My kids were very active in sports year round. That was good for technology. Now, if we consider that new research on Habinula and how our competitive and perfectionists culture is also impacting our kids, well.... that was the side that I had to work on. My kids are adults now, and I'm a therapist. My daughter and I are constantly discussing her drive for "the next accomplishment" and seeing her self-worth through more than the accomplishment. She said, "Mom, I'm your kid!" 😂 Then I tell her, "Yes, and I barely figured this out in the last couple years for myself. I'm trying to save you a couple decades of stress and grief!"
I am always stunned with how much knowledge Mayim has and yet how humble she is. She is one of those persons who you can spend hours talking about everything and the conversation never dies or get bored
To quote philosopher Alain de Botton, more or less: it´s not having celebrities, that's the problem - it's having the wrong KIND of celebrities. There are legions of people out there, just like her, but we keep shining the spotlight on... well. Those other ones.
Airconditioning and television brought us indoors and away from real life interactions that we used to get outside when we were younger. Playing outside, walking after dinner, etc… and I’m realizing the truth in all of that in front of my tv and haven’t been out of my apartment for four days now. Wow that hit me.
Lol maybe its also the fact that we are having record heat waves. You can do exercise activities indoors and AC makes you less likely to get heat stroke
I agree about television, but I don't think air conditioning is part of the problem. I grew up with air conditioning, and I was outside all the time, and so were my peers.
But that is one of the good things about the Internet. It is easier than ever to look into a group or activity nearby. All you need to do is get outside.
I raised my kid without screens and sent him to a Waldorf-Steiner school. New neuroscience studies on brain development support the Waldorf approach. No screens! Early years are spent playing, especially outdoors, learning handwork, and hearing beautiful stories, which sets up the brain optimally for literacy and numeracy. Instruction is completely tailored to what is developmentally appropriate and students are appreciated and really seen as individuals. Learning is holistic, active, deep and meaningful, incorporating art and movement, covering the beliefs, stories, etc. of every culture, guiding the development of character, and generating curiosity and wonder. Students are taught to be independent, learning to bake their own bread, carve their own spoon and bowl, knit their own socks, sew their own clothes, make their own shelter. My kid would spend his free time roaming the woods, playing musical instruments, painting, doing embroidery, making his own toys. During the pandemic then moving to public school, the screens came in and he won't read or play music or do anything not on a screen. I commiserate with Mayim, as I've tried to limit screen time, etc and it is a constant losing battle. He has become so reactive, can't sleep, is failing school. When I take the phone away, he is completely isolated from his friends and has huge tantrums. The school has most work done on screens so I can't get him off the laptop although he uses it for social media, video games, etc. I hope Haidt's work helps build a huge movement and political action to change this techno-fascist dystopia. (Sorry to comment so much but I am passionate about this issue.)
Good choice. I spent a day shadowing a Waldorf teacher - they were the most relaxing 3 hours I've experienced in the last decade. They're doing it right. the question is, can our garbage world see their value and employ them?
@@doctorberkowitz What a great experience to have! Part of the problem with bringing a Waldorf approach to public schools is that it is expensive (small class sizes, quality materials, etc.) and part is that it relies on Steiner's anthroposophy, which many object to (lots of gnomes!). But at least we could be introducing the developmental stages of learning, no screens, and more handwork/outside play!
@@prof.jezebel I don't think gnomes are the real problem in today's world. I think we should be looking for ways to make the adult world more like a Waldorf education, and if that means more gnomes, so be it. In all seriousness, a connection to nature, slowing down, being quiet, giving choice, respecting difference, not frying our nervous system every waking moment, being kind to animals, appreciating sunshine on our face, respecting the people around us, living humbly and simply - these are all things adults need to learn. Be like little children.
I worked at a Waldorf school and those kids ROCKED. Everybody would sing and play instruments in harmony on breaks. No smoking under the bleachers on cell phones at that school! They were a joy!
My kids are 26 and 24. I hadn't heard of free-range parenting until they were both much older, but that's basically how we raised our kids. We were lucky to live a neighborhood with like-minded parents, so most of the kids walked to school, played outside, roamed the neighborhood, rode their bikes, and made their own plans and rules for play. They weren't scheduled every second of the day and had plenty of time to get bored and make mistakes and solve those problems themselves or with their friends. But, they each had friends outside of our neighborhood that had every second planned by an adult, never walked to school or even the school bus stop alone, or did anything without constant direct supervision. When they all started getting phones, the difference between how my children and our neighborhood handled their phone usage and those other kids is like night and day. My kids used their phones to make plans, set alarms, and manage their calendars. Sure, they used some social media and looked at things that they weren't allowed, but not to the point that it was more than a passing curiosity. By the time they finished college, they both thought social media was just a waste of time. They both will tell me that their peers and especially their coworkers of their age struggle with leaving their phones behind or not checking multiple time during work. My oldest worked for a sleep away camp in college, and she saw how parents would freak out about not being able to text, video call, or check tracking apps all day long. They even had parents come take their kids out of camp mid-week because they thought they could hide a phone in their kids' stuff and track them and were angry that they got caught. Parents' anxiety might be worse than kids.
Such a GREAT (in caps) episode to this old soul once a child who used to play at the street since dawn, who never saw her mom watching tv alone, who grow up watching only BBC comedies, mother of a millenial MD doc whose 3-years-old boy , and the pendulum goes to the other extreme, has forbidden any screen, tv included. During my kid’s infancy and teenage years we agreed on limits for everything, including sports, screens and playstation, among the entire group of parents of his close friends. All working parents. That was 25 years ago. It’s what I believe Jonathan Haidt proposes: a collective action. I think that it’s needed an agreement regarding phone-free schools, age of owning a smatphone and social nets worldwide. And if it’s not worldwide I fear it will be a full failure. Such a FABULOUS episode. AGAIN!
Very appreciative of Haidt's work. Also: the amygdala shrinks from 12-17 years old but kids on social media's amygdalae GREW (Journal of Neuroscience Feb 2023). This explains a lot of the emotional disregulation in this generation. My university students since 2010 spend 40-60 hrs/wk on screens just amusing themselves, can't get assignments in because they are too anxious or depressed, don't read (skim), struggle with memory and concentration, can't follow simple instructions, over-generalize, no work ethic, are working at what used to be a grade 10 level, can't take constructive criticism. Corporatization of education means we have to "keep the numbers up" and "move them through" and "students are customers" so standards have fallen greatly. The dogma in teacher colleges circa 2000 was that only the teacher was responsible for outcomes, and public schools made it so there were no consequences for handing in work late, etc. I advocated for accommodations but they've been taken too far so I'm pressured to pass students who didn't attend or hand in work for months. It's: 1) screens, 2) corporatization of education, 3) no student accountability, 4) culture of narcissism, extremism and entitlement that does not support intellectual or emotional maturation. Lastly, I love my students, they are lovely people who support diversity, want to do well, and are suffering with loneliness as well as anxiety and depression. It's not their fault. We let the tech bro billionaires determine how we live.
I find validation in so much.of what you are saying! (Taught at college level beginning on 86-grad school- to '22). Max Weber talked about education being a product for consumption as early as the 19th century, but schools competing for student dollars are to blame for caving in to the pressures of "I paid you tuition money, you owe me a passing grade."
I just wrapped up a 34 year teaching career spanning elementary in my early years, and including high school and college in my latter years. Your post is concise and eloquent and I concur wholeheartedly with you.
@@LindaC616 Thank you so much! I will check out Weber. It's also the governmental calls for "accountability" so courses like Classical Studies, the Metaphysical Poets, etc. are cut due to low enrolment. We are losing whole bodies of knowledge in the Arts & Humanities.
@@gardenbun Thank you. I hope all of us educators can speak more freely about this. We get called "bad teachers" or "student-haters" if we try to address these issues. So glad you are onto new pastures!
Great show! I am a boomer and an amateur social anthropologist and noticed a generational decline in applied knowledge, critical thinking and imagination. The greatest challenge of this era is recognize technology as a tool and not as an alternative lifestyle.
OMG THANKYOU!!!! I am school psychologist and I've fought with admins and parents and the system of schools about phones in schools... etc. The things I've seen are infuriating because it's like I'm the only adult pushing back and trying to make boundaries for kids. I left schools because of the frustration. It's like watching an major crash happen in show motion. How can I help??? I don't know what to do
My daughter is 40, I shared this with her, thinking it was so powerful and thought provoking. When she sees the length of the podcast, she responded: “I’m not watching that it’s 2 hours long!” That’s a prime example of this huge problem, no one has enough “time” (attention span) to watch/listen/read long enough to even learn something helpful to be able to have a thoughtful conversation! Everything that’s discussed is in reference to something seen on IG or TikTok!
Why are you talking bad about your daughter on TH-cam? Maybe that’s why she doesn’t what to watch and she’s using time as an excuse. I wouldn’t watch anything my mom suggested if she talked about me like that online. Show some respect.
@@staceystrukel1917 lol. Holy cow THATS what you got out of that. Bless your heart. It is a comment on the hits of dopamine that short form content provides, which is a huge part of this podcast. (1:07:00)
I’m so glad. But not everyone has fallen into the extremes of social media effects. Unfortunately many have. Direct comment to what was just discussed.
Parasocial effects is also huge. I stepped away from online communities I was very active in for years. I didn’t announce it and only on e person reached out to see if I was okay. The rest really didn’t care or notice. I was a mod on several of those channels.
Building a future society with children who give up screen time for healthier options of playing is a dream for many parents of this era. We are in a phase where so much around the world has changed between our childhood and adulthood. So, those methods our parents used to raise us, however good and effective they were, wouldn’t necessarily work for our children. We cannot say or ask our children to behave a certain way without them questioning us why. I believe having a close relationship with our kids and building a mutual trust since childhood will help establish a constant conversation between us and our children about many things they are exposed to. Thus, we may explain to them the consequences of being exposed to or addicted to gadgets or distractions that may deter them from identifying what they are passionate about and focusing on getting better in fields of their interests. I believe we must expose our kids to healthy activities like music, dance, sports, martial arts, gymnastics, riding/skating etc etc and let them figure out which activity engages them the most and encourage them to get better and better at that. Let not the gadgets distract the kids but let the physical activities we expose them to distract them from the gadgets. This is my opinion as I’m a stay at home mom and I’m able to push my daughter to find out what she likes. However for working parents, this may be a challenge. Whatever it may be, I agree with Jon that we must not expose the kids to what we don’t want them to get addicted to and we must try to expose them to as many fun filled activities there are that may be engaging and stimulating the body n mind. So many good opportunities out there, we need just to guide them in the way it is less likely for them to fall trap to self destructive ways of life. Thank you Mayim for enabling such thought provoking podcasts, I love them and can’t get enough of. Love Mayim ❤ love your zeal!
Hi, Mayim! Good morning, sweetheart! And yes, this is true! Our childhood has been ripped away from us when we're young, or when we were younger and stuff! And it's horrible! Young people today are suffering from addiction and mental health problems and it's bad! You nailed it, Mayim, my girl!
