Who is Mr Elliot? His Evil Plots Explained | Persuasion Jane Austen Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- Ah, Jane Austen and her cousins set to inherit estates who also like proposing to people. In this Persuasion analysis video, we talk about who is Mr. Elliot? We take a closer look at Anne Elliot's cousin who is set to inherit her family's estate and Sir Walter's baronetcy. We examine his evil plots, marital background and answer the burning question, "Why does he want to marry Anne?" We also talk about Captain Wentworth's social class, how the Elliot girls are different from the Bennets of Pride and Prejudice, and what is going on with Mrs. Clay.
Important Correction: The Elliot girls' fortune is £3,333 each.
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🕰 WATCHING GUIDE
00:00 Who is Mr Elliot? [Intro]
00:35 All About Anne Elliot's Family
02:26 Mr Elliot vs Mr Collins of Pride and Prejudice
03:36 Why Anne would want to marry Mr Elliot
06:38 First Evil Plot: Marrying for Money
09:32 Social Class in Persuasion
10:45 Are. Anne & Wentworth the Same Social Class?
12:38 Was Mr Elliot's wife an America? (Netflix Persuasion)
13:23 Is Mr Elliot poor? (Persuasion 1995)
14:35 Why Does Mr Elliot Want to Marry Anne?
17:21 Why Doesn't Mr Elliot Marry Elizabeth?
19:34 Jane Austen's Bad Guys Appreciating Virtue
21:17 Is Mr Elliot in Love With Mrs Clay?
22:45 What Will Happen to Mr Elliot?
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#janeausten #persuasion2022 #persuasion1995 #persuasionanalysis
Spanish Subtitle Update: I am so sorry this video does not have subtitles in Spanish available. Due to inflation, the subtitling service I normally used almost doubled in price. I have been looking for a reliable and affordable alternative for over a month. But I have not yet been able to find one. I’m so sorry!
Actualización de los subtítulos en español: Siento mucho que este vídeo no tenga subtítulos en español. Debido a la inflación, el servicio de subtitulado que normalmente utilizaba casi duplicó su precio. Llevo más de un mes buscando una alternativa fiable y asequible. Pero todavía no he podido encontrar ninguna. ¡Lo siento mucho!
Maybe there are some spanish/english speaking fans here, who could help out? =)
@@diananoss9931 absolutely! I also know many translators who could jump in for the task
Spanish and English speaker here
Hi, I speak Spanish fluently since it's my mother language so I'd love to help you with the translations if you want!
Maybe we spanish speaking fans could get together and translate the video?
Jane Austen showed us over 200 years ago that a good woman can't fix a bad man.
She also showed that foolish or naive men will chase after worthless women, but we are all united in saying literature has one of its major purposes in pointing out the pitfalls of life.
Anne would not have married Mr. Elliot. The book makes it clear that she found him too secretive. She knew there was a side of him that he was hiding. This is the difference between Anne and other Austen heroines. She is older and wiser.
Agree. She thinks about how she had started rational and “learned romance” later. She doesn’t love Mr Elliott, and he doesn’t have the openness she values. Remember that she was previously courted by her sister’s husband but turned him down. She know what she wants, and because she knows she can stay with Lady Russell, she doesn’t have the same sense of urgency as Mrs Bennett was imparting to her daughters. She can be absolutely sure before she marries, and even the idea of taking her mother’s place is not enough because of Mr Elliott, not even because of Cpt Wentworth.
Yup, She sees, early on, how he’s a bit too much of a chameleon - how can she trust him, truly?
Yes, very early on she was suspicious of him and why he was suddenly trying to be on good terms with the family again. He was sus and she always saw that.
Mmhmm. Towards the end of chapter 17... "Mr. Elliot was too generally agreeable. Various as were the tempers in her father’s house, he pleased them all. He endured too well, stood too well with every body."
Absolutely! It would be against her character to marry for position and ownership of her family home.
Okay, but can we just praise aunty Jane for always staying clear of the 'good woman changes bad man' trope?! There is a tumblr snippet floating around that sums up her whole 'he'll change himself or off he goes' theme so many of her anti-Darcys fall under. Darcy gets Lizzy cause he changes his stance, while Willoughby, Eilliot & Crawford do not get the girl.
My thoughts exactly. Bad men do not change for a good woman, especially not if that does not benefit them. Mr Darcy was never bad, just bad at presenting himself, once he realizes that his reputation matters even in circles beneath him, he starts acting in 'more gentlemanly manner'.
As one of my favorite sayings goes, "Women are not reform schools."
Elizabeth didn't change Darcy, she rejected him. It was that rejection that made him rethink. Though yes, she had hinted at his pride in their "set toos", which may also have made him "wake up" eventually.
But then, Darcy was a good guy with flaws while the others were bad guys that could appreciate good women.
Mr. Elliot also had the greatest Austen quote.
“My idea of good company is clever, well-informed people who have a good deal of conversation.”
“You are mistaken. That is not good company. That is the best.”
However, I always got the feeling he didn't truly believe that, he was just trying to impress Anne.
@@clpearson991 I think he did believe it. He recognised the value of superior people, but acknowledged that they were rare, and that he didn't think it reasonable to expect to meet many of them.
@@clpearson991 I do think he does believe it as well. Mr. Elliot is a socially astute character, willing to put up with nonsensical people (like Sir Walter and Elizabeth) to get what he wants. All through the novel Mr. Elliot casts aspersions at those he thinks are bad or uninteresting (like the Dalrymples). But he recognizes that they may be socially valuable and that one should put up with them for the sake of being in proper company.
@@clpearson991😊
Bring a 'grazier' means running your own stock on a reasonably-sized landholding. I'd always assumed that the wealth of Mr Elliot's first wife had come through this process:
- the butcher grandfather was a successful business man, who built up his capital and then diversified into the stock and land;
- he passed all this onto his son, who consolidated the holdings, built them further, and became a 'grazier' i.e. nudging into 'landed gentry' territory, rather than just a famer with a few animals;
- he then died and left his - probably only - daughter quite a wealthy woman.
Thanks for this in-depth analysis, Ellie. I do love Mr. Elliot as a flirt. He's a great flirt, and has some of the best lines in the novel. But the real person that I want you to talk about is Mrs. Smith, a really complex character who says, "Marry Mr. Elliot! Marry Mr. Elliot! It is the thing that is most desired by your family!" And then when Anne says, "Nope, not marrying him," Mrs. Smith's story takes a 180 degree turn and Mrs. Smith says, "Well, okay, it's probably a good idea not to marry him since he's an utter scumbag who is planning on marrying you and taking Penelope as his side piece." What a change in storyline!
