they will NOT be seeing me next month lmao, I am NOT buying the prerelease, or the reward track, or the minisets! first time in a WHILE. ooftah, blizzard, not gonna miss you
How the hell Painters Virtue is not yet a 2/2 or even a 1/2 weapon is beyond my understanding. It's so unbelievably broken AND can be target-drawn with Instrument tech... truly stupid
Id rather play whole day against handbuff paladin and get me ass clapped on turn 5 than 1 game agqinst that unskilled warrior creature that keeps me 40+ min in the game that i never had a chance to win
they didnt WANT to change anything, because its already as balanced as they want it to be. if they balance it any more thwy would have to tone back on the rigging.
@@DavidSmith-cr7mb They didn't want to change anything, because it was already balanced? That's why they changed things? Unless I'm missing the sarcasm, your statements fail basic logic checks.
It definitely will. I already lost games on turn 8 when Reno moved to 9. Now I will lose games on turn 9 as well. Blizzard wants every game over by turn 6 off if possible.
@@SaintSchield my statement is convoluted, and i had to take a second myself to unpack it, i was deep in the weeds. hearthstone curates a very specific meta in standard, a controllable one, so that they can use algorithms to influence the outcomes of games. in order to keep this "curated meta", they need tools available in the meta that are ubiquitous and just powerful enough that, in the right circumstances, can just instantly win you a game when you drop it on the table (you dont even have to play it sometimes, pull it from deck or rez it instead). the original comment that I responded to here stated that "the nerf to zilliax and reno wont change a thing", and I was sarcastically agreeing with him. my agreement was a jab at hearthstone itself, saying that they would need to stop rigging the game so much if they wanted to actually bring cards like reno and zilliax into a healthy balance, as well as several other cards and card effects like "till end of game" for example. I still cant believe the player base went through a whole season of deathknight just functionally invalidating highlander decks, lol. and then rotating steam cleaner BEFORE adjusting how highlander worked as an entire mechanic... its just so poorly handled, this game and its balancing... i could write a book about it, and maybe i will. if i ever make a significant portion of money, blizzard entertainment and now microsoft are on my list for a lawsuit regarding anti consumer practices. I actually believe at my core that hearthstone is just malware farming data from your phone, and the rigging in game is a skinner box to keep engagement up so they can keep access to your phone for data harvesting.
I used to hate aggro just as much as the rest of Hearthstone players but cards like Reno, Sif and Odyn made me hate modern control just as much. You at least know by turn 3 or 4 if you get to play the game or not against face aggro while those decks just have you praying for 15 minutes that your opponent didn't draw the one card that just ends the game unless you're playing the same uninteractive draw RNG trash or hyper aggro yourself. IMO they should've made Reno cheaper but only poof minions without boardlocking so Highlander decks don't delete slower board strategies including locations by default rather than just making it strictly worse against the already dominating decks.
Odyn has never been a control card. It's a combo card. Live until late game then drop 30 damage on the opponents face. If you rat the Odyn, they don't run enough value to actually contest a late game deck and will almost certainly lose. Sif is also a combo card rather than control. As for Reno, I understand how frustrating it is to get your board removed, but frankly if your aggro deck can't kill before turn 9, you've got bigger issues. I do think Reno at 8 and only affecting minions would be a fair spot. Or 9 mana but only opponent minions. The lockout seems to be the problem here.
In other news: I just got one turn killed by a shaman spamming zero cost nature spells on turn 5 😃 I had 30hp btw and minions on the board. I love that they can do this.
Reno is still going to be as oppressive in the current meta game. This might give some long-needed space for midrange decks, but shouldn’t affect highlander too much
Astral automaton's stats are given through an aura, which means its effect is permanent while the card with it is on the board. You set the AA's health to one, it works, but immediately after that they are set back to its original stats thanks to aura.
Great idea make it 11 mana (no coin) only playble with amplifier, so we can concede right there not waisting time. More preferable is adding intro animation at the start of the game like renathal baku do
as a control player I haven't touched standard since they removed and nerfed all the control decks. Paladin has been the exact same since the game came out and its top tier. They mine as well just remove standard and bring back hearthstone classic. Premium greed prices for an anti fun game
need? well that depends, if alot of your players are quitting because its a turbo lame strategy, is it a need yet? unfun strategies get nerfed for a reason, and reno is the most anti-fun card i have had to play with this past year.
The fact that Reno even exists makes both wild and standard unplayable. Standard might become playable when reno, brann and zarini rotates out. Wild.....needs it completely removed from the game. Honestly, anyone that uses Reno should put a bag over their face and take deep breaths.
I really can't understand how so many people have a completely warped perception of what Reno does. Reno is NOT an Anti-Aggro Card. It never was. Competent Aggro Decks are gonna be pushing for lethal - on average - by turn 6 or 7. In Wild they are pushing for lethal as early as turn 4 if they curve out perfectly. (Shadow Priest and Rogue mostly). Even at the original 8 Mana, Reno would have done nothing against these decks. If Aggro doesn't win by turn 7-8, they are not going to win at all - regardless of Reno. Yes, they are going to be those rare moments where playing Reno exactly on curve would prevent lethal and allow you to stabilize, but those are the exception - not the norm. At it's core, Reno Lone Ranger is a tool to deal with Mid to Late Game Value Engines and Win Conditions. Think Sargeras Portal, or the purified Dragon Nest, Deathrattle and Resurrection Strategies, stuff like that. And in that regard, Reno Lone Ranger is unbelievably poorly designed - because it makes almost every Board-Based Late Game Win Condition irrelevant. Control vs Control is going to turn into a game of chicken, because Reno is going to be mandatory. Whoever plays him first, loses - Because they can't remove the opponents Win Condition anymore. So unless you want every Late-Game Win Condition to be a degenerate "Deal 50 Damage from Hand" Combo that doesn't NEED a board to win - Reno Lone Ranger would have to receive mechanical changes, not changes to the Mana Cost.
