Moral of the Story: Jane Austen gave us manuals on how to avoid toxic relationships which people think is adventurous but leaves you traumatised actually.
The interesting thing about this suggestion is that I find my own instincts are generally more trustworthy than those of people around me, which is the opposite to what Ellie is suggesting Jane Austen is saying.
Yeah, and it's evident in all her books, except in the case of Mansfield Park half the messed up girls who read it go, "like, ohmagawd Crawford wasn't that bad, Fanny could have fixed him; how dare she marry a stable clergyman she's loved since childhood instead of the guy who slept with her married cousin!" 😆 Also some sense and sensibility fans think Marianne should have married Willoughby. Facepalm. I hate this planet.
Ellie Dashwood, smiling: "Keep having an awesome day, because you're awesome!" Me, eyes narrowing: this lady is too generally agreeable. Not sure I should trust her
This is great content!!!!!! I almost married a Wickham 2y ago. It took me 6months to see what grave mistake I was heading for and end the engagement. He played my weakness (loneliness, bad mental health and pride) and I was only looking at the things I wanted to see in him. Time was crucial! He showed his true colors and I finally confronted my own blindness. Now I'm in a journey to forgive myself for my stupidity! (And I'm in better place regarding my mental health)
yyyep me too. These are all such good lessons for life! If only I had been paying attention when I read Jane Austin as a teen, but at the time I thought her characters were kind of exaggerated.
I see this stuff as patterns showing up for us to clear from within us… the Wickam showing us more clearly what the pattern is and that it exists in us… once we clear it, then we shift our attraction to a whole new and better level. The Ho’oponopono making right tool is very useful in these cases. I think the ideas of Abraham Hicks talks also give good insights towards clearing the scoundrel attractions out of our lives. Best of everything to you!
You are not stupid period, especially not for falling for him. I hope you're overcoming your struggles, whatever they are! I know from personal experience that loneliness and mental health concerns can exacerbate my own worst tendecies and blind me to reality in ways I'm not always aware of. I hope you're gentle and kind to yourself - this is a success story after all!
There's a reason people say you should live together for at least half a year before marrying, and it's probably things like this... It's great that you avoided the perils of evil shitbags, and I bid you luck in your... future engagements... (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)
I wonder if that’s why Austen resonates with young women at that point of life where they are finding out about themselves and others (and their motives). It’s all a part of growing up: who do we trust? How well do we know ourselves? It’s so interesting comparing reading Austen as a 20 year old and reading Austen now at 50…
I got married to a scandalous person who divorced me because I stopped allowing him to misuse my money...I have two kids..and believe me it was a horrible experience..I was deceived by his appearance and I was so open to him that he knew my faults. Also, I didn't give myself enough time to well judge his character....Thanks a lot for this amazing video 🌷
I was a sheltered and traumatized young woman who fell in love with a "Knight in shining armour". Too bad I had to learn the hard way he was hiding some very dull qualities underneath all that shine. I still haven't recovered after five years.
I think you just did more in 25 minutes to help me get over my ex boyfriend than years of therapy have. And I think I owe all my friends (the ones I should have been listening to) an apology. 🤣 He is one of Austen's charming scoundrels. How did I never see this in the three years together and the year and a half since we broke up?!? I need to not talk to him. (Duh! 🤦♀️)
Some things never change. I'm dating right now and it's a nightmare. I'd say that by now, I have fairly well working 'bullshit detectors', but they're rather the result of lots of trial and error. To imagine, that one misstep, one case of trusting the wrong guy too early could ruin my whole life, rather then being just a disappointing experience...makes me grateful, I live when and where I live.
Jane Austin and Leo Tolstoy both helped me to avoid charming scoundrels and to arrive in a happy, stable marriage. It was interesting watching the scoundrels' characters being illuminated over time and seeing the traces of the bullets that I had dodged from not getting involved with such people, both male romantic partners and potential female false friends. It has been grieving to note the trail of destruction that several of these people left in their wakes, but I'm grateful that I was not caught in the direct path of their negative choices.
@@tessiya6199He certainly knows how to get inside the head of rakes like Vronski and Stiva Oblonsky. He shows us the self-deception of all of his male characters who all certainly put their wives and love interests through hell.
I think one of the reasons that Anne knows the value of investing time is that unlike all of our other point-of-view characters, she's already had a good amount of it. She's had a decade or so (assuming she came out ~16-18 as most girls did) of living in the world as an adult and observing people. Her social circle isn't especially large so she's probably made a lot of observations of the same people over a stretch of multiple years. And as an internally focused character she's probably done a lot of contemplation about how people do and don't change and the nuances of different kinds of characters.
This is a fascinating video! I've been studying narcissism and narcissistic abuse and I I'm intrigued by the idea of not being able to recognize someone's deceit because of lack of experience. If you're an honest person and you were sheltered from dishonest people, one's own honesty will make it almost impossible to believe someone could be dishonest.
It's a super insidious problem! Tough personal experience suggests that if you're a generous-hearted person with really strong personal ethics, realizing that some people seem to basically base their actions purely on self-interest is really hard to get your head around IRL even if you're theoretically familiar with it in works like Ms Austen's? Being strongly empathetic doesn't seem to help much either - one is still too prone to interpret the person's behaviour in the best light possible! 😔 Encountering real covert narcissists is a very steep learning curve... they seem to pretty good at putting up a shiny front until you've seen them in extended destructive action over time. Super scary stuff!! 😬
If you're surrounded with fake, deceitful people, does it make you the same as them? Especially if you have no choice but to interact with them i.e. they're your colleagues, parents? How do you escape such a trifling situation?
This video is such a good example of how media analysis and understanding the themes of a piece of fiction can teach you something irl. As someone who always feels kind of naive and over-trusting in new social situations, I actually learned a lot from this video about how to better judge ppl's character. There's something really... freeing, maybe? About the distance that analyzing literature gives you, while also feeling true to life. Like, it feels a little silly saying that I learned a few new things about social interactions from a Jane Austen analysis, but it's also safer than living through making the mistakes myself. Which makes it feel less silly.
I'm exactly the same! I find it hard in social situations and this video definitely taught me a lot about life and how to navigate relationships with othes and social situations.
It's not silly at all. This is part of why many authors write the stories they do - to help us understand human nature. I bet JA would've been stoked to know that her novels helped you navigate human relationships! And how great is Ellie Dashwood's analysis? 👏🏆
If this video was “How to Marry Mr Wickham”, it would be one second long. It would also just be a black screen with ‘HAVE MONEY’ right in the middle in a huge font.
One of the best pieces of advice in this, that I will definitely echo, is take your time. If they are truly in love with you they will be fine going at a slower pace. Nobody can hide their true character forever so, ladies, take your time! I was with my boyfriend for 6 years before we got married and had kids! It was worth the wait to get a genuine person.
This is all great advice. 3 reminded me of a job I once had. The time came for my 100 day review and someone told me that when I first started nobody thought I'd last because I didn't talk much (they had $20.00 on two weeks BTW). I told her it was because I was listening, people will show themselves if you just let them talk enough, and that's how I knew who I could trust and who to keep an eye on. She looked at me like wowed.
This is a real public service, Ellie! I wished I'd learned and incorporated these lessons before I married a narcissist. Buyer, beware...what have you sold yourself on?
A good way to ascertain Wickam's true character is to ask him. As long as you're not a threat to his designs he will freely admit that he has no morals. It depends on the setting how forthright Wickam will be. I've come across sociopaths here and there. Most of them freely admit that they take advantage people. Personally, if someone tells me they have no morals I believe them, and I watch out for them.
Really interesting video! In Northanger Abbey, there is also the ‘irony’ (or just genuine life lesson) of Catherine knowing all about gothic horror evil, whilst being very naive to the evil that hides in polite society (the Thorpes, General Tilney).
Simple yet so deep. I study toxic relationships and really research ways to prevent people from getting in them, but I've never heard such precise tips. Really this is gold right here
Regarding Step 3, giving oneself enough time to judge, and analyzing one's own character, I imagine trying to get Lydia to do this. Literally rolling on the floor laughing!
There was this one guy I liked in my class. We were friendly with each other but weren't in the same friend group, so we never spend that much time together. When I talked to the girls in that friend group about him, they said that he wants to appear as a nice and caring guy, but in many instances he didn't do what he promised to do or he wasn't sincere and kept his life very private, even tho they were friends for 3-4 years. I didn't take these seriously, as I was blinded by my feelings for him, but I should have known better. I should have trusted the people who knew him for a longer time. They were my friends too and I knew them longer than him. They were honest and didn't want to hurt me nor him. One day, I was talking to him about my life and such and I expected him to do the same. I believed that he would be as open as I am. The next day, I discovered that he has a girlfriend, whom he didn't mention at all the day before. I was shocked and angry at him for not telling me such a big change in his life. I thought we were friends, and friends share these things with each other, don't they? Now, that I am older, I got to realise that not all people in my life are the same as me, and that I should be more picky with who I open my heart to.
I have been watching your channel quite awhile. This is my favorite episode. A good argument we’ll-founded with quotes from many Austen works. And it made me take a more critical look at myself, with some discomfort. Bravo!!