Well, I suppose she didn't know whether Anne wanted to marry him or not and was just advising her to make a good match for herself if it was available. Mr elliot on his face would be a good catch and could secure Anne and make her comfortable forever
This is a great point! The Mrs Smith plot line is super nuanced and complicated. It would need its whole own video. 😂 Which is why I didn’t really cover it here. She’s definitely not as straightforward as many of the movies portray her. 🤔
IMHO, Mrs. Smith thought if Anne married him, she would get Mr. Elliot to help her get Mr. Smith's property back.
@@jmarie9997 Agreed. Mrs. Smith's actions here are rather grey to me. She has the self-interested desire to get her property -- her slave property, I might add -- taken care of in the Carribean to get herself out of poverty, and is not above selling out an old school friend by promoting a marriage for her with a man she utterly despises. And yet... Mrs. Smith is poor, disabled, and struggling. This is a matter of life and death for her. I have such mixed feelings about her.
@@hilarymoonmurphy she's a very interesting character! I keep waiting from some author to write her story, like others did for Mary Bennet or Anne de Bourgh
The whole time, I was just thinking...Elizabeth with all her 'beauty' remains so unlikeable a character that not even the cunning Mr. Elliot would touch her with a ten foot pole LOL
He might have courted her if Anne hadn't been an option, given his multiple purposes in connecting himself with Sir Walter's family after the rift.
@@edithengel2284 I think Mr Elliott was too hedonistic. He had married for money and not love before. Now he was at leisure, wealthy, could indulge all his fancies without *needing* to marry. He didn't want a repeat of his 1st marriage to someone he despised or didn't respect. There was not much to gain from marrying Elizabeth for herself; he was already inheriting the estate and he didn't love her.
Instead even before Anne was out of the picture (!!! almost forgot the secret guilty meeting between them when he was supposed to be out of town, it was before Anne and Captain Wentworth came together), he indulged himself, and seduced the very interested Mrs Clay with money and charm. He was a playboy having fun and also preserving his future status. Very cunning and lustful. He could give the air of respectability but had none. Proven by how he treated those who could least benefit him (Mrs Smith).
I found a tee in an op shop (Aussie thrift store) today that says “society of obstinate headstrong girls - seriously displeasing people since 1813” and I instantly thought of you! It’s at too big for me but it can be my sleeping dress 😂 had to have it!
Love it!
I think what all these suave villains have in common is that they are too self-serving to make any woman of character a good husband. Mr. Crawford/Willoughby/ Elliot might feel some affection, but wouldn’t ever put his wife’s needs first. It takes some strength of character for a woman to hold out for a man who not only values her good qualities, but also has enough good qualities himself to be a good partner to her.
That is such a good point! True love is self-sacrificing and requires the lover to have an amazing character themselves.
Yes! 👏 Finally someone gets it. I am always arguing this point with people who wanted Fanny to marry Henry and Marianne to end up with Willoughby, and I get told I don't "understand" so called "real" romance and that their endings were so tragic blah blah blah.
Seriously if one more person tries to tell me Mansfield Park can't be classified as a Romance because "OMG Edmund sux" I'll deck them. 😂.
Sorry but if your main reason for shipping Anne/William Elliot is because you think Golding is Hawt (look I get it, I think the Mr. Elliot from 1995 is really handsome, hell I even love the actor playing Willoughby in 2008 because hello Richard from Seeker!, but still) or if you call Edmund Bertram "Edward", I can't take you seriously.
Edit: I love how when Elizabeth turns out be wrong about Wickham everyone goes, aw, poor Lizzy, she didn't KNOW. But Edmund is wrong about Mary Crawford, and all the readers randomly decide he's a drip and they hate his guts? Did I freaking MISS something? You guys and your popularity contests are so freaking weird. Just saying.
@@lovetolovefairytales Yes, it's kind of amazing that Austen, though she ever married, understood this subtle distinction so well. What makes a good marriage? A loving partner; not just a Hawt guy (or gal). Most people don't understand this, as she demonstrates with the fact that most of the marriages in her book are pretty abysmal. It's the same to this day. I think it's this kind of thing that makes some of her admirers compare her to Shakespeare.
@@vorkosigrrl6047 the real irony is that some of these Henry/Fanny, Anne/William shippers would be repulsed if a film adaptation cast someone who looks like Austen says they do in the book. William and Henry C are charming in manners, but if you saw them on the street in real life expecting to meet your "idea" of Mr. Crawford and Mr. Elliot, you'd be like omg, where is he? Where's my Hawt bad boy? Behind the plain as heck guy waving at me? 😂
I think if most of us could open a door and enter the worlds of Persuasion and MP like Amanda in Lost in Austen we'd think Maria and Elizabeth Elliot were morons for chasing the men they did. Maria I know Rushworth is tubby but you gave up sotherton for this doof 😂?
I agree with your comment about what makes Austen brilliant.
@@vorkosigrrl6047 I also wanted to add, I think it's amazing Austen had insight enough to show all sides. Like she makes it clear Wentworth and Anne probably would have made it if they'd kept their engagement but she also shows the negative life Fanny's mother has after marrying a sailor against her family's wishes.
I love your analysis on Jane Austen baddies: they can appreciate good qualities in others, maybe they even want to embody those virtues themselves, but they can never muster up the courage or effort to change. I also think it's refreshing that Austen usually doesn't go down the "oh, the scoundrel fell in love with a lady and that love changed him for the better" route. Sure, Mr. Darcy reevaluates and changes some of his behaviors after being roasted by Elizabeth, but he already had a center of morality to fall back on in difficult situations. Jane Austen was very cynical of love in many respects - at least, the overblown romantic notions that plagued the stories of her time (and our time, tbh). Love is a great influence, but unless a person is willing to change, and unless that change comes from a desire to better oneself and not just to please others, it won't do much to change a scoundrel's ways.
Or the other usual route of "ha! he was 100% horrible all the time, he was just pretending to love". It gives a more realistic side to the characters.
Yes! I love the message of "just because someone loves and appreciates you doesn't mean you have to love them back, they can still be a bad person even if they're nice to you"
I hadn't thought of this before watching this video, but it's a very interesting point.
That's a very good point and I agree.
@@elisecollins8467 I totally missed that one, but you're right.
All the more reason to read Jane Austen today.
Mr Elliott comes off even worse in the book than the films, because sometimes they portray him as having no money, whereas he really is rich from his first marriage but he just wants to be richer and get the title and estate in addition. If he married Anne, he insinuates himself into the family and blocks any possible attempt of Sir Walter remarrying. But he also seduced Mrs Clay into being his mistress to seal the deal on all fronts. What a scoundrel!
I don't think he's interested on the money, just the prestige of the title
There's not much money to go with the estate and baronetcy, after Sir Walter is done wasting it and mismanaging it. Aside from one of the daughters' dowry, there's no monetary gain in the scheme. It's really about puting a "Sir" before his first name.
@@MarinaEariel In the book and the 2022 adaptation, he already has money. So, yes, he interested in keeping the title, hence the need to separate Sir Walter and cunningly flirty Penelope.
