How a Tiny Team Created the Best Tracks in Sim Racing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- We like our racing games with laser-scanned tracks. Historically, nobody has done this better than Studio 397 with rFactor 2.
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I always love the small details in tracks like little cracks or texture on the tarmac
I still love RFactor 2, even with AI, thanks to a nice video made by a certain Ermin :) And I agree fully, those tracks....wow...
AI still has its warps, but with some community supplied tweaks to the player.json file and with the improvements introduced in the most recent build - making multiclass racing now possible, with the faster class cars no longer getting stuck behind slower class cars in their in-lap and the AI now making adequate decisions based on track conditions, ie weather - the racing against the AI can be great.
Same here.I've been having some great RF2 ai races lately,in both wet and dry conditions.
So, still waiting on the “How” of “How a tiny team created the best tracks in sim racing.”
Really just heard a 3rd party ad on how great the tracks are, not the nuts and bolts of how it was done. The nitty gritty trials and tribulations of how they do it.
Sorry to be the negative nelly, but it has to be said.
Hey Ermin,
Finally saved up enough to get my Fanatec DD setup after tears of pining. Ordered it last night, and your affiliate was of course the one I chose when buying.
Thanks for doing all that you do, with the dark sense of humour and sprinkle of sarcasm I love. Go you!🤙
Not related to rfactor, but i meat one of the guys who did the vast majority of the laser scanning for tracks in iracing and it was really cool hearing him described in detail the way they went about scanning my hometown track Lime Rock Park to ridiculously famous places like the Nurburgring. He was in his mid 60s too. Cool to see older people interested in the sim racing genre too
Wait, they scan the tracks themselves? I thought they just bought the data from the track owners themselves
I love this sim even with all of its issues. I commonly do endurance racing with the AI and (so far) haven’t had many issues with them being too murderous. I haven’t put many mods into the game. For me, it’s one of the best for multiclass endurance and iRacing is just way too expensive to do that on
I love, LOVE how you keep using old-school Need for Speed music, it's nostalgic as hell for me
Have you tried downloading the original NFS cars for AC? All that is missing is the music and tracks!
@@chuckystang Trying to get my DD Pro shipped but that sounds like a good time i gotta try!
love it for all the physics/FFB and added immersion put recently but must say the new UI has really pushed me to use it more than the other Sims I own, was a Game changer for me, litterally
The fact you can even see the tarmac repairs that have been done to the real tracks is insane
I absolutely love these types of videos, your style is so unique to the sim racing community, keep it going Ermin!
RF2 has great tracks and nice physics. So it can get me hyped sometimes.
Then I see the prices of dlc, headless AI and the menu and how you have to setup a custom race and I quit and start a game that welcomes me.
You are wrong about the AI. It has some warps, but 10 minutes of fine tuning, respecting some ground rules (do practice, quali & race) and you will have excellent AI behaviour.
The AI learns tracks, plus they are affected by slow track conditions, cold tires, and wait for it.... untested curbs. The first few laps I've seen cars flip and its hilarious. You can adjust the AIs traction and brake limits. Theres an option to modify the mistakes as well if they are too perfect.
@@valter_vava74 I am not wrong. Even the developer told me directly that they know of the AI bug and will try to solve it (in a YT reaction)
Something did go wrong with the Sebring track implementation and its pretty hard to fix so it seems.
@@Bambeakz The current and unresolved AI issue is the throttle input bug, which was introduced inadvertently a couple of years ago, which is the AI no longer modulating throttle and having binary (on-off-on-off) inputs. This is what cause 90% of the current AI snags, which are much much less frequent if you change some values on the player.json file (it's a 5 minute job) and then tweak the in game settings to certain, true and tested values, and make sure to run Practice & Quali before a race (you can accelerate time).
@@valter_vava74 But why should you pay for a game that you have to fix yourself, if you're paying it should work out of the box. That's just one of the problems though, the AI is completely broken as soon as an FCY happens. They can't race multiclass worth a shit either.
you should know that Lilski, Johnr777 and a few other guys do tracks from scratch using lidar data (individually, not as a team) for AC1 and they do it for free. And they are better than most of the big names corporations tracks.
