Straight talk about chassis extensions for your 4X4 ute | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
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I’m getting an extension just listening to John’s explanation.
🤨
30mm extension?
@@halmitty3800 definetly not a 400mm extension.
"... just give me one of everything, I'll tell you when to stop!"
Beautifully put John, made me laugh!
I have a 97 80 series landcruiser that has been chopped and stretched by 900mm. The chassis used a second chassis to obtain the stretch. The cut is a z cut and welded. Has about 8mm plates welded over every vertical welder an a extra square stiffening 50mm square bar welded underneath.
Has now a 2400mm tray. I never got the stretch done, I went looking for one. The only difficulty that I encounter is parking, turn radius and occasionally bellowing out when 4wding. Otherwise I love it. Mostly its a pleasure to drive, much smoother over bumps and potholes. Still carries 6 people and with the carry racks can cart stuff up to 9 meter lengths. Carries my slide on camper with no issues. Would take a lot for me to sell it. Had plenty of offers. Col
What was he tare before and after, Col?
I had my 2012 Ford Ranger stretched 350mm and fitted space cab tub. It was done by Ultimate stretches in Sydney.
It was the best decision I ever made with that Ute ! It improved the vehicle so much for weight handling and towing.
I drove two Rangers (one 2014, one 2016) prior to purchasing my current vehicle, as this was an option I was considering. Both handled significantly worse than any other Ranger I'd driven. Both owners agreed with me, but both felt their vehicle towed better than standard. Coupled with the potential for warranty issues (I was given a very vague reply from Ford, indicating a number of components were possibly affected) and the lowered carrying capacity (60-100kg, depending upon structure and carrying area, including GVM upgrade) had me deciding against the idea. Hope yours continues to work out well for you.
Back in the 70’s & 80’s ambulances were built on extended chassis. Vehicles were purchased as a “cab chassis” then nine inches (225 cm) was added. You could see where as a Z shaped cut was used at both ends. I never considered the changes to vehicle dynamics before watching this vid. Back then we had “ambos” who drove race cars - some were champions. I worked with them for twenty years and they drove those F100 351 Cleveland with four barrel Hollys very fast with no structural failures.
I used to have a ex- ambo '76 Fdog 351 Cleveland 4- barrel as a work truck. That big heavy brick would pull just under 200km/h. On a race track of course.
Yep that was my job when I was an apprentice👍
@@bogged2theeyeballs695 we used to flip the cover on the air cleaner to create an air gap. That made the Hollys roar as you punched down on the gas. People would stare. They were very fast and stable vehicles. Very fuel hungry but very fast. I once did 205 Kms in 85 mins and used 98 litres of fuel - that’s a 2 litre juice bottle in less than 2 mins.
@@rossdoddridge4748 Haha. Yes they would pass almost anything except the servo.
I modified the exhaust so it had only one tiny muffler on a 2 into 1 system that exited just after my drivers door. Free flowing and loud, just the way I liked it and back when you could get away with things like that.
Everyone would hear me coming and most of the time they would get out of the way, no lights and sirens needed.
I regret selling it.
Number 4 reactor John. You of all people should know that.
If you need a ute, buy a ute. If you need a truck, buy a truck. It's really that simple.
What if you own a ute but you always need to move things that are 300mm longer than will fit?
@@fredmercury1314 You need a truck!
This is a really popular thing being done these days, I work at a driveshaft shop and all sorts of utes like tritons, Hiluxes and especially rangers get the shafts extended but 300mm sometimes 600mm
Boilermaker/coded welder hear I’ve see some of these chassis extension and I’m really not sure I’d let some guy who couldn’t spell welder yesterday weld up my chassis today.
Especially these days with different composition alloys and high tensile steel chassis components. I think on the 300 series the inner is a different material to the outer chassis good luck not contaminating the weld pool with the wrong consumable or procedure. Never mind when it snaps at dingo piss creek some exhaust guy will just weld it up for a slab of piss.
Speaking of someone who can’t spell. You may need to read what you wrote again mate.
Once when living in US in 60s owned a 450cuin Lincoln Continental that got 6 mpg. It was eighteen feet long so very easy to find in car parks because it stuck out well past the chevys and studiebakers. And yes drove great in a straight line.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for you". I put about a nine inch chassis extension on a friend of mine's Jeep back in the eighties to improve his "mud racing performance" after moving his front axle forward several times and having "run out of rail" for his front spring shackles. It was put on the front end of the frame and performed right well, kept him in the money for another six months or so. I can't imagine putting one in the middle of the frame where it would be subject to the greatest stress possible.
