Starting with Lithiums?!? What you need to know, and what it means for your WARRANTY!?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Lithium batteries are all the rage lately, and for good reason. They produce clean consistent power for seemingly endless amounts of time! Well hitting the market recently is a flood of so called "Starting Lithium Batteries"
Miller tech has done it again and produced a Starting lithium battery that is above the rest!
In todays Video i will show you that Miller Techs Starting Lithium batteries will NOT void your Mercury Warranty and ill also show you what you need to know before investing into one of these batteries.
The battery shown in todays video can be seen and purchased here :
www.mtechlithium.com/products...
the smaller 65 AH starting battery can be found here:
www.mtechlithium.com/products... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thank you for sharing - glad to see you back in the game! I have an older 2 stroke Mercury 225 and am planning to replace batteries this year so that was timely! TY
Thanks for sharing the information on these batteries. I have a bass boat and am aware of the issues that the weight of the batteries for my trolling motors have on my ability to navigate, maneuver and running in shallow water. This is independent of the starting battery. Could easily help me in all those areas.
Yes sir!!
Another benefit of the lithium’s is the weight you can shed from a boat!
On my boat this battery will just be for starting/electronics and I will still have trolling motor batteries
Love the stache bro! 💪🏼🔥😁
Haha thank you!
First off, love all of your videos! Second, didn't know you have a Lund :-) I have an Impact 1775 and love it. Any future video(s) on options for Lithium battery setup with Garmin Electronics? I have a full Garmin setup on my Lund and adding Livescope. thanks!
Hey Larry! Yes just got it!! (My first Lund!) I will definitely be doing more lithium based videos in the future!
What would you like to see?
Any interest in video with vhf radio. Connected to Garmin? Curious about polling other boats with vhf for fishing with a buddy communicating location with each other automatically
The best customer service is one that is never needed. 🙂
Great video. New sub. Question, I have an onboard charger for my existing lead acid batteries. Is there a specific charger for lithium batteries, or do they use the same type charger?
Most of the time a lithium charger is required.
You are a very effective salesman
Do you have any tips for having a battery dedicated to run both of my Garmin 93sv on the console and how to wire them?
Great video, would the voltage read out on my sonar be accurate enough for determining the alternator output at higher RPM? Does the BMS on those batteries limit charging current so it doesn’t overheat the alternator or would the external current limiter? Again thanks for sharing.
I would test the voltage directly at the battery to be 100% sure.
As for the alternator, these were designed to be starting batteries and have a purpose built BMS. But I can’t tell you 100% either way.
I do know however that they have tons of these batteries out there without having any issues
@@MGMarineTech Thanks Max, the batteries I looked at required an external component to connect to the generator directly, glad Miller tech built that in.
@@DoubleTFishing do you have a link on those batteries and the device that you needed to use with them?
Keep in mind I didn’t know at the time the limitations of most lithium battery cranking amps, found that after researching.
Seems to me that many anglers / boaters are convincing themselves of what they 'want' to hear, and tuning out what they don't.
It's obvious lithium is the future, however, this newer technology is being married-up to a long-established charging system (alternators) , that weren't originally developed for Lithiums.
I'm sure all the outboard manufacturers are working to integrate their charging systems to be lithium friendly moving forward.
The inherent construction of lithiums is clearly more 'delicate' in nature as apposed to lead-acid / agm's, which 'potentially' could lead to more failures, especially in more rugged environments. AKA, a pounding boat.
And while I fully understand the draw of weight savings, fast charging, and full power begining-to-end with lithiums. . . . it should be made clear that this does come at a certain level of risk(s).
Great videos, just got my 93vs. How do I show side image just on one side of the boat? Thanks
Thank you!!!
Check out my video named “side imaging hack” that will show you the process.
Let me know if that works for you!!
BMS is the problem with alternators. If BMS shuts down the battery for any reason the alternator will spike and kill itself.
Great news Max. Thanks for sharing it! Where can your Average Joe like me get a copy of that Service Bulletin to burn a copy to have on file?
If you’d like I can email you one or some googling should be able to pull it up.
@@MGMarineTech Thank you Max. I'm usually pretty good at finding things by googling, but no love for me for this one. I'll try to figure out how to pm you my email address on your FB page.
