Thank you. I am a first generation Latina female raised within shame culture. I have a narcissistic father that reinforced patriarchy. My mother used religion to keep me subdued. I was raised in America but could not participate in traditional western living. I also have CPTSD and ADHD. I was and have been alienated by my family, excluded from inclusiveness b/c I am neurodivergent. I have spent years on my own without the "help/benefit" of traditional friend groups, family, & community but I am better for it. (Being alone does not equal lonely.) I am proud of myself for not being a contributing member of shame culture. Thank you Tim for the lecture, I hope more people see the pervasive issues that shaming causes within a country, a family, a person and it's unnecessary. I pray more people strive to think more independently and act with more empathy and compassion in these future days. 🙏
I'm half Italian and was raised in Italy. Most of the points you raised (except honour killings which nowadays are illegal but were tolerated in Italy until as recently as 1981) describe Italian culture. Italian culture is very much a shame based culture. It annoys me when people romanticise Italian culture because, while there are many wonderful things about it, it's also a codependent culture and there are many aspects of it that are unhealthy. Most outsiders only see the glossy exterior (meant to impress others) but don't really see what's behind the façade. I've been shunned because I've chosen to leave the group and become healthy. It's a lonely path to travel and only now, when I look back, can I see exactly how unhealthy it all was/is. I've had difficulty when trying to bring it up in therapy with a non Italian therapist (I don't currently live in Italy) who doesn't understand Italian culture. Ive tried explaining it but they minimise things and say "well that's just the culture" and, as a result, I've been left feeling unheard and that they don't get my point. Thank you for this video. It's very validating.
Those MF's are seriously "cultured". I had them stalking, attacking and harming me severely. For honor. But American ones transplanted to NJ and NY. They scare me now. I don't go near honor based cultures now and am SO CAREFUL where I'll go due to accusing men of abuse and it nearly killing me to do so. Other shame based inner-city cultures killed my pets, stalked me for years after a minor offense, I reported rapists and had to leave home for safety fearing he'd murder me. He attacked me at a very dangerous corner in Seattle. I was in fear a friend of his was running me over with a car when a man did a hit and run on my dog and I and left us bleeding. I don't tell people anymore in fear of being 5150'd and put away. I just am grateful that nobody directly around me knows me, knows my history of reporting violent sex offenders, running from family as I know it will repeat again. I lost friends who were Muslim to suicide, eventually who'd Westernized. There's these remarkable similarities in each of these. I'm so glad I'm currently safe. I was insanely devastated when I felt I'd lost it and had my most severe nervous breakdown ever. They're REALLY SICK PEOPLE. I wonder if they're aliens now.
Straight up hood black culture. As if black people don't feel shame enough for history and our position in socity we shame each other endlessly and it's ridiculous.
for some reason regular therapy shy away from narratives such as these, probably because they are themselves complicit. The vast majority of people in the "mental health" industry have been shown to be more messed up than myself - they just choose not to see it. That was always my problem, I couldn't unsee it.
My life was changed when I found Tim Fletcher's videos. I'm 64 years old and had been in and out of therapy for decades before I understood what complex trauma was and how the trauma I had experienced growing up in a violent, alcoholic family. I finally realized that loving myself and letting go shame was the key to be able to finally feel comfortable in my own skin.
Thank you from a trans guy who has managed to escape from a shame based abusive family home. My escape has then motivated my mom to leave her narcissistic husband and finally spread her wings, move out and start a new life, putting her children first.
Every African family. Shame culture is very common . I found out my father has two families he’s kept seperate for years. When I revealed the truth , I was ex- communicated from the famiky by my father. The other family he ‘abandoned’ as children have also been cast away. The only relationships maintained are those who have been threatened with subjugation and/ or defend his actions (like my mother and older sister). Shame culture is an insidious , toxic element. The sad part about it is that you can only save yourself (and then your children). The society defends the narcissistic abuser. It’s futile to attempt to change it.
Agree 100%. Same with my vietnamese Family. Everything has an agenda. No unconditional love. No true selves. People are pro manipulators. I also think this is a poor peoples mentality where people are dependent on each other to reach materialistic stability and safety. Individualism is a luxury good in highly developed countries.
Where I grew up, “honor” meant honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, and keeping commitments; not image or status. In that case, shame was the consequence for literally breaking trust by lying or cheating or not keeping commitments; not just a form of self-protection for the people in authority. My partner on the other hand had a similar family culture to the one described here, and it was all about protecting the addict from the consequences of his actions.
In Italy we have lots of those aspects that you described. I actually realized lately how toxic is the value system in Italy. For example "respect the elderly" yes I agree with that if the elderly person is not a pedophile or a ass..le for example. Being an elderly person does not equal to be holy person.
This video helps me make sense of my family of origin. I've been going to counseling off and on since I was 34, and I was never able to make sense of my experience. I am 67 and this video says it all. Thank you, Pastor Fletcher.
My mom always said Shame on you , or she shamed herself or others. Her mom did the same thing. I never let her say it to my children. But boy has it stuck on me my whole life. Generational shame..
This is one of the most eyeopening video ive seen in a LONG time!! But i can see this SO much in the US aswell!!! And my own ”western” culture family. Strong Family values, expectation of gender roles, transphobia, competition, men work and women stay at home etc! All based in a religion (that never talks about family values or honor). Wow. My eyes are opened now!
Never has anyone articulated my central pain like this. Ive completely blocked out the memories associated with how my value was attached to what i wore. I now know how painful that was to me. Thank you Tim 🙏
Young American explained why she left Croatia: "In Croatia people constantly express intrusive opinion about matters which are none of their business. The most irritating things were rude people." (poslovni hr) Young American explained why she escaped from Croatia: "Often I heard Croats intruding why am I eating something, or commenting about what I wore. There is no such thing in America, we allow people to be what they want to be."