I had my 99 triton chassis extended 800 mm this allowed for an 8 x 6 tray
It was absolutely a fantastic thing made the triton handle better
Cost $4500 but that was 22 years ago
Even off road it was better as I didn’t get any shake in the soft sand
And was done through the dealer so no warranty issues
Done by t&l engineering and did look amazing
Well it looked the proper proportions
Biggest surprise is that you have a '99 Triton that still drives.
Mitsubishi wouldn’t have anything to do with warranty with the extension, it would’ve been up to the dealer to chase the engineers for any warranty compensation issues
Many moons ago I bought a 4 year old VS commodore V6 ute that was an ex ambulance. It had a 600mm extension in the middle done by Jakab in Tamworth. It was a fantastic ute. Just because it was longer didn't mean I was stupid enough to overload it but you could fit heaps in it/ on it. As a electrician ute it was fantastic.
When I first started watching your videos I didn’t like you, but now I do.
If memory serves me correctly, JMACX for example, uses bolted connections with significant joint overlap. The big thing is, that chassis extensions have traditionally been done to heavy vehicles along with full design/certification by a registered transport engineer.
A friend of mine got a pickup (ute) chassis extension, instead of extending the wiring, brake pipes and driveline he added a 3rd axle (non driven) and it was pretty well done. Looked factory spec and made heads turn.
You can get vans like that. There's the chassis vans that have a bolt on chassis at the back and you can have them with regular fwd and 2 dummy axles at the rear. Also legal which is a bonus.
5:10 "It looks amazing"
Come on John, it sounds like they know their audience perfectly.
The voice you do when you read out the letters makes me laugh every time. It's funny because it's true.
A bloke I know got the extension done on his dual cab landcruiser with a free rolling second Axle he said was worth every cent and didn't change it off road for the worse in his opinion still gets down sundown no problem he waited until the warranty was up before the upgrade
Must’ve got lucky off-road thus far. Having a lazy axle on the rear leaves them open to being dry bogged on rear axle. Happened to me in a truck. Although a Landcruiser would be easier to get unstuck than 22t of truck.
Just shits me that ute and other commercial vehicles are outside the crash regulations for passenger cars.
Especially when the biggest sellers in this market are four door utes.
Back in the 80's and 90's I did a number of chassis extentionsions to ford transits and also building low loader decks on at the same time for a car dealer. Never had any problems with them other than turning circle being larger, but that was no worse than trucks of similar length but weighing far more. I have considered taking 200 or 300 mm of the back overhang of my L200 and adding the same amount in the middle when the warranty expires so that it rides and tows better and I can use the same tray/buck. I think the only reason Mitsubishi make them as they are is so they can use use exactly the same drive train as used in the Shogun/ Pajero.
So basically just moving the axle back 300mm.
@@davidjulian8536 Yes that way the load is better distributed between the axles.
Years ago I worked with a company that did chassis extensions.
We would add about a meter in the middle and put another few feet in the rear and moved driving position forward.
We did this to an International truck and turned it into a bus. Yes it was a ton of work. Oh and plates.
Not sure if I can name our company or who bought the buses.
“Light bar down below, spotties up high!” I spat my coffee out John!🤣 Thanks for a Monday laugh mate.👍🏼
I avoided crew cabs back when I bought my king cab because the tubs were too short to be useful for me. I got excited when I saw the T60 mega tub, finally a manufacturer could see the shortcomings of crew cabs.
Longer bed for hauling 8' wood. It's going to require helper springs and careful weight distribution. Extend the wheelbase and strengthen the frame for payload and towing stability. Some 1/2 ton pickups have an 8' bed from the factory. We call em work trucks and they are an endangered species on Toyota lots. (USA) But they can be ordered still.
240cm bed is standard on the cheapest single cab utes here. I wouldn't call it extended unless it was a dual cab
Used to work at a shop that did some "extensions" in the body shop. But it would not have been a light duty vehicle, as it was the suspension, axles, wheels, transmission, etc all was looked at and much upgraded to stretch the vehicle. Stretching a one ton pickup and adding another or 2 more rows of seats and doors would often not need as much done to the suspension but they came with a large payload you could add to the truck and still be in payload spec. Stretching a compact truck like your UTes I would think a frame and running gear from a heavy 3/4 ton truck would get you a safe stretch.
Two words come to mind: scrub radius.
Regarding warranty, I'm sure that John is aware that, since the influx of go-fast bits fitted to Commodores at Holden dealers, it's been well-established that the warranty implications of having your new car modified only extend to the components that are affected by the changes. If the GVM is unchanged, the warranty on driveline components (sans new tailshaft) will remain, as will coverage for electronics untouched by the extension, interior bits and bobs, and cosmetic features such as paint, chrome, etc.
