I never thought about it before but it's kind of weird that Crocomire doesn't count as a "boss" (i.e., he doesn't have a statue in the room before Turian). He gets boss music when you fight him, he guards an essential item and he gets the most cinematic death in the game, but he doesn't get the title of "boss." #justiceforcrocomire
It’s because Croc is not the main boss of Norfair (which is Ridley), he is just a mini boss. There are other mini bosses, including ones that are intended to guard a critical progression item (e.g. Torizo, Spore Spawn). Croc is just probably the most memorable one.
@SuperNinja's Personal Channel you come back there because only ridley is remaining and you can see ridley face in that lava pool. But yeah you are right actually.
Super Metroid's sequence breaking is how you do it right, imo. You might not be able to fight bosses in any order you want if you play the game normally, but that's a good thing because it rewards skilled players for figuring out how to break the sequence. If there's no sequence to break, it wouldn't feel rewarding to fight the bosses in any order you want.
@@felipetartas5434 well that's not why it isn't rewarding. The problem is that those bosses aren't very hard, look all the same, aren't very well designed and don't really give that much(other than breaking the game with revali's gale, which is not a good thing). If you were supposed to beat them in a specific order sequence breaking(if it were possible) wouldn't actually make beating them more rewarding.
I think to some degree it is an inherent problem with that dynamic (non-linear RPGs with significant power growth) rather than DS1 being rushed. For example, DS2 has a similar issue. Symphony of the Night also has it, to a much bigger degree. If you are supposed to be able to fight bosses in any order, yet at the same time beating ones makes you significantly stronger, it follows that subsequent boss each will tend to become less, rather than more challenging.
@@11th_defender51 I found them all reasonably difficult, extremely distinct, and perfectly designed around the premise of their fight and the Divine Beast you meet them in.
@@Paulito-ym4qc Metroids (the iconic jellyfish creatures the series is named after) are weak to the cold; they need frozen by the ice beam before being vulnerable to missiles.
@@Paulito-ym4qc she does get frozen later tho, or more clearly can be, due to something that happens in the sequel Metroid Fusion (which I will not say since you might not have played it considering your reply).
Nice use of the NES mother brain over the ruined Super footage! I did something similar myself, and frankly it's the best way to show it. I can see why some people can get frustrated with Super, I think it's mostly to do with nostalgia, or lack thereof, but as you've shown, a metroidvania isn't just about open ended exploration. I can see a lot of game devs using this video from now on!
Agreed! Also, Dan - I think your video was the first time I realized you pass Mother Brain's room at the beginning of Super Metroid. Thank you for blowing my mind with that.
Mark Brown play Darkwood on steam and do a gamers tool kit on it. Please. Although its top down Horror it includes all of the elements you describe for Dark Souls and Metroid
So I was thinking the same thing and as such. I decided to fire up my copies of Super Metroid and see because I remembered just that. The idle demo scenes show you different techniques and attacks that you can do throughout the game. For Science, lol. I took both versions of the game. Japanese and North American that I have and left them running to watch all the demo scenes. Both games showed off various scenes including: IBJ (Infinite Bomb Jumping also the advanced jumping into an IBJ), Shine Sparking in different directions (Vertical, Diagonal, Horizontal), Using the grapple beam and the blocks on which you use it on. (Including different actions on how to move while grappled) How to and when to Crystal Flash!!! How to use alternative charge beam combo attacks with your Power Bombs. What happens if you shoot and kill the Fireflea's in a dark room. Shows you how to defeat Gadora's with missiles. Shows the Golden Statues and what happens after you kill a boss, and more. Just letting the game go idle at the title screen allows you to see all manner of techniques, attacks, and special awareness that you might not see or catch on your initial play through. Also @WizardofWestmarch I you might be correct here. I took the Japanese cart and deleted all the saves down to a base game. The Japanese cart showed off different cut-scenes. However this may be slight differences between the regions and/or 'Rev.' changes to the carts. I am not willing to delete my original first time full clear save from decades ago on my North American cart. :/
@@alecfrancis47 In my opinion, Prime is linear then decides to not tell you where to go, and the only way I found where I should be in game was with the hints they gave you. Then it becomes linear again until you're free to search for Chozo artifacts. I prefered Super Metroid that didn't need hints to progress and where you almost progress constantly. I've still enjoyed Prime, but not as much as Super.
THANK YOU, I've been saying that for a while now. he makes great videos with a really high quality, but his complaining about linearity and how it makes something bad (oh and "nobody cares about story in video games") is just.. come on man. you've got to be better than that if you want to appeal to the masses
Well, Prime IS linear, but with extreme amounts of backtracking sometimes. One time the game straight up tricks you to go to a giant underwater part, where you can't actually proceed. And when you realize that, you have to slowly climb back up, while hardly seeing anything. I mean, still Prime is one of my favourite games, but when I recently replayed it, it made me feel like the game is just artifically made much much longer than it would've been.
The barriers that form behind you also sort of add to the sense of you becoming 'lost', since they constantly push you into unfamiliar territory--> worth nothing is that, immediately after the blue shutter, you stumble upon the 'Brinstar Red Soil' portion of the zone, with entirely different visuals and music, and from there, stumble into Norfair and Kraid's lair, complete with a sneak-peak of Maridia. You're introduced to three or four entirely new areas all at once, and simultaneously shut out of everything before that, for what can be a good hour or two of exploration, at least, finding the High Jump, Varia Suit, Ice and Wave Beams, before you can pull yourself back up to the familiar surface of Crateria by acquiring the power bombs.
Best thing about having a video game like this was having it in a house without internet. No cheating, all the most awarding when you made discoveries without assistance. What an excellent game.
For the record, Super Metroid DOES teach about Bomb Jumping. After clearing the game, a new demo video appears after the title screen. th-cam.com/video/QsIBLOx12KU/w-d-xo.htmlm20s This demo demonstrates horizontal Shinesparking, Bomb Jumping, Charge Beam Combos, and the Crystal Flash. The other demos show diagonal Shinesparking, the Spin Jump Attack, and other hints for new players. In this way the game is built for multiple, unique playthroughs.
@@voltaireentertainment Many games secretly auto-save certain things separately from your visible "save file". As a clearer example, after beating _Metroid: Zero Mission_ your save file gets marked with a Metroid icon on the menu to indicate game cleared, and your map screen now includes a collectibles list and total playtime.
@@voltaireentertainment Yeah, games of the era didn't typically reset to the title screen automatically, but that doesn't mean they can't still record the game being beaten. For comparison, you start Super Metroid at Ceres space station, right? But after touching down on Zebes your ship is _already_ marked as the current save point. (That was an autosave!)
I definitely think bomb jumping was intentional. There is a debate whether mock balling is intentional, but I'm not too sure. Anyway, super metroid is my favourite game ever, and this is a great video on it!!
100% bomb jumping is intentional. There's no way QA did not catch this. Just mashing the bomb button over and over you can get 4-5 jumps in the air if you're good and lucky. This falls under advacned tactics, but really every kid in the world found out you could do bomb jumping early when messing with the bomb power up. my friends and I alone are a testament to that.
One of the demos for Super Metroid actually shows Samus doing an infinite bomb jump outside in Crateria. Said demo shows it alongside the Shine Spark and a Crystal Flash, implying these are all advanced special techniques that were put into the game. If Infinite Bomb Jumping wasn't intended initially it was officially adopted at some point in production considering Nintendo themselves highlighted it.
What Omnicrom and Justin White said is true, here is a video showing the title screen demos. Infinite bomb jump is at 4:52 and only gets shown after you beat the game. th-cam.com/video/QsIBLOx12KU/w-d-xo.html
pretty sure it was intentional at this point, since many people used bomb jumping in the first Metroid. I guess the question is, was it intentional in the original Metroid?
I will always remember playing this game and falling into a room with no way out only to notice that the little animals are trying to teach me how to get out, i remember being soo impressed about how cool that samus is able to do theses maneuver and only missing the right techniques to do so, also there was no text or 3h cutscene to teach you all of this, what an amazing game!
I've got a point of insight on your comment about sequence-breaking not always being something included in more indie metroidvanias. Years ago when I was more active in the Super Metroid romhacking communities, we used to have discussions and arguments about how to add sequence-breaks to our romhacks. One notable takeaway I remember was the argument that sequence-breaking is not "sequence-breaking" if the developers *intended* for the breaks to happen. So using Super Metroid as the example, items you can access with walljumps and shinesparks wouldn't count as a sequence-break since the developers teach you about them, aka they knew about them, but items you can get with infinite bomb jumps or mockballs would be considered sequence-breaks because it's assumed the devs didn't know about them. (Edit: I forgot that infinite bomb jumps were in fact shown in the title screen demos. A better comparison of unintended mechanics would be mockball and backwards green gate glitching, or suitless Maridia.) That's why at the time even though Zero Mission was mostly linear but it was absolutely full of ways to break the game's sequence and get nearly every item out of order, it wasn't considered a proper game to "sequence-break" since all of those alternate routes were added by the developers. In parallel, Metroid Prime is also a mostly linear game. but you can really break the sequence of using all sorts of tricks that weren't intended by the developers so people considered it a true sequence-breaking paradise, more so after new versions of the game came out with the tricks we used in the original versions fixed or patched out. So for us, we'd have discussions about if we were really adding sequence-breaks to our hacks if we were leaving behind routes for the players to find and break sequence, like how Zero Mission did it. Some hacks ended up with developer intended routes, others had naturally discovered breaks. Some hack makers even patched out sequence-breaks that they didn't intend sometimes for reasons of better game design and sometimes for...ego reason? Romhacking gets weird. For a while hacks were more linear but in recent years I think a lot of people are using a more open level design like how you've described the 2nd half of Super Metroid because whether or not sequence-breaks are intended, the game is usually more fun to play when you can stumble onto the right path out of a few possible ones. Now all we have to do is learn how to avoid overwhelming the player with options at any given time. I wonder if some of this "intended" vs "unintended" sequence-breaking debate made its way into the minds of some recent indie Metroidvania developers. Might explain a few games and how they choose to represent the idea of sequence-breaking in a genre that loves the concept.
Hmm. I feel that "only unintended" counting for sequence breaking is an idea that really just hurts design. Many mechanics are unintentional originally, but turn out to be really good and are then kept, such as a certain mechanic in Street Fighter. We now know about sequence breaking, and can incorporate it intentionally, to ensure sequence breaking actually turns out interesting.
One important thing to note is that Infinite Bomb Jumps were intended by the SM devs, as there's a title screen sequence showing the technique, along with a few other things like beam combos and the crystal flash.
I personally think that sequence breaks are still sequence breaks even if intended. As long as there is a clear "standard" path that players are expected to take unless deliberately going out of their way to avoid doing, than any deviation from it is a sequence break in my eyes. This relates to why I much prefer Zero Mission's sequence breaks to Prime's, as they're reasonably accessible without being too easy, while sequence breaking in Prime is often ridiculously hard. I only sequence break in Prime at all because I play through it quite often, and even then it's mostly just early space jump and a few resultant shortcuts, along with a handful of individual items to minimize backtracking. It's just not suitable for sequence breaking without so much dedication that the game loses its original fun.
I think Sequence Breaks are definitely something you can define even when placed with developer intention. Using your Zero Mission example, there are a lot of alternate paths through the game but there's clearly a designed sequence of events that the game wishes for you to follow using the chozo statues and the main progression of powerups, and the alternate paths, even if placed by the developers, are still a way of breaking the sequence. There's definitely a distinction to be made between glitched ones and developer ones but I think they still both qualify.
Pwrplus5 I agree. Taking an alternate path is only not a sequence break when there isn't a well-defined sequence to begin with. Metroid 1, for example.
I’m lost and getting frustrated playing this game. I’ll keep going. Edit: I finished the game thanks to your hint for ice beam. It’s amazing that the very game created an entire genre still stands so triumphantly. I’m now ready for Dread!!
I got frustrated as well but once you get used to how the game works its pretty good. You just need to read its little hints and mark the spots you couldn't access before you got your new powerup. The game still uses a lot of fake blocks which obstruct your progress but they're not that hard to find
I love the talk around 9:20. The game could've just easily show you things you can do, then show you things you couldn't have done without the things it showed first, resulting in a totally linear experience. By swapping doable things with undoable things, it makes you feel like you worked for your progress and earned the way forward. It also makes you feel smart for figuring all of this out. So cool! Man, awesome video! Thanks for this series and all the great stuff!