My family do the “she’s not one of us, not a person worth bothering with,” so they ignore and devalue me. Some actively smear me with whatever resentment and stories they dig up. Tightens their bond and justifies exiling or ignoring me. I was pathologically loyal to family-tried to fulfill parts of parents roles to make up for our parents neglect and absence of support. Parents have died and apparently I am no longer necessary, or worse blamed for not being a “good enough” parent figure. Trying to create a reciprocal relationship as equals was an absolute dealbreaker. Heartbreaking 💔 that I wasn’t consciously aware I was investing in a family that would ultimately betray and discard me. There were clues I just didn’t recognize or accept that it was reality. Radical acceptance is the only way through this loss/disappointment.
Thank you very much! ... ich erlebe aktuell eine ähnlich schmerzvolle Geschichte die mir das Herz zerreisst. Ich werde nicht als ein eigener Mensch gesehen, nur wenn ich exakt mache was man von mir verlangt (und was man verlangt ist entwürdigend) dann bin ich Teil des menschlichen Kosmos. Wenn nicht, dann werde ich als böse angesehen und nur noch verachtet. ... grosse Erkenntnis die einem das Herz brechen kann.
Interesting comment for me. In my extended family there were members that would demand familial loyalty from me while actively rejecting, shunning me and devaluing me. There was one cousin that did it so much it could have probably been considered a harassment or even cyberstalking case. I was supposed to always remain respectful to everyone though. They did it to my mom when she was younger too. The hypocrisy is amazing.
I've been following your content, and am very grateful for your perspectives. When I saw this video title, It stopped me dead in my tracks. Since becoming aware of Brene Brown's work, I've been operating on a thesis, that our entire consumerism system is built off of shame.
@@terrymcnamara9192 I'd likely thumbs up you if you didn't agree - lol, because I've seen recently, that I view the world through my Mother's (first Bully) narcissistic biases. At 56 years of age I get to figure out who I really am-- Woo Hoo!
5:35 SHAME BASE FAMILY AUTHORITARIAN INGREDIENTS (Two Parts) 1. How to make themselves look good 2. How to get what you want This dynamic describes the "Honor Culture"
So true, half my extended family is Philippino and they always call themselves family oriented but I know they know nothing about relationship dynamics or how to clearly communicate or assert boundaries. A lot of cultural groups, especially Mexicans call themselves family oriented but they just flaunt their righteousness when they can conveniently appear superior to someone, and that someone in my experience is often times a black person. Most people that call themselves family oriented are hypocrites, their soul is rotten but their outfit is brand new.
I learned, how to live by taking the LIFT program. One very significant lesson was; That in a healthy world, we would all be equal. No suoerior/inferior people. We are all equal. I respect that. And I remind myself everyday, how “unhealthy” it is to judge others.
I feel less than. Like you're ok, I'm not okay. Like the book written a long time ago. I look at others trying to be accepted by then and I'm scrambling to try to be who they would be friends with. I never succed at that.🥱
May i recommend being a good friend to yourself rather than looking for validation from others who have their own mess going on. Once you can do that, the people who like you as you are will start showing up.
@@lisacurtis8162 oh I get it ! I like your honesty. You have the awareness. Your job is to championship your authentic self. ( that word, I know). Meaning, listen to your inner wisdom. Catch that nanosecond of awareness and be with it. Slowly you will learn, life is temporary, no one really cares about you, like you do. People are too busy checking themself. It’s ok to be you. Make a list of your own wants and your own needs. Meet those needs, those wants, you will then discover you, Your self. You matter. You are ok.
WOW. Thank you so mr. Fletcher. My husband survived a shame culture society. everything you've said, described, analysed, every word, is exactly what he's experienced. thankfully he had love and conviction that there's a true, authentic life for him elsewhere. we r parents and grandparents, have built a loving family...which is unacknowledged by his biological extended clannish family. I listened to you, and it was as if you were telling his life-story untill he courageously left them behind. this talk is amazing, I know it will influence those that so need it. KUDUS mr. Fletcher.❤
This topic is one of the most important and impactful aspects how people treat each other and if trauma repeats and repeats or if it eventually will stop in the future. Thankyou Tim for your incredible work and putting this into understandable words. 🙏❤
I moved to a shame-based society without realizing it and it makes me feel gross every day. It has so much in common with abusive families so I'm happy to hear you discussing all of this in great detail. Thank you for your insight!
This teaching is an absolute blessing. Thank you, Mr. Fletcher, for all that you do for humanity, you're a benediction, I hope your cup remains forever full.
Thank you Tim, I have been on a quest to find out about where my traumas come from and at first, it's easy to point towards your parents. Then you start to wonder, how did THEY end up like this? And their parents? To see a video that explains an overall cultural explanation is wonderful, it is what I was searching for. Because to blame my parents, or any human being, is just another easy lookaway trick that is spawned in this shame baes culture. We have to get a helicopter view to see what's going on, how it's affecting all of us.
I absolutely love your channel. Thank you so much for sharing so much valuable information to the world. The world needs this information of understanding the human mind and societies and the effects on the individual
I thank you very much for not only for the in formation you teach everyone, but also your delivery of that information. I understand it! Alot of folks just don't organize their presentation in ways that a trauma mind can absorb, then put in practice. Thank you, Tim for being such an influential force in my journey to me. You really have saved my life, (hyperbole be damned), it is true! I hope you are happy and healthy, too. If I can ever lend you a hand, a shoulder, a minute, anything, it would be my pleasure. Take care of yourself Tim!
ان الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بأنفسهم It's from the Quran. Although I consider myself an ex Muslim now, I love this verse and see it as one of the most profound verses in the Quran. It translates to 'Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.'
