Building and Discussing FEMALE Space Marines: PROBLEM?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video Jay goes creates female Space Marines for a Warhammer 40k Kill Team and talks about if they should be allowed in game or not! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday! We're streaming Monday-Friday starting at 9PM CST!! JOIN USSSS! Thanks for watching!
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"Your Space Marines could be vikings, they could be medival knights, they could be ninjas, they could be blue, they could be vampires..." Bruh, I'm dying...
Do undead count as humans or as heresy? That's the real gray line.
But I was thinking that if preachers and crusaders exists in the sisters of battle (and they are technically Spartan kings and meatshields respectively) why can't there be a hulking woman in power armour? Not a frail old woman in power armour but a young one in the vanilla set.
its true most of them have armor so you cant see whats inside anyways if you wanted obvious female looking armor get some sisters of battle lol
lol
@@solouno2280 blood angels lady dimitrescus
@@solouno2280 If there is undead and they are skeletons then the ecclesiastic would think they're the emperor's avatar
"They can be Vikings, they can medieval knights, they can be ninjas, they can be blue -" *And that is where I died laughing!*
▶0:00 Color me *_Shocked._* ▶6:36 Just because Malcador wasn't speaking *_FACETIOUSLY._* (i,e, wasn't joking) doesn't pre-suppose that it *_WOULD_*_ be _*_possible._*
@@margaretwood152 bruh
Bruv
Bro.
What
There needs to be more Guard ladies models. They are lore friendly and gives more options other then space nuns.
the last thing we need is MORE GUARD MODELS we already get too many human teams with kill team
There's a new cadian upgrade set with a bunch of female heads that are pretty cool
The new ones have like more or less half of the models (or rather, heads) in the sets be female though.
There are plenty female head options in the new cadian shock troops box btw
The new Cadians are brilliant for this!
Why not use Female Stormcast heads for the faces? The scale would transfer over quite nicely if you ask me. And you get plenty from a kit of Sequitors or Vindictors.
Just for fun I'm thinking of making a female space marine librarian and i am going to use stormcast eternals for the base. That line has so many good parts to work with.
check gamzas video on why there aren’t female space marines
@@jboydayz you mean that idiot that doesnt even like Warhammer and constantly tells people to let the game die?
@@aprogressivegamer7005 no. How is he an idiot, from what I’ve seen of his content he talks about 3d printing and ‘buttermilk bobs’.
The stormcast heads are too small compared to marine heads imo
I’ve been teaching my niece and nephew about 40K the past few months. Telling them about the lore & all, a few weeks ago they told me they want to play the game & in particular Kill Team. Grabbed some of my Orks & Blood Angels and we played a few games of Kill Team. Last week they asked me if I could help them paint their own armies & I said sure. My nephew went with Black Templars, my niece asked me if all Space Marines were male & I told her lore wise yes but if she wanted to make FSM we could kitbash & make lore about her FSM. She wasn’t to excited about that idea, she was thinking of going with World Eaters CSM & Khorne demons, we walked into the local hobby store; my nephew goes & grabs the Black Templars box set. My niece was looking around the store then she tells me to come to what she’s looking at. She was looking at the Sisters combat patrol box; she said “I thought there weren’t female space marines” I told her that’s the sisters not space marines. Then it clicked with her she remembered me telling her about the sisters & how crazy & fanatical they are so I got her the combat patrol. When we came back home I asked her if she wanted to kitbash & make the sisters FSM & she said no, there crazy & fanatical maybe as crazy as space marines but just regular humans. She said something along the lines of space marines need all the surgeries to make them super human & to fight all the crazy stuff in 40K, sisters just need the holy trinity & faith in the god emperor & the psycho nuns are ready to go. If people want to make their own FSM fine with that, gave my niece the option but it just made her more of a sisters fan since there regular humans. The idea of ol Fabious Bile making FSM would make for some interesting lore if GW wanted to do that. I’d read it some of Biles stories are crazy!
That's such a cool argument for sisters!
Fabulous Bill doing it would be cool. I think female chaos marines would probably be a lot more doable than regular female space marines. "Bill fucked with the geneseed" has a lot less lore baggage than doing it on the loyalist side. On the loyalist end, Cawl is getting executed for fucking with the geneseed if they do female space marines. That's cool she found an army she likes though. Sisters are fun to paint up too. I think outside of the hobby, people think we look at Space Marines like the protagonists of the story because that's how they view it so they view it as exclusionary. Whereas in the hobby, they're just another shade of evil in the universe. The most commonly played shade of evil, but a shade of evil nonetheless.
@@JohnathanJWells The fact that the sisters are just regular humans that have extreme faith in the emperor just really appealed to my niece. We’re doing a home brew order for her sisters. Was going to make them Order of the Bloody Rose, but she came up with the idea of a order judging heretics, traitors or being given orders from the inquisition to go judge heretics & came up with the Order of Judgment. She came up with that idea when we opened the combat patrol & I told her what the penitent engine was
@@Bonesawisready926 when I first started telling my niece & nephew about 40K they asked me who were the good guys, I told them their isn’t any good guys. Just a scale on who’s the most bad/insane with Necrons, dark eldar, & chaos fighting for the top spot. Nyds & orks sorta at the bottom of that scale since they’re basically animals going on instinct. Fabulous Bill doing some gene seed manipulation is always a great story
Space nun-jas go brrr
Wow your paint job on their faces are immaculate! +1 success
I guess I should be extra thankful for the crowd that I hobby and game with, because we would just never have to have this argument.. I find being strict with lore and model customizing almost antithetical to what mini wargaming is for me, and I’m glad I don’t mess with such folk
Exactly. Strict traditionalist like that are the same kinda people you’d never want to game with cuz they’d tell you “oh you can run with that weapon” or whatever. They’re just ruining the fun for no reason
im strict with lore but if someone homebrews something to play with why not, its non canon and its fun. like im going to homebrew an order of SoB who since the resurrection of roboute have dedicated themselves to him as a living god of sorts, is it canon? no. is it fun? yes. would i want them implemented in actual canon? im not sure. so basically build FSM if you want some of the models look cool but im not a fan of changing a pretty fundamental thing about the faction
@@NostalgiaVivec it’s not changing, only adding in specific circumstances!
I'm super impressed by the way anvil industries were able to make those heads so feminine without hair. Love their products
GW still has issues with female faces, at least human female faces.
@@Bonesawisready926 i will never forget that sister painted whit a shaved beard
@@Bonesawisready926 I've found a lot of them ok, the studio painting style with high contrast and hard highlights tends to exacerbate the worst sins.
A more gentle shade like in the vid works much better
You mentioned Fabius Bile, but also, Belesarius Cawl could probably do it and Crovus Coraax DEFINATELY know how to create Gene-seed... if he could ever get pause his Warp-rampage Hate-on against Fulgrim and get over the failure of his Raptors enough to try.
I think some chapters could utilise longer hair styles, such as blood angels or space wolves
space wolves dont just need long hair though, they need beards as well
@@thorveim1174 tell that to Ragnar
"The process by which Space Marines are created relies inherently on the hormonal and biological make-up of the human male, meaning that only males can be subjected to the transformation."
-Horus Heresy 2.0 Rule Book.
Nah, Deathwatch didn't steal those hyperphase swords from the Necrons. I know because the Necron hyperphase weapons aren't as good as what Deathwatch use. No, I'm not bitter, why'd you ask?
...I just want my Skorpekhs to be even more killy, is that too much to ask...
Skorpekhs are objectively one of the best models in the game so i agree. Those guys look like they could cleave a terminator in half.