Ref; 4.6V Threshold ~ It seems logical to me that I could check the voltage being fed to my present starting battery before switching to MTECH Lithium. Am I correct in this assumption? Thanks
Yes, I would assume you could do that as wel.
Lithium Iron still can't be connected directly to an alternator or stator. This gives you the starting ability but it doesn't say if it solves the other issues that LiFePo4 have. If you connect any to an alternator is pulls out the peak amps the alternator produces and it overheats the alternator over time or it fries it after 15mins if the battery level was low. I have dozens of LiFePo4 batteries and you need to lower the amount of volts that is given to the battery so a voltage regulator or what I use is a 20Amp DC to DC charger. I use either renogy or Victron 30A charger which they call their 360watt charger. Neither are waterproof, victron is more water resistant though but much more expensive.
The next downside is that all lithium Iron batteries self destruct if you use them below freezing. They started adding a heater inside the case to solve this issue. The heating pad turns on first to heat the battery above 32 before allowing usage. This doesn't mention a built in heater, so I assume not.
Next downside is that lithoum batteries do not like vibration or being banged around. A lead battery is gel or liquid and metal plates. A lithium battery looks the same but inside it looks like a computer. There's little battery cells like C batteries then tons of wires, connections, clamps, and the BMS which is a circuit board. Not ideal for putting in a boat that smashes around.
Next is the added danger. I'm a member of a battery forum and we have an entire section just for melt downs and mistakes. Just because a manufacturer says they are safe doesn't change what they are. The batteries are usually 3 seperate banks combined. Each bank can discharge 100Amps if it fails. Technically if all 3 banks failed it could open 300 amps into your system or boat. That's highly unlikely BUT I read about single bank failures alllll the time. That's why we add fuses and thick ga wire. Your alternator should have 2ga tinned copper wire. But what about a fuse? You'd need a 150amp fuse or breaker, yet starting wires are not fused wires because cranking amps can be high or have spikes in power. So now you have wither an unfused fire Hazzard or fused breaker that may keep tripping. If you do actually do this battery, please for the love of God add on direct terminal fuses. Every single wire that battery touches better have a fuse on it that's on or very very close to that battery!
My solution: Instead of a $1,000 lithium starting battery, have a dedicated AGM or lead acid, then add a lithium house battery, a 100Ah Weize LiFePo4 is $329 connect the lithium to to lead battery by way of a DC-DC charger. A 20-40 amp is plenty, as outboard alternators put out far less than standard car alternators, 35A is a common size but some may be bigger.
Bottom line is Lithium batteries DO fail and when they do they shoot 100amps into any wire attached, in most cases this melts the wire which fuses to any other wires nearby, then the fire comes. Fuses cost a little before or a lot if you forget it's your choice.
Then why does mercury now state that if a starting lithium battery meets their requirements they are ok for certain model engines??
I’ve seen lots of lithium battery fires but not a single lithium battery melt down that is lithium iron phosphate.. they don’t have thermal run away.
I need to correct you on one thing. Lithium battery’s will not self destruct in cold weather. Their are a bunch of people that use theses battery’s ice fishing. You just can not charge them in freezing weather. So that could be a danger with a starting battery in cold weather. Since the motor would put charging amps back into the battery. Maybe that’s what you where talking about. The other issue is with the heated battery’s . They normally turn on the heater. when it senses a current. Which does mean the battery itself will not turn on till it warms up. Instead of a internal heated starting battery. You may be better off with a 12 volt battery wrap. That you could leave on all the time. When you are out on the water.
wanted your thoughts on 16V 19AH vs. 14.8VNMC 20AH vs. my current 12V 20AH, should I be chasing those higher voltage products because the give “sharper images”? … I run 93SV and LVS34/GLS10. Thanks, MG
I’ve yet to see higher voltage produce a better image
Just like buying an off the shelf battery charger, the charging SOURCE must be compliant with lithium battery chemistry. That bulletin does not state that Mercury's charging circuitry is LITHIUM COMPLIANT which it MUST BE.
14.6v ish will charge lithium just fine…
Are you able to with a Garmin Force trolling motor on your new boat?
I haven’t measured it all out yet, but I’d love to have one on there!
