@@psycholamborghini4828 You forgot the part where he completely decimates the Earth ground forces, says nothing, leaves Shepard half dead and quietly flies away.
The incel star child: "tHe CrEaTeD wIlL aLwAyS rEbEl AgAiNsT tHe CrEaToRs" The virgin harbinger: tHiS hUrTs YoU" The pussy slayer sovereign: Y O U E X I S T B E C A U S E W E A L L O W I T A N D Y O U W I L L E N D B E C A U S E W E D E M A N D I T
Sovereign was so cool because he was alone. He showed us what one Reaper was capable of, and left us wondering how many more are still waiting in the void.
Lead Poisoning 4 months ago "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it... and you will end because we demand it." ~ Sovereign to Shepard and his Squadmates regarding his objective.
It's all about personality and writing. Sovereign was one Reaper and was imposing and frightening. The Catalyst was all the Reapers and was a ridiculous illogical literal child with child logic.
Who said was "HE"? IT or THE prefix before the name would be more appropriate. Sovereign has no gender and is not countable. It may be a single or a multiple level of intelligences linked in a single unit. It is they. They are Legion, a not understandable concept for an organic livin individual.
@@zephyr8072 Catalyst turned in to a child because that shape was the only one that might connect and "control" the Shepard mind. It is clear that nightmares and attempts of indoctrination toward Shepard were tried. The last dialogue with the Catalyst might also be an attempt of indoctrination if you think about. Saren and Illusive man would had chosen Synthesis and Control. Both of them were quite sure of the possibility to survive by using those two options. Saren wanted to be enhanced by them, and was quite firm about the possibility of elevate the organic life to a new dimension of fusion. On the other hand Illusive man was all about control the reapers. But how the ancient machines could persuade intelligent minds as Saren and Illusive? Most probably with nightmares and manipulation of mind by tackling on their fears and weaknesses. Shepard weakness was losing friends and being responsible of civil losses. The catalyst shape is not a random thing.
*Killing a Reaper on Tuchanka* "Oh my God, Shepard is amazing." *Killing a Reaper on Rannoch* "Why did these things ever seem impressive, haha." *Reads Codex and realises that Sovereign is THIRTEEN times as big as either of those* "Oh. That's why."
Sovereign was a Capital Reaper, the head honchos of the armada. The Reapers we encountered on Tuchanka and Rannoch were Destroyer-class Reapers, who serve as basically escorts and support units for the Capital Reapers.
"All I see is a war machine that's better at talking than killing. I'm gonna be awfully disappointed if your idea of trying to kill me at your request is with a conversation." - A very snarky, sarcastic response that I would have made if given the chance
I always play as Vanguard because for me make the thing more poetic you know, Reapers the Vanguard of Destruction and Shepard the Vanguard of Salvation
@@joshuagross3151maybe in game but in lore why would you NOT be a biotic shep could always do N7 training again but biotic shep just is simply more powerful like if shep did survive the crucible he would be crushed under piles of rock with broken bones nearly dead biotic shep can just float it away non-biotic would have it much harder
@@Hammerpowah Nah, part of it is because you beat him way too many times. Sovereign tries to kill you once at the end of the game and loses. Harbinger tries to kill you for the entirety of ME2 (and maybe 3, honestly I've not played that yet) and loses every time, he possesses grunts on the battlefield so he can fight you directly since he's away with the Reaper fleet in Dark Space. By the time you meet him face to holagram in the Arrival DLC (I can't remember if you meet him sooner), he straight up admits to you that you've been repeatedly thwarting him and it's getting on his nerves. He tries to kill you so many times because you represent a threat to him and he knows it, what's worse is he can't do anything about it, which massively detracts from his presence, you don't feel a sense of urgency when fighting him in any battle because you've already beaten him several times, you are better than him and everyone knows it. That's why Sovereign was so much better, because you barely see him throughout the game, and when you do it has the atmosphere of "holy fuck", when he leaves Eden Prime and you see him for the first time, he's just departed from a human colonised planet and accomplished his goal to almost perfection. He got everything he came for, the only thing he didn't manage to do it something that he told someone else to do, so it wasn't even his loss. You then see very little of him throughout the game while getting bits and pieces of hints about the Reapers and past civilisations and then surmise that Sovereign must be a relic ship from thousands of years ago. Then when you meet him for the first time he gives you possibly the most impactful exposition dump ever and you learn that it's not just a ship, but an actual being. He tells you that everything that you have done has been done thousands of times before (and he's seen it) and everything you are trying to do has been tried thousands of times before, it will make no difference, you are beneath his notice, he doesn't even know your name, he simply doesn't care. He then proceeds with his plan completely unchecked and you are stuck on the Citadel, blocked from being able to do anything about it. By this point he hasn't even committed to any direct action towards you and he's almost won with little to no setbacks. You just barely scrape a win against him at the last second in the final mission and it takes the entire Alliance fleet to take him down. Shepard has to commit to a lot in order to beat Sovereign, but with Harbinger, nah
@Fa FA Yeah, but what does that have to do with what I said? Harbinger was the leader of the fleet that didn't die to the galactic resistance, yet he's not nearly as intimidating as Sovereign because his dialogue wasn't nearly as memorable and had been thwarted/defeated several times throughout ME2 and probably 3. He didn't die at the end because the writers wanted to force the player into a choice between 3 endings, rather than the ending that they'd been building up for so long. That's like saying Snoke is more intimidating than Vader because they reduced the Resistance to one ship