Mark, would you consider doing a video on games that give a genre a completely new twist, while still staying totally true to those genres? It could be neat to hear you talk about how a game without bullets can be a fun on-rails shooter (Pokémon Snap) or 3rd person shooter (Splatoon). How far can you deviate from the norm without making a new genre entirely? (please like if this is something you'd be interesting in)
Don't forget accidentally falling in the shine spark tutorial and saving down there. Keeping you stuck until you learn the shine spark, or reset your game.
@@WaldoIsahider I don't know. Watching the bird do it makes it pretty clear. Run, run, run, run, stop-crouch, jump. Did you know you can Shinespark horizontally and diagonally upward, for a total of 5 directions, and pull off any of those from mid-air?
Interestingly, bomb jumping is actually only taught to you in this game, and it teaches you outside of actual gameplay hints like the animals. Wait at the title screen to see the technique demoed. Dear goodness, VR Super Metroid would be wonderful. Although every jump would make you need to put down your controller for a few min. while your equilibrium recovers.
what a nice thing to wake up to! I've been playing through the later Castlevania games recently and boy howdy, there's a massive difference in world design between something like SotN and Harmony of Dissonance. people think Metroidvania worlds are all the same, but not really at all. I'd love to see some CV Boss Keys episodes btw. EDIT: but then I also posted this comment before finishing the video so WOO looking forward to next time.
Okay, this video is in J. Kenji's cooking equipment review playlist and I was sent here after watching a 30 minute video about his kitchen pots. Gotta say i love the unexpected change.
Something else that’s genius about SM is the Attract Mode videos if you leave the title screen idle for a few seconds. They show off so many things that teach the player the game mechanics such as running and what certain items do. There’s even a hidden one you unlock after finishing the game that shows off things like Infinite Bomb Jumping and The Crystal Flash.
"The entrance to Ridley's lair is a bit weird actually, so for one it's got three locks in a row" Makes sense story wise since by the time of Super he's fought against Samus and died at least three or four times before.
When the game was made, he only fought her twice (Metroid 1, and the Ceres part of Super), and he beat her at Ceres. Prime and the remakes were not considered/even in development at this time, so that story tidbit is fuzzy at best due to retcons.
You could argue that there are dozens of locks, but the three standout ones are Kraid, Phantoon, and Draygon. It’s intriguing to think how Ridley is the last major obstacle shielding Mother Brain (as everything in Zebes functions), but Ridley is also the first enemy exposed in the game. The subtle storytelling of the entire game suggests to me that Ridley never expected to run into Samus at Ceres.
@@seedofwonder Which has unfortunately been retconned thanks to Samus Returns, as it establishes that the reason Ridley even went to Ceres in the first place was because he was following Samus taking the baby Metroid there.
That mention of hidden advanced movement techniques you mentioned at the end gets me thinking that you might be interested in a game called Rabi-Ribi. it is a metroidvania with bullet hell bosses that is super anime and is fairly fun on its own even with its rather... unremarkable story. What makes it so addicting though is the plethora of speedrunning and sequence breaking techniques. These are also encouraged in game with secrets and achievements and the like. For example you can wall jump right from the start without the power up by combining two hidden techs, the reverse wall kick and the drop kick allowing you to wall jump twice. This combo allows you to pick up power-ups way out of order, skip bosses and zones, and most fun of all do the 0% run were you dont pick up a single item at all including your basic melee attack. the only things you get are your ranged attack (in the form of a fairy) and one or two main plot related items, so without power ups the game becomes a puzzle on how to get around with the hidden techs and all the boss fights change due to your lack of a melee attack option. Even if you dont find the game to your tastes i still think its something worth checking out. Anyway great video as always i can never get enough of video game design talk.
Glad to see someone else who loves Rabi-Ribi! I think it's also worth mentioning that not only can you skip a lot of upgrades (though it's worth mentioning that you either must do EXACTLY 0% or grab a few of them to be able to complete the game--the very late areas require certain items unless the game actually detects a 0% run), but you can grab upgrades in unusual ways, skip certain bosses (though you need to fight them later), use "non-mobility" attacks like Bunny Whirl and Bunny Strike for mobility in some situations, and in general complete most of the game in roughly whatever order you'd like. You may be struggling against the difficulty curve to do it, but you're free to try. The game also alters the attacks of many bosses based on the items you have. The most common difference is that you won't see tall columns of bullets that you aren't capable of jumping over.
Serious this is the best Level design channel for a mile, i read tons of game design books, and i will say that only here i feel like a improved after each video
As usual, not only this analysis is super-well made, but actually useful for game devs. Thanks and keep up the good work. This stuff is particularly important as level design is a pretty large part of what makes a game good in my opinion, and yet often seems to have been let aside in the developement process.
Mark. I have to say that bomb jumping was something that I learned by myself. When confronted with an obstacle that I couldn't overcome or just by screwing around and experimenting with what the game gave me it was just way to easy to learn how to do that. The moment I learned how to wall jump was also without getting to the room with the animals, as Samus' pose changes when you press the opposite direction of the wall you are against. So the game gives you hints on how to progress but also on how to use the basic tools that it gives you. Speed jumping is not the case, though.
This is easily my favorite video series on TH-cam. The work you put into these videos continues to impress me, and you’re always able to cover so much information about these games but in a clear and to the point way.
The room at 14:00 was the only time I have ever in my life needed to look up a walkthrough for a video game. When I had gone to this point, it was drilled into my head not to jump in the lava. The game assumes that after you get an item far away that doesn't tell you you can go in lava, your first reaction will be to jump into lava. Even if you figure out the gravity suit makes you immune to the warm lava, you likely would have forgotten about this room, or tried getting up but not being able to get high enough.
Late reply but I recently did my very first super Metroid playthrough. It was hard-wired into my brain that lava=bad too until I got the X-Ray visor. It showed the lava as “invisible” and that’s how I knew I could jump in it. It wasn’t until after I beat the game that I learned that it does the whole “invisible” thing even before you get the gravity suit.
@@cosmiclikesminecraft and even mockball isn't sequence breaking. It is however used TO sequence break, much like wall jumping, bomb jumping and shine sparking are.
I gotta say Mark, I love your videos but I think you really undersold how cool the sequence breaking aspect of super Metroid is. The little critters that teach you to wall jump and shine spark can really change the way you interact with the game world which organically leads you to do something I think other games don’t really do which is challenge the environment that the developers give you. The world is filled with very simple door and lock puzzles that with sequence breaking instead become challenges or puzzles to an experienced player. Many of the power ups can be obtained without the “key” so to speak but instead with Samus’ innate abilities and it is incredibly satisfying when you get a power up in a way you weren’t “intended” to. But it is really cool how the designers programmed this into their game, purposefully allowing you to “break” the game and go in a different order. And that I think is very cool.
I'm actually playing through this game again right now. I remember getting it as a kid in 1994 at Best Buy and having the box, I still have a photo of me with it as a child with the game in the box being so proud. It is still one of my favorite games of all time to this day.
The game's opening demos also have a lot of teaching material in them too. Others have pointed out how the final demo, which unlocks after you've beaten the game, reveals easily-missed and potentially sequence-breaking tricks such as the infinite bomb jump; but the demos the game starts with also provide extra context for things that some players could get stumped by or not notice. It's pretty methodical, starting with basics like "doors will open if shot" and "pink doors will open if you select missiles" (because remember, it wasn't until Prime and Fusion that the games started explaining in text how to use items), proceeding through tips like "this is the part you shoot to open this metal barrier" and "don't try to reach that stone Ridley head by swimming through the lava and ice beam climbing your way up or something; there are going to be items at some point that let you do it safely", and finishing with showing how that big gold statue is eventually going to do something. It's mostly stuff that experienced video game players will probably figure out naturally just by fiddling, but it provides one more safety net for anyone who might be stumped in an era before you could just Google things.
It’s hard to think that this game, being so old, has yet to be topped in execution. Sure there’s games that are better in specific aspects, but the overall quality is greater than anything that has been released since.
I think Hollow Knight is greater in execution, its better in world design as it is even less linear than Super Metroid and specially its better in mobility, since Samus in SM moves like a drunken whale. In that regard, the game has aged poorly. BUT, its true that when it came out, SM was far more original and creative. It's a genre-defining game for a reason.
Hollow Knight is more non-linear and has more quantity of content than SM (neither of which I think are inherently good), but it's not as intricate. Mark's comment here about almost every room being visually distinct rings true (which is also something true of the geometry of those rooms); HK is more repetitive, with most rooms in each zone being very visually similar and often lacking such a strong sense of distinctiveness and purpose. Having a very low frequency of new abilities after the wall jump further exacerbates this sense of repetitiveness. In terms game feel, HK has less indirection than SM but I don't think this is necessarily a good thing or a bad thing (I could take either one of them, but e.g. I prefer Sonic 3 which has more indirection than SM over either of them).
I love Hollow Knight but one thing Metroid has over it imo is that it's more... cohesive? It's a bit hard to explain but with almost every power up in SM, certainly every required power up, it feels like a really substantial addition to your arsenal that doesnt just affect your method of exploring Zebes, opening up new paths and simplifying traversal, but also impacts your combat ability. Every gameplay aspect feels interwoven in Samus, who by the end of the game is destroying enemies simply by crashing into them with the Screw Attack/Space Jump (also the fastest method of traversal). HK is by no means bad in this regard but I think SM still does it better than any of its imitators. The sequence breaking is also better in SM, which I think is important in a "metroidvania", and Samus's moveset at the beginning of the game also feels better and less incomplete than the Knight's at the start of their game. With some of the Knight's power-ups, you cant help but feel "about damn time", while with Samus the power-ups feel more like exciting bonuses to an already competent moveset, even though the worlds of both games unravel at a pretty similar pace
@@baaaldur cohesion is a great word. All the elements you mentioned combine to create an immersive experience. When you play a fighting game, you play as a character. When you play a single player game, you ARE the character. What I enjoy about SM is that you’re not stuck behind cutscenes of what your character is like. You decide it for the game. That even plays into sequence breaking as your tools allow expression. This kind of feeling is also why I love Dark Souls, it’s very comparable to me.
@@LeUberTroll that's a great way to put it... another thing i love about SM is how there are barely any cutscenes, no dialogue, no interruptions. immersion is sort of an overused word but thats what it is
I love how u put the map room music during your breakdowns. Reminds me how I felt playing this back in the day. The map room is where I would take a breather, collect myself, and think of where I was headed to next.
The first thing I did in every Metroid game was see how high I could get with Morph Ball Bombs. The game literally taught me if you bounce with one bomb, then do it again in the air, you can chain it. I didn't even know speedrunning existed and I never looked up a guide on the internet back in the early 2000s while first discovering old NES and SNES games. So I totally don't understand where that idea comes from, I thought it was obvious because the game literally expects you to do it, and when you let another one out in the air, you'll inevitably try to chain it as your gamer brain kicks in.
Wow, this was an absolutely monumental achievement in TH-cam video-making! Thank you for the very thorough and interesting take on the walkthrough and game mechanics of Super Metroid. Brings me back to the day in 1994 when I brought the game home and played it religiously on my Super Nintendo, just 1 year before I graduated high school. It remains one of my all-time favorite games, and it's easy to see why. Great stuff. Thank you for the video!!!
The way you describe the gating-off of areas before opening them up again reminds of the golden era of Final Fantasy games, where your transportation options would go from walking -> chocobo -> boat -> airship. Every time you got your new transportation, you'd go back to old towns again that were blocked off before, and go looking for new secrets and side quests that you couldn't access before, always culminating in the endgame with the airship that allowed you to go literally everywhere.
If you don't manage to get the map before being stuck in brinstsr the first time, it's basically impossible to progress without a guide as there's no way someone would think to super missle that one block - happened to me when I first played this 😅
Not really, it's very likely that you wouldn't miss any of the map stations in the game as they are very easy to stumble upon. Even if you did miss the map station you would realize you were at a dead end and try and bomb the wall and see the Super missile logo on the block. I initially got stuck in this game at Ridley's lair entrance and uses the players guide and I was totally convinced Maridia was the last area.