I'm surprised at how articulate you were. I like this take, and I hope you keep speaking your mind on things.
Honestly, bringing up Bile was a pretty decent point, because chaos is the most likely place to find FSMs. To my knowledge while there haven't been actual, technical space marines with their own geneseed and modifications, women in the traitor legions is already a thing. In Storm of Iron a guardswoman wound up bonding with the daemonic armor of an Iron Warrior (technically a possession but it might almost qualify depending on the definition) and in the Fabius Bile books the leader of the 12th Millennial of the Emperor's Children is Lady Savona, whose been granted mutations by Slaanesh that allow her to be tall enough to wear modified legion armor and physically capable enough to be accepted by the Emperor's Children (even if most don't openly acknowledge her authority as it goes against tradition). I think the most direct analogy would be in Harrowmaster where a dark mechanicus biologist created his own genetically modified soldiers who wore stolen power armor, some of whom were female (their mods weren't the same as astartes, its not really gone into what exactly the dark mech did to them, just that's different).
Fabulous Bill introducing female Space Marines also comes with the interesting note that Bile isn't really a servant of Chaos. This actually leaves a lot of narrative flexibility for them to defect to the Imperium. (To spread the wealth) I've also heard it suggested the missing Primarch's could be revealed to be female. Heck even with Cawl's unlocking of Primaris it would be easy to say that he made some just because he could, very Cawl. There are a million ways to do it, there just needs to be the will on GW's side to do it. All they need to add is some head sculpts.
The missing Primarchs have already been referred by the other Primarchs as their "brothers" Sure you could retcon but its unlikely
@@Bakey154 Also, retconning anything to the missing Primarchs takes away the glorious way in which GW has left the door open for homebrewed Chapters linking back to them. I never want to know anything more about those two characters then we do right now, purely for the reason it closing that door.
Funny how no one mentions modern day army....
For the most hardcore sections of the military, paratroopers/American Special Operations Forces, women make up less than 10%. Even then they are not generally front line combatants.
The answer is actually very simply, strength. Yeah, they have trouble passing the same fitness test that men take.
Even in other forces such as Navy/Army, women have an easier fitness test than their male counter parts.
If the Emperor wanted his space marines to be the best fighters no question asked then they would all be men.
I remember taking my fitness exam for the Royal Navy and watching women finish the running sooner than us (bleep test) because they didn't have high requirements like us.
So no, women shouldn't be in the Adeptus Astartes unless the chapter that they are in are not fighters.
A good example of sex difference from my history was in the RAF, the military was terrified of what would happen to a female pilot if she was shot down in Afghan territory that they made it so only men would fly recon there. A friend of mine loved flying but had less opportunities to fly than her male counterparts so she was regulated to test flying and local (UK) ops. In the end after they put her in Intelligence she just retired as it wasn't what she signed up for. I agree with the military's decision, if a man is shot down and captured, he is tortured and killed. A woman on the other hand is probably tortured, raped and then killed. Looks way worse in the eyes of the public.
Also trans UFC fighter Fallon Fox (who was taking his blockers and following all of the rules set by the UFC) still one sided a fight that was supposed to be close. Her opponent suffered a rare case of a broken Orbital Bone. That is very rare to occur especially in female boxing. Fallon Fox was forced into retirement by the UFC as a number of female fighters began to refuse to enter the cage with her which meant it was hard to make the fights profitable.
There was also the USA's national women's soccer team that had won internationally, losing to high school boys 15-0
They are sci fi superhuman soldiers with two hearts, why tf would they augment a female initiante a purposefully leave them weaker? Their human body doesent matter jn the first place, its a template thats built upon and improved, space marines are not stronger because they were born males.
See, I like the fact that the imperium is a fanatical and mostly idiotic theocracy, and so the idea of Space Marines/"brothers"/monks and Sisters of Battle/nuns being separate kind of appeals to me. Totally agree that the Sisters could do with more variety, though, if they're going to keep it that way. And obviously people should kitbash whatever the heck they want.
Mostly, though, I'm just fascinated by the fact that you made this video and the comments section is... *checks notes* completely friendly and constructive and people are just talking about ways they would do it and what they like about it. Made me remember why this is one of my favorite Warhammer-adjacent channels on the Youtoobz.
Jay I love you but you're either arguing in bad faith or just misinformed. Games Workshop reiterated last year in the Age of Darkness Horus Heresy rulebook that the process for creating Space Marines only works on men. That IS the lastest canon, so that's why I think you're either arguing in bad faith or just misinformed.
Edit - I found the quote from the Age of Darkness book:
“The process by which Space Marines are created relies inherently on the hormonal and biological make-up of the human male, meaning that only males can be subjected to the transformation.”
How bout a source ?
@@Insane_Kane Can you read? I gave my source, the Age of Darkness rulebook.
@@Insane_Kane I don't have my copy in hand at the moment but a simple Google search found the quote:
“The process by which Space Marines are created relies inherently on the hormonal and biological make-up of the human male, meaning that only males can be subjected to the transformation.”
As by much as people get all weird about it, there's a female cop in my area that is an absolute badass strong silent tank of a human. She could definitely be a space marine.
I heard the emperor didn't want them because he didn't want them to have a method of independent procreation, as they would break off and be a threat to humanity like the chaos space marines.
Considering that Chaos Marines did that anyway and geneseed itself is enough to accomplish this, it's just another of the Emperors failures it seems
but the marien pp don't even work
He could have made all SM eunucs or something. Like, he had superscience to make the supersoldiers, but can't make them infertile? come on...
could just have some lore bits where female space marines have their wombs removed for some extra organ storage space and it prevents breeding
Except that part of the process could just involve removal of ovaries
Hey Jay! I think your catchphrase should be "Super easy, barely an inconvenience"! I think it would totalllllly catch on :D
Jay!!! Some guy used a time machine to go back to 2017, created a successful TH-cam channel and started using "Super easy, barely an Inconvenience" as a carchphrase. He stole your idea!!
This is always a loaded question lmao. The only correct stance is 'do what you want with your army.' You can ignore the lore and do what you want as it's really just loose guidelines and suggestions, but don't expect the actual Canon to change.
Excellent job converting them by a simple head swap. That is by far the most realistic way to do it!
It's how I went about a female Kahl too! Space Marines and Votann have a similar design philosophy: big, stocky, and brawny. Females and males wouldn't really be much different at all for either, and we see that with the Hearthkyn Warriors as well that DO have male and females!
@@lightningwolf788 did you give she-Kahl a beard? We all know that female dwarves have beards😂
The most realistic way to do it is not to do it.
@@falsehero2001 why though?
Because realistically, via the creating process, a female astartes would look like a dude completely. Masculine head face and voice to match their masculine body. Heck any space marine in lore could actually be female, they just identify with masculine pronouns because they are all masculine, male and female in a masculine brotherhood.
oh and the faces turned out amazing, the purple undercoat is a great idea i havent done before, will give it a try
I'd kind of like to see that paint job repeated on a bearded face just to see how it comes out.
stormcast heads are also perfectly sized to diversify your head options as well. people are throwing these at you as soon as you show interest anyway, especially from the dominion box
I beg to differ about primaris and stormcast, but i think stormcast fit better firstborn scaled minis
@@DarkMargenal Stormcast and Primaris are the same scale.
@@pinoarias8601 yeah but the heads are too thin in my POV...