Their Road America track was certainly fabulous.
thanks for all the positivism, it's pretty rare when it comes to rf2. still my biggest love in sim racing
Positivism is not a word
@@n0body550 it is
These are some solid tracks to get around! Seems I need to check out RF2..
Clicking on the YT thumb. teased by the vid title tag - and not to take anything from S397, but The Targa TEAM's impressive track work is on a completely different planet IMO. Though no laser scanning, ofcourse, it still by far for me beats the mentioned tracks.
Been enjoying their 1967 Targa Florio work ever since first test-versions for GPL and later conversions to GTR2, rF1, GTL...and now also the impressive work of rF2 conversion.
Got Rfactor on sale a while ago, and I have to say it certainly is an amazing sim. BUT it’s a tinkerer’s game. For install and run experience people might want to look the other way. But if you like to ”get your hands dirty”, there’s a lot to love in rFactor 2. It looks amazing these days, especially with the new official tracks. And for the AI, well it certainly has personality and you can create nice multiclass races not available in this scale in any other sim. A dip in the json -files can make the experience even better.
I see some differences between the Nordschleife and Sebring in rF2 and other sims, but I can't see any with the new tracks and the ones in AMS2 inducing curbs and run-offs, excluding trackside objects. Micro details might be different or it's just the rF2 feel, but I'm quite sure they at least were made with the same laserscan. But certainly it feels different and both are in my Top 2.
Brands hatch might be my favorite track to drive in all of Sim racing. Every single corner is super fun every single lap. Absolutely love it!
3:44 that’s the soundtrack in Interstate 76’!
For the old bearded guys that played it :) It had a great story, some poetry, disco, and one of the most cinematic intro in video games.
can you imagine how different Rf2 would be if they had an easy to use server program (with linux CLI binary)? there would be so many communities who would start self hosting races and competitions/leagues.
I have no idea what that means but you are right.
I only hot lap in RF2, the FFB and car feel is something else "in a good way" but more often than not I use it to warm up.
I spend most of my time on iRacing and Assetto Corsa and I mean i absolutely love them but i always forget about rfactor 2. It’s always so much fun to just drive in it’s just kinda easy to overlook. Like last night i spent about an hour driving an Indycar at the IMS road course in the wet, just me no ai and it was so much freaking fun.
Well there was another video a few days ago and they were only whining about prices etc...
Awesome stuff @Ermin HamSandich, you kept it real!
Tracks take a very short time to load since several months ago!! Move your sim to an SSD drive and watch the magic happens.
I love rf2 and it was my first sim that i used for leagues since 2016 but i can't live only with this tracks details. The physics of vehicles need to be improved a lot. The sliding style is the fastest way and it is the more irrealistic type of driving. I hope that they will invest in the physic zone and not only creating tracks and few cars. Also the Online system need an upgrade. The actual competition system without a score for each driver didn't give me the motovation to race casually with other people
I think what rF2 gets wrong is what iRacing has gotten right for the most part, stable parent company, strong multiplayer base, etc. iRacing's tracks might not be on the level of rF2's, but they're pretty close and continue to find ways to surprise me every time I run, finding out the bump that exists off of turn 2 in real life b/c of a gate at IMS is there in the sim, stuff like that is really neat and really fun to find. I feel like this is the same level of detail that likely appears in the RF2 tracks, where you'll almost always find a new little detail every time you load up the track.
It seems that all the quality control resources have been allocated to track department and none is left over for rest of the game.
What is amazing about spa is also how the light and shadow changes with moving clouds every lap. Somethings some sun rays in a corner and next lap fully cloudy. Feels so real on tracks like Spa. Also brands hatch does it well. But is only good on latest updated content.
Can you play some LFS
R factor is one title I’ve owned for a year and still never even installed.
This thing that "TH-camrs" have about RF2 not having a player base is utter nonsense. There's a tonne of quality racing leagues/championships out there with full grids. GPVWC, GPU, WSR, FSR, TGM just to name a few. If you're hesitant about joining the RF2 community, wait until the Steam sales and bag yourself a few cars and tracks (there's also plenty of free quality mods) and come join us!
That Sebring clip gives me 1 thing to say “oh C8.R”😂. Jokes aside love all the content you make, high quality and very informative keep at it mate
Sim talk: rFactor2
Talk about: Circuits
BGM at start: Ace Combat 2
Hotel? Trivago.
