.
and the Unseen wolverines briefcase AKA the magazine reload for the AC
One thing I appreciate about all the new designs is that the weapons are actually on the correct scale for what they represent. I know that was a pitfall of creating in-game stats for another IP's concept art back in the day, but seeing that dinky pistol on the OG Griffin and having to buy in that it's a PPC was laughable, or the Shadow Hawk having that massive cannon on it's arm, and "oh, it's just a Medium Laser." The new designs did a great job of representing what they actually bring to the table while keeping a lot of the spirit of the OG designs.
I really liked the side by side comparisons. IMO the Thunderbolt got the biggest cosmetic upgrade
Exactly. The original look took literally YEARS for me to like... Those gorilla arms were quite the hurdle.
But the new one looks SWEET
unseen Wolverine is holding a magazine for the AC in the left hand
Yep!
I like to think it is holding its lunch box.
THAT'S MY PURSE. I DONT KNOW YOU!
huh.. and yet it's AC ammo is not stored in the right or left arm... but right torso.. so uh, how doe sit use that spare magazine?
@@bishopsteiner7134 In the early days of battltech the idea that machines would carry supplies in those hands made sense. helping with Logistics is one of the reason having hands, claws, and grapples made sense. But a lot of the practical uses for robots with hands never really shows up in a table top match. Its all stuff that makes sense on the logistical or practical sides of things. Like a mech with hands being used to help BUILD fortifications and move stuff off the drop ships. People dont like to talk about the fact that mechs are also FORKLIFTS and CRANES when not in active combat.
The original Locust was a small 1 metre tall security robot from the anime Crusher Joe.
Hahaha I didn't know it wasn't even a mech
Looks to be about 12-14 feet tall, not 1 meter.
It's name "Ostall".
@@emilmlodnicki3835 That's because you're lookin at the redrawn version by Duane Loose, not the original one from the anime lol
I was looking for the anime.sun of fang is nice
Regarding the Wolverine briefcase/ammo pack. Remember that the Hatchetman is also featured and at the time there were no rules for hatchets. People just assumed it had a permanently attached club or something.
Of course it's a legacy from Dougram, where apparently the model carried a spare ammo pack for its gun and I assume that it was yet another thing BT at the time glossed over. I recall people making house rules saying that the Wolverine had another 20 spare rounds, took a round to reload and couldn't use its arm until the ammo was either dropped or used to reload. There are mentions in the fluff that certain mechs can be quickly reloaded, by other mechs in the field if necessary. That's why the TR3025 had ammo carriers and coolant trucks. It seems the intent was to add the option to step back and cool down your mech or refresh your ammo when needed.
The Marauder is really awesome, I would totally field a lance of both unseen and new classic Marauders, with even more Marauder IIC filling up the rest of the lance
Yeah they all look great. You should reconstitute Miller's Marauders!
@@TrailblazerBT Oh damn, I didn't even know these guys existed, they are awesome!
The unseen marauder on the video thumbnail honestly doesn't even look like it should be the same weight as the new classic. The legs and especially the arms look so much smaller and the torso looks smaller as well. In my head I like to think of the unseen marauder as a glass cannon medium mech, and the new classic version is a bulked up evolution that has similar firepower, but it has enough armor to take a beating.
RIP Barbers Marauders
@restitvtororbis5330 oh yes, the Unseen Murauder has extremely long and spindly arms and legs, which fora heavy mech is kinda silly.
Like, it looks like it could be some absurd glass canon Light Mech with insanely oversized guns and no armor to let it carry them.
For me, I did not really grow up on Battletech apart from MechAssault. As a result I almost entirely prefer most of the updates, except for the ones that are basically identical. They have a much closer and IMO more aesthetically appealing art style. There's a few exceptions though, the Archer, Shadow Hawk, and Wolverine look awesome to me (Edit, D: thats my favorite of the bunch)
The PPC on the new Griffon tips the scale in its favour IMHO
Anthony Scroggins and CGL have done a great job with re-imagining the unseen 'mechs.
And the dood plays MWO to this day.
@@PeterBoddy to be fair to accuracy, I mostly stopped playing MWO a few years ago. When Faction Play didn't work out I lost a lot of drive for it. But I think MWO has had a great run, kept me playing for years and is still going. I play a lot of tabletop battletech these days though.