I know it's not really something about the video but what paints do you use for priming and zenithal
▶0:00 Color me *_Shocked._* ▶6:36 Just because Malcador wasn't speaking *_FACETIOUSLY._* (i,e, wasn't joking) doesn't pre-suppose that it *_WOULD_*_ be _*_possible._*
I don't need female Space Marine - and mine are all guys - I appreciate that they added female Astra Militarum tho.
Also: Sisters of Battle are a much more epic representation, think about it, they have no body augumentation or extra organs - they're still much more human than a Space Marine
Through Discipline, Willpower and FAITH they can go toe to toe with anything a Space Marine faces as well.
The way they treat faith makes them very unappealing even if it does result in one of the most awesome characters in celestine :D
Whenever people argue who are better, we just remind them thst the Sisters didn't betray the emperor and tear the whole Imperium asunder in traitorous fire
They are two entirely different things, and sisters were designed a bit creepily and their whole shtick is literally just dying
The big Sisters of Battle problem is a lack of flavor. If space nuns with guns doesn't appeal then the faction has nothing for you. It would be like if all Orks were Goffs, all Space Marines were Ultramarines, or the Imperial Guard were all Cadian.
Doesn't matter what system the Sisters are from it's all the same limited look, weapons and color scheme.
@@channelsofash same limited color scheme? They are your models, paint them how you want. Kitbash stuff, get alternate bodies.
This is just wrong.
If you want female warriors in the grim dark universe, you have the sister of battle.
What if you dont like nuns? SOB is extremely monothone
I don’t want female space marines, because that means gw has an excuse to make more space marine models.
Maybe it's the beer in me but I felt compelled to throw my 2 cents in that nobody asked for.
I served in the U.S. Marine Corps many years ago. It's a common statement to say that all Marines are my brothers.
That doesn't mean that all U.S. Marines are men. There are a whole lot of female Marines. When encountering said females I will refer to them as my sisters, but if there isn't one around then it's still referred to as a brotherhood. A person can say that is misogynistic but it's not intended to be. It's just how things are said.
I think the biggest argument against female Space Marines is due to how females have been treated in the past and what has been "beaten" into our heads. Today females can have combat jobs in the military. They have proven that they have that ability. During my time women were given jobs that were less likely to actually see combat but it was possible. Before my time they were given jobs that shouldn't see combat at all by the rules of war.
As strange as it may seem, I think my generation is in a mixed mindset toward female warriors. There have been very few real ones, due to rules and laws, so when we do see some it's either super sexy and hot or an abomination that goes against everything we were taught.
I know you were talking about game lore and not real life but I think real life is part of the reason people have problems with female space marines.
im not sure about your overall point of "theres perceptions of a female fighting force that persists from reality into the game" because idk anyone with a problem with any of the current female models be it the new fem cadians or the Sisters of Battle. it comes down to lore.
People don't have issues with sisters of battle, knight pilots, imperial guard or half a dozen other examples of women in 40k. The issue is that space marines are an all male faction and in current year some find that unacceptable in science fiction - despite 40k and the Imperium literally being made to be the opposite of progressive values.
They Marines did a test and compared mixed gender units and all-male units. The mixed gender units performed poorly across all metrics in comparison but they changed the rules anyway. It’s political and ideological and hurts combat performance. Our infantry is going to get slapped around in the next major conflict by any enemy male only units. If we under any real threat, this never would have happened and it’s disgraceful. Please leave your veteran status out of this.
Why space marines choose to not wear helmets still confuses me
Female Primarchs more civilized? I can understand that Big E thought it was a joke by Malcador. The infighting by women is horrible. Especially if they are related at times.
yeah, I learned that thru my female friend at work, She got sabotaged and backstabbed by another female worker. If men are more physical when it comes to aggression, women are more psychological which is scary for me.
I built an entire army out of those two 'adventurer' figures - HEAVILY converted the poses, all new heads (mostly converted Dark Elf heads), weapons, etc. This was back in '94-'96. Jervis J was NOT impressed at Toronto Grand Tourney - he thought the idea of Female Space marines was bunk. THAT said, I should have just built them as Sisters.
For those of a mind, we have the Adepta Sororitas -GREAT figs and lore.
Those two figs didn't sell well as the were only advertised for the Timescape supplement for Talisman (!). The were only available in strangely distributed blisters. I ordered my 50 through GW UK mail order.
That is a herculean task!
Love this war story
And Jervis can shove it! 😂
jervis J sounds fucking bunk to be honest, If someone goes up to a game with a bunch of sick customized female space marine army and their response is "ew girls thats dumb": They fucking suck lmao
Jervis sounds like a cunt.
How did you convert 50 chunks of lead?
I dont think FSM would work for 40k, for both lore and meta reasons.
- Inquisitors wont like it
- Sisters DEFINITELY wont like it
- They would end up looking the exact same as male space marines after all those enhancements
- There is already an all-female human army that are basically female space marines
- You can't just "change" the lore here, there's a lot of books that specifically say that space marines are all male... gonna be difficult to retcon that compared to "well necrons seemed like they were just chaos robots, but I guess theyre actually a part of this ancient empire".
Meta-wise... Look, I think its perfectly OK for space marines to be the one faction in this one tabletop game set in a scifi/fantasy universe to have an all male group. I think its perfectly OK and I dont see why that, specifically, has to change.
If you wanna make your own female space marines... go for it? Like, who cares, make your own army, why not? Anyone who says you cant is dumb and doesnt understand that 40k tabletop is about you making your own army and doing what you want with them.
As for RT, thats pretty much an entirely different game. Lets be honest it can't really be used as an example.
If GW does do FSM, they'd need to deal with a lot of baggage... and we all know that GW aint good at handling baggage...
Actually, with Malcador's quote, this would imply that a female primarch would be needed, and the primarchs were needed for the space marines to exist.
A big part of the fan-canon is accepting that maybe one of the lost primarchs was a woman... but there's lore that suggests there isnt. Without that, you wont have female space marines.
Because space marines are very specific about how they're created.
Honestly I think GW just needs to diversify the SOB army more. Maybe have a unit variation that gives them bulkier armor or something.
The Emperor did not want to make space marines detached and a threat to humanity. That's why he didn't want to give them an independent way of procreation.
This was never about logic, sadly.
you act like any of those things stopped anything else in the 40k universe
@@lv100Alice I always chuckle when people tell me something "isnt realistic in the lore" like GW isnt rewriting it every day for 20+ years now
You handeled this topic far better than templin Institute, he took the low road and as a dick you were nothing but kind and you gave straight up lore facts not some pseudo philosophical bullshit about canon not mattering. Congrats man!
If the Sisters of Battle had the same amount of themes as Space Marines (Example: Blood Angels being... Angelic, Space Marines being Furr- Vikings, Ultramarines being Greco Roman etc.) People wouldnt need to wish Femmarines
I would die for charcharodons sororitas
I don't want to rep someone's barely disguised fetish. I'm just grateful a good 40 percent of Stormcast Eternals are lady-types and don't have high heels and boob plates.
Bro you haven't heard of the different Ordos of the Sororitas? Alicia Dominica founded the Order of Our Martyred Lady, while the 6 other members of her squad founded their own Orders too. Those then split off into further orders, similarly to how the Astartes chapters were formed.
Sisters are Astartes but unique and their own thing, but people still complain
Okey, what about ALL other factions ? i would like other models for my guard than cadians and it would not need a lore change and i think everyone agrees that we do not need 16 lieutenants, but we do not need 3 new female lieutenants we need new models for other factions like BOF,SOS,AM...
