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Guillermo Del Toro's HOBBIT: What It would have looked like
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2022
- I wish I could talk to Del toro and really break down exactly what happened and what his version of the hobbit would have looked like. there is limited info online but here it is.
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Thank you for not putting the blame on Jackson. He worked his ass off for this trilogy and considering the immense time constraints and pressure he was under, it's honestly a miracle that the films are as watchable as they are.
Right. He gets crapped on way too much and it’s not his fault at all. The dude had no time and was ill and exhausted for most of the shoot. It’s on WB 100%.
It for sure wasn't all his fault but he absolutely sh@t the bed. There is no question he holds blame. He should have told MGM to F off for a year and give them the time they needed
@@jphish8724
He didn’t have a choice. They were going to make the movie with or without him. If he didn’t step in, then they would have just gotten someone inexperienced and easy to control to direct and we wouldn’t have gotten t even the good bits of the trilogy
@@cheezyfilmsproductions1842 I can't believe that they wouldn't have listened to him, after his success, and even if they didn't I feel like he should have taken a stand and said, I will not direct this piece of trash film
@@jphish8724 its not a piece of trash though it's just not comparable to the greatest trilogy ever made
I would have loved to see what Del Toro had planned. It’s a true shame there was so much studio interference.
Because his Mexican Hollywood is control by the Illuminati homosexuals abominations
It is WB....what do u expect
Agree
I don't like the visual style of Guillermo Del Toro, it looks good for horror, but it's too ugly for fantasy. I wish Peter Jackson had the time to prepare better.
@@scratchy996 the hobbit trilogy was a mistake those were the worst f****** movies I seen
My first choice would have been Peter Jackson with years of prep.
My second choice would have been Del Toro's plan
What we got was neither of those.
Agreed, I would have definitely prefer Jackson’s Hobbits movies (the original 2 movies). If he had the good pre time 12 or 24 months like the LoTR instead of 3 months. And also not having the studio meddling in his movies 24/7 while shooting like the hobbit trilogy. Man it seems like one of worse movie production I ever heard of. Plus I just prefer Jackson view on middle earth.
But I think I would have definitely enjoyed De Toro’s movie interpretation but just not as much as Jackson’s.
Like I'm saying The Hobbit movies should've been released around 2015/16. They rushed the hell out of the scripts for those movies. Jackson should've been given more time with those movies.
I agree fully. The greedy money bastards ruined it for us once again
@@amarug From studio point of view it is kinda understandable. They were going under fast and needed some money any way they could, and they needed it fast. It's just sad that it was on the expense of The Hobbit.
Del Toro saying that you HAVE to have things planned and that you can't wing it, followed by the cut of Jackson saying that he was just winging it and made it up on the spot really put the trilogy into perspective. It really feels like a lot of it was made up on the day
Which isn't a fault of Jackson. Had he been allowed to hit pause and do the proper prep that he did on LoTR, and all his films, the studio would've shut him down, and if I recall financials of the studio were tedious at best back then so a production shutdown may have bankrupt them.
Jackson was the only hope for a replacement director to pull it off. It sucks what we ended up with since it could have been truly great like LoTR.
@@andrewsbbq also to add to your point, an inordinate amount of money was spent on pre production on Del Toros version, that needed to be recouped, and the movie wasn't even green lit yet.
@@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast yea I think given the circumstances Jackson pulled a rabbit out of his ass.. and I bet it wasn't really his call to go from 2 movies to 3. Studio needed the cash from a third movie
Now Jackson is one of the richest directors behind Speilberg and big money Lucas.
@@andrewsbbq
_It is only at the end of a shoot that you finally get the chance to sit down and have a look at the film you have made. Recently Fran, Phil and I did just this when we watched for the first time an early cut of the first movie - and a large chunk of the second. We were really pleased with the way the story was coming together, in particular, the strength of the characters and the cast who have brought them to life. All of which gave rise to a simple question: do we take this chance to tell more of the tale? And the answer from our perspective as the filmmakers, and as fans, was an unreserved ‘yes.'_
_We know how much of the story of Bilbo Baggins, the Wizard Gandalf, the Dwarves of Erebor, the rise of the Necromancer, and the Battle of Dol Guldur will remain untold if we do not take this chance. The richness of the story of The Hobbit, as well as some of the related material in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, allows us to tell the full story of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins and the part he played in the sometimes dangerous, but at all times exciting, history of Middle-earth._
_So, without further ado and on behalf of New Line Cinema, Warner Bros. Pictures, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Wingnut Films, and the entire cast and crew of "The Hobbit" films, I'd like to announce that two films will become three._
_It has been an unexpected journey indeed, and in the words of Professor Tolkien himself, "a tale that grew in the telling."_
_Cheers,_
_Peter J_
@@ULYSSES-31 that’s called marketing. And it’s why studios spend as much on marketing as the entire movie production budget. Wtf was he supposed to say? “Hey I don’t like the movie because the studio wouldn’t give me prep time and now for the sake of profits they are forcing the second movie be split into a third”. What!?