Or, at least, he didn't realize just how much she disliked him. He was taken in by both her excellent manners (hiding her true feelings) & his own pride in himself/his position
@@SafetySpooon Agreed. I don't think Darcy thought that Elizabeth actually returned his feelings. He just didn't realize she actively disliked him and also assumed he was such a good catch that Elizabeth would obviously say yes. (Paralleling Mr Collins' proposal, which is also focused on HIS feelings, with it being a given that she will accept)
He could actually have thought that she actively liked him. They have some darn good banter that he could easily have read as deliberate flirting. For instance, in that scene at the piano, even when she is teasing him Elizabeth smiles and Mr. Darcy is described as smiling at least 3 times (which he is rarely described as doing when conversing with other people). I can see him walking away from that going: "That was fun! Maybe I'm getting better at this relating-to-people thing!"
I think under Lizzie's dislike was a good deal of liking which she did not consciously admit to herself. That, Darcy might have unconsciously registered. But on the whole, I agree with StarryEyed0590 that he didn't think she would reject him however she felt about him.
That's Mr. Collins who still convinced himself Lizzie was playing hard to get after multiple nos. I don't think Mr. Darcy necessarily thought she "liked" him but more that he thought she would accept him because of his status and wealth and her own limited options and family situation. Even if he partly thought she liked him, it wasn't completely delusional because they had quiet a bit of banter that could be construed as flirty banter.
Fortunately, mistakes in our modern era are more easily fixed than in the early 19th century, even if they still cause heartbreak. I'm glad you have been able to move on!
I am still recovering from one of my bad choices. After three years of relationship he cast me aside as fast and as convenient as possible, because I no longer fit what he was looking for. I had relied on him financially and he cut that of from one day to the other. At the same time wanted me to move out as fast as possible, while he had already moved in with his new girlfriend. And then he held back my 12.000€ in stocks on his depot so he could pressure me into moving out and even moving my furniture into a furniture storehouse because I had no permanent place to stay. What a scoundrel. Cold to the heart, pathetic, pitiful. I hope and pray that he reaps what he sows. Now I don’t trust my judgment anymore and cannot rely on anyone that much anymore. I take care of myself. Maybe over the years someone in my life will become a person, I can be relaxed around, take confidence in and get comfort, and overall support each other and have each other’s. But otherwise I love myself and am fine.
@@Imilana_da_Rodin The girl he cheated on you with will probably cheat on him... Good for you to get independent emotionally and financially. If someone great comes along, Great! But you don't want to date in a state of desperation. You deserve better. And living single is fine, too. Nurture your friend group. Cats and chihuahuas are also fine companions. 😻🐕
I'm not sure that Mr Collins really does think that Charlotte is his perfect partner. Mr Collins knows what he ought to feel about Charlotte, Lizzie (when he proposes to her), Lady Catherine, Rosings and its expensive windows, Lydia going of with Wickham, and everybody and everything. He has probably learnt this knowledge out of books. He does not, however, appear to have any genuine feelings at all. Even rendering Charlotte pregnant is, perhaps, only what he considered he ought to do.
This video actually helped me forgive myself for some errors of judgment I've made recently. Lizzie and Emma and Catherine have their weaknesses of character, and I have my own. Nothing to do about it but reflect and move on. Thanks for the insight, Ellie :)
What do you think about exploring Jane Austen’s views of female friendship and sisterhood? The Bennet, Elliot and Dashwood sisters show a lot of different examples
I know Mr. Collins is annoying and stuff, but he does get bashed a lot for no reason. Unlike Wickham or other scoundrels, Collins isn't able to lie or hide his feelings. He's overall a shallow kind of person, who respects wealth and "stuff", but that doesn't necessarily make him a BAD person. Since Charlotte was so desperate as to approve of his proposal, I do have a hope in my "this is how things turn out in the future" scenario that she and Mr. Collins learned to be happy together, instead of her trying to avoid him all the time. I know Charlotte is working to "improve" his worse impulses, like declaring every random and potentially unflattering thought in his head out loud. So, it's my hope that she's successful one day and he gets less annoying and she learns to appreciate that he's really not that bad of a person. But still, better her than me. I wouldn't want to marry Mr. Collins. I'd rather be an old maid. haha
You might want to read The Clergyman's Wife by Molly Greeley. It's an Austen fan fiction novel about what happened with Charlotte and Mr. C. I really enjoyed it. (Spoiler Alert -- she's reasonably content, which is all Charlotte really wanted.)
@@debbiericker8223 Thanks for the recommendation! You might enjoy The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hadlow. It really gives life to Mary's character and for most of the book, makes me want to just give her a hug. She gets happiness by the end.
@@crazybiogeek I've heard of that and plan to get a copy. There is a scene near the end of the old 1940s film version of P&P where Mary is playing piano with an admiring young man behind her. I can't remember if he's playing a flute or a violin or what, but he's clearly her beau. That scene is just about the only thing I like about that particular film adaptation, lol!
I read Charles Dickens’ David Copperfield for the first time as a teen and was horrified by Uriah Heep, and for many years he epitomized the classic villain in my mind. My mother read David Copperfield on my recommendation when she was in her mid to late forties. She was horrified by Steerforth and ranted about him at length when we discussed it afterwards. I didn’t understand her reaction. I mean, Steerforth made bad choices and hurt people, but surely it was nothing more than youthful indiscretion. I recently reread David Copperfield after not having done so for many years. I would like to say that I get it now that I’m… more mature. Steerforth was all of the things you described in this video, and more. He used people for his own gratification and then flung them aside when he’d gotten all he could out of them. Truly a charming and unprincipled rake. Thank you for the video. I quite enjoyed it.
This was such a perfect video that I needed right now. Didn't expect such deep self reflection from a video called "How to not Marry Wickham." Thanks so much to you and our glorious Ms Austen
5:14 When I saw that moment in ‘Sense and Sensibility’ (1995) where Emma Thompson as Elinor goes “Oh, Good God!” when she learns the truth kind of encapsulates Willoughby’s deeds.
This is such a wonderful and thoughtful examination of Jane Austin’s writing. It shows how well she understood human nature, and you’ve done an amazing job of studying and explaining the nuances of her writing. Fantastic video! (And also, I love your necklace. :-)
This is what I find so terrifying about many narcissists... The "loud & proud" egotist is easily detectable and avoidable, but the more covertly self-centered person (borderline sociopaths perhaps?) are often very, very good at putting up a positive front and talking a good game. As point #3 highlights, it seems like really the only way to spot them is to give any new acquaintance or colleague plenty of time, carefully observing their behaviour....? And just hope like heck they don't rip you off, backstab or assault you in the meantime!! 😬 Truly one of the scariest things about human nature to me - even if you have finely tuned BS detectors these people can slip past them for significant periods of time, because they are very practiced manipulators....
@@sophieruby9135 Hmm... possibly, although the country gossip Jane Austen rather sarcastically describes in P&P seems to have been a bit of a mixed bag? 😄 Word of Darcy's fortune got around in Netherton super-fast, but Wickham's misbehaviour & debt all round the town didn't seem to get out until after he'd already fled the scene... One suspects perhaps his friends like Cpt. Denny were helping try and keep things on the down-low, up until it finally just got too bad to hush up!
This got me thinking about Fanny Price, and the Dashwood sisters. What are their distorted views of the world? Marianne's is obviously related to excessive sensibility and an overly romantic view of the world that doesn't account for loving more than one person. Fanny's stems from a lack of self-confidence and that - as JA herself suggested - would've led to eventually marrying HC and being miserable. Elinor... is harder to pinpoint. In some ways she's both too sensible and also not observant enough. Curious to know your opinion, Ellie.
Well, she’s shocked about Edward’s past with Lucy, upon first hearing it from Lucy. She’s in disbelief and can’t reconcile his behavior with her (Elinor) with his behavior with Lucy; she fails to see that she missed signs (from Fanny, from Edward himself) that she might be investing too much in his sincerity or attentions. She’s initially too trusting of Lucy as well, allowing Lucy to get away with the the ‘sweet’ impression she tries to convey. Later she does some self-reflection and figures out who to trust. And when she lets Marianne know how she has kept feelings to herself, we see that she has dwelt on it a bit and begins to ‘reconcile.’ At least those are my thoughts.
Fanny was never going to marry Henry Crawford. Not by a long shot. Only the 1999 movie had suggested she was willing to marry him for a brief period. I think Fanny's real flaw was her hypocrisy and willingness to judge others without being capable of any real self-reflection.
@@juanitajones6900 no, sadly Austen flat out says Fanny would have married Henry eventually if Edmund married Mary. Honestly, if she couldn't have Edmund, I personally think she'd have been happier with Tom Bertram than Henry who would have made her miserable.
Fanny sees through Henry and Mary Crawford right away, and maintains her view of them even in the face of Sir Thomas's displeasure and her exile. She sees Edmund's infatuation with Mary as not being true to himself. Her only flaw in perception seems to be the belief that she is not worthy of anyone's favorable attention, which over time might have endangered her, had Edmund actually married Mary, and she had continued in her relationship with Henry. Henry did everyone a favor by running off with Maria. Fanny, Edmund, and Mr. Rushworth were all better off in the end.