@Fa FA This comment debunks nothing of what I said. Harbinger had no presence as a villain, not because he was in Dark Space, but because his dialogue was shit. Yeah, he eventually won, kinda but not really. Harbinger is the exact opposite of the way to write a villain. For his entire existence you beat him again and again, thwarting his every attempt to do anything and he's getting frustrated about it, only to almost win at the end but get defeated for the 30th time by a laser which has 3 different ways of defeating him. You beat him dozens of times throughout the game and your reward is choosing how to kill him. He's nowhere near Sovereign's level. Nearly took out the strongest fleets in the entire galaxy by himself and seized the galactic capital, basically guarunteeing the victory of the Reapers only to get killed by a clutch victory at the last second
@Fa FA Do you know what a newsflash is dude? Read my comments again. Yes, all of them. Before you do, read this one as well. Sovereign was defeated by a combination of multiple fleets, these fleets were the second strongest in the galaxy, the first strongest had just been destroyed by him and the Geth. The Joker didn't 1-shot Sovereign. Sovereign was taking immense fire from dozens of ships for about five minutes. Even though he died, he had done enough damage to the fleet that they would not have been very combat effective afterwards. Dozens of ships had been destroyed. Is Shepard had not defeated Sovereign/Saren when he did (the only opportunity Shepard had ever had to defeat Sovereign) then the galaxy would have been ended and it would have been Sovereign's doing, not Harbinger's. Harbinger is sat safely away in Dark Space, assimilating Collectors isn't going to put him in danger, because he is not currently being attacked by the second strongest fleet in the galaxy. Everything he attempted to do in ME2 was thwarted, several times and he gets audibly frustrated. Sovereign nearly beats you without paying you the slightest bit of attention. Harbinger in ME2 is in the same position that you were in in ME1. Frantically trying to accomplish a goal, only to have someone thwart you at literally every turn
Sovereign is one of the coolest villains of any video game. It, or rather, they, don't get much screen time, but whenever they do it's always very threatening and ominous. Over the course of the game, as you learn more and more about Saren and Sovereign, your mind paints a picture of not a ship or a machine, but a force of nature. Almost like a god in a way. The way it conducts itself, the way others speak of it, and just how little you know about it, tells you that in all likelihood, it is not exaggerating when it tells you that you are hopeless to stop the coming destruction. Most importantly I feel is that, unlike so many other villains, it never even hints that it considers you as any sort of threat. Even when trash talking you, it sounds completely genuine and doesn't even truly acknowledge you. Personally, I feel like Sovereign died too soon as a villain. Harbinger by comparison is a joke, though how they would have evolved Sovereign over the course of the next two games if they hadn't been destroyed at the citadel may have watered down its character. I suppose we'll never know. Regardless, this is a great combination of Sovereigns themes.
Sovereign served it's role perfectly. It had just enough screentime to keep it interesting and threatening while still being mysterious. Harbinger was handled awfully and it really surprised me, they didn't give it a fully robotic voice probably not to ruin the "reveal" at the end but the character is literally just a meme. All it does is talk shit and most of the time can't back it up. Sovereign almost fucked the entire galaxy on its own.
I Love the Way Saren Talks About How Sovereign Sees the Geth. Sovereign Thought itself so Much More Superior than the Geth, that it was “Insulted” When They Literally Started Worshipping it as a God
To me, soveriegn wasn't just a reaper, he was death in it's purest form. He was a machine in a universe full of enemies and with no allies. He faced the greatest hero, destroyed countless worlds and lives; he even succeeded once before. Despite his death, the mere mention of the name *sovereign* will always give me intimidation for his obsession to end all life...
I wish he had been the final villain of the series. Harbinger is like "you will transcend" meanwhile sovereign "you exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it!" Sovereign basically says galaxy wide purge, then get what's next. Scary as hell
Not sure if anyone was curious. But according to Sovreign, 'The Pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom'. If the wiki is accurate, The first harvest occured over 1 billion years ago. Meaning that the cycle we are in is around number 20,000 or so in game.
Sort of wish they just kept the senseless, genocidal mindset of the reapers. I didn’t mind the explanation, but the idea that they have no purpose but to continually exterminate life every cycle made them such a mystery.
@@ragnabolt683I don’t think it’s actually a child it just took that form for Shepard is silly that they gave the world ending force a cartoonish rouge AI leader though the reapers could have stood up just fine by themselves
I personally think harbinger and sovreign should've had their names reversed. It would make more sense for a reaper with the name Sovreign to be the leader of the reapers and harbinger to be... well the harbinger of the reapers.
I think both names are given to them by organics, we do know that Saren named Sovereign, and iirc Harbinger is the nickname given to the collector leader by the Alliance or Cerberus, idk which, so it makes sense for their names to be swapped at least
No ... the eye of death itself . Despite how i like Lotr , Sauron is NOTHING in comperasion to Sovereign . He can destroy entire worlds , indoctrinate purest heroes and he did it thousands times , over and over and over . Yeah , he never done this alone but he was imposible to stop for MANY civilisations .
My recent play through of Mass Effect 1 just further reaffirmed to me that it is by far the best in the series, the others just don’t come close to the level of atmosphere and mystery that game has and I think it’s sad Bioware will likely never pull that off again.