Thankfully, the devs thought of that! It's entirely intended that players can skip varia suit. It would have been all too easy to just make all of Norfair heated. But they didn't. Instead, they made sure the player had enough energy to run through the heated rooms to safety. Missing Kraid means doing a heated run for Speedbooster, then another heated run for Ice Beam. After that, on to phantoon and Gravity suit. I think Gravity gives heat resistance precisely because players were expected to miss Kraid, and I think Bubble Mountain and Crocomire's area are unheated for the same reason.
That's interesting, I guess you don't know if you can make it through the heated areas unless you try to blaze through it - but testing life or death assumptions like that is usually just avoided for a guide at that point as a player shouldn't expect to know that And bombing that one wall to reveal the super missle without the map is far too cryptic to figure out - all and all I would have moved the map room to the blocked off area in brinstar to avoid this
@@kirbs0001 Lol, as if anyone first playing the game can manage to hell run their way throught that...It's really hard. On an unrelated note, Environnemental Station Alpha does something pretty unique early on, as you're actually required to just run throught a heated room with no protection. And it's a lot easier than Super's version of it obviously. On another unrelated note, on my last Echoes playthrought, I discovered that, in dark temple grounds, you can actually get the sky temple key that's supposed to need the light suit(because there is an ultra-toxic gas that makes you lose health quickly despite the dark suit) without the light suit. I made with like 10 energy tanks I think, but you could probably do it with less.
Good video. Yes, I find that good Metroidvanias are all about giving players the illusion of freedom, while actually chaining them into a very small area. But I hadn't even realized just how much Super Metroid opens up in the second half. Just one tiny gripe at 20:35 "Speedrunner techniques that aren't taught to you, like -- bomb jumping" Aaaaactually... once you've completed the game, if you wait at the title, a demo will play. Many secret techniques are shown off there, including bomb jumping. The game does teach you that, in a very roundabout way, just like with the animals! Mockball is probably a bug, though.
This is a very very good video. The Points of No Return are never something I really noticed in Metroid, but you're totally correct in their efficiency and use. It's why a game like Hollow Knight (while still good), is a lot more daunting and overwhelming to explore, "dizzying" at some points, as you put it. Thank you so much for making this, it was very informative.
20:42 The game's Attract mode shows you how to do a few of the game's secret techniques: Bomb Jump, Power Bomb-Beam combos, and even the Crystal Flash. Great video overall, Mark! Looking forward to your breakdown of both SOTN and Hollow Knight.
I love just doing things outta order. And also I love randomizers of this game. The link to the past/super Metroid randomizer is one of my all time favorite gaming experiences.
Just played this, AM2R, and Zero Mission for the first time over the summer, so I’m really hyped for these episodes! EDIT: Been meaning to get into Castlevania for a while now, so this might get more interesting now...
As long as you're aware of the differences between classic Castlevania and Metroidvania, you should be alright (if you're only looking for one of the two, I mean). They are vastly different in design and mechanics.
Before you play the "Metroidvania" Castlevania games, you should play the platformer Castlevania games, if only one, Super Castlevania 4. Even though I love Metroidvanias, the platformer Castlevania games are better in my opinion, they have great pacing and satisfying controls.
Overall the RPG side to the Castlevania games weakens the combat of what should just be action adventure games, but that said. I've only observed it, never actually played a Metroid style Castlevania game besides the Metroid games
I'd recommend Rondo of Blood over 4 any day, seeing as it even ties into Symphony of the Night. 4 is great, but it's by far the easiest of the classic games due to how overpowered the whip is.
That was amazing. Shame you didn't talk about the opening scene, at the station, that served as a great tutorial, but..overall, lots of stuff I didn't realize before. I love your videos, Dude. Can't wait for the Prime series
Hasiumcreeper I couldn’t say “he said it” because he didn’t say “I’m doing Hollow Knight,” but he did say something like “which is something I’ll discuss in an episode later this season” while footage of Hollow Knight played. So...that’s what I meant, anyway. :P
This is a great review of the normal order! I got so used to sequence breaks that I actually forgot how it had all unfolded the first time through. It was like a trip back in time to remember the particular sequence of backtracking. It was all stored in the back of my mind just waiting to be reactivated. Thank you!
@@QrazyQuarian Wrong, The Chozo are the bird people, the statues that you get items from are Chozo Offering Statues, and a Torizo is an evil Chozo Statue.
That feeling when you watch what is becoming one of your favorite episodes and then having the end confirm that the next episode will also be a favorite. It's a good time to be a Castlevania fan.
Excellent job as always Mark. I love seeing the dependency chart coming into Metroidvanias. Really interesting way to see how the world is designed from a boiled down perspective!
Phenomenal video as always. You not only hit on the best parts of Super that make so many people love it as well as what made me bounce off it the first time I went through. Great great job!
Did you even watch his video carefully? He didn't criticize linearity for no reason. For example he criticize zero mission linearity because it clearly show you where to go and you had only small path to truly explore. It didn't feel like you finding new secrets like super metroid but you just following a simple path. Super metroid always give you way forward in unique ways not in some similar way and one way forward. That's why linearity is bad in that case but super metroid's linearity in first pass is not guided with markers but guided you with careful design choices in quite a linear path actually. Linearity is not bad in this case.
@@HerMi.T I have to disagree with him on it being a bad thing in Zero Mission. The game may show you where to go, but it doesn't show you how to get there. You have to figure that out for yourself.
@@Orange_Swirl true but their is more problems in zero mission if you are playing casually. First you are not going to explore the map to find right path to progress further. Which is dependent on you that you like that or not because it is frustrating to explore whole map to find a single path. Which is not really a problem because after you get power bomb. Super metroid stops trapping you in one place and let you explore whole map. It doesn't become boring because there is many places to use your powerups and find many different secrets. It is good and all. It males exploring less of a chore and more of a adventure and when you find a way forward. You feel like discovering some new secrets and this time it is not some items but a new path. But super metroid still has a one problem. Because there is only one way forward and others are optional secrets. You would going to be stuck if you didn't able to figure out where is the way forward. Non linear world will make you progress in different places for different bosses at same time. For example you didn't able to figure out how to reach crocomire but you are able to find draygon's lair. That's the sense of discovery which is present in super metroid but in smaller scale. Because you wil going to find some new items ir missiles but that's all. The reason why i talked about super metroid to give a idea. Just like furst half of super metroid. Zero mission always traps in one place. So you had only one way to explore and find the way forward. Casual player didn't going to experiment because they know their is way forward in that direction. But the biggest problem of zero mission is that it only opens a little bit after getting a powerups means you have to use it in that trapped area and only in one path which feels like a chore. Even though you had to find way forward. It is not really a challenge because you had to just use it one place in small area to find way forward which also doesn't feel like you are opening a new area. It is quite similar to metroid fusion actually. Their is also a time when fusion stops you giving obvious waypoint and even waypoint in general. Then you have to a find a secrets place or secret oath to use your new powerups to open a new area but even unlike fusion, zero mission is even more handholding. When fusion does this things some time? There is a quite a huge chunck of map is open. Wo you had to actually explore to find bew path or you had to remember it from your previous visit. But zero mission only opens a one path when you get powerups and you had to just follow that one path to find new obstacles and powerups. It is not feel like exploring but more likefollow a waypoint even though waypoint is not clear. World design is very guided just like the first part of super metroid. Super metroid didn't have any waypoint but it's first part is very guided and it's opens in huge chunk in second part to make you explore yourself. Zero mission never reach that part. With all things said, I didn't mean zero mission is a bad game but for a newcomer as well as a player who didn't explore much, it would be pretty linear game but those who want to break these sequence and reach every place without guidance. They can easily do that. The real problem of maek against zero mission is not that hus criticisms is wrong but his view on sequence breaking of zero mission is wrong. He said 99% people will miss those hidden paths which is wrong because zero mission is designed in a way which make you pretty tiring follow just waypoints or actually oaths only instead of exploring yourself. And just like you said it make you find your path yourself which will even going to make you find new paths but for these you need to explore every room and it's walk with your bombs and weapons or you had to use wall jumping or bomb jumping to find new secret path. Sequence breaking is easily also possible in super Metroid not jyst in smaller scale but in bigger scale like fighting rudley first or second. But it is very difficult in super Metroid. Even though fighting is not very difficult if you decided to fight phantoon but for this also you had to perform a perfect shinespark which will make you fly throughout the west ocean as well as moat to reach phantoon first. It is so difficult that casual player will not going to do this even though they knew that it is possible. It means 90% percent will not going to do this. But finding hidden path in zero Mission is not very difficult. It is dependent on your own exploration that you are able to find it or not and sometimes game even hints you about hidden paths. And game also has low percent run challenge which will also make you explore and find this hidden paths. Sequence breaking is internal part of zero mission unlike any Metroid. (Yeah super Metroid also make it internal path but it wants skill to truly sequence break. It want a high skill level to sequence break and sometimes even glitches especially in reverse boss order in maridia. You have to perform some glitches like clipping a fake wall to reach other side by using a mochtroid.the reason i said that it need high skill level because there are many places where you can reach with wall jump but developers always make a ledge in that place to hinder your wall jump. Developers knew that you can still reach that place with wall jump but you need mastery in it to jump from a ledge.)
This is one of those cases where you want that the video in youtube is like a couple of months old, so you can jump right into the next video and binge watch it! Really cool video of one of my most beloved games of all time, with the promise of making the next game about my other beloved games of all time SotN! If you promise to make the same with Metal Gear, sir you got a loyal fan!
Having recently played "A Link to the Super Metroid" (an ALttP/Super Metroid crossover randomizer), I've gained an increased appreciation for Super Metroid... but even more so for Metroid Fusion. I still maintain that Super Metroid has the best overall level design and progression of all 2D Metroid games, and that it would benefit greatly from a control scheme like that in Fusion and Zero Mission, but I've definitely found flaws I didn't think about when I originally played the game that had clearly been rectified in the game. You mention a few of them in this video. 1) Metroid Fusion's level design doesn't waste your time as much as Super Metroid's. Super has a fair number of Super Missile gates that only open from one side and close again once you leave the room, as mentioned Norfair has only one exit back up to Brinstar and Crateria, and frankly I really miss the convenient Screw Attack and Speed Booster corridors that connected all the sectors in Metroid Fusion. 2) Super Metroid's Space Jump is a frustrating mess. For a late-game power-up that is supposed to help you explore hard-to-reach areas and pick up those final collectibles, the Space Jump is extremely finicky when it comes to the timing of the jumps. Screw up the timing of a jump when you've almost reached the top of a shaft? Have fun falling all the way back down again, because there's no way to get that power going again until you've hit solid ground! (Similarly, horizontal shinesparks are weirdly difficult to pull off compared to Fusion/ZM?) Complaints aside, though, I love the game's environments (including subtle stuff like that the green bubbles that cover an area in Norfair leak through the doors in surrounding rooms), I love how progression works in the game (although you completely bypass the normal progression when you're playing randomized), I love the music and sound design, and I'm saddened that games aren't made more like Super Metroid was in the present day.
it is possible to restart the space jump, and the timing is not that bad - just don't hit it again while you're rising, and before you're in complete freefall. For horiz shine spark hit and hold your jump from a standing position (or just not running), then immediately press left or right depending on your facing. as far as super missle gates go, I'm pretty sure there's only like 2 that matter - the rest are in their own little areas usually next to power ups (IE grapple beam area) to keep you from just walking to the power up. You are meant to collect wave beam on your second pass through that area (third time in norfair overall), which would be the third time you'd be blocked by the brinstar blue gate. After acquiring the grapple beam you should be exploring the right side of norfair to get the wave beam. I agree though, the wave beam should have been earlier, more on your path, and better connections to norfair should have been made available, like maybe through the rear of the wrecked ship.
JediMB.net Thank you for giving Metroid Fusion a little credit. In fact, I would love to see a 2D Metroid that would be a mix of Super and Fusion: basically, the level design and overall length of Super with Fusion's sci-fi horror ambiance, strong story progression and character development. Imagine having the possibility to randomly encounter a SA-X type of enemy in any room while exploring a Super Metroid type of open environment.