Your warranty does not go up in smoke the second you lay a spanner (or, indeed, plasma cutter) on the car.
just make sure they pull the battery before they use that plasma and ground the chassis to earth as well as the work ground..lmao
VW has factory approved chassis extending options that recalibrates the stability control and brakes for the extra length and you still keep your 5 year unlimited km warranty.
the Amarok was designed to be stretched and offer higher GVM.
have a look underneath one and you'll see the chassis is twice the size of a hilux
@@javic1979 irrelevant. I'm talking about Australian Consumer Law, not the corporate edicts of literally the most evil company on the face of the planet.
I don't think the different length ford F series trucks in the states have any different steering parts and they all work fine.
@@geepuller1 the geometry of the steering is good, no scrubbing, it just needs more room to turn around.
eg instead of 11m it would require 12.5m to turn around in on the XXL
A while back I saw a V8 LandCruiser ute that had been stretched and another axle added to the back. And said axle was driven! It was a 6X6! He had a trailer behind it full of his wares and probably the tray too, can't remember. And what was he loaded up with you ask? Insulation batts !! It was an insulation business. I was laughing so hard I very nearly wet myself.
I would have thought that on something like a Triton with its 3m wheelbase, having the rear axle located almost in front of the load area, a chassis extension to centre the axle under the load would be beneficial.
the best would be add a 600mm extension up front and cut 250 off the rear end
@@javic1979 That's true, there's nothing saying you have to leave the overhang there, as long as the suspension mounts are intact.
Or just don’t buy a triton???
@@tareskisloki8579 the earlier Triton had a shorter overhang so it makes sense to extend the wheelbase and cut the rear back.
but its only a narrow body ute 1815mm.
A more practical option is a amarok because its a wide body 1950mm
or if you have the big dollars the F150 is 2007mm wide.
Also important note is both the ford F150 and VW Amarok both have the same rear suspension setup having very long springs mounted beside the chassis rail for stability and ride comfort unlike the other uts where the springs are mounted under the chassis.
next time you see a F150 or amarok have a look at the chassis and how the springs sit
@@javic1979 I've seen that done a couple of times. The tray then sits evenly over the rear axle, and less pendulum effect if towing as towball is now closer to rear axle.
I suggest if you really need to extend your chassis/ or do a GVM upgrade, then you have more than likely purchased the wrong vehicle. They are all just light duty utes anyway.
this is what happens when you mix bongs & americana together. getting shivers down my spine at the mere thought
Hello John. Great video as always but on this occasion I think you picked the wrong target.
Limitless seem to be top notch in terms of what they do. A better target IMO might have been the repair of chassis frames when their strength and redundancy has passed critical limits, leaving aside the competency of the welder.
In the UK as an aside the electricity repair companies bought heaps of 110 Defenders and when fitted with a table to support a boom lift the chassis rountinely failed due to metal fatigue. The table stopped the frame from flexing across its length and instead flexed only in the middle.
I don't think he is targeting that company, it's just one he found.
I agree. I think John is obviously not a 4wd enthusiast. He needs to contact someone like DMW and sit down and go through the process. He's just realistically wrong this time. Just like his catch can analyse.
@@justinbreadmore64 And his idea of the operation of a torque converter, he has that fucked up too.
He's not having a go at Limitless, he's gathered the information from them and is using that information as a basis to examine the implications.
He's talking about the effects on the vehicle rather than the quality of the work of this particular company. Things like physics and regulations which are independent of who does the work or how well.
Why wouldn't you buy a light truck that has the right length bed for what ever you do?
Comfort, 4x4, highway speed. Probably a better idea just to buy an American truck if you have the funds.
@@geepuller1
Doesn't iveco make a 4x4 dual cab.
True but that’s common sense.
@@Robert-cu9bm they want something half reliable, he ce the daily is not an option
So uncool mate
not sure I agree with the great ones sentiments but as always respect his superior logic, bring back the one tonne ute!
I did a 23mm chassis extension, night and day difference really. Cost me $13000 but it handles like a dream.
23mm u shure dino
Must be 23 inches!
Me too. I put an exhaust tip on!
2 cm would make a huge difference yes
@@mahcooharper9577 My triton does 9s on the quarter mile now, huge difference
Minus 273* C. Lovely reference.