My headcanon (supported by nothing but vibes) is that the 2 lost chapters were women and the Emperor was big mad about it and had them erased from history (but maybe not necessarily from existence)
What are people talking about? Female space marines been in warhammer for decades, they called sisters of battle. What's all fuzz about?
Honestly don't hate your idea about Fabius Bile creating "female space marines" as part of his numen project. Also opens up room for more Slaaneshi body horror stuff and perhaps even corrupted Sisters of Battle. Neat idea.
You put an extra effort in editing this video !
There has been note within the Horus Heresy 2.0 rule books that the Space Marine augmentation process is reliant on male biology to function, but I do get that Jay doesn't enjoy HH as much so wouldn't have read them.
As for my thoughts, I don't mind people's personal hobby having them just like I don't mind custom chapters or making their own force within a chapter. Just don't like it being pushed on people or acting like it should be canon. I'll probably grab some of the exo lord heads myself for fun.
Given the existing lore, which has been retouched in 2022 in the previously mentioned HH books, I don't think there should be female space marines retconned into the setting.
IF they are to be added, have it be part of a modification of Primaris geneseed and the new humans from Fabius Bill for the Chaos side. Given the physical potential which can be seen with women at their physical peak, compared to men at their peak, having the female primaris coming from a more involved process would be best to explain the rarity of them.
In terms of the creative options and flexibility, I'd prefer for there to be more options on offer for the Sisters of Battle so it is easier to make a custom force or alternative force in canon.
It's also really not a problem from a hobby perspective.
Just frame the models as a sect of Sisters of Battle or some previously unknown branch of the Astra Militarum with experimental gear and play the models using Space Marine rules.
It doesn't have to be that complicated. Sometimes it feels like some hobbyists can't see the trees for their wanting to set the forest on fire because it isn't to their exact liking.
GW would never do a retcon like that, and the majority of people asking for FSMs are not wanting a retcon, but an addition.
As in they're introduced in the current setting, like primaris marines basically.
I disagree on your last point though. I feel like diluting the sisters of battle's aesthetic would be the wrong thing to do. It would basically just turn them into space marines.
Female space marines shouldn't exist, not only because of the raw genetics of geneseed capabilities, but because men are genetically guaranteed to outperform even the top percentage of woman, sure some world's do have genetically differing people like catachan, so maybe they can be hand waved to be just as strong, but then as abhumans they can't take Geneseed on a genetic level, otherwise then why not have tons of rattling snipers making shots at 4 to 5 miles away
@@Em90000l I don't think it would be diluting the designs, and would be more like how the Dark Angels have a different aesthetic to Ultramarines or the various regiments for the Imperial Guard.
I can understand that it would make them into a form of space marines, being power armoured and various cultural roots for designs, but it would also be very fitting. There are the archetypical design languages for 40k but nothing in theory stopping a Sister Order having design aspects which draw on historical Hindu or Islamic design languages for their ornamentation. The galaxy is a big place and we see the diversity in the Guard and Marines, so why not Sisters.
It's ok that Space Marines are exclusively male and are a brotherhood the same way it is ok that the SoB are exclusively female and are a sisterhood. They can both exist in the same space as the Imperial Guard who are multi-gendered.
Most of the people that argue for female space marines, don't usually play the game. The other reason for the argument is that space marines are the poster children of 40k. It doesn't matter if the sisters of battle exist, they are not the main representatives of the warhammer 40k brand.
Pretty much. If men are the main representatives of something, it has to change because that is unacceptable.
you realize this is a baseless assumption and there is a lot of people who want fsm who also are in the hobby. This whole “people who disagree with me aren’t true fans” is just culture war bullshit.
@qwer9676 1. You are trying to deflect the argument in a different direction away from the original point. Secondly, I never said or implied anything about being a true fan. All I did was put forward a perspective and supporting reason.
@@Steelstriker You started straight out of the gate with “Most of the people that argue for female space marines, don’t usually play the game”. I’m not changing the subject because that IS the subject and saying most people aren’t playing the game is both a baseless assumption and implies that people behind the argument are not credible because you think they don’t play.
@@qwer9676 most of the people who argue for them when asked if they play say they don't. Alongside this, the argument for fsm has taken off because of a minority internet community decided that a fictional universe that has a group that is exclusively male is wrong. So how is my argument baseless?
Personally, I think it is fair and right if a fictional universe has a fictional faction with only warrior men who do warrior men stuff. But I like your Fabious Bile approach and, if I am not mistaken, he already made early ubermenschen both male and female. There will probably not be a new Chaos Space Marine box until 2050, but maybe an upgrade sprew once Creations of Bile becomes a standalone faction. Around 2040.
I think the issue isn't that you cannot have a fictional faction only of warrior men, rather than that the options to have a coed faction, let alone a only warrior women faction, is rather limited in 40k. Since Space Marines is by many leagues the faction with most options, it makes sense that is where people direct their attention.
@@kristoffer9400 Understandable. To clarify, I have no problem with Female Space Marines either. I just wanted to express that, on a lore level, it should be ok to have limits. If the story then breaks through these limits the inclusion of Fem Marines becomes oh so more impactful.
@@kristoffer9400 How are your options limited? You can kitbash whatever you want. I'll be honest, people who bitch about there not being female space marines, it's an opinion I've never seen brought up in real life. I think most of the people who want that don't even participate in the hobby and are just saying shit to get positive reactions on twitter. Nobody actually cares in real life, and you can kitbash female marines all you want.
You do know Sisters of Battle, Sisters of Silence, female Inquisitors, female Guardsmen, and multiple female Xenos warriors in power armor exist in 40k, right?
@@jaegerbomb269, Yes, I do. But this still doesn't address my point.
Adepta Soritas doesn't allow for near the options that space marines do.
Sisters of silence have like four model sets out of 19 for custodes, and can barely be played on their own.
Inquisitors aren't an army
My point wasn't that you couldn't. It was that the options are very limited. Since space marines are by far the faction most favored by GW, so I get the fuss about female space marines.
I think there was a fanmade lost Primarch that was a lady. She was the Primarch of a Mesoamerican inspired legion and I think their gimmick was areal combat. I don’t think any kitbashed minis were made but art exists somewhere. I’ve yet to find any of said art because the artist was bullied off the internet. Thanks, 40k fandom.
I don’t mean to be an ass but they are called the sons of the emperor for a reason. Also why make a female primarch when you have a perfectly good template for the male ones which is proven to work. Plus we can’t have any primarchs being called mommy by the space marines can we?
Why couldn't Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl create daughters for Roboute Guilliman. Cawl does believe in using all of humanity to fight the enemies of Mankind.
I swear the sisters of battle were meant to be female space marines or at least the equivalent of a female space marine
They were but some people are never happy
The argument you didn’t bring up that I think is most crucial is that the survival rate for candidates to become space marines is incredibly low for the males as is.
The odds of many or any females candidates making it through, let alone at the same rates as the males is so minuscule I doubt that the chapters would allocate their resources towards something with such a high fail rate.
The first female Navy seal only passed last year, and women have been trying for years.
That being said
Rule of cool > everything else
the Imperium of man well known for caring about wasted resources with all that efficient war fighting they do
oh wait ...... they dont and never have been efficient or care about resource use
He did address this tbf. The male space marines are already such stretches from what we consider humans that it really does turn into sci fi wumbo jumbo. Organs are extracted, replaced, new ones added, bones reformed along with muscle tissue to the point that.. Again, these are not dudes.
