I think the genius of Gaunter O'dimm is that in the whole witcher series you deal with monsters by studying them and being knowledgeable about them. In Gaunter's case, the fact that you know little to nothing about him makes him even more frightening
"The oldest emotion of Mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." H.P Lovecraft. I believe this quote is appropriate to further your point: In a knowledge-based game, assuming the designer did their job right, you're almost always gonna feel smart. Feel like you have an edge. But if the developer want to take that away, all they need to do is to take away that edge, by limiting your knowledge, or even better; by using red herrings; What could be more terrifying than seeing your confidence vanishing as the monster you've pelted down with silver, his only weakness (that you know of) and it just... shrugs it off ? And keep walking towards you ?
The scariest things you meet in the game are bizarre monsters, ghosts, curses, but you are, well, a witcher, you are THE witcher, so you are trained, disciplined and equiped to deal with them, it's your job to deal with them. But Gaunter O'Dimm, you just don't know what in the freaking world he is, you never dealt with anything like that, all you can do is do as he says and hope that he doesn't get bored of playing with you
what also makes Gunther special is that Witcher books were describing the world in a mysterious way. books felt like a world where folklore and mythology is real, but still mysterious and uncommon. games normalized everything paranormal and thus made the world feel just like worlds of every other action rpg where everything is overrun by monsters and it creates a big dissonance. but Gunther brought the feeling of folklore and mystery back
Thank you! I got some help from people who know more than me AND I do understand the Vibes side of music theory decently well. It is just when people start talking to me about stuff like I-IV-V-VI progressions, my brain smooths over.
@@razbuten I appreciate the effort you went into making this video! I think music circles sometimes end up appreciating music more for its theoretical value. Sure theory is important for analysis but it excludes people like yourself who have many insightful thoughts about music. Most of the time it's the non-theory vocabulary that actually describes it the best.
@@512TheWolf512Fr tho. Like, imagine if we lived in a world where professionals could pass down their knowledge to curious people and also still be able to afford to eat. And even worse, the people would learn quicker and have a great resource for answers that they can be reasonably confident are more informed than what they'd find on Wikipedia. Absolute madness, thank goodness we're not stuck in that universe.
16:00 The creepiest part of Gaunter O'Dimm being everywhere is that, last time I checked, CDPR says players havent found all the times he's been hidden in the background, meaning he's still out there watching
I would also argue he is, even more than that, the best representation of the folkloric devil, not the enemy of god, but of man. There are so many little flourishes and references that add so much,
There is also something terrifying about villains you can sort of win against, take your momentary satisfaction, but never truly beat - only in a given situation while feeling like it was already hard to do.
It is also a wonderful representation of trauma. Specifically relationship trauma. Of escaping from someone who sought to trap and control you and will go to extreme lengths to keep you. Like a possession.
devil may cry is a good example of what i mean, like i said Capcom knew what they were doing from the start, devil may cry was originally a resident evil project that branches off from the resident evil titles, goth and suspense is what they were aiming for back then 😁😁
13:18 "toying with people regardless if they are noble or beggar" is perfect description of the Gaunter who's pretty much Satan, such a well thought out character
@@HollowKutehe's neither. the idea of devil toying with humans comes from Christians re-interprering folklore stories about gods and other mystical creatures. the only inspiration Christianity gave is the church of the eternal flame
This was such a fun watch! You mentioned the contrast of themes in Wind Waker and BOTW when you hear subtle bits of Zelda or Link's themes begin to work their way into the song and I think the final boss of Twilight Princess does a great job of that as well. When you clash swords with Ganon, if you start to overpower him the music fades into one of the heroic songs from the game and then swells when you shake him off and then wail on him. Just *chefs kiss* This turned out great brother, well done!
My favorite thing is when a villains' theme song is played throughout the story as it builds up to a final confrontation. Then when you get there, they hit you with a grand orchestral remix of their theme. It really brings the story full circle and caps off the journey in a memorable way.
Agreed. I've put in so much work into trying to find songs that arent easily recognized but have multiple versions to use for D&D games to get this same effect.
My favorite example of this is Bowser's theme from super mario 3d world. For one, it's just an absolute BOP. But it works so well in the game since it's not really super scary or intimidating in any major way, it just jazzy and kinda smug-like, but that illustrates Bowser's power since he is able to be that smug. Then you get to world Bowser and the theme comes in at full force showing that you are now in HIS domain and his grandness is on full display.
I love when soundtracks subtly tell stories and you don't realise it until it's ... off. Like when suddenly the villain theme plays in a safe space, like Ganondorf's theme on the sea or Gaunter O'Dimm's in the overworld. Also, the blood moon's sound effect gives me the shivers every. damn. time. I don't know why, I even love the way it looks but something about the sound is making my core squirm. And if I may offer a slight criticism on an otherwise very enjoyable video: it may have been a good idea to allow a little more time for each of the soundtracks to play on its own without any talking over it. So we can actually hear and understand what you're talking about. Unless, of course, you can't for copyright reasons or something.
I was also wanting a brief moment of just the music. Background music doesn't usually stand out well against dialog on mobile speakers, so I had to turn the volume up quite a bit to hear the example.
I love how this is done in Hades. The titular Hades theme is played every time you die with a short version called "Death and I". When the battle against Hades begins with that familiar tune of "Death and I" but in a way that let's you know it's time for the full song. Hades the game also plays with layering it's music so that it shifts seamlessly between a subdued version of the song outside of combat and a metal version when you're fighting the boss. When you start fighting Hades the boss the music is subdued almost like you're not really fighting. When you finally deplete his health bar and knock him down does the game reveal that Hades wasn't really trying and now the real battle begins as the music amps up.
The parallels between Gywn's theme in DS1 and Soul of Cinder in DS3 gives me chills every time. For DS1 in particular, the contrast of this song to everything else as it builds to an anticlimax is superb. Then the finality in DS3 and the link to the cyclical nature of the games with the two songs is excellent. (There's also the bit of fun trivia that Gwyn's theme is comprised on only white notes, avoiding the dark).
Just as good as Ganon's theme is its absence in Wind Waker as he monologues on why he's done what he's done, how his people were cast aside by the people of Hyrule, accompanied by no music, only the sounds of water and wind.
Love that you included Gaunter O'Dimm and his theme in this. He's probably my favorite video game villain, and the fact that he's technically an original CD Projekt creation instead of a character from the books makes his existence even more impressive. (I say technically as he is of course loosely based on different iterations of the Devil in literature and folktales.)