You didn’t mention adding another Axle, I prefer Chanel inserts riveted with 20 mm solid steel Rivets andI think that’s the ADR preference over welding as it’s stronger. The idler axel allows for your weight increase and length of extension. Bends aren’t such an issue in W.A. John the bulk of the roads are horribly flat and so a six wheeler 4WD Mitzi works but I prefer the Land Cruiser with that set up. It’s a superior base to start with ….
And adding a Chanel insert, makes it smell nice and expensive too.
It's like any other sort of extension surgery... down there. It might look more impressive, but how useful is it really?
Cadogan just dropping some physics in mix 😂
Well you can put more mass in the tray without the gvm upgrade especially for a dual can because the weight sits between the wheels instead of canterlevered behind the rear axel.
Not to mention the more likely to bend the chassis over the rough wouptydoo ruts in Australia John.
Those wooptydos (washboard roads) are a pain eh.....
break Opel Commodores in half at the firewall they do....
Stretching the ladder frame is fine, as with all things, if its done properly. Personally I think manufacturers of double cab utes should offer longer versions from the factory because I find the trays of mid size dual cab utes of the kind typically sold in Australia are severely compromised in the size of the objects you can carry. It's not so much the weight capacity that's the issue, its the dimensions.
My worry is you're not parking that in a regular parking space anymore and it's still a 3.5 ton vehicle. You're gonna suffer like a truck and tow like a ute. Just get a truck!
I understand that most, if not all, Australian bus manufacturers bring the rolling bus chassis in from overseas in 20 foot containers then cut them and extend to the required length. It is obviously a well known science.
Payload is certainly an issue.
UK 2014 Transit 350 Flatty with 600mm extension reduced the 1200Kg payload to 820 ...
Try getting a 1 ton pallet on any double/crewy you end up illuminating the moon with your lights, extension will increase your capacity if you are hauling anything but lead ingots because you'll be able to get it between the axles.
Back when you were saying that Holden was a dead duck, I had the incorrect belief that here in Arse-Trailer, we'd start getting Chevrolet and GMC equivalents of the Colorado. On their websites, they had twin cab variants with longer chassis from the factory, that had what looked like a full size single cab tray on the back! Maybe there's a market for importing them and converting to RHD; oh, that's right, doubles the price, doesn't it Ram / Chev trucks Australia .........
you have perfect described the Dingo Piss Creek ultimate wedding stretched limo 🤣
You failed to mention the variety of mostly double cabs that ended up with bent chassis having carried removable camper van facilities. I read about a Land Cruiser bending its chassis over the rear axle having fitted an after-market rear bumper with two spare wheels fitted. Granted, it probably jumped a small hill, dune top, or traffic calming speed bump.
I'd really like to hear John's comment on 79 wheel track correction.
Makes you wonder about the steering geometry accuracy with a longer wheelbase even worse compounded with a lift kit . These Ute's sometimes break in half just behind the cab if heavy loads are rear of the rear axle centre. My old work ute a rodeo king cab with a fairly heavy body biased to the rear of the axle broke its back going over a speed hump in a shopping centre . It opened my eyes to just how important weight bias at the rear of King cab and dual cab utes really is and how constant forces can create metal fatigue at that point. Not sure if that issue gets worse on a chassis extension just hope they do a good job welding the chassis as its in a high metal fatigue region .
My understanding is that the wheels being further back helps prevent chassis bending
the rodao has a tiny chassis, the old man has a tipper on his 2000 single cab and its bent the chassis over the rear axil even though the tray has its own sub frame over the whole rear end.
the chassis on my amarok is more than 3 times the size and has factory approved chassis extensions that will keep the 5 year unlimited warranty and it also reprograms the stability control and brakes
@@jamesmcmillan2656 it depends on the design, some land cruisers move the wheels back a little. the vw amarok the rear is unchanged but extra length is added under the cab
Would the new welding stand up to the rough tracks in the Outback?
That would depend on who welds it.
There is an error in the Auto Expert report in that all electrical / mechanical extensions do not require additional work, this can be done now by Bluetooth, via the standard infoentertainment unit or via iphone. Google Android not yet available (vehicles post MY2000). Bluetooth also allows more flexibility for driveshaft in server off-road conditions via increased angles allowed in articulation points. Pro Tip there will be implications in both Warranty and Insurance situations. But Jeeze it looks good hey and that floating tail shaft?
I wonder if the metal used in the extension is of the same as the original chassis
Interested to know your thoughts on the high number of Victorian Emergency Services vehicles off the road with cracks in their chassis.
Does this point to them being overloaded with too much equipment?