I have a toddler and I try to be the best example I can for her. This episode gave me a lot to think about. Thanks again, Dr. Mayim. You’re the best! 🥰
Great episode. Resonant. Children born in ‘02 & ‘05. Both impacted by depression & anxiety… phones and social media are certainly contributing factors. My ex husband and I did NOT want to get kids phones for 5th grade moving up into MS… with two years of anticipatory parental chatter at sports games and school concerts, we tried to voice our rationale to simmer in the discussions:costs, adult resources for support at school, didn’t need phones for emergencies but teachers & other adults… but in the end, the tide was overwhelmingly to get phones for graduation and the desire among kids was peaked. We didn’t want them to be the odd ones out socially and decided we would manage it. This was not so easy to do. Parental controls were not yet mainstream established tools, & by the time they were becoming accessible the technological expertise was well in favor of kids vs. our understanding and ability. I’m all for limits, controls and deferrals. I will look to see how I can facilitate locally. Ty for the thrust!
Boy that’s true. We all did what we thought was a great idea didnt we? 🤦🏼♀️I’m totally to blame for my kids being glued to their phones! (I’m not saying anything negative towards you, didn’t want you to think that! lol. I was mostly agreeing and confessing my own guilt. lol)
We should be looking at how parenting and the development of babies is being impacted. I see parents giving the phone to very young babies. Motor skills are impacted, followed by play skills, language and behavior/regulation. Add stress, lack of space, poor food choices , and lack of resources and the results are devastating.
Really really good. Enlightening. I can't imagine how parents cope with kids, cell phones and social media. You want your kids to go out and play but then you run the risk of being accused of abuse and rumors abound that everything is so unsafe. I think parents compensate by becoming shuttle services. Shuttle the kids to soccer practice, dancing classes, swimming, etc. Social interactions between parent and child are limited to conversations in the car.
I limited my kids' screen time to a half hour of games and an hour of films/streaming. It completely backfired when they could make their own choices as adults and played hours and hours of games. They then made healthy choices as older adults with a wonderful balance of movement, etc. I am very proud of them.
This is another powerful and incredible episode. I have struggled with my kids being on their phones and social media so much. They are so anxious and can't figure out how to do things on their own, and part of me has no idea how to fix it now. The mental health aspects of all of this is difficult on both my kids and myself. I try to tell them to take mental health days and get off the screens and go outside, but it is difficult.
This guest makes ME anxious about what lies ahead for my 7 yr old! (Not a smart phone, that's for sure.) I do appreciate the actionable steps we can take to turn this around. I believe we will! Love to all. 🧠🤓❤
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
I wish they were readily available in my place. Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac. He's constantly talking about killing someone. He's violent. Anyone reading this Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Can he send me SOME at the Phish show?! Where Cheap Trick just had opened for them?! But now Hoping Nobody Falls for this BS Garbage is about to take the stage, and it really just is NOT the same without some of that mushroom TOP that just will NOT STOP! Sorry I gotta go GTFOH is about to play my favorite song of all time, "I WISH Scam artists would just get the hell off TH-cam already ffs!" Thanks again, in advance! YOU POS's! LmMFaO!!! ;) :P :o)
I have been microdosing psilocybin for my ADHD/anxiety/major depression and have had some small noticeable improvements. My brother, however, did a macrodose and came out of it worse than before. He now has literal OCD, whereas before it was mostly just tendencies. He fixates on the same past events that he wishes he could’ve changed, he is convinced our mom and dad are both narcissists and he’s their scapegoat child. He lives with them still at 36 years old and gained full custody of his daughter after a long process in court and has frequent explosively angry outbursts where he will be absolutely contemptuous to our mom (who has her faults but she always been good to us) in front of his child (as he brings up how he used to “protect” my boys when me and my ex husband had bad arguments so they wouldn’t have to witness the anger) and yet he claims he had a miracle healing with that experience of macrodosing. He claims psilocybin has opened his mind up to the reality of having horrible parents who have taught him nothing and wouldn’t let him leave their house (that’s total BS) while then also saying how worthless he is that he lives there, has no job due to his horrible mental health and won’t be accountable for his poor decisions. Won’t seek therapy or any sort of medication since he’s “healed” now. He’s literally a bomb about to explode and get violent with whoever’s in the house at the time. WOW sorry, long winded rant. But the moral of the story is, I believe that psychedelics can have serious negative consequences when mixed with some mental illnesses, whether known and mild, or lying dormant and triggered by the psychedelic, bringing on psychosis. So be careful y’all! ❤
I remember at 15 deciding to leave home and go to my sister's home in Rhode Island. I got on a bus, went to the bank which was in a different town where I had a checking account with my dad,took out a few hundred dollars went to the train station and got on a train from NJ to NYC. Went shopping on 5th Avenue by walking there then took a bus to Rhode Island. The bus stop was not far from her home. My son who is disabled 32 is unable to make an appointment with the dusabled transport to be picked up at home to go shopping in town. I wind up having to do it, and it drives me nuts that he refuses to even try. As a kid I was impatient to grow up and leave home, he refuses to leave his room. I now insist he go to the grocery store, interact with the deli people and do the shopping by himself, I am now 70 and he needs to be able to function in society. Until he was in high school he used to go out and play without supervision, read books, rode his bicycle. Now he is glued to his PS5 and does not want to do anything even with me.
Awh man. I’m a psychologist who works with children and am very due to give birth to my first baby. When I say I will have no screens for my children as much as is humanly possible I mean it. I’ve seen too many parents cry to me about how much screens have impacted their child’s behaviour and development. Now I just have to work on putting the phone down myself 😅
Great episode. The Waldorf is a good solid experience for kids. My dad was one of the first students at the original school in Stuttgart. He later, after WWII became a teacher there. I was raised in the Waldorf environment. My wife and I kept our kids off the beginning of screens but they are very capable in its use. My son is a network manager. The result for my dad was he was able to survive the war in good mental shape because of his Waldorf experience. I also co-founded two Waldorf schools in Washington State. So, Mayim keep up your excellent work.
So impressive! You and your father have made the world a better place with this work! As a former Waldorf parent, I am so grateful for the rich experience we had not just at school but in creating a Waldorf home. Waldorf helps us all focus on what has real value and meaning and gives us a vision of a beautiful world worth fighting for. I am so touched by your father's survival.
The real problem when trying to put restrictions and limitations for our kid's technology is that parents/adults are addicted to their phones too. Very few adults will admit that. How can we guide our kids when we can't even help ourselves.
I'm your age Mayim, and I grew up mostly indoors playing with Legos lol. I went outside occasionally when the kids next door came and rang our doorbell, but mostly in the eighties already, we just went to each other's houses to play the first ever computer games on the Commodore 64 or later the NES. I already was glued to the screen I'm afraid. Now it's just pocket size. But I didn't mind talking to people, like for asking directions or anything practical. I had no problem with that. I just didn't feel a need to have friends apart from in school.
This is on the dot!!! We are all addicts now!! My daughter is almost 35. When she was a teen and all her friends were getting phones or were dressing inapproprietly for school, I put my foot down as a single mom and said " NO". She didn't get a phone till she was 16 and started going out with her friends. Since I was taxi-mom, we needed to be able to reach each other where ever we were, so I could pick her up. She had a flip top on which it took forever to send a text messege, but she could always call me. I felt she was safe having a phone. Cell phones have changed so much now, we have become slaves to them. I agree that action has to be taken collectively. We are making too many people rich at the expense of our liberty and sanity!!
I heard someone say that theres been this shift - older generations were out living their own lives, and now this generation is watching other people live their lives. So incredibly sad. I don’t have kids but wonder if that realization would help. Or that they’re being cerebrally manipulated by big corporations turning them into zombies. Or that their brain chemistries and neurotransmitters are being massively altered, setting them up for a lifetime of anxiety, depression and eventually chronic illness. Feels impossible to roll this back.
Were older generations really living their own lives? How many women were in housewifr/SAHM situations that the genuinely didnt want to be in, but did so anyway to conform to society? How many neurodivergent? LGBT?
This episode brought to light my own addiction to technology - trying to keep up with Instagram, Facebook and in my case SoundCloud takes so much time in my daily spectrum - it is shocking how I easily ignore the effort involved - Thanks Mayim and Jonathan for my daily dose of cool brain juice❤
My partner of 20 years has chosen the phone , television and computer over being in a communicating and intimate relationship. He is in his 60's now and I figure if he wanted to be present he would. I only have instragram now and limit myself to messaging friends and family and viewing some feed. I enjoy a lot of outdoor life . Im so glad my son has chosen to keep social media and phones at a distance . I text with a few people but calling people keeps my reality in check. I do resent the fact that I have to have a phone with me at all times for various reasons. It really sucks!!!!!!!
Awesome episode, as a 22 year veteran teacher and mother who is Gen X, this made so much sense of what I saw with my own children growing up and the things that have changed in the years that I have been teaching. I'm excited to share it!
My almost 8 yr old daughter decided to goto her mom's house randomly today. She got lost a block around the corner. We found her but after almost 2 hours, plus police. Divorce plus lack of neighborhood makes free range impossible
Powerful. As an educator, schools must ban phones. Since Covid all we have heard about is the students’ mental health and more mental health personnel have been hired, but we must start from scratch with no phones during the school day - not in the halls, cafe or study halls. Parents must cooperate. Teachers spend so much time battling the phones in class that it takes away from instruction and learning. Furthermore, hs students have great difficulty working collaboratively on class projects or presentations. It use to be one kid that was so introverted and needed to work by themself, but now it’s so many that prefer to work alone. There is no learning or problem solving with theirs. It’s scary stuff.
I have a step grandchild that is just a mental mess. Her Mom gave her and iPhone at age 10. This kid is incredibly self-centered and manipulative. She has no friends, people avoid her and that was before she got a smart phone. Her social skills are non-existent. Due to this child acting out so negatively, she had to see a psych Doc. They took her phone away and the kid lost it and just blew up. There's been so much that has happened, There's very little out there for kids that are mentally ill in the way of resources. It's sad.
Maybe a way to make this child feel more welcome and part of a family, you could stop referring to them as a "step" whatever. They're your grandchild. Full stop! I say this from experience with my "step" grandmother. My mom married my dad when I was 4 and a half. I'd known him since I was 2, his family knew me since then also. When I was around 8 or 9, I was with my grandmother for a Saturday afternoon. I thought it was going to be fun. She just needed help setting up for her church ladies' meeting. I helped, because I thought I was being helpful. I was wrong! As the participants showed up they started to inquire as to who I was. My grandma acted like she didn't hear these ladies. Finally when push came to shove she introduced my to a crowd of about 50, over a PA system, she proclaims, "This child is my step granddaughter Lisa." I was confused as I didn't know what "step" meant, as she had never stepped on me. Long story made shorter, that day is burned into my brain. Her words I still hear to this day, I'm 52 now. Please choose your wording carefully when it involves children. Especially children that are already having issues. The biggest issue could be that this child doesn't feel valued or loved. Just my two cents from my own experience.
First of all, don’t negatively speak of a child in your family on TH-cam. Second, the family dynamics are the problem NOT the phone. Parenting behaviors need to change and the child will change. I love the commment below yours where the person spoke about what they learned for them to change to help their family. Learn from them.