New strat for Ocarina; fart around in the castle for so long that Ganondorf gets carpal tunnel from playing the theme on the organ then he can't throw those hand orbs at you anymore.
I think the genius of Sephiroth's theme (Those Chosen by the Planet) is that it makes Sephiroth seem like an unstoppable force of nature. In addition to the heartbeat bass drum, the long sustained notes by the choir give a sense of a coming storm, which Uematsu also utilized in the title screen music for FF6.
Nightmare King Grimm song and entrance are just unique to me, can't see this video and not just remind of them instantly. Not the theme as you mentioned in other examples, but such a great atmosphere built with something so simple
Twilight Princess's Hyrule Castle is my all-time favorite use of Ganon's Theme, taking the OoT concept of its growing prominence but beginning with the classic Hyrule Castle theme and transforming into Ganon's the further you go.
I absolutely agree with you. It kicking in with new intensity when you get to the room with so many ghosts of soldiers guiding your way is so impactful.
ok putting Gaunter O'dimm's theme so lightly at the end is a stroke of genius. I already tabbed out to do some other stuff and hearing that theme out of nowhere literally made my spine crawl.
14:56 Not only that, in his song we hear a secondary theme, which really plays in other places in the game, the base game. There's a track called "Outskirts of Novigrad", in which we never see or interact with him, but we can hear it. And when we notice that, that this could be his "lurking unseen" theme, that he could be anywhere, sitting atop a tree watching Geralt, pretty much like he does sometimes in cutscenes... And they don't even need to put his model anywhere, the song singlehandedly does the job.
I had always appreciated One Winged Angel as a great piece of boss music, but understanding it now as a continuation of the slow, evil music that has been haunting you the whole game really adds another layer of intensity to it.
Gosh, this makes me think of the flipside or mournful songs, especially Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. While all these themes fire me up, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon will literally make me go straight to crying or an adrenaline rush within the first 5 seconds of hearing it. It's so strong an impact that I actively avoid listening to the OST because those emotions go so high so fast and I've literally quit out of videos that play some of these songs as random b-roll without matching pace. Though, it does make sense because most songs in PMD do exactly what is done here, especially Dark Matter's villain themes, but same with the partner's theme in Super. And how Explorers can turn one of the most peaceful and tranquil songs I've ever heard into a gut wrenching reminder of mortality is something I'll be trying to understand for some time yet. Heck, Explorers does the same thing for Grovyle as well, who gets everything from villain themes to heroic and sad. That franchise is really something special.
Thank you for talking about Those Chosen by the planet. Everybody always talks about One Winged Angel in reference to Sephiroth but even that theme contains a leitmotif from this one.
One of my favorite ways Those Chosen by the Planet is used in game, is how during the flashback only the first part of the song (the bell and slow drum beat) plays while you’re in the mansion looking for Sephiroth. It really highlights the dread of realizing something bad is going to happen once you find him. Then after you find him he says the line “out of my way. I am going to see my mother” which cues the main part of the song to come in. Fully cementing his turn and leading into the destruction of Nibelhiem. It’s great storytelling through music
I saw this this afternoon at work, knew exactly what the video was about when I saw Gaunter O’Dimm, and got really damn excited! Just know Raz that you are amazing, and you do amazing work.
Man I wish I engaged with soundtracks like this. I so rarely even notice the music in a game or feel any impact from it, at least that I'm aware of. Things like this video help me grasp that at least a little more consciously each new time, so thank you!
I did not think I could get more scared of Gaunter, but here we are. Some of your best analysis yet - and that's saying something. (Also, very happy to see a soft sequel to the Color of Corruption. It was an early favorite!)
Villain themes are often some of the best. Hunhow's theme in Warframe (from the start of the Second Dream) is soooo powerful and intimidating, especially when combined with the dialogue that overlays it in the quest.
Gaunter O'Dimm's theme plays later in the Blood and Wine DLC as Geralt relays the story of a woman he encounters who was cursed by an unnamed travelling merchant. The theme shows up in a far distant land, totally unrelated to our encounters with him, and furthers the sense that O'dimm can be anywhere, anytime. Edit: just noticed the inclusion of the Blood and Wine cutscene I was talking about. Nice touch!
_A smile fair as spring, Towards him he draws you..._ Alex norton did so well voicing O'Dimm, and the tune that follows him, be it sung by children, playing softly in the menu, or whistled by O'Dimm himself, perverts what should be a child's nursery rhyme into something all the more sinister
There’s so many of these in FF XIV - almost every major antagonist has their own theme, which is often tied to the theme of the expansion they’re from, and the rearrangement is always top notch. Hades’ theme is one of my favorites!
Gaunter is such a great and terrifying villain that when I got the choice to fight him or not, I immediately assumed what the first option is a bad ending, because there's no chance of defeating him
The motif of a villain's theme can be a powerful thing. Indie game and Sonic-inspired game, Freedom Planet, has a villain named Lord Brevon, and his theme has many iterations. Him brooding, showcasing his power, and then the final boss themes are just his music in a more energetic tone. And it's by far one of my favorite boss themes of all time because of them.
And then in the sequel they foreshadowed his return to story relevance by making one level's theme a *very subtle* remix of Brevon's theme, with the characters realizing halfway through that level that they're dealing with his minions again. So that perceptive players might pick up on the theme only a few minutes before the reveal.
This reminds me of a video essay about Uncle Aaron/Prowler's theme from Into The Spider-verse and how its use transformed over the course of the movie.
after having watched so many videos on the music theory behind these kinds of scores and motifs it’s really cool to hear someone talking about it in a more personal sense and why it feels that way without just giving a music theory reason like “oh it’s the minor second” or something like that. yeah i know there’s a minor second interval there and i know in theory what it can evoke, but there’s just something special about someone talking about it who doesn’t know that reasoning in theory and coming to the same conclusion in a very different way
Not always villains, but characters turning out to be someone else is a classic twist and having the same or similar musical theme but with wildly different arrangements can be a great way of foreshadowing. Unless you're a music nerd then it spoils you I guess ^^
It takes a special kind of smarts and amount of work to showcase well known pieces and give them even more dimensions while barley listening to them. I had chills a few time. Your content is top quality and I should say it under every video.
omg you just creeped me out with that melody playing after the end credits! The screen was black so I figured the video was over and started scrolling through the comments and then I hear this eerie whistling and I start getting unnerved, chilling here home alone, at night
Gaunter O'Dimm frightened me so much with the whole, killed a man with a spoon just for drunkenly slowing geralt down for a couple of seconds that I didn't let anything slow me down from getting to the final confrontation for fear of being punished for it. His theme playing all the while. His theme shows up in one more place you didn't mention though. In the Blood and wine DLC there is a side quest where you visit an run down house haunted by a ghoul who collects spoons. And as you read her diary, she describes an encounter with Master Mirror, where she was so rude that he did a Beauty and the Beast on her. His theme started playing as I read this note, I was genuinely worried that he'd appear from around the corner to either punish me or sarcastically congratulate me for saving this woman from her fate.
