Homeworld on GOG - gog.la/BananaShipQuest EDIT: Since the 1.3 patch they've added in a lot more artifacts for War Games along with new challenges and the DLC fleets, more skirmish maps and overhauls to it including proper tech trees and different AI behaviors, new damage and directional armor rebalancing to make the fights last longer, better and less buggy ship AI and the ability to linger in some campaign missions you couldn't before.
I honestly don't get why people are reading that much into it. It's a common phrase that I can expect in a sci-fi that is either making fun of management or has dystopic themes. Either way, there is nothing special about it.
@@Razgriz_01 It pretty much fits in the timeline of all the recent failed games. I think something happened in the development somewhere that changed the direction of the game.
Animating somewhat photorealistic humans with disney pixar animation principals really makes every cutscene look like a fake east asian mobile game ad.
@@Kamfrenchie I think in part it is because her face is, and this might come across as rude, but...androgynous. She has a pretty pronounced brow ridge and...her jaw....maybe that was the point: she being like, a representation of all of humanity, but you could stick her face on a male body and I would be none the wiser. It really just adds to the uncanny feel in some scenes.
Mandalore trying his best to talk about what he likes in this game despite the rest is funnily a great example of "professionals under stress" voice acting
@@StyryderX I think I've watched almost every video that MandaloreGaming has ever made and I don't recall him breaking as bad as he did at the end of the story discussion
"My Project Director told me I had to "put a human face on things" so here I am" It took 14 ppl to put together a story for this thing. And only 1 phrase from 1 true writer to burn it.
The story is of such low quality I would have expected one politically-motivated writer. Too many cooks in the kitchen, all with bad motives. They put the REAL writer on MANUAL duty. Jeez.
Is there any truth to these folks being sweet baby consultants? I generally think the heat around them is mostly from people blaming their virginity on them but if Gearbox/BBI was farming the story out to this many writers, something straight up went wrong in production and they all need a stern talking to.
@@KingThrillgoreit probably didn't help at all, more hands is always worse. But it didn't suddenly cause the story to be garbage. It was always garbage. Tge industry really needs to collapse again.
@@ALEXANDER1318 lmao, really? I did not know that. I ‘member being quite disappointed with Black&White 2 as it just felt rather forced city builder as opposed to do what you want god sandbox. I was never sure if it was Peter being Peter or publishers pushing then trends on a novel but popular IP. Sounds like it was Peter after reading that.
For anyone who was confused like me what the bit at the beginning was about: That is the old emblem for Kith Somtaaw, when they were a minor clan no one respected. It was updated to be a much sicker design at the end of Homeworld: Cataclysm when they defeated the beast and became renowned as the Beast Slayers. The fact that they got the wrong emblem is a sign of the poor care to come.
The crazy part is that the Beast Slayer version of the emblem is in the game, it's just not used for the pre-made Somtaaw faction in the final game, doubly weird since IIRC they did use it for the Somtaaw allies in the demo's tutorial. Though tbh, I thought the intro was just Mandy wilding over Somtaaw being in the game and Cataclysm being canon again.
@@splitjawjanitor5369 i can already picture the scene: > the devs actually doing their due diligence and making the right emblem > in comes clown art lead or project lead who doesn't understand wtf they're doing and telling them to change the emblem
Yeah I was thinking of this game as I used to like the original Homeworld games, but after watching the story line, nah... Watching the Emperor in Homeworld 1 die in his Flagship was satisfying, and watching Makaan die yet still be a posthumous threat in the last mission of Homeworld 2 raised the stakes... But what trash was this?
I genuinely miss when Karan S'jet was just a national hero because she was fleet command during HW1. She wasn't the Chosen One getting fought over by rival chosen ones.
Source code was lost sadly, imagine a world where the remastered collection included cataclysm, that was the plan, also f*** blizzard for forcing them to change the name to convergence
@@Marcara081they missed a trick not having her eat or stamp on somebody then, maybe have the antagonists be anthropomorphic wolves, and whilst we're at it they put enough diversities amongst the Higarans that not feeding the ir audience is just wasted potential (for extra spice, make Imogen explicitly Jewish, the Kushan story was very old testament and the Sjets are the elite caste so it fits). It could at least have been a game that fed niche fetishes instead of a mediocre game with weak writing
@@Marcara081 A fetish is an object. You're thinking of a deviation. And yes, the kind that makes men dream of being stepped on by Godzilla-sized women is probably the most pathetic I can think of.
It's genuinely incomprehensible to me that a Homeworld game that came out after Deserts of Kharak could have a story THAT BAD. Like, Homeworld 1 and Cataclysm are absolute slam-dunks with regards to not just their stories but how they TOLD their stories, then they stumbled with Homeworld 2, corrected with Deserts of Kharak, and then smashed themselves in the balls with a rake at the finish line here with 3. What the fuck.
@@araamahasla555Are you really claiming that Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion is somehow responsible for bad writing here? Get out of here and go push your stupid agenda somewhere else.
The best part of "worse than the Gaalsien" for me was that the commander of my most powerful ship at the time... was a Gaalsien. And then we sent Intel straight to HR for sensitivity training
Same Especially since he loves Cataclysm so much and wants more underdog story and not just focused on S'jet, even when I purposely not to spoil myself before I buy or see him review it, the moment I learned it is another S'jet story, I already thought this would annoy him. What's even more impressive is my expectation was already low, and it somehow get WAY LOWER than I anticipated
It was like watching "old yeller". He loved the series so much, dispite its flaws... having it end like this. It just hurts. I wish I could have shielded him from the pain.
If you want your villain to be sympathetic, maybe DON'T have them explicitly kill billions of innocents at the very start over what essentially were hurt feelings and egomania?
That still doesn't preclude them from being sympathetic. The issue is that it's framed as if they *shouldn't* be subject to shocking ball torture until the heat death of the universe as punishment.
Yes but you see, you believe in justice which clouds your eyes to the possibility that you can empathize with the villain and see that by virtue of feeling that way, it's legitimate because you can't disprove feelings, right? It honestly like tweens wrote this: 'But what if the villainess really felt that she had to do it? How can you blame her when if you felt that strongly, you would do it too?' They unironically do not understand justice. Like, they made content that just can't grasp something with a higher ethical obligation than personal validation.
The lead narrative writer is a bad person and know it but she want redemption (for free) so she wrote this cringe absurdity. How far May I be from reality?
"The subject did not survive interrogation" was a memorable line for me, too. It encapsulates the subtle emotion and humanity behind the professionalism of the Hiigaran fleet command.
It's a very realistic way of bureaucratically papering over the nastier sides of war. "The interrogators were so angry they tortured the captive to death" gets turned into "the captive did not survive interrogation."
Yeah. I loved it because it showed how both sides could be very cold and hateful. But you (as commander) needed to focus on what was important for a PEOPLE.
S'jet still gets to have the prestige it gained a hundred years prior yet Somtaaw's relegated back to their Miner emblem despite saving the entire galaxy.
@@StrikeWarlock Is homeworld cataclysm even canon? Did Somtaaw really save the galaxy if they put it in danger to begin with? If someone leaves a carriage unattended and then stops it from going into traffic at the last second, should that person really be applauded for saving the baby?
@@hypothalapotamus5293 Last time I heard it was "dubiously canon". And yes, they absolutely do deserve the recognition. The cargo could have ended with the pirats or worse having nobody to stand up to the beast by the time things turn bad.
@@sipofsunscorchedsarsaparil6052 I always thought of it as a fever dream. Cataclysm goes pretty Star Wars Legends+Babylon5+event horizon in a way that other homeworld titles don't. Looking back, you are right that the Turanic raiders would have found it, but a cutscene also implies that Somtaaw management wanted the ROI from the beacon for themselves and possibly took a lot of unnecessary risks that the main voice actor disagreed with. Was it good practice to research the capsul aboard the Kuun-Lan? Probably not.
@@hypothalapotamus5293 The leadership was not much better than the other parties that could've gotten hold of it, but at least the captain of the ship was ready to save everything.
@StyryderX yeah if you think the yelling about them killing homeworld is bad now, imagine if you'd actually personally killed Karan S'Jet for suddenly turning evil for some reason in this game
The only thing I knew about homeworld 3 was my friend who’s a really big homeworld fan randomly pinging me one day and asked “hey you wanna play Nebulous Fleet Command?” When I asked why he wasn’t playing HW3 he responded with “playing homeworld 3 made me think, huh I should play Nebulous”
just so people don't get the wrong impression, because I love Nebulous Fleet Command myself too but it plays NOTHING like Homeworld except for being ships in space, especially the current game setup until the Conquest mode gets added, but even then, how ships function and battle it out is more like a Cold War era submarine game but in space that uses radar instead of sonar. MP is based around 3,000 point system (where the fleet you build is a compromise based on weapons & systems that have points costs) with 10 ships max per person (most don't use that many). It's more methodical. EDIT: The new Nebulous Carrier update (dev log) is looking FIRE! The way craft move and attack is leagues better than HW3 (dev log)!
"You're gonna burn very bright, my little star" coming from the same character who delivered the line "Kharak is burning" hit me in a way I didn't expect. And not a positive way.
37:00 >"Where would Karen S'Jett be if Kharak had not burned?" Presumably exploring the stars and making their toward Hiigara, like the plan was, just at a less breakneck pace since she was ALREADY IN THE SPACESHIP at that point
Y'know, I never thought about that, and does seem like another point in the "Did the writers in charge even play the first game?" along with the 'Worse than the Gaalsien' quote.
@@Thagyr HW3 is set, what, 150 years after the original? If they spent that time Enterprising it up and exploring their local space instead of making a Hail Mary for Hiigara, I'd give it even odds of Karan retiring (if she's even physically capable of doing so) from fleet command after about the normal lifespan of the Kushan, and someone realizing "hey wtf she's not aging" and keeping her in there. If they did make a beeline for Hiigara though, then I'd say they'd probably run into the Taidan by then and, bereft of the turmoil caused by the atmospheric ignition controversy, might have been able to wipe the Kushan people now, probably starting with the mothership Still a weird fucking question to ask tho
Sending the heroes onto a journey they are already on is one of the worst plot devices i have ever seen. That Homeworld 1 pulled it off successfully shows just how good its story writers have been, which make the disaster of Homeworld 3 just worse.
A sympathetic villain can work sometimes but seriously, some writers insist on making villains who have committed the worst crimes ever the ones worthy of redemption. And give them the dumbest reason ever for being evil.
Literally a meme already. "Yeah I killed babies. But I'm a gay trans black with autism and I was beaten as a child by a mother who was dying of multiple sclerosis" okay fine just take the money please just shut up.
When I heard "sands and sinners!" I said, 'Oh that's a neat phrase to invent!' and then they said it again and I nodded and then they said it a third time and I said, "okay, uh, please make a new phrase, please!"
'Sands' being a common curse word for them, even as they left Kharak, was a really neat touch. "We regret the loss of the sands-cursed galaxy!" in cataclysm sticks in my mind. This has very efficently torpedoed my admiration for that choice.
@@TheKatamariguythinking of that hello human resources meme but "go dance with the angels" is the handsome guy and "sands and sinners" is the ugly guy
This can work well. Funny necromancer man from DND; industrial revolution edition basically wants this. Unfortunately, this is homeworld 3. I don't understand how a product can be this fucking disconnected after it was done well three other times. Nothing is internally consistent, nothing makes sense!
@@invidatauro8922It's a weird trope in a lot of recent stories. The writers create these evil people then try to white wash it with the weakest "excuse" possible. It's such blatant insecurity and narcissism that you wonder how these people even function in society.
@@bernardoheusi6146 At least Thanos had flawed reasoning behind his madness. He wanted to take the concept of "survival of the fittest" to its most extreme implementation by forcing a new era of evolution. A villainess wishing billions would die because she was just lonely was so.........female......
Lin Joyce is known for New Tales from the Borderlands (2022), Tiny Tina's Wonderlands (2022) and Borderlands 3: Psycho Krieg and the Fantastic Fustercluck (2020). Meanwhile the writer for Homeworld 1 was writing the manual LOL
I remember playing borderlands 2 and thinking oh its not that bad, but i like the bad guys more. And then playing borderlands 3 made me realise why it was the case
The two biggest influences on this game: 1: Homer : oh wait I heard how this ends it turns out the secert code is the same nursery rhyme he told his daughter. (The Simpsons, Colonel Homer, 1992) 2. Pantene Conditioner commercials.
@@Razgriz_01aren't they part of that sweet baby inc and this is not already a compromised place I'm not lying they literally ruined games that they went after a Brazilian guy for literally just pointing out the fact that it's on your website.
@@mikecampos1193 Gearbox was already pushing the same sort of stuff SBI was known for, way before already. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people in SBI came from Gearbox.
@@mikecampos1193 Just calling the problem of infantile people reaching positions of narrative authority due to ideologically backed monetary incentive "sweet baby inc" (which is at this point defunct due to being a PR disaster) is BRUTALLY reductive. But yes, that is kind of what happened, in the ROUGHEST sense.
@@theminecraft4202 Mandy talking about Warhammer Fantasy is such great fun. Looking forward to his eventual next review of all the content we've had since the miserable launch.
There is probably a future in which Mandy just decides to never make a Warhammer 3 video and tries to wait it out... Until we finally bully him into reviewing it 16 years later or something.