@@ShimmeringSword Ooooo its you. I love your art, especially with the Ranger stuff you do
Some of em absolutely, others gotta say had some downgrades. Also the Dasher no longer looks like it's trying to punch VTOLs and that's a sin. Embrace the weird Shimmy. EMBRACE THE WEIRD.
Dude. You're speaking my language in a lot of cases in this. I've been playing BT since the 90s, and the Unseen have a great look to them in some cases, look better in miniature form, and some of the new art is decent.
From Macross/Robotech in order, we have a VF-1A (Stinger), VF-1S (Wasp), VF-1S + FAST Pack (Phoenix Hawk), Phalanx Destroid (Rifleman), VF-1A Armored Pack (Crusader), Spartan Destroid (Archer), Tomahawk Destroid (Warhammer), Zentradi Gaulg Officer's Pod (Marauder). All of these are timeless classics, Super Dimension Fortress Macross was a major ground-breaking series that was poorly handled here in the west, but it's spirit does live on through Battletech.
Actually, I had to dig out my old Robotech player's handbook. And the Phoenix Hawk is actually a super veritech fighter. The only change to the Wasp is actually they just moved the laser over with no hand. And the Crusaders actually veritech with armor, which can be blown off after they fires off all its missiles. The Warhammers actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is actually called the Spartan. And you can see the Valkyrie is also loosely based on a veritech. Even the Ostscout Ostroc and the Ostsol are all loosely based on the Zentraedi battle pods.
There were also the Japanese edition of Battletech which had a new set of Studio Nue designs to replace the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe ones which were used complete with insignia from the original anime in the first few editions and were better looking than the Tech Read out version.
Oh yeah I saw those, that's another level of anime looking
I believe they were drawn by the main mech designer for the Armored Core games. I love a lot of them I'd buy miniatures of them if I could.
Don’t forget Alex Iglesias’s designs for Piranha Games. Some of them are damn good in their own right. I love his Raven and Atlas.
Edit: New Phoenix Hawk wins by a mile.
I won't forget these designs. They look awful. The current redesigns for tabletop however are very good.
I like his thunderbolt, wolverine, the firestarter, and I'll second the Atlas. There were a couple I didn't like as much though. I far and away prefer the CGL highlander and nightstar.
@@HelmutKohlrabi The Piranha games models look awful? Why do you say that? I like the sort of chunky and "realistic" look of them.
@@Cman21921 They're overall too blocky and similar in design. Most of the actuator setups don't function either. The BattleMechs are made by different companies which have different design aesthetics. This aspect is totally lost.
The current redesigns for the miniatures capture that essence quite well while maintaining a modern look.
I do love the older "retro-futuristic" look of most mechs but I'm thankful for all the new designs. You'd think the ones that could be reproduced would have gone through new iterations as per their timeline in lore.
The Briefcase on the wolverine hand is supposed to be an AC 5 Magazine.
Correct the T-10 Blockhead carried a projectile launcher unit with a detachable ammo cassette. (Fang of the Sun: Dougram)
@@robgraham5320 Wolverine Ammo reload for the next tom is done manually, i guess they were envisioning handheld weapons (griffin, phawk, battlemaster...)
I will still vote for my classic unseens.
You cannot grok the art design of the originals without seeing them in their original media. That means watching _Crusher Joe_ for the Locust and _Fang of the Sun Dougram_ for the Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Wolverine, Goliath, and Thunderbolt in addition to _SDF Macross_ for the rest.
You'll see that weapon systems in the source materials were omitted or misinterpreted (e.g. Warhammer loses its torso missiles and head MGs, missiles across the board are actually how Rockets are used in the game, obvious guns are labelled as lasers for no good reason), as are the ability to take damage (everyone gets one-shot, including named characters from time to time) because BT uses tanks as its paradigm of play when the source material is either jets or infantry (neither known for durability under fire; being able to limp home isn't the same as no-selling direct hits).
Then there are the WTF mistakes. Several designs take what are clearly smoke launchers (Locust, Shadow Hawk, etc.) and call them guns, lasers, or SRMs. That Thunderbolt, in reality, has a rocket pod and an autocannon as per source material (and piss-weak armor). So do most _Dougram_ designs, with the title unit (the Shadow Hawk in BT) being one of the few exceptions (and it only had TWO guns instead of one as well as far superior armor).