You are absolutely right. So much shame in the western culture and it seeps into everything. It has got into the medical systems, governments, businesses etc etc etc it goes on and on. I was raised by a mother who is deeply in the shame culture. Christianity has jumped on that band wagon too. I was raised to feel so much shame. My father the same but around less as the main income earner but I remember as far back as being a toddler, feeling sad and just wasn’t to be picked up and cuddled and loved and I was made to feel shame for that.
Yes l relate to that, the not being picked up shame, and now it’s very hard to recognise needs and ask for them to be met, expect others will sense the deep shame and be repelled , it’s a tough road
@@raccoons_stole_my_account I am not sure where you are at with beliefs and faith so I want to be careful how I respond. God doesn’t bring shame. Many a man has bought shame into it for sure.
This discussion/ lecture is very insightful and informative. It brings in how cultures and perceptions of religions can destort our perceptions of reality in the web of misunderstanding that we can easily call the matrix. We can continue being blue pilled and living by the status quo, or we can swallow the red pill that you're offering through your astute observations. This is a very spiritual process and has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with relationships. It comes down to the truth that we all seek, and it's that of unconditional love and acceptance from a loving Creator, instead of fear, punishment, and hiding behind the mask we call narcissism. I will certainly recommend you as a candidate for the Noble Peace Prize, but I find it ironic that a peace prize would be named after the destructive force of dynamite. I will conclude with the reinforcement that we cannot change anyone but ourselves, and in doing so, we become the change we desire to see in our brothers and our sisters. Who is our brother and our sister? Jesus, as well as John Lennon, said succinctly, "it's everyone you meet," as we're all in the image of God. We're here just as a vapor until we all arrive home, and the higher power of the God you serve asks, what have you learned on your breif journey to earth?
Here in Malaysia, if a Muslim couple conceives a child before they married, the child cannot take the father's name even if the parents are married later, even before the child is born. The child must be named bin/binti Abdullah (son or daughter of one of the servants of God) instead of her father's name. Because supposedly if they were not married, the woman could have slept with someone who was not her husband. Same goes for those who don't marry later (the man does not wish to be responsible) or women who were raped. (Abortion is not allowed for Muslims.) The unwed mother is treated badly by doctors and nurses, abused and cursed at every prenatal appointment, humiliated and slapped in the delivery room. The child bears this cross for the rest of their life. At school, they are abused by teachers and humiliated by their classmates. One child's teacher failed her in an exam because of this. Many unwed girls and young women who got pregnant dump their newborn babies in the drain, toilet or river, or throw them out the window of apartment buildings. Others abandon them at the mosque or public toilets (where they gave birth). They cannot live with a lifetime of shame. The community takes it upon themselves to shame them. Doctors, nurses and teachers included. Rape victims are sent to reform school where they spend their days reading the holy book and repenting. Because they must have done something to entice the man. Men may get sent to prison but very rarely does this happen because women are too ashamed to report them, or the man can marry them (even children) and the rape is legalised and shame covered up. (Marital rape is legal even if you were not married at the time.) Never are men sent to reform school and never are they shamed. Never. They are seen as heroes by other men for having added another notch to their bedposts.
Thank you. 😊👋 It is live-saving for many of us. To undersand and unlearn all these false working and most importantly to improve and get a better life.
I would love to hear even more about “shame” culture. I have been looking for good analysis, and this was that..thank-you! I would love to read a good book that further delves into this.
he's referencing Ruth Benedict "Patterns of Culture" (you can find a complete pdf online) and Jayson Georges & Mark D. Baker "Ministering in Honor-Shame Cultures" (I only found some excerpts) the topic is mad interesting 👍
Tim, I love you brother!! Thank you so much for helping me! You’re a great blessing! What educational track or degree must one take to learn what you know?
I have been in and around shame culture to the point of it causing suicide. i have CPTSD and a a recent history of very severe self-harm leading to suicide and isolation and it was all from victim blaming and shaming women who report murderers and rapists. My head blew up until i was so sick, I could not move, compulsively started binge drinking out of nowhere shaming women who had left patriarchy and religion, nearly died from them attacking me and had to move, change everything, lost everything I owned from them, ended up with seizures on my floor calling 911 and leaving my home and everything behind afraid I was going to be murdered. Nobody understands it. Really. I left religion, accused my father of abuse, went through deadly stalking, sex abuse, had pets killed, was stalked by the same man for years, worked until my hands burst to get away from them and they came back (generally speaking - to murder, death threaten, oppress and take all basic human rights from me to see me enslaved as a woman). As a child, my father put me into mind-control cults and even hospitals with honor roll grades, these places were closed for torture of kids, medical support was abused on me (Mental illness I didn't have) and he nearly killed me over and over and over again for religious differences. It is NOT just eastern cultures that are SHAME culture. Many are- inner-city, my father was not Muslim, he had lived in Iran but became a Christian, it's funny - you end up with people around you dying from the same. Inevitably. I feel them with me everywhere I go crazy-making, molesting, harming and putting me to sleep - causing suicide to survive, which nobody else believes in, either but those who just *do*. I never would have until it happened to me - it's all from calling men RAPIST. I just AVOID all forms of honor culture, know it encompasses 70% of the world that 30% is not honor based culture. I am happy to remain in the smaller portion of the pie as I CANNOT UNDERSTAND the point of it. I don't need much and my image means nothing to me. I avoid and run from honor, image and religion based cultures now without even hesitating to attempt to get to know the person. You get to a point as a woman where you feel like you're sitting with someone who is murdering you. If you're severely tortured the way that i have been down to breaking my bones for calling men abusive, you'd get it and stay the F AWAY from them.