Very important to remember if you have an older 2 stroke with a stator charging system you should only use lead acid batteries with those. Not an AGM or lithium, I have seen them catch on fire from using the wrong battery.
Good to know!!!
Do you know the reason? I assume it’s the lower resistance of the lithium batteries.
@@MGMarineTech I am no expert on it but from what I understand lithium and AGM batteries don't absorb the voltage spikes from a stator as well as as a lead acid battery does, probably due to them having less resistance. People have used those types of batteries on stator systems without issue, but when the stator starts to wear out the voltage spikes get worse and that is where you run into problems that you are much less likely to have if you are using a lead acid battery. A system with an alternator has a much smoother and more regulated power delivery.
@@Lray4x4 that would definitely make sense.
Thank you for the information
This is a topic I will be diving into more if possible
older Merc 9&16 amp systems did not come with voltage regulators just rectifiers. WOT voltage can go up to 16-18 volts, you can however install a voltage regulator to address that issue
I have a 2000 model Mercury , 2 stroke, 50 HP on my Bass Tracker.
I was thinking about going with Lithium. I’m assuming I need to stay with lead acid based on what I’m reading here.
My best option is lead acid for cranking, electronics. Lithium for trolling motor.
Does this sound correct?
How are these batteries recharged and maintained when in the garage over winter? I normally just attach a trickle charger to my deep cycle batteries. Also, are they rechargeable via the engine alternator or stator?
Hi Justin, is best to charge them fully before storage. No need for a trickle charger on them like lead acid.
As far as charging via the boat motor, stators are a no no. But if your engine has a alternator, it just has to be within the voltage spec of at or under 14.6.
@@MGMarineTech but how do you charge them before storage is my question? Do I need some kind of special charger? Or can I use my trickle charger?
@@justinstewart3248 the best way to charge them is a dedicated lithium charger, trickle charges often don’t put out enough voltage to charge a lithium.
@@MGMarineTech any cheap recommendations that I can keep on hand in the garage?
@@justinstewart3248 I would give Amazon a look. There are plenty of them on there in all different sizes.
One thing to keep in mind is the size or “amp” of the charger.
If you have a smaller battery say 20 ah you won’t need a 20amp charger. You could get away with a 5-10 amp charger.
But if you have a 100ah battery you would likely want something like 10-20 amps.
The same rules apply roughly for discharging as it does for charging. For instance if you have a completely dead 100 ah battery and you have a 20 amp charger it would take roughly 5 hours to charge.
You failed to read the last part of right after will not void your warranty. I’ve had now two cases where mercury has denied warranty repairs because of lithium battery. So yes they won’t void your warranty but they can and still might deny warranty repairs because of lithium batteries. Mercury dealer owner here.
And what warranty repairs did they deny because of the lithium battery?
@@MGMarineTech alternator and mercury ecu
@@jeremymullins9182 did they give a reasoning as to what caused the issue?
I feel as though Mercury is just trying to have a easy out on some of these issues..
When installed and used properly they will act just like a normal battery.
He is just trying to sell batteries. That is why he left out the important parts of the bulletin.
@@sdvten I covered the important part.. it won’t void the warranty. Yes they can deny claims.. but any company can deny claims for a multitude of different reason…
Have you heard anything regarding yamaha allowing this too?
That I have not, sorry
What happens to the alternator when the lithium battery is fully charged and suddenly just switch it all off? The alternator has suddenly no load and will probably burn, unless you have a smart alternator, but they are not the common one.
They don’t just shut off unless it goes over the 14.6v threshold.
@@MGMarineTech I'm not sure this is true. Pretty sure all lithiums (provided they have a BMS) will shutoff once fully charged. Over charge is bad joo joo for lithiums.
@@colbyscott9822 I mean the battery won’t shut off… if the battery shut off once fully charged what would be the point ?
@@MGMarineTech The battery discharge won't shut off but the BMS will shut off the charging circuit when it's full. It's to prevent over charge, which will damage the battery. When this happens, the alternator has nowhere to send the current it's generating, which will likely blow the alternator.
There are two issues with running lithiums (even starting lithiums) with an alternator charging system. 1. The low internal resistance of lithium batteris causes the alternator to pump out more current than it's designed for, causing it to overheat and burnout. 2. Alternators need somewhere to send the current, or it will blow out the diodes. This can happen if the BMS shuts down the charging circuit when it's full.