There's some romhacks for Super Metroid that incorporate later improvements. "Control Freak" for modernized controls and "GBA Style" for entirely different physics.
Metroid Fusion(and Zero Mission) definitely waste your time quite a bit. Why do I have to repeat the same speed booster puzzle just to get deeper into Sector 5? Why is there only one elevator for every sector? Why do I have to powerbomb the everliving fuck out of every single room just to find that last energy tank?
If there is one thing I will forever love about this series Mr. Brown, is how you always live up to my thoughts and expectations of whatever next game you cover. Halfway throughout this epsode I thought to myself, "Man it'd be cool if he decided to go over Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night, it is where the Vania comes from in Metroidvania after all, he most likely won't though, seems to want to focus on Metroid." And then whaddya know, oh my god he's gonna cover it in the next episode! You did this at the end of season 1 when you showed you'd go over metroid and dark souls, and now you do it again, you sure do know how to make me happy Mr. Brown, I must say you have excellent taste haha. I look forward to whatever surprises you have in the future after the Symhphony episode as well :)
That’s easy, a decent game but too linear to be a Metroid-Vania. Dread waaaaay over used the “one way path” mechanic so much that it did not feel like exploring, but rather just always pushing forward
dude you couldn't have explained this game any better. It is my favorite game of all time. I didn't get to play it until my early 20s because I never had it as a kid. But ya I have never been so lost in a game before. Like playing all day for literal days trying different shit. The one that really got me was the tube you have to power bomb to get to maridia. Keep doing what you're doing Mark, these are exceptionally well done.
When season one ended, I hoped so hard that Mark would pivot to Metroid. Now, he's hinted at a Hollow Knight video, AND the next one is gonna be on Symphony of the Night?? All my dreams are coming true ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you for this in-depth video! I've been studying Super Metroid recently, and I appreciate having so many lessons it offers in a concise single video.
I love it when you end lil' explanation sentences with a brief pause, followed by one word, a little adjective or compliment. It makes me want you as a companion robot in everyday life. Then you could serve me breakfast and say: "And now, after having taken a shortcut to the kitchen and explored the area, I managed to find the eggs and toast, and then made my way back here around the other side of the table in the hallway, to now serve them to you. *_T a s t y ._* "
This was a great video, thanks for making it! After years of knowing many of the sequence breaks it was hard to look at Super Metroid from a fresh set of eyes, and this reinvigorated my appreciation for its structure and everything it nails. I think some of the negative points are overblown (like if I remember right that wall you walk through is pretty obvious in the context of the nearby rooms, and also optional), but it's great that you mentioned them, since no game is perfect. This video would definitely be on my "must watch" list for anyone interested in creating a Metroidvania game, not to mention this series as a whole!
Thanks for this video. There is a lot of videos analyzing this classic, but this is the best and most analytical so far. And props for not spoiling the ending for n00bs who have yet to play this one. There has been a lot of new very high quality metroidvanias during the past few years (Guacamelee!, Ori and the blind forest, Hollow Knight..) so I would think a lot of people are curious about the origins of the genre - and Super Metroid is of course pretty much the most important, acclaimed and influencial one. Like Mark well put it "mission complete, job done, genre defined"
"It wasn't a huge hit at the time" I was only a child when it came out, but where I lived in California, it was the most important videos game for quite some time.
Francis Thompson at some point you got to go there, but if you play this first time you don't get the idea to go through the wall because the xRay scanner doesn't show that you can go there. it is the first moment, where you just have to guess and run into the wall...
That area is heavily signposted. First of all, you're locked in a small area because the lava rose behind you. You'll have defeated Ridley before you have any reason to go through that wall, because you only need it to escape. The platform next to the wall seems out of place because you wouldn't need to stand on it to get anywhere. The door to the right leads to a dead end with a power up just out of your reach, which encourages you to start sniffing around for secrets. And you know that you need to be heading up and to the left because you're at the bottom right of everywhere you've explored before. And you've defeated every boss, so you really want to get to Tourian. Oh and you've already walked through 2 other walls recently that were more heavily signposted by being in the middle of a statue(rock formation?)'s mouth
11:49 I think I have never come far enough to hear this music... Although I am too young (2001) to have been playing this masterpiece in the same time you all did, so you've got that advantage of exploring and figuring out Super Metroid together, it's probably more fun to explore by myself anyway! :)
Man, that was really well laid out. I love the charts too, what a good way to visualize it. Even loving this game since childhood, this helps put a finger on some of the reasons. Thanks for posting this!
I have played quite a fair bit of Metroidvania games far before I played Super Metroid, and when I finally got around to within a year ago, I found that I didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped. I found the controls kind of clunky and slow a lot of the time, which caused me to die a lot, and there are many times I got lost because I had no direction, and the game likes to throw things at you where you have to find a secret, like you said with 15:25. I honestly wished I enjoyed it more, while I understand that it was revolutionary for its time, newer games seem to understand what makes the genre work much more, Ori and the Blind Forest for example both nails the controls and exploration. After watching this video, I will say that I understand it somewhat more now, but I still find it daunting when I look at the map and have no idea where I am or where to go, that is something I don't fear anymore in other games where I was constantly lost, yet find my way eventually, so that speaks volumes for how I feel about this game.
You can completely rebind the controls in the main menu. Any slowness in the controls is just a matter of player skill. If you watch high-level players, you'll see the level of precision and responsiveness in the controls is astounding.
it's relevant to your comment about clunkiness. You think/feel it's clunky because you've played it very little. after playing even a second time through it's incomparable in the difference of your starting skill to your new skill. The game offers you a lot of ways to control your motion, and understanding how you move is key to moving well. could all of your movement options be explained better? Yes, probably. A clunky game, it does not make. Look at something like Super mario sunshine - tons of movement options. Do you know how to really move well after 1 playthrough? no, not really. Do they explain all your options? no. That doesn't mean it's clunky either.
Like the other commenter said, it is a counter-argument to your criticism that the controls were clunky and slow a lot of the time. The controls enable a variety of precise movement options which, in combination with the game's other mechanics, give the player of a lot of freedom both in exploration and in combat.
"Ori and the Blind Forest for example both nails the controls and exploration" How does it do that when you can never explore anything but the intended, direct path? This isn't exploration, it's a guided tour. If you can't get lost, you're not exploring.
I played this game on SNES far before there was any internet on my city and everything I knew was what me and a friend of mine would exchange in information. Now I'm always anxious to finish a game and start another one, but by that time games weren't made so fast and it was hard to put our hands on them, so I felt really inclined to explore games in detail, but not anymore. I'm glad that people today, even with all the options and distractions, still dissecate games to a degree I would never do.
You should've mentioned the intro sequence, before we land on Zebes. Samus boards that space colony and finds everyone dead and the power out, eventually coming to the room with the metroid and Ridley. Then the mad rush back to the elevator! I loved the video though and really appreciate your content, keep it up!
I didn't know how to infinite bomb jump until I finally learned it... from Super Metroid. It just popped up in the demonstrations from the title screen and I finally could see/understand the best way to time it. Love that little push from the devs themselves to go back into the game and have a new experience after finishing it.
Analyses of SotN, Prime, and likely Hollow Knight sound definitely exciting. However, the analysis I'm personally holding hope out for the most is La-Mulana. Namely, I feel like that game is woefully underanalyzed for something that represents such an unusual extreme in the genre. To me it seems to operate on a completely different paradigm of design from the rest of the genre: other games think about avoiding the "stuck and frustrated" scenario with varying degrees of subtlety, while La-Mulana builds itself so that this scenario is practically inevitable, in a manner which has to be deliberate. Unfortunately I suspect my hope is in vain, but I still don't want to let go of it.
Thank you for the -as usual- awesome work you’ve done. Super Metroid still is one of the most influancial game I’ve played, I still cannot believe how the designers crafted such a masterpiece at that time. They were real games pionneers.
I never thought about it before but it's kind of weird that Crocomire doesn't count as a "boss" (i.e., he doesn't have a statue in the room before Turian). He gets boss music when you fight him, he guards an essential item and he gets the most cinematic death in the game, but he doesn't get the title of "boss." #justiceforcrocomire
i think its so you can skip them
It’s because Croc is not the main boss of Norfair (which is Ridley), he is just a mini boss. There are other mini bosses, including ones that are intended to guard a critical progression item (e.g. Torizo, Spore Spawn). Croc is just probably the most memorable one.
@@lycadog best thing the devs do is not truly force you to kill the poor thing
I think the devs realized that the grappling beam is optional.
Aaaaaand he's the coolest of the bosses. :)
>If you come back to Ridley after getting each power up, you're going to leave disappointed. Twice.
Can confirm
I dont get this. The last lock's power up is available right after the second lock. So you should only really need be disappointed once right?
@@erikm9768 Except if you come back just after getting the second power up
@SuperNinja's Personal Channel Because Super Metroid wasn't my first Metroid game, so I already knew you could go into lava....
@SuperNinja's Personal Channel you come back there because only ridley is remaining and you can see ridley face in that lava pool. But yeah you are right actually.
@SuperNinjaPlaysGames I was just playing Super Metroid on the Switch and I went back just after getting the Gravity suit lol
Super Metroid's sequence breaking is how you do it right, imo. You might not be able to fight bosses in any order you want if you play the game normally, but that's a good thing because it rewards skilled players for figuring out how to break the sequence. If there's no sequence to break, it wouldn't feel rewarding to fight the bosses in any order you want.
Good point. On Breath of the Wild is not rewarding beat the bosses.
@@felipetartas5434 well that's not why it isn't rewarding. The problem is that those bosses aren't very hard, look all the same, aren't very well designed and don't really give that much(other than breaking the game with revali's gale, which is not a good thing). If you were supposed to beat them in a specific order sequence breaking(if it were possible) wouldn't actually make beating them more rewarding.
I think to some degree it is an inherent problem with that dynamic (non-linear RPGs with significant power growth) rather than DS1 being rushed. For example, DS2 has a similar issue. Symphony of the Night also has it, to a much bigger degree. If you are supposed to be able to fight bosses in any order, yet at the same time beating ones makes you significantly stronger, it follows that subsequent boss each will tend to become less, rather than more challenging.
@@11th_defender51 I found them all reasonably difficult, extremely distinct, and perfectly designed around the premise of their fight and the Divine Beast you meet them in.
@@CoralCopperHead distinct? no way. Only the lightning one was a little bit distinct.
It took me over a year to realize the "Metroid was put on ice" pun. _THAT_ is clever.
i don't get it... does samus get frozen or something? pls ecplain
@@Paulito-ym4qc Metroids (the iconic jellyfish creatures the series is named after) are weak to the cold; they need frozen by the ice beam before being vulnerable to missiles.
@@Spritesuit thank you! it IS clever. also thanks for answering a question on a one year old comment on a two year old video.
@@Paulito-ym4qc she does get frozen later tho, or more clearly can be, due to something that happens in the sequel Metroid Fusion (which I will not say since you might not have played it considering your reply).
@@Spritesuit also i just realized that oomas from hollow knight are a metroid reference
but theyre weak to bugs with dad bods, not ice
Nice use of the NES mother brain over the ruined Super footage! I did something similar myself, and frankly it's the best way to show it.
I can see why some people can get frustrated with Super, I think it's mostly to do with nostalgia, or lack thereof, but as you've shown, a metroidvania isn't just about open ended exploration.
I can see a lot of game devs using this video from now on!
Agreed! Also, Dan - I think your video was the first time I realized you pass Mother Brain's room at the beginning of Super Metroid. Thank you for blowing my mind with that.
You two are really similar, mark and dan
Mark Brown play Darkwood on steam and do a gamers tool kit on it. Please.
Although its top down Horror it includes all of the elements you describe for Dark Souls and Metroid
When I saw this in Mark’s video I immediately thought of your Super Metroid vid. Great way to show off that room.
Holy shit! I never knew that Old Brinstar was the Mother Brain location. What an eyeopener after... 20 years!
Bomb jumping is shown in one of the demo scenes when you sit at the title screen for a bit.
Isn't that only if you have a save that has cleared the game? There's at least one thing like that only put in the demo if you've beaten the game.