My understanding was that essentially New Line or MGM were basically dicking Del Toro around and were holding off on production starting because they wanted Jackson all along. The second Del Toro left, all of a sudden a bunch of things holding up production disappeared and the movies got rolling into gear again. They wanted LotR 2, and Del Toro was talking about skipping the big ending fight scenes. There was a lot of pressure on Jackson to include things from the first trilogy, something that was kind of a non starter with Del Toro.
Thanks for not crapping on Jackson like some many people because they didn’t know how bad the production was on those films. Here is some rumors that have been around the trilogy films. This is what I remember but these are mostly rumors so some things can be off or wrong
1: It was Guillermo del Toro project first. Post to be 1 movie that was very whimsical fantasy and sometime the studio ask for it to be 2 movies
2: Guillermo decided to “leave” 3 months before the movie started shooting and there’s a lot of speculation on why he left. But I will say that he most likely was fired
3: Jackson came on as director because he felt obligated to because of being the director of LoTR and how much he loved the Hobbit
4: Jackson was only allowed 3 months of preproduction over someone else’s project which is incredible short time (Fellowship was either 12-24 months can’t remember which one it was)
5: During those 3 months the studio forced Jackson and team to make it 3 movies. Which they absolutely disagreed with and didn’t want to do it but they had no choice. So him and the writing team has to bloat the crap the story in 3 months.
4: Lilly James character, Tauriel, was not post to have any romance at all. The actor came on because they gave their word that her character won’t. (She was done with romance after working on Lost and especially triangle romances) Somewhere in the production the studio force them to change her character and force the stupid romance triangle in it and everyone one was pissed. And they had to reshoot almost all her scenes.
5: Though Jackson did want to use more CGI, some speculate that he used more was because they were cut on time because they were barely given time to do more shoot in New Zealand and build sets. But either way the CGI director got cancer during development and couldn’t work as much and the studio gave the barely any time finish everything. (That’s why lots of it was janky looking)
6: Because of the studio rushing and changing things on Jackson and team. Jackson barely slept, lost a lot of weight due to the stress, that he had Andy Serkis to film for him some days because it was too much for Jackson.
I know there’s more but most of the problems were not because of Jackson and team. I think either Guillermo original 1 or 2 movies would have be good or Jackson if he actually had time and the studio stop messing with them, that they could have been beloved movies. It was just sad, and Jackson felt so guilty on making those movie that he wished he never made them. I feel like he did the best he could given the horrible circumstance he was under. Because the casting, costume, art director were perfection and some of the scenes were magical and gave us a glimpse of what Jackson could have done for the whole movie. It breaks my heart.
I honestly imagine Del Toro's vision to be something like an interesting homage to the 80's dark fantasy flicks with the benefit of CGI being thrown into the mix to help enrich the experience. Looking at Pans Labrynth, Hellboy, The toothfairy movie (forgot it's name) and his recent iteration of Pinocchio, I honestly think Del Toro would've done something similar like those with The Hobbit....and it would've been epic. If only the studio execs weren't so goddamn greedy and impatient.
It sounds cool as an experiment, but the Hobbit really isn't a dark story. It's cheerful, funny, and good battles evil. But I don't see it as a dark fantasy. Each to his/her own though.
But The Hobbit isn't a dark fantasy. This is very different from Hellboy. And I am pretty 100% sure Tolkien really hated dark fantasies. The Hobbit is for kids and family to enjoy
Both of you missed the point of del Toro's vision, he wanted to make it more fairytale-like. The tone of the Jackson trilogy was completely off
I think audiences today would totally welcome Guillermo Del Toro's version to be finally realized with absolute autonomy from Jackson's series.
Since Jackson's aesthetic franchise continuity already exist now, Del Toro could really forge his own interpretation completely without being at all beholden to dogmatically servicing Jackson's established world building and signature tropes such as casting, designs and music.
Might be a bargin since so much prep has already been done and payed for.
Likewise, they certainly have their weaknesses, but I really enjoy the animated versions of The Hobbit and Return of the King. It's completely possible for different interpretations of Middle Earth to exist and bring focus to different aspects of the source material.