If anyone thinks that western culture wasn’t the same as other cultures are now they’re very. naive.I grew up in the 80”s and I wasn’t allowed to talk to my grandfather because he was a man,my uncle is still an extremely narcissistic man
My background is Eastern European on my mom's side ( my great great grandparents immigrated from Poland and Ukraine in WWI ). Much of what you have explained in this lecture describe my mom's mentality. Does Eastern European cultures fall into more of a shame culture rather than Western culture? My dad's family has been in the US since colonial days, and he seems to have a totally different mentality than my mom ( he is centered on love and truth, no fear). I've been trying to track where the dysfunction is rooted! Thank you.
Try googling "guilt shame cultures" and there is the whole world to discover. Apparently, there's a mix in eastern Europe (similar as Balkan region, which was my point of interest) so I'm not surprised you're seeng the difference in yr family. There can be other factors tho, of course. Guilt/shame model can't explain everything. But the topic is really mad interesting 🤓
Yes they do fall into shame culture spectrum, definitely. That being said, there are very little studies about psychology of the post-soviet countries.
Thank you for the insight - I hadn't even considered the Soviet element in immagrant Eastern European culture. It probably has played a large role in shaping the mindset.
Social capital reminds me why people don't just date who they like. They date who their parents like. The many times I've been shunned and deemed undateable because of status. Sad
Listened to you on Theo’s channel. Love your explanations and advice. You are describing my toxic family under my narcisstic ex husband. How are these wretches all the same.
I feel still intacked empathy mindful that coach help me to handles negative impossible situations to have harder shell. I did as copeing umdeny whats happening distraction. He said i self soothed healthy.
Very insightful video: learning about shame-based cultures is an eye-opener for me! I am only half-way watching the video, but I would also like to add that IMO, shame-based cultures are not specific to the Global South. As far as I am concerned, I would suggest that societies and cultures that have experienced a considerable amount of trauma may become shame/reputation-based to a certain extent, as a mal-adaptative way to deal with the trauma, when healing has not occurred :) For example, I currently live in a Western European country, and a lot of what I see here are of signs of a shame-based society, with a generous amount of unchallenged societal or bureaucratic rules, often said to be needed for efficiency, but in practice sometimes appearing to be there to protecting some sort of reputation or hierarchy. Again, IMO it is nothing typical of that country, but for someone who has live in several continents and countries, IMO it (Shame-based setting) is not a North/South difference, but rather a human tendency that our societies need to overcome. Something like a random initial setting, or a setting occurring because of some troubles occurring on the way (trauma).
When did he say it was something that only applies to ‘global south’ countries? He made it pretty clear in the beginning that western culture was included in there 😅
@@artisticagiHi! Yes, I remembered his statement at the beginning, however I believe that it was not enough :) See, he certainly does a lot of research on the topic and has developed his own expertise which I appreciate a lot. For this very same reason, I think he could have gone a little further by balancing the examples, with representative ones from the West, to further challenge the views of his audience :)
Isn't everybody like this? I mean in every single culture, society, company, family, group of friends? Why do you think all companies have "our values/principels"? with diferent rules of course, but the mechanism is there every single time.
It,s strange how many of the examples of family and societal shaming are expressed through womens "shame", which seems to me to be exaccerbated much more these days via the sexaulization of women within social media also. I remember the days of the late '60s when you could not really tell the difference between men and women when looking from behind them as long hair and jeans were worn by both.!
Thank you. I am a first generation Latina female raised within shame culture. I have a narcissistic father that reinforced patriarchy. My mother used religion to keep me subdued. I was raised in America but could not participate in traditional western living. I also have CPTSD and ADHD. I was and have been alienated by my family, excluded from inclusiveness b/c I am neurodivergent. I have spent years on my own without the "help/benefit" of traditional friend groups, family, & community but I am better for it. (Being alone does not equal lonely.) I am proud of myself for not being a contributing member of shame culture. Thank you Tim for the lecture, I hope more people see the pervasive issues that shaming causes within a country, a family, a person and it's unnecessary. I pray more people strive to think more independently and act with more empathy and compassion in these future days. 🙏
Hi
Are
❤👍
Thank you for sharing this ❤ very relatable 😢 xxxxxxx peace and love
Extremely relatable. Getting away from them all and being alone has been the most peaceful I have ever felt in my entire life. Head up, hermana🫶
I'm half Italian and was raised in Italy. Most of the points you raised (except honour killings which nowadays are illegal but were tolerated in Italy until as recently as 1981) describe Italian culture. Italian culture is very much a shame based culture. It annoys me when people romanticise Italian culture because, while there are many wonderful things about it, it's also a codependent culture and there are many aspects of it that are unhealthy. Most outsiders only see the glossy exterior (meant to impress others) but don't really see what's behind the façade. I've been shunned because I've chosen to leave the group and become healthy. It's a lonely path to travel and only now, when I look back, can I see exactly how unhealthy it all was/is. I've had difficulty when trying to bring it up in therapy with a non Italian therapist (I don't currently live in Italy) who doesn't understand Italian culture. Ive tried explaining it but they minimise things and say "well that's just the culture" and, as a result, I've been left feeling unheard and that they don't get my point. Thank you for this video. It's very validating.
Those MF's are seriously "cultured". I had them stalking, attacking and harming me severely. For honor. But American ones transplanted to NJ and NY. They scare me now. I don't go near honor based cultures now and am SO CAREFUL where I'll go due to accusing men of abuse and it nearly killing me to do so. Other shame based inner-city cultures killed my pets, stalked me for years after a minor offense, I reported rapists and had to leave home for safety fearing he'd murder me. He attacked me at a very dangerous corner in Seattle. I was in fear a friend of his was running me over with a car when a man did a hit and run on my dog and I and left us bleeding. I don't tell people anymore in fear of being 5150'd and put away. I just am grateful that nobody directly around me knows me, knows my history of reporting violent sex offenders, running from family as I know it will repeat again. I lost friends who were Muslim to suicide, eventually who'd Westernized. There's these remarkable similarities in each of these. I'm so glad I'm currently safe. I was insanely devastated when I felt I'd lost it and had my most severe nervous breakdown ever. They're REALLY SICK PEOPLE. I wonder if they're aliens now.