Used to be my go to sim, only thing holding s397 back is of course the online system and the requirement to have all dlc present to take part vs just the car & track for iR
Shame the prices for these tracks (and cars) is just way too high. A quarter of the price would bring more ppl. Such a waste
I feel like licensing tracks to other games would be a great move for the developers. I also doubt they would ever do it and will fade into obscurity.
Yep! Agree
I am gonna be throw in Laguna Seca for a 3 hour endurance race in gt4 in a few weeks my only practice i will
Get in rfactor 2 so i will let you know how accurate it is
I found the Nordschleife in rF2 confusing to drive. Knowing the real track it felt like I'm in the wrong place, not as bad as Pcars2 or AMS 2 but not as good as iRacing, AC or RR. The laser scan source is not as important as what you will do with it and how accurate trackside things are. I also think that most examples in the video like Brands Hatch look better and more detailed in ACC, for example these round bubbles in Brands Hatch that ACC offer and most other Sims don't.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't rfactors physics so accurate that they are used by manufactures for testing and prototyping?
That's rfactor pro, developed by a different company, and simply constitutes a framework that manufacturers code their own data into. It has very little to no relevance to rfactor 2 at this point.
@@Ermz ah okay, thanks for clarifying
It doesn't take 15 mins to load a track. In fact it's much faster than iracing!
Agree
On my system a small/average size track takes about 20/25 seconds to load after the first, slower, time and large tracks like Nords takes about 50 seconds.
rfactor 2 has so much potential but they just do not have the basics down yet. seems like an amazing game with modern day cars and tracks but the small details that can really change a games quality are just not there
The DLC’s are just too expensive. @ almost AU$15 per track this is scam racing prices & as you said unless like hot lapping their isn’t much else. The AI is pretty average & inconsistent. If they halved their prices they might renew some interest. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻🙃🙃
What are you talking about? How else do you think they should compete with iRacing? iRacing with it's yearly 100€ subscriptions and every car and track costing around 10€ is like 10 times more than what rF2 even sells combined
iR tracks are more expensive by piece, are older scans with lower frequency and you don't notice the same level of feedback anyway due to their crappy FFB. It's not just hotlapping, there is plenty of stuff with the workshop to drive, maybe with friends, maybe alone.
@@fridolfgranq Iracing is a ripoff, doesnt mean all sims have to be.
@@dustyice3110 Is this level of detail for 15€ a ripoff to you? That's literally the same amount as I pay for a McDonalds meal here in Finland. Now which one do you think I'm more inclined to buy?
@Ten Seconds Slower That's a fair counter argument. Though I wouldn't go as far as calling rF2 a ripoff
meanwhile me: *cries in automobilista 2*
jokes aside, ams2 is pretty much my go-to sim atm
Njaa take advance from that needs also a good tire model
Agree.
S397's master discipline is the track modding.
Beside the physic, the FFB.. 😁👍
Was that music from Interstate '76? Groovy!
Great video as always!
RF2 is without doubt, the most frustratingly brilliant sim on the market. When I drive it, there is nothing that compares, the visuals are good and the new sound engine in on par with anything else. But why oh why can I not even have one race with the AI without it turning into a wreck fest. Typical race, first corner, mass AI pileup, full course yellow, I sit behind the safety car for 2 laps, safety car comes in, first corner mass pileup, guess what full course yellow, safety car comes out again. Maybe there is an AI setting that stops them from driving like complete lunatics, I am relatively new to RF2 so I might be doing something wrong. This game above all others makes me feel like I am in that car and in that race, the VR is amazing and so immersive but then it goes and ruins it. I really want to buy all of the DLC but just cannot if I can’t have a decent offline experience. Hopefully it will get fixed, but as I say, I am new so do not know how long it has been like this. Here’s hoping!
There isn't much you can do to the AI, but definitely disable safety car, run rules on 'black flag only' setting to actually have a bit of time to race. Safety car is also very buggy, so definitely try to avoid using safety car settings.
Yup... unfortunate the rFactor style is to move some obscure setting and hope that improve your experience.
