What I really like about this arcs and pretty much every 80s and 90s Batman story is that almost every villain gets at least a scene to shine and be the major threat. It wasn't like modern stories where the writers always use the joker as major threat in 11 out of 10 stories.
@@zemox2534He's a perfect villain. *In his niche* And his niche isn't "everything". Also writers want Joker to be Batman's Nemesis as much as Joker wants it. They don't realize that Batman *already* has a Nemesis. It's called "Gotham". Everyone and everything else is just something that city is throwing at him
New Batman series Pitch: Okay, okay, first of all Joker. Joker, Joker, Joker, laughing gas, Smiling fish, Harley Quinn, Joker, Joker, Joker toxin, Ra’s Al Ghoul, Talia Al Ghul, Joker, Joker. (Bane????)
One of my favorite things about No Man's Land is in the Nightwing tie-in Batman gives Nightwing the task of basically taking on half of Batman's rogues gallery himself and locking down Blackgate on his own, and Nightwing is just like "bet."
Poor Bruce. The 90's were truly awful for him: lost his best friend, got crippled, his story was rewritten again and his beloved city was destroyed by a f*cking eatrhquake. What a life...
Actually, Cassandra's name is revealed in No Man's Land, the novel that accompanied this event written by Greg Rucka was later adapted into an audio drama. It retroactively ties Cass to show up earlier in the event and makes her, Helena, Babs, and Jim the focal points of the story.
That novelization was awesome, being a somewhat poor kid who loved comics but didn't have the income to buy regularly it was nice to have the story available in a less expensive format. Do kind of wish they covered all the tie ins but that's kind of unreasonable.
This is pretty much THE crossover of the Batman Family. You have no idea how much I appreciate and respect your effort of bringing us this content. As always THE Batman channel. Thank you Salazar.
For better or worse, No Man’s Land is the pure culmination of Batman in the 90s. It’s not perfect, but there are so many great moments and arcs throughout. It truly feels like a huge status quo shift beyond just being another crossover like those that came before. I actually do appreciate the differences in storytelling styles over the course of the event since it’s super long anyways. I do think that Huntress got the short end of the stick. I get that she was supposed to be an underdog, but I think they made Batman’s treatment of her go too far. Why did he have to fire her and manipulate her into working with and mediating Petit instead of just asking her to do so? Thanks for another great video. Hard to condense this huge story into something so watchable. And again you’ve deftly woven the behind the scenes context into the story.
I tend to think of Harley Quinn and Cassandra Cain as the ultimate answer to the Killing Joke, even though neither character has a direct tie to it. In the case of Harley Quinn, we find the vindication of Joker's belief that it only takes one bad day to turn people into him, because even after they break up, she never fully returns to her normal life, choosing to be her own vision of the Joker. In the case of Cassandra Cain, we find the payoff to Batman's belief that anyone can be saved, the basis of his vow to never kill. Cassandra was raised to be a killer and knew nothing else, but on her own she decided it was not the life she wanted, and when the opportunity came for her to become Batgirl, she joined the Bat Family and began a lifelong crusade to redeem herself. It may not mean anything, but I think it's an interesting coincidence that they both officially joined Batman's comic universe in the pages of No Man's Land.
I'm honestly sad about the fact that all the amazing writers working with DC prior to no Man's land got fired... that lineup writers were truely nearest and dearest to me and experience with batman comics. In the end we dude get one of the biggest story of the decade... but at what cost?
@@jakeproven256 Yes! I also agree with you. The dialogue in Chuck Dixon's stories is terrible. The only revealing thing he did was create bane, I was just reading the stories Chuck wrote about Robin and I'm embarrassed by the dialogue.
@@jakeproven256 I disagree. By that logic, lots of great works would be lost because their creators are deemed terrible.Dixon earned his badge far as I am concerned.
The reason Bruce was the only one to leave Gotham is because he was the only one who realistically could and make it back. Everyone else, if they left, wouldn't have been able to get back into Gotham until No Man's Land had ended and it was time to rebuild. Similarly, Huntress not being accepted as Batgirl made sense as she already had her own identity and she wasn't as willing to follow Batman. She would work with him sure, but he needed people who would follow his lead without question and that wasn't something Helena was equipped to do yet. Cassandra, on the other hand, was virtually a blank slate by comparison. She could be molded into the soldier he could use in the war for Gotham while also he knew he needed to help her as well to overcome her upbringing. Putting her in the Batgirl suit was the first step towards that
It is gorgeous how you point out all the details that made this story arc stand out while also describing the arcs of the characters and also the overall runs weak plot and chsracter points. I strongly recommend that you do a part two of No Man's Land highlighting your top 20,10,5 best stories or your favourite moments from the series as I believe No Man's land would benefit from a detailed analysis . Your observations on Sarah and how her murder peminded her importantance to Gordon and to us as readers retrospectively, your observations on the huntress and on the sudden absurd ending along with confusion on the panels and what they convey, all these were wonderful observations.
No Man's Land didn't go far enough. This was one of the best Batman stories ever. It took Batman's city and status quo, and literally shook it to the core. A disaster so bad, even Superman couldn't fix it. This story was proof that Batman's way does and can work, and showed gotham's citizens joining the Batman to rebuild and improve Gotham City.
21:30 in the writers defense Cassandra did not have the years of bad history with Batman that helena does. Remember, she started as a female Punisher, not a Batfam™ approved hero. Bruce will never actually trust her. Cassandra just had to show she could follow orders and not kill anybody
This was one of the first Batman stories I read and introduced me to a ton of the wider Gotham cast. One of my favorite stories is of the faceless white suited man bartering with people to save them from rubble. "What is your profession?" Such an amazing display of how greed and inhumanity can strive and thrive even in a cataclysm
No Man's Land is a weird one. It's too long and becomes repetitive. The tattooed rock star cult leader who instigates Congress to cut off Gotham is an insanely dumb plot device. The story makes no sense in the context of a world of super humans who could air drop food and medical supplies 24/7. Superman himself could have rebuilt the city. Dark Knight Rises fixes the No Man's Land storyline by giving a logical reason why the government would abandon Gotham (the threat of nuclear destruction) and, with no super powered beings, regular people have to solve the problem. I've always thought Batman and the more ground level characters should have their own separate Earth away from the god-like beings. No Man's Land is a perfect example of why.