I don't know which ones specifically but I've heard the Crystal Flash demo has that requirement.
So I was thinking the same thing and as such. I decided to fire up my copies of Super Metroid and see because I remembered just that. The idle demo scenes show you different techniques and attacks that you can do throughout the game.
For Science, lol. I took both versions of the game. Japanese and North American that I have and left them running to watch all the demo scenes. Both games showed off various scenes including: IBJ (Infinite Bomb Jumping also the advanced jumping into an IBJ), Shine Sparking in different directions (Vertical, Diagonal, Horizontal), Using the grapple beam and the blocks on which you use it on. (Including different actions on how to move while grappled) How to and when to Crystal Flash!!! How to use alternative charge beam combo attacks with your Power Bombs. What happens if you shoot and kill the Fireflea's in a dark room. Shows you how to defeat Gadora's with missiles. Shows the Golden Statues and what happens after you kill a boss, and more. Just letting the game go idle at the title screen allows you to see all manner of techniques, attacks, and special awareness that you might not see or catch on your initial play through.
Also @WizardofWestmarch I you might be correct here. I took the Japanese cart and deleted all the saves down to a base game. The Japanese cart showed off different cut-scenes. However this may be slight differences between the regions and/or 'Rev.' changes to the carts. I am not willing to delete my original first time full clear save from decades ago on my North American cart. :/
@@vp-retro I believe the US and JP versions are identical, aside from the physical differences between cartridges.
While that has been my understanding as well. There could be slight differences in Revisions (Rev) of the game. This is what I am trying to check now.
One of the greatest games ever made. Can’t wait to see you cover Prime.
he's probably gonna complain that it's too linear.
@@pforgottonsoul Prime is actually way too non-linear in my opinion
@@alecfrancis47 In my opinion, Prime is linear then decides to not tell you where to go, and the only way I found where I should be in game was with the hints they gave you. Then it becomes linear again until you're free to search for Chozo artifacts. I prefered Super Metroid that didn't need hints to progress and where you almost progress constantly. I've still enjoyed Prime, but not as much as Super.
THANK YOU, I've been saying that for a while now. he makes great videos with a really high quality, but his complaining about linearity and how it makes something bad (oh and "nobody cares about story in video games") is just.. come on man. you've got to be better than that if you want to appeal to the masses
Well, Prime IS linear, but with extreme amounts of backtracking sometimes. One time the game straight up tricks you to go to a giant underwater part, where you can't actually proceed. And when you realize that, you have to slowly climb back up, while hardly seeing anything. I mean, still Prime is one of my favourite games, but when I recently replayed it, it made me feel like the game is just artifically made much much longer than it would've been.
The barriers that form behind you also sort of add to the sense of you becoming 'lost', since they constantly push you into unfamiliar territory--> worth nothing is that, immediately after the blue shutter, you stumble upon the 'Brinstar Red Soil' portion of the zone, with entirely different visuals and music, and from there, stumble into Norfair and Kraid's lair, complete with a sneak-peak of Maridia. You're introduced to three or four entirely new areas all at once, and simultaneously shut out of everything before that, for what can be a good hour or two of exploration, at least, finding the High Jump, Varia Suit, Ice and Wave Beams, before you can pull yourself back up to the familiar surface of Crateria by acquiring the power bombs.
"Like Zelda: A Link to the Past and Dark Souls" what a hell of a sentence
Uh what...
@@markrolle2527 Yeah those two games have very similar structures. He went over that in his video on the world design of Dark Souls
"... we have an Escape Sequence (don't forget to save the animals)"
Mark confirmed to be anti-speedrun
She saves them canonically so~
You ever seen those bidding wars for the escapes?
One of the greatest super metroid speedruna (that was a wr ) they saved the animals 😏😏lol
I saw someone lose a race because he saved the animals, once. It was a SM randomizer races, but still.
Those guys helped you learn how to long jump and shinespark you mustn’t forsake them
Best thing about having a video game like this was having it in a house without internet. No cheating, all the most awarding when you made discoveries without assistance. What an excellent game.
For the record, Super Metroid DOES teach about Bomb Jumping. After clearing the game, a new demo video appears after the title screen.
th-cam.com/video/QsIBLOx12KU/w-d-xo.htmlm20s
This demo demonstrates horizontal Shinesparking, Bomb Jumping, Charge Beam Combos, and the Crystal Flash.
The other demos show diagonal Shinesparking, the Spin Jump Attack, and other hints for new players.
In this way the game is built for multiple, unique playthroughs.
How do they know you cleared the game
@@voltaireentertainment Many games secretly auto-save certain things separately from your visible "save file". As a clearer example, after beating _Metroid: Zero Mission_ your save file gets marked with a Metroid icon on the menu to indicate game cleared, and your map screen now includes a collectibles list and total playtime.
@@Stratelier oh I asked cause after you heat it you have to reset your console.
@@voltaireentertainment Yeah, games of the era didn't typically reset to the title screen automatically, but that doesn't mean they can't still record the game being beaten. For comparison, you start Super Metroid at Ceres space station, right? But after touching down on Zebes your ship is _already_ marked as the current save point. (That was an autosave!)
@@Stratelier You are right Thanks for the insight 🙏.
I definitely think bomb jumping was intentional. There is a debate whether mock balling is intentional, but I'm not too sure. Anyway, super metroid is my favourite game ever, and this is a great video on it!!
100% bomb jumping is intentional. There's no way QA did not catch this. Just mashing the bomb button over and over you can get 4-5 jumps in the air if you're good and lucky. This falls under advacned tactics, but really every kid in the world found out you could do bomb jumping early when messing with the bomb power up. my friends and I alone are a testament to that.
One of the demos for Super Metroid actually shows Samus doing an infinite bomb jump outside in Crateria. Said demo shows it alongside the Shine Spark and a Crystal Flash, implying these are all advanced special techniques that were put into the game. If Infinite Bomb Jumping wasn't intended initially it was officially adopted at some point in production considering Nintendo themselves highlighted it.
What Omnicrom and Justin White said is true, here is a video showing the title screen demos. Infinite bomb jump is at 4:52 and only gets shown after you beat the game.
th-cam.com/video/QsIBLOx12KU/w-d-xo.html
pretty sure it was intentional at this point, since many people used bomb jumping in the first Metroid. I guess the question is, was it intentional in the original Metroid?
Intentional, planned for, but not intended as the main way of progression.
I will always remember playing this game and falling into a room with no way out only to notice that the little animals are trying to teach me how to get out, i remember being soo impressed about how cool that samus is able to do theses maneuver and only missing the right techniques to do so, also there was no text or 3h cutscene to teach you all of this, what an amazing game!
I've got a point of insight on your comment about sequence-breaking not always being something included in more indie metroidvanias. Years ago when I was more active in the Super Metroid romhacking communities, we used to have discussions and arguments about how to add sequence-breaks to our romhacks. One notable takeaway I remember was the argument that sequence-breaking is not "sequence-breaking" if the developers *intended* for the breaks to happen.
So using Super Metroid as the example, items you can access with walljumps and shinesparks wouldn't count as a sequence-break since the developers teach you about them, aka they knew about them, but items you can get with infinite bomb jumps or mockballs would be considered sequence-breaks because it's assumed the devs didn't know about them. (Edit: I forgot that infinite bomb jumps were in fact shown in the title screen demos. A better comparison of unintended mechanics would be mockball and backwards green gate glitching, or suitless Maridia.) That's why at the time even though Zero Mission was mostly linear but it was absolutely full of ways to break the game's sequence and get nearly every item out of order, it wasn't considered a proper game to "sequence-break" since all of those alternate routes were added by the developers. In parallel, Metroid Prime is also a mostly linear game. but you can really break the sequence of using all sorts of tricks that weren't intended by the developers so people considered it a true sequence-breaking paradise, more so after new versions of the game came out with the tricks we used in the original versions fixed or patched out.
So for us, we'd have discussions about if we were really adding sequence-breaks to our hacks if we were leaving behind routes for the players to find and break sequence, like how Zero Mission did it. Some hacks ended up with developer intended routes, others had naturally discovered breaks. Some hack makers even patched out sequence-breaks that they didn't intend sometimes for reasons of better game design and sometimes for...ego reason? Romhacking gets weird. For a while hacks were more linear but in recent years I think a lot of people are using a more open level design like how you've described the 2nd half of Super Metroid because whether or not sequence-breaks are intended, the game is usually more fun to play when you can stumble onto the right path out of a few possible ones. Now all we have to do is learn how to avoid overwhelming the player with options at any given time.
I wonder if some of this "intended" vs "unintended" sequence-breaking debate made its way into the minds of some recent indie Metroidvania developers. Might explain a few games and how they choose to represent the idea of sequence-breaking in a genre that loves the concept.
Hmm. I feel that "only unintended" counting for sequence breaking is an idea that really just hurts design.
Many mechanics are unintentional originally, but turn out to be really good and are then kept, such as a certain mechanic in Street Fighter. We now know about sequence breaking, and can incorporate it intentionally, to ensure sequence breaking actually turns out interesting.
One important thing to note is that Infinite Bomb Jumps were intended by the SM devs, as there's a title screen sequence showing the technique, along with a few other things like beam combos and the crystal flash.
I personally think that sequence breaks are still sequence breaks even if intended. As long as there is a clear "standard" path that players are expected to take unless deliberately going out of their way to avoid doing, than any deviation from it is a sequence break in my eyes. This relates to why I much prefer Zero Mission's sequence breaks to Prime's, as they're reasonably accessible without being too easy, while sequence breaking in Prime is often ridiculously hard. I only sequence break in Prime at all because I play through it quite often, and even then it's mostly just early space jump and a few resultant shortcuts, along with a handful of individual items to minimize backtracking. It's just not suitable for sequence breaking without so much dedication that the game loses its original fun.
I think Sequence Breaks are definitely something you can define even when placed with developer intention. Using your Zero Mission example, there are a lot of alternate paths through the game but there's clearly a designed sequence of events that the game wishes for you to follow using the chozo statues and the main progression of powerups, and the alternate paths, even if placed by the developers, are still a way of breaking the sequence. There's definitely a distinction to be made between glitched ones and developer ones but I think they still both qualify.
Pwrplus5 I agree. Taking an alternate path is only not a sequence break when there isn't a well-defined sequence to begin with. Metroid 1, for example.
Every time I see Super Metroid, I want to play it again. It's damn near perfection.
I’m lost and getting frustrated playing this game. I’ll keep going.
Edit: I finished the game thanks to your hint for ice beam. It’s amazing that the very game created an entire genre still stands so triumphantly. I’m now ready for Dread!!
I got frustrated as well but once you get used to how the game works its pretty good. You just need to read its little hints and mark the spots you couldn't access before you got your new powerup. The game still uses a lot of fake blocks which obstruct your progress but they're not that hard to find
@@ΟΑυγολεμονος True! I couldn’t believe this game was made decades ago. Masterpiece indeed.
I love the talk around 9:20. The game could've just easily show you things you can do, then show you things you couldn't have done without the things it showed first, resulting in a totally linear experience. By swapping doable things with undoable things, it makes you feel like you worked for your progress and earned the way forward. It also makes you feel smart for figuring all of this out. So cool! Man, awesome video! Thanks for this series and all the great stuff!
Art. Super Metroid is ART. I love everything about it, and worship this game, and this series.
samus simp ftw
Mark, would you consider doing a video on games that give a genre a completely new twist, while still staying totally true to those genres?
It could be neat to hear you talk about how a game without bullets can be a fun on-rails shooter (Pokémon Snap) or 3rd person shooter (Splatoon). How far can you deviate from the norm without making a new genre entirely?
(please like if this is something you'd be interesting in)
Gamejam 2018 got you thinking, huh?
That sounds like the theme of the game jam. The snake pass video is about a platformer without jumping.
I was gonna like this comment till you said please like.
He did one on XCOM.
Who else sat in the “run room” for 20 minutes because they didn’t know how to run?
Don't forget accidentally falling in the shine spark tutorial and saving down there. Keeping you stuck until you learn the shine spark, or reset your game.
@@WaldoIsahider I don't know. Watching the bird do it makes it pretty clear. Run, run, run, run, stop-crouch, jump.