Straight up hood black culture. As if black people don't feel shame enough for history and our position in socity we shame each other endlessly and it's ridiculous.
Recently discovered you and I’m realizing things from these videos that 10 years of therapy haven’t uncovered! Thank you! I feel understood.
Ive been through a dozen veterans administration therapists and none of them are as helpful as tim fletcher videos.
for some reason regular therapy shy away from narratives such as these, probably because they are themselves complicit. The vast majority of people in the "mental health" industry have been shown to be more messed up than myself - they just choose not to see it. That was always my problem, I couldn't unsee it.
My life was changed when I found Tim Fletcher's videos. I'm 64 years old and had been in and out of therapy for decades before I understood what complex trauma was and how the trauma I had experienced growing up in a violent, alcoholic family. I finally realized that loving myself and letting go shame was the key to be able to finally feel comfortable in my own skin.
Thank you from a trans guy who has managed to escape from a shame based abusive family home. My escape has then motivated my mom to leave her narcissistic husband and finally spread her wings, move out and start a new life, putting her children first.
Every African family. Shame culture is very common . I found out my father has two families he’s kept seperate for years. When I revealed the truth , I was ex- communicated from the famiky by my father.
The other family he ‘abandoned’ as children have also been cast away.
The only relationships maintained are those who have been threatened with subjugation and/ or defend his actions (like my mother and older sister).
Shame culture is an insidious , toxic element. The sad part about it is that you can only save yourself (and then your children). The society defends the narcissistic abuser. It’s futile to attempt to change it.
I call it “Bullying Culture”.
Agree 100%. Same with my vietnamese Family. Everything has an agenda. No unconditional love. No true selves. People are pro manipulators. I also think this is a poor peoples mentality where people are dependent on each other to reach materialistic stability and safety. Individualism is a luxury good in highly developed countries.
Where I grew up, “honor” meant honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, and keeping commitments; not image or status. In that case, shame was the consequence for literally breaking trust by lying or cheating or not keeping commitments; not just a form of self-protection for the people in authority. My partner on the other hand had a similar family culture to the one described here, and it was all about protecting the addict from the consequences of his actions.
In Italy we have lots of those aspects that you described. I actually realized lately how toxic is the value system in Italy. For example "respect the elderly" yes I agree with that if the elderly person is not a pedophile or a ass..le for example. Being an elderly person does not equal to be holy person.
Thanks!
This video helps me make sense of my family of origin. I've been going to counseling off and on since I was 34, and I was never able to make sense of my experience. I am 67 and this video says it all. Thank you, Pastor Fletcher.
My mom always said Shame on you , or she shamed herself or others. Her mom did the same thing. I never let her say it to my children. But boy has it stuck on me my whole life. Generational shame..
This is one of the most eyeopening video ive seen in a LONG time!! But i can see this SO much in the US aswell!!! And my own ”western” culture family. Strong Family values, expectation of gender roles, transphobia, competition, men work and women stay at home etc! All based in a religion (that never talks about family values or honor). Wow. My eyes are opened now!
Never has anyone articulated my central pain like this.
Ive completely blocked out the memories associated with how my value was attached to what i wore.
I now know how painful that was to me. Thank you Tim 🙏
Young American explained why she left Croatia:
"In Croatia people constantly express intrusive opinion about matters which are none of their business. The most irritating things were rude people."
(poslovni hr)
Young American explained why she escaped from Croatia:
"Often I heard Croats intruding why am I eating something, or commenting about what I wore. There is no such thing in America, we allow people to be what they want to be."
My family do the “she’s not one of us, not a person worth bothering with,” so they ignore and devalue me. Some actively smear me with whatever resentment and stories they dig up. Tightens their bond and justifies exiling or ignoring me. I was pathologically loyal to family-tried to fulfill parts of parents roles to make up for our parents neglect and absence of support. Parents have died and apparently I am no longer necessary, or worse blamed for not being a “good enough” parent figure. Trying to create a reciprocal relationship as equals was an absolute dealbreaker. Heartbreaking 💔 that I wasn’t consciously aware I was investing in a family that would ultimately betray and discard me. There were clues I just didn’t recognize or accept that it was reality. Radical acceptance is the only way through this loss/disappointment.
Thank you very much! ... ich erlebe aktuell eine ähnlich schmerzvolle Geschichte die mir das Herz zerreisst. Ich werde nicht als ein eigener Mensch gesehen, nur wenn ich exakt mache was man von mir verlangt (und was man verlangt ist entwürdigend) dann bin ich Teil des menschlichen Kosmos. Wenn nicht, dann werde ich als böse angesehen und nur noch verachtet. ... grosse Erkenntnis die einem das Herz brechen kann.
Interesting comment for me. In my extended family there were members that would demand familial loyalty from me while actively rejecting, shunning me and devaluing me. There was one cousin that did it so much it could have probably been considered a harassment or even cyberstalking case. I was supposed to always remain respectful to everyone though. They did it to my mom when she was younger too. The hypocrisy is amazing.
I've been following your content, and am very grateful for your perspectives. When I saw this video title, It stopped me dead in my tracks. Since becoming aware of Brene Brown's work, I've been operating on a thesis, that our entire consumerism system is built off of shame.
Agree
@@terrymcnamara9192 I'd likely thumbs up you if you didn't agree - lol, because I've seen recently, that I view the world through my Mother's (first Bully) narcissistic biases. At 56 years of age I get to figure out who I really am-- Woo Hoo!