I think atmosphere, 3 wins. It’s just so dreadful watching planets fall and realizing that it is NOT a war, it’s a fight for survival that will cost billions of lives. 1 had the best themes and story, seeing as how it told its own story while setting up the future of the series and wasn’t in ea’s timelines it got to do its own thing, but it was cluttered. 2 is the most memorable with a gritty atmosphere and I liked the story being kinda segmented. 3 has the best combat though
@@tacocat4252 I meant more like the missions themselves feeling more eerie and not the overall story, although I prefer 1's story about being a badass Spectre going around the galaxy to stop a very dangerous rogue spectre, the level of world building is just insane as well and I'm still salty about the way they decided to end 3 to this day so they better do an amazing job with the next game, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are very special to me. I especially loved some of the side missions revolving Cerberus in Mass Effect 1, you really get to appreciate Cerberus in Mass Effect 2 if you do all those side missions, it feels like Cerberus was supposed to play a bigger role at some point in the first game but got scrapped to side missions.
@@mrxxsesshomaruxx9642 individual missions I personally think 2 does the best job. I mean the end mission is so iconic it’s forever with me as THE mass effect experience. But I definitely agree the world building they put into 1 and then built off of was phenomenal. And yeah, the end of 3 put a sour taste in everyone’s mouth, the devs literally couldn’t eat cupcakes sent to them because of fear of poisoning. Then they all quit and andromeda flopped, so I think them coming back for mass effect 4 will have a good effect and they’re gonna work to bring back the player love for the franchise. Personally I mod mass effect 3 so the ending is wayyyy better, you gotta love how mods will fix everything devs either didn’t or couldn’t do for their game On the topic of Cerberus it always seemed like there was a love hate relationship with them narrative wise. They went from an extreme human terrorist organization that did crazy experiments to the only group that was actually helping people, back to insane. Their arc definitely could’ve been different, especially if they had been planned as a bigger group in 1. It also would’ve made sense since originally the batarians we’re gonna be the big enemy of 1 in a kind of skyllian blitz type story, then that idea got scrapped into background for the reaper arc
Replaying through ME1 in the Legendary Edition reminded me once again how threatening Sovereign felt just through its words It was one among thousands of Reapers, a race of synthetic "living starships" that can end all life in the galaxy with ease Tho the scariest part about all of this is, what if there is indeed a race of synthetic alien race who harvest advanced organic life for the sake of maintaining a balance
Hey, thanks for sharing this! I'd appreciate proper attribution, though, if you could edit the description. While Jack wrote many a magnificent piece for Mass Effect, this one was mine. :)
agreed. Something inscrutable and incapable of understanding becomes . . . kind of cliche. I don't mind me3's ending but it doesnt do sovereign's dialogue justice.
@@Michael-cj6yd that's what I'm saying. Its not... BAD but they just don't feel like some unstoppable eldritch horror and instead like generic extragalactic invaders. I feel like it was set up really well up to that point, like showing how an entire fleet (largest in the galaxy I might add) is barely enough to take it down. I think the worst part for me was the VERY end. Everything up to that was pretty good, then you talk to magic hologram kid and die. Idk mabye I just imagined Shep settling with tali or having a party on the citadel instead of all synthetics dying lol and it's my problem.
Bro they took Thessia, the most advanced planet in the Milky Way and they get absolutely mauled. the only reason we won was off a chance that was birthed by countless races. The stakes have never been higher, tbf though I love the endings where we get absolutely smashed, still just scrape a victory but Earths In complete ruin, the citadel is destroyed, shepards dead and admiral Hackett is stranded in his capital ship. I feel that’s the most gritty ending
@@UltimateFeudEnterprise people complain but if we went the lore accurate ending everyone would be dissapointed as all th things thy did were meaningless and not allow for an me4 becoming forgotten. alternatively, the reapers couldve been destroyed by a civilization that exceeded the leviathans from outter the galaxy who couldve helped the milky way reach synthesis. and through that it would allow a destroy / control ending imo
If I recall correctly, the map of the Citadel council chamber is also shaped like a Sovereign-class Reaper as well. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a coincidence.
well considering that the entire galaxy is undergoing mass extinction event and destruction across many major planets, that line from Shepard sounds out of place. words as empty as their future
I think they just called it Sovereign-Class as a comparison to their strength. It took an entire fleet to stop it so calling the others of the same class is to show how powerful they are
It really sucks that the 2nd half of mass effect 1 was the peak of the series. The franchise could have been so much better, and it's not even bad now.
i love this music and sovereign is definitely scary, but honest to god, whenever he says "our exsitence/plan/etc are beyond your comprehension" i just roll my eyes so hard, the dude's full of shit. sure, the reapers are a real threat, that much is obvious, but you he didn't neglect to explain because "we can't handle the truth" he's just too lazy to, or better yet, he probably doesn't know. i'd wager the catalyst never shared his plans with the reapers, why would they?
@@blaze4111 But you're pulling that out of nowhere, we don't know what the Reaper's had planned in ME1, so we can't verify whether Sovereign was telling the truth. He has no reason to lie because of the amount of times he's seen the galaxy try to defend itself and fail, he has nothing to fear from you
@@TOONYBOY i'm not saying he's lying, i'm saying the "this is beyond your understanding" mentality is bullshit, even if he believes it, scratch that *especially* if he believes it.
@@blaze4111 Well again, when ME1 came out they likely either had a different plan for the Reapers or intended to leave it a mystery (would have preferred that imo). With that in mind, Sovereign has seen countless civilisations and their response to Reapers, whatever they had planned organics obviously haven't agreed with it without indoctrination, which would lead him to believe that their purpose is beyond our understanding. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "especially if he believes it". Why would that make it *more* bullshit?