Did you know you can Shinespark horizontally and diagonally upward, for a total of 5 directions, and pull off any of those from mid-air?
I did it for like an hour.
I had to ask a friend of mine who knew all about most metroid games. Legit had no idea there was a run button.
Probably because this was the only game that HAD one
Woah, you got me really excited from that Hollow Knight tease
Same here. Really looking forward to see a Hollow Knight video from Mark!
Almost nine months later aaannd. . . still nothing.
@@morgaine3792 greetings from future, HK video is out and it's worth it!
Hollow Knight is overrated. Big fan of the genre tho
@@mypartyisprivate8693 no game has ever got me hooked like hollow knight
Interestingly, bomb jumping is actually only taught to you in this game, and it teaches you outside of actual gameplay hints like the animals. Wait at the title screen to see the technique demoed.
Dear goodness, VR Super Metroid would be wonderful. Although every jump would make you need to put down your controller for a few min. while your equilibrium recovers.
what a nice thing to wake up to!
I've been playing through the later Castlevania games recently and boy howdy, there's a massive difference in world design between something like SotN and Harmony of Dissonance. people think Metroidvania worlds are all the same, but not really at all.
I'd love to see some CV Boss Keys episodes btw. EDIT: but then I also posted this comment before finishing the video so WOO looking forward to next time.
Okay, this video is in J. Kenji's cooking equipment review playlist and I was sent here after watching a 30 minute video about his kitchen pots. Gotta say i love the unexpected change.
those were some dank corridors bro
BROOOOO
Something else that’s genius about SM is the Attract Mode videos if you leave the title screen idle for a few seconds. They show off so many things that teach the player the game mechanics such as running and what certain items do. There’s even a hidden one you unlock after finishing the game that shows off things like Infinite Bomb Jumping and The Crystal Flash.
i love metroid, the prime trilogy is my favorite!
E tu che ci fai qui?
hey qual è il tuo gioco metroid preferito
~NOBODY CARES~ ~NOBODY CARES~!
Prime sucks ass. 2d Metroids are the only good ones
This is the way
"The entrance to Ridley's lair is a bit weird actually, so for one it's got three locks in a row"
Makes sense story wise since by the time of Super he's fought against Samus and died at least three or four times before.
I doubt that was intentional since prime probably wasn’t even a thought in the devs mind during the game’s development
When the game was made, he only fought her twice (Metroid 1, and the Ceres part of Super), and he beat her at Ceres. Prime and the remakes were not considered/even in development at this time, so that story tidbit is fuzzy at best due to retcons.
You could argue that there are dozens of locks, but the three standout ones are Kraid, Phantoon, and Draygon. It’s intriguing to think how Ridley is the last major obstacle shielding Mother Brain (as everything in Zebes functions), but Ridley is also the first enemy exposed in the game. The subtle storytelling of the entire game suggests to me that Ridley never expected to run into Samus at Ceres.
@@seedofwonder Which has unfortunately been retconned thanks to Samus Returns, as it establishes that the reason Ridley even went to Ceres in the first place was because he was following Samus taking the baby Metroid there.
@@AICW Right, but he also watches her leave before he goes to Ceres.
That mention of hidden advanced movement techniques you mentioned at the end gets me thinking that you might be interested in a game called Rabi-Ribi. it is a metroidvania with bullet hell bosses that is super anime and is fairly fun on its own even with its rather... unremarkable story. What makes it so addicting though is the plethora of speedrunning and sequence breaking techniques. These are also encouraged in game with secrets and achievements and the like. For example you can wall jump right from the start without the power up by combining two hidden techs, the reverse wall kick and the drop kick allowing you to wall jump twice. This combo allows you to pick up power-ups way out of order, skip bosses and zones, and most fun of all do the 0% run were you dont pick up a single item at all including your basic melee attack. the only things you get are your ranged attack (in the form of a fairy) and one or two main plot related items, so without power ups the game becomes a puzzle on how to get around with the hidden techs and all the boss fights change due to your lack of a melee attack option. Even if you dont find the game to your tastes i still think its something worth checking out.
Anyway great video as always i can never get enough of video game design talk.
I'll try it
I couldn't agree more about Rabi-Ribi, it's one of the greatest of all time in the genre.
Glad to see someone else who loves Rabi-Ribi! I think it's also worth mentioning that not only can you skip a lot of upgrades (though it's worth mentioning that you either must do EXACTLY 0% or grab a few of them to be able to complete the game--the very late areas require certain items unless the game actually detects a 0% run), but you can grab upgrades in unusual ways, skip certain bosses (though you need to fight them later), use "non-mobility" attacks like Bunny Whirl and Bunny Strike for mobility in some situations, and in general complete most of the game in roughly whatever order you'd like. You may be struggling against the difficulty curve to do it, but you're free to try.
The game also alters the attacks of many bosses based on the items you have. The most common difference is that you won't see tall columns of bullets that you aren't capable of jumping over.
I love Rabi-Ribi! Arguably my favourite Metroidvania apart from the Metroid series~
I keep coming back to this video every couple of months 😅
Serious this is the best Level design channel for a mile, i read tons of game design books, and i will say that only here i feel like a improved after each video
As usual, not only this analysis is super-well made, but actually useful for game devs. Thanks and keep up the good work.
This stuff is particularly important as level design is a pretty large part of what makes a game good in my opinion, and yet often seems to have been let aside in the developement process.
Mark. I have to say that bomb jumping was something that I learned by myself. When confronted with an obstacle that I couldn't overcome or just by screwing around and experimenting with what the game gave me it was just way to easy to learn how to do that.
The moment I learned how to wall jump was also without getting to the room with the animals, as Samus' pose changes when you press the opposite direction of the wall you are against. So the game gives you hints on how to progress but also on how to use the basic tools that it gives you.
Speed jumping is not the case, though.
I learned bomb jumping in Metroid 2.
This is easily my favorite video series on TH-cam. The work you put into these videos continues to impress me, and you’re always able to cover so much information about these games but in a clear and to the point way.
This is my favorite video game ever and I believe it’s map design is one of it’s best qualities along with the controls and music!
The room at 14:00 was the only time I have ever in my life needed to look up a walkthrough for a video game. When I had gone to this point, it was drilled into my head not to jump in the lava. The game assumes that after you get an item far away that doesn't tell you you can go in lava, your first reaction will be to jump into lava. Even if you figure out the gravity suit makes you immune to the warm lava, you likely would have forgotten about this room, or tried getting up but not being able to get high enough.
Late reply but I recently did my very first super Metroid playthrough. It was hard-wired into my brain that lava=bad too until I got the X-Ray visor. It showed the lava as “invisible” and that’s how I knew I could jump in it. It wasn’t until after I beat the game that I learned that it does the whole “invisible” thing even before you get the gravity suit.
@@seaslugg22 super metroid is good on a second playthrough, but an optional item shouldn't be what teaches some players
Every time he says you can’t get there.
Speed runner: hold my beer
**Laughs in sequence break**
@@etherealessence I wouldn’t even consider things like wall jumping to the wave beam a sequence break, the devs totally knew you could do that
@@cosmiclikesminecraft and even mockball isn't sequence breaking. It is however used TO sequence break, much like wall jumping, bomb jumping and shine sparking are.
"We fight Mother Brain in a jar. We- oh my that's a bit different, okay."
This channel is underrated.
At this point I'd say it's "rated"
👀
Almost 500 K subscribers ;D ! Doing pretty well in my opinion !
Have you seen how much he makes from Patreon? I think it's "finely rated".
Damn son mark got 400,000 subscribers in the span of a month
I gotta say Mark, I love your videos but I think you really undersold how cool the sequence breaking aspect of super Metroid is. The little critters that teach you to wall jump and shine spark can really change the way you interact with the game world which organically leads you to do something I think other games don’t really do which is challenge the environment that the developers give you. The world is filled with very simple door and lock puzzles that with sequence breaking instead become challenges or puzzles to an experienced player. Many of the power ups can be obtained without the “key” so to speak but instead with Samus’ innate abilities and it is incredibly satisfying when you get a power up in a way you weren’t “intended” to. But it is really cool how the designers programmed this into their game, purposefully allowing you to “break” the game and go in a different order. And that I think is very cool.
I love that Boss Keys logo! It’s so creative!
I'm actually playing through this game again right now. I remember getting it as a kid in 1994 at Best Buy and having the box, I still have a photo of me with it as a child with the game in the box being so proud. It is still one of my favorite games of all time to this day.
7:18 This is actually how I figured it out as well. I figured they wouldn't lock me in a room that I couldn't get out of, so I experimented.
The game's opening demos also have a lot of teaching material in them too. Others have pointed out how the final demo, which unlocks after you've beaten the game, reveals easily-missed and potentially sequence-breaking tricks such as the infinite bomb jump; but the demos the game starts with also provide extra context for things that some players could get stumped by or not notice.
It's pretty methodical, starting with basics like "doors will open if shot" and "pink doors will open if you select missiles" (because remember, it wasn't until Prime and Fusion that the games started explaining in text how to use items), proceeding through tips like "this is the part you shoot to open this metal barrier" and "don't try to reach that stone Ridley head by swimming through the lava and ice beam climbing your way up or something; there are going to be items at some point that let you do it safely", and finishing with showing how that big gold statue is eventually going to do something.
It's mostly stuff that experienced video game players will probably figure out naturally just by fiddling, but it provides one more safety net for anyone who might be stumped in an era before you could just Google things.
It’s hard to think that this game, being so old, has yet to be topped in execution. Sure there’s games that are better in specific aspects, but the overall quality is greater than anything that has been released since.
I think Hollow Knight is greater in execution, its better in world design as it is even less linear than Super Metroid and specially its better in mobility, since Samus in SM moves like a drunken whale. In that regard, the game has aged poorly.
BUT, its true that when it came out, SM was far more original and creative. It's a genre-defining game for a reason.
Hollow Knight is more non-linear and has more quantity of content than SM (neither of which I think are inherently good), but it's not as intricate. Mark's comment here about almost every room being visually distinct rings true (which is also something true of the geometry of those rooms); HK is more repetitive, with most rooms in each zone being very visually similar and often lacking such a strong sense of distinctiveness and purpose. Having a very low frequency of new abilities after the wall jump further exacerbates this sense of repetitiveness.
In terms game feel, HK has less indirection than SM but I don't think this is necessarily a good thing or a bad thing (I could take either one of them, but e.g. I prefer Sonic 3 which has more indirection than SM over either of them).
I love Hollow Knight but one thing Metroid has over it imo is that it's more... cohesive? It's a bit hard to explain but with almost every power up in SM, certainly every required power up, it feels like a really substantial addition to your arsenal that doesnt just affect your method of exploring Zebes, opening up new paths and simplifying traversal, but also impacts your combat ability. Every gameplay aspect feels interwoven in Samus, who by the end of the game is destroying enemies simply by crashing into them with the Screw Attack/Space Jump (also the fastest method of traversal). HK is by no means bad in this regard but I think SM still does it better than any of its imitators. The sequence breaking is also better in SM, which I think is important in a "metroidvania", and Samus's moveset at the beginning of the game also feels better and less incomplete than the Knight's at the start of their game. With some of the Knight's power-ups, you cant help but feel "about damn time", while with Samus the power-ups feel more like exciting bonuses to an already competent moveset, even though the worlds of both games unravel at a pretty similar pace
@@baaaldur cohesion is a great word. All the elements you mentioned combine to create an immersive experience. When you play a fighting game, you play as a character. When you play a single player game, you ARE the character. What I enjoy about SM is that you’re not stuck behind cutscenes of what your character is like. You decide it for the game. That even plays into sequence breaking as your tools allow expression. This kind of feeling is also why I love Dark Souls, it’s very comparable to me.
@@LeUberTroll that's a great way to put it... another thing i love about SM is how there are barely any cutscenes, no dialogue, no interruptions. immersion is sort of an overused word but thats what it is
I love how u put the map room music during your breakdowns. Reminds me how I felt playing this back in the day. The map room is where I would take a breather, collect myself, and think of where I was headed to next.
