I know you guys are clueless about wow but while this is an exploit, it should be the kind of bug that should be hotfixed on the spot but not ban the guy. Banning him would be ridiculous.
Literally pro raiding is theroy crafting and playing in a way that exploits every advantage possible. People saying this guy should lose his job over this are toxic AF
If something can be exploited, it will be exploited. People cheat in single player games with no one to impress so you should never be surprised by this.
people forget that people actually the tiktok infinite money glitch which was covered by Asmon a while back. Buddies if people gonna do an exploit in real life were shit is at stake... do you really think they'd care for a game?
@@ic3t3ap3ach Whole game is a wild statement, raiding is like 1/3 of the game at most. That's if you don't consider delves and PVP. Raiding/M+/Core Progression(story leveling world etc), only 1 of those is "tuned for esports".
Most ironic part of all this drama was Max going out of his way after they pointed out the renown exploiting to say Liquid would never cheat or allow cheating, yet here we are with him still on roster. At the end of the day, it's all about the $$$ from viewership, subs, and sponsors and if there is no risk to that, they really don't care. They will certainly clutch their pearls when someone else does it though.
Max’s argument for not exploiting is that historically they have been punished more than other other guilds for stuff those other guilds get away with. If Imfiredup gets punished for this after what echo is done, just proves him right
a 4% increase in dps isnt massive??? there is talent tree choices that give you 2.5% increase on ONE ABILITY. 4% increase in dps is absolutely huge that probably more damage than having bloodlust the entire time
The ability was functioning exactly how it reads on the talent tree, 'if you have more then 8 splinters - fire a splinterstorm at your target." If you dont have a target they arent going to fire, how is this a problem?
10:00 this argument is like saying submitting a tool assisted speedrun as a normal run isn't cheating because "its not changing the games code and everything the tas does is technically possible in the game"
It makes me laugh that people who play WoW like this are often the ones who go like 'Ha Eve players playing spreadsheet simulator' which like is true sure, but have some selfawareness when you're just staring at a spaghetti nightmare of UI too. The gameplay in the background might as well be incidental background noise.
I'm the type of player that goes "hey, this ability is cool, wonder if people are talking about it" in not just WoW, but any game. It's visual aesthetics, not different from size sliders, you know _which ones_ I'm talking about. When I go to youtube to view them? I get slapped by a content creator bragging about numbers and this giant mess of god knows what's going on in the screen. 10 whole minutes about how their thousands or millions of stats and bragging about their DPS. You can't show this to new players to bring in new players. This only excites elitists who are getting older and older.
These guys are going for world first so I don't think it's surprising that they have an excel spreadsheet projected on their screen when most of the game is basically a spreadsheet simulator if you want to beat Mythic raid bosses with gear deficit. For 99% of players this is irrelevant and you can have a clean UI without much clutter and do just fine even if you go as far as to do casual Mythic raiding eventually, you might need a bit more stuff but not nearly as much as this.
Apart from the visual noise of spells hitting the boss the rest of the mechanics in the video look pretty simple: stay our of black zones and dodge black lines.
@@bashvash I mean without explaining the strategy behind what the players are doing, it's not oversimplified at all. That is exactly what the mechanics require from what you can see in the video.
I've said it before, ill say it again. WoWs base ui has been laughably bad since vanilla launch. Every improvement blizzard has made to it over the years has been an inferior copy of popular addons.
It says in TOS that you are not allowed to exploit bugs in the game and he's playing the game so he accepted the TOS. Blizzard have every right to ban him
They used the bug on two pulls, neither of which even got the boss below 30%. It was hotfixed 30 hours before they killed the boss. The talent was literally doing exactly what it said, it was perhaps unintended, but if reading the tooltip tells you the bug, then it's not a bug, it is working as written. Meanwhile Echo are using a bug where the tooltip reads "Shadow Dance lasts 2 extra seconds" which increases your auto attack damage significantly, and stacking 4 rogues in their comp for this boss.
This isn't even remotely true and you only get this take when you ignore the entire tooltip, but its a common retort from people defending cheating because someone else cheated before they cheated.
@@raphg6319 Hyper unga take. If you ban the top 3 guilds you just ban all interesting RtWF. Big fucking pass. This is just a lazy L take and you damn well know it is.
Nah, it’s falling apart because of people like you who take things “too far” and try to make everything political, pointing out topics that has a different agenda rather than keeping gaming about “games.” Believe it or not, some people play games to have fun and get away from real life stuff for a bit, then theirs people like YOU who come in and makes everything so dramatic. Not everyone in the world is a softy, so relax and enjoy the ride. 😂🤡
@@Hethalean Sure but isn’t this about someone in WoW (game) cheating, online? I didn’t know this was under American Politics. I might have stumbled on the wrong video. 😅
Ye, why does blizzard even let it stack to 250 if it’s supposed to proc at over 8 to begin with? Easily coulda set the cap to a way more realistic number and it wouldn’t matter
This is why they have different categories for speed running games like Zelda. No glitch runs, Glitch runs, all that. Sometimes they only allow minor glitches, sometimes they allow major glitches that can beat you the game in a few minutes. There is a separate record or "Race" if you will for each of these. Makes it fair.
What is Asmon's take? At first he said "I think its totally fine they are cheating, who cares?". Then 1 min later he said "they should be suspended". Then 3 mins later he said "obviously they should he banned for cheating, I just dont really care because Blizzard puts too much focus on the race". Which one is the take?
He's saying it's not a big deal to cheat in a game, but if they have it against the rules then dish out punishments for it. WoW isn't a competitive game, yet everyone treats it like one. If someone wanted to cheat to beat a boss, does it really impact anyone? No.
What is Asmon's take? At first he said "I think its totally fine they are cheating, who cares?". Then 1 min later he said "they should be suspended". Then 3 mins later he said "obviously they should he banned for cheating, I just dont really care because Blizzard puts too much focus on the race". Which one is the take?
Whichever one that his editors clip and gets the most views as a short. Haven't you noticed Asmon always plays both sides on almost every issue he talks about?
@@GrassSaint33That's understandable. But the tweet he was responding to wasn't outrage. They just described what was happening and said there was criticism.
He's saying that he personally doesn't care whether they cheat or not, and thinks people over value the race to begin with. He ALSO feels regardless of his personal interest in the topic it makes sense that people are calling attention to it and wanting punishment. It's possible to not be personally invested about the topic but also empathize with a side simultaneously.
@@Celari they got a few day ban for straight up doing shit on stream and making it known to others--with that said it was pre release of the race and affected them in no way except a little sleep. dratnos in his RWF recap said tehy should do a few HOUR ban mid liquid day to send a message and since its only a few hours MID race it wont actually make much affect... -- luckily atleast it was fixed before they ever got a kill anyways
How is this big news? Am I missing something here? He went up a few % on the meter. In past expansions fire mages could go from being bottom of the meter to doing like 70% of the overall damage just by pressing combustion. Is it being an exploit even relevant when it's so insignificant? Nobody was banned for skipping phase 1 on Atramedes in cata and I'd say that's a way more advantagous exploit which was also extremely wide spread.
in legion shadow priests could do triple the dmg of the second guy lol,it wasnt a bug,it was just how it worked,ofc they nerfed it next tier,but for a time it was magic,this is a joke by comparison
Fun fact, the tooltip STATES it goes to your target. So if you never have a target, you just have a focus target. Well then, isn't that by design? :) He wasn't hiding it from Blizzard, he was hiding it from the competition.
@@Shuubox Nah it makes perfect sense, if the devs put something in the game it's hardly anyone elses fault for using it, plus they knew it was there since beta, at this point its practically a class feature
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these Rick and Morty fans with 65 IQ trying to make "2Deep4you" posts are hilarious
The tooltip also states it occurs at 8+ stacks, so lets ignore the half of the tooltip that contradicts reality and doesn't fit a silly narrative that 250 stacks is "working as written".