Have manufacturers ever offered stretched versions of stock utes? Didn’t Holden(sniff) offer one ton tray beds with double axle (6 wheel vehicles).
VW has a fully approved extended XL and XXL options for the amarok.
can be done on new and old models and if you still have warranty remaining the balance is carried over.
it was built to be extended hence the extra size and weight of the ute.
the cracking could be many different things like no flex in the tray or body.
isuzu has body cracking issues in the front end
If your going to load a triton up heavy and tour around Australia, a 300 extension and gvm suspension upgrade is the go. Or if you are loading it up and towing at highway speeds yes.
If you go on a few beach trips and tow a camper trailer nah
'Arrrrgh, she'll be right mate' and 'shut up and take my money' all in one throbbing impulse buy😮
Approved!
I wonder if the dudes who fabricate stretch limousines to half the length of a footy field give any consideration to altering the angle of the steering arms so as to maintain Ackermann steering alignment/geometry?This requirement applies to a stretched ute chassis just the same but to a far lesser extent. It's an important consideration which I suspect might often, if not always, be neglected....
buggar, was thinking I'd stretch the triton by 500mm to stop the KTM falling off the back
Not worth it! There's a Triton owner in Vic who converted a camper trailer into a dog trailer! No GVM upgrade required and he's currently up at Cape York (Dingo Piss Creek) he says it all works like a charm.
You would hope Limitless have an accurate jig setup so the rear axle remains parallel to where it used to be. Would be a disaster if the rear wheels were pointing slightly left or right of target🤣 Just buy a light truck may be the better option🙃
John one thing you didn't mention is the steering geometry is all wrong when they extend the chassis. Is it a deal-breaker or dangerous ? Probably not, but when you see one turning in a carpark there is always scrubbing of the front tyres.
It is a popular modification to build hearses and ambulances, but these are generally done with the help and approval of the base vehicle manufacturer. Doing it wrong, might lead to needing one of the above. Perhaps the original enquirer needs help transporting a body?
"I'll tell yah when to stop!" 🤣
Thanks
Chassis extensions are best when coupled with an extra axle. A six wheel drive is worth doing for the benefit of off road capabilities, traction, additional load carrying without completely screwing your turning circle. A Chassis extension with the existing axle is pointless and will do nothing but make you regret doing it.
Chevy sold the colarado with the extra cab tray on the twin cab, but never had one in Australia, ldv do one now too, so you can always buy that....
Is that your watch, or a train locomotive headlight?
John, could you give us some insight into the aftermarket LED headlight upgrades everyone these days seems to be raving about these days. I've purchased a 2021 Triton with halogen projector low beam headlights and the factory globes were barely adequate, so I bought more expensive globes which was an improvement. I've been looking at LED upgrades to see if they would suitable but I'm told it's illegal. I do a lot of highway travelling and require to drive early mornings before sunrise and routinely have to be on the lookout for kangaroos, wallabies and wombats. I travel under 100 kph to order to help avoid these animals, plus I'm not in any great hurry to get to work... so there's that! I use a LED light bar but find it's totally useless in foggy conditions due to the white light, and fog lights on my car barely do the trick... even though it's illegal to use them under normal driving conditions, yet the police never seem to care about that. Would the police really care if I were to upgrade to LED headlights as well? Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Regards, Gazza.
100% illegal. Please don't be another one of the arseholes on the road blinding the oncoming traffic 'cause i can see better. Do what you want to the high beam side (you have to turn those off for oncoming traffic anyway), but the low beams need to be left alone. Just dont do it. I have nearly had a head on due to losing all of my vision and losing all reference points for where my car was on the road once because of someone doing what you want to do. But yeah be that selfish prick 'cause the coppers wont ping you.
@@Gnrnrvids
It's more a matter of poor beam aim then the fault of LEDs themselves, assuming you installed quality LEDs that closely mimic the beam pattern of OE halogen bulbs. Plenty of cars run white lights OE with no issues. A projector beam pattern actually makes it even easier to avoid blinding incoming traffic, problem is, there's too many morons believing (erroneously) that adjusting the low beam higher than stock would actually improve visibility.
@@Gnrnrvids hear hear.
Thank you, this is one of my biggest peeves.
In saying that, I have installed dozens of sets in vehicles of which I have stated they are illegal and that every single recognized brand name clearly states for off road use only.
No one gives a flying F.
4X4's and especially trucks are bad for blinging on commers not necessarily because they may have LED or HID up grades, but they often have the biggest bad arse driving lights and they can't see the haze of low beam lights over the hill and suddenly blind you with the lot and while not expecting to have to dip they take a good second or three to finally cut to low beam.
