I didn't think we could get any worse that SawBlaze vs Razorback, but bleedin' hell, you did it. Don't give me that primary weapon bullshit because BRUTUS lost its disc at the end, and Lock-Jaw's claw worked. Brutus did NOTHING. Disgraceful, either change the scoring criteria or find new judges.
It prevented Brutus from driving over the way the wedge was early on in the fight. The wedge did exactly what it was supposed to, but passive weapons don't get the points.
As far as "Aggression" goes, Lockjaw clamped Brutus 2/3 times and pushed him into the screws while Brutus made a few minor scratches, burned out, and tapped Lockjaw against the screws as the buzzer went off. I don't get how Brutus could win that.
that's not the point the point is Brutus actually tried to do something and attack and was not scared and stayed on defense and lockjaw stayed on defense the whole time and didn't attack Brutus once
but we will see if Brutus is meant to be there and if his whole getting into the sweet 16 was just an accident if he is so bad we will be able to tell in the next episode or two but me personally I love Brutus it's just that if he does not have those two guns back on I know he will probably lose but I will still have faith in him with guns or not
It was a split decision and neither one of them really did anything. Brutus landed a couple hits with his spinner, and lockjaw only started to use his grabber in the last seconds. They both got one good push into a hazard. The smoke doesn't matter that much as long as the bot keeps moving. It really was a nothing fight. Lockjaw's defense was to good for Brutus to land a solid hit, but lockjaw was a coward and barely attacked.
There's a certain irony in that, considering Tombstone losing the Series 1 final to Bite Force is arguably the main reason for the rule changes that allowed Brutus to beat Lock-Jaw here.
This active weapon rule is pure bullshit! I realised Lockjaw would loose halfway throught the match as they were not using the main weapon. They lost due to the same reason Disco Inferno lost to Chomp. BS!
+Steamrick I actually talked to Greg Munson, and he's going to bring up a possible second change to the judge's scoring system to split the aggression points so that aggression itself is worth one point and active weapon use tacks on an additional point. It would prevent people from being punished for using anti-spinner strategies while still encouraging active weapon usage.
that's a step in the right direction. I think Lockjaw controlled the whole fight and still lost. It's by far not my favorite but it is well build and donald seems to be a nice dude
After season 2 Donald Hutson has to be like "wtf do I have to do to win a match?" vs. Yeti: Attacks with weapon, controls most of the fight, Lock-Jaw smokes a little, and loses vs. Brutus: Attacks with wedge, controls most of the fight, OPPONENT smokes a little, and still loses
Honestly, this has got to be one of the most appalling decisions I've ever seen on any robot combat show. Lockjaw was the better driven, constantly kept it's front end pointed at Brutus' spinner, should've won on damage because of Brutus burning out it's weapon motor. This fight was Lockjaw's. And I can imagine it would've been a better match for Tombstone as well.
What was wrong with the old points based system? The only issue I have with Battlebots is the complete disregard for control. Lock Jaw bossed that bout and made Brutus' disk fail through good tactics.
Don't worry folks, we'll get to see that smug SOB get shredded soon. I've been wanting this ever since Overhaul debuted and the bastard refused to so much as shake hands afterwards. KICK HIS ASS TOMBSTONE!
Please get rid of your aggression with the primary weapon rule. Not many people like it, it takes away from superior driving skill, and most importantly, this is going to stifle creativity. Like another user said in a previous video, "if we continue to move to a world of primary weapon damage, we're going to see Icewave Vs Tombstone Vs Which Doctor Vs Brutus Vs Tombstone knock off Vs Cobalt Vs Cobalt knock off, because there's no longer any competitive merit to a bot like MegaTento or Complete Control or LockJaw being able to control the other bot, or even someone like Bronco, who, while powerful, isn't going to do as much visual damage. Eventually, all anyone is going to want to build is spinners, and only having one type of bot just isn't fun." Skilled drivers should not be punished and I feel that was the case here with Lock-Jaw, as well as with Stinger. Please revert back to season 1's rules with aggression. Not all pushing matches are boring.
I feel you, but I think we have remember that Battlebots is the "made for television" version of the sport. I mean, come on, no serious builder is expending their weight allowance on drones, minibots or flamethrowers if all they want to do is build the most competitive bot. Those are features the producers are "incentivizing ". I agree, if we are really concerned with competitive merit, then while damage should be primary, the ability to control the motion of your opponent shouldn't be far behind, and certainly ahead of inconsequential strikes from a weapon. But the sport also benefits from the exposure that a nationally televised tournament brings, even if we have to concede that the criteria of Battlebots is different from other competitions, and much prefers bots that smash up their opponents to bots that push and shove. Don't let that spoil the fun!
I have to disagree. drivng skill would still be very important trying to manuver your bot to attack the other bot where your weapon can damage your opponent without getting damaged yourself. For a spinner in the front you move where there is no blade you go under the blade. If you just charge in and try to carve the person up it's bound to backfire. look at Chomps Beta and Blacksmith, this season. They have a powerful hammer that can really do damage but it flips itself over in the process. A skilful driver will be able to avoid the hammer while scoring hit's with his weapon. flippers are very spectacular bots that can disable an opponent. variations on spinners or flippers would be the best bet. Mega Tento was modified between qualifying and matches putting the spinner in the back so the judges can see it doing damage
For everyone that blames this on the judges - this isn't the judges' fault. It was the judging rules at the time that led to this decision, and the judges are doing their job by following the rules. A judges' decision isn't just the judges picking a winner from what the feel, they have to assign the points based off of the VERY SPECIFIC rules that were made to give certain designs an advantage. BattleBots is a TV show, so the entertainment comes first. The judges were following the rules they were given, and it's the rules that need changing. In fact, the rules _did_ change after this season.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! LOCK JAW SO WON THIS FIGHT!! Can't believe they got robbed again and are 0-2 this season because of the BS Judge's Call! Brutus did nothing with their weapon and was smoking at the end, and it would been awesome if it was Tombstone VS Lockjaw in the next round!