@@jasong9492the way children are perceived and treated are very significant. It has much of a greater impact on mental health than technology ever could
I grew up in the late 70s early 80s. Friends hung out all summer, being bored together. If one of us had money, we'd find somewhere at the mall where we could all get something to eat. We had stupid 12 year old philosophical discussions. We learned to get along with people who were different than us. Those are real friendships. Kids now don't form friendships. They think online people are friends. They also can't be bored for two seconds. Learning to be bored is a necessary adult skill.
@@Mermareit depends on the level of connection you build with them. My partner made online friends years ago and now we go visit them in person yearly
I have (for the most part) trusted my gut with raising my children now 7&10 (which included Beyond The Sling). My gut has told me for years that play is crucial to a childhood and normal development and that phones in childrens' hands is dangerous. Thank you for putting this out in the open and suggesting new books, websites, and finding like-minded parents.
When I got my first phone at the age of 14, which was the only one I let my parents pay for, I noticed in the first week that a part of me was disappearing. I wasn't as lighthearted anymore. I didn't think much of it at the time. Something like "hmm, so that's what it feels like to be a real teenager" Stupid, I know. I just didn't know any better. Today I sometimes question if my life would be better without a phone and if it would even work. But one step at a time.
There's always older phones without the screen. What makes it difficult for a lot people is the work expectation to be reachable all the time, to be able to login all the time.
@@lyndsaybrown8471 That's actually a problem I luckily don't have. I'm European and my boss has to leave me alone outside of working hours. And if he still decides to contact me, I can ignore him. But during work I have to be quickly reachable by my colleagues, usually with messages. We sometimes work on different sides of the city. Then information has to be passed on quickly or objects have to be moved from one place to another. By tram! But anyway, I've heard about the working conditions in the USA and I have to say they are disturbing to me. And criminal if you go by European laws! So I get it, I think🤗 Correct me if I'm wrong.
This is a great episode. I feel more motivated to cut back on Facebook. That's the only platform I'm on. Honestly, I've been on it for about 16 years now, and I've been finding it not to be as fun as I once did. There are so many ads and other stuff in my newsfeed that I see less friend stuff. What I'm surprised to hear is Mayim saying she is off social bc I follow her on Facebook. There are multiple Reels of this episode, posts about the Israeli war in Gaza & even an advertisement for her & Jonathan doing an Instagram live. So I'm not sure I understand her comment that she's off social. Nonetheless, very scary what this is doing to kids. I'm grateful I grew up before all of this.
Thank you for the John Green .... I am passing all of this on to my son for his children . I see first hand the disgusting fallout from parents dumping their children on social media. I also see the results of parents who stand firm on not introducing it to their children . Harsh words are necessary people . Don't ever assume the big companies have your best interest at heart. They are hiring people to figure out how to exploit you . Best of luck to all those precious minds. They are our future.
Loved this video. I have a 20 year old daughter who has been dating a 21 year old guy who spends an enormous amount of money on toys that would appeal to an 8 year old. He lives at home with his parents, his mother does his laundry and pays his auto insurance. Could this be an example of what the Internet has done? Or could this just be a developmental issue he has?
People used to know that getting outside at sunrise and sunset was helpful to our body clocks and being outside after dinner time helped with their digestion and relaxation for sleep time. We used to know our neighbors and had them for support and companionship in our neighborhood. I still know the neighbors in my childhood neighborhood, and know no one in my own. I can see how times have changed this sense of community. In my neighborhood I NEVER see kids playing outside, and barely see adults as everyone hires out lawn work these days and we aren't forming acquaintances around our children's friendships.
Trying to grapple with this issue, my kids are 5 and 3. All they want is to play, but now my daughter is asking me more often if we can go play Zelda together. Which I sort of love too, because I get to play Zelda and she usually gets bored with how long it takes me to solve the puzzles and plays with toys while she watches. We also have a Zelda collector’s book that belongs to me, but explores all the game design, development and storylines of all the games that she likes to read. She also loves to read generally and is very art-oriented, she was voted best artist in her PreK class. It makes sense to me that visual narratives connect with her. She starts kindergarten next month and can write all her letters, her own ten letter name (why did I do that to her? And my son has a silent letter in his, like damn, poor planning lol) and can read some sight words. She’s just so verbal which I love but I worry it will make her an early tech adopter. I’m trying to provide all the richness the world has to offer offline, though. She’s super into Medusa and mythology/fairies/magic generally, last night we read the 12 trials of Heracles in her Greek myths for kids book and it was like 15 pages of text 😂 I’m really hoping to keep my kids away from social media until they’re teens. I know it’s a losing battle, but they’re showing such good and productive qualities toward imagination and building, it’s just so difficult because of the TH-cam overlord. I ask them what they want to do and they ask if they can watch a video, like that is such an immediately satisfying media experience that doesn’t let them feel bored ever, and I don’t want that to impact their self-sufficiency or ability to create purpose for themselves. My 5yo daughter says “I’m bored” while I’m washing dishes, I tell her “then find something to do” and she goes and makes herself a jeweled crown from the craft supplies. I put TH-cam on for them and do the dishes and hear nothing because they’re just staring at the tv, I really don’t want that for their future. I’m thinking smart watches when they get to an age where they’re harassing me for a phone. That seems more common for millenial parents (who are concerned about social media’s impact on a child’s health) to get for their young kids.
I also think the attitude on kids having phones in schools has changed. I graduated in 2005, almost all of my friends had phones. We could text and play snake, and THAT WAS NOT ALLOWED IN CLASS. We were not allowed to have phones out and teachers would take them until the end of class (or sometimes the end of the day) if you did. It seems that doesn’t happen anymore, like every high schooler has a phone and they use them in school all day long. How do teachers put up with this when the capabilities for cheating on schoolwork and them being distracted by the phone, these are both SO MUCH HIGHER now than they were back when I wasn’t allowed to have one in class. I don’t understand why the tolerance has become higher as the device has become even more distracting and powerful?
@@jelemil I don’t envy teachers now, there seem to be a lot of parents that don’t want their kids to have any sort of consequence for their behavior and thus the kids don’t learn those “actions have consequences” lessons until adulthood when they’re not nearly as safe from the fallout. Kids need to learn “if I don’t do the work I will fail” before it’s their livelihood on the line. I try to encourage my kids to be hard workers who are thoughtful and empathetic toward others and toward problem solving, it’s just too early yet to know if it will stick. But I’m constantly thinking about my kids’ place in this world and the kind of adults I hope they will be. I want them to be kind and respectful and generous more than I want them to be smart. But I also want them to be smart 😂 it’s a tough balance, especially when “the rules” are so different between families.
@Schu0086 I just finished a year at a private high school. Previously, I had taught at the college level for over 20 years. At the college level, I would just give them a zero for their participation grade for the day, make a note, and if there were too many days like that, I would just send them an email. You can kick a college student out of class. You can't do that with high schoolers. So yes, last year, I would indeed take their phones at the beginning of the hour every hour. And I knew that there were some other instructors who did the same. I believe that the new head of school, who came last year, has read Jonathan's current book and is going to implement a no phones during the day at school policy
Mayim, I had the same problem with video games back in the late 90's/early 2000's and on. I thought the kids should have only an hour or two here and there on the gameboy/console games/computer games. My spouse fought me and fought me on this and the kids had way too much time on them. I even asked the pediatrician and he wouldn't back me up. Said if their grades were ok they can play. But how much? I could see my kids acting very different when I tried to get them to come to eat, go to bed, do a chore. They did not want to get off any device they were on and they became nasty about it. It was always a fight and was always on me to get them to transition to something else. I gave up on many things because I had to fight the kids, fight my spouse, fight the dr. It was too much. I feel like I failed them, but everyone was so unprepared back then. Something needs to be done to give kids back a more normal childhood. Not with just social media, but also with gaming. My sons had flip phones in middle and high school, no internet. Graduated high school in early 2010's. Full internet phones weren't until they were in college because we didn't want the expense, lol. None of us had them and then we all had them. Younger son still has lots of anxiety and has depression. Even with not having to deal with social media. Maybe the world becoming smaller isn't really a good thing. People aren't just worried/anxious about their own country, now they see what's going on all over the world. More so than with just the TV. Many governments have not been proactive with mental health, especially when it's due to social media/bullying. The US politicians are more worried about making money and keeping the richest even richer, than doing anything for mental health, homelessness, high rent, high food/necessity costs, etc for the middle class and poor.
I'm 25 and definitely addicted to my phone. I've been without work for 1.5 years due to burnout (nurse during covid). I'm now at a point where i desperately want to work and get among people. I don't even know what my local small holidays are and look like, because my mom never took part with us. Now I'm facing the problem of always fleeing stress by reaching for my phone and reading of playing games. I've deleted almost all social media apps because I noticed how my view shifted to a hostile one towards men. But I cannot spend stime at home with nothing running in the background. The silence is torture to me, so now I'm trying to justify the screentime by saying I'm listening to podcasts. But I am still at a point where boredom actually scares me, I am absolutely terrified of being bored. If I'm asked to make some sort of plans I automatically tell think about how to not be bored on my way there etc. Even now I'm sitting here fully dressed wanting to go for a walk only to notice my earbuds weren't charged and I'm just waiting for them. It's truly sad, I am sad for myself but I don't know how to change. Of course I enjoy reading a trashy webnovel for 10 hours but I know I am missing out on so much more I've never experienced due to mental health issues starting in my teenage years.
As a person without children this was all fascinating. And I find it helpful for myself and my patience as a licensed massage therapist and emotion tracing practitioner! I will pass on this info to many others. Thank you❤
Really enjoyed this episode, the information on different generations, how much tech has changed everything we do , and to today, where I envisioned my own 10 year old daughter in all of the different scenarios mentioned. Really fascinating stuff! Mayim brought up SO many important and relevant points as well ! Thank you for this conversation!
Our kids are all in their ‘30’s. The day we got the internet I said we’ve let the devil into our home. Computer was in a common space so I could see what they were doing. Sometimes I hate being right.
When I was a teacher, I tried to remind my students that I didn't have a bell or flashing light, nor did I drop coins from the ceiling. In a classroom, a student has to request--or misbehave--to gain instant feedback, and it might be negative feedback when they are pushing boundaries, and because you only have one life, no one gets an instant reset. It feels almost Pavlovian to watch children drool for media feedback. What role does intrinsic reward play in all this where the task is the reward (reading for enjoyment, tidying up, chatting with friends)? Grades provide such a disconnected type of feedback and often seem arbitrary, wages are delayed gratification with another whole set of feedbacks and may never reflect the excellence of the accomplishment.
Some parents are just as addicted and text their kids during school hours....the boundaries have been blurred and unfortunately there are parents need that constant sense of control.