Fun fact, in the Historical and Technical manuals (aka the nerd zone, aka the backstory) of Homeworld 1, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Homeworld 2 for almost 300 pages combined the word "Human" is used exactly ZERO number of times. In the the technical manual for HW3, which is 80 but could fit easily in 10 if the old formatting and font was used the word "Human" was used 3 times. Make of that what you will.
yep, the last two Homeworld games plus cataclysm were very clear about the fact that the Hiigarans and the rest of the various peoples in the Homeworld verse weren't human, something that the HW3 devs apparently didn't give a shit about lmao
I remember that in one of the last Homeworld reviews you identified that "the stakes are too high for personal drama" when talking about the fleet's radio, and for me that perfectly resumes the problems you had with the story of 3.
Homeworld always felt like a series that should focus more on civilizations and armies. Elements of stuff like castes, system of beliefs, and intercivilization politics.
A lot of fiction manages to make "personal drama getting in the way of stopping a world-ending threat" work. The problem here is that a "reluctant hero" seems less and less sympathetic the more control they have over the situation, and the more urgent the threat actually is. If the stakes are "the Chosen One is a kid that must learn magic to overthrow an evil dictator," you can have a whole arc where they try to reject their Heroic Destiny and run away WITHOUT making them seem unsympathetic. They're a literal child, they're burned out, why can't someone else defeat the dark lord, etc etc. Meanwhile every time Imogen Homeworld stops for an acapella session another billion people die, and it makes you wonder who the hell chose to allow her that kind of power and authority.
I'm genuinely convinced that the writers in this game have never actually played a Homeworld game before and just got the cliff notes version of the lore from the guy who wrote the manual. There are so many instances where they seem to forget or ignore stuff that happened in previous games, even when they were major plot points. For example, the Incarnate queen seems to act like she's the only person in the galaxy who's integrated herself into her ship, aside from Karan and Imogen. So I guess the Bentusi never existed? Or the fact that they say it's impossible for objects to hyperspace through solid matter, even though that's like half the plot of DoK. As for that out-of-place line about the Gaalsien, I imagine the meeting between the new and old writers went something like this: "Hey, who were the bad guys in the last Homeworld game?" "The Gaalsien, but-" "Perfect, thanks!" "-but they weren't exactly-" "That's all I needed, bye!"
And him giving an honest review of the game isn't going to help them down the road he doesn't want to hate the game but he isn't proud of what he sees in front of him.
@@mikecampos1193they knew he'd do this, it's the reason why he didn't get a review copy in the first place despite the glowing coverage he had for the Homeworld franchise.
Imogen's design makes me think the artist only ever saw hair in a dream. Even when shes not in the magic space room, she looks like she's underwater somehow.
I think that it's supposedly to be in fact immersed in some kind of liquid, the problem is that hairs are crazy and totally unrealistic like they are made of plastic and it's the same in the magic space room where it should be in the air
I saw someone defending the music in this game saying “at least it’s not something lame like adagio for the strings like the entirety of HW1” I never wanted to reach through the ward and bitch slap someone so bad
The choral version of Adagio for Strings (Agnus Dei) is synonymous with Homeworld to me. Perfect contrast to the professionalism of your officers trying to swallow their emotions during the impactful moments in the story while you float in the vacuum of space, soaking it all in.
Me as a lawyer for a war crime committer "Your honor, she is sorry for what he did- but she said it was an, "Oopsy daisy!" and only did it cause she was lonely. I rule for her case to be dismissed"
Honestly, they should have been the point where they left her to die alone, specifically as justice for the billions killed and enslaved by security blanket mega-hitler.
"I kind of wish I wrote a will before playing the fucking ga-" Just the suddenness of the line and deadpan delivery of it gave me a really good belly laugh.
I like how Mando perfectly encapsulates the "less is more" style dialogue that Homeworld 3 lacks. The line "She has strange visions of what appear to be Stinger Flynn's island" is a perfect encapsulation of the mental state of MandaloreGaming and the horrors he has endured by knowing enough about Garten of Banban to know who Stinger Flynn is. "The extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation" wishes it could express so much pain and loss.
31:30 "I Kinda wish I wrote a will before playing the f'in game" Freaking savage yet accurate reaction to homeworld 3. Don't worry I'm sure we'll find out that the ship AI is so bad because tether was spelt as teather.
The bearded guy always looks like his head is either unnaturally jutted forward like his neck has a 90 degree angle, or just isn't connected at all and floating in space
It looks like someone who only made over-exaggerated 3D cartoon animations was put in charge of this. Were these the people who worked on Borderlands before?
@@IntrusiveThot420 me when Hades 2 made Hermes asian (the bronze (or black) greeks are now both yellow and have narrow eyes) and Hestia not only old and ugly (she was so beatiful that she had to make a vow to stay a virgin just to rebuff suitors) but also gave her vitiligo because... reasons I guess? Still a good game with most characters being enjoyable both as characters and as designs, but you can clearly see how some peoples ideologies are outweighing their want to make good characters.
Yeah exactly why is she (and the narrative) treating her like the protagonist of enders game when shes both A) a full grown woman and B) already intimately familiar with everything happening in the universe.
@@feelingveryattackedrn5750 Yeah, but the audience might not know. So, someone has to ask questions they should already know the answers to over and over. It'd have been too hard to write a story that didn't need constantly explain itself.
@@stevenharper9108 It's almost like it's fine with the audience not knowing some things. Like not knowing every character's appearance in HW1 with all the mystique that brought.
@@stevenharper9108Maybe they should have built a new world and a new story if it's been so long that they have to explain everything to the audience that doesn't even remember HW1 or HW2? Or better yet how about not messing around with the old lore and style because they think they know better and "I can fix him!"
@@stevenharper9108 They should abolished the role of Intel in that regard and had some snot nosed lieutenant interact with her. The whole start was incredibly unseemly. Manjaw S'Jet sounded like she just got out of school and the mothership was launched, incomplete, from an underground base instead of being constructed in space for reasons I'm not stupid enough to understand. Why you should even have had to travel to find the giant slab of your ship's hull in some other star system compounds the idiocy of the entire endeavour.
Mandalore refered to Titan A.E and Dora the Explorer while explaining a history about galactic scale extermination by the billions,so the coherency focused on doubts and the serious drama of the series has truly shifted that much.
I always thought Karan's head was shaved because they had to surgically augment her to make her an unbound, but i guess it was just style because OC do not steal wants to have super long loreal hair
There's a bit more to it. Homeworld Cataclysm sort of gave us a glimpse to what the original Hiigaarans looked like, and it was clear they had a look that featured short, almost fully shaved hair. But yeah, I fully like the idea she was shaved to make way for her cybernetic implants. I also envisioned her being far more akin to a synthetic humanoid than an organic one. Again, a byproduct of sacrifice for the species.
I'm not calling them navigators, we already have that in Dune and 40k, ''The unbound'' sounds so much better so I will just keep calling them that lol.
Plus, "The unbound" makes them sound like an ascended being rather than "navigator" which makes them seem like a glorified GPS. Which is extra stupid because the plot is about a "navigator" thinking they are an ascended being and everyone else is lesser. Why the name change besides milking Dune popularity?
Eh, if I recall "the unbound" was a Bentusi term, which they used for people who "became" their ships through direct neural connections to them. It makes sense that the Hiigarans would have their own term, especially since obviously Karan was one of those even before the fleet encountered the Bentusi.
This really makes you appreciate how smart earlier homeworld games were with their scale. Motherships were absolutely colossal entities that were several times bigger than anything else you might've run into. The complete insignificance of personal drama made total sense from the vantage point of the player looking down at it. It kinda added to the grace and aloofness of the Bentusi that their ships were actually a bit smaller but way more powerful and capable. On the rare occasion you found anything was bigger than your mothership, it came with the sense of supernatural awe. But no, we have to have stuff on the screen, so just add random space debris that looks like it could hold several worlds inside it.
Honestly when you said the story was horrible for a moment I was terrified that they would've brought back the Beast from Homeworld Cataclysm and completely invalidate everything the Somtaaw did. Seeing just how bad the story actually ended up being though now I'm thinking them bringing back the Beast might've actually helped things funnily enough.
If they brought back the Beast, you could do some, like, cyclical prophecy thing, like the Reapers in mass effect Instead they went for YA novel + modern "sequel after a long time" trends, where they just take terms from the previous entries and sprinkle them into the writing randomly
@@Hegataro It would be a very basic ass story but I could've seen something working where going off all the prophecy shit the writers like they could've said Imogen was destined to fend off some "immense evil" and then coincidentally the Beast re-emerges and starts spreading like wildfire now that FTL has been streamlined thanks to the Progenitor cores. They could've even had a story beat like here were Karan left to fend the Beast off herself and later on Imogen ends up having to fight a Beast-infected mothership while Karan's half-insane now begging Imogen to kill her in-between the Beast speaking through her taunting Imogen.
@@theodorehodbor5080 It would be very "why the fuck does System Shock 2 bring back SHODAN", but it would be better than... whatever the fuck the game has
Bringing back the Beast at least wouldn't violate existing lore. The infection vector in Cataclysm was a single ship coming from outside the galaxy. Why wouldn't there be more attempts or vessels coming from the same direction or even an entirely different galaxy the Beast hit?
Ehhh... I could see the beast returning just for a single level just to show how Higaran technology evolved to counter it. It wouldn't contribute to the main story but may be a different enough level gameplay wise to warrant it.
“The lullaby is the key.” Wait a minute… (Pulls mask off the game cover) “Metroid: Other M?!” “Yes, and I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for you meddling Kushaan, and your mangy Kiith.”
Never expected to hear a Homeworld game be compared to Genesis Rising, not the other way around. Now I feel fear. Edit: Fourteen people wrote this plot, and they all need to be found. And talked to.
@@sean7221you have cropped porn as your icon brother... to follow the homeworld 3 trend of hamfisted bible references you gotta remove the log from your own eye before pointing out the splinter in your brother's eye :/
Priorities for making a Modern Computer Game: -graphics -multi-player -volumetric fog -marketing -marketing -marketing -marketing -marketing -marketing -marketing -nice looking UI -sound design -letting the level designer do one of their ideas -merch -core gameplay loops -game lore / narrative writing
No no, you're missing the #1 priority: making all of the money in the world. Just turning a profit isn't enough either, it has to be an obscene profit, or we'll just not bother and put the IP on ice for another couple of decades
most frustrating part of modern gaming. Games look straight out of a Hollywood movie but gameplay is still the same as the first game of doom, and story telling has somehow regressed.
this game has polluted my mind with another question if Karen is bald, presumably to make room for the neural implants necessary to link her to fleet command, and every other "unbound" we've seen is bald too, WHY DOES IMOGEN HAVE A FULL HEAD OF HAIR?
That was probably a design note for the next generation of fleet integration cybernetics. “Make sure navigators can keep their hair, all the baldness is super creepy”
The star-trekification of the higaarans hurts my soul This isn't a dig at star trek, its just that homeworld wasn't meant to be star trek... So many unique things with their own styles and storytelling getting slowly homogenized into whatever's cool. Its like new star trek becoming star warsy, its all just unique things being turned into other things for no good reason.
God I hate how much it’s right to. My (mom/grandma/mentor?) was the greatest navigator ever, and now I am over educated child with low to mild social awkwardness must now lead people into battle. It’s Enders game WITH LESS MATURITY.
while not writing the Chronicles of Narnia, CS Lewis wrote a very interesting book called the Screwtape Letters, the core concept of was a senior devil writing letters to his nephew about how best to do the whole tempting humans into sin thing. at one point, the subject of churches comes up, and Screwtape has opinions about the best kind of priest: consider Father "G", who believes his congregation verges on atheism, and so has watered down his sermons so much out of fear they won't be receptive otherwise that he's the one who shocks them with his unbelief now instead of the other way around. this is mildly funny because that was explicitly CS Lewis' idea with the Chronicles of Narnia: "kids are stupid, so I'll dumb down my favorite Jesus allegories enough to entertain them." it is also the root of the problem with YA writing in general. when you set out to dumb your story down enough so the audience cannot possibly miss the moral you're trying to provide, you may succeed, and you may fail, but succeed or fail *it's going to be a dumb story* you have to trust, on some level, that your audience is smart enough to get what you're going for. and accept it if they don't. this weird preemptive defensive cringing posture helps nothing!
This is a great example of how you need to have space magic from the start or no space magic ever. Either you write around the paracausal stuff, or it feels like an ass pull when it comes in.
Everything is gone. Homeworld is burning. Homeworld 3 is being consumed by a firestorm. The game's story has been destroyed. All mechanical functionality destroyed. Significant salt in low internet orbit
And Mandy hasn't even tried it's little brother, Homeworld: Vast Reaches (VR) on Quest Actually, scratch that. If you hate 3's mechanics, Vast Reaches might actually be the panacea. But it ain't the originals either.
I never played Homeworld really, tried it after watching Mandy’s video on the first one. It’s weird cos I know I’d have loved it as kid but as an adult I was just like, meh. Too many systems and I’m tired after work. Regardless. My point is I’m laughing my ass off IRl like at that. “Significant salt in low orbit.” Line. Like. I shed a tear when I heard that everything is gone segment in Mandy’s video. Such was the emotional power of that one scene. So I started off thinking this is a solid homage comment. Then you went and sent my sides into high orbit. I still await their return. Thanks for the belly laugh good sir.