I loved the driving by Brutus, and it's such a pretty robot, but Lockjaw definitely outmaneuvered it. Good defensive strategy, and good capitalization on every mistake.
No offense, but these judges are seriously trash. Lockjaw clearly had control, and wtf does active weapon and aggression do against control. And the judges felt pity witty pity on Mega Tento against Stinger, even though Stinger dominated that match/
I really believe that Mega Tento won purely because it's built/driven by a female driver and one of the judges is female. Jessica Chobot probably convinced one of the judges to side with her. These decisions should be completely devoid of bias and I really think bias was a factor here. The better bot lost in that fight, as well as this one.
problemis that stinger is a flipper but megatento was too big to flip. mega Tento had a drum spinner at the rear of the body so when thatside came in contract with stinger it did enough damage for Stiner to lose a wheel. Stinger lost a wheel and Megatento had no damage. which bot caused more damage?
I'm really getting sick of the production team and the lack of effort in the hazards. Don't stop the screws. Bring back the original hazards and actually consistently use them.
Stinger: OMG that red shield is too big for me to do anything effective. -- Mega tento wins Brutus: OMG that iron thing makes it so hard for me to do anything effective. -- Brutus wins??? Can the judges at least be consistent with their BS decisions?
If only Donald manage to flip Brutus upside down and get a KO. Lockjaw vs Tombstone would've been more entertaining with two excellent drivers, Donald and Ray going up against each other. Tombstone vs Brutus, was just a brutal murder.
I have been REALLY disappointed with some of the judges' decisions this season, and this is arguably the worst (next to SawBlaze vs. Razorback). This "active weapon" thing really favors bots with destructive weapons over bots like Lockjaw, Stinger, Complete Control, etc. It ostensibly makes wedge or grappler bots like that almost obsolete, which is a damn shame because they add a different level of strategy and creativity to the competition, rather than simply "which glass cannon will hit harder and not shatter first." To put it another way, a successful boxer doesn't always win because they're the strongest or hit the hardest or excel at beating another person to a pulp. Instead, they win because they out-think, out-maneuver, and outwit the opponent, scoring more points with jabs and hit-and-run blows while limiting the opponent's opportunities and stifling their offense. I feel Lockjaw in this match fits that latter type of boxer nicely. Lockjaw can't go into this battle head-to-head, or they'll get annihilated. Instead, Donald Hutson went in with strategy -- have the plow push Brutus around, do some damage with hazards, and if Brutus's spinner breaks (which it did!), then go in with the jaws. And the plan worked. Lockjaw chased Brutus around for most of the match, got him clamped at the end, did more hazard damage, and practically shut down Brutus's ability to attack directly. Is it the prettiest fight? No, of course not. But damn if it didn't make Brutus look anemic and stymie virtually all of Brutus's offensive chances... It's a damn shame for Lockjaw to lose and have great builders like Mutant Robots knocked out like this, it feels really wrong considering how much they strategically controlled Brutus in this fight.
That's exactly the problem, in order for this show to stay active they need a lot of views(which is wrong by itself) and for that they need the retarded people who just want to see destruction and call any wedge match bad, just see the comments section for Biteforce vs Ringmaster. So instead of only having the active primary weapon rule they also added the anti wedge rule in season 2. If you are using a wedge to push a bot around and not using your primary weapon you lose aggression points. This(producers rigging the fights for destructive machines) was already a issue in Robot Wars Series 7 and the ultimate downfall of it, instead of only saying "watch this for action and destruction" show people how those matches can be interesting, it can easily turn in a war of attrition or a other bot completely slamming the other one into the screws or other hazards. Don also showed well how good of a driver he was, always catching Brutus when they were trying to attack and never giving them a chance.
I bet we all can agree that spinners are becoming meta. I count 8 spinner types in season 1 brackets I count 19 (21 with razorback and bombshell, both swiss-army bots using spinner attachments) in season 2. NINETEEN!! If I were a clamp/lifter for mains, like lockjaw, i'd attach a strong, sizable plate on the lifting clamp. Since brutus' vertical spinner has a decent clearance underneath, team lockjaw would've been able to defend their main a bit more with the wedge-like angle and would more likely be counted as using is primary, since it doubles as a lifter/clamper. Don't get me wrong, i'm disgusted by some of these results like this one as well, but one should try to configure the main wep to take the spinner hits instead of attaching a defensive cover. That way the results will more likely be in one's favor.
Sierlea indeed. no matter what bot you create, there's always a weakness of some sort, and using that main weapon could have been risky for lockjaw. But knowing what his launcher did to Yeti's drum, he maybe should've tried the jamming strategy again. 50/50 chance
Hydra uses a bar to block Huge: "Wyatchi is a team of criminals and scumbags. Disgraceful." Lockjaw uses a wedge to block Brutus: "What a brilliant strategy. Perfectly executed driving. He really did a good job of turning and facing his opponent. HOW DID HE NOT WIN?!"
Don't get the hate for this one. Brutus did a couple tiny scrapes and ran lockjaw into the saw a little bit, whereas lockjaw did literally nothing the entire fight. Call was good.
Damn. The comment section wasn't kidding. What I've learned is leaving the match up to the judges is a joke. Lock Jaw literally did the most damage. Brutus was literally smoking after the match. Lock Jaw was in control for the entire duration of the match...
r543Blitzsonic The thing is, I can somewhat understand why the rule is necessary, from a television rating standpoint. The typical audience wants to see weapons flying, even if those weapons aren't necessarily practical.
Andrew Powell Yes, I understand that point too especially since it's required for this show to live on, but it's still a bad thing. If we have two barely working robots(see Bucktooth Burl vs Chromefly) then it's a bad match, war of attrition or things like this however aren't, they show how powerful the robots fight against eachother and clever driving skill, and the producers should definitely encourage that as well not only destruction, else we will see only spinners in the future going up against weak machines or other spinners, and once both weapons are broken the match ends.