@@marysmith5003 I agree he had no interest in the money, as Sir Walter wasn't able to avoid going into considerable debt the estate probably wasn't going to add noticeably to his fortune. But as the book makes clear, when he had no money he didn't care about the title, but once his money troubles were sorted he began to value the title.
@@ElizabethJones-pv3sj I agree.
"She was very low class, plus lots of money" I've solved the mystery. She's a secret pirate.
She was one of the many dread pirate roberts.
@@EllieDashwood I got that reference! 😎
I think the use of American was used to indicate (obnoxious) “new money”
That’s quite well portrayed in popular culture via titanic and downton abbey.
Yeah, but it's about fifty years too early for that cultural conversation. The trend of titled English men marrying American heiresses for their money was very much a late Victorian / Edwardian era thing
@@lateralhistory Charles Bingley came from trade. Strictly speaking, he married up socially, while Jane Bennet married up in monetary terms. Social climbing through cash is centuries old.
@@jmarie9997 Bingley wasn't American.
I love your point about scoundrels who still see the fine qualities of the heroine. I hadn't really thought about it, but it's so true! I would add Mr. Wickham to the list. Even though he has no intention of marrying someone with very little money, it is Lizzie he's initially drawn to.
I got the impression he sought her out because she was the only one who noticed the unfriendly greeting between him and Mr Darcy, and he was anxious to start turning people against Mr Darcy before Mr Darcy could do so to him. Since Elizabeth was such a sympathetic listener, and extremely eager to hate Mr Darcy, it naturally led to a closer 'friendship' between the two. Just my opinion!
I absolutely loved your analysis on Jane Austen's villains recognizing that the main heroines are wonderful women, but that it doesn't make them better men. How often do you see, hear or read about women who have been wronged by a man and they ask themselves: "What have I done wrong? What's wrong with me that he did this to me?" And it just goes to show that you can be a lovely woman with many talents and good behavior, but some man can still do you wrong. And that's on him, and not on you!
It's not just one way, Jess. I've watched my son change from a toletant, accepting, open youngster to a selfish and suspicious young man that avoids women because he crossed paths with one too many skank. with kids out of wedlock, the morals of a cheap roadie, who have traded their youth for easy conquests and now wonder why the guys are not sniffing around as they once were.
In our current culture, it's seems awfully tough to know how to engage in this new dating game.
I think Anne could have married Mr Elliot, but only if Wentworth was no longer available AND Mrs Smith hadn't told the truth. Anne knew that Mr. Elliot was too nice to be completely honest, but until Mrs. Smith's story, she had no reason to suspect anything really bad. And Anne really enjoyed being with him! Especially with this whole gratitude issue that runs through Austen's relationships... Mr. Elliot noticed her first and made her feel wanted.
A lot of people argue that she would have turned him down anyway because she turned Charles down, but to me those are two different situations. Charles asked her when she was still young, not long after the whole Wentworth thing. During the novel, Anne is much more mature and has had a chance to realize that her life is horrible but it wouldn't have to be, if she could surround herself with good company. And Mr. Elliot fits, or fitted once, in what she calls Good Company. But Charles doesn't. He's nice and kind but he's not sensible.
With Charles too, she was encouraged by Lady Russel to decline. However with Mr. Elliot, Lady Russel found that to be a good match.
@@skj9163 No, Lady Russell very much wanted Anne to marry Charles. "Lady Russell had lamented her
refusal; for Charles Musgrove was the eldest son of a man, whose landed property and general importance were second in that country, only to Sir Walter's, and of good character and
appearance; and however Lady Russell might have asked yet for something more, while Anne was nineteen, she would have rejoiced to see her at twenty-two so respectably removed from
the partialities and injustice of her father's house, and settled so permanently near herself." Her refusal shows that Anne has grown since she was 19 and took Lady Russell's advice to reject Wentworth.
@Giovana I strongly disagree. Anne's decision not to marry Mr. Elliot has nothing to do with either Wentworth's availability or Mrs. Smith's telling the truth. Her decision was made before either of those circumstances. Although Anne did not have specific reasons yet, she did not trust Mr. Elliot from the beginning. Over the years, Anne has developed good instincts about people as well as the courage to follow those instincts ."She never could accept him. And it was not only that her feelings were
still adverse to any man save one; her judgement, on a serious consideration of the possibilities of such a case, was against Mr Elliot." This was before she heard Mrs. Smith's story.
Anne has also developed an appreciation for the power of love and an understanding for what makes a good marriage. "How she might have felt had there been no Captain Wentworth in the case, was not
worth enquiry; for there was a Captain Wentworth; and be the conclusion of the present suspense good or bad, her affection would be his for ever. Their union, she believed, could not
divide her more from other men, than their final separation." Austen makes clear that Anne is choosing spinsterhood over marriage to anyone but Captain Wentworth. Even before she hears from Mrs. Smith, Anne has decided not to marry Mr. Elliot and is actively avoiding him. She has decided not to marry him and tells Mrs. Smith that BEFORE hearing Mrs. Smith's story. In fact, it is the strength of Anne's declaration that she will not marry Mr. Elliot that convinces Mrs. Smith to tell Anne the truth. Anne determines not to marry him, not because she knows him to be bad - in fact, she acknowledges that she owes him gratitude, regard, and compassion. But she still chooses not to marry him. When she does finally hear from Mrs. Smith, it affirms her negative "vibe" about Mr. Elliot, and her decision not to marry him.
I'm a year late, but I always felt that if Anne *had* married anyone else it would have been Benwick. Not because there would necessarily be romantic love between them, but because both have suffered the loss of their true love, and could probably understand and comfort each other in a way others couldn't. I don't think Mr Elliot was ever a real option.
@@petrabotha8314 while I believe that she could be happy with Benwick, I think she woundn't accept him because of the circumstances. For them to get togheter, Wentworth would have to marry Louisa, and Anne would likely want to distance herself as well as she could. Marrying his close friend would keep the wound open.
But if they had somehow met without Wentworth interference, I think they would eventually fall in love.
As Mrs Smith says, if they had married, it was not an entirely hopeless case. He had no respect or love for his first wife, but he did respect Anne. Her influence on him might have grown, at a greater distance from her family who kept her finer qualities suppressed. At least, that is what Mrs Smith believes could have happened had he found a worthy wife he respected, but she might be slightly overly optimistic there.
That was just her hope. I personally believe, a scoundrel is hard to tame.
True, but I think it doesn't speak well for his character that he didn't treat his wife with respect. I doubt Anne would choose a man who behaved that way.
True enough. I do think that Anne would have had a better shot at happiness with Mr. Elliott than his first wife did. But we (the readers) know something that Mrs. Smith does not which would undermine that hope. Yes, Mr. Elliot respects Anne, but all this time he has also been romancing Mrs. Clay as well as flirting with Elizabeth. That does not bode well.