The big passcode being the lullaby is like in a disney channel movie where the main character successfully guesses the bad guys password by typing in their kids name or secret weakness or whatever. Just very amature hour stuff
... Honestly, the passcode being a kid's name could be an amazing humanization moment for an antagonist if done right. I don't think I've ever seen that for a "villain" It's always a hero thing. "Aww, look how much your crispy beef jerky that would have been inconvenient to the plot loved you~ Now go back to shooting unnamed guards."
Sorry, i just remembered how a mediocre Vin Diesel movie had this same fucking premise where a kids toy dance that his dad used to do was the way to safety navigate a trap filled corridor to his secret project
I'll come to bat for this specific plot beat - it reads like a badly-executed Battlestar Galactica homage - specifically, where the final co-ordinates for earth are the riff from "all along the watchtower", which Starbuck remembered her dad singing to her as a kid. Given that BSG was directly inspired by the original Homeworld, it makes sense to have that story beat looped back in, in a meta "all of this has happened before" kind of way.
I find it funny he brings up the Gaalsien as the worst kinds of zealots when there are members of the Gaalsien in your fleet based on the random name generator. Made even funnier when the event that gave them that reputation was over a century ago.
and in a holy war they were right about and remember the words that left the mouth of there leader in defeat begging tearfully to step back and avoid kharak burning
@@marley7868 To be fair, they were not *really* "right". They were correct about the consequences of hyperspace travel. But at the same time, both the HW1 manual and DoK made it pretty clear that staying on Kharak was not a viable long-term survival strategy either. So if their goal was survival, they weren't exactly picking a long-term option either.
Even funnier, DoK happened multiple centuries before HW1, HW2 happened century before HW3. Which means Isaac realistically shouldn't pick ancient kiith as zealots when kadesh or vaygr are way more recent
Two centuries ago. Homeworld 2 takes place 100 years after Homeworld 1, and 3 takes place 100 years after 2. This would be like a British person going "Those damn Americans, they're just as crazy as Napoleon was!" in response to the invasion of Iraq.
Look up the intro to Independence War, a space game from 1997. It's a 14 minute CG video that looks like something from its era, but... It's somehow... STILL BETTER THAN THIS.
I guess calling this "Sequel of Homeworld" or even "Homeworld 3" is just insult to everyone with brain. So I think that we should instead called this as "Homeworld (2024): My Immortal Fetish of Banban"
One thing I liked about the first game, is that Karen became more machine than human when she became fleet command; it was her sacrifice. Here, it doesn't seem like such a big deal with the way the process is depicted.
What's stupid about that (well, one thing) is that it could have been done well. Karen's was a sacrifice because it was experimental technology being used to fill a need they couldn't find another way to deal with. It took them years to be able to unwire her enough to exit the ship after all was said and done. They've had a LOT of time and recovered progenitor tech to study to make the process better. They could have used that angle to lean on the idea that with the improvements and advancements, less humanity has to be given up to pull it off, or even make a point that the less invasive connection system leads to less disconnection from humanity. If they had wanted Karen as their antagonist, they could easily have played off the Bentusi's mistakes and essentially established the following "The Progenitors did the 'Unbound' thing themselves, with much bigger ships and the resulting egomania/disconnect ended up leading to their destruction. The antagonist is that level of insane, Karen was going in that direction herself but somewhat clung to sanity, Imogen's less invasive connection (and regular disconnects because it's duration and scale that are the issues) means she has the clarity to see the problem and do something about it." Full on apply the lesson that having it all on a single person isn't wise and will blow up someone's ego to inhuman insane proportions. (ala the Tiidani Emperor or Makan.) Roll with that and have Karen's self destruction be to deal with an otherwise unstoppable Progenitor megalith base for the antagonist, while removing the temptation to link herself up to something like the Sajuuk again. (also partially explaining why it wasn't used again.) With the artificial cores making the gate network not the end all be all of travel, less invasive linking tech and an understanding that the problem exists (and is serious) the galaxy can go forward into a new era.
This a thousand times. I was so confused here when they show her and she just looks like a fairly regular middle age woman vs. Homeworld 1’s cutscene art where she’s this weird like humanoid cocoon thing in the middle of a bunch of tubes and wires connecting to the ship because she literally is the ship.
@@Sorain1 Best part of that is, it can be worked into a metaphor for addiction, be it drugs, alcohol or anything else--and in turn as a passing of the torch from one protagonist of a previous age to another of the new age. i.e. the less we rely on our vices, the stronger we are as people. The previous antagonists, aside from the Beast, were all subject to this vice and now it has consumed the last player character, or something to that effect. What we got is... Very "sheltered kid learns about the world as she deals with an antagonist that just wants friends." There's nothing subtle about that, and Karan dies so that we can have that symbolic torch passing without the actual effort of saying profound with it.
19:55 "friends, it's been years since I played an RTS that was this inconsistent" Wow, that sounds bad- "And I'm including the launch version of WH3" OH WOW THAT'S BADDDD
The game had datamined scenes showing the original plot of the game. No surprise, it was way better before certain 'cooks' ruined it. If we can relate this to cooking, they were already making a golden roast chicken- before the management introduced new cooks and they said "oh you guys are making dessert?" and put a ton of chocolate and dumped a can surstromming on the chicken.
OK, here's an idea: What if the Incarnate Queen was a member of the Bentusi who had been cast out, and the Incarnate themselves are essentially a rogue branch of the Bentusi who have secretly been building their forces at the edge of the galaxy for centuries? We already know how powerful Bentusi technology is, enough that they could potentially threaten the Hiigaran empire without the need for stupid space magic (although the Bentusi ALSO have a deeper knowledge of hyperspace than anyone else, so weaponizing it doesn't seem out of the question). Instead of wanting to be friends with Imogen while also attacking her for no reason, the Incarnate Queen is bitter and hateful towards other unbound due to her being an outcast, and is furious that the Hiigarans are starting to train new navigators and potentially creating a new race of unbound, or something like that. It would also just be cool to see what Bentusi combat ships could look like (other than the super acolyte), instead of just rehashing the progenitor aesthetic. Their typical sleek, rounded ship designs would also contrast way better against the blocky shapes of the Hiigaran ships. I don't consider myself a good writer by any means, but I feel like I just wrote a better foundation for a story in 5 minutes in a youtube comment than what over a dozen people came up with after like 5 years.
Good idea, but I'd add something else: After the events of Homeworld 1 and especially Homeworld 2, the few survivors of Kith Gaalsien did something like a 180° in mentality and are now staunchly opposed to mithologizing precursor technology or raising Karen S'jet as the Sejuuk' Khar, insisting that the Kushan should forge their own path forward instead of relying on precursor tech and embracing hollow superstition, lest they repeat a situation like Deserts of Kharak, and slowly rebuilt their numbers by recruiting both like-minded people and "Sleepers" who had lost everything when Kharak burned, but are also looked at as outcasts by most other Kith who have embraced Karen's cult of personality. You can keep Imogen's desire to demistify precursor tech and the synthetic cores which make even more sense now, and when the anomaly happens and Karen goes missing, there's a new point of tension about having to send a Gaalsien of all people to look for her since Imogen is still the vest person for the job, and a reason why Imogen would be insecure and akward about working with the crew, since they treat and consider her and outsider. If you feel like it, you can even throw in Karen having a god complex and fucking stuff up even more because she's the Chosen One and knows what to do and can't possibly fail, ad Imogen having to either reach out to her or bring her down.
@@totallynotavoyeur6977 Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that any of the Gaalsien would've survived Kharak- even if they abandoned their religion I have a hard time believing they would've been allowed aboard the mothership or the cryo trays. I'm all for demystifying Karan and the hyperspace cores though, this game got way too deep into the whole 'space magic' crap. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if you want another side-villain then there's a really good one in the Homeworld mobile game of all things. The Kiithless Hiigarans, former members of the Taiidan who lived on Hiigara before the Kushan showed up. They refused to join the new Hiigaran empire and were essentially kicked off of their own planet, and are now seeking revenge against the Hiigarans. It's a really interesting point of conflict that the other games never really bring up, and there are probably plenty more races out there that were negatively affected by the Kushan showing up out of nowhere and taking over a galactic empire overnight. Not to mention how ironic it is that the Kushan basically exiled them the same way they were thousands of years ago. They probably wouldn't be strong enough to act as a major villain (and you could even make an argument for them becoming protagonists in a future game) but they'd be perfect for some one-off battles during the campaign.
And then a rogue Beast strain has mutated in a distant, unchecked patch of the galaxy, growing inside the crystals you had to process back in "Cataclysm".
I mean, I can see someone using something like that as one of those "secret only I and the one person I trust know" things used as a password... but the specifics of the set up are awful.
This kind of set-up can work, but only in very specific circumstances. For example there is a Warhammer 40K novel where an Alpha Legion operative uses a short passage from a childhood song that's presumably only known to him and another operative as a sleeper agent activation phrase because they were childhood friends born on an isolated, low-tech planet that was completely destroyed on the Inquisition's orders 200+ years ago. All data about their people was either never recorded, lost, purposefully erased or rendered confidential due to their supposed "dealings" with a Traitor Legion, and the odds of not only finding another survivor or their descendant over 2 centuries later, but also having them sing a specific childhood rhyme at an honest-to-Warp Space Marine are so low, the phrase can be considered unique enough to safely use as a secret code. Again: very specific setup, the phrase was set up relatively close in time to the book's actual events, there was also a chance it wouldn't work or it could never be used and the plan accounted for these outcomes.
Nobody: Homeworld Writers: Let's make a deeply personal character drama... Fans: O...okay? Kind of a big departure thematically from previous entries, but if you think that's best... Homeworld Writers: ...and we'll give it the same energy as a $5 book from Walmart. Everybody: But why?
@@АндрейНеугодников-м6еthey have destroyed almost everything but they're going further back every year. Next they'll start defiling MS-DOS era game franchises. They won't stop until every book, game, movie and tv series has been reimagined for the modern audiences. They are at war with us.
"Homeworld 3's story is like seeing a wooly mammoth in your yard while also realizing it has leprosy. It's the worst I've seen in a mainstream game in a long time." And that is a very, very low bar.
AAAAND IT’S GONE. Gearbox screwed the pooch so badly that they killed the game only 6 months into its life, in a desperate attempt to scam everyone who was optimistic enough to give the season pass a chance in spite of all common reason telling them not to. Thank you Valve for stepping in to slap the stupid out of Randy Bitchford and force him to offer refunds to everyone who got the season pass. Gearbox is 0-2 this year, first this, then the DISASTROUS Risk of Rain expansion, they’re probably trying to pull a Colonial Marines again where they’re siphoning funding from these games development to dump into Borderlands 4. Did I say 0-2? I meant 0-3, because the Borderlands movie also came out this year. Gearbox is a ghost of its former self WHICH IS SAYING SOMETHING. 29:19 data miners have found remnants of old cutscenes in the files, and it goes to show that this latest rewrite took place incredibly late into development. It’s a shame, the old stuff looks way more in-line with what Homeworld is supposed to be. I misspoke: not data miners, it was people just digging around the game’s files. And don’t get me wrong, when I say “looks,” I mean purely visually. It could have been the same terrible story told using HW style black and white illustrations, but it might not have been Stinger Flynn’s Island bad, or giantess SFM fetish film bad. We’re just gonna have to wait for some disgruntled dev to speak out on what went wrong with this game, but I am more than willing to blame everything that went wrong on Gearbox.
I dont think this is accurate. As far as I know the "datamining" has only presented concept stills which show a pretty accurate concept art of the cutscenes we ended up with. A lot usually change from concept to final. One thing is for sure though, the concept featured less close-ups on ugly women clinching their eyebrows.
Largely, I think, because Homeworld 1 was tuned to be a story that needed to be part of a game where you controlled the destiny of an entire PEOPLE as they fled certain destruction for their true homeworld. Not having faces aside from Karan (who even then you only see from either behind or far away) works in getting you to detach from the characters and really focusing on the grand scale gravitas, even in Cataclysm. Deserts of Kharak, despite doing away with this long-term, at least got around this by still focusing on that hero's journey/tragedy aspect and making the writing much more procedural and less personal despite the personal stakes of that game's S'Jet's journey into the Great Desert to find her brother. Homeworld 3... Makes a lot of the minor characters we see faceless, like the Kushan pilots, but all of the major characters not only have "arcs" so to speak but are actually presented as "people" rather than protocol-driven military types like the last games. Which might ground the overall universe in some sense of place, but that's never been what Homeworld needed. At all. It's like they want to get lore across in the story for the sake of having lore and easter eggs, like a 'real' mainstream science fiction work.
They straight out murdered Karan Sjet with this atrocity. Remember toppling an empire and killing a mad emperor with her? Remember taming a progenitor demi-god and stopping genocidal, marauding hordes with her as Fleet Command? Now she's just a frail old grandma, unwilling to slap a petulant wannabe hyperspace queen because she fears for the 3 Hyperspace Cores. The Cores that literarily turn her into an immortal demi-god...
@@20storiesunder I'll die on the hill that 2 was fine. the story wasn't as good as HW1, but it has the atmosphere and narrative to match. it also expanded the mysticism of the world of the game by exploring the history of the world and other factions.