Spartans in halo have no problem accepting females, and that is my point. Neither halo or 40K listen to modern science, our biology, because a space faring society is so advanced compared to us that any comparison is pointless. And of course obligatory "Malcador said it'd be doable"
And this is the best argument against female space marines ... females are weaker and slower than males (on average). Strength of the individual before upgrade relates to the strength of the individual once they are a marine.
Why would any chapter want to create slower weaker marines?
@@anonsphone4323 This is the 41st milennia man. Men and women fight with equal proficiency in the guard. Sisters of Battle are the greatest non augmented soldiers the imperium has to offer. And space marines are so far from human with an entirely augmented bone and muscle structure, completely changed organs with new organs put in as well that realism cant even be used. Astartes are so far from impossible for modern science that we cannot use the realism argument.
These gals are something I would ask someone to make for me because I can't paint faces I'm terrible at it
In one of the additions of space Marine codex (believe it's the fifth) you did mention that the genetics for a Astrades is on the y-chromosome specifically.
retcons exist.
@@Mike-zx6sl I for one do not like retcons. Tweaks ok. However a joint venture in necromunda between house Goliath house Escher and house van Saar with perhaps delaque.
@@Mike-zx6sl retcons are lazy af and nobody likes them
@@kappa6109 WH40K lore is a constant retcon though. Also, all lore in 40K is biased and closer to propaganda than actual 'truth'. If you read the God Emperor is the protector of humanity, this is not because it is 'THE' truth but because that is what Imperium wants it's people to think.
@@Morrodin182 that... Is hard to argue against.
Sisters are just cooler than female space marines.
For sure.
Do whatever you want, it's your army; but the fact that sisters exist is just awesome.
And nobody is begging for men in the sisters of battle
Maybe that's because the Sisters are already full with male models. The Combat Box to start building SoB is 1/3 male models. Sure they are not powerarmored etc. but they are there and part of the army, while Space Marines don't have any models. There isn't even a Lotara Sarrin model für World Eaters.
@@kurap1kaa uhh what in the combat patrol is male? The only thing i see is the tortured repentia guy strapped into the dread thing
@@zebur4170 I really tried to find out what Kurap is talking about. Looks like they're referring to the Arco-flagellants, they're 60% male with only 4 female models per unit. The Penitent Engine can be build with a male or female "pilot" so that can't be it.
I mean, Option 2 for how to bring them into lore is... well, we have two missing legions. we know nothing of them. no one knows anything about them other then they existed and they don't now. easy as saying Malcador made the male Primearchs think they only had brothers, have the missing two be sisters who normally had males in the legions because the Emperor wanted to prove a point to Malcador, and that is why when they were taken in by the other legions without questions or other problems, have the reason they were forgotten be big, but so we keep the 50/50 split, have it so one was loyal to the end, but her gene seed was corrupted from the warp really heavily, and the other was a did turn her back on the Emperor, and fell to chaos in a different way to her brothers, waiting in the warp as she trained up a new army.
Reason to have a lady space marine in your arsenal:
She will talk the enemies heads off and make them confused to why she's upset making them apologize for no reason
I just don't see any need to add them honestly, if people want to kitbash their own narrative that's fine, but this is an aspect of 40k worldbuilding that's been around since its inception. Is it so hard to believe that the ruthless imperium of man would only select the biggest, strongest (male) individuals to become the absolute hyper elite of their military?
Your suggestion for some Fabious Bile shenanigans is a better one than just shoehorning them in though
Idk, the existence of the Sisters of Battle, Sisters of Silence, and female Guard members says to me that the Imperium doesn't really care what your gender is as long as you can do the job they want and do it well. Physiology is warped so much in the SM creation process in different ways that I don't really see a reason biological baselines would have much to do with the outcome if they survive it. I agree it would be hard to suddenly write in though, at least without feeling tacked-on
@@alfred8936 I see this argument all the time and it makes no sense whatsoever. I hold zero sympathy with the argument that biological baselines make no difference. Go take a look at the size difference between the biggest female bodybuilders and even amateur male bodybuilders on a similar PED routine. There are size differences between space marines in the lore already which implies that biological baseline amongst males makes a difference to end result. Big Aspirant = Big marine. Small Aspirant = Small marine. Female aspirant = small, weaker marine.
"It's a sci fi universe, anything is possible" Afraid not. They are still biologically human in the same sense that we are. Terra is a future Earth after all, why would the Imperium even want to work harder to make women physically the same as men when they could just use the hundreds of billions of male aspirants already in existence?
With that aside, the aspirant trials for selection (Which occur before any implantation has ocurred) would kill off any female aspirants before they could even get the slightest whiff of gene seed.
Without some pretty horrendous lore contrivances, it's an impossibility.
As for Sisters of Battle, they are specifically used as a loophole from the ruling that "No ecclesiarchy force can contain men under arms" so they use women. Astra Militarum are just bodies holding cheap guns for the meatgrinder, not a highly specialised and selective elite force.
@@WD4wg tfw space marine initiations aren't tests of spiritual and mental fortitude and are actually just bros getting a sick pump in the gym
Love the thinly veiled slight on the Ultramarines 😂🤣
I'm not 100% against lady space marines but seeing as the lore leans so heavily into fraternal brotherhoods, I would expect something similar for lady space marines. Either that or a group of space marines that has abandoned the teachings of the Adeptus Astartes. I guess they'd be traitors at that point.
They already have something similar for ladies, the Adepta Sororitas or Sisters of Battle, but instead of relying on body augmentation to succeed, they rely on faith and absolute religious fervor.
I'm more of a fan of the Sisters of Battle and I'm content with them, but I just find the controversy around female Space Marines so silly. Why does it matter if there are lady Marines? It's a fictional universe and it doesn't hurt the tone or lore of said universe.
Malcadores quote enforces the ani argument. Th emperor would have to specialize the geneseed for the female genome
I like your take on how they could be implemented in the lore at the end. Well thought out I'd say.
I also love how they came out; very well done, especially the faces!
I mean there is also Kawl (Might have misspelled it) for the loyalists in less time than Bile he improved space Marines. he even has direct order from Big E to do it however he wants
@@archonfettI like the idea of Cawl having his own secret space marine legion that’s only women pretty cool
I have no great desire for female marines, won't be doing any for myself. But did I put female head on my daughter's Primaris when she asked? Yup, no problem. Her marine, can do what she want with it. ( My other daughter liked hers 'butch').
“They can be blue,” that killed me 💀
Here's my reason why I don't want female Space Marines,
1.) Make something cooler, Space Marines follow a genetic template and modifying them is heretical. I do have to call this weakish though as the Primaris exist but I also would've preferred they just upscaled old marines so we didn't have this weird old marine/primaris divide and vehicles unable be used between the two on tabletop. GW money machine gotta go brrrrrt though. We have too many Space Marine models, last thing we need is another subrange to this already model dominating faction.
2.) The Sisters of Battle exist. SoB are already practically female space marines. They use the same arsenal and are clad in power armor. If anything maybe they could get a heavier unit that is closer in style to Space Marine armor? It seems like old marines are slowly dwindling so maybe a redesign or refresh of all their old gear gets funneled to the SoB for some heavier infantry. It would be a great way to continue to flush out a faction.
3.) Chaos Lady Marines. Now I can definitely get behind Chaos doing female Space Marines. They are already heretics, why not just do more heresy to increase their ranks even further and be able to essentially now have their own pseudo sisters faction. I've been waiting for this to occur for quite some time and am honestly surprised it hasn't.