No, because it was still working for most of the match - what scores were the main weapon hits. LockJaw just pushed around using a static wedge for most of the match, which is not scoring many points. Had he used the LockJaw grabber more often he would have won. Because Brutus got in some hits, even though they were not very effective, it counted as points. This is to discourage push bots with no active weapons :)
+Rennie Ash this new active weapon rule is bullshit. lockjaw neutralized Brutus spinner, defensive points should be counted towards defense, strategic maneuvering and opposition control all count as defensive tactics, but not necessarily effective towards damaging the opponent, therefore encouraging people to create both defensive and offensive weapons for their robots, thus building more intricate and complex robotry in the near future.
This was a good match & really a tie should have been the response due to both bots had an excellent display of superior driving skills which were very evident as neither side really took any significant damage. On a side note, I'd rather have the commentary to see what they had to say during the match. Anyways, thanks for the vids!
For the people complaining lockjaw was robbed, I get the feeling from the smoke, but at the same time, I never felt like lockjaw was about to WIN. It always felt like he was just pushing off losing. Only once did they clamp anything. It wasn't an impressive fight from either one, but I would reward the one trying and actually being a threat to the one that couldn't be bothered to even try.
This is the battle that completely discredits BattleBots- Lock-Jaw _won._ This is not a matter of opinion, that judges' decision was 100% horseshit. Lock-Jaw controlled literally the ENTIRE battle, but because Brutus had a spinner weapon that was able to put a couple of tiny scratches on Lock-Jaw's wedge, it won by default. The new judging criteria had made the show a farce.
Exactly, don't know what you thought about the last episode which I found WAY too overhyped and it started having stuff that brought back the pain of watching Series 7 with Jayne's comments. I loved Season 1, beginning of 2 seemed good as well(the Razorback vs Sawblaze match looked closer in the edited clip, much like this where it looked like a close pushing battle in the clip) but after last episode I'm not that much of a fan of it or the part of the fanbase who sees this as right decision.
+r543Blitzsonic "stupid fnabase who thinks this is the right decision" show these people please because anyone who gives a shit about the show hates this rule
Oh, hey Blitz man, didn't expect to see you responding to my BattleBots comments too, although I should have expected you'd be watching. In actual fact, I'm _generally_ really liking the new series of BattleBots so far, a lot of seriously good fights and surprising upsets like Red Devil over Witch Doctor and Poison Arrow over Son of Whyachi. I'm also really glad to see beta and Warhead come good after all this time (ESPECIALLY beta, because John Reid has been waiting 15 years to use that robot, and he's doing better than he did with Terrorhurtz in the Robot Wars reboot). But THIS fight just pisses me off. It's the same thing Mentorn did with Series 7, changing the rules to handicap "boring" robots in favour of MOAR DAMAGES.
Lockjaw lost due to the change of rules. The way you win in season 2 from judges are the usage of the weapons that the bot has. And brutus used the weapon while lockjaw used it last minute. But these rules are quite rigged so 2020 you better be good.
Weird decission. Lockjaw had the better strategy by holding Brutus off with its showel till the drumrollspinner got exhausted. Lockjaw had no damage at all
xdog12 too bad the shield wasn't covering the clamping jaws. You can clearly see the clamp was facing in the rear most of the fight. It was "rear" first most of the fight Brutus is such a small bot it would have to go for the sides in order to do any damage. I think it had drive train issues. Bronco also fought rear first but it came around and started flipping it's opponent around winning the matcfh.
Was the right call. Lockjaw was well driven and had a good strategy. But it took too long to accomplish what they were trying to do (break Brutus' weapon then attack). So they lost.
Eh I know it was the smart game plan by Lockjaw, use a wedge that basically makes it impossible for Brutus to get a hit in and just always point that side of the bot at the enemy, but at the same time it's a very boring plan.
No matter the outcome, the driver who refuses to attack shouldn’t win. I think that’s why Adam winning is the right call here. Donald may have outmaneuvered him several times, but he made no effort to get on the offensive. He just kept doing his best to keep anything from happening at all. That makes for a boring fight, and a much less sporting one at that. Go Brutus.
Control and aggression counts for nothing anymore in BattleBots. As long as you have something spinning and sparking (even if it burns up) you will win.
I saw a fight were a better driver rendered the OH SO IMPORTANT "main weapons" totally useless. But he didn't use HIS main weapons to make the other guys useless to he loses even though he wont the fight in literally every other way, INCLUDING using main weapons because he got a few grabs in at the end and brutus didn't land any hits that weren't lockjaw basically attack the other guys weapon. Fucking stupid.
Wow. Did those judges watch the same battle? 😳 Lockjaw dominated the whole time. Brutus was smoking several times in the match, landed no significant hits with its primary weapon, and even lost it in the final minute. Lockjaw's weapon still worked and they controlled the whole battle. Worst. Decision. Ever.
Bullshit decision, even if the wedge isn't Lockjaw's actual weapon he still made Brutus his bitch for most of the fight. Ah well, i'll be content in the fact that the decent bot gets to go home in one piece while Brutus will probably be going home as scrap metal once he fights Tombstone.
for all of you saying that lockjaw had it, youre wrong. lockjaw didnt score any aggresion since he didnt use his weapon once, nor did he do any damage at all to brutus. control, yeah, but otherwise, brutus got some good ticks in with the weapon and they didnt stop trying to attack and never backed off, and you can tell they kept trying because brutus started smoking
And another thing I don't like is the idea that just because one bot hit another, that necessarily counts. If a bot is not actually getting damaged because they have great armor, then getting hit shouldn't necessarily count against them.
actually, that is exactly why Brutus should have lost. he only scratched Lockjaw's shield (if they count that as hits, then I call BS on that). LockJaw controlled him nicely, pushed him to corners, and everything. In my eyes, Lockjaw's overall performance was much better
Nope the Season 2 rules state that attacking with a wedge is seen as a defensive action and doesn't count towards aggression, plus it didn't use its weapon at all. Lockjaw only won the control category.