So many good ideas in this, not only relating to love but also in every aspect of life, really. It is important, to not loose the connection between one’s view of life and reality of other people around, “bubble” etc.
Being a man who is normally too cautious when it comes to heart matters you would think that I might escape similar mistakes, however for a long time I was a bit of a sucker for women who were overly emotionally needy. Since I've become aware of that tendency I've successfully avoided being lured in by any more similar women so far. Great video again, Eliie! You deserve all your success because you're awesome!
That was an excellent and fascinating analysis of such an important issue: Perception vs reality. Have you considered presenting this as a master’s or Ph.D thesis topic? It is an important academic subject - superb job!!!
Ellie this is an excellent analysis of application from classic literature! This is one reason why people need to read classics like Austin. Imagine if they taught this in schools with this depth? It could save so many from ruining their lives. This made me examine myself and realize some changes I need to make. Thanks!
Can you do a few videos on Sense and Sensibility? I feel like everyone is always hype on Pride and Prejudice and the other fun, popular reads, I hardly see any commentary videos on Sense and Sensibility and it's such a good book! I think it's more on human nature with less comedy but it's still great! Please do some videos on it!
Ngl I am a magnet for toxic men waving red flags and have recently learnt to deal with men who could be green flags. You know you’ve dealt with a lot when you don’t know how to deal with guy who has green flags. The toxicity is both real and unreal.
Kept waiting for the sly insertion of the "like this video" plug. 😂 "Anne Elliot did not rush into liking Mr. Elliot, but one thing she did like was this video." Or " So how do you avoid liking a Mr. Wickham? Well one thing you must do to avoid this is to like this video."
Anne Elliott has always been my favourite heroine. She is older then the others and in some ways wiser. But I have always wondered how her life as an (forgive the term) old maid differed from Elizabeth Bennet.
Your videos and examinations have helped me realize why I just love Jane Austen's writing. Her characters are so diverse of personality and experiences and so real. She understood how people are and through this wrote how to look and view the world around us. Her main characters aren't one dimensional or "heroines" but they're real, in that they too struggle through things and have to learn...and recognize that as humans we need to continue to do so. Thank you for your videos!! Additionally just adore your necklace and makeup :)
Our wise and beautiful Regency hostess again delivers sage background and content. Also her necklace is great. I hope she eventually talks more about her first nations heritage.
It's interesting to me that in her last novel Persuasion she passed the lack of perceptiveness off onto Lady Russell - while Anne Elliott reserved her own judgement - just 'knowing' something was up but not entirely sure what. And to answer your last question - nope! I feel sometimes I read Austen to gain a backbone - or to at least try to ferret out some sense of self which would allow me not to give over my entire self on meeting people - which isn't anything the other person asked for but my goodness am I happy to give. Austen's works contain so many examples of her main characters being polite but not giving themselves entirely - I think of it as being self-contained - thoughtful and mindful. I have the habit of being such a 'please like me' person that I seem to lose myself a little bit in social interactions - but that could also be part of being an incurably chatty Libran 😊
This is awesome! I want to use all of these points in my everyday life (not just at the balls), but I especially loved your first point!! But that has got me thinking, it seems like the main characters who go through drastic character growth are the heroines or Mr. Darcy. Could this be one of the reasons we all love him so much... that he mans up to his faults and listens to Lizzy?
I think that's exactly why we love Mr Darcy. Many authors and screenwriters try to recreate him but fail because they focus too much on the "rich guy with bad attitude" part and forget about the "who listens, respects boundaries, and strives to become a better person".
I think this is your best video, in terms of analysis. I think the changes to your upload schedule were a good choice--it allowed you more time to go into depth with close reading. Really great job!
Here is the paradox involving love and reality/appearance: Would Mr. Darcy have known that Elizabeth really loved him if she had been more truthful with her sisters? When Elizabeth reveals that she did not tell her sisters about Mr. Wickham, what could Mr. Darcy have gleaned from the act of concealing the unhappy truth? That in exposing Mr. Wickham she would have also exposed Mr. Darcy to the world's derision? In which case, is the truth (their love) predicated on a lie, meaning the appearance that nothing "entertaining" happened at Kent? There's also this through line in the novel that the truth can only be known indirectly (through appearances). For example, think about how Elizabeth knows that the rumor of her engagement to Darcy exits. It must exist because Lady Catherine went through all the trouble to come see her. Likewise, think about how Lady Catherine seeks out the truth behind the rumor that Elizabeth is engaged to Darcy. She visits Elizabeth and NOT Darcy because (as she claims rather ironically) she does not wish to injure him with lies. It is ironic because Elizabeth does the opposite: she protects Darcy by not being truthful with her sisters.
I've read Jane Austen first as a teen. Yet it took me 4 years of a toxic relationship followed by as long in therapy to lesrn these important lessons 💁♀️
How long was considered normal to marry after meeting in Regency times? If a both feel a mutual attraction, would a courtship request in a month or so occur if you still fancied each other? How long was courtship? Engagements in Austen's stories are 1 or 2 month, (unless they're secret). Would it be bad for your reputation to break up while courting?
The actual courtship period could vary (but a month would not be considered a notably short courtship), then the engagement period was supposed to be no less than a month (while the banns were being read). Long engagements were generally considered unwise. Being jilted during an engagement was extremely damaging to a woman's reputation, so that it would only be done if the guy was a cad or something terrible was revealed about the girl (like sleeping with someone else, family actually being broke, etc.) Unless it was obvious to the world that breaking up with her was justified, the guy's reputation would also take a huge hit for being the one to jilt her. Women were allowed to break off engagements without it being as big a scandal, but it wasn't good for her reputation, and if she did it more than once, she would be considered someone who played around with men's feelings. This is why Edward Ferrars can't break things off with Lucy Steele, but she can dump him in favor of his brother. A serious courtship, where outside observers have begun to assume it will end in marriage is a grey area. That's why we see the very honorable Captain Wentworth realize he is in a pickle when everyone thinks he will marry Louisa. He does his best to lower expectations, but he has to wait until Louisa makes it clear she doesn't plan to marry him until he can declare his own intentions towards Anne. Charles Bingley also falls into this grey area when he leaves without resolving his courtship of Jane, and Frank Churchhill, after he fake flirts with Emma to hide his own secret engagement. In both cases, some people consider that the men have behaved badly, but it's not serious enough to cause actual damage to the otherwise good reputations.
Genuinely excellent video. Probably your best. Which really saying something. Exactly this kind of insight is what delighted me about Jane Austen as a teen 40 years ago, and it is great to see you break it down so well.
Ellie, that was a tour de force. I don't think I've ever seen anything so profound (and important!) on TH-cam before. I take my hat off to you for your perspicacity.
Aside from the video being great (as usual), I'm so pleased to see a correct use of "not to" instead of the "to not" I see too often; it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling ❤️
Was never interested in Jane Austen's works. Not even the dramatized versions. Your channel has demonstrated that I should probably give them a squiz Thank you 🙂
Jane Austen called that particular story Love and Freindship, NOT Love and Friendship (the name Whit Stillman gave the movie adaptation he made based on the novella that had long been known as Lady Susan. That probably doesn't do much to diferentiate, but it's a technicality that became a little bit more important because of his choice of title for his adaptation.)
Thanks to your videos, I understand Austen in a way my professors never taught. You’ve made Regency literature enjoyable. Also, your makeup is flawless!
Among modern romance fiction, stories that take place in Jane Austen's time tend to be *very* formulaic: guy with a title, adorable young woman, one of them is rich and the other is broke, they fall passionately in love, yadda yadda yadda, eventually they're happily, blissfully, married, The End. But Austen was living in the middle of what these much-later writers romanticize, and many of the marriages in her books range from barely tolerable to just horrible. Her main characters tended to end up with the men they loved, but her books usually end with their engagements or weddings. In contrast, Lydia is saddled with Wickham, Mr. Elton marries a rich shrew, Mr. Bennett is married to a dumbbell, etc. Possibly Austen's view of marriage (cynical, or simply clear-eyed?) was a major factor in her never having gone in for it herself.
Two things: 1. I love your necklace. 2. This is quite possibly the best TH-cam Chanel! Thank you so very much for making these videos. They are wonderful and so well researched!
I actually feel a bit better knowing that fictional characters were as stupid as I was. I befriended my now stalker a few years ago… I now very much wish I would have been careful and confident enough to trust my observations early and get away from her in time. But some lessons are unfortunately learned the hard way. I still feel guilty if I give myself time to get to know people. I feel guilty if I don’t like people who seem to like me. It’s a process. To all the other people in their twenties and beyond (and before) who are in the same process of figuring out who to trust - I feel you, it’s not easy, doesn’t feel nice - you’re not alone and you’re not guilty because you got tricked - the person who tricked you is.❤
Some of the best life advice ever.-Worthwhile conversation.❤️ I understand much more clearly why Anne Elliot has been my favorite Jane Austen heroine, but I am ashamed to say I have lived my life to this point much more like a Catherine Morland. …Hmmm, maybe that’s why Northanger Abbey was always my least favorite of Austen’s books…🙃 No time like the present to self-reflect and choose to be different!
what's interesting about lizzie and darcy is, lizzie's prejudice springs from pride -- her injured pride when darcy calls her tolerable and won't dance with her makes her prejudiced against him (and partial to anyone who criticises him, which leaves her vulnerable to wickham's manipulations). And darcy's pride springs from his prejudice (he assumes nobody at the assembly is worthy to stand up with, because of their station, and so comes off as / is proud; later on he proves he has fixed this flaw in his thinking by being nice to the gardners).