Weapon placement is also WTF because of rules issues. The Marauder's big gun is clearly CT-mounted, but you can't do that in BT by the book hence it's either RT or LT, a problem that persists with the M2. Designs that clearly use hand-held weapons (which are also used in melee in the source material) don't Because Reasons, and designs that have hand weapons in the game don't have proper mountings that would prevent them being shot off before being used Because Reasons.
Because of all these legacy issues, the clear direction that the game went and is going (walking tank game) had to deal with analog spaghetti code in the form of all sorts of bullshit workarounds to Make It Make Sense when the smart thing to do is to just rotate the designs out of the game permanently in favor of replacements that do the same job but don't have these problems. A snap decision over 40 years ago is now a lasting headache that either requires a significant rules revision, a significant content revision, or both to permanently fix- and none of these options will make everyone happy.
Love the detail here, lots of great thoughts. I have never seen Crusher Joe and I've only seen clips of Dougram
@@TrailblazerBT Fang of the Sun Dougram is actually a really good mecha/political drama show. Currently, all 75 episodes are available on youtube fully subtitled.
th-cam.com/play/PLm_615Q2LgcBdzirnajuX1XVMfOhUVOgE.html
You do yourself a disservice by not learning about the true origins of some of the original Battletech designs.
@@sleeplessknight99 That's great, I will try watching it for real!
Wolverine losing the ball turret has been the biggest slap in the face when it comes to the redesigns
First you skip the Scorpion and Goliath and then you give the win to the absolute worst of the redesigns - the Wolverine?
Absolute madness
If you want to compare the "originals" you should check out the plastic kits originally sold with Battle tech. They were 1/200 Macross Valkyries and Destroids and 1/144 Fang of the Sun Dougram.
I haven't seen the new Unseen art, so thank you for showcasing it... it is pretty good IMO. I kind of wish they made the feet bigger like the OG unseen, as that and the legs seem to be some of the bigger differences to me.
new crusader looks like it has DD chest implants
I would instead compare it to Schwarzenegger ca 1981
When you ask the tech why the crusader is the only mech he calls she and he just points lol
This was what the fans were looking for. This and also what mechs each faction primarily uses. I am glad they finally got around to the tech readouts on the factions.
The original TRO 3050 thunderbolt in my opinion is the best looking Thunderbolt ever!
Knowing the entomology of the Unseen. I'm glad Battletech puts its own spin on it. Growing up, people who weren't familiar with Battletech called it "The one that ripped off Robotech". (Technically, Battletech shares more DNA with Dougram, but whateves.)
So I'm glad Battletech was able to find its own voice when reimaging the unseen.
So what you're saying is, Battletech should be called "The one that ripped off both Dougram and Macross."
@@sleeplessknight99 and Crusher Joe (the Locust, the Galleon light tank, early versions of the Corsair and Sai aero-space fighters.
Not so much rip off but licensed from Big West. Of note, when they went to distribute to Japan, they had to replace those licensed designs as their license only covered territories outside of Japan.
@@downix I saw those designs years ago. They re-used some for the Solaris VII boxset illustrations for some hero 'mechs. A few of them looked pretty cool.
@@downix They weren't licensed from Big West, that was the problem. FASA obtained the license from Revell which made models/toys outside Japan. Probem was Revell wasn't supposed to be able to do that.
Good content…keep em coming.
Gen X here, and started playing CBT in middle school 35+ years ago (dating myself to explain my perspective).
Regardless of your individual tastes, It’s worth newer fans’ time to search some of the old anime stuff that FASA used, before all the Harmony Gold legal drama. For historical appreciation if nothing else.
Crusher Joe (locust…and I still think OG locust is the best)
Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs (shadowhawk, griffin, wolverine, t-bolt, battlemaster, scorpion, etc)
Of course Macross/Robotech veritechs, (stinger/wasp/Phoenix hawk), destroids (Warhammer/rifleman/longbow/archer) and the BAMF Glaug (marauder)
I like the new Locust better because the cockpit orientation actually makes sense.
Our unit favorites were the Thunderbolt (we retrofitted ours like the Eridani version) and a salvaged Wolverine-K (it was an absolute menace to vehicles since the SRM was able to cause all sorts of critical damage).