Also, this shit matters to so little people. idk why so many people are complaining about it. Don't worry, lil buddy , you still aren't good at the game.
True. What bothers me is it feels like there's more discussion on this than there was when early access was announced. People need to get their priorities straight. If you're going to complain at least focus on something which is obviously bad for the playerbase at large and not something insignificant that was immediately patched.
its not cheating,its an unintended interaction that gave em a tiny % dps lol,ret palas in cata could solo bosses in dragon soul,no1 got banned because it was blizzards fault not players just playing
here i will fix this for you maybe it makes sense for you: I love how Asmon acts like people that STILL play wow and take the game WAY too serious are losers. Does he not remember the last 15 years of his life
The reality is, the Devs fucked up, the exploit is in THEIR GAME. Destiny 2 had this problem a couple times and they were always very direct in saying that NO ONE would ever get banned for abusing an exploit because it was their fault they put it in the game not the players fault for finding it. Edit: in reference to worlds first, their run beyond that point should 100% not be counted and probably should just be full on suspend from the race, I'm sure the world's first race rules include something like "must not use exploits to complete it" Destiny 2 was this same way, no one ever got banned though unless they actually cheated.
TBH I don't see anything wrong with abusing mechanics, whether they're intended or not. The race is about getting there first, unless you're breaking TOS by doing something, at least as far as I'm concerned, everything goes.
Honestly agree. If this was about “fairness” and “blizzard’s intended way of playing” blizzard never intends for splits to be viable yet this is literally 90% of gear farming for RWF and very high end HoF guild’s for heroic week. Should we ban every guild that does splits because blizzard intended us not to do splits?
“Who cares, it’s a game” The fuck is this cope outta Asmon, exploits undermine the mechanics and reward structure of a game, and UNDERMINE THE GAME ITSELF.
I remember why I quit that game. Raids were so boring. Your reward afterwards ? You get to do it over 1000 more times and hopefully getting some random Drop.
As someone who's meme'd on Blizzard esports for awhile, it's hilarious seeing everyone react to the rampant amount of cheating present in RWF. Every top DPS is using third party software to perfectly execute every "proc" btw. You can just look at the logs and see when someone is cheating when they react to procs flawlessly over 5 minutes even when it's milliseconds from their spec ability. Now wait until you hear about the "spectator glitch" (as the casters are instructed to call it) in overwatch...
2:49 old final fantasy bosses that cast reflect on themselves can still be hit if you cast reflect on yourself and bounce your own spells off your party.
This exploit was fairly similar to pictomancer in ff14. When it launched you could turn your buff on and off which would stack and increase dps output. so much so that they created more aggro on pulls than tanks. They fixed it really quick tho.
Problem with removing addons is, the game has so many buffs and abilties that it's impossible to keep track of everything if you want to efficently perform rotations for a lot of classes, this argument is valid for classic era and a little bit beyond, but in retail? nahhhh.
The current game design would obviously be unplayable without addons, but if they remove the addons, they could just design a game that humans can play. Rather than designing the game around trying to challenge the addons that people are forced to use.
Even vanilla was awful to play without mods because of how laughably bad the base ui was. At launch you literally had 1 action bar, with pages. Dont even get me started on debuff tracking.......
spot on comment, most of the people complaining here are classic players that are too bad to even step foot into any modern raid. All they do is cope that addons play the game for you as if they could ever kill any hard boss with any addons......
"How is that cheating when the game allows it" The physical laws of the universe dont prevent you from bringing a gun to a chess tournament and shooting every opponent the moment they go for the handshake, that does not mean it is allowed.
I don't like people getting banned for using mechanics that the devs oversaw the moment a bug Is out that's the devs problem to fix and it's not like the mage was oneshotting the boss
@@techLiteracy_ most macros arent used for the purpose of breaking game mechanics, but if you're going to be lissencephalic about it then ban all the macros.
*If this was a Good and Fair MMORPG like Final Fantasy 14.* *The Player would get Banned for intentionally Exploiting.* *All members knowingly participating despite the fact would have their Rewards and Kill removed.* 😎
For the record, the "Massive dps increase" is literally a 4% dps increase from the other hero talentry. Not to mention the ability itself says in the tooltip that it will only explode on "your target" meaning if you take the tooltip literally then technically this could be described as intended.
Other raiders got a 4 day ban for an exploit that was less impactful and less convoluted to pull off. He shouldn’t be banned for a long time, but there’s no way it’s fair to ban for the rep thing and not for this.
Bro if you want to hold them accountable based on past actions how about skipping Atramedes phase 1 in cata? Thats a big exploit and just about everyone did it. Blizz did nothing. Nobody was banned and it took them a month to even patch it. Does this being world first race make it different? No. It's not an official event. Not to mention this bug was reported in beta. If it was still in by mythic opening you might as well consider it a class feature. And besides if he wanted 4% more dps he could've just played sunfury. It's incredibly depressing that there's more discussion over this "advantage" than there was when paid early access was announced.
@@EmpyreanDreamer I’m not holding them accountable based on past actions, I’m basing it on action during THIS RWF, people got banned already during this race so I’m basing it on that for consistency. Why would you want inconsistent banning within the same race? And it isn’t a 4% increase, that’s a lobotomised way for doing math. If person A can lift 100lbs and person B can lift 200lbs, if person A takes a pill to increase their lift and then lifts 202lbs, that isn’t a 1% increase, it’s a 102% increase. Why are you comparing a class with an exploit to different class instead of the class with the exploit to the same class without it? Rhetorical question, it’s to downplay the cheating by obfuscating just how impactful the exploit is.
A small damage increase from using a talent that functions as worded is not a bannable offense. Cheating on and end boss by having a software circumvent an entire mechanic that resulted in a team winning the RWF despite being way behind and playing worse to the point they couldnt even kill it on reclear the week after without the software, that should have been grounds for SERIOUS punishment. But those same people are now whining and begging blizz to ban firedup despite the fact that Liquid reported it and it was then fixed. Echo fans belong in mental asylums.
It's not a mechanic, it's just an effect coded in a wrong way. If it was a mechanic, it wouldn't have gotten removed. Where's the fun part in such a mechanic? It's not very clever for game designers to make game mechanics like this.
to be fair no1 in internal testing could find such an obscure interaction lol,these things only show up when milions of players try things,and only the best of the best find them,also the ''exploit'' is a joke,we had way way worse ones
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i love how exploiters snitch on themselves with comments like this, same stupidity as that Chase Bank "money glitch hack"
Whenever a function in a game is used in a way that people consider a "cheat," it means the developer didn’t properly account for it. Ultimately, the "cheat" is limited by the game’s own mechanics and possibilities-it’s not an external addition. Therefore, it’s not truly a cheat since it exists within the game's design. The developer should thank players for pointing out the issue and simply fix it.
if blizzard makes this possible, it is not cheating. in effect, every addon is a cheat and if they provide this api, banning people is diddiculous. and yes, the game sucks because they provide support for addons. addons it also what ruins classic/sod and the developers even build around addons, so not using all niches would be just stupid. those guys should be rewarded. and clearly a downvote for your strange opinion. i feel like a cheater every time a horn sounds that tells me to move.
Well a team could also hack their opponents accounts during races and delete their gear. That would just be clever use of blizzard security mechanics as well.
@@Mas-ij3ti Tbh that is probably the dumbest comparison I've seen. Hacking into someone elses account for even the slightest edge in a competition should have you banned permanently. As for what they did where they "Exploited" the fight this shouldnt be a ban. Honestly if you want a fair kill just have blizz fix the fight and take away there kill and have them redo the fight with the "Exploit" removed. This is 100% on blizzards end rather or not it was intended to be part of the fight that is not the teams fault for using it at all.