Look for "AI MISTAKES" feature in the player.json file and play with it, even set it to 0... wile in the player.json file look fo "Autocalibrate AI Mode" and set it to 1; when ever you do practice sesión with the Ai, it will correct it ideal line and gets better; or it can be a placebo effect...
also set the aggression low, even to 0 to stop the Ai from trowing it car to you (and other Ai's), and don't overdue with the Ai strength, anything over 100% simply overpower the Ai and some time make them uncontrollable.
play with the values to find one that fits your driving style.
I prefer murderous Ai (agresión to 80 or more), it simulate to great degree an online open lobby and force me to learn how to drive with aggressive drivers.
Thank you for your advice, will try this out, didn’t know you could turn the safety car off.
I've rarely seen that. Which cars/tracks do you use? Free mods have varying levels of quality.
Looks like good quality tracks but this is the first time I’m not going to buy the new content. The things RF2 does well don’t make up for the issues.
Cool review! Question Which sim-racer has the best AI ie: fun to race against / life like. JFYI: I played Wreckfest (not a sim) but man, is fun to play against the AI really challenging at times.
Got rFactor 2 on the Humble Bundle sale. Decided to give it a go, installed it, but never managed to make it work. At first tracks and cars were not loading, then I installed some, but realized I would have to add each one separately as content. Then the FFb was not working even though I set it up according to the in-game steps. As good as the game might be, it's 2022 and this level of problems during installation is unacceptable.
Your loss dude
@@shaundodd7390 I would actually argue its S397's loss. These exact problems plague a lot of people and it'll never be as successful as it can and should be until it gets the basics of good game design right.
New content looks amazing in VR. Rfactor 2 for me has the sharpest, clearest graphics in VR, better than AMS2 which suffers from flickering, shimmering. It also works well with VR performance toolkit, so I can get very sharp image on G2. Tracks are pricey, but the amount of detail is crazy, so I dont mind paying it in the end. Did laguna seca Yesterday, havent seen a better looking version yet. Was disappointed with AMS 2 version of it. I hope more content comes, but also hope they update older GT3, GTE cars to standard of current cars. Like Porsche GTE cockpit needs some update. The sound is finally also up to par. New sound engine is so immersive. Keeps me from going back to raceroom, as I love good sound.
Come on..you must be kidding? I'm going to give it a try once again!
Last time i tried rf2 in 2021, i was very disappointed about the look and the performance in vr. I run a G2 as well. 3090 rtx.
Have to agree, it looks really good in VR now, AMS2 does suffer from shimmering but does run slightly better for me, still trying to dial in rf2 so it runs well in all conditions and times of day. The FFB Though, wow it blows everything else away. Shame about the AI.
@@rendrag72 I have steam vr SS combined at 80% (global 50 and game specific 160). I use the VR performance kit version 0.3 which has just a dxgi.dll and yml file. In the yml file I have the following for my G2. Type: fsr, renderscale 0.9, sharpness 0.8, radius 0.6. scroll down to FFR settings where there are 3 values needed for radius. From top to bottom I have 0.3, 0.4 and outer 1.2.
@@-racingfan2014 thank you for the advice, where do you get the VR performance kit from?
I love Laguna Seca, and I really want to get my little Porsche down there to try and not die on the corkscrew
I bought RF2 on sale. I haven't played it yet because it's a nightmare to navigate with your VR headset on. Maybe I'll crack it open again and give it another shot.
ok i know this isnt relevant to the video at any way at all, but ermin u should make ur own team on ACC and do a series
i think people would enjoy that
and great video
Don't think I don't see you using that Interstate '76 music!
I own this sim and still have no idea how to launch it.
As a VR player o despise those abominations that are hands in this game, S397 please if you ever see this , please update play model :D , otherwise Ermz great video, really enjoyed it.
i know that NASCAR heat uses rFactor 2 tyre and car dynamics simulation models. i also know that apparently you can inquiry studio 397/Motorsport games regarding licensing their simulation code for your game.
i don't have the cash myself to get a licence since i'm a solo dev but i wonder if someone with pockets deep enough will actually get that code and put it in a racing game on unreal 5.
laser scanned tracks from AC are incredibly low poly, they give you the bumpy feeling but that's all illusion. in UE5 actual cracks in the tarmac are proper geometry, not just textures. i wonder how simulators will handle that much road info
UE engine is not appropriate for simracing due to extremely high latency.