By then it's too late, blinded by the lights you hope you are clear of danger.
And finally, when passed, you've lost your night vision for a long time.
It's downright dangerous, scary and inconsiderate
ESPECIALLY ON OUR DISGUSTING GREAT EASTERN HIGHWAY
Sorry, I just had to vent my opinion on the state of our main road
@@Gnrnrvids 100% agree mate, no argument from me. To be honest, the white light coming from the bright LEDs would have to be worse in foggy conditions... my high beams are still factory bulbs and the cut through the fog better than my large light bar due to the warmer white colour. LED upgrades just seem to be ignored by the police... maybe the insurance companies should take the lead and deem cars unroadworthy if aftermarket LEDs are found.
@@4G12 Dunno I've never installed any, just been a poor bugger in a low car having to deal with dickheads that fit LED's into vehicles that were never designed for them and as you say probably then go an adjust them higher due to the harsh cutoff. The worst guys are the dicks with 70 series who replace the H4a or the sealed beams with the whole new light assembly. Adjusting the light might have been what I saw yesterday with a Ford Ranger. The right hand light was blinding while the left one was not so bad., This was in the middle of the day too. Night time woudl have been insane. There is not one single after market LED setup that complies with
ADR's. Worst i have had was a guy that had fitted in a square type of LED light onto his oldish 4x4, possibly adjusted them up and then hitched up his caravan. It was on the old dookie road coming out of shepparton. Dead staright for many kilometres. He was on low beam and from about 4-5km down the road it was blinding. i thought he was a lot closer than he was initally and i thought he had his high beams up.Might have to fit an LED light bar on the sportscar so I can fight fire with fire. :D
Anywhooos - I absolutely love ALL the companies that do all of these weird and wonderful modifications as what else have we got when it comes to innovation , engineering, employment, ? We don’t really have a car industry anymore, thanks heaps to politicians and the nanny state that they have created … i have a bullbar on my truck and it’s their 100% for self defence😅 so go root your boot Aussie govt.
Love a stretched 4wd. Toughest looking tourers on the road
The ramp over angle decreases significantly hence the lift they offer.
My wife says I don't need an extension, though I'm definitely beyond warranty
This would have been a great collaboration with the 4WD 24-7 boys... Because most people that drop >20k on a lifestyle mod see value in it
If you lengthen the chassis between the wheels and leave the rear overhang the same, are you actually increasing the risk of chassis bending?
The rear over hanging leverage hasn't changed, but the distance from the rear axle pivot to the high mass of the engine has increased. Wouldn't this increase the force needed to rotate the chassis about the rear axle in the scenario of the heavy-trailer-spoon-drain event? I'm clearly not an engineer.
Basically, would the longer chassis mean the mass forward of the rear axle be more resistant to being rotated up when a high load is applied to the rear over hang? Does the front of the vehicle actually lift in such a scenario?
if you load the rear tray evenly on the extended model there is less risk of bending.
its different between models but the vw amarok has the extra added under the dual cab so the rear end is untouched.
the triton has a massive rear overhang so if towing it be better to get a longer extension but cut the rear end back
@@javic1979 your towbar connection is still to the rear of the axle. The tray load is over the rear axle, basically. The length of the chassis gives the engine a longer leverage to resist the rotation of the chassis about the rear axle with a down force on the towbar. Is the chassis going to handle the extra load?
Think of the chassis as a see-saw and the rear wheels as the fulcrum. If you have a person on one end that is sitting still (engine), and someone jumps on the other end (moving trailer loads), they may cause the sitting person to lift. Next, extend the end of the see-saw that the sitting person is on, the other guy jumps on the end the same as before, but the force is not enough to lift the sitting guy who has more leverage advantage now.
The force needs to go somewhere. The lever can't lift the end, so the load must be taken by the fulcrum, in this case it would be the axle connection. Can the chassis withstand this? Is this going to have a detrimental effect on the handling and performance? Probably not in normal daily driving which is what roadworthy compliance tests for but the off road applications are going to stress the vehicle much more.
@@rustymozzy If the chassis is engeneered to be strong enough then its not an issue.
most dual car utes the axil is at the back of the cab so any weight added to the tray is behind the axil.
adding 500mm of tray infront of the rear axil gives the driver the option to balance the load evenly over the axil.
the VW Amaroks rear springs are 1500mm long, the front of the spring mounts to the chassis 250mm under the cab and 300mm in from the outside edge of the rear bumper bar. the unly way to bend the chassis is to overload the ute so the bump rubber is just touching and hit a object or drive through a ditch that pushes the chassis hard onto the axil bending the chassis above the axil or towards the front. the force will most likely damage the axil as well.
some utes like the Nissan or triton will bend near the front spring mount as the weight isnt spread as far along the the rear chassis.
to extend they need extra chassis bracing if you want to retain the same net loads or to do a GVM upgrade
@@javic1979 your first word is exactly my point - if.