Thank goodness someone else gets it. If an aggro deck can't kill by turn 9 in standard, it shouldn't be winning games anyway. Reno is for value decks. Combo decks want to run duplicates for consistency, so they don't get to run reno. Only true control decks get reno, but he is so strong that any non-reno control deck get outclassed. I don't think that necessarily a bad thing. Nobody complained about infinite pressure Sargeras when he came out bc no one was trying to play control. Like you say, it's now a game of chicken. Personally I enjoy the tug of war that control vs control matchups offer. Reno is the best boardclear ever, but you can still treat it like what it is: a boardclear. Ignis into windfury/summon 8 drop might not be the best option if you suspect they have reno. Like any board clear, you have to bait it out while conserving resources. Or just go balls to the wall and make the read they dont have a clear. W
Thank you for explaining this, Reno has warped all late game strategies where the only slow decks allowed without him are Odyn warrior (and wheel warlock maybe)
To be fair, at least for warlock and paladin, a lot of their success comes from their favorable matchup into Reno warrior, which is probably the most popular deck before the patch. So the new meta could let some decks that counter them, but have a hard time against Reno, actually thrive. That being said, Painter's Virtue is a boring as hell card that I am very much looking forward to get a refund for, Infernal is a card that should not exist and should be nerfed to the ground qnd possiby below, and mining rogue is an ugly amalgamation of horribly designed cards that should get killed regardless. I don't mind Insanity Warlock that much though, it should probably receive a slight nerf just to balance its power level, but it's by far the most fair deck out of the bunch and one of the healthier ones in standardin general, even with its disgusting Pop'gur turns and Zilliax.
I don't know. I doubt this does anything, tbh. For me, it'll be play just to complete quests and then log off until the new expansion drops. This meta is very very unfun. It's not Stormwind bad, but it feels bad compared to how it was during Voyage and Titans, and even Festival.
"We noticed aggressive Warlock and Paladin decks are running the game right now. As such, we've decided to nerf the two remaining control tools." Certified Blizzard moment.
Control decks are struggling because of their popularity. Reno and Zilliax and particular completely choke any midrange strategy that can't kill you from in hand, which forces every single competitive deck to be a combo or an aggro deck in order to not automatically lose 40% of its matches. These 2 card are the worst offenders of making the board irrelevant, and in order for Control to be viable and healthy, they need to die. Else, stop complaining about how "the board doesn't matter", RENO AND ZILLIAX ARE THE BIGGEST REASON WHY THE BOARD DOESN'T MATTER
they changed some cards that have actually nothing to do with the problems. good job, see ya never again, done with this game. havent spent since the quest changes, still wont spend until they fix it, and everything else with this game at this point. blizzard can suck my reno before they see another penny from me. MAKE HEARTHSTONE GREAT AGAIN
Play an aggro deck if you want to counter Reno. Control Warrior is the only deck that has the tools to consistently survive until Reno. That deck should recieve other nerfs.
finally, reno is such a boring playstyle in wild, sure it's singleton but it's so boring to play and boring to play against, same with pirate aggro, like seriously blizzard add more viable aggro strategies then just pirates
A thing they need to start considering with balance patches, is that when they hard nerf one deck archetype, that makes another deck (even more) broken, which they barely compensate. Even as a paladin player i admit, the current tier 1 paladin decks are a bit too strong
They need to stop all of this hand buff shit it really has to be some of the worst game play absolutely know way to interact he just plays stuff shit gets huge and there’s no way you can deal just lazy design
I keep really trying to enjoy hearthstone but the more i try the more i just cry. It has just turned into a game about taking everything to the absolute extreme as fast as possible
The steady decrease of slower games/control support is to increase appeal for the mass of commuter/toilet-seat players on mobile; whom I assume make up a majority of the remaining playerbase.
funny i always think of it as the inverse, aggro players are the toilet seater sitters, and control players are the terminally online glued-to-comp weirdos, the only types who would actually ENJOY playing control. (like zeddy!!!)
Because he warps and limits late game strategies/deck building for classes. Most slow decks are Reno based (outside of Excavate Rogue). He’s homogenizing late game strategies.
It's alright brother. We got that twisted abomination called combo druid which basically juice titans at turn 5 or 6 so... Handbuff pally and every other aggro deck is actually done for rn. You can try to cycle lethal with insanity or painlock or even rogue on turn 5 but if you dont... It's gonna be a weee merry go round to concede at turn 7 or struggle to turn 10 loosing xD
@@mariusschumann4071should not remove anything except minions, the whole point of the card is to be a mega control tool against aggro, what aggro decks are running locations, dormant minions or permanent board effects? None.
@@vitordarksiderReno isn't used against aggro, you die before playing him it's used against mid game decks to clear the board that only cards like twisting nether can kill as an AOE. Reno is the only way to interact with anything on board that isn't a minion with the exception of boomboss hitting locations. Late game decks will just set up for a turn and not go wide. Saying a no fun card shouldn't exist (not saying you are but from the over all comments) when it's used to counter no fun strategies is dumb. Can't deal with infinite 3/4 taunts? Reno that portal, can't deal with infinite cheap dragons Reno that nest. Can't deal with losing your big minions effect, bait out Reno by going wide and set up on the Reno turn, if aggro you already loat on turn 10 against a Reno deck
It absolutely does matter since it delays your board clear by one turn ; I've been playing druid recently and doomkin is great because it delays clears by one turn, including reno
@@Begerunot when reno is the only card in the game that guarantees a clean board wipe, its a mechanic no other card in the game has. Like sure if cards like twisting nether was the same it would be different, but its problematic that Reno has this monopoly. Also as a single cards its INSANELY overpowered
1) Goodest Boy(Arfus): starts near 30.. nerfed.. nerfed.. nerfed to 18(still doing well).. moved to 35??!!?!??! *WHY*? now EVERYONE is going to be playing it again and they will just have to nerf it again 2) C'Thun: started at 35-40?.. buffed.. buffed.. buffed to 100hp(still not top tier).. nerfed down to 35?!?!???!!? *WHY*? it's going to be just as bad at low hp as it was before and they will have to buff it way up again 3) Battlegrounds: they BUFFED Ghoul-a-Cabra?!?!?!?!? every lobby with that card atm is a race to T6 to get him before others do you either get him or you lose
WHY MAKE MY ONE VIABLE BOARD CLEAR COST TEN FUCKIN MANA? Ugh. It's still not gonna kill it for DRUID and PRIEST only for SHAMAN. It won't do shit to it for mage or rogue either.
Paladin is insanely broken this expansion. That 4 mana weapon that has lifesteal and gives minions in hand 1/1 is broken. and then building stats on top. Also rogue's weapon that has lifesteal and increases durability after playing cards from other classes is also broken.