One time, I was out and about, and runnin' a couple of errands in town, probably a couple years ago, and, I was in between phones and tbh I'd enjoyed my time without one and I wasn't in a terrible hurry to replace mine, as it were, but anyway. It had started getting late I could tell, and heading to the restroom, someone happened to be coming out just as I'd been about to walk IN. Stopping him, I politely asked, "Escuse me...I hate to bother you but do you have the time?" He was already scrolling through his phone so I know he did, and he told me the time, yes, BUT, I wouldn't say he happily did SO. The look he gave me was like I'd gotten him to stop, so, I could tell him how much I love to annoy people when I practice playing bagpipes or maybe the accordion badly on purpose. Or, the way he acted relaying the TIME TO ME, by movin' his eyes vertically momentarily, simply to read it from off of his screen, you would almost have thought, that I'd asked him if I could borrow his watch indefinitely, not just what time it'd gotten to BE! SHEESH!! LmMFaO!!! ;) :P :o)
Thank you so much for this interesting episode with Jonathan Haidt regarding childhood and technology. I enjoy a whole lot listening to the various and interesting conversations that happen on this podcast. This is a really great channel beautiful Mayim! ❤
We need to talk about how screens harm ADULTS. Everyone has mush brain and doesn't do anything but scroll or watch TV with their free time these days. Also, there are so many retired folks absolutely addicted to Facebook, Twitter, news programs, and all that. They're also really gullible. People who didn't grow up with the internet have no defenses against it.
This was an exceptional episode. It gives me hope for future generations in changing the ones now. It is challenging to raise a child with parents who have opposing perspectives on the purchase of a smartphone, when to use it, how to use it, social media etc. Good cop/bad cop scenario where the child ends up confused by the power struggle and difference in value systems. 🤷♀️🤦♀️. I’m happy to see that schools are being proactive in establishing boundaries over phone use. It establishes priorities and respect around education in all forms.
I just wrapped up this podcast and enjoyed the many excellent points therein, particularly the notion of exploitation of younger teens. A colleague of mine experienced the horror of one of their early-teens kids being baited into a "felonious photographic exploitation of a minor" situation (because you can't say k***** p*** here). While I can acknowledge now that such crimes existed when I was their age, some 30-odd years ago, it never even occurred to me at the time then that such a risk existed... and this was when I learned that teenage pregnancy wasn't just an existential after school special. (Not mine, fortunately, but I remember the "No, this actually can and does happen." realization quite clearly.)
Also, I just noticed the back catalogue of your podcasts and the many excellent guests therein. Prepare for significant media consumption from me and the revenue thereof (ironic though the situation may be. Big fan!) ❤
I am not a parent and I have wondered how schools deal with having phones everywhere. I completely agree with banning phones in school, however, I have a thought that perhaps mostly Americans might have: What about having a phone in case of emergency, G-d forbid, for the especially American potential crisis of a school shooting? Children have used their phones during these active shooting crises to call for help and to let their parents know where they are and what is happening. It is absolutely terrible that this is where my mind goes, and I just wonder if kids now need to have their phones in school in case of real emergencies?
My frustration is that nobody will read a paragraph anymore. Every online news story is one sentence with two hard returns and then a sentence. Any social media post has to be under 100 words with two hard returns between each sentence. If you chose to open and read the content and then you are too distracted to read the content, what is wrong with us? People do read books. I read two books a week. I read a 400 page book last week (The WEIRDest People in the World). For context I am Gen X with no kids.
I just saw something last night on one of the letter stations-CBS maybe? It was called Generation Swipe…one of the teens said she and her friends communicate through snap chat and then when they are together, they don’t have anything to say bc it’s all been communicated through the app. That emphasizes Haidt’s point. I felt the same way when cell phones became affordable. I loved talking on the phone at night withy friends and it went away within months bc we were talking at various points all day 😢
29:22 My 16 year old now has a flip phone after not having a phone for over a year. They got lost within the responsibility of having all the info at their disposal and couldn’t handle it properly so we intervened and took that responsibility away. My kid is happier, more engaged, kinder, and does sit and doom scroll and compare to others. I just want to encourage others that it’s not too late to help if your kid isn’t prepared or able to handle those responsibilities. They can text but it’s a deterrent for sure.
I learned so much from this. Thank you. And just a quick think Jonathan said that crystalized for me. I do watch the sweet animal short videos and if I do it too long you're exactly right it turns into something gross or puts me in sympathetic rather than parasympathetic. It gelled that that's on purpose.
This epi hit home so hard. I have been advertising this book by word of mouth for Anyone who will listen. My 15 yo will not ask Anyone Anything. Granted he is ADD, but not a teacher, not a friend, not a cust service agent. He'd rather not know, he would rather fight with me, anything other than 'finding out' using language. This topic is So Relevant. I need conversations on how to reduce phone use without my child trying to kill me. How will this generation cope let alone thrive????
My son has had a phone since 13. And I truly regret it. Wish i would have waited. I try to control screen time, but its always a world ending fight. What are some ideas to limit or approaches to limit his screen time?
When I was pregnant or very early in motherhood, I watched an episode with Lisa Ling on screen addiction. Learned that major executives and creators wouldn't let their kids near an iPad or apps they work for. I work here and my kid will not have access to the things other kids have, was the moment I decided on a few things with screens. Now I'm not saying I'm completely screen free with my kid but definitely won't allow youtube and no hand held devices.. now she goes to a Waldorf school and will continue in a montessori school this school year and will stay there until high school.. no screens no phones in school and if that's the case I will follow the no phone until high school..
I’ve been to Joe Rogan’s The Mothership comedy club once, & I love that they take our phones & don’t return them until after the show is over. It really makes for a great experience!
2012 was def a tipping point. 2012-2016 feels like a huge growth spurt to the point where someone who said let's go back to the past was successful as a cult leader.
This episode is so relevant. So needed. Thank you for this valuable message to be better stewards of the next generation. We see the problem, now let's fix it!! ❤
I excited that our 6-year-old grandson is NOT interested in TV. We occasionally go to a movie in a theater (An event)! His 2-year old sister is not aware of screens. The kids are both in bed before their parents watch a movie, or stream something!
Summer nights playing outside till dark with the front porches dotted with parents on lawn chairs. Good memories. Having lived thru the 60s to now, and considering tech and personal freedoms, I think the 70s were the last decade we were as free as we ever will be. Like, go to the bar when you were 18 is insane in the USA now. In high school we could go to Planned Parenthood no questions asked and get birth control. In that aspect society has become infantilized. The ability to take our own responsibility has been removed. Kids used to pack up the beater and drive off to college and be happy about it.
8th graders or younger now have school chrome-books or tablets or laptops provided by schools. They totally find ways to get on to social media even when the school supposedly has security on the computers or systems. So just an fyi in case you withhold the phone. That may not even be needed any longer when they have a school issued laptop thing.
Thanks guys, for this episode! It gives SO much insight into my 20 year old's brain! We do impose limits on her, but I have a much better understanding of her "anti social " behavior.
@carriemarie7535 She's a college student with ADHD who lives with us, and we have rules about screen time NOT taking precedence over family time. There's a lot more to the story, but it's really no one's business, thanks for your concern...
Nurture, Nature and Network! At what point do algorithms start shaping who a child ( or even an adult really) becomes? Machines are tailoring the visibility of information and entertainment based on what it perceives we like. At least, that's how it starts! Eventually (and quickly) children are in a bubble of content decided by the algo. It's showing what it thinks they would like and then they consume it. So are any of us truly able to say that we are who we are because of nurture and Nature any more? I think we need to add Network! Interesting humans are a mixed bag, full of contradictions, informed by meeting people that are DIFFERENT than ourselves and developing empathy and tolerance for that.If you have a machine only showing you more of the same or related items, it's no wonder we are living through one of the most divided times in history! How much of who we are today is because of what our algorithms have decided we would find interesting? This is what scares me and I'd love Jonathan to write a book focused on this particular outcome of living in modern society!
It plays with my polarities hahaha Gives me motivation and, at the same time, some thinking about "do I really wanna do that"... great conversation!! a lot to do so i can share about with people I care and/or work with!
I like to broadcast or stream child appropriate videos from TH-cam kids to my TV in my living room by using a Roku or Amazon device. I have more control of what they are watching.
The not asking questions piece that totally answers my puzzlement with young people that are clerks. If there's a little problem I give them a suggestion like a coffee bar running out of cream. I couldn't convince the young clerk that the owner would appreciate it if he pulled a bottle of cream out of stock so the people would buy more coffee. In the long run it's more money. He could not grasp that and that is a common experience I have I can't think themselves out of a little problem
The thing you also made us realize is that we as a society have a lot of expectations / tighter rules as parents. So it can feel impossible. People always say kids need to play outside, but also that if you aren’t watching your kids like a hawk and if anything would happen - child services could be involved for neglect. Parents in the 90s and earlier did not watch their kids like a hawk. So how do you mesh that world ideas with today’s world expectations.
Car driving down our street called police when my 7 year old was standing outside his own house without supervision. Police came, actually took my information as I fretted that I actually might have done something wrong. I knew where he was, and that damn car just kept driving after they screamed to him to go home. Changed the way I did things, who needs the police called on them??
I would love to hear a perspective about screen time and Educational Technology in schools. Does the use of EdTech in schools feed into the sedentary childhood (elementary school and middle school years)?
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Have you struggled with curbing your kids' screen time? What HAS worked and what HASN'T?? Let us know down below! 😮💨🙏
My kids were very active in sports year round. That was good for technology. Now, if we consider that new research on Habinula and how our competitive and perfectionists culture is also impacting our kids, well.... that was the side that I had to work on. My kids are adults now, and I'm a therapist. My daughter and I are constantly discussing her drive for "the next accomplishment" and seeing her self-worth through more than the accomplishment. She said, "Mom, I'm your kid!" 😂 Then I tell her, "Yes, and I barely figured this out in the last couple years for myself. I'm trying to save you a couple decades of stress and grief!"
I am always stunned with how much knowledge Mayim has and yet how humble she is. She is one of those persons who you can spend hours talking about everything and the conversation never dies or get bored
I consider her like a friend even tho I am just huge fan of her genius wit and this podcast!🎉
This is so true! Thank you Mayim!
Me too! I’d like to spend a full afternoon talking with her aout life!
To quote philosopher Alain de Botton, more or less: it´s not having celebrities, that's the problem - it's having the wrong KIND of celebrities. There are legions of people out there, just like her, but we keep shining the spotlight on... well. Those other ones.
Yes!!!!!!
Airconditioning and television brought us indoors and away from real life interactions that we used to get outside when we were younger. Playing outside, walking after dinner, etc… and I’m realizing the truth in all of that in front of my tv and haven’t been out of my apartment for four days now. Wow that hit me.
Lol maybe its also the fact that we are having record heat waves. You can do exercise activities indoors and AC makes you less likely to get heat stroke
I agree about television, but I don't think air conditioning is part of the problem. I grew up with air conditioning, and I was outside all the time, and so were my peers.
But that is one of the good things about the Internet. It is easier than ever to look into a group or activity nearby. All you need to do is get outside.