At least in KOTOR 2 it starts with Kreia looking like she's at the point where she's done, but then the player realizes over time that... ...She's only getting started. Imagine that kind of story arc with our first protagonist in the series we haven't heard in 25 years (in terms of a wholly new game) with a plot twist like that. Staying in the game long enough to become the villain (and decide if that's how she wants to be remembered).
Era One is going to end up being Homeworld 3 I think. An attempt to take Homeworld and move forward with it. But this is years away from done, so I will bide my time as usual. We waited 20 years, we can wait longer.
You know what's funny? The lullaby was a better plot point in Darkwing Duck. Dr. Waddlemeyer's invention could only be activated by a sequence of key presses which were thought lost when Taurus Bulba killed him. It turned out that Waddlemeyer sang his grandaughter Gosalyn a lullaby with the sequence in the lyrics for safekeeping. It wasn't until Darkwing made the connection from seeing the Ramrod's keyboard.
I was going to say like, obviously this is egregiously bad writing and not in a fun camp way, but also ive 1000% seen this before in like 5 other rpgs ive played. Substitute song for (insert other special childhood memory the protag carries with them) like a poem or just a fable and its even more common. I would've expected them to come up with something at least a bit more unique. Also even if theyre gonna do the played out thing at least put Chekov's gun somewhere that most people hardly notice it, rather than being like "have I told you about my GUN yet?" every 5 min.
@@feelingveryattackedrn5750 "Hello there good sir, before we continue with the main story, have you seen my GUN????? I hang it up on my MANTLEPIECE, I use it in case of a BEAR attack or if a BEAR broke into my HOME. That will never happen though, I will bring up my GUN in discussions though every 10 minutes and talk about BEARS and my HOME."
Why is it that in a game from 1998 you could make a wall of ion frigates with a group of support frigates programmed to follow them and automatically heal any that get damaged, while now you tell a ship to attack something and it does a 720 flip while shooting off into space.
Education. The nerds of yesteryear were proper nerds with passion and idealism. The current batch are programmed corporate drones that are rented out to churn. Any actual game dev is working on indies, far away from corpos and HR harpies.
Because the 90s devs were all nerdy white guys hired for their talent and the 2020s devs are purple haired communists hired for their skin color and mental illnesses.
Using Unreal Engine for a space RTS will do that. Especially if the coders don't know what they are doing. Not everything needs to be UE or Unity. The remastered engine was a lot better.
The ship being vertical in the first game was a very elegant visual reminder that the game used all three dimensions and provided a clear sense of identity to the series. The flying wedge could be a call back to the flying resupply ships in Deserts of Kharak or just another flying wedge.
I thought it was kind of a neat distinction between the old Mothership and the new one but then later it turns out both are basically the same ship design and both have to change orientation for certain things during the campaign.
To be fair, nothing stopped you from picking up "Taiidan" at the beginning of campaign in HW1 and getting stuck with horizontal toaster for the duration of it
![[UNCUT] ขยี้ "อลิส" ปม "คลิปลับแตงโม" เปิดชื่อคนพยายามแฮก "มือถือแตงโม" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์I 10ก.พ.68](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_RPLEIi5Sz8/mqdefault.jpg)
Homeworld on GOG - gog.la/BananaShipQuest
EDIT: Since the 1.3 patch they've added in a lot more artifacts for War Games along with new challenges and the DLC fleets, more skirmish maps and overhauls to it including proper tech trees and different AI behaviors, new damage and directional armor rebalancing to make the fights last longer, better and less buggy ship AI and the ability to linger in some campaign missions you couldn't before.
Witch Hunt never really left...
hallo mandalore, have you ever heard about a game called sanitarium? i saw it some days ago and thought you might like it
I think the cats in your walls had something to do with it...
Salt it just in case. Might break the curse somehow.
As the profecy foretold, the Sonichu medallion strikes again, but we never listen....
"My project director told me I need to put a human face on things"
Lol, a cry for help right there in the manual.
A have a small mouth and I will scream subtly
@@Spacefriend594 I have a mouth but you can't hear me so I will write it down so you can read it
Might as well read "the devil himself forced my hand"
wash my hands clean moment
I honestly don't get why people are reading that much into it. It's a common phrase that I can expect in a sci-fi that is either making fun of management or has dystopic themes. Either way, there is nothing special about it.
"The music is disapointing compared to previous game"
"Fair enough"
"It's also the best part of the game"
"Uh oh"
i don't get it?
@@whiteeye9584 It's a roundabout way of saying that this game is worse than previous entries in absolutely every aspect.
i assume that since theres so much voice acting the composer was told to be subtler or the resulting mix would be too mcuh
@@thenextguy32 Which is weird since they got it right in Deserts of Kharak, which had the same in-game radio chatter with bombastic music.
@@Razgriz_01 It pretty much fits in the timeline of all the recent failed games. I think something happened in the development somewhere that changed the direction of the game.
Animating somewhat photorealistic humans with disney pixar animation principals really makes every cutscene look like a fake east asian mobile game ad.
yeah the main character's face looks so wieird or is it just me ? Isaac looks much less uncanny .
it looks like AI to me lmao.
The fact that your MC looks like she picked up the call doesn't help either xD
@@Kamfrenchie I think in part it is because her face is, and this might come across as rude, but...androgynous. She has a pretty pronounced brow ridge and...her jaw....maybe that was the point: she being like, a representation of all of humanity, but you could stick her face on a male body and I would be none the wiser. It really just adds to the uncanny feel in some scenes.
It's not A.I, the Character expresions are key-animated by hand, it is not made using mo cap, that's why the expresions look uncanny and exagerated.
Mandalore trying his best to talk about what he likes in this game despite the rest is funnily a great example of "professionals under stress" voice acting
He cracked like three times during the entire video.
Not even the droods break him this bad.
@@StyryderX At least the droods were batshit insane from the start. THis is Homeworld we're talking about.
@@StyryderX I think I've watched almost every video that MandaloreGaming has ever made and I don't recall him breaking as bad as he did at the end of the story discussion
Good one
Man
"My Project Director told me I had to "put a human face on things" so here I am"
It took 14 ppl to put together a story for this thing. And only 1 phrase from 1 true writer to burn it.
The story is of such low quality I would have expected one politically-motivated writer. Too many cooks in the kitchen, all with bad motives. They put the REAL writer on MANUAL duty. Jeez.
I love how underhanded this sounds when you read it.
@@tatuira93 And the sad thing is, it is only that way if you have context. Sadly, we DO.
Is there any truth to these folks being sweet baby consultants? I generally think the heat around them is mostly from people blaming their virginity on them but if Gearbox/BBI was farming the story out to this many writers, something straight up went wrong in production and they all need a stern talking to.
@@KingThrillgoreit probably didn't help at all, more hands is always worse. But it didn't suddenly cause the story to be garbage. It was always garbage. Tge industry really needs to collapse again.
"My project director told me I need to put a human face on things" has the same feel as the POW blinking out "torture" in a TV interview.
Described it perfextlt
Or the devs of Black & White 2 refusing the insane demand of Peter Molyneux to animate realistic genitalia on the Creature Avatars.
The Halo TV show in a nutshell
@@ALEXANDER1318 lmao, really? I did not know that. I ‘member being quite disappointed with Black&White 2 as it just felt rather forced city builder as opposed to do what you want god sandbox.
I was never sure if it was Peter being Peter or publishers pushing then trends on a novel but popular IP. Sounds like it was Peter after reading that.
@@ALEXANDER1318 Only for the Red Dead Redemption 2 to shamelessly steal the idea years later
{sarcasm}
the trademark mandalore insanity laugh is like seeing your dad cry. it doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it means things are BAD
so true when he laughs, it means things are that! bad
I felt that.
At least he's not being haunted by a witch. This time.
The ring 2 laugh gets me every time
SSeth will leak out.
For anyone who was confused like me what the bit at the beginning was about:
That is the old emblem for Kith Somtaaw, when they were a minor clan no one respected. It was updated to be a much sicker design at the end of Homeworld: Cataclysm when they defeated the beast and became renowned as the Beast Slayers.
The fact that they got the wrong emblem is a sign of the poor care to come.
Probably you are right, but my interpretation was that just seeing Somthaaw's emblem triggered Beast-related PTSD
The crazy part is that the Beast Slayer version of the emblem is in the game, it's just not used for the pre-made Somtaaw faction in the final game, doubly weird since IIRC they did use it for the Somtaaw allies in the demo's tutorial.
Though tbh, I thought the intro was just Mandy wilding over Somtaaw being in the game and Cataclysm being canon again.
@@splitjawjanitor5369 i can already picture the scene:
> the devs actually doing their due diligence and making the right emblem
> in comes clown art lead or project lead who doesn't understand wtf they're doing and telling them to change the emblem
I think it's more about the game developers actually respecting Cataclysm for once and putting a solid reference of it in the game
@@loudybullet5262 But they didn't. It was the pre-cataclysm Emblem.
“Security blanket Mega-Hitler” might be my new favorite insult.
A.K.A Chuck Mcgill
Steven Universe ahh story.
both this comment and the two replies are golden
Trump also works
Yeah I was thinking of this game as I used to like the original Homeworld games, but after watching the story line, nah...
Watching the Emperor in Homeworld 1 die in his Flagship was satisfying, and watching Makaan die yet still be a posthumous threat in the last mission of Homeworld 2 raised the stakes...
But what trash was this?
I genuinely miss when Karan S'jet was just a national hero because she was fleet command during HW1. She wasn't the Chosen One getting fought over by rival chosen ones.
Earned versus placed in the position because of nepotism. Not a very compelling story.
When in doubt, just deem HW2 and 3 as apocrypha so to support this.
tbh i've gotten pretty used to just disregarding sequels when they mess up the stuff I liked about the older entries in a series
Imogen was born "great", while Karan had greatness thrust upon her.
@@Noname-e9k7k Karan adapted and became great, or closer than Imogen
Bring me back to barely surviving space plague ship zombies as an out of their league mining fleet.
Source code was lost sadly, imagine a world where the remastered collection included cataclysm, that was the plan, also f*** blizzard for forcing them to change the name to convergence
It truly was the best one
Wait, didn't kiith somtaaw get an updated logo as part of the beast slayers?
Blizzard had nothing to do here.
It's a certain Randy who was too paranoid.
@@theCrazyXII sadly cataclysm was called non cannon I think, at least until it becomes cannon again because it is an easy instant success remaster
"Computer, increase size of Imogen to 1500%. Computer disable safety protocols. Computer engage program and send my will and testament."
Barclay at his worst *still* has better taste than this game.
It's especially funny when you consider that this is absolutely many peoples' fetish content. So just add it to the game. Why not?
@@Marcara081they missed a trick not having her eat or stamp on somebody then, maybe have the antagonists be anthropomorphic wolves, and whilst we're at it they put enough diversities amongst the Higarans that not feeding the ir audience is just wasted potential (for extra spice, make Imogen explicitly Jewish, the Kushan story was very old testament and the Sjets are the elite caste so it fits). It could at least have been a game that fed niche fetishes instead of a mediocre game with weak writing
@@thesenamesaretaken "If you're gonna pander, go all the way". Thinking I hadn't of before now, but honestly? Kinda based.
@@Marcara081 A fetish is an object. You're thinking of a deviation. And yes, the kind that makes men dream of being stepped on by Godzilla-sized women is probably the most pathetic I can think of.
It's genuinely incomprehensible to me that a Homeworld game that came out after Deserts of Kharak could have a story THAT BAD. Like, Homeworld 1 and Cataclysm are absolute slam-dunks with regards to not just their stories but how they TOLD their stories, then they stumbled with Homeworld 2, corrected with Deserts of Kharak, and then smashed themselves in the balls with a rake at the finish line here with 3. What the fuck.
The DIE kiss of death.
A couple of letters for you: D E I. You can google who and how, or get banned outright if you ask them directly on the forums.
@@araamahasla555Are you really claiming that Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion is somehow responsible for bad writing here? Get out of here and go push your stupid agenda somewhere else.
@@lorecow88care to elaborate?
@@nerdyvids1 tl;dr scaremongering lmao
The best part of "worse than the Gaalsien" for me was that the commander of my most powerful ship at the time... was a Gaalsien. And then we sent Intel straight to HR for sensitivity training
those ship-levitating, prophecy-spewing, mask-wearing, red-shipped, kharak-thumping, sand-loving, sajuuk-sucking....... GAALSIENS
CALLS FOR INTEL TO STEP DOWN AFTER CONTROVERSIAL ANTI-GAALSIEN STATEMENTS.
Damn we have to push you up
If he's going to compare them to fanatics, wouldn't it make more sense to reference the Kadeshi or the Vagyr?
@@pbradics3670 No. They did not. Even the timelines were completely screwed up in DoK despite manual for HW1 being freely available online.
My first thought upon trying this game out on launch was:
“Oh man this is going to break Mandos heart.”
Same
Especially since he loves Cataclysm so much and wants more underdog story and not just focused on S'jet, even when I purposely not to spoil myself before I buy or see him review it, the moment I learned it is another S'jet story, I already thought this would annoy him.
What's even more impressive is my expectation was already low, and it somehow get WAY LOWER than I anticipated
It did break mine, thats for sure.
How does it feel to live long enough to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames?
@@CatBxtchNami Feels great.
It was like watching "old yeller". He loved the series so much, dispite its flaws... having it end like this. It just hurts. I wish I could have shielded him from the pain.