A pretty nothing patch overall. Nothing to address the absolute domination by aggro decks (Flood Paladin, Handbuff Paladin, Secret Hunter, Token Hunter, Insanity Warlock, Treant Druid) which are all the best decks in the game and win way before even the original 8 mana Reno is playable (Honestly, most games I wish Reno cost 3 mana and I had 20 copies in my deck when facing these BS aggro nonsense) Nothing to address actual concerns with control strategies (Brann, Boomboss, Helya and Reno and to a lesser extent, Rheastrasza and Sargeras which would become uncounterable if Reno wasn't stupid af) Aggro decks will get to continue running the game with impunity. Control decks will still need to be Reno to compete, but will also continue to get shafted by Reno Warrior...
When will they fix wild...... Seed broken as hell free horror on turn 2 + giants, now with set health to 15 with a 4 mana 6/6 taunt.... Raza priest wild has no weaknesses, bunch of hand distruption and broken hp spam and can abuse Zephyrs, Nalak, Greyworm etc with Raise dead Both seed and Raza is so op with Raise dead, top 5 card of all time in my opinion. Should cost 2 or give random minions of same cost
I am sad. Now my Pogo-Hopper deck will be unplayable again. It was so good since projectionist and the mech-tutors. This might be the first time I would have actually preferred the "not less than (1)"-change.
The issue with Hearthstones patches that make no sense to me is that they REFUSE to adjust card text. They'll change mana cost or sometimes stats or if they're feeling really spicy add a number to a condition or remove a keyword. But they refuse to actually ADJUST THE CARDS MECHANICS. Cards like Brann and Reno are going to always be fucking busted overpowered in control matchups unless you change how they work. Any game that gets to turn ten Reno will massively swing the game in someone's favor no matter what. Adjusting the mana cost of these cards is just slowing them, meaning they're still going to be overpowered in longer balanced matches, but vs aggro they're going to be too slow to be played ever. They should change Reno to limit both players to one space, it's literally more thematic that way, it'll feel like an actual standoff where both players have to pick a minion, and eliminates the issue with Reno where it just gives the user a ton of free setup and getting rid of the opponents room for counterplay. Brann should be changed to where your next battlecry triggers twice after you excavate a treasure. That way these cards can be less insanely frusterating and overpowered without just changing their mana costs so that they can't ever be played in this current game state where matches never last that long. Unfortunately Blizzard is deathly allergic to changing card text for any reason, but at least they could lower the power level of these insanely hard to beat frusterating buff paladin and giant warlock.
Every month nerfs. Worst balance team I've seen playing HS since the beginning. Only thing they're adding are numbers. Not even addressing the actual issue of forced interaction when other tools aren't available or there's just a limited pool of cards that interact with these oppressive cards. Lazy, uninspired work from blizz.
With more unnecessary control nerfs, the start of the new expansion meta will be crazy aggro-heavy as usual. Just like last expansion, when the top decks were all aggro and needed nerfing one week later. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Blizzard wants to feed people with short attention spans who want to climb the ladder quickly. There will never be a control meta again, especially now that HS has to compete with short braindead games like Marvel Snap.
They nerfed Duel and punish A LOT my Highlander Paladin and did poorly on Flood Pala. Now they nerf Reno and punished Reno deck because... Are tier S... I guess. 😂
Making Reno 10 from 9 literally doesn’t change anything. They should have kept the 9 and remove the next turn restriction which is just way too oppressive in combination with the *poof* mechanic. It can even be 8 mana without that.
@@skrill9765 I don't want to be that guy, but you're both wrong. It's a 33.33% increase. Old C'thun: 6 minions die, you get +3/+3. New C'thun: 6 minions die, you get +4/+4.
Once again blizzard making the laziest nerfs ever, just bumping stuff up by 1 mana. No chance of reworking or balancing the cards actual problems, huh.
Guys you can make him 11 mana and he'll still be playable with greedy partner. You can make him 13 and people will still play him for when they're on the coin with two greedy partners because he's just that strong. Either change his effect or make him 15 mana so he won't be playable. These half measures are starting to get ridiculous.
If I was going to nerf any cards the first would be TNT because soem are bouncing and sending 12 bombs into your deck =auto loss oh yeah where is Steam Cleaner too bad they removed him too maybe he was going to cause problems selling new cards like Plague cards and TNT etc etc.Just amazes me at how incompetent this team is but idk maybe they just have such a huge base of dumb spenders that they can pull their shenanigans on.
You can’t make a mechanic like Reno’s fair just by making it more expensive. It’s always going to be a heavily one sided feels bad even if his actual decks aren’t tier 1. At this point, if they refuse to get rid of such an awful design, the LEAST they can do is offer control alternatives so that you’re not forced to play Reno or don’t play control whatsoever.
Agreed. The issue with Reno is that it invalidates so, so much late-game win conditions on his own that in the long run, it would be damaging to the Control Archetype as a whole. Purified Dragon Nest, Sargeras, Deathrattle Strategies, Locations, future permanent Locations - all pointless if you are going up against another Control Deck. It turns a Control vs Control Match into a game of chicken, and whoever plays Reno first loses because they can't deal with the opponents win con anymore. That's awful game design.
My god complete idiocy. Reno is the ONLY card in the game that can actually interact with any card and there are loads of powerful cards we cannot interact with and we SHOULD be able to.So this incompetent team is making the game even worse "is that possible?"geesus. I would make Reno a 5 cost card it canot be abused only cast once and you have to make a worse deck to use it so this makes zero sense other than what they mentioned they are worried about selling their new OP power creep cards. Having said that Reno cannot ruin anything it is a once cast card so wtf are their brain dead team members thinking? Oh yeah I remember a glass door interview a few years ago that mentioned nobody at th etop listens so it is 2-3 people on the team controlling and to blame for the garbage game we have.
Until they nerf boomboss nothing much will change. You can keep making good cards more expensive but it won't change much when most decks are value oriented and don't mind losing a bit of tempo to play expensive cards
This is exactly why I quit HS. It's beyond me how the community can tolerate such blatant money grabs. They allow Reno to be extremely broken for over a year so people have to spend the money to get it and nerf it to death right before they want you to spend more money.🤷♂
From every 10 games I believe about half are against buff paladin, the rest are a combination of giant warlock or Dr.Boom Warrior, maybe a Druid if someone is feeling creative. I barely see any reno decks, so for me the reno nerf is understandable but there are far worst problems
While I enjoy Highlander strategies, Reno was just way too toxic. He's a perfect representation of modern HS card design. It's fun if you play him, but it feels terrible to play against him.