I raised my kid without screens and sent him to a Waldorf-Steiner school. New neuroscience studies on brain development support the Waldorf approach. No screens! Early years are spent playing, especially outdoors, learning handwork, and hearing beautiful stories, which sets up the brain optimally for literacy and numeracy. Instruction is completely tailored to what is developmentally appropriate and students are appreciated and really seen as individuals. Learning is holistic, active, deep and meaningful, incorporating art and movement, covering the beliefs, stories, etc. of every culture, guiding the development of character, and generating curiosity and wonder. Students are taught to be independent, learning to bake their own bread, carve their own spoon and bowl, knit their own socks, sew their own clothes, make their own shelter. My kid would spend his free time roaming the woods, playing musical instruments, painting, doing embroidery, making his own toys. During the pandemic then moving to public school, the screens came in and he won't read or play music or do anything not on a screen. I commiserate with Mayim, as I've tried to limit screen time, etc and it is a constant losing battle. He has become so reactive, can't sleep, is failing school. When I take the phone away, he is completely isolated from his friends and has huge tantrums. The school has most work done on screens so I can't get him off the laptop although he uses it for social media, video games, etc. I hope Haidt's work helps build a huge movement and political action to change this techno-fascist dystopia. (Sorry to comment so much but I am passionate about this issue.)
Good choice. I spent a day shadowing a Waldorf teacher - they were the most relaxing 3 hours I've experienced in the last decade. They're doing it right. the question is, can our garbage world see their value and employ them?
@@doctorberkowitz What a great experience to have! Part of the problem with bringing a Waldorf approach to public schools is that it is expensive (small class sizes, quality materials, etc.) and part is that it relies on Steiner's anthroposophy, which many object to (lots of gnomes!). But at least we could be introducing the developmental stages of learning, no screens, and more handwork/outside play!
@@prof.jezebel I don't think gnomes are the real problem in today's world. I think we should be looking for ways to make the adult world more like a Waldorf education, and if that means more gnomes, so be it. In all seriousness, a connection to nature, slowing down, being quiet, giving choice, respecting difference, not frying our nervous system every waking moment, being kind to animals, appreciating sunshine on our face, respecting the people around us, living humbly and simply - these are all things adults need to learn. Be like little children.
@@doctorberkowitz Agree 100%
I worked at a Waldorf school and those kids ROCKED. Everybody would sing and play instruments in harmony on breaks. No smoking under the bleachers on cell phones at that school! They were a joy!
My kids are 26 and 24. I hadn't heard of free-range parenting until they were both much older, but that's basically how we raised our kids. We were lucky to live a neighborhood with like-minded parents, so most of the kids walked to school, played outside, roamed the neighborhood, rode their bikes, and made their own plans and rules for play. They weren't scheduled every second of the day and had plenty of time to get bored and make mistakes and solve those problems themselves or with their friends. But, they each had friends outside of our neighborhood that had every second planned by an adult, never walked to school or even the school bus stop alone, or did anything without constant direct supervision. When they all started getting phones, the difference between how my children and our neighborhood handled their phone usage and those other kids is like night and day. My kids used their phones to make plans, set alarms, and manage their calendars. Sure, they used some social media and looked at things that they weren't allowed, but not to the point that it was more than a passing curiosity. By the time they finished college, they both thought social media was just a waste of time. They both will tell me that their peers and especially their coworkers of their age struggle with leaving their phones behind or not checking multiple time during work. My oldest worked for a sleep away camp in college, and she saw how parents would freak out about not being able to text, video call, or check tracking apps all day long. They even had parents come take their kids out of camp mid-week because they thought they could hide a phone in their kids' stuff and track them and were angry that they got caught. Parents' anxiety might be worse than kids.
Such a GREAT (in caps) episode to this old soul once a child who used to play at the street since dawn, who never saw her mom watching tv alone, who grow up watching only BBC comedies, mother of a millenial MD doc whose 3-years-old boy , and the pendulum goes to the other extreme, has forbidden any screen, tv included.
During my kid’s infancy and teenage years we agreed on limits for everything, including sports, screens and playstation, among the entire group of parents of his close friends. All working parents. That was 25 years ago. It’s what I believe Jonathan Haidt proposes: a collective action. I think that it’s needed an agreement regarding phone-free schools, age of owning a smatphone and social nets worldwide. And if it’s not worldwide I fear it will be a full failure.
Such a FABULOUS episode. AGAIN!
Very appreciative of Haidt's work. Also: the amygdala shrinks from 12-17 years old but kids on social media's amygdalae GREW (Journal of Neuroscience Feb 2023). This explains a lot of the emotional disregulation in this generation. My university students since 2010 spend 40-60 hrs/wk on screens just amusing themselves, can't get assignments in because they are too anxious or depressed, don't read (skim), struggle with memory and concentration, can't follow simple instructions, over-generalize, no work ethic, are working at what used to be a grade 10 level, can't take constructive criticism. Corporatization of education means we have to "keep the numbers up" and "move them through" and "students are customers" so standards have fallen greatly. The dogma in teacher colleges circa 2000 was that only the teacher was responsible for outcomes, and public schools made it so there were no consequences for handing in work late, etc. I advocated for accommodations but they've been taken too far so I'm pressured to pass students who didn't attend or hand in work for months. It's: 1) screens, 2) corporatization of education, 3) no student accountability, 4) culture of narcissism, extremism and entitlement that does not support intellectual or emotional maturation. Lastly, I love my students, they are lovely people who support diversity, want to do well, and are suffering with loneliness as well as anxiety and depression. It's not their fault. We let the tech bro billionaires determine how we live.
Oh my god. Thank you for posting
I find validation in so much.of what you are saying! (Taught at college level beginning on 86-grad school- to '22). Max Weber talked about education being a product for consumption as early as the 19th century, but schools competing for student dollars are to blame for caving in to the pressures of "I paid you tuition money, you owe me a passing grade."
I just wrapped up a 34 year teaching career spanning elementary in my early years, and including high school and college in my latter years. Your post is concise and eloquent and I concur wholeheartedly with you.
@@LindaC616 Thank you so much! I will check out Weber. It's also the governmental calls for "accountability" so courses like Classical Studies, the Metaphysical Poets, etc. are cut due to low enrolment. We are losing whole bodies of knowledge in the Arts & Humanities.
@@gardenbun Thank you. I hope all of us educators can speak more freely about this. We get called "bad teachers" or "student-haters" if we try to address these issues. So glad you are onto new pastures!
Great show! I am a boomer and an amateur social anthropologist and noticed a generational decline in applied knowledge, critical thinking and imagination. The greatest challenge of this era is recognize technology as a tool and not as an alternative lifestyle.
OMG THANKYOU!!!! I am school psychologist and I've fought with admins and parents and the system of schools about phones in schools... etc. The things I've seen are infuriating because it's like I'm the only adult pushing back and trying to make boundaries for kids. I left schools because of the frustration. It's like watching an major crash happen in show motion. How can I help??? I don't know what to do
My daughter is 40, I shared this with her, thinking it was so powerful and thought provoking. When she sees the length of the podcast, she responded: “I’m not watching that it’s 2 hours long!” That’s a prime example of this huge problem, no one has enough “time” (attention span) to watch/listen/read long enough to even learn something helpful to be able to have a thoughtful conversation! Everything that’s discussed is in reference to something seen on IG or TikTok!
Why are you talking bad about your daughter on TH-cam? Maybe that’s why she doesn’t what to watch and she’s using time as an excuse. I wouldn’t watch anything my mom suggested if she talked about me like that online. Show some respect.
I’m 42 and have watched every second of this.
@@staceystrukel1917 lol. Holy cow THATS what you got out of that. Bless your heart. It is a comment on the hits of dopamine that short form content provides, which is a huge part of this podcast. (1:07:00)
I'm sure she'd watch a 2hr podcast on a topic she's interested in. You can't make a person be interested in the same things you are.
I’m so glad. But not everyone has fallen into the extremes of social media effects. Unfortunately many have. Direct comment to what was just discussed.
Parasocial effects is also huge. I stepped away from online communities I was very active in for years. I didn’t announce it and only on e person reached out to see if I was okay. The rest really didn’t care or notice. I was a mod on several of those channels.
Building a future society with children who give up screen time for healthier options of playing is a dream for many parents of this era. We are in a phase where so much around the world has changed between our childhood and adulthood. So, those methods our parents used to raise us, however good and effective they were, wouldn’t necessarily work for our children. We cannot say or ask our children to behave a certain way without them questioning us why. I believe having a close relationship with our kids and building a mutual trust since childhood will help establish a constant conversation between us and our children about many things they are exposed to. Thus, we may explain to them the consequences of being exposed to or addicted to gadgets or distractions that may deter them from identifying what they are passionate about and focusing on getting better in fields of their interests. I believe we must expose our kids to healthy activities like music, dance, sports, martial arts, gymnastics, riding/skating etc etc and let them figure out which activity engages them the most and encourage them to get better and better at that. Let not the gadgets distract the kids but let the physical activities we expose them to distract them from the gadgets. This is my opinion as I’m a stay at home mom and I’m able to push my daughter to find out what she likes. However for working parents, this may be a challenge. Whatever it may be, I agree with Jon that we must not expose the kids to what we don’t want them to get addicted to and we must try to expose them to as many fun filled activities there are that may be engaging and stimulating the body n mind. So many good opportunities out there, we need just to guide them in the way it is less likely for them to fall trap to self destructive ways of life.
Thank you Mayim for enabling such thought provoking podcasts, I love them and can’t get enough of. Love Mayim ❤ love your zeal!
Thank you for having the conversation. It’s all so true and sad.
Hi, Mayim! Good morning, sweetheart! And yes, this is true! Our childhood has been ripped away from us when we're young, or when we were younger and stuff! And it's horrible! Young people today are suffering from addiction and mental health problems and it's bad! You nailed it, Mayim, my girl!
You realize it's super creepy to call her sweetheart and my girl, right?
My father molested me and mother knew but did nothing. I left at legal age n never looked back. A phone might’ve been helpful to call a friend.
I have a toddler and I try to be the best example I can for her. This episode gave me a lot to think about. Thanks again, Dr. Mayim. You’re the best! 🥰
🙂 I was born in 72 & my sister in 75 so it made me smile to hear that you & your brother are the same ages. Love it. 💞
Great episode. Resonant. Children born in ‘02 & ‘05. Both impacted by depression & anxiety… phones and social media are certainly contributing factors. My ex husband and I did NOT want to get kids phones for 5th grade moving up into MS… with two years of anticipatory parental chatter at sports games and school concerts, we tried to voice our rationale to simmer in the discussions:costs, adult resources for support at school, didn’t need phones for emergencies but teachers & other adults… but in the end, the tide was overwhelmingly to get phones for graduation and the desire among kids was peaked. We didn’t want them to be the odd ones out socially and decided we would manage it. This was not so easy to do. Parental controls were not yet mainstream established tools, & by the time they were becoming accessible the technological expertise was well in favor of kids vs. our understanding and ability. I’m all for limits, controls and deferrals. I will look to see how I can facilitate locally. Ty for the thrust!
Very helpful so I can be a supportive grandmother and do a better job than I did as a parent.
Boy that’s true. We all did what we thought was a great idea didnt we? 🤦🏼♀️I’m totally to blame for my kids being glued to their phones! (I’m not saying anything negative towards you, didn’t want you to think that! lol. I was mostly agreeing and confessing my own guilt. lol)
We should be looking at how parenting and the development of babies is being impacted. I see parents giving the phone to very young babies. Motor skills are impacted, followed by play skills, language and behavior/regulation. Add stress, lack of space, poor food choices , and lack of resources and the results are devastating.