Sovereign: This. Harbinger: Assu- Assu- Assu- Assuming dir- Assum- Assuming dire- FUCK IT WELL DO IT LIVE! Harbinger was pathetic. Thats why they had him noshow ME3. Fact is Mass Effect 2 and 3 leeched off all the great work ME1 did with the Reapers. They added almost nothing. I mean what did ME2 give us? Husk waves on a semi-dead reaper. Great chance to recreate the Virmire conversation and instead we shoot waves of husks. Other than that its just giant terminator baby. ME2 ME1>>>>>>>>> | ME3
ME2 gave you exploration of races, being in the world, great characters and most of all you met and made connections between them and between yourself which could be great for ME3. Main story of ME2 was bs and Suicide mission was a disaster that prevented any good writing to occur since so many could be dead BUT I always see the collector bs being just a glue sort of binding together the side stories about characters, their societies etc. Problem lies in ME3 - it was rushed and didnt use ANY ME2 things - characters, stories got retconned, decisions rarely mattered AND ME3 was entirely them telling you a story not you creating it anymore. ME1 created the world, races, plot. ME2 created connections between races AND player, made you live in the world and enabled the next game. ME3 then behaved like ME2 never even happened and felt like continueation of ME1, everything was rushed, stupid, linear, no player agency, bad squad (mostly caused by suicide mission because it would take too long to make all varietions), extremely short, terrible side quests (pretty much nonexistent) and overall ME3 squandered all the potential built by the first and second game. (Sometimes they even outright assassinated a character in ME3 like Ashley who feels like a barbie doll in 3.) so I think its ME1 >> ME2 >>>>>>>>>ME3 (I think even andromeda was a better game than 3 - 3 was simply catastrophic)
@@matthewcoster5535 you're on TH-cam. You can search "dune main theme", and yes, obviously the 1984 one, given the current one didn't exist when mass effect was created (doh)
I honestly think Harbinger and Sovereign's names were swapped. Sovereign was meant to usher in the other Reapers and be a warning of their might. Ya know, like a _Harbinger_ does? Meanwhile Harbinger was the leader of the Reapers, or at least as much of a leader as one can be of a collective consciousness. So he'd be the Sovereign of the Reapers. Just a bit odd.
![An End, Once And For All - Mass Effect 3 (Piano Cover) [Best Ending]](/img/n.gif)
The Virgin Harbinger "I will destroy you. This hurts you, Shepard"
The Chad Sovereign "You are not Saren"
"I will destroy you" compared to
"You exist, because we allow it. And you will end, because we demand it"
@@psycholamborghini4828 You forgot the part where he completely decimates the Earth ground forces, says nothing, leaves Shepard half dead and quietly flies away.
@@joshuagross3151 *refuses to elaborate further, leaves
The incel star child: "tHe CrEaTeD wIlL aLwAyS rEbEl AgAiNsT tHe CrEaToRs"
The virgin harbinger: tHiS hUrTs YoU"
The pussy slayer sovereign: Y O U E X I S T B E C A U S E W E A L L O W I T A N D Y O U W I L L E N D B E C A U S E W E D E M A N D I T
Harbinger was the smart one.
He did it because he was scared.
Sovereign was so cool because he was alone. He showed us what one Reaper was capable of, and left us wondering how many more are still waiting in the void.
Lead Poisoning
4 months ago
"We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it... and you will end because we demand it."
~ Sovereign to Shepard and his Squadmates regarding his objective.
It's all about personality and writing.
Sovereign was one Reaper and was imposing and frightening.
The Catalyst was all the Reapers and was a ridiculous illogical literal child with child logic.
@@zephyr8072 True.
Who said was "HE"? IT or THE prefix before the name would be more appropriate. Sovereign has no gender and is not countable. It may be a single or a multiple level of intelligences linked in a single unit. It is they. They are Legion, a not understandable concept for an organic livin individual.
@@zephyr8072 Catalyst turned in to a child because that shape was the only one that might connect and "control" the Shepard mind. It is clear that nightmares and attempts of indoctrination toward Shepard were tried. The last dialogue with the Catalyst might also be an attempt of indoctrination if you think about. Saren and Illusive man would had chosen Synthesis and Control. Both of them were quite sure of the possibility to survive by using those two options. Saren wanted to be enhanced by them, and was quite firm about the possibility of elevate the organic life to a new dimension of fusion. On the other hand Illusive man was all about control the reapers.
But how the ancient machines could persuade intelligent minds as Saren and Illusive? Most probably with nightmares and manipulation of mind by tackling on their fears and weaknesses.
Shepard weakness was losing friends and being responsible of civil losses.
The catalyst shape is not a random thing.
*Killing a Reaper on Tuchanka*
"Oh my God, Shepard is amazing."
*Killing a Reaper on Rannoch*
"Why did these things ever seem impressive, haha."
*Reads Codex and realises that Sovereign is THIRTEEN times as big as either of those*
"Oh. That's why."
Sovereign was a Capital Reaper, the head honchos of the armada. The Reapers we encountered on Tuchanka and Rannoch were Destroyer-class Reapers, who serve as basically escorts and support units for the Capital Reapers.
More so 2000 times larger. When an object grows x times in one dimention but maintains its proportions its volume grows x^3 times.
@@warwolf3005ahem, Capital Class reapers are 2000m, Destroyer Class are rounded up 200m
@@Lex36020 Destroyers are 160 m tall.
@warwolf3005 actually 170m according to my source. Note that i said "around 200m", i rounded up the number.
"We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it,
and you will end because we demand it." -Sovereign, 2183
"All I see is a war machine that's better at talking than killing. I'm gonna be awfully disappointed if your idea of trying to kill me at your request is with a conversation."
- A very snarky, sarcastic response that I would have made if given the chance
"There is no war, only the harvest"
-Leviathan
IIRC, isn't Leviathan the name of a guy who got thrown out the airlock?