Superman did try to help but it didn’t really work out. As far as I remember, the Justice League books did mention that the League was protecting the city from the outside from being attacked by other villains.
@@sunsetman22 It's been adapted to some degree in several media like Batman Arkham City & Knight, Gotham, The Batman (although one could argue that's more of an adaptation of Zero Year), etc...
One thing never sat well with me was how quick Bruce was to take the cowl away from Helena and immediately give it to Cassandra. While Bruce disappeared and went on his self pity journey, Helena stayed behind and essentially did his job of giving Gotham alive through the worst. And going into No Man’s Land TPB with zero backstory not even Cataclysm, I was like who the heck is this mute girl and how has she earned the mantle of Batgirl when she’s literally trained to be a deadly assassin as a child. Idk Huntress deserved a lot more in my eyes.
Cataclysm should have taken place in Metropolis simply because there is no way that they would ever rebuild that Gothic architecture, it'd be all shiny and modern- like Metropolis. If Superman didn't show up for such a disaster, then he's clearly off-world. Have Bats & Huntress in Metropolis, heck, have them save Lois...
Loved the story overall, just always had trouble imaging it taking place in the regular DCUniverse. There is just to many overpowered in DC and I mean, even if I assumed everyone else was busy, I can't imagine a scenario where Flash couldn't stop for a minute and organize a flash mob with friends and family, to repair and clean everything up a little, at least allowing for regular help to arrive. Back in the day, I always assumed, I had missed an issue where some villain claimed to have mined the city to blow it up if anyone with superpowers enters or leaves Gotham - but all I ever found was more of a cop out, than a good explanation.
I was burnt out reading Spider-Man's clone saga & Superman turning into an electric Smurf. I decided to give the Batman titles a try during this period & glad I did. As you said, it wasn't perfect but it entertained me enough. Another thing you mentioned that I agreed with was there were *_too_* many Batman titles to buy & follow the story. I'm glad I discovered your channel. Great review on this. 👍🏻I just subbed.
Excellent overview of this giant storyline. I read this entire story off the rack and was captivated by it. I was in high school and nothing rivaled the drama and excitement of NML back then. I've never reread it, but I think I might have to go down that path soon.
The No Man's Land novel was quite enjoyable, but I did not realize that the comic book version was so large. There are also major differences between the two, at least as I remember it. I need to read both.
As always, thankful that your channel exists because when I was a kid, videos like these didn’t happen. Think of it this way, your video may be a future comic book fan’s first ever exposure to this medium. Keep it up, you rock!
Excellent work. I know it must have been tough to shave this down to a three hour video, let alone a thirty-eight minute video. One of the best videos I’ve seen on NML.
This actually was my starting point, decades after its run. A bunch of its issues were on the SALE box at my local comicbook store. At the moment i didnt have a lot of money, so I started collecting those, the 1999 Titans run and the Harley quinn solo series. I dont know if it´s nostalgia but it still is my favorite Batman story.
me, a Chilean who lived as a kid the 2010's 27F earthquake, the fifth strongest earthquake in the last 100 years and being from the country who was hit by the biggest earthquake ever, feels like walking through my memories
Hi, my first Batman story was No Man’s Land! I don’t agree that Bane is depicted as a simple thug for hire. He’s a mercenary, sure, but he is shown to possess intellect, insight, wit, and self-interest. The Clayface story was the highlight for me, followed by Superman’s guest appearances. I think it’s fair to say it was a big break in terms of vision, but we can’t acknowledge that without talking about what followed it. Detective Comics adopted a highly stylised visual theme that recalled film noir and focussed on GCPD. It didn’t last more than a few years but it was an amazing run that gave us some incredible stories and character examinations. My boomer mum started picking up my direct editions and was very complimentary of them.
One really bad missed opportunity with this whole destroyed Gotham plotline is that this was basically the best outcome for Poison Ivy. She should have been on it day one and used this as an opportunity for herself to grow her power and take Gotham over with plantlife, maybe even take control of all the other villains and turn them into her personal little army. I think a more concrete main villain would help direct the plots a bit better.
This video is excellent. You did a great job covering a massive, sprawling, complex time in the comics. It’s all fun and games until No Man’s Land enters the chat!
This was a game changer for Batman's I think this was the last creative team they had for 13 years's work and after that they got new writer's for the new Gotham storyline
Thanks for making this video! I have fond memories of _"No Man's Land"_ , and I was super hyped up when the show *Gotham* partially adapted it for its 5th and final season. Even if the events are different, the setting is similar enough that it feels like a "mini NML" to give Bruce Wayne in his 5th year as a young aspirant vigilante gstuff to do before his 10 years long trip around that world that would lead to the show's finale. Keep up the good work, Chevalier Salazar!
"...a very questionable plot about the Quakemaster." Erm... You're kidding right?! The Quakemaster was one of my favourite parts about this whole event. Spoilers below, in case over two decades isn't long enough: The fucking VENTRILOQUIST of all villains finds a way to turn this act of God to his advantage. Of all the Batman gimmick villains searching for relevance, the Ventriloquist has to be one of the hardest to turn into an actual threat. There is almost NO advantage he has over a conventional criminal besides the legal complications of locking up a man for the crimes of his alter-ego (a complication which is rarely a factor). If Scarface was a real person he'd be more efficient in every single way. The Ventriloquist is a villain who is hobbled by his gimmick, not aided by it. Until Quakemaster. Suddenly it's WESKER'S talent which comes to the fore, aided by Scarface's mind. Wesker's ability to create a new persona. To present as a completely unheard of and mysterious player. If any known Batman rogue had claimed they'd caused the earthquake, there'd be doubt. But Quakemaster? No one doubts him. No one questions whether he's real. No one even thinks to ask the question. Because Wesker has brought him to life. And therefore the laughable claim is considered credable. Coupled with Scarface's quick thinking of putting this genius a plan together so soon after complete unexpected disaster, and you have here the Ventriloquist's greatest ploy! He didn't just come up with a near effortless way of making money when everybody else was reeling and trying to recoup losses, but he justified the Ventriloquist gimmick and made himself worthy as a Batman rogue. If Batman wasn't a the world's greatest detective, this plan certainly would have succeeded. If they ever do any more ventriloquist 1 stories, they absolutely have to have him try this again: Wesker creating fake players which aids Scarface's criminal schemes.
