If you missed my previous Interviews with Toady here are the links. June 2020:: th-cam.com/video/9xsv9JQ3X5w/w-d-xo.html October 2020: th-cam.com/video/G-FRm78L3kc/w-d-xo.html
i was once rained on in the summer of 2015 on a friday, afternoon. I tried to soothe myself with my favorite meal of giant lorikeet egg biscuits, but to my dismay there were not available. I have not recovered from this event to this day.
Everyone played "Definitely-hell-mode" for a year, of course now that it's fixed and makes more sense we feel like it's easy mode. Now they'll be able to introduce new sources of stress without causing the game to collapse, that's what we have to look up to. Our previously enemy was "rain"
Thinking what Toady is saying about bugs, this is one of the things I both love and hate about DF. You mentioned that previously it was basically impossible to feed dwarfs food that they liked. Actually, it's possible to do (for 70-80% of the fortress population), but due to bugs it is... interesting. Since I know you enjoy gigantic hacks: Make many kitchens. Link 4 1 tile stockpiles to each kitchen. 1 of them is a liked drink (dwarfs that like a drink will like meals made from that drink). The other 3 are linked solid foods. This is great in a number of ways: There is a reason to make more than one kitchen. You actually have "recipes" instead of random "meals". There is a reason for having extensive gardens that grow a variety of foods. There is a reason for diplomacy so that you can trade for food that you can't grow. Not only that, but different civs have different produce. There are so many good things about it.... Except for the bugs and lack of features. The manager (usually) does not count the number of items available to a workshop, but rather for the whole fortress, so you can't make an automated job for making these meals unless that 1 tile is guaranteed to be full when you have the food. This is not impossible to work around, but it is *very* difficult (almost impossible) to use a food for 2 different things. If a food in in a container, there is a bug/feature that the dwarf will *always* pull food from that container after it has taken from it once. So if you have a barrel of carrots, then you will have a meal consisting of only carrots. This means that you can't use containers in your linked stockpile. There is a bug/feature that dwarfs will always fill containers first and will never move items that are in a stockpile with a container to a stockpile without a container. This means that you can never use containers for ingredients for food unless you want to make meals with essentially the same item most of the time (Having a "shelf" that was a container that contained exactly 1 item and had priority over other containers would fix that... I should suggest it, although just fixing containers would be preferable... Of course, the current brokenness is a result of the fixes from last time...) There is no way to tell the manager: Use 4 different ingredients if possible (why is this not, in fact, the default??? In fact, why doesn't it make 4 ingredient meals if there are 4 different ingredients available, 3 if there are only 3, etc, etc... Another suggestion I should make I guess.... Toady does not seem to respond to these mini suggestions, unfortunately). This is why you have exactly 4 single tile stockpiles linked to the kitchen -- it forces them to make meals with 4 ingredients, meaning that potentially 4 different dwarfs can enjoy each meal type. But you still have problems. Some items can only be stored in bags, which are containers (like seeds). What to do? Make meals consisting of 4 of the same seed? And while the bugs drive me crazy, they also intrigue me. Is it possible to ensure that a bag contains only a single seed -- at least for a short time? And can you craft a manager job to quickly make a meal when the bag contains that single seed? The answer is.... yes. Yes, it is -- as long as it is a seed that you can grow. You store the bag in the kitchen. You set up a manager job to plant the seeds if you have more than one. But wait... that will mean that you will end up with exactly 1 seed and you will eat it! So you maintain a stockpile of the fruit/vegetable (which you can thankfully store in a barrel as long as it isn't a liked food). When you get zero seeds (because you've cooked one), you make alcohol from the fruit/vegetable, giving you more seeds. If you are lucky you may be able to make another meal before you end up with too many seeds, otherwise you plant it. But wait, you say. How can you make sure that you can brew the exact alcohol you want? Well... You make many stills and you have exactly 2 stockpiles (luckily with barrels) linked to each still. One contains a plant and the other contains a fruit. And this gives you complete control over your alcohol production. This kind of stuff is actually surprisingly fun... Except... The conditions for the manager make up the worst programming language on earth. So many bugs. So many oddities. The order in which you specify the conditions for the thing you want to specify is important: Bayberry wine drinks needs to be specified as "drinks item" and *then* "bayberry wine" material, or else it silently fails. There are other perplexities as well. Every time I have to specify Dwarven syrup it takes me 20 minutes to remember the incantations necessary to do so. For me, this sums up Dwarf Fortress. The oddities and bugs make me discover ways to enjoy the game that I would never have imagined. And then they take away that joy by ultimately being broken. It sometimes feels like a gigantic troll...
I'm just starting to explore DF. I have to say what hit's me most in this video is the openness and honesty from Tarn. It's incredibly refreshing and the AAA guys should take some notes.
On the topic of atomsmashers, I always wondered if there couldn't be a building that was specifically designed to remove trash. Like a fat processing station that automatically does it if you have the required ingredients, you could set it up to trash items of X or XX degradation. There could be a fuel version that uses a fuel for each one, but also a magma one that doesn't, much like other furnace buildings. That could be one minor way to help deal with excess stuff in a fortress. I've also always wondered about limiting the items dwarves could query for seeking objects to just things in piles, workshops and their personal furniture. The only issue would be getting raw materials into stockpiles, but I think you could come up with a solution where dwarfs only consider those jobs if they have line of site to the item, or something, and some mechanism to get dwarves to 'search' for items if there's open spaces in stockpiles. Dunno if that would actually fix the performance problems, but I feel like there should be clever ways in the spirit of what I'm talking about to get around these performance problems.
OR- if an item is left outside of a pile/building for a long period of time, the earth 'reclaims' the item. It doesn't go away, but gets saved to a list for the block it was on. If that block is eventually dug up, then it gets re-introduced as an item in the normal game world. This could also be part of world gen maybe? Something to do as an adventurer- go to old dead civilization spots and dig around for buried items? That'd be pretty cool.