I agree that you should need an active weapon on your bot,but i don't think that using it should control your aggression score.the way the rules are now it will end up being 45 spinner bots,2 razor clones,and 1 goofy stupid hammer bot. Boring. At that point you might as well just give out different colored versions of tombstone to 48 people and make that the tournament.While thwack bots and wedges and plows are boring,so is having to watch a better driver lose because he didn't use his weaponry that wasn't necessary for the match in the first place.Same for Disk o Inferno v Chomp and Razorback v Sawblaze. Also other reasons why Lock Jaw should've won: 3:03 3:45 4:12
Tragically, that match kind of sucked. I was expecting a little more out of Lockjaw and Brutus. Ultimately though, I do think Brutus deserved to win. Brutus had most of the offense while Lockjaw just took it on that plate of metal and only got one decent shot in near the end. Plus they didn't even do much with their primary weapon.
wonder how much those judges got paid to vote for brutus, lockjaw controlled the entire fight. wasnt glamourish or anything but seriously. brutus got in like 1 or 2 tiny nibbles and was pushed around all fight long before getting slammed into the screws and having a motor failure. seriously judges??? ur getting paid, so do ur jobs
+Luke Dennnis I'm starting to see why that rule exists. I initially hated it, but the more of these shoving matches I watch, the more I'm starting to support it. I just want to see one match where a bot with traction and horsepower as its primary weapon rams a bot and makes it fly across the arena. Maybe motor technology just isn't there, yet.
I didn't think we could get any worse that SawBlaze vs Razorback, but bleedin' hell, you did it. Don't give me that primary weapon bullshit because BRUTUS lost its disc at the end, and Lock-Jaw's claw worked. Brutus did NOTHING. Disgraceful, either change the scoring criteria or find new judges.
What did lockjaws claw do? it couldn't even push Brutus.
It prevented Brutus from driving over the way the wedge was early on in the fight. The wedge did exactly what it was supposed to, but passive weapons don't get the points.
As far as "Aggression" goes, Lockjaw clamped Brutus 2/3 times and pushed him into the screws while Brutus made a few minor scratches, burned out, and tapped Lockjaw against the screws as the buzzer went off. I don't get how Brutus could win that.
Be quiet tale of the toaster saw blaze beaten razor back in a knock out and faced against ghost raptor
Lock jaw was saposed to win
Not Brutus
that was shit, lockjaw had it. he played it smart and defensively and at the end his bot had less mechanical issues
but he never attacked and brutas did so o well
+Teshon Jennings Brutus never landed any hits
that's not the point the point is Brutus actually tried to do something and attack and was not scared and stayed on defense and lockjaw stayed on defense the whole time and didn't attack Brutus once
I guess
but we will see if Brutus is meant to be there and if his whole getting into the sweet 16 was just an accident if he is so bad we will be able to tell in the next episode or two but me personally I love Brutus it's just that if he does not have those two guns back on I know he will probably lose but I will still have faith in him with guns or not
lockjaw kept pacifying brutus like a little disobedient kid, and it lost?
It was a split decision and neither one of them really did anything. Brutus landed a couple hits with his spinner, and lockjaw only started to use his grabber in the last seconds. They both got one good push into a hazard. The smoke doesn't matter that much as long as the bot keeps moving. It really was a nothing fight. Lockjaw's defense was to good for Brutus to land a solid hit, but lockjaw was a coward and barely attacked.
@@NateCaves there was no damage on Lockjaw Brutas lost his weapon
@Will Edwardson and damage by taking down the disk on Brutas
@@BouncingTribbles shutting down the weapon does count
It didn't do any damage at all till last moment of the match. Brutus was the aggressor.
Worst judges in any combat robot series by far.
Last chance rumble just took that spot
Yeah
@@jonathanf2392 debatable
The decision between annieruok and deadulus in some bugglebots rumble was even worse
Sawblaze vs Razorback
Don't worry Brutus won't live much longer.
we will see but i bet he will
+Teshon Jennings no
Old glory Yeah really. Brutus is now Tombstone fodder.
There's a certain irony in that, considering Tombstone losing the Series 1 final to Bite Force is arguably the main reason for the rule changes that allowed Brutus to beat Lock-Jaw here.
I'd really like to see Tombstone take on Minataur.
wtf how did lock jaw lose, he had him out driven, out controlled and brutus started to smoke
lockjaw didnt do jack just tried to push with the wedge the whole time no attempt at all with his main weapon he deserved to lose
Except Brutus never managed to get a hit with his weapon, and Lockjaw did use his weapon at the end. If Lockjaw did nothing, Brutus did even less.
Brutus actually attacked constantly and managed a few hits on the wedge while lockjaw just pushed and didnt do any damage
the pushing match caused brutus to smoke
+Sillyzombie666 that's boring af and the judges don't want that and prioritize aggression and main weapon damage over everything else
This active weapon rule is pure bullshit! I realised Lockjaw would loose halfway throught the match as they were not using the main weapon. They lost due to the same reason Disco Inferno lost to Chomp. BS!
Not BS: Lockjaw lost because their fighting style didn't make for good television. That simple.
as if Brutus looked any better with its spinner flailing aimlessly
not actually hitting anything.
the rounds are three minutes
+Steamrick
I actually talked to Greg Munson, and he's going to bring up a possible second change to the judge's scoring system to split the aggression points so that aggression itself is worth one point and active weapon use tacks on an additional point. It would prevent people from being punished for using anti-spinner strategies while still encouraging active weapon usage.
that's a step in the right direction. I think Lockjaw controlled the whole fight and still lost. It's by far not my favorite but it is well build and donald seems to be a nice dude
After season 2 Donald Hutson has to be like "wtf do I have to do to win a match?"
vs. Yeti: Attacks with weapon, controls most of the fight, Lock-Jaw smokes a little, and loses
vs. Brutus: Attacks with wedge, controls most of the fight, OPPONENT smokes a little, and still loses
Yeti dominated most of the fight and deserved the win.