19:23 Just like how Judas Traveller was originally supposed to be a much bigger antagonist in the Clone Saga, there were initial plans to make Scratch the actual main antagonist behind No Man's Land and to have his downfall occur near the end and at the hands of Batman. When the shift in writers started to happen, the storyline also was altered; Scratch became a much more forgettable villain and was taken down by Azrael much earlier in the storyline.
This is where I gave up on the series back in the day. Just couldn't keep up with that many monthly entries, dark and gritty overload set in, and Azrael's new look was HORRIBLE. Started reading just before Knightfall and ended here.
Thank you for covering this story! I love this channel it’s a good guide through Batman’s history and the important stories in it! Keep it up great job!
These videos are so good, you covered this excellently. While the event itself is hilariously illogical (which would be fine considering it was a major 90s crossover, but it gets ridiculous fairly quickly outside the main story), it's importance to the Batman Mythos and DC as a whole cannot be understated. Ironically, destroying Gotham ended up making it a truly living, vivid city.
As a matter of fact, this was the first big story I read in the Batman mythos. I had started reading Batgirl (with Cassandra) and Robin, and decided to read the entirety of No Man's Land starting from the earthquake. I agree there were a lot of issues between art consistency and just how much of an ass Batman was, but he also didn't exactly become NOT an ass between this point and Flashpoint, so I read it as a character flaw rather than a flaw in a character's writing. On a side note, I'm writing a huge, anthological project right now--nothing to do with Batman, but still--where I've found myself drawing some inspiration from this entire saga in order to build and eventually resolve the major conflict that impacts so many characters across one land. It has been about eleven years since I last read the entire saga, but it's left that much of an impact on me as a writer. Cheers.
Wow, never realized how much The Dark Knight Rises was inspired by this story. Always thought its plot was mostly original with bits from Knightfall whatnot. Heck, The Dark Knight even used that plot point you mentioned about the Joker disguising people to have them killed in a friendly fire. Cool to know.
Fantastic video as always. Still have all these original issues and I liked the event but I do agree it was ver inconsistent. As far as being the longest event I think Hickman’s Krakoa saga might be even longer. So long I dropped it not even halfway through.
That Joker bit at the end was honestly too fucking dumb to be allowed to exist. It should've ended with him dead, and not in a "We didn't find the body" way, but a full panel of Gordon putting multiple rounds through his skull. There was zero reason to let him live after that. Hell, there was little reason to let him live after Jason Todd, but this one sealed the deal. You can debate the ethics of "Am I as bad as the mass murdering narcissist?" over his body as it's being tossed into a woodchipper and the remnants burned before the ashes are scattered.
Not to mention all the innocent people he killed immediately after that. Not outright killing or permanently disabling someone like the Joker is honestly abetting him. They don't even ship him off somewhere he'll actually be secured, just calmly walk him off in a semi-dignified manner not even afforded to low-level crooks who stole a purse! If this truly was a new Gotham, then Joker shouldn't have been allowed to continue along with it.
@@Neillan Yup. The poetry of just letting consequences catch up with him after all that time would've been wonderful. To say nothing of letting his passing herald real change (for the better) in Gotham.
thing is, writers have to escalate Jokers deeds because after so many decades of stories with him there is barely any room left upwards unless they make everything new he does even more terrifieng then before. Heck, even at that point multiple people in that line of work could say, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Joker could never actually plead for insanity realistically anymore because of the insane precision of his plans tended to have. The only thing keeping him in the game are the creative teams - and not because they want, but have to, because anything else would be progression from the status quo of Batman.
Great video highlighting the pros/cons of the story arc along with the behind-the-scenes drama going on at DC during this period. Having read most of the comics run back in the 90s AND the more condensed novelization Rucka wrote a few years later, I have to say the novelization does a better job of cutting out the filler to present a much tighter story that preserves the most important plot beats. Along with the Dark Knight Returns & Hush, I re-read the novelization every few years, because I enjoyed it so much.
This was one of the best Bat stories Ive ever read and had amazing art in the initial story where batgirl showed up. The character development qnd stakes for every character including minor ones like sarah essen still holds up today. Now i wanna reread it!
I read comics before, but NML and the Scott Beatty Ultimate Guide made me a regular comics reader. Those days in the late 90’s early 2000’s with Greg Rucka, Ed Brubaker, Devin Grayson, Gail Simone, Darwyn Cooke, Ty Templeton were a great era for Batfans.
Would you say that story is less digestible/more intimidating than Knightfall? I find it intensely moving, but the death of Sarah still angers me today, and makes it feel like an unnecessarily tragic ending. I do love that Rucka did a lot in his New Gotham year of comics following to show the fallout. I also think that the Greg Rucka novelization of the story is a good summary, though like the Knightfall BBC radio drama, it is not in print.
I think Greg Rucka’s novelization is the best way to consume no man’s land. It stands alone as a self-contained story that isn’t bogged down by the tangled continuity of the larger DCU. It cuts out all the filler and dives right into the meat and potatoes of the main story.
Even though this arc and The Dark Knight Rises are not seen as Batman’s finest outings, I like how the former inspired the latter. It’s cool to see directors work with material that isn’t just The Dark Knight Returns or The Long Halloween. Nolan’s third film went from Dark Knight Returns to Knightfall to No Man’s Land. Although, I do enjoy different interpretations of the same story. The Dark Knight and The Batman were both going off the Long Halloween, and each presented the story in a very unique way.