Roleplaying a dorf I love listening to dorfish music, here's a song I like: The King beneath the mountains The King of carven stone The lord of silver fountains Shall come into his own! His crown shall be upholden His harp shall be restrung His halls shall echo golden To songs of yore re-sung The woods shall wave on mountains And grass beneath the sun; His wealth shall flow in fountains And the rivers golden run The streams shall run in gladness The lakes shall shine and burn All sorrow fail and sadness At the Mountain-king's return! - Clamavi De Profundis
Hey now, if you're going to mention them, you ought to link them! th-cam.com/video/uxfoa23skHg/w-d-xo.html After all, the words are Tolkien's work, it's the music and voices they should get credit for. They are awesome, of course. Also the Song of Durin is worth checking out... th-cam.com/video/uxfoa23skHg/w-d-xo.html
Note about progress; 25 other building's UI (beds, chains, cages, statues, ext..), levers, manager, unit job list, workshop profiles, [c]ivilizations screen, military & squads, mine-cart hauling routes, burrows, and [q,t,k,v] updated to clicking. Then there's the embark screen; rectangle resizing UI replaced, and retooling worldgen so that you aren't dumped back into the title screen. Thinking about the other modes; a lot of the graphics comes for the ride but very little of the interface does. So we'll see what we need to do there after the dorf stuff has been finished. Legends mode shouldn't take that long, also hyperlinks. In general the art stuff should be commensurate with that and not slow down the process, and Tarn is looking at it in terms of a finishing the screens and menus perspective now... This year would still be fair.
This was an amazing interview. You cant just not love Tarn, he's such a nice guy and an truly amazing dev. Also thanks blind for doing this, i just discovered your channel a few weeks ago and the content you make is also incredible!
51:15 strangler conversation, I love being able to get into adventure mode and witness the various wildlife around the worlds! It adds to the replay of fort mode also, assuming you make new forts ever!
If you've been playing stress-hell for a year, of course anything less will feel like easy mode. I didn't love the concept of Suicide-Squad-ing stress-prone dwarfs to it.
@@desastreger Wouldn't it be possible to add difficulty levels to the game? Like an easy mode that would come with less stress-prone dwarves, no forgotten beast attacks nor sieges... this way, each player could choose whatever suits them best
@@Thomashuxleyfan I think that'd be good. However you can somehow set up your difficulty through the init file and world editor. I usually disable werecurses because I find those extremely frustrating to deal with... However I increase the number of vampire curses because who doesn't love to have "interns".
Stress should be a factor. However, a siege should kill you by murdering your dwarfs more often than the clean-up up of dead gobbos in the rain afterwards. That's my take on stress.
In Star Citizen, there are 4 planets, each with 3-4 moons. Crusader is a gas giant. Its city is not ready yet. MicroTech has one major urban center, New Babbage Hurston also has one major urban center, Lorville. Lastly, ArcCorp is a planet that has been *entirely covered in city* but you can't land anywhere except at a few designated spots. The only one where there's anything to see or do is Area 18. The moons are dotted with outposts where you can trade commodities, and covered with mineral formations that you can mine. But it is still very much not "done".
What if someone made a community wiki with every animal that was known to man, to make an entry for the animal it would be completely standardized. with hundreds of questions about the animal, name, height, weight, aggression, all important data. Then they could just pull that data straight into the game. Dinosaurs, aliens, flamingos. devils, mythical. If the entry form was completely uniform anyone could provide the data to throw it into the game, all they would have to do is answer the specific yes or no questions about the animal they are trying to add.
There's two things I'm going to start doing. Every time a unicorn is brought up I'm to mention punicorns. And every chance I get I'm going to edit in a debug creature somewhere. in places where people wouldn't notice it's out of place.
Great interview, makes you realise how much work there really is to do. I missed the chance to put a question in, I would of asked about sound / music in the steam version. I posted about this before and I’ve not seen it answered yet; Are they planning to intergrate some basic form of sounds and music like sound sense does?
Tarn is such a wonderfil person, truely hope the moving goes well. Take all the time you need for the steam release, my dwarves could wait for years to have thier own bedrooms and so can I wait for this release!
The thing that stressed my dwarfs the most was after combat the corpse clean up would compound 100's of negative thoughts all because the dwarfs can only pick up one thing at a time, one flail hit to a goblins face will send at-least 5-10 teeth flying and thats another 10 trips were my dwarf has to walk past 20 dead bodies and go insane, i wish the game was just a bit smarter with pickup's. Like couldn't the dwarfs have some sort of inventory to pick up multiple small items in one trip , maybe you could craft bags and bandoliers for them and clothing with pockets to make it balanced , because atm it's really unrealistic that a dwarf can only pick up one tooth or one finger at a time
It should be pretty easy to cover up bodies, no? Doctor or coroner or field medic could do it. Far as I know, that's what most IRL civilizations have always done.
8:43 Uh...I had dwarves dying of starvation because they were rained on for too long and that caused them to become depressed to the point of refusing to move. And the biome I was in rained for months non-stop.
@@BlindiRL It just happened that the nearest water pond was some distance away from the fortress. Nothing else was different. Then you'd see several dwarves under rain, look at them and they go "Urist McDepressed is too depressed to move." or something like that.
Wow, I wonder if they could use the villans programming to make characters acting for a good goal too? Idk, it always just excites me hearing about the villains' stuff in DF with the possibilities.
What does Tarn consider acceptable loss during optimal play? Should all dwarves live if playing correctly, or should there be a certain percentage of unavoidable deaths?
Depends on how long you run your fortress for, Dorfs get old and die, too! However, "optimal play" and Dwarf Fortress don't go together. You can be efficient, but a Were-Skink can still infiltrate your fort and become a menace, killing a dozen before you can arrest or kill it. It's just how things go.
On one hand you have the big studios which are organized and good at delegating labor but willing to grind creators into dust and punish their creativity, on the other hand you have Tarn Adams. The ideal scenario is probably somewhere in the middle. Tarn Adams with a (cool) boss. The boss would have to be a creative thinker who is sympathetic to the goals of the project but someone who Tarn is nonetheless afraid of.
"Afraid of" sounds awful. What, like someone to introduce stress and rush features out before they're finished? I'd rather he have fun and enjoy his project as opposed to having some douchebag looking over his shoulder and enforcing deadlines.