@@AVADAMS1967 I also have my mother’s negativity, but there is plenty of evidence that consumerism relies on our shame
Shame is exploited by the system to control us
5:35 SHAME BASE FAMILY AUTHORITARIAN INGREDIENTS (Two Parts)
1. How to make themselves look good
2. How to get what you want
This dynamic describes the "Honor Culture"
Real Honor=Mutual Respect +Integrity
Interesting standpoint 😇
So true, half my extended family is Philippino and they always call themselves family oriented but I know they know nothing about relationship dynamics or how to clearly communicate or assert boundaries. A lot of cultural groups, especially Mexicans call themselves family oriented but they just flaunt their righteousness when they can conveniently appear superior to someone, and that someone in my experience is often times a black person. Most people that call themselves family oriented are hypocrites, their soul is rotten but their outfit is brand new.
“Appear…” I really don’t mean to sound crass, but when it comes to family dynamics there is no “appear” about it.
@@nickthompson1812 True. I love family and togetherness but there's so much hypocrisy that it makes it so hard to trust anyone anymore.
I learned, how to live by taking the LIFT program.
One very significant lesson was; That in a healthy world, we would all be equal. No suoerior/inferior people. We are all equal. I respect that. And I remind myself everyday, how “unhealthy” it is to judge others.
I feel less than. Like you're ok, I'm not okay. Like the book written a long time ago. I look at others trying to be accepted by then and I'm scrambling to try to be who they would be friends with. I never succed at that.🥱
May i recommend being a good friend to yourself rather than looking for validation from others who have their own mess going on. Once you can do that, the people who like you as you are will start showing up.
@@lisacurtis8162 oh I get it ! I like your honesty. You have the awareness. Your job is to championship your authentic self. ( that word, I know). Meaning, listen to your inner wisdom. Catch that nanosecond of awareness and be with it.
Slowly you will learn, life is temporary, no one really cares about you, like you do.
People are too busy checking themself.
It’s ok to be you. Make a list of your own wants and your own needs. Meet those needs, those wants, you will then discover you, Your self. You matter.
You are ok.
@@middleofnowhere1313 that’s correct.
Mindset is not the key, it is the lock.
@@lisacurtis8162 I remember a book, it was, it’s ok, to not be ok.
Start with you. Start with caring for YOU.
Recovery is a 🎁 gift.
WOW. Thank you so mr. Fletcher. My husband survived a shame culture society. everything you've said, described, analysed, every word, is exactly what he's experienced. thankfully he had love and conviction that there's a true, authentic life for him elsewhere. we r parents and grandparents, have built a loving family...which is unacknowledged by his biological extended clannish family. I listened to you, and it was as if you were telling his life-story untill he courageously left them behind. this talk is amazing, I know it will influence those that so need it. KUDUS mr. Fletcher.❤
This topic is one of the most important and impactful aspects how people treat each other and if trauma repeats and repeats or if it eventually will stop in the future. Thankyou Tim for your incredible work and putting this into understandable words. 🙏❤
You are just describing growing up in the south.
Thanks for clarification of dysfunctional family is more than family.
tim u are light years beyond genius.
I moved to a shame-based society without realizing it and it makes me feel gross every day. It has so much in common with abusive families so I'm happy to hear you discussing all of this in great detail. Thank you for your insight!
Thank you for your work and being willing to say difficult things 🙏
This is part of the word of whatever god is. Thank you.
Saw you on my favorite podcast and comedian Theo you guys crushed it, way to go Tim
If you can share links for those thanks so much. :)
1000% accurate. Hope you do a talk on family scapegoating next!
Excellent Excellent presentation thank you
This is what I grew up in an atmosphere of and passed some of it down the generations
This one video explains the context for my entire life.
This teaching is an absolute blessing. Thank you, Mr. Fletcher, for all that you do for humanity, you're a benediction, I hope your cup remains forever full.
Thank you Tim, I have been on a quest to find out about where my traumas come from and at first, it's easy to point towards your parents. Then you start to wonder, how did THEY end up like this? And their parents? To see a video that explains an overall cultural explanation is wonderful, it is what I was searching for. Because to blame my parents, or any human being, is just another easy lookaway trick that is spawned in this shame baes culture. We have to get a helicopter view to see what's going on, how it's affecting all of us.
Of course this stuff passes through generations. We shouldn’t blame anyone but be aware of where it comes from and try to break the cycle.
Wow, the best ever description of our shame based cultures
I dont have a dad😞😞 its so hard to navigate life without a loving and supportive dad.. i do have God tho💛💛💛 i believe he is always watching over me❤❤
That was such a good explanation of shame culture! I see its elements even though I live in Europe.
Grew up fundamentalist Christian in the South. Sounds very familiar.
Raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Perfect description of what my childood looked like.
Like...I finally feel understood. My life now makes sense. I got a bunch of crap because I don't bow down to tyrants
Wow, this is freeing
OMG my eyes almost popped out of my head ! So much truth in this. Thank you for the enlightment!!!
Thanks very much - very helpful and informative.
Mr. Tim Fletcher, Thank you for helping me understand myself and my life.
holy moly! such important information. Bravo, TF!!!! love, awe, and gratitude from here.
I am from a GypsyTraveller culture. And the shame-based aspect is a plain fact!
your background is very interesting!
Thanks
40:00 hospitality become an obligation rather than to feel good for one own sake
41:20 honesty and truth become the backburner in present of appearance
I absolutely love your channel. Thank you so much for sharing so much valuable information to the world. The world needs this information of understanding the human mind and societies and the effects on the individual
Thank you, Tim this is very helpful and loving
I thank you very much for not only for the in formation you teach everyone, but also your delivery of that information.
I understand it!
Alot of folks just don't organize their presentation in ways that a trauma mind can absorb, then put in practice.