Mo Man's Land was when I first started reading Batman comics. It just happened that was when I started collecting comics. I hadn't read Cataclysm or Aftershocks, so I was *very* confused about what was going on.
Makes perfect sense actually. 25:05. Bruce is totally burned out. The GCPD, Leslie, the citizens, don't stretch themselves thin as much as Bruce does. Like he doesn't have a good "work/life balance". Even the Bat family is the total opposite. They pursue their lives, interests, hobbies, extracurricular activities outside of work and actually take life seriously. Bruce pushes himself so much further than anyone else with so much focus on his mission that it has become the only life he really knows so he's mostly cut off from the real world. It's more like Bruce Wayne is the costume! lol But the point is he burned himself out. He takes so much of the responsibility of protecting Gotham all on himself. This being the worst enemy he's ever faced and having no answers it makes sense he'd be the one to break down.
Excellent video! ...with an excellent title. No Man's Land was not a terrible idea, but it went on and on and on. And after several months, going ridiculously slow, the writer suddenly got in a dreadful hurry to wrap it all up. The Joker seemed like an afterthought, he appeared to be added to the story solely to increase the speed. The tragedies he caused, were nothing but fridging.
No Man's Land is an excellent crossover and a very iconic Batmam history that i adore; however i admit that it has a low of faults specially in the pacing. By the way; i instantly recognized the soundtrack from Darksiders 2 in the video.
great video and summary! the only thing I'd disagree is not killing Joker. He's the character that has caused so much pain and death, his antics have had so much repercussions that it doesn't make sense that he's allowed to live.
I understand how it makes him look bad, but I also think it's completely understandable that Batman would eventually hit his limit and collapse with all the shit he went through on the regular. It's just the straw that broke the camel's back.
NML finale also saw a costume change for Batman. He departed from the all dark look he adapted from Knight End to a more bright look with the yellow oval gone from the symbol and a noticable trunks. He wore that costume all th way until the Grand Morrison era and later the New 52.
Hello sorry Im late to the comment section I haven’t had time to watch full video. Anyway now for my very „analytical“ review of your review/overview/analysis or whatever of No Mans land. Well umm how do I say it, ITS THE BEST BATMAN TH-cam VIDEO I’ve ever seen ! Like you know what I said on your last video and how it left me speechless, now im wordless man XD. It feels pointless writing comments sometimes when you don’t have a problem with a video, I just wanna say Sal keep it going man! Ps Nice that you mentioned Tally man, he’s underrated in my opinion (but I think I mention my opinion on him before). Take care of yourself dude and all the other people that read this wayy to long comment :)
No Man's Land Was my jumping off point into regularly following Batman comics; they couldn't sustain my interest after it ended, though, in part because they tried integrating Batman too much in the greater DC Universe. No Man's Land was a world.
I realized how much research has gone into this story when in 2004 Katrina has there was a lot of similarities to No Mans Land... it was like NML was prophetic. It was eerie.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
What I really like about this arcs and pretty much every 80s and 90s Batman story is that almost every villain gets at least a scene to shine and be the major threat. It wasn't like modern stories where the writers always use the joker as major threat in 11 out of 10 stories.
That's so fucking true. It's annoying. Everyone wants to write Joker and he's slowly becoming to Batman what Batman is to DC. And he's over relied on.
@Bardia006plus1 He is also overrated. Seriously, I am just sick of the Joker being shoved into everything
@@zemox2534He's a perfect villain.
*In his niche*
And his niche isn't "everything".
Also writers want Joker to be Batman's Nemesis as much as Joker wants it. They don't realize that Batman *already* has a Nemesis.
It's called "Gotham". Everyone and everything else is just something that city is throwing at him
@@nicholashodges201
Perfect explanation!
New Batman series Pitch: Okay, okay, first of all Joker. Joker, Joker, Joker, laughing gas, Smiling fish, Harley Quinn, Joker, Joker, Joker toxin, Ra’s Al Ghoul, Talia Al Ghul, Joker, Joker. (Bane????)
One of my favorite things about No Man's Land is in the Nightwing tie-in Batman gives Nightwing the task of basically taking on half of Batman's rogues gallery himself and locking down Blackgate on his own, and Nightwing is just like "bet."
Poor Bruce. The 90's were truly awful for him: lost his best friend, got crippled, his story was rewritten again and his beloved city was destroyed by a f*cking eatrhquake. What a life...
His best friend?
Don’t forget that Virus that Bane unleashed in that other story .
@@matthewschwartz6607I think he meant Superman during the Doomsday arc.
The 90s were called the Dark Age for a reason
Well I love 90's Batman for the most part. And no one ever said superheroing was easy, so Brucie's gotta earn his keep...
Actually, Cassandra's name is revealed in No Man's Land, the novel that accompanied this event written by Greg Rucka was later adapted into an audio drama. It retroactively ties Cass to show up earlier in the event and makes her, Helena, Babs, and Jim the focal points of the story.
Yeah, the book actually kept this part in. The Cain stuff was good, too.
That novelization was awesome, being a somewhat poor kid who loved comics but didn't have the income to buy regularly it was nice to have the story available in a less expensive format. Do kind of wish they covered all the tie ins but that's kind of unreasonable.
I listened to the same audio and man it was so good. Honestly it being shown through their eyes made the story more relatable and heartfelt.
Wish you had referenced Hitman's No Man's Land tie in
This is pretty much THE crossover of the Batman Family. You have no idea how much I appreciate and respect your effort of bringing us this content.
As always THE Batman channel. Thank you Salazar.
Thank you, Chris. It's always good to read your comments.
For better or worse, No Man’s Land is the pure culmination of Batman in the 90s. It’s not perfect, but there are so many great moments and arcs throughout. It truly feels like a huge status quo shift beyond just being another crossover like those that came before. I actually do appreciate the differences in storytelling styles over the course of the event since it’s super long anyways.
I do think that Huntress got the short end of the stick. I get that she was supposed to be an underdog, but I think they made Batman’s treatment of her go too far. Why did he have to fire her and manipulate her into working with and mediating Petit instead of just asking her to do so?