I’d have to disagree. With the removal of a lot of board wipes in the rotation and recent patches. Aggro decks are unchecked and the meta is kill your opponent before turn 8. As seen in Druid, mage, hunter, nature shaman, rouge, paladin, priest, and warlock. The other classes are much slower and needed Reno to even be relevant. They need to more consistent board wipes and spells that can’t cost 0 if they do face.
@@brandon.chatman283 the wiping of locations (something mage Reno can't do) and the limit of one space is far too much for one card, in my opinion. I'd much rather the card at least give three spaces, to allow for more variety, and remove the two turn hit of wide board clear and cheap single target removal setting you back on board for _2 turns_ in most cases
@@brandon.chatman283 It's not really from a meta-perspective. I was strictly talking about a design perspective. I can't tell you the amount of times I got frustrated when I had to face Lone Ranger in Wild and played my favorite Cubelock deck. Cubelock isn't meta in Wild, but it's a good deck to illustrate my point. It SUCKS to play against such swingy and powerful cards that wipe everything you do from existence/counter your strategy.
@@deejayf69 Agreed. As a Wild-only player, Reno is the most miserable card in the format. And considering how many busted things there are in Wild, that's really saying something. Reno wiping the board is bad enough, but it also basically prevents you from playing the next turn too. If it was up to me, I would remove the restriction on the enemy's board. But I can settle for a nerf to 10 mana for now.
Noooooooo i can't stay against stupid arfus why they making dog 30 health when the passive and hero power is so broken its should be 12 health in my opinion and they still playing snake
Whhat the hell is happening with heaethstone. What a bloody mess. The cards are just getting more and more mana cost expensive. I don’t think these devs know what they are doing
If you nerf reno , the other legendaries should be refundable as well thay require on duplicates.. i made them all gold and they just keep getting worse n woree...
They didnt change anything at all, these changes they made are so inconsequential I wonder if they chose these cards on purpose to give players the illusion that effort is being made to fix their game.
Boardclears as strong as reno shouldn't be neutral cards either. Print seperate board clears for each class that has a control archetype like we used to. I hate the "lets make a super powerful neutral card that is super popular" design philosophy
I'd rather have it say "its mana cost cannot be reduced", because i do like having Projectionist on like 9-drops (i'm greedy and i CRANK IT UP TO 11 with that 2-drop mech)
That lie that cthun has no clears or removal is hilarious and just makes people not play it. He does. You’re bad if you’re losing consistently with him.
Bro you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a deck built with cards from Whispers of the Old Gods (2016) and an effect that does absolutely nothing until turn 8+ will be horrible compared to a deck built with cards from Showdown in the Badlands (2023) and an effect that works starting turn 1.
This patch basically says “hey we really like handbuff Paladin and insanity warlock hope you do too. See ya next month.”
they will NOT be seeing me next month lmao, I am NOT buying the prerelease, or the reward track, or the minisets! first time in a WHILE. ooftah, blizzard, not gonna miss you
@@DavidSmith-cr7mbcongrats to thus decision. Im still not away from blizzard lol.since 2014
How the hell Painters Virtue is not yet a 2/2 or even a 1/2 weapon is beyond my understanding. It's so unbelievably broken AND can be target-drawn with Instrument tech... truly stupid
Id rather play whole day against handbuff paladin and get me ass clapped on turn 5 than 1 game agqinst that unskilled warrior creature that keeps me 40+ min in the game that i never had a chance to win
@@MrProposa based
Neither the reeno nore the zilliax nerf will change a thing.
they didnt WANT to change anything, because its already as balanced as they want it to be. if they balance it any more thwy would have to tone back on the rigging.
It absolutely will
@@DavidSmith-cr7mb
They didn't want to change anything, because it was already balanced?
That's why they changed things?
Unless I'm missing the sarcasm, your statements fail basic logic checks.
It definitely will. I already lost games on turn 8 when Reno moved to 9. Now I will lose games on turn 9 as well. Blizzard wants every game over by turn 6 off if possible.
@@SaintSchield my statement is convoluted, and i had to take a second myself to unpack it, i was deep in the weeds.
hearthstone curates a very specific meta in standard, a controllable one, so that they can use algorithms to influence the outcomes of games.
in order to keep this "curated meta", they need tools available in the meta that are ubiquitous and just powerful enough that, in the right circumstances, can just instantly win you a game when you drop it on the table (you dont even have to play it sometimes, pull it from deck or rez it instead).
the original comment that I responded to here stated that "the nerf to zilliax and reno wont change a thing", and I was sarcastically agreeing with him. my agreement was a jab at hearthstone itself, saying that they would need to stop rigging the game so much if they wanted to actually bring cards like reno and zilliax into a healthy balance, as well as several other cards and card effects like "till end of game" for example.
I still cant believe the player base went through a whole season of deathknight just functionally invalidating highlander decks, lol. and then rotating steam cleaner BEFORE adjusting how highlander worked as an entire mechanic... its just so poorly handled, this game and its balancing... i could write a book about it, and maybe i will. if i ever make a significant portion of money, blizzard entertainment and now microsoft are on my list for a lawsuit regarding anti consumer practices.
I actually believe at my core that hearthstone is just malware farming data from your phone, and the rigging in game is a skinner box to keep engagement up so they can keep access to your phone for data harvesting.
I used to hate aggro just as much as the rest of Hearthstone players but cards like Reno, Sif and Odyn made me hate modern control just as much. You at least know by turn 3 or 4 if you get to play the game or not against face aggro while those decks just have you praying for 15 minutes that your opponent didn't draw the one card that just ends the game unless you're playing the same uninteractive draw RNG trash or hyper aggro yourself.
IMO they should've made Reno cheaper but only poof minions without boardlocking so Highlander decks don't delete slower board strategies including locations by default rather than just making it strictly worse against the already dominating decks.
Odyn has never been a control card. It's a combo card. Live until late game then drop 30 damage on the opponents face. If you rat the Odyn, they don't run enough value to actually contest a late game deck and will almost certainly lose. Sif is also a combo card rather than control.