The Witcher 3 and its expansions is a game that continues to stand out from the crowd. Gaunter is just one example of something done incredibly well in that game (although he might be the best example). From the game's music, characters, story and writing to its environments, symbolism, structure, choices and performances (voice acting) it is such an amazing feat and wonderful experience that we will probably never see again. Games like it are rare, RPGs like it even more so.
I've always sensed a certain evil tinting almost all the songs throughout the witcher 3... it all has an ancient, mystical vibe that i honestly havent felt in many games before or since... they just feel like they belong to a world that both always has been, and never was at the same time...
You should check out Suikoden II, in particular the Neclord theme. While not being the biggest of villains in the game, the music is fantastic, but his battle theme is incredibly memorable and just so on point for the character.
One of my favorite villain tracks is the final battle of Kid Icarus Uprising. The game is part rail shooter, part third person shooter. The rail segments, due to being scripted, have soundtrack that really TELLS the story of the level. The final battle is all rail shooter and holy shit does the soundtrack sell it. The entire battle, the theme is dark, using the motif of the villain Hades overwhelmingly, with only tiny segments that are heroic when the hero Pit gets the upper hand, but as the battle keeps going, Hades just won't go down. The music gets more desperate, darker, more ominous and creeping until, finally, at the very end, you get one final shot, and the music comes back triumphantly, and dramatic, playing Pit's motif, but in a minor key with Hades's instrumentation.
One to the best examples of themes transcending games is when you fight Soul of Cinder in DS3 and you hear Gywn's theme echo in the background which means you are fighting all those who linked the first the flame, which means you are not only fighting Gwyn, but the Chosen Undead (the character you played as in DS1 if you chose to link the flame)
19:12 Razbuten: I’ll never truly know if and when [these iconic villains] will come back Nintendo: You’ll know if, but not when *delays Tears of the Kingdom*
If we're discussing villain themes, I really have to throw Magus from Chrono Trigger out there. The more subdued version that plays throughout his castle, then the full thing that plays in the actual battle against him, & finally the base motif that is used as you explore the kingdom of Zeal to tie it all together. No matter how many times I play it, that theme always helps keep the sense of tension.
The dueling themes motif is something I've noted in boss battles as well. One of my fav examples is the violin in "Dismiss" that plays when you fight Terranort in BBS. To me, it INSTANTLY conveyed Aqua trying to banish the darkness from her friend. So effective, so good, still hits every time.
Him: It gets stuck in your head almost too easily Me, listening: really? it's not that catchy My brain, five minutes later: I beg to differ- *plays O'Dimm's theme on repeat for the next...*
A good example is the Thin Man's theme in Little Nightmares 2. The first part has a slow build up as you get your first look, then turns to a staticy mess when he chases you. The second part has a more menacing build up, matching the realization he's a serious threat. It's a low, menacing, eerie use of his motif. His theme is nothing like other enemy themes, 'cause he's like nothing else in the series. It lacks the usual malice and madness. It's calm, deliberate, and solemn like him.
Another fantastic game with great villain themes is undeniably Portal 2. The game has so many great themes and motifs on it, from GladOS's deep near methodical factory like sythns to Wheatley's fast and foreboding trumpets to Caves twinkling piano spiraling into madness in Music of the Spheres. All of these motifs and many, many others mix and interweave with each other throughout the soundtrack, perfectly juggled, always excellently carrying the story and strongholding apertures unrelenting tension.
I don't often throw around my credentials because it just feels pretentious to me, but I want to this time to add a little weight to my compliment. I've got a Masters degree in music. Some of my favorite videos of yours always involve you talking about music. I'm not sure if you are a musician or not, but you speak so intelligently about music. I love it. You are always right on the mark when speaking about music.
Just seeing this now and thank you so much! Nice to know I am not entirely off base! I played alto sax throughout school which helped give me a pretty solid baseline knowledge about music.
This made me think about the theme for the villain in Ace Attorney 1's fifth case (Rise from the Ashes). Because it's a mystery series, the murderers can't really have traditional villain themes, that would give everything away. So the theme for the villain in Rise from the Ashes doesn't sound evil, but it gains a menace it didn't have just from the knowledge of who the villain is. At least, that's how I can best explain it without spoiling the whole case.
EVERYTIME I THINK OF SOMETHING, IT HAPPENS WTFFF!!! I decided to rewatch some of your videos today and here we are - you posted a video today... what a miracle
Gaunter O'dimm is genuinely one of the best villains in most recent fantasy games by a WIDE margin. Terrifying. Powerful. Inescapable. You can only barely trick him.
I think my favorite “evil” theme of all time is actually from Destiny of all places. The First Disciple pulls in the darkness theme and some of the witness motif along with a 3/4 time signature and heavy bass/percussion sections to really put you on edge, but the dps section pulls in bright horns and strings along with the guardians theme to almost literally fight back the darkness in the music. The brighter tenor horns go back and forth with the darker bass horns beautifully and really sells the back and forth conflict
0:45 As someone who knows nothing of this game, I can confirm I immediately knew it was a villain theme 😂 Growing up, I always had to play games on mute or very low volume as my parents didn’t like it. As an adult, I realized this has led me to miss out on many iconic themes. Like Cynthia’s theme from Pokémon. I never heard it before Volo (where as an adult I played on full volume)
The best games have music that is specifically made to fit that game and its scenario's. A boss fight theme might sound imposing, but the best boss themes aren't always the most bombastic, but sometimes adding a bit of a kind feeling in the music if the boss is deep down a nice guy, helps so much
Another interesting technique is incorporating elements of the menu theme in the final boss music of the game, Elden Ring being a prominent example and Solasta being a great example as well but less well-known.