Wolverine K is one of the best mechs period, especially if playing for BV
I'm not gonna lie, some of the unseen mechs remind me alot about transformers
Especially with the Stinger, wasp, & phoenix hawk
Phoenix Hawk actually was a Transformer: tfwiki.net/wiki/Jetfire_(G1)/toys
@@TrailblazerBT Actually, the Phoenix Hawkins is actually a super veritech fighter from the anime Robotech or Macross. And the Crusader is actually a veritech fighter in armor. The armor can be blown off after it fires off all its missiles. And the Warhammer is actually called an Excalibur. The Archer is called the Gladiator. The Rifleman is called a Raider X, and the Longbow is called the Spartan. I had to dig out my Robotech handbook and look that up it's a fun game, but you die really quick sometimes.
@@richardnicholson3827 Yes but the super veritech was also licensed to Hasbro to use as Jetfire in transformers
@TrailblazerBT Cool, I didn't know that. I learn something new every day. Well then, Trailblazer, you have a great and awesome day. Keep up the great videos.
I grew up with 3025, so have a soft spot for those designs (I remember buying the original Battletech an Citytech boxes with cardboard cutouts). But I’m pretty impressed with the new design language. All those FASA lead minis were passed on to others. It makes me smile thinking back on the good old days and how a new generation of players is keeping the game alive. Hell, it boggles the mind that I used to play BTech ASCII Muds/Mux over a dial up modem.
RE: The Shadow Hawk - The Mini had the same circular LRM pod that came with the Griffin, and the full-kit Dougram had it in the anime. It looked good with it. I personally liked to pretend that the Pod housed both the LRM-5 and the SRM-2 together, instead of that goofy panel showing the LRM in the right breast, and the smoke dischargers being the SRM-2. It especially worked for upgraded designs later.
But interestingly the plastic mini did not have the missile pack visible!
For me, only the Locust, Crusader and the Marauder were where I wasn't _quite_ sure, but ultimately I think the new classics are universally better. I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I believe it comes down to two things: line thickness in the original art, and disproportionate legs. Having so little difference in line thickness in the OG artwork makes it really hard for the various bits to stand out, and it all sorta blends together for me. As for the legs, they're just _way_ too chunky. The Archer in particular looks severely mismatched with its legs and hips; like they're twice the size of the torso and arms.
The old Archer mini looks better than the art I think
I’m a fairly new player but I am totally in love with the classic BT art style. The old designs have a sort of awkwardness to them, with lanky limbs and oversized guns, that’s just really charming to me. I appreciate that most of the Iron Wind Metals designs are more in line with the classic style. I think the new designs are perfectly serviceable, but most mechs feel overdesigned to me. With all of the added detail and blockiness, I find that many mechs sort of blend together and aren’t very distinguishable. They don’t have the charm that the classic designs have.
I needed this video. I have been away from Battletech for a number of years (3060TRO) so now Im having to relearn Mechs and identify new ones.
You weren't showing the original unseen Archer, but a second, reseen version. The original Archer had its cockpit on top, as it can be seen on the old CityTech box. Together with the Warhammer those were the most menacing mechs of the original mech set.
Yeah the image I used was from TRO 3050
I personally like the new designs more, since I like the blocky war machine look of them, but the old designs are charming to me because they're relics of their time. They are VERY 80s.
I agreed with you concerning the Rifleman model right up until I finished painting mine. The mini looks fantastic imo, they did a great job giving it easy to paint details that really pop
If the new Locust had the old cockpit, it would be perfect. On the new Stinger, I miss the gun pod looking laser. I do really miss the ball turret on the Wolverine and wish it had carried over as well. What got me into Battletech was finding a copy of Camospecs back in the early 90s and seeing the original unseen Wolverine and reading the Eridani Light Horse fluff. Between the two I was hooked. Overall I think they did a great job on the new mechs.
Agree about the Stinger's laser!
The new phawk, shadowhawk, and stinger show the fluff semi-rules based detachable lasers that don't seem prevalent in the new models.
I'll have to side for all the original designs. The redesigns are sleeker in some cases, but knowing where the originals were taken from is part of the attraction for me. Especially the Marauder. It was Khyron's machine. The backstabber! I can't see one and not remember that description for Khyron. I am still a big fan of Robotech and those borrowed/stolen designs bring back great memories.