But ya the decision was bs against brutus
Honestly, this has got to be one of the most appalling decisions I've ever seen on any robot combat show. Lockjaw was the better driven, constantly kept it's front end pointed at Brutus' spinner, should've won on damage because of Brutus burning out it's weapon motor. This fight was Lockjaw's. And I can imagine it would've been a better match for Tombstone as well.
What was wrong with the old points based system? The only issue I have with Battlebots is the complete disregard for control. Lock Jaw bossed that bout and made Brutus' disk fail through good tactics.
Don't worry folks, we'll get to see that smug SOB get shredded soon. I've been wanting this ever since Overhaul debuted and the bastard refused to so much as shake hands afterwards. KICK HIS ASS TOMBSTONE!
Please get rid of your aggression with the primary weapon rule. Not many people like it, it takes away from superior driving skill, and most importantly, this is going to stifle creativity. Like another user said in a previous video, "if we continue to move to a world of primary weapon damage, we're going to see Icewave Vs Tombstone Vs Which Doctor Vs Brutus Vs Tombstone knock off Vs Cobalt Vs Cobalt knock off, because there's no longer any competitive merit to a bot like MegaTento or Complete Control or LockJaw being able to control the other bot, or even someone like Bronco, who, while powerful, isn't going to do as much visual damage. Eventually, all anyone is going to want to build is spinners, and only having one type of bot just isn't fun." Skilled drivers should not be punished and I feel that was the case here with Lock-Jaw, as well as with Stinger. Please revert back to season 1's rules with aggression. Not all pushing matches are boring.
I feel you, but I think we have remember that Battlebots is the "made for television" version of the sport. I mean, come on, no serious builder is expending their weight allowance on drones, minibots or flamethrowers if all they want to do is build the most competitive bot. Those are features the producers are "incentivizing ". I agree, if we are really concerned with competitive merit, then while damage should be primary, the ability to control the motion of your opponent shouldn't be far behind, and certainly ahead of inconsequential strikes from a weapon. But the sport also benefits from the exposure that a nationally televised tournament brings, even if we have to concede that the criteria of Battlebots is different from other competitions, and much prefers bots that smash up their opponents to bots that push and shove. Don't let that spoil the fun!
They don't care about that. They care about destruction and ratings.
They can't get rid of the rule, the tournament is done long ago.
there is always next season
I have to disagree. drivng skill would still be very important trying to manuver your bot to attack the other bot where your weapon can damage your opponent without getting damaged yourself. For a spinner in the front you move where there is no blade you go under the blade. If you just charge in and try to carve the person up it's bound to backfire. look at Chomps Beta and Blacksmith, this season. They have a powerful hammer that can really do damage but it flips itself over in the process. A skilful driver will be able to avoid the hammer while scoring hit's with his weapon. flippers are very spectacular bots that can disable an opponent. variations on spinners or flippers would be the best bet. Mega Tento was modified between qualifying and matches putting the spinner in the back so the judges can see it doing damage
For everyone that blames this on the judges - this isn't the judges' fault. It was the judging rules at the time that led to this decision, and the judges are doing their job by following the rules. A judges' decision isn't just the judges picking a winner from what the feel, they have to assign the points based off of the VERY SPECIFIC rules that were made to give certain designs an advantage. BattleBots is a TV show, so the entertainment comes first. The judges were following the rules they were given, and it's the rules that need changing. In fact, the rules _did_ change after this season.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! LOCK JAW SO WON THIS FIGHT!! Can't believe they got robbed again and are 0-2 this season because of the BS Judge's Call! Brutus did nothing with their weapon and was smoking at the end, and it would been awesome if it was Tombstone VS Lockjaw in the next round!
6 years later and I feel Lockjaw was robbed again in the 2021 season. They performed so well…
I KNOW RIGHT?! LOCK JAW WAS ROBBED IN THIS FIGHT AND WAS ROBBED AGAIN!
I loved the driving by Brutus, and it's such a pretty robot, but Lockjaw definitely outmaneuvered it. Good defensive strategy, and good capitalization on every mistake.
Lockjaw should have won, played it smart throughout, used its main weapon at the end, brutus lost its weapon in a smokeout....this makes no sense
No offense, but these judges are seriously trash. Lockjaw clearly had control, and wtf does active weapon and aggression do against control. And the judges felt pity witty pity on Mega Tento against Stinger, even though Stinger dominated that match/
I really believe that Mega Tento won purely because it's built/driven by a female driver and one of the judges is female. Jessica Chobot probably convinced one of the judges to side with her. These decisions should be completely devoid of bias and I really think bias was a factor here. The better bot lost in that fight, as well as this one.
Maybe, but Matt, the driver of Stinger, said the judges were pitiful of its stupid design.
Considering that Yeti is Mega Tento is facing Yeti next, I highly doubt that Yeti will lose.
no that one was just another case of weapon damage over
control, I don’t agree with it but at least they are being consistent with
their bullshit.
problemis that stinger is a flipper but megatento was too big to flip. mega Tento had a drum spinner at the rear of the body so when thatside came in contract with stinger it did enough damage for Stiner to lose a wheel. Stinger lost a wheel and Megatento had no damage. which bot caused more damage?
Compare the like-dislike ratio on this to nightmare vs icewave and you will see the hate on the verdict
But will ABC see it?
It's the judges, not ABC, that need to take notice.
Are the viewers hating on the verdict, or that the match was boring as hell?
xdog12 A bit of both I think, Lockjaw controlled the fight and lost on technicalities...
Lockjaw also made the fight dull
4:53 Faruq did not agree with that decision lol
It's not that, he knew it would be controversial.