I think the problem generally is that blizzard doesn't make a clear stance, or line, on what is cheating or not. They also all have contact with GMs, and I am willing to bet that they specifically asked a GM about this bug before using it. Which is why you don't see him already banned. The reason for hiding the bug is to make it harder for the other race to world first guilds to figure out how to also do this bug. You can argue this is unethical, or cheating, but this is literally just how it's always been. They used to literally not stream anything because they didn't want to give any advantage to competitors. Even now they mute coms often, turn off streams and pull bosses a handful of times. The RWF has never really been a fair competition, they have always cheated, exploited, and rode the line of ethical. Solely because blizzard isn't harsher on them. They need a clear line of what's wrong, and right, and enforcement of that line if they want to ensure fairness. But I don't really think blizz cares about that.
@@Akynam First describe why you need any add on. If any of the reasons give you any advantage, it's a cheat. It's an outside program used to make the game easier. How is an add on NOT a cheat?
@@crewellye5428 Ok so is raid leader on discord that's not even in the raid calling stuff for everyone cheating ? Is looking up guides before a boss cheating because it makes the game easier for you ???? Since when advantage = cheat
@@crewellye5428not to mention this isn’t just an addon, mythic rosters pay people to make weak auras so not only is this an outside the game program it’s an outside game program which you pay for.
And who says you need them ? Or why are they so horrible ? Would love to hear any explanation from you. I don't believe you need them and i also don't think they are bad for the game.
@@Akynam you need them in order to be on a level playing field. It's also hugely inconvenient if you don't have those add-ons. Without them, you need to put in double the effort for half of the benefit.
@@Akynam So you're telling me you would rather walk into a mythic raid, M 15+ or higher, and or play at a 2100+ pvp rating without addons not knowing when a spell is off cooldown or when the next mechanic is gunna slap you in the face and fry you into oblivion. when you could turn around, download a couple addons that literally tell you and play the game for you, all so you can make it easier on you and your party? I have zero belief you even touch the endgame of any part of wow if you are playing with zero addons because you are at such a disadvantage its actually not even funny. Now i will admit i hate addons i think they should go but i still have them because without them doing anything endgame is basically 200x harder and im not really one to enjoy putting in triple the effort just so i dont have to use addons.
@@deenman23 Most of the time blizzard build mechanics around addons cause they know a majority of players use them... if anything players arent bad its just blizzard having bad game design. Which like i said im not a fan of addons but im def not gunna play retail wow without a few to make some of the content actually enjoyable even it its only a small amount more enjoyable.
This type of exploit shouldn't result in a ban at all wtf are people smoking? Fix the game maybe. What will be next? Hunters macroing all pet abilities in their own abilities to make them use them more frequently will be considered an exploit too?
To loosely remember what Karl Jobst says: Players who are good at a game can still cheat because they've earned a legitimate reputation where others may not question or even realize when they're cheating. Then you have this guy here who basically leaves a breadcrumb trail right back to him.
Whether an exploit should be allowed depends on how healthy it is for the games playability. We can use Smash Bro's Melee as an example: Wobbling: A certain character grabs you once and you die from minimal effort or thought. This is an unintentional mechanic and is banned in competition. Wavedashing: A universal movement option that opens up the creativety of every character. This is an unintentional mechanic and is NOT banned in competition.
This video is 5hrs old and this happened yesterday. It was hotfixed within a few hours. In addition Liquid notified Blizzard of this bug 3 days before this and Blizz did nothing with their report. If your going to report on drama at least get the details correct and current. Not 24hrs behind.
@@AndrewSmith-sl5zj ''tells you everything'' the terrible game design doesn't, by that logic having a raid leader call out stuff should be considered just as bad for the game ? Weak auras do not play the game for you, none of the addons do, you are controlling the character and you have to outplay the mechanics. Classic bozos acting like they could get cutting edge on retail just thanks to addons pretending like it's easy mode while they probably never tried any modern mythic bosses, all they know are their target dummy trashcan classic raids.
Did I miss something? TWW has been well recieved, the warcraft logs creator thinks based on his data the game may have broken its peak player count, they already announced the next patch, im sure something is going on with SoD and classic HC is about to have a big comeback. Oh but this mage did 4% more damage and it was immediately patched... Yikes how embarrassing what a massive L for blizz.
@@EmpyreanDreamer "the warcraft logs creator thinks based on his data the game may have broken its peak player count" Until they return official, verified numbers I'm going with under a million subscriptions and some other million bots. Not making public player number means they hardly have anything and the only way to convince many people otherwise is to make them public again.
“Weak auras just play the game for you” instantly outing yourself as an lfr only raider. No they don’t, they become a crutch for terrible players and inflates them, but players that rely on wa’s never make it far into mythic raiding. It’s an addition to supplement good awareness and understanding.
Imfiredup did nothing wrong. He used mechanics within the game. Blizzard should have thought of this during testing. Just because the players found a way to boost their dps it's not their fault. People have done things like this since the beginning and were never banned or suspended for it.
Exactly, everything he did was doable with in game functions. He didn't need an addon to pull it off. To me the "deception" he used was more likely to hide it from other players duplicating it.
Ir's not cheating if it's the devs' fault. Devs made the game the way it is, devs don't ban macros, devs don't ban add-ons, devs don't ban bots. It's not Bobby or Activision CEOs who make the technical decisions which results in bad game mechanics.
I'd say World of Warcraft would not have fallen off so hard if they went with emerging gameplay instead of punishing players. I mean in Warframe the huge amount of mobility was not intended at first, people were abusing stuff and they were like "ok, this feels cool, let's add it as a feature" and guess what, the game became better. Emerging gameplay in WoW? Nearly all modern bosses are too hard for the average player and make people, even professional players use addons and exploits. Add addon features into the game. Fix bugs that allow exploits or if they are fun, then ADD them as a feature. There are too many players playing illegally on pirated private servers? Make the game free-to-play with a cash shop. To be fair WoW tries to add addon features into the game but they should have went balls-deep with it and disallow addons. Cheaters should not be punished but interviewed, cooperated with and rewarded for their cooperation. Use them as testers! That's it. Only those should be banned who are doing malicious hacking and other actions that ruin the experience of other players. Haven't played WoW for ages and as long as Blizzard is more worried about stock prices instead of making something out of WoW, I will stay away. I mean most of the mechanical development is AGAINST players "not playing right" and not about how players want to play. Also these borrowed power craps, transitional stuff that become obsolete every patch, all that is wasted development time that would be better used on the rest of the game, like updating old stuff, making old dungeons, raids and areas relevant and so on and so forth.
Firing/kicking Firedup would be so dumb. Tom Brady was suspended in the NFL for four games because of his involvement in Deflategate, and the Patriots didn't get rid of him. Firedup has been one of the most consistently good players for Liquid for years, it'd be a stupid mistake, and a shame, to let him go because of this.
From what I've seen of Liquid he seemed like a top player. But he was deliberately altering his UI to not show the exploit he was using, co-opting Max to not show his screen. Seemed like a bad move, Max bears some of the blame on this too, he should have called out this as bs, he will not walk away squeaky clean
Yeah calm down bro they're small indie developers they're going to need at least two or three months to make such a monumental change to their game I can't believe you modern gamers are so entitled sheesh.
I have a feeling that if a woman was caught cheating they would say how she's smart for taking advantage of game mechanics but since we're in this butterfly effect he's a cheater.
I mean... Exploits should be used if they're in the game. It's free game until it's patched. I agree with Zack, let them cheat. Also, addons are a stupid concept as well.
"Exploits should be used if they're in the game" - bruh, what? Exploits are called exploits because they weren't intended as a mechanic, so it's obviously cheating. If you exploit by a mistake/unknowingly then you shouldn't get banned in any game, but using macros to SPECIFICALLY exploit - that's cheating.
I agree that exploits generally shouldn’t be bannable but the situation is different when there’s a competition that explicitly states not to use exploits.