I love that New Classics mechs retain some of that original DNA (like I can clearly see Kawamori design on Warhammer as it literally looks like an update on original Tomahawk where Unseen version just looks like a fanart attempt at it for some reason. And Tomahawk/Warhammer is nothing short of Iconic mech for me)
Marauder tho looks extra cool because it looks like "What if Humans designed Glaug and not Zentradi?" - it has this UNS blocky design seen in Tomahawk, Armored Valkyrie, Spartan and Defender but still retains original design that in Macross was even more round with that odd ringular main camera
Being a BT player from the early part of the 80’s and having collected (if making the unit size IS “standard” I have about two brigades of minis from all iterations of the game. I agree with the fact that CGL has done a great job bringing back the look of these awesome mechs. I also imho, agree that these designs are not flawless, but it seems to me the designers love the OG mechs and wanted to honor them while fitting them into the new design style the old metal minis can’t achieve.
Also I like how CGL integrated the project phoenix mechs into cannon and allow players to take it or leave it as they choose.
I never thought that I would be happier with the game 40 years into it, but CGL managed to keep it going
New wolverine looks fantastic....but he left home without his briefcase!
The Crusader is my favorite of the new designs. it looks like an absolute BEAST.
I appreciate you comparing the ACTUAL unseen instead of the way most people try to romanticize the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe higher end art and models, instead of what we actually had.
Can't wait til the latest Kickstarter fulfills, hopefully it will let you do this comparison, but between the actual Miniatures of the two.
I generally like most of the redesigns - and there are usually just few minor elements that do not quite like, but I struggle to find anything I outright hate.
The ball turret on the Wolverine, for example is something I miss in the new design. I always saw it as something similar to the hull autocannon of modern attack helicopters and found it to be a nice feature.
Also - the thing I find missing in the revised Locust (and Cicada redesign as well) is the characteristic combined leg/arm joint that was was very characteristic for these mechs - with hull basically "hanging" from leg mounts. Instead we have a more conventional "chicken" design.
But these are really small gripes if I'm being honest.
The redesign art team had a mandate to make it so every mech can torso twist, because not being able to do so is such a crippling flaw in the TT game.
The new designs are good. I find most of them better, despite growing up with the originals. I'm not sure if the Project Phoenix mechs are bad, but they don't come close to matching the Battletech asethetics. It's almost like they were going out of their way to not match any other mech.
There are some mechs that I never used because of the designs. The Wolverine and King Crab stand out in memory. Then I encountered them in Megamek and the BT video games. Now they're favorites.
I like the look of the 2750 KC!
The Crusader really should have two of those antennae on the sides of its head instead of one in the center, because when we saw the GBP-1S in Macross, it was attached to Hikaru Ichijo's VF-1J Valkyrie.
Great video & hope you do more along these lines. I'm 46 & just got into BT about 18 months ago. I played MW since 97, played ClickyMech in the early 2000s, but first came across BT in the late 80s & instantly fell in love with it seeing the mechs & the record sheets as there was so much to them, but only just had a chance to start playing.
I was playing last Sun, and an old Grognard in our group was running a Ral Partha Locust & with the nice but likely paint job the mech just looked so good surrounded by new plastics. Whike I may disagree with a couple of your choices (like the Archer) I do agree some of the old mechs look great & I completely understand the nostalgia some of you may have for the old designs. I may have issue with some of the recent things CGL has done, but I am very thankful for what they have done & continue to do when it comes to updating the art & minis. I've heard they have had arguments over the location of antenna on the new designs, & I really appreciate the attention to detail & keeping the new designs at least at the core true to the original, but just better & maybe even a bit more "realistic".
Love hearing people's Battletech stories. One of the top ranked MRC players was just telling me a similar story, that he played MW2 in the old days but only recently got into tabletop BT
I love most of the Unseen designs, but they are dated in a way that is unavoidable. I love the more militaristic designs of the newer look, but you're correct, at least none of them are those horrendous Project Phoenix redesigns.
Edit: The only good Project Phoenix design was the Rifleman, which actually looks cool as hell.
The marader project phenox would have done well the design was introduced as an entirely new mech.
I think the Project Phoenix Scorpion isn't terrible
Most Project Phoenix mechs were not good, but for me there is one great exception: The Thunderbolt.
And you know why? Because it's the only model that correctly places the LRM launcher on the right side. Jesus Christ, I cannot stand the fact that cgl did not match the new classic with the data sheet.
Project Phoenix Shadowhawk with the Cobra Commander face isn't too bad. It;s not a Shadowhawk, but it looks nice.