If you've ever worked with deadlines and without deadlines you'll know what I'm talking about. The only thing that makes deadlines work is fear of what happens if you miss them. It's extremely common for creative people to do their best work when under some kind of pressure to produce it. It's quite rare to meet a creative person who produces their best work under no external pressure at all. Obviously the ideal scenario is for your source of external pressure to be on the same page creatively and sympathetic to your goals.
I think we could use a few difficulty level settings, and one specifically for stress. That way every person could play the game in the way that they think it should be.
I've been thinking of getting into this game. I know nothing other than the memes. I've played games like Rimworld. Should I wait for the steam release, or try to get into it now, and if I try to get into it now, what are some good sources to learn how to play? Thanks for your time.
Truth be told my pc needs some work done it may take a few weeks and I would be worried the game would come out in the next few weeks. Making me want it back to get the game. But I don't need to worry about that I give this game another year or more before it goes to steam :)
Honestly besides the stupid rain sadness. The only sorrow that bothered me was when they were upset that they didn't spend time with friends and family and wouldn't make friends snd had no family.
Df and rimworld have almost nothing in common code base wise so it won't look anything like rimworlds mods on the backend. But df modding is extremely powerful and people do great work with the tools we have already. I expect it to be fun.
@@BlindiRL I just want a streamlined workshop like forge metal craft use any metal. Then a drop-down to select or deselect different metals. Instead of going through each individual metal to craft the items. Minimums, repeatable orders that don't get cancelled then materials run out, choosing distance of materials, etc. And mods for playing different races, and increasing stockpile stack sizes. Or being able to stack stone like in gnomoria. And gnomoria automatically generates tasks for missing components.
Regardless of DF and Rimworld being similar or not, they sure as hell give the player many of the same things. I don't think that can be denied and I think that is really what many players care about. I jumped on Rimworld because I played DF 10 years before. I definitely got a similar experience.
The biggest thing you can do to speed-up the game, performance-wise, is the following... Assume you have only 60 "cycles" per second, displaying 60 FPS. If each internalized action is set to be "processed", by using an ID-value, you can speed-up the game, without actually speeding it up. (Actually slowing it down, in essence.) Instead of trying to blast through a million "individual thoughts and computations", from start to finish. You use something like the ID-value, or Location-value, etc... to group things that need processing, to be rationed for processing. Obviously, you want priority for motions of characters, followed by motions of owned-creatures, followed by motions of wildlife. However, you don't have to "think about the moves", at every 60th of a second. You only need to think about 1 second. The other 59 frames is just a translation of that motion, which requires almost no thinking. You are just displaying the transition of motion from one cell to another cell. So... How does that speed-up the game? Well, you isolate the population into 60 lists. One per "frame-second". You only "think about new moves", for one list per frame-second. Then, using that completed "new-position", you begin translating that into the needed 1/60th interpolated X,Y positions. You are no longer thinking about them now, only "moving them", 1/60th of a position, as you now "think" about the second list of 60. A list which is only 1/60th of the entire population, and thus, 60x faster to run through and process... Are they able to move... Are they losing hunger... Are they losing health and bleeding-out... Are they done attacking or still mid-swing... etc... This can extend to plant-growth, erosion, etc... You don't have to think about 600-million individual cells, in each "frame". You can split that into the initial 1/60th, making it only 10-million cells being thought about every 1/60th of a second. Further, you could split that into 1000 second chunks. Plants don't grow that fast, nor does erosion happen that fast. It is either happening, or it is not. If it is happening, you know how much it happens and can easily calculate how much per frame, but only have to think about it every 1000 seconds. (That is about 17 real minutes, between transitions.) So now the 10-million cells of potential "change", now only needs 10,000 cells to be "processed", to determine if something is happening or not, per frame-second. The lists are figurative, but can be literal. It helps to locate things faster with smaller lists, as opposed to trying to "FIND" a specific thing from a massive list with a specific ID value to be processed. (Threading without actually threading. But, this actually makes the potential process of threading to be done in the future, easily. Because every action is already isolated for threading in parallel processing.) How do you handle interactions of things not in the same "time-frame"... The same way you normally would. They are at a specific location or action, based on the transition or just based off the "destination" where they are headed. It's 1/60th of a second, and the micro-transition is almost irrelevant anyways. You have plenty of "free time" to process additional things now, since you are only processing 1/60th of critical things and 1/60000th of non-critical things, per second. The simple version of this would simply use the last digit of each items ID-value, using 1/10th instead of 1/60th. Character #1234 is done on 4/10ths, Character #8322 is done on 2/10ths, Character #121 is done on 1/10ths of a cycle. Using the last numbers, 4, 2, 1 to determine when you "think about" or "process" them. Its real easy, again, to manage massive lists with deaths too. Each death, you simply move the last character into that other characters ID value. It becomes a self-balancing distribution of IDs. (Even if the ID is just a unique INDEX-Position in an array. But, again, its better to just keep 10 individual lists.) This also makes it easy to fast-forward and slow down time too. You can optionally force processing of more, or less, as needed. Time is still time and nothing is lost in processing. Nothing that would be missed within a "second" of time. You can free-up more time too... Using a "skip me" value/counter. If a character or event is "doing something" for x-seconds... it is busy and does not need "thinking". (Eg, a cow grazing, a character doing an attack, a plant done growing.) Skipping over those items can free-time to extend thinking into other things, like the next list, or something with a higher priority, or simply allowing the CPU/GPU to rest, keeping it ready for more responsive input.
I don't think you can make claims like this. It makes distant assumptions about the code and its developers. I would actually lean towards assuming the implementation as it is now is currently already more complex than what you've described. The optimizations you're talking about are basic, and some of these kinds of things may decrease performance anyway due to cache misses. Finally, there is also value in performing a computation regardless of whether or not it is needed, because checking if it is needed at all can obliterate branch prediction. I don't think it's as simple as you think.
I will get the steam version but i probly wont get it till there's some good mods for it. I'm honestly more happy that Tarn is gonna make a lot of money with the steam release. That man spent an insane amount of time making this game and he is finally going to get the money he deserves for it.