4.) Disclaimer: Yes I understand rule of cool is awesome and the lore isn't always exactly linear or set in stone in 40K and yes lore can change. Reason: The current GW lore doesn't allow their existence and for right now I think that's okay. I'm sure it'd be entirely possible for them to lore them into the faction as you'd stated in the video but I'd rather they do something cooler and better. Plus we already have SoB. Maybe something similar to the Votann can come along with a Matriarchy that uses amazing gene enhanced Space Ladies. The galaxy is vast and I'm sure there's plenty of human civilizations out there undiscovered.
Obviously the above are a matter of opinion but I would just rather have a cooler "Female Space Marine" faction than another range addition/refresh. I'm not going to ever not play a game with someone if they bring 3D printed or kit bashed female models, I would just rather GW not add more to an already over-done faction model wise. Great job on the Kill Team!
I recently assembled a bunch of Emperor’s Children and used Sister heads on some because of the reasons you said. Chaos/Slaanesh/Bile absolutely would welcome women with open arms and double an already limited recruitment pool.
It doesn’t double the pool, or even increases it at all. Men are stronger than women, marines are super rare. The very strongest women can never be as strong as the very strongest man. Maybe there’s some head canon why it was need to pour sparse resources into weaker marines, hopefully not that women are inferior to men so let’s make them into men. Men and women are different, not better or worse.
@@mattcheeseman1 Plus isn’t that what corrupted sisters of battle are for.
@@mattcheeseman1 the space marine gene tampering is sci fi bs. You can write it so that any diffrences in combat potential are made equal by the gene seed.
@@mattcheeseman1 the gene seed turns everyone that takes it into clones essentially
so this "durr weaker" argument is dumb cause the gene seed magics them into marines anyway
@@mattcheeseman1 We are talking about a universe with magic and demons. Geneseed makes no sense to begin with.
I don't understand why people go into a fictional universe that they like and then want to change everything that they don't like so that it fits their vision of the world.
The people trying to change it aren't actually in the hobby. They think the Space Marines are the protagonists of the universe, which they are sorely mistaken, there are no protagonists, everyone is a villain. They're just bitching and moaning online for attention because they have no other talents to garner attention. If they could paint, they'd shut up and paint models and put that online for attention. To the people bitching about the lore (though the idea of having Fabulous Bill fuck with the geneseed is a decent idea, I think female chaos marines would be fine in lore, but I don't require it to continue engaging with the hobby) nobody is stopping them from kitbashing their own female marines as a POC for GW.
Because they can...
Its always nerds who cry about their fictional soldier. Please let people enjoy how they change/impact their games
So you are against modding games, making theories, fanfiction, OC's and fanart? Boring
Maybe and hear me out on this one….. they just aren’t taking it as seriously as you Grognards.
I truly don't believe people hate the Idea of female space marines. I think people are just tired of seeing the lore of every popular franchise being re-written and this adding absolutely nothing to said franchise.
Dr Who. Star Trek. Tolkien. Star Wars. Scooby-doo. Cowboy Bebop. Witcher.
How will female space marines make 40K better? Sincerely asking.
That actually is one of the big reasons why I don’t want them added. Frankly when I first got into the hobby I was neural (maybe more on the don’t have them but still more so neutral). It’s only when au saw people demand them be added, not care about lore stuff, and call anyone who pushed back against them a sexist and any other buzzword they wanted that I decided that no these people are acting poorly and don’t deserve what they want.
This. The problem isn't that there'd be a woman in power armor, it's that it'd be yet another woke change to a franchise for little to no reason other than to plant their flag on it.
How does it *hurt* to have female space marines? Also lol at all of those other franchises. Could you be a bigger fake fan? All of those have *always* been progressive. You're just mad that women exist. Adding female space marines gives better representation and makes the biggest army in the game with the broadest support actually inviting to half the population, rather than having the dumbass "no girls allowed" club like it currently has. They already change the lore constantly, Primaris Space Marines were a massive change, the Necrons have gone through at least three major rewrites, and barely anyone complains about those.
@@matthewgagnon9426 “the necrons have gone through three major rewrites, and barely anyone complains about those.” you clearly don’t play necrons.
@@user-Mr-L-of-York I too wish to have my simple "murder all humans"-space terminators back, but we're Egyptians now...
I've always wondered, if GW had added Female Space Marines with the Primaris upgrade would Primaris they be more or less hated?
ive not seen a lot of primaris hate tbf but i think it would be seen as bending the lore to social pressure which even if you like the change is never a good thing.
@@NostalgiaVivec Or maybe it makes the lore and game more inviting to other groups.
@@kristoffer9400 idk im not a super space nun but think the Sisters are cool all the same, theres nothing relatable to me about Space Marines, the closest thing i have in common with orks is they breathe. if your starting point for a hobby is "they should change this so I can get into it" then maybe it isn't for you, that's how I feel about age of sigmar, its not for me, I don't expect them to change things to work better for me. Ive also always found it weird that arguing that female space marines, basically the one faction that is all male, would make women flock to the hobby or that women/girls need FSM to get towards the hobby, seems a bit infantilizing to me and i wouldn't want the same treatment.
@@NostalgiaVivec If you don't think being able to in some way relate to the universe and the factions has anything to do with the appeal of the hobby, then I think we just fundamentally disagree. I am also not saying that you have to relate one to one with a faction, all I am saying is that I understand peoples desires to have a models that appeals to them, and not just the space nuns. Also I think the premise that space marines is the only all male faction, a bit rich, when they are by far the largest and most diverse faction, with most support (by a long shot, btw).
Does it have to be female space marines? No, but I do think there is value to both the hobby in general and to GW as a company to try and make factions that appeal to more diverse groups. Space Marines just happen to be the largest and most featured faction, besides there exist so much retconning and introducing of new elements to the lore, that I think the idea it couldn't be fit into the lore is ridiculous. Especially when the argument devolves into a tirade about a physique and biology, in a setting with demons and magic.
there is nothing in the lore to make it any less inviting as it IS tho no ones stoppping you from saying your space marines were female ther fully armored you cant see whats inside anyways and if they were they wouldnt be female anymore cuz the process of space marines turns into somthing else entirely the men arent even men anymore they are super powered sexless beings with no sex organs bred purely for combat.......
So the solution is to put very slightly female "shaped" heads on normal (male) Space Marine bodies? I dont get it.
While the job was well done, they don’t really look like woman, and that is sorta the reason I don’t see it really working in lore sense like, sure, go for what you want, power to you as a player, but, a space marine isn’t a human, they are soldiers, they lose their identity and become that, sure some have roles and personality, but that is the writers job, otherwise, at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter, if you view the space marines as male marines then it’s not the point of the marines
Excellent head painting tutorial.
I remember making a female space marine scout unit back in the 90's using the original scout kit and escher ganger heads. Looked crap but made my marines look different
Still have any pics of that?
@@grahamcarpenter691 I wish I did
Loved the technique on the heads. They turned out fantastic.
Also like your take around the FSM topic. I think the same could be done with Cawl so that they're not just randomly shoehorned in, but I feel like having lady marines introduced to the setting due to some chaos/warp shenanigans would make for an overall more interesting story then "Welp, Cawl did Cawl things and now we're here." The grey space in between the Imperium and Chaos forces could always use a little more exploration, and this is a case where the Imperium could grudgingly follow Chaos' lead as opposed to the usual other way around.
I don't think it'd work with Cawl because he already pulled the Primaris out of his attic, and they too are all men. Him suddenly saying that this secret project can now include women would lack gravitas, unless you're willing to go full grimdark/derp and cripple for being a rush job answering a sudden necessity for more warm bodies.