Kunos is moving away from UE for AC2. That should tell enough about the problems it creates.
I didn't know any of this about RF2. I've played it, and I adored the physics, but I've struggled so much with the UI. Does anyone know if there's anything along the lines of Content Manager for RF2? Or is there anything I'm missing that everyone knows about that improves the UI? It's just too much of a pain... I always know that with Assetto Corsa, I can use Content Manager to easily navigate the menu, install and organize mods, and race with any number of incredible vehicle mods at just about any track in the world... And because of that, AC gets my attention over RF2 every time, unfortunately.
I love rFactor 2 and own almost all stuff. The quality is top notch, feeling of the cars, tracks, weather all of it BUT no matter what I do most of the time I spent is fiddling with json file and somehow get the sim to work smooth. There are so many issues in the background that need fixing if they want to make the sim our go to sim. So many rendering issues, micro stutters, sounds. I think all of this superb stuff they push is hold back becouse of the old engine they use. For example in Raceroom i can set what kind of race I want and have awesome experience no matter what car I choose. Sadly this isn't possible in rFactor 2.
The sound is fantastic, but you need to edit out the sharp ends of the bubbles of your tounge, the breathing and just the pops of your voice troughoutht you’re videos if you upgrade this step.
I have a DD1 and CS Formula wheel, I've tried a few times to hop into RF2 (do iRacing mostly) but can never get my settings and wheel setup right and loose patience quickly. I just bought the Pro Formula pack DLC so... guess I need to revisit and spend some more time trying to get things setup properly.
I hope they add a create public/private lobby option for multiplayer. You are right that for offline racing this game is unmatched. For online I unfortunately have to switch to Raceroom or AMS 2.
30 car WTCC races in R3E are inane. I love it. I always finish in the middle of the pack no matter where i start.
@@labounti the AI on raceroom is the most enjoyable to race against for sure.
I thought this was gonna talk about the game and not just all the content you can buy LMFAO
They should pack all this and release rF3 to hype and make new fanbase. I know it dirty but hey it has worked for SMS at some point haha.
rF2 is king!
Ermin i have a question about your pedals Heusinkveld Sprint Pedals do they work with fannatec bases or do i need someting else to use them everyone can awnser if they would like to help me love your videos Ermin
You plug them into the PC via a USB connection - entirely separate to your Fanatec gear.
rF2's Sebring is still the best modelled track, all sims/tracks considered.
That's pretty sad, I was planning to start my Sim racing adventure with rFactor2, but I think I will stick to Assetto Corsa Competizione
You would think they could license the track detail to other development teams
I’ve tried and tried to get into rf2 but just misses the mark for me .
I really love Raceroom, glad to see rf2 getting the love tho
I bought r factor 2 on steam but something doesn’t work right game doesn’t load no maps or cars
Update i downloaded some things from workshop and now everything works
So what is the favored sim if not Rfactor 2?
I for one will wait and see if new owner will add the other cars and tracks for BTCC .
damn that interstate 76 ost came out of nowhere
Its not for everyone, thankfully it is for me. It took me 3 days to fix the game after the last update broke it. None of the internet solutions worked. I may or may not have fixed it but i replicated the problem. Don't use "4xMSAA" at ultra 1440p. Something so simple breaks the game from loading. I have 12gb of vram, no reason for this to happen.
After that I've enjoyed racing the AI and love the physics more than AC.
But how does this compare to iRacing's laser scans?
Rf2 is the SIM where you spent more time in fixing problems than the developers do.
Sebring was my cupids arrow for rF2
I wish the AI wasn't wonky. Is it too difficult or too embedded (code locked down) of a problem for modders to fix?
They really need to fix their DLC pricing, if they make a proper pack I will buy it but im not spending 200 euros for all that.
is that ridge racer music I hear?
I didn’t know it was from the Netherlands, proud to be Dutch once again 🥹
Can you do an update on settings for a csl dd for r factor 2, acc, ac and a few other sims? Please
The real fake cars we drive for nothing are the friends we make along the way hahaha
Somehow, I feel that describing the developers' attention to detail on track meshes as "borderline autistic" doesn't create the effect you were going for.
I don't mind racing with AI at all. I don't have much time to race these days, and usually when I'm free is when Europe is sleeping, so I can't really join any league.