If you want your villain to be sympathetic, maybe DON'T have them explicitly kill billions of innocents at the very start over what essentially were hurt feelings and egomania?
That still doesn't preclude them from being sympathetic.
The issue is that it's framed as if they *shouldn't* be subject to shocking ball torture until the heat death of the universe as punishment.
Yes but you see, you believe in justice which clouds your eyes to the possibility that you can empathize with the villain and see that by virtue of feeling that way, it's legitimate because you can't disprove feelings, right?
It honestly like tweens wrote this: 'But what if the villainess really felt that she had to do it? How can you blame her when if you felt that strongly, you would do it too?' They unironically do not understand justice. Like, they made content that just can't grasp something with a higher ethical obligation than personal validation.
B-b-b-b-b-but the villain is female! You HAVE to pity her!
The lead narrative writer is a bad person and know it but she want redemption (for free) so she wrote this cringe absurdity. How far May I be from reality?
@@Stef3m It's because the character was a self-insert. That's why they've victimized the villain.
Imogen’s hair is so bizarrely animated what on earth.
yeah it just looks weird
AAAA hair animation
her face is worse , like a statue of a pharaoh and whats with her figure did she have four dozen kids?
@@86pp73AAAA is a much better description than “quadruple A” because it looks like a scream of terror.
Her outfit is like so bland too
“The game basically comes with its own built-in group therapy mode.”
Oh. Oh that’s good.
homeworld 3: brought to you by our sponsor, betterhelp
@@selectionn oof.
...too bad the game isn't.
"The subject did not survive interrogation" was a memorable line for me, too. It encapsulates the subtle emotion and humanity behind the professionalism of the Hiigaran fleet command.
It's a very realistic way of bureaucratically papering over the nastier sides of war. "The interrogators were so angry they tortured the captive to death" gets turned into "the captive did not survive interrogation."
I always loved that line just by how professionally it's done saying they murdered the prisoner
I first read it as Haligan fleet command, which just make sence.
Yeah. I loved it because it showed how both sides could be very cold and hateful. But you (as commander) needed to focus on what was important for a PEOPLE.
@@pitchblackgrueI like how it subtly shifts blame: "We didn't kill the captive. It was his fault for dying during the interrogation!"
"Your parents were nobodies, but your Grandmother was the -Emp- leader of the Kiith S'iet."
S'jet still gets to have the prestige it gained a hundred years prior yet Somtaaw's relegated back to their Miner emblem despite saving the entire galaxy.
@@StrikeWarlock Is homeworld cataclysm even canon?
Did Somtaaw really save the galaxy if they put it in danger to begin with? If someone leaves a carriage unattended and then stops it from going into traffic at the last second, should that person really be applauded for saving the baby?
@@hypothalapotamus5293 Last time I heard it was "dubiously canon". And yes, they absolutely do deserve the recognition. The cargo could have ended with the pirats or worse having nobody to stand up to the beast by the time things turn bad.
@@sipofsunscorchedsarsaparil6052 I always thought of it as a fever dream. Cataclysm goes pretty Star Wars Legends+Babylon5+event horizon in a way that other homeworld titles don't.
Looking back, you are right that the Turanic raiders would have found it, but a cutscene also implies that Somtaaw management wanted the ROI from the beacon for themselves and possibly took a lot of unnecessary risks that the main voice actor disagreed with. Was it good practice to research the capsul aboard the Kuun-Lan? Probably not.
@@hypothalapotamus5293 The leadership was not much better than the other parties that could've gotten hold of it, but at least the captain of the ship was ready to save everything.
I 100% believe that in an earlier draft, Karan S'jet was the bad guy of this game, and then they got cold feet.
in fairness to them, with this level of writing on display, that would not have ended up better
That's the vibe I got from the "caught between an ignorant giant and a mad god" line.
I think a company with the initials of SB or an equivalent wrote/managed this and thinking anything else is a waste of time.
@@xalrath It's still possible to fuck up this kind of twist depending on how invested the fans are with the turncoat character.
@StyryderX yeah if you think the yelling about them killing homeworld is bad now, imagine if you'd actually personally killed Karan S'Jet for suddenly turning evil for some reason in this game
The only thing I knew about homeworld 3 was my friend who’s a really big homeworld fan randomly pinging me one day and asked “hey you wanna play Nebulous Fleet Command?” When I asked why he wasn’t playing HW3 he responded with “playing homeworld 3 made me think, huh I should play Nebulous”
I wish I liked Nebulous more, because I love it in concept.
Fun fact, the developers of Nebulous Fleet Command are huge fans of Homeworld
just so people don't get the wrong impression, because I love Nebulous Fleet Command myself too but it plays NOTHING like Homeworld except for being ships in space, especially the current game setup until the Conquest mode gets added, but even then, how ships function and battle it out is more like a Cold War era submarine game but in space that uses radar instead of sonar. MP is based around 3,000 point system (where the fleet you build is a compromise based on weapons & systems that have points costs) with 10 ships max per person (most don't use that many). It's more methodical. EDIT: The new Nebulous Carrier update (dev log) is looking FIRE! The way craft move and attack is leagues better than HW3 (dev log)!
can recommend its the nerdiest shit.
Haha, i thought "Nebulous is gonna get popular now" while watching this video 😄 Too bad about HW 3 thou... Gonna go fire up Nebulous now too.
"You're gonna burn very bright, my little star" coming from the same character who delivered the line "Kharak is burning" hit me in a way I didn't expect. And not a positive way.
There was potential there that what makes me sad
Like a sack of wet mice
Like it’d be in bad taste to diss a burn victim or someone who lost their house to a fire and say “burn!”
@@seamussmyth1928 ...or surprise colonoscopy
with a sack of wet mice
You're gonna burn, alright.
37:00
>"Where would Karen S'Jett be if Kharak had not burned?"
Presumably exploring the stars and making their toward Hiigara, like the plan was, just at a less breakneck pace since she was ALREADY IN THE SPACESHIP at that point
Y'know, I never thought about that, and does seem like another point in the "Did the writers in charge even play the first game?" along with the 'Worse than the Gaalsien' quote.
@@Thagyr HW3 is set, what, 150 years after the original?
If they spent that time Enterprising it up and exploring their local space instead of making a Hail Mary for Hiigara, I'd give it even odds of Karan retiring (if she's even physically capable of doing so) from fleet command after about the normal lifespan of the Kushan, and someone realizing "hey wtf she's not aging" and keeping her in there.
If they did make a beeline for Hiigara though, then I'd say they'd probably run into the Taidan by then and, bereft of the turmoil caused by the atmospheric ignition controversy, might have been able to wipe the Kushan people now, probably starting with the mothership
Still a weird fucking question to ask tho
Who has a better story than Karen the Bald?
Sending the heroes onto a journey they are already on is one of the worst plot devices i have ever seen. That Homeworld 1 pulled it off successfully shows just how good its story writers have been, which make the disaster of Homeworld 3 just worse.
A sympathetic villain can work sometimes but seriously, some writers insist on making villains who have committed the worst crimes ever the ones worthy of redemption. And give them the dumbest reason ever for being evil.
maybe they are projecting their own values onto said villain?
"you see, I to was sad once"
Coming up next, a redemption arc for Riesstiu IV The Second!
Literally a meme already. "Yeah I killed babies. But I'm a gay trans black with autism and I was beaten as a child by a mother who was dying of multiple sclerosis" okay fine just take the money please just shut up.
_My Struggle_ by Baron Vladimir Harkonnen
Maybe the real Homeworld 3 was the giantess stuff we experienced along the way.
I haven't watched the video yet. What the fuck is this about? what? It can't be
@@victoriacecilia3926 Genesis Rising permeates us all, friend.
@@victoriacecilia3926 Giant woman
like
Reaaaly big woman
Never thought you see that in Homeworld do you, me neither, MY EYES
💀 I unfortunately know the channel Mandalore showed
@@victoriacecilia3926 please respond to this when you're done watching. come join the big space feet gang that we all didn't want to join :)
When I heard "sands and sinners!" I said, 'Oh that's a neat phrase to invent!' and then they said it again and I nodded and then they said it a third time and I said, "okay, uh, please make a new phrase, please!"
they only had budget for 1 phrase, cause they needed to ensure investors get theyr returns
'Sands' being a common curse word for them, even as they left Kharak, was a really neat touch. "We regret the loss of the sands-cursed galaxy!" in cataclysm sticks in my mind. This has very efficently torpedoed my admiration for that choice.
Does make me a little nostalgic for Ace Combat 6. Go dance with the angels!
@@TheKatamariguythinking of that hello human resources meme but "go dance with the angels" is the handsome guy and "sands and sinners" is the ugly guy
"Hyoargh! I think that enemy got, *the point!"*
Imagine having a villain whose sole motivation is "billions must die". Not even as a means to end, just her objective.
This can work well. Funny necromancer man from DND; industrial revolution edition basically wants this. Unfortunately, this is homeworld 3. I don't understand how a product can be this fucking disconnected after it was done well three other times. Nothing is internally consistent, nothing makes sense!
The motivation is not teh issue. It's that they try to make me feel bad for her with a "She's just lonely" explanation.
@@invidatauro8922It's a weird trope in a lot of recent stories. The writers create these evil people then try to white wash it with the weakest "excuse" possible. It's such blatant insecurity and narcissism that you wonder how these people even function in society.
Thanos but boring?
@@bernardoheusi6146 At least Thanos had flawed reasoning behind his madness. He wanted to take the concept of "survival of the fittest" to its most extreme implementation by forcing a new era of evolution. A villainess wishing billions would die because she was just lonely was so.........female......
A fantastic illustration of a lesson Armored Core 6 should have taught everyone: good characters don't need faces.
Armored Core as a franchise proves you can have decent-to-good writing without showing anyone's face even once.
aka its okay to identify as your online alias irl. Very based and Zoompilled.
Somewhat random trivia:
There actually were faces created for characters in the first AC,even 9-ball.
@@retroicdescent I’d rather not see faces than these “peoples” faces in this hack job of a game
Honestly it's a lesson Homeworld as a series should've taught people
My favorite part was when Jane Homeworld said "It's homing time" and grew into a massive giantess to stare deeply into the other giantess' eyes.
keep going...
She finally understood that the power was in her all along. The character arc is 'believe in yourself'. It's never been done before.
And then they had giant sesbian lex
@@Laneous14 halt infidel, do not entertain these jests any longer!
My favorite part is where Lady Dimitrescu said 'This Village has Evil Residents.'
Lin Joyce is known for New Tales from the Borderlands (2022), Tiny Tina's Wonderlands (2022) and Borderlands 3: Psycho Krieg and the Fantastic Fustercluck (2020).
Meanwhile the writer for Homeworld 1 was writing the manual LOL
Worderlands's story wasn't that bad. Torgue finally got to blow up the ocean
New Tales from the Borderlands? That's explains literally everything lol
The day Borderlands dies out, will be a glorious day indeed.
I remember playing borderlands 2 and thinking oh its not that bad, but i like the bad guys more. And then playing borderlands 3 made me realise why it was the case
the Krieg DLC was a 10/10 how did they go so wrong
The two biggest influences on this game:
1: Homer : oh wait I heard how this ends it turns out the secert code is the same nursery rhyme he told his daughter. (The Simpsons, Colonel Homer, 1992)
2. Pantene Conditioner commercials.
* Notes similarities between Ava and Imogen. Finds out that Borderlands 3 and Homeworld 3 shared writers * Yep, that checks out
Having them bring in a fucking Borderlands 3 writer was a massive RED FLAG.
@@Razgriz_01aren't they part of that sweet baby inc and this is not already a compromised place I'm not lying they literally ruined games that they went after a Brazilian guy for literally just pointing out the fact that it's on your website.
@@mikecampos1193 Gearbox was already pushing the same sort of stuff SBI was known for, way before already.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people in SBI came from Gearbox.
@@mikecampos1193 Just calling the problem of infantile people reaching positions of narrative authority due to ideologically backed monetary incentive "sweet baby inc" (which is at this point defunct due to being a PR disaster) is BRUTALLY reductive. But yes, that is kind of what happened, in the ROUGHEST sense.
RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
34:10 "This is either Gran Gran or banned from a school zone."
I legitimately choked on my coffee hearing this.
I LIKE YO CUT G
@@majormajorasic *SLAP*
Garten of Gran Gran
Oh wow, the story got Mandalore to put his “hysterical breakdown laugh” from places like the BanBan or Druids streams in an actual video.
Me 45 minutes ago: Oh boy! Mandalore's reviewing Homeworld 3! I can't wait to see how awesome it is!
Me 45 minutes later: :(
tis tragic i agree
Me reading this comment: "Ok"
Me replying to this comment:
It's a galactic tragedy but not in the way we expected
Same hhhh
@@herenihoUncaught Error: Too Much Recursion
"I know it's gotten a lot better but it is not time yet"
STOP BLUE BALLING ME MANDALORE
can't wait for the 7 hour review of TW:WH3
@@theminecraft4202 Mandy talking about Warhammer Fantasy is such great fun. Looking forward to his eventual next review of all the content we've had since the miserable launch.
They even fulfilled his request, ironsides and landship
There is probably a future in which Mandy just decides to never make a Warhammer 3 video and tries to wait it out...
Until we finally bully him into reviewing it 16 years later or something.