I think the Imperium doubling down on no female Space Marines in spite of Chaos' use would be more interesting, and since there's nothing stopping you from, say, coming up with fanon for your custom chapter that has a unique mutation in the geneseed that either turns them into women or is compatible only with women, it would add a bit of noble drama.
@@cecilsmith2061 It could absolutely work with Cawl. It doesn't have to be part of the initial primaris project he was working on, but a response to both an increasing need to expand marine recruitment, and Bile doing it first. Hell, you could even say it was just something Cawl found when looking at records of the Cursed 21st Founding one day.
The setting is propped up by literal space magic. The only thing that's really stopping it from happening is the will of GW and some good writing to make it fit in a way that isn't just tokenism shoehorned in. That's it.
@@Huckleberry_Sid I admit that it would be interesting to give it ties to the cursed founding... 🤔
Tbh I think Space Marines would call female Space Marines brother still. I don't know why, it's just the right kind of silly.
In Star Wars the Empire refers to female officers as sir.
like Hulk Hogan back when he was on cocaine
everyone is brother
@@aprogressivegamer7005 Brother! Brother! Dude! Brother brother!
There's a massive disparity from the consensus of agreement in the comments and the ratio of up and downvotes. Gross dudes get mad, downvote, and probably don't even watch. Whatever. Enragement is engagement too!
I think it would be pretty funny if GW just added a couple female head options for the next generic primaris marines set and said nothing about it.
Honestly for me I never could figure out why sooooooo many people get butt hurt at the idea of female space marines. The way I look at it is 1) Everything in 40k is space magic fiction and is in no way reality based so you can do what you want. 2) Once you buy the game and the models they are yours to do as you please. Whether the super soldier under all that armor is a man or a woman it doesn't change their stats or how they work in the game. It's just aesthetics at that point. If people can buy third party models and use them as counts-as for guardsmen, why not some lady heads for female space marines? Do what makes you happy and have fun gaming. That's all that matters.
in a universe with that level of augmentation i dont see any plot reason it wouldnt be fine
The thought of some dude getting butthurt about women space marines is honestly cracking me up. Stories get retconned all the time, it doesn't hurt anyone. This is all make believe.
Again fiction can lose its appeal with bad writing sometimes exclusivity makes things more interesting
True, but imagine if someone wanted to make male Amazonians or male Night-sisters.
@@owlofdreams8091 Then that would be different. Different things are different from each other. Shocking
I do think there should be more female Imperial Guard. As for Space Marines, I don't think they should change the lore, but if you want female space marines, just 3D print some.
It makes sense for more female models to be in the Imperial Guard. After all, there are entire female only guard regiments.
It would be funny if you argued as hard for male sisters of battle. But no, it always has to be female space marines
Simple answer is NO! Gamesworkshop Made the game and said NO Women Marines Years ago. That’s it End of discussion.
Your lore Argument is worthless because while Malcador may not have been joking The EMPEROR was and IS the Single most Powerful Psychic and would Know if Malcador was joking or not and in Lore HE decided no women marines.
You want female Space Marines for your at home army fine but just like you can’t use plastic army men for an official army or Lego mini people as part of lore accurate army you can’t use female marines and should NOT cry to the company.
Why are there no girls allowed in the Space Marines? Because they are brother monks, that's why.
I've been trying to find a video on how to fix heads onto marines with a sort of collar - i can see you're using something like that at the end of the vid - have you got a seperate one on this? I'm a noob, sorry
It kind of seems irrelevant to have female space marines when there are the sisters of battle which often fight besides the space marines and their armor is as good if not better since they work under the ecclesiarchy.
So why do we have male space dwarfs? We already have male space Marines...
@@rakelodakel they're an entirely separate race from humans, so your statement holds no weight.
@@lohengrin9127 So are Astartes. They are literally described as not human.
Also, I don't see how their humanity or lack thereof has anything to do with anything.
@@rakelodakel why do we have female eldar then? We already have sisters of battle.
@@FusionFox-ih6hr exactly.
Hi from France. This female space marine subject doesn't come out nowhere. It's just the ideology of the moment that we bring in Warhammer by force. Today, is it possible to create a fictional universe without sticking it to our vision of society? Female space marines are just a new market share for the Games Workshop company business, and you give them reason to do so. Ethnic quotas, diversity and gender equity have nothing to do in the GRIMDARK universe of Warhammer 40000. Seriously, It is the worst universe in which one can live, the most unequal societies. And Who is asking for men in the sisters of battles or the sisters of silence?? Sorry for my spelling.
The players. We want them.
@@ONIMOT100 no WE don’t
@@CJ-kw8vc Nope, we do. The fact this consistently comes up and there have been plenty of majority Pro-FSM polls done, shows that a decent chunk of the playerbase wpuld be down to have them or just be neutral
@@ONIMOT100 "The players, we want" : What an argument! A fine example of vainness and narcissism.
Obviously, you do not represent all the players. Can you tell us why you want them? Will you fight to have men in the sisters of battle too??
Sisters have men in their army, don't they?
I didn't watch the video yet, but I am strongly against women Space Marines.
Just like I am strongly against men Sisters of Battles (or Bros of Battle).
Space Marines are supposed to be like templars, while SoB are like nuns.
It doesn't make sense to change that
Ngl i feel like "Women Space Marines arent lore freindly" kinda lost any weight when Primaris Marines arrived.
If Cawl can fuck with the creation of standard marines, then its easy to make Female Marines.
Kitbashes are way cooler than lore friendly
It's funny you added the chaos idea! I had a very similar idea. Let there be chaos female space marines and then the imperium is on the backfoot and they have to then create "normal" female space marines. I like it, and I think it could be fun
That Malcador quote shows such a lack of awareness into female group dynamics by the author it's hilarious.
If you want to see rivalry taken to eleven just walk into any group of women and watch the pettiness, the drama, the ruthlessness, the jealousy and back-stabbing going on.
Male rivalry is necessary to establish hierarchy. After that is set the group can function cohesively under the supervision of the leader. (this gets things done - ensuring food supply, building things, protection, etc)
Females don't work in hierarchical groups but usually use the collaborative approach. (this is useful for raising children and coordinating in maintaining a household, doing chores, etc.)
The differences in the approach and the results is most easily seen in the Bear Grylls Island survivor groups (1 group all females, 1 group all males) - just watch the summaries on youtube, no need to waste time with boring male group getting things done and watching the unending drama of the female group.
I like the idea Bile realised there's no reason for no female space marines, and chaos legions with newly created bile marines are equal-opportunities (for evil).
Whatever abomination bile cooks up would hardly be called female or human for that matter.
Space marine geneseed augments the body, and enhances what's there, females are inherently worse on a genetic level when it comes to combat, physically, mentally, and every way
plot twist all space marines are women
You can do whatever you want, I just don't want GW to change lore for political reasons.
There are plenty of Females in Warhammer Lore.
Who actually desperately wants the lore to change to have specifically female space marines? and Why? what would it add to the lore, that you couldn't do with Sisters of Battle, or just a normal non-modified human?
If you want female space Marines to exist, they would have to be a new thing. and there would have to be reaaaal good reaons for their existance
This just seems like click bait.
Why is SOB everyone's answer to this, what if you don't like SOB and really jive with dark angels or Salamanders and then get told you're wrong and we don't want to play with you if you make them female. Imagine the shoe was on the other foot and you were told by a large swathe of the community you can only play X faction and we won't recognise them if you make them male? No one ever states you can't have misters of battle, just that FSM are *insert ridiculousness here* and not allowed. And GW have never actually said FSM aren't going to be a thing and could never be a thing. Imagine if the missing primarchs were female and their legion's female or co-ed. Try and be a little more open minded, this sort of change only makes the hobby larger and I think it'll be around sooner than you think.