But why LotR ? Let Del Toro get another fantasy franchise. I think his style would work best for something like Warhammer 40K. Or a Spawn movie. The dude is too perverted for a family friendly franchise, his style fits more with horror movies. Heck, a HR Giger tribute Del Toro Aliens movies would be great.
@@scratchy996
Haha, apparently you've not seen Peter Jackson's films prior to LOTR. 😆
I think the casting for the hobbit movies was better than what del toro was thinking
I like Del Toro's cast minus Bilbo and Thorin the others could work
@@hovseph818 nah the casting was prefect bilbo was better than frodo in my opinion plus he had no idea what he was doing the hobbit is underated by a lot of content creators I feel like and thats just not fair I dont see why people hated the movies oh wait becuase of bad cgi that wasnt that bad in the long run I would rather see a young dwarf prince that was a badass through out the films then an old grumpy dwarf. the actor of balin was fantastic he was caring and kind and even put thorin in his place at times the ohters were all just as memroble example they all fit there roles perfectly
@@phantomloard0138 I think people don't like these movies mostly because they expected another LOTR and don't like the style. That's ironic, because the book is very different from LOTR as well.
@@hovseph818 I believe Martin Freeman was Del Toros choice all along and Freeman confirmed they had meetings
@@wilhufftarkin8543no i think they dont like them because they can't find a balanced tone, they're stuffed to the gills with filler garbage, cheap looking cgi everywhere, digital de-aging on multiple characters (when has a good movie ever had that?) and should have been one or two movies at most.
Even the cartoon was more coherent.
I think most of this sounds better than what we got but I am glad that we ended up with a more classic dragon look for Smaug,
I believe there are some fan edits of the Hobbit that cuts out all the fat from the film and focuses more on Bilbo, I've watched one of them and it felt much less taxing than the original
The biggest problem with The Hobbit is the choice to make it into three parts. End of the day, even if the situation was the same, the choice to make three films out of one short book led to "filler" and spreading money around for scenes that nobody wanted or needed to see. It's like a guy getting a speaking gig at a graduation or something and then realizing that he mistakenly thought he had the time to write it but it was actually supposed to be delivered that day. Less is more. Don't start out by setting a goal for an extra long speech. That would be the opposite of common sense. Basically, the studio "needed money from three films", but they were probably looking at it wrong. The studio needed to make a big splash with one film and an established fandom that would watch it three times each in theaters. Cut the budget, Jackson knew how to film with little money, and go from there.
Tolkien's cut
I honestly think the Hobbit movies would receive such a better reception if they re-released it into one book, in the mould of the fan-edits. It would be tricky, but I feel they could easily cut it down.
@@user-nv2wt4hi8t are you AI ? or just stupid ? there is a book, it's called THE HOBBIT! ffs o.0
@@heydj6857 I'm sorry? I don't appreciate that bizarrely aggressive attitude due to one slip when I wrote 'book' and meant 'film'. In future, provide the benefit of the doubt and hope or assume that I know what I'm talking about, which I do, and was speaking on the films (particularly evident given that I started with 'I think the films') and not the one, single, only book that was published almost 100 years ago. You come across poorly read when you act like you did.
Im happy with Jackson's Hobbit. I hold that trilogy near my heart because I went to see all three with some dear friends. Only thing I did not like was the over usage of CGI. a real shame. Not interested in Del Toro's Hobbit actually, I like his style, but not for Tolkien's stuff.
I would have left Legolas in, though. After all, Lorewise, it would have been more unusual for him not to be in the hobbit, Being the son of Thanduril.
I agree but I would have reduced his role or just a cameo character. If I remember correctly, even Tolkien said that if he rewrote the hobbit he would have had more ties to the LoTR. And given that he would have definitely added Legolas in the hobbit even if was cameo or mentioning his character in passing.
The Hobbit still wasn't as bad as "The Rings of Power"
Rings of Power was better than the Hobbit. Way better.
Shit is Shit. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one shit and another… I’d rather not choose at all.
ROP is a catastrophe. After watching a few episodes I watched the Hobbit trilogy and it was a breath of fresh air
@@doomsdaybooty1072 A "catastrophe", LOL. Rings of Power haters are so melodramatic. The Hobbit movies were way, way, WAY worse.
@bonchbonch nah. At least the Hobbit had likeable characters. The only likeable characters with relatable motivations in rop were the bad guys
In this parallel universe in which Del Toro makes these 2 movies, there's probably a lot of people thinking Peter Jackson would have done a better job with 3 movies solely based on how great LOTR turned out.
We, fans, are never happy.
I disagree. People are pretty much universally happy about the LoTR movies. That shows that fans will be happy if 1) they are listened to and not treated like cash cows, and 2) the source material is treated with respect.