Imagine owning a gun in the UK when it’s illegal and going “but I didn’t shoot anyone” when caught. That’s the same logic as “but he didn’t get a kill with it!!!”
what people are failing to realize is that Liquid gained zero measurable benefit/reward for performing this exploit, unlike Method and Echo who gained a significant reputation that translates into player power. This was probably a case where Liquid discovered the bug, tested to see if it could be reproduced consistently then asked Blizzard privately if it was intended or not. Blizzard probably told them no its not intended stop doing it and so Liquid stopped abusing the bug, end of story. There is a significant difference between what Method and Echo did vs what Liquid did and that is why Liquid will not receive any punishment.
Exploits should not be bannable, period. How is it your fault the game has bugs. Intentionally hacking the game and cheating to accomplish something otherwise unobtainable should be 100 percent banned
So the best players, with the best coaches, with ample free time and custom weakauras cannot clear the raid EVEN WHILE CHEATING ??? Who gives a shit about exploits, why the fuck is the raid so hard ? What about 99.9999% of the palyerbase ? Do we just get cucked, forced to watch until the RWF is over and the raid gets nerfed ? You know what, fuck this, I'm out.
I had an argument with a friend once because he said the rtwf was good for the game when the fact that it exists just causes the game the game to be worse for everyone else
Funny part about this is that there's only one player doing it that way if one gets caught they have plausible deniability instead of having the whole team banned.
"This makes Blizzard look stupid"
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
lmao
wow is cooked
XD
right these titles are dumb lol
Surprised people still play world of *GRIND-* craft.
A bug that benefits the players? They’ll fix it tonight
The Lich King can STILL bug out and simply not die to this DAY, by the way
Same for Kael'thas. which was only released in 2007.
@@Skrooby13 thats not a bug its a feature lol sometimes thr Lich King just wins
The bug was fixed yesterday already.
Idk wtf I'm even looking at. Omg. This HUD Is terrible. I have never played this game before.
The way it should be. I'll never forgive blizzard for what they did to my boy
Exploit early, exploit often. That is how you play Blizzard games.
That’s how you play all games
i thought the best way to play blizzard games these days is to not play them?
They also exploit their playerbase so its all cool
I know you guys are clueless about wow but while this is an exploit, it should be the kind of bug that should be hotfixed on the spot but not ban the guy. Banning him would be ridiculous.
Literally pro raiding is theroy crafting and playing in a way that exploits every advantage possible. People saying this guy should lose his job over this are toxic AF
If something can be exploited, it will be exploited. People cheat in single player games with no one to impress so you should never be surprised by this.
True! People were using game genie to beat games in the 80s and 90s to send in a screenshots to Nintendo power lol
People whine on the internet on how others play single player games even (especially) if it doesn't affect them at all.
people forget that people actually the tiktok infinite money glitch which was covered by Asmon a while back. Buddies if people gonna do an exploit in real life were shit is at stake... do you really think they'd care for a game?
I'm not surprised. I just expect them to get punished. Certainly lost a viewer.
No one to impress? Who cares what people do in their solo games? You can cheat if you don't want to grind for instance
I, for one, am shocked that anything in World of Warcraft is broken.
Reminder, The RWF is just a community event.
Except it's tuned for silly esports. Love the new model of nerfs every week for 15 weeks.
the whole game is tuned for community events aka esport.
Rwf is the event that killed the game for everyone
@@ic3t3ap3ach What? The raids are tuned to impossible. They're dripping nerfs into fights they can't beat...the rest of the game is irrelevant.
@@ic3t3ap3ach Whole game is a wild statement, raiding is like 1/3 of the game at most. That's if you don't consider delves and PVP. Raiding/M+/Core Progression(story leveling world etc), only 1 of those is "tuned for esports".
Most ironic part of all this drama was Max going out of his way after they pointed out the renown exploiting to say Liquid would never cheat or allow cheating, yet here we are with him still on roster. At the end of the day, it's all about the $$$ from viewership, subs, and sponsors and if there is no risk to that, they really don't care. They will certainly clutch their pearls when someone else does it though.
EU in shambles
Max’s argument for not exploiting is that historically they have been punished more than other other guilds for stuff those other guilds get away with. If Imfiredup gets punished for this after what echo is done, just proves him right
@@Mo_Egan are you okay
I look at all that screen clutter and just think, wow, that looks unfun.
well, it's fun.
the new raid is actually fun tho, you are looking at a professional min maxers screen
Your not gonna be doing it on mythic so your fine
Why is there game in my UI simulator?!
Bro, all the defenders in the comments. "Don't insult my trash! Its mine!"
😂
Top ranked guilds have been actively trying to be the first to find and exploit bugs since Wow was first released.
FYI the bug was fixed yesterday. No one cares anymore.
FYI wow is trash so no one cares
@@anap1680 What are you doing here then?
This is like having someone on the couch watching TV tell us gaming is a waste of time.
@@stormeeds8119 watching asmonggold not playing wow
@@anap1680 cry more
@@zuephillips3450 Watching a guy, talk about a game you don't care about..
Yeah i'm running to get fun advice from you.
4% increase in DPS isn't all that massive. Blizzard has known about this "bug" since beta
Yep. It was reported in beta, and multiple times after release.
If it's not fixed by now, it's a class feature
what you mean since the beta? were playing the beta now on live servers if youre honest.
a 4% increase in dps isnt massive??? there is talent tree choices that give you 2.5% increase on ONE ABILITY. 4% increase in dps is absolutely huge that probably more damage than having bloodlust the entire time
@bealmador my point is that 8 vs 250 stacks is only 4%.
4% of overall damage, or 4% from only the mage?
It's comforting to know that as much as the game supposedly changes over time, the same old crap is somehow news.
The ability was functioning exactly how it reads on the talent tree, 'if you have more then 8 splinters - fire a splinterstorm at your target."
If you dont have a target they arent going to fire, how is this a problem?
10:00 this argument is like saying submitting a tool assisted speedrun as a normal run isn't cheating because "its not changing the games code and everything the tas does is technically possible in the game"
You would be surprised how many people out there would defend that as well.
Not the same thing.
Submitting a TAS screws over other people. It's anti-competitive.
@@M1sterE321 TAS speedruns are their own category, no? how does that screw over other people?
@@NotAndorei It's fine if it is being submitted in a TAS category. Not if a TAS is being submitted in a different category deceptively.
@@M1sterE321 was there ever a case that a TAS speedrun was submitted outside of it's own category?
Bungie lets you exploit and never punishes you. It’s their fault for the bugs being there and they recognize that.
who? that company has been dead.
Actually its because they fired the guy that was doing the banning.
who is proud of this lol
As a non wow retail player, what the heck is even going on, so many stats
Well that's easy, basically you're seeing the raw data one would input into a graph to show the rapidly declining birth rate in Western nations.
It makes me laugh that people who play WoW like this are often the ones who go like 'Ha Eve players playing spreadsheet simulator' which like is true sure, but have some selfawareness when you're just staring at a spaghetti nightmare of UI too. The gameplay in the background might as well be incidental background noise.
I'm the type of player that goes "hey, this ability is cool, wonder if people are talking about it" in not just WoW, but any game. It's visual aesthetics, not different from size sliders, you know _which ones_ I'm talking about.
When I go to youtube to view them? I get slapped by a content creator bragging about numbers and this giant mess of god knows what's going on in the screen. 10 whole minutes about how their thousands or millions of stats and bragging about their DPS.
You can't show this to new players to bring in new players.
This only excites elitists who are getting older and older.
Tbf most MMOs UI in big raids are gonna look insane if you don't play that MMO.