As for Reno, I understand how frustrating it is to get your board removed, but frankly if your aggro deck can't kill before turn 9, you've got bigger issues. I do think Reno at 8 and only affecting minions would be a fair spot. Or 9 mana but only opponent minions. The lockout seems to be the problem here.
In other news: I just got one turn killed by a shaman spamming zero cost nature spells on turn 5 😃 I had 30hp btw and minions on the board. I love that they can do this.
Reno is still going to be as oppressive in the current meta game. This might give some long-needed space for midrange decks, but shouldn’t affect highlander too much
Can we talk about why when you play cards that set health of minions to 1 why this doesn’t work on Astral Automaton….
Astral automaton's stats are given through an aura, which means its effect is permanent while the card with it is on the board. You set the AA's health to one, it works, but immediately after that they are set back to its original stats thanks to aura.
Reading the card explains the card. If a card said this has x health then you set it to 1 obviously the card text will set it back to what it says.
Great idea make it 11 mana (no coin) only playble with amplifier, so we can concede right there not waisting time. More preferable is adding intro animation at the start of the game like renathal baku do
Nice even hunter would be a little more fun to play
as a control player I haven't touched standard since they removed and nerfed all the control decks. Paladin has been the exact same since the game came out and its top tier. They mine as well just remove standard and bring back hearthstone classic. Premium greed prices for an anti fun game
Seems like good Changes to me
oh nooooo call an ambulance, but not for reno
Look how they massacred my boy
Come on Reno didn't need a nerf
need? well that depends, if alot of your players are quitting because its a turbo lame strategy, is it a need yet? unfun strategies get nerfed for a reason, and reno is the most anti-fun card i have had to play with this past year.
He is far from dead lol
The fact that Reno even exists makes both wild and standard unplayable. Standard might become playable when reno, brann and zarini rotates out. Wild.....needs it completely removed from the game. Honestly, anyone that uses Reno should put a bag over their face and take deep breaths.
I really can't understand how so many people have a completely warped perception of what Reno does. Reno is NOT an Anti-Aggro Card. It never was. Competent Aggro Decks are gonna be pushing for lethal - on average - by turn 6 or 7. In Wild they are pushing for lethal as early as turn 4 if they curve out perfectly. (Shadow Priest and Rogue mostly).
Even at the original 8 Mana, Reno would have done nothing against these decks. If Aggro doesn't win by turn 7-8, they are not going to win at all - regardless of Reno. Yes, they are going to be those rare moments where playing Reno exactly on curve would prevent lethal and allow you to stabilize, but those are the exception - not the norm.
At it's core, Reno Lone Ranger is a tool to deal with Mid to Late Game Value Engines and Win Conditions. Think Sargeras Portal, or the purified Dragon Nest, Deathrattle and Resurrection Strategies, stuff like that. And in that regard, Reno Lone Ranger is unbelievably poorly designed - because it makes almost every Board-Based Late Game Win Condition irrelevant. Control vs Control is going to turn into a game of chicken, because Reno is going to be mandatory. Whoever plays him first, loses - Because they can't remove the opponents Win Condition anymore.
So unless you want every Late-Game Win Condition to be a degenerate "Deal 50 Damage from Hand" Combo that doesn't NEED a board to win - Reno Lone Ranger would have to receive mechanical changes, not changes to the Mana Cost.
Thank goodness someone else gets it. If an aggro deck can't kill by turn 9 in standard, it shouldn't be winning games anyway. Reno is for value decks. Combo decks want to run duplicates for consistency, so they don't get to run reno. Only true control decks get reno, but he is so strong that any non-reno control deck get outclassed. I don't think that necessarily a bad thing. Nobody complained about infinite pressure Sargeras when he came out bc no one was trying to play control. Like you say, it's now a game of chicken. Personally I enjoy the tug of war that control vs control matchups offer. Reno is the best boardclear ever, but you can still treat it like what it is: a boardclear. Ignis into windfury/summon 8 drop might not be the best option if you suspect they have reno. Like any board clear, you have to bait it out while conserving resources. Or just go balls to the wall and make the read they dont have a clear. W
Thank you for explaining this, Reno has warped all late game strategies where the only slow decks allowed without him are Odyn warrior (and wheel warlock maybe)
Warlock, Paladin and Rogue really struggling, so thank God they left them alone.
To be fair, at least for warlock and paladin, a lot of their success comes from their favorable matchup into Reno warrior, which is probably the most popular deck before the patch. So the new meta could let some decks that counter them, but have a hard time against Reno, actually thrive.
That being said, Painter's Virtue is a boring as hell card that I am very much looking forward to get a refund for, Infernal is a card that should not exist and should be nerfed to the ground qnd possiby below, and mining rogue is an ugly amalgamation of horribly designed cards that should get killed regardless. I don't mind Insanity Warlock that much though, it should probably receive a slight nerf just to balance its power level, but it's by far the most fair deck out of the bunch and one of the healthier ones in standardin general, even with its disgusting Pop'gur turns and Zilliax.
Me smells irony
isn't Pally the #1 on hsreplay's tier list?
I don't know. I doubt this does anything, tbh. For me, it'll be play just to complete quests and then log off until the new expansion drops. This meta is very very unfun. It's not Stormwind bad, but it feels bad compared to how it was during Voyage and Titans, and even Festival.
Nerf handbuff paladin.. always removing power to control decks..
"We noticed aggressive Warlock and Paladin decks are running the game right now. As such, we've decided to nerf the two remaining control tools." Certified Blizzard moment.
Control decks are struggling because of their popularity. Reno and Zilliax and particular completely choke any midrange strategy that can't kill you from in hand, which forces every single competitive deck to be a combo or an aggro deck in order to not automatically lose 40% of its matches. These 2 card are the worst offenders of making the board irrelevant, and in order for Control to be viable and healthy, they need to die. Else, stop complaining about how "the board doesn't matter", RENO AND ZILLIAX ARE THE BIGGEST REASON WHY THE BOARD DOESN'T MATTER
Reno is still alive and rocking
Sorry Zeddy I wish Reno were fundamentally changed. Let them empower control! But not like this. Release more good board clears for mid-game, instead.
Reno is ironocally also best in a control mirror match to remove the enemy wincon
I had a feeling that the reno nerf would just be a 1 mana adjustment rather than a mechanic rework.
mechanic rework? but isn't his powerful effect one of the reason why control deck are able do return in the meta..