Thank you, Tim for being such an influential force in my journey to me.
You really have saved my life, (hyperbole be damned), it is true!
I hope you are happy and healthy, too.
If I can ever lend you a hand, a shoulder, a minute, anything, it would be my pleasure.
Take care of yourself Tim!
There is a really cool saying from a religion not our West's own: a condition of a people will not change until the people themselves change. ❤❤❤❤❤
ان الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بأنفسهم
It's from the Quran. Although I consider myself an ex Muslim now, I love this verse and see it as one of the most profound verses in the Quran. It translates to
'Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.'
Thank you so much. Wonderful presentation!
You are absolutely right. So much shame in the western culture and it seeps into everything. It has got into the medical systems, governments, businesses etc etc etc it goes on and on. I was raised by a mother who is deeply in the shame culture. Christianity has jumped on that band wagon too. I was raised to feel so much shame. My father the same but around less as the main income earner but I remember as far back as being a toddler, feeling sad and just wasn’t to be picked up and cuddled and loved and I was made to feel shame for that.
Yes l relate to that, the not being picked up shame, and now it’s very hard to recognise needs and ask for them to be met, expect others will sense the deep shame and be repelled , it’s a tough road
>Christianity has jumped on that band wagon too.
Christianity created this bandwagon.
@@raccoons_stole_my_account I am not sure where you are at with beliefs and faith so I want to be careful how I respond. God doesn’t bring shame. Many a man has bought shame into it for sure.
This discussion/ lecture is very insightful and informative.
It brings in how cultures and perceptions of religions can destort our perceptions of reality in the web of misunderstanding that we can easily call the matrix.
We can continue being blue pilled and living by the status quo, or we can swallow the red pill that you're offering through your astute observations.
This is a very spiritual process and has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with relationships.
It comes down to the truth that we all seek, and it's that of unconditional love and acceptance from a loving Creator, instead of fear, punishment, and hiding behind the mask we call narcissism.
I will certainly recommend you as a candidate for the Noble Peace Prize, but I find it ironic that a peace prize would be named after the destructive force of dynamite. I will conclude with the reinforcement that we cannot change anyone but ourselves, and in doing so, we become the change we desire to see in our brothers and our sisters. Who is our brother and our sister? Jesus, as well as John Lennon, said succinctly, "it's everyone you meet," as we're all in the image of God. We're here just as a vapor until we all arrive home, and the higher power of the God you serve asks, what have you learned on your breif journey to earth?
Thank you, Tim
Here in Malaysia, if a Muslim couple conceives a child before they married, the child cannot take the father's name even if the parents are married later, even before the child is born. The child must be named bin/binti Abdullah (son or daughter of one of the servants of God) instead of her father's name. Because supposedly if they were not married, the woman could have slept with someone who was not her husband. Same goes for those who don't marry later (the man does not wish to be responsible) or women who were raped. (Abortion is not allowed for Muslims.) The unwed mother is treated badly by doctors and nurses, abused and cursed at every prenatal appointment, humiliated and slapped in the delivery room. The child bears this cross for the rest of their life. At school, they are abused by teachers and humiliated by their classmates. One child's teacher failed her in an exam because of this. Many unwed girls and young women who got pregnant dump their newborn babies in the drain, toilet or river, or throw them out the window of apartment buildings. Others abandon them at the mosque or public toilets (where they gave birth). They cannot live with a lifetime of shame. The community takes it upon themselves to shame them. Doctors, nurses and teachers included. Rape victims are sent to reform school where they spend their days reading the holy book and repenting. Because they must have done something to entice the man. Men may get sent to prison but very rarely does this happen because women are too ashamed to report them, or the man can marry them (even children) and the rape is legalised and shame covered up. (Marital rape is legal even if you were not married at the time.) Never are men sent to reform school and never are they shamed. Never. They are seen as heroes by other men for having added another notch to their bedposts.
This is great , thankyou .
Thank you. 😊👋
It is live-saving for many of us. To undersand and unlearn all these false working and most importantly to improve and get a better life.
31:00 superiority based on wording
Brilliant.
Thanks Tim 🙏
Well, welcome to another Friday night 🎉🎉🎉 ❤always looking forward to dive in and learn. Thanks Mr. Fletcher.
I am so very thankful for this teaching! 🤯🤯🙌🏼🥰
I would love to hear even more about “shame” culture. I have been looking for good analysis, and this was that..thank-you! I would love to read a good book that further delves into this.
he's referencing Ruth Benedict "Patterns of Culture" (you can find a complete pdf online)
and Jayson Georges & Mark D. Baker "Ministering in Honor-Shame Cultures" (I only found some excerpts)
the topic is mad interesting 👍
@@anabltc friend, thank-you so much for that! 🤗
This particular one is really good!
You're right on. I have to find the time to get to the other 36 videos, so I can change my life. Too busy in constant crisis.
Tim, I love you brother!! Thank you so much for helping me! You’re a great blessing! What educational track or degree must one take to learn what you know?