These guys are going for world first so I don't think it's surprising that they have an excel spreadsheet projected on their screen when most of the game is basically a spreadsheet simulator if you want to beat Mythic raid bosses with gear deficit. For 99% of players this is irrelevant and you can have a clean UI without much clutter and do just fine even if you go as far as to do casual Mythic raiding eventually, you might need a bit more stuff but not nearly as much as this.
if they just focus casted the boss down, thats an oversight on blizzard with the mechanics, and clever use of game mechanics on the players.
could say the same for renown glitch for echo/method. It was just a "clever used of game mechanics"
Yeah idk how you can design that and not check what happens when they don't have a target, designers don't play their own game.
It's just a addon that cost $250 guys😂
I love how I can tell it's modern wow, because I can't understand a damn thing going on.
Apart from the visual noise of spells hitting the boss the rest of the mechanics in the video look pretty simple: stay our of black zones and dodge black lines.
@atraxian5881 accurate but also oversimplified
They have to adapt to all the addons and weak auras that people use and it makes a mess out of fights.
self-own
@@bashvash I mean without explaining the strategy behind what the players are doing, it's not oversimplified at all. That is exactly what the mechanics require from what you can see in the video.
Bold to assume Blizzard was smart to begin with
I've said it before, ill say it again.
WoWs base ui has been laughably bad since vanilla launch.
Every improvement blizzard has made to it over the years has been an inferior copy of popular addons.
If shits broken during a worlds first then thats on the devs imo
But how would the dev know.
@@sammyhorace7523 It was reported in beta...
@@cosminlesutan3574 oh
It says in TOS that you are not allowed to exploit bugs in the game and he's playing the game so he accepted the TOS. Blizzard have every right to ban him
THE ONLY REASON PPL ARE CALLING FOR A BAN IS SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE ESPORTS DRAMA TO TALK ABOUT.
I GUARANTEE YOU NO ONE REALLY GIVES A SHYT
WHY ARE YOU SCREAMIN? WHY ARE WE ANGRY?
BRO I THINK YOU LEFT YOUR CAPS LOCK ON
What when has blizzard ever looked stupid…
They used the bug on two pulls, neither of which even got the boss below 30%. It was hotfixed 30 hours before they killed the boss. The talent was literally doing exactly what it said, it was perhaps unintended, but if reading the tooltip tells you the bug, then it's not a bug, it is working as written. Meanwhile Echo are using a bug where the tooltip reads "Shadow Dance lasts 2 extra seconds" which increases your auto attack damage significantly, and stacking 4 rogues in their comp for this boss.
This isn't even remotely true and you only get this take when you ignore the entire tooltip, but its a common retort from people defending cheating because someone else cheated before they cheated.
@@inkedgeminiWhats the entire tooltip?
people get mad at players for using exploits instead of the devs for missing them and not fixing them
Get mad at devs for not punishing exploiters purely out of sadistic pleasure in seeing smart people suffer to stupidity.
Yeah, I've never understood this thinking. They literally programmed it.
They knew what they doing, they were cheating intentionally, they all deserve perma ban
@@raphg6319 Hyper unga take.
If you ban the top 3 guilds you just ban all interesting RtWF.
Big fucking pass. This is just a lazy L take and you damn well know it is.
@raphg6319 Blizzard put it in the game. Not the player. Therefore, your opinion is irrelevant.
This country will fall apart from younger generations caring more about somebody cheating in a video game over politicians and companies cheating IRL.
We can talk about both.
Nah, it’s falling apart because of people like you who take things “too far” and try to make everything political, pointing out topics that has a different agenda rather than keeping gaming about “games.”
Believe it or not, some people play games to have fun and get away from real life stuff for a bit, then theirs people like YOU who come in and makes everything so dramatic. Not everyone in the world is a softy, so relax and enjoy the ride. 😂🤡
@@NaatPlague or... the young generation only cares about online life. The least important life
@@Hethalean Sure but isn’t this about someone in WoW (game) cheating, online? I didn’t know this was under American Politics. I might have stumbled on the wrong video. 😅
Clever use of mechanics. Blizzards game, it’s happening in their game, players figured it out. Blizzards fault
Ye, why does blizzard even let it stack to 250 if it’s supposed to proc at over 8 to begin with? Easily coulda set the cap to a way more realistic number and it wouldn’t matter
@@sluggy567 Or just never check how a proc that needs a target functions if you dont have a target
This is why they have different categories for speed running games like Zelda. No glitch runs, Glitch runs, all that. Sometimes they only allow minor glitches, sometimes they allow major glitches that can beat you the game in a few minutes. There is a separate record or "Race" if you will for each of these. Makes it fair.
What is Asmon's take? At first he said "I think its totally fine they are cheating, who cares?". Then 1 min later he said "they should be suspended". Then 3 mins later he said "obviously they should he banned for cheating, I just dont really care because Blizzard puts too much focus on the race". Which one is the take?
right
classic asmon
Some of those were quotes he was reading, not his take
watch the video again
He's saying it's not a big deal to cheat in a game, but if they have it against the rules then dish out punishments for it.
WoW isn't a competitive game, yet everyone treats it like one. If someone wanted to cheat to beat a boss, does it really impact anyone? No.
The talent was working exactly as it was written. Hard to blame a player for noticing something so simple that the designer missed.
What is Asmon's take? At first he said "I think its totally fine they are cheating, who cares?". Then 1 min later he said "they should be suspended". Then 3 mins later he said "obviously they should he banned for cheating, I just dont really care because Blizzard puts too much focus on the race". Which one is the take?
Whichever one that his editors clip and gets the most views as a short. Haven't you noticed Asmon always plays both sides on almost every issue he talks about?
I think he's saying blizzard should punish them, but he doesnt think its something to get outraged about.
@@GrassSaint33That's understandable. But the tweet he was responding to wasn't outrage. They just described what was happening and said there was criticism.
He's saying that he personally doesn't care whether they cheat or not, and thinks people over value the race to begin with. He ALSO feels regardless of his personal interest in the topic it makes sense that people are calling attention to it and wanting punishment. It's possible to not be personally invested about the topic but also empathize with a side simultaneously.
If you take a step back and just enjoy the show, it answers this problem
Bit rich for Echo to call out things like this when they have a documented history of doing the same shit ....
No, what Echo did in Amirdrassil is way worse than this lol
Didn’t also some echo players get suspended for abusing the renown 2 weeks ago or something.
@Celari yes method and echo both got hit with bans
@@Celari they got a few day ban for straight up doing shit on stream and making it known to others--with that said it was pre release of the race and affected them in no way except a little sleep. dratnos in his RWF recap said tehy should do a few HOUR ban mid liquid day to send a message and since its only a few hours MID race it wont actually make much affect... -- luckily atleast it was fixed before they ever got a kill anyways
How is this big news? Am I missing something here? He went up a few % on the meter. In past expansions fire mages could go from being bottom of the meter to doing like 70% of the overall damage just by pressing combustion. Is it being an exploit even relevant when it's so insignificant? Nobody was banned for skipping phase 1 on Atramedes in cata and I'd say that's a way more advantagous exploit which was also extremely wide spread.
in legion shadow priests could do triple the dmg of the second guy lol,it wasnt a bug,it was just how it worked,ofc they nerfed it next tier,but for a time it was magic,this is a joke by comparison
Fun fact, the tooltip STATES it goes to your target.
So if you never have a target, you just have a focus target.
Well then, isn't that by design? :)
He wasn't hiding it from Blizzard, he was hiding it from the competition.
Bro...don't 😂
@@Shuubox Nah it makes perfect sense, if the devs put something in the game it's hardly anyone elses fault for using it, plus they knew it was there since beta, at this point its practically a class feature
these Rick and Morty fans with 65 IQ trying to make "2Deep4you" posts are hilarious
The tooltip also states it occurs at 8+ stacks, so lets ignore the half of the tooltip that contradicts reality and doesn't fit a silly narrative that 250 stacks is "working as written".