My teacher for humanities in my junior year had us read pride and prejudice it was a treat. And he refered to wickam as the rascally wickham but with a lisp "wascally wickham". It was the best class i ever took. I was also the leader of the "rag on mr darcy" club.
Jane Austen really does seem to have had a grasp of social observation and human nature that often is still applicable to the present day. Side note: has anyone ever told you, that you resemble the actress Amy Acker? Like I thought you were her the first time I saw your content.
I’m so glad some appreciates it! 😂 I spend way too much time on my end screen music selection and then am like, “No one is listening to this anyway!” 😂
It's intresting when I first saw the movie Wichman seemed charming and a good friend granted I was 12 but that character can deceive you. I agree we all been Henry and Elizabeth in certain situation good analysis
Stage 2, "knowing who to trust," can only come into play if there is a person in your environment who communicates the message "do not fall for this person," because without such a third person, there is no conflict of opinion to choose from, no opportunity to place trust elsewhere than in the manipulator. Thus the opportunity to use stage 2 depends on factors outside one's own abilities, namely, the happenstance of there being a person who has either a backstory with the manipulator, or an unbiased judgment of the manipulator, who is also part of your current circle of acquaintances. In Mansfield Park, Fanny could be an alternative source of trust for Edmund to rely on about Mary Crawford, but Fanny never speaks to him about Mary. I suspect she was wise in this, because Edmund had not yet learned to respect Fanny enough to rely on her opinion, and would have rejected her observations. In Pride & Prejudice, Mr. Bingley was an alternative source of trust about Wickham, and Jane has the wisdom to recognize this, but Elizabeth, having been offended by Darcy and looking for reasons to dislike him, rejects this. Elizabeth's rejection is made somewhat reasonable because Bingley does not know the details of Wickham's misconduct towards both Darcy and his sister, and thus, does not have much of substance to cite. In Emma, Mr. Knightley was an alternative source of trust about Churchill, and about Elton, and about Harriet Smith herself, and he has solid substance for his opinion on all three, but Emma rejects him on all three persons, mostly because it would discredit her own imaginings about them. Emma's willfulness stems from immaturity - not from bad character. In Sense and Sensibility, Brandon could be an alternative source of trust about Willoughby, but not soon enough. Marianne committed to Willoughby before Brandon had solid evidence against Willoughby. Marianne should have relied on Elinor's advice to "go to stage 3, give it time," but was too impulsive to abide by this counsel. In Persuasion, Anne's schoolmate Mrs. Smith is an alternative source of trust about Mr. Elliot, and she presents her evidence convincingly, and Anne relies on it. Anne is able to benefit from this because she has already applied "stage 3, give it time." In Northanger Abbey, I don't think this issue really comes up. Catherine herself is not the target of manipulation by anyone, other than the carriage-ride with John Thorpe (a small incident in social life) and by Isabella, who is seeking no more than Catherine's siding with her in persuading Catherine's brother to marry her. On a side-note to this, I have never thought Tilney's chastisement of Catherine about fantasizing Abbey-horrors was fair, because he himself, with his joking nature, had predisposed her towards it. He already knew she was young, and this was her first trip away from home, and she enjoyed the escapism of horror-novels, before he joked about the Abbey containing horrors. He should have apologized to her instead of reprimanded her. Stage 3, give it time, is something that the manipulator can try to cut-off, by presenting some circumstances or issues that basically say "choose me now or lose me forever." This latter point was one that women of Austen's time were particularly vulnerable to, given that marriage was the only way to a decent sustainable life. In summary, to use your observations requires the luck of having a person in our lives who can provide the alternative view (stage 2) and we have to be prepared to drop a person if circumstances do not permit us the time to make a better assessment (stage 3).
YOU are awesome, and as Mr. Darcy asks; I hope (you and) your family are in good health. I connect more with Anne Elliot because she takes time for evaluation - that was an excellent point. I also think that because she suffered long-term from not listening to her heart regarding Captain Wentworth, she is careful in deciding things for herself.
It's interesting how much we've managed to grow past the "one mistake is the end of everything" mentality. Oh, can I ask here, in Mansfield Park, the result of the affair is Mrs.R is isolated in a small house in another "country", should we read this as the modern "county"?
It’s the third day in a row I am watching this channel and I cannot bring myself to watch anything else. I have always been fascinated by 19th century culture traditions and novels and now I am at work listening to this which is the best❤
Something I’ve always wondered about. If Wickham had run off with some other woman that wasn’t connected to the Bennet family…would Mr. Darcy still feel so responsible for the girl? Would he have found them and forced the marriage? My overall thought is yes but he probably wouldn’t have spent 10k…he did that so he’d be able to marry Lizzie if she ever changed her feelings for him. But he does feel responsible for Wickham in general independent of that I think
I think he feels responsible largely because he did not make public the kind of man Wickham was when he tried to elope with Georgiana. Darcy kept it private to spare embarrassment to his sister, but that allowed Wickham to be free to try that on with other vulnerable women. When it happened to Lydia, he felt guilty and responsible. I don't think he felt responsible for Wickham in any other sense.
Hi Ellie! I’m currently watching Bridgerton and I was wondering what is the difference between the clothing that a lady is allowed to wear before and after coming out in society?
Jane Austen is giving perfect examples of what confirmation bias is . confirmation bias is when you. interpret everything according to your preconceived notions.
The lesson is in the title. Review your prejudices and how your pride guide (or misguide) your actions. An honest view is hard, but worth it. Loved your analysis.
Moral of the Story: Jane Austen gave us manuals on how to avoid toxic relationships which people think is adventurous but leaves you traumatised actually.
This. Exactly this!
Yes! Rakes seems like fun; but they just leave boring, big messes in their wake.
Then Hollywood romanticized toxic relationships
The interesting thing about this suggestion is that I find my own instincts are generally more trustworthy than those of people around me, which is the opposite to what Ellie is suggesting Jane Austen is saying.
Yeah, and it's evident in all her books, except in the case of Mansfield Park half the messed up girls who read it go, "like, ohmagawd Crawford wasn't that bad, Fanny could have fixed him; how dare she marry a stable clergyman she's loved since childhood instead of the guy who slept with her married cousin!" 😆 Also some sense and sensibility fans think Marianne should have married Willoughby. Facepalm. I hate this planet.
Jane Austen is such a great observer of human nature, that's what makes her novels so excellent.
So true! It’s amazing the depth and complexity at which she examines human character!
That, and her sure grasp of human values.
and timeless
Ellie Dashwood, smiling: "Keep having an awesome day, because you're awesome!"
Me, eyes narrowing: this lady is too generally agreeable. Not sure I should trust her
😏 Muahahahahaha 😂😂😂
🤣🤣
Touché 😅
we should just give us some time if we wished to marry her! right?
Well, you haven't even spent a fortnight in the same house, you could hardly claim to be sufficiently aquainted.
People seem to think that these novels are quiet and proper, but they are *juicy* under all the etiquette.
Hell yeah, Jane had it going ✨
This is great content!!!!!! I almost married a Wickham 2y ago. It took me 6months to see what grave mistake I was heading for and end the engagement. He played my weakness (loneliness, bad mental health and pride) and I was only looking at the things I wanted to see in him. Time was crucial! He showed his true colors and I finally confronted my own blindness. Now I'm in a journey to forgive myself for my stupidity! (And I'm in better place regarding my mental health)
Thank God you saw where things were headed and had the courage to end it.
yyyep me too. These are all such good lessons for life! If only I had been paying attention when I read Jane Austin as a teen, but at the time I thought her characters were kind of exaggerated.
I see this stuff as patterns showing up for us to clear from within us… the Wickam showing us more clearly what the pattern is and that it exists in us… once we clear it, then we shift our attraction to a whole new and better level.
The Ho’oponopono making right tool is very useful in these cases. I think the ideas of Abraham Hicks talks also give good insights towards clearing the scoundrel attractions out of our lives.
Best of everything to you!
You are not stupid period, especially not for falling for him. I hope you're overcoming your struggles, whatever they are! I know from personal experience that loneliness and mental health concerns can exacerbate my own worst tendecies and blind me to reality in ways I'm not always aware of. I hope you're gentle and kind to yourself - this is a success story after all!
There's a reason people say you should live together for at least half a year before marrying, and it's probably things like this...
It's great that you avoided the perils of evil shitbags, and I bid you luck in your... future engagements... (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)
I wonder if that’s why Austen resonates with young women at that point of life where they are finding out about themselves and others (and their motives).
It’s all a part of growing up: who do we trust? How well do we know ourselves?
It’s so interesting comparing reading Austen as a 20 year old and reading Austen now at 50…
Interesting thought. I certainly began to prefer Persuasion as I got older, and appreciated how Anne had her stuff together.