@@jogennotsuki Exactly. PJ did that with LOTR but didn't with the Hobbit. There are a lot of reasons for that not happening, but in this parallel universe, people would think that a PJ Hobbit would be as good as PJ LOTR.
@@jogennotsuki I preferred Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" over his "Lord of the Rings". I preferred Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings" over Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings". So, no, I don't think everyone is universally happy with Peter Jackson's LoTR's movies.
Peter Jackson's LoTR's are OK and they are fun. But out of the two, I preferred "The Hobbit".
@@gaebren9021 I encourage you to look up two things: The RottenTomatoes scores of Jackson's films, and the definition of the phrase "pretty much".
@@jogennotsuki Rotten Tomatoes is only an opinion based scoring of people who participate. It is indicative of nothing.
Id have happily parted with my money and watched both versions but i know if we got Guillermo's version we'd be here wondering what Peter's version would be like. 👑💍👑
I feel like if Del Toro made it, people would complain, dislike it and say that Peter Jackson should’ve directed it.
Recast The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
I honestly love the way the movie turned out. Sure it's not a perfect movie, most movies we love aren't perfect. Being familiar with Del Toro's work I feel he put the artistic vision ahead of the overall story (take Pacific Rim as an example, there is a story there but it's mainly basic in comparison to the visuals and the style he put into it). Seeing the concept art such as Smaug makes me glad that Peter Jackson was the one to direct the trilogy because Toro's vision of Smaug looks like it's suppose to rake in Skyrim fans. I'm just glad that Peter Jackson got to make the films especially considering how he's able to capture the true beauty of Middle Earth and present to us the beings that lives in it, hobbits, humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, etc. and still have a strong focus of the story and how each character changes over the course of the story.
Couldnt agree more. Even if I like Del Toro's style... Jackson REALLY loves Middle Earth and you can see that.
Thank you. The way people carry on about the Hobbit is ridiculous. As you said, it's not perfect, but it's very far from the train wreck people who jump on board the Hobbit hate wagon make it out to be.
@@nami141it's not a train wreck, it's just not as good as a movie and unfortunately wastes so much potential
While I definitely would have liked to have seen a Del Toro take on The Hobbit, I’m glad we didn’t get to see his version of Smaug, since that version of Smaug is my favorite movie villain, if not my favorite movie character of all time, and I wouldn’t wanna see him any other way.
Del Toro’s Pacific Rim approach to the character most likely wouldn’t have had the humanity that Jackson’s Smaug has: all his relatable little mannerisms, such as the eyes glowing and the horns moving as an indication of his emotions, as well as the way he delivers his lines might not have been there if Del Toro had his way with Smaug.
I know his lines and the exact way they’re delivered as if they’re lyrics from my favorite song - they’re engraved into my memory.
All of these things are exactly why I love this depiction of Smaug so much.
Smaug is A LOT better in books, and Del Toro would probably made whole scenario and monologe from Book but just different design.
That’s not gonna change my opinion on the movie Smaug.
@@TheMarionick it wont of course, cause thats the only version of Smaug you know
@@chrisandreas3142 Yeah but even if I knew the written version, I doubt it would me my preferred version since the aspects that make me like movie Smaug so much cannot be written.
@@TheMarionick how old are you?
I am glad we did not have Del Toro’s casting. I would never have watched it if Ron Perlman was involved. Also the casting of Lee Pace as Thranduil in the Hobbit was excellent. I wish we had seen Thranduil in the earlier section of the LOTR movie (1st movie) leading up to the initial fight with Sauron.
What's wrong with Ron Perlman?
Agreed, Thranduil casting was absolutely perfection and it’s a shame they cut out a lot of his scenes because it definitely fleshed out his character and motivation. He’s definitely exudes a powerful king Elf should be and he’s so dang regal that it’s impossible not to watch his character when he’s on scene. A way better depiction of a king elf then what we got of Gil-galad from RoP. That was a horrible mess. 😒
To be truth I think the whole cast was perfect or near perfect to me at least.
@@lunagrace2872 I like watching the cut scenes of Thranduil on you tube. I didn’t watch ROP. I prefer JRR Tolkien the way he built the worlds and wrote about them. It seemed like ROP was deliberately going against what Tolkien had wished and how he had expressed that he wanted his works treated in the future. Peter Jackson did have differences and add-ins but it seemed like he was working to incorporate as much of Tolkien and his spirit as possible. I don’t believe Christopher Lee would have been a part of the series if it had deliberately messed over Tolkien.
Recast Eragon.
Personally I don't think Del Toro's cinematic style suits Middle-earth, and it was for the better that he left.