I bet Javik would've LOVED to have seen that. XD
sovereign is actually the most scary reaper of mass effect
not really, the human one was spooky tho
@@SpoogieDerpington yeah but he wasn't finished and it's very different
@@SpoogieDerpington The human one looked kinda goofy. I mean why did that Reaper's design deviate so severely from the mechanical space squids?
@@tonts5329 Because its a HUMAN reaper and it was made out of HUMANS that was the whole point of the collectors abducting HUMANS
@@SpoogieDerpington So why did the rest of the Reapers look like Harbinger? #Retcons
The only time a villain in a video game actually made me feel threatened irl
I always play as Vanguard because for me make the thing more poetic you know, Reapers the Vanguard of Destruction and Shepard the Vanguard of Salvation
Like the idea .
And because vanguard is the most fun class
@@jebodeiasque Agree to disagree, says the Engineer.
I remember 'sentinel' gets mentioned in this game too after the Sovereign conversation. I can't remember when or by who, I think it was by Saren.
@@joshuagross3151maybe in game but in lore why would you NOT be a biotic shep could always do N7 training again but biotic shep just is simply more powerful like if shep did survive the crucible he would be crushed under piles of rock with broken bones nearly dead biotic shep can just float it away non-biotic would have it much harder
"Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything"
This guy was so much more intimidating than Harbinger.
because harbringer was a noob, he din't had have enough of paragon/renegade points, where sovereign is capped in renegade AF!
@@Hammerpowah Nah, part of it is because you beat him way too many times. Sovereign tries to kill you once at the end of the game and loses. Harbinger tries to kill you for the entirety of ME2 (and maybe 3, honestly I've not played that yet) and loses every time, he possesses grunts on the battlefield so he can fight you directly since he's away with the Reaper fleet in Dark Space. By the time you meet him face to holagram in the Arrival DLC (I can't remember if you meet him sooner), he straight up admits to you that you've been repeatedly thwarting him and it's getting on his nerves. He tries to kill you so many times because you represent a threat to him and he knows it, what's worse is he can't do anything about it, which massively detracts from his presence, you don't feel a sense of urgency when fighting him in any battle because you've already beaten him several times, you are better than him and everyone knows it.
That's why Sovereign was so much better, because you barely see him throughout the game, and when you do it has the atmosphere of "holy fuck", when he leaves Eden Prime and you see him for the first time, he's just departed from a human colonised planet and accomplished his goal to almost perfection. He got everything he came for, the only thing he didn't manage to do it something that he told someone else to do, so it wasn't even his loss. You then see very little of him throughout the game while getting bits and pieces of hints about the Reapers and past civilisations and then surmise that Sovereign must be a relic ship from thousands of years ago. Then when you meet him for the first time he gives you possibly the most impactful exposition dump ever and you learn that it's not just a ship, but an actual being. He tells you that everything that you have done has been done thousands of times before (and he's seen it) and everything you are trying to do has been tried thousands of times before, it will make no difference, you are beneath his notice, he doesn't even know your name, he simply doesn't care. He then proceeds with his plan completely unchecked and you are stuck on the Citadel, blocked from being able to do anything about it. By this point he hasn't even committed to any direct action towards you and he's almost won with little to no setbacks. You just barely scrape a win against him at the last second in the final mission and it takes the entire Alliance fleet to take him down. Shepard has to commit to a lot in order to beat Sovereign, but with Harbinger, nah
@Fa FA Yeah, but what does that have to do with what I said? Harbinger was the leader of the fleet that didn't die to the galactic resistance, yet he's not nearly as intimidating as Sovereign because his dialogue wasn't nearly as memorable and had been thwarted/defeated several times throughout ME2 and probably 3. He didn't die at the end because the writers wanted to force the player into a choice between 3 endings, rather than the ending that they'd been building up for so long.
That's like saying Snoke is more intimidating than Vader because they reduced the Resistance to one ship
@Fa FA This comment debunks nothing of what I said. Harbinger had no presence as a villain, not because he was in Dark Space, but because his dialogue was shit. Yeah, he eventually won, kinda but not really. Harbinger is the exact opposite of the way to write a villain. For his entire existence you beat him again and again, thwarting his every attempt to do anything and he's getting frustrated about it, only to almost win at the end but get defeated for the 30th time by a laser which has 3 different ways of defeating him. You beat him dozens of times throughout the game and your reward is choosing how to kill him.
He's nowhere near Sovereign's level. Nearly took out the strongest fleets in the entire galaxy by himself and seized the galactic capital, basically guarunteeing the victory of the Reapers only to get killed by a clutch victory at the last second
@Fa FA Do you know what a newsflash is dude? Read my comments again. Yes, all of them.
Before you do, read this one as well. Sovereign was defeated by a combination of multiple fleets, these fleets were the second strongest in the galaxy, the first strongest had just been destroyed by him and the Geth. The Joker didn't 1-shot Sovereign. Sovereign was taking immense fire from dozens of ships for about five minutes. Even though he died, he had done enough damage to the fleet that they would not have been very combat effective afterwards. Dozens of ships had been destroyed. Is Shepard had not defeated Sovereign/Saren when he did (the only opportunity Shepard had ever had to defeat Sovereign) then the galaxy would have been ended and it would have been Sovereign's doing, not Harbinger's.
Harbinger is sat safely away in Dark Space, assimilating Collectors isn't going to put him in danger, because he is not currently being attacked by the second strongest fleet in the galaxy.
Everything he attempted to do in ME2 was thwarted, several times and he gets audibly frustrated.