Thanks for another great video. Hard to condense this huge story into something so watchable. And again you’ve deftly woven the behind the scenes context into the story.
I tend to think of Harley Quinn and Cassandra Cain as the ultimate answer to the Killing Joke, even though neither character has a direct tie to it.
In the case of Harley Quinn, we find the vindication of Joker's belief that it only takes one bad day to turn people into him, because even after they break up, she never fully returns to her normal life, choosing to be her own vision of the Joker.
In the case of Cassandra Cain, we find the payoff to Batman's belief that anyone can be saved, the basis of his vow to never kill. Cassandra was raised to be a killer and knew nothing else, but on her own she decided it was not the life she wanted, and when the opportunity came for her to become Batgirl, she joined the Bat Family and began a lifelong crusade to redeem herself.
It may not mean anything, but I think it's an interesting coincidence that they both officially joined Batman's comic universe in the pages of No Man's Land.
I'm honestly sad about the fact that all the amazing writers working with DC prior to no Man's land got fired... that lineup writers were truely nearest and dearest to me and experience with batman comics. In the end we dude get one of the biggest story of the decade... but at what cost?
Only Dennis O'Neil and Paul Levitiz respected the writers they entrusted with Batman
@jakeproven256 which Is why Alan Grant is the GOAT
@@jakeproven256 Yes! I also agree with you. The dialogue in Chuck Dixon's stories is terrible. The only revealing thing he did was create bane, I was just reading the stories Chuck wrote about Robin and I'm embarrassed by the dialogue.
@@jakeproven256 I disagree. By that logic, lots of great works would be lost because their creators are deemed terrible.Dixon earned his badge far as I am concerned.
@@devilwhite7185... no. Dialogue is fine. Morrison and Claremont are far fucking worse in that department...
The reason Bruce was the only one to leave Gotham is because he was the only one who realistically could and make it back. Everyone else, if they left, wouldn't have been able to get back into Gotham until No Man's Land had ended and it was time to rebuild.
Similarly, Huntress not being accepted as Batgirl made sense as she already had her own identity and she wasn't as willing to follow Batman. She would work with him sure, but he needed people who would follow his lead without question and that wasn't something Helena was equipped to do yet. Cassandra, on the other hand, was virtually a blank slate by comparison. She could be molded into the soldier he could use in the war for Gotham while also he knew he needed to help her as well to overcome her upbringing. Putting her in the Batgirl suit was the first step towards that
It is gorgeous how you point out all the details that made this story arc stand out while also describing the arcs of the characters and also the overall runs weak plot and chsracter points.
I strongly recommend that you do a part two of No Man's Land highlighting your top 20,10,5 best stories or your favourite moments from the series as I believe No Man's land would benefit from a detailed analysis .
Your observations on Sarah and how her murder peminded her importantance to Gordon and to us as readers retrospectively, your observations on the huntress and on the sudden absurd ending along with confusion on the panels and what they convey, all these were wonderful observations.
No Man's Land didn't go far enough. This was one of the best Batman stories ever.
It took Batman's city and status quo, and literally shook it to the core. A disaster so bad, even Superman couldn't fix it.
This story was proof that Batman's way does and can work, and showed gotham's citizens joining the Batman to rebuild and improve Gotham City.
21:30 in the writers defense Cassandra did not have the years of bad history with Batman that helena does. Remember, she started as a female Punisher, not a Batfam™ approved hero. Bruce will never actually trust her.
Cassandra just had to show she could follow orders and not kill anybody
I'm pretty sure Bruce trusts Cass at this point
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231Man, Bruce trusts Cass so much she's to this day, the best new candidate to take the mask.
It'll never happen now.
This was one of the first Batman stories I read and introduced me to a ton of the wider Gotham cast. One of my favorite stories is of the faceless white suited man bartering with people to save them from rubble.
"What is your profession?"
Such an amazing display of how greed and inhumanity can strive and thrive even in a cataclysm
I can close my eyes and still see that page.
This one needs to be turned into an animated series
An animated standalone trilogy of movies would be great. Kind of like they did with The Long Halloween, but with three parts.
Exactly
@ChristopherKou long Halloween supposed to adapt dark victory which is the sequel which is slept on cause it's a great robin origin story
Almost was
They better keep the dinosaur zoo part
No Man's Land is a weird one. It's too long and becomes repetitive. The tattooed rock star cult leader who instigates Congress to cut off Gotham is an insanely dumb plot device. The story makes no sense in the context of a world of super humans who could air drop food and medical supplies 24/7. Superman himself could have rebuilt the city. Dark Knight Rises fixes the No Man's Land storyline by giving a logical reason why the government would abandon Gotham (the threat of nuclear destruction) and, with no super powered beings, regular people have to solve the problem. I've always thought Batman and the more ground level characters should have their own separate Earth away from the god-like beings. No Man's Land is a perfect example of why.
holy hell, forgot that Dark Knight Rises technically adapted No Man's Land, kinda how BvS technically adapted TDKR
Superman did try to help but it didn’t really work out. As far as I remember, the Justice League books did mention that the League was protecting the city from the outside from being attacked by other villains.
@@bibbyboxx2219
That sounds like a bit of a cop-out really.
@@sunsetman22 It's been adapted to some degree in several media like Batman Arkham City & Knight, Gotham, The Batman (although one could argue that's more of an adaptation of Zero Year), etc...
One thing never sat well with me was how quick Bruce was to take the cowl away from Helena and immediately give it to Cassandra. While Bruce disappeared and went on his self pity journey, Helena stayed behind and essentially did his job of giving Gotham alive through the worst. And going into No Man’s Land TPB with zero backstory not even Cataclysm, I was like who the heck is this mute girl and how has she earned the mantle of Batgirl when she’s literally trained to be a deadly assassin as a child. Idk Huntress deserved a lot more in my eyes.
I think Bruce wanted to give the girl a chance as she was someone who would follow his orders without question while Huntress wasn't.