The first thing I did in every Metroid game was see how high I could get with Morph Ball Bombs. The game literally taught me if you bounce with one bomb, then do it again in the air, you can chain it. I didn't even know speedrunning existed and I never looked up a guide on the internet back in the early 2000s while first discovering old NES and SNES games. So I totally don't understand where that idea comes from, I thought it was obvious because the game literally expects you to do it, and when you let another one out in the air, you'll inevitably try to chain it as your gamer brain kicks in.
Wow, this was an absolutely monumental achievement in TH-cam video-making! Thank you for the very thorough and interesting take on the walkthrough and game mechanics of Super Metroid. Brings me back to the day in 1994 when I brought the game home and played it religiously on my Super Nintendo, just 1 year before I graduated high school. It remains one of my all-time favorite games, and it's easy to see why. Great stuff. Thank you for the video!!!
Here because it was on Kenji Lopez's playlist.
The way you describe the gating-off of areas before opening them up again reminds of the golden era of Final Fantasy games, where your transportation options would go from walking -> chocobo -> boat -> airship. Every time you got your new transportation, you'd go back to old towns again that were blocked off before, and go looking for new secrets and side quests that you couldn't access before, always culminating in the endgame with the airship that allowed you to go literally everywhere.
If you don't manage to get the map before being stuck in brinstsr the first time, it's basically impossible to progress without a guide as there's no way someone would think to super missle that one block - happened to me when I first played this 😅
Not really, it's very likely that you wouldn't miss any of the map stations in the game as they are very easy to stumble upon.
Even if you did miss the map station you would realize you were at a dead end and try and bomb the wall and see the Super missile logo on the block.
I initially got stuck in this game at Ridley's lair entrance and uses the players guide and I was totally convinced Maridia was the last area.
Thankfully, the devs thought of that!
It's entirely intended that players can skip varia suit.
It would have been all too easy to just make all of Norfair heated. But they didn't.
Instead, they made sure the player had enough energy to run through the heated rooms to safety.
Missing Kraid means doing a heated run for Speedbooster, then another heated run for Ice Beam.
After that, on to phantoon and Gravity suit.
I think Gravity gives heat resistance precisely because players were expected to miss Kraid, and I think Bubble Mountain and Crocomire's area are unheated for the same reason.
That's interesting, I guess you don't know if you can make it through the heated areas unless you try to blaze through it - but testing life or death assumptions like that is usually just avoided for a guide at that point as a player shouldn't expect to know that
And bombing that one wall to reveal the super missle without the map is far too cryptic to figure out - all and all I would have moved the map room to the blocked off area in brinstar to avoid this
@@kirbs0001 Lol, as if anyone first playing the game can manage to hell run their way throught that...It's really hard.
On an unrelated note, Environnemental Station Alpha does something pretty unique early on, as you're actually required to just run throught a heated room with no protection. And it's a lot easier than Super's version of it obviously.
On another unrelated note, on my last Echoes playthrought, I discovered that, in dark temple grounds, you can actually get the sky temple key that's supposed to need the light suit(because there is an ultra-toxic gas that makes you lose health quickly despite the dark suit) without the light suit. I made with like 10 energy tanks I think, but you could probably do it with less.
Good video. Yes, I find that good Metroidvanias are all about giving players the illusion of freedom, while actually chaining them into a very small area. But I hadn't even realized just how much Super Metroid opens up in the second half.
Just one tiny gripe at 20:35
"Speedrunner techniques that aren't taught to you, like -- bomb jumping"
Aaaaactually... once you've completed the game, if you wait at the title, a demo will play. Many secret techniques are shown off there, including bomb jumping. The game does teach you that, in a very roundabout way, just like with the animals!
Mockball is probably a bug, though.
Hollow Knight, Prime, and Castlevania coming up? I can't take the anticipation!
This is a very very good video. The Points of No Return are never something I really noticed in Metroid, but you're totally correct in their efficiency and use. It's why a game like Hollow Knight (while still good), is a lot more daunting and overwhelming to explore, "dizzying" at some points, as you put it. Thank you so much for making this, it was very informative.
20:42 The game's Attract mode shows you how to do a few of the game's secret techniques: Bomb Jump, Power Bomb-Beam combos, and even the Crystal Flash. Great video overall, Mark! Looking forward to your breakdown of both SOTN and Hollow Knight.
Everyone's a critic, but few of them are actually critical. This is what sets you and KingK apart. Fantastic series, and awesome work!
This makes me want a boss keys of Environmental Station Alpha
This makes me want a Game called Environmental Station Alpha
But well, I think I should stick to Hollow Knight for now...
He talks about how much fun the grapple beam is. But it just pales in comparison to ESA's hookshot
I love just doing things outta order. And also I love randomizers of this game. The link to the past/super Metroid randomizer is one of my all time favorite gaming experiences.
Just played this, AM2R, and Zero Mission for the first time over the summer, so I’m really hyped for these episodes!
EDIT: Been meaning to get into Castlevania for a while now, so this might get more interesting now...
As long as you're aware of the differences between classic Castlevania and Metroidvania, you should be alright (if you're only looking for one of the two, I mean). They are vastly different in design and mechanics.
Before you play the "Metroidvania" Castlevania games, you should play the platformer Castlevania games, if only one, Super Castlevania 4. Even though I love Metroidvanias, the platformer Castlevania games are better in my opinion, they have great pacing and satisfying controls.
Overall the RPG side to the Castlevania games weakens the combat of what should just be action adventure games, but that said. I've only observed it, never actually played a Metroid style Castlevania game besides the Metroid games
I'd recommend Rondo of Blood over 4 any day, seeing as it even ties into Symphony of the Night. 4 is great, but it's by far the easiest of the classic games due to how overpowered the whip is.
Rondo, SC4, and Dracula's Curse are the best Classicvanias.
That was amazing. Shame you didn't talk about the opening scene, at the station, that served as a great tutorial, but..overall, lots of stuff I didn't realize before. I love your videos, Dude. Can't wait for the Prime series
I still really want you to do a hollow Knight episode.
i can't wait
Hasiumcreeper he clearly implied he’s going to in this video...
@@andrewericdavison I missed that. I also want to point out how much of an oxymoron the phrase "clearly implied" is.
Hasiumcreeper I couldn’t say “he said it” because he didn’t say “I’m doing Hollow Knight,” but he did say something like “which is something I’ll discuss in an episode later this season” while footage of Hollow Knight played. So...that’s what I meant, anyway. :P
@@andrewericdavison Thanks. I just thought it was funny funny that "clearly implied" was an oxymoron.
This is a great review of the normal order! I got so used to sequence breaks that I actually forgot how it had all unfolded the first time through. It was like a trip back in time to remember the particular sequence of backtracking. It was all stored in the back of my mind just waiting to be reactivated. Thank you!
Did you call the statue a Chorizo?
Torizo
+Mark Brown (Game Maker's Toolkit)
Chozo
@@DukeSR8 Name of the people, yes. Torizo is the name of the statues.
@@QrazyQuarian
Wrong, The Chozo are the bird people, the statues that you get items from are Chozo Offering Statues, and a Torizo is an evil Chozo Statue.
Chozo is the people, Torizo is the statue, and Chorizo is the delicious pork sausage loved by both.
That feeling when you watch what is becoming one of your favorite episodes and then having the end confirm that the next episode will also be a favorite.
It's a good time to be a Castlevania fan.
"You can fight Spore Spawn, the first miniboss in the game"
Torizo: "Am I a joke to you?"
But spore spawn is the secret boss
@@robotsturm6488 I'm pretty sure most would find him on a first playthrough as the super missile is required to reach kraid so yeah what a secret
Robot sturm plus the only way to get super Missiles without killing spore spawn is glitches which most people won't do
I think the developers had no idea you could skip spore spawn.
Excellent job as always Mark. I love seeing the dependency chart coming into Metroidvanias. Really interesting way to see how the world is designed from a boiled down perspective!
Great day whenever a new Boss Keys comes out. Now back into my cryogenic chamber I go to avoid the agonizing wait for the SotN episode.
Phenomenal video as always. You not only hit on the best parts of Super that make so many people love it as well as what made me bounce off it the first time I went through. Great great job!
"despite what some people seem to think, I don't think linearity is always a bad thing" - refers to linearity disparagingly in every other video.
Did you even watch his video carefully? He didn't criticize linearity for no reason. For example he criticize zero mission linearity because it clearly show you where to go and you had only small path to truly explore. It didn't feel like you finding new secrets like super metroid but you just following a simple path. Super metroid always give you way forward in unique ways not in some similar way and one way forward. That's why linearity is bad in that case but super metroid's linearity in first pass is not guided with markers but guided you with careful design choices in quite a linear path actually. Linearity is not bad in this case.
@@HerMi.T I have to disagree with him on it being a bad thing in Zero Mission. The game may show you where to go, but it doesn't show you how to get there. You have to figure that out for yourself.
@@Orange_Swirl true but their is more problems in zero mission if you are playing casually. First you are not going to explore the map to find right path to progress further. Which is dependent on you that you like that or not because it is frustrating to explore whole map to find a single path. Which is not really a problem because after you get power bomb. Super metroid stops trapping you in one place and let you explore whole map. It doesn't become boring because there is many places to use your powerups and find many different secrets. It is good and all. It males exploring less of a chore and more of a adventure and when you find a way forward. You feel like discovering some new secrets and this time it is not some items but a new path. But super metroid still has a one problem. Because there is only one way forward and others are optional secrets. You would going to be stuck if you didn't able to figure out where is the way forward. Non linear world will make you progress in different places for different bosses at same time. For example you didn't able to figure out how to reach crocomire but you are able to find draygon's lair. That's the sense of discovery which is present in super metroid but in smaller scale. Because you wil going to find some new items ir missiles but that's all. The reason why i talked about super metroid to give a idea. Just like furst half of super metroid. Zero mission always traps in one place. So you had only one way to explore and find the way forward. Casual player didn't going to experiment because they know their is way forward in that direction. But the biggest problem of zero mission is that it only opens a little bit after getting a powerups means you have to use it in that trapped area and only in one path which feels like a chore. Even though you had to find way forward. It is not really a challenge because you had to just use it one place in small area to find way forward which also doesn't feel like you are opening a new area. It is quite similar to metroid fusion actually. Their is also a time when fusion stops you giving obvious waypoint and even waypoint in general. Then you have to a find a secrets place or secret oath to use your new powerups to open a new area but even unlike fusion, zero mission is even more handholding. When fusion does this things some time? There is a quite a huge chunck of map is open. Wo you had to actually explore to find bew path or you had to remember it from your previous visit. But zero mission only opens a one path when you get powerups and you had to just follow that one path to find new obstacles and powerups. It is not feel like exploring but more likefollow a waypoint even though waypoint is not clear. World design is very guided just like the first part of super metroid. Super metroid didn't have any waypoint but it's first part is very guided and it's opens in huge chunk in second part to make you explore yourself. Zero mission never reach that part.
With all things said, I didn't mean zero mission is a bad game but for a newcomer as well as a player who didn't explore much, it would be pretty linear game but those who want to break these sequence and reach every place without guidance. They can easily do that. The real problem of maek against zero mission is not that hus criticisms is wrong but his view on sequence breaking of zero mission is wrong. He said 99% people will miss those hidden paths which is wrong because zero mission is designed in a way which make you pretty tiring follow just waypoints or actually oaths only instead of exploring yourself. And just like you said it make you find your path yourself which will even going to make you find new paths but for these you need to explore every room and it's walk with your bombs and weapons or you had to use wall jumping or bomb jumping to find new secret path. Sequence breaking is easily also possible in super Metroid not jyst in smaller scale but in bigger scale like fighting rudley first or second. But it is very difficult in super Metroid. Even though fighting is not very difficult if you decided to fight phantoon but for this also you had to perform a perfect shinespark which will make you fly throughout the west ocean as well as moat to reach phantoon first. It is so difficult that casual player will not going to do this even though they knew that it is possible. It means 90% percent will not going to do this. But finding hidden path in zero Mission is not very difficult. It is dependent on your own exploration that you are able to find it or not and sometimes game even hints you about hidden paths. And game also has low percent run challenge which will also make you explore and find this hidden paths. Sequence breaking is internal part of zero mission unlike any Metroid. (Yeah super Metroid also make it internal path but it wants skill to truly sequence break. It want a high skill level to sequence break and sometimes even glitches especially in reverse boss order in maridia. You have to perform some glitches like clipping a fake wall to reach other side by using a mochtroid.the reason i said that it need high skill level because there are many places where you can reach with wall jump but developers always make a ledge in that place to hinder your wall jump. Developers knew that you can still reach that place with wall jump but you need mastery in it to jump from a ledge.)