Sovereign nearly beats you without paying you the slightest bit of attention. Harbinger in ME2 is in the same position that you were in in ME1. Frantically trying to accomplish a goal, only to have someone thwart you at literally every turn
"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world"
"You exist because we allow it, you will end because we demand it."
"Then we will fight in the shade!"
You think he’s trying to tell us something?
That line always gives me shivers. Makes me more determined to fight the Reapers evil
and they did
*"Shepard."*
"You know me?"
Isn't it neat that Sovereign looks like the Eye of Sauron in video?
That’s what I was thinking I’m getting sauron vibes off this soundtrack too
A likely inspiration, also it seems very similar to hell vision from Spec Ops the Line
Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
I don’t think that’s a VI
Sovereign is one of the coolest villains of any video game. It, or rather, they, don't get much screen time, but whenever they do it's always very threatening and ominous. Over the course of the game, as you learn more and more about Saren and Sovereign, your mind paints a picture of not a ship or a machine, but a force of nature. Almost like a god in a way. The way it conducts itself, the way others speak of it, and just how little you know about it, tells you that in all likelihood, it is not exaggerating when it tells you that you are hopeless to stop the coming destruction.
Most importantly I feel is that, unlike so many other villains, it never even hints that it considers you as any sort of threat. Even when trash talking you, it sounds completely genuine and doesn't even truly acknowledge you.
Personally, I feel like Sovereign died too soon as a villain. Harbinger by comparison is a joke, though how they would have evolved Sovereign over the course of the next two games if they hadn't been destroyed at the citadel may have watered down its character. I suppose we'll never know.
Regardless, this is a great combination of Sovereigns themes.
Sovereign served it's role perfectly. It had just enough screentime to keep it interesting and threatening while still being mysterious. Harbinger was handled awfully and it really surprised me, they didn't give it a fully robotic voice probably not to ruin the "reveal" at the end but the character is literally just a meme. All it does is talk shit and most of the time can't back it up. Sovereign almost fucked the entire galaxy on its own.
I wonder what race it came from.
@@joshuagross3151its the leviathans. Hence why it still has the ability to say help me
@@Jettsttreams _Harbinger_ came from the Leviathans. Remember, each Reaper is equivalent to one race.
I Love the Way Saren Talks About How Sovereign Sees the Geth. Sovereign Thought itself so Much More Superior than the Geth, that it was “Insulted” When They Literally Started Worshipping it as a God
Like Sovereign didn't want devotion or worship, it demanded obedience.
I love the picture in this video. A Reaper and Spec Ops The Line. Two truly amazing things to come out of gaming.
Sovereign felt more intimidating than Harbinger imo
To me, soveriegn wasn't just a reaper, he was death in it's purest form. He was a machine in a universe full of enemies and with no allies. He faced the greatest hero, destroyed countless worlds and lives; he even succeeded once before. Despite his death, the mere mention of the name *sovereign* will always give me intimidation for his obsession to end all life...
I wish he had been the final villain of the series. Harbinger is like "you will transcend" meanwhile sovereign "you exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it!" Sovereign basically says galaxy wide purge, then get what's next. Scary as hell
Bro even had his heroic last stand at the citadel. Truly a mighty figure, even if he was an opposing force.
Not to mention "Sovereign" is an incredibly badass name
To me, it was Monday...
Spec Ops: The Line and Mass Effect crossover
so glad someone noticed it
Two amazingly beautiful story driven games.
Two different game series about the mental health crisis of a commando
This exchange is over
Not sure if anyone was curious. But according to Sovreign, 'The Pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom'. If the wiki is accurate, The first harvest occured over 1 billion years ago. Meaning that the cycle we are in is around number 20,000 or so in game.
means that there are around 20k reapers out there.
Their kill count must the largest I've seen in fiction
Sort of wish they just kept the senseless, genocidal mindset of the reapers. I didn’t mind the explanation, but the idea that they have no purpose but to continually exterminate life every cycle made them such a mystery.
Yes..that child AI was a horrible, horrible concept.
@@ragnabolt683I don’t think it’s actually a child it just took that form for Shepard is silly that they gave the world ending force a cartoonish rouge AI leader though the reapers could have stood up just fine by themselves
Imagine if the Reapers just kept invading for shits and giggles
@@ragnabolt683I am pretty sure the ai takes the appearance of tbe child Shepard watched die at the start
The pinnacle of evolution, even compared to the other lesser reapers like harbinger
I personally think harbinger and sovreign should've had their names reversed. It would make more sense for a reaper with the name Sovreign to be the leader of the reapers and harbinger to be... well the harbinger of the reapers.
Harbinger was the first reaper to be created by the Leviathan. Still a good point.
I think both names are given to them by organics, we do know that Saren named Sovereign, and iirc Harbinger is the nickname given to the collector leader by the Alliance or Cerberus, idk which, so it makes sense for their names to be swapped at least
This is the theme I think of when I think of 'villian music'.
2:42 second track begins
Lol. Eye of sovereign
No ... the eye of death itself . Despite how i like Lotr , Sauron is NOTHING in comperasion to Sovereign . He can destroy entire worlds , indoctrinate purest heroes and he did it thousands times , over and over and over . Yeah , he never done this alone but he was imposible to stop for MANY civilisations .
Walker was indoctrinated confirmed
I mean you're not technically wrong. Almost everything was basically in his head
*We will be Waiting*
My recent play through of Mass Effect 1 just further reaffirmed to me that it is by far the best in the series, the others just don’t come close to the level of atmosphere and mystery that game has and I think it’s sad Bioware will likely never pull that off again.