I got married to a scandalous person who divorced me because I stopped allowing him to misuse my money...I have two kids..and believe me it was a horrible experience..I was deceived by his appearance and I was so open to him that he knew my faults. Also, I didn't give myself enough time to well judge his character....Thanks a lot for this amazing video 🌷
I was a sheltered and traumatized young woman who fell in love with a "Knight in shining armour". Too bad I had to learn the hard way he was hiding some very dull qualities underneath all that shine. I still haven't recovered after five years.
Very sorry for you 😢@pinstripesuitandheels
I think you just did more in 25 minutes to help me get over my ex boyfriend than years of therapy have. And I think I owe all my friends (the ones I should have been listening to) an apology. 🤣 He is one of Austen's charming scoundrels. How did I never see this in the three years together and the year and a half since we broke up?!? I need to not talk to him. (Duh! 🤦♀️)
Is it safe to say that Jane Austen invented self-help books dealing with cognitive dissonance through interesting narratives? I could be wrong.
it's a weird kind of Conduct Book.
She also shows us how to spot a self serving narcissist
She did exactly that.
You're not wrong except generally self-help books are filled with BS and Jane's really aren't. She invented the good sort of self-help books.
All that AND really valuable warnings about logical fallacies, particularly confirmation bias!
When I saw the title, I thought to myself: “Where was this when I was making bad decisions?” 😂
😂😂😂
oh mood, 19yo me needed to watch this video xD
Some things never change.
I'm dating right now and it's a nightmare.
I'd say that by now, I have fairly well working 'bullshit detectors', but they're rather the result of lots of trial and error.
To imagine, that one misstep, one case of trusting the wrong guy too early could ruin my whole life, rather then being just a disappointing experience...makes me grateful, I live when and where I live.
For sure
Thank god for feminism, and for divorce.
And this is why she is still a relevant author.
Jane Austin and Leo Tolstoy both helped me to avoid charming scoundrels and to arrive in a happy, stable marriage. It was interesting watching the scoundrels' characters being illuminated over time and seeing the traces of the bullets that I had dodged from not getting involved with such people, both male romantic partners and potential female false friends. It has been grieving to note the trail of destruction that several of these people left in their wakes, but I'm grateful that I was not caught in the direct path of their negative choices.
funny thing, I wrote about those very same two authors :)
Funny you say that because IRL Tolstoy was a terrible husband
@@tessiya6199He certainly knows how to get inside the head of rakes like Vronski and Stiva Oblonsky. He shows us the self-deception of all of his male characters who all certainly put their wives and love interests through hell.
So profoundly terrible. I will never forgive him, not that he’ll ever know or care.
I think one of the reasons that Anne knows the value of investing time is that unlike all of our other point-of-view characters, she's already had a good amount of it. She's had a decade or so (assuming she came out ~16-18 as most girls did) of living in the world as an adult and observing people. Her social circle isn't especially large so she's probably made a lot of observations of the same people over a stretch of multiple years. And as an internally focused character she's probably done a lot of contemplation about how people do and don't change and the nuances of different kinds of characters.
This is a fascinating video! I've been studying narcissism and narcissistic abuse and I I'm intrigued by the idea of not being able to recognize someone's deceit because of lack of experience. If you're an honest person and you were sheltered from dishonest people, one's own honesty will make it almost impossible to believe someone could be dishonest.
It's a super insidious problem! Tough personal experience suggests that if you're a generous-hearted person with really strong personal ethics, realizing that some people seem to basically base their actions purely on self-interest is really hard to get your head around IRL even if you're theoretically familiar with it in works like Ms Austen's? Being strongly empathetic doesn't seem to help much either - one is still too prone to interpret the person's behaviour in the best light possible! 😔 Encountering real covert narcissists is a very steep learning curve... they seem to pretty good at putting up a shiny front until you've seen them in extended destructive action over time. Super scary stuff!! 😬
@ArielKlay are you aware of HG Tudor? He has a unique perspective on Narcissism, being one himself.
A very relatable video showing how Austen draws clever inspiration from real people.
If you're surrounded with fake, deceitful people, does it make you the same as them? Especially if you have no choice but to interact with them i.e. they're your colleagues, parents? How do you escape such a trifling situation?
@@liezl2759 I wouldn't call it 'trifling' . 😂
This video is such a good example of how media analysis and understanding the themes of a piece of fiction can teach you something irl. As someone who always feels kind of naive and over-trusting in new social situations, I actually learned a lot from this video about how to better judge ppl's character. There's something really... freeing, maybe? About the distance that analyzing literature gives you, while also feeling true to life. Like, it feels a little silly saying that I learned a few new things about social interactions from a Jane Austen analysis, but it's also safer than living through making the mistakes myself. Which makes it feel less silly.
I'm exactly the same! I find it hard in social situations and this video definitely taught me a lot about life and how to navigate relationships with othes and social situations.
I know it sounds crazy: but i watch trash TV bc they teach me human Interactions (mostly the Bad ones) and what and whom to avoid.
It's not silly at all. This is part of why many authors write the stories they do - to help us understand human nature. I bet JA would've been stoked to know that her novels helped you navigate human relationships! And how great is Ellie Dashwood's analysis? 👏🏆
@@kittyr6534 thank you for the validation 😭
Also excellent point, fiction is never 100% divorced from real life, I need to remember that more lol
Learning from the mistakes of others is one of the wisest things you can do. The people don't even have to be real!
If this video was “How to Marry Mr Wickham”, it would be one second long. It would also just be a black screen with ‘HAVE MONEY’ right in the middle in a huge font.
He doesn’t ask much does he? 😂😂😂😂
@@EllieDashwood You should make that video as a companion piece, just for our entertainment! Shouldn't take long, right? 🤣🤣🤣
😅
One of the best pieces of advice in this, that I will definitely echo, is take your time. If they are truly in love with you they will be fine going at a slower pace. Nobody can hide their true character forever so, ladies, take your time! I was with my boyfriend for 6 years before we got married and had kids! It was worth the wait to get a genuine person.
This is all great advice. 3 reminded me of a job I once had. The time came for my 100 day review and someone told me that when I first started nobody thought I'd last because I didn't talk much (they had $20.00 on two weeks BTW). I told her it was because I was listening, people will show themselves if you just let them talk enough, and that's how I knew who I could trust and who to keep an eye on. She looked at me like wowed.
This is a real public service, Ellie! I wished I'd learned and incorporated these lessons before I married a narcissist. Buyer, beware...what have you sold yourself on?
A good way to ascertain Wickam's true character is to ask him. As long as you're not a threat to his designs he will freely admit that he has no morals. It depends on the setting how forthright Wickam will be. I've come across sociopaths here and there. Most of them freely admit that they take advantage people. Personally, if someone tells me they have no morals I believe them, and I watch out for them.
Really interesting video!
In Northanger Abbey, there is also the ‘irony’ (or just genuine life lesson) of Catherine knowing all about gothic horror evil, whilst being very naive to the evil that hides in polite society (the Thorpes, General Tilney).
unfortunately i married a scoundrel, got rid of him but got a fantastic daughter out of the relationship, so it's win. love your videos!
yes! I wouldn´t get my nephew if everybody tried to avoid scoundrels, too :))
congratulations :)
Simple yet so deep. I study toxic relationships and really research ways to prevent people from getting in them, but I've never heard such precise tips. Really this is gold right here
Regarding Step 3, giving oneself enough time to judge, and analyzing one's own character, I imagine trying to get Lydia to do this. Literally rolling on the floor laughing!
Yes - because she hasn’t spent even one second on step one! 😁
There was this one guy I liked in my class. We were friendly with each other but weren't in the same friend group, so we never spend that much time together. When I talked to the girls in that friend group about him, they said that he wants to appear as a nice and caring guy, but in many instances he didn't do what he promised to do or he wasn't sincere and kept his life very private, even tho they were friends for 3-4 years. I didn't take these seriously, as I was blinded by my feelings for him, but I should have known better. I should have trusted the people who knew him for a longer time. They were my friends too and I knew them longer than him. They were honest and didn't want to hurt me nor him. One day, I was talking to him about my life and such and I expected him to do the same. I believed that he would be as open as I am. The next day, I discovered that he has a girlfriend, whom he didn't mention at all the day before. I was shocked and angry at him for not telling me such a big change in his life. I thought we were friends, and friends share these things with each other, don't they? Now, that I am older, I got to realise that not all people in my life are the same as me, and that I should be more picky with who I open my heart to.
Usually, we see you in pinks and pastels and I love how you’ve changed up your look to more darker tones. It’s a nice look on you 👏🏽
I have been watching your channel quite awhile. This is my favorite episode. A good argument we’ll-founded with quotes from many Austen works. And it made me take a more critical look at myself, with some discomfort. Bravo!!
Aw! Thank you so much!!! It made me take a critical look at myself too. And I’m pretty sure I do all the things Jane is saying not to do. 🤦🏻♀️😂
The same could also be said for Mr. Darcy he also lived in his own realty he thought Elizabeth liked him when actually she didn't like him at all.