Are you kidding? Brutus won that?
THAT WAS A BS DECISION! THE JUDGES MADE THE WRONG CALL!
I'm really getting sick of the production team and the lack of effort in the hazards. Don't stop the screws. Bring back the original hazards and actually consistently use them.
Stinger: OMG that red shield is too big for me to do anything effective.
-- Mega tento wins
Brutus: OMG that iron thing makes it so hard for me to do anything effective.
-- Brutus wins???
Can the judges at least be consistent with their BS decisions?
If only Donald manage to flip Brutus upside down and get a KO. Lockjaw vs Tombstone would've been more entertaining with two excellent drivers, Donald and Ray going up against each other. Tombstone vs Brutus, was just a brutal murder.
Nice. A metallic version of Sumo!
I have been REALLY disappointed with some of the judges' decisions this season, and this is arguably the worst (next to SawBlaze vs. Razorback). This "active weapon" thing really favors bots with destructive weapons over bots like Lockjaw, Stinger, Complete Control, etc. It ostensibly makes wedge or grappler bots like that almost obsolete, which is a damn shame because they add a different level of strategy and creativity to the competition, rather than simply "which glass cannon will hit harder and not shatter first." To put it another way, a successful boxer doesn't always win because they're the strongest or hit the hardest or excel at beating another person to a pulp. Instead, they win because they out-think, out-maneuver, and outwit the opponent, scoring more points with jabs and hit-and-run blows while limiting the opponent's opportunities and stifling their offense.
I feel Lockjaw in this match fits that latter type of boxer nicely. Lockjaw can't go into this battle head-to-head, or they'll get annihilated. Instead, Donald Hutson went in with strategy -- have the plow push Brutus around, do some damage with hazards, and if Brutus's spinner breaks (which it did!), then go in with the jaws. And the plan worked. Lockjaw chased Brutus around for most of the match, got him clamped at the end, did more hazard damage, and practically shut down Brutus's ability to attack directly. Is it the prettiest fight? No, of course not. But damn if it didn't make Brutus look anemic and stymie virtually all of Brutus's offensive chances... It's a damn shame for Lockjaw to lose and have great builders like Mutant Robots knocked out like this, it feels really wrong considering how much they strategically controlled Brutus in this fight.
That's exactly the problem, in order for this show to stay active they need a lot of views(which is wrong by itself) and for that they need the retarded people who just want to see destruction and call any wedge match bad, just see the comments section for Biteforce vs Ringmaster.
So instead of only having the active primary weapon rule they also added the anti wedge rule in season 2.
If you are using a wedge to push a bot around and not using your primary weapon you lose aggression points.
This(producers rigging the fights for destructive machines) was already a issue in Robot Wars Series 7 and the ultimate downfall of it, instead of only saying "watch this for action and destruction" show people how those matches can be interesting, it can easily turn in a war of attrition or a other bot completely slamming the other one into the screws or other hazards. Don also showed well how good of a driver he was, always catching Brutus when they were trying to attack and never giving them a chance.
@@r543Blitzsonic you like pushing matches? 🤓
Justice for Lockjaw
I bet we all can agree that spinners are becoming meta.
I count 8 spinner types in season 1 brackets
I count 19 (21 with razorback and bombshell, both swiss-army bots using spinner attachments) in season 2. NINETEEN!!
If I were a clamp/lifter for mains, like lockjaw, i'd attach a strong, sizable plate on the lifting clamp. Since brutus' vertical spinner has a decent clearance underneath, team lockjaw would've been able to defend their main a bit more with the wedge-like angle and would more likely be counted as using is primary, since it doubles as a lifter/clamper.
Don't get me wrong, i'm disgusted by some of these results like this one as well, but one should try to configure the main wep to take the spinner hits instead of attaching a defensive cover. That way the results will more likely be in one's favor.
Agreed. Or even just switching to main weapon to attack sooner. If *all* you're doing is guarding, you lose out on aggression.
Sierlea
indeed. no matter what bot you create, there's always a weakness of some sort, and using that main weapon could have been risky for lockjaw. But knowing what his launcher did to Yeti's drum, he maybe should've tried the jamming strategy again. 50/50 chance
so... the screws stop once a robot is actually pushed into them? That's not pointless or anything...
What the? LockJaw was controling the battle all the time! He should win!
The start of the show feels like Ip Man 2 fight scene! 😂
Hydra uses a bar to block Huge: "Wyatchi is a team of criminals and scumbags. Disgraceful."
Lockjaw uses a wedge to block Brutus: "What a brilliant strategy. Perfectly executed driving. He really did a good job of turning and facing his opponent. HOW DID HE NOT WIN?!"
bruh
What happened to Brutus guns that were on top?
Don't get the hate for this one. Brutus did a couple tiny scrapes and ran lockjaw into the saw a little bit, whereas lockjaw did literally nothing the entire fight. Call was good.
One of many bullshit calls this season.
Damn. The comment section wasn't kidding. What I've learned is leaving the match up to the judges is a joke. Lock Jaw literally did the most damage. Brutus was literally smoking after the match. Lock Jaw was in control for the entire duration of the match...
It's the new stupid rules where you lose points if you push someone with a wedge and don't use your main weapon.
Damn. If both sides knew that rule, then Lock Jaw did in fact lose fair and square.
Andrew Powell
It doesn't mean that this rule isn't completely stupid.
r543Blitzsonic The thing is, I can somewhat understand why the rule is necessary, from a television rating standpoint. The typical audience wants to see weapons flying, even if those weapons aren't necessarily practical.
Andrew Powell
Yes, I understand that point too especially since it's required for this show to live on, but it's still a bad thing. If we have two barely working robots(see Bucktooth Burl vs Chromefly) then it's a bad match, war of attrition or things like this however aren't, they show how powerful the robots fight against eachother and clever driving skill, and the producers should definitely encourage that as well not only destruction, else we will see only spinners in the future going up against weak machines or other spinners, and once both weapons are broken the match ends.