Personally, I always get detached from the game once it gets out of the construction phase and turns into a political and emotional management simulator. I could do it, but it's very boring.
wait, you get out of construction phase? All my forts lean heavily towards the Dwarf Sims once I'm doing taverns and dorms and temples. Oh, and tombs. So many.
According to the primordial animals concept, shouldn't there not be dingo men or giant dingos? Dingos are wild animals but they're descended from domesticated animals.
I love tarn, I'm really looking forward to the magic update, and did you hear that the clowns reproduce naturally, I've played the game for 8 years now and have never seen that.
Do you think a breeding farm is possible, I'm gonna try could be tough though clowns are building destroyers, and do you think they can reproduce in the wild, kinda like how necromancer experiments can be come wild life except clowns, the fun would get intense
@@pringlelingle6827 Cmon Tarn add taming of clowns with candy caged in the game. Make em the less tame version that can revert at any time for optimal FUN
Idk if tarn has ever answered it anywhere before but i really wanna know if dwarf fortress started out as him just going "a game like this would be really fun to play, well, why wait for someone else to make it? might aswell make it myself"
Yes, he's already answered this question. During the development of Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, Tarn began little side projects for fun, hence the creation of dwarf fortress. Dwarf fortress was originally supposed to be a game like dig dug where you try to get as much ore as possible with your little squadron of dwarves, but Tarn and Zach kept adding new features until it eventually spiraled into what we have today.
Perhaps the stress system should split be split in two 1) An unsatisfied dwarf complains 2) A dwarf become stressed when meeting complaining dwarfs So you can fix the issue by removing the complainers or by removing the sensitive dwarfs.
Jesus fucking christ, should of come with a warning for headphone users, that cat went thermonucular on something and it came through very freaking loud lol
so, are we just done asking when its gonna come out? we all just accept that this isnt going to come out any time within the next couple years? seems like its time to give up on this pipe dream and just learn to live with tilesets....
If you missed my previous Interviews with Toady here are the links.
June 2020:: th-cam.com/video/9xsv9JQ3X5w/w-d-xo.html
October 2020: th-cam.com/video/G-FRm78L3kc/w-d-xo.html
That pain in the ears when you use headphones and one person is significantly louder than the other.
I love how even-headed Tarn is. This whole interview was great. Thank both of you for doing this!
Thank you for taking the time to watch it man!
The legend Kruggsmash!!!!!!
KRUGGSMASH!!! legend!!
We need an interview with Krugg and Toady.
i was once rained on in the summer of 2015 on a friday, afternoon. I tried to soothe myself with my favorite meal of giant lorikeet egg biscuits, but to my dismay there were not available. I have not recovered from this event to this day.
My disappointment is immeasurable, and my *entire life* is ruined
It was inevitable.
"I just don't see the debug creature caring about your problems at all." -- Tarn Adams, 2021
Obviously the artifact version of any item will be the same sprite only covered with hanging rings and menacing spikes.
how bout hanging rings made of menacing spikes
@@lenorevanalstine1219 hanging spikes and menacing rings?
@@yobgodababua1862 spikey hangers and ringing menace
Hanging spikes that ring menacingly.
Everyone played "Definitely-hell-mode" for a year, of course now that it's fixed and makes more sense we feel like it's easy mode. Now they'll be able to introduce new sources of stress without causing the game to collapse, that's what we have to look up to. Our previously enemy was "rain"
Thinking what Toady is saying about bugs, this is one of the things I both love and hate about DF. You mentioned that previously it was basically impossible to feed dwarfs food that they liked. Actually, it's possible to do (for 70-80% of the fortress population), but due to bugs it is... interesting. Since I know you enjoy gigantic hacks: Make many kitchens. Link 4 1 tile stockpiles to each kitchen. 1 of them is a liked drink (dwarfs that like a drink will like meals made from that drink). The other 3 are linked solid foods. This is great in a number of ways: There is a reason to make more than one kitchen. You actually have "recipes" instead of random "meals". There is a reason for having extensive gardens that grow a variety of foods. There is a reason for diplomacy so that you can trade for food that you can't grow. Not only that, but different civs have different produce. There are so many good things about it.... Except for the bugs and lack of features.
The manager (usually) does not count the number of items available to a workshop, but rather for the whole fortress, so you can't make an automated job for making these meals unless that 1 tile is guaranteed to be full when you have the food. This is not impossible to work around, but it is *very* difficult (almost impossible) to use a food for 2 different things. If a food in in a container, there is a bug/feature that the dwarf will *always* pull food from that container after it has taken from it once. So if you have a barrel of carrots, then you will have a meal consisting of only carrots. This means that you can't use containers in your linked stockpile. There is a bug/feature that dwarfs will always fill containers first and will never move items that are in a stockpile with a container to a stockpile without a container. This means that you can never use containers for ingredients for food unless you want to make meals with essentially the same item most of the time (Having a "shelf" that was a container that contained exactly 1 item and had priority over other containers would fix that... I should suggest it, although just fixing containers would be preferable... Of course, the current brokenness is a result of the fixes from last time...) There is no way to tell the manager: Use 4 different ingredients if possible (why is this not, in fact, the default??? In fact, why doesn't it make 4 ingredient meals if there are 4 different ingredients available, 3 if there are only 3, etc, etc... Another suggestion I should make I guess.... Toady does not seem to respond to these mini suggestions, unfortunately). This is why you have exactly 4 single tile stockpiles linked to the kitchen -- it forces them to make meals with 4 ingredients, meaning that potentially 4 different dwarfs can enjoy each meal type.
But you still have problems. Some items can only be stored in bags, which are containers (like seeds). What to do? Make meals consisting of 4 of the same seed? And while the bugs drive me crazy, they also intrigue me. Is it possible to ensure that a bag contains only a single seed -- at least for a short time? And can you craft a manager job to quickly make a meal when the bag contains that single seed? The answer is.... yes. Yes, it is -- as long as it is a seed that you can grow. You store the bag in the kitchen. You set up a manager job to plant the seeds if you have more than one. But wait... that will mean that you will end up with exactly 1 seed and you will eat it! So you maintain a stockpile of the fruit/vegetable (which you can thankfully store in a barrel as long as it isn't a liked food). When you get zero seeds (because you've cooked one), you make alcohol from the fruit/vegetable, giving you more seeds. If you are lucky you may be able to make another meal before you end up with too many seeds, otherwise you plant it. But wait, you say. How can you make sure that you can brew the exact alcohol you want? Well... You make many stills and you have exactly 2 stockpiles (luckily with barrels) linked to each still. One contains a plant and the other contains a fruit. And this gives you complete control over your alcohol production.