This is one of those cases where you want that the video in youtube is like a couple of months old, so you can jump right into the next video and binge watch it! Really cool video of one of my most beloved games of all time, with the promise of making the next game about my other beloved games of all time SotN!
If you promise to make the same with Metal Gear, sir you got a loyal fan!
Having recently played "A Link to the Super Metroid" (an ALttP/Super Metroid crossover randomizer), I've gained an increased appreciation for Super Metroid... but even more so for Metroid Fusion.
I still maintain that Super Metroid has the best overall level design and progression of all 2D Metroid games, and that it would benefit greatly from a control scheme like that in Fusion and Zero Mission, but I've definitely found flaws I didn't think about when I originally played the game that had clearly been rectified in the game. You mention a few of them in this video.
1) Metroid Fusion's level design doesn't waste your time as much as Super Metroid's. Super has a fair number of Super Missile gates that only open from one side and close again once you leave the room, as mentioned Norfair has only one exit back up to Brinstar and Crateria, and frankly I really miss the convenient Screw Attack and Speed Booster corridors that connected all the sectors in Metroid Fusion.
2) Super Metroid's Space Jump is a frustrating mess. For a late-game power-up that is supposed to help you explore hard-to-reach areas and pick up those final collectibles, the Space Jump is extremely finicky when it comes to the timing of the jumps. Screw up the timing of a jump when you've almost reached the top of a shaft? Have fun falling all the way back down again, because there's no way to get that power going again until you've hit solid ground! (Similarly, horizontal shinesparks are weirdly difficult to pull off compared to Fusion/ZM?)
Complaints aside, though, I love the game's environments (including subtle stuff like that the green bubbles that cover an area in Norfair leak through the doors in surrounding rooms), I love how progression works in the game (although you completely bypass the normal progression when you're playing randomized), I love the music and sound design, and I'm saddened that games aren't made more like Super Metroid was in the present day.
it is possible to restart the space jump, and the timing is not that bad - just don't hit it again while you're rising, and before you're in complete freefall. For horiz shine spark hit and hold your jump from a standing position (or just not running), then immediately press left or right depending on your facing.
as far as super missle gates go, I'm pretty sure there's only like 2 that matter - the rest are in their own little areas usually next to power ups (IE grapple beam area) to keep you from just walking to the power up.
You are meant to collect wave beam on your second pass through that area (third time in norfair overall), which would be the third time you'd be blocked by the brinstar blue gate. After acquiring the grapple beam you should be exploring the right side of norfair to get the wave beam. I agree though, the wave beam should have been earlier, more on your path, and better connections to norfair should have been made available, like maybe through the rear of the wrecked ship.
JediMB.net Thank you for giving Metroid Fusion a little credit. In fact, I would love to see a 2D Metroid that would be a mix of Super and Fusion: basically, the level design and overall length of Super with Fusion's sci-fi horror ambiance, strong story progression and character development. Imagine having the possibility to randomly encounter a SA-X type of enemy in any room while exploring a Super Metroid type of open environment.
There's some romhacks for Super Metroid that incorporate later improvements. "Control Freak" for modernized controls and "GBA Style" for entirely different physics.
Metroid Fusion(and Zero Mission) definitely waste your time quite a bit. Why do I have to repeat the same speed booster puzzle just to get deeper into Sector 5? Why is there only one elevator for every sector? Why do I have to powerbomb the everliving fuck out of every single room just to find that last energy tank?
If there is one thing I will forever love about this series Mr. Brown, is how you always live up to my thoughts and expectations of whatever next game you cover.
Halfway throughout this epsode I thought to myself, "Man it'd be cool if he decided to go over Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night, it is where the Vania comes from in Metroidvania after all, he most likely won't though, seems to want to focus on Metroid." And then whaddya know, oh my god he's gonna cover it in the next episode! You did this at the end of season 1 when you showed you'd go over metroid and dark souls, and now you do it again, you sure do know how to make me happy Mr. Brown, I must say you have excellent taste haha. I look forward to whatever surprises you have in the future after the Symhphony episode as well :)
Can't wait for the Metroid Dread version of this video.
That’s easy, a decent game but too linear to be a Metroid-Vania. Dread waaaaay over used the “one way path” mechanic so much that it did not feel like exploring, but rather just always pushing forward
dude you couldn't have explained this game any better. It is my favorite game of all time. I didn't get to play it until my early 20s because I never had it as a kid. But ya I have never been so lost in a game before. Like playing all day for literal days trying different shit. The one that really got me was the tube you have to power bomb to get to maridia. Keep doing what you're doing Mark, these are exceptionally well done.
When season one ended, I hoped so hard that Mark would pivot to Metroid. Now, he's hinted at a Hollow Knight video, AND the next one is gonna be on Symphony of the Night?? All my dreams are coming true ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you for this in-depth video! I've been studying Super Metroid recently, and I appreciate having so many lessons it offers in a concise single video.
I love you mark
In a creepy way
;)
Creepy boi
creppy boi
Lol
Creepy boi
I love it when you end lil' explanation sentences with a brief pause, followed by one word, a little adjective or compliment.
It makes me want you as a companion robot in everyday life. Then you could serve me breakfast and say: "And now, after having taken a shortcut to the kitchen and explored the area, I managed to find the eggs and toast, and then made my way back here around the other side of the table in the hallway, to now serve them to you. *_T a s t y ._* "
"Smphony of the Night" next? Never heard of it...
... Naah, just kdding! I'm so fuckin' interested in this!! Can't wait!
This was a great video, thanks for making it! After years of knowing many of the sequence breaks it was hard to look at Super Metroid from a fresh set of eyes, and this reinvigorated my appreciation for its structure and everything it nails. I think some of the negative points are overblown (like if I remember right that wall you walk through is pretty obvious in the context of the nearby rooms, and also optional), but it's great that you mentioned them, since no game is perfect. This video would definitely be on my "must watch" list for anyone interested in creating a Metroidvania game, not to mention this series as a whole!
19:28 Zoast is laughing.
Thanks for this video. There is a lot of videos analyzing this classic, but this is the best and most analytical so far. And props for not spoiling the ending for n00bs who have yet to play this one. There has been a lot of new very high quality metroidvanias during the past few years (Guacamelee!, Ori and the blind forest, Hollow Knight..) so I would think a lot of people are curious about the origins of the genre - and Super Metroid is of course pretty much the most important, acclaimed and influencial one. Like Mark well put it "mission complete, job done, genre defined"
Please do one on Axiom Verge and La-Mulana.
"It wasn't a huge hit at the time"
I was only a child when it came out, but where I lived in California, it was the most important videos game for quite some time.
Can’t wait for the Hollow Knight video. Just killed Nightmare King Grimm and I love it
15:24 I agree. The glass tube is where I initially got lost as a kid and gave up.
16:49 is, where most players get lost - that damn wall !
Why "lost"? Did you need to go there? I played the game only once and I remeber this section to be totally optionnal.
Francis Thompson at some point you got to go there, but if you play this first time you don't get the idea to go through the wall because the xRay scanner doesn't show that you can go there. it is the first moment, where you just have to guess and run into the wall...
That area is heavily signposted. First of all, you're locked in a small area because the lava rose behind you. You'll have defeated Ridley before you have any reason to go through that wall, because you only need it to escape. The platform next to the wall seems out of place because you wouldn't need to stand on it to get anywhere. The door to the right leads to a dead end with a power up just out of your reach, which encourages you to start sniffing around for secrets. And you know that you need to be heading up and to the left because you're at the bottom right of everywhere you've explored before. And you've defeated every boss, so you really want to get to Tourian. Oh and you've already walked through 2 other walls recently that were more heavily signposted by being in the middle of a statue(rock formation?)'s mouth
11:49 I think I have never come far enough to hear this music... Although I am too young (2001) to have been playing this masterpiece in the same time you all did, so you've got that advantage of exploring and figuring out Super Metroid together, it's probably more fun to explore by myself anyway! :)
13:52 "The next step is to kill Crocomire, who has the most metal death in all video games" Absolutely amazing.
Man, that was really well laid out. I love the charts too, what a good way to visualize it. Even loving this game since childhood, this helps put a finger on some of the reasons. Thanks for posting this!
I have played quite a fair bit of Metroidvania games far before I played Super Metroid, and when I finally got around to within a year ago, I found that I didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped. I found the controls kind of clunky and slow a lot of the time, which caused me to die a lot, and there are many times I got lost because I had no direction, and the game likes to throw things at you where you have to find a secret, like you said with 15:25. I honestly wished I enjoyed it more, while I understand that it was revolutionary for its time, newer games seem to understand what makes the genre work much more, Ori and the Blind Forest for example both nails the controls and exploration. After watching this video, I will say that I understand it somewhat more now, but I still find it daunting when I look at the map and have no idea where I am or where to go, that is something I don't fear anymore in other games where I was constantly lost, yet find my way eventually, so that speaks volumes for how I feel about this game.
You can completely rebind the controls in the main menu. Any slowness in the controls is just a matter of player skill. If you watch high-level players, you'll see the level of precision and responsiveness in the controls is astounding.
@@Lysander4 Has nothing to do with the button mapping, and I don't see how a person who had never played the game VS a pro speedrunner is relevant.
it's relevant to your comment about clunkiness. You think/feel it's clunky because you've played it very little. after playing even a second time through it's incomparable in the difference of your starting skill to your new skill. The game offers you a lot of ways to control your motion, and understanding how you move is key to moving well.
could all of your movement options be explained better? Yes, probably. A clunky game, it does not make. Look at something like Super mario sunshine - tons of movement options. Do you know how to really move well after 1 playthrough? no, not really. Do they explain all your options? no. That doesn't mean it's clunky either.
Like the other commenter said, it is a counter-argument to your criticism that the controls were clunky and slow a lot of the time. The controls enable a variety of precise movement options which, in combination with the game's other mechanics, give the player of a lot of freedom both in exploration and in combat.
"Ori and the Blind Forest for example both nails the controls and exploration"
How does it do that when you can never explore anything but the intended, direct path?
This isn't exploration, it's a guided tour. If you can't get lost, you're not exploring.
I played this game on SNES far before there was any internet on my city and everything I knew was what me and a friend of mine would exchange in information. Now I'm always anxious to finish a game and start another one, but by that time games weren't made so fast and it was hard to put our hands on them, so I felt really inclined to explore games in detail, but not anymore. I'm glad that people today, even with all the options and distractions, still dissecate games to a degree I would never do.
Zero mission stops the handholding pretty early in lol
7:20 I tell everyone in situations like thus; "Have you tried using all of the buttons in combination with the D-Pad?"
You should've mentioned the intro sequence, before we land on Zebes. Samus boards that space colony and finds everyone dead and the power out, eventually coming to the room with the metroid and Ridley. Then the mad rush back to the elevator!
I loved the video though and really appreciate your content, keep it up!
Super Metroid into SotN next video?
Whoa now
I didn't know how to infinite bomb jump until I finally learned it... from Super Metroid. It just popped up in the demonstrations from the title screen and I finally could see/understand the best way to time it. Love that little push from the devs themselves to go back into the game and have a new experience after finishing it.
Analyses of SotN, Prime, and likely Hollow Knight sound definitely exciting. However, the analysis I'm personally holding hope out for the most is La-Mulana.
Namely, I feel like that game is woefully underanalyzed for something that represents such an unusual extreme in the genre. To me it seems to operate on a completely different paradigm of design from the rest of the genre: other games think about avoiding the "stuck and frustrated" scenario with varying degrees of subtlety, while La-Mulana builds itself so that this scenario is practically inevitable, in a manner which has to be deliberate.
Unfortunately I suspect my hope is in vain, but I still don't want to let go of it.
Thank you for the -as usual- awesome work you’ve done. Super Metroid still is one of the most influancial game I’ve played, I still cannot believe how the designers crafted such a masterpiece at that time. They were real games pionneers.