I wish he'd be 8 Mana but it wouldn't limit the board spaces the following turn
@@olmollmk6681it's also the reason why control mirrors feel so awful, a single card is able to delete all your board value
@@olmollmk6681No? Reno is a bad card against aggro. The Brann nerf was the reason control returned.
@@kaitoshirogane5563Booo. The limiting space is one of the things I love the most about it. It makes aggro decks auto quit.
they changed some cards that have actually nothing to do with the problems. good job, see ya never again, done with this game. havent spent since the quest changes, still wont spend until they fix it, and everything else with this game at this point. blizzard can suck my reno before they see another penny from me. MAKE HEARTHSTONE GREAT AGAIN
FFFF Reno. 1 mana nerf seriously? remove this toxic garbage from game!
Play an aggro deck if you want to counter Reno. Control Warrior is the only deck that has the tools to consistently survive until Reno. That deck should recieve other nerfs.
I'm still confused. Isn't the only semi viable Reno deck Warrior?
More vulnerable against aggro but Doesn’t change a thing for any control match up. Reno doesn’t come down at 9 mana right away anyways
finally, reno is such a boring playstyle in wild, sure it's singleton but it's so boring to play and boring to play against, same with pirate aggro, like seriously blizzard add more viable aggro strategies then just pirates
A thing they need to start considering with balance patches, is that when they hard nerf one deck archetype, that makes another deck (even more) broken, which they barely compensate. Even as a paladin player i admit, the current tier 1 paladin decks are a bit too strong
They need to stop all of this hand buff shit it really has to be some of the worst game play absolutely know way to interact he just plays stuff shit gets huge and there’s no way you can deal just lazy design
Handbuff Pally has been so obnoxious, sad to see no nerfs but I guess the class has been nerfed too much recently.
I keep really trying to enjoy hearthstone but the more i try the more i just cry. It has just turned into a game about taking everything to the absolute extreme as fast as possible
Honestly, the whole paladin is the dev teams favourite class meme has to be seen as a fact by this point.
Reno is really bad design. They should make control better but Reno is not it.
The steady decrease of slower games/control support is to increase appeal for the mass of commuter/toilet-seat players on mobile; whom I assume make up a majority of the remaining playerbase.
funny i always think of it as the inverse, aggro players are the toilet seater sitters, and control players are the terminally online glued-to-comp weirdos, the only types who would actually ENJOY playing control. (like zeddy!!!)
wait you are saying that nvm, ignore my comment
@@DavidSmith-cr7mb That's exactly what I said. Try reading my comment again. We agree on this.
If that was the case they would have nerfed Reno warrior to death yet it's been the best deck for a really long time
Reno is more powerful against midrange or control than against aggro though
Why does it feel like whoever is in charge of balancing doesn't play their own game?
Zilliax still costs 1-mana in dollmaster dorian tempo druid decks. Elusive needed to be removed from the card.
Control cards could be much less sticky and annoying if aggro wasn't that prevalent...
Oh, look netfs to standard that will do absolutely nothing to the format
the mana value isn't the problem when it comes to mechanics like reno and brann.
Well control is dead now god this game hates any chance to play control haha
I still am very baffled as to WHY Reno needed a nerf. Most games end way before Reno ever is even considered playable.
Because he warps and limits late game strategies/deck building for classes. Most slow decks are Reno based (outside of Excavate Rogue). He’s homogenizing late game strategies.
No handbuff paladin nerfs 😂😂😂😂😂 What a joke
It's alright brother. We got that twisted abomination called combo druid which basically juice titans at turn 5 or 6 so... Handbuff pally and every other aggro deck is actually done for rn. You can try to cycle lethal with insanity or painlock or even rogue on turn 5 but if you dont... It's gonna be a weee merry go round to concede at turn 7 or struggle to turn 10 loosing xD
I feel like they should just put reno at 8 and have it clear both boards. Just make it a neutral twisted nether.
Should not counteract to the dragon nest in HL druid
@@mariusschumann4071should not remove anything except minions, the whole point of the card is to be a mega control tool against aggro, what aggro decks are running locations, dormant minions or permanent board effects? None.
It could also just poof minions and locations, thus avoiding 'portals' altogether
@@vitordarksiderReno isn't used against aggro, you die before playing him it's used against mid game decks to clear the board that only cards like twisting nether can kill as an AOE. Reno is the only way to interact with anything on board that isn't a minion with the exception of boomboss hitting locations. Late game decks will just set up for a turn and not go wide. Saying a no fun card shouldn't exist (not saying you are but from the over all comments) when it's used to counter no fun strategies is dumb. Can't deal with infinite 3/4 taunts? Reno that portal, can't deal with infinite cheap dragons Reno that nest. Can't deal with losing your big minions effect, bait out Reno by going wide and set up on the Reno turn, if aggro you already loat on turn 10 against a Reno deck
Against aggro? Lmao by turn 10 u have already won against aggro, its not a tool for aggro decks 😂😂😂@@vitordarksider
Fuck was not given says Reno.
Now i can make EVEN RENO PRIEST 😊
It doesn't matter how much mana reno costs because his purpose is giving you an uncontested setup turn, you can't do shit with only one board slot
As long as handbuff paladin exists, setup turns don’t matter anyways.
It absolutely does matter since it delays your board clear by one turn ; I've been playing druid recently and doomkin is great because it delays clears by one turn, including reno
the rock paper scissors kf the exposed metagame is revealed. quick! for shame, cover me back up im EXPOSED TO THEIR EYES
So what? It’s a good board clear. Cards are allowed to be strong.
@@Begerunot when reno is the only card in the game that guarantees a clean board wipe, its a mechanic no other card in the game has. Like sure if cards like twisting nether was the same it would be different, but its problematic that Reno has this monopoly. Also as a single cards its INSANELY overpowered
Why did they not touch paladin
1) Goodest Boy(Arfus): starts near 30.. nerfed.. nerfed.. nerfed to 18(still doing well).. moved to 35??!!?!??!
*WHY*? now EVERYONE is going to be playing it again and they will just have to nerf it again
2) C'Thun: started at 35-40?.. buffed.. buffed.. buffed to 100hp(still not top tier).. nerfed down to 35?!?!???!!?