Really really good. Enlightening. I can't imagine how parents cope with kids, cell phones and social media. You want your kids to go out and play but then you run the risk of being accused of abuse and rumors abound that everything is so unsafe. I think parents compensate by becoming shuttle services. Shuttle the kids to soccer practice, dancing classes, swimming, etc. Social interactions between parent and child are limited to conversations in the car.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for having this conversation! This episode is really interesting and sooo true! I’m really grateful for your podcast, Mayim!🎧❤️
I limited my kids' screen time to a half hour of games and an hour of films/streaming. It completely backfired when they could make their own choices as adults and played hours and hours of games. They then made healthy choices as older adults with a wonderful balance of movement, etc. I am very proud of them.
This is another powerful and incredible episode. I have struggled with my kids being on their phones and social media so much. They are so anxious and can't figure out how to do things on their own, and part of me has no idea how to fix it now. The mental health aspects of all of this is difficult on both my kids and myself. I try to tell them to take mental health days and get off the screens and go outside, but it is difficult.
This guest makes ME anxious about what lies ahead for my 7 yr old! (Not a smart phone, that's for sure.) I do appreciate the actionable steps we can take to turn this around. I believe we will! Love to all. 🧠🤓❤
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
I wish they were readily available in my place.
Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac.
He's constantly talking about killing someone.
He's violent. Anyone reading this
Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Microdosing helped me get out of the pit of my worst depressive episode, a three year long episode, enough to start working on my mental health.
Can he send me SOME at the Phish show?! Where Cheap Trick just had opened for them?! But now Hoping Nobody Falls for this BS Garbage is about to take the stage, and it really just is NOT the same without some of that mushroom TOP that just will NOT STOP! Sorry I gotta go GTFOH is about to play my favorite song of all time, "I WISH Scam artists would just get the hell off TH-cam already ffs!" Thanks again, in advance! YOU POS's! LmMFaO!!! ;) :P :o)
I would dare say "they" have saved my life as well. I also feel like it is a specific consciousness. Perhaps even more than one ❤
I have been microdosing psilocybin for my ADHD/anxiety/major depression and have had some small noticeable improvements. My brother, however, did a macrodose and came out of it worse than before. He now has literal OCD, whereas before it was mostly just tendencies. He fixates on the same past events that he wishes he could’ve changed, he is convinced our mom and dad are both narcissists and he’s their scapegoat child. He lives with them still at 36 years old and gained full custody of his daughter after a long process in court and has frequent explosively angry outbursts where he will be absolutely contemptuous to our mom (who has her faults but she always been good to us) in front of his child (as he brings up how he used to “protect” my boys when me and my ex husband had bad arguments so they wouldn’t have to witness the anger) and yet he claims he had a miracle healing with that experience of macrodosing. He claims psilocybin has opened his mind up to the reality of having horrible parents who have taught him nothing and wouldn’t let him leave their house (that’s total BS) while then also saying how worthless he is that he lives there, has no job due to his horrible mental health and won’t be accountable for his poor decisions. Won’t seek therapy or any sort of medication since he’s “healed” now. He’s literally a bomb about to explode and get violent with whoever’s in the house at the time.
WOW sorry, long winded rant. But the moral of the story is, I believe that psychedelics can have serious negative consequences when mixed with some mental illnesses, whether known and mild, or lying dormant and triggered by the psychedelic, bringing on psychosis. So be careful y’all! ❤
I remember at 15 deciding to leave home and go to my sister's home in Rhode Island. I got on a bus, went to the bank which was in a different town where I had a checking account with my dad,took out a few hundred dollars went to the train station and got on a train from NJ to NYC. Went shopping on 5th Avenue by walking there then took a bus to Rhode Island. The bus stop was not far from her home.
My son who is disabled 32 is unable to make an appointment with the dusabled transport to be picked up at home to go shopping in town. I wind up having to do it, and it drives me nuts that he refuses to even try. As a kid I was impatient to grow up and leave home, he refuses to leave his room. I now insist he go to the grocery store, interact with the deli people and do the shopping by himself, I am now 70 and he needs to be able to function in society. Until he was in high school he used to go out and play without supervision, read books, rode his bicycle. Now he is glued to his PS5 and does not want to do anything even with me.
Awh man. I’m a psychologist who works with children and am very due to give birth to my first baby. When I say I will have no screens for my children as much as is humanly possible I mean it. I’ve seen too many parents cry to me about how much screens have impacted their child’s behaviour and development.
Now I just have to work on putting the phone down myself 😅
Great episode. The Waldorf is a good solid experience for kids. My dad was one of the first students at the original school in Stuttgart. He later, after WWII became a teacher there. I was raised in the Waldorf environment. My wife and I kept our kids off the beginning of screens but they are very capable in its use. My son is a network manager. The result for my dad was he was able to survive the war in good mental shape because of his Waldorf experience. I also co-founded two Waldorf schools in Washington State. So, Mayim keep up your excellent work.
So impressive! You and your father have made the world a better place with this work! As a former Waldorf parent, I am so grateful for the rich experience we had not just at school but in creating a Waldorf home. Waldorf helps us all focus on what has real value and meaning and gives us a vision of a beautiful world worth fighting for. I am so touched by your father's survival.
I love Breakdown ❤
The real problem when trying to put restrictions and limitations for our kid's technology is that parents/adults are addicted to their phones too. Very few adults will admit that. How can we guide our kids when we can't even help ourselves.
Thank you! Sharing ALL over♥️👏🏻
I'm your age Mayim, and I grew up mostly indoors playing with Legos lol. I went outside occasionally when the kids next door came and rang our doorbell, but mostly in the eighties already, we just went to each other's houses to play the first ever computer games on the Commodore 64 or later the NES. I already was glued to the screen I'm afraid. Now it's just pocket size. But I didn't mind talking to people, like for asking directions or anything practical. I had no problem with that. I just didn't feel a need to have friends apart from in school.
This is on the dot!!! We are all addicts now!! My daughter is almost 35. When she was a teen and all her friends were getting phones or were dressing inapproprietly for school, I put my foot down as a single mom and said " NO". She didn't get a phone till she was 16 and started going out with her friends. Since I was taxi-mom, we needed to be able to reach each other where ever we were, so I could pick her up. She had a flip top on which it took forever to send a text messege, but she could always call me. I felt she was safe having a phone. Cell phones have changed so much now, we have become slaves to them. I agree that action has to be taken collectively. We are making too many people rich at the expense of our liberty and sanity!!
I heard someone say that theres been this shift - older generations were out living their own lives, and now this generation is watching other people live their lives. So incredibly sad. I don’t have kids but wonder if that realization would help. Or that they’re being cerebrally manipulated by big corporations turning them into zombies. Or that their brain chemistries and neurotransmitters are being massively altered, setting them up for a lifetime of anxiety, depression and eventually chronic illness.
Feels impossible to roll this back.
Were older generations really living their own lives? How many women were in housewifr/SAHM situations that the genuinely didnt want to be in, but did so anyway to conform to society? How many neurodivergent? LGBT?
This episode brought to light my own addiction to technology - trying to keep up with Instagram, Facebook and in my case SoundCloud takes so much time in my daily spectrum - it is shocking how I easily ignore the effort involved - Thanks Mayim and Jonathan for my daily dose of cool brain juice❤
My partner of 20 years has chosen the phone , television and computer over being in a communicating and intimate relationship. He is in his 60's now and I figure if he wanted to be present he would. I only have instragram now and limit myself to messaging friends and family and viewing some feed. I enjoy a lot of outdoor life . Im so glad my son has chosen to keep social media and phones at a distance . I text with a few people but calling people keeps my reality in check. I do resent the fact that I have to have a phone with me at all times for various reasons. It really sucks!!!!!!!
I love what you're doing here, Mayim. Seriously, it's beautiful.
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Awesome episode, as a 22 year veteran teacher and mother who is Gen X, this made so much sense of what I saw with my own children growing up and the things that have changed in the years that I have been teaching. I'm excited to share it!
My almost 8 yr old daughter decided to goto her mom's house randomly today. She got lost a block around the corner. We found her but after almost 2 hours, plus police. Divorce plus lack of neighborhood makes free range impossible
Powerful. As an educator, schools must ban phones. Since Covid all we have heard about is the students’ mental health and more mental health personnel have been hired, but we must start from scratch with no phones during the school day - not in the halls, cafe or study halls. Parents must cooperate. Teachers spend so much time battling the phones in class that it takes away from instruction and learning. Furthermore, hs students have great difficulty working collaboratively on class projects or presentations. It use to be one kid that was so introverted and needed to work by themself, but now it’s so many that prefer to work alone. There is no learning or problem solving with theirs. It’s scary stuff.
I absolutely agree, kids do not need a phone at school. I can imagine if I had one at that age I would have not given my attention to the teacher.
I have a step grandchild that is just a mental mess. Her Mom gave her and iPhone at age 10. This kid is incredibly self-centered and manipulative. She has no friends, people avoid her and that was before she got a smart phone. Her social skills are non-existent. Due to this child acting out so negatively, she had to see a psych Doc. They took her phone away and the kid lost it and just blew up. There's been so much that has happened, There's very little out there for kids that are mentally ill in the way of resources. It's sad.
Maybe a way to make this child feel more welcome and part of a family, you could stop referring to them as a "step" whatever. They're your grandchild. Full stop! I say this from experience with my "step" grandmother. My mom married my dad when I was 4 and a half. I'd known him since I was 2, his family knew me since then also. When I was around 8 or 9, I was with my grandmother for a Saturday afternoon. I thought it was going to be fun. She just needed help setting up for her church ladies' meeting. I helped, because I thought I was being helpful. I was wrong! As the participants showed up they started to inquire as to who I was. My grandma acted like she didn't hear these ladies. Finally when push came to shove she introduced my to a crowd of about 50, over a PA system, she proclaims, "This child is my step granddaughter Lisa." I was confused as I didn't know what "step" meant, as she had never stepped on me.
Long story made shorter, that day is burned into my brain. Her words I still hear to this day, I'm 52 now.
Please choose your wording carefully when it involves children. Especially children that are already having issues. The biggest issue could be that this child doesn't feel valued or loved.
Just my two cents from my own experience.
@@rykersmimi2 cents?! More like a $10 lecture about the least significant part of their response.
First of all, don’t negatively speak of a child in your family on TH-cam. Second, the family dynamics are the problem NOT the phone. Parenting behaviors need to change and the child will change. I love the commment below yours where the person spoke about what they learned for them to change to help their family. Learn from them.
Does anyone in the family show her any compassion, or are they all like you?
@@jasong9492the way children are perceived and treated are very significant. It has much of a greater impact on mental health than technology ever could
The disconnect with Gen Z palpable. They always seem to have a deer in the headlights expression on there faces. I feel bad for the kids.
I was thinking when she said they made it ok, umm Ive been working for over 20 years for minimum wage and got nowhere. I am not okay.