@@theminecraft4202 Well, you can watch Whitelight's 7 hour long review of Death Stranding in the meantime.
Fun fact, in the Historical and Technical manuals (aka the nerd zone, aka the backstory) of Homeworld 1, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Homeworld 2 for almost 300 pages combined the word "Human" is used exactly ZERO number of times. In the the technical manual for HW3, which is 80 but could fit easily in 10 if the old formatting and font was used the word "Human" was used 3 times. Make of that what you will.
Earnestly, as much as I love the game, making the characters human in Deserts of Kharak was a mistake.
yep, the last two Homeworld games plus cataclysm were very clear about the fact that the Hiigarans and the rest of the various peoples in the Homeworld verse weren't human, something that the HW3 devs apparently didn't give a shit about lmao
@@woodwyrm Except Karan S'Jet was clearly human from the box art of HW2.
@@Sujad *Humanoid* perhaps, but definitely not human.
@@woodwyrm How so? Beyond being bald she looked fairly human to me.
I remember that in one of the last Homeworld reviews you identified that "the stakes are too high for personal drama" when talking about the fleet's radio, and for me that perfectly resumes the problems you had with the story of 3.
Homeworld always felt like a series that should focus more on civilizations and armies. Elements of stuff like castes, system of beliefs, and intercivilization politics.
@@sauceinmyface9302 "This is the Garden of Kadesh. For thirteen generations, we have protected it from the unclean..."
Ah, Hiigarans being Hiigarans.
A lot of fiction manages to make "personal drama getting in the way of stopping a world-ending threat" work.
The problem here is that a "reluctant hero" seems less and less sympathetic the more control they have over the situation, and the more urgent the threat actually is.
If the stakes are "the Chosen One is a kid that must learn magic to overthrow an evil dictator," you can have a whole arc where they try to reject their Heroic Destiny and run away WITHOUT making them seem unsympathetic. They're a literal child, they're burned out, why can't someone else defeat the dark lord, etc etc.
Meanwhile every time Imogen Homeworld stops for an acapella session another billion people die, and it makes you wonder who the hell chose to allow her that kind of power and authority.
I'm genuinely convinced that the writers in this game have never actually played a Homeworld game before and just got the cliff notes version of the lore from the guy who wrote the manual.
There are so many instances where they seem to forget or ignore stuff that happened in previous games, even when they were major plot points. For example, the Incarnate queen seems to act like she's the only person in the galaxy who's integrated herself into her ship, aside from Karan and Imogen. So I guess the Bentusi never existed? Or the fact that they say it's impossible for objects to hyperspace through solid matter, even though that's like half the plot of DoK.
As for that out-of-place line about the Gaalsien, I imagine the meeting between the new and old writers went something like this:
"Hey, who were the bad guys in the last Homeworld game?"
"The Gaalsien, but-"
"Perfect, thanks!"
"-but they weren't exactly-"
"That's all I needed, bye!"
Yea the game sounds like it got the Star Trek Discovery treatment, or as I like to call it, the Kurtzmann/JJ effect.
Ah, the Frank O'Connor effect.
@@mulattoman Underrated comment
Homeworld Cataclysm: Well well, look who came crawling back....
We wish, the fact that its not the Beastslayers emblem means that Gearbox doesn't think Cataclysm is canon.
@@StrikeWarlock Are we forever doomed to Cata erasure? Even though we had some of the most memorable moments in the franchise?
The studio says that cataclysm is cannon. If you ask them to this day that is their response.
@@StrikeWarlock The Beastslayers emblem is in the game...
I never left Cata, it's still the best game in the entire franchise.
The Incarnate queen looks like Donkey from Shrek when she made that goofy ass smirk when Imogen turned giant.
You know shit's fucked when Mandy whips out the Goosebumps theme.
And him giving an honest review of the game isn't going to help them down the road he doesn't want to hate the game but he isn't proud of what he sees in front of him.
@@mikecampos1193 Tbh, I have NO idea what they were thinking.
It's fucked up when it's out of halloween
@@mikecampos1193they knew he'd do this, it's the reason why he didn't get a review copy in the first place despite the glowing coverage he had for the Homeworld franchise.
@@DC-hw7fw They taked money from ESG founds and hired consulting company for writing more inclusive story. So we have this gold.
Imogen's design makes me think the artist only ever saw hair in a dream. Even when shes not in the magic space room, she looks like she's underwater somehow.
She looks like she’s wearing a cosplay wig.
I think that it's supposedly to be in fact immersed in some kind of liquid, the problem is that hairs are crazy and totally unrealistic like they are made of plastic and it's the same in the magic space room where it should be in the air
@@Stef3m My first thought is she's in oxidated hexane or something
To be honest i think it looks kinda cool. The art direction isn't always terrible I think it just is lacking in some areas
Unbound are usually suspended in liquid, they just didn't quite convey it well.
I saw someone defending the music in this game saying “at least it’s not something lame like adagio for the strings like the entirety of HW1” I never wanted to reach through the ward and bitch slap someone so bad
the music is good in 3 but its always WAY to subtle and understated for a homeworld game
People like that make me wish this was real
th-cam.com/video/XHQYp8zN40g/w-d-xo.html
@@exilestudios9546 all of the melody is gone, its just rhythm now
The choral version of Adagio for Strings (Agnus Dei) is synonymous with Homeworld to me. Perfect contrast to the professionalism of your officers trying to swallow their emotions during the impactful moments in the story while you float in the vacuum of space, soaking it all in.
HW1's music was quite dire.
"She was lonely" i am LAUGHING ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW
Me as a lawyer for a war crime committer
"Your honor, she is sorry for what he did- but she said it was an, "Oopsy daisy!" and only did it cause she was lonely. I rule for her case to be dismissed"
Honestly, they should have been the point where they left her to die alone, specifically as justice for the billions killed and enslaved by security blanket mega-hitler.
Why are they always do this?
The borderlands 3 writing REAAAALLLLY SHOWS
The "Sands and Sinners" thing just reminds me of that scene in The Simpsons where Milhouse has to say "Jimminy Jillickers" for 7 hours
"I didn't do it"
The first time I heard it I was instantly transported to Atomic Heart's "CRISPY CRITTERS"
Ay caramba!
"I kind of wish I wrote a will before playing the fucking ga-"
Just the suddenness of the line and deadpan delivery of it gave me a really good belly laugh.
I like how Mando perfectly encapsulates the "less is more" style dialogue that Homeworld 3 lacks. The line "She has strange visions of what appear to be Stinger Flynn's island" is a perfect encapsulation of the mental state of MandaloreGaming and the horrors he has endured by knowing enough about Garten of Banban to know who Stinger Flynn is. "The extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation" wishes it could express so much pain and loss.
31:30 "I Kinda wish I wrote a will before playing the f'in game"
Freaking savage yet accurate reaction to homeworld 3. Don't worry I'm sure we'll find out that the ship AI is so bad because tether was spelt as teather.
That's barely even a joke, the infamous Aliens: Colonial Marines had subpar enemy AI for actual years because of a typo in the code.
@@RoyalFusilier That's the referenced thing in above comment, yes
God not even touching on the gameplay issues the cutscenes fucking throw me, they're well beyond the uncanny valley and into the ungodly abyss.
The bearded guy always looks like his head is either unnaturally jutted forward like his neck has a 90 degree angle, or just isn't connected at all and floating in space
All modern western games have ugly characters on purpose. Strange isn't it?
@@BlackMetalVengeanceme when hades and hades 2 exist (edit: i am mocking you)
It looks like someone who only made over-exaggerated 3D cartoon animations was put in charge of this. Were these the people who worked on Borderlands before?
@@IntrusiveThot420 me when Hades 2 made Hermes asian (the bronze (or black) greeks are now both yellow and have narrow eyes) and Hestia not only old and ugly (she was so beatiful that she had to make a vow to stay a virgin just to rebuff suitors) but also gave her vitiligo because... reasons I guess? Still a good game with most characters being enjoyable both as characters and as designs, but you can clearly see how some peoples ideologies are outweighing their want to make good characters.
The writer's literal call for help through the manual is both sad and hilarious at the same time
This truly is the Garten of Kadesh
My favorite stream.
@@Maragas11 What stream?
there is no escape from the garten
The Garten has fallen
@@dodgyd6778Millions must get Ban Banned.
HW3 be like: Billions died, my parents are the most important of our people ever, my grandma took care of my problems but.. i'm just a girl...
Yeah exactly why is she (and the narrative) treating her like the protagonist of enders game when shes both A) a full grown woman and B) already intimately familiar with everything happening in the universe.
@@feelingveryattackedrn5750 Yeah, but the audience might not know. So, someone has to ask questions they should already know the answers to over and over. It'd have been too hard to write a story that didn't need constantly explain itself.
@@stevenharper9108 It's almost like it's fine with the audience not knowing some things. Like not knowing every character's appearance in HW1 with all the mystique that brought.
@@stevenharper9108Maybe they should have built a new world and a new story if it's been so long that they have to explain everything to the audience that doesn't even remember HW1 or HW2? Or better yet how about not messing around with the old lore and style because they think they know better and "I can fix him!"
@@stevenharper9108 They should abolished the role of Intel in that regard and had some snot nosed lieutenant interact with her. The whole start was incredibly unseemly. Manjaw S'Jet sounded like she just got out of school and the mothership was launched, incomplete, from an underground base instead of being constructed in space for reasons I'm not stupid enough to understand. Why you should even have had to travel to find the giant slab of your ship's hull in some other star system compounds the idiocy of the entire endeavour.
Mandalore refered to Titan A.E and Dora the Explorer while explaining a history about galactic scale extermination by the billions,so the coherency focused on doubts and the serious drama of the series has truly shifted that much.
I always thought Karan's head was shaved because they had to surgically augment her to make her an unbound, but i guess it was just style because OC do not steal wants to have super long loreal hair
There's a bit more to it.
Homeworld Cataclysm sort of gave us a glimpse to what the original Hiigaarans looked like, and it was clear they had a look that featured short, almost fully shaved hair.
But yeah, I fully like the idea she was shaved to make way for her cybernetic implants. I also envisioned her being far more akin to a synthetic humanoid than an organic one. Again, a byproduct of sacrifice for the species.
Eh, honestly even in the early pre-release trailers Imogen had hair
Didn't have such a massive chin, though.
@@RazorsharpLT Does it matter that they had this bad idea from the start?
I'm not calling them navigators, we already have that in Dune and 40k, ''The unbound'' sounds so much better so I will just keep calling them that lol.
Plus, "The unbound" makes them sound like an ascended being rather than "navigator" which makes them seem like a glorified GPS. Which is extra stupid because the plot is about a "navigator" thinking they are an ascended being and everyone else is lesser. Why the name change besides milking Dune popularity?
Eh, if I recall "the unbound" was a Bentusi term, which they used for people who "became" their ships through direct neural connections to them. It makes sense that the Hiigarans would have their own term, especially since obviously Karan was one of those even before the fleet encountered the Bentusi.
“We will not be bound to the terminology.” -the one Bentusi ship from Cataclysm
I like how a discussion over the cutscenes looms over the first parts of this video. Like a shark fin in a Jaws movie. The anticipation is glorious.
There sure is a lot of jaw to talk about when it comes to the cutscenes
@@RedHazeCh Of course there is. Didn't you see how much Imagin... *grew* as a character?
>You are going to burn very bright my little star
"You're gonna burn alright"
Fuck turning off the UCs, too much work getting to the panels and into that room with all the lightning. Dark age ending everytime.
@@pnutz_2 tracer tong's special ed ending..
*smack lips* *hyperspace jump initiated* "what a shame"
Number one, thats terror.
@@cheekibreeki4638 Number two, that's terror.
This really makes you appreciate how smart earlier homeworld games were with their scale. Motherships were absolutely colossal entities that were several times bigger than anything else you might've run into. The complete insignificance of personal drama made total sense from the vantage point of the player looking down at it. It kinda added to the grace and aloofness of the Bentusi that their ships were actually a bit smaller but way more powerful and capable. On the rare occasion you found anything was bigger than your mothership, it came with the sense of supernatural awe.
But no, we have to have stuff on the screen, so just add random space debris that looks like it could hold several worlds inside it.
>Halloween music
Oh, i can already feel it
After that story section, I feel sorry for Mandy having experienced this game. Goddamn, they hurt this man.
Honestly when you said the story was horrible for a moment I was terrified that they would've brought back the Beast from Homeworld Cataclysm and completely invalidate everything the Somtaaw did.
Seeing just how bad the story actually ended up being though now I'm thinking them bringing back the Beast might've actually helped things funnily enough.
If they brought back the Beast, you could do some, like, cyclical prophecy thing, like the Reapers in mass effect
Instead they went for YA novel + modern "sequel after a long time" trends, where they just take terms from the previous entries and sprinkle them into the writing randomly
@@Hegataro It would be a very basic ass story but I could've seen something working where going off all the prophecy shit the writers like they could've said Imogen was destined to fend off some "immense evil" and then coincidentally the Beast re-emerges and starts spreading like wildfire now that FTL has been streamlined thanks to the Progenitor cores.
They could've even had a story beat like here were Karan left to fend the Beast off herself and later on Imogen ends up having to fight a Beast-infected mothership while Karan's half-insane now begging Imogen to kill her in-between the Beast speaking through her taunting Imogen.