@@ThanksHermione I haven't read the book, but the comment section full of women defending a clearly crappy dude. Are there no good options? Everyone sounds like an Asian mom of a useless son.
"The right women can fix him."
@@ritan2 True, and that is, I think, the difference between Charlotte Lucas and Mr Collins, and Anne and Mr Elliot. There is the possibility for Charlotte to be a positive influence on Mr Collins, but mostly because as ridiculous as Mr Collins is, he doesn't have the vices Mr Elliot does.
According to "Gentlemen of Uncertain Fortune: How Younger Sons Made Their Way in Jane Austen's England" by Rory Muir, "Recent research by Evan Wilson has shown that only about one fifth of all naval officers came from the landed gentry and nobility; a second fifth had fathers who were themselves in the navy; and most of the remainder came either from the professions or from the world of commerce, although this last category ranged from small shopkeepers to wealthy merchants."
So Captain Wentworth's position does not indicate his class. Naval officers didn't have to buy their commissions, and often joined the service as boys.
That's interesting! Thanks for the information. I'll have to look more into this. Also, the wealthy merchants and those in educated professions would be included in the high middle class that I referred to that he might come from in the video. Also, even if their immediate family was in trade, their extended family may have had a better background and connections. The class formula was very complex as I talk about in other videos, and had many factors involved. For example, the younger sons of the gentry could go into trade or a man may have a mother who came from high rank. This would technically make their son who entered the navy the "son of a tradesmen" but Regency society would view him differently.
I've got to find that book. Thank you!
I'm curious to learn how naval promotion practices worked after reading Mansfield Park and thinking about Crawford's intercession with his uncle the Admiral on behalf of Fanny's brother? I don't know anything about it, and I don't mean to be argumentative but it seems to me that's a kind of patronage in the Navy.
He having a brother who is a curate/reverend speaks to him coming from a respectable though unlanded family (the book never mentions other than a brother and a sister. If there had been an older brother to inherit an estate, he would have been mentioned)
Ooh! I need to read that book! Thank you for providing the title of it! I love those kinds of books! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Anne wouldn’t marry Mr. Elliot…before Captain Wentworth came to Bath, she had seen Mr. Elliot’s talent for being pleasing to everyone in her family, including Mrs. Clay and found it suspicious. I would think that degree of flattery and charm takes a lot of fore thought
I don't think Anne ever would have married Mr. Elliot, and I think Austen makes that clear when tempted by the chance to assume her mother's role as Lady Elliot, Anne realizes she cannot marry Mr. Elliot. It is kind of a shame, because I think Mrs. Smith is correct that Anne would have been a positive force in his life and made him a better man.
In many ways, Persuasion is a story about marriage and what makes for good or bad ones. Since her disappointment in giving up the engagement to Wentworth, Anne has learned to trust herself and her understanding. She has also been carefully watching many married couples and is clear in what she wants. In addition to her parents' marriage, through the novel Anne is carefully studying Charles & Mary Musgrove, Mr. and Mrs. Musgrove, the Harvilles, and the Crofts. She also becomes aware of the issues in Mr. Elliot's first marriage and Mrs. Smith's. All of this gives Anne a very strong sense of what she wants and she is no longer willing to settle, even to please others. She refused Charles years ago, and she has only grown wiser and stronger in character since then.
Mr Elliot ruins Mrs Clay’s reputation when they run off together, ensuring that Sir Walter won’t marry her and possibly produce a male heir and disinherit him of the estate and title. But William won’t marry “a fallen woman” and ruin his own reputation. He will marry for attraction. So no, no, no, Netflix, absolutely no wedding scene.
Well even this video pointed out how the booo ends with a hint that Mrs Clay actually might convince him to change his mind.
Now that you mentioned it is really ahead of her time (and even ours) in implying that a woman can't change a man, even if he loves her and that in the end they end up with the person who is right for them (and that they also love)
I adore your videos and I love the prolific truth you gleaned from Austen’s works where you said her villains can truly recognize and be drawn to the light and goodness of her heroines! Jane really is a genius of love. In today’s dating world I’ve encountered this exact scenario myself and on a dating advice channel in TH-cam there was a great quote today that sums up what you said in your astute video “Men don’t run away from good women they run away from what they have to change in themselves to deserve her’ Even Austen saw this in her day and when I marvel at the worth of these heroines like Marianne who Willouby could possibly give up- they remind me of my own value
May I take my hat off to all you lovely, perceptive ladies who have explored these "grey" characters five levels deeper than I would ever have guessed existed? The back and forth has been eye opening and delightful. This truly underscores just how deep and nuanced are Jane's "little bits of ivory, intricately worked".
Thanks.
Anne and Mr. Elliot would not have been compatible and she knew it. They had nothing in common and she realized quite early on that he was inconstant and lacking in character even before Mrs. Smith told her.
That's so true! The red flags were there early. 🧐🚩
Glad to still see some Austen commentary! I have been really enjoying everything you put out lately
Aw! Yay! Thank you so much. I’m glad that you’re enjoying it! 😃💕🥰
Anne was offered marriage by Charles Musgrove, a true friend that she genuinely liked and who she knew was a good guy, and she refused. I don't recall she had regrets about it. So I have a hard time thinking she would have accepted William Elliot eventually, even if nothing had been in his way to win her.
And I don't think William Elliot could have been convinced by Mrs Clay to marriage either. Unlike Elizabeth or Sir Walter, he wasn't that sensitive to cunning and flattery.
Yes, but I think she liked Charles Musgrove as a brother, whereas Mr. Elliott seemed more mysterious and interesting. I think she might have fallen for him, had she been not constantly reminded of her affection for Captain Wentworth because he was around all the time.
@@eurosis And she was warned by her friend as well.
@@whatevergoesforme5129 Well, yeah, that too.
@@eurosis Not at all convinced she'd go for the "mysterious and interesting" type.
At first I totally agree with this assessment, but part of me realize, Musgrove, unlike Mr. Elliott, wouldn't inherit Kellynch and give her a title (this is IF no one told Anne about Mr. Elliott's real motive, Frederick was unavailable-married to another, etc). Sure, Charles was a good/decent man with a good situation, but he couldn't offer what Mr. (will later be Sir) Elliott can offer Anne. Kellynch and a title just like her mother's. Anne had that thought of 'want' to return to her 'real' home, Kellynch and having the title like her mum, Lady Elliott to be the 'plus' in the situation.
Thank you for clearing all that up, especially since the movies have muddied his motives over the years! I thought that Netflix version with him and Mrs.Clay suddenly and unexpectedly madly in love and violently kissing in public was so bizarre!
It was bizarre even for the movie! It made no sense from the plot development. lol.
and bizarre given the era...well just like the behavior the rest of the characters in that era..
Yeah I didnt like that ending. It seemed to suggest that Mr Elliot and Mrs Clay were really in love the whole time. But he wasnt meant to really be in love with Mrs Clay, just seducing her away from Sir Walter and ruining her reputation.