Cataclysm should have taken place in Metropolis simply because there is no way that they would ever rebuild that Gothic architecture, it'd be all shiny and modern- like Metropolis.
If Superman didn't show up for such a disaster, then he's clearly off-world. Have Bats & Huntress in Metropolis, heck, have them save Lois...
Loved the story overall, just always had trouble imaging it taking place in the regular DCUniverse. There is just to many overpowered in DC and I mean, even if I assumed everyone else was busy, I can't imagine a scenario where Flash couldn't stop for a minute and organize a flash mob with friends and family, to repair and clean everything up a little, at least allowing for regular help to arrive.
Back in the day, I always assumed, I had missed an issue where some villain claimed to have mined the city to blow it up if anyone with superpowers enters or leaves Gotham - but all I ever found was more of a cop out, than a good explanation.
I do get that and story does go out of its way to explain some of it but truth be told at some point suspension of disbelief is important
The 90's man. If there was a decade of excess in the comics history, that was it. And No Man's Land one of its primary examples.
I was burnt out reading Spider-Man's clone saga & Superman turning into an electric Smurf. I decided to give the Batman titles a try during this period & glad I did. As you said, it wasn't perfect but it entertained me enough. Another thing you mentioned that I agreed with was there were *_too_* many Batman titles to buy & follow the story. I'm glad I discovered your channel. Great review on this. 👍🏻I just subbed.
Excellent overview of this giant storyline. I read this entire story off the rack and was captivated by it. I was in high school and nothing rivaled the drama and excitement of NML back then. I've never reread it, but I think I might have to go down that path soon.
0:07
I have to admit the "..And I like it" moment was honestly pretty cute. It was probably Helena's most girly moment
The No Man's Land novel was quite enjoyable, but I did not realize that the comic book version was so large. There are also major differences between the two, at least as I remember it. I need to read both.
As always, thankful that your channel exists because when I was a kid, videos like these didn’t happen. Think of it this way, your video may be a future comic book fan’s first ever exposure to this medium. Keep it up, you rock!
Excellent work. I know it must have been tough to shave this down to a three hour video, let alone a thirty-eight minute video. One of the best videos I’ve seen on NML.
One of the best videos I've seen on Batman, period.
This actually was my starting point, decades after its run. A bunch of its issues were on the SALE box at my local comicbook store. At the moment i didnt have a lot of money, so I started collecting those, the 1999 Titans run and the Harley quinn solo series. I dont know if it´s nostalgia but it still is my favorite Batman story.
me, a Chilean who lived as a kid the 2010's 27F earthquake, the fifth strongest earthquake in the last 100 years and being from the country who was hit by the biggest earthquake ever, feels like walking through my memories
Hi, my first Batman story was No Man’s Land!
I don’t agree that Bane is depicted as a simple thug for hire. He’s a mercenary, sure, but he is shown to possess intellect, insight, wit, and self-interest.
The Clayface story was the highlight for me, followed by Superman’s guest appearances.
I think it’s fair to say it was a big break in terms of vision, but we can’t acknowledge that without talking about what followed it. Detective Comics adopted a highly stylised visual theme that recalled film noir and focussed on GCPD. It didn’t last more than a few years but it was an amazing run that gave us some incredible stories and character examinations. My boomer mum started picking up my direct editions and was very complimentary of them.
One really bad missed opportunity with this whole destroyed Gotham plotline is that this was basically the best outcome for Poison Ivy. She should have been on it day one and used this as an opportunity for herself to grow her power and take Gotham over with plantlife, maybe even take control of all the other villains and turn them into her personal little army. I think a more concrete main villain would help direct the plots a bit better.
This video is excellent. You did a great job covering a massive, sprawling, complex time in the comics.
It’s all fun and games until No Man’s Land enters the chat!
This was a game changer for Batman's I think this was the last creative team they had for 13 years's work and after that they got new writer's for the new Gotham storyline
Thanks for making this video! I have fond memories of _"No Man's Land"_ , and I was super hyped up when the show *Gotham* partially adapted it for its 5th and final season.
Even if the events are different, the setting is similar enough that it feels like a "mini NML" to give Bruce Wayne in his 5th year as a young aspirant vigilante gstuff to do before his 10 years long trip around that world that would lead to the show's finale.
Keep up the good work, Chevalier Salazar!
No Man's Land is my favorite arc, thank you
"...a very questionable plot about the Quakemaster." Erm... You're kidding right?! The Quakemaster was one of my favourite parts about this whole event. Spoilers below, in case over two decades isn't long enough:
The fucking VENTRILOQUIST of all villains finds a way to turn this act of God to his advantage. Of all the Batman gimmick villains searching for relevance, the Ventriloquist has to be one of the hardest to turn into an actual threat. There is almost NO advantage he has over a conventional criminal besides the legal complications of locking up a man for the crimes of his alter-ego (a complication which is rarely a factor). If Scarface was a real person he'd be more efficient in every single way. The Ventriloquist is a villain who is hobbled by his gimmick, not aided by it.
Until Quakemaster. Suddenly it's WESKER'S talent which comes to the fore, aided by Scarface's mind. Wesker's ability to create a new persona. To present as a completely unheard of and mysterious player. If any known Batman rogue had claimed they'd caused the earthquake, there'd be doubt. But Quakemaster? No one doubts him. No one questions whether he's real. No one even thinks to ask the question. Because Wesker has brought him to life. And therefore the laughable claim is considered credable.
Coupled with Scarface's quick thinking of putting this genius a plan together so soon after complete unexpected disaster, and you have here the Ventriloquist's greatest ploy! He didn't just come up with a near effortless way of making money when everybody else was reeling and trying to recoup losses, but he justified the Ventriloquist gimmick and made himself worthy as a Batman rogue.
If Batman wasn't a the world's greatest detective, this plan certainly would have succeeded. If they ever do any more ventriloquist 1 stories, they absolutely have to have him try this again: Wesker creating fake players which aids Scarface's criminal schemes.
I absolutely agree !