@@theodorehodbor5080 It would be very "why the fuck does System Shock 2 bring back SHODAN", but it would be better than... whatever the fuck the game has
Bringing back the Beast at least wouldn't violate existing lore. The infection vector in Cataclysm was a single ship coming from outside the galaxy.
Why wouldn't there be more attempts or vessels coming from the same direction or even an entirely different galaxy the Beast hit?
Ehhh... I could see the beast returning just for a single level just to show how Higaran technology evolved to counter it. It wouldn't contribute to the main story but may be a different enough level gameplay wise to warrant it.
“The lullaby is the key.” Wait a minute…
(Pulls mask off the game cover)
“Metroid: Other M?!”
“Yes, and I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for you meddling Kushaan, and your mangy Kiith.”
"And your sidekick, Battlestar Galactica Season 4!"
LOL
the baby
Sommy-sommy-taaaaaw!
Thank you.
Never expected to hear a Homeworld game be compared to Genesis Rising, not the other way around. Now I feel fear. Edit: Fourteen people wrote this plot, and they all need to be found. And talked to.
They could all probably be found at Sweet Baby Inc
@@sean7221you have cropped porn as your icon brother... to follow the homeworld 3 trend of hamfisted bible references you gotta remove the log from your own eye before pointing out the splinter in your brother's eye :/
Is the sweet baby inc in the room with us right now?
Actually, they did work on this game.
@@CygnusDerg are you gas lighting or intentionally ignorant?
mandalore is the only reviewer i watch just for fun without actually being interested in the games he's reviewing
ssethtzeentach and tehsnakerer are also on that list for me
same 😊 edit: oh and tehsnakerer of course ♥️ need someone to play the jank so i can enjoy him not enjoying it
@@renemuellervideo I actually did end up playing Brigand. What a wild ride
I tend to enjoy earlybird for old school games that I've never heard of. XD
@@cyberninjazero5659 oh wow. i hardly have time for gaming at the moment, so i would not be ready to take that on 😅
Priorities for making a Modern Computer Game:
-graphics
-multi-player
-volumetric fog
-marketing
-marketing
-marketing
-marketing
-marketing
-marketing
-marketing
-nice looking UI
-sound design
-letting the level designer do one of their ideas
-merch
-core gameplay loops
-game lore / narrative writing
No no, you're missing the #1 priority: making all of the money in the world.
Just turning a profit isn't enough either, it has to be an obscene profit, or we'll just not bother and put the IP on ice for another couple of decades
@@Stukov961 As long as you change all the existing lore to have a "fresh new take" when you take it off ice again later that should be fine
most frustrating part of modern gaming. Games look straight out of a Hollywood movie but gameplay is still the same as the first game of doom, and story telling has somehow regressed.
Microtransactions go on top. This game doesn't do that, at least.
@@PasserMontanus Yet. It's becoming increasingly common to put them in at a later date.
this game has polluted my mind with another question
if Karen is bald, presumably to make room for the neural implants necessary to link her to fleet command, and every other "unbound" we've seen is bald too, WHY DOES IMOGEN HAVE A FULL HEAD OF HAIR?
They put the implants in her chin
If it's not painfully obvious by the end of the video, Imogen is *special*. The plot of this game is just a Great Value YA novel, sadly.
Because is a space genius
That was probably a design note for the next generation of fleet integration cybernetics. “Make sure navigators can keep their hair, all the baldness is super creepy”
I mean I was wondering the same about whatsisface from 2
The star-trekification of the higaarans hurts my soul
This isn't a dig at star trek, its just that homeworld wasn't meant to be star trek... So many unique things with their own styles and storytelling getting slowly homogenized into whatever's cool. Its like new star trek becoming star warsy, its all just unique things being turned into other things for no good reason.
When I asked one of my friends what he thought of it he called it Homeworld: Discovery.
@@MandaloreGaming holy shit so real lmaooo
At least discovery became decent later down the line. I just don’t know what to say about this game.
@@MandaloreGaming this hurts my soul
@MandaloreGaming mother of God, the mad man is 100% on the money
The game comes with a built in therapy group. Sickest burn I've ever witnessed
"Feels like a YA novel."
Ouch.
That’s not a burn, it’s an immolation.
God I hate how much it’s right to. My (mom/grandma/mentor?) was the greatest navigator ever, and now I am over educated child with low to mild social awkwardness must now lead people into battle. It’s Enders game WITH LESS MATURITY.
Feels like they asked an AI to write an YA novel.
At least there were no two almost identical love interests for her to choose.
But there were two ladies kinda fighting for her attention...
Shit...
while not writing the Chronicles of Narnia, CS Lewis wrote a very interesting book called the Screwtape Letters, the core concept of was a senior devil writing letters to his nephew about how best to do the whole tempting humans into sin thing. at one point, the subject of churches comes up, and Screwtape has opinions about the best kind of priest: consider Father "G", who believes his congregation verges on atheism, and so has watered down his sermons so much out of fear they won't be receptive otherwise that he's the one who shocks them with his unbelief now instead of the other way around.
this is mildly funny because that was explicitly CS Lewis' idea with the Chronicles of Narnia: "kids are stupid, so I'll dumb down my favorite Jesus allegories enough to entertain them." it is also the root of the problem with YA writing in general. when you set out to dumb your story down enough so the audience cannot possibly miss the moral you're trying to provide, you may succeed, and you may fail, but succeed or fail *it's going to be a dumb story*
you have to trust, on some level, that your audience is smart enough to get what you're going for. and accept it if they don't. this weird preemptive defensive cringing posture helps nothing!
This is a great example of how you need to have space magic from the start or no space magic ever. Either you write around the paracausal stuff, or it feels like an ass pull when it comes in.
"- How does it feel to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames ?
- Feels great"
Feels like what i expected given that's what this economic system encoureges
Now that you mention it, I think this was the last one for me.
Rich Evans and Mike Stoklasa.
To give credit where credit is due.
Feels horrible
@@kenetickups6146encourages why?
Everything is gone. Homeworld is burning.
Homeworld 3 is being consumed by a firestorm. The game's story has been destroyed. All mechanical functionality destroyed. Significant salt in low internet orbit
And Mandy hasn't even tried it's little brother, Homeworld: Vast Reaches (VR) on Quest
Actually, scratch that. If you hate 3's mechanics, Vast Reaches might actually be the panacea. But it ain't the originals either.
With that salt line you have single handedly outdone what 14 writers tried and failed to do.
I never played Homeworld really, tried it after watching Mandy’s video on the first one. It’s weird cos I know I’d have loved it as kid but as an adult I was just like, meh. Too many systems and I’m tired after work.
Regardless. My point is I’m laughing my ass off IRl like at that.
“Significant salt in low orbit.” Line. Like. I shed a tear when I heard that everything is gone segment in Mandy’s video. Such was the emotional power of that one scene. So I started off thinking this is a solid homage comment. Then you went and sent my sides into high orbit. I still await their return.
Thanks for the belly laugh good sir.
The main female writer did not survive interrogation
@@TheJaskier666 HERE HERE
The big passcode being the lullaby is like in a disney channel movie where the main character successfully guesses the bad guys password by typing in their kids name or secret weakness or whatever. Just very amature hour stuff
It's fine if sentimentality is the focus, just not on a galactic scale
someone else mentioned it was the solution to a Darkwing Duck episode and it was much better delivered
... Honestly, the passcode being a kid's name could be an amazing humanization moment for an antagonist if done right. I don't think I've ever seen that for a "villain"
It's always a hero thing. "Aww, look how much your crispy beef jerky that would have been inconvenient to the plot loved you~ Now go back to shooting unnamed guards."
Sorry, i just remembered how a mediocre Vin Diesel movie had this same fucking premise where a kids toy dance that his dad used to do was the way to safety navigate a trap filled corridor to his secret project
I'll come to bat for this specific plot beat - it reads like a badly-executed Battlestar Galactica homage - specifically, where the final co-ordinates for earth are the riff from "all along the watchtower", which Starbuck remembered her dad singing to her as a kid.
Given that BSG was directly inspired by the original Homeworld, it makes sense to have that story beat looped back in, in a meta "all of this has happened before" kind of way.
That story is just...
Someone took Homer's Odyssey and decided a vampire romance/self-discovery side-plot would actually improve it.
I find it funny he brings up the Gaalsien as the worst kinds of zealots when there are members of the Gaalsien in your fleet based on the random name generator. Made even funnier when the event that gave them that reputation was over a century ago.
and in a holy war they were right about and remember the words that left the mouth of there leader in defeat begging tearfully to step back and avoid kharak burning
@@marley7868 To be fair, they were not *really* "right".
They were correct about the consequences of hyperspace travel. But at the same time, both the HW1 manual and DoK made it pretty clear that staying on Kharak was not a viable long-term survival strategy either. So if their goal was survival, they weren't exactly picking a long-term option either.
@@GeneralBolas true enough but end of the day they said seeking the stars will make this planet burn they were right
Even funnier, DoK happened multiple centuries before HW1, HW2 happened century before HW3. Which means Isaac realistically shouldn't pick ancient kiith as zealots when kadesh or vaygr are way more recent
Two centuries ago. Homeworld 2 takes place 100 years after Homeworld 1, and 3 takes place 100 years after 2.
This would be like a British person going "Those damn Americans, they're just as crazy as Napoleon was!" in response to the invasion of Iraq.
When your characters look like one of those uncanny "realistic" 3d cartoons from the early 2000s you know you fucked up.
You just see the look, and inside - you know.
@bobmcbob4399 oh ya, this is some Mars Needs Moms/Polar Express shit
Look up the intro to Independence War, a space game from 1997. It's a 14 minute CG video that looks like something from its era, but... It's somehow... STILL BETTER THAN THIS.
@@stopasking968 oh ya, because that game, among the jank, had soul, not like modern gaming.
Homeworld 3: Spirits Within
a reviewer reading the manual? MANDALORE YOURE BUILT DIFFERENT
He goes one step further. He buys the artbook too.
I guess calling this "Sequel of Homeworld" or even "Homeworld 3" is just insult to everyone with brain.
So I think that we should instead called this as "Homeworld (2024): My Immortal Fetish of Banban"
One thing I liked about the first game, is that Karen became more machine than human when she became fleet command; it was her sacrifice. Here, it doesn't seem like such a big deal with the way the process is depicted.
What's stupid about that (well, one thing) is that it could have been done well. Karen's was a sacrifice because it was experimental technology being used to fill a need they couldn't find another way to deal with. It took them years to be able to unwire her enough to exit the ship after all was said and done. They've had a LOT of time and recovered progenitor tech to study to make the process better. They could have used that angle to lean on the idea that with the improvements and advancements, less humanity has to be given up to pull it off, or even make a point that the less invasive connection system leads to less disconnection from humanity. If they had wanted Karen as their antagonist, they could easily have played off the Bentusi's mistakes and essentially established the following "The Progenitors did the 'Unbound' thing themselves, with much bigger ships and the resulting egomania/disconnect ended up leading to their destruction. The antagonist is that level of insane, Karen was going in that direction herself but somewhat clung to sanity, Imogen's less invasive connection (and regular disconnects because it's duration and scale that are the issues) means she has the clarity to see the problem and do something about it." Full on apply the lesson that having it all on a single person isn't wise and will blow up someone's ego to inhuman insane proportions. (ala the Tiidani Emperor or Makan.) Roll with that and have Karen's self destruction be to deal with an otherwise unstoppable Progenitor megalith base for the antagonist, while removing the temptation to link herself up to something like the Sajuuk again. (also partially explaining why it wasn't used again.) With the artificial cores making the gate network not the end all be all of travel, less invasive linking tech and an understanding that the problem exists (and is serious) the galaxy can go forward into a new era.
This a thousand times. I was so confused here when they show her and she just looks like a fairly regular middle age woman vs. Homeworld 1’s cutscene art where she’s this weird like humanoid cocoon thing in the middle of a bunch of tubes and wires connecting to the ship because she literally is the ship.
@@Sorain1 Best part of that is, it can be worked into a metaphor for addiction, be it drugs, alcohol or anything else--and in turn as a passing of the torch from one protagonist of a previous age to another of the new age. i.e. the less we rely on our vices, the stronger we are as people. The
previous antagonists, aside from the Beast, were all subject to this vice and now it has consumed the last player character, or something to that effect.
What we got is... Very "sheltered kid learns about the world as she deals with an antagonist that just wants friends." There's nothing subtle about that, and Karan dies so that we can have that symbolic torch passing without the actual effort of saying profound with it.
19:55 "friends, it's been years since I played an RTS that was this inconsistent"
Wow, that sounds bad-
"And I'm including the launch version of WH3"
OH WOW THAT'S BADDDD
"Too many cooks, too many cooks" adding spices to the script
not even good cooks either. Same cook who scorched the borderlands franchise.
The game had datamined scenes showing the original plot of the game. No surprise, it was way better before certain 'cooks' ruined it.
If we can relate this to cooking, they were already making a golden roast chicken- before the management introduced new cooks and they said "oh you guys are making dessert?" and put a ton of chocolate and dumped a can surstromming on the chicken.
OK, here's an idea: What if the Incarnate Queen was a member of the Bentusi who had been cast out, and the Incarnate themselves are essentially a rogue branch of the Bentusi who have secretly been building their forces at the edge of the galaxy for centuries? We already know how powerful Bentusi technology is, enough that they could potentially threaten the Hiigaran empire without the need for stupid space magic (although the Bentusi ALSO have a deeper knowledge of hyperspace than anyone else, so weaponizing it doesn't seem out of the question).