I feel sad for Henry Golding cuz he's such a dreamy guy and I am dying to see more Asian men playing romantic leads.
A Filipino Instagram account I follow compared him to looking like Jose Rizal, Filipino National Hero, with the outfit he wore in the promo posters.
Le sigh.
A recurring theme with Austen's villains is that they're all charming and suave who may not be good looking, but have freakishly high charisma stats and social savviness. But as Into the Woods reminds is "Nice is different than good" and Austen really likes to hammer that theme down in all her books.
I feel like they should have cast him as Captain Wentworth instead of Mr Elliot! I think he would have done a much better job than who they did cast. 😭 They missed such a major opportunity there.
@@EllieDashwood Some of the comments said the same thing.
@@EllieDashwood He was asked to play Captain Wentworth and he turned it down. He wanted to play a villain (although I didn't think he really played one in the adaptation.)
He probably took a look at the script and was like, "yeah...no."
He turned down the role, so while Henry Golding would've had another romantic lead notch on his belt, something about the project made him prefer to play Mr. Elliot.
@@reikun86 Which I think was the better choice given the ugh factor of this new adaptation....
Sugar Cousin had me LMAO 🤣🤣🤣
Especially bc while it suits Mr. Elliott the idea of Mr. Collins as a sugarcousin takes it to a whole other level of humour.
The way I understood it, he thought marrying one of Sir Walter's daughters would discourage Sir Walter from marrying again and possibly siring a son to inherit the title.
And he decided Elizabeth was not worth putting up with.
This was his primary motive in my view. If Mr Elliot had a son by his wife Anne Elliot, that son was Sir Walter's grandson. It would certainly reduce the chances of Sir Walter remarrying for a male heir to cut Mr Elliot out of the succession.
In the novel, I could see this happening especially if a pregnant Mrs Clay persuades Mr Elliot to marry her. Elizabeth would then encourage her father to marry even if that stepmother supplants her at Kellynch. A young woman from trade with a big dowry (at least thirty thousand) plus her relatives buying up mortgages on Kellynch land just as happened in Georgette Heyer's A Civil Contract. However, Sir Walter is neither young nor particularly charming, and is wholly given up to his vanities. His eldest daughter is still unmarried and likely to never marry.
Rich heiresses could probably find younger and more agreeable suitors. But the heiress Catherine Tylney-Long threw herself away on the wastrel William Wellesley-Pole, heir presumptive to an Irish earldom and nephew of the Marquess Wellesley and Duke of Wellington.
@@shinjineesen400 The entail that covers Kellynch must go along the male line, therefore, it cannot "travel" to a grandson via a daughter of Sir Walter. Mr. Elliott still would inherit and not Anne's son. Remember, that Mary already has two sons and neither of them are in line to inherit Kellynch.
@@ritan2 I know that the entail travels in a male line. I merely speculate about William Elliot's reasoning that Sir Walter is less likely to remarry and less likely to father a son if his daughter (Elizabeth preferred but Anne in tgis case) were to marry the heir presumptive William and give birth to a son, an Elliot male, who woukd also be Sir Walter's grandson.
In the case of the Earls Waldegrave Lady Laura Waldegrave (a daughter of the 3rd Earl) married her cousin, the future 5th Earl, son of the 4th Earl. In fictional Downton Abbey, Lady Mary marries a distant cousin the heir presumptive, and her son is the new heir presumptive after hus father dies. The present Earl's wife the American heiress is too old to have more children but the Earl and Countess are relieved that the new baby, their grandson, will inherit the title and estate.
@@shinjineesen400 Yes, I misread your posting. I do think you are correct. Sir Walter would be much less likely to marry again if one of his daughters married the heir presumptive and had a son. Although, could you imagine how put out Mary would be? Her sons, also Sir Walter's grandsons, get little attention from Sir Walter and would be totally pushed aside for a grandson who would also be an heir?!
I think you have this figured out correctly. Having seen several times and admired the 1995 adaptation, and only read the novel once, I had to go back and read that portion to figure out the Wm. Elliot motive. He and Lizzie did NOT hit it off, but he fell for Anne. Still, he wanted the estate and title, so he had to try to intervene in the Walter E.-Mrs. Clay angle to reduce chances of anything happening to upset that. It appears that he was hoping to marry Anne, keep Mrs. Clay on the side as a mistress, and impede, however he could, Sir Walter from producing an heir. Marrying Anne puts him at the estate long before Sir Walter is boxed up, and Wm. the Rat is in high clover. He is still a villain any way you slice it.
Anne's conversations with Mrs. Smith are very enlightening, as if they were harking back to certain themes explored in Lady Susan.
Miss Elliot comes out of this stupid and a snob as well as clueless. One wonders (but not too much) why Elizabeth never had any other offers. Lady Russell might have meddled with her, too, or perhaps Lizzie was just a witch that men avoided.
So true! I think Elizabeth didn’t need any kind of meddling from Lady Russell. Somewhere in the book, there is a bit, where it said something like, she wouldn’t really settle for less than a Baron? I think also she never had any offers, though in the Café in the rain, when Wentworth offers Anne her umbrella, his acquaintances say, that a lot of men admire Miss Elliott, but I think it’s rather a more superficial admiration, because she is rather superficial herself and probably charming and fashionable in societal settings?
@@dottiewi661 Good point......superficial admiration that means little, because the "admirers" don't have to go home with her. Nothing less than a Baron leaves her with......Nothing.
Maybe some of her suitors were put off by Elizabeth's personality, but more would have been aware of Sir Walter's dire financial situation, and the fact that he would not be able to actually come up with the dowry that should come with her. If this wasn't true before Anne's marriage, and Sir Walter's inability to provide Anne with all that was owed to her, it certainly must have bee after ward.
Also important to note that Upon inheriting the baronetcy and Kellynch, he too would have assumed the debts of the property that Sir Walter had assumed.
I always wondered if part of the reason he turned away from Elizabeth and married for money in his youth is because he quickly saw during intimacy with the family how Sir Walter & Elizabeth were draining his future estate dry.
I still couldn’t forgive him for Mrs. Smith’s part of the ordeal, but I imagine he saw in Anne someone who would be good for Kellynch in a way nobody else could be, because she understood moderation, would check her father/sisters if mistress, would have a pride and desire to see him & the hall distinguished, etc.
To me, he’s not as much of a villain as Sir Walter in many ways
Anne’s father was concerned that Admirals had been brought too high in society. 🤔 hmmm
I love this thorough take on Mr. Elliot. It clears up a lot for me. I read the book, but then thought I had misunderstood something when I watched the films. Thanks for spelling this out and for all your amazing content, which I adore. Stay awesome, Ms. Dashwood!