One of the antagonist i love the most is the black knight from fire emblem path of radiance and radiant dawn music is important in this game, every faction has a music. When you are near victory(one ennemy left or no ennemies) you usualy get a special fanfare that signals you are gonna win and its celebrating you. So when the black knight shows up, his theme kicks in. A dark military march that seems unstopable. and then the wind instruments kick in and you realise thats its a somber and vilain victory fanfare. The music is telling you he won by showing up so dont fight him. Upon his defeat, you dont get the glory to see him dead, a castle falls on him and he is left to the rubbles... so it hits oh so deeply when his theme kicks in the second game, the source of many problems, supposed dead, coming back to plow through the living.
My favorite usage of Ganon’s theme is as you’re ascending Hyrule Castle in Twilight Princess. The music starts as a faded out, defeated version of the Hyrule Castle theme, played in the flute or oboe. As you ascend the tower, Ganon’s theme rises to accompany and then entirely overpower the Hyrule Castle theme
No theme as ever hit me as hard as "End Times" from Outer Wilds i.e. the "ah shit I'm out of time again!" Theme (no spoilers). Especially the motifs eventual inclusion in the later score, Final Voyage and others. I feel like this fits in the same category some how!
1:28 That's how I felt about Mantis hymn in Metal Gear Solid, there's something distinctly different and uncomfortable about it than all the tracks we hear until then. To this day it still creeps me out.
I find it so interesting and funny that you point out the differences between OoT and WW's Ganon themes, and how WW feels like a much more ancient and calculated version of Ganondorf, in contrast to OoT where he was much more brash and arrogant. It's fascinating, because both Ganondorfs are one and the same. In OoT he is much younger, full of pride and confidence, practically riding a power trip until he gets felled and imprisoned by the gods. Then as hundreds of years pass, he eventually slips free of his banishment, and rises to power in WW once more. This time older, and with much, MUCH more time to carefully plot his takeover. While the exact, minute details are impossible to convey through music alone, the fact that the subtle differences in theme were able to paint SUCH an accurate picture of the King Of Thieves and his story, is incredible.
Gaunter O'Dimm is basically a hybrid between classical depictions of the Devil and Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep. Regardless of how true or not it is that he's actually the very embodiment of evil itself or if he's simply too beyond us to have any morality we can comprehend, the entity known as Master Mirror manages to embody everything that we fear, while himself appearing outwardly non-threatening, seeming to treat reality itself as nothing more than a quaint and amusing game.
You need an adjective after a so it seems like a compliment. Otherwise, it just means that they are a villian. The "a something of all time" format is actually an insult showing mediocrity.
@anthonynorman7545 Hahha, I appreciate the grammatical correction 😅 but i was joking a little with how i said it. People say stuff in that style like "Breaking bad is the show of all time" or "witcher 3 truly is a game" Really nonsensical internet speak. Sorry for confusion gents, but appreciate the thought! 💪😎👍‼️
The start of this video reminded me of how much I love Final Fantasy VII's OST and in particular how fucking good the final dungeon's music is. I can not get enough of like every song that plays there.
Thank you for the reminder to listen to more Game Soundtracks. Last time I did it was RDR1 and Binding of Isaac back in the day... Through bundles I own days of wonderful game scores. Thanks a lot, Raz
Amazing videos man, I just discovered your channel and it's always overwhelming to see someone speak with such passion of video games. I would just say, when talking about music, I would've loved to hear the themes after/before you talked about them, instead of behind your voice, to better appreciate them and get a full grasp of what you're talking about. Keep up the good work 💖
I've always been drawn more to villain's more than any other character type. Whether it be in games, movies, or tv shows, everything about them is way more interesting to me. From their character, their ideologies, their motivations, and yes, their music.
I think the genius of Gaunter O'dimm is that in the whole witcher series you deal with monsters by studying them and being knowledgeable about them. In Gaunter's case, the fact that you know little to nothing about him makes him even more frightening
"The oldest emotion of Mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." H.P Lovecraft.
I believe this quote is appropriate to further your point: In a knowledge-based game, assuming the designer did their job right, you're almost always gonna feel smart. Feel like you have an edge. But if the developer want to take that away, all they need to do is to take away that edge, by limiting your knowledge, or even better; by using red herrings; What could be more terrifying than seeing your confidence vanishing as the monster you've pelted down with silver, his only weakness (that you know of) and it just... shrugs it off ? And keep walking towards you ?
The scariest things you meet in the game are bizarre monsters, ghosts, curses, but you are, well, a witcher, you are THE witcher, so you are trained, disciplined and equiped to deal with them, it's your job to deal with them.
But Gaunter O'Dimm, you just don't know what in the freaking world he is, you never dealt with anything like that, all you can do is do as he says and hope that he doesn't get bored of playing with you
what also makes Gunther special is that Witcher books were describing the world in a mysterious way. books felt like a world where folklore and mythology is real, but still mysterious and uncommon. games normalized everything paranormal and thus made the world feel just like worlds of every other action rpg where everything is overrun by monsters and it creates a big dissonance. but Gunther brought the feeling of folklore and mystery back
"No Geralt, you don't. Just this once I shall spare you and not grant your wish."
For someone who "doesn't know music theory" you have a very good grasp of explaining music so precisely.
Thank you! I got some help from people who know more than me AND I do understand the Vibes side of music theory decently well. It is just when people start talking to me about stuff like I-IV-V-VI progressions, my brain smooths over.
@@razbuten I appreciate the effort you went into making this video!
I think music circles sometimes end up appreciating music more for its theoretical value. Sure theory is important for analysis but it excludes people like yourself who have many insightful thoughts about music. Most of the time it's the non-theory vocabulary that actually describes it the best.
Spending money to story music theory is just bullshit
@@512TheWolf512 That's easier to say when you don't know what you're missing.
@@512TheWolf512Fr tho. Like, imagine if we lived in a world where professionals could pass down their knowledge to curious people and also still be able to afford to eat. And even worse, the people would learn quicker and have a great resource for answers that they can be reasonably confident are more informed than what they'd find on Wikipedia. Absolute madness, thank goodness we're not stuck in that universe.