This kind of stuff is actually surprisingly fun... Except... The conditions for the manager make up the worst programming language on earth. So many bugs. So many oddities. The order in which you specify the conditions for the thing you want to specify is important: Bayberry wine drinks needs to be specified as "drinks item" and *then* "bayberry wine" material, or else it silently fails. There are other perplexities as well. Every time I have to specify Dwarven syrup it takes me 20 minutes to remember the incantations necessary to do so.
For me, this sums up Dwarf Fortress. The oddities and bugs make me discover ways to enjoy the game that I would never have imagined. And then they take away that joy by ultimately being broken. It sometimes feels like a gigantic troll...
I'm just starting to explore DF. I have to say what hit's me most in this video is the openness and honesty from Tarn. It's incredibly refreshing and the AAA guys should take some notes.
Not how business works normally sadly.
@@BlindiRL Well I thoroughly enjoyed the interview and I thought you did a great job with it. I'll be watching more.
@@USMCArchAngel03 I'm glad! Hoping to chat with tarn sometime after he is done moving :D
On the topic of atomsmashers, I always wondered if there couldn't be a building that was specifically designed to remove trash. Like a fat processing station that automatically does it if you have the required ingredients, you could set it up to trash items of X or XX degradation. There could be a fuel version that uses a fuel for each one, but also a magma one that doesn't, much like other furnace buildings. That could be one minor way to help deal with excess stuff in a fortress.
I've also always wondered about limiting the items dwarves could query for seeking objects to just things in piles, workshops and their personal furniture. The only issue would be getting raw materials into stockpiles, but I think you could come up with a solution where dwarfs only consider those jobs if they have line of site to the item, or something, and some mechanism to get dwarves to 'search' for items if there's open spaces in stockpiles. Dunno if that would actually fix the performance problems, but I feel like there should be clever ways in the spirit of what I'm talking about to get around these performance problems.
OR- if an item is left outside of a pile/building for a long period of time, the earth 'reclaims' the item. It doesn't go away, but gets saved to a list for the block it was on. If that block is eventually dug up, then it gets re-introduced as an item in the normal game world. This could also be part of world gen maybe? Something to do as an adventurer- go to old dead civilization spots and dig around for buried items? That'd be pretty cool.
The craftsdwarfship of this interview is of the highest kind. It menaces with spikes!
Thanks for the kind words and taking the time to watch.
I totally just read this in KruggSmash's voice!😂
I get the feeling Tarn would be an amazing Dungeon Master.
He'd be an OSR guy for sure.
@@phaedruslive I think he mentioned using the tables from the old 1e DMG as inspiration in another interview once, so you're probably right.
Seems natural, considering he made one of if not the most in-depth simulators ever made so you could have a fun world to build your fort in
Roleplaying a dorf I love listening to dorfish music, here's a song I like:
The King beneath the mountains
The King of carven stone
The lord of silver fountains
Shall come into his own!
His crown shall be upholden
His harp shall be restrung
His halls shall echo golden
To songs of yore re-sung
The woods shall wave on mountains
And grass beneath the sun;
His wealth shall flow in fountains
And the rivers golden run
The streams shall run in gladness
The lakes shall shine and burn
All sorrow fail and sadness
At the Mountain-king's return!
- Clamavi De Profundis
Hey now, if you're going to mention them, you ought to link them! th-cam.com/video/uxfoa23skHg/w-d-xo.html
After all, the words are Tolkien's work, it's the music and voices they should get credit for.
They are awesome, of course. Also the Song of Durin is worth checking out... th-cam.com/video/uxfoa23skHg/w-d-xo.html
I've never even played DF but i am just fascinated with its sheer enormity and how this guy's mind works
Note about progress; 25 other building's UI (beds, chains, cages, statues, ext..), levers, manager, unit job list, workshop profiles, [c]ivilizations screen, military & squads, mine-cart hauling routes, burrows, and [q,t,k,v] updated to clicking. Then there's the embark screen; rectangle resizing UI replaced, and retooling worldgen so that you aren't dumped back into the title screen.
Thinking about the other modes; a lot of the graphics comes for the ride but very little of the interface does. So we'll see what we need to do there after the dorf stuff has been finished. Legends mode shouldn't take that long, also hyperlinks. In general the art stuff should be commensurate with that and not slow down the process, and Tarn is looking at it in terms of a finishing the screens and menus perspective now... This year would still be fair.
I wish Tarn would release some stuff for modders ahead of the steam release, so we can start working on our graphics/music packs!
I would be shocked if we don't at least get sprite sheets a bit before launch.
This was an amazing interview. You cant just not love Tarn, he's such a nice guy and an truly amazing dev. Also thanks blind for doing this, i just discovered your channel a few weeks ago and the content you make is also incredible!
I'm glad you enjoy my work
51:15 strangler conversation, I love being able to get into adventure mode and witness the various wildlife around the worlds! It adds to the replay of fort mode also, assuming you make new forts ever!
If you've been playing stress-hell for a year, of course anything less will feel like easy mode. I didn't love the concept of Suicide-Squad-ing stress-prone dwarfs to it.
Eh I don't mind ether way.
@@BlindiRL I think no one likes a drop in difficulty forced on them... This isn't No Sweat.
@@desastreger Wouldn't it be possible to add difficulty levels to the game? Like an easy mode that would come with less stress-prone dwarves, no forgotten beast attacks nor sieges... this way, each player could choose whatever suits them best
@@Thomashuxleyfan I think that'd be good. However you can somehow set up your difficulty through the init file and world editor. I usually disable werecurses because I find those extremely frustrating to deal with... However I increase the number of vampire curses because who doesn't love to have "interns".
@@Thomashuxleyfan it's pretty ez to turn on cheats. You can play with no food or drink needs either
Stress should be a factor.