The info on this out there but it's not talked about as much as it should be.
Based on what I've seen, a BMS alone can't manage both scenarios. I'm currently doing research on what the most cost effective option is to address both issues.
@@colbyscott9822 I’d like to hear more if you find anything else out. There are many of these batteries out there now without issues. So maybe they do something different?? But I have heard of both of those issues while researching myself
Hello MG, not to change the subject but this is your most recent video and I don't do Facebook.🙂 I have a GT36/Gt8HW Y-cabled combo hooked up to a 106sv at the console. The interference lines are pathetic on the left side of center. I've seen several videos with these lines on TH-cam, some by pro anglers, but few this bad. To make them almost disappear I have to put the frequency on the 480 kHZ setting and turn TVG to HIGH. Yes I have the motor trimmed way up and can't see that anything is physically blocking the signal path. I've noticed the screen in your videos are generally clear left and right of the centerline. Just wondering if you could post a picture of your transducer location. I have mine on the starboard side of my manual jackplate. Any help, settings or otherwise is appreciated. Thanks in advance, Ron
Hey Ron,
Do you have several lines on one side or the other ? Right off the center line of the side imaging?
@@MGMarineTech Yes three or so lines only on left side of side image screen.
@@ronforeman5317 ok so I see this issue quite a bit and a lot of the time it’s when guys have jack plate mounts (maybe a coincidence) or something else is causing a echo return..
Or
A faulty transducer. If there is a way you could get me pictures it would be greatly appreciated
@@MGMarineTech It's a new transducer from a GT30 upgrade. We'll If I knew how to post them I have them on my phone.
@@ronforeman5317 email them to me at mgmarinetech@gmail.com.
Also picture of how your transducer is mounted and the transom of your boat
For chartplotter network of 3 or 4 screens. What type do you recommend for a dedicated. Cranking battery or deep cycle battery?
Are you referring to one of these lithium’s ?
@@MGMarineTech I mean just generally is a dedicated deep cycle better for marine electronics like 3 or 4 screens, or is a starting battery better for marine electronics.
@@MGMarineTech lifepo4 deep cycle or lifepo4 cranking dedicated power fishfinders?
@@acecolby5545 when you are talking about standard lead acid or AGM batteries, you want to buy them for their purpose.
“Low” amps for a long time = deep cycle
High amps for short a time =starting
A mix of both =dual purpose.
These lithium’s in this video can be considered “dual purpose” as they have the ability to put out high amps for cranking and then have a large capacity to run electronics all day long.
I'm just curious since the battery your showing in this video is a cranking battery and your running your chartplotters off of it. That's why I ask if you recommend a deep cycle battery for dedicated power (as in that battery is dedicated only for the chartplotters) or do you recommend starting battery.
And what makes a battery dual purpose? Is that a millertech "dual purpose" battery?
I need that for my van but i can't afford it
All of this is great information, however this is my question or dilemma, if we agree that many of us in the boating community are excited about all the benefits of Lithium, and are very interested in spending several $100's or even $1000's in some cases. How come marine engine manufactures are not publicly posted specification, data and their official statements regarding the use of Lithium batteries with their engines. Considering the ongoing growing interests of the boating community engine manufactures that are able to support the use of Lithium would aggressively marketing this to the public as a strong selling point. Besides a hard copy, or secondhand Service Bulletin from engine manufactures there seems to be zero information out there.
They (Mercury) have since come out and said that starting lithiums are fine on certain models as long as the battery meets certain specs. Merc also owns a battery company and have authorized their lithium for use
$900 Millertech Energy 12v 100aH marine lithium starting battery
OR
$550 - $300 12v 100aH marine lithium starting battery + $250 Ultra-Capacitor battery
What's the difference?
Quality and customer service
👍🏻👍🏻
The BMS on my lithium battery cuts the charge off and checks the voltage every few seconds if 14.6 volts is exceeded, it does NOT cut the whole battery off, that's crazy!
My boat settles at 14.5v. My crank lithium is 14.6+|-1 volts with a max charge cut off of 15.6volts.
Cut to the cheese, the cost is $999.00
Buy once cry once. You get what you pay for
900 dollars? LMFAO