The shame is that we didn't get a Hobbit version by Peter Jackson with pre production. Their experiences from LOTR is the reason why the movies turned out after all relatively good in the end. I recommend everyone to watch the (30 hours) behind the scenes appendices. It shows how extremely hard working everyone on the movies was, from Weta Workshop to Peter Jackson to the costume department, even though they were under a huge time constraint.
I loved the Hobbit trilogy, I liked most of the characters and the tone of the movies was certainly different from LOTR but I enjoyed it, maybe it was because I was not a fan of lord of the rings but after seeing the Hobbit I'm definitely more interested in this fantastic universe and I'm going to buy the books for sure
Yes, same here. I preferred Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" to his "Lord of the Rings". I really like how he fleshed out the Dwarves. Gave them individual characters.
I was (and still am) a massive LOTR fan, and I still enjoyed The Hobbit trilogy. I simply cannot understand the hate...
i read the books therefore i hate the hobbit with a passion that is hard to explain lol.
i loved the lotr movies tho, even if they changed the story so much it barely is worth the name lord of the rings.
There are some great fan edits out there that reveal the hidden gem under the fluff.
Two movies and more of the actual book and focus on Bilbo would've been welcome. Really intrigued by the alternate casting, especially J. Macavoy as Bilbo. Wouldn't have made sense with Gandalf claiming he hasn't aged a day, but he does bear a passing resemblance to Elijah Wood.
Del Toro didn’t “just leave”, the whole production seemed like it was going to fall apart at the time (one of the companies involved was about to go under) and the reason Jackson had to begin filming right away was because the financial situation stabilized but they all wanted to get started while they could.
He was fired.
@@HorySmokes He had scheduling conflicts... he was not fired. It's incredible how some people just spit out lies
@@Darkar251 The whole thing about him having scheduling conflicts is just a nice way of saying, he was fired, which he was.
my understanding is that the project was frozen at the time with no indication of that changing and del toro had to find other work
he was heartbroken for having to leave it behind, and the studio might have caused the whole thing somewhat deliberately (del toro doesn't tend to compromise his creative vision to appease execs), but i don't think he was fired explicitly
Interesting speculation! I do like the idea of the cost of war being more thematically relevant. A Pan’s Labyrinth type of Hobbit movie sounds amazing. I did enjoy some things from the trilogy we got, but it felt kind of by-the-numbers.
This is the saddest "what if" of movie history.
Not only did we miss out on what would have been--in all likelihood--a great adaptation, but the Hobbit movies we actually got left such a bad taste in everyone's month (including its director) Jackson still hasn't directed a feature film since. At least we're getting some decent documentaries out of him.
This is exactly what I heard - They wouldn't green light past preproduction with Guillermo. He lived there for two years working and waiting for approval. Eventual he had to do something, making films is his passion. He left it and Jackson reluctantly took over which got the green light. Peter didn't want to make Guillermo's version so he threw all his stuff out and started over. A lot of physical SFX makeup wasn't coming out right so they moved toward full CG characters. Then the studio wanted to make it three films instead of two and Jackson agreed again without knowing how to flesh out that third one. They was a lot of times of making up scenes and seeing what worked.
I don't really see the problem with having the story in 3 films, while the book isn't big, it does cover quite a lot of plot.
It's more an issue of what the film focuses on. The whole elf dwarf romance is a bit silly, as Legolas & Gimli was meant to be the most progressive relationship.
Everything with Bard & Alfred is just pointless.
I would've much rather had more screentime devoted to parts from the book, some of which were in the extended cuts. And some character exploration for more of the dwarves.
Agree. The trilogy format could have worked out, if they would have fleshed out the Fall of Dol Guldur part more for example. But this would have required to have actual time to think things through, and not beeing on a thight schedule...
There is just no material for 8 hours which would look good on the screen, and terrible overstretching what we got is a great sign of it
The Hobbit is a 3 to 4-hour long read for a competent reader. The plot would fit in one movie but could be stretched out over two. Three movies was certainly too much if you consider how much filler had to be added.
I was very disappointed when Guillermo Del Toro left the Hobbit. He does such amazing work with visuals and practical makeup effects and I think his version of the Hobbit would have been phenomenal. Del Toro has a tendency to commit to too many projects and some get sacrificed for others and that was I think at least partially the case with the Hobbit. I would love to see his vision for HP Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness, but we will sadly, most likely never see that either.
I enjoyed the hobbit when it came out and I still do. Sure there’s some stuff that’s dumb but I was able to enjoy it for what it was
Recast Hellboy.
I don't are care what anyone says, I love the first Hobbit movie very much. And as much as I like some of Del Toros works, let's be honest here, he doesn't always deliver. So I'm not sure his take on the Hobbit would have worked.