Or, at least, he didn't realize just how much she disliked him. He was taken in by both her excellent manners (hiding her true feelings) & his own pride in himself/his position
@@SafetySpooon Agreed. I don't think Darcy thought that Elizabeth actually returned his feelings. He just didn't realize she actively disliked him and also assumed he was such a good catch that Elizabeth would obviously say yes. (Paralleling Mr Collins' proposal, which is also focused on HIS feelings, with it being a given that she will accept)
He could actually have thought that she actively liked him. They have some darn good banter that he could easily have read as deliberate flirting. For instance, in that scene at the piano, even when she is teasing him Elizabeth smiles and Mr. Darcy is described as smiling at least 3 times (which he is rarely described as doing when conversing with other people). I can see him walking away from that going: "That was fun! Maybe I'm getting better at this relating-to-people thing!"
I think under Lizzie's dislike was a good deal of liking which she did not consciously admit to herself. That, Darcy might have unconsciously registered. But on the whole, I agree with StarryEyed0590 that he didn't think she would reject him however she felt about him.
That's Mr. Collins who still convinced himself Lizzie was playing hard to get after multiple nos. I don't think Mr. Darcy necessarily thought she "liked" him but more that he thought she would accept him because of his status and wealth and her own limited options and family situation. Even if he partly thought she liked him, it wasn't completely delusional because they had quiet a bit of banter that could be construed as flirty banter.
Many of us have relationships or marriages with scoundrels in our youth. Hopefully to learn from our mistakes and move on to better choices.
Fortunately, mistakes in our modern era are more easily fixed than in the early 19th century, even if they still cause heartbreak. I'm glad you have been able to move on!
At least these days we don't need to be stuck with our mistakes.
I am still recovering from one of my bad choices.
After three years of relationship he cast me aside as fast and as convenient as possible, because I no longer fit what he was looking for.
I had relied on him financially and he cut that of from one day to the other. At the same time wanted me to move out as fast as possible, while he had already moved in with his new girlfriend. And then he held back my 12.000€ in stocks on his depot so he could pressure me into moving out and even moving my furniture into a furniture storehouse because I had no permanent place to stay.
What a scoundrel. Cold to the heart, pathetic, pitiful.
I hope and pray that he reaps what he sows.
Now I don’t trust my judgment anymore and cannot rely on anyone that much anymore. I take care of myself.
Maybe over the years someone in my life will become a person, I can be relaxed around, take confidence in and get comfort, and overall support each other and have each other’s.
But otherwise I love myself and am fine.
@@Imilana_da_Rodin The girl he cheated on you with will probably cheat on him... Good for you to get independent emotionally and financially. If someone great comes along, Great! But you don't want to date in a state of desperation. You deserve better. And living single is fine, too. Nurture your friend group. Cats and chihuahuas are also fine companions.
😻🐕
I'm not sure that Mr Collins really does think that Charlotte is his perfect partner. Mr Collins knows what he ought to feel about Charlotte, Lizzie (when he proposes to her), Lady Catherine, Rosings and its expensive windows, Lydia going of with Wickham, and everybody and everything. He has probably learnt this knowledge out of books. He does not, however, appear to have any genuine feelings at all. Even rendering Charlotte pregnant is, perhaps, only what he considered he ought to do.
This video actually helped me forgive myself for some errors of judgment I've made recently. Lizzie and Emma and Catherine have their weaknesses of character, and I have my own. Nothing to do about it but reflect and move on. Thanks for the insight, Ellie :)
Jane Austen's advices on how to avoid toxic people😂
😂😂😂
What do you think about exploring Jane Austen’s views of female friendship and sisterhood? The Bennet, Elliot and Dashwood sisters show a lot of different examples
I know Mr. Collins is annoying and stuff, but he does get bashed a lot for no reason. Unlike Wickham or other scoundrels, Collins isn't able to lie or hide his feelings. He's overall a shallow kind of person, who respects wealth and "stuff", but that doesn't necessarily make him a BAD person. Since Charlotte was so desperate as to approve of his proposal, I do have a hope in my "this is how things turn out in the future" scenario that she and Mr. Collins learned to be happy together, instead of her trying to avoid him all the time. I know Charlotte is working to "improve" his worse impulses, like declaring every random and potentially unflattering thought in his head out loud. So, it's my hope that she's successful one day and he gets less annoying and she learns to appreciate that he's really not that bad of a person. But still, better her than me. I wouldn't want to marry Mr. Collins. I'd rather be an old maid. haha
can you imagine to raise his kids.... What if they all are that stupid! Poor Charlotte, she´s too clever a person - that´s a problem :(
@@panchitaobrian1660 With Charlotte as a mom, I'm sure the kids would be quite sensible.
You might want to read The Clergyman's Wife by Molly Greeley. It's an Austen fan fiction novel about what happened with Charlotte and Mr. C. I really enjoyed it. (Spoiler Alert -- she's reasonably content, which is all Charlotte really wanted.)
@@debbiericker8223 Thanks for the recommendation! You might enjoy The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hadlow. It really gives life to Mary's character and for most of the book, makes me want to just give her a hug. She gets happiness by the end.
@@crazybiogeek I've heard of that and plan to get a copy. There is a scene near the end of the old 1940s film version of P&P where Mary is playing piano with an admiring young man behind her. I can't remember if he's playing a flute or a violin or what, but he's clearly her beau. That scene is just about the only thing I like about that particular film adaptation, lol!
I read Charles Dickens’ David Copperfield for the first time as a teen and was horrified by Uriah Heep, and for many years he epitomized the classic villain in my mind.
My mother read David Copperfield on my recommendation when she was in her mid to late forties. She was horrified by Steerforth and ranted about him at length when we discussed it afterwards. I didn’t understand her reaction. I mean, Steerforth made bad choices and hurt people, but surely it was nothing more than youthful indiscretion.
I recently reread David Copperfield after not having done so for many years. I would like to say that I get it now that I’m… more mature. Steerforth was all of the things you described in this video, and more. He used people for his own gratification and then flung them aside when he’d gotten all he could out of them. Truly a charming and unprincipled rake.
Thank you for the video. I quite enjoyed it.
This was such a perfect video that I needed right now. Didn't expect such deep self reflection from a video called "How to not Marry Wickham." Thanks so much to you and our glorious Ms Austen
5:14 When I saw that moment in ‘Sense and Sensibility’ (1995) where Emma Thompson as Elinor goes “Oh, Good God!” when she learns the truth kind of encapsulates Willoughby’s deeds.
This is such a wonderful and thoughtful examination of Jane Austin’s writing. It shows how well she understood human nature, and you’ve done an amazing job of studying and explaining the nuances of her writing. Fantastic video! (And also, I love your necklace. :-)
I’m just happy to see a new video from this channel. I hope you’re doing better, E. We want to see you healthy, wealthy and wise.
That’s so sweet! I am feeling a lot better! 😃
@@EllieDashwood Happy to hear that!
Don't you just love how relevant this constructed reality thing still is?
To be fair to Elizabeth Bennett, both Wickham and Darcy were really good at hiding their true natures.
haha, so true! :)
This is what I find so terrifying about many narcissists... The "loud & proud" egotist is easily detectable and avoidable, but the more covertly self-centered person (borderline sociopaths perhaps?) are often very, very good at putting up a positive front and talking a good game. As point #3 highlights, it seems like really the only way to spot them is to give any new acquaintance or colleague plenty of time, carefully observing their behaviour....? And just hope like heck they don't rip you off, backstab or assault you in the meantime!! 😬 Truly one of the scariest things about human nature to me - even if you have finely tuned BS detectors these people can slip past them for significant periods of time, because they are very practiced manipulators....
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166
And this is where gossip is helpful, kinda like an early version of a background check.
@@sophieruby9135 Hmm... possibly, although the country gossip Jane Austen rather sarcastically describes in P&P seems to have been a bit of a mixed bag? 😄 Word of Darcy's fortune got around in Netherton super-fast, but Wickham's misbehaviour & debt all round the town didn't seem to get out until after he'd already fled the scene... One suspects perhaps his friends like Cpt. Denny were helping try and keep things on the down-low, up until it finally just got too bad to hush up!
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166
So true.
This got me thinking about Fanny Price, and the Dashwood sisters. What are their distorted views of the world? Marianne's is obviously related to excessive sensibility and an overly romantic view of the world that doesn't account for loving more than one person. Fanny's stems from a lack of self-confidence and that - as JA herself suggested - would've led to eventually marrying HC and being miserable. Elinor... is harder to pinpoint. In some ways she's both too sensible and also not observant enough.
Curious to know your opinion, Ellie.
Elinor's blindness is to seeing when an otherwise sensible person might be carried away by their emotions.
Well, she’s shocked about Edward’s past with Lucy, upon first hearing it from Lucy. She’s in disbelief and can’t reconcile his behavior with her (Elinor) with his behavior with Lucy; she fails to see that she missed signs (from Fanny, from Edward himself) that she might be investing too much in his sincerity or attentions. She’s initially too trusting of Lucy as well, allowing Lucy to get away with the the ‘sweet’ impression she tries to convey. Later she does some self-reflection and figures out who to trust. And when she lets Marianne know how she has kept feelings to herself, we see that she has dwelt on it a bit and begins to ‘reconcile.’