I think atmosphere, 3 wins. It’s just so dreadful watching planets fall and realizing that it is NOT a war, it’s a fight for survival that will cost billions of lives. 1 had the best themes and story, seeing as how it told its own story while setting up the future of the series and wasn’t in ea’s timelines it got to do its own thing, but it was cluttered. 2 is the most memorable with a gritty atmosphere and I liked the story being kinda segmented. 3 has the best combat though
@@tacocat4252 I meant more like the missions themselves feeling more eerie and not the overall story, although I prefer 1's story about being a badass Spectre going around the galaxy to stop a very dangerous rogue spectre, the level of world building is just insane as well and I'm still salty about the way they decided to end 3 to this day so they better do an amazing job with the next game, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are very special to me.
I especially loved some of the side missions revolving Cerberus in Mass Effect 1, you really get to appreciate Cerberus in Mass Effect 2 if you do all those side missions, it feels like Cerberus was supposed to play a bigger role at some point in the first game but got scrapped to side missions.
@@mrxxsesshomaruxx9642 individual missions I personally think 2 does the best job. I mean the end mission is so iconic it’s forever with me as THE mass effect experience. But I definitely agree the world building they put into 1 and then built off of was phenomenal. And yeah, the end of 3 put a sour taste in everyone’s mouth, the devs literally couldn’t eat cupcakes sent to them because of fear of poisoning. Then they all quit and andromeda flopped, so I think them coming back for mass effect 4 will have a good effect and they’re gonna work to bring back the player love for the franchise. Personally I mod mass effect 3 so the ending is wayyyy better, you gotta love how mods will fix everything devs either didn’t or couldn’t do for their game
On the topic of Cerberus it always seemed like there was a love hate relationship with them narrative wise. They went from an extreme human terrorist organization that did crazy experiments to the only group that was actually helping people, back to insane. Their arc definitely could’ve been different, especially if they had been planned as a bigger group in 1. It also would’ve made sense since originally the batarians we’re gonna be the big enemy of 1 in a kind of skyllian blitz type story, then that idea got scrapped into background for the reaper arc
It is the best one, even the combat is better once you ramp up difficulty
Sick Spec Ops The Line reference
Funny how much this sounds like the theme of Baldur's Gate, the original great BioWare RPG.
And listen to David Lynch's Dune intro. It sound familiar.
When I was younger, and my mom would come home, and I didn't have the chicken dethawed from the freezer already...
*Cue the music*
“You are not Saren”
every time I hear it I get goosebumps
When you figure out this was part of the Baldur's Gate Soundtrack: at 2.02min
This whole score if full Baldur's Gate style
2:02
Your words are as empty as your future im am the vanguard of your distrusion this exchange is over
Replaying through ME1 in the Legendary Edition reminded me once again how threatening Sovereign felt just through its words
It was one among thousands of Reapers, a race of synthetic "living starships" that can end all life in the galaxy with ease
Tho the scariest part about all of this is, what if there is indeed a race of synthetic alien race who harvest advanced organic life for the sake of maintaining a balance
Commander Shepard disliked this video
hahaha
Hey, thanks for sharing this! I'd appreciate proper attribution, though, if you could edit the description. While Jack wrote many a magnificent piece for Mass Effect, this one was mine. :)
Sovereign was more intimidating than Harbinger
The one dislike is sovereign
Sounds a lot like the theme from the 1984 Dune movie
I just replayed ME3 and honestly its ending kinda ruined the reapers for me.
Love all of sovereigns lines though
agreed. Something inscrutable and incapable of understanding becomes . . . kind of cliche. I don't mind me3's ending but it doesnt do sovereign's dialogue justice.
@@Michael-cj6yd that's what I'm saying. Its not... BAD but they just don't feel like some unstoppable eldritch horror and instead like generic extragalactic invaders. I feel like it was set up really well up to that point, like showing how an entire fleet (largest in the galaxy I might add) is barely enough to take it down. I think the worst part for me was the VERY end. Everything up to that was pretty good, then you talk to magic hologram kid and die. Idk mabye I just imagined Shep settling with tali or having a party on the citadel instead of all synthetics dying lol and it's my problem.
Bro they took Thessia, the most advanced planet in the Milky Way and they get absolutely mauled. the only reason we won was off a chance that was birthed by countless races. The stakes have never been higher, tbf though I love the endings where we get absolutely smashed, still just scrape a victory but Earths In complete ruin, the citadel is destroyed, shepards dead and admiral Hackett is stranded in his capital ship. I feel that’s the most gritty ending
@@UltimateFeudEnterprise people complain but if we went the lore accurate ending everyone would be dissapointed as all th things thy did were meaningless and not allow for an me4 becoming forgotten. alternatively, the reapers couldve been destroyed by a civilization that exceeded the leviathans from outter the galaxy who couldve helped the milky way reach synthesis. and through that it would allow a destroy / control ending imo
He felt so much more threatening than Harbinger.
Is it just me or does this sound a bit like the music for the Citadel?
You might be on to something here
@@notoriousblt1038 I can't be the only one here
If I recall correctly, the map of the Citadel council chamber is also shaped like a Sovereign-class Reaper as well. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a coincidence.
Do you feel like a hero yet?
Vanguard of our destruction, huh? How's that working out for you big guy
well considering that the entire galaxy is undergoing mass extinction event and destruction across many major planets, that line from Shepard sounds out of place. words as empty as their future
*”harbinger speaks of you”*
Translation: the old man won’t shut the hell up about you damnit
spec ops the line and Mass Effect?