@@inkedgemini if 8+ stacks and target is hostile
ABC, Always Be Cheesin
They told Blizzard about it three days before it was "discovered" by Gingi who was just looking to rat out of spite since he got in trouble.
If you report it and still use it its your fault
@@Blackbirdone11 So if you tell a cop you did something and they say its not illegal, you should still go to jail? Just put the fries in the bag.
The way I look at these things is that it's the devs' fault and no one else's.
Also, this shit matters to so little people. idk why so many people are complaining about it. Don't worry, lil buddy , you still aren't good at the game.
@@chazjackson-ahealthfitness2611 Just online pugilists without hobbies or interests so they plague everyone elses lmao
True. What bothers me is it feels like there's more discussion on this than there was when early access was announced. People need to get their priorities straight. If you're going to complain at least focus on something which is obviously bad for the playerbase at large and not something insignificant that was immediately patched.
They ban randoms for farming frogs in mop remix but let cheating allowed in a race competition
its not cheating,its an unintended interaction that gave em a tiny % dps lol,ret palas in cata could solo bosses in dragon soul,no1 got banned because it was blizzards fault not players just playing
I love how Asmon acts like people that play wow are losers and take the game too seriously. Does he not remember the last 15 years of his life
always funny to see how butthurt some people get at every shit random streamer says lmao
If a recovered crack addict laughs at other crack addicts who do crack does it invalidate him somehow?
@@paintorian2064 no, it not only makes him a hypocrite
here i will fix this for you maybe it makes sense for you:
I love how Asmon acts like people that STILL play wow and take the game WAY too serious are losers. Does he not remember the last 15 years of his life
The reality is, the Devs fucked up, the exploit is in THEIR GAME. Destiny 2 had this problem a couple times and they were always very direct in saying that NO ONE would ever get banned for abusing an exploit because it was their fault they put it in the game not the players fault for finding it.
Edit: in reference to worlds first, their run beyond that point should 100% not be counted and probably should just be full on suspend from the race, I'm sure the world's first race rules include something like "must not use exploits to complete it" Destiny 2 was this same way, no one ever got banned though unless they actually cheated.
Lol they have had over 250 pulls on the 5th boss. This raid is insane on mythic.
i remember the sunwell priest mind-control one-shot of the final boss.
TBH I don't see anything wrong with abusing mechanics, whether they're intended or not. The race is about getting there first, unless you're breaking TOS by doing something, at least as far as I'm concerned, everything goes.
Honestly agree. If this was about “fairness” and “blizzard’s intended way of playing” blizzard never intends for splits to be viable yet this is literally 90% of gear farming for RWF and very high end HoF guild’s for heroic week. Should we ban every guild that does splits because blizzard intended us not to do splits?
“Who cares, it’s a game”
The fuck is this cope outta Asmon, exploits undermine the mechanics and reward structure of a game, and UNDERMINE THE GAME ITSELF.
IF B-Lizzard is not fair in its business, neither do players have to be.
Can't spell "Blizzard" without "LIAR"
Players should not be punished for using exploits in a game. The developer should just fix the exploit.
Asmon actually pulling the it's only a game card. Sad days
a bad game* it only a bad game…
Zach is in the driver’s seat now, Asmon only shows up when he needs to get real serious in-game
This bug was in since early beta, and reported MULTIPLES of times. This is on blizzard.
I remember why I quit that game. Raids were so boring. Your reward afterwards ? You get to do it over 1000 more times and hopefully getting some random Drop.
I mean literally every MMO ever right? Lmao
There used to be named chase items with cool transmogs, now every piece of loot feels like XYZ of the monkey be it green, blue or purple
As someone who's meme'd on Blizzard esports for awhile, it's hilarious seeing everyone react to the rampant amount of cheating present in RWF. Every top DPS is using third party software to perfectly execute every "proc" btw. You can just look at the logs and see when someone is cheating when they react to procs flawlessly over 5 minutes even when it's milliseconds from their spec ability.
Now wait until you hear about the "spectator glitch" (as the casters are instructed to call it) in overwatch...
>Massive DPS increase
>Barely went up in total dps
Right? It just barely made spellslinger 4% better than sunfury. If spellslinger wasn't SUPER dogshit in the first place no one would've even noticed 😂
@@Sargaxiist2022 4% is huge in mythic.
from 1.14 million dps to 1.36 thats a 20% increase, and it would have gone up even more if they didnt die from the enrage. Stop capping.
@Genjuro77 a 20% increase on a spec that's so doesn't you never see it right?
@@Genjuro77 you clearly have no fucking clue how that hero talentry works man
2:49 old final fantasy bosses that cast reflect on themselves can still be hit if you cast reflect on yourself and bounce your own spells off your party.
This exploit was fairly similar to pictomancer in ff14. When it launched you could turn your buff on and off which would stack and increase dps output. so much so that they created more aggro on pulls than tanks. They fixed it really quick tho.
@@edatihtiaz8018 I rem something similar in EQ2 before wow even came out we had an enchanter do something to the boss and they killed themselves.
Problem with removing addons is, the game has so many buffs and abilties that it's impossible to keep track of everything if you want to efficently perform rotations for a lot of classes, this argument is valid for classic era and a little bit beyond, but in retail? nahhhh.
The current game design would obviously be unplayable without addons, but if they remove the addons, they could just design a game that humans can play. Rather than designing the game around trying to challenge the addons that people are forced to use.
Even vanilla was awful to play without mods because of how laughably bad the base ui was.
At launch you literally had 1 action bar, with pages. Dont even get me started on debuff tracking.......
spot on comment, most of the people complaining here are classic players that are too bad to even step foot into any modern raid. All they do is cope that addons play the game for you as if they could ever kill any hard boss with any addons......
Okay but run the fuckin raid Asmon
"How is that cheating when the game allows it"
The physical laws of the universe dont prevent you from bringing a gun to a chess tournament and shooting every opponent the moment they go for the handshake, that does not mean it is allowed.
I don't like people getting banned for using mechanics that the devs oversaw the moment a bug Is out that's the devs problem to fix and it's not like the mage was oneshotting the boss
Using macros to break the mechanics*
Fixed it for you, you're welcome.
@@purplefreedom1631u either allow macro or just rule out all macro
@@techLiteracy_ most macros arent used for the purpose of breaking game mechanics, but if you're going to be lissencephalic about it then ban all the macros.
Asmon "let them cheat, its just a game"
Asmons obese community: "WHAT DID U SAY, THIS IS OUR LIFE"
*If this was a Good and Fair MMORPG like Final Fantasy 14.*
*The Player would get Banned for intentionally Exploiting.*
*All members knowingly participating despite the fact would have their Rewards and Kill removed.* 😎
For the record, the "Massive dps increase" is literally a 4% dps increase from the other hero talentry. Not to mention the ability itself says in the tooltip that it will only explode on "your target" meaning if you take the tooltip literally then technically this could be described as intended.
Other raiders got a 4 day ban for an exploit that was less impactful and less convoluted to pull off. He shouldn’t be banned for a long time, but there’s no way it’s fair to ban for the rep thing and not for this.
Bro if you want to hold them accountable based on past actions how about skipping Atramedes phase 1 in cata? Thats a big exploit and just about everyone did it. Blizz did nothing. Nobody was banned and it took them a month to even patch it. Does this being world first race make it different? No. It's not an official event. Not to mention this bug was reported in beta. If it was still in by mythic opening you might as well consider it a class feature. And besides if he wanted 4% more dps he could've just played sunfury.
It's incredibly depressing that there's more discussion over this "advantage" than there was when paid early access was announced.
@@EmpyreanDreamer I’m not holding them accountable based on past actions, I’m basing it on action during THIS RWF, people got banned already during this race so I’m basing it on that for consistency. Why would you want inconsistent banning within the same race?