And most public lobbies are horrible, full of stupid people who can't drive at all. Join any Assetto Corsa (1) pub server and see the biggest collection of stupid people you'll ever encounter.
Can you do a pricing comparison video between, ACC, Rfactor 2, iRacing and AMS2. And which one should a starter start with.. Thanks!
RaceRoom start with that. Best force feedback best AI free too play content is very reasonably priced.
Depends on what you want to drive. If you want to drive GT3/GT4 cars exclusively? ACC. If not, then it depends on if you want to hotlap and race AI, or race other people online. For the former, AMS2 is awesome, especially in VR. You can still race online, but unless you find a league, it'll be random lobbies. If you want to race online against others iRacing doesn't really have any competition outside of ACC in the GT3/GT4 categories. If you can stick to the included content and only buy cars and tracks that you know you'll use, well, it's still kind of expensive. If you want to buy all the content, it'll put a sizeable dent in your wallet, so not a good choice if you just want to mess around hotlapping. iRacing really shines online, so if that part isn't your main focus, it'll feel like too much for too little. I'm a big iRacing fan, but honestly, I don't suggest anyone start with it. The original AC is actually the best place to start. With a few choice mods it'll look incredible, and you can get just about any car or track you want as a mod as well.
Ah yes AC is probably my 2nd choice for something to start out with. When it goes on sale it is only about AU$7 & there are some fantastic mods for it a lot of crap also. But for someone just started out Raceroom is my recommendation as it doesn’t cost anything you get a couple of good tracks some really good cars & you can test drive any car they have before you buy. iRacing has a good online system but it is dam expensive. The cost of a one year sub will buy you everything on Raceroom or ACC with change. AMS2 looks great but that’s where it ends for me it’s a simcade.
@@matk4731 Not that I want to rehatch this old argument, but how do you figure AMS2 is not a sim? Personally, I think the word simcade is just stupid. It's either a sim or it isn't. If it's goal is realism, then it's a sim. AMS2 may have some flaws but realism is still the goal and they are constantly improving it in that direction. It's fine if you don't like it, but that doesn't make it less of a sim. It's a game if it intentionally dumbs down the physics, or other aspects and includes things like points for things like drifts or overtakes, or missions that have nothing to do with driving or racing.
@@angryginger791
You can think what you like we can all have our own opinion. For me AMS2 drives like crap 💩 (arcade like) it’s trying to be a sim but just can’t quite pull it off hence the word simcade.
What is a mesh?
I mean I have rf2 and I the only real thing I do on it is simracing as it is becoming it’s primary target now
racedepartment do amazing free downloads for rf2, with a strong modding community. Rf2 is not as dead as many think! :D
Ermin returning to his roots being a rF2 fanboy.
100%
Actually AMS2 has the most recent scans of the Nordschife, but why let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
They don't.
Such a silly final monologue. People don't need to go out and pay a fortune for all of rfactor2's content right off the bat. They can go out and buy the game for like 30€ (or less in a Steam sale) and test the game without dlc. There are already laser scanned tracks such as Silverstone and Portland built into the game. If you don't like it, call it quits at that point. If you do like it, pick up the dlc gradually and wait for steam sales if budget is tight. There's plenty of online racing going on in rf2, but yeah until people get playing it the grid sizes will not be what they deserve to be.
Also the number of 'issues' which Ermin describes I simply no longer accept. I've played a ton of sims, none of them is bug free. Rf2 is perfectly serviceable as is, and it's getting better.
Silverstone and Portland are not laser scanned but they're nice nevertheless. Btw anybody can buy an rF2 cd-key for ~$3, not $30.
@@bslay4r thx for correction
$10ish per track kinda sucks when game isn't even FTP..and Laguna Seca is built more on coastal sand dunes than the desert
Do you think the parent company would consider releasing this for console?
Dont buy RF2, just wait for Reboot Team to bring the Tracks to Assetto
shit now i wanna buy it
The goto sim for me.
I still don't understand why some "SimFluencer" are unable to do some online racing in RF2, and blame the RF2 for it when, on the other hand, some other "SimFluencer" are able to do an online race in RF2 almost every day
Unfortunately no good menue, no big community, no big online racing, no rating system… I am still on iRacing - every day competitive racing every hour in every class with full grid