@@serifz8700 if you really jive with those factions like you said then you'd be playing them regardless. Literally no one is stopping you from just saying all these helmeted soldiers are galls in your custom army. But demanding the whole faction have a change to their whole identity just to fit you better is very telling. If you have to change the whole hobby in a way that ruins it for others then your not really a fan of the hobby but instead a fan of an idea of how it could suit you personally.
I think the Sisters of Battle being the Female Space Marine type army is the best reason and option for not having Female Marine, provided they create Sororitas offshoots that allow for more unique variations. So like Fenrisian Shieldmaidens who are Viking themed, or Nocturne Fireblades who are Dragonskin wearing warrior women, stuff like that. Make the Sisters of Battle more than just Warrior Nuns, let them have more unique themes and styles like the Space Marines do.
This is the way
Having much more unique Sisters options would be really cool and a great way to expand on more options. I feel like itd be really easy to do lore wise too, and maybe even make the SoB and SM group ups even more unique at times with those unique orders/offshoots.
but then they’d just be weaker space marines still
@@qwer9676 They already are weaker Space Marines. And Space Marines are just weaker Custodes.
the SoB are completely different from SM and are already unique amongst all factions in 40k
this argument is dumb cause it makes the SoB look like an afterthought to the fans and that the second a new thing comes in they will just drop them for being garbage when 99% of SoB players wouldnt stop just because new vagina appears
Preserving board game lore is basement behavior. Have fun and make angry augmented women.
The whole bloody point of Sisters Of Battle was to fill the demand for female space marines without screwing-up the lore. If current SOB's don't do it for you, there are proxy alternatives (with many different choices of bikini/habit combo). Sisters Of Battle are female space marines in all but name; they are what space marines would be like if they were created as females; weaker than their male counterparts, but with some unique attributes, and they get cool armor and big guns. What more do you want?
In real life, female soldiers are inferior and a liability on the front lines; they sometimes have legitimate and equal value to their male counterparts in supporting roles such as medical care or technical support, but when it comes to combat, you don't want women anywhere near a battlefield.
I'll accept women in 40K as PDF Planetary Defense Force troops on Planets where there is a severe manpower shortage and so they have to put ladies in uniforms, but they'd be the worst thing ever in the Imperial Guard or the Space Marines. I do accept that female soldiers among the Eldar and the Tau might be a thing though, because they are aliens and they might be built differently from humans.
they are used in every major army on Earth and have seen the worst combat imaginable in WW2 bro
this whole "durr they bad soldiers" thing comes from a Marine study that pitted combat vets against recruits and claimed it proved women are ineffective
this study was countered btw with studies done in Britain, France and Sweden showing that they are just as capable
that last ranting paragraph just shows you dont know anything about 40k or the characters btw
@@aprogressivegamer7005 Women have been used in combat of course, such as when the Nazis invaded Russia, but they are an option of last-resort.
Women are weak and puny compared to men, and wholly unsuited to warfare. There is never a situation in which you would send women onto the front lines when you could send men.
Female marines are very strong compared to average men, but they are a joke compared to real marines, and can only - at least in the case of the US marine corp - only ever qualify because they are allowed HUGE handicaps. If men were allowed to do the female course (which I suppose is inevitable now) they'd ALL pass.
I should mention I've got no objection to gay soldiers in 40K though; gay soldiers are definitely a real thing, and there is historical precedent for even having a whole army of gay soldiers.
@@herculeholmes504 they were serving long before the german invasion and long after
most major nations use them in their armies even Ukraine has a ton of female soldiers and they are doing fairly well (id love to see you go there and fight since you believe you are better then they are btw)
every major war in human history has seen women fight in some capacity and since WW1 we have seen entire units of women fighting (again the russians used them during BOTH world wars and they proved fairly reliable)
dont remember saying anything about gay people so no idea why you are dragging them into this
GENE SEED MFER do you understand the lore behind that sh*t?
I thought you were doing female space marines?...
Very manly looking women but hey painting is on point.
tbf if there was FSM they would basically go through a hyper mega version of the process female to male trans people go through and end up as basically men
As a chaos marine player im using sisters of battle as the slaanesh female units to me the sisters work well but if people didn't know unlike space marines 100% men sisters of battle does have male units its like they just can't let it be full female tbh I like the way it is already but if you want female marines more power to you dont let anyone stop you. Like if you want something to help you enjoy your army do it.
I am working on lizard marines as part of my chaos marines under khorne and I wanna do some slaanesh marines with tentacles maybe some more female units or parts maybe even female eldar units we shall see :)
Anyway enjoy the game you want it doesn't have to be canon if your having fun still
Tbh I just like the brotherhood vibe. Its as much as a boys only club more a preference of style.
Weird. I feel "brotherhood" with women as well as men... same vibes.
What "vibes" are you talking about?
@@rakelodakel I like the separation between marines/monks and siters/nuns. It makes more sense. SM are basically knight orders and those were fully male. We don't need women injected in every organization of the imperium.
@@Mr.Chombits a couple chapters/legions are "basically knight orders". And a couple might have the "munk" theme. Space Wolves are fantasy Vikings in space, Salamanders are hardly "knightly" and neither are Raven Guard, White Scars, thousand Sons or Carcharodons, just to grab the first few random examples I can think of. It's hardly an overarching theme, its an exception if anything. And besides, I don't see an issue with having women be part of the knightly, monk thing either. Works fine in every other setting I've seen with knight tropes.
Sisters of battle are not Space Marines or equivalent in any way. Their theme is 'Nuns'. Them being women plays a huge role in their entire theme and background, to the point where it approaches being redutive. If there was a Space Marine chapter who's identity relied heavily on gender, I could see the same thing working for them equally well.
But there isn't.
There's a literal handful of off-hand mentions that "by the way, only dudes...", contained within single paragraphs that constitute this "theme" of Astartes being male only. If you "like" that theme as a literary tool, you should be upset that it has literally NEVER been explored in like 40 years of lore and 400+ novels.
Women injected? Why is it "injection"? How come 'male-only' is the default position?
GW's decision to eject women is, if anything the needless act.
Pointless.
@@rakelodakel Astartes being male has been baked into their aesthetic for most of modern 40k. This isn't difficult to comprehend lol. You can't remove that aspect without taking away a massive chunk of their identity as a fraternal warrior cult. They're called battle-brothers for a reason. Not every faction has to be inclusive.
@leo9180 can't say I've red a single story where their gender plays a major or even half-meaningful role either in their story or in their themes. And I've red a lot.
I could see your point if they were actually explored as a symbol of toxic masculinity and the cult of manhood. But they're not. The traits they have are genderless warrior traits, and their fraternity lacks any sexist connotations, commentary or symbolism. The male-only lore is simply there, and is never really explored. They just simply happen to be dudes for no value whatsoever to the story. The siblinghood theme they have would in no way be harmed by the inclusion of women. I have the kind of "brotherhood" displayed between Astartes with many women in my life just like I do with men.
It's very weird to have such restrictive lore in the narrative when it has never been used, for 40 years. Yet it has die-hard defenders, none of whom seem able to explain what it is they like so much about it the male-only part. Seems like exclusion for the sake of exclusion to me.
I hate inclusiveness and forced representation, but I love rule of cool.
And you need anyone who can fight in your front line, also technically Samus Aran could have been the "first female space marine" and she is so cool so, why not?