16:00 The creepiest part of Gaunter O'Dimm being everywhere is that, last time I checked, CDPR says players havent found all the times he's been hidden in the background, meaning he's still out there watching
That is insane
Gaunter O'Dimm is one of the best representations of the devil in any forms of media
I would also argue he is, even more than that, the best representation of the folkloric devil, not the enemy of god, but of man. There are so many little flourishes and references that add so much,
So, so true. Even his theme is super scary, truly an amazing and terrifying character
There is also something terrifying about villains you can sort of win against, take your momentary satisfaction, but never truly beat - only in a given situation while feeling like it was already hard to do.
It is also a wonderful representation of trauma. Specifically relationship trauma. Of escaping from someone who sought to trap and control you and will go to extreme lengths to keep you. Like a possession.
devil may cry is a good example of what i mean, like i said Capcom knew what they were doing from the start, devil may cry was originally a resident evil project that branches off from the resident evil titles, goth and suspense is what they were aiming for back then 😁😁
13:18 "toying with people regardless if they are noble or beggar" is perfect description of the Gaunter who's pretty much Satan, such a well thought out character
Isn't he GOD though ?
His initials spell out G.O.D
@@HollowKuteBut he's also known as master mirror, so I always saw him as a mirror of God aka Satan
@@Rebel42356 Interesting. Well, we'll never truly know, I guess.
@@HollowKutehe's neither. the idea of devil toying with humans comes from Christians re-interprering folklore stories about gods and other mystical creatures. the only inspiration Christianity gave is the church of the eternal flame
@@DorkN313 Read the book of Job, where the devil petitions God for permission to toy with his servant, the titular Job.
This was such a fun watch! You mentioned the contrast of themes in Wind Waker and BOTW when you hear subtle bits of Zelda or Link's themes begin to work their way into the song and I think the final boss of Twilight Princess does a great job of that as well. When you clash swords with Ganon, if you start to overpower him the music fades into one of the heroic songs from the game and then swells when you shake him off and then wail on him. Just *chefs kiss*
This turned out great brother, well done!
How’s that backlog doing?
@@harrybenson3400He already beat it, if I'm not mistaken
@@harrybenson3400 oh god I’m drowning in it help me
I love your videos! Just wanted to say that :)
My favorite thing is when a villains' theme song is played throughout the story as it builds up to a final confrontation. Then when you get there, they hit you with a grand orchestral remix of their theme. It really brings the story full circle and caps off the journey in a memorable way.
Agreed. I've put in so much work into trying to find songs that arent easily recognized but have multiple versions to use for D&D games to get this same effect.
My favorite example of this is Bowser's theme from super mario 3d world. For one, it's just an absolute BOP. But it works so well in the game since it's not really super scary or intimidating in any major way, it just jazzy and kinda smug-like, but that illustrates Bowser's power since he is able to be that smug. Then you get to world Bowser and the theme comes in at full force showing that you are now in HIS domain and his grandness is on full display.
I
@@donniejefferson9554hey! i was just curious if you have a resource for this? im interested in finding/curating some of these tracks too!
I love when soundtracks subtly tell stories and you don't realise it until it's ... off. Like when suddenly the villain theme plays in a safe space, like Ganondorf's theme on the sea or Gaunter O'Dimm's in the overworld.
Also, the blood moon's sound effect gives me the shivers every. damn. time. I don't know why, I even love the way it looks but something about the sound is making my core squirm.
And if I may offer a slight criticism on an otherwise very enjoyable video: it may have been a good idea to allow a little more time for each of the soundtracks to play on its own without any talking over it. So we can actually hear and understand what you're talking about. Unless, of course, you can't for copyright reasons or something.
I was also wanting a brief moment of just the music. Background music doesn't usually stand out well against dialog on mobile speakers, so I had to turn the volume up quite a bit to hear the example.
not a video game, but the Rains of Castamere playing in the Red Wedding before the massacre happens is the best example of that
I love how this is done in Hades. The titular Hades theme is played every time you die with a short version called "Death and I". When the battle against Hades begins with that familiar tune of "Death and I" but in a way that let's you know it's time for the full song. Hades the game also plays with layering it's music so that it shifts seamlessly between a subdued version of the song outside of combat and a metal version when you're fighting the boss. When you start fighting Hades the boss the music is subdued almost like you're not really fighting. When you finally deplete his health bar and knock him down does the game reveal that Hades wasn't really trying and now the real battle begins as the music amps up.
The parallels between Gywn's theme in DS1 and Soul of Cinder in DS3 gives me chills every time. For DS1 in particular, the contrast of this song to everything else as it builds to an anticlimax is superb. Then the finality in DS3 and the link to the cyclical nature of the games with the two songs is excellent. (There's also the bit of fun trivia that Gwyn's theme is comprised on only white notes, avoiding the dark).
Always a great day when Raz gifts us an essay
Agree
Just as good as Ganon's theme is its absence in Wind Waker as he monologues on why he's done what he's done, how his people were cast aside by the people of Hyrule, accompanied by no music, only the sounds of water and wind.
Love that you included Gaunter O'Dimm and his theme in this. He's probably my favorite video game villain, and the fact that he's technically an original CD Projekt creation instead of a character from the books makes his existence even more impressive. (I say technically as he is of course loosely based on different iterations of the Devil in literature and folktales.)
New strat for Ocarina; fart around in the castle for so long that Ganondorf gets carpal tunnel from playing the theme on the organ then he can't throw those hand orbs at you anymore.
I think the genius of Sephiroth's theme (Those Chosen by the Planet) is that it makes Sephiroth seem like an unstoppable force of nature. In addition to the heartbeat bass drum, the long sustained notes by the choir give a sense of a coming storm, which Uematsu also utilized in the title screen music for FF6.
Nightmare King Grimm song and entrance are just unique to me, can't see this video and not just remind of them instantly. Not the theme as you mentioned in other examples, but such a great atmosphere built with something so simple
razbuten: this theme has so many hidden messages
me: beeps and boops innit
Gaunter O'Dimm remains, to this day, one of the most endlessly fascinating antagonists I've ever seen.
Not just in video games but in all media.
Twilight Princess's Hyrule Castle is my all-time favorite use of Ganon's Theme, taking the OoT concept of its growing prominence but beginning with the classic Hyrule Castle theme and transforming into Ganon's the further you go.
I absolutely agree with you. It kicking in with new intensity when you get to the room with so many ghosts of soldiers guiding your way is so impactful.