There are a few vr/vs stretched utes around, done for carpet layers I’m told, a more challenging job I’m sure.
They were done for the NSW Ambulance Service by Jaycab in Tamworth.
All the stretched commodore Ute's getting around were used to replace NSW Ambulance f150 and GMC vehicles.
There is more then a few of them around as NSW Amblunce operated a couple of thousand of them.
Intrestin listning
Not to many 4x4s out there that offer more than 2 wheel bases other than landrover defenders (old one)
I own a 130 double cab and have had a few 110s
130 tows better hadles weight in the tub beter as is forward of the back axil ( gvm is 3500 on the 130s or was in td5 era) but thats where the pluss end
U turn takes 3 footy feilds .more slugish to do an overtake should you ever find anyone slow enuf to pass and mpg is worse
That said for me as a work truck means get a 6ft bed and 6 seats for lads to get to work in
My son added 6''/150mm into his new Toyota 79 four door per-delievery --- only $6k he said. The reason being was something about better more even load spread over the back axle (??) . It does look and sounds good ; but then he couldn't get into Maccas drive through ; that's not a really bad thing :lol:
Yep; all this 4bee after-marketing "have to have" BS is just so out of hand it should be called criminal IMO .
The funny part is he spends so much time in the Bdouble/road train carting livestock to pay for it he does not really have time to drive it anywhere special too often. He has finally agreed with his old "ya know f-all" old man it's a good time sell it .
Not sure he will want to borrow my soon to be acquired Mahindra two door Pik Up (and likely 2wd) :lol: :lol:
Why not just but a 3.5T chassis cab van?
For $6000 AUD to get 300mm extension, I would rather just put a bigger bed on the truck and give it a 300mm extra overhang! After all, it would just be similar to loading the truck with the tailgate down.
Would be nice if the mod had readjusted Ackermann geometry...
Obviously - a (sub) 4.2T "upgrade" (for mums without MR) would make a vehicle such as this more "usable" - provided one doesn't mind anaemic performance at loaded config... Upgrade for that too no doubt.
yep, stepping up to a 4x4 truck can make more $$. - or cents depending on needs.
why would you mess with the steering?
@@petesmitt : because extending the wheelbase messes with it already, increasing rear wheel scrub.
@@kadmow extending the wheelbase also extends the turning circle but doesn't affect the steering geometry.
@@petesmitt Ackerman geometry is related to/affected by wheelbase. The outside wheel steering angle is different to the inside wheel steering angle. I doubt that many cars have true/literal Ackerman geometry, with it being tuned for road feel and handling considerations.
@@petesmitt : this is getting long, but - do you understand the Ackermann setup ??? changing wheelbase alters this geometry, as the rear axle is in a different position, cheers.
The original throw away line was focussed at half assed engineering insinuations (probably warranted truth be told)...
Assuming everything was done correctly , extend the chassis 600 or 900 & build a 6 wheeler with aditional lazy axal for better weight distribution. Otherwize , dont bother
Limitless Chassis did my 300mm extension & strengthening on a 2022 3.2L Ranger. Workmanship was absolutely outstanding.
It drives like a dream, handles well and (for my personal usage case) is one of the best mods I have made. Together with a pre-rego GVM/GCM upgrade it tows beautifully, is safe, legal and still far far far more cost effective than importing an American ute.
(And yes… it looks great too 😂)
It surprises me from the comments how many people like the idea of this type of modification. I have done a number of chassis extensions on various types of vehicles. It is not actually that difficult. The propshaft needs to be constructed in exactly the right materials. I have always strengthened the chassis at the same time (never believing the customer won't overload it). Sure it needs "type aproval" (UK)again not that difficult.
However for the kind of money you mention why not just buy a vehicle that is like it in the first place? Warranty and everything included. 4WD three pronged sprinter or transit come to mind, with whatever body type/ combination you wish.
If there was no such tax exemptions, I wonder how many of those chopped 200-300, chassis extensions and custom trays would exist if there wasn’t that many incentive
I used to do the chassis extensions on the F trucks for the ambulance service - it was 225mm extension - don’t think they did a gvm upgrade, so maybe they couldn’t pick up fat people , not sure.😂
But I also had a dual cab 79 series for a work Ute and if ever there was a dud design that screamed out for a chassis extension ( to try and get the axel under the load) that’s it. It totally useless , from the factory, for carrying any payload when stock.