However, a siege should kill you by murdering your dwarfs more often than the clean-up up of dead gobbos in the rain afterwards.
That's my take on stress.
Absolutely
but it wouldn't be nearly as Fun then would it?
In Star Citizen, there are 4 planets, each with 3-4 moons.
Crusader is a gas giant. Its city is not ready yet.
MicroTech has one major urban center, New Babbage
Hurston also has one major urban center, Lorville.
Lastly, ArcCorp is a planet that has been *entirely covered in city* but you can't land anywhere except at a few designated spots. The only one where there's anything to see or do is Area 18.
The moons are dotted with outposts where you can trade commodities, and covered with mineral formations that you can mine.
But it is still very much not "done".
CANT WAIT!!!...finally im going to pay you for something!
www.patreon.com/bay12games
@@BlindiRL why does this link keep redirecting to YOUR PATREON BLIND!!!??? jks ;) just sassin
What if someone made a community wiki with every animal that was known to man, to make an entry for the animal it would be completely standardized. with hundreds of questions about the animal, name, height, weight, aggression, all important data. Then they could just pull that data straight into the game. Dinosaurs, aliens, flamingos. devils, mythical. If the entry form was completely uniform anyone could provide the data to throw it into the game, all they would have to do is answer the specific yes or no questions about the animal they are trying to add.
scamps is the greatest cat to have ever existed
Definitely caused one of the greatest interest I've ever had for an interview
This is going to be 1am for me but you can bet i will be awake for this.
Love the big debug
#debugisArmok
There's two things I'm going to start doing. Every time a unicorn is brought up I'm to mention punicorns. And every chance I get I'm going to edit in a debug creature somewhere. in places where people wouldn't notice it's out of place.
I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE
Diggy diggy hole,
I haven't seen that reference in forever
This brings me back
As usual, very good interview :3 Lots of good questions, lots of good cats, lots of explosions and crashings. All around a very dwarfy experience.
Thank you for taking time to make this happen, i have to thank tarn as well for finding the time to do an interview with you 👍
Absolutely!
So stoked for this!
I hope you enjoyed it! Thanks again for the tip!
@@BlindiRL Dude you add so much value. I know it's not much, but it's my honor man. The Patreon backers are the real heroes though!
Thanks for this, we love hearing the great Toady One.
Thanks for listening
Great interview, makes you realise how much work there really is to do. I missed the chance to put a question in, I would of asked about sound / music in the steam version. I posted about this before and I’ve not seen it answered yet; Are they planning to intergrate some basic form of sounds and music like sound sense does?
If im not mistaken there will be à whole soundtrack also
@@dorianrisse4079 Ahh nice that’ll be good, people would find it weird if it was just silence while playing.
it started exactly how i expected it to
Rimworld mods let you increase the stack sizes for items so your stockpiles arent as huge. hope there will be mod support for steam dwarf fortress.
Look up quantum storing
My birthday in less than two weeks! Would be a wonderful gift to see it out before then :P
You can hope!
Maybe 1 year and 2 weeks? Lol
@@BlindiRL Hope is the only thing he can *HOPE* for))))))
@@bondedomao Would still sign for it 😂
Tarn wearing Bay Hay and Feed ... and it’s cold in Kitsap, so I am, too.
Def cold.
Tarn is such a wonderfil person, truely hope the moving goes well.
Take all the time you need for the steam release, my dwarves could wait for years to have thier own bedrooms and so can I wait for this release!
I could not agree more.
1:02:01 I couldn't quite get the reference. What game are you talking about?
Edit: NVM, I think It's Caves of Qud
Correct, caves of qud.
THANKS FOR SHARING! :)
No problem 😊
I can't wait
I can and will, It won't take so long.
Wait times are subjective.
Don't wait and time will pass fairly quickly
Awesome interview
Glad your enjoying it.
The thing that stressed my dwarfs the most was after combat the corpse clean up would compound 100's of negative thoughts all because the dwarfs can only pick up one thing at a time, one flail hit to a goblins face will send at-least 5-10 teeth flying and thats another 10 trips were my dwarf has to walk past 20 dead bodies and go insane, i wish the game was just a bit smarter with pickup's.
Like couldn't the dwarfs have some sort of inventory to pick up multiple small items in one trip , maybe you could craft bags and bandoliers for them and clothing with pockets to make it balanced , because atm it's really unrealistic that a dwarf can only pick up one tooth or one finger at a time
It should be pretty easy to cover up bodies, no? Doctor or coroner or field medic could do it. Far as I know, that's what most IRL civilizations have always done.
8:43 Uh...I had dwarves dying of starvation because they were rained on for too long and that caused them to become depressed to the point of refusing to move. And the biome I was in rained for months non-stop.
You must have done something wrong.. I'm not sure what but that is just not normal.
@@BlindiRL It just happened that the nearest water pond was some distance away from the fortress. Nothing else was different. Then you'd see several dwarves under rain, look at them and they go "Urist McDepressed is too depressed to move." or something like that.
Wow, I wonder if they could use the villans programming to make characters acting for a good goal too? Idk, it always just excites me hearing about the villains' stuff in DF with the possibilities.
SC flight model is actually good - enable decoupled mode for Newtonian physics, SC also has a lot of planets and even more moons :P
I know for a fact that DF Steam version is going to be simultaneously launched with James Webb in October 2021.
I could listen to this man think for ever
I really don't get people complaining about the stress rework. It just means to can be that more extreme with them before they break.
What does Tarn consider acceptable loss during optimal play? Should all dwarves live if playing correctly, or should there be a certain percentage of unavoidable deaths?
Depends on how long you run your fortress for, Dorfs get old and die, too!
However, "optimal play" and Dwarf Fortress don't go together. You can be efficient, but a Were-Skink can still infiltrate your fort and become a menace, killing a dozen before you can arrest or kill it. It's just how things go.
Great interview! I wonder when we’ll see the game :) itching to get into it again!
Very soon!
On one hand you have the big studios which are organized and good at delegating labor but willing to grind creators into dust and punish their creativity, on the other hand you have Tarn Adams. The ideal scenario is probably somewhere in the middle. Tarn Adams with a (cool) boss. The boss would have to be a creative thinker who is sympathetic to the goals of the project but someone who Tarn is nonetheless afraid of.