Anne would not have married Mr. Elliot. she was suspicious of him early on because he was liked by everyone and that is hard to do if you are being genuine. she also heard from Mrs. Smith which confirmed her instinct. Even if Mr. Wentworth had married someone else I doubt she would have married Mr. Elliot as she got to know him better.
Yes, she has a high moral compass. She even turned down Charles Musgrove who is a better man than Mr. Elliot. She knows what she wants in a man.
Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel, and I'm living for this content! Thank you.
I loooove your videos!! They always make my day just awesome:)) Thank you very much for all your hard work!
At least Mr. Elliot recognized positive traits in Anne and saw how unpleasant Elizabeth was.
A great video! Another aspect of Mr. Eliot's attraction to Anne was that he'd heard wonderful things about her for any years from Mrs. Smith, particularly how different she was from Sir Walter and Elizabeth. He even mysteriously dangles this knowledge of Anne before her during the concert, hoping to increase her interest, but ultimately it fails to pull her in. Unbeknownst to her, Mrs. Smith had created in Mr. Eliot a curiosity about her friend Miss Anne Eliot that he finally got to explore when he met her in Bath.
After your last video explaining why you tell us we're awesome, your outro has taken on a different meaning, knowing how deep you feel what you're saying to us, thank you 😊
Your Jane Austen's analysis are awesome!
Awww! Thank you!!! 😃🥰💕
Thanks for the video…. Really wanted you to go over the Mrs Smith thing, I’ve never really understood it. 💕
The Netflix movie is so historically tone deaf cw's Reign points and laughs at it.
oof
Thank you so much for another delightful video. I hope you‘re doing well.
Excellent analysis as always. Thanks Ellie
Aw! Thank you so much!!! 😃✨☺️
Wow!!! great job of pointing out the intricies of the story!
Thank you! I love how you explain things.
You are probably the only Austen fan on I saw on yt that really and totally understand Austen, her books, her characters, her era, culture, society, classes, manners etc etc. I found it quite remarkable, because all the other I've watched lacked something. Either they didn't understand heroines and/or other characters, either they had little or no clue about era, social life etc, either they were unable to distance themselves from 21.century point of view - and, I'm sorry to say, neither of them had such deep love for (understanding) history as you have. And, without that passion, one's understanding of Austen will always be shallow.
You're doing excellent job and I'm very happy because I found you!
I wondered about the "he married an American" in the 2022 adaptation, lol. Not exactly what Austen wrote in saying he married a rich but low(born) woman, whose death made him the proprietor of her fortune. She made him rich and had the decency to die quickly.
I wonder how they handled Charles Hayter?
I liked this new in-depth . Thank you on explaining some things I knew were about more, put I was puzzled .
Thank you! I so love your videos!
Yay! I’m so glad! 😃💕 Thank you so much for watching!!!!
I’m rereading Persuasion and Jane Austen gives us an answer to your question: "How she might have felt, had there been no Captain Wentworth in the case, was not worth enquiry; for there was a Captain Wentworth; and be the conclusion of the present suspense good or bad, her affection would be his for ever. Their union, she believed, could not divide her more from other men, than their final separation."
This!
Boom!! You win the prize! This!
Bingo! And then there’s this from Chapter 17, in response to Lady Russell’s somewhat manipulative depiction of wanting to see Anne take her mother’s place as Lady Elliot, “- She [Lady Russell] believed, in short, what Anne did not believe. The same image of Mr Elliot speaking for himself, brought Anne to composure again. The charm of Kellynch and of ‘Lady Elliot’ all fade away. She never could accept him. And it was not only that her feelings were still adverse to any man save one; her judgement… was against Mr. Elliot.”
Well, it is okay to ask a what if question in literature or any narrative. I believe, that even without Wentworth, Anne possessed such a high moral compass that she would never settle for less. She noticed how Elliot was too agreeable to everyone to be genuine which raised her suspicions. She would have stayed a spinster than marry Elliot. Plus, it was her moral standard that made her love Wentworth in the first place so she knew what she wanted in her man. That was her nature.
Soooo good!!! Thank you 🙏🙏🙏
"Sugar cousin"
OMG! I'm slain! I'm dead! I had to pause the video so I could laugh till I cried XDDD
Oh thank you i couldn't understand some things you explain here while reading persusasion
Thanks for sharing the analysis and for the subs.
As a not typical Austen fan I have to tell you that I really enjoy your videos and the viewpoints you provide. You present them in a concise and pleading manner. Persuasion is my favorite Austen book and I do believe that if Wentworth was not in the picture and she did not hear the Mrs Smith story, that she would have married Mr Elliot. The position she would have gained, the proximity and encouragement of Lady Russell and her attraction to him would have been too difficult to resist.
Thank you for clearing this up; I never could figure out the intrigue between Mr. Elliot and Mrs. Clay occurred.
That is an amazing video. I loved it. 😊
Aw!!! Thank you!!!!!! 😃 I’m so glad you enjoyed it.
@@EllieDashwood 🥰😍🤩
So interesting ! :)) Thank you.
Thank you for explaining this 🙋🏻♀️
I just read the book ♥ Thank you so much for the video ♥
“They can see the excellent sterling qualities of her heroines, they appreciate them, they ‘love’ them, they want them in their lives; however *that still does not make them any better men*”!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, Ellie, you SPOKE!
Jane Austen, shutting down the Good Guy Complex for 200 years!
Edit: OMG, the song at the end, lmaoooo
If you want to understand the class structure in the Royal Navy of the time ( not to mention some extremely entertaining and well written novels ) read Patrick O’Brian’s Jack Aubrey/Stephen Maturin series.
Thanks so much for the info!
Mr. Elliott is my favorite of the Austen villains because of all the nuance and cunning you discuss. Persuasion is such a layered and thoughtful book, and he fits right into that world.
Great video thanks
Ellie, I have recently found your channel, enjoying it a lot, thank you for your work :) You are talking about the regency era mostly from Jane Austen point of view, though for me it would be very interesting if you mage a video how the people of working class lived back then.. if it was essential for a working class women to marry as it was for the upper class ones, what choices they had, what was their life like.. In your video about Jane Austen's aunt you said that the only choice unmarried woman had was to become a governess or to sew bonnets, but theoretically there should have been other jobs, maybe bakers or teachers in the schools for poor people or other rich people's servants?
Loved the video and enjoyed the end credits and song 😀 I'm not quite sure if Anne would've.. It's my hope that if it didn't work out with Wentworth for one reason or another, that Anne would've caught on to the Mr. Elliot / Clay going ons and wouldn't involve herself further. She seems to have a good pulse on matters and peoples' character. So I feel she would've wanted to get to know him better rather than only rely on her attraction to him and keep the Elliot title to be the reasons for marrying.
Very interesting. Thank you
Yay! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Just finished this book and I'm absolutely obsessed
Smart assessment
In the 1995 Persuasion I always wondered when I saw Mrs. Clay and Mr Elliot talking together at the end, they just let that all “hang there” and so not having read the book yet (in 1995, that is) I was so confused by it.