Before the extension you need a space about the size of Tassie - to do a 3 point turn
After the extension you will require all of nsw …😂😂😂
But they go and go if you’ve got enough fuel😊
What about dual rear wheels, in line not side by side, single drive axle?
You mean a 6 wheeler. John will most likely say they are a bad idea. Best modification ever. Yes I have one. It is used for real work.
I think the steering should be modified for the longer wheelbase as well.
If you want a tray back camper, you need at least a king cab size tray (1800) and the number of king cab utes, especially above poverty pack grade is dwindling. I wish we had more factory options, cheaper American size tricks, but we just don't.
Buy an Isuzu or Hino light truck if you need tray and weight carrying for work. Easy.
@@Low760 no, because they're too tall to fit in any garage, and won't go into parking garages when you're out and about
John what's the hot tip for trying to extend.....*coughs....something else 👀
Gotta have a chassis extension on your FormWheelDrive, no one cares about a 4wds genuine capability only how they look on the way to Dingo Piss Creek or rather how it looks pretending they go to the DPC, love ya work John keep the bastards honest mate
Well, it's kinda silly you guys in Australia can't just buy full size American pickup trucks, they can be ordered with 8 ft bed with extended cab and 6.5 ft bed with crew cab. Super duty model are available with 8 ft bed crew cab, and even with dually rear axle.
The ute and pickup you buys in Australia are considered midsize here. As far as I'm concerned they are not as good for towing, carrying stuff and less comfortable and roomy. Main advantage is that they are easier to handle on a parking lot by far😅
We have the American shit box utes. They are 50% more to buy over a base model ute, they have petrol engines only, and use 13l/100 minimum, they don't fit in car parks, worse than our "mid size" utes that are 5.2m long already, so basically it's a big wank to buy one for most owners over buying a real truck that is shorter, has a Diesel motor and carries more load.
@@Low760Here they are actually the same price or cheaper except maybe for super duty/heavy duty models. The super duty models are available here with 6.7 liters diesel and even dual rear wheel axles. You can go from something with a v6 3.3 na with 750 kg payload and 3000kg towing capacity to something with 2800 kg payload and 16500 kg towing capacity with many options between those extremes.
As far as size goes, the crew cab can have a 5.5 ft, 6.5 ft or 8 ft bed depending on model. Or 6.5 ft to 8 ft bed for extended cab. All the regular cab are with 8 ft bed and are mostly sold for commercial applications.
The amount of options and configurations is just insane.
@@nicolasb565 if you're talking about a Chevy colarado, that is the size of our utes, Silverados, ram's, etc, they are closer to 6m long in any configuration you're talking about, 3500s longer usually, as far 16500 gvm in the f550/650 etc. My point is an Isuzu or Hino truck does that job at lower cost, shorter and safer given its only job is truck to carry things, not pose like an f250 or 2500 etc.
@@Low760 You do realize those cab over trucks are uncomfortable and bumpy and are meant for commercial use only. Here people who use those 2500 to 4500 trucks will use them at their farm or job but also use them as personal vehicle because why spend money on another vehicle when you already have one that does the job. Maybe the road and parking spots are bigger here I don't know. But here we don't have people lengthening their ute because they just buy full size trucks with the length they require.
Not to Mention reducing off road capability by reducing ramp over and departure angles plus decreasing turning circle. A truck like Iveco, Isuzu NPR or Canter 4x4 would be a better option
Should be ‘Speed Raptor’! Veloci Raptor would be a vector….What direction are you heading; L XL XXL? 😂
My chassis has extended over the years and there is absolutely no need for it my Doc tells me.
maybe time for a lift kit 🤣
I'm not a fan of the idea, I'm happy to work with what I've got
Would be interested what your insurance company would have to say in the event of an accident.
If it's engineered, legally registered and your insurance is notified, no problem.
Not a problem,. Mine is engineered.
The acronym geometry vehicle is affected and that is not taken into consideration
Dmw can prove it.
Body chops chassis extensions etc
😂
My 2006 duel cab hilux with front and rear bar work won’t fit length ways as it is in a standard carpark or car garage!
No thanks!
I would like to see the extended and loaded up utes get ANCAP tested for crash safety.
I’m also wondering why there are no available utes with a rear bulkhead door to extend the tray length when needed. also wondering why someone wouldn’t buy a larger vehicle like a Mercedes’ Sprinter instead.