O'Dimm's theme sounds like a waltz that never ends, strained and stressed, looking for resolution and never finding it.
“To gore and torment you, *TILL THE STARS ALL EXPIRE”*
Yay! A new video from Razbuten! Always a treat to see what you'll make next. ❤
8:06 Same incarnation from Ocarina actually! But he has changed in demeanor and i guess wisdom considerably over time, so the idea still applies
ok putting Gaunter O'dimm's theme so lightly at the end is a stroke of genius. I already tabbed out to do some other stuff and hearing that theme out of nowhere literally made my spine crawl.
10:47 The Legend of Ganon: A Link to the Motif
14:56 Not only that, in his song we hear a secondary theme, which really plays in other places in the game, the base game. There's a track called "Outskirts of Novigrad", in which we never see or interact with him, but we can hear it. And when we notice that, that this could be his "lurking unseen" theme, that he could be anywhere, sitting atop a tree watching Geralt, pretty much like he does sometimes in cutscenes... And they don't even need to put his model anywhere, the song singlehandedly does the job.
I had always appreciated One Winged Angel as a great piece of boss music, but understanding it now as a continuation of the slow, evil music that has been haunting you the whole game really adds another layer of intensity to it.
Gosh, this makes me think of the flipside or mournful songs, especially Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. While all these themes fire me up, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon will literally make me go straight to crying or an adrenaline rush within the first 5 seconds of hearing it. It's so strong an impact that I actively avoid listening to the OST because those emotions go so high so fast and I've literally quit out of videos that play some of these songs as random b-roll without matching pace. Though, it does make sense because most songs in PMD do exactly what is done here, especially Dark Matter's villain themes, but same with the partner's theme in Super. And how Explorers can turn one of the most peaceful and tranquil songs I've ever heard into a gut wrenching reminder of mortality is something I'll be trying to understand for some time yet. Heck, Explorers does the same thing for Grovyle as well, who gets everything from villain themes to heroic and sad. That franchise is really something special.
PMD soundtrack also has a really special place in my heart as well! Glad to see someone talking about it
So glad to see someone mentioning Pokemon Mystery Dungeon! Couldn't agree more 💙
Thank you for talking about Those Chosen by the planet. Everybody always talks about One Winged Angel in reference to Sephiroth but even that theme contains a leitmotif from this one.
Music is such a satisfying villain.
Jaws created the most terrifying theme music with just 2 notes.
One of my favorite ways Those Chosen by the Planet is used in game, is how during the flashback only the first part of the song (the bell and slow drum beat) plays while you’re in the mansion looking for Sephiroth. It really highlights the dread of realizing something bad is going to happen once you find him. Then after you find him he says the line “out of my way. I am going to see my mother” which cues the main part of the song to come in. Fully cementing his turn and leading into the destruction of Nibelhiem. It’s great storytelling through music
I saw this this afternoon at work, knew exactly what the video was about when I saw Gaunter O’Dimm, and got really damn excited!
Just know Raz that you are amazing, and you do amazing work.
Man I wish I engaged with soundtracks like this. I so rarely even notice the music in a game or feel any impact from it, at least that I'm aware of. Things like this video help me grasp that at least a little more consciously each new time, so thank you!
I did not think I could get more scared of Gaunter, but here we are. Some of your best analysis yet - and that's saying something.
(Also, very happy to see a soft sequel to the Color of Corruption. It was an early favorite!)
Villain themes are often some of the best. Hunhow's theme in Warframe (from the start of the Second Dream) is soooo powerful and intimidating, especially when combined with the dialogue that overlays it in the quest.
Gaunter O'Dimm's theme plays later in the Blood and Wine DLC as Geralt relays the story of a woman he encounters who was cursed by an unnamed travelling merchant. The theme shows up in a far distant land, totally unrelated to our encounters with him, and furthers the sense that O'dimm can be anywhere, anytime.
Edit: just noticed the inclusion of the Blood and Wine cutscene I was talking about. Nice touch!
_A smile fair as spring,
Towards him he draws you..._
Alex norton did so well voicing O'Dimm, and the tune that follows him, be it sung by children, playing softly in the menu, or whistled by O'Dimm himself, perverts what should be a child's nursery rhyme into something all the more sinister
The best villains are the ones that don't immediately seem evil without reason
Like Dutch
@@BookerDeWitt1 one of the best
There’s so many of these in FF XIV - almost every major antagonist has their own theme, which is often tied to the theme of the expansion they’re from, and the rearrangement is always top notch. Hades’ theme is one of my favorites!
Gaunter is such a great and terrifying villain that when I got the choice to fight him or not, I immediately assumed what the first option is a bad ending, because there's no chance of defeating him
The motif of a villain's theme can be a powerful thing. Indie game and Sonic-inspired game, Freedom Planet, has a villain named Lord Brevon, and his theme has many iterations. Him brooding, showcasing his power, and then the final boss themes are just his music in a more energetic tone. And it's by far one of my favorite boss themes of all time because of them.
And then in the sequel they foreshadowed his return to story relevance by making one level's theme a *very subtle* remix of Brevon's theme, with the characters realizing halfway through that level that they're dealing with his minions again. So that perceptive players might pick up on the theme only a few minutes before the reveal.
This reminds me of a video essay about Uncle Aaron/Prowler's theme from Into The Spider-verse and how its use transformed over the course of the movie.
I have not seen that but want to now lol. Who made it?
@@razbuten A little late, but Daniel Phemberton composed the theme iirc
This kind of music never makes me feel uneasy; it makes me feel hyped.
after having watched so many videos on the music theory behind these kinds of scores and motifs it’s really cool to hear someone talking about it in a more personal sense and why it feels that way without just giving a music theory reason like “oh it’s the minor second” or something like that. yeah i know there’s a minor second interval there and i know in theory what it can evoke, but there’s just something special about someone talking about it who doesn’t know that reasoning in theory and coming to the same conclusion in a very different way
Awesome video, I've always loved Sealed Vessel from Hollow Knight because of how haunting it is.
ive always found all of the associations we make with music and concepts very interesting
Not always villains, but characters turning out to be someone else is a classic twist and having the same or similar musical theme but with wildly different arrangements can be a great way of foreshadowing.
Unless you're a music nerd then it spoils you I guess ^^
It takes a special kind of smarts and amount of work to showcase well known pieces and give them even more dimensions while barley listening to them. I had chills a few time. Your content is top quality and I should say it under every video.