I grew up in the late 70s early 80s. Friends hung out all summer, being bored together. If one of us had money, we'd find somewhere at the mall where we could all get something to eat. We had stupid 12 year old philosophical discussions. We learned to get along with people who were different than us. Those are real friendships.
Kids now don't form friendships. They think online people are friends. They also can't be bored for two seconds. Learning to be bored is a necessary adult skill.
Online friends ARE friends. You can’t dismiss things just because you don’t like or understand them.
@@CarolCurottoThey're not the kind of friends that will help you move or bail you out of jail. Those are real friends.
@@Mermare again , where are you getting this information from? Why wouldn’t they??
@@Mermare i think YOU may have had this experience with an online friend..
@@Mermareit depends on the level of connection you build with them. My partner made online friends years ago and now we go visit them in person yearly
I'm so pleased that you decided to own your PhD and added the Dr. ❤🎉
I have (for the most part) trusted my gut with raising my children now 7&10 (which included Beyond The Sling). My gut has told me for years that play is crucial to a childhood and normal development and that phones in childrens' hands is dangerous. Thank you for putting this out in the open and suggesting new books, websites, and finding like-minded parents.
When I got my first phone at the age of 14, which was the only one I let my parents pay for, I noticed in the first week that a part of me was disappearing. I wasn't as lighthearted anymore. I didn't think much of it at the time. Something like "hmm, so that's what it feels like to be a real teenager"
Stupid, I know.
I just didn't know any better. Today I sometimes question if my life would be better without a phone and if it would even work. But one step at a time.
There's always older phones without the screen. What makes it difficult for a lot people is the work expectation to be reachable all the time, to be able to login all the time.
@@lyndsaybrown8471 That's actually a problem I luckily don't have.
I'm European and my boss has to leave me alone outside of working hours. And if he still decides to contact me, I can ignore him. But during work I have to be quickly reachable by my colleagues, usually with messages. We sometimes work on different sides of the city. Then information has to be passed on quickly or objects have to be moved from one place to another. By tram! But anyway, I've heard about the working conditions in the USA and I have to say they are disturbing to me. And criminal if you go by European laws! So I get it, I think🤗 Correct me if I'm wrong.
I love to watch a film, read a physical book, write and listen to music. I love these podcasts and am not on FB, X or insta. The world has gone mad😮
This is a great episode. I feel more motivated to cut back on Facebook. That's the only platform I'm on. Honestly, I've been on it for about 16 years now, and I've been finding it not to be as fun as I once did. There are so many ads and other stuff in my newsfeed that I see less friend stuff. What I'm surprised to hear is Mayim saying she is off social bc I follow her on Facebook. There are multiple Reels of this episode, posts about the Israeli war in Gaza & even an advertisement for her & Jonathan doing an Instagram live. So I'm not sure I understand her comment that she's off social. Nonetheless, very scary what this is doing to kids. I'm grateful I grew up before all of this.
She might be off, but either Jonathan or someone else who they work with is posting.
This was a fabulous thought provoking conversation. Thank you!
This episode is SO important. Thank you for talking about this issue and, more importantly, what we can do to fix it.
Thank you for the John Green .... I am passing all of this on to my son for his children . I see first hand the disgusting fallout from parents dumping their children on social media. I also see the results of parents who stand firm on not introducing it to their children . Harsh words are necessary people . Don't ever assume the big companies have your best interest at heart. They are hiring people to figure out how to exploit you . Best of luck to all those precious minds. They are our future.
Wonderful episode. Thanks!
Loved this video. I have a 20 year old daughter who has been dating a 21 year old guy who spends an enormous amount of money on toys that would appeal to an 8 year old. He lives at home with his parents, his mother does his laundry and pays his auto insurance. Could this be an example of what the Internet has done? Or could this just be a developmental issue he has?
My kids are the same way, they almost refuse to ask anyone for anything. It is crazy how so much could be resolved with just asking.
People used to know that getting outside at sunrise and sunset was helpful to our body clocks and being outside after dinner time helped with their digestion and relaxation for sleep time. We used to know our neighbors and had them for support and companionship in our neighborhood. I still know the neighbors in my childhood neighborhood, and know no one in my own. I can see how times have changed this sense of community. In my neighborhood I NEVER see kids playing outside, and barely see adults as everyone hires out lawn work these days and we aren't forming acquaintances around our children's friendships.
Trying to grapple with this issue, my kids are 5 and 3. All they want is to play, but now my daughter is asking me more often if we can go play Zelda together. Which I sort of love too, because I get to play Zelda and she usually gets bored with how long it takes me to solve the puzzles and plays with toys while she watches. We also have a Zelda collector’s book that belongs to me, but explores all the game design, development and storylines of all the games that she likes to read. She also loves to read generally and is very art-oriented, she was voted best artist in her PreK class. It makes sense to me that visual narratives connect with her.
She starts kindergarten next month and can write all her letters, her own ten letter name (why did I do that to her? And my son has a silent letter in his, like damn, poor planning lol) and can read some sight words. She’s just so verbal which I love but I worry it will make her an early tech adopter. I’m trying to provide all the richness the world has to offer offline, though. She’s super into Medusa and mythology/fairies/magic generally, last night we read the 12 trials of Heracles in her Greek myths for kids book and it was like 15 pages of text 😂
I’m really hoping to keep my kids away from social media until they’re teens. I know it’s a losing battle, but they’re showing such good and productive qualities toward imagination and building, it’s just so difficult because of the TH-cam overlord. I ask them what they want to do and they ask if they can watch a video, like that is such an immediately satisfying media experience that doesn’t let them feel bored ever, and I don’t want that to impact their self-sufficiency or ability to create purpose for themselves.
My 5yo daughter says “I’m bored” while I’m washing dishes, I tell her “then find something to do” and she goes and makes herself a jeweled crown from the craft supplies. I put TH-cam on for them and do the dishes and hear nothing because they’re just staring at the tv, I really don’t want that for their future. I’m thinking smart watches when they get to an age where they’re harassing me for a phone. That seems more common for millenial parents (who are concerned about social media’s impact on a child’s health) to get for their young kids.
I also think the attitude on kids having phones in schools has changed. I graduated in 2005, almost all of my friends had phones. We could text and play snake, and THAT WAS NOT ALLOWED IN CLASS. We were not allowed to have phones out and teachers would take them until the end of class (or sometimes the end of the day) if you did.
It seems that doesn’t happen anymore, like every high schooler has a phone and they use them in school all day long. How do teachers put up with this when the capabilities for cheating on schoolwork and them being distracted by the phone, these are both SO MUCH HIGHER now than they were back when I wasn’t allowed to have one in class. I don’t understand why the tolerance has become higher as the device has become even more distracting and powerful?
Because parents cause a fit if they can’t reach their kids every minute of the day instantly
Parents are aligning with the children not the kids… they need instant access to their kids all hours of the day
@@jelemil I don’t envy teachers now, there seem to be a lot of parents that don’t want their kids to have any sort of consequence for their behavior and thus the kids don’t learn those “actions have consequences” lessons until adulthood when they’re not nearly as safe from the fallout. Kids need to learn “if I don’t do the work I will fail” before it’s their livelihood on the line. I try to encourage my kids to be hard workers who are thoughtful and empathetic toward others and toward problem solving, it’s just too early yet to know if it will stick. But I’m constantly thinking about my kids’ place in this world and the kind of adults I hope they will be. I want them to be kind and respectful and generous more than I want them to be smart. But I also want them to be smart 😂 it’s a tough balance, especially when “the rules” are so different between families.
@Schu0086 I just finished a year at a private high school. Previously, I had taught at the college level for over 20 years. At the college level, I would just give them a zero for their participation grade for the day, make a note, and if there were too many days like that, I would just send them an email. You can kick a college student out of class. You can't do that with high schoolers. So yes, last year, I would indeed take their phones at the beginning of the hour every hour. And I knew that there were some other instructors who did the same. I believe that the new head of school, who came last year, has read Jonathan's current book and is going to implement a no phones during the day at school policy
Mayim, I had the same problem with video games back in the late 90's/early 2000's and on. I thought the kids should have only an hour or two here and there on the gameboy/console games/computer games. My spouse fought me and fought me on this and the kids had way too much time on them. I even asked the pediatrician and he wouldn't back me up. Said if their grades were ok they can play. But how much? I could see my kids acting very different when I tried to get them to come to eat, go to bed, do a chore. They did not want to get off any device they were on and they became nasty about it. It was always a fight and was always on me to get them to transition to something else. I gave up on many things because I had to fight the kids, fight my spouse, fight the dr. It was too much. I feel like I failed them, but everyone was so unprepared back then.
Something needs to be done to give kids back a more normal childhood. Not with just social media, but also with gaming.
My sons had flip phones in middle and high school, no internet. Graduated high school in early 2010's. Full internet phones weren't until they were in college because we didn't want the expense, lol. None of us had them and then we all had them.
Younger son still has lots of anxiety and has depression. Even with not having to deal with social media. Maybe the world becoming smaller isn't really a good thing. People aren't just worried/anxious about their own country, now they see what's going on all over the world. More so than with just the TV.
Many governments have not been proactive with mental health, especially when it's due to social media/bullying. The US politicians are more worried about making money and keeping the richest even richer, than doing anything for mental health, homelessness, high rent, high food/necessity costs, etc for the middle class and poor.
I'm 25 and definitely addicted to my phone. I've been without work for 1.5 years due to burnout (nurse during covid). I'm now at a point where i desperately want to work and get among people. I don't even know what my local small holidays are and look like, because my mom never took part with us. Now I'm facing the problem of always fleeing stress by reaching for my phone and reading of playing games.
I've deleted almost all social media apps because I noticed how my view shifted to a hostile one towards men. But I cannot spend stime at home with nothing running in the background. The silence is torture to me, so now I'm trying to justify the screentime by saying I'm listening to podcasts. But I am still at a point where boredom actually scares me, I am absolutely terrified of being bored. If I'm asked to make some sort of plans I automatically tell think about how to not be bored on my way there etc.
Even now I'm sitting here fully dressed wanting to go for a walk only to notice my earbuds weren't charged and I'm just waiting for them. It's truly sad, I am sad for myself but I don't know how to change. Of course I enjoy reading a trashy webnovel for 10 hours but I know I am missing out on so much more I've never experienced due to mental health issues starting in my teenage years.
As a person without children this was all fascinating. And I find it helpful for myself and my patience as a licensed massage therapist and emotion tracing practitioner! I will pass on this info to many others. Thank you❤
Really enjoyed this episode, the information on different generations, how much tech has changed everything we do , and to today, where I envisioned my own 10 year old daughter in all of the different scenarios mentioned. Really fascinating stuff! Mayim brought up SO many important and relevant points as well ! Thank you for this conversation!
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Our kids are all in their ‘30’s. The day we got the internet I said we’ve let the devil into our home. Computer was in a common space so I could see what they were doing. Sometimes I hate being right.