At least those are my thoughts.
Fanny was never going to marry Henry Crawford. Not by a long shot. Only the 1999 movie had suggested she was willing to marry him for a brief period. I think Fanny's real flaw was her hypocrisy and willingness to judge others without being capable of any real self-reflection.
@@juanitajones6900 no, sadly Austen flat out says Fanny would have married Henry eventually if Edmund married Mary. Honestly, if she couldn't have Edmund, I personally think she'd have been happier with Tom Bertram than Henry who would have made her miserable.
Fanny sees through Henry and Mary Crawford right away, and maintains her view of them even in the face of Sir Thomas's displeasure and her exile. She sees Edmund's infatuation with Mary as not being true to himself. Her only flaw in perception seems to be the belief that she is not worthy of anyone's favorable attention, which over time might have endangered her, had Edmund actually married Mary, and she had continued in her relationship with Henry. Henry did everyone a favor by running off with Maria. Fanny, Edmund, and Mr. Rushworth were all better off in the end.
So many good ideas in this, not only relating to love but also in every aspect of life, really. It is important, to not loose the connection between one’s view of life and reality of other people around, “bubble” etc.
That’s such a good point! It’s amazing how the issues Jane Austen examined over two hundred years ago are still the same ones we deal with today. 🧐
Being a man who is normally too cautious when it comes to heart matters you would think that I might escape similar mistakes, however for a long time I was a bit of a sucker for women who were overly emotionally needy. Since I've become aware of that tendency I've successfully avoided being lured in by any more similar women so far.
Great video again, Eliie! You deserve all your success because you're awesome!
what´s wrong with emotionally needy women? :) Do you now prefer emotionally cold and indifferent?
@@panchitaobrian1660 There is a balance. An emotionally needy woman, is an unsecure woman. Same with men who are emotionally needy.
That was an excellent and fascinating analysis of such an important issue: Perception vs reality. Have you considered presenting this as a master’s or Ph.D thesis topic? It is an important academic subject - superb job!!!
Ellie this is an excellent analysis of application from classic literature! This is one reason why people need to read classics like Austin. Imagine if they taught this in schools with this depth? It could save so many from ruining their lives. This made me examine myself and realize some changes I need to make. Thanks!
Can you do a few videos on Sense and Sensibility? I feel like everyone is always hype on Pride and Prejudice and the other fun, popular reads, I hardly see any commentary videos on Sense and Sensibility and it's such a good book! I think it's more on human nature with less comedy but it's still great! Please do some videos on it!
Ngl I am a magnet for toxic men waving red flags and have recently learnt to deal with men who could be green flags. You know you’ve dealt with a lot when you don’t know how to deal with guy who has green flags. The toxicity is both real and unreal.
Kept waiting for the sly insertion of the "like this video" plug. 😂 "Anne Elliot did not rush into liking Mr. Elliot, but one thing she did like was this video." Or " So how do you avoid liking a Mr. Wickham? Well one thing you must do to avoid this is to like this video."
Anne Elliott has always been my favourite heroine. She is older then the others and in some ways wiser. But I have always wondered how her life as an (forgive the term) old maid differed from Elizabeth Bennet.
Your videos and examinations have helped me realize why I just love Jane Austen's writing. Her characters are so diverse of personality and experiences and so real. She understood how people are and through this wrote how to look and view the world around us. Her main characters aren't one dimensional or "heroines" but they're real, in that they too struggle through things and have to learn...and recognize that as humans we need to continue to do so.
Thank you for your videos!! Additionally just adore your necklace and makeup :)
Our wise and beautiful Regency hostess again delivers sage background and content. Also her necklace is great. I hope she eventually talks more about her first nations heritage.
YOU are awesome! Your input on Jane Austen’s work has truly helped me understand it better. Awesome job!!
I guess that explains why Anne Elliott has always been my favorite :)
It's interesting to me that in her last novel Persuasion she passed the lack of perceptiveness off onto Lady Russell - while Anne Elliott reserved her own judgement - just 'knowing' something was up but not entirely sure what.
And to answer your last question - nope! I feel sometimes I read Austen to gain a backbone - or to at least try to ferret out some sense of self which would allow me not to give over my entire self on meeting people - which isn't anything the other person asked for but my goodness am I happy to give. Austen's works contain so many examples of her main characters being polite but not giving themselves entirely - I think of it as being self-contained - thoughtful and mindful. I have the habit of being such a 'please like me' person that I seem to lose myself a little bit in social interactions - but that could also be part of being an incurably chatty Libran 😊
This is awesome! I want to use all of these points in my everyday life (not just at the balls), but I especially loved your first point!! But that has got me thinking, it seems like the main characters who go through drastic character growth are the heroines or Mr. Darcy. Could this be one of the reasons we all love him so much... that he mans up to his faults and listens to Lizzy?
I think that's exactly why we love Mr Darcy. Many authors and screenwriters try to recreate him but fail because they focus too much on the "rich guy with bad attitude" part and forget about the "who listens, respects boundaries, and strives to become a better person".
This is a great lens to look at Persuasion with. Anne mostly has her head on straight but everyone else...
I also think someone who was truthful, not manipulative and a good person would like this video! Cause it’s amazing!
I think this is your best video, in terms of analysis. I think the changes to your upload schedule were a good choice--it allowed you more time to go into depth with close reading. Really great job!
Glad to see your feeling better. Love your videos
Aw, thank you so much!!!
Here is the paradox involving love and reality/appearance: Would Mr. Darcy have known that Elizabeth really loved him if she had been more truthful with her sisters? When Elizabeth reveals that she did not tell her sisters about Mr. Wickham, what could Mr. Darcy have gleaned from the act of concealing the unhappy truth? That in exposing Mr. Wickham she would have also exposed Mr. Darcy to the world's derision? In which case, is the truth (their love) predicated on a lie, meaning the appearance that nothing "entertaining" happened at Kent?
There's also this through line in the novel that the truth can only be known indirectly (through appearances). For example, think about how Elizabeth knows that the rumor of her engagement to Darcy exits. It must exist because Lady Catherine went through all the trouble to come see her. Likewise, think about how Lady Catherine seeks out the truth behind the rumor that Elizabeth is engaged to Darcy. She visits Elizabeth and NOT Darcy because (as she claims rather ironically) she does not wish to injure him with lies. It is ironic because Elizabeth does the opposite: she protects Darcy by not being truthful with her sisters.
I know this is besides the point, but I'm totally amazed how the eye shadow matches the petals in the background.
I've read Jane Austen first as a teen. Yet it took me 4 years of a toxic relationship followed by as long in therapy to lesrn these important lessons 💁♀️
How long was considered normal to marry after meeting in Regency times? If a both feel a mutual attraction, would a courtship request in a month or so occur if you still fancied each other? How long was courtship? Engagements in Austen's stories are 1 or 2 month, (unless they're secret). Would it be bad for your reputation to break up while courting?
well, Edward couldn´t break up with Lucy :(
@@panchitaobrian1660 though, he was probably more concerned with protecting *her* reputation, and doing the honorable thing.
The actual courtship period could vary (but a month would not be considered a notably short courtship), then the engagement period was supposed to be no less than a month (while the banns were being read). Long engagements were generally considered unwise.
Being jilted during an engagement was extremely damaging to a woman's reputation, so that it would only be done if the guy was a cad or something terrible was revealed about the girl (like sleeping with someone else, family actually being broke, etc.) Unless it was obvious to the world that breaking up with her was justified, the guy's reputation would also take a huge hit for being the one to jilt her. Women were allowed to break off engagements without it being as big a scandal, but it wasn't good for her reputation, and if she did it more than once, she would be considered someone who played around with men's feelings. This is why Edward Ferrars can't break things off with Lucy Steele, but she can dump him in favor of his brother.
A serious courtship, where outside observers have begun to assume it will end in marriage is a grey area. That's why we see the very honorable Captain Wentworth realize he is in a pickle when everyone thinks he will marry Louisa. He does his best to lower expectations, but he has to wait until Louisa makes it clear she doesn't plan to marry him until he can declare his own intentions towards Anne. Charles Bingley also falls into this grey area when he leaves without resolving his courtship of Jane, and Frank Churchhill, after he fake flirts with Emma to hide his own secret engagement. In both cases, some people consider that the men have behaved badly, but it's not serious enough to cause actual damage to the otherwise good reputations.
Genuinely excellent video. Probably your best. Which really saying something. Exactly this kind of insight is what delighted me about Jane Austen as a teen 40 years ago, and it is great to see you break it down so well.
Very deep thoughts that are timeless, I think at some level we all follow our heart for better or worse.
Ellie, that was a tour de force. I don't think I've ever seen anything so profound (and important!) on TH-cam before. I take my hat off to you for your perspicacity.
Aside from the video being great (as usual), I'm so pleased to see a correct use of "not to" instead of the "to not" I see too often; it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling ❤️
Was never interested in Jane Austen's works. Not even the dramatized versions.
Your channel has demonstrated that I should probably give them a squiz
Thank you 🙂
Jane Austen called that particular story Love and Freindship, NOT Love and Friendship (the name Whit Stillman gave the movie adaptation he made based on the novella that had long been known as Lady Susan. That probably doesn't do much to diferentiate, but it's a technicality that became a little bit more important because of his choice of title for his adaptation.)