I'm glad and happy with PJ made the hobbit.
Massive respect for PJ stepping up and not leaving people in the water. It's clear that GDT needs everything going right or he's out, like Kubrick or Tarantino, but Jackson is amazing under pressure, might even enjoy the feeling of it, and he can make diamonds if its possible. Honestly, if the movie was written better, more faithful, and less dependent on CGI, we'd be singing its praises, cuz the stuff outside of it was great
Regardless I think GDT would've delivered, as long as the writing held up
The studio demanded a Hobbit trilogy. If Del Toro directed it, he would have had to do 3 movies.
Hobbit was my childhood. And I cried after The Battle of Five Armies. Thorin was my favourite character. Hobbit 3's ending was a heartbreak for me.
I still really love Jackson’s films, particularly the deviations from the book
For me all the deviations from the book were the worst bits
Guillermo del Toro most certainly did not just leave. There are videos of Del Toro explaining in detail how frustrating the cooperation was with the studio and how he was more or less driven to leave.
The hobbit was never going to be on the same level as the lord of the rings. I think the adding of characters was really needed to try and keep it as close to the lord of the rings as they could. Remember the hobbit is a single book compared to the 3 lord of the rings books. I think Jackson did a brilliant job of the hobbit and deserves more praise.
Del Toro's aesthetic would've been a disaster for The Hobbit.
Call me what you will, but I enjoyed the Hobbit Trilogy, when I was younger a lot more so! Nowadays I do see… Many parts quite disdainful but, by god it’s way better than Rings of Power. Nevertheless, I still would’ve loved to see what Del Toro would have done! I respect Del Toro, he has a unique mind, and the Hobbit wasn’t supposed to be this Grand War and stuff, it was a simple adventure, and with that and Toro’s Style that would’ve indeed made for an entertaining experience!
Of course Peter did his best, he had years to plan the LOTR Trilogy, while he had a year or two to make the Hobbit, and what sprouted forth was a pretty okay experience to me! At least the Extended Version! Part 1 is the best of the Hobbit Trilogy with little deviations aside from some of the Rivendell stuff I think! It’s that flipping love triangle and Legolas where things started dipping! 😂
I still prefer the Jackson version. My main objection is the script which took way to many freedoms and went close to ridiculousness in some points, although I cant say if there was studio interference or not. With a better and more down to earth writing, without crappy scenes like Legolas jumping on falling stones and unecessary love stories, this trilogy would ve been many times better.
Pretty sure Del Toro didn’t “just leave” there was tons of financial and scheduling issues with the studio that forced his hand
We all would love to see his vision on screen, his interpretation of The Hobbit, and the idea of showing the horrors of war, he would have nailed it as you can already see in his movies. But I think he fell short and wanted more creative freedom to really explore and create a character driven film, but then they wouldn't be able to show much of Middle earth. I didn't like the idea of Bilbo being knocked down during the war and then somebody would detail him on it, that is a story inside a story and wouldn't have resulted in character development. Also, dividing films into three parts wasn't Peter Jackson's idea, it was Warner Bros that wanted to milk it out. Had PJ was involved from the beginning as director then it would have been much better, more close towards LOTR trilogy. Still, I don't dislike them, it still feels like a dive in Middle Earth.
and then there is me! i absolutely love the hobbit trilogy :D
Sometime I think you should tackle your own fan casting of a live-action version of the TV series Gargoyles as there's been Rumours for quite a while about Disney making a live action film based on Gargoyles
The most important line here, for me, is something like "Del Toro wanted something more like a children's fairytale." I felt that all along, that the whole mood should have been lightened up for children. The worst part of all about the movie trilogy, was caving to Hollywood's board rooms and inventing storylines. Save us from such awful thinktanks.
I actually preferred Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" to his "Lord of the Rings".
Though you are right about the Battle scenes. I get the feeling that Battle scenes are more of a Peter Jackson thing. Because he really focused on this in both "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings". He likes battle scenes more as spectacle than commentary. He likes action.
Like he couldn't just do the barrels riding out of the Elvin kings halls as Tolkien wrote it in the book. It had to be an action scene.
But, yeah, I really liked how Peter Jackson caught the characters in "The Hobbit" more so than "Lord of the Rings". I really liked how he represented the Dwarves. That was really well done. And the scene of the attack on Lake town was really well done too.
Personal preference. I liked "The Hobbit" as movies more than "Lord of the Rings".
Both the Hobbit and LOTR was masterpieces and, since Jackson did LOTR, I wouldn't want to see any one else do the Hobbit, to be honest. 🙂
I love the LOTR trilogy, in-fact I ground up my Blu-ray collection into little plastic shards and than stuffed them up my ass, feels so good.