When I was a teacher, I tried to remind my students that I didn't have a bell or flashing light, nor did I drop coins from the ceiling. In a classroom, a student has to request--or misbehave--to gain instant feedback, and it might be negative feedback when they are pushing boundaries, and because you only have one life, no one gets an instant reset. It feels almost Pavlovian to watch children drool for media feedback. What role does intrinsic reward play in all this where the task is the reward (reading for enjoyment, tidying up, chatting with friends)? Grades provide such a disconnected type of feedback and often seem arbitrary, wages are delayed gratification with another whole set of feedbacks and may never reflect the excellence of the accomplishment.
The problem is also bad teachers who punish genuine requests. Ive experienced it many times.
I apologize on behalf of teachers who were impatient or dismissing of your needs. I'm sorry that happened.
@@bjrockensock 🙏
Some parents are just as addicted and text their kids during school hours....the boundaries have been blurred and unfortunately there are parents need that constant sense of control.
One time, I was out and about, and runnin' a couple of errands in town, probably a couple years ago, and, I was in between phones and tbh I'd enjoyed my time without one and I wasn't in a terrible hurry to replace mine, as it were, but anyway. It had started getting late I could tell, and heading to the restroom, someone happened to be coming out just as I'd been about to walk IN. Stopping him, I politely asked, "Escuse me...I hate to bother you but do you have the time?" He was already scrolling through his phone so I know he did, and he told me the time, yes, BUT, I wouldn't say he happily did SO. The look he gave me was like I'd gotten him to stop, so, I could tell him how much I love to annoy people when I practice playing bagpipes or maybe the accordion badly on purpose. Or, the way he acted relaying the TIME TO ME, by movin' his eyes vertically momentarily, simply to read it from off of his screen, you would almost have thought, that I'd asked him if I could borrow his watch indefinitely, not just what time it'd gotten to BE! SHEESH!! LmMFaO!!! ;) :P :o)
The Awesomeness that Is Continues! 👊😎✊🍁🍁
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I read this book recently and LOVED it. Jonathan is spot on.
Thank you so much for this interesting episode with Jonathan Haidt regarding childhood and technology. I enjoy a whole lot listening to the various and interesting conversations that happen on this podcast. This is a really great channel beautiful Mayim! ❤
You guys are my heroes ❤ I have been thinking why authorities don’t want to do anything about it, now this conversation gives me a hope ❤
We need to talk about how screens harm ADULTS. Everyone has mush brain and doesn't do anything but scroll or watch TV with their free time these days. Also, there are so many retired folks absolutely addicted to Facebook, Twitter, news programs, and all that. They're also really gullible. People who didn't grow up with the internet have no defenses against it.
This was an exceptional episode. It gives me hope for future generations in changing the ones now.
It is challenging to raise a child with parents who have opposing perspectives on the purchase of a smartphone, when to use it, how to use it, social media etc. Good cop/bad cop scenario where the child ends up confused by the power struggle and difference in value systems. 🤷♀️🤦♀️.
I’m happy to see that schools are being proactive in establishing boundaries over phone use. It establishes priorities and respect around education in all forms.
Would love for you to have Jennifer Love Hewitt on the podcast. 😊
I just wrapped up this podcast and enjoyed the many excellent points therein, particularly the notion of exploitation of younger teens. A colleague of mine experienced the horror of one of their early-teens kids being baited into a "felonious photographic exploitation of a minor" situation (because you can't say k***** p*** here). While I can acknowledge now that such crimes existed when I was their age, some 30-odd years ago, it never even occurred to me at the time then that such a risk existed... and this was when I learned that teenage pregnancy wasn't just an existential after school special. (Not mine, fortunately, but I remember the "No, this actually can and does happen." realization quite clearly.)
Also, I just noticed the back catalogue of your podcasts and the many excellent guests therein. Prepare for significant media consumption from me and the revenue thereof (ironic though the situation may be. Big fan!) ❤
I am not a parent and I have wondered how schools deal with having phones everywhere. I completely agree with banning phones in school, however, I have a thought that perhaps mostly Americans might have: What about having a phone in case of emergency, G-d forbid, for the especially American potential crisis of a school shooting? Children have used their phones during these active shooting crises to call for help and to let their parents know where they are and what is happening. It is absolutely terrible that this is where my mind goes, and I just wonder if kids now need to have their phones in school in case of real emergencies?
My Daughter’s 4 children were not allowed a phone until age 13. They are not attached to their phones they spent a lot of family time together.
My frustration is that nobody will read a paragraph anymore. Every online news story is one sentence with two hard returns and then a sentence. Any social media post has to be under 100 words with two hard returns between each sentence. If you chose to open and read the content and then you are too distracted to read the content, what is wrong with us? People do read books. I read two books a week. I read a 400 page book last week (The WEIRDest People in the World). For context I am Gen X with no kids.
I just saw something last night on one of the letter stations-CBS maybe? It was called Generation Swipe…one of the teens said she and her friends communicate through snap chat and then when they are together, they don’t have anything to say bc it’s all been communicated through the app.
That emphasizes Haidt’s point.
I felt the same way when cell phones became affordable.
I loved talking on the phone at night withy friends and it went away within months bc we were talking at various points all day 😢
29:22 My 16 year old now has a flip phone after not having a phone for over a year. They got lost within the responsibility of having all the info at their disposal and couldn’t handle it properly so we intervened and took that responsibility away.
My kid is happier, more engaged, kinder, and does sit and doom scroll and compare to others. I just want to encourage others that it’s not too late to help if your kid isn’t prepared or able to handle those responsibilities. They can text but it’s a deterrent for sure.
I learned so much from this. Thank you. And just a quick think Jonathan said that crystalized for me. I do watch the sweet animal short videos and if I do it too long you're exactly right it turns into something gross or puts me in sympathetic rather than parasympathetic. It gelled that that's on purpose.
This epi hit home so hard. I have been advertising this book by word of mouth for Anyone who will listen.
My 15 yo will not ask Anyone Anything. Granted he is ADD, but not a teacher, not a friend, not a cust service agent. He'd rather not know, he would rather fight with me, anything other than 'finding out' using language. This topic is So Relevant. I need conversations on how to reduce phone use without my child trying to kill me. How will this generation cope let alone thrive????
My son has had a phone since 13. And I truly regret it. Wish i would have waited. I try to control screen time, but its always a world ending fight. What are some ideas to limit or approaches to limit his screen time?
When I was pregnant or very early in motherhood, I watched an episode with Lisa Ling on screen addiction. Learned that major executives and creators wouldn't let their kids near an iPad or apps they work for. I work here and my kid will not have access to the things other kids have, was the moment I decided on a few things with screens. Now I'm not saying I'm completely screen free with my kid but definitely won't allow youtube and no hand held devices.. now she goes to a Waldorf school and will continue in a montessori school this school year and will stay there until high school.. no screens no phones in school and if that's the case I will follow the no phone until high school..
This video is so important share, its information everyone should know, thank you.
Let's take back our intention! ❤ Great conversation!
I’ve been to Joe Rogan’s The Mothership comedy club once, & I love that they take our phones & don’t return them until after the show is over. It really makes for a great experience!
I wish the students had felt that way at the private high school I taught at last year😅
2012 was def a tipping point. 2012-2016 feels like a huge growth spurt to the point where someone who said let's go back to the past was successful as a cult leader.
What are you talking about?
This episode is so relevant. So needed. Thank you for this valuable message to be better stewards of the next generation. We see the problem, now let's fix it!! ❤
I excited that our 6-year-old grandson is NOT interested in TV. We occasionally go to a movie in a theater (An event)! His 2-year old sister is not aware of screens. The kids are both in bed before their parents watch a movie, or stream something!
Summer nights playing outside till dark with the front porches dotted with parents on lawn chairs. Good memories. Having lived thru the 60s to now, and considering tech and personal freedoms, I think the 70s were the last decade we were as free as we ever will be. Like, go to the bar when you were 18 is insane in the USA now. In high school we could go to Planned Parenthood no questions asked and get birth control. In that aspect society has become infantilized. The ability to take our own responsibility has been removed. Kids used to pack up the beater and drive off to college and be happy about it.
I tried to get a flip phone, my child figured out how to get TH-cam on it and had WiFi capabilities.
8th graders or younger now have school chrome-books or tablets or laptops provided by schools.
They totally find ways to get on to social media even when the school supposedly has security on the computers or systems.
So just an fyi in case you withhold the phone. That may not even be needed any longer when they have a school issued laptop thing.
Thanks guys, for this episode! It gives SO much insight into my 20 year old's brain! We do impose limits on her, but I have a much better understanding of her "anti social " behavior.
She’s an adult at 20 years old & has to make her own decisions.
@carriemarie7535 She's a college student with ADHD who lives with us, and we have rules about screen time NOT taking precedence over family time. There's a lot more to the story, but it's really no one's business, thanks for your concern...
Nurture, Nature and Network!
At what point do algorithms start shaping who a child ( or even an adult really) becomes? Machines are tailoring the visibility of information and entertainment based on what it perceives we like.
At least, that's how it starts!
Eventually (and quickly) children are in a bubble of content decided by the algo.
It's showing what it thinks they would like and then they consume it. So are any of us truly able to say that we are who we are because of nurture and Nature any more? I think we need to add Network!
Interesting humans are a mixed bag, full of contradictions, informed by meeting people that are DIFFERENT than ourselves and developing empathy and tolerance for that.If you have a machine only showing you more of the same or related items, it's no wonder we are living through one of the most divided times in history!
How much of who we are today is because of what our algorithms have decided we would find interesting?
This is what scares me and I'd love Jonathan to write a book focused on this particular outcome of living in modern society!
It plays with my polarities hahaha Gives me motivation and, at the same time, some thinking about "do I really wanna do that"... great conversation!! a lot to do so i can share about with people I care and/or work with!
I like to broadcast or stream child appropriate videos from TH-cam kids to my TV in my living room by using a Roku or Amazon device. I have more control of what they are watching.
The not asking questions piece that totally answers my puzzlement with young people that are clerks. If there's a little problem I give them a suggestion like a coffee bar running out of cream. I couldn't convince the young clerk that the owner would appreciate it if he pulled a bottle of cream out of stock so the people would buy more coffee. In the long run it's more money. He could not grasp that and that is a common experience I have I can't think themselves out of a little problem
The thing you also made us realize is that we as a society have a lot of expectations / tighter rules as parents. So it can feel impossible. People always say kids need to play outside, but also that if you aren’t watching your kids like a hawk and if anything would happen - child services could be involved for neglect. Parents in the 90s and earlier did not watch their kids like a hawk. So how do you mesh that world ideas with today’s world expectations.
Car driving down our street called police when my 7 year old was standing outside his own house without supervision. Police came, actually took my information as I fretted that I actually might have done something wrong. I knew where he was, and that damn car just kept driving after they screamed to him to go home. Changed the way I did things, who needs the police called on them??
21:40 I think it just depends on where you are, I played outside well past 2000’s I was born in 90
I would love to hear a perspective about screen time and Educational Technology in schools. Does the use of EdTech in schools feed into the sedentary childhood (elementary school and middle school years)?
I’ve watched this twice. Thank you for covering this topic it came at the perfect moment for me. 🫶🏻🫶🏻
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I love everything you guys do ❤