Thanks to your videos, I understand Austen in a way my professors never taught. You’ve made Regency literature enjoyable.
Also, your makeup is flawless!
Among modern romance fiction, stories that take place in Jane Austen's time tend to be *very* formulaic: guy with a title, adorable young woman, one of them is rich and the other is broke, they fall passionately in love, yadda yadda yadda, eventually they're happily, blissfully, married, The End.
But Austen was living in the middle of what these much-later writers romanticize, and many of the marriages in her books range from barely tolerable to just horrible. Her main characters tended to end up with the men they loved, but her books usually end with their engagements or weddings. In contrast, Lydia is saddled with Wickham, Mr. Elton marries a rich shrew, Mr. Bennett is married to a dumbbell, etc. Possibly Austen's view of marriage (cynical, or simply clear-eyed?) was a major factor in her never having gone in for it herself.
I thought the answer was going to be ' listen to gossip'. Hahahaha, I am looking at you, Mrs. Nurse Rooke! ( Persuasion)
Two things: 1. I love your necklace. 2. This is quite possibly the best TH-cam Chanel! Thank you so very much for making these videos. They are wonderful and so well researched!
Awww! Thank you so much!!!! 💖
I wish that I had been an Austen devotée when I encountered my scoundrel. Oh well; it was a learning experience.
I actually feel a bit better knowing that fictional characters were as stupid as I was.
I befriended my now stalker a few years ago… I now very much wish I would have been careful and confident enough to trust my observations early and get away from her in time. But some lessons are unfortunately learned the hard way.
I still feel guilty if I give myself time to get to know people. I feel guilty if I don’t like people who seem to like me. It’s a process.
To all the other people in their twenties and beyond (and before) who are in the same process of figuring out who to trust - I feel you, it’s not easy, doesn’t feel nice - you’re not alone and you’re not guilty because you got tricked - the person who tricked you is.❤
Some of the best life advice ever.-Worthwhile conversation.❤️ I understand much more clearly why Anne Elliot has been my favorite Jane Austen heroine, but I am ashamed to say I have lived my life to this point much more like a Catherine Morland. …Hmmm, maybe that’s why Northanger Abbey was always my least favorite of Austen’s books…🙃 No time like the present to self-reflect and choose to be different!
what's interesting about lizzie and darcy is, lizzie's prejudice springs from pride -- her injured pride when darcy calls her tolerable and won't dance with her makes her prejudiced against him (and partial to anyone who criticises him, which leaves her vulnerable to wickham's manipulations). And darcy's pride springs from his prejudice (he assumes nobody at the assembly is worthy to stand up with, because of their station, and so comes off as / is proud; later on he proves he has fixed this flaw in his thinking by being nice to the gardners).
Brilliant analysis on Elizabeth and Catherine seeing what they want to see / seeing things from their perspective !
My teacher for humanities in my junior year had us read pride and prejudice it was a treat. And he refered to wickam as the rascally wickham but with a lisp "wascally wickham". It was the best class i ever took. I was also the leader of the "rag on mr darcy" club.
Jane Austen really does seem to have had a grasp of social observation and human nature that often is still applicable to the present day.
Side note: has anyone ever told you, that you resemble the actress Amy Acker? Like I thought you were her the first time I saw your content.
started with a book discussion, ended up becoming a workshop on self-love
I am always impressed by how insightful Jane Austen was.
That bumper music... 🤣... perfect.
I’m so glad some appreciates it! 😂 I spend way too much time on my end screen music selection and then am like, “No one is listening to this anyway!” 😂
Awesome method for making decisions related to long term commitment! I wish I'd heard it this way 30 yrs ago.
It's intresting when I first saw the movie Wichman seemed charming and a good friend granted I was 12 but that character can deceive you. I agree we all been Henry and Elizabeth in certain situation good analysis
Stage 2, "knowing who to trust," can only come into play if there is a person in your environment who communicates the message "do not fall for this person," because without such a third person, there is no conflict of opinion to choose from, no opportunity to place trust elsewhere than in the manipulator. Thus the opportunity to use stage 2 depends on factors outside one's own abilities, namely, the happenstance of there being a person who has either a backstory with the manipulator, or an unbiased judgment of the manipulator, who is also part of your current circle of acquaintances.
In Mansfield Park, Fanny could be an alternative source of trust for Edmund to rely on about Mary Crawford, but Fanny never speaks to him about Mary. I suspect she was wise in this, because Edmund had not yet learned to respect Fanny enough to rely on her opinion, and would have rejected her observations.
In Pride & Prejudice, Mr. Bingley was an alternative source of trust about Wickham, and Jane has the wisdom to recognize this, but Elizabeth, having been offended by Darcy and looking for reasons to dislike him, rejects this. Elizabeth's rejection is made somewhat reasonable because Bingley does not know the details of Wickham's misconduct towards both Darcy and his sister, and thus, does not have much of substance to cite.
In Emma, Mr. Knightley was an alternative source of trust about Churchill, and about Elton, and about Harriet Smith herself, and he has solid substance for his opinion on all three, but Emma rejects him on all three persons, mostly because it would discredit her own imaginings about them. Emma's willfulness stems from immaturity - not from bad character.
In Sense and Sensibility, Brandon could be an alternative source of trust about Willoughby, but not soon enough. Marianne committed to Willoughby before Brandon had solid evidence against Willoughby. Marianne should have relied on Elinor's advice to "go to stage 3, give it time," but was too impulsive to abide by this counsel.
In Persuasion, Anne's schoolmate Mrs. Smith is an alternative source of trust about Mr. Elliot, and she presents her evidence convincingly, and Anne relies on it. Anne is able to benefit from this because she has already applied "stage 3, give it time."
In Northanger Abbey, I don't think this issue really comes up. Catherine herself is not the target of manipulation by anyone, other than the carriage-ride with John Thorpe (a small incident in social life) and by Isabella, who is seeking no more than Catherine's siding with her in persuading Catherine's brother to marry her. On a side-note to this, I have never thought Tilney's chastisement of Catherine about fantasizing Abbey-horrors was fair, because he himself, with his joking nature, had predisposed her towards it. He already knew she was young, and this was her first trip away from home, and she enjoyed the escapism of horror-novels, before he joked about the Abbey containing horrors. He should have apologized to her instead of reprimanded her.
Stage 3, give it time, is something that the manipulator can try to cut-off, by presenting some circumstances or issues that basically say "choose me now or lose me forever." This latter point was one that women of Austen's time were particularly vulnerable to, given that marriage was the only way to a decent sustainable life.
In summary, to use your observations requires the luck of having a person in our lives who can provide the alternative view (stage 2) and we have to be prepared to drop a person if circumstances do not permit us the time to make a better assessment (stage 3).
This is an insightful analysis of the texts, and very timely for the 2020s.
I absolutely avoided a Scoundrel! 24 years on I’m still married to the awesome non-scoundrel that o did marry 🥰
Congratulations! Tell us how you did it!
YOU are awesome, and as Mr. Darcy asks; I hope (you and) your family are in good health. I connect more with Anne Elliot because she takes time for evaluation - that was an excellent point. I also think that because she suffered long-term from not listening to her heart regarding Captain Wentworth, she is careful in deciding things for herself.
It's interesting how much we've managed to grow past the "one mistake is the end of everything" mentality. Oh, can I ask here, in Mansfield Park, the result of the affair is Mrs.R is isolated in a small house in another "country", should we read this as the modern "county"?
Yes, country in Austen should be read as county.
It’s the third day in a row I am watching this channel and I cannot bring myself to watch anything else. I have always been fascinated by 19th century culture traditions and novels and now I am at work listening to this which is the best❤
Something I’ve always wondered about. If Wickham had run off with some other woman that wasn’t connected to the Bennet family…would Mr. Darcy still feel so responsible for the girl? Would he have found them and forced the marriage?
My overall thought is yes but he probably wouldn’t have spent 10k…he did that so he’d be able to marry Lizzie if she ever changed her feelings for him. But he does feel responsible for Wickham in general independent of that I think
I think he feels responsible largely because he did not make public the kind of man Wickham was when he tried to elope with Georgiana. Darcy kept it private to spare embarrassment to his sister, but that allowed Wickham to be free to try that on with other vulnerable women. When it happened to Lydia, he felt guilty and responsible. I don't think he felt responsible for Wickham in any other sense.
Me, an AuDHDer with BPD and a poor sense of self, using this video as a therapy exercise
Hi Ellie! I’m currently watching Bridgerton and I was wondering what is the difference between the clothing that a lady is allowed to wear before and after coming out in society?
Jane Austen is giving perfect examples of what confirmation bias is . confirmation bias is when you. interpret everything according to your preconceived notions.
The lesson is in the title. Review your prejudices and how your pride guide (or misguide) your actions. An honest view is hard, but worth it. Loved your analysis.
Great video well put together I think everyone should watch this video to avoid an unsuitable marriage or even a toxic relationship for that matter.
Fantastic analysis!
I hope you're feeling better, I remember you mentioning that your health needed some care.