Instead of wanting to be friends with Imogen while also attacking her for no reason, the Incarnate Queen is bitter and hateful towards other unbound due to her being an outcast, and is furious that the Hiigarans are starting to train new navigators and potentially creating a new race of unbound, or something like that.
It would also just be cool to see what Bentusi combat ships could look like (other than the super acolyte), instead of just rehashing the progenitor aesthetic. Their typical sleek, rounded ship designs would also contrast way better against the blocky shapes of the Hiigaran ships.
I don't consider myself a good writer by any means, but I feel like I just wrote a better foundation for a story in 5 minutes in a youtube comment than what over a dozen people came up with after like 5 years.
Good idea, but I'd add something else: After the events of Homeworld 1 and especially Homeworld 2, the few survivors of Kith Gaalsien did something like a 180° in mentality and are now staunchly opposed to mithologizing precursor technology or raising Karen S'jet as the Sejuuk' Khar, insisting that the Kushan should forge their own path forward instead of relying on precursor tech and embracing hollow superstition, lest they repeat a situation like Deserts of Kharak, and slowly rebuilt their numbers by recruiting both like-minded people and "Sleepers" who had lost everything when Kharak burned, but are also looked at as outcasts by most other Kith who have embraced Karen's cult of personality.
You can keep Imogen's desire to demistify precursor tech and the synthetic cores which make even more sense now, and when the anomaly happens and Karen goes missing, there's a new point of tension about having to send a Gaalsien of all people to look for her since Imogen is still the vest person for the job, and a reason why Imogen would be insecure and akward about working with the crew, since they treat and consider her and outsider. If you feel like it, you can even throw in Karen having a god complex and fucking stuff up even more because she's the Chosen One and knows what to do and can't possibly fail, ad Imogen having to either reach out to her or bring her down.
@@totallynotavoyeur6977 Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that any of the Gaalsien would've survived Kharak- even if they abandoned their religion I have a hard time believing they would've been allowed aboard the mothership or the cryo trays. I'm all for demystifying Karan and the hyperspace cores though, this game got way too deep into the whole 'space magic' crap.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but if you want another side-villain then there's a really good one in the Homeworld mobile game of all things. The Kiithless Hiigarans, former members of the Taiidan who lived on Hiigara before the Kushan showed up. They refused to join the new Hiigaran empire and were essentially kicked off of their own planet, and are now seeking revenge against the Hiigarans. It's a really interesting point of conflict that the other games never really bring up, and there are probably plenty more races out there that were negatively affected by the Kushan showing up out of nowhere and taking over a galactic empire overnight. Not to mention how ironic it is that the Kushan basically exiled them the same way they were thousands of years ago.
They probably wouldn't be strong enough to act as a major villain (and you could even make an argument for them becoming protagonists in a future game) but they'd be perfect for some one-off battles during the campaign.
I like your cut, gee.
*slaps*
And then a rogue Beast strain has mutated in a distant, unchecked patch of the galaxy, growing inside the crystals you had to process back in "Cataclysm".
“I’ve heard how this ends! It turns out the secret code is in the nursery rhyme he told to his daughter!” -Homer Simpson
I mean, I can see someone using something like that as one of those "secret only I and the one person I trust know" things used as a password... but the specifics of the set up are awful.
This kind of set-up can work, but only in very specific circumstances. For example there is a Warhammer 40K novel where an Alpha Legion operative uses a short passage from a childhood song that's presumably only known to him and another operative as a sleeper agent activation phrase because they were childhood friends born on an isolated, low-tech planet that was completely destroyed on the Inquisition's orders 200+ years ago. All data about their people was either never recorded, lost, purposefully erased or rendered confidential due to their supposed "dealings" with a Traitor Legion, and the odds of not only finding another survivor or their descendant over 2 centuries later, but also having them sing a specific childhood rhyme at an honest-to-Warp Space Marine are so low, the phrase can be considered unique enough to safely use as a secret code.
Again: very specific setup, the phrase was set up relatively close in time to the book's actual events, there was also a chance it wouldn't work or it could never be used and the plan accounted for these outcomes.
@@sofija1996 you just reminded me of Prospero Burns and how something from a flashback got used against the antagonist to save the main guy's life
THE PLANTS ARE JUST FLOATING IN THE AIR IN THE LULLABY FLASHBACK SCENE OH MY GOD
40:55 “That was a real edit. I didn’t do that.” Mostly amused up to this point but went into disbelief when you told me that’s just the game
Nobody:
Homeworld Writers: Let's make a deeply personal character drama...
Fans: O...okay? Kind of a big departure thematically from previous entries, but if you think that's best...
Homeworld Writers: ...and we'll give it the same energy as a $5 book from Walmart.
Everybody: But why?
>Homeworld Writers: ...and we'll give it the same energy as a $5 book from Walmart.
I'm sure I've read better cheap books, tho
"How does feel to grow old enough to see all of your favorite franchises turn to shit?"
"Feels great!"
Feels horrible
@@АндрейНеугодников-м6еthey have destroyed almost everything but they're going further back every year. Next they'll start defiling MS-DOS era game franchises. They won't stop until every book, game, movie and tv series has been reimagined for the modern audiences. They are at war with us.
@@wombatilloIt’s not a war, it’s a bunch of low talent hacks with no good ideas and less personality
Redlettermedia reference.
@@niallreid7664 "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!!!!"
"Homeworld 3's story is like seeing a wooly mammoth in your yard while also realizing it has leprosy. It's the worst I've seen in a mainstream game in a long time." And that is a very, very low bar.
AAAAND IT’S GONE. Gearbox screwed the pooch so badly that they killed the game only 6 months into its life, in a desperate attempt to scam everyone who was optimistic enough to give the season pass a chance in spite of all common reason telling them not to. Thank you Valve for stepping in to slap the stupid out of Randy Bitchford and force him to offer refunds to everyone who got the season pass. Gearbox is 0-2 this year, first this, then the DISASTROUS Risk of Rain expansion, they’re probably trying to pull a Colonial Marines again where they’re siphoning funding from these games development to dump into Borderlands 4.
Did I say 0-2? I meant 0-3, because the Borderlands movie also came out this year. Gearbox is a ghost of its former self WHICH IS SAYING SOMETHING.
29:19 data miners have found remnants of old cutscenes in the files, and it goes to show that this latest rewrite took place incredibly late into development. It’s a shame, the old stuff looks way more in-line with what Homeworld is supposed to be.
I misspoke: not data miners, it was people just digging around the game’s files.
And don’t get me wrong, when I say “looks,” I mean purely visually. It could have been the same terrible story told using HW style black and white illustrations, but it might not have been Stinger Flynn’s Island bad, or giantess SFM fetish film bad.
We’re just gonna have to wait for some disgruntled dev to speak out on what went wrong with this game, but I am more than willing to blame everything that went wrong on Gearbox.
got a good rec for a datamining site?
they went full destiny?
I dont think this is accurate.
As far as I know the "datamining" has only presented concept stills which show a pretty accurate concept art of the cutscenes we ended up with. A lot usually change from concept to final.
One thing is for sure though, the concept featured less close-ups on ugly women clinching their eyebrows.
any details on this? the only video i could find on this was from arch and i dont want to give him a watch
Makes me wonder if the new rewritten story was written by committee.
00:10 "CUT US LOOSE" . I hear the cry for a better game in my head.
11:16 Reminds me how good Armored Core 6 pulled off it's characters without a single human face
Or even, you know, the first HOMEWORLD game...
They kinda cheated with individual mech designs characters have being a substitute for a face but i agree they did a good job.
Largely, I think, because Homeworld 1 was tuned to be a story that needed to be part of a game where you controlled the destiny of an entire PEOPLE as they fled certain destruction for their true homeworld. Not having faces aside from Karan (who even then you only see from either behind or far away) works in getting you to detach from the characters and really focusing on the grand scale gravitas, even in Cataclysm.
Deserts of Kharak, despite doing away with this long-term, at least got around this by still focusing on that hero's journey/tragedy aspect and making the writing much more procedural and less personal despite the personal stakes of that game's S'Jet's journey into the Great Desert to find her brother. Homeworld 3... Makes a lot of the minor characters we see faceless, like the Kushan pilots, but all of the major characters not only have "arcs" so to speak but are actually presented as "people" rather than protocol-driven military types like the last games. Which might ground the overall universe in some sense of place, but that's never been what Homeworld needed. At all. It's like they want to get lore across in the story for the sake of having lore and easter eggs, like a 'real' mainstream science fiction work.
Or all the other Armored Core games.
@@Steir12until much later in the game main character don’t even have mechs
They straight out murdered Karan Sjet with this atrocity. Remember toppling an empire and killing a mad emperor with her? Remember taming a progenitor demi-god and stopping genocidal, marauding hordes with her as Fleet Command? Now she's just a frail old grandma, unwilling to slap a petulant wannabe hyperspace queen because she fears for the 3 Hyperspace Cores. The Cores that literarily turn her into an immortal demi-god...
Meh it's not like 2 had a good story
@@20storiesunder I'll die on the hill that 2 was fine. the story wasn't as good as HW1, but it has the atmosphere and narrative to match. it also expanded the mysticism of the world of the game by exploring the history of the world and other factions.
At least in KOTOR 2 it starts with Kreia looking like she's at the point where she's done, but then the player realizes over time that...
...She's only getting started. Imagine that kind of story arc with our first protagonist in the series we haven't heard in 25 years (in terms of a wholly new game) with a plot twist like that. Staying in the game long enough to become the villain (and decide if that's how she wants to be remembered).
This makes me SO sad. Homeworld 1 and 2 were some of my favourite games of all time and I've been looking forward to this game for years. SIGH.
for better and for worse, primarily worse, it's homeworld 2 2.
I love the current crop of writers, destroying one franchise after another.
@@grimkahn3775 it's happening with movies too. it cant all be a coincidence.
Era One is going to end up being Homeworld 3 I think. An attempt to take Homeworld and move forward with it. But this is years away from done, so I will bide my time as usual. We waited 20 years, we can wait longer.
if 2 is really on your list of best games ever then theres no way you wont at least like this one too
Still in Awe that "KINDOM HEARTS 2 HAS SCREWD US AGAIN!" Is a real clip.
“Where was Kingdom Hearts II during Hurricane Katrina?”
It is. The actor for the lead somtaww guy did live action tv show that had that line.
You know what's funny? The lullaby was a better plot point in Darkwing Duck. Dr. Waddlemeyer's invention could only be activated by a sequence of key presses which were thought lost when Taurus Bulba killed him. It turned out that Waddlemeyer sang his grandaughter Gosalyn a lullaby with the sequence in the lyrics for safekeeping. It wasn't until Darkwing made the connection from seeing the Ramrod's keyboard.
I was going to say like, obviously this is egregiously bad writing and not in a fun camp way, but also ive 1000% seen this before in like 5 other rpgs ive played. Substitute song for (insert other special childhood memory the protag carries with them) like a poem or just a fable and its even more common. I would've expected them to come up with something at least a bit more unique. Also even if theyre gonna do the played out thing at least put Chekov's gun somewhere that most people hardly notice it, rather than being like "have I told you about my GUN yet?" every 5 min.
@@feelingveryattackedrn5750 "Hello there good sir, before we continue with the main story, have you seen my GUN????? I hang it up on my MANTLEPIECE, I use it in case of a BEAR attack or if a BEAR broke into my HOME. That will never happen though, I will bring up my GUN in discussions though every 10 minutes and talk about BEARS and my HOME."
It’s pretty dire when a homeworld sequel invokes the funny duck Batman comics plot devices as major dramatic moments
You know things are wrong when a non-serialized 90s Disney cartoon series did things OH SO RIGHT compared to an early 2020s video game.
They did it in battlestar galactica too, which is just hilarious considering the BSG remake took a bunch of inspiration from the original Homeworld.
Why is it that in a game from 1998 you could make a wall of ion frigates with a group of support frigates programmed to follow them and automatically heal any that get damaged, while now you tell a ship to attack something and it does a 720 flip while shooting off into space.
Because the current batch of code nerds are nowhere as competent as the old guard.
Education. The nerds of yesteryear were proper nerds with passion and idealism.
The current batch are programmed corporate drones that are rented out to churn.
Any actual game dev is working on indies, far away from corpos and HR harpies.
Because the 90s devs were all nerdy white guys hired for their talent and the 2020s devs are purple haired communists hired for their skin color and mental illnesses.
Using Unreal Engine for a space RTS will do that. Especially if the coders don't know what they are doing. Not everything needs to be UE or Unity. The remastered engine was a lot better.
Plllllease, thinking this is on the developers is beyond ignorant. @@Jokoko2828
The ship being vertical in the first game was a very elegant visual reminder that the game used all three dimensions and provided a clear sense of identity to the series. The flying wedge could be a call back to the flying resupply ships in Deserts of Kharak or just another flying wedge.
I thought it was kind of a neat distinction between the old Mothership and the new one but then later it turns out both are basically the same ship design and both have to change orientation for certain things during the campaign.
To be fair, nothing stopped you from picking up "Taiidan" at the beginning of campaign in HW1 and getting stuck with horizontal toaster for the duration of it