19:23 Just like how Judas Traveller was originally supposed to be a much bigger antagonist in the Clone Saga, there were initial plans to make Scratch the actual main antagonist behind No Man's Land and to have his downfall occur near the end and at the hands of Batman.
When the shift in writers started to happen, the storyline also was altered; Scratch became a much more forgettable villain and was taken down by Azrael much earlier in the storyline.
Scratch and azrael were by far the worst part of the series to me
This is where I gave up on the series back in the day. Just couldn't keep up with that many monthly entries, dark and gritty overload set in, and Azrael's new look was HORRIBLE. Started reading just before Knightfall and ended here.
Brilliant stuff
Well done to you Sir for condensing all of that into a single astute video
I might take a break now
Thank you for covering this story! I love this channel it’s a good guide through Batman’s history and the important stories in it! Keep it up great job!
These videos are so good, you covered this excellently. While the event itself is hilariously illogical (which would be fine considering it was a major 90s crossover, but it gets ridiculous fairly quickly outside the main story), it's importance to the Batman Mythos and DC as a whole cannot be understated. Ironically, destroying Gotham ended up making it a truly living, vivid city.
Love your videos bro absolutely stunning
10:00 The Batman creative team showing off their work on the multiple Batsuits for the 3 part DC Elseworlds story "Brotherhood of The Bat"
One of my favorite Batman storylines, was looking forward to your video on it! 👍
It's funny how Cataclysm and No Man's Land happened right before 9/11.
No Man's Land is what got me back into reading the bat family.
As a matter of fact, this was the first big story I read in the Batman mythos. I had started reading Batgirl (with Cassandra) and Robin, and decided to read the entirety of No Man's Land starting from the earthquake. I agree there were a lot of issues between art consistency and just how much of an ass Batman was, but he also didn't exactly become NOT an ass between this point and Flashpoint, so I read it as a character flaw rather than a flaw in a character's writing.
On a side note, I'm writing a huge, anthological project right now--nothing to do with Batman, but still--where I've found myself drawing some inspiration from this entire saga in order to build and eventually resolve the major conflict that impacts so many characters across one land. It has been about eleven years since I last read the entire saga, but it's left that much of an impact on me as a writer.
Cheers.
It was my 1st batman story to read and I loved it. I still got in in paperback.
Wow, never realized how much The Dark Knight Rises was inspired by this story. Always thought its plot was mostly original with bits from Knightfall whatnot. Heck, The Dark Knight even used that plot point you mentioned about the Joker disguising people to have them killed in a friendly fire. Cool to know.
Subscribed a year ago and the content has been worth it every time.
I had collected Batman and Detective for years but this was the story that made me say, enough is enough.
Fantastic video as always. Still have all these original issues and I liked the event but I do agree it was ver inconsistent. As far as being the longest event I think Hickman’s Krakoa saga might be even longer. So long I dropped it not even halfway through.
That Joker bit at the end was honestly too fucking dumb to be allowed to exist. It should've ended with him dead, and not in a "We didn't find the body" way, but a full panel of Gordon putting multiple rounds through his skull. There was zero reason to let him live after that. Hell, there was little reason to let him live after Jason Todd, but this one sealed the deal. You can debate the ethics of "Am I as bad as the mass murdering narcissist?" over his body as it's being tossed into a woodchipper and the remnants burned before the ashes are scattered.
Not to mention all the innocent people he killed immediately after that. Not outright killing or permanently disabling someone like the Joker is honestly abetting him. They don't even ship him off somewhere he'll actually be secured, just calmly walk him off in a semi-dignified manner not even afforded to low-level crooks who stole a purse!
If this truly was a new Gotham, then Joker shouldn't have been allowed to continue along with it.
#facts. That's one of the reasons the Batman comics were getting pretty dumb at this point
@@Neillan Yup. The poetry of just letting consequences catch up with him after all that time would've been wonderful. To say nothing of letting his passing herald real change (for the better) in Gotham.
Yes indeed😊
thing is, writers have to escalate Jokers deeds because after so many decades of stories with him there is barely any room left upwards unless they make everything new he does even more terrifieng then before.
Heck, even at that point multiple people in that line of work could say, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Joker could never actually plead for insanity realistically anymore because of the insane precision of his plans tended to have. The only thing keeping him in the game are the creative teams - and not because they want, but have to, because anything else would be progression from the status quo of Batman.
Great video man! Thanks for the in-depth look at this series
Honestly I think No Man’s Land could work well as one of DC’s animated movies it would be a great way to involve the entire Bat family for a movie.
Great video highlighting the pros/cons of the story arc along with the behind-the-scenes drama going on at DC during this period. Having read most of the comics run back in the 90s AND the more condensed novelization Rucka wrote a few years later, I have to say the novelization does a better job of cutting out the filler to present a much tighter story that preserves the most important plot beats. Along with the Dark Knight Returns & Hush, I re-read the novelization every few years, because I enjoyed it so much.
So happy I found this channel. You deserve way more views and subscribers.
Excellent job. Since discovering your channel and watching everything you've put out thus far, I anxiously wait for every new video upload 😂❤
This was one of the best Bat stories Ive ever read and had amazing art in the initial story where batgirl showed up. The character development qnd stakes for every character including minor ones like sarah essen still holds up today. Now i wanna reread it!
I like the story.
It made me love huntress more as a character.
God bless you Salazar !!!!!
I'm almost finished collecting all of Knightfall, but I doubt I'll collect all of no-man's-land just because of the sheer scope
Amazing video pal! please never stop this is amazing. I hope you make a full series that covers the whole run of the caped crusader. more power to you
I read comics before, but NML and the Scott Beatty Ultimate Guide made me a regular comics reader. Those days in the late 90’s early 2000’s with Greg Rucka, Ed Brubaker, Devin Grayson, Gail Simone, Darwyn Cooke, Ty Templeton were a great era for Batfans.
Huntress is a character I deeply miss in today's comics
I’m actually really interested in reading this now
this is by far the best story arc in batman
Would you say that story is less digestible/more intimidating than Knightfall? I find it intensely moving, but the death of Sarah still angers me today, and makes it feel like an unnecessarily tragic ending. I do love that Rucka did a lot in his New Gotham year of comics following to show the fallout.