All hail Reylo.
best Reaper. the fact that in ME3 they turned him from an indivudual to a mere "class" or Reaper, with thousands like it, was a criminal downgrade
the chorus sounds like all the creatures used to create Sovereign are all screaming in harmony
I think they just called it Sovereign-Class as a comparison to their strength. It took an entire fleet to stop it so calling the others of the same class is to show how powerful they are
@@Lex36020 they also look the same as Sovereign
Wait! Its Waker? Sovereign in deep sh!t!
It really sucks that the 2nd half of mass effect 1 was the peak of the series. The franchise could have been so much better, and it's not even bad now.
You are not Saren...
they had the nerf them like a crazy amount so other two games can mean something
This image is so cool. Is it from the beacon vision or somewhere else?
direct reference to spec ops the line
@@Ayranenjoyer Cool, thanks for the answer!
This borrows pretty heavily from the main theme of David Lynch's Dune.
a
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В чате есть русские
Where are the Reapers when we need ‘em?
This world is so F’ed up it needs a clean up.
Ask Shepard about this .
i love this music and sovereign is definitely scary, but honest to god, whenever he says "our exsitence/plan/etc are beyond your comprehension" i just roll my eyes so hard, the dude's full of shit.
sure, the reapers are a real threat, that much is obvious, but you he didn't neglect to explain because "we can't handle the truth" he's just too lazy to, or better yet, he probably doesn't know. i'd wager the catalyst never shared his plans with the reapers, why would they?
Or they came up with the Catalyst and the Reaper plan retroactively
@@TOONYBOY that doesn't mean sovereign had any idea what the plan was, regardless of what bioware had planned. he was always full of shit either way.
@@blaze4111 But you're pulling that out of nowhere, we don't know what the Reaper's had planned in ME1, so we can't verify whether Sovereign was telling the truth. He has no reason to lie because of the amount of times he's seen the galaxy try to defend itself and fail, he has nothing to fear from you
@@TOONYBOY i'm not saying he's lying, i'm saying the "this is beyond your understanding" mentality is bullshit, even if he believes it, scratch that *especially* if he believes it.
@@blaze4111 Well again, when ME1 came out they likely either had a different plan for the Reapers or intended to leave it a mystery (would have preferred that imo). With that in mind, Sovereign has seen countless civilisations and their response to Reapers, whatever they had planned organics obviously haven't agreed with it without indoctrination, which would lead him to believe that their purpose is beyond our understanding.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "especially if he believes it". Why would that make it *more* bullshit?
Sovereign: This.
Harbinger: Assu- Assu- Assu- Assuming dir- Assum- Assuming dire- FUCK IT WELL DO IT LIVE!
Harbinger was pathetic. Thats why they had him noshow ME3. Fact is Mass Effect 2 and 3 leeched off all the great work ME1 did with the Reapers. They added almost nothing. I mean what did ME2 give us? Husk waves on a semi-dead reaper. Great chance to recreate the Virmire conversation and instead we shoot waves of husks.
Other than that its just giant terminator baby.
ME2
ME1>>>>>>>>> |
ME3
ME2 gave you exploration of races, being in the world, great characters and most of all you met and made connections between them and between yourself which could be great for ME3. Main story of ME2 was bs and Suicide mission was a disaster that prevented any good writing to occur since so many could be dead BUT I always see the collector bs being just a glue sort of binding together the side stories about characters, their societies etc. Problem lies in ME3 - it was rushed and didnt use ANY ME2 things - characters, stories got retconned, decisions rarely mattered AND ME3 was entirely them telling you a story not you creating it anymore.
ME1 created the world, races, plot. ME2 created connections between races AND player, made you live in the world and enabled the next game. ME3 then behaved like ME2 never even happened and felt like continueation of ME1, everything was rushed, stupid, linear, no player agency, bad squad (mostly caused by suicide mission because it would take too long to make all varietions), extremely short, terrible side quests (pretty much nonexistent) and overall ME3 squandered all the potential built by the first and second game. (Sometimes they even outright assassinated a character in ME3 like Ashley who feels like a barbie doll in 3.)
so I think its ME1 >> ME2 >>>>>>>>>ME3 (I think even andromeda was a better game than 3 - 3 was simply catastrophic)
Harbinger was nothing compared to this one. What a downgrade.
full blown copypasted from Dune's main theme.
Honestly, the dune theme is just 4 repeating notes. This isn't.
They sound similar but the Dune theme is more spike in its sound when this is more wave like
@@MaxMustermann-hy9in Yes, it's richer. But it is obviously influenced by Dune.
@@LuisManuelLealDias Which Dune..? The original movie back in the 80s?
@@matthewcoster5535 you're on TH-cam. You can search "dune main theme", and yes, obviously the 1984 one, given the current one didn't exist when mass effect was created (doh)
I honestly think Harbinger and Sovereign's names were swapped. Sovereign was meant to usher in the other Reapers and be a warning of their might. Ya know, like a _Harbinger_ does? Meanwhile Harbinger was the leader of the Reapers, or at least as much of a leader as one can be of a collective consciousness. So he'd be the Sovereign of the Reapers.
Just a bit odd.
I mean, Sovereign is alone on its mission, it *is* sovereign. And Harbinger is at the helm of the Reaper invasion
YOU ARE NOT SAREN........
what is this? some kind of VI interface?
RUDIMENTARY CREATURES OF BLOOD AND FLESH. YOU TOUCH MY MIND FUMBLING IN IGNORANCE, INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING
@@blueshit199 RUDIMENTARY CREATURES OF BLOOD AND FLESH, YOU TOUCH MY MIND FUMBLING IN IGNORANCE. iNCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING.
@@NoNo-vn8de i don't think it's a VI...