And it isn’t a 4% increase, that’s a lobotomised way for doing math. If person A can lift 100lbs and person B can lift 200lbs, if person A takes a pill to increase their lift and then lifts 202lbs, that isn’t a 1% increase, it’s a 102% increase. Why are you comparing a class with an exploit to different class instead of the class with the exploit to the same class without it? Rhetorical question, it’s to downplay the cheating by obfuscating just how impactful the exploit is.
A small damage increase from using a talent that functions as worded is not a bannable offense.
Cheating on and end boss by having a software circumvent an entire mechanic that resulted in a team winning the RWF despite being way behind and playing worse to the point they couldnt even kill it on reclear the week after without the software, that should have been grounds for SERIOUS punishment. But those same people are now whining and begging blizz to ban firedup despite the fact that Liquid reported it and it was then fixed. Echo fans belong in mental asylums.
A rule against exploiting is tacit admission that you can’t run a live service. If you could, you would patch the exploit “live”.
It's not an exploit, the spell mentions current target in tooltip, it's a clever use of gameplay mechanic to create a focus macros to avoid targeting
It's not a mechanic, it's just an effect coded in a wrong way. If it was a mechanic, it wouldn't have gotten removed. Where's the fun part in such a mechanic? It's not very clever for game designers to make game mechanics like this.
Imagine banning someone cause you couldn’t be bothered to test your game properly.
to be fair no1 in internal testing could find such an obscure interaction lol,these things only show up when milions of players try things,and only the best of the best find them,also the ''exploit'' is a joke,we had way way worse ones
i love how exploiters snitch on themselves with comments like this, same stupidity as that Chase Bank "money glitch hack"
So you think the echo/method renown bans shouldn't had happen? Cause that was a devs error for bot fixing that.
im still not convinced chase bank thing wasnt a social experiment to see how dumb ''certain'' people are
@@09jorgewords09 the bans were pointless anyways,just revert em back and thats that
Whenever a function in a game is used in a way that people consider a "cheat," it means the developer didn’t properly account for it. Ultimately, the "cheat" is limited by the game’s own mechanics and possibilities-it’s not an external addition. Therefore, it’s not truly a cheat since it exists within the game's design. The developer should thank players for pointing out the issue and simply fix it.
if blizzard makes this possible, it is not cheating. in effect, every addon is a cheat and if they provide this api, banning people is diddiculous. and yes, the game sucks because they provide support for addons. addons it also what ruins classic/sod and the developers even build around addons, so not using all niches would be just stupid. those guys should be rewarded. and clearly a downvote for your strange opinion. i feel like a cheater every time a horn sounds that tells me to move.
Well a team could also hack their opponents accounts during races and delete their gear. That would just be clever use of blizzard security mechanics as well.
@@Mas-ij3ti Tbh that is probably the dumbest comparison I've seen. Hacking into someone elses account for even the slightest edge in a competition should have you banned permanently. As for what they did where they "Exploited" the fight this shouldnt be a ban. Honestly if you want a fair kill just have blizz fix the fight and take away there kill and have them redo the fight with the "Exploit" removed. This is 100% on blizzards end rather or not it was intended to be part of the fight that is not the teams fault for using it at all.
I think the problem generally is that blizzard doesn't make a clear stance, or line, on what is cheating or not. They also all have contact with GMs, and I am willing to bet that they specifically asked a GM about this bug before using it. Which is why you don't see him already banned.
The reason for hiding the bug is to make it harder for the other race to world first guilds to figure out how to also do this bug. You can argue this is unethical, or cheating, but this is literally just how it's always been. They used to literally not stream anything because they didn't want to give any advantage to competitors. Even now they mute coms often, turn off streams and pull bosses a handful of times.
The RWF has never really been a fair competition, they have always cheated, exploited, and rode the line of ethical. Solely because blizzard isn't harsher on them. They need a clear line of what's wrong, and right, and enforcement of that line if they want to ensure fairness. But I don't really think blizz cares about that.
Using an exploit, "it's cheating!".
Using 67 addons and plug-ins on screen, "this is not cheating!"
Describe to me how is usage of any addon cheating please.
@@Akynam First describe why you need any add on. If any of the reasons give you any advantage, it's a cheat. It's an outside program used to make the game easier. How is an add on NOT a cheat?
@@crewellye5428 Ok so is raid leader on discord that's not even in the raid calling stuff for everyone cheating ? Is looking up guides before a boss cheating because it makes the game easier for you ???? Since when advantage = cheat
@@crewellye5428you’re talking to wow players, you’re trying to talk logic to illogical people.
@@crewellye5428not to mention this isn’t just an addon, mythic rosters pay people to make weak auras so not only is this an outside the game program it’s an outside game program which you pay for.
As long as they aren't messing with the code and are just using the tools blizzard have them it's blizzards fault
true,we had WAY WAY worse exploits in the past,ret palas in dragnsoul could solo the bosses on their dmg alone,literaly no one got banned
The need for addons to play this game is purely one of the TOP reasons retail is so horrible.
And who says you need them ? Or why are they so horrible ? Would love to hear any explanation from you. I don't believe you need them and i also don't think they are bad for the game.
@@Akynam you need them in order to be on a level playing field. It's also hugely inconvenient if you don't have those add-ons. Without them, you need to put in double the effort for half of the benefit.
@@Akynam So you're telling me you would rather walk into a mythic raid, M 15+ or higher, and or play at a 2100+ pvp rating without addons not knowing when a spell is off cooldown or when the next mechanic is gunna slap you in the face and fry you into oblivion. when you could turn around, download a couple addons that literally tell you and play the game for you, all so you can make it easier on you and your party? I have zero belief you even touch the endgame of any part of wow if you are playing with zero addons because you are at such a disadvantage its actually not even funny. Now i will admit i hate addons i think they should go but i still have them because without them doing anything endgame is basically 200x harder and im not really one to enjoy putting in triple the effort just so i dont have to use addons.
yeah because a timer and an icon flashing showing you have a debuff is the issue,not that you are a baddie,or that default blizzard ui is bad
@@deenman23 Most of the time blizzard build mechanics around addons cause they know a majority of players use them... if anything players arent bad its just blizzard having bad game design. Which like i said im not a fan of addons but im def not gunna play retail wow without a few to make some of the content actually enjoyable even it its only a small amount more enjoyable.
"cheating in the championship should be banned" what a championship? blizzard has done literaly nothing, its literal a community "fun".
This type of exploit shouldn't result in a ban at all wtf are people smoking? Fix the game maybe.
What will be next? Hunters macroing all pet abilities in their own abilities to make them use them more frequently will be considered an exploit too?
He was trying to hide it so he clearly knew he was exploiting a bug
To loosely remember what Karl Jobst says: Players who are good at a game can still cheat because they've earned a legitimate reputation where others may not question or even realize when they're cheating.
Then you have this guy here who basically leaves a breadcrumb trail right back to him.
Who would have thought dei hiring would end up in dog shit
Everything is the boogeyman's fault.
@@damgfulno, he’s referring to DEI. Are the boogeymen in the room with us now?
Whether an exploit should be allowed depends on how healthy it is for the games playability. We can use Smash Bro's Melee as an example:
Wobbling: A certain character grabs you once and you die from minimal effort or thought.
This is an unintentional mechanic and is banned in competition.
Wavedashing: A universal movement option that opens up the creativety of every character.
This is an unintentional mechanic and is NOT banned in competition.
This video is 5hrs old and this happened yesterday. It was hotfixed within a few hours. In addition Liquid notified Blizzard of this bug 3 days before this and Blizz did nothing with their report. If your going to report on drama at least get the details correct and current. Not 24hrs behind.
You realise this had to be edited to be uploaded to the vod channel right? You understand how time works yeah?
Lol "weakauras play the game for you". Okay, dude. Go be a mythic raider then. Just use weakauras. Good luck!