Ohhh funny how people diverge, that's one of my least favorite PP mechs even if you forget it's supposed to be a SHD
I dislike the modern archer's cockpit placement. It seems odd for a short armed firesupport mech to place the cockpit so low and jutting out so far.
The greatest improvement is the Thunderbolt, which used to be kinda wonky as unseen.
The one thing I really wish they would have adressed when designing the new classic mechs is the wrong placement of components. The Thunderbolt has its LRM 15 in the RT in the rules, and the Marauder has its autocannon in the RT (because it wouldn't fit in the CT). They could have easily changed that up on the model. I can't really say if that would have destroyed the aesthetics, but I don't think it would have.
I disagree with you on the Shadow Hawk and the Archer, but otherwise I think you are pretty spot on.
Original Japanese Anime designs were amazing. A pity that Dougram and Crusher Joe never achieved the awarenes that Macross did.
The biggest problem with the new redesigns is how they all look so similar in style. There's no "soul" in them. They don't look like they were manufactured by different companies in different star nations.
I shifted some of the manufacturers around. Earthwerks did all the Dougram designs except for the Quads. Those still stayed with Brigadier. The Destroids from Macross were all from Starcorps. The Veritechs/Vakyries (including the Crusader) were all originally General Mechanics. GM designed the Valkyrie then licensed it to Corean to free up room for bigger 'mechs (also I decided to give the Valkyrie a VF-1J head) Shocked that, that Veritech/Valkyrie never got any representation. I was torn about the Ost series. I had them stay with Ostmann, who would later sue GM over the Marauder. I still saw the Ostmanns as keeping that Regult/Zentraudi Battlepod look. You can still see the remnants of that look in the leg design. There were exceptions because those might have been smaller contractors who licensed the design.
To me that is fine. They look industrial.
As a new player I am totally split down the middle i love both.
The problem with the new 'mech designs, they all look like they have rolled right out of the same assembly plant.
I enjoy all of Trailblazer videos
In all fairness the mostly horrendous reseen designs from 2002 were mostly an afterthought by the then custodians of Battletech, that being Wizkidz to simply fill out blank pages in rules books. At the time they were far more interested in pushing Mechwarrior Dark Age with a whole new set of designs and were simply just throwing out quickly thought up redesigns to fill in for the images they were no longer allowed to use. With a strong focus on making scaled dropships and 3D terrain pieces, all in an attempt to compete with Warhammer 40K, which was extremely popular at the time.
Meanwhile, Wizkidz never even bothered with model reprints of the old mechs, instead releasing the IIC and 2.0 versions of the miniatures instead, which at the time already had good looking designs which were distant enough in appearance from the unseen originals to not infringe copyright. Not that they really had to worry about that considering the situation at the time, since Battletech was owned by a big scary toy company, so HG wouldn't of even dared to copyright troll them over the designs, so I don't understand why they even cared to try to begin with, I mean Mattel didn't care and kept using the design they got for the entire run of Transformers and to this day and HG never bothered them once, know why? Because they're a rich company.
Soon as Battletech was back in the hands of guys who couldn't afford to fight HG in court a decade after Wizkidz, guess what, HG went after it again. That is what copyright trolls do. Wizkidz were in a position where they could just use the unseen and HG couldn't afford to do anything about it, so I don't even know why they even tried to come up with redesigns, they should of just used the originals and laughed in $$$.
Idk why the new locust has a reinforced antennae on it. I feel like it should be a big spindly thing. Otherwise, the redesigned cockpit looks so much sleeker and more aggressive and I dig it.
The 'Big Gun' on the F4X 'Ironfoot' (Thunderbolt) is a heavy linear cannon (Railgun/Gauss Rifle).
All of the new models are a win for me. I've known about battletech for 20 years but the models always looked a bit silly for me. The new redesigns are what finally got me into the game.
I play mw5 with a mod that inputa some of the older models into the game.ill admit alot are pretty cool but i do enjoy the more bulky tank armor plat style its evolved into, has giving battletech its own look of western mech as apposed to slim sleek eastern mech.
The old mechs are just the best.. albeit Battletech did some upsies in atributing weapons to the the original japanese mechs, except for the veritech stuff.. for LAMs it just makes more sense to take an avoid shape and do less transformation then full on fighter form to mech in 3 stages
Without a doubt the new art and sculpts look much better. While I enjoy that the Unseen were from classic Japanese anime series, they definitely are from the 80s and look it. It's 2024 and BattleTech deserves a modern update and we definitely got it!