*WHY*? it's going to be just as bad at low hp as it was before and they will have to buff it way up again
3) Battlegrounds: they BUFFED Ghoul-a-Cabra?!?!?!?!?
every lobby with that card atm is a race to T6 to get him before others do
you either get him or you lose
How do you stop getting Reno from coming to the party without stopping inviting him? You just make it more expensive for him to come
WHY MAKE MY ONE VIABLE BOARD CLEAR COST TEN FUCKIN MANA? Ugh. It's still not gonna kill it for DRUID and PRIEST only for SHAMAN.
It won't do shit to it for mage or rogue either.
Paladin is insanely broken this expansion. That 4 mana weapon that has lifesteal and gives minions in hand 1/1 is broken. and then building stats on top. Also rogue's weapon that has lifesteal and increases durability after playing cards from other classes is also broken.
A pretty nothing patch overall.
Nothing to address the absolute domination by aggro decks (Flood Paladin, Handbuff Paladin, Secret Hunter, Token Hunter, Insanity Warlock, Treant Druid) which are all the best decks in the game and win way before even the original 8 mana Reno is playable (Honestly, most games I wish Reno cost 3 mana and I had 20 copies in my deck when facing these BS aggro nonsense)
Nothing to address actual concerns with control strategies (Brann, Boomboss, Helya and Reno and to a lesser extent, Rheastrasza and Sargeras which would become uncounterable if Reno wasn't stupid af)
Aggro decks will get to continue running the game with impunity. Control decks will still need to be Reno to compete, but will also continue to get shafted by Reno Warrior...
nerf rogue and paladin
When will they fix wild...... Seed broken as hell free horror on turn 2 + giants, now with set health to 15 with a 4 mana 6/6 taunt....
Raza priest wild has no weaknesses, bunch of hand distruption and broken hp spam and can abuse Zephyrs, Nalak, Greyworm etc with Raise dead
Both seed and Raza is so op with Raise dead, top 5 card of all time in my opinion. Should cost 2 or give random minions of same cost
I am sad. Now my Pogo-Hopper deck will be unplayable again. It was so good since projectionist and the mech-tutors. This might be the first time I would have actually preferred the "not less than (1)"-change.
It's like asking a genie to cure your cancer and they just make it so you don't get cancer until a year later. Change the damn card text!
The issue with Hearthstones patches that make no sense to me is that they REFUSE to adjust card text. They'll change mana cost or sometimes stats or if they're feeling really spicy add a number to a condition or remove a keyword. But they refuse to actually ADJUST THE CARDS MECHANICS. Cards like Brann and Reno are going to always be fucking busted overpowered in control matchups unless you change how they work. Any game that gets to turn ten Reno will massively swing the game in someone's favor no matter what. Adjusting the mana cost of these cards is just slowing them, meaning they're still going to be overpowered in longer balanced matches, but vs aggro they're going to be too slow to be played ever.
They should change Reno to limit both players to one space, it's literally more thematic that way, it'll feel like an actual standoff where both players have to pick a minion, and eliminates the issue with Reno where it just gives the user a ton of free setup and getting rid of the opponents room for counterplay. Brann should be changed to where your next battlecry triggers twice after you excavate a treasure. That way these cards can be less insanely frusterating and overpowered without just changing their mana costs so that they can't ever be played in this current game state where matches never last that long. Unfortunately Blizzard is deathly allergic to changing card text for any reason, but at least they could lower the power level of these insanely hard to beat frusterating buff paladin and giant warlock.
Every month nerfs. Worst balance team I've seen playing HS since the beginning. Only thing they're adding are numbers. Not even addressing the actual issue of forced interaction when other tools aren't available or there's just a limited pool of cards that interact with these oppressive cards. Lazy, uninspired work from blizz.
With more unnecessary control nerfs, the start of the new expansion meta will be crazy aggro-heavy as usual. Just like last expansion, when the top decks were all aggro and needed nerfing one week later. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Blizzard wants to feed people with short attention spans who want to climb the ladder quickly. There will never be a control meta again, especially now that HS has to compete with short braindead games like Marvel Snap.
Meta is terrible atm and it's been stale for months, same ol'. I've just been playing a few games for my dailies/weeklies and logout.
Next time "balance patch" they will make Reno manacost 11, just bcs "why not, poor aggro and masohist warlocks struggle too much",146% prognose)))
They nerfed Duel and punish A LOT my Highlander Paladin and did poorly on Flood Pala. Now they nerf Reno and punished Reno deck because... Are tier S... I guess. 😂
Making Reno 10 from 9 literally doesn’t change anything. They should have kept the 9 and remove the next turn restriction which is just way too oppressive in combination with the *poof* mechanic. It can even be 8 mana without that.
Unless they make the C'thun deck broken that passive change of %25 increase is going to do nothing
I dont want to be that guy, but its not 25%, its 50%
@@skrill9765 I don't want to be that guy, but you're both wrong. It's a 33.33% increase.
Old C'thun: 6 minions die, you get +3/+3.
New C'thun: 6 minions die, you get +4/+4.
@@sandromalic299 yea youre right
Once again blizzard making the laziest nerfs ever, just bumping stuff up by 1 mana. No chance of reworking or balancing the cards actual problems, huh.
Nice bugfixes, sill can't open the chat on mobile (Android) and when I attempt to do that I can no longer interact with anything in the game.
First Post-Expansion Patch two weeks later sounds preatty scary considering the Windfury Neutral Pirate
Guys you can make him 11 mana and he'll still be playable with greedy partner. You can make him 13 and people will still play him for when they're on the coin with two greedy partners because he's just that strong. Either change his effect or make him 15 mana so he won't be playable. These half measures are starting to get ridiculous.
If I was going to nerf any cards the first would be TNT because soem are bouncing and sending 12 bombs into your deck =auto loss oh yeah where is Steam Cleaner too bad they removed him too maybe he was going to cause problems selling new cards like Plague cards and TNT etc etc.Just amazes me at how incompetent this team is but idk maybe they just have such a huge base of dumb spenders that they can pull their shenanigans on.
You can’t make a mechanic like Reno’s fair just by making it more expensive. It’s always going to be a heavily one sided feels bad even if his actual decks aren’t tier 1.
At this point, if they refuse to get rid of such an awful design, the LEAST they can do is offer control alternatives so that you’re not forced to play Reno or don’t play control whatsoever.