The Hobbit is not a masterpiece, it's pretty bad, unfortunately. There are good moments, but we'll, it's 8+ hours of screen time
@@gi1dor I love it. Have nothing bad to say about it. 🙃
The hobbit movies are great, I can't wait for fanboys to realise it, the scientific term for that hate is called "prequel geek effect "
The Hobbit films felt thin, like butter spread over too much bread.
Honestly, it always folded me how Azog was brought in for NO REASON when he is mentioned once in the book, to usurp Bolg's position as leader of the Goblin army and where they had an AMAZING practical design for Bolg with 7'0, OG Mountain Conan Stevens playing him, only to replace him with awful, awful CGI to match Azog's dreadful CGI. THEN Legolas kills Bolg, not Beorn AND Beorn doesn't turn the tide and retrieve Thorin's body but the Eagles alone do, because they couldn't even trust the audience with anything other than a way more heavy handed Return of the King fan service (it's in the book, but it's played to the max in the movie).
“It was worse than bad-it was half-good!”
-George Bernard Shaw
I could be wrong, but I think Del Toro was pressured into leaving the project by the studio higher ups! They probably wanted another "Lord of the Rings type" trilogy, something that Del Toro wasn't going to do.
And Peter Jackson; who reportedly didn't want to direct The Hobbit, had to role up his sleeves and helm the project, otherwise the studios would probably have taken the project away from him and hire another filmmaker.
I believe the reason Peter Jackson had to "wing it" was because, all of the pre-production that was made with Del Toro was scrapped. And Peter Jackson having to keep to schedule otherwise the studios would pull the pin, had to begin production almost straight away.
Hobbit trilogy isn't even a bit as bad as people say. "I like character driven stories..." As if Hbbit trilogy wasn't characters driven, as if the whole third movie wasn't about how pointless is war...
Rings of Power makes Hobbit even better for me.
I honestly still very much enjoyed it.
Del Toro to me such a unique and interesting guy who does story in the a wonderful way that he created. I was so devastated if I could’ve seen them as a kid if I see them that would scare me and I would never watch them ever again, but Needless to say Jackson did a good job but my farm it was a trouble production that he and his crew has to deal with them.
i remember hearing that the studio wanted Jackson to come back, and they kept dragging their feet until GDT basically gave up.
The Hobbit movies are a brilliant diamond compared to the hot garbage Rings of Power or most other things the entertainment industry is putting out nowadays.
0:13 And that's the main issue with most Jackson-LOTR fans, they compare it to LOTR to begin with when both stories are drastically different. The Hobbit was always a more whimsical, lighthearted tale compared to LOTR and the book actually has more ludicrous events in it such as Beorn's animal servants among other examples.
That would be a conversation I would love to hear
The Rankin Bass cartoon still had the best music and vocals...
The Tim Burton’s Cinematic Universe (because that Marvel done that with The MCU that there’s now more possibility things are now open for New Cinematic Universe)
Jack Skellington (The Nightmare Before Christmas)
Wednesday (The Adam Family)
Beetlejuice
Batman (I mean Tim Burton’s Batman is technically not The Batman from DC, I mean this one probably doesn’t know who Superman is or any Justice League member)
The Headless Horseman (he would be the villain because why not)
Also I can see Jack Skellington would be kinda like a Teacher/Father-like to Wednesday (kinda like Tim Burton’s version of Wolverine and X-23 from Logan but with a very tall Skeleton and a Girl who look like she been born in a Graveyard)
Del Toro's version would've been something i would've loved to have seen.
Not sure on his design for Smaug.
I feel like the Hobbit movies get too much hate. We’re they as good as LOTR. Absolutely not. There is a clear difference in quality. But no other fantasy movies have come close to either trilogy. I would have loved to see what Del Toro had in store . I am a huge fan of his work. But the Hobbit movies are and easy binge watch right along with the LOTR trilogy IMO.
P.J was a Billionaire by the time the Hobbit came round, says it all.
I didn't know that PJ had time constraints! makes so much sense.
IMO Guillermo's vision for middle-earth deserves a reboot of the whole LotR trilogy rather than the Hobbit as an prequle to PJ's middle-earth. And btw I think Henry Cavill will be a perfect cast for Aragorn if LotR been rebooted this era.
Although it would have been interesting I think the Del Toro version would have been inferior to the Peter Jackson version we got.