I got Battletech mixed up with Robotech. I thought the boxset with the unseen Warhammer on the box cover was the Tomahawk from Robotech. Been in BT since then. I do have to say the new art and the way Battletech mechs were bulky I like most that look like they couldn't be made by slimmer armor.
Great origin story!
If there's anything that I think the new designs could take away from the old, it's that a bit of "War of the Worlds tripod" vibe isn't a bad thing. Not every mech needs to be chunky as hell, these are highly mobile far-future machines.
Honestly, after years of being disappointed in the various attempts at 'reseens' (Jesus that project phoenix Marauder was trash), I was pleasantly surprised at how hard CGL nailed it.
I love the original designs, I'm a fan of Macross and Dougram, and I've been in the game since the 90s but the new ones all look good and fit in nicely with the modern aesthetics
11:43 That brief case is meant to be a spare ammunition cassette like in an old timey 40mm bofors.
I've been introduced to Battletech by the HBS video game so I am biased when it comes to mech appearance. But the way it is described in the lore is a mix of old and new. The stinger for example, in the original GDL trilogy carries it's laser like a hand held rifle. But the marauder has always been described as having the AC5 in it's side torso as opposed to center top mounted.
Also the old designs didn't look like they could endure the damage described in the novels by just being built out of future steel or whatever. They looked like they work thanks to some Clark tech super material.
I like the new look very much, for almost all mechs. The battlemaster is the only standout for me, it looked so much better with the bubble glass cockpit and pushed out chest. It looked like a master of battle. The new model looks like a brick. It looks like a derivative of the shootist.
Dont forget that the Unseen Mechs are mostly ALL plastic Kits and were designed as such with some exceptions(like Urban Mech)from Bandai and other japanese Kit Manufacturers that were designed for Robotech and MAcross before Battletech existed!So between the unseen and the NC are lying over 40 years!Most of the NEW Classics look to bulky!Greetings from a from the beginning BT player!
i like the true MAcross looks but for battletech i prefer the new CGL in table top minis
Seems like I fared well against your nostalgia. Some wins and losses I expected would go the other way around. Good and fair video all around.
I agree as well. I was with Anthony today, and steered him here, so he could see how his redesigns faired. CSO Archer
Honored to hear your thoughts on this! 🫡 And thanks for your great work, it's really helped revitalize the game, which great for everybody.
Also loved your character art for MW Destiny!
I just want to add that I like new Phoenix hawk more that any other iteration. it's just perfect IMO.
I like new Shadow hawk design more.
And I have to say that I really like new Marauder. And I must add that I like PGI Marauder even more.
I've been playing since it was called Battledroids (1984).
I actually agree with Trailblazer for the most part with a few exceptions.
1.I consider the Shadowhawks equal because the original medium laser
was way out of scale.
2.I consider the Wolverines equal. The new version is more accurate
to the stats but the old is more accurate to some source materials.
3.I consider the Riflemans equal. I'm used to the old ascetic as
much as anyone but the new is recognizable as a Rifleman AND
more accurate to the stats as well as some source material.
4.I consider the Archers as equal. I prefer the beefier build of
the newer one but maybe they went a little to beefy.
Especially with the arms.
Stinger, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk all have 1 thing in common
that could be a make or break comparison.
The new classics do NOT yet have an LAM version.
The IWM LAMs currently available are from TRO 3085.
They were abominations made years before the new classics.
Yes, would love to see new classic LAMs
I miss the double barrel PPC of the battlemaster, still a great redesign overall
Would def have been better with double barrels
I have played BattleTech since the early 90s, started with that glorious TRO 3025 as my very first BT book, a gift from a friend, even before I owned any rulebooks. And as someone who gets really picky about design choices, I got bored of many of these mechs super fast. The fact that so many of them were cobbled together from several different anime series and mixed human and alien designs, meant that there was no common sense, no common design language, all rolled up into weird japanese mecha designs (stupid unicorn horn antennas, LAMs and other nonsense). Glad the new designs are out. They look like "REAL mechs".
I love the old unseen mechs I'm a huge fan of em but then... I liked robotech too 😂
These mechs belong to Studio Nue. They never sued anyone.