I also love how they did the Nowhere King in Centaurworld.
omg you just creeped me out with that melody playing after the end credits! The screen was black so I figured the video was over and started scrolling through the comments and then I hear this eerie whistling and I start getting unnerved, chilling here home alone, at night
This was one of the best game analysis on this channel AND one of the best music analysis on the youtube! Chapeau bas, dear Razbuten, chapeau bas
Gaunter O'Dimm frightened me so much with the whole, killed a man with a spoon just for drunkenly slowing geralt down for a couple of seconds that I didn't let anything slow me down from getting to the final confrontation for fear of being punished for it. His theme playing all the while.
His theme shows up in one more place you didn't mention though. In the Blood and wine DLC there is a side quest where you visit an run down house haunted by a ghoul who collects spoons. And as you read her diary, she describes an encounter with Master Mirror, where she was so rude that he did a Beauty and the Beast on her.
His theme started playing as I read this note, I was genuinely worried that he'd appear from around the corner to either punish me or sarcastically congratulate me for saving this woman from her fate.
The Witcher 3 and its expansions is a game that continues to stand out from the crowd. Gaunter is just one example of something done incredibly well in that game (although he might be the best example). From the game's music, characters, story and writing to its environments, symbolism, structure, choices and performances (voice acting) it is such an amazing feat and wonderful experience that we will probably never see again. Games like it are rare, RPGs like it even more so.
The Colgera theme from Totk is BONKERS. Saw the footage and was reminded
I've always sensed a certain evil tinting almost all the songs throughout the witcher 3... it all has an ancient, mystical vibe that i honestly havent felt in many games before or since... they just feel like they belong to a world that both always has been, and never was at the same time...
Cello version rebel path in Cyberpunk captures that energy and is weirdly fitting for the setting.
You should check out Suikoden II, in particular the Neclord theme. While not being the biggest of villains in the game, the music is fantastic, but his battle theme is incredibly memorable and just so on point for the character.
One of my favorite villain tracks is the final battle of Kid Icarus Uprising. The game is part rail shooter, part third person shooter. The rail segments, due to being scripted, have soundtrack that really TELLS the story of the level. The final battle is all rail shooter and holy shit does the soundtrack sell it. The entire battle, the theme is dark, using the motif of the villain Hades overwhelmingly, with only tiny segments that are heroic when the hero Pit gets the upper hand, but as the battle keeps going, Hades just won't go down. The music gets more desperate, darker, more ominous and creeping until, finally, at the very end, you get one final shot, and the music comes back triumphantly, and dramatic, playing Pit's motif, but in a minor key with Hades's instrumentation.
One to the best examples of themes transcending games is when you fight Soul of Cinder in DS3 and you hear Gywn's theme echo in the background which means you are fighting all those who linked the first the flame, which means you are not only fighting Gwyn, but the Chosen Undead (the character you played as in DS1 if you chose to link the flame)
We need a colab with you and Scruffy talking about some sort of music in video games
Seeing you put up a video has instantly improved my morning
19:12
Razbuten: I’ll never truly know if and when [these iconic villains] will come back
Nintendo: You’ll know if, but not when *delays Tears of the Kingdom*
Nobody tell him
If we're discussing villain themes, I really have to throw Magus from Chrono Trigger out there. The more subdued version that plays throughout his castle, then the full thing that plays in the actual battle against him, & finally the base motif that is used as you explore the kingdom of Zeal to tie it all together. No matter how many times I play it, that theme always helps keep the sense of tension.
The dueling themes motif is something I've noted in boss battles as well. One of my fav examples is the violin in "Dismiss" that plays when you fight Terranort in BBS. To me, it INSTANTLY conveyed Aqua trying to banish the darkness from her friend. So effective, so good, still hits every time.
I'd never heard of Gaunter O'dimm and looked up his theme.
WOW. That is IMPRESSIVE. It terrified me within seconds.
Him: It gets stuck in your head almost too easily
Me, listening: really? it's not that catchy
My brain, five minutes later: I beg to differ- *plays O'Dimm's theme on repeat for the next...*
...five hours...
yeah... i tried listening to the whole thing and when they started singing creepy lyrics to that tune it scared me so much I closed that tab...
A good example is the Thin Man's theme in Little Nightmares 2. The first part has a slow build up as you get your first look, then turns to a staticy mess when he chases you.
The second part has a more menacing build up, matching the realization he's a serious threat. It's a low, menacing, eerie use of his motif.
His theme is nothing like other enemy themes, 'cause he's like nothing else in the series. It lacks the usual malice and madness. It's calm, deliberate, and solemn like him.
Another fantastic game with great villain themes is undeniably Portal 2.
The game has so many great themes and motifs on it, from GladOS's deep near methodical factory like sythns to Wheatley's fast and foreboding trumpets to Caves twinkling piano spiraling into madness in Music of the Spheres.
All of these motifs and many, many others mix and interweave with each other throughout the soundtrack, perfectly juggled, always excellently carrying the story and strongholding apertures unrelenting tension.
Imo the best Glados related theme is There She Is
@@paulgrotebeverborg1119 yup, it showcases her motif very prominently
I don't often throw around my credentials because it just feels pretentious to me, but I want to this time to add a little weight to my compliment.
I've got a Masters degree in music. Some of my favorite videos of yours always involve you talking about music. I'm not sure if you are a musician or not, but you speak so intelligently about music. I love it. You are always right on the mark when speaking about music.
Just seeing this now and thank you so much! Nice to know I am not entirely off base! I played alto sax throughout school which helped give me a pretty solid baseline knowledge about music.
Really entertaining vid, Raz! Great to see you cover this topic!
The children singing O'dim's song gave me some serious chills
The ending was the cherry on top. Nice way to slip that in there.
that music transition at 6:05 was smooth as hell
This made me think about the theme for the villain in Ace Attorney 1's fifth case (Rise from the Ashes). Because it's a mystery series, the murderers can't really have traditional villain themes, that would give everything away. So the theme for the villain in Rise from the Ashes doesn't sound evil, but it gains a menace it didn't have just from the knowledge of who the villain is. At least, that's how I can best explain it without spoiling the whole case.
EVERYTIME I THINK OF SOMETHING, IT HAPPENS WTFFF!!! I decided to rewatch some of your videos today and here we are - you posted a video today... what a miracle
Gaunter O'dimm is genuinely one of the best villains in most recent fantasy games by a WIDE margin.