I also think that the Greg Rucka novelization of the story is a good summary, though like the Knightfall BBC radio drama, it is not in print.
Sarah's death feels like a classic case of fridging. It's not about her life ending, it's about how tragic that makes things for her male counterpart.
@@jor4114 I disagree - she died a hero, saving the babies. I'm still mad.
@@millernumber1 yeah, a hero... to me she died a meme and a warning as to what I hate about Rucka's writing...
@@saidi7975 Hmm. A meme? I do think Rucka (like Snyder) uses Joker as his embodiment of evil rather than thinking about Joker as an evil clown.
This is my favorite Batman story.
I think Greg Rucka’s novelization is the best way to consume no man’s land. It stands alone as a self-contained story that isn’t bogged down by the tangled continuity of the larger DCU. It cuts out all the filler and dives right into the meat and potatoes of the main story.
I've waited for this, for a long time... and I'm already hooked
Even though this arc and The Dark Knight Rises are not seen as Batman’s finest outings, I like how the former inspired the latter. It’s cool to see directors work with material that isn’t just The Dark Knight Returns or The Long Halloween. Nolan’s third film went from Dark Knight Returns to Knightfall to No Man’s Land.
Although, I do enjoy different interpretations of the same story. The Dark Knight and The Batman were both going off the Long Halloween, and each presented the story in a very unique way.
I read No Man's land as a anthology collection in the library. I LOVED it. it just needs to be binged, instead of read a little at a time.
Exactly how i read!! I loved very much, it made me a bat family fan
This comic is insanely influential (see Project Superpowers: Fractured States) and awfully under rated!.
top 3 batman stories for me
What a wonderful video! Congratulations
Mo Man's Land was when I first started reading Batman comics. It just happened that was when I started collecting comics. I hadn't read Cataclysm or Aftershocks, so I was *very* confused about what was going on.
Makes perfect sense actually. 25:05. Bruce is totally burned out. The GCPD, Leslie, the citizens, don't stretch themselves thin as much as Bruce does. Like he doesn't have a good "work/life balance". Even the Bat family is the total opposite. They pursue their lives, interests, hobbies, extracurricular activities outside of work and actually take life seriously. Bruce pushes himself so much further than anyone else with so much focus on his mission that it has become the only life he really knows so he's mostly cut off from the real world.
It's more like Bruce Wayne is the costume! lol But the point is he burned himself out. He takes so much of the responsibility of protecting Gotham all on himself. This being the worst enemy he's ever faced and having no answers it makes sense he'd be the one to break down.
Actually, Huntress DIDN’T kill Pettit! The Joker did (Although I’m not sure HOW!). She probably would have , but she didn’t .
Which is covered in the video...
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing an animated movie adaption of No Man's Land. It may need to be a multi-parter, obviously. but I'd still watch it.
Still can't believe you condensed this to a 40 minute video and still totally engrossing.
Everytime I watch one of these or read a Batman comic I hear the voice of Kevin Conroy in my head
Wow! Great video. Lots of fun and highly informative.
Excellent video! ...with an excellent title. No Man's Land was not a terrible idea, but it went on and on and on. And after several months, going ridiculously slow, the writer suddenly got in a dreadful hurry to wrap it all up. The Joker seemed like an afterthought, he appeared to be added to the story solely to increase the speed. The tragedies he caused, were nothing but fridging.
True . This to me IS where DC started fucking up the clown.
This is an arc I've wanted to read for a long time. I need to get around to it. Awesome video as always!
Miki! Thank you so much :)
No Man's Land is an excellent crossover and a very iconic Batmam history that i adore; however i admit that it has a low of faults specially in the pacing.
By the way; i instantly recognized the soundtrack from Darksiders 2 in the video.
My man!
Batman not calling in the Justice League for help is ridiculous.
Man I was waiting for this one for a long time
I think “no man’s land” story arc arguably most unique & very interesting storyline ,
I can't believe it never slipped through my mind that Arkham City and Knight are a direct inspiration of this comic storyline
great video and summary! the only thing I'd disagree is not killing Joker. He's the character that has caused so much pain and death, his antics have had so much repercussions that it doesn't make sense that he's allowed to live.
love your work
I understand how it makes him look bad, but I also think it's completely understandable that Batman would eventually hit his limit and collapse with all the shit he went through on the regular. It's just the straw that broke the camel's back.
I like this event. It shows the true limitations of heroes and good people.
It's weird how well the Assassin's Creed Revelations music gels as the background to an explanation of No Man's Land
NML finale also saw a costume change for Batman. He departed from the all dark look he adapted from Knight End to a more bright look with the yellow oval gone from the symbol and a noticable trunks.
He wore that costume all th way until the Grand Morrison era and later the New 52.
us government went full league of shadows on gotham and blew up all bridges but they won't sentence joker to electric chair
Hello sorry
Im late to the comment section
I haven’t had time to watch full video.
Anyway now for my very „analytical“ review of your review/overview/analysis or whatever of No Mans land.
Well umm how do I say it,
ITS THE BEST BATMAN TH-cam VIDEO I’ve ever seen !
Like you know what I said on your last video and how it left me speechless, now im wordless man XD. It feels pointless writing comments sometimes when you don’t have a problem with a video,
I just wanna say Sal keep it going man!
Ps Nice that you mentioned Tally man, he’s underrated in my opinion (but I think I mention my opinion on him before).
Take care of yourself dude and all the other people that read this wayy to long comment :)
No Man's Land Was my jumping off point into regularly following Batman comics; they couldn't sustain my interest after it ended, though, in part because they tried integrating Batman too much in the greater DC Universe. No Man's Land was a world.
To be fair, if I’m a member of congress im not giving Gotham any money either
The audio drama is awesome
I realized how much research has gone into this story when in 2004 Katrina has there was a lot of similarities to No Mans Land... it was like NML was prophetic. It was eerie.
Huh, this story almost certainly helped inspire large parts of Worm, neat