Just a friendly reminder. Have whatever preferences you want, but don’t make somebody else feel like shit because they aren’t using what is your opinion of the “correct version” of a chassis.
If you do this, you are the problem. Flat out, no questions asked.
Do not risk driving people away from the game because you have to make some sort of snide comment about their PP Warhammer (or whichever chassis it might be). That is what they introduced to the universe with, and they probably feel the same way about it that some feel about the “unseen”.
Wise words. I enjoy debating these things but only for fun
I really like the newer sculpts and aesthetics, the older ones look very... unusual. Granted im younger so I dont have a lot of nostalgia for the ANCIENT sculpts and designs.
For me it's 11 - 0 for the new classics x)
The way the new designs are made are right on the spot for me so.... xD
The only unseen that i found cool are those stolen from Robotech. But that's because i'm a fan of macross design :)
Have a good day ^^
you should do an evolution of the paper/card stock to metal and plastics. some of these, like the locust, paper/card stock, I have 5 versions, and the metal/plastic, I have 6 versions. being able to see all of these in a line would be great.
The RESEEN mechs said INSTEAD of 25% what if we went 75% different. Its classic over correction.
Id love to see you do comparisons to literally all the other new artwork vs originals
3025 TRO vs new is certainly a good starting point
I still don't understand how the non Macross/RoboTech stuff became unseen .......... And you're wrong the Shadow Hawk is the best of the three 55 tonners , better than a Wolverine at range , the best at medium range and better than the Griffin up close .
Interesting... I think my view of the SHD is pretty close to the conventional wisdom
@@TrailblazerBT oh I'm not saying your not . I just question conventional wisdom on it . I've only recently come around on the Shadow Hawk's flexibility myself
cus the non-Macross stuff were from different anime like Dougram and Crusher Joe.
I want to hear your opinion about the original unseen IIC mechs and the new artwork
@@Arnuld15Governator Someday I will get around to that for sure
well they had to redesign all the models from Macross/Robotech due to copyright/ legal reasons
I much prefer the new riflemen, it's cockpit seems really practical unlike most cockpits in the franchise which are very ostructed by varying objects
Why are the original mechs considered "unseen"? I've read about and seen all these mechs in the books and figures.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
Legitimately, I find it incredibly heartening that a Battletech fan doesn't know about the unseen debacle. It's like I've been teleported to a utopian future where they have to look up what 'racism' is, and after reading the dictionary description think that it's some kind of archaic fashion dispute.
Does anyone else find it odd that he is talking about the "miniatures" and how they look on the table the whole time, but is displaying drawings for comparison, rather than the actual miniatures? Other than that oddity, I enjoyed it
It's a good point, but I don't have all the minis myself and I didn't want to use unpainted versions or painted ones that other non-CGL people had done, so I used the TRO images instead. There aren't really Camo Specs pictures of the Unseen minis anymore.
Wow, I think I disagreed with you on just about everything where you handed out a win but agreed with most of your ties.
Fun video subject. Thank for the content and sharing your opinion
What are your feelings about LAMs in the BTech cannon? If they are unseen AND forgotten then the New Classics missing the jet fighter center torso won’t be missed.
As a fan of Robotech, who transitioned to Battle Droids which became Tech, the Crusader is an armored Veritech. Its missile alpha strike in the animation was epic. Sadly the translation into the unseen version missed the mark for me
My favorites were the veritech looking mechs, as well. But you forgot the Valkyrie!
I prefer all of the original Unseen on all of them... But the new ones do look neat.
Will probably do some more unseen mechs eventually, including the Valk. I thought the original 14 was a good place to draw the line for one video though.
I do miss the unseen but hey, a)I still have all the old minis and b) Some of the new designs look a-ok
To each their own, but none of the old designs look good side by side with the new ones. Maybe the Stinger and the Griffin but the rest no dice.
As someone who saw RoboTech before they found wargaming I like both ........ And yeh project Phoenix art is mostly a miss
I wanted to do a youtube channel doing this. The only difference i wanted to do was to show unseen, reseen, mwo, and catalyst comparison.
Mostly I think I agree with you... But I have to disagree on the Rifleman and the Archer, the new ones don't look like they have weak spindly arms, they look like the walking tanks they are.
And the Rifleman from Macross had a pair of lasers on each side, by using different looking weapons it stresses that the Large laser and AC/5 are different weapons.
The Glaug wins 11/10