The Netflix adaptation actually had me rooting for Mr Elliot which was so weird! In the book, I found him kind of sleezy and off-putting. Maybe I would not have been thinking she should marry Mr Elliot if they hadn't made Captain Wentworth so gormless. So yes, she should've married him if Wentworth hadn't come to his senses. It would've been so satisfying to thumb her nose at her family and gotten a husband who regards her.
Honestly, I didn't understand if Mr. Elliot was cruel to his first wife. If he was then he is definitely horrible but if it was just two people whose marriage didn't work out because they weren't compatible then not as sure if he's a bad person.
Knowing all this info about the British class system makes the marriages of the princes William and Harry seem inconceivable.
When one of Queen Victoria's daughters married the eldest son of the 8th Duke of Argyll (the head of one of Britain's oldest and greatest aristocratic families) most of the Royal Family were shocked that they would have aristocrats for in-laws. It's not hard to imagine how they would feel about today's Royal marriages.
I am British. Things have changed in the 200 years since Jane Austen was writing. William and Harry‘s marriages weren’t at all inconceivable to me or anybody that I know. In fact, everybody was very happy about them.
@@Jill-jb1jg K 👀
You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means...
@@lovetolovefairytales seek help
Who does the illustrations? They look fantastic!
Thank you! They're all original illustrations and artwork from the 18th and 19th century by various artists. Many are from fashion magazines of the era. I collect them from the online, public domain collections of major museums and restore them so that they pop. Here's a before and after example: th-cam.com/users/postUgkxKjKxSsyQBTMaqR-H8hDRh4-E0qSymHme
Wow, you took that at a gallop. I'm positive I missed a lot of keen research. Thank you for your effort
If I were Anne, I most likely would've agreed to Mr. Musgrove's proposal. Though not ideal, such a match was common at the time. Charles is a good, friendly, and pleasant man. He and his relatives continued to like her even after her refusal. She'd get to spend more time with them and they'd be a refreshing change from her unlikable family. Why did Charles wed Mary? Perhaps he reasoned this. "Well, Anne's a good companion. I'd get to interact with her as her brother in law. I can learn to put up with her sister. Considering Mary's personality and that of her relations, she might not get another offer."
Fantastic analysis!
I do not think Anne would have married Mr Elliot. I think her chance to reconnect with Captain Wentworth, even if it didn't end happily, served to really solidify her sense of self. I think she was very flattered by the charming attention of a widely desired guy. But just because this was her first time being popular, I don't think she would have let that sweep her good sense away. I think she found really appealing relationships with the other captains and their families that would have redirected her interests into more sincere circles.
An addition to the previous and in answer to your question. Anne, because she was Anne, was going to see her friend Mrs. Smith just because. Anne was NOT a snob. Whether or not Wentworth made her an offer, once she had her conversations with her friend, she knew all she needed to know about Wm. Elliot. He first married a fortune, not for love. I don't think Anne would marry him just so she could keep her home. By the time she reached 27 or so, she was much wiser, knew herself, and would not be fooled by a rascal like Mr. Elliot.
We're just delighted that Captain Wentworth was there for her, and that both learned to forgive and become better people. It is a wonderful fairytale.
It initially appeared to me that Wentworth had set out hurt (revenge) Anne. When Mr Elliott showed interest I was all for Anne accepting, ie "so there", to Wentworth and her family! The story of course turns it all around and I did love the ending. Elliot did recognize Annes qualities and she was amiable, which her sister was not.
Thanks Ellie.
Thank you
Elizabeth Elliot: *wants to marry for a house and a title*
Mr Elliot: *wants to marry for money*
Elizabeth Elliot: How preposterous! SMH!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Had he married someone rich, from his own social class, then it wouldn't have been an issue. It's the fact that his first wife was from a much lower social class that horrified everyone.
This is a great analysis. Anne was suspicious of Mr. E. So no. She wouldn't have married him. I love how Austen makes her villains more complex! So true.
I was really expecting your argument to hinge on Mrs Smith's contributions! I don't think Anne would have married Mr Elliot even without it, having learned to trust her gut feelings, but it certainly sped up the process and tied up that story arc with a neat bow. I'm a little sad Mrs Smith didn't get to shine in the video, but at least she's mentioned, and correctly, not with that ridiculous shortcut she gets in adaptations!! Come on, TV people, your audience is not that dumb. We deserve to see both her and Mr Elliot in their full glory: his multi-layered social scheming, and the way her misfortune and friendship and prudent reserve combine to eventually reveal the truth, and even then, only because she and Anne trust each other enough to speak frankly in the end. Girl friendship saving the day!!!
I love this portrayal of scoundrels. Austen writes them as self aware and magnetic, and models how this is not enough to make them good husbands. Young women beware, they will lure you in and ruin your life. Austen was very aware of the lack of options women had, and marrying a man who was "under 100 and breathing" was expected and must have been tempting to a woman worried about a life of spinster penury. Hang out for the good ones, ladies!!! Look out for yourself as your feckless parents and family won't!!!
I don't blame Anne for not marrying Mr. Elliott, and I don't think she would have married him since she never seemed to fully trust him. I think he decided to go after her because she was nicer than Elizabeth and he liked her, and he thought she might be easier to get along with and possibly manipulate. This way he can influence her father away from marriage and producing an heir AND from beggaring the estate given how much he and Elizabeth liked to spend. No fun in inheriting a title if your estate is burdened with debts.
Honestly Elizabeth is portrayed as extremely annoying. I don’t blame Mr Elliot for not marrying her. Anne though is both pretty and nice. He probably did genuenly like her.
Do we think that the different expectations of morality between men and women has anything to do with scoundrels falling in love with these good girls but not committing to change?
As in, "I want a moral woman because that's my social norm, but I don't see any need to change my own moral compass."
That's not very coherent, but it's the best I can do at the moment.
'Persuasion' is my second most favorite Jane Austen's book, and after I read it, I decided to watch an adaptation (big mistake). So, I watched the 1995 adaptation (the one with Amanda Root and Ciaran Hinds), and good Lord was I angry when they revealed that Mr Elliot tried to woo Anne only because that way he could become a baronet... I was like NO YOU IDIOTS, HE WOULD BE A BARONET ANYWAY, BUT HE JUST REALLY LIKED ANNE!
P.S. and as for your question, no I don't think Anne would've married Mr Elliot had Captain Wentworth not been in the picture, since in the book Anne quickly finds that Mr Elliot never seems honest, and that ticked her off; also, she got to the age where she was adamant about her own opinion, and wouldn't be swayed, I think.
Love your video!