If only Lock Jaw didn't have lock jaw... it wasn't able to do anything.
Yeah if it used the Jaw he would have won. That little bit at the end was not enough
what happened to brutus's gun shots, like in the other match
This decision was BS.
Btw, I thought if your bot keeps smoking you lose?
No, because it was still working for most of the match - what scores were the main weapon hits. LockJaw just pushed around using a static wedge for most of the match, which is not scoring many points. Had he used the LockJaw grabber more often he would have won. Because Brutus got in some hits, even though they were not very effective, it counted as points. This is to discourage push bots with no active weapons :)
Matthew Fisher Brutus looks a little smaller though
+Rennie Ash this new active weapon rule is bullshit. lockjaw neutralized Brutus spinner, defensive points should be counted towards defense, strategic maneuvering and opposition control all count as defensive tactics, but not necessarily effective towards damaging the opponent, therefore encouraging people to create both defensive and offensive weapons for their robots, thus building more intricate and complex robotry in the near future.
12 Gauge 2 Yo Dome They need to figure a way to have defence points without rewarding just a wedge bot :-)
Don't you consider it interesting that the owner of Brutus was the underdog in season 1 and lockjaw is the underdog in season 2?
This was a good match & really a tie should have been the response due to both bots had an excellent display of superior driving skills which were very evident as neither side really took any significant damage. On a side note, I'd rather have the commentary to see what they had to say during the match. Anyways, thanks for the vids!
why Brutalis wasnt equipped with its guns?
The guns are for show. They don't do damage.
In this fight, his drum was just for show too.
THE JUDGES TOTALLY GOT IT WRONG!
jajaja buenos videos me entretienen mucho 👋
WE NEED NEW JUDGES!
For the people complaining lockjaw was robbed, I get the feeling from the smoke, but at the same time, I never felt like lockjaw was about to WIN. It always felt like he was just pushing off losing. Only once did they clamp anything. It wasn't an impressive fight from either one, but I would reward the one trying and actually being a threat to the one that couldn't be bothered to even try.
What made Lockjaw champion of battle bots for 5 season?
Jeffrey Barkdull No, what made Donald Hutson champion of Battlebots for season 5. You were thinking of Diesector.
Brutus! What a great name!
Lock-Jaw: You Have Defeated Me Brutus, But Tombstone The King Of Kinetic Energy Will Avenge Me!
That should have been Lockjaw's win without a doubt.
This is the battle that completely discredits BattleBots- Lock-Jaw _won._ This is not a matter of opinion, that judges' decision was 100% horseshit. Lock-Jaw controlled literally the ENTIRE battle, but because Brutus had a spinner weapon that was able to put a couple of tiny scratches on Lock-Jaw's wedge, it won by default. The new judging criteria had made the show a farce.
Exactly, don't know what you thought about the last episode which I found WAY too overhyped and it started having stuff that brought back the pain of watching Series 7 with Jayne's comments.
I loved Season 1, beginning of 2 seemed good as well(the Razorback vs Sawblaze match looked closer in the edited clip, much like this where it looked like a close pushing battle in the clip) but after last episode I'm not that much of a fan of it or the part of the fanbase who sees this as right decision.
+r543Blitzsonic "stupid fnabase who thinks this is the right decision"
show these people please because anyone who gives a shit about the show hates this rule
Oh, hey Blitz man, didn't expect to see you responding to my BattleBots comments too, although I should have expected you'd be watching.
In actual fact, I'm _generally_ really liking the new series of BattleBots so far, a lot of seriously good fights and surprising upsets like Red Devil over Witch Doctor and Poison Arrow over Son of Whyachi. I'm also really glad to see beta and Warhead come good after all this time (ESPECIALLY beta, because John Reid has been waiting 15 years to use that robot, and he's doing better than he did with Terrorhurtz in the Robot Wars reboot). But THIS fight just pisses me off. It's the same thing Mentorn did with Series 7, changing the rules to handicap "boring" robots in favour of MOAR DAMAGES.
DoctorrDude
I'm only talking about that part of the fanbase who thinks those rules are alright. Edited my comment to make more sense.
+r543Blitzsonic I know what you meant but I haven't seen one person who thinks these new rules are better
Lockjaw lost due to the change of rules. The way you win in season 2 from judges are the usage of the weapons that the bot has. And brutus used the weapon while lockjaw used it last minute. But these rules are quite rigged so 2020 you better be good.
Weird decission. Lockjaw had the better strategy by holding Brutus off with its showel till the drumrollspinner got exhausted. Lockjaw had no damage at all
Read the season 2 rules
Lockjaw in my opinion is the winner. Most of the battle Lockjaw controlled and defend against the other player.
what about offense? how many times did lockjaw use the clamp during the match?
The wedge is the offense.
They didn't add the wedge to destroy Brutus, they added it to protect their claw. So it's not for offense, it's for defense.
xdog12
too bad the shield wasn't covering the clamping jaws. You can clearly see the clamp was facing in the rear most of the fight. It was "rear" first most of the fight Brutus is such a small bot it would have to go for the sides in order to do any damage. I think it had drive train issues. Bronco also fought rear first but it came around and started flipping it's opponent around winning the matcfh.
how much did the judges earn in this fight?
Lock Jaw won this fight by a light year! WTF?!
It wasn't that bad it is primarily based on primary weapon damage which lockjaw had almost none of
ngl the bots silently killing each other made me laugh
The same people who bitched about bite force winning are now upset that their complaints were listened to
Was the right call. Lockjaw was well driven and had a good strategy. But it took too long to accomplish what they were trying to do (break Brutus' weapon then attack). So they lost.
Brutus didn’t accomplish there goal thoihh did they?
Brutus was smoking the whole time
Both bots should have lost this round, bring out the 9th wildcard!
LOCK JAW GOT ROBBED IN THIS FIGHT!