Terrifying.
Powerful.
Inescapable.
You can only barely trick him.
I think my favorite “evil” theme of all time is actually from Destiny of all places. The First Disciple pulls in the darkness theme and some of the witness motif along with a 3/4 time signature and heavy bass/percussion sections to really put you on edge, but the dps section pulls in bright horns and strings along with the guardians theme to almost literally fight back the darkness in the music. The brighter tenor horns go back and forth with the darker bass horns beautifully and really sells the back and forth conflict
0:45 As someone who knows nothing of this game, I can confirm I immediately knew it was a villain theme 😂
Growing up, I always had to play games on mute or very low volume as my parents didn’t like it. As an adult, I realized this has led me to miss out on many iconic themes. Like Cynthia’s theme from Pokémon. I never heard it before Volo (where as an adult I played on full volume)
The best games have music that is specifically made to fit that game and its scenario's. A boss fight theme might sound imposing, but the best boss themes aren't always the most bombastic, but sometimes adding a bit of a kind feeling in the music if the boss is deep down a nice guy, helps so much
1:30 I had this but with ocarina of time's ganondorf theme the "dun-dun-dun-duuuu duuun" in the battle
0:35 Yah, yeah, as soon as it started I got goosebumps.
Another interesting technique is incorporating elements of the menu theme in the final boss music of the game, Elden Ring being a prominent example and Solasta being a great example as well but less well-known.
The Dark Beast Ganon theme from Breath of the Wild is insanely good. The piano goes hard on that one lol
Great ending, I though the video had fully ended so looked up from what I was working on to see where that music was coming from.
2:25
Me who did 5 Music Theory Exams: I understood *some(?)* of those words
Anubis from ZOE 2nd runner has entered. Man that entrance/ song is so menacing. Such presence.
One of the antagonist i love the most is the black knight from fire emblem path of radiance and radiant dawn
music is important in this game, every faction has a music. When you are near victory(one ennemy left or no ennemies) you usualy get a special fanfare that signals you are gonna win and its celebrating you.
So when the black knight shows up, his theme kicks in. A dark military march that seems unstopable. and then the wind instruments kick in and you realise thats its a somber and vilain victory fanfare. The music is telling you he won by showing up so dont fight him. Upon his defeat, you dont get the glory to see him dead, a castle falls on him and he is left to the rubbles...
so it hits oh so deeply when his theme kicks in the second game, the source of many problems, supposed dead, coming back to plow through the living.
0:34 This also reminds me of how good the Trigun antagonist music is too.
“Whistle while you work”takes on an entirely different feeling when Gaunter O’Dimm is around.
19:39 Zanza: *cackles maniacally*
My favorite usage of Ganon’s theme is as you’re ascending Hyrule Castle in Twilight Princess. The music starts as a faded out, defeated version of the Hyrule Castle theme, played in the flute or oboe. As you ascend the tower, Ganon’s theme rises to accompany and then entirely overpower the Hyrule Castle theme
Heard Gaunter's theme on a random short and I had to instantly look up the full song. So good.
No theme as ever hit me as hard as "End Times" from Outer Wilds i.e. the "ah shit I'm out of time again!" Theme (no spoilers). Especially the motifs eventual inclusion in the later score, Final Voyage and others. I feel like this fits in the same category some how!
yes!!!
Funny how this video is almost 22 minutes
@@sebtrainwoo 😱😱😱 ∆∆∆ confirmed!
1:28 That's how I felt about Mantis hymn in Metal Gear Solid, there's something distinctly different and uncomfortable about it than all the tracks we hear until then. To this day it still creeps me out.
11:23 Seeing him roll here was so nostalgic
I find it so interesting and funny that you point out the differences between OoT and WW's Ganon themes, and how WW feels like a much more ancient and calculated version of Ganondorf, in contrast to OoT where he was much more brash and arrogant. It's fascinating, because both Ganondorfs are one and the same.
In OoT he is much younger, full of pride and confidence, practically riding a power trip until he gets felled and imprisoned by the gods. Then as hundreds of years pass, he eventually slips free of his banishment, and rises to power in WW once more. This time older, and with much, MUCH more time to carefully plot his takeover.
While the exact, minute details are impossible to convey through music alone, the fact that the subtle differences in theme were able to paint SUCH an accurate picture of the King Of Thieves and his story, is incredible.
Gaunter O'Dimm is basically a hybrid between classical depictions of the Devil and Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep.
Regardless of how true or not it is that he's actually the very embodiment of evil itself or if he's simply too beyond us to have any morality we can comprehend, the entity known as Master Mirror manages to embody everything that we fear, while himself appearing outwardly non-threatening, seeming to treat reality itself as nothing more than a quaint and amusing game.
Gaunter'O'Dim truly is a villain of all time ive rarely been so unnerved from a villian as this.
You need an adjective after a so it seems like a compliment. Otherwise, it just means that they are a villian. The "a something of all time" format is actually an insult showing mediocrity.
@@anthonynorman7545 oh hush it was clearly a mistake, you know what they mean
@@jogglenoggle9579 I'm just making sure they know. No one understands everything.
@anthonynorman7545 Hahha, I appreciate the grammatical correction 😅 but i was joking a little with how i said it. People say stuff in that style like "Breaking bad is the show of all time" or "witcher 3 truly is a game" Really nonsensical internet speak. Sorry for confusion gents, but appreciate the thought! 💪😎👍‼️
The start of this video reminded me of how much I love Final Fantasy VII's OST and in particular how fucking good the final dungeon's music is. I can not get enough of like every song that plays there.
Thank you for the reminder to listen to more Game Soundtracks. Last time I did it was RDR1 and Binding of Isaac back in the day... Through bundles I own days of wonderful game scores. Thanks a lot, Raz
Amazing videos man, I just discovered your channel and it's always overwhelming to see someone speak with such passion of video games.
I would just say, when talking about music, I would've loved to hear the themes after/before you talked about them, instead of behind your voice, to better appreciate them and get a full grasp of what you're talking about. Keep up the good work 💖
This isn't a song, but I've always thought that the deep droning sound the reapers in mass effect make fits them perfectly
I've always been drawn more to villain's more than any other character type. Whether it be in games, movies, or tv shows, everything about them is way more interesting to me. From their character, their ideologies, their motivations, and yes, their music.