One problem I have, which you haven't solved: Obviously, Elizabeth thinks Mr. Elliot is courting her, and Mrs. Clay is encouraging her to think so. Elizabeth has a lot of influence over Sir Elliot. If Mr. Elliot indeed proposes to Anne and Anne accepts him, Elizabeth will be deeply hurt. Won't she persuade Sir Elliot to cut ties, or at least go low contact, with Mr. Elliot? And wouldn't that be counter productive of his purpose of watching over Sir Elliot and preventing his marrying?
As for your question: Jane Austen has Anne afraid that she might have married Mr. Elliot - she might have given in to Lady Russell's persuasion, if not for Mrs. Smith's revelations about him. In a similar manner, in Mansfield Park, Jane Austen claims that if Henry Crawford has persevered, Fanny would have accepted him. But are these two statements the author's true opinion, or a touch of irony? My feeling is that both heroines would have stood firm.
Hadn't Mr Elliot been prepped to think about Anne as a spouse by Mrs Smith? Mrs Smith knew Anne from boarding school and had developed an extremely high opinion of her friend as exceptionally intelligent and of sterling character and good manners. Mr Elliot knew that she was the hidden gem before even seeing her. He already knew her foolish father and elder sister, so he knew the contrast was huge: no one would have praised either of them in the way Mrs Smith praised Anne. So he was primed to see her as his smart pick. And then he saw her and found that she was attractive too? It's clear why he would scheme.
I love how Jane Austen shows us that a 'bad boy' is not going to change his goals just because of a 'good girl, as some other commentators stated. While they recognize value in the 'good girl', their self serving motives come first as we see in Wickham, Willoughby, Crawford, Elliot.
I admire the determination of Austen's heroines. I would definitely fall for Mr Crawford and maybe even for Mr Elliot 😂
In 1794 Caroline Nesham, who only had a dowry of £500 (half the figure of each of the Bennet sisters), married a young country gentleman called William Beckwith who owned an estate in Yorkshire and a smaller estate in County Durham. Moreover, soon after his marriage he bought Herrington Hall for £7,000, presumably so that his wife could live near her family home at Houghton-le-Spring. Consequently, the Bennet sisters had better prospects of marrying a man of suitable rank than is often realised.
Rich men definitely married poor women in the era. But their personal charms or family connections usually had to make up difference. Which is why the Bennets are so hopeful that the most beautiful one among them, Jane, would make it big. lol.
@@EllieDashwood Hi. Given her intelligence, wit, vivacity and good looks, it was likely that Elizabeth would also attract a fellow member of the gentry.
@@glendodds3824 But would he be up to Lizzie's standards? She is a daddy's girl, and she has high standards. She is looking for a man with intellect and conversation, and someone perceptive enough to notice her loyalty to her family, her intellect as well as her beauty. (And not self important. Mr. Collins is not a villain, he's just full of himself!)
@@eric2500 Yes. She would have been able to find such a man. For example, Robert Surtees of Mainsforth (1779-1834) was a highly intelligent and kind member of the gentry who was loved by his tenantry for his deeds of charity. Moreover, he was also very well educated (he had an excellent knowledge of Latin and Greek) and wrote a four-volume History of Country Durham which impressed scholars so much that they founded the Surtees Society after his death, a society that still exists. In addition, he loved literature and was one of the best friends of Sir Walter Scott, whom he entertained at Mainsforth and visited in Scotland. What is more, Surtees married a young woman whose family fortunes were on the wane.
I agree that Mr Collins was self-important. He was of course also obsequious and foolish.
@@glendodds3824 Lizzie's attractiveness is made very clear in the book and is juxtaposed with Jane's great beauty and Charlotte's plainness. Lizzie is a combination of beauty and brains and for the right man she's a great catch, regardless of her relative poverty. The book is but a year in her life and in that time she manages to attract four different men (Wickham, Col. Fitzwilliam, Mr. Collins, and Mr. Darcy) and have two of them propose to her. Her lack of money does prevent both Wickham and Fitzwilliam from proposing (with Fitzwilliam making clear that her want of fortune is the issue). Although not full of herself, Lizzie is aware of her value - aware enough to take the risk of refusing two suitable prospects. Charlotte is similarly aware of her very limited value and jumps on the opportunity to marry Mr. Collins.
I think that it was possible that if Captain Wentworth had married Louisa, it is possible that Anne might have married Mr Elliot, especially given his admiration for her.
Someone needs to write an alternate ending of the book where this happens! 😂
I believe Anne would rather be an old maid than marry Mr. Elliot. That was how I read her character because she has a high moral standard. She even turned down Charles Musgrove who is a better man than Mr. Elliot. Plus, she was suspicious of Mr. Elliot because she saw him as TOO agreeable to be genuine. Anne will not settle for less, I believe.
I'm confident that she wouldn't. She would have gone to live with Lady Russel and actually had a small inheritance (that Sir Elliot wasn't able to pay out when she married)
@@EllieDashwood 😆
But would Mr. Elliot have married Mrs. Clay after she was set up in London as his mistress? He might have married her if she was a widow, friend of the family, etc. But his mistress? I believe that could have damaged his standing as a Baronet in society. I have my doubts about that.
Having a mistress was not damaging to a Regency man of nobility, especially when the man is single. Even in Austen novels, men simply aren't damaged the way women were for bad sexual behavior and there are a number of men who have mistresses. Look at Mansfield Park for example - the Admiral moves his mistress into the family home as soon as his wife dies, forcing Mary out. And after their affair, while Maria is removed from all society, Henry goes on with his life as he always has. And remember, Mr. Elliot has already demonstrated a very limited regard for the rules of society regarding his wife, having married a lower class woman for her money. At this point he is now rich, and he will have a title, and can marry whoever the h*ll he pleases.
I doubt he would have married her. He doesn't need to. He has detached her from Sir Walter, who now probably will rule out remarriage for ever, so that serves his purpose. And by being an eligible widower he can keep an eye open for the next candidate. I tend to feel a bit sorry for Mrs Clay, a poor widow with children, who really needs to remarry to have any sort of comfortable life. I bet Mr E insinuated marriage, lured her away to London and installed her at his house with that expectation (don't forget as a new widower in mourning he couldn't remarry just yet). But then when he makes no moves towards a wedding she is stuck. A mistress whose little social capital is spent and her reputation is in ruins. She's Lydia Bennett where there is no Mr Darcy to intervene.
@@kayfountain6261 In the book, Austen insinuates that there was just a bit too much confidence in Mr. Elliot's ability to resist her charms. Or to put it another way, Mrs. Clay's charms were very well able to convince him to do as she needed him to be; whether they would was a matter of time and chance.
I don't think she would have married him, especially after seeing Capt Wentworth again, and having all those feelings revived. I think she would have considered it seriously, but ultimately been unable to go through with it.
This seems to cross over interestingly with your matrimonial ads videos. It might be useful to have a video on how you would have written up different matrimonial matrimonial adds. Offer this book the ais the air to a title (but of limited fortune) looking for the the air of a tradesman of substantial fortune alliance.