But it is that easy? It just tells you everything lol
@@AndrewSmith-sl5zj ''tells you everything'' the terrible game design doesn't, by that logic having a raid leader call out stuff should be considered just as bad for the game ? Weak auras do not play the game for you, none of the addons do, you are controlling the character and you have to outplay the mechanics. Classic bozos acting like they could get cutting edge on retail just thanks to addons pretending like it's easy mode while they probably never tried any modern mythic bosses, all they know are their target dummy trashcan classic raids.
The fact that those dorks need that many addons to tell them how to play is hilarious to me.
yeah a timer and an icon that shows you have a debuff is whats making them play so well,its tottaly not the fact you suck lol
Blizzard just taking L's lately lol
You mean since BFA?
No?
"lately"
Did I miss something? TWW has been well recieved, the warcraft logs creator thinks based on his data the game may have broken its peak player count, they already announced the next patch, im sure something is going on with SoD and classic HC is about to have a big comeback. Oh but this mage did 4% more damage and it was immediately patched... Yikes how embarrassing what a massive L for blizz.
@@EmpyreanDreamer "the warcraft logs creator thinks based on his data the game may have broken its peak player count"
Until they return official, verified numbers I'm going with under a million subscriptions and some other million bots. Not making public player number means they hardly have anything and the only way to convince many people otherwise is to make them public again.
“Weak auras just play the game for you” instantly outing yourself as an lfr only raider. No they don’t, they become a crutch for terrible players and inflates them, but players that rely on wa’s never make it far into mythic raiding. It’s an addition to supplement good awareness and understanding.
Imfiredup did nothing wrong. He used mechanics within the game. Blizzard should have thought of this during testing. Just because the players found a way to boost their dps it's not their fault. People have done things like this since the beginning and were never banned or suspended for it.
Exactly, everything he did was doable with in game functions. He didn't need an addon to pull it off. To me the "deception" he used was more likely to hide it from other players duplicating it.
@@deorwynn3597 oh no doubt about it. He didn’t want to give anyone else an advantage. I doubt he was worried about being banned lol.
Add-ons are a problem. It also offloads a ton of responsibility for Blizz to design a good UI. It's lazy and makes the visual mess we see now.
Ir's not cheating if it's the devs' fault. Devs made the game the way it is, devs don't ban macros, devs don't ban add-ons, devs don't ban bots. It's not Bobby or Activision CEOs who make the technical decisions which results in bad game mechanics.
no its bug abusement. which is a facette of whats usually grouped under the word cheating..
@@Foatizenknechtl Weasel words. Citation needed.
In chess I could move my knight in a straight line across the board. It's not cheating, it's the dev's fault. The devs made the game the way it is.
Swapping your target frame with focus frame on the UI , he knew it was an exploit.
@Lurker_Z has no common sense lmfao😂
Making use of a bug isn't an exploit. It's on blizzard. It's not on players.
Im sure the 12 people who care about world first races in wow are gunna be very upset about this.
it has about 100k viewers just on twitch, 50k in Twitch and got knows how many on chinese streaming sites.
You really have no clue how big RWF is, do you? There's a reason why entire orgs made to capitalize off them, they're massive esport events for WoW.
wow is nr 3 in twitch atm with max just sitting in town lol
I'd say World of Warcraft would not have fallen off so hard if they went with emerging gameplay instead of punishing players. I mean in Warframe the huge amount of mobility was not intended at first, people were abusing stuff and they were like "ok, this feels cool, let's add it as a feature" and guess what, the game became better.
Emerging gameplay in WoW? Nearly all modern bosses are too hard for the average player and make people, even professional players use addons and exploits. Add addon features into the game. Fix bugs that allow exploits or if they are fun, then ADD them as a feature. There are too many players playing illegally on pirated private servers? Make the game free-to-play with a cash shop.
To be fair WoW tries to add addon features into the game but they should have went balls-deep with it and disallow addons. Cheaters should not be punished but interviewed, cooperated with and rewarded for their cooperation. Use them as testers! That's it. Only those should be banned who are doing malicious hacking and other actions that ruin the experience of other players.
Haven't played WoW for ages and as long as Blizzard is more worried about stock prices instead of making something out of WoW, I will stay away. I mean most of the mechanical development is AGAINST players "not playing right" and not about how players want to play. Also these borrowed power craps, transitional stuff that become obsolete every patch, all that is wasted development time that would be better used on the rest of the game, like updating old stuff, making old dungeons, raids and areas relevant and so on and so forth.
An in game natural exploit should NEVER be bannable, if it's there and it works fix the damn game.
Easier and cheaper to temp ban him. He gets to buy a new account and boost, blizz gets kudos for taking action and cash back for doing so
Firing/kicking Firedup would be so dumb. Tom Brady was suspended in the NFL for four games because of his involvement in Deflategate, and the Patriots didn't get rid of him. Firedup has been one of the most consistently good players for Liquid for years, it'd be a stupid mistake, and a shame, to let him go because of this.
From what I've seen of Liquid he seemed like a top player. But he was deliberately altering his UI to not show the exploit he was using, co-opting Max to not show his screen. Seemed like a bad move, Max bears some of the blame on this too, he should have called out this as bs, he will not walk away squeaky clean
As a programmer, I think this is a bug, and should just be patched.
Yeah calm down bro they're small indie developers they're going to need at least two or three months to make such a monumental change to their game I can't believe you modern gamers are so entitled sheesh.
It was fixed yesterday.
If you want a hardcore experience in WoW, then all you need do is not use mods.
Asmon making videos about WoW as if he cared or was still a player. Bro doesn't even know which expansion we're on 💀
It’s just a game; yet it’s given him everything he has.
I have a feeling that if a woman was caught cheating they would say how she's smart for taking advantage of game mechanics but since we're in this butterfly effect he's a cheater.
I mean... Exploits should be used if they're in the game. It's free game until it's patched. I agree with Zack, let them cheat. Also, addons are a stupid concept as well.
"Exploits should be used if they're in the game" - bruh, what? Exploits are called exploits because they weren't intended as a mechanic, so it's obviously cheating. If you exploit by a mistake/unknowingly then you shouldn't get banned in any game, but using macros to SPECIFICALLY exploit - that's cheating.
Exploit early, exploit often.
@@Kekmitif it’s in the game, use it
I agree that exploits generally shouldn’t be bannable but the situation is different when there’s a competition that explicitly states not to use exploits.
Imagine owning a gun in the UK when it’s illegal and going “but I didn’t shoot anyone” when caught. That’s the same logic as “but he didn’t get a kill with it!!!”
Imagine still playing WoW in 2024. So depressing.
what people are failing to realize is that Liquid gained zero measurable benefit/reward for performing this exploit, unlike Method and Echo who gained a significant reputation that translates into player power. This was probably a case where Liquid discovered the bug, tested to see if it could be reproduced consistently then asked Blizzard privately if it was intended or not. Blizzard probably told them no its not intended stop doing it and so Liquid stopped abusing the bug, end of story.
There is a significant difference between what Method and Echo did vs what Liquid did and that is why Liquid will not receive any punishment.
Exploits should not be bannable, period. How is it your fault the game has bugs. Intentionally hacking the game and cheating to accomplish something otherwise unobtainable should be 100 percent banned
Looks at video, shakes head and logs into classic. Bliss
So the best players, with the best coaches, with ample free time and custom weakauras cannot clear the raid EVEN WHILE CHEATING ??? Who gives a shit about exploits, why the fuck is the raid so hard ? What about 99.9999% of the palyerbase ? Do we just get cucked, forced to watch until the RWF is over and the raid gets nerfed ? You know what, fuck this, I'm out.
I had an argument with a friend once because he said the rtwf was good for the game when the fact that it exists just causes the game the game to be worse for everyone else
Funny part about this is that there's only one player doing it that way if one gets caught they have plausible deniability instead of having the whole team banned.