I love Brutus to death but this was a raw decision lockjaw won all the way.
Eh I know it was the smart game plan by Lockjaw, use a wedge that basically makes it impossible for Brutus to get a hit in and just always point that side of the bot at the enemy, but at the same time it's a very boring plan.
Didn't Brutus have actual guns? What happened?
Brutus's spinner would work a lot better if it extended outside the robot a bit more!
I just don't get it... how ???
A ridiculous decision by the judges
lockjaw really took the cheap strategy there
THE DECISION WAS WRONG!
Never had Thomas seen such BS
Thomas had never seen such BS
Where's the guns? How come Brutus sometimes had two guns and sometimes just 1 gun. This time no guns?
No matter the outcome, the driver who refuses to attack shouldn’t win. I think that’s why Adam winning is the right call here. Donald may have outmaneuvered him several times, but he made no effort to get on the offensive. He just kept doing his best to keep anything from happening at all. That makes for a boring fight, and a much less sporting one at that.
Go Brutus.
Control and aggression counts for nothing anymore in BattleBots. As long as you have something spinning and sparking (even if it burns up) you will win.
Yep because as long as you try to do 0 damage and just keep the big spiny thing away from you're going to lose
I saw a fight were a better driver rendered the OH SO IMPORTANT "main weapons" totally useless. But he didn't use HIS main weapons to make the other guys useless to he loses even though he wont the fight in literally every other way, INCLUDING using main weapons because he got a few grabs in at the end and brutus didn't land any hits that weren't lockjaw basically attack the other guys weapon. Fucking stupid.
Where are the guns
horrible horrible decision. I've been in battle it's for 7 years and Lockjaw clearly had control the entire match getting under and pushing Brutus.
+Luke Dennis yes but he still has the control and the strategy points. there is no way Brutus's wild flailing should have counted for those.
Wow. Did those judges watch the same battle? 😳 Lockjaw dominated the whole time. Brutus was smoking several times in the match, landed no significant hits with its primary weapon, and even lost it in the final minute. Lockjaw's weapon still worked and they controlled the whole battle.
Worst. Decision. Ever.
Bullshit decision, even if the wedge isn't Lockjaw's actual weapon he still made Brutus his bitch for most of the fight. Ah well, i'll be content in the fact that the decent bot gets to go home in one piece while Brutus will probably be going home as scrap metal once he fights Tombstone.
LOCKJAW GOT ROBBED BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
for all of you saying that lockjaw had it, youre wrong. lockjaw didnt score any aggresion since he didnt use his weapon once, nor did he do any damage at all to brutus. control, yeah, but otherwise, brutus got some good ticks in with the weapon and they didnt stop trying to attack and never backed off, and you can tell they kept trying because brutus started smoking
And another thing I don't like is the idea that just because one bot hit another, that necessarily counts. If a bot is not actually getting damaged because they have great armor, then getting hit shouldn't necessarily count against them.
Galaxis And if it was the scoring from the original run of Battlebots, Lockjaw would’ve won on aggression and strategy.
Bull. Don Hudson controlled that fight and took less damage.
I don't think I've seen a single memorable match where a spinner didn't burn out or blow itself up.
I don't think it's all about damage I think it's also about overall performance. That is why Brutus won.
actually, that is exactly why Brutus should have lost.
he only scratched Lockjaw's shield (if they count that as hits, then I call BS on that). LockJaw controlled him nicely, pushed him to corners, and everything.
In my eyes, Lockjaw's overall performance was much better
Defnetly Brutus! Lockjaw was always in the defense...
LOCK JAW SHOULD HAVE WON!
They just didn't want Lock Jaw to fight Tombstone.
Nope the Season 2 rules state that attacking with a wedge is seen as a defensive action and doesn't count towards aggression, plus it didn't use its weapon at all. Lockjaw only won the control category.
for Brutus netural special, he whilds a gun
3:23
Brutus IS GOD!
I agree that you should need an active weapon on your bot,but i don't think that using it should control your aggression score.the way the rules are now it will end up being 45 spinner bots,2 razor clones,and 1 goofy stupid hammer bot. Boring. At that point you might as well just give out different colored versions of tombstone to 48 people and make that the tournament.While thwack bots and wedges and plows are boring,so is having to watch a better driver lose because he didn't use his weaponry that wasn't necessary for the match in the first place.Same for Disk o Inferno v Chomp and Razorback v Sawblaze.
Also other reasons why Lock Jaw should've won:
3:03
3:45
4:12
The crowd went wild
Whhhhat? Lock Jaw clearly had superior maneuvering, and had Brutus contained and nullified the entire match!
Tragically, that match kind of sucked. I was expecting a little more out of Lockjaw and Brutus. Ultimately though, I do think Brutus deserved to win. Brutus had most of the offense while Lockjaw just took it on that plate of metal and only got one decent shot in near the end. Plus they didn't even do much with their primary weapon.
Lockjaw stans pissed but I didn't see a main weapon hit 👁👁
wonder how much those judges got paid to vote for brutus, lockjaw controlled the entire fight. wasnt glamourish or anything but seriously. brutus got in like 1 or 2 tiny nibbles and was pushed around all fight long before getting slammed into the screws and having a motor failure. seriously judges??? ur getting paid, so do ur jobs
+Luke Dennnis
I'm starting to see why that rule exists.
I initially hated it, but the more of these shoving matches I watch, the more I'm starting to support it.
I just want to see one match where a bot with traction and horsepower as its primary weapon rams a bot and makes it fly across the arena.
Maybe motor technology just isn't there, yet.
Oh Donald, why didn't you just use your weapon. That's disco inferno, sawblaze, stinger, and lockjaw all out due to the new aggression rule😒
Or how about make a heavyweight version of Diesector and bring it back to Battlebots. Lockjaw sucks in my opinion really
Brutus Vs Tombstone or IceWave. Teach him who's boss! o-o