I have been in and around shame culture to the point of it causing suicide. i have CPTSD and a a recent history of very severe self-harm leading to suicide and isolation and it was all from victim blaming and shaming women who report murderers and rapists. My head blew up until i was so sick, I could not move, compulsively started binge drinking out of nowhere shaming women who had left patriarchy and religion, nearly died from them attacking me and had to move, change everything, lost everything I owned from them, ended up with seizures on my floor calling 911 and leaving my home and everything behind afraid I was going to be murdered. Nobody understands it. Really. I left religion, accused my father of abuse, went through deadly stalking, sex abuse, had pets killed, was stalked by the same man for years, worked until my hands burst to get away from them and they came back (generally speaking - to murder, death threaten, oppress and take all basic human rights from me to see me enslaved as a woman). As a child, my father put me into mind-control cults and even hospitals with honor roll grades, these places were closed for torture of kids, medical support was abused on me (Mental illness I didn't have) and he nearly killed me over and over and over again for religious differences. It is NOT just eastern cultures that are SHAME culture. Many are- inner-city, my father was not Muslim, he had lived in Iran but became a Christian, it's funny - you end up with people around you dying from the same. Inevitably. I feel them with me everywhere I go crazy-making, molesting, harming and putting me to sleep - causing suicide to survive, which nobody else believes in, either but those who just *do*. I never would have until it happened to me - it's all from calling men RAPIST. I just AVOID all forms of honor culture, know it encompasses 70% of the world that 30% is not honor based culture. I am happy to remain in the smaller portion of the pie as I CANNOT UNDERSTAND the point of it. I don't need much and my image means nothing to me. I avoid and run from honor, image and religion based cultures now without even hesitating to attempt to get to know the person. You get to a point as a woman where you feel like you're sitting with someone who is murdering you. If you're severely tortured the way that i have been down to breaking my bones for calling men abusive, you'd get it and stay the F AWAY from them.
If anyone thinks that western culture wasn’t the same as other cultures are now they’re very. naive.I grew up in the 80”s and I wasn’t allowed to talk to my grandfather because he was a man,my uncle is still an extremely narcissistic man
Brilliant! So beautifully explained! ❤
It’s great work it’s an EYE OPENER
This whole video was genius and explained so much!!!!
Brilliant video, thank you🙏
I ❤️Friday Nights with Tim.
Wondeful! Thank you
Any society has its code of conduct. Some are more restrictive that the others. All societies have shame elements.
Ok. Could you describe what a healthy culture might look like? Not just family inner culture but on a societal level.
Non-patriarchal.
13:00 solving shame, but instead it feed shame
going to church to get help with addiction issues -> replacing one shame with a different one
I get visions before they happen more frequently
Tank you Sir, for sharing your wisdom and experience.
My background is Eastern European on my mom's side ( my great great grandparents immigrated from Poland and Ukraine in WWI ). Much of what you have explained in this lecture describe my mom's mentality. Does Eastern European cultures fall into more of a shame culture rather than Western culture? My dad's family has been in the US since colonial days, and he seems to have a totally different mentality than my mom ( he is centered on love and truth, no fear). I've been trying to track where the dysfunction is rooted! Thank you.
Try googling "guilt shame cultures" and there is the whole world to discover. Apparently, there's a mix in eastern Europe (similar as Balkan region, which was my point of interest) so I'm not surprised you're seeng the difference in yr family. There can be other factors tho, of course. Guilt/shame model can't explain everything. But the topic is really mad interesting 🤓
Yes they do fall into shame culture spectrum, definitely. That being said, there are very little studies about psychology of the post-soviet countries.
Thank you for the insight - I hadn't even considered the Soviet element in immagrant Eastern European culture. It probably has played a large role in shaping the mindset.
Shame (not guilt) provides justification for disregarding the underlying unmet needs
Thank God for common sense.
I live on Japan. These people are frightening. How far does shame have to go and is Japan a cultural anomaly?
Japanese Society is sick AF...distorted people
Social capital reminds me why people don't just date who they like. They date who their parents like. The many times I've been shunned and deemed undateable because of status. Sad
34:00 public purity
37:00 generosity just to look good
39:00 condependency becomes good due to shame culture, seen as virtue
seeing you on This Past Weekend was a treat! ty
Sounds life the mafia !
kinda yes 😄 "never go against the family", eating together, women "knowing their place" and all that
Listened to you on Theo’s channel. Love your explanations and advice.
You are describing my toxic family under my narcisstic ex husband. How are these wretches all the same.
Thankyou ❤
I feel still intacked empathy mindful that coach help me to handles negative impossible situations to have harder shell. I did as copeing umdeny whats happening distraction. He said i self soothed healthy.
All Praise To The Most High! I appreciate you!!💜🔥✝️
Very insightful video: learning about shame-based cultures is an eye-opener for me!
I am only half-way watching the video, but I would also like to add that IMO, shame-based cultures are not specific to the Global South. As far as I am concerned, I would suggest that societies and cultures that have experienced a considerable amount of trauma may become shame/reputation-based to a certain extent, as a mal-adaptative way to deal with the trauma, when healing has not occurred :) For example, I currently live in a Western European country, and a lot of what I see here are of signs of a shame-based society, with a generous amount of unchallenged societal or bureaucratic rules, often said to be needed for efficiency, but in practice sometimes appearing to be there to protecting some sort of reputation or hierarchy.
Again, IMO it is nothing typical of that country, but for someone who has live in several continents and countries, IMO it (Shame-based setting) is not a North/South difference, but rather a human tendency that our societies need to overcome. Something like a random initial setting, or a setting occurring because of some troubles occurring on the way (trauma).
When did he say it was something that only applies to ‘global south’ countries? He made it pretty clear in the beginning that western culture was included in there 😅
@@artisticagiHi! Yes, I remembered his statement at the beginning, however I believe that it was not enough :) See, he certainly does a lot of research on the topic and has developed his own expertise which I appreciate a lot. For this very same reason, I think he could have gone a little further by balancing the examples, with representative ones from the West, to further challenge the views of his audience :)
Isn't everybody like this? I mean in every single culture, society, company, family, group of friends? Why do you think all companies have "our values/principels"? with diferent rules of course, but the mechanism is there every single time.
Your vid with Theo was really great ❤
It,s strange how many of the examples of family and societal shaming are expressed through womens "shame", which seems to me to be exaccerbated much more these days via the sexaulization of women within social media also.
I remember the days of the late '60s when you could not really tell the difference between men and women when looking from behind them as long hair and jeans were worn by both.!
Without rules what kind of life would we have ?