Agreed. The issue with Reno is that it invalidates so, so much late-game win conditions on his own that in the long run, it would be damaging to the Control Archetype as a whole. Purified Dragon Nest, Sargeras, Deathrattle Strategies, Locations, future permanent Locations - all pointless if you are going up against another Control Deck. It turns a Control vs Control Match into a game of chicken, and whoever plays Reno first loses because they can't deal with the opponents win con anymore. That's awful game design.
@@DungeonsAndDerps sadly the only way to have fun in this game rn is to either play wild or playing aggro in standard
My god complete idiocy.
Reno is the ONLY card in the game that can actually interact with any card and there are loads of powerful cards we cannot interact with and we SHOULD be able to.So this incompetent team is making the game even worse "is that possible?"geesus.
I would make Reno a 5 cost card it canot be abused only cast once and you have to make a worse deck to use it so this makes zero sense other than what they mentioned they are worried about selling their new OP power creep cards.
Having said that Reno cannot ruin anything it is a once cast card so wtf are their brain dead team members thinking?
Oh yeah I remember a glass door interview a few years ago that mentioned nobody at th etop listens so it is 2-3 people on the team controlling and to blame for the garbage game we have.
Until they nerf boomboss nothing much will change. You can keep making good cards more expensive but it won't change much when most decks are value oriented and don't mind losing a bit of tempo to play expensive cards
This is exactly why I quit HS. It's beyond me how the community can tolerate such blatant money grabs. They allow Reno to be extremely broken for over a year so people have to spend the money to get it and nerf it to death right before they want you to spend more money.🤷♂
From every 10 games I believe about half are against buff paladin, the rest are a combination of giant warlock or Dr.Boom Warrior, maybe a Druid if someone is feeling creative. I barely see any reno decks, so for me the reno nerf is understandable but there are far worst problems
While I enjoy Highlander strategies, Reno was just way too toxic.
He's a perfect representation of modern HS card design.
It's fun if you play him, but it feels terrible to play against him.
I’d have to disagree. With the removal of a lot of board wipes in the rotation and recent patches. Aggro decks are unchecked and the meta is kill your opponent before turn 8. As seen in Druid, mage, hunter, nature shaman, rouge, paladin, priest, and warlock. The other classes are much slower and needed Reno to even be relevant. They need to more consistent board wipes and spells that can’t cost 0 if they do face.
@@brandon.chatman283 the wiping of locations (something mage Reno can't do) and the limit of one space is far too much for one card, in my opinion. I'd much rather the card at least give three spaces, to allow for more variety, and remove the two turn hit of wide board clear and cheap single target removal setting you back on board for _2 turns_ in most cases
@@brandon.chatman283 It's not really from a meta-perspective. I was strictly talking about a design perspective.
I can't tell you the amount of times I got frustrated when I had to face Lone Ranger in Wild and played my favorite Cubelock deck. Cubelock isn't meta in Wild, but it's a good deck to illustrate my point.
It SUCKS to play against such swingy and powerful cards that wipe everything you do from existence/counter your strategy.
@@deejayf69 Agreed. As a Wild-only player, Reno is the most miserable card in the format. And considering how many busted things there are in Wild, that's really saying something. Reno wiping the board is bad enough, but it also basically prevents you from playing the next turn too. If it was up to me, I would remove the restriction on the enemy's board. But I can settle for a nerf to 10 mana for now.
Phone app chat has been bugged, since 5 months.... Noooo let's fix the animations on money portrait so people buy it and give as $$
Noooooooo i can't stay against stupid arfus why they making dog 30 health when the passive and hero power is so broken its should be 12 health in my opinion and they still playing snake
trash patch
Whhat the hell is happening with heaethstone. What a bloody mess.
The cards are just getting more and more mana cost expensive. I don’t think these devs know what they are doing
The only reason I'm playing hs this days is because of highlander decks, I guess they don't want players like me in their game.
If you nerf reno , the other legendaries should be refundable as well thay require on duplicates.. i made them all gold and they just keep getting worse n woree...
They didnt change anything at all, these changes they made are so inconsequential I wonder if they chose these cards on purpose to give players the illusion that effort is being made to fix their game.
My automaton deck is dead, they kill the 5 mana copy card, they kill the 2 mana guy, what is next? A nerf to the automaton?
Boardclears as strong as reno shouldn't be neutral cards either. Print seperate board clears for each class that has a control archetype like we used to. I hate the "lets make a super powerful neutral card that is super popular" design philosophy
They could have made Celestial Projectionist "Battlecry: Choose a friendly minion that cost (8) or less." so it can't copy Giants.
I'd rather have it say "its mana cost cannot be reduced", because i do like having Projectionist on like 9-drops (i'm greedy and i CRANK IT UP TO 11 with that 2-drop mech)
Blizzard refuses to change card text lately. It's just mana changes and nothing else. They're too spineless to actually fix issues with cards.
no thanks that would be so smart for hs balancing team
clown devs
Let's be honest the 'nerf' to Reno does nothing. There is nothing as less fun than building your board only to have everything removed by one card.
Should have nerfed Brann instead of Reno and virus module. 6 mana brann, next 3 battlecries are doubled.
more like is hearthstone finally dead. this shell of a game is just a corpse, made by zombies for zombies.
holy fk im sick of insanity warlock and im definitely disenchanting reno after this nerf
I doubt there will be any highlander specific cards in the next expansion anyway so might be time to dust
Yeah, let's delay the patch, sounds like a great idea XD Man, they gonna make me quit.
That lie that cthun has no clears or removal is hilarious and just makes people not play it. He does. You’re bad if you’re losing consistently with him.
Bro you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a deck built with cards from Whispers of the Old Gods (2016) and an effect that does absolutely nothing until turn 8+ will be horrible compared to a deck built with cards from Showdown in the Badlands (2023) and an effect that works starting turn 1.
Reno shouldn’t be able to remove portals. Sargaris and dragon Druid is unplayable
I play wild, the top 5 tier 1 decks, 4 are rogues. But reno its the problem 😂
Helya and Boomboss Thogrun are the most harmful to the game so long as there is no counter to remove cards in your deck that didn’t start there
i miss reno at 8 tbh i think 10 mana is too much reno decks aren’t really tier 1 anymore and reno at 8 still wouldn’t be a big issue imo
Reno mana change made Even Wheel Warlock stronger, you no longer need to hide Reno inside an ETC.
They can't make control decks meta because people want to be able to fit in a game while taking a shit.