"Afraid of" sounds awful. What, like someone to introduce stress and rush features out before they're finished? I'd rather he have fun and enjoy his project as opposed to having some douchebag looking over his shoulder and enforcing deadlines.
If you've ever worked with deadlines and without deadlines you'll know what I'm talking about. The only thing that makes deadlines work is fear of what happens if you miss them. It's extremely common for creative people to do their best work when under some kind of pressure to produce it. It's quite rare to meet a creative person who produces their best work under no external pressure at all. Obviously the ideal scenario is for your source of external pressure to be on the same page creatively and sympathetic to your goals.
This is great
Thank you!
I think we could use a few difficulty level settings, and one specifically for stress. That way every person could play the game in the way that they think it should be.
Now it makes sense why cats end up being the downfall of most my mines, it's art imitating life lol.
i wonder if their will be day and night cycle and weather actually showing. Obviously all after the essential stuff is implemented
We already see rain and moon cycles. As well as snow so who knows.
@@BlindiRL oh i didn't know that, pog
Great interview, thanks!
I'm glad you liked it!
I've been thinking of getting into this game. I know nothing other than the memes. I've played games like Rimworld. Should I wait for the steam release, or try to get into it now, and if I try to get into it now, what are some good sources to learn how to play?
Thanks for your time.
Door Fortress Wiki getting started guide.
pretty dang good interview
Glad you liked it!
Oh boi I hope that debug creature makes the cut
We'll make it happen
Tarn is really just the gold standard of a game developer.
If there weren't a pandemic, I guarantee that patrons would be showing up in force with pickup trucks, helping Tarn and ThreeToe move.
Hope Tarn is going ok, his work is great as always.
I hope so too!
Truth be told my pc needs some work done it may take a few weeks and I would be worried the game would come out in the next few weeks. Making me want it back to get the game. But I don't need to worry about that I give this game another year or more before it goes to steam :)
Honestly besides the stupid rain sadness. The only sorrow that bothered me was when they were upset that they didn't spend time with friends and family and wouldn't make friends snd had no family.
Well, that feature is the most real world realistic thing in the game. :-) At least half of the visitors at my local pub are like that.
hope there was some inspiration taken from Rimworld. at least for workshop UI.
Df and rimworld have almost nothing in common code base wise so it won't look anything like rimworlds mods on the backend. But df modding is extremely powerful and people do great work with the tools we have already. I expect it to be fun.
@@BlindiRL I just want a streamlined workshop like forge metal craft use any metal. Then a drop-down to select or deselect different metals. Instead of going through each individual metal to craft the items. Minimums, repeatable orders that don't get cancelled then materials run out, choosing distance of materials, etc. And mods for playing different races, and increasing stockpile stack sizes. Or being able to stack stone like in gnomoria. And gnomoria automatically generates tasks for missing components.
Regardless of DF and Rimworld being similar or not, they sure as hell give the player many of the same things. I don't think that can be denied and I think that is really what many players care about. I jumped on Rimworld because I played DF 10 years before. I definitely got a similar experience.
The biggest thing you can do to speed-up the game, performance-wise, is the following...
Assume you have only 60 "cycles" per second, displaying 60 FPS.
If each internalized action is set to be "processed", by using an ID-value, you can speed-up the game, without actually speeding it up. (Actually slowing it down, in essence.) Instead of trying to blast through a million "individual thoughts and computations", from start to finish. You use something like the ID-value, or Location-value, etc... to group things that need processing, to be rationed for processing.
Obviously, you want priority for motions of characters, followed by motions of owned-creatures, followed by motions of wildlife. However, you don't have to "think about the moves", at every 60th of a second. You only need to think about 1 second. The other 59 frames is just a translation of that motion, which requires almost no thinking. You are just displaying the transition of motion from one cell to another cell.
So... How does that speed-up the game?
Well, you isolate the population into 60 lists. One per "frame-second". You only "think about new moves", for one list per frame-second. Then, using that completed "new-position", you begin translating that into the needed 1/60th interpolated X,Y positions. You are no longer thinking about them now, only "moving them", 1/60th of a position, as you now "think" about the second list of 60. A list which is only 1/60th of the entire population, and thus, 60x faster to run through and process... Are they able to move... Are they losing hunger... Are they losing health and bleeding-out... Are they done attacking or still mid-swing... etc...
This can extend to plant-growth, erosion, etc... You don't have to think about 600-million individual cells, in each "frame". You can split that into the initial 1/60th, making it only 10-million cells being thought about every 1/60th of a second. Further, you could split that into 1000 second chunks. Plants don't grow that fast, nor does erosion happen that fast. It is either happening, or it is not. If it is happening, you know how much it happens and can easily calculate how much per frame, but only have to think about it every 1000 seconds. (That is about 17 real minutes, between transitions.) So now the 10-million cells of potential "change", now only needs 10,000 cells to be "processed", to determine if something is happening or not, per frame-second.
The lists are figurative, but can be literal. It helps to locate things faster with smaller lists, as opposed to trying to "FIND" a specific thing from a massive list with a specific ID value to be processed. (Threading without actually threading. But, this actually makes the potential process of threading to be done in the future, easily. Because every action is already isolated for threading in parallel processing.)
How do you handle interactions of things not in the same "time-frame"... The same way you normally would. They are at a specific location or action, based on the transition or just based off the "destination" where they are headed. It's 1/60th of a second, and the micro-transition is almost irrelevant anyways. You have plenty of "free time" to process additional things now, since you are only processing 1/60th of critical things and 1/60000th of non-critical things, per second.
The simple version of this would simply use the last digit of each items ID-value, using 1/10th instead of 1/60th. Character #1234 is done on 4/10ths, Character #8322 is done on 2/10ths, Character #121 is done on 1/10ths of a cycle. Using the last numbers, 4, 2, 1 to determine when you "think about" or "process" them. Its real easy, again, to manage massive lists with deaths too. Each death, you simply move the last character into that other characters ID value. It becomes a self-balancing distribution of IDs. (Even if the ID is just a unique INDEX-Position in an array. But, again, its better to just keep 10 individual lists.)