The Hobbit trilogy is so unfairly judged because it's compared to arguably the greatest trilogy of all time. There's some real moment's of quality in the Hobbit movies
In answer to your final questions--yes. To them all. They would have been different films, and almost certain much better ones, and would have looked different from LOTR which I think would have been better. Stop trying to re-capture lightning in a bottle.
I mean it’s no wonder the hobbit trilogy became the mess that it was. Del Toro was forced out and Jackson was forced to step in and save it. It was obvious that the studios had more control than Jackson and forced him to stretch the story out. But hey at least we have fanedits of the movie to cut out all the unnecessary things.
2:53 thats not smaug, its otachi from pacific rim, its even written in the corner
4:16 Exactly as dscribed:
I would HIGHLY recomend m4's book edit. It turns lead into mithril.
I want you to recast 101 Dalmatians and Sleeping Beauty next
Uh. After Cruella and Maleficent, God no.
@@angusng816 pls. I want them to happen because I love those animated movies
Ummm… excuse me Bryan?
James was NOT the second biggest actor eyed for the role of Bilbo Baggins. It was famously said that Michael Sheen was going to be him.
I hadn't heard about it, but I think he'd be a pretty great fit too.
Why haven't we talked about "The Tolkien Edit" - it's the only way I was able to sit through this absolute nightmare of a creation.
Meh. Sounds like it wouldn't have meshed with the original LOTR trilogy at all. Glad Jackson was the one who made it, love this trilogy.
I think DelToro would have ruined the Hobbit for me. I've watched several of his movies, and his visual style and creature design always lands in a darker and disturbing way.
I Think about this wayy too often:( The world needs Del Toro's version of the Hobbit🙌🏼❤
Del Toro didn't "just leave". They held production for two years after signing him.
From my understanding Guillermo Del Toro left because the funding for the movies wasn’t there at the time, so he didn’t want to wait around since he didn’t know if he’d ever get to make them.
woah, you lost me at "was a dissapointment". I absolutely loved the Hobbit.
Personaly I love Hobbit (at least the second and third movie), yes it isn’t as perfect as the LOTR but some parts or things are even better here in my opinion. And for the love of God never say anything bad about Smaug, he is the best thing in these movies (the voice actor, the design, the personality and the CGI are perfection), yes the concept art for him is interesting and I like the designs but what we got is much better.
Also although I love the book the whole battle of the five armies being skiped is anticlimactic in my opinion, it can work in the book but in the movie it just wouldn’t be good.
Nah, I love del Toro's work and I am in the minority here but I truly loved the Jackson´s trilogy just as they were. And the Smaug design we got is way better than this kaiju-esque design from del Toro's visual development
A hobbithead like me gave Jacksons 5 buckets of popcorn though.
Token despised allegory, creating such in a film would be an insult
I thought the books had allegories about the nature of war and the beauty of nature. Am I wrong?
"Fever dream" is a good way to describe The Hobbit. It even has that haze glaze over it, like Vanilla Sky or something. Rings of Power has that overly exposed, overly saturated look about it. They're both leaning on children and gimmicks rather than good writing. I think the battle part in front of Erebor was complete filler, it wasn't engaging to look at all, just a bunch of non-sense on screen with zero tension and zero gravity to anything.
I like the idea of centering the story around bilbo’s character and narration. hopefully del toro would have left out unnecessary subplots and given a little more time for sequences left out of rankin bass movie. I still think hobbit would make a fine 2hr feature. the darker bits would be too dark and grotesque with del toro for my taste I think, but I can see how many folks would enjoy seeing his vision of the story.
The director has a really cool first name
I think you’re a really cool name❤
I like how we are moving from "the hobbit is shit" to "the hobbit has some good moments", trust me, this trilogy will be reevalued even more in the future. In my opinion It's a solid trilogy, especially the 4k uhd version, a great visual improvement.
I actually love the Hobbit movies for what they are. They arent the book by any means, but they’re fun.
I think if Jackson had had the time to do as much planning and pre-production as he had for LOTR, it would’ve been as good as LOTR.
I also think if del Toro had been able to make it, it would’ve been different, darker, but probably still better than what we did get. Either way, I would want the filmmaker to be able to be in control of the project from the very beginning.
Could you PLEASE somehow try to convince Del Toro to an interview? You‘re very close to something there, and it would be a blessing for the whole fanbase if you went even further with this.
It‘s fine if it doesn‘t end up working out, but please give it a try. 🙏
There is an edited version of the 3 movies compacted into 2 parts, which has removed all the 'non-hobbit novel' stuff removed to make it far more like the book. Can't remember who made it but it is 'out there' somewhere
Recast Jaws.
Ron Pearlman as Thorin. Wow. That would've been so great to watch!
We got sawed-off Aragorn instead.