This also makes it easy to fast-forward and slow down time too. You can optionally force processing of more, or less, as needed. Time is still time and nothing is lost in processing. Nothing that would be missed within a "second" of time.
You can free-up more time too... Using a "skip me" value/counter. If a character or event is "doing something" for x-seconds... it is busy and does not need "thinking". (Eg, a cow grazing, a character doing an attack, a plant done growing.) Skipping over those items can free-time to extend thinking into other things, like the next list, or something with a higher priority, or simply allowing the CPU/GPU to rest, keeping it ready for more responsive input.
I don't think you can make claims like this. It makes distant assumptions about the code and its developers. I would actually lean towards assuming the implementation as it is now is currently already more complex than what you've described. The optimizations you're talking about are basic, and some of these kinds of things may decrease performance anyway due to cache misses. Finally, there is also value in performing a computation regardless of whether or not it is needed, because checking if it is needed at all can obliterate branch prediction. I don't think it's as simple as you think.
Tarn Adams is a legend. Thanks
I'm glad you liked it!
This brings me so much Joy time to dig deep again.
I will get the steam version but i probly wont get it till there's some good mods for it. I'm honestly more happy that Tarn is gonna make a lot of money with the steam release. That man spent an insane amount of time making this game and he is finally going to get the money he deserves for it.
This gets me so hyped for the steam version!
Same tbh
Personally, I always get detached from the game once it gets out of the construction phase and turns into a political and emotional management simulator. I could do it, but it's very boring.
That's why you never stop building
Exactly. The fort must grow.
When I run out of projects to build I'm usually done with a place, managing dwarves gets tedious.
sup plague a yy lmao
wait, you get out of construction phase? All my forts lean heavily towards the Dwarf Sims once I'm doing taverns and dorms and temples. Oh, and tombs. So many.
Thank you very very much, both of you ... it means a lot! ( ´◔ ω◔`) ノシ
Out next week, i trrust!
Depends how subjective time is.
Yey
ye
Epic! Woooooo
Hell yea
so when does he think it will be released on steam? how long will it take before someone like me can get the game on steam?
hopefully this year
Support comment (NICE)
I support this comment.
According to the primordial animals concept, shouldn't there not be dingo men or giant dingos? Dingos are wild animals but they're descended from domesticated animals.
Oh no
I will never stop playing "Classic" DF.
Then keep playing it :D
Oh hey, I didn't know you had a youtube. Should have paid attention, this is nice.
The more you know!
@@BlindiRL It's great for me, since my schedule changed and I don't catch many streams anymore :).
@@ZackaryMusgrove And you won't have a back log when the schedule moves back!
Haha 😂 "That dwarf was rained upon and is unfixable depressed for the rest of his life"
Nobody talking about that jumpscare in the beggining?
It was long forgotten event after 1hour and 20 minutes of juicy stuff our ears could hear.
@@TheAmethyz That's true... i still got startled tho
I love tarn, I'm really looking forward to the magic update, and did you hear that the clowns reproduce naturally, I've played the game for 8 years now and have never seen that.
I've seen spoilers has given birth to twins in the announcement sections.
Do you think a breeding farm is possible, I'm gonna try could be tough though clowns are building destroyers, and do you think they can reproduce in the wild, kinda like how necromancer experiments can be come wild life except clowns, the fun would get intense
@@pringlelingle6827 Cmon Tarn add taming of clowns with candy caged in the game. Make em the less tame version that can revert at any time for optimal FUN
Just your guard clown suddenly turns around and kills your animal trainer that would be fun
Idk if tarn has ever answered it anywhere before but i really wanna know if dwarf fortress started out as him just going "a game like this would be really fun to play, well, why wait for someone else to make it? might aswell make it myself"
Yes, he's already answered this question. During the development of Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, Tarn began little side projects for fun, hence the creation of dwarf fortress. Dwarf fortress was originally supposed to be a game like dig dug where you try to get as much ore as possible with your little squadron of dwarves, but Tarn and Zach kept adding new features until it eventually spiraled into what we have today.
Perhaps the stress system should split be split in two
1) An unsatisfied dwarf complains
2) A dwarf become stressed when meeting complaining dwarfs
So you can fix the issue by removing the complainers or by removing the sensitive dwarfs.
Perhaps.
ty
Да е мое когда она выйдет с интерфейсом :'(
в ближайшие лет 10
не больше
Вот накопим жабе на синтетическое тело, а там всего 200 лет осталось
@@hideo1102 А нам кто накопит на синтетическое тело?:(
@@СлаваРеволюции Ну, у тебя еще 200 лет есть, так что дерзай!
\o/
Tarn is going to make Bank, on release...nuff said. I bet it’s too five on wishlist...since it was announced.
It will be out before Star Citizen kids!
thinking managing the stress on dwarves is the point of dwarf fortress is like thinking managing the needs bars is the point of The Sims
where is the promised link to the vod?
www.twitch.tv/blindirl/v/910476521?sr=a&t=2s did I really forget to link it?
@@BlindiRL Thanks!
Clipy is a company man, he just noticed you are trying to write a website and wants to know if you have tried Azure yet.
Can i ask about texture? :)
If you want to ask - ask it!
Don't ask about asking ;-)
Awesome interview!
A small typo in the time stamp for 30:31, sprites is misspelled :)
nice 👍..
Dude, imagine Forgotten Beasts with the characteristics of Pre-Cambrian era creatures. Absolute nightmarish creatures!
I want it kinda.
One day my children may get to play DF on steam
Well if you have six year olds they should be good by 8 so that checks out.
sounds like Linus tech tips
EDIT: not a bad thing ^
I live real close to him, We have the same speech patterns.
Jesus fucking christ, should of come with a warning for headphone users, that cat went thermonucular on something and it came through very freaking loud lol
what about half bear, half man-pigs?
Great interview, however, the sound volume difference between Tarn and you was really big and made it hard to listen.
Sorry about that :/ Discord audio sucks.
so, are we just done asking when its gonna come out? we all just accept that this isnt going to come out any time within the next couple years? seems like its time to give up on this pipe dream and just learn to live with tilesets....
remove-stress -all